Easy and Quick Means of God Realization. Can Abhyaas (Practice) lead to God

October 1, 2008

Priy Sadhak vrand,

I have been with this group for quite a long time and have witnessed

quite a questions.

I was contemplating on Swamiji's messages that God's attainment is

very easy, simple and quick. Today when people have complicated

lives & minds, they think that God's attainment (realization) is

very complicated and only Gurus can do it for them. Resultant is so

many said Gurus have emerged like mushrooms and have started their

business of making God attainment possible.

QUESTION 1:

I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of bhakti

and means of realization by this powerful medium of group

Raja Gurdasani

QUESTION 2:

How can man very quickly attain realization of Paramaatma?

In Hindi

MANUSHYA KO JALDHI PARMATAMA PRAPTI KAI SE HO?

(RAMCHANDRA)

QUESTION 3:

Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

KYA SUGAMTAAH POORVAK, ABHYAS SE BHODH HO SAKTA HEIN ?

(RAMCHANDRA)

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

----------------------------

Priy Sadhaks,

In Bhagwad Gitaji Ch.8/14...

Krishnji says I am easly available to them who continuously remembers me in

every aspect

of life.

Ch.9/33-34 Clearly inidicates come in my refuge, talk to me, submit every action

to me,

remember me in this life of human which has nothing but sorrow, full of

uncertainity.

Clearly invites in Ch.18/66..

come to my refuge I will take care of every dharm, karm & mukti.

The problem is we dont rely, believe on gods words, on the contrary in this life

we easily

believe on anyboby who seems to be of our concern. I ask even without believing,

god

takes care then what a beautyfull blissfull will be the situation that we start

believing god

in every smallest act of our life.

for instance we are breathing It is due to gods grace

we can digest what we eat and all parts of our body are functioning well It is

due to gods

grace

Even we can feel our heart beats and thank god for this worderfull instrument in

our body.

like all these start from smallest & we wonder we start remembering god in every

act in

due course.

Why then god realisation is difficult?

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

The answer to Q3 is in the gita:

abhyasa yoga uktena

chetasa nanya gamina

paramam purusham divyam

yati parthanu chintayan

Chatper 8.10(I think)

KKM

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

According to me the process of attaining realization takes time Not quickly.

Buddha tioled

for years. One Vaishnavite Guru Ramanujam took years to get to know how to say,

" Om

Namo Narayanaya " . All Alwars, Nayanmars, Bakthas spents years full time to see

Bagavan.

Tukaram in his abang sings, " Bagavan YOU are not realized for yogies doing

tapas many

years, YOU are not realizable parama purushas, but Bagavan your grace showered

on me

to day'. I am not discouraging.

Tukaram was nobody other than Sant Namadev.

Bagavan in Geetha says, â€œ for one reach me by sadanas, may take few births,

but if I

(Bagavan) makes sankalpa, I (Bagavan) can uplift one in the same birthâ€. That

is quickest.

Sadanas leads to Bakthi and simultaneously gives occult powers to which many

gurus or

sadaks becomes pray, as such it takes several births to reach HIM. Only when

Bakthi

matures it turns to Niskama Prema Bakthi. This stage Bagavan is behind Baktha.

Example:

Baktha Gora, Snena Nayak, Chota Mela, Sant Sakubai etc in Panderpur where

Panduranga

literally worked in their house and was with them. They were not regular temple

goer. In

Tirumala Hills, where Bagavan went to their place of stay leaving sanctum

sanctorum, was

Hat Ram Baba and Malayala swamy.

By reading these great men history, one can get shortest way to reach HIM,

because they

showed certain principles on which Bagavan gets closer.

Gurus are there. But Sat Guru is difficult. Who is Sat Guru? Adi Sankara says,

â€œThe one

who speaks only of God realization, has only one dress to change, goes to Biksha

NOT

more than five houses, does not keep anything for next day, does not get

accustomed to

one place, NO dislikes and likesâ€. The same thing Bagavan says as Guna

Theethan BG. Sat

Guru comes to one who` s mind and intellect (Chitta, Buddhi and Manas) are

pure. When

that purity takes place Pancha gosas, Pancha Pranas automatically becomes pure,

thereby

making change in whole body system. This type of person when walks his radiation

of

Satvikness has effect of 12 Km radius, thereby one can see a loin running behind

pray just

stops remaining silent. Examples: Swamy Narayana, Adi Sankara, Buddha, and our

Bagavan

Sri Krishna.

Simplest Bakthi: Do pooja and offering with care and love. Get fragrant flowers,

chop off

stem/thorny branches, make garland as soft as possible to the extent if you wear

it for

hours it should be comfortable and pleasant. Offer fruits nicely chop into

pieces taking

care to see whether they taste good and has no slightest fungus marks, offer

banana like

they serve to you in five star hotel with stem neatly cut, sing song what you

know with full

mind, shed two drop tears.

Example: Mother Maha Lakshmi came as Sri Andal to earth to do this to Sri

Vishnu. Sabari

In Ramayan did this. Hanuman did this. Some Bakthas of recent years did this.

Quick realization; IS only surrender to Bagavan (Saranagathi) When one

surrenders, he will

not find fault with anybody or anything, (half way through) he will mingle in

Sat Sangh,

apart from daily routine he will not see TV, mix in worldly matters, spend time

in talking

etc,

Example: Kabir Doss was once had guests Gyneswar and Namdev late night. He

rushed to

get some flour (Mava) for Roti. The provision shop wala asked for money to buy

them.

Kabir had No money then and asked for loan. Shop wala refused as Kabir said he

had

nothing at that time. Shop wala asked Kabir to lend his beautiful wife for Mava

and Ghee.

Kabir did so and took Mava.

But shop keeper closing the doors with Kabir` s wife, 2 police jawans knocked

the doors,

beaten shop wala and took kabir wife to her house door step. When Kabir in

dismay asked

how she came, she described that 2 person matching to Sri Rama and Lakshmana.

Kabir

wife was blessed first with Sri Rama Dharshan than Kabir.

Jayadevar while doing Abishek to small idol of Sri Krishna at home, his wife

Padmavathi

use to say, â€œdo slowly and give gap of pouring milk on Krishna as the child

(Krishna)

may suffer suffocation. â€œ For This Manasa Bakthi and love, Bagavan gave

Dharshan

first to Padmavathi.

Dear Sadaks to think and say of Bagavan time and words has NO limit.

B.Sathyanarayan

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

GITA TALK MODERATOR

October 2, 2008

Priy Sadhak vrand,

I have been with this group for quite a long time and have witnessed

quite a questions.

I was contemplating on Swamiji's messages that God's attainment is

very easy, simple and quick. Today when people have complicated

lives & minds, they think that God's attainment (realization) is

very complicated and only Gurus can do it for them. Resultant is so

many said Gurus have emerged like mushrooms and have started their

business of making God attainment possible.

QUESTION 1:

I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of bhakti

and means of realization by this powerful medium of group

Raja Gurdasani

QUESTION 2:

How can man very quickly attain realization of Paramaatma?

In Hindi

MANUSHYA KO JALDHI PARMATAMA PRAPTI KAI SE HO?

(RAMCHANDRA)

QUESTION 3:

Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

KYA SUGAMTAAH POORVAK, ABHYAS SE BHODH HO SAKTA HEIN ?

(RAMCHANDRA)

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

Jai Shree Krishna

dear divine souls a human being howmuch ever

follows all the rituals and divine practices of praying god only

comes from the outer experiences ie what other people say about

god.Did u ever imagined that rituals and dhram is what u do.This has

been clearly explained by lord Krishna that what right decision ur

mind takes to resolve a issue and which satisfies everyone is what

dharma.

Lord says that i dont want any thing in lumpsum from

u " Only Patram, Pushpam " given to me with utmost devotion makes me

feel more happy.So dear souls it is ur own thoughts and ur own

feelings for god which will help u to attain god realisation.As said

by Lord ur all my ansh so ansh can never be seprated from anshi ie

lord so the divine feeling that i am his and he is mine and the rest

is an illusion will surely lead u to ur ultimate goal to reach god.

This body doesnt belong to u.This is 101% true this has

been discussed in our previous discoussions.For example take any

electricity equipment example light once the switch is on we get the

lighting and as soon as the switch is off we experiece darkness why?

because it was the source of electricity through which we were

benefited so far as soon as it is over we are out of source.So as

dear once our Spiritual switch is on we expericne gyan in every good

and bad happenings and once we forget our Lord our existence agyan

captures our mind.So dear keep on thinking lord keep on chanting his

name with " Shraddha and Patience " .One day my dear god father himself

will come to u and say " O son know come to me i had been waiting for

u " .

So never think of fruit just keep on chanting " Jai Shree Krishna " .

He is there in every aspect of ur life

He is there in everything u do.

He is u and u are in him.

This is what called Sadhna dear.wait wait and keep in waiting

like shabriji one day he has to come to his dearones.

With lots of best wishes

Jai Shree Krishna

Rakshita Mehra

--------------------

No Guru can may take you to God. You have to do it yourself through

right thought and karma and through meditation.

Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------

my dandavat pranams to all in this forum

In regard to question at hand, I would ask, isn't it true that by

coming to this forum, looking for answers, accepting truth (or

analyzing statements as untruth), we are searching for guru? We are

learning, by associating with various persons, what is their

character, their basis for speaking, their mood. Isn't it true that

we are looking for inspiration from a person, whom, through their

association, can uplift and direct us? Guru is not a bad

thing.....bad thing is when an individual claims to be guru, but does

not live life solely for the satisfaction of his/her own guru, and

God. Also bad thing is when prospective disciple (all of us) are not

willing to become discerning students. Too eager to make oneself a

blind follower, for whatever reason. To ask questions and be

hesitant to give one's heart is an intelligent quality....disciples

should not be foolish. Then they will be cheated. Nor should they

be blind to the instructions of shastra....wherein it is emphasized,

(Gita 4.34... " Just try to learn the truth by approaching a bona fide

spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service

unto him. A self realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because

he has seen the truth " ....Scripture states that diksa guru is one,

but siksha guru may be many. One who is already elevated in

knowledge can take instruction from every situation, from every

person, even from animals, plants, insects. He is always

learning...but this make take some time to understand. so, in the

interum, if one needs a specific person to call guru, this is, in the

opinion of the scripture, very good path. By developing the serving

mood, one will grow in one's heart. EVEN if the person selected is

not on the topmost level of love of God, (uttama adhikari) if the

disciple/student has a mood of love, of service, etc....he/she will

understand that " let me simply be grateful for as far as this person

can take me.....if I see ungodly qualities, let me not fault find,

but try to keep searching for inspiration....always with gratitude in

my heart for whatever this one or that one has given me. Scripture

has also told, sometimes siksha guru (instructing spiritual master)

is more prominent in life of disciple....sometimes diksha guru

(initiating spiritual master ) is more prominent......the essence is

to constantly be praying to the Supreme Lord, " please let me find

someone with deep realization, high level of love for you, whom I can

serve and associate with. " True guru will never demand money, he

will only inspire others to give, if they are so moved from within,

for projects such as temples, book distribution, food distribution,

etc. Never money for himself to live lavishly.

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

----------------------------

Priy Sadhaks,

In Bhagwad Gitaji Ch.8/14...

Krishnji says I am easly available to them who continuously remembers

me in

every aspect

of life.

Ch.9/33-34 Clearly inidicates come in my refuge, talk to me, submit

every action

to me,

remember me in this life of human which has nothing but sorrow, full

of

uncertainity.

Clearly invites in Ch.18/66..

come to my refuge I will take care of every dharm, karm & mukti.

The problem is we dont rely, believe on gods words, on the contrary

in this life

we easily

believe on anyboby who seems to be of our concern. I ask even without

believing,

god

takes care then what a beautyfull blissfull will be the situation

that we start

believing god

in every smallest act of our life.

for instance we are breathing It is due to gods grace

we can digest what we eat and all parts of our body are functioning

well It is

due to gods

grace

Even we can feel our heart beats and thank god for this worderfull

instrument in

our body.

like all these start from smallest & we wonder we start remembering

god in every

act in

due course.

Why then god realisation is difficult?

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

The answer to Q3 is in the gita:

abhyasa yoga uktena

chetasa nanya gamina

paramam purusham divyam

yati parthanu chintayan

Chatper 8.10(I think)

KKM

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

According to me the process of attaining realization takes time Not

quickly.

Buddha tioled

for years. One Vaishnavite Guru Ramanujam took years to get to know

how to say,

" Om

Namo Narayanaya " . All Alwars, Nayanmars, Bakthas spents years full

time to see

Bagavan.

Tukaram in his abang sings, " Bagavan YOU are not realized for yogies

doing

tapas many

years, YOU are not realizable parama purushas, but Bagavan your grace

showered

on me

to day'. I am not discouraging.

Tukaram was nobody other than Sant Namadev.

Bagavan in Geetha says, â€œ for one reach me by sadanas, may take few

births,

but if I

(Bagavan) makes sankalpa, I (Bagavan) can uplift one in the same

birthâ€. That

is quickest.

Sadanas leads to Bakthi and simultaneously gives occult powers to

which many

gurus or

sadaks becomes pray, as such it takes several births to reach HIM.

Only when

Bakthi

matures it turns to Niskama Prema Bakthi. This stage Bagavan is

behind Baktha.

Example:

Baktha Gora, Snena Nayak, Chota Mela, Sant Sakubai etc in Panderpur

where

Panduranga

literally worked in their house and was with them. They were not

regular temple

goer. In

Tirumala Hills, where Bagavan went to their place of stay leaving

sanctum

sanctorum, was

Hat Ram Baba and Malayala swamy.

By reading these great men history, one can get shortest way to reach

HIM,

because they

showed certain principles on which Bagavan gets closer.

Gurus are there. But Sat Guru is difficult. Who is Sat Guru? Adi

Sankara says,

â€œThe one

who speaks only of God realization, has only one dress to change,

goes to Biksha

NOT

more than five houses, does not keep anything for next day, does not

get

accustomed to

one place, NO dislikes and likesâ€. The same thing Bagavan says as

Guna

Theethan BG. Sat

Guru comes to one who` s mind and intellect (Chitta, Buddhi and

Manas) are

pure. When

that purity takes place Pancha gosas, Pancha Pranas automatically

becomes pure,

thereby

making change in whole body system. This type of person when walks

his radiation

of

Satvikness has effect of 12 Km radius, thereby one can see a loin

running behind

pray just

stops remaining silent. Examples: Swamy Narayana, Adi Sankara,

Buddha, and our

Bagavan

Sri Krishna.

Simplest Bakthi: Do pooja and offering with care and love. Get

fragrant flowers,

chop off

stem/thorny branches, make garland as soft as possible to the extent

if you wear

it for

hours it should be comfortable and pleasant. Offer fruits nicely chop

into

pieces taking

care to see whether they taste good and has no slightest fungus

marks, offer

banana like

they serve to you in five star hotel with stem neatly cut, sing song

what you

know with full

mind, shed two drop tears.

Example: Mother Maha Lakshmi came as Sri Andal to earth to do this to

Sri

Vishnu. Sabari

In Ramayan did this. Hanuman did this. Some Bakthas of recent years

did this.

Quick realization; IS only surrender to Bagavan (Saranagathi) When one

surrenders, he will

not find fault with anybody or anything, (half way through) he will

mingle in

Sat Sangh,

apart from daily routine he will not see TV, mix in worldly matters,

spend time

in talking

etc,

Example: Kabir Doss was once had guests Gyneswar and Namdev late

night. He

rushed to

get some flour (Mava) for Roti. The provision shop wala asked for

money to buy

them.

Kabir had No money then and asked for loan. Shop wala refused as

Kabir said he

had

nothing at that time. Shop wala asked Kabir to lend his beautiful

wife for Mava

and Ghee.

Kabir did so and took Mava.

But shop keeper closing the doors with Kabir` s wife, 2 police jawans

knocked

the doors,

beaten shop wala and took kabir wife to her house door step. When

Kabir in

dismay asked

how she came, she described that 2 person matching to Sri Rama and

Lakshmana.

Kabir

wife was blessed first with Sri Rama Dharshan than Kabir.

Jayadevar while doing Abishek to small idol of Sri Krishna at home,

his wife

Padmavathi

use to say, â€œdo slowly and give gap of pouring milk on Krishna as

the child

(Krishna)

may suffer suffocation. â€œ For This Manasa Bakthi and love, Bagavan

gave

Dharshan

first to Padmavathi.

Dear Sadaks to think and say of Bagavan time and words has NO limit.

B.Sathyanarayan

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, only

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

posted.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged - at least

once in the response. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or

other scriptures to substantiate your response.

3. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time. Under no circustance the answer should be limited to

half a book page, at the most 3-4 paragraphs.

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

7. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to other

sites).

8. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

9. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

10. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

11. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting for mispelling, wordiness that is

irrelevant to the overall core discussion, personal information,

opinions / feelings etc. that do not align with guidelines.

12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

GITA TALK MODERATOR

October 7, 2008

Priy Sadhak vrand,

I have been with this group for quite a long time and have witnessed

quite a questions.

I was contemplating on Swamiji's messages that God's attainment is

very easy, simple and quick. Today when people have complicated

lives & minds, they think that God's attainment (realization) is

very complicated and only Gurus can do it for them. Resultant is so

many said Gurus have emerged like mushrooms and have started their

business of making God attainment possible.

QUESTION 1:

I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of bhakti

and means of realization by this powerful medium of group

Raja Gurdasani

QUESTION 2:

How can man very quickly attain realization of Paramaatma?

In Hindi

MANUSHYA KO JALDHI PARMATAMA PRAPTI KAI SE HO?

(RAMCHANDRA)

QUESTION 3:

Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

KYA SUGAMTAAH POORVAK, ABHYAS SE BHODH HO SAKTA HEIN ?

(RAMCHANDRA)

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

Hari Om

Question is that how you can realise God in a quick time. Answer is

that as soon as you firmly determine that " I am of God, only God is

mine and nothing else is mine " you are on the fastest track to reach

Him. But the determination should be very firm and must be adhered

to. Just As : A newly married girl , once she accepts I am not

bachelor , she never thereafter considers otherwise or forgets her

acceptance level. This is all is needed. It may take a second of

time or it may take aeons and kalpas for you to decide so. Unless

you do that , there may be great karmas by you- but not the God

Realisation.

In His discourse on 6th June, 1994 Swamiji gave a beautiful example

of the solidity of acceptance, when it is made by SELF. He rarely

talked about Himself. In this discourse, He stated that once He had

a dream. In that dream, He dressed like a woman ( Saree/blouse etc)

and went to Durga Temple for worship. He said that in the dream

also, there was a fear existing in Him that He should not touch any

female or by mistake no female should touch Him ! He laughed in the

discourse , stated that inspite of His being in a female dress, and

being a female in the dream, the acceptance made by SELF was so

powerful. He stressed that this is how the acceptance by SELF works.

I don't have any means of verifying this information , but He once

said that a Suhagan (married woman with husband alive) never sees

herself as widow in the dream even. He also said that once you are

married, barring a one or two dreams in the beginning, you never

feel in the dream also yourself to be bachelor. This is the power of

acceptance. Your acceptance " Mere to Girdhar Gopal , Doosara na koi "

has to be that solid. The moment you do so, instantly, you BECOME

DHARMATMA (Gita 9:31). Your all actions then change the course.

Frankly, it is as easy and as quick as that ! If you cant be that

firm then aeons may pass ( In fact they have passed for us before

today) but we will be no where near that element.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gurdasaniji,

According to me, while we all revere Swamiji, there is no need to

follow his words blindly. Also in my opinion, there is no need to

hesitate in questioning his statement. The main reason for that is

that it is not possible for us to understand what may have been the

context or what was his real motive in making that statement. As far

as I understand the only motive of Swamiji to make such a statement

could be to encourage us, because it is generally accepted and

understood that 'God Realisation' is difficult and takes time.

Besides, despite reading characters of so many bhaktas, I have not

found one who would satisfy the statement made by Swamiji. I can

also state that I had the opportunity to request Swamiji to give one

example indicating God Realisation is easy and instant.

Unfortunately, according to me, I did not get an answer, leading me

to believe that statement must have been made only to encourage the

sadhaks.

Further, it needs to be clearly understood that this is a forum

of " Sadhaks " and not " Siddhas " . So each sadhak will be able to

advise only on the basis of his own experience and knowledge. It is

also possible that a sadhak may advise something that may even be

misleading. We need to screen the same and not take that as the last

word on the subject. I say this because in one case some sadhaks

even considered " Naam Smaran " (without understading what 'smaran' -

which is different from mere chanting - means) as useless and

compared it with a tape recorder or a parrot, who will not reach

salvation. I quote such discourses as below

" Bhajan is not " tota ratan " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. "

" Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not

bhajan. It is an action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and

runs after the mind. He accepts suggestion of mind that realisation

is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom. Self becomes

indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a

machine rarely makes a mistake). "

We can only take pity on such sadhak's unfortunate understanding

(but at the same time respecting their right to believe in same). We

need to make an honest attempt to practice what appeals to us.

Notwithstanding what I have said above, please note that the

starting point of the journey is first to have desire to achieve

god. The duration of the journey depends on the intensity of that

desire. As far as the question of sadhana is concerned, there are

three alternatives - Gyan Yog, Karma Yog and Bhakti Yog. One can not

say which suits an individual the most. Best for an individual is to

read Gitaji and decide what appeals to him the most and start that

practice. Please note that Gitaji is a live granth. It answers the

questions of the sadhak like one would expect from a guru.

One more important thing I would like to point out. Mass discourses

are for masses and not individuals. When a sadhak starts sadhana, it

will be important for him to seek the path that suits him most

according to his personal inclination. This always must be on one to

one basis.

Now comes the question as to how to find a Guru. This is a very

tricky question because now a days there are gurus by the dozen

looking for shishyas. Hence, let us start with 'Krishnam Vande Jagat

Gurum'.

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

jai latiyal

In English

We are stuck on one point and that is, nothing can happen without

practice. We therefore think that Self Realization is also through

practice, but in reality, this divine knowledge is not through one's

effort and practice. Through effort / practice we reach a new state

(condition), not enlightenment. Nor can detach from the world. This

point on needs to inquire deeply into it. God realization is

something that is instant. Just like when you want to walk on a

rope, it needs lot of practice, but 2 and 2 are what? For that it

does not require lot of effort. There is no effort in that. There

is a major difference between effort/practice and

realization/experiential knowledge. There is no experiential

knowledge through effort, but a new condition is created. God

Realization is beyond a particular state/condition. Realization of

essential Self is beyond practice/effort. Realization of Self

(Essence) is not the name of a particular state, because wherever

there is a particular state / condition, there is also a

progression, an ending. Realization is beyond a state and also

beyond a period of time (i.e. with ending), in fact it is beyond

both and it is also not lacking in stillness (esthirtaah)

[shivkumar naravat]

In Hindi

Hum logo ke ander ek baat jachi hu-e hein ki her ek kam

Abhayash se ho ta hein. Tatavgyan bhi abhayash se ho ga vastav

mein tatavgyan abhayash se nahi hota Abhayash se ek naye ishtithi

[condition] banthi hein. [bodh nahi hota]

Sansar se shambadh viched na hi ho ta. Yeh bhahut manna karne ki

bhat hein. Parmatma-prapti tatkal ho ne wali vashtu hein Jese rassi

ke uper chalna ho tho abhyash karna padega. Kintu do or do kitna

hotha hein iskey li ye abhyash ki jarurat nahi hogi. Is mai abhyash

ho ta hi nahi. Abhyash or anubhav mein bada anter hein abhyash se

anubhav nahi hota. Balki ek naye shtithi banti hein. Parmatamatatva

ishtithi se atit hein.

Swaroop ka bodh abhayash se sidh ho ne wali chij hein hi naien

abhayash se naye ishtithi banti hein jab ki tatav ishtithi se atit

hein. Tatav bodh ki si ishtithi ka name nahi hein jaha ishtithi ho

ji vaha gatti bhi hogi yeh niyam hein. Tatav ishtithi or gatti do no

se atit hein tatav mein na ishtithi hein. Na gatti hein na

eshthirta hein.

[shivkumar naravat]

---------------------------

My dandavats to all in this fourm,

I am very surprised that one sadhak has stated that one can

achieve God through right thought, karma, and meditation. Please

explain, as I cannot understand how this can be true. Karma,

which is pertaining to good and bad reactions on a material

platform, is a thing of the material world...not the transcendental

world....how can we achieve that which is beyond this world simply

by acting on a karmic level? Or good thought, the Supreme

Absolute Truth can be achieved by good thought? What if my good

thought is killing animals and feeding them to starving

people.....thinking that I am doing good to feed the starving?

There are many people in the world who think like this.....they have

absolutely no sense that to kill animals is bad thought....so, the

point is, who sets the starndard for good thought? If we say Krsna

does, why should we not also accept that He states one should accept

a guru, and render loving service? Why only accept part of what He

says?

Please forgive me if my words cause any offense....I am asking

for clarification of statements made....if there is deeper

understanding that I don't know, to substantiate the claim that God

can be achieved through karma, good deeds, and meditation, please

kindly present some scriptural evidence. Even in regard to

meditation...some say that if you meditate on a chair, a rock,

anything at all, you will achieve God....perhaps there will be some

appreciation for the power of God to create these things...but how

will that type of meditation give understanding of the Personality

of Godhead? If the answer is that one must take direction as to how

to meditate, what type of meditation, well......then one is turning

to another as guru to give guidance in meditation It is unavoidable.

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

----------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

dear divine souls a human being howmuch ever

follows all the rituals and divine practices of praying god only

comes from the outer experiences ie what other people say about

god.Did u ever imagined that rituals and dhram is what u do.This has

been clearly explained by lord Krishna that what right decision ur

mind takes to resolve a issue and which satisfies everyone is what

dharma.

Lord says that i dont want any thing in lumpsum from u " Only Patram,

Pushpam " given to me with utmost devotion makes me feel more happy.

So dear souls it is ur own thoughts and ur own feelings for god

which will help u to attain god realisation. As said by Lord ur all

my ansh so ansh can never be seprated from anshi ie lord so the

divine feeling that i am his and he is mine and the rest is an

illusion will surely lead u to ur ultimate goal to reach god.

This body doesnt belong to u.This is 101% true this has been

discussed in our previous discoussions.For example take any

electricity equipment example light once the switch is on we get the

lighting and as soon as the switch is off we experiece darkness why?

because it was the source of electricity through which we were

benefited so far as soon as it is over we are out of source.So as

dear once our Spiritual switch is on we expericne gyan in every good

and bad happenings and once we forget our Lord our existence agyan

captures our mind. So dear keep on thinking lord keep on chanting his

name with " Shraddha and Patience " .One day my dear god father himself

will come to u and say " O son know come to me i had been waiting for

u " .

So never think of fruit just keep on chanting " Jai Shree Krishna " .

He is there in every aspect of ur life

He is there in everything u do.

He is u and u are in him.

This is what called Sadhna dear. wait wait and keep in waiting

like shabriji one day he has to come to his dear ones.