Which is the Easiest Path to Cross the Ocean of Life in Kaliyug ?

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to talk

with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried in

this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

 

Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no other "

sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means for his

Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai as :-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

 

(Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

 

Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine) creates " ananya

bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also of

ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

 

Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are others

including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences, happenings,

mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING ELSE..

 

When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all others

except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya bhaav " .

The moment he does it :-

 

Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

 

Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all that is

needed for him - Gita 9:22

 

Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

 

A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

 

Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind and

intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and (ii)

he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

 

It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to offer

to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water etc

with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

 

If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to offer ,

then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do, give.

etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

 

If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the bondages

and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

 

Can there be a simpler thing? No !

 

As simple as that ! !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------

 

1. Sahaja Yoga.

2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

 

Rameshwar Sabhlok

 

 

-------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> NARAYAN NARAYAN

>

> In English

>

> In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

> (God Realisation)

> Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

>

> In Hindi

>

> KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN SA HAI-

> (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

>

> R.C.VYAS

>

>

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses

> which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be posted.

>

> 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

least

> once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> other scriptures to substantiate your response.

>

> 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

one

> (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

>

> 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

>

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

>

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

>

> 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

> (but not links to other sites).

>

> 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

>

> 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

>

> 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

posted

> which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

>

> 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

> is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

> being asked.

>

> 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed wherever possible.

>

> 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the

> stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

>

> 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

> spiritual learning and sharing.

>

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

[Guest guest]

Friends

1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but no

definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one path

over another path is not given.

3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with specific

reference of Gita sloka.

 

Ashok Jain

-----------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

 

Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji, and let

us know if you have specific issues with what has been addressed.

We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without furthering

the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. " will

require you to do some additional homework to point out why you have

concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to so

many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking forward

to a more complete response with Gita references.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

Thanks regards

A K Jain

------------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there anything

offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the trouble ?

How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they know

with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the Universe at

large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does end

with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be something

transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again... Thank

you in advance !

 

-

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

-------------------------------

In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE BHAVSAGAR.

G.VAIDYANATHAN.

--------------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference where

this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in Gita,

but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this will be

very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

group.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

-------------------------------

To Geeta Talk Moderator

 

I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the following

para be replaced in place existing para-

 

A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and (iii)

realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

 

Thanks

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

>

> Hari Om

>

> The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to

talk

> with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried in

> this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

>

> Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no other "

> sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means for

his

> Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai

as :-

>

> Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

>

> (Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

>

> Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine) creates " ananya

> bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

> ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also of

> ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

>

> Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are others

> including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences, happenings,

> mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING

ELSE..

>

> When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all

others

> except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya bhaav " .

> The moment he does it :-

>

> Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

>

> Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all that

is

> needed for him - Gita 9:22

>

> Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

> death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

>

> A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

> realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

>

> Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind

and

> intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and

(ii)

> he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

>

> It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to

offer

> to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water etc

> with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

>

> If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to offer ,

> then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do,

give.

> etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

>

> If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

> guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the bondages

> and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

>

> Can there be a simpler thing? No !

>

> As simple as that ! !

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

> -------------------------

>

> 1. Sahaja Yoga.

> 2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

> 3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

>

> Rameshwar Sabhlok

>

>

> -------------------------

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > NARAYAN NARAYAN

> >

> > In English

> >

> > In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

> > (God Realisation)

> > Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

> >

> > In Hindi

> >

> > KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN SA

HAI-

> > (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> > GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

> >

> > R.C.VYAS

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> >

> > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> >

> > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> responses

> > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

> >

> > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> least

> > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> >

> > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed

say

> one

> > (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

> >

> > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> >

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> >

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > organizations.

> >

> > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

author

> > (but not links to other sites).

> >

> > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> > number, address etc.

> >

> > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> > since the message is going to the entire group.

> >

> > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> posted

> > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> >

> > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content

> > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

question

> > being asked.

> >

> > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > bracketed wherever possible.

> >

> > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or

about

> the

> > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> >

> > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in

this

> > spiritual learning and sharing.

> >

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

At the outset I must admire the depth involved in the question. It

is extremely compact question and is like an ocean in itself and

still brief and focused. Such questions in their own right bring the

best out of deliberations and out of Jnana Yagya which by

participating in this Gita Talk group we all are performing.

 

Sadhak Vaidynathan has also indeed in minimum words given one of

the easiest means of Bhakti and realisation. Though his comment is

based basically on Ram Charitmanas and Shrimad Bhagwatam but in

Gita 9:14 and Gita 11:36 you can find confirmation.

 

I am also addressing in this posting questions raised by Sadhak

Ashok Jain.

 

In fact Bhakti both as a means and as and end is the easiest among

the three major paths plus Meditation (Dhyaan Yoga).

 

Krishna confirms in Gita 5:2 that Karma Yoga is better than Jnana

Yoga. Karma Yoga is also better than Dhyaan Yoga - Gita 12:12.

Krishna also states difficulties in Jnana Yoga in 12:4.

 

But Bhakti Yoga is the easiest. This has been categorically

confirmed by Krishna in Gita 12:2 with reference to Jnana Yoga and

in Gita 6:47 with reference to all other Yogas.

 

Reason is that in this Yoga a Bhakta's entire responsibilty is

taken over by Bhagwaan - whether it is making him cross Bhavsagar

(ocean of birth and death, this ever changing abode of sorrow - the

dukhalayam - this world) " Very Quickly " - Gita 12:6-7 or destroying

his sins - Gita 18:66 , or granting him equanimity - Gita 10:10 or

destroying his illusion and giving him knowledge - Gita 10:11 , or

taking him out of power of Maya - Gita 13:14 and making available to

him all that is necessary for accomplishment of Yoga - 9:21 etc.

Bhakta does not have to do any thing to get the above things. All

others have to do/know something of their own.

 

Then in Bhakti Equanimity is not the essence - a bhakta does not

have to strive for it, he gets it automatically as gift from

Bhagwaan.

 

Karma Yogi needs a settled intellect to get equanimity - which in

fact tests the Yogi quite a bit. Biggest challenge before Jnana Yogi

is destruction of ego - Gita 12:4. Bhakta is required to change his

ego, which is simpler to do than purifying it (Karma Yoga) or

eliminating it (Jnana Yoga) - Gita 12:4. In Dhyaan Yoga a lot of

disciplines have to be observed - Gita 6:11 to 6:17.

Bhakta first renounces his " mineness " with the world, then by

automatic operation of law the ego gets renounced. To renounce ego

anyday is more difficult. Jnani has to first renounce ego and then

automatically his " mineness " gets renounced.

 

Bhakta simply changes his ego from " I am of World " to " I am of

Bhagwaan " and renounces his mineness with the world - ONLY by his

inner bhava (inner intention/sentiment). He starts seeing all around

him to be of Bhagwaan - including near and dear ones. It then

takes " kshipram " time (less than a second) for him to become

Dharmatma - Gita 9:31. Bhagwaan makes Arjuna swear that a Bhakta

shall not fall/fail in his spiritual journey - Gita 9:31- thus a

Bhakta never becomes " yoga bhrashta " as described in Gita 6:37-38.

 

The means of Bhakti are far far simpler than in other yogas and

manifestation of " divine traits " as described in Gita 16:1 to 16:4

are easier to get by for Bhakta. We shall deal with the same in next

postings.

 

Once Bhagwaan Himself uses the word " sulabh " (easy) for Bhakti ,

then there is no way it can be difficult. It is indeed the easiest.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shri Krishna,

 

Parmaatma in all places, in all things, at all times, and in

everyone (Hari vyaapak Sarvatra Samaana). Therefore, there is no

need for doing anything to realize Him.

 

We firmly believe and are ingrained in the idea that if worldly

things are achieved after so much of efforts, then how could the

supreme Parmaatma be realized immediately. This belief only is

delaying us from meeting Him. If we believe that we will meet Him in

future after pursuing Sadhana over a period of time, then we will

meet Him in future only. If we firmly believe (Bhava) that we will

find Him right now, then He will come to us right now only. Krishna

confirms so (Gita 4:11). The delay is not in realizing Him, but is

in our Bhavana only (inner expression, belief, feeling).

 

One evening a cultured king was walking on his terrace observing the

movements on the road. He saw a saint walking in his own world

unaware of the surroundings on the road. He ordered his men to bring

the saint to him on the terrace. The men pulled the saint on the

terrace with the help of a rope without any delay. The king

apologized to the saint for his men and requested the saint to

answer his question that `how can we meet Parmaatma instantly'. The

saint told the king that you already know this answer yourself. The

king asked how ? The saint said that if I feel like meeting you, the

king, then there are a lot of obstacles and delays in the process

and it may never ever be possible at times. But when you felt like

meeting me, then did it take time ? The saint then said that O king,

similarly if Parmaatma feels like meeting us then there will not be

any delay. Then the king asked how will Parmaatma feel like meeting

us ? The saint asked the king that how did you feel like meeting

me ? The king said that I saw that you were walking in your own

world without paying any attention to the road, market, shops,

house, people, happenings etc. so I felt like meeting you. Then the

saint told that O king, similarly if you focus only on Parmaatma

without looking at anyone else, if you cannot remain without Him,

then Parmaatma will feel like meeting you and He will meet you

instantly.

 

We have created barriers in Parmaatma realization by beliefs such

as – He can be met only by saints, He can be met only if we go and

reside in forest, How can we meet Him without a Guru (Preceptor)?

These days there are no real Gurus to lead us to the path of His

realization so How will we meet Him ? If we are not destined then

how will we meet Him ? Since we are not eligible how will we meet ?

Our Karma are not such that we can meet Him ? etc. etc.. We have

suppressed Parmaatma below these various barriers. In such a

situation what can Parmaatma do, how can He meet us?

 

It is absolutely wrong to assume that Parmaatma will be realized in

exchange for some qualification (Yogyata). It is a rule that cost of

any thing we buy in the market in exchange for money is always less

than the money we paid for. Similarly, if we believe that Parmaatma

can be realized in exchange for certain special Yogyata or Sadhan or

Austerities, Charity etc. then He will be less in value compared to

these things, which he is not.

 

When something is ample in supply and the demand is less then that

thing is available in the market for very cheap price, because the

seller is interested in disposing off the stock. Similarly, it is

very easy to get Him in Kaliyuga because now there are very few

takers for Him. Therefore, we should not have such Bhava

(sentiments) that how can Parmaatma be realized easily in Kaliyuga.

Just determine firmly that come what may, we have to realize

Parmatma.

 

If we engage in purifying ourselves first then it will delay His

realization. Instead of our efforts, His grace will purify us

instantly. If a child is fully covered with mud etc. and comes to

the mother, then the mother herself cleans him.

 

No knowledge or qualification but only mineness in Parmaatma is

essential to attract Parmaatma, just as a child attracts his mother.

This mineness has great powers to attract Parmaatma. It is only due

to mineness that Prahlaad had with Parmaatma that Parmaatma appeared

from a stone pillar. Mirabai said " Mere to Giridhar Gopal, Dusro Na

Koi Re " .

 

The delay in His realization is being caused ONLY due to lack of our

INTENSE DESIRE to realize Him, otherwise there is no delay in

meeting Him. Such intense desire is only possible if we renounce the

worldly desires. We can realize Him by Ananya Bhakti (only desiring

Him) – Gita 11:54. Then, it is His responsibility to address any

deficiency in the Sadhana of a Bhakta. If a Bhakta forgets Him in

his last moments for some reason, then He Himself reminds the Bhakta

of Him.

 

Krishna has declared Bhaktiyoga as superior to all other means and

Bhaktayogi as best amongst all the Sadhakas (Gita 6:47 and 12:2).

 

Narayana Narayana

 

Rajendra J. Bohra

 

 

Dear sadhaks,

 

My humble respects, and my foolish attempts to offer something

to this discussion....from the Caitanya Caritamrta.....(Adi2.1)

 

sri caitanya prabhum vande balo 'pi yad-anugrahat

taren nana mata graha vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

" I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy

even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive

truths, which is full of the crocodiles of various useless theories. "

 

from the Ananta-Samhita/Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu bhagavata:

 

krsnas caitanya-gaurangau gaura-candrah saci-sutah

prabhu-gaurau gaura-harir namani bhakti-dani me

" I bestow prema-bhakti upon whoever chants My names such as Krsna,

Caitanya, Gauranga, Gaura-candra, Saci-suta, Prabhu, Gaura, and

Gaura-hari. "

from the Sri Vidagdha-madhava, of Rupa Gosvami

 

anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

harih purata-sundara-dyuti kadamba-sandipitah

sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

 

" May the Supreme Lord, who is known as the so of Srimati Saci-deve,

be brilliantly situated in the innermost core of your heart.

Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the

Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has

ever offered before; the most sublime and radiant mellow of

devotional service, madhurya-rasa (as manjari-bhava), service to

Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservants. "

 

And finally, to conclude my humble presentation from the " Sri

Slokamrtam " of Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj: (from the Brhan-

Naradiya-Purana 38.126/and Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 17/21)

 

" harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "

" In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance

is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no

other way, no other way " .

 

my humble thanks, for the moderators and readers allowing me the

opportunity to remember these sacred verses.

 

kadaham yamuna-tire, namani tava kirtayan...

udvaspah pundarikaksa!! racayisyami tandavam

" O lotus-eyed Krsna, when, upon the banks of the Yamuna, will I

chant Your holy names and dance like a madman, my eyes brimming with

tears of love? "

 

Mahalaksmi dasi

 

Dear Vyas,

In kaliyuga ,the easiest path to follow is to chant the name of the

Lord---Nama Japa, Nama Smarana...

Gita: In Meditation,I am Japa.

Regards,

In Sai Smaran,

N K Srinivasan

 

-

Dear Sadhaks,

Life is not bed of Roses goes saying. What is easy for one is very

tough for someone.

If mental pleasure is there than Moon light night, scenic

environment is happiness. The same situation when mind is in agony

everything appears frustrating.

In Sat Yug Tapa- In tretha you Japa- in Dwaperyug Yagna and in Kali

yug " Namasankerthan " (Reciting Name of Bhagavan), says sastras

(scriptures). But Namasankeethan has to be said with body mind and

intellect aligned.

One saint known as Patinathar of recent time said, " my mouth is

saying your Nama, my hands are doing something else, my eyes are

looking somewhere, my mind is wondering, Oh Bagavan Shiva grant me

the boon so that I can fully concentrate on YOU. "

 

Easiest way for Sadhak is follow foot steps of Gopies. Gopies were

always talking of Krishna, selling curd by name of Krishna, churning

milk singing about Krishna, and when they had time to sit and relax

they held Satsangh saying leelas of Krishna. That is why Uddhava

sitting in front of Krishna in Mathura use to bow down towards

Nandgokul where gopies lived. Uddhava has said to Krishna the

pranams not for you, Oh Krishna but to Gopies of Brindavan.

 

There was no food for Namadev children who were crying out of

hunger. Namadev said to his children, " Vittala Bolo, Vittala Bolo. "

Dear Sadhaks, Vittala did come as a passer by and cooked food for

the whole family. This did happen. One can visit Panderpur and see

Saint Namadev house. Many things people do not believe, then how can

faith come ? Even if one says without faith Hare Krishna, Sri

Krishna multiplies baktha's faith.

 

Bhagavan said during war in Kuruchetra to Arjuna to shout as, " My

Baktha will never be forsaken " . But Arjuna shouted, " Krishna Baktha

will never be forsaked " . Bagavan again said, Arjuna tell that your

Baktha will not be forsaked and not MY baktha.

Therefore engage you mind in Shri Krishna at all times. No Japa No

Tapa is needed, simply become engaged in Him like the Gopies doing

everything only for Shri Krishna.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

--------------------------------

Does GITA tell 'Tat Twam Asi' ?

Does it mean " ananya bhava " is self study ?

Does It mean 'A Hermit can achieve it' ?

Does a Saint say, " GOD is realised by seeing the creation around " ?

Or else it's selfishness !

 

Swapan Purkayastha

-

Dear Sir

 

1)I sincerely appreciate your reply and my regard for you has

increased manifold. You are doing a good job by moderating this

group.

 

2)I certainly found your reply to be offensive as such d

from the group. However ,unsubscribing from the Group does not mean

I have anything against anyone. This means only that no purpose

would be served by continuing to be member of the Group.

 

3)I stand firmly on my statement that " there is no easy path all

path requires same effort " based on and backed by following

understanding:-

 

a) While Bhagwan Krishna explains all the paths in Gita ,he

nowhere indicates or suggests to Arjuna that this is the easier path.

 

b) If there was a easier path,Bhagwan Krishna would have

mentioned that path only and Gita would have been of one chapter

only.

 

c) Bhaktimarg seems easy but it is the most difficult because

human mind is not designed for complete surrender.

 

4) From my personal experience of past lives and this life and

thorough understanding of Jainism ,Buddhism and Hinduism I have

reasons to believe that there is no easy path.I am one of the very

few jains who has been so much inspired by Gita that for past six

years have been actively propagating study of Gita.I recently got

Astavakra Gita printed and distribute the same to Sadhaks.

 

 

5) I will be obliged to receive from you information about easier

path as mentioned in Gita.

 

6) As a mark of respect for you , I am subscribing to the Group

again.

 

regards

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-

shree hari

ram ram

 

Ashokji, Thank you ! We are so pleased to read the last part (6)

and as a matter of fact the entire email ...

 

There is a definite purpose to be served by this association (with

Gita Talk). These are not ordinary associations... they are divine

blessings from Paramatma Himself.

 

Ashokji, also having this in-depth knowledge of Jainism, Buddhism

and Hinduism and Astavakra Gita, it will be wonderful to share with

the group from time to time, to help all sadhaks. Please see if you

can include references, so sadhaks can do some further study and

inquiry in their own time.

 

Your message will be posted to Gita Talk and I am certain you will

get some insightful replies on the easier path.

 

We look forward to your participation.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

--------------------------------

 

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Friends

> 1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but no

> definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

> 2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one path

> over another path is not given.

> 3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

> 4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

> 5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with

specific

> reference of Gita sloka.

>

> Ashok Jain

> -----------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

>

> Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji, and

let

> us know if you have specific issues with what has been addressed.

> We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without furthering

> the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

> like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. "

will

> require you to do some additional homework to point out why you

have

> concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to so

> many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

> Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking

forward

> to a more complete response with Gita references.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> ------------------------------

> Thanks regards

> A K Jain

> ------------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

> Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there anything

> offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the trouble ?

> How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they

know

> with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the Universe

at

> large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

> appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does end

> with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be something

> transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again... Thank

> you in advance !

>

> -

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

> -------------------------------

> In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE BHAVSAGAR.

> G.VAIDYANATHAN.

> --------------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

> Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference where

> this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in

Gita,

> but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this will

be

> very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

> group.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> -------------------------------

> To Geeta Talk Moderator

>

> I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the

following

> para be replaced in place existing para-

>

> A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and (iii)

> realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

>

> Thanks

> Vyas N B

> --------------------------------

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to

> talk

> > with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried

in

> > this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

> >

> > Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no other "

> > sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means for

> his

> > Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai

> as :-

> >

> > Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

> >

> > (Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

> >

> > Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine)

creates " ananya

> > bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

> > ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also

of

> > ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

> >

> > Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are

others

> > including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences,

happenings,

> > mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING

> ELSE..

> >

> > When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all

> others

> > except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya

bhaav " .

> > The moment he does it :-

> >

> > Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

> >

> > Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all

that

> is

> > needed for him - Gita 9:22

> >

> > Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

> > death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

> >

> > A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

> > realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

> >

> > Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind

> and

> > intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and

> (ii)

> > he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

> >

> > It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to

> offer

> > to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water etc

> > with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

> >

> > If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to

offer ,

> > then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do,

> give.

> > etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

> >

> > If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

> > guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the

bondages

> > and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

> >

> > Can there be a simpler thing? No !

> >

> > As simple as that ! !

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > Vyas N B

> > -------------------------

> >

> > 1. Sahaja Yoga.

> > 2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

> > 3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

> >

> > Rameshwar Sabhlok

> >

> >

> > -------------------------

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > NARAYAN NARAYAN

> > >

> > > In English

> > >

> > > In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of

life?

> > > (God Realisation)

> > > Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

> > >

> > > In Hindi

> > >

> > > KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN SA

> HAI-

> > > (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> > > GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

> > >

> > > R.C.VYAS

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> -

> > >

> > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > >

> > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > responses

> > > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

> posted.

> > >

> > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> > least

> > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji

or

> > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > >

> > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

respecting

> > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed

> say

> > one

> > > (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

> > >

> > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

the

> > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > >

> > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > >

> > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > organizations.

> > >

> > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

> author

> > > (but not links to other sites).

> > >

> > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

phone

> > > number, address etc.

> > >

> > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

individual

> > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > >

> > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> > posted

> > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > >

> > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> content

> > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> question

> > > being asked.

> > >

> > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth,

> > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of

only

> > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > >

> > > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or

> about

> > the

> > > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> > > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> > >

> > > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in

> this

> > > spiritual learning and sharing.

> > >

> > >

> > > MODERATOR

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

If your emails contain " > " at the beginning of each line, and you

are using Outlook / Outlook Express, you may do the following to remove:

 

In Outlook Express, go to Tools --> Options --> Send --> Mail

Sending Format --> html settings (and text settings) --> untick

the " Indent on reply "

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

Easiest Path

 

Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

 

Ashokji's question about the easiest path is quite pertinent. In

fact, there are many do's and don'ts for the Karma (Action, Selfless

Service), Dhyaan Yoga (Meditation) and the Gyan (Knowledge) Margs

(path). The eligibility of a person to follow/perform the

prescriptions of these Margas is also very stringent, so also the

processes.

 

For example, for the eligibility of a person to follow the Karma

Marg and the associated rituals, there are several considerations to

take care of, like the place where these are being pursued, time

when it is done, source of money which is to be used and how it has

been acquired, the priest who is conducting a ritual, his capacity

to pronounce the mantras correctly etc. etc. This is very very

difficult to fulfill.

 

Even in Yoga (Dhyana) Marg, one has to cross several stages like

Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharanaa, Dhyana, until

Samadhi, each of which is very difficult to perform and master.

 

Gyan Marg, is a path suited for those whose intellects are highly

developed to be able to discriminate between the real and the

unreal, the ephemeral and the eternal etc. Secondly, the Gyana marga

involves renouncing impermanent material things as well as the

impermanent distractions related to patriotic interests. The person

who wants to go in this path must have purified his mind to such an

extent that he should have the capability of one-pointedness. He

should have control of mind (shama), control of the sense organs

(dama), Titikshhaa (Patience, Endurance) practice four `Sadhana-

chatushtayam'. Perhaps one in a billion may pass those tests

prescribed in the above Margas, if at all. Not to mention, even a

person of the caliber of Arjuna did not have his mind and intellect

stable enough and continued to pose his dilemma before Bhagwan until

he heard the final words from Him.

 

And even on having done so, the stage up to which the follower of

the above Margas can rise is limited.

 

However in in Bhakti (Devotion and Love) Marg alone there are no

prescriptions/ conditions of time, place, money/resources…... Any

one with a longing for God and with pure mind can follow it with a

sense of love and devotion. In fact there is nothing to be done

except remembering Him all the time with love. Even if a devotee

wishes to offer something, in Gita, Bhagwan himself has confessed

that he would just accept anything- a leaf, flower, water, fruit…..

when offered with love (Gita 9.26). He has said that all the actions

done by a devotee should be just surrendered unto him (9.27) and a

devotee has to be fully absorbed in His thoughts with full faith

(Gita 9.34). Bhagwan finally advises that renouncing all

faiths/religions if one takes refuge in Him, He shall liberate the

person from all bonds of dharma and adharma alike (Gita 18.66).

 

Thus, compared to any other path, this path of devotion is simpler.

 

Regards.

 

K.N.Sharma

 

 

Namasthe, This is my humble opinion based on my interpretation of

your question " In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this

ocean of life? (God Realisation). " .

 

I do not consider 'crossing this ocean of life' and 'God

Realisation' are somewhat little different expressions, meaning,

once a person becomes God realised, there is no question about life

being an ocean and having a need to cross it, since the crossing of

the ocean or any activity just becomes the normal activity that is

fully surrendered to God.

 

Coming the meaning of becoming easily 'God Realized'..can be

understood under Meditation (Gita 6th chapter) by just remembering

that SUPREME all the time in every action of ours and surrendering

our action, and the fruits of our actions, and complete of ourselves

to that Supreme/God.

 

Regards,

Bharathi

--------------------------------

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

The initial question being asked is :

In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

(God Realisation). Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which

verse) ?

 

This question has immense depth, but is also a very direct question,

that requires deep understanding but at the same time not evading

the directness of the question. The question, calls for taking a stand on

what Shri Krishna has said on this subject, very clearly, very specifically and

with shloka references. Although the English translation may have lacked in some

clarity in terminology / words used, let us respect the seeker, and his wishes.

 

Also, I believe the responses to this question so far have also been

very direct, insightful with specific references in Gita. Thank you

all for carrying on God's work and in being an instrument in

performing the highest seva (service) of all sevas.

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

First, I admire Moderatorji who is doing an outstanding job of

keeping the group together and focused by working so hard. In all

our differing views, we are journeying together unknowingly at times

toward the goal. It helps us.

 

I am equally grateful shri Ashokji has rejoined us. I have always

appreciated his contributions to the group.

 

I am compelled to speak my heart. Sometimes I get the feeling that

we may be carried away in quoting Gita references and get involved

in literal interpretations overlooking new insights appropriate in

our times. I apologize as I may be wrong in assuming this for

others.

 

I know well that the teaching of Gita is timeless, however, the

insights are always evolutionary in nature even as the teaching

remains same across generations. Many more contemporary commentaries

on Gita proves this. Human Consciousness seems to have built-in

evolutionary impulse. For this to happen we need to also bring in

the inner experience based inputs to our acquired scriptural

knowledge.

 

To me, to say one path is superior or inferior, easier or harder

than others has lesser appeals than to say whatever path one follows

based on ones deepest inclination with longing for Truth-God is more

appropriate for that sadhaka. In this period of technological

growth, and prevailing level of intellectualism, for some of us

inquiry into " what am I? " may be more logical in the beginning until

such time as one exhausts mind totally into which God invites

Himself. For some of us Devotion and Love to Personalized God in

some form may be more appropriate and still others may be inclined

to serve fellow human beings doing Karma Yoga until maturation in

their pursuits find fruition in the realization of Truth. To say

that Ego remains in pursuits of selfless karma or Gyan(Self-

knowledge) while it is gone in Bhakta may not be whole truth. It is

so subtle it can creep up in Bhakta as well as Gyani or Karmi. When

one realizes there is no Gyani, only Gyan, no Bhakta, only Bhakti,

no Karmi only selflessness, there remains no one to be anything!

 

Krishnaji has said many things at different times upholding their

values in one's Sadhana. He also says that if one cannot do any of

these, then surrender unto " Me " is best for such a one. In my

understanding He perhaps didn't imply just because it is easier to

surrender, just do it. I feel that path being harder or easier is

not in the path itself, sadhaka's inner makeup plays a big role.

Seemingly easier paths prescribed in general for everyone may be

difficult when being practiced otherwise, so it seems, Krishnaji

wouldn't have mentioned all paths.

 

Sadhaka as an individual doesn't choose, the choice is the natural

outcome of being open to whatever one comes across that one's heart

and mind cry out in unison: " yes, yes, give me more " !

Nonetheless, with equal respect to all who are asking questions and

those who are sharing their understanding via postings, I appreciate

their wisdom and am grateful!

 

Namaskars..Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

Hari OM.

I am not able to give any reference from Gita. However certain

other refernces are being given .

 

The Greatness of Namasankeerthan

" NAAHAM VASAAMI VAIKUNTE

NAYOHI HRUDHAYE RAVAU

MATH BHAKTHA YATHRA GAAYANTHI

THATHRA THISTAAMI NAARATHA "

 

Bhagavan Sri Krishna emphatically told Naradha that he always

resides with his devotees performing Namasankeerthan. It may be

noted that Namasankeerthan is a key sadhana available in kaliyuga to

reach god as other ways and means like doing yagna and yaagas are

more complex and need other things like money and manpower.

Namasankeerthan does not require anything else except pure devotion

towards Him. Hence it has been recognised as one of the purest,

easiest and surest path to reach God for any aspirant irrespective

of caste or creed. Many religious scripts and hymns have directed us

towards this path.

 

Namasankeerthan is a form of bhakthi where the glory of Almighty and

His divine activities are sung with greatest involvement and

dedication. The main feature of traditional namasankeerthan is the

Divyanama Sankeerthana, also known as Jagannatha Pradakshina. Lord

Krishna is invoked in a five-faced silver lamp and the devotees go

round it singing and dancing unmindful of their state and status in

a blissful mood. The Namasankeerthan thus evolves a new method of

purifying your body, soul and your mental status. It also inculcates

in the minds of people the very basic social essentials like

endurance, perseverance, adherence, and adaptability that are of

paramount importance in your daily life.

 

G. Vaidyanathan

--

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> At the outset I must admire the depth involved in the question. It

> is extremely compact question and is like an ocean in itself and

> still brief and focused. Such questions in their own right bring

the

> best out of deliberations and out of Jnana Yagya which by

> participating in this Gita Talk group we all are performing.

>

> Sadhak Vaidynathan has also indeed in minimum words given one of

> the easiest means of Bhakti and realisation. Though his comment is

> based basically on Ram Charitmanas and Shrimad Bhagwatam but in

> Gita 9:14 and Gita 11:36 you can find confirmation.

>

> I am also addressing in this posting questions raised by Sadhak

> Ashok Jain.

>

> In fact Bhakti both as a means and as and end is the easiest among

> the three major paths plus Meditation (Dhyaan Yoga).

>

> Krishna confirms in Gita 5:2 that Karma Yoga is better than Jnana

> Yoga. Karma Yoga is also better than Dhyaan Yoga - Gita 12:12.

> Krishna also states difficulties in Jnana Yoga in 12:4.

>

> But Bhakti Yoga is the easiest. This has been categorically

> confirmed by Krishna in Gita 12:2 with reference to Jnana Yoga and

> in Gita 6:47 with reference to all other Yogas.

>

> Reason is that in this Yoga a Bhakta's entire responsibilty is

> taken over by Bhagwaan - whether it is making him cross Bhavsagar

> (ocean of birth and death, this ever changing abode of sorrow -

the

> dukhalayam - this world) " Very Quickly " - Gita 12:6-7 or destroying

> his sins - Gita 18:66 , or granting him equanimity - Gita 10:10 or

> destroying his illusion and giving him knowledge - Gita 10:11 , or

> taking him out of power of Maya - Gita 13:14 and making available

to

> him all that is necessary for accomplishment of Yoga - 9:21 etc.

> Bhakta does not have to do any thing to get the above things. All

> others have to do/know something of their own.

>

> Then in Bhakti Equanimity is not the essence - a bhakta does not

> have to strive for it, he gets it automatically as gift from

> Bhagwaan.

>

> Karma Yogi needs a settled intellect to get equanimity - which in

> fact tests the Yogi quite a bit. Biggest challenge before Jnana

Yogi

> is destruction of ego - Gita 12:4. Bhakta is required to change his

> ego, which is simpler to do than purifying it (Karma Yoga) or

> eliminating it (Jnana Yoga) - Gita 12:4. In Dhyaan Yoga a lot of

> disciplines have to be observed - Gita 6:11 to 6:17.

> Bhakta first renounces his " mineness " with the world, then by

> automatic operation of law the ego gets renounced. To renounce ego

> anyday is more difficult. Jnani has to first renounce ego and then

> automatically his " mineness " gets renounced.

>

> Bhakta simply changes his ego from " I am of World " to " I am of

> Bhagwaan " and renounces his mineness with the world - ONLY by his

> inner bhava (inner intention/sentiment). He starts seeing all

around

> him to be of Bhagwaan - including near and dear ones. It then

> takes " kshipram " time (less than a second) for him to become

> Dharmatma - Gita 9:31. Bhagwaan makes Arjuna swear that a Bhakta

> shall not fall/fail in his spiritual journey - Gita 9:31- thus a

> Bhakta never becomes " yoga bhrashta " as described in Gita 6:37-38.

>

> The means of Bhakti are far far simpler than in other yogas and

> manifestation of " divine traits " as described in Gita 16:1 to 16:4

> are easier to get by for Bhakta. We shall deal with the same in

next

> postings.

>

> Once Bhagwaan Himself uses the word " sulabh " (easy) for Bhakti ,

> then there is no way it can be difficult. It is indeed the easiest.

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

>

>

> Jai Shri Krishna,

>

> Parmaatma in all places, in all things, at all times, and in

> everyone (Hari vyaapak Sarvatra Samaana). Therefore, there is no

> need for doing anything to realize Him.

>

> We firmly believe and are ingrained in the idea that if worldly

> things are achieved after so much of efforts, then how could the

> supreme Parmaatma be realized immediately. This belief only is

> delaying us from meeting Him. If we believe that we will meet Him

in

> future after pursuing Sadhana over a period of time, then we will

> meet Him in future only. If we firmly believe (Bhava) that we will

> find Him right now, then He will come to us right now only. Krishna

> confirms so (Gita 4:11). The delay is not in realizing Him, but is

> in our Bhavana only (inner expression, belief, feeling).

>

> One evening a cultured king was walking on his terrace observing

the

> movements on the road. He saw a saint walking in his own world

> unaware of the surroundings on the road. He ordered his men to

bring

> the saint to him on the terrace. The men pulled the saint on the

> terrace with the help of a rope without any delay. The king

> apologized to the saint for his men and requested the saint to

> answer his question that `how can we meet Parmaatma instantly'. The

> saint told the king that you already know this answer yourself. The

> king asked how ? The saint said that if I feel like meeting you,

the

> king, then there are a lot of obstacles and delays in the process

> and it may never ever be possible at times. But when you felt like

> meeting me, then did it take time ? The saint then said that O

king,

> similarly if Parmaatma feels like meeting us then there will not be

> any delay. Then the king asked how will Parmaatma feel like meeting

> us ? The saint asked the king that how did you feel like meeting

> me ? The king said that I saw that you were walking in your own

> world without paying any attention to the road, market, shops,

> house, people, happenings etc. so I felt like meeting you. Then the

> saint told that O king, similarly if you focus only on Parmaatma

> without looking at anyone else, if you cannot remain without Him,

> then Parmaatma will feel like meeting you and He will meet you

> instantly.

>

> We have created barriers in Parmaatma realization by beliefs such

> as – He can be met only by saints, He can be met only if we go and

> reside in forest, How can we meet Him without a Guru (Preceptor)?

> These days there are no real Gurus to lead us to the path of His

> realization so How will we meet Him ? If we are not destined then

> how will we meet Him ? Since we are not eligible how will we meet ?

> Our Karma are not such that we can meet Him ? etc. etc.. We have

> suppressed Parmaatma below these various barriers. In such a

> situation what can Parmaatma do, how can He meet us?

>

> It is absolutely wrong to assume that Parmaatma will be realized in

> exchange for some qualification (Yogyata). It is a rule that cost

of

> any thing we buy in the market in exchange for money is always less

> than the money we paid for. Similarly, if we believe that Parmaatma

> can be realized in exchange for certain special Yogyata or Sadhan

or

> Austerities, Charity etc. then He will be less in value compared to

> these things, which he is not.

>

> When something is ample in supply and the demand is less then that

> thing is available in the market for very cheap price, because the

> seller is interested in disposing off the stock. Similarly, it is

> very easy to get Him in Kaliyuga because now there are very few

> takers for Him. Therefore, we should not have such Bhava

> (sentiments) that how can Parmaatma be realized easily in Kaliyuga.

> Just determine firmly that come what may, we have to realize

> Parmatma.

>

> If we engage in purifying ourselves first then it will delay His

> realization. Instead of our efforts, His grace will purify us

> instantly. If a child is fully covered with mud etc. and comes to

> the mother, then the mother herself cleans him.

>

> No knowledge or qualification but only mineness in Parmaatma is

> essential to attract Parmaatma, just as a child attracts his

mother.

> This mineness has great powers to attract Parmaatma. It is only due

> to mineness that Prahlaad had with Parmaatma that Parmaatma

appeared

> from a stone pillar. Mirabai said " Mere to Giridhar Gopal, Dusro Na

> Koi Re " .

>

> The delay in His realization is being caused ONLY due to lack of

our

> INTENSE DESIRE to realize Him, otherwise there is no delay in

> meeting Him. Such intense desire is only possible if we renounce

the

> worldly desires. We can realize Him by Ananya Bhakti (only desiring

> Him) – Gita 11:54. Then, it is His responsibility to address any

> deficiency in the Sadhana of a Bhakta. If a Bhakta forgets Him in

> his last moments for some reason, then He Himself reminds the

Bhakta

> of Him.

>

> Krishna has declared Bhaktiyoga as superior to all other means and

> Bhaktayogi as best amongst all the Sadhakas (Gita 6:47 and 12:2).

>

> Narayana Narayana

>

> Rajendra J. Bohra

>

>

> Dear sadhaks,

>

> My humble respects, and my foolish attempts to offer something

> to this discussion....from the Caitanya Caritamrta.....(Adi2.1)

>

> sri caitanya prabhum vande balo 'pi yad-anugrahat

> taren nana mata graha vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

> " I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy

> even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive

> truths, which is full of the crocodiles of various useless

theories. "

>

> from the Ananta-Samhita/Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu bhagavata:

>

> krsnas caitanya-gaurangau gaura-candrah saci-sutah

> prabhu-gaurau gaura-harir namani bhakti-dani me

> " I bestow prema-bhakti upon whoever chants My names such as Krsna,

> Caitanya, Gauranga, Gaura-candra, Saci-suta, Prabhu, Gaura, and

> Gaura-hari. "

> from the Sri Vidagdha-madhava, of Rupa Gosvami

>

> anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

> samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

> harih purata-sundara-dyuti kadamba-sandipitah

> sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

>

> " May the Supreme Lord, who is known as the so of Srimati Saci-deve,

> be brilliantly situated in the innermost core of your heart.

> Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in

the

> Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation

has

> ever offered before; the most sublime and radiant mellow of

> devotional service, madhurya-rasa (as manjari-bhava), service to

> Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservants. "

>

> And finally, to conclude my humble presentation from the " Sri

> Slokamrtam " of Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj: (from the Brhan-

> Naradiya-Purana 38.126/and Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 17/21)

>

> " harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam

> kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "

> " In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance

> is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no

> other way, no other way " .

>

> my humble thanks, for the moderators and readers allowing me the

> opportunity to remember these sacred verses.

>

> kadaham yamuna-tire, namani tava kirtayan...

> udvaspah pundarikaksa!! racayisyami tandavam

> " O lotus-eyed Krsna, when, upon the banks of the Yamuna, will I

> chant Your holy names and dance like a madman, my eyes brimming

with

> tears of love? "

>

> Mahalaksmi dasi

>

> Dear Vyas,

> In kaliyuga ,the easiest path to follow is to chant the name of the

> Lord---Nama Japa, Nama Smarana...

> Gita: In Meditation,I am Japa.

> Regards,

> In Sai Smaran,

> N K Srinivasan

>

> -

> Dear Sadhaks,

> Life is not bed of Roses goes saying. What is easy for one is very

> tough for someone.

> If mental pleasure is there than Moon light night, scenic

> environment is happiness. The same situation when mind is in agony

> everything appears frustrating.

> In Sat Yug Tapa- In tretha you Japa- in Dwaperyug Yagna and in Kali

> yug " Namasankerthan " (Reciting Name of Bhagavan), says sastras

> (scriptures). But Namasankeethan has to be said with body mind and

> intellect aligned.

> One saint known as Patinathar of recent time said, " my mouth is

> saying your Nama, my hands are doing something else, my eyes are

> looking somewhere, my mind is wondering, Oh Bagavan Shiva grant me

> the boon so that I can fully concentrate on YOU. "

>

> Easiest way for Sadhak is follow foot steps of Gopies. Gopies were

> always talking of Krishna, selling curd by name of Krishna,

churning

> milk singing about Krishna, and when they had time to sit and relax

> they held Satsangh saying leelas of Krishna. That is why Uddhava

> sitting in front of Krishna in Mathura use to bow down towards

> Nandgokul where gopies lived. Uddhava has said to Krishna the

> pranams not for you, Oh Krishna but to Gopies of Brindavan.

>

> There was no food for Namadev children who were crying out of

> hunger. Namadev said to his children, " Vittala Bolo, Vittala Bolo. "

> Dear Sadhaks, Vittala did come as a passer by and cooked food for

> the whole family. This did happen. One can visit Panderpur and see

> Saint Namadev house. Many things people do not believe, then how

can

> faith come ? Even if one says without faith Hare Krishna, Sri

> Krishna multiplies baktha's faith.

>

> Bhagavan said during war in Kuruchetra to Arjuna to shout as, " My

> Baktha will never be forsaken " . But Arjuna shouted, " Krishna Baktha

> will never be forsaked " . Bagavan again said, Arjuna tell that your

> Baktha will not be forsaked and not MY baktha.

> Therefore engage you mind in Shri Krishna at all times. No Japa No

> Tapa is needed, simply become engaged in Him like the Gopies doing

> everything only for Shri Krishna.

> B.Sathyanarayan

>

> --------------------------------

> Does GITA tell 'Tat Twam Asi' ?

> Does it mean " ananya bhava " is self study ?

> Does It mean 'A Hermit can achieve it' ?

> Does a Saint say, " GOD is realised by seeing the creation around " ?

> Or else it's selfishness !

>

> Swapan Purkayastha

> -

> Dear Sir

>

> 1)I sincerely appreciate your reply and my regard for you has

> increased manifold. You are doing a good job by moderating this

> group.

>

> 2)I certainly found your reply to be offensive as such

d

> from the group. However ,unsubscribing from the Group does not mean

> I have anything against anyone. This means only that no purpose

> would be served by continuing to be member of the Group.

>

> 3)I stand firmly on my statement that " there is no easy path all

> path requires same effort " based on and backed by following

> understanding:-

>

> a) While Bhagwan Krishna explains all the paths in Gita ,he

> nowhere indicates or suggests to Arjuna that this is the easier

path.

>

> b) If there was a easier path,Bhagwan Krishna would have

> mentioned that path only and Gita would have been of one chapter

> only.

>

> c) Bhaktimarg seems easy but it is the most difficult because

> human mind is not designed for complete surrender.

>

> 4) From my personal experience of past lives and this life and

> thorough understanding of Jainism ,Buddhism and Hinduism I have

> reasons to believe that there is no easy path.I am one of the very

> few jains who has been so much inspired by Gita that for past six

> years have been actively propagating study of Gita.I recently got

> Astavakra Gita printed and distribute the same to Sadhaks.

>

>

> 5) I will be obliged to receive from you information about easier

> path as mentioned in Gita.

>

> 6) As a mark of respect for you , I am subscribing to the Group

> again.

>

> regards

>

> Ashok Jain

>

>

> -

> shree hari

> ram ram

>

> Ashokji, Thank you ! We are so pleased to read the last part (6)

> and as a matter of fact the entire email ...

>

> There is a definite purpose to be served by this association (with

> Gita Talk). These are not ordinary associations... they are divine

> blessings from Paramatma Himself.

>

> Ashokji, also having this in-depth knowledge of Jainism, Buddhism

> and Hinduism and Astavakra Gita, it will be wonderful to share with

> the group from time to time, to help all sadhaks. Please see if you

> can include references, so sadhaks can do some further study and

> inquiry in their own time.

>

> Your message will be posted to Gita Talk and I am certain you will

> get some insightful replies on the easier path.

>

> We look forward to your participation.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

> --------------------------------

>

>

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Friends

> > 1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but no

> > definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

> > 2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one path

> > over another path is not given.

> > 3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

> > 4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

> > 5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with

> specific

> > reference of Gita sloka.

> >

> > Ashok Jain

> > -----------------------------

> > shree hari

> > ram ram

> >

> > Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji, and

> let

> > us know if you have specific issues with what has been addressed.

> > We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without

furthering

> > the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

> > like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. "

> will

> > require you to do some additional homework to point out why you

> have

> > concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to

so

> > many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

> > Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking

> forward

> > to a more complete response with Gita references.

> >

> > Gita Talk Moderator

> > Ram Ram

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > Thanks regards

> > A K Jain

> > ------------------------------

> > shree hari

> > ram ram

> > Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there

anything

> > offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the trouble ?

> > How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they

> know

> > with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the Universe

> at

> > large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

> > appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does end

> > with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be

something

> > transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again... Thank

> > you in advance !

> >

> > -

> >

> > Gita Talk Moderator

> > Ram Ram

> > -------------------------------

> > In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE

BHAVSAGAR.

> > G.VAIDYANATHAN.

> > --------------------------------

> > shree hari

> > ram ram

> > Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference where

> > this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in

> Gita,

> > but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this will

> be

> > very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

> > group.

> >

> > Gita Talk Moderator

> > Ram Ram

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > To Geeta Talk Moderator

> >

> > I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the

> following

> > para be replaced in place existing para-

> >

> > A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and (iii)

> > realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

> >

> > Thanks

> > Vyas N B

> > --------------------------------

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Hari Om

> > >

> > > The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to

> > talk

> > > with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried

> in

> > > this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

> > >

> > > Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no

other "

> > > sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means

for

> > his

> > > Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai

> > as :-

> > >

> > > Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

> > >

> > > (Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

> > >

> > > Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine)

> creates " ananya

> > > bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

> > > ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also

> of

> > > ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

> > >

> > > Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are

> others

> > > including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences,

> happenings,

> > > mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING

> > ELSE..

> > >

> > > When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all

> > others

> > > except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya

> bhaav " .

> > > The moment he does it :-

> > >

> > > Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

> > >

> > > Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all

> that

> > is

> > > needed for him - Gita 9:22

> > >

> > > Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

> > > death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

> > >

> > > A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

> > > realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

> > >

> > > Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind

> > and

> > > intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and

> > (ii)

> > > he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

> > >

> > > It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to

> > offer

> > > to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water

etc

> > > with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

> > >

> > > If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to

> offer ,

> > > then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do,

> > give.

> > > etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

> > >

> > > If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

> > > guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the

> bondages

> > > and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

> > >

> > > Can there be a simpler thing? No !

> > >

> > > As simple as that ! !

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > >

> > > Vyas N B

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > 1. Sahaja Yoga.

> > > 2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

> > > 3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

> > >

> > > Rameshwar Sabhlok

> > >

> > >

> > > -------------------------

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > NARAYAN NARAYAN

> > > >

> > > > In English

> > > >

> > > > In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of

> life?

> > > > (God Realisation)

> > > > Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

> > > >

> > > > In Hindi

> > > >

> > > > KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN

SA

> > HAI-

> > > > (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> > > > GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

> > > >

> > > > R.C.VYAS

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > >

> > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > > responses

> > > > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

> > posted.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged -

at

> > > least

> > > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji

> or

> > > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > > >

> > > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> respecting

> > > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed

> > say

> > > one

> > > > (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

> > > >

> > > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

> the

> > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

shlokas

> > > >

> > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > >

> > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > > organizations.

> > > >

> > > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

> > author

> > > > (but not links to other sites).

> > > >

> > > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

> phone

> > > > number, address etc.

> > > >

> > > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

> individual

> > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > >

> > > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> > > posted

> > > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking

Shrimad

> > > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > > >

> > > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> > content

> > > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> > question

> > > > being asked.

> > > >

> > > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

> youth,

> > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of

> only

> > > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > > >

> > > > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or

> > about

> > > the

> > > > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> > > > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> > > >

> > > > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in

> > this

> > > > spiritual learning and sharing.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > MODERATOR

> > > > Ram Ram

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

I am indeed privileged to witness one of the finest sessions of

deliberations. Each and every participant indeed has contributed in

an optimum manner and has shared best of him - in a controlled and

focused manner.

 

I may state here that none of the paths are really difficult-

reason: kindness of Paramatma and premium /privilege attached with

human body. Both Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga in fact are very easy,

but devotion and bhakti is the easiest among these very easy paths.

 

How all the paths are easy?

 

In KARMA YOGA - Whatever situation comes before a striver in the

form of Duty - to do that duty diligently and renounce the results

of that deed of doing your duty - WHAT IS THE DIFFICULTY? There is

no difficulty because Duty is " What you can do easily and what you

should do " - Gita 2:47

 

Is not it easy to do your duty - when it is only what you can do and

what you should do ?

 

In JNANA YOGA - This body is changing every moment, it is going

towards death because it is ASAT (unreal) but the knower of this

ASAT is SAT (self)- WHAT IS DIFFICULTY IN KNOWING THIS? Almost every

person on this earth who slightly believes in existence of some

super natural power knows that this body is going to die, but the

resident of this body (self) is going to stay ! Gita 2:11 to 30

 

Is not it easy to know?

 

However Bhakti is the easiest among these easy paths of

realisation ! !

 

Now we should move towards the means (saadhans) and processes

involved in these yogas and find out as to how bhakti is proved to

be the easiest there also. In the end we should address Sadhak

Ashokji's queries one by one. (Welcome Ashokji to this askesis of

knowledge to the world of questing aspirants - Gita Talk Group)

 

Bhakti has to be established as the easiest - because Krishna

Himself has called it to be " easy " (sulabh) _ Gita 8 : 14. How can

the voice of Paramatma be faulty?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

 

Hari OM...

 

What about for those who don't even have bhakti ananya bhaav..

The lord has made it simpler....

 

The simplest path as mentioned in the KALISANTARANA UPANISHAD is the

Maha Mantra

HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE

 

 

Hari Om ! At the end of Dvapara-Yuga, Narada went to Brahma and

addressed him thus: " O Lord, how shall I, roaming over the earth, be

able to across Kali ? " To which Brahma thus replied: " Well asked.

Hearken to that which all Shrutis (the Vedas) keep secret and

hidden, through which one may cross the Samsara (mundane existence)

of Kali. He shakes off (the evil effects of) Kali through the mere

uttering of the name of the Lord Narayana, who is the primeval

Purusha " . Again Narada asked Brahma: " What is the name ? " To which

Hiranyagarbha (Brahma) replied thus:

 

1. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

2. These sixteen names (words) are destructive of the evil effects

of Kali. No better means than this is to be seen in all the Vedas.

These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force

which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the

sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines

fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone)

shines. "

 

as is propogated by Caintanya Mahaprabhu....

 

harer nama harer nama

harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva

nasty eva gatir anyatha

 

In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the only means of deliverance

is the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. There is no other

way. There is no other way. There is no other way.

(Brhan-naradiya Purana 38.126)

 

What does the great Goswami Tulasidas say

nahi.n kali karama na bhagati bibekU. rAma nAma avala.nbana ekU ..

In kaliyuga there is no bhakti and vivek and karma...only RAMA NAMA

 

There is no easier way than RAMA NAMA.

 

The great saints...Tukaram, Mirabai, Naamadev, Sant Gyaneshvar,

NarsiMehta, Samartha Ram Das, Shri RamKrishna Paramhansa have all

expounded the above..

 

Should there be still any doubt???

 

There is also a shloka abt people who doubt the superiority in

Kaliyuga...Cannot remember at this stage..

 

Glories to Nama sankirtanam...The Yuga Dharma

 

Jai Shri Ram

Deepak Vinod

 

---

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

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>

> From Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> Easiest Path

>

> Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

>

> Ashokji's question about the easiest path is quite pertinent. In

> fact, there are many do's and don'ts for the Karma (Action,

Selfless

> Service), Dhyaan Yoga (Meditation) and the Gyan (Knowledge) Margs

> (path). The eligibility of a person to follow/perform the

> prescriptions of these Margas is also very stringent, so also the

> processes.

>

> For example, for the eligibility of a person to follow the Karma

> Marg and the associated rituals, there are several considerations

to

> take care of, like the place where these are being pursued, time

> when it is done, source of money which is to be used and how it has

> been acquired, the priest who is conducting a ritual, his capacity

> to pronounce the mantras correctly etc. etc. This is very very

> difficult to fulfill.

>

> Even in Yoga (Dhyana) Marg, one has to cross several stages like

> Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharanaa, Dhyana, until

> Samadhi, each of which is very difficult to perform and master.

>

> Gyan Marg, is a path suited for those whose intellects are highly

> developed to be able to discriminate between the real and the

> unreal, the ephemeral and the eternal etc. Secondly, the Gyana

marga

> involves renouncing impermanent material things as well as the

> impermanent distractions related to patriotic interests. The person

> who wants to go in this path must have purified his mind to such an

> extent that he should have the capability of one-pointedness. He

> should have control of mind (shama), control of the sense organs

> (dama), Titikshhaa (Patience, Endurance) practice four `Sadhana-

> chatushtayam'. Perhaps one in a billion may pass those tests

> prescribed in the above Margas, if at all. Not to mention, even a

> person of the caliber of Arjuna did not have his mind and intellect

> stable enough and continued to pose his dilemma before Bhagwan

until

> he heard the final words from Him.

>

> And even on having done so, the stage up to which the follower of

> the above Margas can rise is limited.

>

> However in in Bhakti (Devotion and Love) Marg alone there are no

> prescriptions/ conditions of time, place, money/resources…... Any

> one with a longing for God and with pure mind can follow it with a

> sense of love and devotion. In fact there is nothing to be done

> except remembering Him all the time with love. Even if a devotee

> wishes to offer something, in Gita, Bhagwan himself has confessed

> that he would just accept anything- a leaf, flower, water, fruit…..

> when offered with love (Gita 9.26). He has said that all the

actions

> done by a devotee should be just surrendered unto him (9.27) and a

> devotee has to be fully absorbed in His thoughts with full faith

> (Gita 9.34). Bhagwan finally advises that renouncing all

> faiths/religions if one takes refuge in Him, He shall liberate the

> person from all bonds of dharma and adharma alike (Gita 18.66).

>

> Thus, compared to any other path, this path of devotion is simpler.

>

> Regards.

>

> K.N.Sharma

>

>

> Namasthe, This is my humble opinion based on my interpretation of

> your question " In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this

> ocean of life? (God Realisation). " .

>

> I do not consider 'crossing this ocean of life' and 'God

> Realisation' are somewhat little different expressions, meaning,

> once a person becomes God realised, there is no question about life

> being an ocean and having a need to cross it, since the crossing of

> the ocean or any activity just becomes the normal activity that is

> fully surrendered to God.

>

> Coming the meaning of becoming easily 'God Realized'..can be

> understood under Meditation (Gita 6th chapter) by just remembering

> that SUPREME all the time in every action of ours and surrendering

> our action, and the fruits of our actions, and complete of

ourselves

> to that Supreme/God.

>

> Regards,

> Bharathi

> --------------------------------

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

> The initial question being asked is :

> In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

> (God Realisation). Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which

> verse) ?

>

> This question has immense depth, but is also a very direct

question,

> that requires deep understanding but at the same time not evading

> the directness of the question. The question, calls for taking

a stand on what Shri Krishna has said on this subject, very clearly,

very specifically and with shloka references. Although the English

translation may have lacked in some clarity in terminology / words

used, let us respect the seeker, and his wishes.

>

> Also, I believe the responses to this question so far have also

been

> very direct, insightful with specific references in Gita. Thank

you

> all for carrying on God's work and in being an instrument in

> performing the highest seva (service) of all sevas.

>

> From Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

>

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> First, I admire Moderatorji who is doing an outstanding job of

> keeping the group together and focused by working so hard. In all

> our differing views, we are journeying together unknowingly at

times

> toward the goal. It helps us.

>

> I am equally grateful shri Ashokji has rejoined us. I have always

> appreciated his contributions to the group.

>

> I am compelled to speak my heart. Sometimes I get the feeling that

> we may be carried away in quoting Gita references and get involved

> in literal interpretations overlooking new insights appropriate in

> our times. I apologize as I may be wrong in assuming this for

> others.

>

> I know well that the teaching of Gita is timeless, however, the

> insights are always evolutionary in nature even as the teaching

> remains same across generations. Many more contemporary

commentaries

> on Gita proves this. Human Consciousness seems to have built-in

> evolutionary impulse. For this to happen we need to also bring in

> the inner experience based inputs to our acquired scriptural

> knowledge.

>

> To me, to say one path is superior or inferior, easier or harder

> than others has lesser appeals than to say whatever path one

follows

> based on ones deepest inclination with longing for Truth-God is

more

> appropriate for that sadhaka. In this period of technological

> growth, and prevailing level of intellectualism, for some of us

> inquiry into " what am I? " may be more logical in the beginning

until

> such time as one exhausts mind totally into which God invites

> Himself. For some of us Devotion and Love to Personalized God in

> some form may be more appropriate and still others may be inclined

> to serve fellow human beings doing Karma Yoga until maturation in

> their pursuits find fruition in the realization of Truth. To say

> that Ego remains in pursuits of selfless karma or Gyan(Self-

> knowledge) while it is gone in Bhakta may not be whole truth. It is

> so subtle it can creep up in Bhakta as well as Gyani or Karmi. When

> one realizes there is no Gyani, only Gyan, no Bhakta, only Bhakti,

> no Karmi only selflessness, there remains no one to be anything!

>

> Krishnaji has said many things at different times upholding their

> values in one's Sadhana. He also says that if one cannot do any of

> these, then surrender unto " Me " is best for such a one. In my

> understanding He perhaps didn't imply just because it is easier to

> surrender, just do it. I feel that path being harder or easier is

> not in the path itself, sadhaka's inner makeup plays a big role.

> Seemingly easier paths prescribed in general for everyone may be

> difficult when being practiced otherwise, so it seems, Krishnaji

> wouldn't have mentioned all paths.

>

> Sadhaka as an individual doesn't choose, the choice is the natural

> outcome of being open to whatever one comes across that one's heart

> and mind cry out in unison: " yes, yes, give me more " !

> Nonetheless, with equal respect to all who are asking questions and

> those who are sharing their understanding via postings, I

appreciate

> their wisdom and am grateful!

>

> Namaskars..Pratap

> (Pratap Bhatt)

>

> Hari OM.

> I am not able to give any reference from Gita. However certain

> other refernces are being given .

>

> The Greatness of Namasankeerthan

> " NAAHAM VASAAMI VAIKUNTE

> NAYOHI HRUDHAYE RAVAU

> MATH BHAKTHA YATHRA GAAYANTHI

> THATHRA THISTAAMI NAARATHA "

>

> Bhagavan Sri Krishna emphatically told Naradha that he always

> resides with his devotees performing Namasankeerthan. It may be

> noted that Namasankeerthan is a key sadhana available in kaliyuga

to

> reach god as other ways and means like doing yagna and yaagas are

> more complex and need other things like money and manpower.

> Namasankeerthan does not require anything else except pure devotion

> towards Him. Hence it has been recognised as one of the purest,

> easiest and surest path to reach God for any aspirant irrespective

> of caste or creed. Many religious scripts and hymns have directed

us

> towards this path.

>

> Namasankeerthan is a form of bhakthi where the glory of Almighty

and

> His divine activities are sung with greatest involvement and

> dedication. The main feature of traditional namasankeerthan is the

> Divyanama Sankeerthana, also known as Jagannatha Pradakshina. Lord

> Krishna is invoked in a five-faced silver lamp and the devotees go

> round it singing and dancing unmindful of their state and status in

> a blissful mood. The Namasankeerthan thus evolves a new method of

> purifying your body, soul and your mental status. It also

inculcates

> in the minds of people the very basic social essentials like

> endurance, perseverance, adherence, and adaptability that are of

> paramount importance in your daily life.

>

> G. Vaidyanathan

> -

-

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > At the outset I must admire the depth involved in the question.

It

> > is extremely compact question and is like an ocean in itself and

> > still brief and focused. Such questions in their own right bring

> the

> > best out of deliberations and out of Jnana Yagya which by

> > participating in this Gita Talk group we all are performing.

> >

> > Sadhak Vaidynathan has also indeed in minimum words given one of

> > the easiest means of Bhakti and realisation. Though his comment

is

> > based basically on Ram Charitmanas and Shrimad Bhagwatam but in

> > Gita 9:14 and Gita 11:36 you can find confirmation.

> >

> > I am also addressing in this posting questions raised by Sadhak

> > Ashok Jain.

> >

> > In fact Bhakti both as a means and as and end is the easiest

among

> > the three major paths plus Meditation (Dhyaan Yoga).

> >

> > Krishna confirms in Gita 5:2 that Karma Yoga is better than Jnana

> > Yoga. Karma Yoga is also better than Dhyaan Yoga - Gita 12:12.

> > Krishna also states difficulties in Jnana Yoga in 12:4.

> >

> > But Bhakti Yoga is the easiest. This has been categorically

> > confirmed by Krishna in Gita 12:2 with reference to Jnana Yoga

and

> > in Gita 6:47 with reference to all other Yogas.

> >

> > Reason is that in this Yoga a Bhakta's entire responsibilty is

> > taken over by Bhagwaan - whether it is making him cross Bhavsagar

> > (ocean of birth and death, this ever changing abode of sorrow -

> the

> > dukhalayam - this world) " Very Quickly " - Gita 12:6-7 or

destroying

> > his sins - Gita 18:66 , or granting him equanimity - Gita 10:10

or

> > destroying his illusion and giving him knowledge - Gita 10:11 ,

or

> > taking him out of power of Maya - Gita 13:14 and making available

> to

> > him all that is necessary for accomplishment of Yoga - 9:21 etc.

> > Bhakta does not have to do any thing to get the above things. All

> > others have to do/know something of their own.

> >

> > Then in Bhakti Equanimity is not the essence - a bhakta does not

> > have to strive for it, he gets it automatically as gift from

> > Bhagwaan.

> >

> > Karma Yogi needs a settled intellect to get equanimity - which in

> > fact tests the Yogi quite a bit. Biggest challenge before Jnana

> Yogi

> > is destruction of ego - Gita 12:4. Bhakta is required to change

his

> > ego, which is simpler to do than purifying it (Karma Yoga) or

> > eliminating it (Jnana Yoga) - Gita 12:4. In Dhyaan Yoga a lot of

> > disciplines have to be observed - Gita 6:11 to 6:17.

> > Bhakta first renounces his " mineness " with the world, then by

> > automatic operation of law the ego gets renounced. To renounce

ego

> > anyday is more difficult. Jnani has to first renounce ego and

then

> > automatically his " mineness " gets renounced.

> >

> > Bhakta simply changes his ego from " I am of World " to " I am of

> > Bhagwaan " and renounces his mineness with the world - ONLY by his

> > inner bhava (inner intention/sentiment). He starts seeing all

> around

> > him to be of Bhagwaan - including near and dear ones. It then

> > takes " kshipram " time (less than a second) for him to become

> > Dharmatma - Gita 9:31. Bhagwaan makes Arjuna swear that a Bhakta

> > shall not fall/fail in his spiritual journey - Gita 9:31- thus a

> > Bhakta never becomes " yoga bhrashta " as described in Gita 6:37-

38.

> >

> > The means of Bhakti are far far simpler than in other yogas and

> > manifestation of " divine traits " as described in Gita 16:1 to

16:4

> > are easier to get by for Bhakta. We shall deal with the same in

> next

> > postings.

> >

> > Once Bhagwaan Himself uses the word " sulabh " (easy) for Bhakti ,

> > then there is no way it can be difficult. It is indeed the

easiest.

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > Vyas N B

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Jai Shri Krishna,

> >

> > Parmaatma in all places, in all things, at all times, and in

> > everyone (Hari vyaapak Sarvatra Samaana). Therefore, there is no

> > need for doing anything to realize Him.

> >

> > We firmly believe and are ingrained in the idea that if worldly

> > things are achieved after so much of efforts, then how could the

> > supreme Parmaatma be realized immediately. This belief only is

> > delaying us from meeting Him. If we believe that we will meet Him

> in

> > future after pursuing Sadhana over a period of time, then we will

> > meet Him in future only. If we firmly believe (Bhava) that we

will

> > find Him right now, then He will come to us right now only.

Krishna

> > confirms so (Gita 4:11). The delay is not in realizing Him, but

is

> > in our Bhavana only (inner expression, belief, feeling).

> >

> > One evening a cultured king was walking on his terrace observing

> the

> > movements on the road. He saw a saint walking in his own world

> > unaware of the surroundings on the road. He ordered his men to

> bring

> > the saint to him on the terrace. The men pulled the saint on the

> > terrace with the help of a rope without any delay. The king

> > apologized to the saint for his men and requested the saint to

> > answer his question that `how can we meet Parmaatma instantly'.

The

> > saint told the king that you already know this answer yourself.

The

> > king asked how ? The saint said that if I feel like meeting you,

> the

> > king, then there are a lot of obstacles and delays in the process

> > and it may never ever be possible at times. But when you felt

like

> > meeting me, then did it take time ? The saint then said that O

> king,

> > similarly if Parmaatma feels like meeting us then there will not

be

> > any delay. Then the king asked how will Parmaatma feel like

meeting

> > us ? The saint asked the king that how did you feel like meeting

> > me ? The king said that I saw that you were walking in your own

> > world without paying any attention to the road, market, shops,

> > house, people, happenings etc. so I felt like meeting you. Then

the

> > saint told that O king, similarly if you focus only on Parmaatma

> > without looking at anyone else, if you cannot remain without Him,

> > then Parmaatma will feel like meeting you and He will meet you

> > instantly.

> >

> > We have created barriers in Parmaatma realization by beliefs such

> > as – He can be met only by saints, He can be met only if we go

and

> > reside in forest, How can we meet Him without a Guru (Preceptor)?

> > These days there are no real Gurus to lead us to the path of His

> > realization so How will we meet Him ? If we are not destined then

> > how will we meet Him ? Since we are not eligible how will we

meet ?

> > Our Karma are not such that we can meet Him ? etc. etc.. We have

> > suppressed Parmaatma below these various barriers. In such a

> > situation what can Parmaatma do, how can He meet us?

> >

> > It is absolutely wrong to assume that Parmaatma will be realized

in

> > exchange for some qualification (Yogyata). It is a rule that cost

> of

> > any thing we buy in the market in exchange for money is always

less

> > than the money we paid for. Similarly, if we believe that

Parmaatma

> > can be realized in exchange for certain special Yogyata or Sadhan

> or

> > Austerities, Charity etc. then He will be less in value compared

to

> > these things, which he is not.

> >

> > When something is ample in supply and the demand is less then

that

> > thing is available in the market for very cheap price, because

the

> > seller is interested in disposing off the stock. Similarly, it is

> > very easy to get Him in Kaliyuga because now there are very few

> > takers for Him. Therefore, we should not have such Bhava

> > (sentiments) that how can Parmaatma be realized easily in

Kaliyuga.

> > Just determine firmly that come what may, we have to realize

> > Parmatma.

> >

> > If we engage in purifying ourselves first then it will delay His

> > realization. Instead of our efforts, His grace will purify us

> > instantly. If a child is fully covered with mud etc. and comes to

> > the mother, then the mother herself cleans him.

> >

> > No knowledge or qualification but only mineness in Parmaatma is

> > essential to attract Parmaatma, just as a child attracts his

> mother.

> > This mineness has great powers to attract Parmaatma. It is only

due

> > to mineness that Prahlaad had with Parmaatma that Parmaatma

> appeared

> > from a stone pillar. Mirabai said " Mere to Giridhar Gopal, Dusro

Na

> > Koi Re " .

> >

> > The delay in His realization is being caused ONLY due to lack of

> our

> > INTENSE DESIRE to realize Him, otherwise there is no delay in

> > meeting Him. Such intense desire is only possible if we renounce

> the

> > worldly desires. We can realize Him by Ananya Bhakti (only

desiring

> > Him) – Gita 11:54. Then, it is His responsibility to address any

> > deficiency in the Sadhana of a Bhakta. If a Bhakta forgets Him in

> > his last moments for some reason, then He Himself reminds the

> Bhakta

> > of Him.

> >

> > Krishna has declared Bhaktiyoga as superior to all other means

and

> > Bhaktayogi as best amongst all the Sadhakas (Gita 6:47 and 12:2).

> >

> > Narayana Narayana

> >

> > Rajendra J. Bohra

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Dear sadhaks,

> >

> > My humble respects, and my foolish attempts to offer

something

> > to this discussion....from the Caitanya Caritamrta.....(Adi2.1)

> >

> > sri caitanya prabhum vande balo 'pi yad-anugrahat

> > taren nana mata graha vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

> > " I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy

> > even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive

> > truths, which is full of the crocodiles of various useless

> theories. "

> >

> > from the Ananta-Samhita/Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu bhagavata:

> >

> > krsnas caitanya-gaurangau gaura-candrah saci-sutah

> > prabhu-gaurau gaura-harir namani bhakti-dani me

> > " I bestow prema-bhakti upon whoever chants My names such as

Krsna,

> > Caitanya, Gauranga, Gaura-candra, Saci-suta, Prabhu, Gaura, and

> > Gaura-hari. "

> > from the Sri Vidagdha-madhava, of Rupa Gosvami

> >

> > anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

> > samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

> > harih purata-sundara-dyuti kadamba-sandipitah

> > sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

> >

> > " May the Supreme Lord, who is known as the so of Srimati Saci-

deve,

> > be brilliantly situated in the innermost core of your heart.

> > Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in

> the

> > Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation

> has

> > ever offered before; the most sublime and radiant mellow of

> > devotional service, madhurya-rasa (as manjari-bhava), service to

> > Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservants. "

> >

> > And finally, to conclude my humble presentation from the " Sri

> > Slokamrtam " of Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj: (from the Brhan-

> > Naradiya-Purana 38.126/and Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 17/21)

> >

> > " harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam

> > kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "

> > " In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of

deliverance

> > is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no

> > other way, no other way " .

> >

> > my humble thanks, for the moderators and readers allowing me the

> > opportunity to remember these sacred verses.

> >

> > kadaham yamuna-tire, namani tava kirtayan...

> > udvaspah pundarikaksa!! racayisyami tandavam

> > " O lotus-eyed Krsna, when, upon the banks of the Yamuna, will I

> > chant Your holy names and dance like a madman, my eyes brimming

> with

> > tears of love? "

> >

> > Mahalaksmi dasi

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Dear Vyas,

> > In kaliyuga ,the easiest path to follow is to chant the name of

the

> > Lord---Nama Japa, Nama Smarana...

> > Gita: In Meditation,I am Japa.

> > Regards,

> > In Sai Smaran,

> > N K Srinivasan

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > Dear Sadhaks,

> > Life is not bed of Roses goes saying. What is easy for one is

very

> > tough for someone.

> > If mental pleasure is there than Moon light night, scenic

> > environment is happiness. The same situation when mind is in

agony

> > everything appears frustrating.

> > In Sat Yug Tapa- In tretha you Japa- in Dwaperyug Yagna and in

Kali

> > yug " Namasankerthan " (Reciting Name of Bhagavan), says sastras

> > (scriptures). But Namasankeethan has to be said with body mind

and

> > intellect aligned.

> > One saint known as Patinathar of recent time said, " my mouth is

> > saying your Nama, my hands are doing something else, my eyes are

> > looking somewhere, my mind is wondering, Oh Bagavan Shiva grant

me

> > the boon so that I can fully concentrate on YOU. "

> >

> > Easiest way for Sadhak is follow foot steps of Gopies. Gopies

were

> > always talking of Krishna, selling curd by name of Krishna,

> churning

> > milk singing about Krishna, and when they had time to sit and

relax

> > they held Satsangh saying leelas of Krishna. That is why Uddhava

> > sitting in front of Krishna in Mathura use to bow down towards

> > Nandgokul where gopies lived. Uddhava has said to Krishna the

> > pranams not for you, Oh Krishna but to Gopies of Brindavan.

> >

> > There was no food for Namadev children who were crying out of

> > hunger. Namadev said to his children, " Vittala Bolo, Vittala

Bolo. "

> > Dear Sadhaks, Vittala did come as a passer by and cooked food for

> > the whole family. This did happen. One can visit Panderpur and

see

> > Saint Namadev house. Many things people do not believe, then how

> can

> > faith come ? Even if one says without faith Hare Krishna, Sri

> > Krishna multiplies baktha's faith.

> >

> > Bhagavan said during war in Kuruchetra to Arjuna to shout as, "

My

> > Baktha will never be forsaken " . But Arjuna shouted, " Krishna

Baktha

> > will never be forsaked " . Bagavan again said, Arjuna tell that

your

> > Baktha will not be forsaked and not MY baktha.

> > Therefore engage you mind in Shri Krishna at all times. No Japa

No

> > Tapa is needed, simply become engaged in Him like the Gopies

doing

> > everything only for Shri Krishna.

> > B.Sathyanarayan

> >

> > --------------------------------

> > Does GITA tell 'Tat Twam Asi' ?

> > Does it mean " ananya bhava " is self study ?

> > Does It mean 'A Hermit can achieve it' ?

> > Does a Saint say, " GOD is realised by seeing the creation

around " ?

> > Or else it's selfishness !

> >

> > Swapan Purkayastha

> > --------------------------------

--

> > Dear Sir

> >

> > 1)I sincerely appreciate your reply and my regard for you has

> > increased manifold. You are doing a good job by moderating this

> > group.

> >

> > 2)I certainly found your reply to be offensive as such

> d

> > from the group. However ,unsubscribing from the Group does not

mean

> > I have anything against anyone. This means only that no purpose

> > would be served by continuing to be member of the Group.

> >

> > 3)I stand firmly on my statement that " there is no easy path all

> > path requires same effort " based on and backed by following

> > understanding:-

> >

> > a) While Bhagwan Krishna explains all the paths in Gita ,he

> > nowhere indicates or suggests to Arjuna that this is the easier

> path.

> >

> > b) If there was a easier path,Bhagwan Krishna would have

> > mentioned that path only and Gita would have been of one chapter

> > only.

> >

> > c) Bhaktimarg seems easy but it is the most difficult

because

> > human mind is not designed for complete surrender.

> >

> > 4) From my personal experience of past lives and this life and

> > thorough understanding of Jainism ,Buddhism and Hinduism I have

> > reasons to believe that there is no easy path.I am one of the

very

> > few jains who has been so much inspired by Gita that for past six

> > years have been actively propagating study of Gita.I recently got

> > Astavakra Gita printed and distribute the same to Sadhaks.

> >

> >

> > 5) I will be obliged to receive from you information about easier

> > path as mentioned in Gita.

> >

> > 6) As a mark of respect for you , I am subscribing to the Group

> > again.

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Ashok Jain

> >

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > shree hari

> > ram ram

> >

> > Ashokji, Thank you ! We are so pleased to read the last part (6)

> > and as a matter of fact the entire email ...

> >

> > There is a definite purpose to be served by this association

(with

> > Gita Talk). These are not ordinary associations... they are

divine

> > blessings from Paramatma Himself.

> >

> > Ashokji, also having this in-depth knowledge of Jainism,

Buddhism

> > and Hinduism and Astavakra Gita, it will be wonderful to share

with

> > the group from time to time, to help all sadhaks. Please see if

you

> > can include references, so sadhaks can do some further study and

> > inquiry in their own time.

> >

> > Your message will be posted to Gita Talk and I am certain you

will

> > get some insightful replies on the easier path.

> >

> > We look forward to your participation.

> >

> > Gita Talk Moderator

> > Ram Ram

> > --------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Friends

> > > 1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but

no

> > > definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

> > > 2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one

path

> > > over another path is not given.

> > > 3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

> > > 4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

> > > 5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with

> > specific

> > > reference of Gita sloka.

> > >

> > > Ashok Jain

> > > -----------------------------

> > > shree hari

> > > ram ram

> > >

> > > Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji,

and

> > let

> > > us know if you have specific issues with what has been

addressed.

> > > We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without

> furthering

> > > the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

> > > like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. "

> > will

> > > require you to do some additional homework to point out why you

> > have

> > > concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to

> so

> > > many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

> > > Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking

> > forward

> > > to a more complete response with Gita references.

> > >

> > > Gita Talk Moderator

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

> > > Thanks regards

> > > A K Jain

> > > ------------------------------

> > > shree hari

> > > ram ram

> > > Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there

> anything

> > > offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the

trouble ?

> > > How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they

> > know

> > > with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the

Universe

> > at

> > > large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

> > > appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does

end

> > > with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be

> something

> > > transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again...

Thank

> > > you in advance !

> > >

> > > -

> > >

> > > Gita Talk Moderator

> > > Ram Ram

> > > ------------------------------

-

> > > In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE

> BHAVSAGAR.

> > > G.VAIDYANATHAN.

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > shree hari

> > > ram ram

> > > Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference

where

> > > this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in

> > Gita,

> > > but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this

will

> > be

> > > very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

> > > group.

> > >

> > > Gita Talk Moderator

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

-

> > > To Geeta Talk Moderator

> > >

> > > I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the

> > following

> > > para be replaced in place existing para-

> > >

> > > A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and

(iii)

> > > realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Vyas N B

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hari Om

> > > >

> > > > The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me

to

> > > talk

> > > > with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have

tried

> > in

> > > > this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

> > > >

> > > > Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no

> other "

> > > > sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means

> for

> > > his

> > > > Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by

Mirabai

> > > as :-

> > > >

> > > > Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

> > > >

> > > > (Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

> > > >

> > > > Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine)

> > creates " ananya

> > > > bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan)

is

> > > > ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are

also

> > of

> > > > ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

> > > >

> > > > Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are

> > others

> > > > including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences,

> > happenings,

> > > > mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING

> > > ELSE..

> > > >

> > > > When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all

> > > others

> > > > except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya

> > bhaav " .

> > > > The moment he does it :-

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all

> > that

> > > is

> > > > needed for him - Gita 9:22

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

> > > > death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

> > > >

> > > > A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and

(iii)

> > > > realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his

mind

> > > and

> > > > intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7

and

> > > (ii)

> > > > he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

> > > >

> > > > It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly

to

> > > offer

> > > > to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water

> etc

> > > > with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

> > > >

> > > > If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to

> > offer ,

> > > > then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do,

> > > give.

> > > > etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

> > > >

> > > > If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it

is

> > > > guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the

> > bondages

> > > > and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

> > > >

> > > > Can there be a simpler thing? No !

> > > >

> > > > As simple as that ! !

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > > >

> > > > Vyas N B

> > > > -------------------------

> > > >

> > > > 1. Sahaja Yoga.

> > > > 2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

> > > > 3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace &

Harmony !

> > > >

> > > > Rameshwar Sabhlok

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > NARAYAN NARAYAN

> > > > >

> > > > > In English

> > > > >

> > > > > In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of

> > life?

> > > > > (God Realisation)

> > > > > Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

> > > > >

> > > > > In Hindi

> > > > >

> > > > > KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN

> SA

> > > HAI-

> > > > > (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> > > > > GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

> > > > >

> > > > > R.C.VYAS

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > -

> > > > >

> > > > > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > > > responses

> > > > > which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

> > > posted.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged -

> at

> > > > least

> > > > > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote

Gitaji

> > or

> > > > > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > respecting

> > > > > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should

exceed

> > > say

> > > > one

> > > > > (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

to

> > the

> > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

> shlokas

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > > > organizations.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > > > > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

> > > author

> > > > > (but not links to other sites).

> > > > >

> > > > > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

> > phone

> > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > individual

> > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > >

> > > > > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will

be

> > > > posted

> > > > > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking

> Shrimad

> > > > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > > > >

> > > > > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> > > content

> > > > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> > > question

> > > > > being asked.

> > > > >

> > > > > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

> > youth,

> > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of

> > only

> > > > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with

Sanskrit

> > > > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak

or

> > > about

> > > > the

> > > > > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest /

sadhna /

> > > > > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> > > > >

> > > > > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks

in

> > > this

> > > > > spiritual learning and sharing.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Friends

 

1)Let every Sadhak have the ability to differentiate, discriminate

and choose what is useful and discard what is not useful. (Hansa to

Moti Chuge)

 

2)No doubt Bhaktimarg (Path of Love and Devotion) is superior and

more beneficial to Sadhak as Bhagwan takes total care of his

devotees.

3)Regarding whether it is easiest, Bhakti Sutra of Narad says:-

 

a)1st Sutra - Now, we explain Bhakti; after recognising that KAM

(physical) and PREM (mental/emotional)are not enough, we explain

Bhakti.

 

b)2nd Sutra - Bhakti is PARAM PREM RUPA

Highest, limitless, infinite, exclusive love for God. Meera's -

Doosra na koi. In my words- Unmad, madness, blind, illogical.

 

c)3rd Sutra - Amrit Swarupa - immortal

 

d)4th Sutra - Ya labdham punam siddho bhavati, amtito bhavati,

tripto bhavati

By getting this one becomes siddh, immortal and satisfied /

contended.

- Siddho - realisation of potential/ purpose

- amrito - experiencing immortality - deathlessness

- tripto - no exact english word - every life we are searching for

some thing. Our search stops

 

e)5th Sutra

After getting Bhakti, person has no desire, no grief, no

rejoicement, no subjective reactions, no excitement or overpowering

emotions.

 

The pre-requisites of Bhaktimarg are helpful.

4)Suggest study of Bhakti-Sutra. It is intoxicating.

 

As mentioned in 1st para, if you find anything useful take it, rest

ignore.

 

regards and love

 

Ashok Jain

-

 

There are no paths , there is only Life happening. Life is going

nowhere, it is acheiving nothing, it simply is unfolding within the

eternal moment.

There is no one to get anywhere as all that is is Life.

Avasa

Adrian Meyers

 

 

Shree Hari

Adrian, what exactly do you mean? Part of the question was,what is the easiest

path to God (Self) Realization. Additionally, what is the easiest path to cross

the ocean of life? Based on your statement, is there such a thing as

Realization, or Nirvana, or Moksha, or liberation, or salvation in this life ?

Is there any aim / objective of life? any aim of this particular life form

(human birth) ? any significance at all ? Please elaborate.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

-

 

Hari Om

 

I am indeed privileged to witness one of the finest sessions of

deliberations. Each and every participant indeed has contributed in

an optimum manner and has shared best of him - in a controlled and

focused manner.

 

I may state here that none of the paths are really difficult-

reason: kindness of Paramatma and premium /privilege attached with

human body. Both Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga in fact are very easy,

but devotion and bhakti is the easiest among these very easy paths.

 

How all the paths are easy?

 

In KARMA YOGA - Whatever situation comes before a striver in the

form of Duty - to do that duty diligently and renounce the results

of that deed of doing your duty - WHAT IS THE DIFFICULTY? There is

no difficulty because Duty is " What you can do easily and what you

should do " - Gita 2:47

 

Is not it easy to do your duty - when it is only what you can do and

what you should do ?

 

In JNANA YOGA - This body is changing every moment, it is going

towards death because it is ASAT (unreal) but the knower of this

ASAT is SAT (self)- WHAT IS DIFFICULTY IN KNOWING THIS? Almost every

person on this earth who slightly believes in existence of some

super natural power knows that this body is going to die, but the

resident of this body (self) is going to stay ! Gita 2:11 to 30

 

Is not it easy to know?

 

However Bhakti is the easiest among these easy paths of

realisation ! !

 

Now we should move towards the means (saadhans) and processes

involved in these yogas and find out as to how bhakti is proved to

be the easiest there also. In the end we should address Sadhak

Ashokji's queries one by one. (Welcome Ashokji to this askesis of

knowledge to the world of questing aspirants - Gita Talk Group)

 

Bhakti has to be established as the easiest - because Krishna

Himself has called it to be " easy " (sulabh) _ Gita 8 : 14. How can

the voice of Paramatma be faulty?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

 

Hari OM...

 

What about for those who don't even have bhakti ananya bhaav..

The lord has made it simpler....

 

The simplest path as mentioned in the KALISANTARANA UPANISHAD is the

Maha Mantra

HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE

 

 

Hari Om ! At the end of Dvapara-Yuga, Narada went to Brahma and

addressed him thus: " O Lord, how shall I, roaming over the earth, be

able to across Kali ? " To which Brahma thus replied: " Well asked.

Hearken to that which all Shrutis (the Vedas) keep secret and

hidden, through which one may cross the Samsara (mundane existence)

of Kali. He shakes off (the evil effects of) Kali through the mere

uttering of the name of the Lord Narayana, who is the primeval

Purusha " . Again Narada asked Brahma: " What is the name ? " To which

Hiranyagarbha (Brahma) replied thus:

 

1. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

2. These sixteen names (words) are destructive of the evil effects

of Kali. No better means than this is to be seen in all the Vedas.

These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force

which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the

sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines

fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone)

shines. "

 

as is propogated by Caintanya Mahaprabhu....

 

harer nama harer nama

harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva

nasty eva gatir anyatha

 

In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the only means of deliverance

is the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. There is no other

way. There is no other way. There is no other way.

(Brhan-naradiya Purana 38.126)

 

What does the great Goswami Tulasidas say

nahi.n kali karama na bhagati bibekU. rAma nAma avala.nbana ekU ..

In kaliyuga there is no bhakti and vivek and karma...only RAMA NAMA

 

There is no easier way than RAMA NAMA.

 

The great saints...Tukaram, Mirabai, Naamadev, Sant Gyaneshvar,

NarsiMehta, Samartha Ram Das, Shri RamKrishna Paramhansa have all

expounded the above..

 

Should there be still any doubt???

 

There is also a shloka abt people who doubt the superiority in

Kaliyuga...Cannot remember at this stage..

 

Glories to Nama sankirtanam...The Yuga Dharma

 

Jai Shri Ram

Deepak Vinod

-

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

If your emails contain " > " at the beginning of each line, and you

are using Outlook / Outlook Express, you may do the following to remove:

 

In Outlook Express, go to Tools --> Options --> Send --> Mail

Sending Format --> html settings (and text settings) --> untick

the " Indent on reply "

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

Easiest Path

 

Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

 

Ashokji's question about the easiest path is quite pertinent. In

fact, there are many do's and don'ts for the Karma (Action, Selfless

Service), Dhyaan Yoga (Meditation) and the Gyan (Knowledge) Margs

(path). The eligibility of a person to follow/perform the

prescriptions of these Margas is also very stringent, so also the

processes.

 

For example, for the eligibility of a person to follow the Karma

Marg and the associated rituals, there are several considerations to

take care of, like the place where these are being pursued, time

when it is done, source of money which is to be used and how it has

been acquired, the priest who is conducting a ritual, his capacity

to pronounce the mantras correctly etc. etc. This is very very

difficult to fulfill.

 

Even in Yoga (Dhyana) Marg, one has to cross several stages like

Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharanaa, Dhyana, until

Samadhi, each of which is very difficult to perform and master.

 

Gyan Marg, is a path suited for those whose intellects are highly

developed to be able to discriminate between the real and the

unreal, the ephemeral and the eternal etc. Secondly, the Gyana marga

involves renouncing impermanent material things as well as the

impermanent distractions related to patriotic interests. The person

who wants to go in this path must have purified his mind to such an

extent that he should have the capability of one-pointedness. He

should have control of mind (shama), control of the sense organs

(dama), Titikshhaa (Patience, Endurance) practice four `Sadhana-

chatushtayam'. Perhaps one in a billion may pass those tests

prescribed in the above Margas, if at all. Not to mention, even a

person of the caliber of Arjuna did not have his mind and intellect

stable enough and continued to pose his dilemma before Bhagwan until

he heard the final words from Him.

 

And even on having done so, the stage up to which the follower of

the above Margas can rise is limited.

 

However in in Bhakti (Devotion and Love) Marg alone there are no

prescriptions/ conditions of time, place, money/resources…... Any

one with a longing for God and with pure mind can follow it with a

sense of love and devotion. In fact there is nothing to be done

except remembering Him all the time with love. Even if a devotee

wishes to offer something, in Gita, Bhagwan himself has confessed

that he would just accept anything- a leaf, flower, water, fruit…..

when offered with love (Gita 9.26). He has said that all the actions

done by a devotee should be just surrendered unto him (9.27) and a

devotee has to be fully absorbed in His thoughts with full faith

(Gita 9.34). Bhagwan finally advises that renouncing all

faiths/religions if one takes refuge in Him, He shall liberate the

person from all bonds of dharma and adharma alike (Gita 18.66).

 

Thus, compared to any other path, this path of devotion is simpler.

 

Regards.

 

K.N.Sharma

 

 

Namasthe, This is my humble opinion based on my interpretation of

your question " In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this

ocean of life? (God Realisation). " .

 

I do not consider 'crossing this ocean of life' and 'God

Realisation' are somewhat little different expressions, meaning,

once a person becomes God realised, there is no question about life

being an ocean and having a need to cross it, since the crossing of

the ocean or any activity just becomes the normal activity that is

fully surrendered to God.

 

Coming the meaning of becoming easily 'God Realized'..can be

understood under Meditation (Gita 6th chapter) by just remembering

that SUPREME all the time in every action of ours and surrendering

our action, and the fruits of our actions, and complete of ourselves

to that Supreme/God.

 

Regards,

Bharathi

--------------------------------

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

The initial question being asked is :

In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

(God Realisation). Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which

verse) ?

 

This question has immense depth, but is also a very direct question,

that requires deep understanding but at the same time not evading

the directness of the question. The question, calls for taking a stand on

what Shri Krishna has said on this subject, very clearly, very specifically and

with shloka references. Although the English translation may have lacked in some

clarity in terminology / words used, let us respect the seeker, and his wishes.

 

Also, I believe the responses to this question so far have also been

very direct, insightful with specific references in Gita. Thank you

all for carrying on God's work and in being an instrument in

performing the highest seva (service) of all sevas.

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

First, I admire Moderatorji who is doing an outstanding job of

keeping the group together and focused by working so hard. In all

our differing views, we are journeying together unknowingly at times

toward the goal. It helps us.

 

I am equally grateful shri Ashokji has rejoined us. I have always

appreciated his contributions to the group.

 

I am compelled to speak my heart. Sometimes I get the feeling that

we may be carried away in quoting Gita references and get involved

in literal interpretations overlooking new insights appropriate in

our times. I apologize as I may be wrong in assuming this for

others.

 

I know well that the teaching of Gita is timeless, however, the

insights are always evolutionary in nature even as the teaching

remains same across generations. Many more contemporary commentaries

on Gita proves this. Human Consciousness seems to have built-in

evolutionary impulse. For this to happen we need to also bring in

the inner experience based inputs to our acquired scriptural

knowledge.

 

To me, to say one path is superior or inferior, easier or harder

than others has lesser appeals than to say whatever path one follows

based on ones deepest inclination with longing for Truth-God is more

appropriate for that sadhaka. In this period of technological

growth, and prevailing level of intellectualism, for some of us

inquiry into " what am I? " may be more logical in the beginning until

such time as one exhausts mind totally into which God invites

Himself. For some of us Devotion and Love to Personalized God in

some form may be more appropriate and still others may be inclined

to serve fellow human beings doing Karma Yoga until maturation in

their pursuits find fruition in the realization of Truth. To say

that Ego remains in pursuits of selfless karma or Gyan(Self-

knowledge) while it is gone in Bhakta may not be whole truth. It is

so subtle it can creep up in Bhakta as well as Gyani or Karmi. When

one realizes there is no Gyani, only Gyan, no Bhakta, only Bhakti,

no Karmi only selflessness, there remains no one to be anything!

 

Krishnaji has said many things at different times upholding their

values in one's Sadhana. He also says that if one cannot do any of

these, then surrender unto " Me " is best for such a one. In my

understanding He perhaps didn't imply just because it is easier to

surrender, just do it. I feel that path being harder or easier is

not in the path itself, sadhaka's inner makeup plays a big role.

Seemingly easier paths prescribed in general for everyone may be

difficult when being practiced otherwise, so it seems, Krishnaji

wouldn't have mentioned all paths.

 

Sadhaka as an individual doesn't choose, the choice is the natural

outcome of being open to whatever one comes across that one's heart

and mind cry out in unison: " yes, yes, give me more " !

Nonetheless, with equal respect to all who are asking questions and

those who are sharing their understanding via postings, I appreciate

their wisdom and am grateful!

 

Namaskars..Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

Hari OM.

I am not able to give any reference from Gita. However certain

other refernces are being given .

 

The Greatness of Namasankeerthan

" NAAHAM VASAAMI VAIKUNTE

NAYOHI HRUDHAYE RAVAU

MATH BHAKTHA YATHRA GAAYANTHI

THATHRA THISTAAMI NAARATHA "

 

Bhagavan Sri Krishna emphatically told Naradha that he always

resides with his devotees performing Namasankeerthan. It may be

noted that Namasankeerthan is a key sadhana available in kaliyuga to

reach god as other ways and means like doing yagna and yaagas are

more complex and need other things like money and manpower.

Namasankeerthan does not require anything else except pure devotion

towards Him. Hence it has been recognised as one of the purest,

easiest and surest path to reach God for any aspirant irrespective

of caste or creed. Many religious scripts and hymns have directed us

towards this path.

 

Namasankeerthan is a form of bhakthi where the glory of Almighty and

His divine activities are sung with greatest involvement and

dedication. The main feature of traditional namasankeerthan is the

Divyanama Sankeerthana, also known as Jagannatha Pradakshina. Lord

Krishna is invoked in a five-faced silver lamp and the devotees go

round it singing and dancing unmindful of their state and status in

a blissful mood. The Namasankeerthan thus evolves a new method of

purifying your body, soul and your mental status. It also inculcates

in the minds of people the very basic social essentials like

endurance, perseverance, adherence, and adaptability that are of

paramount importance in your daily life.

 

G. Vaidyanathan

--------------------------------

Hari Om

 

At the outset I must admire the depth involved in the question. It

is extremely compact question and is like an ocean in itself and

still brief and focused. Such questions in their own right bring the

best out of deliberations and out of Jnana Yagya which by

participating in this Gita Talk group we all are performing.

 

Sadhak Vaidynathan has also indeed in minimum words given one of

the easiest means of Bhakti and realisation. Though his comment is

based basically on Ram Charitmanas and Shrimad Bhagwatam but in

Gita 9:14 and Gita 11:36 you can find confirmation.

 

I am also addressing in this posting questions raised by Sadhak

Ashok Jain.

 

In fact Bhakti both as a means and as and end is the easiest among

the three major paths plus Meditation (Dhyaan Yoga).

 

Krishna confirms in Gita 5:2 that Karma Yoga is better than Jnana

Yoga. Karma Yoga is also better than Dhyaan Yoga - Gita 12:12.

Krishna also states difficulties in Jnana Yoga in 12:4.

 

But Bhakti Yoga is the easiest. This has been categorically

confirmed by Krishna in Gita 12:2 with reference to Jnana Yoga and

in Gita 6:47 with reference to all other Yogas.

 

Reason is that in this Yoga a Bhakta's entire responsibilty is

taken over by Bhagwaan - whether it is making him cross Bhavsagar

(ocean of birth and death, this ever changing abode of sorrow - the

dukhalayam - this world) " Very Quickly " - Gita 12:6-7 or destroying

his sins - Gita 18:66 , or granting him equanimity - Gita 10:10 or

destroying his illusion and giving him knowledge - Gita 10:11 , or

taking him out of power of Maya - Gita 13:14 and making available to

him all that is necessary for accomplishment of Yoga - 9:21 etc.

Bhakta does not have to do any thing to get the above things. All

others have to do/know something of their own.

 

Then in Bhakti Equanimity is not the essence - a bhakta does not

have to strive for it, he gets it automatically as gift from

Bhagwaan.

 

Karma Yogi needs a settled intellect to get equanimity - which in

fact tests the Yogi quite a bit. Biggest challenge before Jnana Yogi

is destruction of ego - Gita 12:4. Bhakta is required to change his

ego, which is simpler to do than purifying it (Karma Yoga) or

eliminating it (Jnana Yoga) - Gita 12:4. In Dhyaan Yoga a lot of

disciplines have to be observed - Gita 6:11 to 6:17.

Bhakta first renounces his " mineness " with the world, then by

automatic operation of law the ego gets renounced. To renounce ego

anyday is more difficult. Jnani has to first renounce ego and then

automatically his " mineness " gets renounced.

 

Bhakta simply changes his ego from " I am of World " to " I am of

Bhagwaan " and renounces his mineness with the world - ONLY by his

inner bhava (inner intention/sentiment). He starts seeing all around

him to be of Bhagwaan - including near and dear ones. It then

takes " kshipram " time (less than a second) for him to become

Dharmatma - Gita 9:31. Bhagwaan makes Arjuna swear that a Bhakta

shall not fall/fail in his spiritual journey - Gita 9:31- thus a

Bhakta never becomes " yoga bhrashta " as described in Gita 6:37-38.

 

The means of Bhakti are far far simpler than in other yogas and

manifestation of " divine traits " as described in Gita 16:1 to 16:4

are easier to get by for Bhakta. We shall deal with the same in next

postings.

 

Once Bhagwaan Himself uses the word " sulabh " (easy) for Bhakti ,

then there is no way it can be difficult. It is indeed the easiest.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

Jai Shri Krishna,

 

Parmaatma in all places, in all things, at all times, and in

everyone (Hari vyaapak Sarvatra Samaana). Therefore, there is no

need for doing anything to realize Him.

 

We firmly believe and are ingrained in the idea that if worldly

things are achieved after so much of efforts, then how could the

supreme Parmaatma be realized immediately. This belief only is

delaying us from meeting Him. If we believe that we will meet Him in

future after pursuing Sadhana over a period of time, then we will

meet Him in future only. If we firmly believe (Bhava) that we will

find Him right now, then He will come to us right now only. Krishna

confirms so (Gita 4:11). The delay is not in realizing Him, but is

in our Bhavana only (inner expression, belief, feeling).

 

One evening a cultured king was walking on his terrace observing the

movements on the road. He saw a saint walking in his own world

unaware of the surroundings on the road. He ordered his men to bring

the saint to him on the terrace. The men pulled the saint on the

terrace with the help of a rope without any delay. The king

apologized to the saint for his men and requested the saint to

answer his question that `how can we meet Parmaatma instantly'. The

saint told the king that you already know this answer yourself. The

king asked how ? The saint said that if I feel like meeting you, the

king, then there are a lot of obstacles and delays in the process

and it may never ever be possible at times. But when you felt like

meeting me, then did it take time ? The saint then said that O king,

similarly if Parmaatma feels like meeting us then there will not be

any delay. Then the king asked how will Parmaatma feel like meeting

us ? The saint asked the king that how did you feel like meeting

me ? The king said that I saw that you were walking in your own

world without paying any attention to the road, market, shops,

house, people, happenings etc. so I felt like meeting you. Then the

saint told that O king, similarly if you focus only on Parmaatma

without looking at anyone else, if you cannot remain without Him,

then Parmaatma will feel like meeting you and He will meet you

instantly.

 

We have created barriers in Parmaatma realization by beliefs such

as – He can be met only by saints, He can be met only if we go and

reside in forest, How can we meet Him without a Guru (Preceptor)?

These days there are no real Gurus to lead us to the path of His

realization so How will we meet Him ? If we are not destined then

how will we meet Him ? Since we are not eligible how will we meet ?

Our Karma are not such that we can meet Him ? etc. etc.. We have

suppressed Parmaatma below these various barriers. In such a

situation what can Parmaatma do, how can He meet us?

 

It is absolutely wrong to assume that Parmaatma will be realized in

exchange for some qualification (Yogyata). It is a rule that cost of

any thing we buy in the market in exchange for money is always less

than the money we paid for. Similarly, if we believe that Parmaatma

can be realized in exchange for certain special Yogyata or Sadhan or

Austerities, Charity etc. then He will be less in value compared to

these things, which he is not.

 

When something is ample in supply and the demand is less then that

thing is available in the market for very cheap price, because the

seller is interested in disposing off the stock. Similarly, it is

very easy to get Him in Kaliyuga because now there are very few

takers for Him. Therefore, we should not have such Bhava

(sentiments) that how can Parmaatma be realized easily in Kaliyuga.

Just determine firmly that come what may, we have to realize

Parmatma.

 

If we engage in purifying ourselves first then it will delay His

realization. Instead of our efforts, His grace will purify us

instantly. If a child is fully covered with mud etc. and comes to

the mother, then the mother herself cleans him.

 

No knowledge or qualification but only mineness in Parmaatma is

essential to attract Parmaatma, just as a child attracts his mother.

This mineness has great powers to attract Parmaatma. It is only due

to mineness that Prahlaad had with Parmaatma that Parmaatma appeared

from a stone pillar. Mirabai said " Mere to Giridhar Gopal, Dusro Na

Koi Re " .

 

The delay in His realization is being caused ONLY due to lack of our

INTENSE DESIRE to realize Him, otherwise there is no delay in

meeting Him. Such intense desire is only possible if we renounce the

worldly desires. We can realize Him by Ananya Bhakti (only desiring

Him) – Gita 11:54. Then, it is His responsibility to address any

deficiency in the Sadhana of a Bhakta. If a Bhakta forgets Him in

his last moments for some reason, then He Himself reminds the Bhakta

of Him.

 

Krishna has declared Bhaktiyoga as superior to all other means and

Bhaktayogi as best amongst all the Sadhakas (Gita 6:47 and 12:2).

 

Narayana Narayana

 

Rajendra J. Bohra

 

 

Dear sadhaks,

 

My humble respects, and my foolish attempts to offer something

to this discussion....from the Caitanya Caritamrta.....(Adi2.1)

 

sri caitanya prabhum vande balo 'pi yad-anugrahat

taren nana mata graha vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

" I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy

even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive

truths, which is full of the crocodiles of various useless theories. "

 

from the Ananta-Samhita/Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu bhagavata:

 

krsnas caitanya-gaurangau gaura-candrah saci-sutah

prabhu-gaurau gaura-harir namani bhakti-dani me

" I bestow prema-bhakti upon whoever chants My names such as Krsna,

Caitanya, Gauranga, Gaura-candra, Saci-suta, Prabhu, Gaura, and

Gaura-hari. "

from the Sri Vidagdha-madhava, of Rupa Gosvami

 

anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

harih purata-sundara-dyuti kadamba-sandipitah

sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

 

" May the Supreme Lord, who is known as the so of Srimati Saci-deve,

be brilliantly situated in the innermost core of your heart.

Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the

Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has

ever offered before; the most sublime and radiant mellow of

devotional service, madhurya-rasa (as manjari-bhava), service to

Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservants. "

 

And finally, to conclude my humble presentation from the " Sri

Slokamrtam " of Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj: (from the Brhan-

Naradiya-Purana 38.126/and Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 17/21)

 

" harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "

" In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance

is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no

other way, no other way " .

 

my humble thanks, for the moderators and readers allowing me the

opportunity to remember these sacred verses.

 

kadaham yamuna-tire, namani tava kirtayan...

udvaspah pundarikaksa!! racayisyami tandavam

" O lotus-eyed Krsna, when, upon the banks of the Yamuna, will I

chant Your holy names and dance like a madman, my eyes brimming with

tears of love? "

 

Mahalaksmi dasi

 

Dear Vyas,

In kaliyuga ,the easiest path to follow is to chant the name of the

Lord---Nama Japa, Nama Smarana...

Gita: In Meditation,I am Japa.

Regards,

In Sai Smaran,

N K Srinivasan

 

-

Dear Sadhaks,

Life is not bed of Roses goes saying. What is easy for one is very

tough for someone.

If mental pleasure is there than Moon light night, scenic

environment is happiness. The same situation when mind is in agony

everything appears frustrating.

In Sat Yug Tapa- In tretha you Japa- in Dwaperyug Yagna and in Kali

yug " Namasankerthan " (Reciting Name of Bhagavan), says sastras

(scriptures). But Namasankeethan has to be said with body mind and

intellect aligned.

One saint known as Patinathar of recent time said, " my mouth is

saying your Nama, my hands are doing something else, my eyes are

looking somewhere, my mind is wondering, Oh Bagavan Shiva grant me

the boon so that I can fully concentrate on YOU. "

 

Easiest way for Sadhak is follow foot steps of Gopies. Gopies were

always talking of Krishna, selling curd by name of Krishna, churning

milk singing about Krishna, and when they had time to sit and relax

they held Satsangh saying leelas of Krishna. That is why Uddhava

sitting in front of Krishna in Mathura use to bow down towards

Nandgokul where gopies lived. Uddhava has said to Krishna the

pranams not for you, Oh Krishna but to Gopies of Brindavan.

 

There was no food for Namadev children who were crying out of

hunger. Namadev said to his children, " Vittala Bolo, Vittala Bolo. "

Dear Sadhaks, Vittala did come as a passer by and cooked food for

the whole family. This did happen. One can visit Panderpur and see

Saint Namadev house. Many things people do not believe, then how can

faith come ? Even if one says without faith Hare Krishna, Sri

Krishna multiplies baktha's faith.

 

Bhagavan said during war in Kuruchetra to Arjuna to shout as, " My

Baktha will never be forsaken " . But Arjuna shouted, " Krishna Baktha

will never be forsaked " . Bagavan again said, Arjuna tell that your

Baktha will not be forsaked and not MY baktha.

Therefore engage you mind in Shri Krishna at all times. No Japa No

Tapa is needed, simply become engaged in Him like the Gopies doing

everything only for Shri Krishna.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

--------------------------------

Does GITA tell 'Tat Twam Asi' ?

Does it mean " ananya bhava " is self study ?

Does It mean 'A Hermit can achieve it' ?

Does a Saint say, " GOD is realised by seeing the creation around " ?

Or else it's selfishness !

 

Swapan Purkayastha

-

Dear Sir

 

1)I sincerely appreciate your reply and my regard for you has

increased manifold. You are doing a good job by moderating this

group.

 

2)I certainly found your reply to be offensive as such d

from the group. However ,unsubscribing from the Group does not mean

I have anything against anyone. This means only that no purpose

would be served by continuing to be member of the Group.

 

3)I stand firmly on my statement that " there is no easy path all

path requires same effort " based on and backed by following

understanding:-

 

a) While Bhagwan Krishna explains all the paths in Gita ,he

nowhere indicates or suggests to Arjuna that this is the easier path.

 

b) If there was a easier path,Bhagwan Krishna would have

mentioned that path only and Gita would have been of one chapter

only.

 

c) Bhaktimarg seems easy but it is the most difficult because

human mind is not designed for complete surrender.

 

4) From my personal experience of past lives and this life and

thorough understanding of Jainism ,Buddhism and Hinduism I have

reasons to believe that there is no easy path.I am one of the very

few jains who has been so much inspired by Gita that for past six

years have been actively propagating study of Gita.I recently got

Astavakra Gita printed and distribute the same to Sadhaks.

 

 

5) I will be obliged to receive from you information about easier

path as mentioned in Gita.

 

6) As a mark of respect for you , I am subscribing to the Group

again.

 

regards

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-

shree hari

ram ram

 

Ashokji, Thank you ! We are so pleased to read the last part (6)

and as a matter of fact the entire email ...

 

There is a definite purpose to be served by this association (with

Gita Talk). These are not ordinary associations... they are divine

blessings from Paramatma Himself.

 

Ashokji, also having this in-depth knowledge of Jainism, Buddhism

and Hinduism and Astavakra Gita, it will be wonderful to share with

the group from time to time, to help all sadhaks. Please see if you

can include references, so sadhaks can do some further study and

inquiry in their own time.

 

Your message will be posted to Gita Talk and I am certain you will

get some insightful replies on the easier path.

 

We look forward to your participation.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

Friends

1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but no

definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one path

over another path is not given.

3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with specific

reference of Gita sloka.

 

Ashok Jain

-----------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

 

Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji, and let

us know if you have specific issues with what has been addressed.

We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without furthering

the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. " will

require you to do some additional homework to point out why you have

concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to so

many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking forward

to a more complete response with Gita references.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

Thanks regards

A K Jain

------------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there anything

offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the trouble ?

How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they know

with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the Universe at

large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does end

with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be something

transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again... Thank

you in advance !

 

-

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

-------------------------------

In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE BHAVSAGAR.

G.VAIDYANATHAN.

--------------------------------

shree hari

ram ram

Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference where

this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in Gita,

but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this will be

very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

group.

 

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

 

-------------------------------

To Geeta Talk Moderator

 

I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the following

para be replaced in place existing para-

 

A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and (iii)

realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

 

Thanks

Vyas N B

 

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to talk

with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried in

this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

 

Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no other "

sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means for his

Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai as :-

 

Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

 

(Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

 

Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine) creates " ananya

bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also of

ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

 

Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are others

including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences, happenings,

mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING ELSE..

 

When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all others

except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya bhaav " .

The moment he does it :-

 

Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

 

Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all that is

needed for him - Gita 9:22

 

Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

 

A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

 

Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind and

intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and (ii)

he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

 

It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to offer

to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water etc

with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

 

If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to offer ,

then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do, give.

etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

 

If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the bondages

and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

 

Can there be a simpler thing? No !

 

As simple as that ! !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-------------------------

 

1. Sahaja Yoga.

2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

 

Rameshwar Sabhlok

 

> > > > > -------------------------

NARAYAN NARAYAN

 

In English

 

In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

(God Realisation)

Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

 

In Hindi

 

KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN SA HAI-

(Bhagwat praapti ka?)

GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

 

R.C.VYAS

 

 

 

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MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

 

On hand Ashokji is defining Bhakti as per Narada's Bhakti Sutra

as " highest, limitless, infinite, exclusive love for Paramatma " and

on other hand he is calling Mirabai's immortal words - " doosaro na

koi " (there is no other who is mine - except Giridhar Gopal) - as

madness, Unmad, blind and illogical.

 

Now Ashokji should enlighten us as to how without believing " doosaro

na koi " , the love can become " exclusive " ? Or " highest " ? Does

not " doosara " (other) limit the love for Paramatma ? What is meant

by " exclusive " ? Who then would be proved to be blind, illogical or

mad ? Mirabai ?

 

No Ashokji. Mirabai cannot be established as illogical or blind or

mad . .

 

So now that you yourself has agreed that Bhakti is most beneficial

among the others, and it has been established as per Gita also and

you yourself has suggested that Narada's Bhakti Sutras are

intoxicating - your questions get answered by yourself only.

 

There is no doubt that Bhakti is the easiest. We have to change

merely our inner bhava - to believe " Only God is mine, nothing else

is mine " . Then -

- Naam sankeertan, and japa, ( Gita 9:14/11:36)

- Listening/satsanga (Gita 13:25) ,

- Remembering ( 8:14/9:13/18:57-58),

- Paad sevan (9:14),

- Archan (worshipping) - 18:46,9:34,18:65,

- Vandan ( glorifying, namaskaram) - 9:34, 18:65, 11:39-40-44,

- Daasyaness (servant) - 9:34,18:65,2:7,4:3,

- Friendliness - 4:3/11:44 and

- Surrender -15:4, 18:62 and 18:66 - choose any one or all as

means ! !

 

The means of Bhakti as described above are easily the easiest.

 

It is only when first you change your ego to bring " ananyata "

(exclusivity i.e. doosaro no koi) that all above means give you ease

to cross the ocean - bhavsaagar.

 

Says Goswami Tulsidas - Hohi Raam ko naam japo " (first become of

Raam and then chant his name)

 

The best/easiest among the aforesaid means in Kaliyuga ?

 

Hare Raam Hare Raam Raam Raam Hare Hare

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

-

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Friends

>

> 1)Let every Sadhak have the ability to differentiate, discriminate

> and choose what is useful and discard what is not useful. (Hansa to

> Moti Chuge)

>

> 2)No doubt Bhaktimarg (Path of Love and Devotion) is superior and

> more beneficial to Sadhak as Bhagwan takes total care of his

> devotees.

> 3)Regarding whether it is easiest, Bhakti Sutra of Narad says:-

>

> a)1st Sutra - Now, we explain Bhakti; after recognising that KAM

> (physical) and PREM (mental/emotional)are not enough, we explain

> Bhakti.

>

> b)2nd Sutra - Bhakti is PARAM PREM RUPA

> Highest, limitless, infinite, exclusive love for God. Meera's -

> Doosra na koi. In my words- Unmad, madness, blind, illogical.

>

> c)3rd Sutra - Amrit Swarupa - immortal

>

> d)4th Sutra - Ya labdham punam siddho bhavati, amtito bhavati,

> tripto bhavati

> By getting this one becomes siddh, immortal and satisfied /

> contended.

> - Siddho - realisation of potential/ purpose

> - amrito - experiencing immortality - deathlessness

> - tripto - no exact english word - every life we are searching for

> some thing. Our search stops

>

> e)5th Sutra

> After getting Bhakti, person has no desire, no grief, no

> rejoicement, no subjective reactions, no excitement or overpowering

> emotions.

>

> The pre-requisites of Bhaktimarg are helpful.

> 4)Suggest study of Bhakti-Sutra. It is intoxicating.

>

> As mentioned in 1st para, if you find anything useful take it,

rest

> ignore.

>

> regards and love

>

> Ashok Jain

> -

>

> There are no paths , there is only Life happening. Life is going

> nowhere, it is acheiving nothing, it simply is unfolding within the

> eternal moment.

> There is no one to get anywhere as all that is is Life.

> Avasa

> Adrian Meyers

>

>

> Shree Hari

> Adrian, what exactly do you mean? Part of the question was,what

is the easiest path to God (Self) Realization. Additionally, what

is the easiest path to cross the ocean of life? Based on your

statement, is there such a thing as Realization, or Nirvana, or

Moksha, or liberation, or salvation in this life ? Is there any

aim / objective of life? any aim of this particular life form (human

birth) ? any significance at all ? Please elaborate.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> -

>

> Hari Om

>

> I am indeed privileged to witness one of the finest sessions of

> deliberations. Each and every participant indeed has contributed in

> an optimum manner and has shared best of him - in a controlled and

> focused manner.

>

> I may state here that none of the paths are really difficult-

> reason: kindness of Paramatma and premium /privilege attached with

> human body. Both Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga in fact are very easy,

> but devotion and bhakti is the easiest among these very easy paths.

>

> How all the paths are easy?

>

> In KARMA YOGA - Whatever situation comes before a striver in the

> form of Duty - to do that duty diligently and renounce the results

> of that deed of doing your duty - WHAT IS THE DIFFICULTY? There is

> no difficulty because Duty is " What you can do easily and what you

> should do " - Gita 2:47

>

> Is not it easy to do your duty - when it is only what you can do

and

> what you should do ?

>

> In JNANA YOGA - This body is changing every moment, it is going

> towards death because it is ASAT (unreal) but the knower of this

> ASAT is SAT (self)- WHAT IS DIFFICULTY IN KNOWING THIS? Almost

every

> person on this earth who slightly believes in existence of some

> super natural power knows that this body is going to die, but the

> resident of this body (self) is going to stay ! Gita 2:11 to 30

>

> Is not it easy to know?

>

> However Bhakti is the easiest among these easy paths of

> realisation ! !

>

> Now we should move towards the means (saadhans) and processes

> involved in these yogas and find out as to how bhakti is proved to

> be the easiest there also. In the end we should address Sadhak

> Ashokji's queries one by one. (Welcome Ashokji to this askesis of

> knowledge to the world of questing aspirants - Gita Talk Group)

>

> Bhakti has to be established as the easiest - because Krishna

> Himself has called it to be " easy " (sulabh) _ Gita 8 : 14. How can

> the voice of Paramatma be faulty?

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

> --------------------------------

>

> Hari OM...

>

> What about for those who don't even have bhakti ananya bhaav..

> The lord has made it simpler....

>

> The simplest path as mentioned in the KALISANTARANA UPANISHAD is

the

> Maha Mantra

> HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

> HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE

>

>

> Hari Om ! At the end of Dvapara-Yuga, Narada went to Brahma and

> addressed him thus: " O Lord, how shall I, roaming over the earth,

be

> able to across Kali ? " To which Brahma thus replied: " Well asked.

> Hearken to that which all Shrutis (the Vedas) keep secret and

> hidden, through which one may cross the Samsara (mundane existence)

> of Kali. He shakes off (the evil effects of) Kali through the mere

> uttering of the name of the Lord Narayana, who is the primeval

> Purusha " . Again Narada asked Brahma: " What is the name ? " To which

> Hiranyagarbha (Brahma) replied thus:

>

> 1. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

> Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

> 2. These sixteen names (words) are destructive of the evil effects

> of Kali. No better means than this is to be seen in all the Vedas.

> These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force

> which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by

the

> sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines

> fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone)

> shines. "

>

> as is propogated by Caintanya Mahaprabhu....

>

> harer nama harer nama

> harer namaiva kevalam

> kalau nasty eva nasty eva

> nasty eva gatir anyatha

>

> In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the only means of deliverance

> is the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. There is no other

> way. There is no other way. There is no other way.

> (Brhan-naradiya Purana 38.126)

>

> What does the great Goswami Tulasidas say

> nahi.n kali karama na bhagati bibekU. rAma nAma avala.nbana ekU ..

> In kaliyuga there is no bhakti and vivek and karma...only RAMA NAMA

>

> There is no easier way than RAMA NAMA.

>

> The great saints...Tukaram, Mirabai, Naamadev, Sant Gyaneshvar,

> NarsiMehta, Samartha Ram Das, Shri RamKrishna Paramhansa have all

> expounded the above..

>

> Should there be still any doubt???

>

> There is also a shloka abt people who doubt the superiority in

> Kaliyuga...Cannot remember at this stage..

>

> Glories to Nama sankirtanam...The Yuga Dharma

>

> Jai Shri Ram

> Deepak Vinod

> -

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

> If your emails contain " > " at the beginning of each line, and you

> are using Outlook / Outlook Express, you may do the following to

remove:

>

> In Outlook Express, go to Tools --> Options --> Send --> Mail

> Sending Format --> html settings (and text settings) --> untick

> the " Indent on reply "

>

> From Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> Easiest Path

>

> Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

>

> Ashokji's question about the easiest path is quite pertinent. In

> fact, there are many do's and don'ts for the Karma (Action,

Selfless

> Service), Dhyaan Yoga (Meditation) and the Gyan (Knowledge) Margs

> (path). The eligibility of a person to follow/perform the

> prescriptions of these Margas is also very stringent, so also the

> processes.

>

> For example, for the eligibility of a person to follow the Karma

> Marg and the associated rituals, there are several considerations

to

> take care of, like the place where these are being pursued, time

> when it is done, source of money which is to be used and how it has

> been acquired, the priest who is conducting a ritual, his capacity

> to pronounce the mantras correctly etc. etc. This is very very

> difficult to fulfill.

>

> Even in Yoga (Dhyana) Marg, one has to cross several stages like

> Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharanaa, Dhyana, until

> Samadhi, each of which is very difficult to perform and master.

>

> Gyan Marg, is a path suited for those whose intellects are highly

> developed to be able to discriminate between the real and the

> unreal, the ephemeral and the eternal etc. Secondly, the Gyana

marga

> involves renouncing impermanent material things as well as the

> impermanent distractions related to patriotic interests. The person

> who wants to go in this path must have purified his mind to such an

> extent that he should have the capability of one-pointedness. He

> should have control of mind (shama), control of the sense organs

> (dama), Titikshhaa (Patience, Endurance) practice four `Sadhana-

> chatushtayam'. Perhaps one in a billion may pass those tests

> prescribed in the above Margas, if at all. Not to mention, even a

> person of the caliber of Arjuna did not have his mind and intellect

> stable enough and continued to pose his dilemma before Bhagwan

until

> he heard the final words from Him.

>

> And even on having done so, the stage up to which the follower of

> the above Margas can rise is limited.

>

> However in in Bhakti (Devotion and Love) Marg alone there are no

> prescriptions/ conditions of time, place, money/resources…... Any

> one with a longing for God and with pure mind can follow it with a

> sense of love and devotion. In fact there is nothing to be done

> except remembering Him all the time with love. Even if a devotee

> wishes to offer something, in Gita, Bhagwan himself has confessed

> that he would just accept anything- a leaf, flower, water, fruit…..

> when offered with love (Gita 9.26). He has said that all the

actions

> done by a devotee should be just surrendered unto him (9.27) and a

> devotee has to be fully absorbed in His thoughts with full faith

> (Gita 9.34). Bhagwan finally advises that renouncing all

> faiths/religions if one takes refuge in Him, He shall liberate the

> person from all bonds of dharma and adharma alike (Gita 18.66).

>

> Thus, compared to any other path, this path of devotion is simpler.

>

> Regards.

>

> K.N.Sharma

>

>

> Namasthe, This is my humble opinion based on my interpretation of

> your question " In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this

> ocean of life? (God Realisation). " .

>

> I do not consider 'crossing this ocean of life' and 'God

> Realisation' are somewhat little different expressions, meaning,

> once a person becomes God realised, there is no question about life

> being an ocean and having a need to cross it, since the crossing of

> the ocean or any activity just becomes the normal activity that is

> fully surrendered to God.

>

> Coming the meaning of becoming easily 'God Realized'..can be

> understood under Meditation (Gita 6th chapter) by just remembering

> that SUPREME all the time in every action of ours and surrendering

> our action, and the fruits of our actions, and complete of

ourselves

> to that Supreme/God.

>

> Regards,

> Bharathi

> --------------------------------

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

> The initial question being asked is :

> In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

> (God Realisation). Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which

> verse) ?

>

> This question has immense depth, but is also a very direct

question,

> that requires deep understanding but at the same time not evading

> the directness of the question. The question, calls for taking a

stand on

> what Shri Krishna has said on this subject, very clearly, very

specifically and

> with shloka references. Although the English translation may have

lacked in some

> clarity in terminology / words used, let us respect the seeker,

and his wishes.

>

> Also, I believe the responses to this question so far have also

been

> very direct, insightful with specific references in Gita. Thank you

> all for carrying on God's work and in being an instrument in

> performing the highest seva (service) of all sevas.

>

> From Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

>

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> First, I admire Moderatorji who is doing an outstanding job of

> keeping the group together and focused by working so hard. In all

> our differing views, we are journeying together unknowingly at

times

> toward the goal. It helps us.

>

> I am equally grateful shri Ashokji has rejoined us. I have always

> appreciated his contributions to the group.

>

> I am compelled to speak my heart. Sometimes I get the feeling that

> we may be carried away in quoting Gita references and get involved

> in literal interpretations overlooking new insights appropriate in

> our times. I apologize as I may be wrong in assuming this for

> others.

>

> I know well that the teaching of Gita is timeless, however, the

> insights are always evolutionary in nature even as the teaching

> remains same across generations. Many more contemporary

commentaries

> on Gita proves this. Human Consciousness seems to have built-in

> evolutionary impulse. For this to happen we need to also bring in

> the inner experience based inputs to our acquired scriptural

> knowledge.

>

> To me, to say one path is superior or inferior, easier or harder

> than others has lesser appeals than to say whatever path one

follows

> based on ones deepest inclination with longing for Truth-God is

more

> appropriate for that sadhaka. In this period of technological

> growth, and prevailing level of intellectualism, for some of us

> inquiry into " what am I? " may be more logical in the beginning

until

> such time as one exhausts mind totally into which God invites

> Himself. For some of us Devotion and Love to Personalized God in

> some form may be more appropriate and still others may be inclined

> to serve fellow human beings doing Karma Yoga until maturation in

> their pursuits find fruition in the realization of Truth. To say

> that Ego remains in pursuits of selfless karma or Gyan(Self-

> knowledge) while it is gone in Bhakta may not be whole truth. It is

> so subtle it can creep up in Bhakta as well as Gyani or Karmi. When

> one realizes there is no Gyani, only Gyan, no Bhakta, only Bhakti,

> no Karmi only selflessness, there remains no one to be anything!

>

> Krishnaji has said many things at different times upholding their

> values in one's Sadhana. He also says that if one cannot do any of

> these, then surrender unto " Me " is best for such a one. In my

> understanding He perhaps didn't imply just because it is easier to

> surrender, just do it. I feel that path being harder or easier is

> not in the path itself, sadhaka's inner makeup plays a big role.

> Seemingly easier paths prescribed in general for everyone may be

> difficult when being practiced otherwise, so it seems, Krishnaji

> wouldn't have mentioned all paths.

>

> Sadhaka as an individual doesn't choose, the choice is the natural

> outcome of being open to whatever one comes across that one's heart

> and mind cry out in unison: " yes, yes, give me more " !

> Nonetheless, with equal respect to all who are asking questions and

> those who are sharing their understanding via postings, I

appreciate

> their wisdom and am grateful!

>

> Namaskars..Pratap

> (Pratap Bhatt)

>

> Hari OM.

> I am not able to give any reference from Gita. However certain

> other refernces are being given .

>

> The Greatness of Namasankeerthan

> " NAAHAM VASAAMI VAIKUNTE

> NAYOHI HRUDHAYE RAVAU

> MATH BHAKTHA YATHRA GAAYANTHI

> THATHRA THISTAAMI NAARATHA "

>

> Bhagavan Sri Krishna emphatically told Naradha that he always

> resides with his devotees performing Namasankeerthan. It may be

> noted that Namasankeerthan is a key sadhana available in kaliyuga

to

> reach god as other ways and means like doing yagna and yaagas are

> more complex and need other things like money and manpower.

> Namasankeerthan does not require anything else except pure devotion

> towards Him. Hence it has been recognised as one of the purest,

> easiest and surest path to reach God for any aspirant irrespective

> of caste or creed. Many religious scripts and hymns have directed

us

> towards this path.

>

> Namasankeerthan is a form of bhakthi where the glory of Almighty

and

> His divine activities are sung with greatest involvement and

> dedication. The main feature of traditional namasankeerthan is the

> Divyanama Sankeerthana, also known as Jagannatha Pradakshina. Lord

> Krishna is invoked in a five-faced silver lamp and the devotees go

> round it singing and dancing unmindful of their state and status in

> a blissful mood. The Namasankeerthan thus evolves a new method of

> purifying your body, soul and your mental status. It also

inculcates

> in the minds of people the very basic social essentials like

> endurance, perseverance, adherence, and adaptability that are of

> paramount importance in your daily life.

>

> G. Vaidyanathan

> --------------------------------

> Hari Om

>

> At the outset I must admire the depth involved in the question. It

> is extremely compact question and is like an ocean in itself and

> still brief and focused. Such questions in their own right bring

the

> best out of deliberations and out of Jnana Yagya which by

> participating in this Gita Talk group we all are performing.

>

> Sadhak Vaidynathan has also indeed in minimum words given one of

> the easiest means of Bhakti and realisation. Though his comment is

> based basically on Ram Charitmanas and Shrimad Bhagwatam but in

> Gita 9:14 and Gita 11:36 you can find confirmation.

>

> I am also addressing in this posting questions raised by Sadhak

> Ashok Jain.

>

> In fact Bhakti both as a means and as and end is the easiest among

> the three major paths plus Meditation (Dhyaan Yoga).

>

> Krishna confirms in Gita 5:2 that Karma Yoga is better than Jnana

> Yoga. Karma Yoga is also better than Dhyaan Yoga - Gita 12:12.

> Krishna also states difficulties in Jnana Yoga in 12:4.

>

> But Bhakti Yoga is the easiest. This has been categorically

> confirmed by Krishna in Gita 12:2 with reference to Jnana Yoga and

> in Gita 6:47 with reference to all other Yogas.

>

> Reason is that in this Yoga a Bhakta's entire responsibilty is

> taken over by Bhagwaan - whether it is making him cross Bhavsagar

> (ocean of birth and death, this ever changing abode of sorrow - the

> dukhalayam - this world) " Very Quickly " - Gita 12:6-7 or destroying

> his sins - Gita 18:66 , or granting him equanimity - Gita 10:10 or

> destroying his illusion and giving him knowledge - Gita 10:11 , or

> taking him out of power of Maya - Gita 13:14 and making available

to

> him all that is necessary for accomplishment of Yoga - 9:21 etc.

> Bhakta does not have to do any thing to get the above things. All

> others have to do/know something of their own.

>

> Then in Bhakti Equanimity is not the essence - a bhakta does not

> have to strive for it, he gets it automatically as gift from

> Bhagwaan.

>

> Karma Yogi needs a settled intellect to get equanimity - which in

> fact tests the Yogi quite a bit. Biggest challenge before Jnana

Yogi

> is destruction of ego - Gita 12:4. Bhakta is required to change his

> ego, which is simpler to do than purifying it (Karma Yoga) or

> eliminating it (Jnana Yoga) - Gita 12:4. In Dhyaan Yoga a lot of

> disciplines have to be observed - Gita 6:11 to 6:17.

> Bhakta first renounces his " mineness " with the world, then by

> automatic operation of law the ego gets renounced. To renounce ego

> anyday is more difficult. Jnani has to first renounce ego and then

> automatically his " mineness " gets renounced.

>

> Bhakta simply changes his ego from " I am of World " to " I am of

> Bhagwaan " and renounces his mineness with the world - ONLY by his

> inner bhava (inner intention/sentiment). He starts seeing all

around

> him to be of Bhagwaan - including near and dear ones. It then

> takes " kshipram " time (less than a second) for him to become

> Dharmatma - Gita 9:31. Bhagwaan makes Arjuna swear that a Bhakta

> shall not fall/fail in his spiritual journey - Gita 9:31- thus a

> Bhakta never becomes " yoga bhrashta " as described in Gita 6:37-38.

>

> The means of Bhakti are far far simpler than in other yogas and

> manifestation of " divine traits " as described in Gita 16:1 to 16:4

> are easier to get by for Bhakta. We shall deal with the same in

next

> postings.

>

> Once Bhagwaan Himself uses the word " sulabh " (easy) for Bhakti ,

> then there is no way it can be difficult. It is indeed the easiest.

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

>

>

> Jai Shri Krishna,

>

> Parmaatma in all places, in all things, at all times, and in

> everyone (Hari vyaapak Sarvatra Samaana). Therefore, there is no

> need for doing anything to realize Him.

>

> We firmly believe and are ingrained in the idea that if worldly

> things are achieved after so much of efforts, then how could the

> supreme Parmaatma be realized immediately. This belief only is

> delaying us from meeting Him. If we believe that we will meet Him

in

> future after pursuing Sadhana over a period of time, then we will

> meet Him in future only. If we firmly believe (Bhava) that we will

> find Him right now, then He will come to us right now only. Krishna

> confirms so (Gita 4:11). The delay is not in realizing Him, but is

> in our Bhavana only (inner expression, belief, feeling).

>

> One evening a cultured king was walking on his terrace observing

the

> movements on the road. He saw a saint walking in his own world

> unaware of the surroundings on the road. He ordered his men to

bring

> the saint to him on the terrace. The men pulled the saint on the

> terrace with the help of a rope without any delay. The king

> apologized to the saint for his men and requested the saint to

> answer his question that `how can we meet Parmaatma instantly'. The

> saint told the king that you already know this answer yourself. The

> king asked how ? The saint said that if I feel like meeting you,

the

> king, then there are a lot of obstacles and delays in the process

> and it may never ever be possible at times. But when you felt like

> meeting me, then did it take time ? The saint then said that O

king,

> similarly if Parmaatma feels like meeting us then there will not be

> any delay. Then the king asked how will Parmaatma feel like meeting

> us ? The saint asked the king that how did you feel like meeting

> me ? The king said that I saw that you were walking in your own

> world without paying any attention to the road, market, shops,

> house, people, happenings etc. so I felt like meeting you. Then the

> saint told that O king, similarly if you focus only on Parmaatma

> without looking at anyone else, if you cannot remain without Him,

> then Parmaatma will feel like meeting you and He will meet you

> instantly.

>

> We have created barriers in Parmaatma realization by beliefs such

> as – He can be met only by saints, He can be met only if we go and

> reside in forest, How can we meet Him without a Guru (Preceptor)?

> These days there are no real Gurus to lead us to the path of His

> realization so How will we meet Him ? If we are not destined then

> how will we meet Him ? Since we are not eligible how will we meet ?

> Our Karma are not such that we can meet Him ? etc. etc.. We have

> suppressed Parmaatma below these various barriers. In such a

> situation what can Parmaatma do, how can He meet us?

>

> It is absolutely wrong to assume that Parmaatma will be realized in

> exchange for some qualification (Yogyata). It is a rule that cost

of

> any thing we buy in the market in exchange for money is always less

> than the money we paid for. Similarly, if we believe that Parmaatma

> can be realized in exchange for certain special Yogyata or Sadhan

or

> Austerities, Charity etc. then He will be less in value compared to

> these things, which he is not.

>

> When something is ample in supply and the demand is less then that

> thing is available in the market for very cheap price, because the

> seller is interested in disposing off the stock. Similarly, it is

> very easy to get Him in Kaliyuga because now there are very few

> takers for Him. Therefore, we should not have such Bhava

> (sentiments) that how can Parmaatma be realized easily in Kaliyuga.

> Just determine firmly that come what may, we have to realize

> Parmatma.

>

> If we engage in purifying ourselves first then it will delay His

> realization. Instead of our efforts, His grace will purify us

> instantly. If a child is fully covered with mud etc. and comes to

> the mother, then the mother herself cleans him.

>

> No knowledge or qualification but only mineness in Parmaatma is

> essential to attract Parmaatma, just as a child attracts his

mother.

> This mineness has great powers to attract Parmaatma. It is only due

> to mineness that Prahlaad had with Parmaatma that Parmaatma

appeared

> from a stone pillar. Mirabai said " Mere to Giridhar Gopal, Dusro Na

> Koi Re " .

>

> The delay in His realization is being caused ONLY due to lack of

our

> INTENSE DESIRE to realize Him, otherwise there is no delay in

> meeting Him. Such intense desire is only possible if we renounce

the

> worldly desires. We can realize Him by Ananya Bhakti (only desiring

> Him) – Gita 11:54. Then, it is His responsibility to address any

> deficiency in the Sadhana of a Bhakta. If a Bhakta forgets Him in

> his last moments for some reason, then He Himself reminds the

Bhakta

> of Him.

>

> Krishna has declared Bhaktiyoga as superior to all other means and

> Bhaktayogi as best amongst all the Sadhakas (Gita 6:47 and 12:2).

>

> Narayana Narayana

>

> Rajendra J. Bohra

>

>

> Dear sadhaks,

>

> My humble respects, and my foolish attempts to offer something

> to this discussion....from the Caitanya Caritamrta.....(Adi2.1)

>

> sri caitanya prabhum vande balo 'pi yad-anugrahat

> taren nana mata graha vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

> " I offer my obeisances to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy

> even an ignorant child can swim across the ocean of conclusive

> truths, which is full of the crocodiles of various useless

theories. "

>

> from the Ananta-Samhita/Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu bhagavata:

>

> krsnas caitanya-gaurangau gaura-candrah saci-sutah

> prabhu-gaurau gaura-harir namani bhakti-dani me

> " I bestow prema-bhakti upon whoever chants My names such as Krsna,

> Caitanya, Gauranga, Gaura-candra, Saci-suta, Prabhu, Gaura, and

> Gaura-hari. "

> from the Sri Vidagdha-madhava, of Rupa Gosvami

>

> anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau

> samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva-bhakti-sriyam

> harih purata-sundara-dyuti kadamba-sandipitah

> sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah

>

> " May the Supreme Lord, who is known as the so of Srimati Saci-deve,

> be brilliantly situated in the innermost core of your heart.

> Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in

the

> Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation

has

> ever offered before; the most sublime and radiant mellow of

> devotional service, madhurya-rasa (as manjari-bhava), service to

> Srimati Radhika as Her confidential maidservants. "

>

> And finally, to conclude my humble presentation from the " Sri

> Slokamrtam " of Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj: (from the Brhan-

> Naradiya-Purana 38.126/and Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 17/21)

>

> " harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam

> kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha "

> " In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy the only means of deliverance

> is chanting the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no

> other way, no other way " .

>

> my humble thanks, for the moderators and readers allowing me the

> opportunity to remember these sacred verses.

>

> kadaham yamuna-tire, namani tava kirtayan...

> udvaspah pundarikaksa!! racayisyami tandavam

> " O lotus-eyed Krsna, when, upon the banks of the Yamuna, will I

> chant Your holy names and dance like a madman, my eyes brimming

with

> tears of love? "

>

> Mahalaksmi dasi

>

> Dear Vyas,

> In kaliyuga ,the easiest path to follow is to chant the name of the

> Lord---Nama Japa, Nama Smarana...

> Gita: In Meditation,I am Japa.

> Regards,

> In Sai Smaran,

> N K Srinivasan

>

> -

> Dear Sadhaks,

> Life is not bed of Roses goes saying. What is easy for one is very

> tough for someone.

> If mental pleasure is there than Moon light night, scenic

> environment is happiness. The same situation when mind is in agony

> everything appears frustrating.

> In Sat Yug Tapa- In tretha you Japa- in Dwaperyug Yagna and in Kali

> yug " Namasankerthan " (Reciting Name of Bhagavan), says sastras

> (scriptures). But Namasankeethan has to be said with body mind and

> intellect aligned.

> One saint known as Patinathar of recent time said, " my mouth is

> saying your Nama, my hands are doing something else, my eyes are

> looking somewhere, my mind is wondering, Oh Bagavan Shiva grant me

> the boon so that I can fully concentrate on YOU. "

>

> Easiest way for Sadhak is follow foot steps of Gopies. Gopies were

> always talking of Krishna, selling curd by name of Krishna,

churning

> milk singing about Krishna, and when they had time to sit and relax

> they held Satsangh saying leelas of Krishna. That is why Uddhava

> sitting in front of Krishna in Mathura use to bow down towards

> Nandgokul where gopies lived. Uddhava has said to Krishna the

> pranams not for you, Oh Krishna but to Gopies of Brindavan.

>

> There was no food for Namadev children who were crying out of

> hunger. Namadev said to his children, " Vittala Bolo, Vittala Bolo. "

> Dear Sadhaks, Vittala did come as a passer by and cooked food for

> the whole family. This did happen. One can visit Panderpur and see

> Saint Namadev house. Many things people do not believe, then how

can

> faith come ? Even if one says without faith Hare Krishna, Sri

> Krishna multiplies baktha's faith.

>

> Bhagavan said during war in Kuruchetra to Arjuna to shout as, " My

> Baktha will never be forsaken " . But Arjuna shouted, " Krishna Baktha

> will never be forsaked " . Bagavan again said, Arjuna tell that your

> Baktha will not be forsaked and not MY baktha.

> Therefore engage you mind in Shri Krishna at all times. No Japa No

> Tapa is needed, simply become engaged in Him like the Gopies doing

> everything only for Shri Krishna.

> B.Sathyanarayan

>

> --------------------------------

> Does GITA tell 'Tat Twam Asi' ?

> Does it mean " ananya bhava " is self study ?

> Does It mean 'A Hermit can achieve it' ?

> Does a Saint say, " GOD is realised by seeing the creation around " ?

> Or else it's selfishness !

>

> Swapan Purkayastha

> -

> Dear Sir

>

> 1)I sincerely appreciate your reply and my regard for you has

> increased manifold. You are doing a good job by moderating this

> group.

>

> 2)I certainly found your reply to be offensive as such d

> from the group. However ,unsubscribing from the Group does not mean

> I have anything against anyone. This means only that no purpose

> would be served by continuing to be member of the Group.

>

> 3)I stand firmly on my statement that " there is no easy path all

> path requires same effort " based on and backed by following

> understanding:-

>

> a) While Bhagwan Krishna explains all the paths in Gita ,he

> nowhere indicates or suggests to Arjuna that this is the easier

path.

>

> b) If there was a easier path,Bhagwan Krishna would have

> mentioned that path only and Gita would have been of one chapter

> only.

>

> c) Bhaktimarg seems easy but it is the most difficult because

> human mind is not designed for complete surrender.

>

> 4) From my personal experience of past lives and this life and

> thorough understanding of Jainism ,Buddhism and Hinduism I have

> reasons to believe that there is no easy path.I am one of the very

> few jains who has been so much inspired by Gita that for past six

> years have been actively propagating study of Gita.I recently got

> Astavakra Gita printed and distribute the same to Sadhaks.

>

>

> 5) I will be obliged to receive from you information about easier

> path as mentioned in Gita.

>

> 6) As a mark of respect for you , I am subscribing to the Group

> again.

>

> regards

>

> Ashok Jain

>

>

> -

> shree hari

> ram ram

>

> Ashokji, Thank you ! We are so pleased to read the last part (6)

> and as a matter of fact the entire email ...

>

> There is a definite purpose to be served by this association (with

> Gita Talk). These are not ordinary associations... they are divine

> blessings from Paramatma Himself.

>

> Ashokji, also having this in-depth knowledge of Jainism, Buddhism

> and Hinduism and Astavakra Gita, it will be wonderful to share with

> the group from time to time, to help all sadhaks. Please see if you

> can include references, so sadhaks can do some further study and

> inquiry in their own time.

>

> Your message will be posted to Gita Talk and I am certain you will

> get some insightful replies on the easier path.

>

> We look forward to your participation.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

> Friends

> 1)In 1st Verse of Chapter 12,Arjuna asks similar question but no

> definite answer is given by Bhagwan Krishna.

> 2)In Gita different ways are explained but preference of one path

> over another path is not given.

> 3)There is no easy path and all path requires same effort.

> 4)The path appearing easy is in reality more difficult path.

> 5)Will be obliged to know the easiest path as per Gita with

specific

> reference of Gita sloka.

>

> Ashok Jain

> -----------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

>

> Ashokji, Please see the Gita reference provided by Vyasji, and let

> us know if you have specific issues with what has been addressed.

> We cannot send message to almost 10,000 sadhaks without furthering

> the understanding of Gitaji. Also to make general statements

> like " There is no easy path and all path requires same effort. "

will

> require you to do some additional homework to point out why you

have

> concluded so... We have to be more deligent in what we share to so

> many sadhaks, to avoid further wasting their time and effort.

> Thank you for your participation and we are eagerly looking forward

> to a more complete response with Gita references.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> ------------------------------

> Thanks regards

> A K Jain

> ------------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

> Ashokji, why would you so quickly? Was there anything

> offensive about what was said ? or is it not worth the trouble ?

> How can one studying Gitaji, not be willing to share what they know

> with other sadhaks? How can sharing the Truth with the Universe at

> large, not be worth the time and effort? I would sincerely

> appreciate if you can rejoin with us, as your statement does end

> with a question, which may lead to an answer that may be something

> transforming... I look forward to your subscribing again... Thank

> you in advance !

>

> -

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

> -------------------------------

> In Kaliyug, NAMASANKEERTAN IS THE BEST WAY TO CROSS THE BHAVSAGAR.

> G.VAIDYANATHAN.

> --------------------------------

> shree hari

> ram ram

> Vaidyanathanji, Could you please give us a Gita Reference where

> this might be stated ? If not in Gita, please indicate not in Gita,

> but also provide where referred in other scriptures... this will be

> very beneficial. thank you for your participation with the

> group.

>

> Gita Talk Moderator

> Ram Ram

>

> -------------------------------

> To Geeta Talk Moderator

>

> I forgot to mention Gita Reference in one para. Hence the following

> para be replaced in place existing para-

>

> A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan , (ii) know Bhagwaan , and (iii)

> realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava- Gita 11:54

>

> Thanks

> Vyas N B

>

> -----------------------------

> Hari Om

>

> The best thing about the question is that it necessitates me to

talk

> with reference to Gita particular verses in reply. I have tried in

> this response to be exact in the wordings while quoting Gita.

>

> Nothing can be more easy than " ananya bhava " (meaning " no other "

> sentiment / inner expression) which a Bhakta adopts as means for

his

> Bhakti Yoga. This " ananya bhava " as been summarised by Mirabai

as :-

>

> Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na Koi

>

> (Only Krishna is mine, no other is mine)

>

> Insistence on " doosaro na koi " - (no other is mine) creates " ananya

> bhava " in you. We all feel that Prabhu (our beloved Bhagwan) is

> ours, but we all also feel that a lot of other things are also of

> ours. That is agaist the principle - Doosaro na koi.

>

> Who are others? Everybody / Everything except Paramatma are others

> including wealth, wife, children, family, incidences, happenings,

> mind, intellect, ego, body. Only Paramatma is yours - NOTHING

ELSE..

>

> When a Bhakta renounces shelter, liking and importance of all

others

> except Bhagwan, then he is said to have developed " ananya bhaav " .

> The moment he does it :-

>

> Bhagwaan becomes " easy to realise " (sulabh) - Gita 8:14

>

> Bhagwaan takes responsibilty for making available to him all that

is

> needed for him - Gita 9:22

>

> Bhagwaan ensures that you cross the ocean of birth and

> death " QUICKLY " - Gita 12:7

>

> A Bhakta can - (i) see Bhagwaan, (ii) know Bhagwaan, and (iii)

> realise Bhagwaan by this " ananya bhava

>

> Bhagwan assures a Bhakta that the moment he surrenders his mind and

> intellect to Him, - (i) he doubtlessly gets Him - Gita 8:7 and (ii)

> he doubtlessly remains established in Him only - Gita 12:8

>

> It is such an easy process that if you have nothing costly to offer

> to Prabhu, you can offer even flowers, leaves, fruits, water etc

> with devotion - and Bhagwaan eats the same - Gita 9:26

>

> If you don't have even water, flowers, leaves etc also to offer ,

> then a simple mental offering to Him of WHATEVER you eat, do, give.

> etc is enough for you to be dear to Him - Gita 9:27

>

> If you take the aforesaid simple, logical, natural steps it is

> guaranteed by Gita that you will get released of all the bondages

> and realise Paramatma - Gita 9:28

>

> Can there be a simpler thing? No !

>

> As simple as that ! !

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

> -------------------------

>

> 1. Sahaja Yoga.

> 2. Surrender at the feet of the Divine.

> 3. Reaching out to the people with message of Peace & Harmony !

>

> Rameshwar Sabhlok

>

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> NARAYAN NARAYAN

>

> In English

>

> In Kaliyug which is the easiest path to cross this ocean of life?

> (God Realisation)

> Does Gita clearly state that ? Where (which verse) ?

>

> In Hindi

>

> KALYOUJ MAI BHAVSAGAR PAR UTAR NE KA SABSE SARAL RASTA KAUN SA HAI-

> (Bhagwat praapti ka?)

> GITA MEIN YEH LIKHAA HAI? Kaunse shloka mein?

>

> R.C.VYAS

>

>

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses

> which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be posted.

>

> 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

least

> once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> other scriptures to substantiate your response.

>

> 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

one

> (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

>

> 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

>

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

>

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

>

> 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

> (but not links to other sites).

>

> 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

>

> 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

>

> 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

posted

> which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

>

> 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

> is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

> being asked.

>

> 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed wherever possible.

>

> 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the

> stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

>

> 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

> spiritual learning and sharing.

>

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>