What About Desire to Pay Bills? Leave That to God? Any Practical Solutions?

[Guest guest]

So if you make the statement not to desire anything other than God,

there is nothing else! What about desire to pay all bills? so you

say don't worry ! but to leave this in God's mighty hands.

 

I like the idea of not looking to others for happiness and I try but

again these are hard lessons.

 

What does Gita say regarding practical ways to sustain this life and

it's necessities, and regarding achieving independence and self-

sufficiency ? Please help this woman to learn her homework of what

is right ?

 

Catherine Andersen

 

 

 

 

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only responses

which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say one

page at the most (500 words or so).

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author(but

not links to other sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

being asked.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

Re Saadhak - Catherine's Query

 

At the outset welcome to the principles of Sanatan Dharma (eternal

religion, beginning less religion). There is nothing in this

univerese for which the explanation / solution is not available in

Geetaji and allied scriptures.

 

First, desire. Desires can be classified into two parts. One -

Needs. Two - Luxuries. Your basic needs are air, water, food, cloths

and shelter - in that order of importance. These things you get

automatically without any efforts at your end ( though when you

become adult - sometimes you think you are doing efforts to earn

that. But when you become wise you know that these donot come by

present deeds- the experience doesnot support the corelation of

present deeds with the quantum or quality therof. You find that all

other creatures in the universe get up hungry in the morning but

sleep with their bellies full. You find many human beings getting

more than you and doing lesser efforts than you. You recall that

when you were child you got everything without doing anything. You

recall that milk in the breasts of your mother came as soon as you

were born. You start seeing old people doing nothing but getting

these needs fulfilled anyway ) and the quantum or the quality

thereof is based on your past Karma (deeds). But it is definitely

the responsibilty of God / Mother Nature to keep you alive as a

human being for the destined number of breaths ( years).

 

Father God / Mother Nature will have to provide you with these

essentials- you have no role there! After all you did not come to

this world out of your choice, you have been dropped here out of

God's will! You did not choose your parents, your gender, your

caste, colour or country ! Nor you shall have any say at the time

of departure. So you don't have to worry for sustenance in the

middle.

 

Anybody who worries therefore about these basic needs - is worrying

illogically, out of ego and " desire for more " . There is nothing

wrong in making efforts to feed yourself and your dependants. In

fact that is your duty as per Geetaji. Wrong is to corelate the

efforts with the results. " To worry " is stupidity.No religion

preaches you to become lazy or do nothing- certainly the Sanatan

Dharma doesnot at all preach that but after making efforts you

should leave the results to the God. You should not desire X or Y

result. You keep making efforts but as your duty only without

keeping results in focus..

 

THE PRACTICAL SOLUTION desired by you -

 

Conclusion? Keep doing your duty towards yourself and towards those

who you consider are depending upon you. Leave results to the God.

At all times " don't worry " ! By worrying bills don't get paid- had

that been the case we all would have worried, worried and worried

and thereby ensured that the bills get paid,paid and paid !

 

That is about first classification of " desires " . Your basic needs.

Geeta permits even the realised soul to continue doing bare minimum

efforts to sustain the body. " To make efforts " is not desiring! To

corelate efforts with results is " desiring " ! Hence your opening

caption " desire to pay bills " should be corrected accordingly.

 

Now about your statement- " to leave this(payment of bills) into the

mighty hands of God " . Where is the need to do that? In the past you

did not leave that in the God's hands-whether the bills remained

unpaid? You have got human body, mind, two hands , sharp intellect,

and capacity to do Karma and make efforts- why you should not make

genuine efforts? It is another matter that irrespective of whether

you leave to God's hands something or not- you are always in his

hands only.

 

Here I must impart another principle to you. Geetaji 18:66. If you

can dare , please leave all your worries including payment of bills

into the hands of God. Surrender with complete and total faith!

There must not be the slightest amount of doubt or worry then in

your mind. Be certain your bills shall not remain unpaid. But the

surrender must be total.No ego. No worry inside. No doubt. No

reliance upon your capacity or power or ability. Simply surrender as

a child surrenders before the Mom. Your needs will be taken care of

automatically,though then you will become unmindful of those needs.

Do that if you can. Else do your duties, make efforts,leave results

to the God and relax. Never Never Worry!

 

Next time regarding the second classification_ luxuries, which in

fact are really " desires " . In the meantime please do write about

the practical difficulties which you feel you may encounter in the

implementation of what is stated above.

 

You are " independent " and " self sufficient " always. You are daughter

of the King of all the Kings. By your very form , you

are " happiness " ! Merely because you have linked independence and

sufficiency with the worldly existence, this sense of deficiency has

arisen in you.Because you are identifying your self with ever

deficient world, you have developed sense of deficiency in you-

inspite your basically always being independent and self sufficient!

Otherwise What kind of deficiency can arise in the Daughter of the

Emperor of all the Emperors? Detail them out if you can!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

 

I think some more clarification is needed to understand deeply the

statement " Don't desire anything other than God " . This clarification

has roots in some verses of Gita Chapter 2, emphasizing the true

identity of a person being Impersonal Atman which is Consciousness.

 

We need to understand desire itself and meaning of God. It is not

that one should not desire at all. We know very well that most of

our prayers are filled with desires including those in Vedas!

However these desires are not personal even when they sound

personal, asking God to give/help acquire necessary things for

sustenance of life, peace, freedom from sorrows etc etc. This is

very OK!

 

It is important to know a desire signals a lack or insufficiency of

some kind. It is common to fulfill such lacks through objects such

as money, power, fame, drinks, ambition to become somebody, or

selfish relationship and a host of other things. It is also our

common experience that desires fulfilled leads to some immediate

satisfaction but gives rise to another set of desires and fears of

not fulfilling them. Desire and fear are two sides of the same coin

and thus life goes on chasing objects. This is why we are attached

to objects but never find any lasting peace or happiness.

 

Why do we feel lack? Such lacks are felt only because I consider

myself an independent and separate person, limited by the capacities

of both body and mind which I considered my limitations. Obviously,

that which is limited, gives rise to lack .

 

Upon investigating, I find that I get fooled by considering the

contents of my mind (desires, fears, ambitions etc ) as " me " ,

whereas actually contents of all minds are in Consciousness-God

which is one Wholeness! Since contents come and go in Consciousness-

God, I cannot be that. I have a separate physical body but how can I

say I am separate from the rest of the mankind just because contents

of my mind are different than other minds? My reality is the

consciousness in which " me " as my separate existence appears for a

while only. Then I discover as a matter of fact " me " is such a

separation itself, not that " me " is a separate person. There is no

such thing as 'me " .

 

With this understanding person(mind) gives way(surrenders) to make

room for impersonal God-consciousness to take over desires and

fulfillment of such an apparent person. Life is lived impersonally,

desires are all impersonal and thus fulfilled. Even if they

apparently are not fulfilled, there is an undercurrent of Peace and

Joy and Love of fulfillment!

 

Such Happiness being impersonal doesn't depend on objects but

objects are welcome for celebration of life as they all are God in

disguise! This is called desiring only God in all our desiring.

 

Namaskars... Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-------------------------------

 

Dear Andersen (Indra-sen)

The god is yourself when you are alone and satisfied with full

awareness, and in state of witness of the world in an unending

cycle. But when engaged in reaction of natural or social or legal

laws, you have to do things such as breathing/eating/sleeping

(natural laws), companionship, work (social laws) and paying

obligation for exchanges of goods and services (legal laws).

Breathing, work and paying bills are samething as these must be done

to survive in the condition of a given nature. in chapter 2, Sri

Krishna says, that these are KARMA BANDHAN or obligation of doing or

VYAVSAYA (dealing with various subject matter), and not the KARMA.

The KARMA is different from it, because it gives step by step

renunciation or loosing desire of mundane things, and beconing

simple and with true love. Such a person, pays bills, does all work,

and attends to every call of nature without getting disturbed and

unshaken mindsets.

 

The God pays all bills, but in hands of yours and you will keep

memory of unpaid bills, because it is in the nature of memory to get

freedom from the bondage as you are consumer of things upon which

your are depending on unwilling partner. A child does not pay bills

because he/she has no separate indentity from its parents. Child is

not in business, and therefore enjoys the freedom, by love of

parents who pay all bills. The god pays bills, similarly, for all

those who are in love with it, and find no shortage of people in

this world who are more wiling to pay bills in lieu of the pure

love.

 

Sri Krishna says the following, and this is the only step by step

approach to understanding nature and ourselves.

UpDrishta Anumanta Cha Bharta Bhokta Maheswarah ...

 

In the first step, Sri Krishna is UPDRISHTA (looking from behind)

who is like cinema operator of film. The film is run in behind, and

audiences DRISHTA) see at the images of it on canvas in the front.

So the world is an image (DRASHYA) of imagination of our own, now

came into reality. We are seeing things by own choices, and the

world will change if our choices change.

 

Once this principle is known, each one of us desire with utmost care

and not think of something undesrable. This state of self restaint

and conselling with self is called ANUMANTA.

 

After the second step, we get control over what we see and choose to

see, and remain in state of non defense, and non conflict. This

causes to fulfil our desires without undue restriction. This is

BHARTA. The devotee to this principle of Sri Krishna gets satisfied

with every work, freely, and is not under an obligation.

 

In the forth step, the devotee start giving its knowledge and

desirable objects to those who need it. In this process, when some

one eats the food, or applies his/her knowledge in thier work, the

devotee gets the pleasure, as if he/she is eating or doing the

thing. This is called BHOKTA or consumer of things but in a

different way.

 

In the fifth step, He/She gets self realization of the nature and

cause and effects. This is MAHESWAR.

 

I think this note should be enough for the right wood to catch fire

of the knowledge of the Bhagwat Gita in the context of paying bills,

and obligation of work, and living.

 

Best regards

K G

(Krishna Gopal)

 

--------------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> So if you make the statement not to desire anything other than

God,

> there is nothing else! What about desire to pay all bills? so

you

> say don't worry ! but to leave this in God's mighty hands.

>

> I like the idea of not looking to others for happiness and I try

but

> again these are hard lessons.

>

> What does Gita say regarding practical ways to sustain this life

and

> it's necessities, and regarding achieving independence and self-

> sufficiency ? Please help this woman to learn her homework of what

> is right ?

>

> Catherine Andersen

>

>

>

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses

> which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be posted.

>

> 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

least

> once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other

> scriptures to substantiate your response.

>

> 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

one

> page at the most (500 words or so).

>

> 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

>

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

>

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

>

> 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

(but

> not links to other sites).

>

> 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

>

> 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

>

> 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

posted

> which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

>

> 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content

> is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

question

> being asked.

>

> 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed wherever possible.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

[Guest guest]

-Shree Hari-

 

I will give an answer. (my knowledge of Bhagwad Gita is poor).

But I have been quietly reading this site, I am here to learn. So I

will speak from my soul.

 

The desire to know God, the Divine, the Absolute, the Ultimate Truth,

whatever name, can burn so fiercely, that you are prepared to follow

the path that is offered you.

 

That is the focus, other things are at the peripheral.

 

With respect, and Divine Love.

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

 

------------------------------

The idea is to remain connected with God at all times

so that one does not go about thinking about good or bad,

pay the bill or not pay the bills, do this or not do this etc.

to be away from duality to be precise.

 

But then it does not mean that one stops playing the role, whatever

it may be. By remaining connected, one plays the role in the best

possible way since " thought pollution " is zero. Your comparing,

good and bad labelling mind is quite.... So, you pay the bills, you

earn the living, live a normal life like anybody else but with peace

and

happiness within. And when you do that everything positive starts

happening around you. You are able to live a wonderful life without

desiring anything .

 

Sushil Jain

------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> Re Saadhak - Catherine's Query

>

> At the outset welcome to the principles of Sanatan Dharma (eternal

> religion, beginning less religion). There is nothing in this

> univerese for which the explanation / solution is not available in

> Geetaji and allied scriptures.

>

> First, desire. Desires can be classified into two parts. One -

> Needs. Two - Luxuries. Your basic needs are air, water, food,

cloths

> and shelter - in that order of importance. These things you get

> automatically without any efforts at your end ( though when you

> become adult - sometimes you think you are doing efforts to earn

> that. But when you become wise you know that these donot come by

> present deeds- the experience doesnot support the corelation of

> present deeds with the quantum or quality therof. You find that all

> other creatures in the universe get up hungry in the morning but

> sleep with their bellies full. You find many human beings getting

> more than you and doing lesser efforts than you. You recall that

> when you were child you got everything without doing anything. You

> recall that milk in the breasts of your mother came as soon as you

> were born. You start seeing old people doing nothing but getting

> these needs fulfilled anyway ) and the quantum or the quality

> thereof is based on your past Karma (deeds). But it is definitely

> the responsibilty of God / Mother Nature to keep you alive as a

> human being for the destined number of breaths ( years).

>

> Father God / Mother Nature will have to provide you with these

> essentials- you have no role there! After all you did not come to

> this world out of your choice, you have been dropped here out of

> God's will! You did not choose your parents, your gender, your

> caste, colour or country ! Nor you shall have any say at the time

> of departure. So you don't have to worry for sustenance in the

> middle.

>

> Anybody who worries therefore about these basic needs - is worrying

> illogically, out of ego and " desire for more " . There is nothing

> wrong in making efforts to feed yourself and your dependants. In

> fact that is your duty as per Geetaji. Wrong is to corelate the

> efforts with the results. " To worry " is stupidity.No religion

> preaches you to become lazy or do nothing- certainly the Sanatan

> Dharma doesnot at all preach that but after making efforts you

> should leave the results to the God. You should not desire X or Y

> result. You keep making efforts but as your duty only without

> keeping results in focus..

>

> THE PRACTICAL SOLUTION desired by you -

>

> Conclusion? Keep doing your duty towards yourself and towards those

> who you consider are depending upon you. Leave results to the God.

> At all times " don't worry " ! By worrying bills don't get paid- had

> that been the case we all would have worried, worried and worried

> and thereby ensured that the bills get paid,paid and paid !

>

> That is about first classification of " desires " . Your basic needs.

> Geeta permits even the realised soul to continue doing bare minimum

> efforts to sustain the body. " To make efforts " is not desiring! To

> corelate efforts with results is " desiring " ! Hence your opening

> caption " desire to pay bills " should be corrected accordingly.

>

> Now about your statement- " to leave this(payment of bills) into the

> mighty hands of God " . Where is the need to do that? In the past you

> did not leave that in the God's hands-whether the bills remained

> unpaid? You have got human body, mind, two hands , sharp

intellect,

> and capacity to do Karma and make efforts- why you should not make

> genuine efforts? It is another matter that irrespective of whether

> you leave to God's hands something or not- you are always in his

> hands only.

>

> Here I must impart another principle to you. Geetaji 18:66. If you

> can dare , please leave all your worries including payment of bills

> into the hands of God. Surrender with complete and total faith!

> There must not be the slightest amount of doubt or worry then in

> your mind. Be certain your bills shall not remain unpaid. But the

> surrender must be total.No ego. No worry inside. No doubt. No

> reliance upon your capacity or power or ability. Simply surrender

as

> a child surrenders before the Mom. Your needs will be taken care of

> automatically,though then you will become unmindful of those needs.

> Do that if you can. Else do your duties, make efforts,leave results

> to the God and relax. Never Never Worry!

>

> Next time regarding the second classification_ luxuries, which in

> fact are really " desires " . In the meantime please do write about

> the practical difficulties which you feel you may encounter in

the

> implementation of what is stated above.

>

> You are " independent " and " self sufficient " always. You are

daughter

> of the King of all the Kings. By your very form , you

> are " happiness " ! Merely because you have linked independence and

> sufficiency with the worldly existence, this sense of deficiency

has

> arisen in you.Because you are identifying your self with ever

> deficient world, you have developed sense of deficiency in you-

> inspite your basically always being independent and self

sufficient!

> Otherwise What kind of deficiency can arise in the Daughter of the

> Emperor of all the Emperors? Detail them out if you can!

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

> --------------------------------

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> I think some more clarification is needed to understand deeply the

> statement " Don't desire anything other than God " . This

clarification

> has roots in some verses of Gita Chapter 2, emphasizing the true

> identity of a person being Impersonal Atman which is Consciousness.

>

> We need to understand desire itself and meaning of God. It is not

> that one should not desire at all. We know very well that most of

> our prayers are filled with desires including those in Vedas!

> However these desires are not personal even when they sound

> personal, asking God to give/help acquire necessary things for

> sustenance of life, peace, freedom from sorrows etc etc. This is

> very OK!

>

> It is important to know a desire signals a lack or insufficiency of

> some kind. It is common to fulfill such lacks through objects such

> as money, power, fame, drinks, ambition to become somebody, or

> selfish relationship and a host of other things. It is also our

> common experience that desires fulfilled leads to some immediate

> satisfaction but gives rise to another set of desires and fears of

> not fulfilling them. Desire and fear are two sides of the same coin

> and thus life goes on chasing objects. This is why we are attached

> to objects but never find any lasting peace or happiness.

>

> Why do we feel lack? Such lacks are felt only because I consider

> myself an independent and separate person, limited by the

capacities

> of both body and mind which I considered my limitations. Obviously,

> that which is limited, gives rise to lack .

>

> Upon investigating, I find that I get fooled by considering the

> contents of my mind (desires, fears, ambitions etc ) as " me " ,

> whereas actually contents of all minds are in Consciousness-God

> which is one Wholeness! Since contents come and go in Consciousness-

> God, I cannot be that. I have a separate physical body but how can

I

> say I am separate from the rest of the mankind just because

contents

> of my mind are different than other minds? My reality is the

> consciousness in which " me " as my separate existence appears for a

> while only. Then I discover as a matter of fact " me " is such a

> separation itself, not that " me " is a separate person. There is no

> such thing as 'me " .

>

> With this understanding person(mind) gives way(surrenders) to make

> room for impersonal God-consciousness to take over desires and

> fulfillment of such an apparent person. Life is lived impersonally,

> desires are all impersonal and thus fulfilled. Even if they

> apparently are not fulfilled, there is an undercurrent of Peace and

> Joy and Love of fulfillment!

>

> Such Happiness being impersonal doesn't depend on objects but

> objects are welcome for celebration of life as they all are God in

> disguise! This is called desiring only God in all our desiring.

>

> Namaskars... Pratap

> (Pratap Bhatt)

> -------------------------------

>

> Dear Andersen (Indra-sen)

> The god is yourself when you are alone and satisfied with full

> awareness, and in state of witness of the world in an unending

> cycle. But when engaged in reaction of natural or social or legal

> laws, you have to do things such as breathing/eating/sleeping

> (natural laws), companionship, work (social laws) and paying

> obligation for exchanges of goods and services (legal laws).

> Breathing, work and paying bills are samething as these must be

done

> to survive in the condition of a given nature. in chapter 2, Sri

> Krishna says, that these are KARMA BANDHAN or obligation of doing

or

> VYAVSAYA (dealing with various subject matter), and not the KARMA.

> The KARMA is different from it, because it gives step by step

> renunciation or loosing desire of mundane things, and beconing

> simple and with true love. Such a person, pays bills, does all

work,

> and attends to every call of nature without getting disturbed and

> unshaken mindsets.

>

> The God pays all bills, but in hands of yours and you will keep

> memory of unpaid bills, because it is in the nature of memory to

get

> freedom from the bondage as you are consumer of things upon which

> your are depending on unwilling partner. A child does not pay bills

> because he/she has no separate indentity from its parents. Child is

> not in business, and therefore enjoys the freedom, by love of

> parents who pay all bills. The god pays bills, similarly, for all

> those who are in love with it, and find no shortage of people in

> this world who are more wiling to pay bills in lieu of the pure

> love.

>

> Sri Krishna says the following, and this is the only step by step

> approach to understanding nature and ourselves.

> UpDrishta Anumanta Cha Bharta Bhokta Maheswarah ...

>

> In the first step, Sri Krishna is UPDRISHTA (looking from behind)

> who is like cinema operator of film. The film is run in behind, and

> audiences DRISHTA) see at the images of it on canvas in the front.

> So the world is an image (DRASHYA) of imagination of our own, now

> came into reality. We are seeing things by own choices, and the

> world will change if our choices change.

>

> Once this principle is known, each one of us desire with utmost

care

> and not think of something undesrable. This state of self restaint

> and conselling with self is called ANUMANTA.

>

> After the second step, we get control over what we see and choose

to

> see, and remain in state of non defense, and non conflict. This

> causes to fulfil our desires without undue restriction. This is

> BHARTA. The devotee to this principle of Sri Krishna gets

satisfied

> with every work, freely, and is not under an obligation.

>

> In the forth step, the devotee start giving its knowledge and

> desirable objects to those who need it. In this process, when some

> one eats the food, or applies his/her knowledge in thier work, the

> devotee gets the pleasure, as if he/she is eating or doing the

> thing. This is called BHOKTA or consumer of things but in a

> different way.

>

> In the fifth step, He/She gets self realization of the nature and

> cause and effects. This is MAHESWAR.

>

> I think this note should be enough for the right wood to catch fire

> of the knowledge of the Bhagwat Gita in the context of paying

bills,

> and obligation of work, and living.

>

> Best regards

> K G

> (Krishna Gopal)

>

> --------------------------------

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > So if you make the statement not to desire anything other than

> God,

> > there is nothing else! What about desire to pay all bills? so

> you

> > say don't worry ! but to leave this in God's mighty hands.

> >

> > I like the idea of not looking to others for happiness and I try

> but

> > again these are hard lessons.

> >

> > What does Gita say regarding practical ways to sustain this life

> and

> > it's necessities, and regarding achieving independence and self-

> > sufficiency ? Please help this woman to learn her homework of

what

> > is right ?

> >

> > Catherine Andersen

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> >

> > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> responses

> > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be posted.

> >

> > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> least

> > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> other

> > scriptures to substantiate your response.

> >

> > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

> one

> > page at the most (500 words or so).

> >

> > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> >

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> >

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > organizations.

> >

> > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

> (but

> > not links to other sites).

> >

> > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> > number, address etc.

> >

> > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> > since the message is going to the entire group.

> >

> > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> posted

> > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> >

> > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> content

> > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> question

> > being asked.

> >

> > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > bracketed wherever possible.

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

Yes Brother Mike! That is because you are fundamentally a part of

that Divine , that God only. It is a law that the part always gets

attracted to whole. The water which gets separated from ocean does

not take rest, keeps on moving restlessly from one form to another

vapour, cloud, moisture, rain and from one place to another ponds,

lakes, drainage , pot holes, rivers and finds peace only when it

merges again with ocean! We all are those separated drops of ocean.

How then can we remain peaceful and not desire for God ? How then

the desire for God shall not burn so fiercely as stated by you?

Please continue your interest in the group and contribute to the

queries.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Mike, I can say with conviction that you seem to have grasped the

nectar of Gitaji

 

Per my understanding, Shri Ram Krishna Paramhansa advised that we

should do the worldly work with one hand and hold God with the

other. When we have finished the worldly work, our both hands will

automatically hold god. This is the crux.

 

At all times we must try to remember god. Even Lord Krishna orders

Arjun " Tasmat sarveshu kaleshu mamanusmar yudhya cha " (Chapter 8

Verse 7). Lord orders Arjun to remember him even during war (one can

imagine how difficult this can be, but still this is the order).

 

Cathy, I believe you have been provided an amazing insight in Mike's

message

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

 

-------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> -Shree Hari-

>

> I will give an answer. (my knowledge of Bhagwad Gita is poor).

> But I have been quietly reading this site, I am here to learn. So I

> will speak from my soul.

>

> The desire to know God, the Divine, the Absolute, the Ultimate

Truth,

> whatever name, can burn so fiercely, that you are prepared to

follow

> the path that is offered you.

>

> That is the focus, other things are at the peripheral.

>

> With respect, and Divine Love.

>

> Mike

> (Mike Keenor)

>

> ------------------------------

> The idea is to remain connected with God at all times

> so that one does not go about thinking about good or bad,

> pay the bill or not pay the bills, do this or not do this etc.

> to be away from duality to be precise.

>

> But then it does not mean that one stops playing the role, whatever

> it may be. By remaining connected, one plays the role in the best

> possible way since " thought pollution " is zero. Your comparing,

> good and bad labelling mind is quite.... So, you pay the bills,

you

> earn the living, live a normal life like anybody else but with

peace

> and

> happiness within. And when you do that everything positive starts

> happening around you. You are able to live a wonderful life

without

> desiring anything .

>

> Sushil Jain

> ------------------------------

>

>

>

>

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > Re Saadhak - Catherine's Query

> >

> > At the outset welcome to the principles of Sanatan Dharma

(eternal

> > religion, beginning less religion). There is nothing in this

> > univerese for which the explanation / solution is not available

in

> > Geetaji and allied scriptures.

> >

> > First, desire. Desires can be classified into two parts. One -

> > Needs. Two - Luxuries. Your basic needs are air, water, food,

> cloths

> > and shelter - in that order of importance. These things you get

> > automatically without any efforts at your end ( though when you

> > become adult - sometimes you think you are doing efforts to earn

> > that. But when you become wise you know that these donot come by

> > present deeds- the experience doesnot support the corelation of

> > present deeds with the quantum or quality therof. You find that

all

> > other creatures in the universe get up hungry in the morning but

> > sleep with their bellies full. You find many human beings

getting

> > more than you and doing lesser efforts than you. You recall that

> > when you were child you got everything without doing anything.

You

> > recall that milk in the breasts of your mother came as soon as

you

> > were born. You start seeing old people doing nothing but getting

> > these needs fulfilled anyway ) and the quantum or the quality

> > thereof is based on your past Karma (deeds). But it is

definitely

> > the responsibilty of God / Mother Nature to keep you alive as a

> > human being for the destined number of breaths ( years).

> >

> > Father God / Mother Nature will have to provide you with these

> > essentials- you have no role there! After all you did not come

to

> > this world out of your choice, you have been dropped here out of

> > God's will! You did not choose your parents, your gender, your

> > caste, colour or country ! Nor you shall have any say at the

time

> > of departure. So you don't have to worry for sustenance in the

> > middle.

> >

> > Anybody who worries therefore about these basic needs - is

worrying

> > illogically, out of ego and " desire for more " . There is nothing

> > wrong in making efforts to feed yourself and your dependants.

In

> > fact that is your duty as per Geetaji. Wrong is to corelate the

> > efforts with the results. " To worry " is stupidity.No religion

> > preaches you to become lazy or do nothing- certainly the Sanatan

> > Dharma doesnot at all preach that but after making efforts you

> > should leave the results to the God. You should not desire X or

Y

> > result. You keep making efforts but as your duty only without

> > keeping results in focus..

> >

> > THE PRACTICAL SOLUTION desired by you -

> >

> > Conclusion? Keep doing your duty towards yourself and towards

those

> > who you consider are depending upon you. Leave results to the

God.

> > At all times " don't worry " ! By worrying bills don't get paid-

had

> > that been the case we all would have worried, worried and

worried

> > and thereby ensured that the bills get paid,paid and paid !

> >

> > That is about first classification of " desires " . Your basic

needs.

> > Geeta permits even the realised soul to continue doing bare

minimum

> > efforts to sustain the body. " To make efforts " is not desiring!

To

> > corelate efforts with results is " desiring " ! Hence your opening

> > caption " desire to pay bills " should be corrected accordingly.

> >

> > Now about your statement- " to leave this(payment of bills) into

the

> > mighty hands of God " . Where is the need to do that? In the past

you

> > did not leave that in the God's hands-whether the bills remained

> > unpaid? You have got human body, mind, two hands , sharp

> intellect,

> > and capacity to do Karma and make efforts- why you should not

make

> > genuine efforts? It is another matter that irrespective of

whether

> > you leave to God's hands something or not- you are always in his

> > hands only.

> >

> > Here I must impart another principle to you. Geetaji 18:66. If

you

> > can dare , please leave all your worries including payment of

bills

> > into the hands of God. Surrender with complete and total faith!

> > There must not be the slightest amount of doubt or worry then in

> > your mind. Be certain your bills shall not remain unpaid. But

the

> > surrender must be total.No ego. No worry inside. No doubt. No

> > reliance upon your capacity or power or ability. Simply

surrender

> as

> > a child surrenders before the Mom. Your needs will be taken care

of

> > automatically,though then you will become unmindful of those

needs.

> > Do that if you can. Else do your duties, make efforts,leave

results

> > to the God and relax. Never Never Worry!

> >

> > Next time regarding the second classification_ luxuries, which

in

> > fact are really " desires " . In the meantime please do write about

> > the practical difficulties which you feel you may encounter in

> the

> > implementation of what is stated above.

> >

> > You are " independent " and " self sufficient " always. You are

> daughter

> > of the King of all the Kings. By your very form , you

> > are " happiness " ! Merely because you have linked independence and

> > sufficiency with the worldly existence, this sense of deficiency

> has

> > arisen in you.Because you are identifying your self with ever

> > deficient world, you have developed sense of deficiency in you-

> > inspite your basically always being independent and self

> sufficient!

> > Otherwise What kind of deficiency can arise in the Daughter of

the

> > Emperor of all the Emperors? Detail them out if you can!

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > Vyas N B

> > --------------------------------

> > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> >

> > I think some more clarification is needed to understand deeply

the

> > statement " Don't desire anything other than God " . This

> clarification

> > has roots in some verses of Gita Chapter 2, emphasizing the

true

> > identity of a person being Impersonal Atman which is

Consciousness.

> >

> > We need to understand desire itself and meaning of God. It is

not

> > that one should not desire at all. We know very well that most

of

> > our prayers are filled with desires including those in Vedas!

> > However these desires are not personal even when they sound

> > personal, asking God to give/help acquire necessary things for

> > sustenance of life, peace, freedom from sorrows etc etc. This is

> > very OK!

> >

> > It is important to know a desire signals a lack or insufficiency

of

> > some kind. It is common to fulfill such lacks through objects

such

> > as money, power, fame, drinks, ambition to become somebody, or

> > selfish relationship and a host of other things. It is also our

> > common experience that desires fulfilled leads to some immediate

> > satisfaction but gives rise to another set of desires and fears

of

> > not fulfilling them. Desire and fear are two sides of the same

coin

> > and thus life goes on chasing objects. This is why we are

attached

> > to objects but never find any lasting peace or happiness.

> >

> > Why do we feel lack? Such lacks are felt only because I consider

> > myself an independent and separate person, limited by the

> capacities

> > of both body and mind which I considered my limitations.

Obviously,

> > that which is limited, gives rise to lack .

> >

> > Upon investigating, I find that I get fooled by considering the

> > contents of my mind (desires, fears, ambitions etc ) as " me " ,

> > whereas actually contents of all minds are in Consciousness-God

> > which is one Wholeness! Since contents come and go in

Consciousness-

> > God, I cannot be that. I have a separate physical body but how

can

> I

> > say I am separate from the rest of the mankind just because

> contents

> > of my mind are different than other minds? My reality is the

> > consciousness in which " me " as my separate existence appears for

a

> > while only. Then I discover as a matter of fact " me " is such a

> > separation itself, not that " me " is a separate person. There is

no

> > such thing as 'me " .

> >

> > With this understanding person(mind) gives way(surrenders) to

make

> > room for impersonal God-consciousness to take over desires and

> > fulfillment of such an apparent person. Life is lived

impersonally,

> > desires are all impersonal and thus fulfilled. Even if they

> > apparently are not fulfilled, there is an undercurrent of Peace

and

> > Joy and Love of fulfillment!

> >

> > Such Happiness being impersonal doesn't depend on objects but

> > objects are welcome for celebration of life as they all are God

in

> > disguise! This is called desiring only God in all our desiring.

> >

> > Namaskars... Pratap

> > (Pratap Bhatt)

> > -------------------------------

> >

> > Dear Andersen (Indra-sen)

> > The god is yourself when you are alone and satisfied with full

> > awareness, and in state of witness of the world in an unending

> > cycle. But when engaged in reaction of natural or social or

legal

> > laws, you have to do things such as breathing/eating/sleeping

> > (natural laws), companionship, work (social laws) and paying

> > obligation for exchanges of goods and services (legal laws).

> > Breathing, work and paying bills are samething as these must be

> done

> > to survive in the condition of a given nature. in chapter 2, Sri

> > Krishna says, that these are KARMA BANDHAN or obligation of

doing

> or

> > VYAVSAYA (dealing with various subject matter), and not the

KARMA.

> > The KARMA is different from it, because it gives step by step

> > renunciation or loosing desire of mundane things, and beconing

> > simple and with true love. Such a person, pays bills, does all

> work,

> > and attends to every call of nature without getting disturbed

and

> > unshaken mindsets.

> >

> > The God pays all bills, but in hands of yours and you will keep

> > memory of unpaid bills, because it is in the nature of memory to

> get

> > freedom from the bondage as you are consumer of things upon

which

> > your are depending on unwilling partner. A child does not pay

bills

> > because he/she has no separate indentity from its parents. Child

is

> > not in business, and therefore enjoys the freedom, by love of

> > parents who pay all bills. The god pays bills, similarly, for

all

> > those who are in love with it, and find no shortage of people in

> > this world who are more wiling to pay bills in lieu of the pure

> > love.

> >

> > Sri Krishna says the following, and this is the only step by

step

> > approach to understanding nature and ourselves.

> > UpDrishta Anumanta Cha Bharta Bhokta Maheswarah ...

> >

> > In the first step, Sri Krishna is UPDRISHTA (looking from

behind)

> > who is like cinema operator of film. The film is run in behind,

and

> > audiences DRISHTA) see at the images of it on canvas in the

front.

> > So the world is an image (DRASHYA) of imagination of our own,

now

> > came into reality. We are seeing things by own choices, and the

> > world will change if our choices change.

> >

> > Once this principle is known, each one of us desire with utmost

> care

> > and not think of something undesrable. This state of self

restaint

> > and conselling with self is called ANUMANTA.

> >

> > After the second step, we get control over what we see and

choose

> to

> > see, and remain in state of non defense, and non conflict. This

> > causes to fulfil our desires without undue restriction. This is

> > BHARTA. The devotee to this principle of Sri Krishna gets

> satisfied

> > with every work, freely, and is not under an obligation.

> >

> > In the forth step, the devotee start giving its knowledge and

> > desirable objects to those who need it. In this process, when

some

> > one eats the food, or applies his/her knowledge in thier work,

the

> > devotee gets the pleasure, as if he/she is eating or doing the

> > thing. This is called BHOKTA or consumer of things but in a

> > different way.

> >

> > In the fifth step, He/She gets self realization of the nature

and

> > cause and effects. This is MAHESWAR.

> >

> > I think this note should be enough for the right wood to catch

fire

> > of the knowledge of the Bhagwat Gita in the context of paying

> bills,

> > and obligation of work, and living.

> >

> > Best regards

> > K G

> > (Krishna Gopal)

> >

> > --------------------------------

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > So if you make the statement not to desire anything other than

> > God,

> > > there is nothing else! What about desire to pay all bills?

so

> > you

> > > say don't worry ! but to leave this in God's mighty hands.

> > >

> > > I like the idea of not looking to others for happiness and I

try

> > but

> > > again these are hard lessons.

> > >

> > > What does Gita say regarding practical ways to sustain this

life

> > and

> > > it's necessities, and regarding achieving independence and

self-

> > > sufficiency ? Please help this woman to learn her homework of

> what

> > > is right ?

> > >

> > > Catherine Andersen

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > >

> > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > responses

> > > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

> > >

> > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> > least

> > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji

or

> > other

> > > scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > >

> > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

respecting

> > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed

say

> > one

> > > page at the most (500 words or so).

> > >

> > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

the

> > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > >

> > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > >

> > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > organizations.

> > >

> > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

author

> > (but

> > > not links to other sites).

> > >

> > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

phone

> > > number, address etc.

> > >

> > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

individual

> > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > >

> > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> > posted

> > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > >

> > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> > content

> > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> > question

> > > being asked.

> > >

> > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth,

> > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of

only

> > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > >

> > > MODERATOR

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> >

>