Destruction of Attachment - Chapter 18 ,Verse 73

August 12, 2008

Friends

In the Verse 72 of 18th Chapter , Bhagwan asked Arjuna – " whether

your attachments (Moha) arising from ignorance have been destroyed.

In Verse 73 of 18th Chapter Arjuna replied –My attachments have

been destroyed, I have regained memory and my state of being is

beyond doubts.

Some questions on Arjuna's reply :-

1) What were the attachments of Arjuna and whether those attachments

are present in us.

2)What are the strong attachments we have and how does it impact our

life.

3) Why Arjuna said I have regained memory. Bhagwan had not asked

about regaining memory.

4) What is the connection between destruction of attachments and

memory.

5)What is the connection and relevance of being beyond doubt (gat

sandeh) with attachment destruction and memory.

Regards

Ashok Jain

-------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

Has Swamiji shared anything on what we should do first?

1) Remove (destruction of) attachment from the World or

2) Develop Devotion for God

Any direction provided in Gita or Ramcharitramanasa or any other

scriptures on which comes first?

Jai Shree Krishna

A Sadhak

--------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

one (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

(but not links to other sites).

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

being asked.

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the

stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

August 12, 2008

QUESTION A: In Gita 18:73 Arjuna replied – My attachments have been

destroyed, I have regained memory and my state of being is beyond

doubts. Questions: 1) What were the attachments of Arjuna and

whether those attachments are present in us? 2)What are the strong

attachments we have and how does it impact our life ? 3) Why Arjuna

said I have regained memory? Bhagwan had not asked about regaining

memory. 4) What is the connection between destruction of

attachments and memory? 5)What is the connection and relevance of

being beyond doubt (gat sandeh) with attachment destruction and

memory. Ashok Jain

--------------------------------

QUESTION B: Has Swamiji shared anything on what we should do first?

1) Remove (destruction of) attachment from the World or 2) Develop

Devotion for God? Any direction provided in Gita or

Ramcharitramanasa or any other scriptures on which comes first?

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

All throughout Gita, Arjuna presented questions in different

contexts, but always assuming he was an individual whose reality was

based on body-mind identification. Such identification leads one to

believe others, too, are individuals and relationships with them

and " things " of the world are also as real. When this assumption is

not questioned, likes and dislikes take strong roots in one's

psyche. Out of strong likes and dislikes, attachments(and aversions)

take place toward holding onto those things and people considered

belonging to one.

Since things and people are everchanging, there is never a lasting

happiness in them. At best there is temporary gratification of

senses in them which results in hankering after more objects all

through the life. This is the sad story of life, due to attachments

out of fundamentally wrong notions and/or beliefs about oneself

being an individual.

This is our attachments as much as Arjuna's, all from one wrong

identification.

Krishna provides answers to all his questions which finally wipe out

wrong notions in Arjuna, pointing out the fact that He is not such a

body-mind based individual afterall. He even tests him by asking he

really listen to Him(Ch 18/72). Just as Arjuna, we all are truly

devoid of individuality. Individuality is the Ignorance!

By pointing to Viswa Swarupa(Cosmic Form- Ch 11) He even showed him

that everything is Just Him, One Conscious Existence appearing as

variety of names and forms.

Arjuna, realized this truth that it was just his delusion(moha) that

had covered this fact, making him forget the truth about his being

universal Atma from the beginning, not an individualised soul he

thought he was, nor he had any relationship to any one other than

role playing. This made him say he regained his memory upon

attentively hearing and contemplating Krishna's words(18/73). His

dellusion of taking everything real was destroyed. Our original

memory is always that we are " Self " , but gets forgotten due to

taking false as real, and is regained when false falls away!

Just as Arjuna did, we, too forget our Real nature being

Consciousness, Witnessing presence relative the world, by taking our

false stand as body-mind based person.

Namaskaras.............Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

--------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Reaching out for GOD, searching for truth, starts to place

attachments further and further from ones heart it seems.

A point comes when one does not fear to stand alone, all the

religions that one look at seemed flawed. But the reality of GOD

gets stronger and stronger. A point may come when ones life seems to

be in jeopardy, but nothing will stop one from allowing the Grace of

the Divine to work upon one.

The realization that there is more than the five senses, these are

limitation of the great impostor,(ego mind). To observe the curtain

of time start to shred, to sense the common energy that pervades all

existence, to look into the face of humanity and see oneself.(there's

memory here, uncluttered).

Ones attachments start to crumble,(they are born of the ego mind).

To say almost nothing, preferring to be ridiculed than offend.

Letting go of pride.

Ashok Jain, thank you for drawing attention Chapter 18, on reading

it I found a certain peace in my heart. I believe it is the love of

Bhagwan, that turns the key.

With Respect and Divine Love'

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

--------------------------------

Answers to Sadhak's questions from Bhagavan's question and Arjun's

reply are very much interesting.

1) The attachments of Arjuna are -- ' Seedanti mama gatrani

mukhamchaparisushyati' - attachment of body, my limbs give way, my

mouth is perching shiver runs through my body and hair stands

upright - 'Aacharyah pitarah putrahstadhaivacha pitamahaah',

attachment to the relationship over the duty to be performed -

'Patanti pitaro', attachment to gataasuhu , to the dead past people -

' Streeshu dustasu', attachment to future of women and traditions -

'Narakeniyatamvaso, attchment to heaven and fear attachment to hell.

We are having all the attachments of Arjuna + 1000 multiplied by 1

billion.

2) Our strong attachments are 'Putradaaragruhadishu', these are the

only attachments of anybody in this world. They are summarised by

AdiSankar in Vivekachudamani as Eeshanaatrayam, Dhaneshana,Daaresha

and Putreshana. Their impact in our lives is simply disastrous

resulting in distress,depression and illusionary happiness and

pleasure.

3) Bhagavaan asked Arjuna 'Kachhidetat -- sammohaha pranastaste

Dhananjaya' has your delusion born out of ignorance melted away

giving place to regain memory.

4) The destruction of attachment results in memory of the original

form of consciousness just like coming of light is not different

from going of darkness.

'Asaktiranabhshvangaha putradaara gruhaadishu' destruction of

attachments give memory of your originality.

5) By being beyond doubt 'Stitosmigata sandehaha karishe

vachanamtava' shorn of all doubts wisdom blooms and one will follow

the bidding of Bhagavan 'Karishe vachanamtava' is followed for a

meaningful happy living luxuriously with no attachments and

ultimately paves way for bliss and MOKSHA.

G.Anjaneya Sharma

> --------------------------

>

> GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

>

> 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will

be

> posted.

>

> 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

least

> once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> other scriptures to substantiate your response.

>

> 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

> one (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

>

> 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

>

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

>

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

>

> 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> discouraged, however references may be made of the book or author

> (but not links to other sites).

>

> 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

>

> 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

>

> 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

posted

> which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

>

> 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

> is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the question

> being asked.

>

> 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed wherever possible.

>

> 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

> the

> stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

>

> 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

> spiritual learning and sharing.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

August 12, 2008

QUESTION A: In Gita 18:73 Arjuna replied – My attachments have been

destroyed, I have regained memory and my state of being is beyond

doubts. Questions: 1) What were the attachments of Arjuna and

whether those attachments are present in us? 2)What are the strong

attachments we have and how does it impact our life ? 3) Why Arjuna

said I have regained memory? Bhagwan had not asked about regaining

memory. 4) What is the connection between destruction of

attachments and memory? 5)What is the connection and relevance of

being beyond doubt (gat sandeh) with attachment destruction and

memory. Ashok Jain

--------------------------------

QUESTION B: Has Swamiji shared anything on what we should do first?

1) Remove (destruction of) attachment from the World or 2) Develop

Devotion for God? Any direction provided in Gita or

Ramcharitramanasa or any other scriptures on which comes first?

-

Hari Om

Here is reply to your first question- What were attachments/

delusions (moha) of Arjuna ?

Arjuna had two types of attachments/delusions . One - worldly

attachments/delusions ( Gita 2:52) Two- philosophical attachment/

delusions/confusions ( Gita 2:53)

Egoism in Body and mineness with body, mother, father, children,

family, things, matters etc is " moha " - this is worldly attachment.

Getting confused and having doubts , apprehensions etc in/regarding

various paths prescribed in Scriptures for your salvation,

like " dvaita " ,(whether Paramatma and Jeeva remain always eternally

2 ) " advaita " , ( whether all is 1 only) " vishista dvaita " etc,

methodologies to be adopted, getting perplexed by what is heard

regarding multifarious ends and means in all their relations,

getting intellect confused on the issues relating to duty, (what is

proper /improper)getting confused say reg whether I should strive

for Paramatma realisation or for doing duty towards family and world

etc, getting entangled in differences among paths or regarding life

of activity and life of retirement etc - distractions and doubts,

are " philosophical/ scripture related Moha "

Both types of " mohas " of Arjuna came to an end here.Although Arjuna

had stated in Gita 11:1 also that his " moha " had come to an end but

that was not a reality as later on he got fearful seeing Krishna in

his universal/terrible form. Krishna then told him - " Don't get

afraid or bewildered " ( Gita 11:49). His real " moha " thus got

destroyed in 18:73 only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-

18.73; Arjuna said: By your grace my delusion is destroyed. I have

gained self-knowledge; my confusion (with regard to body and Atma)

is dispelled; and I shall obey your command.

Kanayalal Raina

-

devotion to god is the seat of further experiences.

duty to one's demands of the circumstances should be attended

besides the mind to the aspect of devotion to lord however it is .

there is no time limit or quantity limit and quality limit.

quality automatically rises as the practice is pursued. acara is a

mark of good peace and character happiness.

it is said people might enjoy and be at comfort now. it may be

temporary.

Punya is a common gain to all.it may be a bird or man or any jivi

holding life on the earth.

Life is however is the precious.

if in comfort out of ire pride and ego and other feelings people

might show speed in acts good and bad. the effects are definte to

occur.It is a philosophy those who do subham they reap subham andif

it is otherise the effects are accordingly.

no need to to go always for clarifications everybody is in the same

pool with or without knowledge. If it is with knowledge care dawns

and mangement figures and ways to be happy crop up.

so devotion is powerful as we notice in Dhruva or Arjuna.

Prabhakar C L

>

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> All throughout Gita, Arjuna presented questions in different

> contexts, but always assuming he was an individual whose reality

was

> based on body-mind identification. Such identification leads one

to

> believe others, too, are individuals and relationships with them

> and " things " of the world are also as real. When this assumption

is

> not questioned, likes and dislikes take strong roots in one's

> psyche. Out of strong likes and dislikes, attachments(and

aversions)

> take place toward holding onto those things and people considered

> belonging to one.

>

> Since things and people are everchanging, there is never a lasting

> happiness in them. At best there is temporary gratification of

> senses in them which results in hankering after more objects all

> through the life. This is the sad story of life, due to

attachments

> out of fundamentally wrong notions and/or beliefs about oneself

> being an individual.

> This is our attachments as much as Arjuna's, all from one wrong

> identification.

>

> Krishna provides answers to all his questions which finally wipe

out

> wrong notions in Arjuna, pointing out the fact that He is not such

a

> body-mind based individual afterall. He even tests him by asking

he

> really listen to Him(Ch 18/72). Just as Arjuna, we all are truly

> devoid of individuality. Individuality is the Ignorance!

> By pointing to Viswa Swarupa(Cosmic Form- Ch 11) He even showed

him

> that everything is Just Him, One Conscious Existence appearing as

> variety of names and forms.

>

> Arjuna, realized this truth that it was just his delusion(moha)

that

> had covered this fact, making him forget the truth about his being

> universal Atma from the beginning, not an individualised soul he

> thought he was, nor he had any relationship to any one other than

> role playing. This made him say he regained his memory upon

> attentively hearing and contemplating Krishna's words(18/73). His

> dellusion of taking everything real was destroyed. Our original

> memory is always that we are " Self " , but gets forgotten due to

> taking false as real, and is regained when false falls away!

> Just as Arjuna did, we, too forget our Real nature being

> Consciousness, Witnessing presence relative the world, by taking

our

> false stand as body-mind based person.

> Namaskaras.............Pratap

> (Pratap Bhatt)

> --------------------------------

>

> -Shree Hari-

>

> Reaching out for GOD, searching for truth, starts to place

> attachments further and further from ones heart it seems.

> A point comes when one does not fear to stand alone, all the

> religions that one look at seemed flawed. But the reality of GOD

> gets stronger and stronger. A point may come when ones life seems

to

> be in jeopardy, but nothing will stop one from allowing the Grace

of

> the Divine to work upon one.

>

> The realization that there is more than the five senses, these are

> limitation of the great impostor,(ego mind). To observe the

curtain

> of time start to shred, to sense the common energy that pervades

all

> existence, to look into the face of humanity and see oneself.

(there's

> memory here, uncluttered).

>

> Ones attachments start to crumble,(they are born of the ego mind).

> To say almost nothing, preferring to be ridiculed than offend.

> Letting go of pride.

> Ashok Jain, thank you for drawing attention Chapter 18, on reading

> it I found a certain peace in my heart. I believe it is the love of

> Bhagwan, that turns the key.

> With Respect and Divine Love'

> Mike

> (Mike Keenor)

> --------------------------------

>

> Answers to Sadhak's questions from Bhagavan's question and

Arjun's

> reply are very much interesting.

>

> 1) The attachments of Arjuna are -- ' Seedanti mama gatrani

> mukhamchaparisushyati' - attachment of body, my limbs give way, my

> mouth is perching shiver runs through my body and hair stands

> upright - 'Aacharyah pitarah putrahstadhaivacha pitamahaah',

> attachment to the relationship over the duty to be performed -

> 'Patanti pitaro', attachment to gataasuhu , to the dead past

people -

> ' Streeshu dustasu', attachment to future of women and traditions -

> 'Narakeniyatamvaso, attchment to heaven and fear attachment to

hell.

> We are having all the attachments of Arjuna + 1000 multiplied by 1

> billion.

>

> 2) Our strong attachments are 'Putradaaragruhadishu', these are

the

> only attachments of anybody in this world. They are summarised by

> AdiSankar in Vivekachudamani as Eeshanaatrayam,

Dhaneshana,Daaresha

> and Putreshana. Their impact in our lives is simply disastrous

> resulting in distress,depression and illusionary happiness and

> pleasure.

>

> 3) Bhagavaan asked Arjuna 'Kachhidetat -- sammohaha pranastaste

> Dhananjaya' has your delusion born out of ignorance melted away

> giving place to regain memory.

>

> 4) The destruction of attachment results in memory of the

original

> form of consciousness just like coming of light is not different

> from going of darkness.

> 'Asaktiranabhshvangaha putradaara gruhaadishu' destruction of

> attachments give memory of your originality.

>

> 5) By being beyond doubt 'Stitosmigata sandehaha karishe

> vachanamtava' shorn of all doubts wisdom blooms and one will

follow

> the bidding of Bhagavan 'Karishe vachanamtava' is followed for a

> meaningful happy living luxuriously with no attachments and

> ultimately paves way for bliss and MOKSHA.

>

> G.Anjaneya Sharma

>

> > --------------------------

> >

> > GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

> >

> > 1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

> > responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji,

will

> be

> > posted.

> >

> > 2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at

> least

> > once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

> > other scriptures to substantiate your response.

> >

> > 3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> > sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should exceed say

> > one (book) page at the most (500 words or so) 3-4 paragraphs.

> >

> > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> >

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> >

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > organizations.

> >

> > 7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

> > discouraged, however references may be made of the book or

author

> > (but not links to other sites).

> >

> > 8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> > number, address etc.

> >

> > 9. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> > since the message is going to the entire group.

> >

> > 10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be

> posted

> > which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

> > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> >

> > 11. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content

> > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

question

> > being asked.

> >

> > 12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > bracketed wherever possible.

> >

> > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or

about

> > the

> > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> >

> > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in

this

> > spiritual learning and sharing.

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

> >

>

August 15, 2008

QUESTION A: In Gita 18:73 Arjuna replied – My attachments have been

destroyed, I have regained memory and my state of being is beyond

doubts. Questions: 1) What were the attachments of Arjuna and

whether those attachments are present in us? 2)What are the strong

attachments we have and how does it impact our life ? 3) Why Arjuna

said I have regained memory? Bhagwan had not asked about regaining

memory. 4) What is the connection between destruction of

attachments and memory? 5)What is the connection and relevance of

being beyond doubt (gat sandeh) with attachment destruction and

memory. Ashok Jain

QUESTION B: Has Swamiji shared anything on what we should do first?

1) Remove (destruction of) attachment from the World or 2) Develop

Devotion for God? Any direction provided in Gita or

Ramcharitramanasa or any other scriptures on which comes first?

--------------------------------

Hari Om

Answer to your second question under A.

We all have all the attachments which Arjuna had - much , much more

in size, and intensity.

Attachment (moha) is the outcome of Ego. Ego generates Raag (likings)

and Dvesha (aversions/dislikings) . Raag/ Dvesha generate attachment.

From attachment arises " mineness " (mamata). From Mamata desires arise.

And " desires " are root cause of all sorrows.

Desires lead a human being to a fall from humanity to worse than even

animals. Because when you look at worldly things , people and

activities with a liking (raag) or disliking (dvesha) ... An

attachment or connection arises inside you with reference that

thing/body/activity. That attachment when it continuously exists

inside you - then a command is generated from your " ego " to

your " intellect " and to your " mind " and as a result a " sankalpa "

arises in you to get associated or disassociated with that worldly

thing or person or activity. That is desire.

If the desire gets fulfilled, then greed and pride arise in you. If

the desire does not get fulfilled then anger or fear arises in you.

When anger or fear or greed or attachment arises , you get too

immobilised/ focussed/ blocked/ limited/stunned/blind. Your

intellect/mind/ego get a shock and you lose control of the overall

situation. Your intellect gets bewildered/confused. Confusion in

intellect causes loss of memory. You forget in a fit of anger or fear

or greed or attachment as to whom you are talking , what you are

talking/doing and what shall be the consequence. You forget your

duty, what you are doing and what you should be doing.

The moment your intellect /memory is gone , you become worse than

even an animal. Because then the distinction between you and an

animal gets eliminated..

That is how the attachment affects a human being.

In fact attachment to worldly life , which is exceedingly dangerous,

bites you like a snake, cuts like a sword, pierces like a spear,

binds like a rope, burns like a fire, blinds like night, makes men,

who have fallen into it unsuspectingly, helpless like a stone, takes

away the understanding, destroys stability and throws them down into

the dark well of delusion. Desire makes one worn out. There is no

distress which a worldly man does not suffer.

Are you clear now on your second question?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-

In regard to question " B " may I present what I have many many times

heard directly related to this question......

If a cup is filled with ink, and you start to pour in milk, the

more milk you pour, the less and less is the dark color. Gradually,

gradually, as more milk is poured, the amount of ink becomes less and

less, to the point where ultimately, the ink is gone, only the milk

is there.

Similarly, our hearts may be full of dirty things, but gradually,

as we allow the beautiful topics of devotion to the Lord to enter,

the heart becomes cleansed, without any separate endeavor. When we

fully absorb ourself in hearing and chanting about the Name, form,

pastimes, and activities of the Lord, there is no longer any space

for material lust, greed, or any other inauspicious qualities.

My deepest respects, Mahalaksmi Dasi

-

> Hari Om

>

> Here is reply to your first question- What were attachments/

> delusions (moha) of Arjuna ?

>

> Arjuna had two types of attachments/delusions . One - worldly

> attachments/delusions ( Gita 2:52) Two- philosophical attachment/

> delusions/confusions ( Gita 2:53)

>

> Egoism in Body and mineness with body, mother, father, children,

> family, things, matters etc is " moha " - this is worldly attachment.

>

> Getting confused and having doubts , apprehensions etc

in/regarding

> various paths prescribed in Scriptures for your salvation,

> like " dvaita " ,(whether Paramatma and Jeeva remain always eternally

> 2 ) " advaita " , ( whether all is 1 only) " vishista dvaita " etc,

> methodologies to be adopted, getting perplexed by what is heard

> regarding multifarious ends and means in all their relations,

> getting intellect confused on the issues relating to duty, (what is

> proper /improper)getting confused say reg whether I should strive

> for Paramatma realisation or for doing duty towards family and

world

> etc, getting entangled in differences among paths or regarding life

> of activity and life of retirement etc - distractions and doubts,

> are " philosophical/ scripture related Moha "

>

> Both types of " mohas " of Arjuna came to an end here.Although Arjuna

> had stated in Gita 11:1 also that his " moha " had come to an end but

> that was not a reality as later on he got fearful seeing Krishna in

> his universal/terrible form. Krishna then told him - " Don't get

> afraid or bewildered " ( Gita 11:49). His real " moha " thus got

> destroyed in 18:73 only.

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

>

> -

> 18.73; Arjuna said: By your grace my delusion is destroyed. I have

> gained self-knowledge; my confusion (with regard to body and Atma)

> is dispelled; and I shall obey your command.

>

> Kanayalal Raina

>

> -

> devotion to god is the seat of further experiences.

> duty to one's demands of the circumstances should be attended

> besides the mind to the aspect of devotion to lord however it is .

> there is no time limit or quantity limit and quality limit.

> quality automatically rises as the practice is pursued. acara is a

> mark of good peace and character happiness.

> it is said people might enjoy and be at comfort now. it may be

> temporary.

> Punya is a common gain to all.it may be a bird or man or any jivi

> holding life on the earth.

> Life is however is the precious.

> if in comfort out of ire pride and ego and other feelings people

> might show speed in acts good and bad. the effects are definte to

> occur.It is a philosophy those who do subham they reap subham andif

> it is otherise the effects are accordingly.

> no need to to go always for clarifications everybody is in the same

> pool with or without knowledge. If it is with knowledge care dawns

> and mangement figures and ways to be happy crop up.

> so devotion is powerful as we notice in Dhruva or Arjuna.

> Prabhakar C L

>

> >

> > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> >

> > All throughout Gita, Arjuna presented questions in different

> > contexts, but always assuming he was an individual whose reality

> was

> > based on body-mind identification. Such identification leads one

> to

> > believe others, too, are individuals and relationships with them

> > and " things " of the world are also as real. When this assumption

> is

> > not questioned, likes and dislikes take strong roots in one's

> > psyche. Out of strong likes and dislikes, attachments(and

> aversions)

> > take place toward holding onto those things and people considered

> > belonging to one.

> >

> > Since things and people are everchanging, there is never a

lasting

> > happiness in them. At best there is temporary gratification of

> > senses in them which results in hankering after more objects all

> > through the life. This is the sad story of life, due to

> attachments

> > out of fundamentally wrong notions and/or beliefs about oneself

> > being an individual.

> > This is our attachments as much as Arjuna's, all from one wrong

> > identification.

> >

> > Krishna provides answers to all his questions which finally wipe

> out

> > wrong notions in Arjuna, pointing out the fact that He is not

such

> a

> > body-mind based individual afterall. He even tests him by asking

> he

> > really listen to Him(Ch 18/72). Just as Arjuna, we all are truly

> > devoid of individuality. Individuality is the Ignorance!

> > By pointing to Viswa Swarupa(Cosmic Form- Ch 11) He even showed

> him

> > that everything is Just Him, One Conscious Existence appearing as

> > variety of names and forms.

> >

> > Arjuna, realized this truth that it was just his delusion(moha)

> that

> > had covered this fact, making him forget the truth about his

being

> > universal Atma from the beginning, not an individualised soul he

> > thought he was, nor he had any relationship to any one other than

> > role playing. This made him say he regained his memory upon

> > attentively hearing and contemplating Krishna's words(18/73). His

> > dellusion of taking everything real was destroyed. Our original

> > memory is always that we are " Self " , but gets forgotten due to

> > taking false as real, and is regained when false falls away!

> > Just as Arjuna did, we, too forget our Real nature being

> > Consciousness, Witnessing presence relative the world, by taking

> our

> > false stand as body-mind based person.

> > Namaskaras.............Pratap

> > (Pratap Bhatt)

> > --------------------------------

> >

> > -Shree Hari-

> >

> > Reaching out for GOD, searching for truth, starts to place

> > attachments further and further from ones heart it seems.

> > A point comes when one does not fear to stand alone, all the

> > religions that one look at seemed flawed. But the reality of GOD

> > gets stronger and stronger. A point may come when ones life seems

> to

> > be in jeopardy, but nothing will stop one from allowing the Grace

> of

> > the Divine to work upon one.

> >

> > The realization that there is more than the five senses, these are

> > limitation of the great impostor,(ego mind). To observe the

> curtain

> > of time start to shred, to sense the common energy that pervades

> all

> > existence, to look into the face of humanity and see oneself.

> (there's

> > memory here, uncluttered).

> >

> > Ones attachments start to crumble,(they are born of the ego mind).

> > To say almost nothing, preferring to be ridiculed than offend.

> > Letting go of pride.

> > Ashok Jain, thank you for drawing attention Chapter 18, on reading

> > it I found a certain peace in my heart. I believe it is the love

of

> > Bhagwan, that turns the key.

> > With Respect and Divine Love'

> > Mike

> > (Mike Keenor)

> > --------------------------------

> >

> > Answers to Sadhak's questions from Bhagavan's question and

> Arjun's

> > reply are very much interesting.

> >

> > 1) The attachments of Arjuna are -- ' Seedanti mama gatrani

> > mukhamchaparisushyati' - attachment of body, my limbs give way,

my

> > mouth is perching shiver runs through my body and hair stands

> > upright - 'Aacharyah pitarah putrahstadhaivacha pitamahaah',

> > attachment to the relationship over the duty to be performed -

> > 'Patanti pitaro', attachment to gataasuhu , to the dead past

> people -

> > ' Streeshu dustasu', attachment to future of women and

traditions -

> > 'Narakeniyatamvaso, attchment to heaven and fear attachment to

> hell.

> > We are having all the attachments of Arjuna + 1000 multiplied by

1

> > billion.

> >

> > 2) Our strong attachments are 'Putradaaragruhadishu', these are

> the

> > only attachments of anybody in this world. They are summarised by

> > AdiSankar in Vivekachudamani as Eeshanaatrayam,

> Dhaneshana,Daaresha

> > and Putreshana. Their impact in our lives is simply disastrous

> > resulting in distress,depression and illusionary happiness and

> > pleasure.

> >

> > 3) Bhagavaan asked Arjuna 'Kachhidetat -- sammohaha pranastaste

> > Dhananjaya' has your delusion born out of ignorance melted away

> > giving place to regain memory.

> >

> > 4) The destruction of attachment results in memory of the

> original

> > form of consciousness just like coming of light is not different

> > from going of darkness.

> > 'Asaktiranabhshvangaha putradaara gruhaadishu' destruction of

> > attachments give memory of your originality.

> >

> > 5) By being beyond doubt 'Stitosmigata sandehaha karishe

> > vachanamtava' shorn of all doubts wisdom blooms and one will

> follow

> > the bidding of Bhagavan 'Karishe vachanamtava' is followed for a

> > meaningful happy living luxuriously with no attachments and

> > ultimately paves way for bliss and MOKSHA.

> >

> > G.Anjaneya Sharma

> >

> > > --------------------------

> > >

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> > >

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> will

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> > >

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> > least

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> > >

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say

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> > >

> > > 4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

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> > >

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> > >

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> > posted

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> > > Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

> > >

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> content

> > > is unclear for distribution or not directly related to the

> question

> > > being asked.

> > >

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> > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

> > > Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > bracketed wherever possible.

> > >

> > > 13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or

> about

> > > the

> > > stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

> > > spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting.''

> > >

> > > 14. There should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in

> this

> > > spiritual learning and sharing.

> > >

> > > MODERATOR

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> >

>

August 17, 2008

QUESTION A: In Gita 18:73 Arjuna replied – My attachments have been

destroyed, I have regained memory and my state of being is beyond

doubts. Questions: 1) What were the attachments of Arjuna and

whether those attachments are present in us? 2)What are the strong

attachments we have and how does it impact our life ? 3) Why Arjuna

said I have regained memory? Bhagwan had not asked about regaining

memory. 4) What is the connection between destruction of

attachments and memory? 5)What is the connection and relevance of

being beyond doubt (gat sandeh) with attachment destruction and

memory. Ashok Jain

QUESTION B: Has Swamiji shared anything on what we should do first?

1) Remove (destruction of) attachment from the World or 2) Develop

Devotion for God? Any direction provided in Gita or

Ramcharitramanasa or any other scriptures on which comes first?

-

Hari Om

Answers to your Q 3 and Q 4.

Krishna had asked Arjuna a question. The then realised soul replied

the question by assuring Krishna that " memory is gained " . That is the

natural, automatic, actionless, spontaneous event occurring to any

sadhak once " the delusion is destroyed " . No other answer would have

assured Krishna who thereafter did not speak at all.

Connection between " destruction of delusion " and " regaining of

memory " is of cause and effect. The moment artificial connection with

the world goes, the already existing natural and eternal connection

gets manifested, gets experienced, gets realised and automatically

enters the mind by way of " smriti " ( regaining of memory).

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--

I prey to whoever has posted the question of linking 'regaining

memory' with 'loss of attachment'. Contemplation on this object can

surely clean pipelines of nervous system and ignorance of mind. It is

deep so it appeared to me.

Memory is called Chitta or picture (Chitra, drawings). This is like a

notebook or hard disk that constantly records obervation

(experience/sensory input, logic/inference, history/indirect or

borrowed recollection) which are relevant. This job of recording and

analysis of memory is called Buddhi (intellect). The relevance or

objective (called Sankalp) which is arbiter whether a memory to be

kept, and another memory be discarded, is decided by Buddhi as well

as Manah. Manah is global and Buddhi is local. Thus, the Chitta is

local memory (inside time), and Mahah is global memory (sanatan,

timeless). In spite of this, Manah follows Buddhi because it is

responsible for anchor into a given time period of life.

RamCharit Manas is a Manas (global memory), by reading and

contemplation of it, it changes the Sankalp, and self nature

(swabhaav) which are property of the Manah. The Manah is global

memory that fully understands Ram Charit Maanas and BhagwatGita with

true realization because it (manah) is not limited to local memory

obtained by physical senses and intellect. Therefore, Sri Ram is

Manah. Sita is Buddhi or intellect (local memory). By reunion of Ram

and Sita, the global memory which is timeless, and local memory which

is contemporary, both are correctly placed. Sita thus gets absorbed

in Ram and this is called recollection of global memory and loss of

attachment (contemporary memory). In the Bhagwat Gita, it is exactly

same reunion of Krishna (manah) and Arjun (buddhi). Arjun has finally

understood all that Krishna tried to explain, and He referred to

endless cycles of rebirth, and growth of new Sankalp, and taking

current life as Arjun.

In Scriptures, there were Manu (manah) and ShatRoopa (Buddhi, that

manifests in world through its action and expression). Manu has

Icchuaku (desires, Sankalp) and these are symbolic to represent

certain concepts of Manah, and Buddhi. Rawan has abducted Sita ji

just as our minds (local mmory) are occupied in various bondages and,

it creates anxiety and unrest, and death. Unless, Hanuman who is Mano

Javam (born out of Manah) gets Sita and Ram then reunion with Her.

I hope this explanation is helpful.

Best regards

K G (krishna gopal)

Dear Sadaks,

1)My relatives, my Guru, my brothers was the attachments Arjuna had

at war field. Where as Arjunas brothers, guru, had NOT that feeling.

Guru was not in his Dharma, relatives were not in their Dharma. So

Krishna said wage war.

2)We have attachments on everything around us except attaching to

GOD. Everything on earth is uncertain this Gynani knows. We are sure

to loosing money, family (father & mother), friends, reputation, age,

etc, but we are not trying to know what is permanant.

3) We know speaking truth is must, but if reminded we recollect.

4)Destruction of attachments leads to understanding of SELF ( Tat Va

Asi) which brings memory of your wasted times.

5) Samadhi state of mind and oneness seen everything and everywhere.

If require I will give examples of people lived who lived as above.

B.Sathyanarayan

-

Earlier postings