Easy and Quick Means of God Realization. Can Abhyaas (Practice) lead to God

[Guest guest]

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and

spiritual practices ?

(Original Question in details at the end of page

 

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

 

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

 

A: O God, I am yours and you are mine. O Thakur, whatever I do, I

do it for You & You only. Haey Bholenath, whatever I get in return,

with inner joy and understanding, I accept it as your prasad. Other

than You my Divine whom shall I depend? Mean every single one of

these sentences, mere repeation doesn't help. The basis of bhakti

is complete surrender, nothing else. (BG 18:66)

 

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

 

A: It all depends on one's purity of heart, annihilation of ego, and

level of surrender. Again I would like to point sloka BG 18:66 -

sarva dharmaan parityajya... If your natural inclination is not

towards bhakti & you are simply an intellectual being, one can

attain realization faster through the means of gyaan/knowledge

yoga. So many time our intellect itself becomes an hurdle as we

can't seem to come out of applying intellectual logic and God is

beyond logic. If ones inclination is more towards selfless service,

one can attain realization through this means too. Please note,

these are all means and not the end itself. All means help create

an environment for one to reach the end but the end needs to be

realized beyond these means!

 

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and spiritual practices ?

 

A: Repeated study and spiritual practices help create an inner

environment for realization as these are nothing but means and not

the end. All means help one divert their attention from outside to

inside, increase awareness and bring one pointed concentration.

However, realization can happen beyond these means, at any moment,

not necessarily while reading scripture or during spiritual

practices! Those who go through this experience know what they have

understood, there is no doubt remain in their head, there is nothing

remain for them to know any more and there is nothing remain for

them to do anymore. All these happens only as a part of Divine

Will. I would highly recommend BG Chapter 2, read, contemplate,

implement, be peaceful, calm, still, may be in this stillness one

can recognize their eternal union with the Divine.

 

Hope this helps.

humble regards.

always at Thy Lotus Feet

 

Manjula Patel

-------------------------

Dear Sadhak,

How quick is quick ?

Right NOW.

Swamiji says-Right Now you can know HIM.

 

how long did it take for you to detach yourself

from the temporary / unreal?

It never happen in time, it happens with acceptance of exclusive

dependence on HIM only.I am God's and God is Mine. He is the Real,

and so called I is temporary.

and how did you know when you had done it?

No way to know it. No one will come with a flag in hands and say-

Hey look , I know myself now. When there is Light there is no

darkness, so when I know who am I, I just know who am I. And I stop

itendifying myself with what I am not.

 

When we have our own answer and we think that is the right answer we

donot accept any other answers. I know you have yr own answer, I

would highly appreciate if you can share that answer with all of

us...

 

With lots of Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

---------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

I hope the below text from Sadhak-Sanjivani (page 1603 in English and

page 939 in Hindi) will throw light in regards to what a sadhak should do.

-----

A sadhak should perform spiritual practice(worship, meditation etc)

certainly, because there is no other activity superior to it. But he

should not think that God will be realized by spiritual practice,

because by thinking so, he will be proud and pride is a stumbling

block to God-realization. He can be realized, by His grace. He cannot

be bought, by any means (spiritual practice). Spiritual practice roots

out evils of attachment and desire, for the world, which are obstacles

to God-realization. These obstacles have been created by the sadhak

himself. Therefore, when a sadhak wants to root out those evils, from

his heart, by God's grace, they are rooted out.

 

Generally sadhaks assume that God can be realized (through the

purification of mind), in the same way by making efforts, the worldly

objects are required. But in fact, it is not so, because even the most

virtuous actions such as penance etc., are transitory, and have a

beginning and an end. So how can the perishable bear an imperishable

fruit? Through penance and renunciation etc., the assumed affinity for

matter, (the world and body), is renounced. Having renounced this

assumed affinity, ever-attained God, Who pervades everywhere is

realized- memory for Him is aroused and recognition is gained.

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/SadhakSanjeevn\

i/main.html

 

Thanks,

Varun P. Paprunia

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Oye No Jee ! I meant only " conscience " and not " consciousness " !

Conscience is badly needed by all unlightened ones Jee! I knew you

will not grasp the term and hence put in bracket a clue. But still

not grasped ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

" Ashaswathmenam suviroodhmoolam " - How solid baseless illusion/maya

gets rooted within ! Dear Sadhaks !!

 

What " projection " ? Who " hunted " for that? It is all in the mind

only, no where else. Alas ! These minds and egos - they always bring

into existence what is never in existence ! Now explain relevance

thereof ! Quick !!

 

Never draw any conclusions as to who is enlightened and who is not?

Remember first ego has to be eliminated or purified or changed and

then " consciousness " referred by you comes into existence ! A one

percent shift in ego level is more than enough to show you the way !

 

Question you asked Sadhanaji must be first realised by you. How do

you know? " Projections of mind " are called " hallucinations " also

when they get into " dancing " rhythm of the sort you are in ! I hope

that rhythm has not yet manifested on the streets !

 

Did not I specifically say that world appears exactly as we are ! We

can perceive another only as exactly as we are ! Forgotten so fast.

No Child forgets that fast!

 

What was wrong when we were 13 ? Let us learn to retain childhood in

us ! There lies the bravery ! What sincerity? - " How quick is

quick " ? Is this sincerity? What have we done while maturing except

remembering as to how we were when 13?

 

What " gleaned " from this pious group ? Is what you wrote to Pratap

Bhaiyya all that was gleaned from this pious group? Satsanga is

a " chat " - is it ? Everyone needs a dictionary ! Which level of

sincerity is this? Mind is dancing within ! Mind, projecting only !

Projections ! Captivated by Maya ! No one else is dancing !! Only

the brain and ego are dancing - believe me on that ! Hold the child,

the non existent dance also will appear divine and natural.

 

" Bhakti is not for everybody and not particularly fast " ! Very good

Jee ! Alas ! Then for whom the " bhakti " is Jee !!

 

Let us remember being a student/sadhak/child as it helps more in

these issues. Let us learn to stay put. Here all are different. Let

us learn to gel.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Salutations to all

 

Adrien ! It is ok that one manifests into many. But your role is to

be positioned into the " many " and explain them from that view point.

If you are a shade better than that is the role which you must take.

Where is the sense in telling and keep telling " there is no man " !

How there is no man?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

 

 

Om Namah Shivay

 

Adrien Meyers ! If there is no man and no woman then to whom you are

saying " Love Avasa " ? To whom are you addressing messages? Why? One

needs to step down from a perceived/imaginary level, so as to be

of help to others. Sadhaks in this group are either men or women.

They are here to get wisdom.

 

Loomad Chand

---------------------------

 

Q3: OF COURSE NOT

John Forth

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

And God is necessary for that desire to exist.

The desire for God realisation does not come from man but from the

Divine itself.

The concept that one is a man disappears when this realisation takes

place. All is ALWAYS the Divine itself only, there is no man!

Love Avasa

 

Adrian Meyers

--------------------------

 

Shashikala

I guess i felt like you in my past, when i was 13.

loved all the jees, what a humble post! sorry, did i detect an ever

so tiny, insy winsy, slight hint of irritation?

I think the term you were hunting for was 'projection'?

You also seemed to have confounded conscience with consciousness

which of course are quite different.

ravi bakhshi

 

Sadhana

How quick is quick? how long did it take for you to detach yourself

from the temporary / unreal?

and how did you know when you had done it?

ravi bakhshi

 

Dear Pratap, thanks for your reply.

 

The example I gave of dancing etc in the street singing, causing

general annoyance to all, crying in a self delusional state

(labelled as Bhakti), or of saying how wretched one's state is, were

gleaned from this very discussion group. not ones i cooked up. The

vedantic viewpoint of non existence of ego in the light of self

knowledge is already well known. We can therefore assume that since

no one on this chat group is enlightened, therefore every one has a

fully functional ego due to the existance of maya.

 

The discussion topic is: Easy and Quick Means of God Realization.

Can Abhyaas (Practice) lead to God

 

The point i am making is that Bhakti is not for everybody, and not

particularly fast. Though factors such as desire, doubtlessly

supply an impetous towards a goal, in instances such as raman

maharishi, not desire, but sincerity of purpose in his action held

the key. And that is my point.

Whatever you do, be sincere.

Ravi bakhshi

 

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Raja Bhaiyya ! Tussi great ho Jee ! Oye Lovely Jee !! Bhaj le Shri

Raam !!

 

" Charo Ved dhandhor ke , ant kahoge Raam !

 

To Rajjab pahale kaho, itne hi main kaam "

 

Says Saint Rajjabji Maharaj:

 

After searching/studying all the Vedas etc , in the end you will

conclude and say " Raam Raam Raam " !! O Rajjab, then why don't you

say " Raam Raam Raam " now itself and be over with all efforts ?? !!

 

Tussi Great Ho Jee !!

 

Indeed , how much time one wastes in relying upon mind, taming it,

thinking ? What Guru ?? " Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum " ! Bhaj le Shri

Raam ! What efforts? Bhaj le Shri Raam ! What Deeds? Bhaj le Shri

Raam!! What meditation ? Bhaj le Shri Raam !!

 

" Tore dwaar khada Bhagwaan , bhakta bhar le re Jholi "

 

On your doorsteps(tongue) there is God standing ! Why don't you get

fulfilled ?

 

Jee !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Who is to look inside and who is to connect with the soul? Inside or

outside is Para Brahmam. Example: Sant Gnaneswar made a buffalow

speak which most of you know. Inside and outside that Para Brahmam

connected Gnaneswar and buffalow and the Brahmin Samag

What help another person can give in some one looking inside?

Clarity in enlightment.

Can eyes be borrowed? Eyes, heart, lungs are borrowed and

transplanted. Who keeps these organs alive, even after removing from

body - That Paramathuma.

 

What kind of Guru is necessary for a child to run into the lap of

his Mom? Instinct given by Bagavan until age 12. Any act of the

child upto 12 does not come in Paapa or Puniya. Ref: Vidhura Neethi-

Upanishads.

 

What kind of efforts can be needed to achieve that element which is

in everybody, at all times, in all places ?

 

A thurst in you? A desire in you? What else is necessary in

realising God except desire?

NISKAMA PREMA BAKTHI. Thrust can fail, desire can fail when tested

as in case of so many saints. NOT BAKTHI. A digambar (nude) sanyasin

speaking to Bhagavan Shiva asked Bhagavan , " What was the delay in

taking him to HIS abode " . Bhagavan said that the sanyasin had the

thought, " I am digamber free from desires and have only desire for

GOD " .

That " I' " Me " are the problem.

Regret If this is hurting someone.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

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PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Hari Shankarji. Who is to look inside and who is to connect with the

soul? What help another person can give in some one looking inside?

Can eyes be borrowed? What if some body is not able to find a Guru?

Is it essential ? If yes, then how God is " samam sarveshu

bhuteshu " ? What kind of Guru is necessary for a child to run into

the lap of his Mom? What kind of efforts can be needed to achieve

that element which is in everybody, at all times, in all places ?

Can any Guru cause a hunger in you? A thurst in you? A desire in

you? What else is necessary in realising God except desire?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Priy Sadhak ji,

X Y Z ko chhoro jee. Ram Ram bolo jee.

" Leave X, Y, Z Jee. Simply say Ram Ram Jee "

 

" Madhuram Madhuram madhuraadhipate Madhuram Madhuram "

 

" Everything about the ruler of Sweetness and delight is Sweet and

Delightful. "

 

Rama shri rama,

Rama shree Rama,

This is what Swamiji kept chanting.

Lovely jee

Ram Ram Jee.

Raja Gurdasani

------------------------------

 

To attain God you have to look within yourself and meditate to

connect with the soul. It is best to find a Guru who will show you

the way. Not everyone is a Buddha to get enlightenment through

meditation on his own.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

You are right, Pratapji ! This time , certainly , on the fact

that " mind recalls " ! Believe me- this creature can never act

in " present " ! How can an element which is " non existent " (BG 2:16)

can ever act in " existence " . (present) ???

 

Mind can only travel in " non existence " - in future or in past -

never in " present " !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Sadhanaji ! You are absolutely right, Jee . One can't grasp the

reality ( sat) by taking shelter of mind (of asat), shelter of that

element which is ever changing/never stagnant !

 

It is a law that unless you are " x " yourself, you just can't

perceive " x " in another !! An infallible law ! A little known law

but still an accurate law, Jee !

 

We all must appreciate that we all felt like him, Ravi Jee, in the

past. It is only a matter of positioning/ timing and the control of

ever changing mood over us, or our control over that creature -

mind/intellect/ego etc- reacting at an " x " time say in a " y " or " z "

manner- but imparting us a feeling of the type which a mirror in

our daily routine life imparts( 100 percent opposite , something

actually existing in us but appearing to us as if it is existing in

another) !! Yes Jee ! Yes !! Come On ! (Argue , here Jee , if there

is left something to argue upon ! Bravery lies here !)

 

What else? Fact however is that " Self " is the key ! " Conscience " is

the key-(Ever heard this term Jee?) !! What never changes is the

answer !!! Alas- how much time " simplicity " can take to arrive, once

we are in grip of that machine, called mind , which has 270 million

neurons functioning electronically at any given time ?? Are not even

270 aeons too little to understand- no as per me- but yes as per the

slave of that machine/creature - Jee ?? Bolo Jee !!

 

Raam ! Raam!! Raam !!!

 

" Disorder " is the order of the day not the poor " order " - When

mind/ego/intellect are on driver's seat ! Poor " Self " Jee ( Wonder,

Jee , what is that term ? Mind/ego/intellect/body that's all - says

Raviji, Jee- Naturally) !!

 

Anyway ! This is how the world, the challenge, our role as sadhak

is !!! We must acquit ourselves suitably!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I am making some observations on Mike Keenorji's observations on

right mind set for giant spiritual step and the role of practice to

gain higher awareness, in reference to Sadhaka post " what does it

mean to know one's self " by Swamiji. (I think that's the reference).

At the outset I want to tell, I am deeply touched by his recent

posts, particularly the one(in my words) where one feels suddenly

out of no where, oneness with everything around, and one disppears

as though. Nothing but Divinity, Love without and within! I can

relate to it!

 

This kind of experience leaves you worldless at the moment and mind

just recalls afterward. Mind cannot be present when experiencing is

happening in the timeless zone, but can only recall as after-

thoughts.

This kind of experiencing happens generally in the natural settings,

in the vastness of sky like open space. Consciousness seems to

liberate from petty little things of this world and embrasses Itself

with Itself, Its fullness-Bliss! It feels its infinitude!

Elements of mysticism, or sufi like vision flows through the heart

as echoed in Mike's words! Nothing matters anymore!

When one burns with desire to know one's true being, one sees things

differently than before! Everything reminds one of Beloved, face of

God.

Isn't this the mind-set of a Bhakta for Bhagwan, or Gyani for TRUTH

or Karma-Yogi for service? Isn't this the Higher Awareness inviting

Itself in?

Namaskar..

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhak,

You(sadhak Raviji) have given examples of such cases who renounce

the world in great devotion. But our scriptures are filled with

examples of people who were realised but stay in the world and

performed their duties. Example of Raja Janak(father of SitaMa) is

well known.

Our God took human forms to set examples how to lead wonderful

worldly life while remaining detached from inside.Can we learn that

from Lord Rama's and Krishna's life ? Krishna said in Gitaji that we

need to live in the world like lotus flower lives in the water.

 

One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the

results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by worldy actions, as

the lotus leaf is untouched by water.GItaji Ch5:10

We just need to detach our selves from the temporary/unreal and

surrender to HIM. Thats the only quickest way/sadhna I know .

 

With lots of love,

A sadhika

Sadhana Karigar

---------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This addresses the issues raised by Ravi Bakhshiji.

In my understanding, burning desire has nothing to do with dancing

or not dancing in the street nor it means shedding out

responsibility to family. It means to have intense desire for Truth

or God, to be ready to put one's life on the line if it came to

that. At this stage Sadhaka has already discovered that no personal

desires for objects can ever fulfill one's empty self from his/her

own experience. Thus burning desire comes from God or Truth, being

impersonal as if to liberate from false limitations/bondage/beliefs

rooted in individality. Such pursuits of God may be unique or like

that of Mirabai or Ramkrishna without being any one of them.

Idea of giving up Ego is useless, because it doesn't even exist in

the first place! To see that which is false (sense of " me " ) as such

without a shadow of doubt is enough and it gets droppedon on its

own.

Ego is a strong deep rooted conditioning from childhood onward

resulting in the belief as separate individual-me. Upon

questioning " me " , it will be found to be bundle of desires, fears,

likes and dislikes, pleasures/pains acting/taken as " me "

unconsciously. What is hard is to see is ego in this way that keeps

it going through the life. Ego on the part of saints is

functional/label so when called by names they can answer. Saints and

Sages are Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

In all humility, I can say this understanding makes one remain calm

even in a situations like a crowded train with loud singing going

on. Rather than resisting the noise or any adversity for that

matter, such situations will remind him/her God or to do meditation.

Namaskar....

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

---------------------------

Hari Om

 

Brother Mike ! What is at the alter of your heart is your own. That

is never failing. No rituals, activity, austerity, karma can reach

Him for He is higher than all of them. You can reach Him only by

Love ! You can reach Him by only " feeling " Him to be your " beloved " -

that is " mineness " with Him. Provide that mineness an exclusivity,

as the " only who is mine " - rest all is automatic. Summit is not far.

 

It is a law that Love generates out of mineness only. Love increases

multifold as mineness attains exclusivity- naturally, effortlessly,

ceaselessly- 24x7 !!

 

As you will notice at the end of that surprise short story referred

for deliberations of Sadhaks by Michael Hagen - the first step is 'I

am no body' and second step is 'relinquishing the shelter of

rational mind'. You are through that. Provide finality to the

thrill of " Riding the tiger " - by

riding 'fearlessly', 'doubtlessly', 'grieflessly' and " worrylessly'

and by never getting down or by never thinking as to what if you

have to get down ! That completes the 'surrender' !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

---------------------------

 

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PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to message of Shirinji ! Right you are ! But first you

should

establish " mineness " with Paramatma.. Naam Japa thereafter ONLY

becomes " super

express " . Nevertheless, it is always a great karma !

 

" HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI, TULSI TAJI KUSAMAAJ "

 

First " become " of God and then chant His name and renounce evil

company.

 

Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was a great supporter of " Naam Japa " (

chanting

God's name continuously/repeatedly ) - but He invariably insisted

more on

" mineness " with Him. Once you have " become " of God- every activity

is " for Him "

only. I ask you a question. A married traditional Indian Lady never

utters the

name of her husband ! Agreed? Is she not of her Hubby ? ( Here, I am

not

discouraging " naam japa " - believe me - I am rather emphasising

on " mineness " -

both me and my Beloved Wife do naam japa together, quite often ).

You " become "

of Him first, then if you do naam japa- you are through- faster than

when you

merely do naam japa !

 

Gita too insists for " mineness " , so do all great Saints and realised

souls. When

you have established mineness - exclusive mineness- with Him, even

if you are

not able to do naam japa for some time, you are still worshipping

Him through

your deeds. Bhajan then is automatic.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

---------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

I just thought I would air the subject, of austerities, as I have

read a lot

from Sadhaks on various practices. 'Mindset', I don't have a better

word for the

removal of the 'Barrier'.

 

You know Vyasji, I do not consider this body as mine, to falsely

believe I am this body, since 'I' have existed for countless

lifetimes. Thus the apparent 'I' is constant, but the mind body ego

cannot be. Therefor the soul has been embodied many times.(Without

doubt).

 

You see I never practiced any form of ritual, worship, or yoga , I

just wanted the truth without reservation.

Yes I was/am a meditator, I was drawn to it without conscious

thought.

 

Sometimes one has to,(using a martial arts term), 'Ride the Tiger',

i.e. let Bahgwan take the reins. One has to shut down the rational

mind, and trust implicitly in the Divine outcome.

I think the only worship I have is for the 'Divine Beloved', at the

alter of my heart.

I trust some will understand what is implicit in the last paragraph.

 

With Respect and Divine Love.

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------------

 

Intense desire is not for everyone. I don't want to walk about

dancing and chanting the name of god etc... i'm sorry but i think i

have better things to do with my time. We are not all born as

mirabais and neither would our families appreciate our shedding of

responsibility whilst we busy ourselves hysterically crying out for

love & mercy of god .Oh! God Where are you? I am such a helpless lame

dirty person, save me. Even Rama krishna was taken to be a mad man

by many but then we are not all Ramkrishna paramhansas.

 

It is the drive of the ego that makes up take up religious practices

in the first place so ideas about giving up the ego are totally

useless. In fact mira , ramakrishna etc did not have to give up

their ego they just were themselves and precisely because their egos

were a bit dysfunctional that they were recognised as mad. Do you

want to be known as mad? I dont know but that could well be the

point. or the ego which dictates your every thought including

conceptions of mine is suddenly going to lose that sense of

possession? Ego will relinquish possessions in full knoweledge of

that fact that what it is going to acheive in return is worth more

and what is worth more than being known as a selfless sadhu? a saint,

mahatma? man of god?

 

I remember being in this train years ago, sitting opposite a young

lady who was busy chanting her Hari Krishna. I told her off when we

got off. I told her that her spiritual expression did not need to be

in the face of others giving us all a headache. You want to do it do

it in your head, don't make a show of it!

 

What i am saying is that there are a variety of methods and none is

the ultimate way. If i was to sit down crying and chanting i would

be shown the front door to my own house very soon with a couple of

letters from the solicitor to follow. So those that advocate what is

in the previous posts obviously live in a totally nonrealistic

environment or have scant regards for the legitimate feelings of

others. Too busy buttering their own egos.

 

Sitting quietly watch your breathing

 

Now what could be easier than that?

 

Ravi Bakhshi

 

--------------------------------

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to Mike's observations regarding message of Swamiji on

austerities vis a vis mineness of Jeeva with Paramatma.

 

Mike ! The biggest fault in a " positive " sadhan is that it pre

supposes your connection with body and with ego. Why would you like

to control your mind unless you consider it to be " mine " ? How can

you perform austerities unless you are connected with your body?

The real obstacle is " mineness " with the ever changing world, body,

nature, inert - however you call that ! We clean every day our

house, but next day again need to clean arises. Because the house is

not closed. When you consider mind/body etc to be " mine " - you are

impure at the beginning itself. Now whatever austerities you

perform, meditation you do, naam japa you do , penances you perform

will delay you, because the main and first impurity of " mineness "

has not been addressed!

 

Once you keep " mineness " with body/mind/world etc and so long you

keep, you are not " renouncing/serving " , you are enjoying/consuming.

You are not " disconnecting " , you are " connecting " ! You are

not " doing " for others, you are doing for yourself. Since you are

doing say naam japa, meditation, austerities considering " mind/body

etc " to be " mine " , hence you are doing mere " karmas " ( they have not

become " akarmas " within the meaning of Gita) . You should be ready

then to reap the results of " karmas " . The Bondage is not loosened.

The noose has tightened.

 

Hence Swamiji recommends the easy route.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

---------------------------

Namaskar! a) Part Enlightenment Let me at the beginning tell you

that the easiest way to realise God , Nirvana or enlightenment in

this Kal Yug, in fact no more rites and ritual, only sincere naam

jap clears the way for total moksha if done sincerely, with lots of

longing for God, as if He is your beloved, that much yearning

needed, plus with good thoughts, words and deeds, all in harmony with

each other. Mainly do naam japp of Lord Krishna, when tongue tired,

capture His form in your mind. Say Krishna jap softly throughout

day, till it becomes as natural as the process of breathing and

Lord gets Fixed with your incoming and outgoing breadth.My dear

Friend realise first that you are Atma the eternal soul and linked

to your source Parmatma (God Head) Like you all souls are linked to

this source. This could come after lot of dedication, after removing

a lot of our internal personality defects like ego, anger, greed and

violence even in thought. Every morning surrender all deeds to God.

Look everything electrical has power similarly all souls connected

to Power God and none is greater or smaller by physical size,

wealth, nationality etc. The pauper and rich man are all equal

recipients to God's grace. If you keep your mobile connection to God

swtiched off by getting totally snared in sense objects and lobha,

moha then obviously you cannot recceive air waves of His divine

grace, which is showered equally on all. Do your best and surrender

in totality, thought, word, deed and result are all his. He is doer

not the physical self by your name, doership prevents reaching

enlgihtnment stage. b) Annubhtutis are very much given by merciful

Lord. Annubhutis given to persons to strengthen their faith in God

and more intense talamal (yearning) to want God desperately.

Annubhutis are given to seekers, in fact many of the group self

belongs have experienced one time or other, which we feel is an

indication we are on the right path. It's like indication, you have

passed your terminals, now go ahead and learn the full portion and

with more concentration for the final school leaving exam (final

exam from life to beyond, depending upon our talmal to reach God,

and if moha, lobha krodh conquered to a very great extent. We have

to show anger to discipline but zero inward anger.Anubhutis given to

sick and dying folks that do not worry I am around the corner, your

eternal friend of all life times , beyond the funeral pyre where

worldly relatives leave you. Gratitude at holy charan of Gurdev, who

is doer, and self is merely his instrument and nothing more.

 

Sadhika Shirin C.

-------------------------

Hari Om

 

That we shall realise Paramatma after purification of mental

equipment- this is hope for the future! The element is in past,

present and future as well as is beyond them. The vedanta

methodology of realising God is very time consuming. There first

Viveka (conscience), Vairagya (dispassion), Samadhi (absorption),

Shatsampati (six properties) and Mumuksha (desire) -

this " chatushtay " has to be performed. Then Shravan, Manan and

Nididhyasan - these 3 have to be done. Then there is purification

process. Then there seedful samadhi. Upto here you are

using/associated/connected with Nature, with " inert " ! Upon total

disconnection with inert, there is " seedless " samadhi. Then you

realise God! This is the methodology of God Realisation through use

of mind/body/intellect !

 

Swamiji says that this process is not necessary at all. You are

getting delayed because of lack of intense desire. The element is as

it is. Your eye is not on that. Just as we see by our eyes any

object. But before we see the object, in fact we see the light

first. Under light only that object is visible. But our eye is on

the object not on the light! Hence we notice object first and not

light!

 

In God Realisation there is no need of wait for future. Future is

warranted for that thing which is away, which requires

action/efforts, where we have to make some changes! But element

called God is ever present completely. To realise that where is the

question of future? It exists in all places, times, things, states,

circumstances, etc. All are eligible and capable of realising Him.

It is indivisible existence. Where then is the need of any

time/effort/action/eligibilty/power/control/capacity? What can be

pre requisites for such an element?

 

Only desire is needed. Burning desire!! Only a glance at presence of

light is needed, under which light objects are visible !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading [sadhaka] What does it mean by 'To know One's Self'? (Oct

25, 2008) part 1.

 

I wrote a comment to Sadhaka inserted below:

'I am glad you placed this post in at this time.

As in a comment I made, I mentioned that Swamiji had practiced

austerities, and I realize that to take that small but 'giant'

spiritual step one needs the right mind set. I might ask Gita-talk to

reflect on this.

As always,.....' Implicit in that comment, is it maybe the failure

or slowness of a particular bona fide process, that can bring one to

that point of having to make that final step by higher awareness,

but does one need to practice something or not to gain this higher

awareness,(for want of a better way of putting it). With Respect and

Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

 

Yes Mikeji, your observations of Swamiji are absolutely correct.

Swamiji has himself said that many austerities he has done to

experience the truth. Please read on from Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu page

700-701, a recent sadhak daily message also addressed the three easy

paths - 1) to know one's self (Jnana yog), 2) to not do anything

for one's self (Karma Yog), or 3) to attain Paramatma (Bhakti Yog).

All three paths are very easy. Swamiji has encouraged us to try it

once. One can always revert to the longer path of spiritual

practices. Attached below are portions of the daily sadhak

message, Thank you, Varun Paprunia

 

 

From " Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu " in Hindi page 700-701

 

To know one's self means - like you have worn clothes, then

are you the clothes? No. Are you the skin? No. Are you the flesh?

No. Are you blood? No. Are you blood vessels? No. Stomach is filled

with mucus, excertion and all other impurities. Are you that? No.

Are you intestines? No. All this, I am not. After accepting it

as 'I am not this', then never consider it as 'I am', then you will

know yourself. It is so easy ! After spitting, do not lick. To

know one's self, to not do anything for one's self, or to attain

Paramatma - these three paths are very easy. Which ever path you

want to take, it is your wish.

 

Look, I will say one thing. This thing being said is a bit

egoistical, but I am not saying it with an egoistical attitude. I

have discovered and I am still discovering. Now what is that

thing ? That one attains liberation/salvation easily and

immediately. According to the path prescribed by scriptures, after

hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation

(Nidhidhyasan), Meditation (Dhyan), State of Absolute Nothingness

(Savikalp and Nirvikalp samadhi) and Consciously dropping the Mind

(Sabeej Samadhi) and rooting out all forms of duality (Nirbeej

Samadhi) then one attains realization / liberation / redemption. I

have learned this scriptural prescription. I have given

considerable thought to it, as well. And have also done

considerable amount of - Shravan, Manan, Nidhidhyasan, Dhyan. But

the point is only this much - 'I am not this'. For such a simple

thing, why to dig a mountain ?

 

I am saying a very simple and clear thing. ....I am only telling you

that thing by which you can realize the truth as immediately as

possible. If you place barriers that how will it happen so quickly,

it did not happen to XYZ that quickly, then how will it happen to

me? I am telling you that try and see for yourself. If you are in no

hurry, then take the longer route. I am not saying 'No' or objecting

to it. Do as I say. If it happens immediately, then you are in

profit, else the longer route is always open for you. What is the

roadblock for you? If you do according to what I say, you will also

get assistance for the longer path or you will not need it. If you

ask me there would be no need to take the longer path. Look, this

thing doesn't come easily. People are not aware of this. Even I

myself didn't know of it. Without any ability, knowledge,

meditation, samadhi etc. attaining that state where nothing is to be

done, known and acquire (gain). I was not aware of it. When I didn't

know, I practiced various control disciplines, stayed in solitude,

stopped meeting people. You will be surprised to know that I ate

rotis (indian bread) by weighing them. To place limits on myself,

both vegetable and roti were weighed and eaten, so that I may not

eat more. To sleep only these many hours, not to sleep more than

that. To keep very few things with myself. Never to say to anyone

that 'I don't have this thing' - not to say this to anyone. I had

lived in this manner for a number of years. I underwent many

hardships, if I tell you these, you will be surprised. .......I have

tried all those things. That is also one way, but a long way.

Whatever spiritual practices (saadhan) you have done, it won't go

waste, but it will take a lot of time.......

 

From " Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu " in Hindi page 700-701 by Swami

Ramsukhdasji.

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

-Shree Hari-

 

Michael,

I agree with you regarding Swamiji. When I read his posts , it is as

if he has looked into my soul, and yet he is no longer in body. The

God realized, are beyond, what we consider the rules of logic, (for

want of a better expression).

For myself, I can say, I do not have knowledge of the Vedas, I am

not steeped in the traditions of India, so I am so grateful that I

have (somehow) found this site. I have no doubt in my mind that

India is the ancient wellspring of the science of Yoga.

Through the corridors of time this great and holy tradition has found

its way into many religions.

 

Some of the comments as you say are crisp, others are somewhat

esoteric, at least from my perspective, to others they may be crystal

clear.

 

I find that chapters 6 and 12 in Gitaji informative regarding the

original questions.

 

I also observed something interesting; my understanding is Swamiji

practiced certain austerities in his desire to be at one with the

Divine. Then he found a simple way. He is Gods, God is his. (Does

that sound familiar?).

Here is the point. Swamiji's, desire for the Beloved was deep and

burning, only Bhagwan, and the good Swami understood the journey he

had taken that brought him to the door that was thinner than a micron

to Swamiji, lighter than a feather for him to push open.

But to many souls it is a hundred tonne slab, the sum weight of the

illusions of ignorance.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

Dear All Sadhaks,

 

I am thankful for all the advice given to me on my observations.

However, it is clear that the road to Salvation for some seems to be

different from my convictions. You are most welcome to practice what

you are preaching and realise God " Quickly " . The fact that such a

discussion has been going on for such a long time, there is

certainly something missing, which is holding you from realising.

 

I believe in doing rather than only talking.

 

A.H.Dalmia

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Swamiji emphasized asking, querying, cross-examining, debating, and

more... so that concepts would become absolutely clear, and one can

get beyond. After all Arjuna also was doing the same before Shri

Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

 

Therefore Dalmiaji, we appreciate your insights to further clarify

for all sadhaks. We look forward to hearing from all sadhaks on

specific issues that are unclear, and need further examination /

clarification, or those that you disagree with. Please elaborate

specifics. Let us build on what others have already said (if

possible).

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

----------------------------

 

Salutations to this Divine Forum

 

Bravo ! Here is Hari Mohan making confident statement that All are

God. Though I am not, but I should believe that I can be. Mr Hari

can you briefly state as to what right conduct you want that must be

in a human being to become God ? That should help us all. What are

the good deeds which lead you to become God yourself. Please

enlighten.

 

With Love to all,

 

Luca Brasi

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

More and more I read writings of Swami Ramsukhdas, more and more

pleasure I get. Yes, it is not an easy task to find even a

semblance of untruth in his expressions. While I love spending time

in reading, but I feel that if Moderators of this site are really

serious and about sharing the spiritual bliss of the eastern world,

then stricter adherence to guidelines is needed for shorter/crisper

replies and not wordy and endless expressions. I seem to loose sight

of the main points by the end of my reading. Time is precious for

all.

 

Overall I admire and am inspired my many in this group. Mike, I am

inspired the most by you. There is truth living in the east wisdom -

yes!.

 

Michael Hagen

 

-----------------------------

Jai Kali

 

I feel Dalmia should be heard for what he says is a common belief

shared my many. Just like straightening the curly tail of dog is

impossible, so it is not possible to discipline the ever changing

mind ! Do you mean that aspirant with good mind can reach God and

aspirant with a bad mind cannot? Hasn't it been said that no two

minds are the same? If God is available to all, then where is the

need of the mind there? If mind is a machine then you are the

operator. If mind is operator than you are the machine.

The choice is yours.

 

Sarphod Tabalchi

 

-------------------------

What is not God? We ourselves are Gods. It is up to us to realise

our divine qualities through good deeds and meditation.

 

hari shanker deo

-------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Ram-Ram,

Today while I was listening Swamiji's Pravachan of 10th January 1991

(Nitya yoga), I got the best answer to this question. Its my humble

request to the questioner and all of us, please listen to it. I

think these questions arise because we don't listen to Swamiji's

pravachans. If we do so regularly, there won't we any question left

unanswered.

Ashok Goenka

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Thank you Ashokji,

Every lecture in Hindi by Swamiji since 1991 is on the website. It

is a gold mine !!! So very precious, that it is yet to be

discovered by the world. There is so much in this treasure chest,

that we will never run out of listening to new lectures every day in

this lifetime. More than 15,000 hours of lectures, all available

online. All free. The best things in the world are for free ...

think about it !!! Here is the link to the discourses -

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/

 

Let us know what you discovered after listening!

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

I must remind Mr. Dalmia, Swamiji, has written in Sadhak Sanjivani

preface that according to Gitaji, controlling mana (mind) or

whatever U call it Is NOT IMPORTANT AS COMPARED TO APANAPAN

(relationship, mineness) WITH GOD. WHICH OF THE GOPI DID ABHYAAS

(practice, repeated study) TO ATTAIN KRISHNA?

 

PREM GALI ATI SAAKRI (NARROW), YA MEIN DO NA SAMAYA,

YA TO HARI BHAJAN KAR YA FIR VISHAYA KAMAI.

 

The path of love is extremely narrow, in this two cannot fit

Either worship Hari, or engage in worldly sense enjoyments

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani.

 

---------------------------

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

1) Do all your duties, stay amidst family, but surrender anything

and everything to Paramathuma with calm mind knowing that ALL is HIS

Leelas. Ex: Hamuman was offered many things by Sri Rama on

Pattabisek day. Even a mala presented Hamuman tested to see if Rama

was in it. Rest you sadaks know. Sri Vishnu appeared to Vaishavite

Alwar and asked the saint, " What if I (Bagavan) put you into hell " .

Saint sais it was HIS will. This is simplest form of Bakthi If one

gets a trouble and looses a little faith then it is not termed as

Bakthi. Bagavan in BG said, " Aaniya Chinthayayome--- " . In Bakthi

there is 3 types. Kamiyartha Bakthi--Sadana Bakthi--Niskama Prema

Bakthi. 1st one seeking God for benifits. 2cd one seeking God for

Mukthi. 3rd one seeking God for nothing but for unconditional love.

 

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

2) By totally silencing the mind.

 

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and spiritual practices ?

3) Repeated study means, what studied once unable to follow, what

spritual practice done does not eliminate 6 bad Gunas (Kama, Krodha,

Madha etc) leads to limitless time to realization. Study or spritual

practice depends on Shardha (determination/Vairangiyam)

 

But for all the 3 Bagavan grace required. Examples: When Sorpanaka

Ravana sister met Sri rama in forest spoke of her family members.

She said Vibushan is Dharmathuma not suitable to our family. Sri

Rama made sankalpa that HE should see Vibushan

Kuchela was in thoughts of Sri Krishna and often tells his wife

about Krishna. At one time Sri Krishna tought how is HIS friend

Kuchela. Then it struck the idea to Kuchla/his wife to Visit

Krishna. In both the cases they were Dharmathumas. GOD loves

Dharmathumas. But defenition about Dharmathumas is lengthy.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Raam Raam Raam

 

Problem with Mr Dalmia is that he is stuck like a needle of

gramophone on " mind " . He started this when " karan nirapeksha

sadhan " of Swamiji was deliberated by sadhaks. Since then his mind

is not allowing him to appreciate dozens of reasons which have been

in different styles, manners presented by various sadhaks.

Today's sadhak message also presents him the truth . Unfortunately

he is not able to distinguish between the " mineness and then naam

japa " and mere " abhyaas " . Funny arguments, even reflection of

hatred, for fellow sadhaks and comments about a Saint as rare as

Swamiji can then be only termed as " naturally arising " out of a

stuck, jammed intellect/mind set. My humble advice as a sadhak

myself is that so long as one doesnot relinquish shelter of ever

changing mind/intellect/ego , one genuinely will not be able to

determine even regarding God Realisation - as Swamiji 's message in

today's sadhak posting and as Mira Dassji's last posting reflects..

There has to be a limit of stressing on any aspect. Mr Dalmia- your

reference of Kabir Doha, or what Bhaiji told once regarding mind

according to you, or what is dhatu " bhaj " can be countered by

same Kabeer's dozen other Dohas, and same Bhaiji's ( Bhaiji- Revered

Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) elaboratel writings. Whenever you quote

other sadhaks please make certain that you do not deliberately omit

the context.

 

One sadhak earlier stated throw the mind into dust bin, please try

to do so, and the mind will settle, it will concentrate better. Your

all " ananya chetah " , " satatam " etc will automatically fall in place

once you establish " mineness " with God. Mineness with God has such

immense power that even if you thereafter do worldly duties for 24

hours a day, it will be considered as Bhajan (worship and devotion

of God).

 

Let us pray to Paramatma so that " sadbuddhi " continues to dawn and

manifest.

 

Pranaam,

Beenani S

---------------------------

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Jee Jee Shashikalajee's postings gives momentum to the

deliberations. She is not like a parrot keep uttering same words -

Desire, 3 yogas, time needed and that is all. She brings new

practical thoughts.

 

We are happy with whatever we are reading from Swamiji, Vyasji,

Mike, Sarvottamji, Mira Dasji, Papruniaji, Satyanarainji and dozens

like them. Hari Mohan Deoji , Rakshitaji all are clear headed. I

benefit immensely.. We( I and I am sure many like me), are able to

understand and appreciate their views. What is then the problem? Let

us have this divine Satsanga.

 

Many of you do not know what benefits I have got by implementing some

suggestions of Jee Jee Shashikalaji, Sarvottamji, Mike, Rajendraji

and Vyasji. Such an elite club in such terrible times- God's Grace

is there on this web site, no doubt.

 

Sadhaks - please follow Swamiji, you will benefit immensely. Follow

Swamiji. Why blindly apply your mind and logic. Who says no ? If you

don't have mind, then go blindly. But we all have minds, Jee ! Isn't

it Jee Jee ?

 

M M Purohit

----------------------------

Jai Bajrang Bali

 

Dalmiaji Maharaj ! Aap Dhanya Hai ( Hats off to you). Aapka dimaag

dhanya hai (Hats off to your mind). There is one Marwaari Idiom (

Dalmiaji is

from Rajasthan, India, hence Idiom of that language) " AANDHE BINA

AWADE NAHIN

AUR ANDHO DEETHO SUHAVE NAHIN " - You cannot remain without a blind

person, and

you like like a blind person.

 

Only Lord Hanumaan can impart wisdom in you. Why you are not able to

appreciate simple facts as presented by Swamiji, Mira Dass, Jee Jee,

Vyasji,

Sarvottamji, Rajaji ? Why ??? Because your mind has enslavened

your " self "

totally ! Bitter fact but true.

 

Silver lining is that Dalmiaji can not live without Gita Talk group

that is sure. We love to hear from you no matter what. Oh God - Hats

off to you

and hats off to your creation.

 

Chesta Vinod

-------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

When Bhagvan's name recitation, chanting, prayer all come under

discipline and practice, however they are superior to other

practices. As in

abhyaas (practice) there is dependency on your mind/body to do,

where as in name

recitation, chanting, prayer there is dependency on God. When you

call out to

God " Hey Naath ! Hey mere Naath ! it is far more powerful than

practices

(abhyaas). Practices (abhyaas) are through self-effort, but in

calling out, work

is done through the grace of God. You seem to be directed towards

mostly

spiritual practices, as those are your sanskars / tendencies.

Therefore if you engage in name recitation, chanting, prayer etc. it

will be

very beneficial.

Ramchandra

 

HINDI

Bhagvan ka jap , kirtan, prathna , bhi abhyas ke antragat aate hein

tathapi ye abhyas se tez hein karan ki abhyas mein apna sahara

rahta hein per jap , prathna , aadi mein bhagvan ka sahara rahta hein

Hey nath ! Hey mere nath ! Yeh pukar abhyas se tez hein abhyas se

Apne udyog se kam ho ta hein per pukar mein bhagvan ki kirpa se kam

ho ta hein. Aap abhi abhyas ke rajya mein bhethe hu- a hein

Aapke sanskar abhyas ke hein isliye aap name jap, kirtan,prathna,

 

Mein lag ja vo tho aapko bhahut labh hoga

[ramchandra]

 

--------------------------

Jai siya ram

ram hi ram

priy sadhak parivaar of shashikalajee jee jee I really admire your

thoughts specially for Swamiji.

I can't tell how lucky was I to have met such a divine angel

swamiji. I can't say in words. Only that such angels visit this

planet to deliver Gods bhavas (inner sentiments) to sadhaks.

Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani is the Ultimate

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

 

I have been pondering over this subject for many days now. Outcome

of these ponderings are recorded below

 

What is the concept of " Quick " in god realisation? We have been

taking birth after birth since time immemorial (84 lakh yonis).

Considering that as a time frame, if we can realise God during this

birth, I think this is very " Quick " .

 

What is the " Value " of god realisation? There is nothing in the

whole 'Brahmand' (Universe) that can even remotely compare with

the " value " of God realisation. If such an invaluable thing can be

got in our current birth, I think this is very " Quick " .

 

Do we really realise how valuable is god realisation? If we do, why

do we even need to ask the question how quickly we can realise god.

Just to take an example of " Air " . It is very valuable but we realise

it's real value If we don't breath for one minute.Otherwise, we take

it for granted and give it no importance. Similarly, if we can get

god for free, will we appreciate how valuable is God realisation.

The answer is " No " .

 

In the context of stilling the mind, Gitaji clearly says " Abhyasen

tu Kontaiya Vairagen cha Grihyate " (8:35). People who do not want to

labour to tame the mind, simply dismiss it by saying that this is

the only place (1 shloka) where God has advised stilling the mind.

They go to the extent of saying

 

'Millions and trillions have tried to control mind in the past,

Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in straightening out this curly tail of

dog-called

" mind " .'

 

How can a person know about these millions and trillions. This is

because Gitaji

in almost all the chapters (though using different words

like " Ananya Cheta " ,

" Tasmat Sarveshu Kaleshu Mamansmar " , " Manmana Bhav " and so on which

lead to the

same concept), Bhagwatji, Manasji and so many great saints keep on

repeating

this over and over again.

Mind has to be tamed whatever method and time it takes. Mind can be

tamed and has been tamed by the great saints (I do not, will not and

can not at all share the views of many sadhaks expressed against the

view borrowed by me from the scriptures and saints as above).

Ofcourse, who do not agree with this view, are fully entitled to try

the methods expressed by so many other sadhaks and see how quickly

they succeed in their goal.

 

I would like to end by reiterating what Sant Kabeer said

 

" Karat karat abhyas ke jad mati hot sujan, Rasri awat jat the sil

par parat nisan "

 

Abhyas, abhyas and more abhyas with Vairagya, vairagya and more

vairagya. With this abhyas and vairagya add only the desire to

realise god. This is a sure shot method, whatever time it takes.

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji was asked this question and his exact response is stated

below. Clearly he has communicated in this response the following

key points, some already conveyed by other sadhaks:

 

Ease of realization is from:

 

- our inner sentiments, sincere desire / aim / intense quest for

realization

- respecting our discrimination (vivek) between real and perishable

 

Greatest obstacles in realization are:

 

- our incorrect belief that God Realization is process oriented

(i.e. through spiritual practices / abhyaas).

- trapped in worldly enjoyment (body - mind consciousness),

preventing turning

towards God

 

Let us therefore awaken this inner quest and discrimination (vivek)

once and for all !

 

Please read his response and those who have doubts, ask questions

specific to Swamiji's response.

 

Question: If Realization of the Supreme Consciousness is so easy

that simply by having our attention and focus on IT, realization is

possible, then what are the obstacles that are preventing this from

happening ?

 

Swamiji: Believing that the process of attainment of worldly

objects, and the attainment of that Supreme Consciousness is a very

similar, such a belief, is a great obstacle in God Realization.

Worldly attainments are by doing something, but God Realization is

not by doing something, rather it is through a sentiment, an inner

expression, inner illumination. Worldly objects have to be created /

assembled, they have to be given a birth, they have to be obtained

from somewhere, for it one has to go somewhere; but God does not

have to be assembled, does not have to be created, does not have to

be brought from somewhere, and for IT one does not need to go

anywhere. That Supreme Consciousness is present as-IS, in all

Countries, all timeframes, all things, all individuals, all

situations, all circumstances, all the different states of being,

etc. We do not have a sincere and intense quest, a desire for it's

attainment. We are believing ourself to be one with this body and

engaging in worldly enjoyments.

 

Just like a fish caught in a net, cannot proceed any further,

similarly beings trapped in worldly pleasures and enjoyment, can

never turn towards God. Not only that, those who are attracted and

attached to worldly enjoyments, cannot even make a firm

determination to turn towards God.

 

Indulging in worldly enjoyments, is paying disrespect to our

discrimination. If we gave weight to our understanding, then we will

be unable to engage and enjoy worldly pleasures. Because it is only

by considering the being or objects enjoyed as stable and permanent

that we are able to enjoy these objects. Without considering them

stable and permanent (here to stay), one simply cannot indulge in

worldly pleasures.

 

This body and this world are constantly changing, it does not remain

stable even for a moment. On having this understanding, man can

never engage in worldly enjoyment. This is because once this

discrimination has been awakened, our state will no longer be in

this body, rather is will remain in the " Self " . Therefore we must

give great importance to our discrimination.

 

Meera Das

Ram Ram

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Question 1: Sadhak from the very beginning have been doing so

Question 2. You completely surrender, then, tell us at the flick of

an eyelid, what happened

Question 3. Yes ! However comparitively there are delays. All

answers are in the words of Shraddhey Swamiji.

 

IN HINDI

 

Q. 1: Sadhak pahele se hi aise karte aah rahe hai

Q. 2: Aap poornatah sharanaagat ho jaaye, phir kahiyegaa palak

jhapakate kyaa ho gayaa.

Q. 3: Haa kintu apekshaakrt der se. Sabhi utter Shraddhey Swamiji

ke shabd hai.

 

Ram Ram

Sarvottam

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Oh No , Raja Bhaiyya! When I wrote this piece ( straight from Sadhak

Sanjeevani) , there was no other thought like feeling offended etc.

Kindly never feel so. You have indeed been a companion of truth

always. Both me and my Hubby admire your timely contributions. There

can't be any such question of getting offended. This is satsanga.

This indeed is a divine platform of discussing such important issues.

 

In fact we ourselves believe in quick realisation. This piece when I

read Sadhak Sanjivani - came to my notice for the first time. I was

indeed happy to see how deep were Swamiji's bhavas.

 

Believe Me, Raja Bhaiyya, Swamiji was indeed an angel.He was indeed

Godly. My husband keeps listening His CDs continuously. In the night

he religiously starts his discourses at 11 pm and the player is on

till 8 am . It plays whole night. Many times in half sleep when

keertans come, the feeling is divine.Many times when there is no

deep sleep, the voice of Swamiji appears nectar like. In dreams too

His roaring voice plays in background. It is every day routine for

us.

 

My hubby too contributes in this divine satsanga. We have learnt

together, we have become sadhaks together. Now children have also

started taking interest. We have same goal. There is no place of

getting offended in our life. We believe that " svabhav " can be

improved in human life only and no where else. Both of us are

basically fault finders of each other.

 

Occassional aggression reflected in my writings is mere fun and my

weakness perhaps. I must seek forgiveness of all for being rather

aggressive.

 

My sincere pranaams to you. And to all sadhaks , Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

Dear sadaks,

In Bagavat geetha Bagavan says Abhyaas done over several births may

give liberation. But Bagavan says again in same BG that Bagavan can

liberate a person in the same birth if HE makes Sankalpa. First

instance one can do Abhyaas but will have somewhere in a corner of

mind (without the knowledge of himself) that he is doing Abyas. That

I am doing abyas creates Divaytham (plural - Me and God are

differant). During Abyas one slowly looses this thought that me is

differant from God after practice in several births and gets to see

Bhagavan. But many saint failed in Abhyaas. One such was Sant

Viswamitra. Another saint getting boon from Bhrama 400 years to live

and got nothing at end. He got fed up and thought of Sri Vishnu

closing his eyes and shed 2 drops of tears. On opening his eyes Sri

Vishnu was in front of him. Bagavan said for the 2 drops of tears I

(Bagavan) appeared and further said, " When you lost hope in you

doing abhyaas and surrendered to me with tears I had to appear. "

This means God and saint were one at one stage of surrender- Which

Means Advaitham. This does not mean to discourage abhyaas. But meant

to bring in that one doing abhyaas should always think that it is

Bhagavan wish.

 

Coming to Easy & quick means.

There were few saints got to see Bagavan instantly. 1)

Sidharameswara (temple in Sholapur). He jumped from clif failing

that Bagavan Shiva never came doing Tapa for few weeks. As he was

falling from heights, he felt someone caught hold of him and pulled

him up to top of cliff. There he saw Bagavan Shiva. Later he got

Sidhis and is known to be in Jeeva Samadhi at Sholapur. 2) Sri

Ragavendra at tender age gave fruits to Sri Krishna Idol and God

never took. The boy cried profusly and Sri Krishna appeared. 3) The

same with Sant Namadev. 4) Child 3 years old Thirugynanasambathar

cried for hunger looking at the Shiva temple. Mother Parvathi came

and fed milk to him. This saint known to have done wonders. At one

stage the saint took all people along with him to Sri Kailash.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------

Jai Hanumanji

Jai shree ramji

I partially agree with Shashikalajee jee jee.

I meant to ask about quickness but it was misinterpreted. Quickness

means if you are thisty & water is in front of you, then why

strive? Thinking that quickness is not good, it may create short

falls or may be looked upon as foolishness.

Like that when God is everywhere, what is the problem if God is here

right with you, whthin you. Why deny the truth?

 

Jeejee Swamiji said humans themselves, very meticulously, create

hurdles around them that God Realization is difficult, years & years

must pass before realizing, only then it will be true.

Isn't it ridiculous that you have food rights in front of you,

people requesting you to please take it, to eat it & you say - NO I

WILL STRIVE instead.

 

SORRY IF I OFFENDED, BUT TRUTH IS BITTER SOMETIMES.

I heartily apologise If I offended someones opinion. Simultaneously

I support my learnings from Swami Ramsukhdasji.

 

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

There are two terms. One - " abhyaas " (practice) and two- " abhyaas

yoga " ( practice with equanimity). BG 12:9 - deals with the latter.

Here there has to be " an object fixed " before you indulge

into " practice " of naam japa, (repeated chanting of God's name)

sankeertan, shravan (hearing, satsanga) etc. That object has to

be " God realisation " . Such an object is very easy to be fixed- once

you have " become " of God by accepting " mere to Girdhar Gopal. "

 

When sadhak with the above object does practice of naam japa etc

then his antahkarana (mind, intellect, ego) starts becoming purer

and a " desire " of God Realisation arises in him. When he

becomes " equanimous " in accomplishment/non accomplishment, then an

anxiety in him arises of God Realisation. This anxiety (vyakulta)

burns sadhak's attachment with the world and the sins of endless

births. Upon happenning of that , sadhak develops exclusive love

with God , and a stage comes when he can't tolerate disconnection

with God. As a law then God also can't tolerate disconnection with

Sadhak.

 

And you get God Realisation.

 

You get delayed only because you tolerate delay.

 

" Practice " is purification of mind and an effort by Sadhak to

concentrate mind upon the God. (BG 6:26) " Practice with Yoga " (

Abhyaas Yoga) does not seek to concentrate the mind , it results

in " disconnection with mind " .(BG 12:9).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

---------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

We all desire to do sadhan (striving) , we do sadhan also but we

keep along with that our likings in respect of what we consider as

ideal circumstance/state, favourable situation and pleasure desiring

intellect. This is a very very big obstacle in our striving.

 

If a sadhak searches for easiness in striving, and wants to realise

very quickly then he is desirous/lover of pleasure and not of

striving. Such a sadhak has to suffer delay. Because then his eye is

set on the result and not on the striving. Such focus on result

creates boredom in sadhak and causes delay.

 

A desire for God is one thing and a desire for quick realisation is

another. The latter gets angry in case any obstacle comes in his

striving. The former when faced with obstacle starts crying

helplessly, which increases in fact his desire for God ( utkantha) .

 

In desiring " quickness " (latter case) there is bhava of comfort

and result. There sadhak feels first let me realise God and then I

will take rest. That reduces your respect for sadhan (striving). But

in case of utkantha ( former case) , sadhak sees his rest and

comfort in sadhan itself. " What else is more important work than

this? " - He thinks like that ! He develops a feeling - I have to get

God, whether early, late, easily or with difficulty. Thus then his

entire strength gets employed towards the striving. But one desiring

quickness, can get disappointed also quickly. There should not a

bhava of quickness in sadhak.

 

Said Mother Parvati in Ramayana -

 

" Janam Koti Lag ragar hamaru, varau Shambhu na ta rahat kunwaari !

 

Tajau na Narada kar updeshu, aapu kahahu sat baar Maheshu "

 

Even if millions of life times may get elapsed, I shall marry only

Lord Shiva else I will remain bachelor only. I shall not deviate

from the advice given to me by Sage Narada, even if Lord Shiva

Himself tells me hundred times to deviate.

 

Here the emphasis is on object/ striving and not on quickness.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

------------------------------

I thought the following article provides a radically diferent outlook

to the one many Sadhaks in this group are more familiar with

regarding the " God Realization " . I think this somewhat addresses the

current topic - whether God Realization is easy and quick or by

practice. Please feel free to express your opinions.

 

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

 

 

Practiced Yoga vs Stumbled-Upon Yoga †" by Swami Vivekananda

 

The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of

existence, beyond reason, a superconcious state, and when the mind

gets to that higher state, then this knowledge, beyond reasoning,

comes to man.

Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man. This

state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human natur, may

sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its

science; he, as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it,

he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains

why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in

different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through

an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God.

What does it mean? It means that mind brought the knowledge by its

own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted

according to the belief and education of the person through whom it

came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled

upon this superconscious state.

 

The Yogi says there is a great danger in stumbling upon this state.

In a good many cases there is the danger of the brain being

deranged, an as a rule, you will find that all these men, however

great they were, who had stumbled upon this superconscious state

without understanding it, groped in the dark and generally had,

along with their knowledge, some quaint superstition. They opened

themselves to hallucinations.

 

Whenever a prophet got into a superconscious state by heightening

his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only

some truths but some fanatism also, some superstitions which injured

the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any

reason out of the mass incogruity we call human life, we have to

transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically, slowly, by

regular practice, and we must cast off all superstitions. We must

take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other

science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must

follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason

itself will how us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man

say 'I am inspired' and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why?

Because these three states - instinct, reason, and superconscious,

or the unconscious, conscious and superconscious state - belong to

one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but the

state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason,

and reason develops into the transcendental consciousness;

therefore, not one of the states contradicts the other. Real

inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfills it. Just as you

find the great prophets saying, 'I came not to destroy but to

fulfil,' so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in

harmony with it.

 

(Partial / selected reproduction)

 

" The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda " , Advaita Ashrama, Mayavati

Memorial Edition, Fourteenth Edition, 1972 Vol. I p.183-185.

 

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Equanimity is a junction through which all trains of sadhana have to

pass. In all yogas - the end result has to be equanimity, Jee.

Sadhaks must concentrate, hence in attaining equanimity. Your

goal should be to achieve that Jee. That is real bravery, that is

real challenge, that is real karma.

 

If you delete " likings and dislikings " from your bhavas/ego,

then attaining equanimity is very fast.

 

If sadhaks really want to reap maximum benefits of satsanga then

they should deliberate regarding various divine traits as stated in

BG 16:1 to 16:3, such as - Attachment and aversion (Raag and

dvesha), Ego, Equanimity, Conscience, Liberation (Freedom from

bondage), God Realisation

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------

Hari Om

 

Swamiji was great admirer of naam japa and sankeertan. This was

inspite of the fact that He always stated that by using body you

cannot get God Realisation - under all the circumstances. You must

disconnect with inert. Hence He insisted that you " become " of God

first and then if you chant the name it gets you God Realisation.

Same view is of Goswamiji Tulsidasji Maharaj.

 

Under all the circumtances the naam japa, keertan, remembering God

is divine act. But if there is no mineness with God responsible for

the same, then bhajan time gets limited to the extent of actual time

used. If you " become " of God first , then each and every activity of

yours , worldly, physical -any activity becomes Bhajan. That 24x7

never ceasing bhajan only can satisfy otherwise stringent

requirements of Bhakti Yoga as per Gita.

 

Hence the first step is " acceptance " that " Mere to Girdhar Gopal,

Doosara na koi " . This is how you " become " of God.

 

Sadhaks may note that " doosaro na koi " is much more essential

than " mere to Girdhar Gopal " . Whether you say/believe or not, like

it or not, know it or not - He is always ours. You are His only from

time immemorial . Hence " negation " of world is more important.

Sadhaks should therefore concentrate more on " disconnection from

world " than on " connection with God " . Connection is already there.

Sadhak should develop a habit of " renouncing/giving " .

 

Once you " become " of God, believe me, process is very very fast.

This is because then even your sleep period is counted as bhajan. So

you are deemed as per Gita. As soon as you " become " of God , divine

properties start " manifesting " in you automatically and

effortlessly. You become Dharmatma instantly. Your bad habits

evaporate as if they never existed. Then you don't have to make an

effort to " do " bhajan (abhyaas), bhajan " happens " on it's own.

Natural love for God starts arising from SELF directly. It is a law

that Love generates from " mineness " . When you " become " of God, you

have established " mineness " with Him.

 

How easy ! How simple !! How logical ! How practical ! How fast !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

A single act of putting one's self, body, mind etc in service of

one's parents( of this birth - father/mother) by a male gets him God

Realisation.

 

A single act of putting one's self, body, mind etc in service of

one's husband by a female gets her God Realisation.

 

A single act of putting one's self, body , mind etc in service of

Paramatma gets every one God Realisation.

 

A single act of disconnection with inert by the self gets you God

Realisation.

 

A single firm resolve that " Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosara na koi " -

Only God is mine, no other is mine- gets you God Realisation.

 

A single act of remembering/chanting name/ keertan gets you God

provided you have established " mineness " with God.

 

A Single act of crying and running into the ever waiting lap of

Mother God in a child like manner gets you God Realisation.

 

Single act ! We can't call then the God Realisation to be difficult.

 

Jaat Bhajo, Gujar Bhajo chahe bhajo Ahir

 

Tulsi Raam ke naam main sab kahoo ka seer

 

Whoever is devoted to God gets Him ! No pre requisites, no

classification, no distinction- only shraddha ( respectful belief),

vishwas (faith/trust) , love ( God is mine ) , devotion ( I am of

God) is needed.

 

Be devoted to Him and you get Him. Be good and you get Him. Be not

bad and you get Him. Leave bad company and you get Him.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Let me share my answers to the following questions!

 

Q1: I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of

bhakti and means of realization by this powerful medium of

group.

A1: Sadhakas are discussing means of realization in the way they

find suitable and simple enough. Each sadhaka has his/her own

understanding of what is simple. Generally a path by itself is not

adopted by most sadhakas. There is a predominance of either

Devotion, or Selfless actions of service, or Self-inquiry. Devotion

is common in all sadhanas, even in Self-inquiry or in Selfless

Karmas, one has to be totally devoted to Truth or Selflessness.

Karmas have to performed by all including Bhaktas. Ultimately Truth

dawns on all who are ready to let go of everything and remain

steadfast on their respective paths. None is superior or inferior

to any one else!

 

Q2: How can man attain very quickly Realization of Paramatma?

A2: By not demanding quick realization of Paramatma!

He is already the timeless Presence within us. Realization happens

in time but not due to time! Realization needs intensity of Sadhana

and not a length of time. From mind's point of view, God Realization

can be thought of in terms of quick or slow as conventionly pointed

out, which may be to lay emphasis on urgency of Realization. God is

eternity in NOW!

 

Q3:Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

A3: Again, emphasis should be on Sadhana and not on time element.

Here it can be pointed out specially in the beginning of Sadhana

that help of friend(s) spiritually inclined, or someone who has

imbibed the teaching of Gita/scriptures such as Swamiji is of great

help. One has to burn with desire to know truth-God of course. On

the path of Truth anyone or anything can be our Guru if mind is

open and heart feels Love. I have known this: Desire to know

God/Truth is a direct invitation from God/Truth. One needs to say

YES on RSVP!

 

Namaskaras........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Indeed ! Indeed Vyasji !! There you are ! Oye Lovely Jee! Doubt is

the root of evil. No doubt on this Jee ! In case of doubt use the

mind or throw the mind in dust bin ? Throw the mind Jee ! Use self

Jee ! No doubt Jee?

 

Doubt on Saints and Sages ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

When the evil temper of doubt has ceased, the mind, with its

confusion and wonder departed and quite full within or self

satisfied, shines like the full moon.

 

When the mind is calmed , evenness (equanimity) , giving birth to

the greatest beauty and with rise or fall in a remote degree ,

arises everywhere, as it happens in an ocean when the wind has

subsided.

 

O Swamiji ! O Taat Shree !! O Maharajji !!!

 

Wisdom or wise sayings which captivate the heart, which are capable

of delighting the world and which have been acquired by virtue, grow

like beams of light from the full moon.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Sadhaks may even set small targets for themselves and keep intensely

following the same with Shraddha/Vishwas.For this purpose first they

may assess their present status vis a vis the world. Where are they

bound? Think seriously how at present you are bound, why and by

which people/things. Make a list. Include in that list smallest

things which bind you today. Spent a day by taking God's name in the

beginning - only in making this list. What is binding you to the

world ? This list will set the ball rolling. Add in the list body,

mind, intellect, ego, kith and kin, home, job, duties -whatever you

feel is binding you.

 

Consider a scene like this. Two people are cuddled together. Each

has held arm of other. Both are sufferring and complaining that we

are bound ! " Chhootata nahin hai " -Does not get released ! One party

is sadhak , the other party is world.

 

First Sadhak should leave the arm which he has grasped of the other

party. This is step 1. That is done by " not expecting anything for

self from the world " .

 

Now with that release of grasp , half the tension is gone. You are

not holding arm of the world. You can breath better now. Peace will

start generating. World will also feel better and pleased. It is all

by " bhavas " , by inner intentions. Outer world will not even notice

your releasing the attachment ! World will feel pleasure only.

 

But world is still holding your arm. " Karmanubandhini manushyaloke " -

you are bound by a lot of world say home, children, hubby- the

sweet heart, parents, - they all are still holding your arm because

they are dependent upon you. Because they need you. Because you are

indebted to them. Start serving them with every thing you have got.

In due course they will release your arm. It is a law that " SERVICE

DESTROYS MINENESS " .

 

And you shall be on the path to become free/liberated. But first

release your holding the arm of the world by not expecting anything

from the world.

 

There goes " mineness " . It is a law that with mineness the ego

automatically goes !

 

First stop expecting any thing from world, Second Keep serving the

world. Just do these two things to begin with. The path is very easy.

 

Try it Jee! Implement. Don't say, do it !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

------------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Dalmiaji, your Guru " Bhagavad Gita " has betrayed you. Look what it

says.

 

" He who has mastered his senses, is extremely devoted to his

practice and is full of faith, attains Knowledge; having had the

revelation of Truth, he immediately attains supreme peace in the

form of God-Realization. " (4-39)

 

" Arjuna, whosoever always and constantly thinks of Me with undivided

mind, to that Yogi ever absorbed in me I am easily attainable. " (8-

14)

 

" This knowledge (of both the Nirguna and Saguna aspects of Divinity)

is a sovereign science, a sovereign secret, supremely holy, most

excellent, directly enjoyable, attended with virtue, very easy to

practice and imperishable. " (9-2)

 

" On the other hand, those depending exclusively on Me, and

surrendering all actions to Me, worship Me (Sagun Sakar-God with

form and attributes), constantly meditating on Me with single-minded

devotion, them, Arjuna, I speedily deliver from the ocean of birth

and death, their mind being fixed on Me. " (12-6,7)

 

" Peace immediately follows from renunciation. " (12-12)

 

" The moment man perceives the diversified existence of beings as

rooted in the one Supreme Being and the spreading forth of all

beings from the same, that very moment he attains Brahma (who is

Truth, Consciousness and Bliss solidified). " (13-30)

 

Dalmiaji, this is your kindness that you pity those sadhaks who

follow Swamiji's words blindly.

 

I would sincerely request you to forgive Swamiji (for not clearing

your test) and God (for making above statements).

 

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

The best example of " quick realisation " is ARJUNA. By just hearing

Gita, in the horrible circumstances of war, He realised the Truth.

Then there is Mira Bai, Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj, Swamiji

Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Valmiki, Ajamil, Shabri, Sudama, Hanuman

Prasadji Poddar, Jaidayalji Goenka, Tukaram , Prahlad, Dhruva ( The

list can be endless) – they all realised Paramatma in one life time.

In fact Swamiji stated that you have got so much of time that you

can get Paramatma many times over in one life time. Gita is full of

verses where the realisation is stated to be VERY VERY QUICK, easy

and certain. I can give list of at least 50 such verses. What is

needed ? A simple " mental " disconnection by the SELF from " inert " .

That is all. We are already connected with Paramatma. Remove the

artificial/temporary connection with world , your eternal connection

with God shall manifest automatically. Silver lining is that " inert "

is already disconnecting with you. Just do not establish new

connections, the old connections will automatically go away. As

simple as that ! Where is delay ? It is all tricks of worldly minds

that make us believe that it is difficult and time consuming. I can

give every day 10 examples of quick realisation for next one year

with authentication by Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma !!!

 

Difficulty is not in God Realisation. Difficulty is in relinquishing

the shelter of mind, intellect, ego and body ! We have , become so

attached to the body that any suggestion even of the type that

body/mind etc are distinct from self appears " impractical " to us. We

are being cheated by our own minds. Mind, if you do not pay respect

to it, becomes helpless. If you say it is good then it becomes

master of you. We are stuck only on one method of God Realisation,

but there are minimum 30 independent methods of God Realisation – as

per Gita Only ! What to talk about Bhagvatam, Yoga Vaashishtha,

Puranas etc. If you read " Mahatamya " ( Glorification stories) of

each chapter of Gita in Padam Purana, you will find how quick " God

Realisation " can be.

 

Swamiji indeed realised Paramatma. He set as His goal, how to give

quickest possible methods to the humanity at large of God

Realisation. Sadhaks may be certain that what ever is necessary for

God Realisation is already there with them IN ABUNDANCE. There is no

need for any thing further. They have to utilise in accordance with

their conscience and scriptures - whatever is easily available to

them and that is all. What Guru ? Every particle of the universe is

Guru for a sadhak. Many of the sadhaks in this forum have claimed

that they had /have Gurus. Have they realised God? Your real Guru

is VIVEKA. Your real Guru is KRISHNA . SELF is Guru of SELF.

When " inert " itself cannot reach God, where is any other left except

SELF/VIVEKA? KRISHNA ? As simple as that. I have read a lot of

Scriptures myself- in order to reconcile Swamiji's statements.

BELIEVE ME – I have not found a single statement made by Him to be

in contradiction with any Upanishad, any Purana, any Sanatan Dharma

Holy Text. IT IS A TRUTH> Sadhaks are welcome to make their own

research and come with contradictions. Don't bring instances of "

late realisation " - because hundreds of methods are available in the

Scriptures for the same. If some body goes on foot, somebody goes in

train, somebody goes in Aircraft- the time taken to reach will

naturally be different.

 

Sadhak B Sathyanarainji must have given instances ( Names) of more

than a dozen " quick realisations " in his various postings during

last 3 months on this web site. Gyaneshwar, Sukubai, Chhota Mela,

Vithal, Ramana Maharshi,- many many more. , Sathyanarainji

invariably gives names of great souls. Sadhaks should read each and

every posting carefully. This is indeed a JNANA YAGYA. In real sense

of the word- as Gita means that! We should always believe in Saints

and Sages. Mixing doubt in belief is responsible for delay. Intense

desire can not be there if there is doubt. Swamiji always stated

DON'T MIX DOUBT IN BELIEF. " To believe " is an act of SELF. " To

doubt " is an act of mind. Self and mind are different in nature,

characteristics etc. By renouncing mind ( inert) , in other words by

renouncinf doubt only you can realise Paramatma.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Sadaks, Srimath Bagavath is contiuation of Mahabarath (After

Bagavan` s Geetha). In that it is authentically said, " Nama

Sankeethana " , is enough for God realization/Mukthi. The Pala of

seeking God differs from Yuga to Yuga. In Kali Yuga Nama sankeethan

is enough. It is simple and shortest way said by Rishi Veda Vyas.

Besides in scripts it is said that " Vyasa roopaya Vishnuve- Vishnu

roopaya Vyasaye " . This means Rishi Vyas statement is

undoubtfull.Furthe if one looks into Kali Yuga about God

realization, many Bakthas did only Namas sankeethan. Tukaram said

Name of Pandurag. Namadev said Name of Vital. Samartha Ramadoss said

crores of Ram Nam. Thygaraja Swamy of south India only sang on Sri

Rama. Tulasi said, " Jai Sita Ram " . Some people I met in remote

Himalayas knew nothing but was saying, " Rama Nam Satyahe- Rama Nam

Sathyahe " . These people does not know puranas, sanskrit etc but was

praised God owned people by Tapovan Maharaj.One vaisnavite sanit

sang in Tamil, " Nalam Tharum, Selvam Tharum etc and ended with Om

Namo Narayanaya " . means Om Namo Narayana gives health, wealth, good

mind, GURU, mother, father, etc " . One more Vaisnavite saint called

Thiruppan Alwar was born in Schedule caste. So he was not allowed in

Sri Rangam temple. He used to keep on saying, " Rangeshamai Phahi

rangeshama " . One day it so happened Bagavan Sri Ranganathar temple

chief who was conversant with vedas etc to carry Thiruppan Alwar to

carried on the priest shoulder to the Sanctum Sanctorium. This saint

was caught hold by force and carried to daity. Thiruppan Alwar sang

saying, " The eyes that saw Bagavan will not see anything on earth',

and thus he fell down there and was taken abode of BagavanAnother

scheduled caste Shivite saint Nandhanar sang, " Say one time alteast

Nama Shivaya " . He knew no vedas, scripts etc, but Bagavan Shiva

called him to famous temple Chidambaram, where he was pronounced by

Bagavan Shiva that Nadhanar is HIS great Baktha.

So sadaks, Nama Sankeerthan takes care of rest of the life to be in

path of divinity.

B. Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

Priya Sadhaks,

 

I have been reading the messages for sometime, wondering how my name

landed up on this group's list. Today I have thought of responding

to the same, based on my limited understanding of Gita.

 

My father used to always read gita everyday till he passed away two

years back. I have also been reading gita for the last several

years. Hopefully, I have understood something about what the lord

says in Gita.

 

At one level, Gita is an amazing scripture providing total guidance

about how to live life. The major discussion as I have noticed in

these mails is about realising god easily and quikly. Another issue

has been about finding a guru.

 

While at one level it is correct to say that one can easily realise

god, but the prerequisite being that the sadhak is in a position to

realise god. After all we are talking about someting that is

spiritual. Question is have we prepared ourselves so as to realise

god. Can we recognise god if he comes to us? In my humble belief

even before a person can talk of realisation, it is important to

develop purity of thought, honesty of words, sincerity of action and

a compassionate heart.

 

A person should try and develop love for every living being and at

the same time try to keep anger, lust, envy, jealousy and greed

away.

 

We need to remember that god is not a physical trophy to be

receieved but it is a goal that can be reached if we prepare

ourselves for the journey (spiritual not physical) within. I

personally believe that once a person starts working with total

devotion in this direction developing the qualities mentioned

earlier, lord will appear sooner than one can believe. However, the

million rupee question remains that unless one has prepared oneself

to receive the lord, a person will not recognise him even if he were

to appear before such a person.

 

So first let us start preparing ourselves for the great journey and

make ourselves worthy of attaining the lotus feet of the Lord. Let

us stop pointing out mistakes of others instead let us try to redeem

ourselves of the several shortcomings each one of us suffers from

and that itself will be a good beginning.

 

These are some of my humble thoughts and if I have offended anybody

my apologies for the same as that is not my intention. After all I

am also a mere seeker on the path of truth.

 

Shivkumar

 

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

 

Am referring to responses made to Mr. Dalmia's improper comments? As

it has been already pointed out, Swamiji Maharaj's messages are very

simple, clear and to the point. His messages are divine since he

experienced the truths himself first and then he spoke, in modern

language, we say - walk the talk. His life is truly an exemplary

one. Most of us know that the work going on in the Gita-talk group

has been possible only through his divine inspiration and blessings.

We all are indebted deeply to this divine soul for his blessings

through of his many discourses and books. In my opinion it would be

a white lie to say that Swamiji was wrong in any of his

utterances.Yes, it is possible that we may not have understood the

true spirit in which the messages wee delivered.

 

On the question - " Easy and Quick Means of God Realization "

Swamiji Maharaj has said in his discourses time and again, yes God

realization is easy and quick, the only thing required is an intense

desire to attain God. What is lacking is the depth of intensity,

people have doubts, especially when it is suggested that something

as simple as this, given that we firmly attainment of God cannot be

so easy and simple.

 

In this context, one time, Swamiji Maharaj was speaking on this very

subject, an incident happened, as one of the devotees (a bank

manager) was listening to Swamiji that attaining to God is so easy,

possible even today it is possible. This gentleman wanted to try

this out, he went home, got his house cleaned and ready with flower

garlands etc. It did not happen that day for him, he was very upset.

Next day Swamiji happened to be taking biksha at his house, he asked

Swamiji that why he was not able to meet with God, yesterday.

Swamiji asked him; by the way, did you by chance doubt that it may

not possibly happen since it sounds so simple. The gentleman said,

yes he had thought exactly that. Swamiji said that he himself had

created the obstacle by doubting that it may not happen since it is

so simple.

 

Gita verse 7-3, says:

" manusyanam saharesu, kascid yatati siddhaye

yatatam api siddhanam, kascin mam vetti tattavatah "

 

Meaning:

Among thousands of men, scarcely one strives for perfection and

those strive and succeed, scarcely one knows Me in essence.

 

As Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjivani, it is not the case that

attainment of God is difficult; the scarcity is that sincere seekers

are so few. It should be like as Meerabai says, " Mere to Giridhar

Gopal dusra no koye " , that exclusive love is the only requirement

 

Ram Ram

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

--------------------------------

My dandavats to all in this forum...

I have just read the post by sadhak Dalmia.....and I am not quite

sure I would take his words to be offensive....I didn't see that he

was putting anyone down...particularly, but attempting to

analyze..Personally, I have heard many times that patience is

extremely important in God Realizatiion....in the instructions of

the Sri Upadesamrta, by Srila Rupa Goswami, verse 3, it is

stated, " utsahan nischayad dairyat " ....English meaning, " There are

six principles favorable for the execution of pure devotional

service....enthusiasm, confidence, patience.... " (the verse

continues with the other half). Why is patience essential if one

is thinking, " I will attain God realization in a moment? " Not

everyone will attain in a moment. Only very few examples have I

heard, one of Ajamila, who saw the Yamaduta's at his bedside, but

then did not leave his body...he was given a second lease on

life.....he went to Hardwar and perfected his sadhan. That " moment "

which is described may be many years, if we are to calculate in

terms of eternity. What is this entire life, of maybe 100 years (if

we are fortunate) but a moment in the course of eternal existence?

Also, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, by grandfather spiritual

master, had a math in India....one time some villagers came, wanting

to live in Math. He agreed, and gave them the service of planting

eggplants. They were shocked.... " We have come here to plant

eggplants? We could have done this from home. " They then left the

math. So, they had no patience to understand, there are many

valuable lessons we will learn by living here, staying in

association of sadhus.....they left because they could not

appreciate the deeper lesson of patience.

I think that Mr. Dalmia made a very good point, about this forum

being for general inspiration, as it has a very broad audience. To

inspire, to enliven the mind for discussion, it is extremely

valuable in my opinion. One should never feel that debate on

transcendental topic has no point, provided the respondents are

respectful. Did Mr Dalmia say anywhere that he did not think this

forum was valuable?

Also, I find it interesting, that although many in the forum refuse

to accept themselves as any type of guru, the general mood of other

supporters, which I believe is correct, is to offer the respect and

defense as if they were defending their guru. I am not in any way

discouraging this, because I believe in the concept of guru. And I

accept many here to be acting, for me, as siksha guru. But I am

questioning whether the words of sadhak Dalmia were

misunderstood. Is there anywhere he said that he did not

appreciate having this venue for discussion? He pointed out that

for some individuals, more specific guidance is necessary, I agree

with that completely.

In regard to my question about the various yogas, " good

thoughts " , etc. giving God realization, perhaps there is a much

deeper angle to my question. What level of God realization does an

individual want? Any level of person can understand, if they want

to believe in the presence of a Supreme Being, that if He is

inconceivable, then certainly He can be present in every atom. But

isn't there a higher level, which some will achieve, of knowing God

as a person? Not everyone will understand and recognize that He is

able to manifest Himself in this world, or any other world, and have

loving relationships with those who have surrendered their hearts to

Him, in the mood of mother, or brother, sister, friend, wife, girl-

friend, etc. So, depending on what level of God realization one

wants, one may need to seek guidance from guru. And some may

not....they may start as very young children, seeing their Dearmost

friend sitting next to them, having conversations with Him, knowing

Him to be by their side always. This is only due to previous life

connection, that from child-hood, or upon hearing that it is

possible, one will immediately accept this connection without any or

very lttle guidance.

Accepting formality of guru is not the biggest concern, for

many. For many it is to learn to discriminate between where truth

can be found....and as many have said, to see every where that we

must learn to hear Lord Krishna speaking to us, or God in whatever

form we call Him. Then, when a true guru is manifest, one will have

the sukrti (pious credits in the heart) to know he has found someone

from the transcendental world.

I am glad that moderators printed Mr Dalmia's submission, I do

not see that he was attacking, but trying to express that a doubt he

had was not cleared up. The expression, " You can achieve God

realization in a moment " is not false, but one must come to the

level of understanding (which takes patience) that a moment can be

thousands of years if one examines the quality

of " sat " ......eternity.....we have no beginning or end.

Many thanks to all for kindly hearing my humble presentation.

Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Priya Sadhaks

 

The comments of Mr Dalmia are absolutely shocking. Look how a

brain carries the hatred about a Saint of the class of Swamiji

merely because Mr Dalmiaji could not grasp by his mind the teachings

and greatness of Swamiji. Such postings should be screened by

Moderators and not of Jee Jee Shashikalajee's postings. She gives

momentum to the deliberations. She does not like a parrot keep

utterring same words - Desire, 3 yogas, time needed and that is

all.She brings new practical thoughts.

 

Please , Dalmiaji, in this " ghor kaliyuga " when 14000 people are

having satsanga in such a sober manner, please allow them to do so.

We are happy with whatever we are reading from Swamiji, Vyasji,

Mike, Sarvottamji, Mira Dasji, Papruniaji, Satyanarainji and dozens

like them. Hari Mohan Deoji , Rakshitaji all are clear headed. I

benefit immensely.. We( I and I am sure many like me) are able to

understand and appreciate their views. What is then the problem? Let

us have this divine Satsanga.

 

Many of you do not know what benefits I have got by implementing

some suggestions of Jee Jee Shashikalaji, Sarvottamji, Mike,

Rajendraji and Vyasji. Such an elite club in such terrible times-

God's Grace is there on this web site, no doubt.

 

Sadhaks - please follow Swamiji. You will benefit immensely. Why

blindly ? Apply your mind and logic. Who says no ? If you don't

have mind, then go blindly. But we all have minds, Jee ! Isn't it

Jee Jee ?

 

M M Purohit

---------------------------

Priya Sadhaks

 

I have been reading the messages of this divine web site and

immensely like the depth of answers by some sadhaks- Vyasji, Mike

Keenor, Sarvottamji, Gurudassaniji, Mira Dassji, Sathyanarainji -

all sterling messages.. I think the comments of A H Dalmia are

unfortunate and baseless perhaps arising out of ignorance. There was

nothing which Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj could not answer. It is

unfortunate that we are not able to comprehend the discourses of

such a rare and great Saint. Perhaps reliance on murky mind is

responsible for the same. Frankly, I found nothing wrong in what

another sadhak referred by him wrote in the past. Mr Dalmiaji,

kindly take the time to understand the sadhak's message- my humble

view.

 

Beenani S

------------------------------

Jai Shree Ram

 

There is nothing wrong in the comments made by Hari Mohan Deo and

Rakshita Mehta. Mahalaxmiji is confused unnecessarily. Also comments

of A H Dalmia are leaving a bitter taste in mouth. Swamiji

Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never tell a lie just to encourage

sadhaks to believe that God Realisation is not difficult. This very

thought of Dalmia is wrong and is merely ego/mind generated. There

was also nothing wrong in the statements made by a sadhak and quoted

by A H Dalmia. Question at that point was " What is Bhajan " .

Certainly bhajan is not chanting the name of God alone. One must

read the entire context to understand. I request moderator to screen

Mr Dalmia's postings to avoid misleading the sadhak. How the

question of " sadhak " and " siddha " arose? What is the relevance ?

Please let us enjoy Satsanga as it is. Please do not caution us. We

have enough discrimination with us to understand what is good and

what is bad. God forgives not a disrespect to His devotees /

Saints. Never forget this.

 

Respects

 

Chesta Vinod

--------------------------

IN ENGLISH

Blessed are the Great Souls !

What Dalmiaji has written is very unfortunate. He must not write

such comments about saints such as Swamiji. The flaw is in

Dalmiaji's thoughts. Why don't you share a great thought in this

wonderful and pure forum (gita talk)? Please open your eyes and

everything will start to become clear.

 

IN HINDI

Dhanya ho mahapurush

Dalmiaji ne bhi likha hai woh atyant durbhagyapoorvak hai.

Dalmiaji ko iss terah ke comment swamiji jaise sant ke baare main

nahin likhni chahiye . Kisi sadhak ne kuchh bhi galat nahin likha.

Galti dalmiyaji ke vicharo main hai. Dalmiya ji aap kuchh badhia

baat bataiye to sahee. Is geeta talk jaisi Pavitra jagah. Ankhen

Kholiye sab dikhaai dena suru ho jayega. Open your eyes.

Ramchander

--------------------------

Hari Om

 

Mahalaxmiji. The comments of Rakshitaji are not wrong. You have not

understood them. Please read them carefully- once again. Yes by

right thoughts, by meditation, by good karmas also you can reach

God. That is called Karma Yoga. Meditation is part of Dhyaan Yoga.

Nothing wrong Rakshitaji has written. You cant practice Karma Yoga

without right thoughts and good/ sattwik karmas. There is a system

of those karmas getting converted into " Akarmas " as per Gitaji.

Meditation gives you strength to disconnect with the inert. It is a

separate independent method of God Realisation. Read Gita regularly.

All types of methods are there- some delay , some are fast, some are

super fast. There is no need of any particular Guru at any point of

time. Guru when needed comes in your life and opens eyes of a

genuine , serious sadhak. God has given this human birth, is that

God so miser that He would expect you to search for a Guru ? With

the human birth He has given you everything which is required by you

for God Realisation. You are wasting your time by thinking about

Guru. Please keep reading and oblige us all. In every happening a

Guru is hidden. Keep your mental antennas open and receptive. Read

more.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH

Prostration to you ! Dalmiaji's remarks appear to indicate jealousy

and hatred, and do not hold much weight. He must read good

scriptures, books, Gita etc, as this is the age to do so. Let us do

all satsang. [shivkumar naravat]

 

IN HINDI

aap ko dandvat

dalmia ji ke remarks bahut jealousy and hatredful hain. kuchh vajan

nahin hai unki baaton main. dalmia ji ko khud ko acche

granth,books,gita,padhani chahiye. abhi unke padhane ki umar hai.

hamko satsanga karane deejiye.

[shivkumar naravat]

 

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

Question is that how you can realise God in a quick time. Answer is

that as soon as you firmly determine that " I am of God, only God is

mine and nothing else is mine " you are on the fastest track to reach

Him. But the determination should be very firm and must be adhered

to. Just As : A newly married girl , once she accepts I am not

bachelor , she never thereafter considers otherwise or forgets her

acceptance level. This is all is needed. It may take a second of

time or it may take aeons and kalpas for you to decide so. Unless

you do that , there may be great karmas by you- but not the God

Realisation.

 

In His discourse on 6th June, 1994 Swamiji gave a beautiful example

of the solidity of acceptance, when it is made by SELF. He rarely

talked about Himself. In this discourse, He stated that once He had

a dream. In that dream, He dressed like a woman ( Saree/blouse etc)

and went to Durga Temple for worship. He said that in the dream

also, there was a fear existing in Him that He should not touch any

female or by mistake no female should touch Him ! He laughed in the

discourse , stated that inspite of His being in a female dress, and

being a female in the dream, the acceptance made by SELF was so

powerful. He stressed that this is how the acceptance by SELF works.

I don't have any means of verifying this information , but He once

said that a Suhagan (married woman with husband alive) never sees

herself as widow in the dream even. He also said that once you are

married, barring a one or two dreams in the beginning, you never

feel in the dream also yourself to be bachelor. This is the power of

acceptance. Your acceptance " Mere to Girdhar Gopal , Doosara na koi "

has to be that solid. The moment you do so, instantly, you BECOME

DHARMATMA (Gita 9:31). Your all actions then change the course.

 

Frankly, it is as easy and as quick as that ! If you cant be that

firm then aeons may pass ( In fact they have passed for us before

today) but we will be no where near that element.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gurdasaniji,

 

According to me, while we all revere Swamiji, there is no need to

follow his words blindly. Also in my opinion, there is no need to

hesitate in questioning his statement. The main reason for that is

that it is not possible for us to understand what may have been the

context or what was his real motive in making that statement. As far

as I understand the only motive of Swamiji to make such a statement

could be to encourage us, because it is generally accepted and

understood that 'God Realisation' is difficult and takes time.

Besides, despite reading characters of so many bhaktas, I have not

found one who would satisfy the statement made by Swamiji. I can

also state that I had the opportunity to request Swamiji to give one

example indicating God Realisation is easy and instant.

Unfortunately, according to me, I did not get an answer, leading me

to believe that statement must have been made only to encourage the

sadhaks.

 

Further, it needs to be clearly understood that this is a forum

of " Sadhaks " and not " Siddhas " . So each sadhak will be able to

advise only on the basis of his own experience and knowledge. It is

also possible that a sadhak may advise something that may even be

misleading. We need to screen the same and not take that as the last

word on the subject. I say this because in one case some sadhaks

even considered " Naam Smaran " (without understading what 'smaran' -

which is different from mere chanting - means) as useless and

compared it with a tape recorder or a parrot, who will not reach

salvation. I quote such discourses as below

 

" Bhajan is not " tota ratan " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. "

 

" Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not

bhajan. It is an action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and

runs after the mind. He accepts suggestion of mind that realisation

is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom. Self becomes

indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a

machine rarely makes a mistake). "

 

We can only take pity on such sadhak's unfortunate understanding

(but at the same time respecting their right to believe in same). We

need to make an honest attempt to practice what appeals to us.

 

Notwithstanding what I have said above, please note that the

starting point of the journey is first to have desire to achieve

god. The duration of the journey depends on the intensity of that

desire. As far as the question of sadhana is concerned, there are

three alternatives - Gyan Yog, Karma Yog and Bhakti Yog. One can not

say which suits an individual the most. Best for an individual is to

read Gitaji and decide what appeals to him the most and start that

practice. Please note that Gitaji is a live granth. It answers the

questions of the sadhak like one would expect from a guru.

 

One more important thing I would like to point out. Mass discourses

are for masses and not individuals. When a sadhak starts sadhana, it

will be important for him to seek the path that suits him most

according to his personal inclination. This always must be on one to

one basis.

 

Now comes the question as to how to find a Guru. This is a very

tricky question because now a days there are gurus by the dozen

looking for shishyas. Hence, let us start with 'Krishnam Vande Jagat

Gurum'.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

 

jai latiyal

 

In English

 

We are stuck on one point and that is, nothing can happen without

practice. We therefore think that Self Realization is also through

practice, but in reality, this divine knowledge is not through one's

effort and practice. Through effort / practice we reach a new state

(condition), not enlightenment. Nor can detach from the world. This

point on needs to inquire deeply into it. God realization is

something that is instant. Just like when you want to walk on a

rope, it needs lot of practice, but 2 and 2 are what? For that it

does not require lot of effort. There is no effort in that. There

is a major difference between effort/practice and

realization/experiential knowledge. There is no experiential

knowledge through effort, but a new condition is created. God

Realization is beyond a particular state/condition. Realization of

essential Self is beyond practice/effort. Realization of Self

(Essence) is not the name of a particular state, because wherever

there is a particular state / condition, there is also a

progression, an ending. Realization is beyond a state and also

beyond a period of time (i.e. with ending), in fact it is beyond

both and it is also not lacking in stillness (esthirtaah)

 

[shivkumar naravat]

 

In Hindi

Hum logo ke ander ek baat jachi hu-e hein ki her ek kam

 

Abhayash se ho ta hein. Tatavgyan bhi abhayash se ho ga vastav

mein tatavgyan abhayash se nahi hota Abhayash se ek naye ishtithi

[condition] banthi hein. [bodh nahi hota]

 

Sansar se shambadh viched na hi ho ta. Yeh bhahut manna karne ki

bhat hein. Parmatma-prapti tatkal ho ne wali vashtu hein Jese rassi

ke uper chalna ho tho abhyash karna padega. Kintu do or do kitna

hotha hein iskey li ye abhyash ki jarurat nahi hogi. Is mai abhyash

ho ta hi nahi. Abhyash or anubhav mein bada anter hein abhyash se

anubhav nahi hota. Balki ek naye shtithi banti hein. Parmatamatatva

ishtithi se atit hein.

 

Swaroop ka bodh abhayash se sidh ho ne wali chij hein hi naien

abhayash se naye ishtithi banti hein jab ki tatav ishtithi se atit

hein. Tatav bodh ki si ishtithi ka name nahi hein jaha ishtithi ho

ji vaha gatti bhi hogi yeh niyam hein. Tatav ishtithi or gatti do no

se atit hein tatav mein na ishtithi hein. Na gatti hein na

eshthirta hein.

 

[shivkumar naravat]

 

---------------------------

My dandavats to all in this fourm,

I am very surprised that one sadhak has stated that one can

achieve God through right thought, karma, and meditation. Please

explain, as I cannot understand how this can be true. Karma,

which is pertaining to good and bad reactions on a material

platform, is a thing of the material world...not the transcendental

world....how can we achieve that which is beyond this world simply

by acting on a karmic level? Or good thought, the Supreme

Absolute Truth can be achieved by good thought? What if my good

thought is killing animals and feeding them to starving

people.....thinking that I am doing good to feed the starving?

There are many people in the world who think like this.....they have

absolutely no sense that to kill animals is bad thought....so, the

point is, who sets the starndard for good thought? If we say Krsna

does, why should we not also accept that He states one should accept

a guru, and render loving service? Why only accept part of what He

says?

Please forgive me if my words cause any offense....I am asking

for clarification of statements made....if there is deeper

understanding that I don't know, to substantiate the claim that God

can be achieved through karma, good deeds, and meditation, please

kindly present some scriptural evidence. Even in regard to

meditation...some say that if you meditate on a chair, a rock,

anything at all, you will achieve God....perhaps there will be some

appreciation for the power of God to create these things...but how

will that type of meditation give understanding of the Personality

of Godhead? If the answer is that one must take direction as to how

to meditate, what type of meditation, well......then one is turning

to another as guru to give guidance in meditation It is unavoidable.

 

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

----------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

dear divine souls a human being howmuch ever

follows all the rituals and divine practices of praying god only

comes from the outer experiences ie what other people say about

god.Did u ever imagined that rituals and dhram is what u do.This has

been clearly explained by lord Krishna that what right decision ur

mind takes to resolve a issue and which satisfies everyone is what

dharma.

Lord says that i dont want any thing in lumpsum from u " Only Patram,

Pushpam " given to me with utmost devotion makes me feel more happy.

So dear souls it is ur own thoughts and ur own feelings for god

which will help u to attain god realisation. As said by Lord ur all

my ansh so ansh can never be seprated from anshi ie lord so the

divine feeling that i am his and he is mine and the rest is an

illusion will surely lead u to ur ultimate goal to reach god.

This body doesnt belong to u.This is 101% true this has been

discussed in our previous discoussions.For example take any

electricity equipment example light once the switch is on we get the

lighting and as soon as the switch is off we experiece darkness why?

because it was the source of electricity through which we were

benefited so far as soon as it is over we are out of source.So as

dear once our Spiritual switch is on we expericne gyan in every good

and bad happenings and once we forget our Lord our existence agyan

captures our mind. So dear keep on thinking lord keep on chanting his

name with " Shraddha and Patience " .One day my dear god father himself

will come to u and say " O son know come to me i had been waiting for

u " .

 

So never think of fruit just keep on chanting " Jai Shree Krishna " .

He is there in every aspect of ur life

He is there in everything u do.

He is u and u are in him.

This is what called Sadhna dear. wait wait and keep in waiting

like shabriji one day he has to come to his dear ones.

With lots of best wishes

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Rakshita Mehra

--------------------

No Guru can may take you to God. You have to do it yourself through

right thought and karma and through meditation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------

my dandavat pranams to all in this forum

In regard to question at hand, I would ask, isn't it true that by

coming to this forum, looking for answers, accepting truth (or

analyzing statements as untruth), we are searching for guru? We are

learning, by associating with various persons, what is their

character, their basis for speaking, their mood. Isn't it true that

we are looking for inspiration from a person, whom, through their

association, can uplift and direct us? Guru is not a bad

thing.....bad thing is when an individual claims to be guru, but does

not live life solely for the satisfaction of his/her own guru, and

God. Also bad thing is when prospective disciple (all of us) are not

willing to become discerning students. Too eager to make oneself a

blind follower, for whatever reason. To ask questions and be

hesitant to give one's heart is an intelligent quality....disciples

should not be foolish. Then they will be cheated. Nor should they

be blind to the instructions of shastra....wherein it is emphasized,

(Gita 4.34... " Just try to learn the truth by approaching a bona fide

spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service

unto him. A self realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because

he has seen the truth " ....Scripture states that diksa guru is one,

but siksha guru may be many. One who is already elevated in

knowledge can take instruction from every situation, from every

person, even from animals, plants, insects. He is always

learning...but this make take some time to understand. so, in the

interum, if one needs a specific person to call guru, this is, in the

opinion of the scripture, very good path. By developing the serving

mood, one will grow in one's heart. EVEN if the person selected is

not on the topmost level of love of God, (uttama adhikari) if the

disciple/student has a mood of love, of service, etc....he/she will

understand that " let me simply be grateful for as far as this person

can take me.....if I see ungodly qualities, let me not fault find,

but try to keep searching for inspiration....always with gratitude in

my heart for whatever this one or that one has given me. Scripture

has also told, sometimes siksha guru (instructing spiritual master)

is more prominent in life of disciple....sometimes diksha guru

(initiating spiritual master ) is more prominent......the essence is

to constantly be praying to the Supreme Lord, " please let me find

someone with deep realization, high level of love for you, whom I can

serve and associate with. " True guru will never demand money, he

will only inspire others to give, if they are so moved from within,

for projects such as temples, book distribution, food distribution,

etc. Never money for himself to live lavishly.

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

-------------------------

 

 

Priy Sadhaks,

In Bhagwad Gitaji Ch.8/14...

Krishnji says I am easly available to them who continuously remembers

me in every aspect of life.

Ch.9/33-34 Clearly inidicates come in my refuge, talk to me, submit

every action to me, remember me in this life of human which has

nothing but

sorrow, full of uncertainity.

Clearly invites in Ch.18/66. Come to my refuge I will take care of

every dharm,

karm & mukti. The problem is we dont rely, believe on gods words, on

the

contrary in this life we easily believe on anyboby who seems to be

of our

concern. I ask even without believing,

god takes care then what a beautifully blissfully will be the

situation that we

start believing god in every smallest act of our life. for instance

we are

breathing It is due to gods grace

we can digest what we eat and all parts of our body are functioning

well It is due to gods grace. Even we can feel our heart beats and

thank god

for this worderfully instrument in our body.

like all these start from smallest & we wonder we start remembering

god in every act in due course. Why then god realisation is

difficult?

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

The answer to Q3 is in the gita:

 

abhyasa yoga uktena

chetasa nanya gamina

paramam purusham divyam

yati parthanu chintayan

 

Chatper 8.10(I think)

 

KKM

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

 

According to me the process of attaining realization takes time Not

quickly. Buddha toiled for years. One Vaishnavite Guru Ramanujam

took years to

get to know how to say, " Om Namo Narayanaya " . All Alwars, Nayanmars,

Bakthas

spents years full time to see Bagavan.

Tukaram in his abang sings, " Bagavan YOU are not realized for yogies

doing tapas many years, YOU are not realizable parama purushas, but

Bagavan your

grace showered on me to day'. I am not discouraging.

Tukaram was nobody other than Sant Namadev.

Bagavan in Geetha says, for one reach me by sadanas, may take few

births, but if I (Bagavan) makes sankalpa, I (Bagavan) can uplift

one in the

same birth. That is quickest.

Sadanas leads to Bakthi and simultaneously gives occult powers to

which many gurus or sadaks becomes pray, as such it takes several

births to

reach HIM. Only when Bakthi matures it turns to Niskama Prema

Bakthi. This stage

Bagavan is behind Baktha.

Example:

Baktha Gora, Snena Nayak, Chota Mela, Sant Sakubai etc in Panderpur

where Panduranga literally worked in their house and was with them.

They were

not regular temple goer. In Tirumala Hills, where Bagavan went to

their place of

stay leaving sanctum sanctorum, was THat Ram Baba and Malayala

swamy. By reading

these great men history, one can get shortest way to reach HIM,

because they

showed certain principles on which Bagavan gets closer.

Gurus are there. But Sat Guru is difficult. Who is Sat Guru? Adi

Sankara says, The one who speaks only of God realization, has only

one dress to

change, goes to Biksha NOT more than five houses, does not keep

anything for

next day, does not get accustomed to one place, NO dislikes and

likes. The same

thing Bagavan says as

Guna Theethan BG. Sat Guru comes to one who` s mind and intellect

(Chitta,

Buddhi and Manas) are pure. When that purity takes place Pancha

gosas, Pancha

Pranas automatically becomes pure, thereby

making change in whole body system. This type of person when walks

his radiation of Satvikness has effect of 12 Km radius, thereby one

can see a

loin running behind pray just stops remaining silent. Examples:

Swamy Narayana,

Adi Sankara, Buddha, and our Bagavan

Sri Krishna. Simplest Bakthi: Do pooja and offering with care and

love. Get

fragrant flowers, chop off stem/thorny branches, make garland as

soft as

possible to the extent if you wear it for

hours it should be comfortable and pleasant. Offer fruits nicely chop

into pieces taking care to see whether they taste good and has no

slightest

fungus marks, offer banana like they serve to you in five star hotel

with stem

neatly cut, sing song what you know with full

mind, shed two drop tears.

Example: Mother Maha Lakshmi came as Sri Andal to earth to do this to

Sri Vishnu. Sabari In Ramayan did this. Hanuman did this. Some

Bakthas of recent

years did this. Quick realization; IS only surrender to Bagavan

(Saranagathi)

When one surrenders, he will

not find fault with anybody or anything, (half way through) he will

mingle in Sat Sangh, apart from daily routine he will not see TV,

mix in worldly

matters, spend time in talking etc, Example: Kabir Doss was once had

guests

Gyneswar and Namdev late night. He

rushed to get some flour (Mava) for Roti. The provision shop wala

asked for

money to buy them. Kabir had No money then and asked for loan. Shop

wala refused

as Kabir said he had nothing at that time. Shop wala asked Kabir to

lend his

beautiful wife for Mava and Ghee.

Kabir did so and took Mava. But shop keeper closing the doors with

Kabir` s

wife, 2 police jawans knocked the doors, beaten shop wala and took

kabir wife to

her house door step. When Kabir in dismay asked how she came, she

described that

2 person matching to Sri Rama and Lakshmana. Kabir wife was blessed

first with Sri Rama Dharshan than Kabir. Jayadevar while doing

Abishek to small idol of Sri Krishna at home, his wife Padmavathi

use to say, " do slowly and give gap of pouring milk on Krishna as

the child (Krishna) may suffer suffocation. " For This Manasa Bakthi

and love, Bagavan gave Dharshan first to Padmavathi.

Dear Sadaks to think and say of Bagavan time and words has NO limit.

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

ORIGINAL DETAIL QUESTION

Priy Sadhak vrand,

 

I have been with this group for quite a long time and have witnessed

quite a questions.

I was contemplating on Swamiji's messages that God's attainment is

very easy, simple and quick. Today when people have complicated

lives & minds, they think that God's attainment (realization) is

very complicated and only Gurus can do it for them. Resultant is so

many said Gurus have emerged like mushrooms and have started their

business of making God attainment possible.

 

QUESTION 1:

I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of bhakti

and means of realization by this powerful medium of group

 

Raja Gurdasani

 

QUESTION 2:

How can man very quickly attain realization of Paramaatma?

In Hindi

MANUSHYA KO JALDHI PARMATAMA PRAPTI KAI SE HO?

(RAMCHANDRA)

 

QUESTION 3:

Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

 

KYA SUGAMTAAH POORVAK, ABHYAS SE BHODH HO SAKTA HEIN ?

(RAMCHANDRA)

 

 

 

--------------------------

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4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

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However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

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12. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

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bracketed wherever possible.

 

13. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

[Guest guest]

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and

spiritual practices ?

(Original Question in details at the end of page

 

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

The realization of the essential element (tattva) Paramatma (Supreme

Consciousness) is not a subject of abhyaas (study, practice). Even if for a

split second, one desires this element (tattva), then at that very moment, the

work will be done. If you want to take the long and winding road, do so. Even

Paramatma will not stop you. The very second that you accept by the Self (inner

being) that " everything is only Paramatma and Paramatma alone is everything, "

then you and Paramatma will be one. Shri Shraddhey Swamiji's points are

entirely and perfectly nothing but the Truth. One will realize this through

anubhav (experiential knowledge). Vineet Sarvottam

 

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Can we say like this------- Oh Bagavan for the mere love on YOU that

you gave me, YOU are giving me everything and looking after me as a

mother looks after her child. There is no such thing that I am

doing. YOU make me do everything that is good for my Mukthi. What

have I done to be praise worthy, other than just saying YOUR Namas.

YOU make my lips move, throat sing on YOU and YOU give all benefits

to me, for the nothing I have done.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji has explained in Gita 5:16 about abhyaas and whether it can

lead to God Realization - He has said in Gita Prabodhani (Gita

5:16) that -

 

Ignorance is destroyed, on giving importance to discrimination

(vivek), ignorance is not destroyed by abhyaas (spiritual

practices, study, repetition etc.). Through practices (abhyaas), the

relationship with the inert continues to remain; because practices

(abhyaas) cannot ever take place, without taking the support of

inert body. Realization of essential Truth (tattva jnana), is not

through inertness, but through giving up of inertness.

 

The question is how long does it take to give up something? Split second ?

Instantly ? How long did it take us to recognize that snake is only a rope,

once the light was shown on the rope or someone said it is a rope ? Only an

instant !!!

 

Ram Ram

Meera Das

 

------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Sadhanaji's answers to sadhak questions on " time element in God

realization " are appropriate. She requested our answers also, I take

it.

I am sharing one such answer: Terms such as " quick means " , " easy

methods " , " various paths " etc to God Realization may be employed by

Saints and Sages of different times to inspire/entice mankind to

seek God. In their wisdom, this is the real issue facing us.

They must know very well that upon Realization of God or Self-

realization, these terms don't mean much! Then, why do I need to

discuss these terms now? Let us see.

" Quick " indicates " time interval from assumed start time of sadhana "

which is conceptually expressed as thought. It cannot be our real

experience! Whereas Realization is strictly experiential, taking

place in all of us NOW. Experience and " Experiential " are two

different things to me. Experience is object related perception and

takes place in time-space as thought in mind(e. g. I see a tree.

Note here " I " is assumed subject, body-mind and tree, the assumed

object, none is real), while Realization is not such objective

experience. Realization is Subject knowing Itself, apperception. It

is " experiencing " itself without subject-object duality " ! That is

why it is labelled experiential because it is always pure

Awareness/Consciousness/Being/Divine on which all objective

experiences are superimposed as thoughts in mind. Thus That which is

real, Awareness, escapes our attention(from being experiential) and

that which is conceptual is taken as real.

 

Thus for me, the above knowledge becomes useful now to be totally

free from such terms and allow God to take care of what God will!

Let Him bring Guru or no Guru, quick or not so quick, path of

devotion or inquiry, or selfless karmas, I remain ready to seek. I

am not undermining the use of such terms either if they help to

inspire us to seek God.

 

Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

 

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

 

A: O God, I am yours and you are mine. O Thakur, whatever I do, I

do it for You & You only. Haey Bholenath, whatever I get in return,

with inner joy and understanding, I accept it as your prasad. Other

than You my Divine whom shall I depend? Mean every single one of

these sentences, mere repeation doesn't help. The basis of bhakti

is complete surrender, nothing else. (BG 18:66)

 

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

 

A: It all depends on one's purity of heart, annihilation of ego, and

level of surrender. Again I would like to point sloka BG 18:66 -

sarva dharmaan parityajya... If your natural inclination is not

towards bhakti & you are simply an intellectual being, one can

attain realization faster through the means of gyaan/knowledge

yoga. So many time our intellect itself becomes an hurdle as we

can't seem to come out of applying intellectual logic and God is

beyond logic. If ones inclination is more towards selfless service,

one can attain realization through this means too. Please note,

these are all means and not the end itself. All means help create

an environment for one to reach the end but the end needs to be

realized beyond these means!

 

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and spiritual practices ?

 

A: Repeated study and spiritual practices help create an inner

environment for realization as these are nothing but means and not

the end. All means help one divert their attention from outside to

inside, increase awareness and bring one pointed concentration.

However, realization can happen beyond these means, at any moment,

not necessarily while reading scripture or during spiritual

practices! Those who go through this experience know what they have

understood, there is no doubt remain in their head, there is nothing

remain for them to know any more and there is nothing remain for

them to do anymore. All these happens only as a part of Divine

Will. I would highly recommend BG Chapter 2, read, contemplate,

implement, be peaceful, calm, still, may be in this stillness one

can recognize their eternal union with the Divine.

 

Hope this helps.

humble regards.

always at Thy Lotus Feet

 

Manjula Patel

-------------------------

Dear Sadhak,

How quick is quick ?

Right NOW.

Swamiji says-Right Now you can know HIM.

 

how long did it take for you to detach yourself

from the temporary / unreal?

It never happen in time, it happens with acceptance of exclusive

dependence on HIM only.I am God's and God is Mine. He is the Real,

and so called I is temporary.

and how did you know when you had done it?

No way to know it. No one will come with a flag in hands and say-

Hey look , I know myself now. When there is Light there is no

darkness, so when I know who am I, I just know who am I. And I stop

itendifying myself with what I am not.

 

When we have our own answer and we think that is the right answer we

donot accept any other answers. I know you have yr own answer, I

would highly appreciate if you can share that answer with all of

us...

 

With lots of Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

---------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

I hope the below text from Sadhak-Sanjivani (page 1603 in English and

page 939 in Hindi) will throw light in regards to what a sadhak

should do.

-----

A sadhak should perform spiritual practice(worship, meditation etc)

certainly, because there is no other activity superior to it. But he

should not think that God will be realized by spiritual practice,

because by thinking so, he will be proud and pride is a stumbling

block to God-realization. He can be realized, by His grace. He cannot

be bought, by any means (spiritual practice). Spiritual practice

roots

out evils of attachment and desire, for the world, which are

obstacles

to God-realization. These obstacles have been created by the sadhak

himself. Therefore, when a sadhak wants to root out those evils, from

his heart, by God's grace, they are rooted out.

 

Generally sadhaks assume that God can be realized (through the

purification of mind), in the same way by making efforts, the worldly

objects are required. But in fact, it is not so, because even the

most

virtuous actions such as penance etc., are transitory, and have a

beginning and an end. So how can the perishable bear an imperishable

fruit? Through penance and renunciation etc., the assumed affinity

for

matter, (the world and body), is renounced. Having renounced this

assumed affinity, ever-attained God, Who pervades everywhere is

realized- memory for Him is aroused and recognition is gained.

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/Sad

hakSanjeevn\

i/main.html

 

Thanks,

Varun P. Paprunia

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Oye No Jee ! I meant only " conscience " and not " consciousness " !

Conscience is badly needed by all unlightened ones Jee! I knew you

will not grasp the term and hence put in bracket a clue. But still

not grasped ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

" Ashaswathmenam suviroodhmoolam " - How solid baseless illusion/maya

gets rooted within ! Dear Sadhaks !!

 

What " projection " ? Who " hunted " for that? It is all in the mind

only, no where else. Alas ! These minds and egos - they always bring

into existence what is never in existence ! Now explain relevance

thereof ! Quick !!

 

Never draw any conclusions as to who is enlightened and who is not?

Remember first ego has to be eliminated or purified or changed and

then " consciousness " referred by you comes into existence ! A one

percent shift in ego level is more than enough to show you the way !

 

Question you asked Sadhanaji must be first realised by you. How do

you know? " Projections of mind " are called " hallucinations " also

when they get into " dancing " rhythm of the sort you are in ! I hope

that rhythm has not yet manifested on the streets !

 

Did not I specifically say that world appears exactly as we are ! We

can perceive another only as exactly as we are ! Forgotten so fast.

No Child forgets that fast!

 

What was wrong when we were 13 ? Let us learn to retain childhood in

us ! There lies the bravery ! What sincerity? - " How quick is

quick " ? Is this sincerity? What have we done while maturing except

remembering as to how we were when 13?

 

What " gleaned " from this pious group ? Is what you wrote to Pratap

Bhaiyya all that was gleaned from this pious group? Satsanga is

a " chat " - is it ? Everyone needs a dictionary ! Which level of

sincerity is this? Mind is dancing within ! Mind, projecting only !

Projections ! Captivated by Maya ! No one else is dancing !! Only

the brain and ego are dancing - believe me on that ! Hold the child,

the non existent dance also will appear divine and natural.

 

" Bhakti is not for everybody and not particularly fast " ! Very good

Jee ! Alas ! Then for whom the " bhakti " is Jee !!

 

Let us remember being a student/sadhak/child as it helps more in

these issues. Let us learn to stay put. Here all are different. Let

us learn to gel.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Salutations to all

 

Adrien ! It is ok that one manifests into many. But your role is to

be positioned into the " many " and explain them from that view point.

If you are a shade better than that is the role which you must take.

Where is the sense in telling and keep telling " there is no man " !

How there is no man?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

 

 

Om Namah Shivay

 

Adrien Meyers ! If there is no man and no woman then to whom you are

saying " Love Avasa " ? To whom are you addressing messages? Why? One

needs to step down from a perceived/imaginary level, so as to be

of help to others. Sadhaks in this group are either men or women.

They are here to get wisdom.

 

Loomad Chand

---------------------------

 

Q3: OF COURSE NOT

John Forth

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

And God is necessary for that desire to exist.

The desire for God realisation does not come from man but from the

Divine itself.

The concept that one is a man disappears when this realisation takes

place. All is ALWAYS the Divine itself only, there is no man!

Love Avasa

 

Adrian Meyers

--------------------------

 

Shashikala

I guess i felt like you in my past, when i was 13.

loved all the jees, what a humble post! sorry, did i detect an ever

so tiny, insy winsy, slight hint of irritation?

I think the term you were hunting for was 'projection'?

You also seemed to have confounded conscience with consciousness

which of course are quite different.

ravi bakhshi

 

Sadhana

How quick is quick? how long did it take for you to detach yourself

from the temporary / unreal?

and how did you know when you had done it?

ravi bakhshi

 

Dear Pratap, thanks for your reply.

 

The example I gave of dancing etc in the street singing, causing

general annoyance to all, crying in a self delusional state

(labelled as Bhakti), or of saying how wretched one's state is, were

gleaned from this very discussion group. not ones i cooked up. The

vedantic viewpoint of non existence of ego in the light of self

knowledge is already well known. We can therefore assume that since

no one on this chat group is enlightened, therefore every one has a

fully functional ego due to the existance of maya.

 

The discussion topic is: Easy and Quick Means of God Realization.

Can Abhyaas (Practice) lead to God

 

The point i am making is that Bhakti is not for everybody, and not

particularly fast. Though factors such as desire, doubtlessly

supply an impetous towards a goal, in instances such as raman

maharishi, not desire, but sincerity of purpose in his action held

the key. And that is my point.

Whatever you do, be sincere.

Ravi bakhshi

 

-----------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Raja Bhaiyya ! Tussi great ho Jee ! Oye Lovely Jee !! Bhaj le Shri

Raam !!

 

" Charo Ved dhandhor ke , ant kahoge Raam !

 

To Rajjab pahale kaho, itne hi main kaam "

 

Says Saint Rajjabji Maharaj:

 

After searching/studying all the Vedas etc , in the end you will

conclude and say " Raam Raam Raam " !! O Rajjab, then why don't you

say " Raam Raam Raam " now itself and be over with all efforts ?? !!

 

Tussi Great Ho Jee !!

 

Indeed , how much time one wastes in relying upon mind, taming it,

thinking ? What Guru ?? " Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum " ! Bhaj le Shri

Raam ! What efforts? Bhaj le Shri Raam ! What Deeds? Bhaj le Shri

Raam!! What meditation ? Bhaj le Shri Raam !!

 

" Tore dwaar khada Bhagwaan , bhakta bhar le re Jholi "

 

On your doorsteps(tongue) there is God standing ! Why don't you get

fulfilled ?

 

Jee !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Who is to look inside and who is to connect with the soul? Inside or

outside is Para Brahmam. Example: Sant Gnaneswar made a buffalow

speak which most of you know. Inside and outside that Para Brahmam

connected Gnaneswar and buffalow and the Brahmin Samag

What help another person can give in some one looking inside?

Clarity in enlightment.

Can eyes be borrowed? Eyes, heart, lungs are borrowed and

transplanted. Who keeps these organs alive, even after removing from

body - That Paramathuma.

 

What kind of Guru is necessary for a child to run into the lap of

his Mom? Instinct given by Bagavan until age 12. Any act of the

child upto 12 does not come in Paapa or Puniya. Ref: Vidhura Neethi-

Upanishads.

 

What kind of efforts can be needed to achieve that element which is

in everybody, at all times, in all places ?

 

A thurst in you? A desire in you? What else is necessary in

realising God except desire?

NISKAMA PREMA BAKTHI. Thrust can fail, desire can fail when tested

as in case of so many saints. NOT BAKTHI. A digambar (nude) sanyasin

speaking to Bhagavan Shiva asked Bhagavan , " What was the delay in

taking him to HIS abode " . Bhagavan said that the sanyasin had the

thought, " I am digamber free from desires and have only desire for

GOD " .

That " I' " Me " are the problem.

Regret If this is hurting someone.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Hari Shankarji. Who is to look inside and who is to connect with the

soul? What help another person can give in some one looking inside?

Can eyes be borrowed? What if some body is not able to find a Guru?

Is it essential ? If yes, then how God is " samam sarveshu

bhuteshu " ? What kind of Guru is necessary for a child to run into

the lap of his Mom? What kind of efforts can be needed to achieve

that element which is in everybody, at all times, in all places ?

Can any Guru cause a hunger in you? A thurst in you? A desire in

you? What else is necessary in realising God except desire?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Priy Sadhak ji,

X Y Z ko chhoro jee. Ram Ram bolo jee.

" Leave X, Y, Z Jee. Simply say Ram Ram Jee "

 

" Madhuram Madhuram madhuraadhipate Madhuram Madhuram "

 

" Everything about the ruler of Sweetness and delight is Sweet and

Delightful. "

 

Rama shri rama,

Rama shree Rama,

This is what Swamiji kept chanting.

Lovely jee

Ram Ram Jee.

Raja Gurdasani

------------------------------

 

To attain God you have to look within yourself and meditate to

connect with the soul. It is best to find a Guru who will show you

the way. Not everyone is a Buddha to get enlightenment through

meditation on his own.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

You are right, Pratapji ! This time , certainly , on the fact

that " mind recalls " ! Believe me- this creature can never act

in " present " ! How can an element which is " non existent " (BG 2:16)

can ever act in " existence " . (present) ???

 

Mind can only travel in " non existence " - in future or in past -

never in " present " !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Sadhanaji ! You are absolutely right, Jee . One can't grasp the

reality ( sat) by taking shelter of mind (of asat), shelter of that

element which is ever changing/never stagnant !

 

It is a law that unless you are " x " yourself, you just can't

perceive " x " in another !! An infallible law ! A little known law

but still an accurate law, Jee !

 

We all must appreciate that we all felt like him, Ravi Jee, in the

past. It is only a matter of positioning/ timing and the control of

ever changing mood over us, or our control over that creature -

mind/intellect/ego etc- reacting at an " x " time say in a " y " or " z "

manner- but imparting us a feeling of the type which a mirror in

our daily routine life imparts( 100 percent opposite , something

actually existing in us but appearing to us as if it is existing in

another) !! Yes Jee ! Yes !! Come On ! (Argue , here Jee , if there

is left something to argue upon ! Bravery lies here !)

 

What else? Fact however is that " Self " is the key ! " Conscience " is

the key-(Ever heard this term Jee?) !! What never changes is the

answer !!! Alas- how much time " simplicity " can take to arrive, once

we are in grip of that machine, called mind , which has 270 million

neurons functioning electronically at any given time ?? Are not even

270 aeons too little to understand- no as per me- but yes as per the

slave of that machine/creature - Jee ?? Bolo Jee !!

 

Raam ! Raam!! Raam !!!

 

" Disorder " is the order of the day not the poor " order " - When

mind/ego/intellect are on driver's seat ! Poor " Self " Jee ( Wonder,

Jee , what is that term ? Mind/ego/intellect/body that's all - says

Raviji, Jee- Naturally) !!

 

Anyway ! This is how the world, the challenge, our role as sadhak

is !!! We must acquit ourselves suitably!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I am making some observations on Mike Keenorji's observations on

right mind set for giant spiritual step and the role of practice to

gain higher awareness, in reference to Sadhaka post " what does it

mean to know one's self " by Swamiji. (I think that's the reference).

At the outset I want to tell, I am deeply touched by his recent

posts, particularly the one(in my words) where one feels suddenly

out of no where, oneness with everything around, and one disppears

as though. Nothing but Divinity, Love without and within! I can

relate to it!

 

This kind of experience leaves you worldless at the moment and mind

just recalls afterward. Mind cannot be present when experiencing is

happening in the timeless zone, but can only recall as after-

thoughts.

This kind of experiencing happens generally in the natural settings,

in the vastness of sky like open space. Consciousness seems to

liberate from petty little things of this world and embrasses Itself

with Itself, Its fullness-Bliss! It feels its infinitude!

Elements of mysticism, or sufi like vision flows through the heart

as echoed in Mike's words! Nothing matters anymore!

When one burns with desire to know one's true being, one sees things

differently than before! Everything reminds one of Beloved, face of

God.

Isn't this the mind-set of a Bhakta for Bhagwan, or Gyani for TRUTH

or Karma-Yogi for service? Isn't this the Higher Awareness inviting

Itself in?

Namaskar..

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhak,

You(sadhak Raviji) have given examples of such cases who renounce

the world in great devotion. But our scriptures are filled with

examples of people who were realised but stay in the world and

performed their duties. Example of Raja Janak(father of SitaMa) is

well known.

Our God took human forms to set examples how to lead wonderful

worldly life while remaining detached from inside.Can we learn that

from Lord Rama's and Krishna's life ? Krishna said in Gitaji that we

need to live in the world like lotus flower lives in the water.

 

One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the

results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by worldy actions, as

the lotus leaf is untouched by water.GItaji Ch5:10

We just need to detach our selves from the temporary/unreal and

surrender to HIM. Thats the only quickest way/sadhna I know .

 

With lots of love,

A sadhika

Sadhana Karigar

---------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This addresses the issues raised by Ravi Bakhshiji.

In my understanding, burning desire has nothing to do with dancing

or not dancing in the street nor it means shedding out

responsibility to family. It means to have intense desire for Truth

or God, to be ready to put one's life on the line if it came to

that. At this stage Sadhaka has already discovered that no personal

desires for objects can ever fulfill one's empty self from his/her

own experience. Thus burning desire comes from God or Truth, being

impersonal as if to liberate from false limitations/bondage/beliefs

rooted in individality. Such pursuits of God may be unique or like

that of Mirabai or Ramkrishna without being any one of them.

Idea of giving up Ego is useless, because it doesn't even exist in

the first place! To see that which is false (sense of " me " ) as such

without a shadow of doubt is enough and it gets droppedon on its

own.

Ego is a strong deep rooted conditioning from childhood onward

resulting in the belief as separate individual-me. Upon

questioning " me " , it will be found to be bundle of desires, fears,

likes and dislikes, pleasures/pains acting/taken as " me "

unconsciously. What is hard is to see is ego in this way that keeps

it going through the life. Ego on the part of saints is

functional/label so when called by names they can answer. Saints and

Sages are Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

In all humility, I can say this understanding makes one remain calm

even in a situations like a crowded train with loud singing going

on. Rather than resisting the noise or any adversity for that

matter, such situations will remind him/her God or to do meditation.

Namaskar....

 

Pratap Bhatt

 

---------------------------

Hari Om

 

Brother Mike ! What is at the alter of your heart is your own. That

is never failing. No rituals, activity, austerity, karma can reach

Him for He is higher than all of them. You can reach Him only by

Love ! You can reach Him by only " feeling " Him to be your " beloved " -

that is " mineness " with Him. Provide that mineness an exclusivity,

as the " only who is mine " - rest all is automatic. Summit is not far.

 

It is a law that Love generates out of mineness only. Love increases

multifold as mineness attains exclusivity- naturally, effortlessly,

ceaselessly- 24x7 !!

 

As you will notice at the end of that surprise short story referred

for deliberations of Sadhaks by Michael Hagen - the first step is 'I

am no body' and second step is 'relinquishing the shelter of

rational mind'. You are through that. Provide finality to the

thrill of " Riding the tiger " - by

riding 'fearlessly', 'doubtlessly', 'grieflessly' and " worrylessly'

and by never getting down or by never thinking as to what if you

have to get down ! That completes the 'surrender' !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

---------------------------

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to message of Shirinji ! Right you are ! But first you

should

establish " mineness " with Paramatma.. Naam Japa thereafter ONLY

becomes " super

express " . Nevertheless, it is always a great karma !

 

" HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI, TULSI TAJI KUSAMAAJ "

 

First " become " of God and then chant His name and renounce evil

company.

 

Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was a great supporter of " Naam Japa " (

chanting

God's name continuously/repeatedly ) - but He invariably insisted

more on

" mineness " with Him. Once you have " become " of God- every activity

is " for Him "

only. I ask you a question. A married traditional Indian Lady never

utters the

name of her husband ! Agreed? Is she not of her Hubby ? ( Here, I am

not

discouraging " naam japa " - believe me - I am rather emphasising

on " mineness " -

both me and my Beloved Wife do naam japa together, quite often ).

You " become "

of Him first, then if you do naam japa- you are through- faster than

when you

merely do naam japa !

 

Gita too insists for " mineness " , so do all great Saints and realised

souls. When

you have established mineness - exclusive mineness- with Him, even

if you are

not able to do naam japa for some time, you are still worshipping

Him through

your deeds. Bhajan then is automatic.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

---------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

I just thought I would air the subject, of austerities, as I have

read a lot

from Sadhaks on various practices. 'Mindset', I don't have a better

word for the

removal of the 'Barrier'.

 

You know Vyasji, I do not consider this body as mine, to falsely

believe I am this body, since 'I' have existed for countless

lifetimes. Thus the apparent 'I' is constant, but the mind body ego

cannot be. Therefor the soul has been embodied many times.(Without

doubt).

 

You see I never practiced any form of ritual, worship, or yoga , I

just wanted the truth without reservation.

Yes I was/am a meditator, I was drawn to it without conscious

thought.

 

Sometimes one has to,(using a martial arts term), 'Ride the Tiger',

i.e. let Bahgwan take the reins. One has to shut down the rational

mind, and trust implicitly in the Divine outcome.

I think the only worship I have is for the 'Divine Beloved', at the

alter of my heart.

I trust some will understand what is implicit in the last paragraph.

 

With Respect and Divine Love.

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------------

 

Intense desire is not for everyone. I don't want to walk about

dancing and chanting the name of god etc... i'm sorry but i think i

have better things to do with my time. We are not all born as

mirabais and neither would our families appreciate our shedding of

responsibility whilst we busy ourselves hysterically crying out for

love & mercy of god .Oh! God Where are you? I am such a helpless lame

dirty person, save me. Even Rama krishna was taken to be a mad man

by many but then we are not all Ramkrishna paramhansas.

 

It is the drive of the ego that makes up take up religious practices

in the first place so ideas about giving up the ego are totally

useless. In fact mira , ramakrishna etc did not have to give up

their ego they just were themselves and precisely because their egos

were a bit dysfunctional that they were recognised as mad. Do you

want to be known as mad? I dont know but that could well be the

point. or the ego which dictates your every thought including

conceptions of mine is suddenly going to lose that sense of

possession? Ego will relinquish possessions in full knoweledge of

that fact that what it is going to acheive in return is worth more

and what is worth more than being known as a selfless sadhu? a saint,

mahatma? man of god?

 

I remember being in this train years ago, sitting opposite a young

lady who was busy chanting her Hari Krishna. I told her off when we

got off. I told her that her spiritual expression did not need to be

in the face of others giving us all a headache. You want to do it do

it in your head, don't make a show of it!

 

What i am saying is that there are a variety of methods and none is

the ultimate way. If i was to sit down crying and chanting i would

be shown the front door to my own house very soon with a couple of

letters from the solicitor to follow. So those that advocate what is

in the previous posts obviously live in a totally nonrealistic

environment or have scant regards for the legitimate feelings of

others. Too busy buttering their own egos.

 

Sitting quietly watch your breathing

 

Now what could be easier than that?

 

Ravi Bakhshi

 

--------------------------------

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

This refers to Mike's observations regarding message of Swamiji on

austerities vis a vis mineness of Jeeva with Paramatma.

 

Mike ! The biggest fault in a " positive " sadhan is that it pre

supposes your connection with body and with ego. Why would you like

to control your mind unless you consider it to be " mine " ? How can

you perform austerities unless you are connected with your body?

The real obstacle is " mineness " with the ever changing world, body,

nature, inert - however you call that ! We clean every day our

house, but next day again need to clean arises. Because the house is

not closed. When you consider mind/body etc to be " mine " - you are

impure at the beginning itself. Now whatever austerities you

perform, meditation you do, naam japa you do , penances you perform

will delay you, because the main and first impurity of " mineness "

has not been addressed!

 

Once you keep " mineness " with body/mind/world etc and so long you

keep, you are not " renouncing/serving " , you are enjoying/consuming.

You are not " disconnecting " , you are " connecting " ! You are

not " doing " for others, you are doing for yourself. Since you are

doing say naam japa, meditation, austerities considering " mind/body

etc " to be " mine " , hence you are doing mere " karmas " ( they have not

become " akarmas " within the meaning of Gita) . You should be ready

then to reap the results of " karmas " . The Bondage is not loosened.

The noose has tightened.

 

Hence Swamiji recommends the easy route.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

---------------------------

Namaskar! a) Part Enlightenment Let me at the beginning tell you

that the easiest way to realise God , Nirvana or enlightenment in

this Kal Yug, in fact no more rites and ritual, only sincere naam

jap clears the way for total moksha if done sincerely, with lots of

longing for God, as if He is your beloved, that much yearning

needed, plus with good thoughts, words and deeds, all in harmony with

each other. Mainly do naam japp of Lord Krishna, when tongue tired,

capture His form in your mind. Say Krishna jap softly throughout

day, till it becomes as natural as the process of breathing and

Lord gets Fixed with your incoming and outgoing breadth.My dear

Friend realise first that you are Atma the eternal soul and linked

to your source Parmatma (God Head) Like you all souls are linked to

this source. This could come after lot of dedication, after removing

a lot of our internal personality defects like ego, anger, greed and

violence even in thought. Every morning surrender all deeds to God.

Look everything electrical has power similarly all souls connected

to Power God and none is greater or smaller by physical size,

wealth, nationality etc. The pauper and rich man are all equal

recipients to God's grace. If you keep your mobile connection to God

swtiched off by getting totally snared in sense objects and lobha,

moha then obviously you cannot recceive air waves of His divine

grace, which is showered equally on all. Do your best and surrender

in totality, thought, word, deed and result are all his. He is doer

not the physical self by your name, doership prevents reaching

enlgihtnment stage. b) Annubhtutis are very much given by merciful

Lord. Annubhutis given to persons to strengthen their faith in God

and more intense talamal (yearning) to want God desperately.

Annubhutis are given to seekers, in fact many of the group self

belongs have experienced one time or other, which we feel is an

indication we are on the right path. It's like indication, you have

passed your terminals, now go ahead and learn the full portion and

with more concentration for the final school leaving exam (final

exam from life to beyond, depending upon our talmal to reach God,

and if moha, lobha krodh conquered to a very great extent. We have

to show anger to discipline but zero inward anger.Anubhutis given to

sick and dying folks that do not worry I am around the corner, your

eternal friend of all life times , beyond the funeral pyre where

worldly relatives leave you. Gratitude at holy charan of Gurdev, who

is doer, and self is merely his instrument and nothing more.

 

Sadhika Shirin C.

-------------------------

Hari Om

 

That we shall realise Paramatma after purification of mental

equipment- this is hope for the future! The element is in past,

present and future as well as is beyond them. The vedanta

methodology of realising God is very time consuming. There first

Viveka (conscience), Vairagya (dispassion), Samadhi (absorption),

Shatsampati (six properties) and Mumuksha (desire) -

this " chatushtay " has to be performed. Then Shravan, Manan and

Nididhyasan - these 3 have to be done. Then there is purification

process. Then there seedful samadhi. Upto here you are

using/associated/connected with Nature, with " inert " ! Upon total

disconnection with inert, there is " seedless " samadhi. Then you

realise God! This is the methodology of God Realisation through use

of mind/body/intellect !

 

Swamiji says that this process is not necessary at all. You are

getting delayed because of lack of intense desire. The element is as

it is. Your eye is not on that. Just as we see by our eyes any

object. But before we see the object, in fact we see the light

first. Under light only that object is visible. But our eye is on

the object not on the light! Hence we notice object first and not

light!

 

In God Realisation there is no need of wait for future. Future is

warranted for that thing which is away, which requires

action/efforts, where we have to make some changes! But element

called God is ever present completely. To realise that where is the

question of future? It exists in all places, times, things, states,

circumstances, etc. All are eligible and capable of realising Him.

It is indivisible existence. Where then is the need of any

time/effort/action/eligibilty/power/control/capacity? What can be

pre requisites for such an element?

 

Only desire is needed. Burning desire!! Only a glance at presence of

light is needed, under which light objects are visible !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Reading [sadhaka] What does it mean by 'To know One's Self'? (Oct

25, 2008) part 1.

 

I wrote a comment to Sadhaka inserted below:

'I am glad you placed this post in at this time.

As in a comment I made, I mentioned that Swamiji had practiced

austerities, and I realize that to take that small but 'giant'

spiritual step one needs the right mind set. I might ask Gita-talk to

reflect on this.

As always,.....' Implicit in that comment, is it maybe the failure

or slowness of a particular bona fide process, that can bring one to

that point of having to make that final step by higher awareness,

but does one need to practice something or not to gain this higher

awareness,(for want of a better way of putting it). With Respect and

Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

 

Yes Mikeji, your observations of Swamiji are absolutely correct.

Swamiji has himself said that many austerities he has done to

experience the truth. Please read on from Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu page

700-701, a recent sadhak daily message also addressed the three easy

paths - 1) to know one's self (Jnana yog), 2) to not do anything

for one's self (Karma Yog), or 3) to attain Paramatma (Bhakti Yog).

All three paths are very easy. Swamiji has encouraged us to try it

once. One can always revert to the longer path of spiritual

practices. Attached below are portions of the daily sadhak

message, Thank you, Varun Paprunia

 

 

From " Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu " in Hindi page 700-701

 

To know one's self means - like you have worn clothes, then

are you the clothes? No. Are you the skin? No. Are you the flesh?

No. Are you blood? No. Are you blood vessels? No. Stomach is filled

with mucus, excertion and all other impurities. Are you that? No.

Are you intestines? No. All this, I am not. After accepting it

as 'I am not this', then never consider it as 'I am', then you will

know yourself. It is so easy ! After spitting, do not lick. To

know one's self, to not do anything for one's self, or to attain

Paramatma - these three paths are very easy. Which ever path you

want to take, it is your wish.

 

Look, I will say one thing. This thing being said is a bit

egoistical, but I am not saying it with an egoistical attitude. I

have discovered and I am still discovering. Now what is that

thing ? That one attains liberation/salvation easily and

immediately. According to the path prescribed by scriptures, after

hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation

(Nidhidhyasan), Meditation (Dhyan), State of Absolute Nothingness

(Savikalp and Nirvikalp samadhi) and Consciously dropping the Mind

(Sabeej Samadhi) and rooting out all forms of duality (Nirbeej

Samadhi) then one attains realization / liberation / redemption. I

have learned this scriptural prescription. I have given

considerable thought to it, as well. And have also done

considerable amount of - Shravan, Manan, Nidhidhyasan, Dhyan. But

the point is only this much - 'I am not this'. For such a simple

thing, why to dig a mountain ?

 

I am saying a very simple and clear thing. ....I am only telling you

that thing by which you can realize the truth as immediately as

possible. If you place barriers that how will it happen so quickly,

it did not happen to XYZ that quickly, then how will it happen to

me? I am telling you that try and see for yourself. If you are in no

hurry, then take the longer route. I am not saying 'No' or objecting

to it. Do as I say. If it happens immediately, then you are in

profit, else the longer route is always open for you. What is the

roadblock for you? If you do according to what I say, you will also

get assistance for the longer path or you will not need it. If you

ask me there would be no need to take the longer path. Look, this

thing doesn't come easily. People are not aware of this. Even I

myself didn't know of it. Without any ability, knowledge,

meditation, samadhi etc. attaining that state where nothing is to be

done, known and acquire (gain). I was not aware of it. When I didn't

know, I practiced various control disciplines, stayed in solitude,

stopped meeting people. You will be surprised to know that I ate

rotis (indian bread) by weighing them. To place limits on myself,

both vegetable and roti were weighed and eaten, so that I may not

eat more. To sleep only these many hours, not to sleep more than

that. To keep very few things with myself. Never to say to anyone

that 'I don't have this thing' - not to say this to anyone. I had

lived in this manner for a number of years. I underwent many

hardships, if I tell you these, you will be surprised. .......I have

tried all those things. That is also one way, but a long way.

Whatever spiritual practices (saadhan) you have done, it won't go

waste, but it will take a lot of time.......

 

From " Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu " in Hindi page 700-701 by Swami

Ramsukhdasji.

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

-Shree Hari-

 

Michael,

I agree with you regarding Swamiji. When I read his posts , it is as

if he has looked into my soul, and yet he is no longer in body. The

God realized, are beyond, what we consider the rules of logic, (for

want of a better expression).

For myself, I can say, I do not have knowledge of the Vedas, I am

not steeped in the traditions of India, so I am so grateful that I

have (somehow) found this site. I have no doubt in my mind that

India is the ancient wellspring of the science of Yoga.

Through the corridors of time this great and holy tradition has found

its way into many religions.

 

Some of the comments as you say are crisp, others are somewhat

esoteric, at least from my perspective, to others they may be crystal

clear.

 

I find that chapters 6 and 12 in Gitaji informative regarding the

original questions.

 

I also observed something interesting; my understanding is Swamiji

practiced certain austerities in his desire to be at one with the

Divine. Then he found a simple way. He is Gods, God is his. (Does

that sound familiar?).

Here is the point. Swamiji's, desire for the Beloved was deep and

burning, only Bhagwan, and the good Swami understood the journey he

had taken that brought him to the door that was thinner than a micron

to Swamiji, lighter than a feather for him to push open.

But to many souls it is a hundred tonne slab, the sum weight of the

illusions of ignorance.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

Dear All Sadhaks,

 

I am thankful for all the advice given to me on my observations.

However, it is clear that the road to Salvation for some seems to be

different from my convictions. You are most welcome to practice what

you are preaching and realise God " Quickly " . The fact that such a

discussion has been going on for such a long time, there is

certainly something missing, which is holding you from realising.

 

I believe in doing rather than only talking.

 

A.H.Dalmia

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Swamiji emphasized asking, querying, cross-examining, debating, and

more... so that concepts would become absolutely clear, and one can

get beyond. After all Arjuna also was doing the same before Shri

Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.

 

Therefore Dalmiaji, we appreciate your insights to further clarify

for all sadhaks. We look forward to hearing from all sadhaks on

specific issues that are unclear, and need further examination /

clarification, or those that you disagree with. Please elaborate

specifics. Let us build on what others have already said (if

possible).

 

From Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

----------------------------

 

Salutations to this Divine Forum

 

Bravo ! Here is Hari Mohan making confident statement that All are

God. Though I am not, but I should believe that I can be. Mr Hari

can you briefly state as to what right conduct you want that must be

in a human being to become God ? That should help us all. What are

the good deeds which lead you to become God yourself. Please

enlighten.

 

With Love to all,

 

Luca Brasi

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

More and more I read writings of Swami Ramsukhdas, more and more

pleasure I get. Yes, it is not an easy task to find even a

semblance of untruth in his expressions. While I love spending time

in reading, but I feel that if Moderators of this site are really

serious and about sharing the spiritual bliss of the eastern world,

then stricter adherence to guidelines is needed for shorter/crisper

replies and not wordy and endless expressions. I seem to loose sight

of the main points by the end of my reading. Time is precious for

all.

 

Overall I admire and am inspired my many in this group. Mike, I am

inspired the most by you. There is truth living in the east wisdom -

yes!.

 

Michael Hagen

 

-----------------------------

Jai Kali

 

I feel Dalmia should be heard for what he says is a common belief

shared my many. Just like straightening the curly tail of dog is

impossible, so it is not possible to discipline the ever changing

mind ! Do you mean that aspirant with good mind can reach God and

aspirant with a bad mind cannot? Hasn't it been said that no two

minds are the same? If God is available to all, then where is the

need of the mind there? If mind is a machine then you are the

operator. If mind is operator than you are the machine.

The choice is yours.

 

Sarphod Tabalchi

 

-------------------------

What is not God? We ourselves are Gods. It is up to us to realise

our divine qualities through good deeds and meditation.

 

hari shanker deo

-------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Ram-Ram,

Today while I was listening Swamiji's Pravachan of 10th January 1991

(Nitya yoga), I got the best answer to this question. Its my humble

request to the questioner and all of us, please listen to it. I

think these questions arise because we don't listen to Swamiji's

pravachans. If we do so regularly, there won't we any question left

unanswered.

Ashok Goenka

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Thank you Ashokji,

Every lecture in Hindi by Swamiji since 1991 is on the website. It

is a gold mine !!! So very precious, that it is yet to be

discovered by the world. There is so much in this treasure chest,

that we will never run out of listening to new lectures every day in

this lifetime. More than 15,000 hours of lectures, all available

online. All free. The best things in the world are for free ...

think about it !!! Here is the link to the discourses -

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/

 

Let us know what you discovered after listening!

Gita Talk Moderator

Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

I must remind Mr. Dalmia, Swamiji, has written in Sadhak Sanjivani

preface that according to Gitaji, controlling mana (mind) or

whatever U call it Is NOT IMPORTANT AS COMPARED TO APANAPAN

(relationship, mineness) WITH GOD. WHICH OF THE GOPI DID ABHYAAS

(practice, repeated study) TO ATTAIN KRISHNA?

 

PREM GALI ATI SAAKRI (NARROW), YA MEIN DO NA SAMAYA,

YA TO HARI BHAJAN KAR YA FIR VISHAYA KAMAI.

 

The path of love is extremely narrow, in this two cannot fit

Either worship Hari, or engage in worldly sense enjoyments

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani.

 

---------------------------

QUESTION 1: Discuss simplest form of bhakti and means of realization

1) Do all your duties, stay amidst family, but surrender anything

and everything to Paramathuma with calm mind knowing that ALL is HIS

Leelas. Ex: Hamuman was offered many things by Sri Rama on

Pattabisek day. Even a mala presented Hamuman tested to see if Rama

was in it. Rest you sadaks know. Sri Vishnu appeared to Vaishavite

Alwar and asked the saint, " What if I (Bagavan) put you into hell " .

Saint sais it was HIS will. This is simplest form of Bakthi If one

gets a trouble and looses a little faith then it is not termed as

Bakthi. Bagavan in BG said, " Aaniya Chinthayayome--- " . In Bakthi

there is 3 types. Kamiyartha Bakthi--Sadana Bakthi--Niskama Prema

Bakthi. 1st one seeking God for benifits. 2cd one seeking God for

Mukthi. 3rd one seeking God for nothing but for unconditional love.

 

QUESTION 2: How can man very quickly attain realization of

Paramaatma?

2) By totally silencing the mind.

 

QUESTION 3: Can one quickly attain realization through repeated

study and spiritual practices ?

3) Repeated study means, what studied once unable to follow, what

spritual practice done does not eliminate 6 bad Gunas (Kama, Krodha,

Madha etc) leads to limitless time to realization. Study or spritual

practice depends on Shardha (determination/Vairangiyam)

 

But for all the 3 Bagavan grace required. Examples: When Sorpanaka

Ravana sister met Sri rama in forest spoke of her family members.

She said Vibushan is Dharmathuma not suitable to our family. Sri

Rama made sankalpa that HE should see Vibushan

Kuchela was in thoughts of Sri Krishna and often tells his wife

about Krishna. At one time Sri Krishna tought how is HIS friend

Kuchela. Then it struck the idea to Kuchla/his wife to Visit

Krishna. In both the cases they were Dharmathumas. GOD loves

Dharmathumas. But defenition about Dharmathumas is lengthy.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Raam Raam Raam

 

Problem with Mr Dalmia is that he is stuck like a needle of

gramophone on " mind " . He started this when " karan nirapeksha

sadhan " of Swamiji was deliberated by sadhaks. Since then his mind

is not allowing him to appreciate dozens of reasons which have been

in different styles, manners presented by various sadhaks.

Today's sadhak message also presents him the truth . Unfortunately

he is not able to distinguish between the " mineness and then naam

japa " and mere " abhyaas " . Funny arguments, even reflection of

hatred, for fellow sadhaks and comments about a Saint as rare as

Swamiji can then be only termed as " naturally arising " out of a

stuck, jammed intellect/mind set. My humble advice as a sadhak

myself is that so long as one doesnot relinquish shelter of ever

changing mind/intellect/ego , one genuinely will not be able to

determine even regarding God Realisation - as Swamiji 's message in

today's sadhak posting and as Mira Dassji's last posting reflects..

There has to be a limit of stressing on any aspect. Mr Dalmia- your

reference of Kabir Doha, or what Bhaiji told once regarding mind

according to you, or what is dhatu " bhaj " can be countered by

same Kabeer's dozen other Dohas, and same Bhaiji's ( Bhaiji- Revered

Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) elaboratel writings. Whenever you quote

other sadhaks please make certain that you do not deliberately omit

the context.

 

One sadhak earlier stated throw the mind into dust bin, please try

to do so, and the mind will settle, it will concentrate better. Your

all " ananya chetah " , " satatam " etc will automatically fall in place

once you establish " mineness " with God. Mineness with God has such

immense power that even if you thereafter do worldly duties for 24

hours a day, it will be considered as Bhajan (worship and devotion

of God).

 

Let us pray to Paramatma so that " sadbuddhi " continues to dawn and

manifest.

 

Pranaam,

Beenani S

---------------------------

 

Priya Sadhaks

 

Jee Jee Shashikalajee's postings gives momentum to the

deliberations. She is not like a parrot keep uttering same words -

Desire, 3 yogas, time needed and that is all. She brings new

practical thoughts.

 

We are happy with whatever we are reading from Swamiji, Vyasji,

Mike, Sarvottamji, Mira Dasji, Papruniaji, Satyanarainji and dozens

like them. Hari Mohan Deoji , Rakshitaji all are clear headed. I

benefit immensely.. We( I and I am sure many like me), are able to

understand and appreciate their views. What is then the problem? Let

us have this divine Satsanga.

 

Many of you do not know what benefits I have got by implementing some

suggestions of Jee Jee Shashikalaji, Sarvottamji, Mike, Rajendraji

and Vyasji. Such an elite club in such terrible times- God's Grace

is there on this web site, no doubt.

 

Sadhaks - please follow Swamiji, you will benefit immensely. Follow

Swamiji. Why blindly apply your mind and logic. Who says no ? If you

don't have mind, then go blindly. But we all have minds, Jee ! Isn't

it Jee Jee ?

 

M M Purohit

----------------------------

Jai Bajrang Bali

 

Dalmiaji Maharaj ! Aap Dhanya Hai ( Hats off to you). Aapka dimaag

dhanya hai (Hats off to your mind). There is one Marwaari Idiom (

Dalmiaji is

from Rajasthan, India, hence Idiom of that language) " AANDHE BINA

AWADE NAHIN

AUR ANDHO DEETHO SUHAVE NAHIN " - You cannot remain without a blind

person, and

you like like a blind person.

 

Only Lord Hanumaan can impart wisdom in you. Why you are not able to

appreciate simple facts as presented by Swamiji, Mira Dass, Jee Jee,

Vyasji,

Sarvottamji, Rajaji ? Why ??? Because your mind has enslavened

your " self "

totally ! Bitter fact but true.

 

Silver lining is that Dalmiaji can not live without Gita Talk group

that is sure. We love to hear from you no matter what. Oh God - Hats

off to you

and hats off to your creation.

 

Chesta Vinod

-------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

 

When Bhagvan's name recitation, chanting, prayer all come under

discipline and practice, however they are superior to other

practices. As in

abhyaas (practice) there is dependency on your mind/body to do,

where as in name

recitation, chanting, prayer there is dependency on God. When you

call out to

God " Hey Naath ! Hey mere Naath ! it is far more powerful than

practices

(abhyaas). Practices (abhyaas) are through self-effort, but in

calling out, work

is done through the grace of God. You seem to be directed towards

mostly

spiritual practices, as those are your sanskars / tendencies.

Therefore if you engage in name recitation, chanting, prayer etc. it

will be

very beneficial.

Ramchandra

 

HINDI

Bhagvan ka jap , kirtan, prathna , bhi abhyas ke antragat aate hein

tathapi ye abhyas se tez hein karan ki abhyas mein apna sahara

rahta hein per jap , prathna , aadi mein bhagvan ka sahara rahta hein

Hey nath ! Hey mere nath ! Yeh pukar abhyas se tez hein abhyas se

Apne udyog se kam ho ta hein per pukar mein bhagvan ki kirpa se kam

ho ta hein. Aap abhi abhyas ke rajya mein bhethe hu- a hein

Aapke sanskar abhyas ke hein isliye aap name jap, kirtan,prathna,

 

Mein lag ja vo tho aapko bhahut labh hoga

[ramchandra]

 

--------------------------

Jai siya ram

ram hi ram

priy sadhak parivaar of shashikalajee jee jee I really admire your

thoughts specially for Swamiji.

I can't tell how lucky was I to have met such a divine angel

swamiji. I can't say in words. Only that such angels visit this

planet to deliver Gods bhavas (inner sentiments) to sadhaks.

Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani is the Ultimate

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhaks,

 

I have been pondering over this subject for many days now. Outcome

of these ponderings are recorded below

 

What is the concept of " Quick " in god realisation? We have been

taking birth after birth since time immemorial (84 lakh yonis).

Considering that as a time frame, if we can realise God during this

birth, I think this is very " Quick " .

 

What is the " Value " of god realisation? There is nothing in the

whole 'Brahmand' (Universe) that can even remotely compare with

the " value " of God realisation. If such an invaluable thing can be

got in our current birth, I think this is very " Quick " .

 

Do we really realise how valuable is god realisation? If we do, why

do we even need to ask the question how quickly we can realise god.

Just to take an example of " Air " . It is very valuable but we realise

it's real value If we don't breath for one minute.Otherwise, we take

it for granted and give it no importance. Similarly, if we can get

god for free, will we appreciate how valuable is God realisation.

The answer is " No " .

 

In the context of stilling the mind, Gitaji clearly says " Abhyasen

tu Kontaiya Vairagen cha Grihyate " (8:35). People who do not want to

labour to tame the mind, simply dismiss it by saying that this is

the only place (1 shloka) where God has advised stilling the mind.

They go to the extent of saying

 

'Millions and trillions have tried to control mind in the past,

Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in straightening out this curly tail of

dog-called

" mind " .'

 

How can a person know about these millions and trillions. This is

because Gitaji

in almost all the chapters (though using different words

like " Ananya Cheta " ,

" Tasmat Sarveshu Kaleshu Mamansmar " , " Manmana Bhav " and so on which

lead to the

same concept), Bhagwatji, Manasji and so many great saints keep on

repeating

this over and over again.

Mind has to be tamed whatever method and time it takes. Mind can be

tamed and has been tamed by the great saints (I do not, will not and

can not at all share the views of many sadhaks expressed against the

view borrowed by me from the scriptures and saints as above).

Ofcourse, who do not agree with this view, are fully entitled to try

the methods expressed by so many other sadhaks and see how quickly

they succeed in their goal.

 

I would like to end by reiterating what Sant Kabeer said

 

" Karat karat abhyas ke jad mati hot sujan, Rasri awat jat the sil

par parat nisan "

 

Abhyas, abhyas and more abhyas with Vairagya, vairagya and more

vairagya. With this abhyas and vairagya add only the desire to

realise god. This is a sure shot method, whatever time it takes.

 

A.H.Dalmia

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji was asked this question and his exact response is stated

below. Clearly he has communicated in this response the following

key points, some already conveyed by other sadhaks:

 

Ease of realization is from:

 

- our inner sentiments, sincere desire / aim / intense quest for

realization

- respecting our discrimination (vivek) between real and perishable

 

Greatest obstacles in realization are:

 

- our incorrect belief that God Realization is process oriented

(i.e. through spiritual practices / abhyaas).

- trapped in worldly enjoyment (body - mind consciousness),

preventing turning

towards God

 

Let us therefore awaken this inner quest and discrimination (vivek)

once and for all !

 

Please read his response and those who have doubts, ask questions

specific to Swamiji's response.

 

Question: If Realization of the Supreme Consciousness is so easy

that simply by having our attention and focus on IT, realization is

possible, then what are the obstacles that are preventing this from

happening ?

 

Swamiji: Believing that the process of attainment of worldly

objects, and the attainment of that Supreme Consciousness is a very

similar, such a belief, is a great obstacle in God Realization.

Worldly attainments are by doing something, but God Realization is

not by doing something, rather it is through a sentiment, an inner

expression, inner illumination. Worldly objects have to be created /

assembled, they have to be given a birth, they have to be obtained

from somewhere, for it one has to go somewhere; but God does not

have to be assembled, does not have to be created, does not have to

be brought from somewhere, and for IT one does not need to go

anywhere. That Supreme Consciousness is present as-IS, in all

Countries, all timeframes, all things, all individuals, all

situations, all circumstances, all the different states of being,

etc. We do not have a sincere and intense quest, a desire for it's

attainment. We are believing ourself to be one with this body and

engaging in worldly enjoyments.

 

Just like a fish caught in a net, cannot proceed any further,

similarly beings trapped in worldly pleasures and enjoyment, can

never turn towards God. Not only that, those who are attracted and

attached to worldly enjoyments, cannot even make a firm

determination to turn towards God.

 

Indulging in worldly enjoyments, is paying disrespect to our

discrimination. If we gave weight to our understanding, then we will

be unable to engage and enjoy worldly pleasures. Because it is only

by considering the being or objects enjoyed as stable and permanent

that we are able to enjoy these objects. Without considering them

stable and permanent (here to stay), one simply cannot indulge in

worldly pleasures.

 

This body and this world are constantly changing, it does not remain

stable even for a moment. On having this understanding, man can

never engage in worldly enjoyment. This is because once this

discrimination has been awakened, our state will no longer be in

this body, rather is will remain in the " Self " . Therefore we must

give great importance to our discrimination.

 

Meera Das

Ram Ram

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Question 1: Sadhak from the very beginning have been doing so

Question 2. You completely surrender, then, tell us at the flick of

an eyelid, what happened

Question 3. Yes ! However comparitively there are delays. All

answers are in the words of Shraddhey Swamiji.

 

IN HINDI

 

Q. 1: Sadhak pahele se hi aise karte aah rahe hai

Q. 2: Aap poornatah sharanaagat ho jaaye, phir kahiyegaa palak

jhapakate kyaa ho gayaa.

Q. 3: Haa kintu apekshaakrt der se. Sabhi utter Shraddhey Swamiji

ke shabd hai.

 

Ram Ram

Sarvottam

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Oh No , Raja Bhaiyya! When I wrote this piece ( straight from Sadhak

Sanjeevani) , there was no other thought like feeling offended etc.

Kindly never feel so. You have indeed been a companion of truth

always. Both me and my Hubby admire your timely contributions. There

can't be any such question of getting offended. This is satsanga.

This indeed is a divine platform of discussing such important issues.

 

In fact we ourselves believe in quick realisation. This piece when I

read Sadhak Sanjivani - came to my notice for the first time. I was

indeed happy to see how deep were Swamiji's bhavas.

 

Believe Me, Raja Bhaiyya, Swamiji was indeed an angel.He was indeed

Godly. My husband keeps listening His CDs continuously. In the night

he religiously starts his discourses at 11 pm and the player is on

till 8 am . It plays whole night. Many times in half sleep when

keertans come, the feeling is divine.Many times when there is no

deep sleep, the voice of Swamiji appears nectar like. In dreams too

His roaring voice plays in background. It is every day routine for

us.

 

My hubby too contributes in this divine satsanga. We have learnt

together, we have become sadhaks together. Now children have also

started taking interest. We have same goal. There is no place of

getting offended in our life. We believe that " svabhav " can be

improved in human life only and no where else. Both of us are

basically fault finders of each other.

 

Occassional aggression reflected in my writings is mere fun and my

weakness perhaps. I must seek forgiveness of all for being rather

aggressive.

 

My sincere pranaams to you. And to all sadhaks , Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

Dear sadaks,

In Bagavat geetha Bagavan says Abhyaas done over several births may

give liberation. But Bagavan says again in same BG that Bagavan can

liberate a person in the same birth if HE makes Sankalpa. First

instance one can do Abhyaas but will have somewhere in a corner of

mind (without the knowledge of himself) that he is doing Abyas. That

I am doing abyas creates Divaytham (plural - Me and God are

differant). During Abyas one slowly looses this thought that me is

differant from God after practice in several births and gets to see

Bhagavan. But many saint failed in Abhyaas. One such was Sant

Viswamitra. Another saint getting boon from Bhrama 400 years to live

and got nothing at end. He got fed up and thought of Sri Vishnu

closing his eyes and shed 2 drops of tears. On opening his eyes Sri

Vishnu was in front of him. Bagavan said for the 2 drops of tears I

(Bagavan) appeared and further said, " When you lost hope in you

doing abhyaas and surrendered to me with tears I had to appear. "

This means God and saint were one at one stage of surrender- Which

Means Advaitham. This does not mean to discourage abhyaas. But meant

to bring in that one doing abhyaas should always think that it is

Bhagavan wish.

 

Coming to Easy & quick means.

There were few saints got to see Bagavan instantly. 1)

Sidharameswara (temple in Sholapur). He jumped from clif failing

that Bagavan Shiva never came doing Tapa for few weeks. As he was

falling from heights, he felt someone caught hold of him and pulled

him up to top of cliff. There he saw Bagavan Shiva. Later he got

Sidhis and is known to be in Jeeva Samadhi at Sholapur. 2) Sri

Ragavendra at tender age gave fruits to Sri Krishna Idol and God

never took. The boy cried profusly and Sri Krishna appeared. 3) The

same with Sant Namadev. 4) Child 3 years old Thirugynanasambathar

cried for hunger looking at the Shiva temple. Mother Parvathi came

and fed milk to him. This saint known to have done wonders. At one

stage the saint took all people along with him to Sri Kailash.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------

Jai Hanumanji

Jai shree ramji

I partially agree with Shashikalajee jee jee.

I meant to ask about quickness but it was misinterpreted. Quickness

means if you are thisty & water is in front of you, then why

strive? Thinking that quickness is not good, it may create short

falls or may be looked upon as foolishness.

Like that when God is everywhere, what is the problem if God is here

right with you, whthin you. Why deny the truth?

 

Jeejee Swamiji said humans themselves, very meticulously, create

hurdles around them that God Realization is difficult, years & years

must pass before realizing, only then it will be true.

Isn't it ridiculous that you have food rights in front of you,

people requesting you to please take it, to eat it & you say - NO I

WILL STRIVE instead.

 

SORRY IF I OFFENDED, BUT TRUTH IS BITTER SOMETIMES.

I heartily apologise If I offended someones opinion. Simultaneously

I support my learnings from Swami Ramsukhdasji.

 

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

There are two terms. One - " abhyaas " (practice) and two- " abhyaas

yoga " ( practice with equanimity). BG 12:9 - deals with the latter.

Here there has to be " an object fixed " before you indulge

into " practice " of naam japa, (repeated chanting of God's name)

sankeertan, shravan (hearing, satsanga) etc. That object has to

be " God realisation " . Such an object is very easy to be fixed- once

you have " become " of God by accepting " mere to Girdhar Gopal. "

 

When sadhak with the above object does practice of naam japa etc

then his antahkarana (mind, intellect, ego) starts becoming purer

and a " desire " of God Realisation arises in him. When he

becomes " equanimous " in accomplishment/non accomplishment, then an

anxiety in him arises of God Realisation. This anxiety (vyakulta)

burns sadhak's attachment with the world and the sins of endless

births. Upon happenning of that , sadhak develops exclusive love

with God , and a stage comes when he can't tolerate disconnection

with God. As a law then God also can't tolerate disconnection with

Sadhak.

 

And you get God Realisation.

 

You get delayed only because you tolerate delay.

 

" Practice " is purification of mind and an effort by Sadhak to

concentrate mind upon the God. (BG 6:26) " Practice with Yoga " (

Abhyaas Yoga) does not seek to concentrate the mind , it results

in " disconnection with mind " .(BG 12:9).

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

---------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

We all desire to do sadhan (striving) , we do sadhan also but we

keep along with that our likings in respect of what we consider as

ideal circumstance/state, favourable situation and pleasure desiring

intellect. This is a very very big obstacle in our striving.

 

If a sadhak searches for easiness in striving, and wants to realise

very quickly then he is desirous/lover of pleasure and not of

striving. Such a sadhak has to suffer delay. Because then his eye is

set on the result and not on the striving. Such focus on result

creates boredom in sadhak and causes delay.

 

A desire for God is one thing and a desire for quick realisation is

another. The latter gets angry in case any obstacle comes in his

striving. The former when faced with obstacle starts crying

helplessly, which increases in fact his desire for God ( utkantha) .

 

In desiring " quickness " (latter case) there is bhava of comfort

and result. There sadhak feels first let me realise God and then I

will take rest. That reduces your respect for sadhan (striving). But

in case of utkantha ( former case) , sadhak sees his rest and

comfort in sadhan itself. " What else is more important work than

this? " - He thinks like that ! He develops a feeling - I have to get

God, whether early, late, easily or with difficulty. Thus then his

entire strength gets employed towards the striving. But one desiring

quickness, can get disappointed also quickly. There should not a

bhava of quickness in sadhak.

 

Said Mother Parvati in Ramayana -

 

" Janam Koti Lag ragar hamaru, varau Shambhu na ta rahat kunwaari !

 

Tajau na Narada kar updeshu, aapu kahahu sat baar Maheshu "

 

Even if millions of life times may get elapsed, I shall marry only

Lord Shiva else I will remain bachelor only. I shall not deviate

from the advice given to me by Sage Narada, even if Lord Shiva

Himself tells me hundred times to deviate.

 

Here the emphasis is on object/ striving and not on quickness.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

------------------------------

I thought the following article provides a radically diferent outlook

to the one many Sadhaks in this group are more familiar with

regarding the " God Realization " . I think this somewhat addresses the

current topic - whether God Realization is easy and quick or by

practice. Please feel free to express your opinions.

 

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

 

 

Practiced Yoga vs Stumbled-Upon Yoga †" by Swami Vivekananda

 

The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of

existence, beyond reason, a superconcious state, and when the mind

gets to that higher state, then this knowledge, beyond reasoning,

comes to man.

Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man. This

state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human natur, may

sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its

science; he, as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it,

he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains

why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in

different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through

an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God.

What does it mean? It means that mind brought the knowledge by its

own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted

according to the belief and education of the person through whom it

came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled

upon this superconscious state.

 

The Yogi says there is a great danger in stumbling upon this state.

In a good many cases there is the danger of the brain being

deranged, an as a rule, you will find that all these men, however

great they were, who had stumbled upon this superconscious state

without understanding it, groped in the dark and generally had,

along with their knowledge, some quaint superstition. They opened

themselves to hallucinations.

 

Whenever a prophet got into a superconscious state by heightening

his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only

some truths but some fanatism also, some superstitions which injured

the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any

reason out of the mass incogruity we call human life, we have to

transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically, slowly, by

regular practice, and we must cast off all superstitions. We must

take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other

science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must

follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason

itself will how us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man

say 'I am inspired' and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why?

Because these three states - instinct, reason, and superconscious,

or the unconscious, conscious and superconscious state - belong to

one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but the

state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason,

and reason develops into the transcendental consciousness;

therefore, not one of the states contradicts the other. Real

inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfills it. Just as you

find the great prophets saying, 'I came not to destroy but to

fulfil,' so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in

harmony with it.

 

(Partial / selected reproduction)

 

" The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda " , Advaita Ashrama, Mayavati

Memorial Edition, Fourteenth Edition, 1972 Vol. I p.183-185.

 

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Equanimity is a junction through which all trains of sadhana have to

pass. In all yogas - the end result has to be equanimity, Jee.

Sadhaks must concentrate, hence in attaining equanimity. Your

goal should be to achieve that Jee. That is real bravery, that is

real challenge, that is real karma.

 

If you delete " likings and dislikings " from your bhavas/ego,

then attaining equanimity is very fast.

 

If sadhaks really want to reap maximum benefits of satsanga then

they should deliberate regarding various divine traits as stated in

BG 16:1 to 16:3, such as - Attachment and aversion (Raag and

dvesha), Ego, Equanimity, Conscience, Liberation (Freedom from

bondage), God Realisation

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------

Hari Om

 

Swamiji was great admirer of naam japa and sankeertan. This was

inspite of the fact that He always stated that by using body you

cannot get God Realisation - under all the circumstances. You must

disconnect with inert. Hence He insisted that you " become " of God

first and then if you chant the name it gets you God Realisation.

Same view is of Goswamiji Tulsidasji Maharaj.

 

Under all the circumtances the naam japa, keertan, remembering God

is divine act. But if there is no mineness with God responsible for

the same, then bhajan time gets limited to the extent of actual time

used. If you " become " of God first , then each and every activity of

yours , worldly, physical -any activity becomes Bhajan. That 24x7

never ceasing bhajan only can satisfy otherwise stringent

requirements of Bhakti Yoga as per Gita.

 

Hence the first step is " acceptance " that " Mere to Girdhar Gopal,

Doosara na koi " . This is how you " become " of God.

 

Sadhaks may note that " doosaro na koi " is much more essential

than " mere to Girdhar Gopal " . Whether you say/believe or not, like

it or not, know it or not - He is always ours. You are His only from

time immemorial . Hence " negation " of world is more important.

Sadhaks should therefore concentrate more on " disconnection from

world " than on " connection with God " . Connection is already there.

Sadhak should develop a habit of " renouncing/giving " .

 

Once you " become " of God, believe me, process is very very fast.

This is because then even your sleep period is counted as bhajan. So

you are deemed as per Gita. As soon as you " become " of God , divine

properties start " manifesting " in you automatically and

effortlessly. You become Dharmatma instantly. Your bad habits

evaporate as if they never existed. Then you don't have to make an

effort to " do " bhajan (abhyaas), bhajan " happens " on it's own.

Natural love for God starts arising from SELF directly. It is a law

that Love generates from " mineness " . When you " become " of God, you

have established " mineness " with Him.

 

How easy ! How simple !! How logical ! How practical ! How fast !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

A single act of putting one's self, body, mind etc in service of

one's parents( of this birth - father/mother) by a male gets him God

Realisation.

 

A single act of putting one's self, body, mind etc in service of

one's husband by a female gets her God Realisation.

 

A single act of putting one's self, body , mind etc in service of

Paramatma gets every one God Realisation.

 

A single act of disconnection with inert by the self gets you God

Realisation.

 

A single firm resolve that " Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosara na koi " -

Only God is mine, no other is mine- gets you God Realisation.

 

A single act of remembering/chanting name/ keertan gets you God

provided you have established " mineness " with God.

 

A Single act of crying and running into the ever waiting lap of

Mother God in a child like manner gets you God Realisation.

 

Single act ! We can't call then the God Realisation to be difficult.

 

Jaat Bhajo, Gujar Bhajo chahe bhajo Ahir

 

Tulsi Raam ke naam main sab kahoo ka seer

 

Whoever is devoted to God gets Him ! No pre requisites, no

classification, no distinction- only shraddha ( respectful belief),

vishwas (faith/trust) , love ( God is mine ) , devotion ( I am of

God) is needed.

 

Be devoted to Him and you get Him. Be good and you get Him. Be not

bad and you get Him. Leave bad company and you get Him.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Let me share my answers to the following questions!

 

Q1: I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of

bhakti and means of realization by this powerful medium of

group.

A1: Sadhakas are discussing means of realization in the way they

find suitable and simple enough. Each sadhaka has his/her own

understanding of what is simple. Generally a path by itself is not

adopted by most sadhakas. There is a predominance of either

Devotion, or Selfless actions of service, or Self-inquiry. Devotion

is common in all sadhanas, even in Self-inquiry or in Selfless

Karmas, one has to be totally devoted to Truth or Selflessness.

Karmas have to performed by all including Bhaktas. Ultimately Truth

dawns on all who are ready to let go of everything and remain

steadfast on their respective paths. None is superior or inferior

to any one else!

 

Q2: How can man attain very quickly Realization of Paramatma?

A2: By not demanding quick realization of Paramatma!

He is already the timeless Presence within us. Realization happens

in time but not due to time! Realization needs intensity of Sadhana

and not a length of time. From mind's point of view, God Realization

can be thought of in terms of quick or slow as conventionly pointed

out, which may be to lay emphasis on urgency of Realization. God is

eternity in NOW!

 

Q3:Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

A3: Again, emphasis should be on Sadhana and not on time element.

Here it can be pointed out specially in the beginning of Sadhana

that help of friend(s) spiritually inclined, or someone who has

imbibed the teaching of Gita/scriptures such as Swamiji is of great

help. One has to burn with desire to know truth-God of course. On

the path of Truth anyone or anything can be our Guru if mind is

open and heart feels Love. I have known this: Desire to know

God/Truth is a direct invitation from God/Truth. One needs to say

YES on RSVP!

 

Namaskaras........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Indeed ! Indeed Vyasji !! There you are ! Oye Lovely Jee! Doubt is

the root of evil. No doubt on this Jee ! In case of doubt use the

mind or throw the mind in dust bin ? Throw the mind Jee ! Use self

Jee ! No doubt Jee?

 

Doubt on Saints and Sages ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

When the evil temper of doubt has ceased, the mind, with its

confusion and wonder departed and quite full within or self

satisfied, shines like the full moon.

 

When the mind is calmed , evenness (equanimity) , giving birth to

the greatest beauty and with rise or fall in a remote degree ,

arises everywhere, as it happens in an ocean when the wind has

subsided.

 

O Swamiji ! O Taat Shree !! O Maharajji !!!

 

Wisdom or wise sayings which captivate the heart, which are capable

of delighting the world and which have been acquired by virtue, grow

like beams of light from the full moon.

 

Namaste Jee !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Sadhaks may even set small targets for themselves and keep intensely

following the same with Shraddha/Vishwas.For this purpose first they

may assess their present status vis a vis the world. Where are they

bound? Think seriously how at present you are bound, why and by

which people/things. Make a list. Include in that list smallest

things which bind you today. Spent a day by taking God's name in the

beginning - only in making this list. What is binding you to the

world ? This list will set the ball rolling. Add in the list body,

mind, intellect, ego, kith and kin, home, job, duties -whatever you

feel is binding you.

 

Consider a scene like this. Two people are cuddled together. Each

has held arm of other. Both are sufferring and complaining that we

are bound ! " Chhootata nahin hai " -Does not get released ! One party

is sadhak , the other party is world.

 

First Sadhak should leave the arm which he has grasped of the other

party. This is step 1. That is done by " not expecting anything for

self from the world " .

 

Now with that release of grasp , half the tension is gone. You are

not holding arm of the world. You can breath better now. Peace will

start generating. World will also feel better and pleased. It is all

by " bhavas " , by inner intentions. Outer world will not even notice

your releasing the attachment ! World will feel pleasure only.

 

But world is still holding your arm. " Karmanubandhini manushyaloke " -

you are bound by a lot of world say home, children, hubby- the

sweet heart, parents, - they all are still holding your arm because

they are dependent upon you. Because they need you. Because you are

indebted to them. Start serving them with every thing you have got.

In due course they will release your arm. It is a law that " SERVICE

DESTROYS MINENESS " .

 

And you shall be on the path to become free/liberated. But first

release your holding the arm of the world by not expecting anything

from the world.

 

There goes " mineness " . It is a law that with mineness the ego

automatically goes !

 

First stop expecting any thing from world, Second Keep serving the

world. Just do these two things to begin with. The path is very easy.

 

Try it Jee! Implement. Don't say, do it !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

------------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Dalmiaji, your Guru " Bhagavad Gita " has betrayed you. Look what it

says.

 

" He who has mastered his senses, is extremely devoted to his

practice and is full of faith, attains Knowledge; having had the

revelation of Truth, he immediately attains supreme peace in the

form of God-Realization. " (4-39)

 

" Arjuna, whosoever always and constantly thinks of Me with undivided

mind, to that Yogi ever absorbed in me I am easily attainable. " (8-

14)

 

" This knowledge (of both the Nirguna and Saguna aspects of Divinity)

is a sovereign science, a sovereign secret, supremely holy, most

excellent, directly enjoyable, attended with virtue, very easy to

practice and imperishable. " (9-2)

 

" On the other hand, those depending exclusively on Me, and

surrendering all actions to Me, worship Me (Sagun Sakar-God with

form and attributes), constantly meditating on Me with single-minded

devotion, them, Arjuna, I speedily deliver from the ocean of birth

and death, their mind being fixed on Me. " (12-6,7)

 

" Peace immediately follows from renunciation. " (12-12)

 

" The moment man perceives the diversified existence of beings as

rooted in the one Supreme Being and the spreading forth of all

beings from the same, that very moment he attains Brahma (who is

Truth, Consciousness and Bliss solidified). " (13-30)

 

Dalmiaji, this is your kindness that you pity those sadhaks who

follow Swamiji's words blindly.

 

I would sincerely request you to forgive Swamiji (for not clearing

your test) and God (for making above statements).

 

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

The best example of " quick realisation " is ARJUNA. By just hearing

Gita, in the horrible circumstances of war, He realised the Truth.

Then there is Mira Bai, Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj, Swamiji

Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Valmiki, Ajamil, Shabri, Sudama, Hanuman

Prasadji Poddar, Jaidayalji Goenka, Tukaram , Prahlad, Dhruva ( The

list can be endless) – they all realised Paramatma in one life time.

In fact Swamiji stated that you have got so much of time that you

can get Paramatma many times over in one life time. Gita is full of

verses where the realisation is stated to be VERY VERY QUICK, easy

and certain. I can give list of at least 50 such verses. What is

needed ? A simple " mental " disconnection by the SELF from " inert " .

That is all. We are already connected with Paramatma. Remove the

artificial/temporary connection with world , your eternal connection

with God shall manifest automatically. Silver lining is that " inert "

is already disconnecting with you. Just do not establish new

connections, the old connections will automatically go away. As

simple as that ! Where is delay ? It is all tricks of worldly minds

that make us believe that it is difficult and time consuming. I can

give every day 10 examples of quick realisation for next one year

with authentication by Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma !!!

 

Difficulty is not in God Realisation. Difficulty is in relinquishing

the shelter of mind, intellect, ego and body ! We have , become so

attached to the body that any suggestion even of the type that

body/mind etc are distinct from self appears " impractical " to us. We

are being cheated by our own minds. Mind, if you do not pay respect

to it, becomes helpless. If you say it is good then it becomes

master of you. We are stuck only on one method of God Realisation,

but there are minimum 30 independent methods of God Realisation – as

per Gita Only ! What to talk about Bhagvatam, Yoga Vaashishtha,

Puranas etc. If you read " Mahatamya " ( Glorification stories) of

each chapter of Gita in Padam Purana, you will find how quick " God

Realisation " can be.

 

Swamiji indeed realised Paramatma. He set as His goal, how to give

quickest possible methods to the humanity at large of God

Realisation. Sadhaks may be certain that what ever is necessary for

God Realisation is already there with them IN ABUNDANCE. There is no

need for any thing further. They have to utilise in accordance with

their conscience and scriptures - whatever is easily available to

them and that is all. What Guru ? Every particle of the universe is

Guru for a sadhak. Many of the sadhaks in this forum have claimed

that they had /have Gurus. Have they realised God? Your real Guru

is VIVEKA. Your real Guru is KRISHNA . SELF is Guru of SELF.

When " inert " itself cannot reach God, where is any other left except

SELF/VIVEKA? KRISHNA ? As simple as that. I have read a lot of

Scriptures myself- in order to reconcile Swamiji's statements.

BELIEVE ME – I have not found a single statement made by Him to be

in contradiction with any Upanishad, any Purana, any Sanatan Dharma

Holy Text. IT IS A TRUTH> Sadhaks are welcome to make their own

research and come with contradictions. Don't bring instances of "

late realisation " - because hundreds of methods are available in the

Scriptures for the same. If some body goes on foot, somebody goes in

train, somebody goes in Aircraft- the time taken to reach will

naturally be different.

 

Sadhak B Sathyanarainji must have given instances ( Names) of more

than a dozen " quick realisations " in his various postings during

last 3 months on this web site. Gyaneshwar, Sukubai, Chhota Mela,

Vithal, Ramana Maharshi,- many many more. , Sathyanarainji

invariably gives names of great souls. Sadhaks should read each and

every posting carefully. This is indeed a JNANA YAGYA. In real sense

of the word- as Gita means that! We should always believe in Saints

and Sages. Mixing doubt in belief is responsible for delay. Intense

desire can not be there if there is doubt. Swamiji always stated

DON'T MIX DOUBT IN BELIEF. " To believe " is an act of SELF. " To

doubt " is an act of mind. Self and mind are different in nature,

characteristics etc. By renouncing mind ( inert) , in other words by

renouncinf doubt only you can realise Paramatma.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Sadaks, Srimath Bagavath is contiuation of Mahabarath (After

Bagavan` s Geetha). In that it is authentically said, " Nama

Sankeethana " , is enough for God realization/Mukthi. The Pala of

seeking God differs from Yuga to Yuga. In Kali Yuga Nama sankeethan

is enough. It is simple and shortest way said by Rishi Veda Vyas.

Besides in scripts it is said that " Vyasa roopaya Vishnuve- Vishnu

roopaya Vyasaye " . This means Rishi Vyas statement is

undoubtfull.Furthe if one looks into Kali Yuga about God

realization, many Bakthas did only Namas sankeethan. Tukaram said

Name of Pandurag. Namadev said Name of Vital. Samartha Ramadoss said

crores of Ram Nam. Thygaraja Swamy of south India only sang on Sri

Rama. Tulasi said, " Jai Sita Ram " . Some people I met in remote

Himalayas knew nothing but was saying, " Rama Nam Satyahe- Rama Nam

Sathyahe " . These people does not know puranas, sanskrit etc but was

praised God owned people by Tapovan Maharaj.One vaisnavite sanit

sang in Tamil, " Nalam Tharum, Selvam Tharum etc and ended with Om

Namo Narayanaya " . means Om Namo Narayana gives health, wealth, good

mind, GURU, mother, father, etc " . One more Vaisnavite saint called

Thiruppan Alwar was born in Schedule caste. So he was not allowed in

Sri Rangam temple. He used to keep on saying, " Rangeshamai Phahi

rangeshama " . One day it so happened Bagavan Sri Ranganathar temple

chief who was conversant with vedas etc to carry Thiruppan Alwar to

carried on the priest shoulder to the Sanctum Sanctorium. This saint

was caught hold by force and carried to daity. Thiruppan Alwar sang

saying, " The eyes that saw Bagavan will not see anything on earth',

and thus he fell down there and was taken abode of BagavanAnother

scheduled caste Shivite saint Nandhanar sang, " Say one time alteast

Nama Shivaya " . He knew no vedas, scripts etc, but Bagavan Shiva

called him to famous temple Chidambaram, where he was pronounced by

Bagavan Shiva that Nadhanar is HIS great Baktha.

So sadaks, Nama Sankeerthan takes care of rest of the life to be in

path of divinity.

B. Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

Priya Sadhaks,

 

I have been reading the messages for sometime, wondering how my name

landed up on this group's list. Today I have thought of responding

to the same, based on my limited understanding of Gita.

 

My father used to always read gita everyday till he passed away two

years back. I have also been reading gita for the last several

years. Hopefully, I have understood something about what the lord

says in Gita.

 

At one level, Gita is an amazing scripture providing total guidance

about how to live life. The major discussion as I have noticed in

these mails is about realising god easily and quikly. Another issue

has been about finding a guru.

 

While at one level it is correct to say that one can easily realise

god, but the prerequisite being that the sadhak is in a position to

realise god. After all we are talking about someting that is

spiritual. Question is have we prepared ourselves so as to realise

god. Can we recognise god if he comes to us? In my humble belief

even before a person can talk of realisation, it is important to

develop purity of thought, honesty of words, sincerity of action and

a compassionate heart.

 

A person should try and develop love for every living being and at

the same time try to keep anger, lust, envy, jealousy and greed

away.

 

We need to remember that god is not a physical trophy to be

receieved but it is a goal that can be reached if we prepare

ourselves for the journey (spiritual not physical) within. I

personally believe that once a person starts working with total

devotion in this direction developing the qualities mentioned

earlier, lord will appear sooner than one can believe. However, the

million rupee question remains that unless one has prepared oneself

to receive the lord, a person will not recognise him even if he were

to appear before such a person.

 

So first let us start preparing ourselves for the great journey and

make ourselves worthy of attaining the lotus feet of the Lord. Let

us stop pointing out mistakes of others instead let us try to redeem

ourselves of the several shortcomings each one of us suffers from

and that itself will be a good beginning.

 

These are some of my humble thoughts and if I have offended anybody

my apologies for the same as that is not my intention. After all I

am also a mere seeker on the path of truth.

 

Shivkumar

 

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

 

Am referring to responses made to Mr. Dalmia's improper comments? As

it has been already pointed out, Swamiji Maharaj's messages are very

simple, clear and to the point. His messages are divine since he

experienced the truths himself first and then he spoke, in modern

language, we say - walk the talk. His life is truly an exemplary

one. Most of us know that the work going on in the Gita-talk group

has been possible only through his divine inspiration and blessings.

We all are indebted deeply to this divine soul for his blessings

through of his many discourses and books. In my opinion it would be

a white lie to say that Swamiji was wrong in any of his

utterances.Yes, it is possible that we may not have understood the

true spirit in which the messages wee delivered.

 

On the question - " Easy and Quick Means of God Realization "

Swamiji Maharaj has said in his discourses time and again, yes God

realization is easy and quick, the only thing required is an intense

desire to attain God. What is lacking is the depth of intensity,

people have doubts, especially when it is suggested that something

as simple as this, given that we firmly attainment of God cannot be

so easy and simple.

 

In this context, one time, Swamiji Maharaj was speaking on this very

subject, an incident happened, as one of the devotees (a bank

manager) was listening to Swamiji that attaining to God is so easy,

possible even today it is possible. This gentleman wanted to try

this out, he went home, got his house cleaned and ready with flower

garlands etc. It did not happen that day for him, he was very upset.

Next day Swamiji happened to be taking biksha at his house, he asked

Swamiji that why he was not able to meet with God, yesterday.

Swamiji asked him; by the way, did you by chance doubt that it may

not possibly happen since it sounds so simple. The gentleman said,

yes he had thought exactly that. Swamiji said that he himself had

created the obstacle by doubting that it may not happen since it is

so simple.

 

Gita verse 7-3, says:

" manusyanam saharesu, kascid yatati siddhaye

yatatam api siddhanam, kascin mam vetti tattavatah "

 

Meaning:

Among thousands of men, scarcely one strives for perfection and

those strive and succeed, scarcely one knows Me in essence.

 

As Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjivani, it is not the case that

attainment of God is difficult; the scarcity is that sincere seekers

are so few. It should be like as Meerabai says, " Mere to Giridhar

Gopal dusra no koye " , that exclusive love is the only requirement

 

Ram Ram

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

--------------------------------

My dandavats to all in this forum...

I have just read the post by sadhak Dalmia.....and I am not quite

sure I would take his words to be offensive....I didn't see that he

was putting anyone down...particularly, but attempting to

analyze..Personally, I have heard many times that patience is

extremely important in God Realizatiion....in the instructions of

the Sri Upadesamrta, by Srila Rupa Goswami, verse 3, it is

stated, " utsahan nischayad dairyat " ....English meaning, " There are

six principles favorable for the execution of pure devotional

service....enthusiasm, confidence, patience.... " (the verse

continues with the other half). Why is patience essential if one

is thinking, " I will attain God realization in a moment? " Not

everyone will attain in a moment. Only very few examples have I

heard, one of Ajamila, who saw the Yamaduta's at his bedside, but

then did not leave his body...he was given a second lease on

life.....he went to Hardwar and perfected his sadhan. That " moment "

which is described may be many years, if we are to calculate in

terms of eternity. What is this entire life, of maybe 100 years (if

we are fortunate) but a moment in the course of eternal existence?

Also, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, by grandfather spiritual

master, had a math in India....one time some villagers came, wanting

to live in Math. He agreed, and gave them the service of planting

eggplants. They were shocked.... " We have come here to plant

eggplants? We could have done this from home. " They then left the

math. So, they had no patience to understand, there are many

valuable lessons we will learn by living here, staying in

association of sadhus.....they left because they could not

appreciate the deeper lesson of patience.

I think that Mr. Dalmia made a very good point, about this forum

being for general inspiration, as it has a very broad audience. To

inspire, to enliven the mind for discussion, it is extremely

valuable in my opinion. One should never feel that debate on

transcendental topic has no point, provided the respondents are

respectful. Did Mr Dalmia say anywhere that he did not think this

forum was valuable?

Also, I find it interesting, that although many in the forum refuse

to accept themselves as any type of guru, the general mood of other

supporters, which I believe is correct, is to offer the respect and

defense as if they were defending their guru. I am not in any way

discouraging this, because I believe in the concept of guru. And I

accept many here to be acting, for me, as siksha guru. But I am

questioning whether the words of sadhak Dalmia were

misunderstood. Is there anywhere he said that he did not

appreciate having this venue for discussion? He pointed out that

for some individuals, more specific guidance is necessary, I agree

with that completely.

In regard to my question about the various yogas, " good

thoughts " , etc. giving God realization, perhaps there is a much

deeper angle to my question. What level of God realization does an

individual want? Any level of person can understand, if they want

to believe in the presence of a Supreme Being, that if He is

inconceivable, then certainly He can be present in every atom. But

isn't there a higher level, which some will achieve, of knowing God

as a person? Not everyone will understand and recognize that He is

able to manifest Himself in this world, or any other world, and have

loving relationships with those who have surrendered their hearts to

Him, in the mood of mother, or brother, sister, friend, wife, girl-

friend, etc. So, depending on what level of God realization one

wants, one may need to seek guidance from guru. And some may

not....they may start as very young children, seeing their Dearmost

friend sitting next to them, having conversations with Him, knowing

Him to be by their side always. This is only due to previous life

connection, that from child-hood, or upon hearing that it is

possible, one will immediately accept this connection without any or

very lttle guidance.

Accepting formality of guru is not the biggest concern, for

many. For many it is to learn to discriminate between where truth

can be found....and as many have said, to see every where that we

must learn to hear Lord Krishna speaking to us, or God in whatever

form we call Him. Then, when a true guru is manifest, one will have

the sukrti (pious credits in the heart) to know he has found someone

from the transcendental world.

I am glad that moderators printed Mr Dalmia's submission, I do

not see that he was attacking, but trying to express that a doubt he

had was not cleared up. The expression, " You can achieve God

realization in a moment " is not false, but one must come to the

level of understanding (which takes patience) that a moment can be

thousands of years if one examines the quality

of " sat " ......eternity.....we have no beginning or end.

Many thanks to all for kindly hearing my humble presentation.

Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Priya Sadhaks

 

The comments of Mr Dalmia are absolutely shocking. Look how a

brain carries the hatred about a Saint of the class of Swamiji

merely because Mr Dalmiaji could not grasp by his mind the teachings

and greatness of Swamiji. Such postings should be screened by

Moderators and not of Jee Jee Shashikalajee's postings. She gives

momentum to the deliberations. She does not like a parrot keep

utterring same words - Desire, 3 yogas, time needed and that is

all.She brings new practical thoughts.

 

Please , Dalmiaji, in this " ghor kaliyuga " when 14000 people are

having satsanga in such a sober manner, please allow them to do so.

We are happy with whatever we are reading from Swamiji, Vyasji,

Mike, Sarvottamji, Mira Dasji, Papruniaji, Satyanarainji and dozens

like them. Hari Mohan Deoji , Rakshitaji all are clear headed. I

benefit immensely.. We( I and I am sure many like me) are able to

understand and appreciate their views. What is then the problem? Let

us have this divine Satsanga.

 

Many of you do not know what benefits I have got by implementing

some suggestions of Jee Jee Shashikalaji, Sarvottamji, Mike,

Rajendraji and Vyasji. Such an elite club in such terrible times-

God's Grace is there on this web site, no doubt.

 

Sadhaks - please follow Swamiji. You will benefit immensely. Why

blindly ? Apply your mind and logic. Who says no ? If you don't

have mind, then go blindly. But we all have minds, Jee ! Isn't it

Jee Jee ?

 

M M Purohit

---------------------------

Priya Sadhaks

 

I have been reading the messages of this divine web site and

immensely like the depth of answers by some sadhaks- Vyasji, Mike

Keenor, Sarvottamji, Gurudassaniji, Mira Dassji, Sathyanarainji -

all sterling messages.. I think the comments of A H Dalmia are

unfortunate and baseless perhaps arising out of ignorance. There was

nothing which Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj could not answer. It is

unfortunate that we are not able to comprehend the discourses of

such a rare and great Saint. Perhaps reliance on murky mind is

responsible for the same. Frankly, I found nothing wrong in what

another sadhak referred by him wrote in the past. Mr Dalmiaji,

kindly take the time to understand the sadhak's message- my humble

view.

 

Beenani S

------------------------------

Jai Shree Ram

 

There is nothing wrong in the comments made by Hari Mohan Deo and

Rakshita Mehta. Mahalaxmiji is confused unnecessarily. Also comments

of A H Dalmia are leaving a bitter taste in mouth. Swamiji

Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never tell a lie just to encourage

sadhaks to believe that God Realisation is not difficult. This very

thought of Dalmia is wrong and is merely ego/mind generated. There

was also nothing wrong in the statements made by a sadhak and quoted

by A H Dalmia. Question at that point was " What is Bhajan " .

Certainly bhajan is not chanting the name of God alone. One must

read the entire context to understand. I request moderator to screen

Mr Dalmia's postings to avoid misleading the sadhak. How the

question of " sadhak " and " siddha " arose? What is the relevance ?

Please let us enjoy Satsanga as it is. Please do not caution us. We

have enough discrimination with us to understand what is good and

what is bad. God forgives not a disrespect to His devotees /

Saints. Never forget this.

 

Respects

 

Chesta Vinod

--------------------------

IN ENGLISH

Blessed are the Great Souls !

What Dalmiaji has written is very unfortunate. He must not write

such comments about saints such as Swamiji. The flaw is in

Dalmiaji's thoughts. Why don't you share a great thought in this

wonderful and pure forum (gita talk)? Please open your eyes and

everything will start to become clear.

 

IN HINDI

Dhanya ho mahapurush

Dalmiaji ne bhi likha hai woh atyant durbhagyapoorvak hai.

Dalmiaji ko iss terah ke comment swamiji jaise sant ke baare main

nahin likhni chahiye . Kisi sadhak ne kuchh bhi galat nahin likha.

Galti dalmiyaji ke vicharo main hai. Dalmiya ji aap kuchh badhia

baat bataiye to sahee. Is geeta talk jaisi Pavitra jagah. Ankhen

Kholiye sab dikhaai dena suru ho jayega. Open your eyes.

Ramchander

--------------------------

Hari Om

 

Mahalaxmiji. The comments of Rakshitaji are not wrong. You have not

understood them. Please read them carefully- once again. Yes by

right thoughts, by meditation, by good karmas also you can reach

God. That is called Karma Yoga. Meditation is part of Dhyaan Yoga.

Nothing wrong Rakshitaji has written. You cant practice Karma Yoga

without right thoughts and good/ sattwik karmas. There is a system

of those karmas getting converted into " Akarmas " as per Gitaji.

Meditation gives you strength to disconnect with the inert. It is a

separate independent method of God Realisation. Read Gita regularly.

All types of methods are there- some delay , some are fast, some are

super fast. There is no need of any particular Guru at any point of

time. Guru when needed comes in your life and opens eyes of a

genuine , serious sadhak. God has given this human birth, is that

God so miser that He would expect you to search for a Guru ? With

the human birth He has given you everything which is required by you

for God Realisation. You are wasting your time by thinking about

Guru. Please keep reading and oblige us all. In every happening a

Guru is hidden. Keep your mental antennas open and receptive. Read

more.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH

Prostration to you ! Dalmiaji's remarks appear to indicate jealousy

and hatred, and do not hold much weight. He must read good

scriptures, books, Gita etc, as this is the age to do so. Let us do

all satsang. [shivkumar naravat]

 

IN HINDI

aap ko dandvat

dalmia ji ke remarks bahut jealousy and hatredful hain. kuchh vajan

nahin hai unki baaton main. dalmia ji ko khud ko acche

granth,books,gita,padhani chahiye. abhi unke padhane ki umar hai.

hamko satsanga karane deejiye.

[shivkumar naravat]

 

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

Question is that how you can realise God in a quick time. Answer is

that as soon as you firmly determine that " I am of God, only God is

mine and nothing else is mine " you are on the fastest track to reach

Him. But the determination should be very firm and must be adhered

to. Just As : A newly married girl , once she accepts I am not

bachelor , she never thereafter considers otherwise or forgets her

acceptance level. This is all is needed. It may take a second of

time or it may take aeons and kalpas for you to decide so. Unless

you do that , there may be great karmas by you- but not the God

Realisation.

 

In His discourse on 6th June, 1994 Swamiji gave a beautiful example

of the solidity of acceptance, when it is made by SELF. He rarely

talked about Himself. In this discourse, He stated that once He had

a dream. In that dream, He dressed like a woman ( Saree/blouse etc)

and went to Durga Temple for worship. He said that in the dream

also, there was a fear existing in Him that He should not touch any

female or by mistake no female should touch Him ! He laughed in the

discourse , stated that inspite of His being in a female dress, and

being a female in the dream, the acceptance made by SELF was so

powerful. He stressed that this is how the acceptance by SELF works.

I don't have any means of verifying this information , but He once

said that a Suhagan (married woman with husband alive) never sees

herself as widow in the dream even. He also said that once you are

married, barring a one or two dreams in the beginning, you never

feel in the dream also yourself to be bachelor. This is the power of

acceptance. Your acceptance " Mere to Girdhar Gopal , Doosara na koi "

has to be that solid. The moment you do so, instantly, you BECOME

DHARMATMA (Gita 9:31). Your all actions then change the course.

 

Frankly, it is as easy and as quick as that ! If you cant be that

firm then aeons may pass ( In fact they have passed for us before

today) but we will be no where near that element.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gurdasaniji,

 

According to me, while we all revere Swamiji, there is no need to

follow his words blindly. Also in my opinion, there is no need to

hesitate in questioning his statement. The main reason for that is

that it is not possible for us to understand what may have been the

context or what was his real motive in making that statement. As far

as I understand the only motive of Swamiji to make such a statement

could be to encourage us, because it is generally accepted and

understood that 'God Realisation' is difficult and takes time.

Besides, despite reading characters of so many bhaktas, I have not

found one who would satisfy the statement made by Swamiji. I can

also state that I had the opportunity to request Swamiji to give one

example indicating God Realisation is easy and instant.

Unfortunately, according to me, I did not get an answer, leading me

to believe that statement must have been made only to encourage the

sadhaks.

 

Further, it needs to be clearly understood that this is a forum

of " Sadhaks " and not " Siddhas " . So each sadhak will be able to

advise only on the basis of his own experience and knowledge. It is

also possible that a sadhak may advise something that may even be

misleading. We need to screen the same and not take that as the last

word on the subject. I say this because in one case some sadhaks

even considered " Naam Smaran " (without understading what 'smaran' -

which is different from mere chanting - means) as useless and

compared it with a tape recorder or a parrot, who will not reach

salvation. I quote such discourses as below

 

" Bhajan is not " tota ratan " (parrot like chanting-without

mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got

liberated. In practical life also we find many " bhajananandis " who

like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness

peace/bliss/radiance in them. "

 

" Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and

then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !

again you wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not

bhajan. It is an action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and

runs after the mind. He accepts suggestion of mind that realisation

is a slow and gradual process. Mind enjoys freedom. Self becomes

indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self continues to be

of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a

faithful servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a

machine rarely makes a mistake). "

 

We can only take pity on such sadhak's unfortunate understanding

(but at the same time respecting their right to believe in same). We

need to make an honest attempt to practice what appeals to us.

 

Notwithstanding what I have said above, please note that the

starting point of the journey is first to have desire to achieve

god. The duration of the journey depends on the intensity of that

desire. As far as the question of sadhana is concerned, there are

three alternatives - Gyan Yog, Karma Yog and Bhakti Yog. One can not

say which suits an individual the most. Best for an individual is to

read Gitaji and decide what appeals to him the most and start that

practice. Please note that Gitaji is a live granth. It answers the

questions of the sadhak like one would expect from a guru.

 

One more important thing I would like to point out. Mass discourses

are for masses and not individuals. When a sadhak starts sadhana, it

will be important for him to seek the path that suits him most

according to his personal inclination. This always must be on one to

one basis.

 

Now comes the question as to how to find a Guru. This is a very

tricky question because now a days there are gurus by the dozen

looking for shishyas. Hence, let us start with 'Krishnam Vande Jagat

Gurum'.

 

A.H.Dalmia

-----------------------------

 

jai latiyal

 

In English

 

We are stuck on one point and that is, nothing can happen without

practice. We therefore think that Self Realization is also through

practice, but in reality, this divine knowledge is not through one's

effort and practice. Through effort / practice we reach a new state

(condition), not enlightenment. Nor can detach from the world. This

point on needs to inquire deeply into it. God realization is

something that is instant. Just like when you want to walk on a

rope, it needs lot of practice, but 2 and 2 are what? For that it

does not require lot of effort. There is no effort in that. There

is a major difference between effort/practice and

realization/experiential knowledge. There is no experiential

knowledge through effort, but a new condition is created. God

Realization is beyond a particular state/condition. Realization of

essential Self is beyond practice/effort. Realization of Self

(Essence) is not the name of a particular state, because wherever

there is a particular state / condition, there is also a

progression, an ending. Realization is beyond a state and also

beyond a period of time (i.e. with ending), in fact it is beyond

both and it is also not lacking in stillness (esthirtaah)

 

[shivkumar naravat]

 

In Hindi

Hum logo ke ander ek baat jachi hu-e hein ki her ek kam

 

Abhayash se ho ta hein. Tatavgyan bhi abhayash se ho ga vastav

mein tatavgyan abhayash se nahi hota Abhayash se ek naye ishtithi

[condition] banthi hein. [bodh nahi hota]

 

Sansar se shambadh viched na hi ho ta. Yeh bhahut manna karne ki

bhat hein. Parmatma-prapti tatkal ho ne wali vashtu hein Jese rassi

ke uper chalna ho tho abhyash karna padega. Kintu do or do kitna

hotha hein iskey li ye abhyash ki jarurat nahi hogi. Is mai abhyash

ho ta hi nahi. Abhyash or anubhav mein bada anter hein abhyash se

anubhav nahi hota. Balki ek naye shtithi banti hein. Parmatamatatva

ishtithi se atit hein.

 

Swaroop ka bodh abhayash se sidh ho ne wali chij hein hi naien

abhayash se naye ishtithi banti hein jab ki tatav ishtithi se atit

hein. Tatav bodh ki si ishtithi ka name nahi hein jaha ishtithi ho

ji vaha gatti bhi hogi yeh niyam hein. Tatav ishtithi or gatti do no

se atit hein tatav mein na ishtithi hein. Na gatti hein na

eshthirta hein.

 

[shivkumar naravat]

 

---------------------------

My dandavats to all in this fourm,

I am very surprised that one sadhak has stated that one can

achieve God through right thought, karma, and meditation. Please

explain, as I cannot understand how this can be true. Karma,

which is pertaining to good and bad reactions on a material

platform, is a thing of the material world...not the transcendental

world....how can we achieve that which is beyond this world simply

by acting on a karmic level? Or good thought, the Supreme

Absolute Truth can be achieved by good thought? What if my good

thought is killing animals and feeding them to starving

people.....thinking that I am doing good to feed the starving?

There are many people in the world who think like this.....they have

absolutely no sense that to kill animals is bad thought....so, the

point is, who sets the starndard for good thought? If we say Krsna

does, why should we not also accept that He states one should accept

a guru, and render loving service? Why only accept part of what He

says?

Please forgive me if my words cause any offense....I am asking

for clarification of statements made....if there is deeper

understanding that I don't know, to substantiate the claim that God

can be achieved through karma, good deeds, and meditation, please

kindly present some scriptural evidence. Even in regard to

meditation...some say that if you meditate on a chair, a rock,

anything at all, you will achieve God....perhaps there will be some

appreciation for the power of God to create these things...but how

will that type of meditation give understanding of the Personality

of Godhead? If the answer is that one must take direction as to how

to meditate, what type of meditation, well......then one is turning

to another as guru to give guidance in meditation It is unavoidable.

 

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

----------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

dear divine souls a human being howmuch ever

follows all the rituals and divine practices of praying god only

comes from the outer experiences ie what other people say about

god.Did u ever imagined that rituals and dhram is what u do.This has

been clearly explained by lord Krishna that what right decision ur

mind takes to resolve a issue and which satisfies everyone is what

dharma.

Lord says that i dont want any thing in lumpsum from u " Only Patram,

Pushpam " given to me with utmost devotion makes me feel more happy.

So dear souls it is ur own thoughts and ur own feelings for god

which will help u to attain god realisation. As said by Lord ur all

my ansh so ansh can never be seprated from anshi ie lord so the

divine feeling that i am his and he is mine and the rest is an

illusion will surely lead u to ur ultimate goal to reach god.

This body doesnt belong to u.This is 101% true this has been

discussed in our previous discoussions.For example take any

electricity equipment example light once the switch is on we get the

lighting and as soon as the switch is off we experiece darkness why?

because it was the source of electricity through which we were

benefited so far as soon as it is over we are out of source.So as

dear once our Spiritual switch is on we expericne gyan in every good

and bad happenings and once we forget our Lord our existence agyan

captures our mind. So dear keep on thinking lord keep on chanting his

name with " Shraddha and Patience " .One day my dear god father himself

will come to u and say " O son know come to me i had been waiting for

u " .

 

So never think of fruit just keep on chanting " Jai Shree Krishna " .

He is there in every aspect of ur life

He is there in everything u do.

He is u and u are in him.

This is what called Sadhna dear. wait wait and keep in waiting

like shabriji one day he has to come to his dear ones.

With lots of best wishes

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Rakshita Mehra

--------------------

No Guru can may take you to God. You have to do it yourself through

right thought and karma and through meditation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------

my dandavat pranams to all in this forum

In regard to question at hand, I would ask, isn't it true that by

coming to this forum, looking for answers, accepting truth (or

analyzing statements as untruth), we are searching for guru? We are

learning, by associating with various persons, what is their

character, their basis for speaking, their mood. Isn't it true that

we are looking for inspiration from a person, whom, through their

association, can uplift and direct us? Guru is not a bad

thing.....bad thing is when an individual claims to be guru, but does

not live life solely for the satisfaction of his/her own guru, and

God. Also bad thing is when prospective disciple (all of us) are not

willing to become discerning students. Too eager to make oneself a

blind follower, for whatever reason. To ask questions and be

hesitant to give one's heart is an intelligent quality....disciples

should not be foolish. Then they will be cheated. Nor should they

be blind to the instructions of shastra....wherein it is emphasized,

(Gita 4.34... " Just try to learn the truth by approaching a bona fide

spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service

unto him. A self realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because

he has seen the truth " ....Scripture states that diksa guru is one,

but siksha guru may be many. One who is already elevated in

knowledge can take instruction from every situation, from every

person, even from animals, plants, insects. He is always

learning...but this make take some time to understand. so, in the

interum, if one needs a specific person to call guru, this is, in the

opinion of the scripture, very good path. By developing the serving

mood, one will grow in one's heart. EVEN if the person selected is

not on the topmost level of love of God, (uttama adhikari) if the

disciple/student has a mood of love, of service, etc....he/she will

understand that " let me simply be grateful for as far as this person

can take me.....if I see ungodly qualities, let me not fault find,

but try to keep searching for inspiration....always with gratitude in

my heart for whatever this one or that one has given me. Scripture

has also told, sometimes siksha guru (instructing spiritual master)

is more prominent in life of disciple....sometimes diksha guru

(initiating spiritual master ) is more prominent......the essence is

to constantly be praying to the Supreme Lord, " please let me find

someone with deep realization, high level of love for you, whom I can

serve and associate with. " True guru will never demand money, he

will only inspire others to give, if they are so moved from within,

for projects such as temples, book distribution, food distribution,

etc. Never money for himself to live lavishly.

Respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

-------------------------

 

 

Priy Sadhaks,

In Bhagwad Gitaji Ch.8/14...

Krishnji says I am easly available to them who continuously remembers

me in every aspect of life.

Ch.9/33-34 Clearly inidicates come in my refuge, talk to me, submit

every action to me, remember me in this life of human which has

nothing but

sorrow, full of uncertainity.

Clearly invites in Ch.18/66. Come to my refuge I will take care of

every dharm,

karm & mukti. The problem is we dont rely, believe on gods words, on

the

contrary in this life we easily believe on anyboby who seems to be

of our

concern. I ask even without believing,

god takes care then what a beautifully blissfully will be the

situation that we

start believing god in every smallest act of our life. for instance

we are

breathing It is due to gods grace

we can digest what we eat and all parts of our body are functioning

well It is due to gods grace. Even we can feel our heart beats and

thank god

for this worderfully instrument in our body.

like all these start from smallest & we wonder we start remembering

god in every act in due course. Why then god realisation is

difficult?

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------

The answer to Q3 is in the gita:

 

abhyasa yoga uktena

chetasa nanya gamina

paramam purusham divyam

yati parthanu chintayan

 

Chatper 8.10(I think)

 

KKM

------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

 

According to me the process of attaining realization takes time Not

quickly. Buddha toiled for years. One Vaishnavite Guru Ramanujam

took years to

get to know how to say, " Om Namo Narayanaya " . All Alwars, Nayanmars,

Bakthas

spents years full time to see Bagavan.

Tukaram in his abang sings, " Bagavan YOU are not realized for yogies

doing tapas many years, YOU are not realizable parama purushas, but

Bagavan your

grace showered on me to day'. I am not discouraging.

Tukaram was nobody other than Sant Namadev.

Bagavan in Geetha says, for one reach me by sadanas, may take few

births, but if I (Bagavan) makes sankalpa, I (Bagavan) can uplift

one in the

same birth. That is quickest.

Sadanas leads to Bakthi and simultaneously gives occult powers to

which many gurus or sadaks becomes pray, as such it takes several

births to

reach HIM. Only when Bakthi matures it turns to Niskama Prema

Bakthi. This stage

Bagavan is behind Baktha.

Example:

Baktha Gora, Snena Nayak, Chota Mela, Sant Sakubai etc in Panderpur

where Panduranga literally worked in their house and was with them.

They were

not regular temple goer. In Tirumala Hills, where Bagavan went to

their place of

stay leaving sanctum sanctorum, was THat Ram Baba and Malayala

swamy. By reading

these great men history, one can get shortest way to reach HIM,

because they

showed certain principles on which Bagavan gets closer.

Gurus are there. But Sat Guru is difficult. Who is Sat Guru? Adi

Sankara says, The one who speaks only of God realization, has only

one dress to

change, goes to Biksha NOT more than five houses, does not keep

anything for

next day, does not get accustomed to one place, NO dislikes and

likes. The same

thing Bagavan says as

Guna Theethan BG. Sat Guru comes to one who` s mind and intellect

(Chitta,

Buddhi and Manas) are pure. When that purity takes place Pancha

gosas, Pancha

Pranas automatically becomes pure, thereby

making change in whole body system. This type of person when walks

his radiation of Satvikness has effect of 12 Km radius, thereby one

can see a

loin running behind pray just stops remaining silent. Examples:

Swamy Narayana,

Adi Sankara, Buddha, and our Bagavan

Sri Krishna. Simplest Bakthi: Do pooja and offering with care and

love. Get

fragrant flowers, chop off stem/thorny branches, make garland as

soft as

possible to the extent if you wear it for

hours it should be comfortable and pleasant. Offer fruits nicely chop

into pieces taking care to see whether they taste good and has no

slightest

fungus marks, offer banana like they serve to you in five star hotel

with stem

neatly cut, sing song what you know with full

mind, shed two drop tears.

Example: Mother Maha Lakshmi came as Sri Andal to earth to do this to

Sri Vishnu. Sabari In Ramayan did this. Hanuman did this. Some

Bakthas of recent

years did this. Quick realization; IS only surrender to Bagavan

(Saranagathi)

When one surrenders, he will

not find fault with anybody or anything, (half way through) he will

mingle in Sat Sangh, apart from daily routine he will not see TV,

mix in worldly

matters, spend time in talking etc, Example: Kabir Doss was once had

guests

Gyneswar and Namdev late night. He

rushed to get some flour (Mava) for Roti. The provision shop wala

asked for

money to buy them. Kabir had No money then and asked for loan. Shop

wala refused

as Kabir said he had nothing at that time. Shop wala asked Kabir to

lend his

beautiful wife for Mava and Ghee.

Kabir did so and took Mava. But shop keeper closing the doors with

Kabir` s

wife, 2 police jawans knocked the doors, beaten shop wala and took

kabir wife to

her house door step. When Kabir in dismay asked how she came, she

described that

2 person matching to Sri Rama and Lakshmana. Kabir wife was blessed

first with Sri Rama Dharshan than Kabir. Jayadevar while doing

Abishek to small idol of Sri Krishna at home, his wife Padmavathi

use to say, " do slowly and give gap of pouring milk on Krishna as

the child (Krishna) may suffer suffocation. " For This Manasa Bakthi

and love, Bagavan gave Dharshan first to Padmavathi.

Dear Sadaks to think and say of Bagavan time and words has NO limit.

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

ORIGINAL DETAIL QUESTION

Priy Sadhak vrand,

 

I have been with this group for quite a long time and have witnessed

quite a questions.

I was contemplating on Swamiji's messages that God's attainment is

very easy, simple and quick. Today when people have complicated

lives & minds, they think that God's attainment (realization) is

very complicated and only Gurus can do it for them. Resultant is so

many said Gurus have emerged like mushrooms and have started their

business of making God attainment possible.

 

QUESTION 1:

I want to ask why sadhaks should not discuss simplest form of bhakti

and means of realization by this powerful medium of group

 

Raja Gurdasani

 

QUESTION 2:

How can man very quickly attain realization of Paramaatma?

In Hindi

MANUSHYA KO JALDHI PARMATAMA PRAPTI KAI SE HO?

(RAMCHANDRA)

 

QUESTION 3:

Can one quickly attain realization through repeated study and

spiritual practices ?

 

KYA SUGAMTAAH POORVAK, ABHYAS SE BHODH HO SAKTA HEIN ?

(RAMCHANDRA)

 

 

 

--------------------------

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