This Body is Not Mine

September 23, 2008

There is confusion in this mind regarding " my body is not mine and i

am not the doer " . How far can/should one stretch the idea? At one

level this seems appropriate and I try to identify with it. On the

other extreme, if this body is not mine then does it mean that it is

ok to allow a man who fancies this body, may be this mind too; access to this

body? Where does one draw the line? Where does this stand in respect to societal

norms of monogamy?

Malika S

------------------------------

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2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

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sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

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sites).

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number, address etc.

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

GITA TALK MODERATOR

September 23, 2008

There is confusion in this mind regarding " my body is not mine and i

am not the doer " . How far can/should one stretch the idea? At one

level this seems appropriate and I try to identify with it. On the

other extreme, if this body is not mine then does it mean that it is

ok to allow a man who fancies this body, may be this mind too;

access to this

body? Where does one draw the line? Where does this stand in respect

to societal

norms of monogamy?

Malika S

-----------------------------

-Shree Hari-

This paste is from the latest post of Sadhaka, quoting Swamiji,

'This human body has been received for God Realization...'. I think

that says a lot.

The body is in ones care, you have stewardship over it, you or no

other human owns it.

Gitaji 13:22 through 35, deals a lot, regarding your questions.

In my humble form of expression; the body is the temple of: 'The Most

High', so why would one want to damage it?

After all how would you feel, if some persons defiled your favorite

shrine or temple?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

(Mike Keenor)

------------------------------

Shree Hari

Dear Sadhaka, thanks for a good question.

As Swamiji Maharaj has explained it - The body is not mine and I am

not the body. Truly, I am only a ray of consciousness of the Supreme

(Gitaji: 15-7). Like this world, the body is made of the five

elements. This body does not belong to us, it is gifted to us by God

because of He is compassion for us to grant us a golden opportunity

to accomplish the single purpose of realizing God. The body is like

a chariot, given to us to complete this journey. We have a duty to

take good care of this body to keep it fit & able in order to be

able to serve the mankind, His wonderful creation.

The body is not ours but the karmas we do are ours, i.e.,

consequences of the Karmas we will have to deal with. But when the

actions are done as a dedication to God then we do not have to be

concerned with good and bad fruits of our actions (Gita 9-27 & 28).

Also, when we are doing actions as an offering to Him, we will be

doing only good actions.

We should not claim the doer of actions, because the actions are

done with the help of many other things and people of the world, to

claim ownership would be being dishonest. By claiming ownership we

will be bound (Gitaji: 3-9 & 3-27).

If the body was ours we should have a total control over the body

which we do not have. Everything happening to the body is not

happening with our permission, i.e., aging, falling sick and death

etc. When we consider the body to be ours, all the actions we do

with it become our responsibility, the result of all those fruit of

actions would be to keep us in the loop of birth and death cycle.

The body is a sacred temple and it has to be treated as such. Doing

actions without consideration to what is right or wrong will prove

to be a big mistake. Our Dharma does not allow us to do prohibited

actions, which would cause a chaos in the society. We have a social

responsibility to the society we live in. The holy sages and

scriptures are the guide in discerning what is right and wrong

(Gitaji: 16-24).

Ram Ram

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

This body was not yours, will not remain yours, to believe it to be yours is a

grave mistake. Our relationship with the body is only for doing duties.

Embodied soul, this body and this world, which even though they are not yours,

having considered these to be your own, what kind of justice is that? That

which is yours, you do not consider it to be yours. This is where the mistake

lies.

As long as you consider this body to be your own, till that time, to even think

about your upliftment, your salvation is stupidity. This body is a factory for

producing sewage and dirt, what else is it besides that? Even if you drink

nectar, it turns into sewage, and even if you eat the silkiest foods, it turns

into dirt and come out.

(ramchandra)

IN HINDI

Sharir aapna tha nein apna rahega nahi es ko aapna man na bhari bhool

Hai sharir ke sath aapna sambadh keval karam kar ne ke liye hai

Jeev jagat or sharir(jo aapna nahi hai ushko aapna manna kaha ka

nayay Hai.jo aapna hai us ko aap aapna mante nahi yaha galti hoti hai.

Jab tak sharir ko aapna man te rahoge tab tak kalyan ki bhat

Bhi souchna murakhta hai.

Sharir (mal mutra banane ki machin hai es ke siway or kya hai.

Aap amrit piloo tho mutra banker nikal jayega or mulywan vastu khaloo

Tho mal banker nikal jayegi

(ramchandra)

--------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Sometimes one has a high fever, but wants to attend a wedding. Body

is unabled, mind is abled. Here you and the body are different,

because the body does not listen to you.

Allowing the body to be fancied is wrong. Here one is

distinuguishing that the body is fancied. That thought is doership.

A man fancies a mad woman's body and uses her. The woman nethier

allowed him, nor felt the man used her. Here her mind has non-

doership, as that act was in no way fancied, enjoyed or even

regreted.

A prostitute by her beauty wanted to distort the name of Sant

Tukaram. But when Sant sang a Abang about how the beauty fades,

shrinks, becomes ackward and the Asti. She became another saint.

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

Dear sadak,

We do not know when, how, why, this body came into existence. As a

child will not know about body or soul. When mind introgates deep

within or when some one says, then thinking process starts about

body and soul. If body was our we can control aging, diseases etc.

Often we here someone saying , " look after your health " . Means you

are differant from body and you have to take care of your health. I

am 65 and I was there before beeing in my mother womb. Where was I ?

Now after 80 I may die, then where am I ? Before and after I

existed, since i never came from Nothing. " Karmayesu Jalma, Jalma

Yeshu Karma " . Doing karma birth comes and birth takes place for

Karma. This is the cycle of birth and death as per " Bajagovindam "

Now cought in cycle, by chance one does one of these

pooja/bakthi/namasankeethana/hears lecture on diviness, helps a

sadhu, thinks of Bagavan. That gives a Pala in next birth that you

be born in right place to good parents of divinity, get friends of

Sat Sangh, gets a guru and elevate to Bakthi. Once TRUE Bakthi gets

into mind, you are taken care of by Bagavan and you will surely get

Mukthi. This is there in BG. Raja Bali was in his previous birth a

rat in a temple. Due to Smurithies, the rat in nights licked the

wick of oil lamp to keep light for Bagavan. Rat was Raja Bali who

sent to Patalalok by Vishnu( As Vamana). But Sri Vishnu is the

protector of Bali in Patalalok.

Now about senses/mind/objects. These play a vital role in life

pattern based on your Karmas. Namadev was speeking Sri Krishna and

practically feeding Panduranga. What a gift one can have. But his

karma lead to another birth as Tukaram who went bodily to heaven by

a flying (puspaka Vimam) from Vaikunt Stal (To day one see that

place) Once Namadev was in bakthi, it was Bagavan Sankalp to give

him Gyna and Bakthi and take him to his abode in 1645. So control of

senses (Indriyas) bagavan has said in BG All senses are to obey

Dharma. Many of us can recollect that 20/40 years of life gone like

yesterday. So in this short period one should controls senses, he

becomes GOD loved.

Conscience is beeing illuminated by Bagavan and it says right or

wrong. Draw the line there srticktly. For one to go into Nothing

(where senses are not felt), still that stage of nothing Bagavan

illuminates. Like Valmiki was covered with ants/worms while in

meditating Ram Nam. But when GOD appeared his senses came back. Who

took care of him for years?

In Gujarat a old lady was recovered from debris of earth quake after

80 days alive. Who gave long lease of life. Ram Nam.

For social norms, attend but be wittness never get indulge. See all

that as Maya.

B.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

GITA TALK MODERATOR

September 24, 2008

There is confusion in this mind regarding " my body is not mine and i

am not the doer " . How far can/should one stretch the idea? At one

level this seems appropriate and I try to identify with it. On the

other extreme, if this body is not mine then does it mean that it is

ok to allow a man who fancies this body, may be this mind too;

access to this body? Where does one draw the line? Where does this

stand in respect to societal norms of monogamy?

Malika S

-----------------------------

Hari Om

Your question starts with " Confusion in THIS mind " . " THIS " ( Idam –

BG 13:1) as a rule can not be " YOU " . Hence fundamentally first be

crystal clear that " I am not this body, this body is not mine and

it is not for me " . Lord Krishna started His teachings in Gita at the

outset itself by distinguishing between " YOU " and " Body " – is not

it.? All the three pillars of determining any TRUTH-,viz Shruti (

History, Scriptures), Yukti ( Logic/ Rationale) and Anubhuti ( Your

direct personal experiences) also establish this fact categorically.

Body is neither You, nor for you and not yours- This is TRUTH . Be

certain, you can NEVER NEVER find peace without accepting and

experiencing this fact. NEVER. Aeons have passed already because of

this " Confusion in THIS mind " - aeons will pass if you do not accept

this truth- in this human life. Be certain on that. Nothing will

result if you consider this body to be me or mine or for me because

fundamentally this body is part of nothing only. Hence

fearlessly " accept " this fact that you are not this body, it is not

yours and it is not for you.

Now the Question comes as to the line of demarcation. Once it is

clear that I am not Body ( Including Ego, mind, intellect, sense

organs, gross body) , it is NOT FOR ME and it is not Mine, then what

can you do with this body? This is the question. Answer is that it

has been given to you and it will be taken back from you. YOU HAVE A

RIGHT OF UTILISATION.( It is yours to that extent ONLY) Utilise

this body for service to the world. Utilise this body to serve the

nature. Utilise this body to serve the Lord. SERVE, SERVE and SERVE.

Serve this body also by not allowing it to become lazy. Keep it

healthy- so that you may serve the world better. Learn from this

body. Watch as a witness its functioning. Nothing teaches the " self "

more than the functioning of this marvellous creation of God. ( I

will touch upon the same in next posting). See what a beautiful Gift

you have got from your Loving Father. Your Special Father- God – has

given this special body to His special children for a special

purpose- for a limited time. UTILISE IT PROPERLY.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Narayan Narayan

In our sight we only see two things - 1) that which is perishable

(inert) and 2) that which is imperishable (sentient). The

departments of both are separate. This itself has been called in

the Gita as " the body " and the " one dwelling in the body " , Akshara

(imperishable), kshar (perishable), " field " and the " knower of the

field. " Saint have also called it " that which IS NOT " and " that

which IS " .

Our true Self, is dweller in this body, consciousness,

imperishable, the knower of the field. That form which we see,

which is not our true Self, that is this body, which is inert, which

is perishable, and IS NOT. That which IS is ever attained, and that

which is NOT, it comes and later departs.

First and the foremost, we must understand this point very well,

that I am consciousness and existence. I am not in the form of this

body . Since childhood, so much has changed with this body, but we

have remained the same. We are the same ones. We first see this

body and then we see the Soul (Self). First we see the action and

then we see the inner sentiments. This polish / shine that we apply

on the surface, how long will it last? If we think deeply the it

become evident that Soul (Self, Spirit) is first and then is the

body, the sentiments are first and then come the actions.

Therefore our sight should first go towards the Self (Soul) and the

inner sentiments, not towards this body.

(ramchandra)

IN HINDI

hamaray dekh ne mai dho he chije aathi hein-one,naswan(jadh) two,

avinashi (chetan) dho no ka vibhag aalag aalag hein

isi ko geeta mai sharir or shariri,kshar or akshar, kshetra,

kshetragya or santho ne nahi or hein kaha hai.

Hamara swaroop shariri hein chetan hein avinashi hein akshara hein

kshaitragya hein or roop hein jo hamara swaroop nahi hein vah

sharir hein jadh hein nasvan hein khar hein kshaitra hein or nahi

hein roop hein jo hein roop hein vah nitya prapat hein or jo nahi

roop hein vah miltha hein or bhichud jata hein sharv pratham hamko

ye bhat achi tharah samaz le ni chaheye ki mai chinmay sattaroop hu

sharir roop nahi hu hum khate thai mai bhachpan me tha vahi mai aaj

hu sharir ko dekhe tho bhachpan se lekar aajtak hamara sharir ethna

bhadal gaya ki ush ko phehchan nahi sakte phir bhi hum vahi hein hum

sharir ko pahle dekh kar phir ushme aatma ko dekhte hein phale

akarti ko dekhkar phir bhav ko dekhte hein uper se lagaye polish kab

tak tekigee.vichar karne per sidh ho ta hein ki aatma phahle hein

or sharir piche hein bhav phahle hein or aakruti phiche hein tho

hamari najar phahle bhavroop aatma (swaroop)ki tharaf jani chaheye

sharir ki tharaf nahi.

(ramchandra)

Ram-Ram, This body is like a vehicle given to us (our soul) to

travel in this world and in the process to get liberation (God

Realization). When we have a car (vehicle), we use it to reach our

destination or any other similar purpose. Once that is done, we

don't remain inside it, we come out of it. Then we think of some

thing else. Also, we don't let any body misuse the car or spoil it.

Same is with this body, Krishna has given us (our soul) this

beautiful car (body). Now its our duty to take care of it, because

it is the vehicle, which will take us to the door of liberation. We

all do take care of it, The problem is that we are not ready to come

out of it, we consider our-self as the car itself. That's the

mistake we have to realize Yes realize, and once we realize it, then

no power can make us do the same mistake, which we have been making

since thousand of years, Janam-Janam. (life after life)

Ashok Goenka

--------------------------------

Actually when we understand things [body, mind, matter, time,

energyetc..] in a deeper level then we understand that many of the

social norms are for just ordinary man, not for specially

enlightened.

A fence is for an on ordinary law-keeping person, not for a robber.

fence is nothing for a robber. just like that the social norms are

for an ordinary man for his/her journey, not for an enlightened

being. that is why in the holy texts of most of the religions, you

wont find teachings supporting monogamy.

This subject needs more enlightenment

love

Dr A Thomas

--------------------------------

Where does one draw the line?

For everything, given the personal and environmental constraints, we

draw a line where we are most comfortable with knowingly or

unknowingly. We all are gifted with that ability. Monogamy,

sexuality, human partnership, etc. are purely societal norms as

correctly mentioned here. Monogamy, polygamy, polyandry, etc. are

social conventions subjected to change and hence cannot determine

the spiritual quality in any sense. As far as one is dependent on

the society for living, it is better one conforms with its

restraints to be at peace. On the other hand, to give is fair when

we receive. As far as our worldly interactions are considered we

need to keep redrawing lines of understanding as the world keeps

changing. We become incompatible with the dynamic world around if we

let our notions freeze to their past. The survival instincts we are

borne with is to adapt ourselves to the circumstantial demands as

far as we depend on the world.

The sexuality is neither good nor bad in itself just like any bodily

function (except for its additional physiological implications

particularly with the women folks) it provides perceivable happiness

while dragging us into its enslaving trap binding us with crave and

lust. But, …

Yena rupam rasam gandham shabdaan sparshaanshcha maithunaan |

Etenaiva vijaanaati kimatra parishishyate ||

All the perceivable happiness we extract through vision, taste,

smell, sound, touch and sex are all momentary in themselves and are

non-existent without the support from something that runs the show –

the existential vitality that ensures bodily life. The very

cognition is rooted in one's vitality without which all the

experiences vanish to oblivion.

Na praanena naapaanena martyo jeevati kinchana |

Itarena tu jeevanti yasmaadyetou upashritou ||

The very vitality is not just the existential vitality rooted in

involuntary functions of this body such as breathing, heart beats,

etc., but something on which all these functionalities are

dependent. All the pleasures and pains that we experience are

facilated only by this force which cannot be perceived as such.

Swapnaantam jaagaritaantam cho'bhou yenaanupashyati |

Mahaantam vibhumaatmaanam tato na vijugupsate ||

But the fact is, we attain that very tranquility that we seek at the

end of our wakeful activities as we enter sleep and at the end of

our sleepful inactivity as we enter activities all the time through

all our activities. We fail in our missions and get trapped into

frustration as we digress in our activites loosing awareness of this

ever-present tranquility within. One who acknowledges THAT would not

digress from the tranquility in spite of action as well as inaction.

As far as one is on the digression … one has to keep drawing lines

of checks and balances to keep oneself in existential equilibrium

which is vulnerable to the ever-changing paramaters – both

individual as well as social – of the relative world. One who is

established in the tranquility attains the eternal equilibrium of

The Absolute which cannot be disturbed by anything because nothing

can exist beyond that to attempt modifying THAT. As far as we are

shifting our existential equilibrium toward the eternal equilibrium

it is OK – we are converging. If the opposite is happening … the

divergence insists us to draw more and more lines as we grow pushing

us into more and more painful quarters … nothing can help except

oneself … one has to learn how to draw a line so that no more lines

need to be drawn again at least in that respect … That is Sadhana to

me.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH

In this entire infinite Universes, not even a minute thing such as a

splinter is ours, then how can this body be ours. Keep that which

remains carefully with you, do not get flow with that which is

flowing. Just like neither the gross, subtle or causal body are

ours; similarly, the actions performed by the gross body, nor the

contemplation by the subtle body, nor the meditation and stillness /

samadhi by the causal body, none of these are ours. Because all

activities have a beginning and an end, also every thought /

contemplation has a beginning and an end, and does not remain

forever. This is everyone's experience,

But no one has experience of their own Self coming and going, the

Self ever remains constant. Just like in a drama, one acts like a

king, then it is only for the purpose of the play, it is not real.

But that which is real, we have forgotten it (paramaatma)and that

which is not ours, we have believed it to be ours (body). It is

everyone's experience that we have no control over this body. We

are unable to change this body according to our wishes. That which

we have no control over, to consider that thing as ours is

foolishness. This body is perishable, whereas this self is

imperishable.

(shivkumar naravat)

IN HINDI

aanat bhrahmand mai aannat vastiye hein per unme tenke jithni

vastu hamari nahi hein.phir sharir hamara ke se hu-aa (rahta roop

sahi ker rakho bhahta sang na bhaheje) je se shatul,sukhsam ,or

karan-ye teeno sharir aapne nahi hein e-se he shathul sharir se ho

ne wali kirya shuksam sharir seho ne wala chintan or karan sharir se

ho ne wali shthirta t-tha shamadhi bhi aapni nahi hein. kyoki pertek

kirya ka aarambh or aant aata hein pertik chintan aata or ja ta hein

koi bhi avhstha nirnter nahi rahti in sab ka aane jane ka anubhav

hame hi tha hien.

per aapne aane jane ka(parivertan) anubhav ki si ko nahi hota hein

hamara hina pan niranter rahtha hein. je se natak mai koi raja

bantha tho vho shiraf natak kerne ke liye mane hu-aa hote hein

ashali nahi ho te hein.jo vashtav mai aapna hein us ko bhula diya

(permatma) or jo aapna na hi hein us ko apna man liya (sharir)yeh

hum sab ka anubhav hein ki sharir per aapna vash chalta nahi hum

aapni incha ke anushar sharir ko bhadal nahi sakhte jis per aapna

vash nahi na chale usko aapna manna murakhta hein sharir nashvan

hein or hamara swaroop avinashi hein

(shivkumar naravat)

-----------------------------

Nothing in this world is ours because everything is an illusion. The

only thing real is our soul which we cannot even see. To connect

with the soul we have to meditate. but that does not mean that we

should harm our body or let others harm it. After all it is the

place where our soul resides.

Hari Shanker Deo

--

It depends on what's your mind set.

My body is not mine - If this body & mind is not your's, why do you

need access to others body & mind? If you are in a state where you

are not owning your body, why do you try to own others body? Also,

try to keep the body & mind as perfect as you can as its not your's

and you need to give it back sometime!!

My body is mine - If the body & mind is your's, try to keep it

always perfect and clean. Do not allow any anonymous access to it.

Depends on the person who try to access it, it may get dirty. Your

body & mind is your vehicle to go. So keep it

Prakash Nair

--

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