Why do Bad Things happen to Believers ? Is Life a Compromise ?

[Guest guest]

I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there are few

questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own. May be you

can help me.

 

1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

(believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then why do

bad things happen to them ?

 

2. Is compromise something God created, should we give up on

things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness in our

life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise whiling away

our life ?

 

3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated unfairly

but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in another's hand?

 

Thank You

 

Pinky

(Grishma Patel)

 

 

FROM THE MODERATOR

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the questions and the

responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines for Gita-

Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to you.

 

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

 

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying any

doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji will be

posted in the future.

 

2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only one at a

time.

 

3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at least once

in the question.

 

4. Please be specific with the question, relating the practical

difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around, where is

the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in the

teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji or other

Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

 

5. General questions will not be considered for future posting.

e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

 

 

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

 

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

 

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

one page at the most (500 words or so).

 

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

 

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

 

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

 

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

(but not links to other sites).

 

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

 

9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

 

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

 

11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

being asked.

 

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

-Shree Hari-

 

First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you have

contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from our sadhak

brethren, (much more learned than I).

 

Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20, and found it

comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater joy a person

can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you want the

most?

There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't give up things

that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain joy in the

divine.

The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of the ego.

Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any more,GOD will

look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when we feel we

are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that people

that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they are in a

very dark place.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

 

-------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

 

It may not be realized at first, but the proper question is not " why

do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen, what should

be my action? "

 

Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept whatever has

happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may ask: " did I

do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best of ability

God gave me and acted fairly? "

 

If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have done all that

you could have done, the result is not in your hand except to accept

and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for what

happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first before

prompting you to act to correct the results if and when needed. Now

isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it doesn't

matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of what was

perceived as bad result?

 

If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then there is a

lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now. Life is

not a compromise for simply accepting the results of injustice, but

is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself only after

carefully determining what happened was unjustice! Actions that

follow out of understanding and love and not originate from personal

desires and fear can never be bad in time.

 

In time you will see benefit/justice for all including you, even if

what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of giving

results is to take everyone' s interest including yours, because

yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in the moment

to accomplish the result.

 

One has to understand all abilities are given to us by God. When we

develop into a decent human being acquiring education, skills etc,

the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and necessary

environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family members and

friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't create

them only through our personal efforts. We can never act properly by

isolating ourselves.

 

Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by God,

sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best placed. Thus

actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to be

understood thoroughly, then only we can do good acts/karmas.

 

Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can not only

accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address them with

fortitude. At some point down the road we can even relieve God from

giving us only good results, rather make good of everything that

happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that whatever

happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one at the

time one needed.

 

Namaskars.....Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

------------------------------

Dear Ji,

 

This question is related to karma.

 

We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad activities such

as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb 2002, who

died May 2002.

 

The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and after

investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer stage IV

(malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and my wife

don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

 

as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it right. The 90

days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment, for him to

stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

 

The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or food taken

during pregnancy.

 

When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was mentioned

that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

 

Can you explain about this ?

 

This should not happen to any kind of living being.

 

srihari

 

(Ranganathan Srihari)

 

------------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there are few

> questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own. May be you

> can help me.

>

> 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

> (believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then why do

> bad things happen to them ?

>

> 2. Is compromise something God created, should we give up on

> things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness in our

> life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise whiling away

> our life ?

>

> 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated unfairly

> but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in another's

hand?

>

> Thank You

>

> Pinky

> (Grishma Patel)

>

>

> FROM THE MODERATOR

>

> GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

> related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the questions and

the

> responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines for Gita-

> Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to you.

>

> The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying any

> doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji will be

> posted in the future.

>

> 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only one at a

> time.

>

> 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at least once

> in the question.

>

> 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the practical

> difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around, where is

> the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in the

> teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji or other

> Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

>

> 5. General questions will not be considered for future posting.

> e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

>

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will

be

> posted.

>

> 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

least

> once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> other scriptures to substantiate your response.

>

> 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

> one page at the most (500 words or so).

>

> 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

>

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

>

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

>

> 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

> (but not links to other sites).

>

> 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

>

> 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

>

> 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

posted

> which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

>

> 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

> is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

> being asked.

>

> 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed wherever possible.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

 

The benevolence of Bhagwan on each and every Jiva is the same. To

Him every Jivaatmaa (embodied soul) is equal (Gita 9.29). Can there

be anyone else in the universe who can keep an account of all the

karmas (actions) of each and every second of each and every Jiva of

all its births since eternity, without pause? Only He does (Gita

3.22-24). And according to the deeds (karmas) of the Jivatma done in

its various forms and births, He allocates appropriately the next

womb after the death. Thus, although a new born does not do any ill

deeds, he/she has to bear the fruits of the past actions of the

previous billions of births as prarabdha (destiny) from the

accumulated actions (sanchita karma) which are now fructifying in

the present birth (Gita 13.21). However He is not responsible for

the fruits of any good or bad actions of the Jivas, but the Jiva

himself is. He is only imparting judiciously the fruits according to

His books. Thus if any one has to bear sorrow, pain or pleasure, no

matter for what reason, it is indeed destined to be so. It is wrong

to believe that if we have not done any vikarma (bad actions) in

this birth thus far, we will never experience sorrow. If the

prarabdh has destined so, yes we may not, but prarabdh may also have

something else in store for us. It is hardly to do anything with

believing in a scripture or not. Gita therefore teaches us to be

equanimous in sorrow or in joy.

 

I hope it would partly answer Ranganathanji's query and alleviate

some pain.

 

Regards.

 

K.N. Sharma

--------------------------------

Jai Shri Krishna,

 

Human birth has been considered to be very rare, which has been

given to us due to sheer grace of Parmaatma. Like our body, all

other things, situations and circumstances are also received by us

due to His grace only.

 

Those who wish to derive pleasure out of worldly things (Bhogi)

consider situations as favourable (Anukool) and unfavourable

(Pratikool), however those desiring to realize Parmaatma believe

that favourable, unfavourable or mixed situations are all received

due to grace of Parmaatma only for facilitating His realisation.

 

Actually an unfavourable situation is important means in realizing

Parmaatma. In a favourable situation there are all possibilities of

getting attracted to the world. For a spiritual aspirant (Sadhak)

only two things are important – (a) to detach from the world and (b)

to move towards Parmaatma.

 

A mother is not disgraceful while loving or punishing her child. Out

of love, she may distribute sweets to all the children playing with

her child, but if all the children misbehave, she will not punish

all of them but only HER OWN child. Similarly, Parmaatma sends

favourable situations to everyone, but unfavourable situations only

to those on whom he wants to shower His special grace (Kripa).

Unfavourable situatuions clean us of our sins. Many realized souls

such as Mira Bai, Surdaas Ji, Narsi Mehta, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram etc.

flourished in unfavourable situations only.

 

When a child is playing and is happy then the mother ignores him.

But if the child is sad or crying then mother gives him special care

and attention. Similarly, Parmaatma gives us special care and

attention when we are faced with unfavourable situations. Just as we

feel like assisting those who are needy or deprived, similarly

Parmaatma also feels like assisting those who encounter difficulties.

 

If we are careful in difficulties then we progress rapidly on the

spiritual path, but if we start crying then we won't be able to

progress.

 

Imagine a situation, one boy was six years old when his parents

died, now he is thirty years old. There is another boy who is also

thirty years old now but whose parents, brothers and grandparents

are alive. Who will be smarter between these two boys – obviously

the one whose parents died while he was very young, because the kind

of progress we make in difficulties is not possible when everything

is fine.

 

Therefore, a Sadhak should feel EXTREMELY HAPPY, if there are

difficult situations. Kunti (mother of Arjun) knew this fact and

therefore she asked Parmaatma to send unfavourable situations in her

life, so that she never forgets Him.

 

Rajendra J. Bohra

 

Narayana Narayana

 

 

The question 'why bad things happen to believers' forms a part of a

bigger 2 questions that are the cause of the misery of all human

beings. These are: " Why me " and " Why not me " . It is common

phenomenon arising out of comparisons. When I loose my job the

first reaction is Why me? Similarly if my neighbor wins a lottery

ticket I feel Why not me? Add to this a presumption that a believer

should get better grace from the Lord than the non- believer. As

you can see all these questions and turmoil in the mind is due to

our subjective assessment. I will give a few examples in nature

when opposite questions were asked the person is happy. Then we

proceed to understand the Gita view mentioned in several places.

 

1. When a child falls suddenly ill a mother ask 'why this poor child

who does not know how to overcome this illness Why not me who can

take it easily? See how peaceful she feels and helps the child to

get over with this attitude. Draw your own conclusion

2. Kunti the mother of Pandavas had problems all through her life

starting from the birth of Karna. Without going into detail of all

her problems, when Krishna asks her 'What can I do to help you my

dear aunt?' her reply was give me more troubles so that I will

remember you always and never forget.

 

Now coming to the reality of things: That a believer or even a good

person should not be subjected to bad things makes the assumption

that God is discriminating between good and bad people in bestowing

His Grace. This assumption can be proven to be wrong by the simple

example of the SUN we see everyday. He gives light, heat, food and

everything that nourishes the animate and inanimate creation. Gita

explains clearly, that without him there is no creation nor

sustenance. He does not discriminate good people and bad people;

good places and bad places to shine on. If we project this example

one can see that God does not discriminate anybody. He Gives and

Gives freely. Some times we do not know how to receive His Grace

and that is not His fault. For example look at the beautiful

message of Gita that has answers to every question and how we do not

take time to read and understand.

 

Going further on the theory of Karma propounded in Gita, no one can

escape the ripened fruits of our past actions in this and previous

lives. By constant practice of Bhakti or acquiring Jnana one can

eliminate those past Karmas that have not ripened and also avoid

the similarly the future ripening of the the present actions. Thus

Gita has profound answers to the above question. Once we read,

understand and appreciate its message the question why bad things to

believers does not arise at all.

 

An Aspirant trying to understand the Gita message

 

(B. Vempaty)

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> -Shree Hari-

>

> First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you have

> contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from our

sadhak

> brethren, (much more learned than I).

>

> Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20, and found

it

> comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

> Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater joy a

person

> can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you want the

> most?

> There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't give up

things

> that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain joy in

the

> divine.

> The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of the ego.

> Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any more,GOD

will

> look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when we feel

we

> are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that people

> that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they are

in a

> very dark place.

>

> With Respect and Divine Love,

>

> Mike

> (Mike Keenor)

>

> -------------------------------

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> It may not be realized at first, but the proper question is

not " why

> do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen, what

should

> be my action? "

>

> Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept whatever has

> happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may ask: " did

I

> do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best of

ability

> God gave me and acted fairly? "

>

> If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have done all

that

> you could have done, the result is not in your hand except to

accept

> and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for what

> happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first before

> prompting you to act to correct the results if and when needed.

Now

> isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it doesn't

> matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of what was

> perceived as bad result?

>

> If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then there is a

> lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now. Life is

> not a compromise for simply accepting the results of injustice,

but

> is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself only

after

> carefully determining what happened was unjustice! Actions that

> follow out of understanding and love and not originate from

personal

> desires and fear can never be bad in time.

>

> In time you will see benefit/justice for all including you, even

if

> what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of giving

> results is to take everyone' s interest including yours, because

> yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in the moment

> to accomplish the result.

>

> One has to understand all abilities are given to us by God. When

we

> develop into a decent human being acquiring education, skills etc,

> the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and necessary

> environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family members and

> friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't create

> them only through our personal efforts. We can never act properly

by

> isolating ourselves.

>

> Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by God,

> sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best placed.

Thus

> actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to be

> understood thoroughly, then only we can do good acts/karmas.

>

> Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can not only

> accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address them

with

> fortitude. At some point down the road we can even relieve God

from

> giving us only good results, rather make good of everything that

> happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that whatever

> happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one at the

> time one needed.

>

> Namaskars.....Pratap

> (Pratap Bhatt)

>

> ------------------------------

> Dear Ji,

>

> This question is related to karma.

>

> We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad activities

such

> as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb 2002,

who

> died May 2002.

>

> The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and after

> investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer stage IV

> (malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and my wife

> don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

>

> as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it right. The

90

> days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment, for him to

> stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

>

> The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or food taken

> during pregnancy.

>

> When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was

mentioned

> that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

>

> Can you explain about this ?

>

> This should not happen to any kind of living being.

>

> srihari

>

> (Ranganathan Srihari)

>

> ------------------------------

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there are

few

> > questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own. May be

you

> > can help me.

> >

> > 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

> > (believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then why do

> > bad things happen to them ?

> >

> > 2. Is compromise something God created, should we give up

on

> > things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness in our

> > life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise whiling

away

> > our life ?

> >

> > 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated unfairly

> > but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in another's

> hand?

> >

> > Thank You

> >

> > Pinky

> > (Grishma Patel)

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > FROM THE MODERATOR

> >

> > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

> > related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the questions and

> the

> > responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines for

Gita-

> > Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to you.

> >

> > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> >

> > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

> >

> > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying any

> > doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji will be

> > posted in the future.

> >

> > 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only one at a

> > time.

> >

> > 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at least

once

> > in the question.

> >

> > 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the practical

> > difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around, where

is

> > the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in the

> > teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji or other

> > Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

> >

> > 5. General questions will not be considered for future posting.

> > e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

> >

> >

> > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> >

> > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji,

will

> be

> > posted.

> >

> > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> least

> > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> >

> > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

> > one page at the most (500 words or so).

> >

> > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> >

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> >

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > organizations.

> >

> > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

author

> > (but not links to other sites).

> >

> > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> > number, address etc.

> >

> > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> > since the message is going to the entire group.

> >

> > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> posted

> > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> >

> > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content

> > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

question

> > being asked.

> >

> > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > bracketed wherever possible.

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

This world ( human life form) is not meant to be a place for

enjoyment at all. Nor is it a place for suffering. Heaven and hell

are the places for the enjoyment and suffering respectively, not the

human beings in this world. It is also not a place which is meant

for both pleasures and pains i.e. for mixed circumstances. Species

such as animals, birds etc. are the places where you can experience

mixed circumstances, not human beings. Human beings have to rise

above the dualities of pleasure and pain, respect and insult, gains

and losses, fame and ill fame etc.

 

For a human being this world is like an examination hall. You can

not complain that the question was tough. This world for a human

being is like a laboratory of Mother Nature. Here you are seen,

vetted, examined, weighed, measured, and ....... Put into the

fire ..... Straightened out...... and cleaned, washed thoroughly and

purified !

 

JUST AS : A loving mother first thoroughly cleans her child, gives

the child a bath, puts talcum powder on him, grooms and dresses him

nicely, puts a " kaajal teeka " on the child's forehead and only

thereafter gives the child into the waiting hands of his father.

SIMILARLY: The Mother Nature ( this world) cleans and purifies all

of us, makes us beautiful and then only places us in the hands of

our father- Paramatma.

 

JUST AS : When a child soiled in mud and dirty and mother decides to

clean him, bathes him, the child cries; tries to escape but the

mother catches him firmly. Sometimes the child suffers, dislikes and

does not want cold water - but the mother does not relent. Because

the mother knows that after taking bath the child himself would feel

better. SIMILARLY: The Paramatma washes our eyes with tears till

they are clean enough to behold the reality. He does not like dirt

on His children. After every calamity/pain , there certainly emerges

a purity in the heart.

 

JUST AS : When a child gets sick, you take him to a doctor. Doctor

readies the injection .... and the child cries. You " know " why the

child is crying. You are " powerful " also (you can say to Doctor not

to give injection). You are " kind " also(after all you are his

father). But you just hold the crying child firmly and allow the

Doctor to give injection. Why? Because you have long term welfare of

the child in vision. SIMILARLY: Inspite of Paramatma

being " sarvagya " (all knowing) ; " sarvasamartha " (all powerful) ,

and " paramdayaalu " (the kindest), He sometimes let's you suffer. He

has your long term welfare in vision.

 

JUST AS: A child is playing with baloon. When the ballon bursts, he

starts crying. But mother and elders do not cry. They know nothing

could have happened to the baloon except bursting! SIMILARLY: When

adverse circumstances are faced, we start crying. But wise people do

not. They know that pleasure and pain are two sides of same coin

only. Good and bad situations keep coming and going. What else can

happen to perishables, temporaries or momentary elements? All

worldly things, incidences, situations are " baloons " only !

 

JUST AS: When somebody gets unreasonable with child, he will come

running to the mother and complain. But the same child when he goes

to the school and teacher punishes him (sometimes the students are

asked to stand on chair, sometimes slapped also, some times they are

put in isolation) - does he complain to mother? No - a good child

will not do that! He understands! SIMILARLY : We being elders

should not complain about injustices flowing from the Paramatma. Do

we understand?

 

JUST AS: Some children are playing in the compound of the house and

a particular mother is watching them playing. If the children are

well-behaved and if that particular mother becomes happy and if she

decides to reward, she will distribute chocolates to all the

children, in most of the cases her child will get the chocolate

last. But if the children are not well-behaved, they are fighting

and that particular mother gets angry, she will not slap all the

children, she will punish her child only - because that child is

most dear to her. SIMILARLY: Adverse circumstances are sent by

Paramatma to that child who is the most dear to Him.

 

So Pinkyji - What should you do? Consider the following:-

 

JUST AS : Merely by crying, mother comes running to the child.

SIMILARLY: Merely by innocent prayer the Paramatma will come running

for you. Have " child like " faith in Him. The only power you have is

praying out of a feeling of powerlessness and helplessness(praying

out of helplessness is called " surrender " ) and Paramatma responds

always. He never, never fails in that. After surrendering you

become fearless (nirbhay), griefless (nisshok), carefree/worriless

(nishcinta) and doubtless (nissandeha) and start seeing the world as

a witness. Never forget you are daughter of the King of all the

Kings- Paramatma !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

>

> The benevolence of Bhagwan on each and every Jiva is the same. To

> Him every Jivaatmaa (embodied soul) is equal (Gita 9.29). Can

there

> be anyone else in the universe who can keep an account of all the

> karmas (actions) of each and every second of each and every Jiva

of

> all its births since eternity, without pause? Only He does (Gita

> 3.22-24). And according to the deeds (karmas) of the Jivatma done

in

> its various forms and births, He allocates appropriately the next

> womb after the death. Thus, although a new born does not do any

ill

> deeds, he/she has to bear the fruits of the past actions of the

> previous billions of births as prarabdha (destiny) from the

> accumulated actions (sanchita karma) which are now fructifying in

> the present birth (Gita 13.21). However He is not responsible for

> the fruits of any good or bad actions of the Jivas, but the Jiva

> himself is. He is only imparting judiciously the fruits according

to

> His books. Thus if any one has to bear sorrow, pain or pleasure,

no

> matter for what reason, it is indeed destined to be so. It is

wrong

> to believe that if we have not done any vikarma (bad actions) in

> this birth thus far, we will never experience sorrow. If the

> prarabdh has destined so, yes we may not, but prarabdh may also

have

> something else in store for us. It is hardly to do anything with

> believing in a scripture or not. Gita therefore teaches us to be

> equanimous in sorrow or in joy.

>

> I hope it would partly answer Ranganathanji's query and alleviate

> some pain.

>

> Regards.

>

> K.N. Sharma

> --------------------------------

> Jai Shri Krishna,

>

> Human birth has been considered to be very rare, which has been

> given to us due to sheer grace of Parmaatma. Like our body, all

> other things, situations and circumstances are also received by us

> due to His grace only.

>

> Those who wish to derive pleasure out of worldly things (Bhogi)

> consider situations as favourable (Anukool) and unfavourable

> (Pratikool), however those desiring to realize Parmaatma believe

> that favourable, unfavourable or mixed situations are all received

> due to grace of Parmaatma only for facilitating His realisation.

>

> Actually an unfavourable situation is important means in realizing

> Parmaatma. In a favourable situation there are all possibilities

of

> getting attracted to the world. For a spiritual aspirant (Sadhak)

> only two things are important – (a) to detach from the world and

(b)

> to move towards Parmaatma.

>

> A mother is not disgraceful while loving or punishing her child.

Out

> of love, she may distribute sweets to all the children playing

with

> her child, but if all the children misbehave, she will not punish

> all of them but only HER OWN child. Similarly, Parmaatma sends

> favourable situations to everyone, but unfavourable situations

only

> to those on whom he wants to shower His special grace (Kripa).

> Unfavourable situatuions clean us of our sins. Many realized souls

> such as Mira Bai, Surdaas Ji, Narsi Mehta, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram

etc.

> flourished in unfavourable situations only.

>

> When a child is playing and is happy then the mother ignores him.

> But if the child is sad or crying then mother gives him special

care

> and attention. Similarly, Parmaatma gives us special care and

> attention when we are faced with unfavourable situations. Just as

we

> feel like assisting those who are needy or deprived, similarly

> Parmaatma also feels like assisting those who encounter

difficulties.

>

> If we are careful in difficulties then we progress rapidly on the

> spiritual path, but if we start crying then we won't be able to

> progress.

>

> Imagine a situation, one boy was six years old when his parents

> died, now he is thirty years old. There is another boy who is also

> thirty years old now but whose parents, brothers and grandparents

> are alive. Who will be smarter between these two boys – obviously

> the one whose parents died while he was very young, because the

kind

> of progress we make in difficulties is not possible when

everything

> is fine.

>

> Therefore, a Sadhak should feel EXTREMELY HAPPY, if there are

> difficult situations. Kunti (mother of Arjun) knew this fact and

> therefore she asked Parmaatma to send unfavourable situations in

her

> life, so that she never forgets Him.

>

> Rajendra J. Bohra

>

> Narayana Narayana

>

>

> The question 'why bad things happen to believers' forms a part of

a

> bigger 2 questions that are the cause of the misery of all human

> beings. These are: " Why me " and " Why not me " . It is common

> phenomenon arising out of comparisons. When I loose my job the

> first reaction is Why me? Similarly if my neighbor wins a lottery

> ticket I feel Why not me? Add to this a presumption that a

believer

> should get better grace from the Lord than the non- believer. As

> you can see all these questions and turmoil in the mind is due to

> our subjective assessment. I will give a few examples in nature

> when opposite questions were asked the person is happy. Then we

> proceed to understand the Gita view mentioned in several places.

>

> 1. When a child falls suddenly ill a mother ask 'why this poor

child

> who does not know how to overcome this illness Why not me who can

> take it easily? See how peaceful she feels and helps the child to

> get over with this attitude. Draw your own conclusion

> 2. Kunti the mother of Pandavas had problems all through her life

> starting from the birth of Karna. Without going into detail of

all

> her problems, when Krishna asks her 'What can I do to help you my

> dear aunt?' her reply was give me more troubles so that I will

> remember you always and never forget.

>

> Now coming to the reality of things: That a believer or even a

good

> person should not be subjected to bad things makes the assumption

> that God is discriminating between good and bad people in

bestowing

> His Grace. This assumption can be proven to be wrong by the

simple

> example of the SUN we see everyday. He gives light, heat, food

and

> everything that nourishes the animate and inanimate creation. Gita

> explains clearly, that without him there is no creation nor

> sustenance. He does not discriminate good people and bad people;

> good places and bad places to shine on. If we project this

example

> one can see that God does not discriminate anybody. He Gives and

> Gives freely. Some times we do not know how to receive His Grace

> and that is not His fault. For example look at the beautiful

> message of Gita that has answers to every question and how we do

not

> take time to read and understand.

>

> Going further on the theory of Karma propounded in Gita, no one

can

> escape the ripened fruits of our past actions in this and

previous

> lives. By constant practice of Bhakti or acquiring Jnana one can

> eliminate those past Karmas that have not ripened and also avoid

> the similarly the future ripening of the the present actions.

Thus

> Gita has profound answers to the above question. Once we read,

> understand and appreciate its message the question why bad things

to

> believers does not arise at all.

>

> An Aspirant trying to understand the Gita message

>

> (B. Vempaty)

> -

-

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > -Shree Hari-

> >

> > First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you have

> > contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from our

> sadhak

> > brethren, (much more learned than I).

> >

> > Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20, and

found

> it

> > comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

> > Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater joy a

> person

> > can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you want

the

> > most?

> > There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't give up

> things

> > that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain joy

in

> the

> > divine.

> > The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of the

ego.

> > Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any more,GOD

> will

> > look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when we

feel

> we

> > are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that

people

> > that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they are

> in a

> > very dark place.

> >

> > With Respect and Divine Love,

> >

> > Mike

> > (Mike Keenor)

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> >

> > It may not be realized at first, but the proper question is

> not " why

> > do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen, what

> should

> > be my action? "

> >

> > Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept whatever has

> > happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may

ask: " did

> I

> > do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best of

> ability

> > God gave me and acted fairly? "

> >

> > If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have done all

> that

> > you could have done, the result is not in your hand except to

> accept

> > and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for what

> > happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first

before

> > prompting you to act to correct the results if and when needed.

> Now

> > isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it doesn't

> > matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of what

was

> > perceived as bad result?

> >

> > If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then there is a

> > lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now. Life

is

> > not a compromise for simply accepting the results of injustice,

> but

> > is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself only

> after

> > carefully determining what happened was unjustice! Actions that

> > follow out of understanding and love and not originate from

> personal

> > desires and fear can never be bad in time.

> >

> > In time you will see benefit/justice for all including you, even

> if

> > what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of giving

> > results is to take everyone' s interest including yours, because

> > yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in the

moment

> > to accomplish the result.

> >

> > One has to understand all abilities are given to us by God. When

> we

> > develop into a decent human being acquiring education, skills

etc,

> > the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and necessary

> > environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family members

and

> > friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't

create

> > them only through our personal efforts. We can never act

properly

> by

> > isolating ourselves.

> >

> > Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by God,

> > sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best placed.

> Thus

> > actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to be

> > understood thoroughly, then only we can do good acts/karmas.

> >

> > Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can not only

> > accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address them

> with

> > fortitude. At some point down the road we can even relieve God

> from

> > giving us only good results, rather make good of everything that

> > happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that whatever

> > happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one at the

> > time one needed.

> >

> > Namaskars.....Pratap

> > (Pratap Bhatt)

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Dear Ji,

> >

> > This question is related to karma.

> >

> > We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad activities

> such

> > as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb 2002,

> who

> > died May 2002.

> >

> > The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and after

> > investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer stage IV

> > (malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and my wife

> > don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

> >

> > as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it right. The

> 90

> > days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment, for him

to

> > stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

> >

> > The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or food

taken

> > during pregnancy.

> >

> > When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was

> mentioned

> > that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

> >

> > Can you explain about this ?

> >

> > This should not happen to any kind of living being.

> >

> > srihari

> >

> > (Ranganathan Srihari)

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there are

> few

> > > questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own. May

be

> you

> > > can help me.

> > >

> > > 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

> > > (believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then why

do

> > > bad things happen to them ?

> > >

> > > 2. Is compromise something God created, should we give

up

> on

> > > things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness in

our

> > > life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise whiling

> away

> > > our life ?

> > >

> > > 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated

unfairly

> > > but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in

another's

> > hand?

> > >

> > > Thank You

> > >

> > > Pinky

> > > (Grishma Patel)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> -

> > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > >

> > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

doubts

> > > related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the questions

and

> > the

> > > responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines for

> Gita-

> > > Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to you.

> > >

> > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> > >

> > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

> > >

> > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying any

> > > doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji will be

> > > posted in the future.

> > >

> > > 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only one

at a

> > > time.

> > >

> > > 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at least

> once

> > > in the question.

> > >

> > > 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the practical

> > > difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around,

where

> is

> > > the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in the

> > > teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji or

other

> > > Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

> > >

> > > 5. General questions will not be considered for future posting.

> > > e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

> > >

> > >

> > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > >

> > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > > responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji,

> will

> > be

> > > posted.

> > >

> > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> > least

> > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji

or

> > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > >

> > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

respecting

> > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed

say

> > > one page at the most (500 words or so).

> > >

> > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

the

> > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > >

> > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > >

> > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > organizations.

> > >

> > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

> author

> > > (but not links to other sites).

> > >

> > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

phone

> > > number, address etc.

> > >

> > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

individual

> > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > >

> > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> > posted

> > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > >

> > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> content

> > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> question

> > > being asked.

> > >

> > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth,

> > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of

only

> > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > >

> > > MODERATOR

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

Your first question was replied yesterday. Today the second

question. There is no compromise which you should make. Compromise

between whom? One party is external situation and circumstances. Who

is the other party? The other party, in fact is Your Mind ! You are

not the party at all ! You are not your mind ! You are independent

of your mind !

 

I fully agree with Mike that pain and pleasure in life depend upon

your mind set only. This world experienced by the individual rises

by the desire of the mind and vanishes by the absence of desire in

that mind. If Pinkyji can just relinquish the " desire for

happiness " - she will be peaceful at that moment itself. " Every

renunciation instantly generates peace " - it is a cardinal principle

of Gita (12:12)- this verse was also referred by Mike.

 

Here I have referred only " desire for happiness " not the " happiness "

itself. By relinquishing desire, the happiness does not stop coming.

Desire has no co-relation with actual happiness. But " desire for

happiness " has direct and definite corelation with sorrow.

Nothing else it can produce except sorrow. If happiness is to come

in your life, it will come even without your desiring for it.

JUST AS: Fever comes in the body even without desiring for it.

SIMILARLY: Happiness also comes even without desiring for it.

Moreover cessation of desire instantly brings peace unto you. Where

is happiness without peace?

(Ashantasya kutah sukham)

 

This mind in fact does not do anything except creating pains for

you. It DESIRES ! And It CHANGES also ! It turns you from

being " sahaj sukhraasi " (happy by your very form, naturally and

obviously happy, self proved happiness) to a mere stupid - when you

succumb to desires created by your mind ! Sorrow is not in the

world, it is in your desire to get pleasure !

 

JUST AS : One lady did not get a meal today. Another lady observed a

fast today. Both have an empty stomach. Physical state of both is

same. But the former is sorrowful and the latter is not sorrowful.

Why? Because the former lady had " desire for food " , the latter

willfully did not desire food. Thus sorrow lies ONLY in " desire for

happiness " .

 

No pleasure or sorrow exists outside the mind - in the first part

of the COMPROMISE - in the external situations or circumstances..

Outside in the world there is only " activity " happening in

the " matter " . Nothing more, nothing less. Our " me " and " mineness "

created by ego and mind with those activities and matters are only

producing pains and pleasures for us only and for no body else.

 

The pain that your mind creates is always some form of non-

acceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to WHAT IS AT

PRESENT. On the level of thought, the resistance is some form of

judgement. On the emotional level - it is negativity.

 

Your mind is the sole cause of your sorrows. It needs a factor

called " time " to function. " Past " and " future " are " times " and hence

operational areas of your mind. All negativity is caused by an

accumulation of time and denial of present. Unease, anxiety,

tension, stress, worry, fear, are caused by too much " future " . (And

not enough present). Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances, sadness,

bitterness and non-forgiveness are caused by too much of " past " (and

not enough present).

 

Mind can only travel either in the past or in future ! THERE IS NO

ROLE OF MIND IN THE PRESENT. Both past and future do not exist at

present. Your mind has created them to inflict pains unto itself

only. Since you have identified yourself with the mind, you are

experiencing the pain unnecessarily.

 

Hence ....... First accept the " present " and then act.

 

Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had chosen

it or as if it is sent for you by your Father - Paramatma. Always

work with it and not against it - cosidering it to be your friend

and not enemy. This will miraculously change/transform your life.

 

We all try to change the circumstances to suit our mind, intellect

and ego. We forget that this world is like a dog's curly tail.

Millions have tried in the past to straighten it, none succeeded.

Your " world " is in your " mind " . Let it loiter like a dog ! Let it

change ! Don't try to control your mind at all. You are not

independent in that.

 

Simply- CHANGE YOURSELF ! You are independent in that.

 

What is that change? Stop identifying yourself with your mind. You

are master of your mind. You can remain without your mind, but your

mind can not remain without you ! Just ignore what ever comes into

your mind. Your mind has capacity only to travel in past or in

future. Both do not exist. Throw away all remembrances of past and

fears of future. Remain established in the Self, in the present and

enjoy living this moment as a witness and spend this moment in

remembering Paramatma, in doing your duties and in doing desireless

karmas.

 

You be fearless, you be worriless, your mind will have to obey you !

You will be instantly peaceful - GUARANTEED ! Nothing else you need

to do!

 

In the concluding article tomorrow, we will deal with question No 3-

with those who hurt others.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

-

I'm surprised you used a word such as believers as according to my

understanding it is a very non-hindu term. I'm a hindu and as such

am not interested in belief per se, primarily because it is a

statement of uncertainty and brings in notions of faith etc.

 

Yes life etc. is a learning opportunity, and according to my

understanding in Hinduism, there are no chosen ones (because belief

implies religious discrimination on behalf of the creator). This is

a very important point. Just because you believe in " Santoshi Ma "

does not mean you are saved. As Hindus, we do not believe

in " salvation " , but " liberation " which are very different, one is a

passive process requiring a messianic character and the other your

own volition and action.

 

Why should bad things not happen to those so called believers

anyway? Believers tend towards spiritual arrogance of the worst

kind. I am better because I believe in blahdy blah, who cares what

you believe in? As a hindu i am totally areligious.

 

Hinduism teaches us karma i.e. action, watch your actions and the

rest will take care of itself, and dharma, be yourself.

 

Ravi

(Ravi Bakhsi)

-----------------------------

 

Dear Sir,

 

Please explain the below which is the arguement of my friend while

forwarding " Why do Bad things happen to Beievers?

 

How to make him understand? Please help me out? I am sure Lord

Krishna will definitely answer all his questions. Thanks ..

 

with regards

sampathkumar

 

--- On Sun, 20/7/08, SRINI <...rs.com> wrote:

 

SRINI

Re: Fw: Re: Why do Bad Things happen to

Believers ? Is Life a Compromise ?

sampathkumar

 

This is nothing new. It is based upon the presumption of previous

birth and sins in that birth. I am very well aware of this defense

for several decades now. There are many contradictions in

metaphysics and devotion that people switch from one to another

conveniently. Greeks had labeled this kind of logic as sophistry.

 

I don't care about what happens to me after I die. If I had sinned

and been punished in hell in several of my previous births I just

dont know abt it now, so why should I worry about hell and future

births?

 

Please argue if you can

 

Thanx and regards,

 

ns

(n SRINIvasan)

 

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> This world ( human life form) is not meant to be a place for

> enjoyment at all. Nor is it a place for suffering. Heaven and hell

> are the places for the enjoyment and suffering respectively, not

the

> human beings in this world. It is also not a place which is meant

> for both pleasures and pains i.e. for mixed circumstances. Species

> such as animals, birds etc. are the places where you can

experience

> mixed circumstances, not human beings. Human beings have to rise

> above the dualities of pleasure and pain, respect and insult,

gains

> and losses, fame and ill fame etc.

>

> For a human being this world is like an examination hall. You can

> not complain that the question was tough. This world for a human

> being is like a laboratory of Mother Nature. Here you are seen,

> vetted, examined, weighed, measured, and ....... Put into the

> fire ..... Straightened out...... and cleaned, washed thoroughly

and

> purified !

>

> JUST AS : A loving mother first thoroughly cleans her child, gives

> the child a bath, puts talcum powder on him, grooms and dresses

him

> nicely, puts a " kaajal teeka " on the child's forehead and only

> thereafter gives the child into the waiting hands of his father.

> SIMILARLY: The Mother Nature ( this world) cleans and purifies all

> of us, makes us beautiful and then only places us in the hands of

> our father- Paramatma.

>

> JUST AS : When a child soiled in mud and dirty and mother decides

to

> clean him, bathes him, the child cries; tries to escape but the

> mother catches him firmly. Sometimes the child suffers, dislikes

and

> does not want cold water - but the mother does not relent. Because

> the mother knows that after taking bath the child himself would

feel

> better. SIMILARLY: The Paramatma washes our eyes with tears till

> they are clean enough to behold the reality. He does not like dirt

> on His children. After every calamity/pain , there certainly

emerges

> a purity in the heart.

>

> JUST AS : When a child gets sick, you take him to a doctor. Doctor

> readies the injection .... and the child cries. You " know " why the

> child is crying. You are " powerful " also (you can say to Doctor

not

> to give injection). You are " kind " also(after all you are his

> father). But you just hold the crying child firmly and allow the

> Doctor to give injection. Why? Because you have long term welfare

of

> the child in vision. SIMILARLY: Inspite of Paramatma

> being " sarvagya " (all knowing) ; " sarvasamartha " (all powerful) ,

> and " paramdayaalu " (the kindest), He sometimes let's you suffer.

He

> has your long term welfare in vision.

>

> JUST AS: A child is playing with baloon. When the ballon bursts,

he

> starts crying. But mother and elders do not cry. They know nothing

> could have happened to the baloon except bursting! SIMILARLY: When

> adverse circumstances are faced, we start crying. But wise people

do

> not. They know that pleasure and pain are two sides of same coin

> only. Good and bad situations keep coming and going. What else can

> happen to perishables, temporaries or momentary elements? All

> worldly things, incidences, situations are " baloons " only !

>

> JUST AS: When somebody gets unreasonable with child, he will come

> running to the mother and complain. But the same child when he

goes

> to the school and teacher punishes him (sometimes the students are

> asked to stand on chair, sometimes slapped also, some times they

are

> put in isolation) - does he complain to mother? No - a good child

> will not do that! He understands! SIMILARLY : We being elders

> should not complain about injustices flowing from the Paramatma.

Do

> we understand?

>

> JUST AS: Some children are playing in the compound of the house

and

> a particular mother is watching them playing. If the children are

> well-behaved and if that particular mother becomes happy and if

she

> decides to reward, she will distribute chocolates to all the

> children, in most of the cases her child will get the chocolate

> last. But if the children are not well-behaved, they are fighting

> and that particular mother gets angry, she will not slap all the

> children, she will punish her child only - because that child is

> most dear to her. SIMILARLY: Adverse circumstances are sent by

> Paramatma to that child who is the most dear to Him.

>

> So Pinkyji - What should you do? Consider the following:-

>

> JUST AS : Merely by crying, mother comes running to the child.

> SIMILARLY: Merely by innocent prayer the Paramatma will come

running

> for you. Have " child like " faith in Him. The only power you have

is

> praying out of a feeling of powerlessness and helplessness(praying

> out of helplessness is called " surrender " ) and Paramatma responds

> always. He never, never fails in that. After surrendering you

> become fearless (nirbhay), griefless (nisshok),

carefree/worriless

> (nishcinta) and doubtless (nissandeha) and start seeing the world

as

> a witness. Never forget you are daughter of the King of all the

> Kings- Paramatma !

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

>

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

> >

> > The benevolence of Bhagwan on each and every Jiva is the same.

To

> > Him every Jivaatmaa (embodied soul) is equal (Gita 9.29). Can

> there

> > be anyone else in the universe who can keep an account of all

the

> > karmas (actions) of each and every second of each and every Jiva

> of

> > all its births since eternity, without pause? Only He does (Gita

> > 3.22-24). And according to the deeds (karmas) of the Jivatma

done

> in

> > its various forms and births, He allocates appropriately the

next

> > womb after the death. Thus, although a new born does not do any

> ill

> > deeds, he/she has to bear the fruits of the past actions of the

> > previous billions of births as prarabdha (destiny) from the

> > accumulated actions (sanchita karma) which are now fructifying

in

> > the present birth (Gita 13.21). However He is not responsible

for

> > the fruits of any good or bad actions of the Jivas, but the Jiva

> > himself is. He is only imparting judiciously the fruits

according

> to

> > His books. Thus if any one has to bear sorrow, pain or pleasure,

> no

> > matter for what reason, it is indeed destined to be so. It is

> wrong

> > to believe that if we have not done any vikarma (bad actions) in

> > this birth thus far, we will never experience sorrow. If the

> > prarabdh has destined so, yes we may not, but prarabdh may also

> have

> > something else in store for us. It is hardly to do anything with

> > believing in a scripture or not. Gita therefore teaches us to be

> > equanimous in sorrow or in joy.

> >

> > I hope it would partly answer Ranganathanji's query and

alleviate

> > some pain.

> >

> > Regards.

> >

> > K.N. Sharma

> > --------------------------------

> > Jai Shri Krishna,

> >

> > Human birth has been considered to be very rare, which has been

> > given to us due to sheer grace of Parmaatma. Like our body, all

> > other things, situations and circumstances are also received by

us

> > due to His grace only.

> >

> > Those who wish to derive pleasure out of worldly things (Bhogi)

> > consider situations as favourable (Anukool) and unfavourable

> > (Pratikool), however those desiring to realize Parmaatma believe

> > that favourable, unfavourable or mixed situations are all

received

> > due to grace of Parmaatma only for facilitating His realisation.

> >

> > Actually an unfavourable situation is important means in

realizing

> > Parmaatma. In a favourable situation there are all possibilities

> of

> > getting attracted to the world. For a spiritual aspirant

(Sadhak)

> > only two things are important – (a) to detach from the world and

> (b)

> > to move towards Parmaatma.

> >

> > A mother is not disgraceful while loving or punishing her child.

> Out

> > of love, she may distribute sweets to all the children playing

> with

> > her child, but if all the children misbehave, she will not

punish

> > all of them but only HER OWN child. Similarly, Parmaatma sends

> > favourable situations to everyone, but unfavourable situations

> only

> > to those on whom he wants to shower His special grace (Kripa).

> > Unfavourable situatuions clean us of our sins. Many realized

souls

> > such as Mira Bai, Surdaas Ji, Narsi Mehta, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram

> etc.

> > flourished in unfavourable situations only.

> >

> > When a child is playing and is happy then the mother ignores

him.

> > But if the child is sad or crying then mother gives him special

> care

> > and attention. Similarly, Parmaatma gives us special care and

> > attention when we are faced with unfavourable situations. Just

as

> we

> > feel like assisting those who are needy or deprived, similarly

> > Parmaatma also feels like assisting those who encounter

> difficulties.

> >

> > If we are careful in difficulties then we progress rapidly on

the

> > spiritual path, but if we start crying then we won't be able to

> > progress.

> >

> > Imagine a situation, one boy was six years old when his parents

> > died, now he is thirty years old. There is another boy who is

also

> > thirty years old now but whose parents, brothers and

grandparents

> > are alive. Who will be smarter between these two boys –

obviously

> > the one whose parents died while he was very young, because the

> kind

> > of progress we make in difficulties is not possible when

> everything

> > is fine.

> >

> > Therefore, a Sadhak should feel EXTREMELY HAPPY, if there are

> > difficult situations. Kunti (mother of Arjun) knew this fact and

> > therefore she asked Parmaatma to send unfavourable situations in

> her

> > life, so that she never forgets Him.

> >

> > Rajendra J. Bohra

> >

> > Narayana Narayana

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > The question 'why bad things happen to believers' forms a part

of

> a

> > bigger 2 questions that are the cause of the misery of all human

> > beings. These are: " Why me " and " Why not me " . It is common

> > phenomenon arising out of comparisons. When I loose my job the

> > first reaction is Why me? Similarly if my neighbor wins a

lottery

> > ticket I feel Why not me? Add to this a presumption that a

> believer

> > should get better grace from the Lord than the non- believer.

As

> > you can see all these questions and turmoil in the mind is due

to

> > our subjective assessment. I will give a few examples in nature

> > when opposite questions were asked the person is happy. Then we

> > proceed to understand the Gita view mentioned in several

places.

> >

> > 1. When a child falls suddenly ill a mother ask 'why this poor

> child

> > who does not know how to overcome this illness Why not me who

can

> > take it easily? See how peaceful she feels and helps the child

to

> > get over with this attitude. Draw your own conclusion

> > 2. Kunti the mother of Pandavas had problems all through her

life

> > starting from the birth of Karna. Without going into detail of

> all

> > her problems, when Krishna asks her 'What can I do to help you

my

> > dear aunt?' her reply was give me more troubles so that I will

> > remember you always and never forget.

> >

> > Now coming to the reality of things: That a believer or even a

> good

> > person should not be subjected to bad things makes the

assumption

> > that God is discriminating between good and bad people in

> bestowing

> > His Grace. This assumption can be proven to be wrong by the

> simple

> > example of the SUN we see everyday. He gives light, heat, food

> and

> > everything that nourishes the animate and inanimate creation.

Gita

> > explains clearly, that without him there is no creation nor

> > sustenance. He does not discriminate good people and bad

people;

> > good places and bad places to shine on. If we project this

> example

> > one can see that God does not discriminate anybody. He Gives

and

> > Gives freely. Some times we do not know how to receive His

Grace

> > and that is not His fault. For example look at the beautiful

> > message of Gita that has answers to every question and how we do

> not

> > take time to read and understand.

> >

> > Going further on the theory of Karma propounded in Gita, no one

> can

> > escape the ripened fruits of our past actions in this and

> previous

> > lives. By constant practice of Bhakti or acquiring Jnana one can

> > eliminate those past Karmas that have not ripened and also

avoid

> > the similarly the future ripening of the the present actions.

> Thus

> > Gita has profound answers to the above question. Once we read,

> > understand and appreciate its message the question why bad

things

> to

> > believers does not arise at all.

> >

> > An Aspirant trying to understand the Gita message

> >

> > (B. Vempaty)

> > --------------------------------

--

> -

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > -Shree Hari-

> > >

> > > First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you have

> > > contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from our

> > sadhak

> > > brethren, (much more learned than I).

> > >

> > > Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20, and

> found

> > it

> > > comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

> > > Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater joy a

> > person

> > > can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you want

> the

> > > most?

> > > There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't give up

> > things

> > > that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain joy

> in

> > the

> > > divine.

> > > The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of the

> ego.

> > > Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any

more,GOD

> > will

> > > look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when we

> feel

> > we

> > > are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that

> people

> > > that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they

are

> > in a

> > > very dark place.

> > >

> > > With Respect and Divine Love,

> > >

> > > Mike

> > > (Mike Keenor)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

-

> > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> > >

> > > It may not be realized at first, but the proper question is

> > not " why

> > > do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen, what

> > should

> > > be my action? "

> > >

> > > Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept whatever

has

> > > happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may

> ask: " did

> > I

> > > do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best of

> > ability

> > > God gave me and acted fairly? "

> > >

> > > If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have done

all

> > that

> > > you could have done, the result is not in your hand except to

> > accept

> > > and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for

what

> > > happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first

> before

> > > prompting you to act to correct the results if and when

needed.

> > Now

> > > isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it

doesn't

> > > matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of what

> was

> > > perceived as bad result?

> > >

> > > If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then there is

a

> > > lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now. Life

> is

> > > not a compromise for simply accepting the results of

injustice,

> > but

> > > is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself only

> > after

> > > carefully determining what happened was unjustice! Actions

that

> > > follow out of understanding and love and not originate from

> > personal

> > > desires and fear can never be bad in time.

> > >

> > > In time you will see benefit/justice for all including you,

even

> > if

> > > what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of giving

> > > results is to take everyone' s interest including yours,

because

> > > yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in the

> moment

> > > to accomplish the result.

> > >

> > > One has to understand all abilities are given to us by God.

When

> > we

> > > develop into a decent human being acquiring education, skills

> etc,

> > > the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and

necessary

> > > environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family members

> and

> > > friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't

> create

> > > them only through our personal efforts. We can never act

> properly

> > by

> > > isolating ourselves.

> > >

> > > Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by

God,

> > > sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best

placed.

> > Thus

> > > actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to be

> > > understood thoroughly, then only we can do good acts/karmas.

> > >

> > > Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can not

only

> > > accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address them

> > with

> > > fortitude. At some point down the road we can even relieve

God

> > from

> > > giving us only good results, rather make good of everything

that

> > > happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that

whatever

> > > happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one at

the

> > > time one needed.

> > >

> > > Namaskars.....Pratap

> > > (Pratap Bhatt)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

> > > Dear Ji,

> > >

> > > This question is related to karma.

> > >

> > > We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad activities

> > such

> > > as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb

2002,

> > who

> > > died May 2002.

> > >

> > > The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and

after

> > > investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer stage

IV

> > > (malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and my

wife

> > > don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

> > >

> > > as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it right.

The

> > 90

> > > days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment, for

him

> to

> > > stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

> > >

> > > The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or food

> taken

> > > during pregnancy.

> > >

> > > When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was

> > mentioned

> > > that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

> > >

> > > Can you explain about this ?

> > >

> > > This should not happen to any kind of living being.

> > >

> > > srihari

> > >

> > > (Ranganathan Srihari)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there

are

> > few

> > > > questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own. May

> be

> > you

> > > > can help me.

> > > >

> > > > 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

> > > > (believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then

why

> do

> > > > bad things happen to them ?

> > > >

> > > > 2. Is compromise something God created, should we give

> up

> > on

> > > > things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness in

> our

> > > > life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise

whiling

> > away

> > > > our life ?

> > > >

> > > > 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated

> unfairly

> > > > but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in

> another's

> > > hand?

> > > >

> > > > Thank You

> > > >

> > > > Pinky

> > > > (Grishma Patel)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > >

> > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

> doubts

> > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the questions

> and

> > > the

> > > > responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines for

> > Gita-

> > > > Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to

you.

> > > >

> > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> > > >

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> > > >

> > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying any

> > > > doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji will

be

> > > > posted in the future.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only one

> at a

> > > > time.

> > > >

> > > > 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at

least

> > once

> > > > in the question.

> > > >

> > > > 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the

practical

> > > > difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around,

> where

> > is

> > > > the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in the

> > > > teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji or

> other

> > > > Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

> > > >

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posting.

> > > > e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > > > responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji,

> > will

> > > be

> > > > posted.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged -

at

> > > least

> > > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote

Gitaji

> or

> > > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > > >

> > > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> respecting

> > > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should

exceed

> say

> > > > one page at the most (500 words or so).

> > > >

> > > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

> the

> > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

shlokas

> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > > (but not links to other sites).

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> > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > >

> > > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will

be

> > > posted

> > > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking

Shrimad

> > > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > > >

> > > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

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> youth,

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> only

> > > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > > >

> > > > MODERATOR

> > > > Ram Ram

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

What can one do when treated unfairly? I immensely liked Mike's

statement - It is so easy to reach for your sword when we feel we

are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that people

that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they are in

a dark place " . It is a statement emanating out of soul and out of

one's direct experience.. shared selflessly for benefit of sadhaks.

 

In previous replies I advised " surrender " to Paramatma and

renouncing the desire for happiness. The moment any one does that

the " sword " comes into his hands - believe me on that, if you can

believe.. He becomes powerful. Because it is a law, that action can

arise only out of inaction. Power arises out of weakness

(surrender). With relinquishment of desire, very roots of sorrow get

eliminated. So there are apples (or laddoos) in both the hands. You

instantly become fearless, worriless, doubtless and griefless upon

surrender. You have additional power now out of desirelessness.

Also - nothing now can steal your happiness ! Believe me on that !.

 

While you surrender out of weakness, but after surrender, you become

fearless, griefless etc. naturally. In due course, you become so

powerful that even Paramatma Himself starts running after you. Gopis

of Brij used to make Lord Krishna dance for a cup of butter milk !

You become powerful like that. Have faith and trust in your father!

 

So the sword comes into your hands to deal with those who were

unjust to you. Now what you should do? Now think.

 

1. First, who can cause pleasure or pains to others? No body is

capable of doing that! It has been proved to you in yesterday's

reply that it is your mind which creates pains for you. Now where is

pain, once you have stopped thinking about " past " and " future " and

have started living in the present doing desireless karmas and your

duty. Tell me honestly, where is pain now?

 

2. If other is bad to us, then this badness has come as a visitor to

him, it is not natural to him. He is as stainless fundamentally as

you are. Many times we too become unjust, but does that make us bad?

 

3. When somebody does bad to us then our old sins get squared off

and we become pure. We owe in fact a compliment or gratitude to

him ! Free of cost, without any efforts from our side, he came, he

destroyed our sins, and he purified us and now we have the sword in

our hands. If thanks are not due to him, then to whom ? There can

not be a greater friend of a man than that person who hurts you.

 

4. What an immense contribution he has made to you ! How easily he

made you throw away desire for happiness itself? How difficult it is

otherwise ? Is it possible to do so when circumstances are good ?

No - believe me on this!

 

5. Look how your svabhav (Your habits and attitudes) and how the

virtues of flexibilty, and tolerance in you have changed for good ?

What is austerity (tapa)? To tolerate adversities laughingly!

Paramatma told Arjuna in the beginning of Gita itself - " taans

titikhsva Bharat " (O Arjuna, Forebear that ! ). What else is

austerity ? How big are its results ? To whom you should thank for

the same ? How pure we have become ?

 

6. Such circumstances are sent by Paramatma to us to draw us towards

Him, to test whether we have acquired equanimity or not.

 

7. You get good company, satsanga and a lot of good things without

your even initially realising. It is a law that if some one does bad

to some good person, divine force presents before him well wishers /

help invariably. Look around you now, you will find many good people

wishing your welfare! Thanks are due to whom for that ?

 

8. That person in the past was capable of doing bad to us only

because we were weak - we had fear of losing something which we

considered precious, and that weakness within us made us tolerate

injustice. Now when you are desireless, not expecting anything,

fearless, worriless, Daughter of the Kings of all Kings, what harm

can any body cause you ? What can anybody snatch away from you when

you don't need anything ?

 

9. That poor fellow, on one hand, he destroyed your past sins and

made you pure, and helped you in the aforesaid ways, on other hand,

he has incurred for himself a wrath of nature also.. Law of Karma

which will not spare him, come what may!

 

Now does that person not deserve your gratitude and compassion? Mike

was right. Why then you should use sword at all?

 

In the last article tomorrow we will conclude with some direct

experiences of all of us on the subject - experiences drawn from

life itself !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas, N B

-

 

Namaste,

A short story I have heard, from a sadhu....gives an

interesting perspective on suffering.

A king once had a minister who went everywhere with him.

Whenever there was any situation, favorable or unfavorable, the

minister would say, " Krsna's mercy " . One day, the king was

hunting, and by accident he severed his thumb from his hand. The

minister said, " Krsna's mercy " . At this the king was enraged. He

put the minister in prison, thinking, " How dare he refer to my

suffering as mercy? " The minister responded with the usual, " Krsna's

mercy " . The next day, the king was in the forest, walking alone. A

group of dacoits who wanted to make an offering of a human being to

goddess Kali saw him, and decided that this king would be a good

offering. They threw the king in the water, but seeing the blood

gushing forth from his severed thumb, came to know of the missing

thumb, and decided that it would be inappropriate to offer a

sacrifice with only nine fingers. The king then truly understood

that his cutting off his thumb was indeed Krsna's mercy. When he

went and happily released the minister, he explained to him how

yes, indeed, the wound was Krsna's mercy, but then asked, " But why

did you say it was Krsna's mercy when I threw you into prison? "

The minister said, " If I hadn't been in prison, where would I have

been? Walking with you......and I have TEN fingers! "

 

It isn't just a funny story....we don't always know the reason

behind why different things happen. However, if we believe in our

heart that everything is meant to bring us closer to the Lord, we

loose our sense of frustration and fury. Who do we truly hold dear,

the living entities who have taken birth from our wombs, or the

Supreme Lord? His taking away from us a dear one is a test.

How many tears do we cry because we are not in the company of our

Supreme Friend? Do we believe Ch 18:61.... " The Supreme Lord is

situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the

wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine,

made of the material energy. " ? Do we follow Ch 18:57 " In all

activities just depend upon Me and work always under My protection

In such devotional service, be fully conscious of Me. " All

the events that happen in our life are a measuring stick to show us

how much we actually have faith in our Lord's presence....and until

these various traumas happen, we truly have no idea how weak or

strong our faith is. Truly, many persons walk around thinking

themselves completely surrendered and glorious bhaktas, until some

disaster falls. Then, they see their true selves.

 

Kindly forgive me if these words cause any pain to anyone; I am not

a harsh person...as a mother of six and wife with many moments of

grief to contend with. I believe in my heart, we have lessons to

learn, and that our place as a student, a disciple, a servant, is

not to demand Radha and Krsna, " TELL ME WHY! EXPLAIN YOURSELF! "

Rather, to look within and pray.

 

Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> Your first question was replied yesterday. Today the second

> question. There is no compromise which you should make. Compromise

> between whom? One party is external situation and circumstances.

Who

> is the other party? The other party, in fact is Your Mind ! You

are

> not the party at all ! You are not your mind ! You are independent

> of your mind !

>

> I fully agree with Mike that pain and pleasure in life depend upon

> your mind set only. This world experienced by the individual rises

> by the desire of the mind and vanishes by the absence of desire in

> that mind. If Pinkyji can just relinquish the " desire for

> happiness " - she will be peaceful at that moment itself. " Every

> renunciation instantly generates peace " - it is a cardinal

principle

> of Gita (12:12)- this verse was also referred by Mike.

>

> Here I have referred only " desire for happiness " not

the " happiness "

> itself. By relinquishing desire, the happiness does not stop

coming.

> Desire has no co-relation with actual happiness. But " desire for

> happiness " has direct and definite corelation with sorrow.

> Nothing else it can produce except sorrow. If happiness is to come

> in your life, it will come even without your desiring for it.

> JUST AS: Fever comes in the body even without desiring for it.

> SIMILARLY: Happiness also comes even without desiring for it.

> Moreover cessation of desire instantly brings peace unto you.

Where

> is happiness without peace?

> (Ashantasya kutah sukham)

>

> This mind in fact does not do anything except creating pains for

> you. It DESIRES ! And It CHANGES also ! It turns you from

> being " sahaj sukhraasi " (happy by your very form, naturally and

> obviously happy, self proved happiness) to a mere stupid - when

you

> succumb to desires created by your mind ! Sorrow is not in the

> world, it is in your desire to get pleasure !

>

> JUST AS : One lady did not get a meal today. Another lady observed

a

> fast today. Both have an empty stomach. Physical state of both is

> same. But the former is sorrowful and the latter is not sorrowful.

> Why? Because the former lady had " desire for food " , the latter

> willfully did not desire food. Thus sorrow lies ONLY in " desire

for

> happiness " .

>

> No pleasure or sorrow exists outside the mind - in the first part

> of the COMPROMISE - in the external situations or circumstances..

> Outside in the world there is only " activity " happening in

> the " matter " . Nothing more, nothing less. Our " me " and " mineness "

> created by ego and mind with those activities and matters are only

> producing pains and pleasures for us only and for no body else.

>

> The pain that your mind creates is always some form of non-

> acceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to WHAT IS AT

> PRESENT. On the level of thought, the resistance is some form of

> judgement. On the emotional level - it is negativity.

>

> Your mind is the sole cause of your sorrows. It needs a factor

> called " time " to function. " Past " and " future " are " times " and

hence

> operational areas of your mind. All negativity is caused by an

> accumulation of time and denial of present. Unease, anxiety,

> tension, stress, worry, fear, are caused by too much " future " .

(And

> not enough present). Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances,

sadness,

> bitterness and non-forgiveness are caused by too much of " past "

(and

> not enough present).

>

> Mind can only travel either in the past or in future ! THERE IS NO

> ROLE OF MIND IN THE PRESENT. Both past and future do not exist at

> present. Your mind has created them to inflict pains unto itself

> only. Since you have identified yourself with the mind, you are

> experiencing the pain unnecessarily.

>

> Hence ....... First accept the " present " and then act.

>

> Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had

chosen

> it or as if it is sent for you by your Father - Paramatma. Always

> work with it and not against it - cosidering it to be your friend

> and not enemy. This will miraculously change/transform your life.

>

> We all try to change the circumstances to suit our mind, intellect

> and ego. We forget that this world is like a dog's curly tail.

> Millions have tried in the past to straighten it, none succeeded.

> Your " world " is in your " mind " . Let it loiter like a dog ! Let it

> change ! Don't try to control your mind at all. You are not

> independent in that.

>

> Simply- CHANGE YOURSELF ! You are independent in that.

>

> What is that change? Stop identifying yourself with your mind. You

> are master of your mind. You can remain without your mind, but

your

> mind can not remain without you ! Just ignore what ever comes

into

> your mind. Your mind has capacity only to travel in past or in

> future. Both do not exist. Throw away all remembrances of past and

> fears of future. Remain established in the Self, in the present

and

> enjoy living this moment as a witness and spend this moment in

> remembering Paramatma, in doing your duties and in doing

desireless

> karmas.

>

> You be fearless, you be worriless, your mind will have to obey

you !

> You will be instantly peaceful - GUARANTEED ! Nothing else you

need

> to do!

>

> In the concluding article tomorrow, we will deal with question No

3-

> with those who hurt others.

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

>

>

> -

> I'm surprised you used a word such as believers as according to my

> understanding it is a very non-hindu term. I'm a hindu and as

such

> am not interested in belief per se, primarily because it is a

> statement of uncertainty and brings in notions of faith etc.

>

> Yes life etc. is a learning opportunity, and according to my

> understanding in Hinduism, there are no chosen ones (because

belief

> implies religious discrimination on behalf of the creator). This

is

> a very important point. Just because you believe in " Santoshi Ma "

> does not mean you are saved. As Hindus, we do not believe

> in " salvation " , but " liberation " which are very different, one is

a

> passive process requiring a messianic character and the other your

> own volition and action.

>

> Why should bad things not happen to those so called believers

> anyway? Believers tend towards spiritual arrogance of the worst

> kind. I am better because I believe in blahdy blah, who cares what

> you believe in? As a hindu i am totally areligious.

>

> Hinduism teaches us karma i.e. action, watch your actions and the

> rest will take care of itself, and dharma, be yourself.

>

> Ravi

> (Ravi Bakhsi)

> -----------------------------

>

> Dear Sir,

>

> Please explain the below which is the arguement of my friend while

> forwarding " Why do Bad things happen to Beievers?

>

> How to make him understand? Please help me out? I am sure Lord

> Krishna will definitely answer all his questions. Thanks ..

>

> with regards

> sampathkumar

>

> --- On Sun, 20/7/08, SRINI <...rs wrote:

>

> SRINI

> Re: Fw: Re: Why do Bad Things happen to

> Believers ? Is Life a Compromise ?

> sampathkumar

>

> This is nothing new. It is based upon the presumption of previous

> birth and sins in that birth. I am very well aware of this defense

> for several decades now. There are many contradictions in

> metaphysics and devotion that people switch from one to another

> conveniently. Greeks had labeled this kind of logic as sophistry.

>

> I don't care about what happens to me after I die. If I had sinned

> and been punished in hell in several of my previous births I just

> dont know abt it now, so why should I worry about hell and future

> births?

>

> Please argue if you can

>

> Thanx and regards,

>

> ns

> (n SRINIvasan)

>

>

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > This world ( human life form) is not meant to be a place for

> > enjoyment at all. Nor is it a place for suffering. Heaven and

hell

> > are the places for the enjoyment and suffering respectively, not

> the

> > human beings in this world. It is also not a place which is

meant

> > for both pleasures and pains i.e. for mixed circumstances.

Species

> > such as animals, birds etc. are the places where you can

> experience

> > mixed circumstances, not human beings. Human beings have to

rise

> > above the dualities of pleasure and pain, respect and insult,

> gains

> > and losses, fame and ill fame etc.

> >

> > For a human being this world is like an examination hall. You

can

> > not complain that the question was tough. This world for a human

> > being is like a laboratory of Mother Nature. Here you are seen,

> > vetted, examined, weighed, measured, and ....... Put into the

> > fire ..... Straightened out...... and cleaned, washed thoroughly

> and

> > purified !

> >

> > JUST AS : A loving mother first thoroughly cleans her child,

gives

> > the child a bath, puts talcum powder on him, grooms and dresses

> him

> > nicely, puts a " kaajal teeka " on the child's forehead and only

> > thereafter gives the child into the waiting hands of his

father.

> > SIMILARLY: The Mother Nature ( this world) cleans and purifies

all

> > of us, makes us beautiful and then only places us in the hands

of

> > our father- Paramatma.

> >

> > JUST AS : When a child soiled in mud and dirty and mother

decides

> to

> > clean him, bathes him, the child cries; tries to escape but the

> > mother catches him firmly. Sometimes the child suffers, dislikes

> and

> > does not want cold water - but the mother does not relent.

Because

> > the mother knows that after taking bath the child himself would

> feel

> > better. SIMILARLY: The Paramatma washes our eyes with tears till

> > they are clean enough to behold the reality. He does not like

dirt

> > on His children. After every calamity/pain , there certainly

> emerges

> > a purity in the heart.

> >

> > JUST AS : When a child gets sick, you take him to a doctor.

Doctor

> > readies the injection .... and the child cries. You " know " why

the

> > child is crying. You are " powerful " also (you can say to Doctor

> not

> > to give injection). You are " kind " also(after all you are his

> > father). But you just hold the crying child firmly and allow

the

> > Doctor to give injection. Why? Because you have long term

welfare

> of

> > the child in vision. SIMILARLY: Inspite of Paramatma

> > being " sarvagya " (all knowing) ; " sarvasamartha " (all

powerful) ,

> > and " paramdayaalu " (the kindest), He sometimes let's you suffer.

> He

> > has your long term welfare in vision.

> >

> > JUST AS: A child is playing with baloon. When the ballon bursts,

> he

> > starts crying. But mother and elders do not cry. They know

nothing

> > could have happened to the baloon except bursting! SIMILARLY:

When

> > adverse circumstances are faced, we start crying. But wise

people

> do

> > not. They know that pleasure and pain are two sides of same coin

> > only. Good and bad situations keep coming and going. What else

can

> > happen to perishables, temporaries or momentary elements? All

> > worldly things, incidences, situations are " baloons " only !

> >

> > JUST AS: When somebody gets unreasonable with child, he will

come

> > running to the mother and complain. But the same child when he

> goes

> > to the school and teacher punishes him (sometimes the students

are

> > asked to stand on chair, sometimes slapped also, some times they

> are

> > put in isolation) - does he complain to mother? No - a good

child

> > will not do that! He understands! SIMILARLY : We being elders

> > should not complain about injustices flowing from the Paramatma.

> Do

> > we understand?

> >

> > JUST AS: Some children are playing in the compound of the house

> and

> > a particular mother is watching them playing. If the children

are

> > well-behaved and if that particular mother becomes happy and if

> she

> > decides to reward, she will distribute chocolates to all the

> > children, in most of the cases her child will get the chocolate

> > last. But if the children are not well-behaved, they are

fighting

> > and that particular mother gets angry, she will not slap all the

> > children, she will punish her child only - because that child is

> > most dear to her. SIMILARLY: Adverse circumstances are sent by

> > Paramatma to that child who is the most dear to Him.

> >

> > So Pinkyji - What should you do? Consider the following:-

> >

> > JUST AS : Merely by crying, mother comes running to the child.

> > SIMILARLY: Merely by innocent prayer the Paramatma will come

> running

> > for you. Have " child like " faith in Him. The only power you have

> is

> > praying out of a feeling of powerlessness and helplessness

(praying

> > out of helplessness is called " surrender " ) and Paramatma

responds

> > always. He never, never fails in that. After surrendering you

> > become fearless (nirbhay), griefless (nisshok),

> carefree/worriless

> > (nishcinta) and doubtless (nissandeha) and start seeing the

world

> as

> > a witness. Never forget you are daughter of the King of all the

> > Kings- Paramatma !

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > Vyas N B

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

> > >

> > > The benevolence of Bhagwan on each and every Jiva is the same.

> To

> > > Him every Jivaatmaa (embodied soul) is equal (Gita 9.29). Can

> > there

> > > be anyone else in the universe who can keep an account of all

> the

> > > karmas (actions) of each and every second of each and every

Jiva

> > of

> > > all its births since eternity, without pause? Only He does

(Gita

> > > 3.22-24). And according to the deeds (karmas) of the Jivatma

> done

> > in

> > > its various forms and births, He allocates appropriately the

> next

> > > womb after the death. Thus, although a new born does not do

any

> > ill

> > > deeds, he/she has to bear the fruits of the past actions of

the

> > > previous billions of births as prarabdha (destiny) from the

> > > accumulated actions (sanchita karma) which are now fructifying

> in

> > > the present birth (Gita 13.21). However He is not responsible

> for

> > > the fruits of any good or bad actions of the Jivas, but the

Jiva

> > > himself is. He is only imparting judiciously the fruits

> according

> > to

> > > His books. Thus if any one has to bear sorrow, pain or

pleasure,

> > no

> > > matter for what reason, it is indeed destined to be so. It is

> > wrong

> > > to believe that if we have not done any vikarma (bad actions)

in

> > > this birth thus far, we will never experience sorrow. If the

> > > prarabdh has destined so, yes we may not, but prarabdh may

also

> > have

> > > something else in store for us. It is hardly to do anything

with

> > > believing in a scripture or not. Gita therefore teaches us to

be

> > > equanimous in sorrow or in joy.

> > >

> > > I hope it would partly answer Ranganathanji's query and

> alleviate

> > > some pain.

> > >

> > > Regards.

> > >

> > > K.N. Sharma

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > Jai Shri Krishna,

> > >

> > > Human birth has been considered to be very rare, which has

been

> > > given to us due to sheer grace of Parmaatma. Like our body,

all

> > > other things, situations and circumstances are also received

by

> us

> > > due to His grace only.

> > >

> > > Those who wish to derive pleasure out of worldly things

(Bhogi)

> > > consider situations as favourable (Anukool) and unfavourable

> > > (Pratikool), however those desiring to realize Parmaatma

believe

> > > that favourable, unfavourable or mixed situations are all

> received

> > > due to grace of Parmaatma only for facilitating His

realisation.

> > >

> > > Actually an unfavourable situation is important means in

> realizing

> > > Parmaatma. In a favourable situation there are all

possibilities

> > of

> > > getting attracted to the world. For a spiritual aspirant

> (Sadhak)

> > > only two things are important – (a) to detach from the world

and

> > (b)

> > > to move towards Parmaatma.

> > >

> > > A mother is not disgraceful while loving or punishing her

child.

> > Out

> > > of love, she may distribute sweets to all the children playing

> > with

> > > her child, but if all the children misbehave, she will not

> punish

> > > all of them but only HER OWN child. Similarly, Parmaatma sends

> > > favourable situations to everyone, but unfavourable situations

> > only

> > > to those on whom he wants to shower His special grace (Kripa).

> > > Unfavourable situatuions clean us of our sins. Many realized

> souls

> > > such as Mira Bai, Surdaas Ji, Narsi Mehta, Gyaneshwar, Tukaram

> > etc.

> > > flourished in unfavourable situations only.

> > >

> > > When a child is playing and is happy then the mother ignores

> him.

> > > But if the child is sad or crying then mother gives him

special

> > care

> > > and attention. Similarly, Parmaatma gives us special care and

> > > attention when we are faced with unfavourable situations. Just

> as

> > we

> > > feel like assisting those who are needy or deprived, similarly

> > > Parmaatma also feels like assisting those who encounter

> > difficulties.

> > >

> > > If we are careful in difficulties then we progress rapidly on

> the

> > > spiritual path, but if we start crying then we won't be able

to

> > > progress.

> > >

> > > Imagine a situation, one boy was six years old when his

parents

> > > died, now he is thirty years old. There is another boy who is

> also

> > > thirty years old now but whose parents, brothers and

> grandparents

> > > are alive. Who will be smarter between these two boys –

> obviously

> > > the one whose parents died while he was very young, because

the

> > kind

> > > of progress we make in difficulties is not possible when

> > everything

> > > is fine.

> > >

> > > Therefore, a Sadhak should feel EXTREMELY HAPPY, if there are

> > > difficult situations. Kunti (mother of Arjun) knew this fact

and

> > > therefore she asked Parmaatma to send unfavourable situations

in

> > her

> > > life, so that she never forgets Him.

> > >

> > > Rajendra J. Bohra

> > >

> > > Narayana Narayana

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> -

> > > The question 'why bad things happen to believers' forms a part

> of

> > a

> > > bigger 2 questions that are the cause of the misery of all

human

> > > beings. These are: " Why me " and " Why not me " . It is common

> > > phenomenon arising out of comparisons. When I loose my job

the

> > > first reaction is Why me? Similarly if my neighbor wins a

> lottery

> > > ticket I feel Why not me? Add to this a presumption that a

> > believer

> > > should get better grace from the Lord than the non- believer.

> As

> > > you can see all these questions and turmoil in the mind is due

> to

> > > our subjective assessment. I will give a few examples in

nature

> > > when opposite questions were asked the person is happy. Then

we

> > > proceed to understand the Gita view mentioned in several

> places.

> > >

> > > 1. When a child falls suddenly ill a mother ask 'why this poor

> > child

> > > who does not know how to overcome this illness Why not me who

> can

> > > take it easily? See how peaceful she feels and helps the

child

> to

> > > get over with this attitude. Draw your own conclusion

> > > 2. Kunti the mother of Pandavas had problems all through her

> life

> > > starting from the birth of Karna. Without going into detail

of

> > all

> > > her problems, when Krishna asks her 'What can I do to help you

> my

> > > dear aunt?' her reply was give me more troubles so that I

will

> > > remember you always and never forget.

> > >

> > > Now coming to the reality of things: That a believer or even a

> > good

> > > person should not be subjected to bad things makes the

> assumption

> > > that God is discriminating between good and bad people in

> > bestowing

> > > His Grace. This assumption can be proven to be wrong by the

> > simple

> > > example of the SUN we see everyday. He gives light, heat,

food

> > and

> > > everything that nourishes the animate and inanimate creation.

> Gita

> > > explains clearly, that without him there is no creation nor

> > > sustenance. He does not discriminate good people and bad

> people;

> > > good places and bad places to shine on. If we project this

> > example

> > > one can see that God does not discriminate anybody. He Gives

> and

> > > Gives freely. Some times we do not know how to receive His

> Grace

> > > and that is not His fault. For example look at the beautiful

> > > message of Gita that has answers to every question and how we

do

> > not

> > > take time to read and understand.

> > >

> > > Going further on the theory of Karma propounded in Gita, no

one

> > can

> > > escape the ripened fruits of our past actions in this and

> > previous

> > > lives. By constant practice of Bhakti or acquiring Jnana one

can

> > > eliminate those past Karmas that have not ripened and also

> avoid

> > > the similarly the future ripening of the the present actions.

> > Thus

> > > Gita has profound answers to the above question. Once we

read,

> > > understand and appreciate its message the question why bad

> things

> > to

> > > believers does not arise at all.

> > >

> > > An Aspirant trying to understand the Gita message

> > >

> > > (B. Vempaty)

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > -Shree Hari-

> > > >

> > > > First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you have

> > > > contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from

our

> > > sadhak

> > > > brethren, (much more learned than I).

> > > >

> > > > Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20, and

> > found

> > > it

> > > > comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

> > > > Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater joy

a

> > > person

> > > > can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you

want

> > the

> > > > most?

> > > > There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't give

up

> > > things

> > > > that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain

joy

> > in

> > > the

> > > > divine.

> > > > The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of

the

> > ego.

> > > > Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any

> more,GOD

> > > will

> > > > look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when

we

> > feel

> > > we

> > > > are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that

> > people

> > > > that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they

> are

> > > in a

> > > > very dark place.

> > > >

> > > > With Respect and Divine Love,

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > > (Mike Keenor)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> -

> > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> > > >

> > > > It may not be realized at first, but the proper question is

> > > not " why

> > > > do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen,

what

> > > should

> > > > be my action? "

> > > >

> > > > Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept whatever

> has

> > > > happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may

> > ask: " did

> > > I

> > > > do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best of

> > > ability

> > > > God gave me and acted fairly? "

> > > >

> > > > If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have done

> all

> > > that

> > > > you could have done, the result is not in your hand except

to

> > > accept

> > > > and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for

> what

> > > > happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first

> > before

> > > > prompting you to act to correct the results if and when

> needed.

> > > Now

> > > > isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it

> doesn't

> > > > matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of

what

> > was

> > > > perceived as bad result?

> > > >

> > > > If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then there

is

> a

> > > > lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now.

Life

> > is

> > > > not a compromise for simply accepting the results of

> injustice,

> > > but

> > > > is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself

only

> > > after

> > > > carefully determining what happened was unjustice! Actions

> that

> > > > follow out of understanding and love and not originate from

> > > personal

> > > > desires and fear can never be bad in time.

> > > >

> > > > In time you will see benefit/justice for all including you,

> even

> > > if

> > > > what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of

giving

> > > > results is to take everyone' s interest including yours,

> because

> > > > yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in the

> > moment

> > > > to accomplish the result.

> > > >

> > > > One has to understand all abilities are given to us by God.

> When

> > > we

> > > > develop into a decent human being acquiring education,

skills

> > etc,

> > > > the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and

> necessary

> > > > environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family

members

> > and

> > > > friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't

> > create

> > > > them only through our personal efforts. We can never act

> > properly

> > > by

> > > > isolating ourselves.

> > > >

> > > > Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by

> God,

> > > > sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best

> placed.

> > > Thus

> > > > actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to

be

> > > > understood thoroughly, then only we can do good acts/karmas.

> > > >

> > > > Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can not

> only

> > > > accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address

them

> > > with

> > > > fortitude. At some point down the road we can even relieve

> God

> > > from

> > > > giving us only good results, rather make good of everything

> that

> > > > happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that

> whatever

> > > > happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one at

> the

> > > > time one needed.

> > > >

> > > > Namaskars.....Pratap

> > > > (Pratap Bhatt)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> > > > Dear Ji,

> > > >

> > > > This question is related to karma.

> > > >

> > > > We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad

activities

> > > such

> > > > as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb

> 2002,

> > > who

> > > > died May 2002.

> > > >

> > > > The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and

> after

> > > > investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer stage

> IV

> > > > (malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and my

> wife

> > > > don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

> > > >

> > > > as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it right.

> The

> > > 90

> > > > days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment, for

> him

> > to

> > > > stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

> > > >

> > > > The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or food

> > taken

> > > > during pregnancy.

> > > >

> > > > When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was

> > > mentioned

> > > > that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

> > > >

> > > > Can you explain about this ?

> > > >

> > > > This should not happen to any kind of living being.

> > > >

> > > > srihari

> > > >

> > > > (Ranganathan Srihari)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but there

> are

> > > few

> > > > > questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own.

May

> > be

> > > you

> > > > > can help me.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his devotees

> > > > > (believers); he always protects them from injustice. Then

> why

> > do

> > > > > bad things happen to them ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Is compromise something God created, should we

give

> > up

> > > on

> > > > > things that make us happy but bring injustice and sadness

in

> > our

> > > > > life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise

> whiling

> > > away

> > > > > our life ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated

> > unfairly

> > > > > but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in

> > another's

> > > > hand?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank You

> > > > >

> > > > > Pinky

> > > > > (Grishma Patel)

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > -

> > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > > >

> > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > > The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

> > doubts

> > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the

questions

> > and

> > > > the

> > > > > responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines

for

> > > Gita-

> > > > > Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent to

> you.

> > > > >

> > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> > > > >

> > > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and clarifying

any

> > > > > doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji

will

> be

> > > > > posted in the future.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only

one

> > at a

> > > > > time.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at

> least

> > > once

> > > > > in the question.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the

> practical

> > > > > difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics around,

> > where

> > > is

> > > > > the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in

the

> > > > > teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji

or

> > other

> > > > > Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. General questions will not be considered for future

> posting.

> > > > > e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > > > > responses which further clarify the understanding of

Gitaji,

> > > will

> > > > be

> > > > > posted.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged -

 

> at

> > > > least

> > > > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote

> Gitaji

> > or

> > > > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > respecting

> > > > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should

> exceed

> > say

> > > > > one page at the most (500 words or so).

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

to

> > the

> > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

> shlokas

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > > > organizations.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book

or

> > > author

> > > > > (but not links to other sites).

> > > > >

> > > > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

> > phone

> > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > individual

> > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > >

> > > > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will

> be

> > > > posted

> > > > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking

> Shrimad

> > > > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > > > >

> > > > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting,

if

> > > content

> > > > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> > > question

> > > > > being asked.

> > > > >

> > > > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

> > youth,

> > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use

of

> > only

> > > > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with

Sanskrit

> > > > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Krishna,

 

Re: Pinkyji's query

 

It has been said by great sages that " Chaah miti chinta miti manwa

beperwaah, Jinke kuch nahin chaahiye so shahan pati shah " .

 

It means one who has relinquished all his desires, becomes free from

all tensions and relaxed. One who does not desire anything, is the

king of all the kings.

 

Narayana Narayana

Rajendra J Bohra

 

 

Hari Om

 

ON POWER OF SURRENDER/ DESIRELESSNESS

 

JUST AS : In a marital life (particularly in India) – wife starts

with weakness – surrender and becomes powerful in the end. Husband

starts with " power " and becomes weak in the end. The biggest inner

fear which every husband has when he becomes old (say 50 years old)

is that his wife should not die. A wife without husband can take

care of children and home, but can a husband take care of even

himself without wife? In the beginning of life, all votes are with

husband (of the in laws). Later on all votes are with wife (of her

own children. In laws departed or become too old to vote !)

SIMILARLY: When you surrender to Paramatma you are weak. But later

on, Prabhu Himself starts running after you. Why ? Because you have

become carefree / worriless the moment you surrender.

 

HOW ? Consider the following:

 

JUST AS : A mother has 4 children and a bucket of apples. One child

cries and wants apple. She gives him. Second child comes and demands

apple. He too gets the apple. Third child, neither cries nor demands

the apple, he just keeps looking at the apple and the mother. He

also gets the apple. The fourth one , neither cries, nor demands,

nor looks at the apple , nor at the mother and keeps playing and

playing. Will he remain hungry ? No ! Mother will chase him, will

run after him to give him apple ! SIMILARLY: In the regime of

Paramatma , there are 4 types of devotees (Gita 7:16) . One – Aarta

( sorrowful)- who cries.. Two- Artharthi ( selfish) – who demands.

Three Jigyaasu ( Curious) – who watches . Four – Gyaani (Learned) –

who plays carelessly, worrylessly, fearlessly and doubtlessly.

Surrendered devotee is a Gyaani (Learned) devotee of Paramatma.(

Gita 7:16). Because one who surrenders neither cries, nor demands,

nor expects, he just becomes " MAST " (carefree). Paramatma chases him

for fulfilling his requirements.

 

JUST AS : For a completely dependent child, mother herself brings

the thing which are necessary – without any demand from the child.

If an infant gets unwell the medicine is taken by the mother.

SIMILARLY: Paramatma takes the responsibilities of that devotee who

is wholly dependent upon Him.

 

JUST AS: When a girl leaves her parents' home upon marriage, she

need not take food grains, provisions, bread, butter, vegetables etc

with her to her new home (her husband's home). She knows the one who

is taking her, will also provide her with meals. She goes to her

husband's home unconditionally. SIMILARLY: When we surrender we

need not worry as to how hence forth the life will move. We should

surrender unconditionally.

 

HOW SURRENDERED DEVOTEE DEALS WITH EVILNESS:

 

JUST AS : A great wife handles a " bad " husband with extra ordinary

skills. She starts marital life with seeking shelter and protection

out of over all lacking in power (surrender), and that same

helplessness becomes her power. She develops an immunity with

individual characteristics of her husband. She has nothing to do

with the fact that whether her husband is a gambler, or drunkard, or

rich or poor, kind or cruel, angry or calm. She knows just one

thing – " I am my husband's " . In olden days, she would see her

Paramatma in her husband. She would not DESIRE any thing from

herself for a variety of reasons. Even otherwise what can a bad

husband give to her ? other than sting, like a scorpion ! In olden

days, if husband was very bad – she viewed it a blessing in disguise

for her ! That would naturally curb her desires. She very quickly

attained desirelessness. Nothing generates peace and happiness with

more certainty than when one is in the state of " desirelessness " .

She starts desiring only to do her duties, to serve ! She enters

involuntarily, automatically in Karma Yoga mode. She becomes happy

in herself. She loves to serve him, and expects nothing in return.

She never enforces herself upon him. NOW who can steal her

happiness ? SIMILARLY : A devotee deals with the vicissitudes of

life with extra ordinary skills. A " Jnana Yogi " has nothing to do

with the individual characteristics of the world. He is happy within

himself. A Bhakti Yogi sees Paramatma every where in the world. A

karma yogi keeps on serving the world without expecting anything in

return. A great wife is 3 in 1.

 

If some body is bad with a devotee of Paramatma , Law of Karma will

definitely punish him, but the devotee never wishes that.

 

JUST AS : While taking bath if we see ourselves in the mirror with

soap scattered over the face, we would appear very ugly. But inside

our heart we do not get perturbed. We know as soon as water is

poured, the face will become clean. SIMILARLY: Any human being that

appears bad to us - angry, mean, selfish, cruel or evil etc . But

inside our heart we should have a belief that he is the part of same

Paramatma who is also residing in us. When our own " raag " (likings)

or " dvesha " ( dislikings) vanish, the same person will start looking

pure to us!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

---

-Shree Hari-

 

I did not read Ranganathan Srihari's comment before posting my

original post. But I will past in some comments made by a great Sufi,

and explain them through the lens of my own experience:

 

'Indeed one is never so strong as one is broken. When you grasp that

mystery , then you will be able to see how what seemed like loss or

a defeat is instead a victory , and how you are broken is where you

are whole.'(Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan).

 

It seems to me that Lord Krishna values meditation, this has been my

main path, as it transcends all dogmas.

Now if you are able to meditate deeply, just ask Krishna, the Divine

Present, (just as a deep thought no verbalizing) for nothing more

than understanding, NOT why me? Remember you are not alone, many have

suffered great anguish, and the Divine permeates all.

And if you are so blessed, you may see what has happened in a

different light, you will never be quite the same again, you may not

think it's you, but it is, you will have touched the compassion

within.

 

You will have become kin to all those who suffered, and in you

compassion, barriers that separates you from others will start to

break down.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike.

(Mike Keenor)

 

 

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> What can one do when treated unfairly? I immensely liked Mike's

> statement - It is so easy to reach for your sword when we feel we

> are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand that

people

> that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for they are

in

> a dark place " . It is a statement emanating out of soul and out of

> one's direct experience.. shared selflessly for benefit of sadhaks.

>

> In previous replies I advised " surrender " to Paramatma and

> renouncing the desire for happiness. The moment any one does that

> the " sword " comes into his hands - believe me on that, if you can

> believe.. He becomes powerful. Because it is a law, that action

can

> arise only out of inaction. Power arises out of weakness

> (surrender). With relinquishment of desire, very roots of sorrow

get

> eliminated. So there are apples (or laddoos) in both the hands.

You

> instantly become fearless, worriless, doubtless and griefless upon

> surrender. You have additional power now out of desirelessness.

> Also - nothing now can steal your happiness ! Believe me on that !.

>

> While you surrender out of weakness, but after surrender, you

become

> fearless, griefless etc. naturally. In due course, you become so

> powerful that even Paramatma Himself starts running after you.

Gopis

> of Brij used to make Lord Krishna dance for a cup of butter milk !

> You become powerful like that. Have faith and trust in your father!

>

> So the sword comes into your hands to deal with those who were

> unjust to you. Now what you should do? Now think.

>

> 1. First, who can cause pleasure or pains to others? No body is

> capable of doing that! It has been proved to you in yesterday's

> reply that it is your mind which creates pains for you. Now where

is

> pain, once you have stopped thinking about " past " and " future " and

> have started living in the present doing desireless karmas and

your

> duty. Tell me honestly, where is pain now?

>

> 2. If other is bad to us, then this badness has come as a visitor

to

> him, it is not natural to him. He is as stainless fundamentally as

> you are. Many times we too become unjust, but does that make us

bad?

>

> 3. When somebody does bad to us then our old sins get squared off

> and we become pure. We owe in fact a compliment or gratitude to

> him ! Free of cost, without any efforts from our side, he came, he

> destroyed our sins, and he purified us and now we have the sword

in

> our hands. If thanks are not due to him, then to whom ? There can

> not be a greater friend of a man than that person who hurts you.

>

> 4. What an immense contribution he has made to you ! How easily he

> made you throw away desire for happiness itself? How difficult it

is

> otherwise ? Is it possible to do so when circumstances are good ?

> No - believe me on this!

>

> 5. Look how your svabhav (Your habits and attitudes) and how the

> virtues of flexibilty, and tolerance in you have changed for

good ?

> What is austerity (tapa)? To tolerate adversities laughingly!

> Paramatma told Arjuna in the beginning of Gita itself - " taans

> titikhsva Bharat " (O Arjuna, Forebear that ! ). What else is

> austerity ? How big are its results ? To whom you should thank for

> the same ? How pure we have become ?

>

> 6. Such circumstances are sent by Paramatma to us to draw us

towards

> Him, to test whether we have acquired equanimity or not.

>

> 7. You get good company, satsanga and a lot of good things without

> your even initially realising. It is a law that if some one does

bad

> to some good person, divine force presents before him well

wishers /

> help invariably. Look around you now, you will find many good

people

> wishing your welfare! Thanks are due to whom for that ?

>

> 8. That person in the past was capable of doing bad to us only

> because we were weak - we had fear of losing something which we

> considered precious, and that weakness within us made us tolerate

> injustice. Now when you are desireless, not expecting anything,

> fearless, worriless, Daughter of the Kings of all Kings, what harm

> can any body cause you ? What can anybody snatch away from you

when

> you don't need anything ?

>

> 9. That poor fellow, on one hand, he destroyed your past sins and

> made you pure, and helped you in the aforesaid ways, on other

hand,

> he has incurred for himself a wrath of nature also.. Law of Karma

> which will not spare him, come what may!

>

> Now does that person not deserve your gratitude and compassion?

Mike

> was right. Why then you should use sword at all?

>

> In the last article tomorrow we will conclude with some direct

> experiences of all of us on the subject - experiences drawn from

> life itself !

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas, N B

> -

>

> Namaste,

> A short story I have heard, from a sadhu....gives an

> interesting perspective on suffering.

> A king once had a minister who went everywhere with him.

> Whenever there was any situation, favorable or unfavorable, the

> minister would say, " Krsna's mercy " . One day, the king was

> hunting, and by accident he severed his thumb from his hand. The

> minister said, " Krsna's mercy " . At this the king was enraged. He

> put the minister in prison, thinking, " How dare he refer to my

> suffering as mercy? " The minister responded with the

usual, " Krsna's

> mercy " . The next day, the king was in the forest, walking alone.

A

> group of dacoits who wanted to make an offering of a human being

to

> goddess Kali saw him, and decided that this king would be a good

> offering. They threw the king in the water, but seeing the blood

> gushing forth from his severed thumb, came to know of the missing

> thumb, and decided that it would be inappropriate to offer a

> sacrifice with only nine fingers. The king then truly understood

> that his cutting off his thumb was indeed Krsna's mercy. When he

> went and happily released the minister, he explained to him how

> yes, indeed, the wound was Krsna's mercy, but then asked, " But why

> did you say it was Krsna's mercy when I threw you into prison? "

> The minister said, " If I hadn't been in prison, where would I have

> been? Walking with you......and I have TEN fingers! "

>

> It isn't just a funny story....we don't always know the reason

> behind why different things happen. However, if we believe in

our

> heart that everything is meant to bring us closer to the Lord, we

> loose our sense of frustration and fury. Who do we truly hold

dear,

> the living entities who have taken birth from our wombs, or the

> Supreme Lord? His taking away from us a dear one is a test.

> How many tears do we cry because we are not in the company of our

> Supreme Friend? Do we believe Ch 18:61.... " The Supreme Lord is

> situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the

> wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine,

> made of the material energy. " ? Do we follow Ch 18:57 " In all

> activities just depend upon Me and work always under My protection

> In such devotional service, be fully conscious of Me. " All

> the events that happen in our life are a measuring stick to show

us

> how much we actually have faith in our Lord's presence....and

until

> these various traumas happen, we truly have no idea how weak or

> strong our faith is. Truly, many persons walk around thinking

> themselves completely surrendered and glorious bhaktas, until some

> disaster falls. Then, they see their true selves.

>

> Kindly forgive me if these words cause any pain to anyone; I am

not

> a harsh person...as a mother of six and wife with many moments of

> grief to contend with. I believe in my heart, we have lessons to

> learn, and that our place as a student, a disciple, a servant, is

> not to demand Radha and Krsna, " TELL ME WHY! EXPLAIN YOURSELF! "

> Rather, to look within and pray.

>

> Mahalaksmi Dasi

>

> -

-

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > Your first question was replied yesterday. Today the second

> > question. There is no compromise which you should make.

Compromise

> > between whom? One party is external situation and circumstances.

> Who

> > is the other party? The other party, in fact is Your Mind ! You

> are

> > not the party at all ! You are not your mind ! You are

independent

> > of your mind !

> >

> > I fully agree with Mike that pain and pleasure in life depend

upon

> > your mind set only. This world experienced by the individual

rises

> > by the desire of the mind and vanishes by the absence of desire

in

> > that mind. If Pinkyji can just relinquish the " desire for

> > happiness " - she will be peaceful at that moment itself. "

Every

> > renunciation instantly generates peace " - it is a cardinal

> principle

> > of Gita (12:12)- this verse was also referred by Mike.

> >

> > Here I have referred only " desire for happiness " not

> the " happiness "

> > itself. By relinquishing desire, the happiness does not stop

> coming.

> > Desire has no co-relation with actual happiness. But " desire for

> > happiness " has direct and definite corelation with sorrow.

> > Nothing else it can produce except sorrow. If happiness is to

come

> > in your life, it will come even without your desiring for it.

> > JUST AS: Fever comes in the body even without desiring for it.

> > SIMILARLY: Happiness also comes even without desiring for it.

> > Moreover cessation of desire instantly brings peace unto you.

> Where

> > is happiness without peace?

> > (Ashantasya kutah sukham)

> >

> > This mind in fact does not do anything except creating pains for

> > you. It DESIRES ! And It CHANGES also ! It turns you from

> > being " sahaj sukhraasi " (happy by your very form, naturally and

> > obviously happy, self proved happiness) to a mere stupid - when

> you

> > succumb to desires created by your mind ! Sorrow is not in the

> > world, it is in your desire to get pleasure !

> >

> > JUST AS : One lady did not get a meal today. Another lady

observed

> a

> > fast today. Both have an empty stomach. Physical state of both

is

> > same. But the former is sorrowful and the latter is not

sorrowful.

> > Why? Because the former lady had " desire for food " , the latter

> > willfully did not desire food. Thus sorrow lies ONLY in " desire

> for

> > happiness " .

> >

> > No pleasure or sorrow exists outside the mind - in the first

part

> > of the COMPROMISE - in the external situations or

circumstances..

> > Outside in the world there is only " activity " happening in

> > the " matter " . Nothing more, nothing less. Our " me "

and " mineness "

> > created by ego and mind with those activities and matters are

only

> > producing pains and pleasures for us only and for no body else.

> >

> > The pain that your mind creates is always some form of non-

> > acceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to WHAT IS AT

> > PRESENT. On the level of thought, the resistance is some form of

> > judgement. On the emotional level - it is negativity.

> >

> > Your mind is the sole cause of your sorrows. It needs a factor

> > called " time " to function. " Past " and " future " are " times " and

> hence

> > operational areas of your mind. All negativity is caused by an

> > accumulation of time and denial of present. Unease, anxiety,

> > tension, stress, worry, fear, are caused by too much " future " .

> (And

> > not enough present). Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances,

> sadness,

> > bitterness and non-forgiveness are caused by too much of " past "

> (and

> > not enough present).

> >

> > Mind can only travel either in the past or in future ! THERE IS

NO

> > ROLE OF MIND IN THE PRESENT. Both past and future do not exist

at

> > present. Your mind has created them to inflict pains unto itself

> > only. Since you have identified yourself with the mind, you are

> > experiencing the pain unnecessarily.

> >

> > Hence ....... First accept the " present " and then act.

> >

> > Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had

> chosen

> > it or as if it is sent for you by your Father - Paramatma.

Always

> > work with it and not against it - cosidering it to be your

friend

> > and not enemy. This will miraculously change/transform your life.

> >

> > We all try to change the circumstances to suit our mind,

intellect

> > and ego. We forget that this world is like a dog's curly tail.

> > Millions have tried in the past to straighten it, none

succeeded.

> > Your " world " is in your " mind " . Let it loiter like a dog ! Let

it

> > change ! Don't try to control your mind at all. You are not

> > independent in that.

> >

> > Simply- CHANGE YOURSELF ! You are independent in that.

> >

> > What is that change? Stop identifying yourself with your mind.

You

> > are master of your mind. You can remain without your mind, but

> your

> > mind can not remain without you ! Just ignore what ever comes

> into

> > your mind. Your mind has capacity only to travel in past or in

> > future. Both do not exist. Throw away all remembrances of past

and

> > fears of future. Remain established in the Self, in the present

> and

> > enjoy living this moment as a witness and spend this moment in

> > remembering Paramatma, in doing your duties and in doing

> desireless

> > karmas.

> >

> > You be fearless, you be worriless, your mind will have to obey

> you !

> > You will be instantly peaceful - GUARANTEED ! Nothing else you

> need

> > to do!

> >

> > In the concluding article tomorrow, we will deal with question

No

> 3-

> > with those who hurt others.

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > Vyas N B

> >

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > I'm surprised you used a word such as believers as according to

my

> > understanding it is a very non-hindu term. I'm a hindu and as

> such

> > am not interested in belief per se, primarily because it is a

> > statement of uncertainty and brings in notions of faith etc.

> >

> > Yes life etc. is a learning opportunity, and according to my

> > understanding in Hinduism, there are no chosen ones (because

> belief

> > implies religious discrimination on behalf of the creator). This

> is

> > a very important point. Just because you believe in " Santoshi

Ma "

> > does not mean you are saved. As Hindus, we do not believe

> > in " salvation " , but " liberation " which are very different, one

is

> a

> > passive process requiring a messianic character and the other

your

> > own volition and action.

> >

> > Why should bad things not happen to those so called believers

> > anyway? Believers tend towards spiritual arrogance of the worst

> > kind. I am better because I believe in blahdy blah, who cares

what

> > you believe in? As a hindu i am totally areligious.

> >

> > Hinduism teaches us karma i.e. action, watch your actions and

the

> > rest will take care of itself, and dharma, be yourself.

> >

> > Ravi

> > (Ravi Bakhsi)

> > -----------------------------

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> >

> > Please explain the below which is the arguement of my friend

while

> > forwarding " Why do Bad things happen to Beievers?

> >

> > How to make him understand? Please help me out? I am sure Lord

> > Krishna will definitely answer all his questions. Thanks ..

> >

> > with regards

> > sampathkumar

> >

> > --- On Sun, 20/7/08, SRINI <...rs@> wrote:

> >

> > SRINI

> > Re: Fw: Re: Why do Bad Things happen to

> > Believers ? Is Life a Compromise ?

> > sampathkumar

> >

> > This is nothing new. It is based upon the presumption of

previous

> > birth and sins in that birth. I am very well aware of this

defense

> > for several decades now. There are many contradictions in

> > metaphysics and devotion that people switch from one to another

> > conveniently. Greeks had labeled this kind of logic as

sophistry.

> >

> > I don't care about what happens to me after I die. If I had

sinned

> > and been punished in hell in several of my previous births I

just

> > dont know abt it now, so why should I worry about hell and

future

> > births?

> >

> > Please argue if you can

> >

> > Thanx and regards,

> >

> > ns

> > (n SRINIvasan)

> >

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hari Om

> > >

> > > This world ( human life form) is not meant to be a place for

> > > enjoyment at all. Nor is it a place for suffering. Heaven and

> hell

> > > are the places for the enjoyment and suffering respectively,

not

> > the

> > > human beings in this world. It is also not a place which is

> meant

> > > for both pleasures and pains i.e. for mixed circumstances.

> Species

> > > such as animals, birds etc. are the places where you can

> > experience

> > > mixed circumstances, not human beings. Human beings have to

> rise

> > > above the dualities of pleasure and pain, respect and insult,

> > gains

> > > and losses, fame and ill fame etc.

> > >

> > > For a human being this world is like an examination hall. You

> can

> > > not complain that the question was tough. This world for a

human

> > > being is like a laboratory of Mother Nature. Here you are

seen,

> > > vetted, examined, weighed, measured, and ....... Put into the

> > > fire ..... Straightened out...... and cleaned, washed

thoroughly

> > and

> > > purified !

> > >

> > > JUST AS : A loving mother first thoroughly cleans her child,

> gives

> > > the child a bath, puts talcum powder on him, grooms and

dresses

> > him

> > > nicely, puts a " kaajal teeka " on the child's forehead and only

> > > thereafter gives the child into the waiting hands of his

> father.

> > > SIMILARLY: The Mother Nature ( this world) cleans and purifies

> all

> > > of us, makes us beautiful and then only places us in the

hands

> of

> > > our father- Paramatma.

> > >

> > > JUST AS : When a child soiled in mud and dirty and mother

> decides

> > to

> > > clean him, bathes him, the child cries; tries to escape but

the

> > > mother catches him firmly. Sometimes the child suffers,

dislikes

> > and

> > > does not want cold water - but the mother does not relent.

> Because

> > > the mother knows that after taking bath the child himself

would

> > feel

> > > better. SIMILARLY: The Paramatma washes our eyes with tears

till

> > > they are clean enough to behold the reality. He does not like

> dirt

> > > on His children. After every calamity/pain , there certainly

> > emerges

> > > a purity in the heart.

> > >

> > > JUST AS : When a child gets sick, you take him to a doctor.

> Doctor

> > > readies the injection .... and the child cries. You " know " why

> the

> > > child is crying. You are " powerful " also (you can say to

Doctor

> > not

> > > to give injection). You are " kind " also(after all you are his

> > > father). But you just hold the crying child firmly and allow

> the

> > > Doctor to give injection. Why? Because you have long term

> welfare

> > of

> > > the child in vision. SIMILARLY: Inspite of Paramatma

> > > being " sarvagya " (all knowing) ; " sarvasamartha " (all

> powerful) ,

> > > and " paramdayaalu " (the kindest), He sometimes let's you

suffer.

> > He

> > > has your long term welfare in vision.

> > >

> > > JUST AS: A child is playing with baloon. When the ballon

bursts,

> > he

> > > starts crying. But mother and elders do not cry. They know

> nothing

> > > could have happened to the baloon except bursting! SIMILARLY:

> When

> > > adverse circumstances are faced, we start crying. But wise

> people

> > do

> > > not. They know that pleasure and pain are two sides of same

coin

> > > only. Good and bad situations keep coming and going. What else

> can

> > > happen to perishables, temporaries or momentary elements? All

> > > worldly things, incidences, situations are " baloons " only !

> > >

> > > JUST AS: When somebody gets unreasonable with child, he will

> come

> > > running to the mother and complain. But the same child when he

> > goes

> > > to the school and teacher punishes him (sometimes the students

> are

> > > asked to stand on chair, sometimes slapped also, some times

they

> > are

> > > put in isolation) - does he complain to mother? No - a good

> child

> > > will not do that! He understands! SIMILARLY : We being elders

> > > should not complain about injustices flowing from the

Paramatma.

> > Do

> > > we understand?

> > >

> > > JUST AS: Some children are playing in the compound of the

house

> > and

> > > a particular mother is watching them playing. If the children

> are

> > > well-behaved and if that particular mother becomes happy and

if

> > she

> > > decides to reward, she will distribute chocolates to all the

> > > children, in most of the cases her child will get the

chocolate

> > > last. But if the children are not well-behaved, they are

> fighting

> > > and that particular mother gets angry, she will not slap all

the

> > > children, she will punish her child only - because that child

is

> > > most dear to her. SIMILARLY: Adverse circumstances are sent by

> > > Paramatma to that child who is the most dear to Him.

> > >

> > > So Pinkyji - What should you do? Consider the following:-

> > >

> > > JUST AS : Merely by crying, mother comes running to the child.

> > > SIMILARLY: Merely by innocent prayer the Paramatma will come

> > running

> > > for you. Have " child like " faith in Him. The only power you

have

> > is

> > > praying out of a feeling of powerlessness and helplessness

> (praying

> > > out of helplessness is called " surrender " ) and Paramatma

> responds

> > > always. He never, never fails in that. After surrendering you

> > > become fearless (nirbhay), griefless (nisshok),

> > carefree/worriless

> > > (nishcinta) and doubtless (nissandeha) and start seeing the

> world

> > as

> > > a witness. Never forget you are daughter of the King of all

the

> > > Kings- Paramatma !

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > >

> > > Vyas N B

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> -

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

> > > >

> > > > The benevolence of Bhagwan on each and every Jiva is the

same.

> > To

> > > > Him every Jivaatmaa (embodied soul) is equal (Gita 9.29).

Can

> > > there

> > > > be anyone else in the universe who can keep an account of

all

> > the

> > > > karmas (actions) of each and every second of each and every

> Jiva

> > > of

> > > > all its births since eternity, without pause? Only He does

> (Gita

> > > > 3.22-24). And according to the deeds (karmas) of the Jivatma

> > done

> > > in

> > > > its various forms and births, He allocates appropriately the

> > next

> > > > womb after the death. Thus, although a new born does not do

> any

> > > ill

> > > > deeds, he/she has to bear the fruits of the past actions of

> the

> > > > previous billions of births as prarabdha (destiny) from the

> > > > accumulated actions (sanchita karma) which are now

fructifying

> > in

> > > > the present birth (Gita 13.21). However He is not

responsible

> > for

> > > > the fruits of any good or bad actions of the Jivas, but the

> Jiva

> > > > himself is. He is only imparting judiciously the fruits

> > according

> > > to

> > > > His books. Thus if any one has to bear sorrow, pain or

> pleasure,

> > > no

> > > > matter for what reason, it is indeed destined to be so. It

is

> > > wrong

> > > > to believe that if we have not done any vikarma (bad

actions)

> in

> > > > this birth thus far, we will never experience sorrow. If the

> > > > prarabdh has destined so, yes we may not, but prarabdh may

> also

> > > have

> > > > something else in store for us. It is hardly to do anything

> with

> > > > believing in a scripture or not. Gita therefore teaches us

to

> be

> > > > equanimous in sorrow or in joy.

> > > >

> > > > I hope it would partly answer Ranganathanji's query and

> > alleviate

> > > > some pain.

> > > >

> > > > Regards.

> > > >

> > > > K.N. Sharma

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > > > Jai Shri Krishna,

> > > >

> > > > Human birth has been considered to be very rare, which has

> been

> > > > given to us due to sheer grace of Parmaatma. Like our body,

> all

> > > > other things, situations and circumstances are also received

> by

> > us

> > > > due to His grace only.

> > > >

> > > > Those who wish to derive pleasure out of worldly things

> (Bhogi)

> > > > consider situations as favourable (Anukool) and unfavourable

> > > > (Pratikool), however those desiring to realize Parmaatma

> believe

> > > > that favourable, unfavourable or mixed situations are all

> > received

> > > > due to grace of Parmaatma only for facilitating His

> realisation.

> > > >

> > > > Actually an unfavourable situation is important means in

> > realizing

> > > > Parmaatma. In a favourable situation there are all

> possibilities

> > > of

> > > > getting attracted to the world. For a spiritual aspirant

> > (Sadhak)

> > > > only two things are important – (a) to detach from the world

> and

> > > (b)

> > > > to move towards Parmaatma.

> > > >

> > > > A mother is not disgraceful while loving or punishing her

> child.

> > > Out

> > > > of love, she may distribute sweets to all the children

playing

> > > with

> > > > her child, but if all the children misbehave, she will not

> > punish

> > > > all of them but only HER OWN child. Similarly, Parmaatma

sends

> > > > favourable situations to everyone, but unfavourable

situations

> > > only

> > > > to those on whom he wants to shower His special grace

(Kripa).

> > > > Unfavourable situatuions clean us of our sins. Many realized

> > souls

> > > > such as Mira Bai, Surdaas Ji, Narsi Mehta, Gyaneshwar,

Tukaram

> > > etc.

> > > > flourished in unfavourable situations only.

> > > >

> > > > When a child is playing and is happy then the mother ignores

> > him.

> > > > But if the child is sad or crying then mother gives him

> special

> > > care

> > > > and attention. Similarly, Parmaatma gives us special care

and

> > > > attention when we are faced with unfavourable situations.

Just

> > as

> > > we

> > > > feel like assisting those who are needy or deprived,

similarly

> > > > Parmaatma also feels like assisting those who encounter

> > > difficulties.

> > > >

> > > > If we are careful in difficulties then we progress rapidly

on

> > the

> > > > spiritual path, but if we start crying then we won't be able

> to

> > > > progress.

> > > >

> > > > Imagine a situation, one boy was six years old when his

> parents

> > > > died, now he is thirty years old. There is another boy who

is

> > also

> > > > thirty years old now but whose parents, brothers and

> > grandparents

> > > > are alive. Who will be smarter between these two boys –

> > obviously

> > > > the one whose parents died while he was very young, because

> the

> > > kind

> > > > of progress we make in difficulties is not possible when

> > > everything

> > > > is fine.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore, a Sadhak should feel EXTREMELY HAPPY, if there

are

> > > > difficult situations. Kunti (mother of Arjun) knew this fact

> and

> > > > therefore she asked Parmaatma to send unfavourable

situations

> in

> > > her

> > > > life, so that she never forgets Him.

> > > >

> > > > Rajendra J. Bohra

> > > >

> > > > Narayana Narayana

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > The question 'why bad things happen to believers' forms a

part

> > of

> > > a

> > > > bigger 2 questions that are the cause of the misery of all

> human

> > > > beings. These are: " Why me " and " Why not me " . It is

common

> > > > phenomenon arising out of comparisons. When I loose my job

> the

> > > > first reaction is Why me? Similarly if my neighbor wins a

> > lottery

> > > > ticket I feel Why not me? Add to this a presumption that a

> > > believer

> > > > should get better grace from the Lord than the non-

believer.

> > As

> > > > you can see all these questions and turmoil in the mind is

due

> > to

> > > > our subjective assessment. I will give a few examples in

> nature

> > > > when opposite questions were asked the person is happy. Then

> we

> > > > proceed to understand the Gita view mentioned in several

> > places.

> > > >

> > > > 1. When a child falls suddenly ill a mother ask 'why this

poor

> > > child

> > > > who does not know how to overcome this illness Why not me

who

> > can

> > > > take it easily? See how peaceful she feels and helps the

> child

> > to

> > > > get over with this attitude. Draw your own conclusion

> > > > 2. Kunti the mother of Pandavas had problems all through her

> > life

> > > > starting from the birth of Karna. Without going into detail

> of

> > > all

> > > > her problems, when Krishna asks her 'What can I do to help

you

> > my

> > > > dear aunt?' her reply was give me more troubles so that I

> will

> > > > remember you always and never forget.

> > > >

> > > > Now coming to the reality of things: That a believer or even

a

> > > good

> > > > person should not be subjected to bad things makes the

> > assumption

> > > > that God is discriminating between good and bad people in

> > > bestowing

> > > > His Grace. This assumption can be proven to be wrong by

the

> > > simple

> > > > example of the SUN we see everyday. He gives light, heat,

> food

> > > and

> > > > everything that nourishes the animate and inanimate

creation.

> > Gita

> > > > explains clearly, that without him there is no creation nor

> > > > sustenance. He does not discriminate good people and bad

> > people;

> > > > good places and bad places to shine on. If we project this

> > > example

> > > > one can see that God does not discriminate anybody. He

Gives

> > and

> > > > Gives freely. Some times we do not know how to receive His

> > Grace

> > > > and that is not His fault. For example look at the

beautiful

> > > > message of Gita that has answers to every question and how

we

> do

> > > not

> > > > take time to read and understand.

> > > >

> > > > Going further on the theory of Karma propounded in Gita, no

> one

> > > can

> > > > escape the ripened fruits of our past actions in this and

> > > previous

> > > > lives. By constant practice of Bhakti or acquiring Jnana one

> can

> > > > eliminate those past Karmas that have not ripened and also

> > avoid

> > > > the similarly the future ripening of the the present

actions.

> > > Thus

> > > > Gita has profound answers to the above question. Once we

> read,

> > > > understand and appreciate its message the question why bad

> > things

> > > to

> > > > believers does not arise at all.

> > > >

> > > > An Aspirant trying to understand the Gita message

> > > >

> > > > (B. Vempaty)

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > -

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > -Shree Hari-

> > > > >

> > > > > First of all Krishna is looking after you, After all you

have

> > > > > contacted '', you will receive wise counsel from

> our

> > > > sadhak

> > > > > brethren, (much more learned than I).

> > > > >

> > > > > Having noted your question, I read BG 12--15 through 20,

and

> > > found

> > > > it

> > > > > comforting, you see it is the mindset of the aspirant.

> > > > > Is your focus Krishna or the world, what is the greater

joy

> a

> > > > person

> > > > > can attain, a billion dollars, or liberation? What do you

> want

> > > the

> > > > > most?

> > > > > There is a joy that comes from within, where you don't

give

> up

> > > > things

> > > > > that make you happy, you lose interest in them as you gain

> joy

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > divine.

> > > > > The last question deals with a very difficult weakness of

> the

> > > ego.

> > > > > Someone once said to me, " you do not need your sword any

> > more,GOD

> > > > will

> > > > > look after you " . It is so easy to reach for our sword when

> we

> > > feel

> > > > we

> > > > > are being treated unjustly. In time you will understand

that

> > > people

> > > > > that deliberately hurt others need your compassion, for

they

> > are

> > > > in a

> > > > > very dark place.

> > > > >

> > > > > With Respect and Divine Love,

> > > > >

> > > > > Mike

> > > > > (Mike Keenor)

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> > > > >

> > > > > It may not be realized at first, but the proper question

is

> > > > not " why

> > > > > do bad things happen " , rather, " when bad things happen,

> what

> > > > should

> > > > > be my action? "

> > > > >

> > > > > Gita's teaching changes one to first calmly accept

whatever

> > has

> > > > > happened without saying good or bad. Then only, one may

> > > ask: " did

> > > > I

> > > > > do what was supposed to be done on my part with the best

of

> > > > ability

> > > > > God gave me and acted fairly? "

> > > > >

> > > > > If the answer is yes, then Gita tells us that you have

done

> > all

> > > > that

> > > > > you could have done, the result is not in your hand except

> to

> > > > accept

> > > > > and move on. You can neither blame nor praise yourself for

> > what

> > > > > happens. Thus Gita makes you at peace with yourself first

> > > before

> > > > > prompting you to act to correct the results if and when

> > needed.

> > > > Now

> > > > > isn't this a great change in itself that you can say " it

> > doesn't

> > > > > matter whatever happened, I did my best " , in the face of

> what

> > > was

> > > > > perceived as bad result?

> > > > >

> > > > > If the answer is " no " (you didn't give your 100%) then

there

> is

> > a

> > > > > lesson for the next time or to correct the situation now.

> Life

> > > is

> > > > > not a compromise for simply accepting the results of

> > injustice,

> > > > but

> > > > > is a compromise for the sake of being honest with oneself

> only

> > > > after

> > > > > carefully determining what happened was unjustice!

Actions

> > that

> > > > > follow out of understanding and love and not originate

from

> > > > personal

> > > > > desires and fear can never be bad in time.

> > > > >

> > > > > In time you will see benefit/justice for all including

you,

> > even

> > > > if

> > > > > what was thought as bad thing at the time. God's way of

> giving

> > > > > results is to take everyone' s interest including yours,

> > because

> > > > > yours is just one of many actions needed to converge in

the

> > > moment

> > > > > to accomplish the result.

> > > > >

> > > > > One has to understand all abilities are given to us by

God.

> > When

> > > > we

> > > > > develop into a decent human being acquiring education,

> skills

> > > etc,

> > > > > the intelligence to pursue such education, skills, and

> > necessary

> > > > > environment such as parents, teachers, bosses, family

> members

> > > and

> > > > > friends who can help, are made available to us! We didn't

> > > create

> > > > > them only through our personal efforts. We can never act

> > > properly

> > > > by

> > > > > isolating ourselves.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus we see that most of things in life are given to us by

> > God,

> > > > > sometimes call luck, by placing us where we can be best

> > placed.

> > > > Thus

> > > > > actions by us are His actions only through us. This has to

> be

> > > > > understood thoroughly, then only we can do good

acts/karmas.

> > > > >

> > > > > Gita's way of help is to build our attitude, so we can

not

> > only

> > > > > accept but welcome all happenings in our life and address

> them

> > > > with

> > > > > fortitude. At some point down the road we can even

relieve

> > God

> > > > from

> > > > > giving us only good results, rather make good of

everything

> > that

> > > > > happens. For this one needs to have unbroken trust that

> > whatever

> > > > > happens to an apparant person, is what was needed for one

at

> > the

> > > > > time one needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaskars.....Pratap

> > > > > (Pratap Bhatt)

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > > > > Dear Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > This question is related to karma.

> > > > >

> > > > > We are brahmin and do not engage in any kind of bad

> activities

> > > > such

> > > > > as smoking, drinking etc. I had a boy (new born baby) Feb

> > 2002,

> > > > who

> > > > > died May 2002.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem was he had a tumor in his right arm under and

> > after

> > > > > investigations it was confirmed that bone marow cancer

stage

> > IV

> > > > > (malignant tumor) that was not curable. Both myself and

my

> > wife

> > > > > don't have any prior history of any type of cancer.

> > > > >

> > > > > as a parents we tried our maximum efforts to make it

right.

> > The

> > > > 90

> > > > > days for the baby was crucial in the name of treatment,

for

> > him

> > > to

> > > > > stay alive, we forced undergo a lot of suffering.

> > > > >

> > > > > The doctors said that it might be from the medicine or

food

> > > taken

> > > > > during pregnancy.

> > > > >

> > > > > When we got a book from a siddha doctor on cancer, it was

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > that the cancer is due to due to the karma.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you explain about this ?

> > > > >

> > > > > This should not happen to any kind of living being.

> > > > >

> > > > > srihari

> > > > >

> > > > > (Ranganathan Srihari)

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't have deep knowledge about Bhagavad Gita, but

there

> > are

> > > > few

> > > > > > questions that I can't seem to get answers to on my own.

> May

> > > be

> > > > you

> > > > > > can help me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Krishna says he always looks out for his

devotees

> > > > > > (believers); he always protects them from injustice.

Then

> > why

> > > do

> > > > > > bad things happen to them ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Is compromise something God created, should we

> give

> > > up

> > > > on

> > > > > > things that make us happy but bring injustice and

sadness

> in

> > > our

> > > > > > life ? Should we learn to live our life as compromise

> > whiling

> > > > away

> > > > > > our life ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. What can one do if he knows he is being treated

> > > unfairly

> > > > > > but it's out of his control to do anything as it's in

> > > another's

> > > > > hand?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank You

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pinky

> > > > > > (Grishma Patel)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > --

> > > > -

> > > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > > > The Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify

their

> > > doubts

> > > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. To ensure that both the

> questions

> > > and

> > > > > the

> > > > > > responses are focused, pointed and brief, the guidelines

> for

> > > > Gita-

> > > > > > Talk discussions are being modified and are being sent

to

> > you.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

discussions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A QUESTION:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji and

clarifying

> any

> > > > > > doubts, therefore only questions that pertain to Gitaji

> will

> > be

> > > > > > posted in the future.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Please restrict the number of questions asked to only

> one

> > > at a

> > > > > > time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is compulsory - at

> > least

> > > > once

> > > > > > in the question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. Please be specific with the question, relating the

> > practical

> > > > > > difficulties being faced by the Sadhak. Specifics

around,

> > > where

> > > > is

> > > > > > the sadhak facing obstacles in his spiritual journey, in

> the

> > > > > > teachings of Geetaji, in principles laid down by Swamiji

> or

> > > other

> > > > > > Mahatamas are highly recommended to be included.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5. General questions will not be considered for future

> > posting.

> > > > > > e.g. " suicide " " solving world hunger " etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore,

only

> > > > > > responses which further clarify the understanding of

> Gitaji,

> > > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > posted.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly

encouraged -

>

> > at

> > > > > least

> > > > > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote

> > Gitaji

> > > or

> > > > > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > > respecting

> > > > > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should

> > exceed

> > > say

> > > > > > one page at the most (500 words or so).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs

etc.

> to

> > > the

> > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

> > shlokas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or

other

> > > > > > organizations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is

strongly

> > > > > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book

> or

> > > > author

> > > > > > (but not links to other sites).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such

as

> > > phone

> > > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > > individual

> > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses

will

> > be

> > > > > posted

> > > > > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking

> > Shrimad

> > > > > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting,

> if

> > > > content

> > > > > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to

the

> > > > question

> > > > > > being asked.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the

novices,

> > > youth,

> > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use

> of

> > > only

> > > > > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with

> Sanskrit

> > > > > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>