In this world, what is the greatest wonderment / astonishment of all?

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

 

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, responses

which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

the area of focus.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged. Wherever

possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures.

3. Please be as concise and to the point, addressing only the

subject at hand, thus respecting sadhaka's time. Please limit

response to half a book page (3-4 paragraphs).

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

6. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to sites).

7. Kindly do not include personal information - phone #, address etc.

8. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

9. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

10. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting deemed irrelevant to the core

discussion (e.g. personal information, opinions / feelings etc.)

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, responses

which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

the area of focus.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged. Wherever

possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures.

3. Please be as concise and to the point, addressing only the

subject at hand, thus respecting sadhaka's time. Please limit

response to half a book page (3-4 paragraphs).

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

6. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to sites).

7. Kindly do not include personal information - phone #, address etc.

8. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

9. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

10. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting deemed irrelevant to the core

discussion (e.g. personal information, opinions / feelings etc.)

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, responses

which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

the area of focus.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged. Wherever

possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures.

3. Please be as concise and to the point, addressing only the

subject at hand, thus respecting sadhaka's time. Please limit

response to half a book page (3-4 paragraphs).

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

6. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to sites).

7. Kindly do not include personal information - phone #, address etc.

8. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

9. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

10. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting deemed irrelevant to the core

discussion (e.g. personal information, opinions / feelings etc.)

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

 

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

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2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged. Wherever

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Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

10. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

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11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Re: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment / astonishment of

all?

 

 

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Shivkumar,

 

It is extremely difficult to answer your question! Wonderments are so

many and to grade them and point out one among them as the greatest

of wonderments is something, at least for me, is not possible!

 

* We see people die day in and day out, yet we think we will go on

living for ever and do not attempt to follow the Path of Shreyas!

 

* Ishavasyopanishad starts bang with the advice that everything

belongs to God and so one should not grab what is others " due " ;Yet

we have businessmen and politicians amassing wealth for generations

to sit and eat, worse stilL to commit atrosities and enjoy!

 

* We attend a Satsang and come out appreciating the discourser, but

without dropping a Kotha (not valid) coin even in the hundi, while it

is said " kuch paane ke liye, kuch khona hai " , " never receive anything

free " , " shriya deyam, Bhiya deyam... " etc!

 

* " Help ever, hurt never " it is said, where what most of us do

is " Hurt freely, Help seldom " !

 

* Every spiritual speaker and every scripture drill in us that we

should cultivate " Atma bhava (consciousness of the self) and

not 'Deha Bhava (Body consciousness), but what we decorate and adore

is our body of muscles, blood and stink and not the pure and pious

atma!

 

We can go on and on without end, isn't it, but yet not be sure which

is less greater!

Yet your question is good and great, for it will make one think deep!

 

Regards.

Prof Ramanujam.

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

For the benefit of all, The story Michaelji has listed come from Yoga

Vasishtha. I recommend that all spiritual aspirant must read this

book at least once. I read (reading continues for ever...) -

Vashishtah's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda and I found it very

beneficial in understanding my own mind. Yes, unfolding of who you

are is the most wonderful thing and at the same time study of mind,

its tricks, its way to pull us down, etc. are very surprising to

study.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

 

Hari Om

 

Michael

 

You have indeed presented to all of us , the true and real story of

each of us. All sadhaks should feel grateful to you. Sadhaks like

Michael and our Mike Keenor are real and respectable examples of

how a soul gallops towards the TRUTH once a desire or need has arisen

in it to find out the Divine . Soul recognises not any distinctions

of caste, creed, colour, country,. A burning desire is more than

enough to progress in spiritual uplifting.

 

This story in the first reading appears " mindless " though it is

exclusively about the " mind " - a funny story but very serious. For

serious sadhaks such stories set an order, a process of " sadhana " ….

And lead them straight to their goal- freedom from pain /sorrow …

systematically … step by step. For intelligent people such stories

are a challenge , a riddle, a reminder ! It is too brief in size but

too big in effect- like an arrow.

 

This story covers substance of . Soul ( SAT) , Conscience,. Jeeva,

Ego, Mind, Intellect, Destiny, Svabhav ( nature/habit) , Jagat (

World), Worldly Pleasures, Pain of the soul, Desires, MAYA ( Avidya,

agyaan, darkness, illusion, ignorance, stupidity, jugglery, ) ,

Knowledge ( CHIT, gyaan, light ) , Bondage, Liberation, , and

Jagdish ( God, Paramatma, ANANDA,- Divine, natural, absolute not

relative-, BLISS, PEACE ) This story is timeless. When we come

across such ocean deep stories , we cant help feeling proud of our

Religion, Saints and Sages, Heritage, and Holy Scriptures of eternal

Sanatan Dharma.

 

This " gaagar main saagar " ( Ocean in water pot) story first

thoroughly agitates and astonishes even the best of the human egos,

intellects and minds ; then gives them a powerful shock ; then

pacifies /satisfies/floors them fully. And then of course silences

them . In the end it makes YOU meet YOURSELF in SAT CHIT ANANDA

FORM.!

 

This story is the state of JIVA in his present form and is applicable

to all of us. It starts with Bondage and ends with Liberation and the

JIVA claiming the SATCHITANANDA FORM of Paramatma. Nothing explains

more eloquently the role of MAYA than this powerful short story. Who

else can be the writer of this story than CONSCIENCE which is direct

agent of Paramatma living in the human body along with JIVA ? Like

two birds on a tree – referred once by Mike Keenor in one of his

messages !! Who else can hold the soul so powerfully and ask such

direct questions than CONSCIENCE ?

 

It is from one of the most respected Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma –

called YOGA VAASHISHTHA - where Sage Vaashishtha teaches Lord

Rama .

 

Balance in next message. In the meantime serious sadhaks should re

read this story – seriously & peacefully, in order to gain out of it.

The best way to read it is to " feel " it so that your mind becomes a

scene and you become the seer and your conscience starts

responding. " To feel " – put yourself into equanimous zone in which

zone your conscience always resides – be like a court judge- no

personal likings / dislikings. Read it as a challenge to your mental

equipment. Believe for once in what ever clues I have given here in

above.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gita

Life is greatest wonder inthe universal

if some body undestand it he will understand universe.

 

Hoshu Hameedullah

--------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Naravat Sahab, I have one question. Which Lord's name is Latiyal? I

don't know, never heard of it before.

 

About your question,

Please enlighten us that by knowing the greatest astonishment of this

world, how will it benefit you spiritually or otherwise. I am unable

to decipher the purpose of this question.

 

Thanks,

Varun Paprunia

--------------------------

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

GUIDELINES FOR POSTING A RESPONSE:

 

1. The group is focused on the Holy Gitaji, therefore, responses

which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will be

the area of focus.

2. Making reference of Gitaji shloka is highly encouraged. Wherever

possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures.

3. Please be as concise and to the point, addressing only the

subject at hand, thus respecting sadhaka's time. Please limit

response to half a book page (3-4 paragraphs).

4. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

5. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations (we do not have the bandwidth to review links to

determine if content is appropriate for distribution).

6. Complete reproduction of texts from any book is strongly

discouraged, however partial cut - paste is acceptable and

references may be made of the book or author(but not links to sites).

7. Kindly do not include personal information - phone #, address etc.

8. Please use appropriate judgement and only address the response to

a particular individual, where it makes sense to do so.

9. Due to the large readership, only those responses will be posted

which are in line with the general philosophy of taking Shrimad

Bhagavad Gita as the reference.

10. Moderator will reject any content that does not meet guidelines.

However, for expediency, moderator at his discretion, may modify /

delete portions of the posting deemed irrelevant to the core

discussion (e.g. personal information, opinions / feelings etc.)

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use of only

Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Re: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment / astonishment of

all?

 

 

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Falling prey to " Maya " is the most astonishing wonderment in my view.

 

Some supplementary thoughts to the story explained by Tamma

Bhaiyya :

 

In the forest of worldly life our mind gets confused Jee ! and

there is a fear arising naturally in us because basically we are

permanent/ complete/never changing/ blissful - avinaashi/sahaj

sukhraasi Jee !!! But the world that this mind is attached to is - temporary /

incomplete/deficient/ever changing/ ever sorrowful !!

 

Because of " svabhaav " (habits/individual attraction to the nature)

and past deeds/karma (association with strangers i.e the world) - we

desire worldly things and pleasure Jee !

 

Our desires are many, but as such only one Jee! ... Whatever we

think through mind .. Must happen Jee! The desires come in the form

of " my likings " ( Raag) and " my dislikings " (Dvesha). However, the

bitter truth is that simply by desiring we cannot get " worldly

pleasures " Jee, we can only get Daddy ! But that Daddy is

beyond " mind " Jee. Worldly pleasures are " natural " to mind, because mind belongs

to the world Jee, so does intellect and ego Jee( notion of me/mine). This mind

(which I had said before is better if thrown in the dustbin) seeks world and

worldly pleasures only Jee.

 

This mind cheats us Jee in this regard. We like absolute fools believe that

" desiring " is necessary for getting worldly things. We forget under the illusion

caused by me/mine notion ( MAYA) that while we don't desire sickness or death or

adversity, still we get it Jee. Even highly educated people, possessing a

thousand hands and eyes, say - " You must desire. The world will come to a

grinding

hault if you stop desiring Jee. They think that if you don't have desires, you

are dead " Jee!

 

What a belief, Jee !! How wonderful, Jee!! How surprising !! As if

they desired to take birth, to grow, to fall sick, to deteriorate,

to die and as if they really selected their parents, children,

spouses, relatives, circumstances, situations, incidences, states,

happennings, colour, caste, creed, country, time, age !!! WHAT A

MAYA ! WHAT AN ILLUSION !!

 

That the most astonishing wonderment in human life, Jee! Maya !

Ignorance!! Stupidity !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

There is nothing greater than Paramatma. Whatever great thing you

have received, Paramatma is greater than even that. If you get

anything greater than Paramatma (surprisingly), then please,

immediately share will all of us, so that we also come to know. But

as such there is not such a thing, or else it would have not escaped

Swamiji's sight. Thank you !

 

Sarvottam

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

1. THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN

 

This world is the forest in which we all, with minds, wander about.

It is a forest because with the cool air and beauty of nature ,

there are thorns also. There are wild animals also and chances of

our getting lost too. Being forest there are no ways visible. We

have to make our own ways. All the beauty and dangers of forest are

present in human life. - of every body- no exceptions.

 

2 WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED, THAT FEARFUL ONE

 

We are not peaceful. We are confused - constantly seeking pleasure

and happiness. We are fearful. We don't know what the next moment

might have in store for us. We may die anytime, anywhere. We are

confused as well as fearful because we are basically split at the

sub conscience level. While body, mind, ego etc " natuarally " remain

estalished in prakrithi (world/nature) only being part of them, but

we don't belong to nature. It is law that fear develops when one

enters the arena to which he doesnot belong or ONLY when when is in

company of " others " .. When we get attracted/connected

with " stranger/other " world, fear and confusion stick with us

permanently, (which fear goes ONLY when we disconnect from world).

Constant changes and uncertainties of the world also make us

confused and fearful.

 

3 WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

We are equipped in this forest with sharp intellect and vision,

imagination of mind. With capacity to work hard, and control other

species, animals, and fellow men ( a thousand hands) and an

exceptional vision ( a thousand eyes) we set about in this world to

seek pleasure and peace. We seek help of mind. We make efforts to

fulfill our desires.We want to be the best, the wealthiest, the most

intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the healthiest, the greatest.

We want to have every worldly comfort which our Dear and our own

mind can conceive! We don't want to lose. We always want to win. We

are proud of our mind and our intellect (vision). Mind gives a

solution to our eternal desire of being peaceful and happy. DESIRE

FOR WORLDLY THINGS. Since we like mind, we have connected with mind,

WE ACCEPT the suggestions of mind. We start seeking worldly

pleasures.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Shivkumar,

 

It is extremely difficult to answer your question! Wonderments are so

many and to grade them and point out one among them as the greatest

of wonderments is something, at least for me, is not possible!

 

* We see people die day in and day out, yet we think we will go on

living for ever and do not attempt to follow the Path of Shreyas!

 

* Ishavasyopanishad starts bang with the advice that everything

belongs to God and so one should not grab what is others " due " ;Yet

we have businessmen and politicians amassing wealth for generations

to sit and eat, worse stilL to commit atrosities and enjoy!

 

* We attend a Satsang and come out appreciating the discourser, but

without dropping a Kotha (not valid) coin even in the hundi, while it

is said " kuch paane ke liye, kuch khona hai " , " never receive anything

free " , " shriya deyam, Bhiya deyam... " etc!

 

* " Help ever, hurt never " it is said, where what most of us do

is " Hurt freely, Help seldom " !

 

* Every spiritual speaker and every scripture drill in us that we

should cultivate " Atma bhava (consciousness of the self) and

not 'Deha Bhava (Body consciousness), but what we decorate and adore

is our body of muscles, blood and stink and not the pure and pious

atma!

 

We can go on and on without end, isn't it, but yet not be sure which

is less greater!

Yet your question is good and great, for it will make one think deep!

 

Regards.

Prof Ramanujam.

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

For the benefit of all, The story Michaelji has listed come from Yoga

Vasishtha. I recommend that all spiritual aspirant must read this

book at least once. I read (reading continues for ever...) -

Vashishtah's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda and I found it very

beneficial in understanding my own mind. Yes, unfolding of who you

are is the most wonderful thing and at the same time study of mind,

its tricks, its way to pull us down, etc. are very surprising to

study.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

 

Hari Om

 

Michael

 

You have indeed presented to all of us , the true and real story of

each of us. All sadhaks should feel grateful to you. Sadhaks like

Michael and our Mike Keenor are real and respectable examples of

how a soul gallops towards the TRUTH once a desire or need has arisen

in it to find out the Divine . Soul recognises not any distinctions

of caste, creed, colour, country,. A burning desire is more than

enough to progress in spiritual uplifting.

 

This story in the first reading appears " mindless " though it is

exclusively about the " mind " - a funny story but very serious. For

serious sadhaks such stories set an order, a process of " sadhana " ….

And lead them straight to their goal- freedom from pain /sorrow …

systematically … step by step. For intelligent people such stories

are a challenge , a riddle, a reminder ! It is too brief in size but

too big in effect- like an arrow.

 

This story covers substance of . Soul ( SAT) , Conscience,. Jeeva,

Ego, Mind, Intellect, Destiny, Svabhav ( nature/habit) , Jagat (

World), Worldly Pleasures, Pain of the soul, Desires, MAYA ( Avidya,

agyaan, darkness, illusion, ignorance, stupidity, jugglery, ) ,

Knowledge ( CHIT, gyaan, light ) , Bondage, Liberation, , and

Jagdish ( God, Paramatma, ANANDA,- Divine, natural, absolute not

relative-, BLISS, PEACE ) This story is timeless. When we come

across such ocean deep stories , we cant help feeling proud of our

Religion, Saints and Sages, Heritage, and Holy Scriptures of eternal

Sanatan Dharma.

 

This " gaagar main saagar " ( Ocean in water pot) story first

thoroughly agitates and astonishes even the best of the human egos,

intellects and minds ; then gives them a powerful shock ; then

pacifies /satisfies/floors them fully. And then of course silences

them . In the end it makes YOU meet YOURSELF in SAT CHIT ANANDA

FORM.!

 

This story is the state of JIVA in his present form and is applicable

to all of us. It starts with Bondage and ends with Liberation and the

JIVA claiming the SATCHITANANDA FORM of Paramatma. Nothing explains

more eloquently the role of MAYA than this powerful short story. Who

else can be the writer of this story than CONSCIENCE which is direct

agent of Paramatma living in the human body along with JIVA ? Like

two birds on a tree – referred once by Mike Keenor in one of his

messages !! Who else can hold the soul so powerfully and ask such

direct questions than CONSCIENCE ?

 

It is from one of the most respected Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma –

called YOGA VAASHISHTHA - where Sage Vaashishtha teaches Lord

Rama .

 

Balance in next message. In the meantime serious sadhaks should re

read this story – seriously & peacefully, in order to gain out of it.

The best way to read it is to " feel " it so that your mind becomes a

scene and you become the seer and your conscience starts

responding. " To feel " – put yourself into equanimous zone in which

zone your conscience always resides – be like a court judge- no

personal likings / dislikings. Read it as a challenge to your mental

equipment. Believe for once in what ever clues I have given here in

above.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gita

Life is greatest wonder inthe universal

if some body undestand it he will understand universe.

 

Hoshu Hameedullah

--------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Naravat Sahab, I have one question. Which Lord's name is Latiyal? I

don't know, never heard of it before.

 

About your question,

Please enlighten us that by knowing the greatest astonishment of this

world, how will it benefit you spiritually or otherwise. I am unable

to decipher the purpose of this question.

 

Thanks,

Varun Paprunia

--------------------------

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

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GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

 

 

Hari Om

 

4 STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF, CRYING

AND RUNNING ...

 

Once mind desires, the sorrow and pain is a must in all

circumstances. What else we can do in the beginning, middle or end

of worldly desires except beating ourselves, brooding, fretting? The

beatings referred in the story are the blows of fancies,

imaginations and whims. They are indeed caused by one self . We only

hurt ourselves and no body else when we are in fits of anger, greed,

anxieties, ill temper, attachment ... Desires! We keep hurting

ourselves and sufferring mental agonies and turmoils, inner storms,

agitations, turbulences, fears and what not. We cry ..... We try to

run away from adverse circumstances caused exclusively due to your

mind desiring worldly pleasures and things. Running away from

adversity but again desiring favourable circumstances !! Sometimes

the desire is to " get pleasure " , sometime it is to " remove pains " .

Desire continues, subjects change!!

 

5 FELL BLINDLY INTO WELL WITH HIDDEN MOUTH

 

Desires have hidden mouth. They blind the desirer too. At the outset

they look goals, pleasant. Health, wealth, fame, affluence, power,

position, status, flashy cars, spacious home, right, virtue,

authority, respect, .... great feelings. Desires are beautiful.

Pains come into experience in abundance later.

 

BLINDLY .... You get blinded by desires. Pains get hidden.This

process of blocking your vision is in 3 stages. In the first stage,

the truth is as hidden as fire is hidden by smoke. In the second

stage, the reality is as not visible as your face in a mirror with a

layer of dust on it. In the final stage the gets as concealed as a

fetus in the womb !!!

 

FELL/WELL : " fell blindly into a well " here in this story means Jiva

going to hell . Here one life time ends. Desires, (kaam), reaction

of anger emanating out of unfullfilled desires ( krodha) and greed

arising out of fulfilled desires ( lobha) are three gates of hell .

( Refer BG 16:21) . Hence " well " referred here can only be " hell " .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

The conduct of a human being never ceases to astonish particularly

when mind functions with reference to Desires . Jeeva chooses to

desire worldly things inspite of the fact that there is no provision

made by the Creator, for fulfillment of desires. Desire of even " the

Baap (father) " of Lord Rama- Dashratha- was not fulfilled, Jee !

Father of God in no exception category- Bhaiyya !! You can only

renounce desires, you cannot fulfill them , Jee !

 

In this story " striking by himself " , and " crying " emanate

exclusively out of desires only. It is a law that a worldly desire

ALWAYS gets you pain ! Always, Jee ! Fools are those who desire,

Jee !

 

WHEN ARISING :

 

Before desire arises in you, there is no deficiency. The moment

desire arises, deficiency arises. Till desire is there deficiency is

there. Till deficiency is there, pain is there !

 

WHEN CONTINUING:

 

There is continuity of pain of deficiency, pain of efforts, running

agst time, competition, fear of failure, labour, anxiety,

tension .... and pain of uncertainty !

 

WHEN FULFILLED:

 

More desires arise instantly. New pain of maintaining connection (or

disconnection) with worldly thing received (or thankfully not

received) arises. Simultaneously, pride, greed, dishonesty, envy,

and falsehood arose, sins now are made rather more unhesitantly ,

ego baloons, .... all these invariably cause pains. On the top of

it, with whatever you get " connected " with - as fulfillment of

desires- starts " disconnecting " with you from the very moment

of " connection " ! You get only that which must leave you !!

 

WHEN NOT FULFILLED

 

Pain increases geometrically! From deficiency, uncertainty, loss of

energy/time/efforts to ..... frustration , failure, depression,

hatred, loss of confidence, humiliation, bitterness, and what not!

 

Your mind never suggests to you that by desiring you don't get

worldly things. Had that been the case- no body on this earth would

have been " poor " ! Who does not desire to be " rich " ? If you get,

you get only due to efforts, destiny and grace of God. If you get

also , then too the worldly things don't stay with you. If they

stay, then you don't stay . Disconnection is imminent !!

 

This is MAYA ! This is mind! This is the state of Jeeva !!!

How surprising ! How astonishing !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Falling prey to " Maya " is the most astonishing wonderment in my view.

 

Some supplementary thoughts to the story explained by Tamma

Bhaiyya :

 

In the forest of worldly life our mind gets confused Jee ! and

there is a fear arising naturally in us because basically we are

permanent/ complete/never changing/ blissful - avinaashi/sahaj

sukhraasi Jee !!! But the world that this mind is attached to is -

temporary /

incomplete/deficient/ever changing/ ever sorrowful !!

 

Because of " svabhaav " (habits/individual attraction to the nature)

and past deeds/karma (association with strangers i.e the world) - we

desire worldly things and pleasure Jee !

 

Our desires are many, but as such only one Jee! ... Whatever we

think through mind .. Must happen Jee! The desires come in the form

of " my likings " ( Raag) and " my dislikings " (Dvesha). However, the

bitter truth is that simply by desiring we cannot get " worldly

pleasures " Jee, we can only get Daddy ! But that Daddy is

beyond " mind " Jee. Worldly pleasures are " natural " to mind, because

mind belongs

to the world Jee, so does intellect and ego Jee( notion of me/mine).

This mind

(which I had said before is better if thrown in the dustbin) seeks

world and

worldly pleasures only Jee.

 

This mind cheats us Jee in this regard. We like absolute fools

believe that

" desiring " is necessary for getting worldly things. We forget under

the illusion

caused by me/mine notion ( MAYA) that while we don't desire sickness

or death or

adversity, still we get it Jee. Even highly educated people,

possessing a

thousand hands and eyes, say - " You must desire. The world will

come to a

grinding

hault if you stop desiring Jee. They think that if you don't have

desires, you

are dead " Jee!

 

What a belief, Jee !! How wonderful, Jee!! How surprising !! As if

they desired to take birth, to grow, to fall sick, to deteriorate,

to die and as if they really selected their parents, children,

spouses, relatives, circumstances, situations, incidences, states,

happennings, colour, caste, creed, country, time, age !!! WHAT A

MAYA ! WHAT AN ILLUSION !!

 

That the most astonishing wonderment in human life, Jee! Maya !

Ignorance!! Stupidity !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

There is nothing greater than Paramatma. Whatever great thing you

have received, Paramatma is greater than even that. If you get

anything greater than Paramatma (surprisingly), then please,

immediately share will all of us, so that we also come to know. But

as such there is not such a thing, or else it would have not escaped

Swamiji's sight. Thank you !

 

Sarvottam

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

1. THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN

 

This world is the forest in which we all, with minds, wander about.

It is a forest because with the cool air and beauty of nature ,

there are thorns also. There are wild animals also and chances of

our getting lost too. Being forest there are no ways visible. We

have to make our own ways. All the beauty and dangers of forest are

present in human life. - of every body- no exceptions.

 

2 WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED, THAT FEARFUL ONE

 

We are not peaceful. We are confused - constantly seeking pleasure

and happiness. We are fearful. We don't know what the next moment

might have in store for us. We may die anytime, anywhere. We are

confused as well as fearful because we are basically split at the

sub conscience level. While body, mind, ego etc " natuarally " remain

estalished in prakrithi (world/nature) only being part of them, but

we don't belong to nature. It is law that fear develops when one

enters the arena to which he doesnot belong or ONLY when when is in

company of " others " .. When we get attracted/connected

with " stranger/other " world, fear and confusion stick with us

permanently, (which fear goes ONLY when we disconnect from world).

Constant changes and uncertainties of the world also make us

confused and fearful.

 

3 WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

We are equipped in this forest with sharp intellect and vision,

imagination of mind. With capacity to work hard, and control other

species, animals, and fellow men ( a thousand hands) and an

exceptional vision ( a thousand eyes) we set about in this world to

seek pleasure and peace. We seek help of mind. We make efforts to

fulfill our desires.We want to be the best, the wealthiest, the most

intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the healthiest, the greatest.

We want to have every worldly comfort which our Dear and our own

mind can conceive! We don't want to lose. We always want to win. We

are proud of our mind and our intellect (vision). Mind gives a

solution to our eternal desire of being peaceful and happy. DESIRE

FOR WORLDLY THINGS. Since we like mind, we have connected with mind,

WE ACCEPT the suggestions of mind. We start seeking worldly

pleasures.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Shivkumar,

 

It is extremely difficult to answer your question! Wonderments are so

many and to grade them and point out one among them as the greatest

of wonderments is something, at least for me, is not possible!

 

* We see people die day in and day out, yet we think we will go on

living for ever and do not attempt to follow the Path of Shreyas!

 

* Ishavasyopanishad starts bang with the advice that everything

belongs to God and so one should not grab what is others " due " ;Yet

we have businessmen and politicians amassing wealth for generations

to sit and eat, worse stilL to commit atrosities and enjoy!

 

* We attend a Satsang and come out appreciating the discourser, but

without dropping a Kotha (not valid) coin even in the hundi, while it

is said " kuch paane ke liye, kuch khona hai " , " never receive anything

free " , " shriya deyam, Bhiya deyam... " etc!

 

* " Help ever, hurt never " it is said, where what most of us do

is " Hurt freely, Help seldom " !

 

* Every spiritual speaker and every scripture drill in us that we

should cultivate " Atma bhava (consciousness of the self) and

not 'Deha Bhava (Body consciousness), but what we decorate and adore

is our body of muscles, blood and stink and not the pure and pious

atma!

 

We can go on and on without end, isn't it, but yet not be sure which

is less greater!

Yet your question is good and great, for it will make one think deep!

 

Regards.

Prof Ramanujam.

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

For the benefit of all, The story Michaelji has listed come from Yoga

Vasishtha. I recommend that all spiritual aspirant must read this

book at least once. I read (reading continues for ever...) -

Vashishtah's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda and I found it very

beneficial in understanding my own mind. Yes, unfolding of who you

are is the most wonderful thing and at the same time study of mind,

its tricks, its way to pull us down, etc. are very surprising to

study.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

 

Hari Om

 

Michael

 

You have indeed presented to all of us , the true and real story of

each of us. All sadhaks should feel grateful to you. Sadhaks like

Michael and our Mike Keenor are real and respectable examples of

how a soul gallops towards the TRUTH once a desire or need has arisen

in it to find out the Divine . Soul recognises not any distinctions

of caste, creed, colour, country,. A burning desire is more than

enough to progress in spiritual uplifting.

 

This story in the first reading appears " mindless " though it is

exclusively about the " mind " - a funny story but very serious. For

serious sadhaks such stories set an order, a process of " sadhana " ….

And lead them straight to their goal- freedom from pain /sorrow …

systematically … step by step. For intelligent people such stories

are a challenge , a riddle, a reminder ! It is too brief in size but

too big in effect- like an arrow.

 

This story covers substance of . Soul ( SAT) , Conscience,. Jeeva,

Ego, Mind, Intellect, Destiny, Svabhav ( nature/habit) , Jagat (

World), Worldly Pleasures, Pain of the soul, Desires, MAYA ( Avidya,

agyaan, darkness, illusion, ignorance, stupidity, jugglery, ) ,

Knowledge ( CHIT, gyaan, light ) , Bondage, Liberation, , and

Jagdish ( God, Paramatma, ANANDA,- Divine, natural, absolute not

relative-, BLISS, PEACE ) This story is timeless. When we come

across such ocean deep stories , we cant help feeling proud of our

Religion, Saints and Sages, Heritage, and Holy Scriptures of eternal

Sanatan Dharma.

 

This " gaagar main saagar " ( Ocean in water pot) story first

thoroughly agitates and astonishes even the best of the human egos,

intellects and minds ; then gives them a powerful shock ; then

pacifies /satisfies/floors them fully. And then of course silences

them . In the end it makes YOU meet YOURSELF in SAT CHIT ANANDA

FORM.!

 

This story is the state of JIVA in his present form and is applicable

to all of us. It starts with Bondage and ends with Liberation and the

JIVA claiming the SATCHITANANDA FORM of Paramatma. Nothing explains

more eloquently the role of MAYA than this powerful short story. Who

else can be the writer of this story than CONSCIENCE which is direct

agent of Paramatma living in the human body along with JIVA ? Like

two birds on a tree – referred once by Mike Keenor in one of his

messages !! Who else can hold the soul so powerfully and ask such

direct questions than CONSCIENCE ?

 

It is from one of the most respected Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma –

called YOGA VAASHISHTHA - where Sage Vaashishtha teaches Lord

Rama .

 

Balance in next message. In the meantime serious sadhaks should re

read this story – seriously & peacefully, in order to gain out of it.

The best way to read it is to " feel " it so that your mind becomes a

scene and you become the seer and your conscience starts

responding. " To feel " – put yourself into equanimous zone in which

zone your conscience always resides – be like a court judge- no

personal likings / dislikings. Read it as a challenge to your mental

equipment. Believe for once in what ever clues I have given here in

above.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gita

Life is greatest wonder inthe universal

if some body undestand it he will understand universe.

 

Hoshu Hameedullah

--------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Naravat Sahab, I have one question. Which Lord's name is Latiyal? I

don't know, never heard of it before.

 

About your question,

Please enlighten us that by knowing the greatest astonishment of this

world, how will it benefit you spiritually or otherwise. I am unable

to decipher the purpose of this question.

 

Thanks,

Varun Paprunia

--------------------------

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

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Sanskrit words, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

12. Any personal remarks over the knowledge of any sadhak or about

the stage at which any sadhak is standing in his quest / sadhna /

spiritual journey - must not be included in your posting. Also,

there should not be any sarcasm towards fellow sadhaks in this

spiritual learning and sharing.

 

GITA TALK MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Jeeva, like a traveller is never at peace, till destination is

reached. Having spent considerable time in the hell,

 

6 THEN GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME.

 

He went to the hell with his subtle body viz with his " svabhav " -

habits, individual nature , his attitude towards the world. He comes

back improved but the old " svabhav " is hard to be conquered, can be

substantially conquered only in human life. In the hell majority of

past deeds get redeemed. Now he shall have lesser obstacles of

destiny.

 

HE ENTERED THE THORNY FOREST , THEN AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING

HIMSELF OFTEN,

 

Again, in the fresh human life, he could not leave desires. He

still makes efforts, toils hard, he comes back purer from hell , but

decides to run, to chase, to show, to follow to compete, to prove,

to establish, to set trends.... To get something, to do something,

to know something. He makes more efforts in a focussed manner, to

get worldly things. He tolerates pains in the hope of more and more

worldly pleasures. But all worldly .

 

He however forgets that the real cause of his pain , is not lack of

efforts, vision, focus, capacity or knowledge, ..... But the

desires! Pains continue.But he acquires by his vision, capacity, a

decent quantum of good karmas to his credit- as past karmas do not

haunt him badly.

 

7 RUNNING AND LAUGHING

 

But efforts and karma have their own positive temporary results too.

Focus, desire, destiny, efforts, grace of God makes him rich in

conduct and wisdom, and happiness of worldly achievements start

coming to him as naturally as after night day comes. He enjoys

labour. And goes after death to heaven which in this story has been

described as

 

" AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES "

 

8 DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH

 

Worldly pleasures spoil the habit. Most of the good deeds got

exchanged in the heavens. From heavens again to the earth, Jeeva is

back to square one. Same desires, same habits, same attitude and

same hell again ! Because desires continue.

 

Alas ! How a man degrades himself by desiring. Cycle continues of

pleasure and pain, heaven and hell, gloom and gaity, ...... And

continues, and continues .... And so continue the desires, the

attitude towards the world, the likings, the dislikings, the

connection with the body, with mind, with ego, with intellect

because Jeeva never leaves the shelter of subtle body and causal

body even in heavens or in hell- he cannot do so there, he can only

do so in human life, because he acquired them in human life only at

the first time !!

 

Any views Shashikalaji ?

 

Jai Shree Krishna.

 

VYAS N B

--------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Having been caught in the circle of pleasure and pain and having

complete reliance on ever changing mind and intellect and having not

been able to distinguish the self with the ego - the Jeeva suffers

immense pains and only pains arising out of desires. The mind keeps

cheating Jeeva continuously both in temporary pleasures and

permanent pain.

 

Mind makes Jeeva believe that pleasure is generated by " fulfillment

of desires " - in which effort mind was on the driver's seat. It is

cheating in fact ! In reality, the " fulfillment of desires " do not

bring pleasure to Jeeva , the giving up of desire by the mind ,

brings relative pleasure !! You get pleasure because the desire is

no more! For example, we desire getting say 10000 dollars, and we

get it. We get pleased. Now the pleasure is not because we got 10000

dollars, but because there is no pain of desire. Giving up of desire

has generated pleasure by operation of law stated in BG 12:12 ! Had

receipt of dollars generated happiness we would not have felt sorrow

till money remained in tact with us!! We get cheated by the mind,

and there arise instantly more desires !! What a Maya !!

 

Evil is dead upon fulfillment of desire but gets awakened by more

desires! We never learn from our mistakes, Jee! In happiness, as

well as in sorrow,mind cheats us.

 

But who in fact is suffering? Certainly not the mental equipment

being inert itself. It is Jeeva , we ourselves suffer! What is our

fault? We think our ego, mind, intellect to be " me/mine " ! They

continue always, however, neither " you " nor " yours " !! Always ! They

are different altogether by nature wise, element wise, every

wise !!! They belong to the world, you belong to the God !

 

When defeat/failure comes , " your " mind/intellect/ego shamelessly

suggest to you that ....... " It happens " . They will pamper you by

telling that either the God was responsible for failure, or the

time, or kaliyuga, or world or that person/this circumstance/ that

happenning/ this incidence ....... Or destiny/fate/luck is

responsible ! We , mind/intellect/ego , are not responsible Mr

Self ! ( So you sometimes say " I was right but the time/luck was

bad " ) !

 

But do your mind/intellect/ego ever say so when you succeed ? No !

They then say " me " " me " - you also join the chorus - " my mind " , " my

vision " , " my capacity " , " my intelligence " , " me .... me .....

mine .... mine " , " I " , " I did it " ..... " Me mine me " ......

Non sense !!

 

What a cheating Jee ? What a treachery, Jee ? What an illusion, Dear

Sadhaks ?. How shabbily you mind, intellect, ego treat you, Dear ?

Are they worth being proud of ? How easily they convert you from "

sahaj sukhrasi " , avinashi ( imperishable and naturally blissful) ,

part of God, and a Master to a deficient, ever sorrowful , a slave

and a simpleton, a stupid, a damn fool !!

 

This is Maya , Jee !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

4 STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF, CRYING

AND RUNNING ...

 

Once mind desires, the sorrow and pain is a must in all

circumstances. What else we can do in the beginning, middle or end

of worldly desires except beating ourselves, brooding, fretting? The

beatings referred in the story are the blows of fancies,

imaginations and whims. They are indeed caused by one self . We only

hurt ourselves and no body else when we are in fits of anger, greed,

anxieties, ill temper, attachment ... Desires! We keep hurting

ourselves and sufferring mental agonies and turmoils, inner storms,

agitations, turbulences, fears and what not. We cry ..... We try to

run away from adverse circumstances caused exclusively due to your

mind desiring worldly pleasures and things. Running away from

adversity but again desiring favourable circumstances !! Sometimes

the desire is to " get pleasure " , sometime it is to " remove pains " .

Desire continues, subjects change!!

 

5 FELL BLINDLY INTO WELL WITH HIDDEN MOUTH

 

Desires have hidden mouth. They blind the desirer too. At the outset

they look goals, pleasant. Health, wealth, fame, affluence, power,

position, status, flashy cars, spacious home, right, virtue,

authority, respect, .... great feelings. Desires are beautiful.

Pains come into experience in abundance later.

 

BLINDLY .... You get blinded by desires. Pains get hidden.This

process of blocking your vision is in 3 stages. In the first stage,

the truth is as hidden as fire is hidden by smoke. In the second

stage, the reality is as not visible as your face in a mirror with a

layer of dust on it. In the final stage the gets as concealed as a

fetus in the womb !!!

 

FELL/WELL : " fell blindly into a well " here in this story means Jiva

going to hell . Here one life time ends. Desires, (kaam), reaction

of anger emanating out of unfullfilled desires ( krodha) and greed

arising out of fulfilled desires ( lobha) are three gates of hell .

( Refer BG 16:21) . Hence " well " referred here can only be " hell " .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

The conduct of a human being never ceases to astonish particularly

when mind functions with reference to Desires . Jeeva chooses to

desire worldly things inspite of the fact that there is no provision

made by the Creator, for fulfillment of desires. Desire of even " the

Baap (father) " of Lord Rama- Dashratha- was not fulfilled, Jee !

Father of God in no exception category- Bhaiyya !! You can only

renounce desires, you cannot fulfill them , Jee !

 

In this story " striking by himself " , and " crying " emanate

exclusively out of desires only. It is a law that a worldly desire

ALWAYS gets you pain ! Always, Jee ! Fools are those who desire,

Jee !

 

WHEN ARISING :

 

Before desire arises in you, there is no deficiency. The moment

desire arises, deficiency arises. Till desire is there deficiency is

there. Till deficiency is there, pain is there !

 

WHEN CONTINUING:

 

There is continuity of pain of deficiency, pain of efforts, running

agst time, competition, fear of failure, labour, anxiety,

tension .... and pain of uncertainty !

 

WHEN FULFILLED:

 

More desires arise instantly. New pain of maintaining connection (or

disconnection) with worldly thing received (or thankfully not

received) arises. Simultaneously, pride, greed, dishonesty, envy,

and falsehood arose, sins now are made rather more unhesitantly ,

ego baloons, .... all these invariably cause pains. On the top of

it, with whatever you get " connected " with - as fulfillment of

desires- starts " disconnecting " with you from the very moment

of " connection " ! You get only that which must leave you !!

 

WHEN NOT FULFILLED

 

Pain increases geometrically! From deficiency, uncertainty, loss of

energy/time/efforts to ..... frustration , failure, depression,

hatred, loss of confidence, humiliation, bitterness, and what not!

 

Your mind never suggests to you that by desiring you don't get

worldly things. Had that been the case- no body on this earth would

have been " poor " ! Who does not desire to be " rich " ? If you get,

you get only due to efforts, destiny and grace of God. If you get

also , then too the worldly things don't stay with you. If they

stay, then you don't stay . Disconnection is imminent !!

 

This is MAYA ! This is mind! This is the state of Jeeva !!!

How surprising ! How astonishing !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Falling prey to " Maya " is the most astonishing wonderment in my view.

 

Some supplementary thoughts to the story explained by Tamma

Bhaiyya :

 

In the forest of worldly life our mind gets confused Jee ! and

there is a fear arising naturally in us because basically we are

permanent/ complete/never changing/ blissful - avinaashi/sahaj

sukhraasi Jee !!! But the world that this mind is attached to is -

temporary /

incomplete/deficient/ever changing/ ever sorrowful !!

 

Because of " svabhaav " (habits/individual attraction to the nature)

and past deeds/karma (association with strangers i.e the world) - we

desire worldly things and pleasure Jee !

 

Our desires are many, but as such only one Jee! ... Whatever we

think through mind .. Must happen Jee! The desires come in the form

of " my likings " ( Raag) and " my dislikings " (Dvesha). However, the

bitter truth is that simply by desiring we cannot get " worldly

pleasures " Jee, we can only get Daddy ! But that Daddy is

beyond " mind " Jee. Worldly pleasures are " natural " to mind, because

mind belongs

to the world Jee, so does intellect and ego Jee( notion of me/mine).

This mind

(which I had said before is better if thrown in the dustbin) seeks

world and

worldly pleasures only Jee.

 

This mind cheats us Jee in this regard. We like absolute fools

believe that

" desiring " is necessary for getting worldly things. We forget under

the illusion

caused by me/mine notion ( MAYA) that while we don't desire sickness

or death or

adversity, still we get it Jee. Even highly educated people,

possessing a

thousand hands and eyes, say - " You must desire. The world will

come to a

grinding

hault if you stop desiring Jee. They think that if you don't have

desires, you

are dead " Jee!

 

What a belief, Jee !! How wonderful, Jee!! How surprising !! As if

they desired to take birth, to grow, to fall sick, to deteriorate,

to die and as if they really selected their parents, children,

spouses, relatives, circumstances, situations, incidences, states,

happennings, colour, caste, creed, country, time, age !!! WHAT A

MAYA ! WHAT AN ILLUSION !!

 

That the most astonishing wonderment in human life, Jee! Maya !

Ignorance!! Stupidity !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

There is nothing greater than Paramatma. Whatever great thing you

have received, Paramatma is greater than even that. If you get

anything greater than Paramatma (surprisingly), then please,

immediately share will all of us, so that we also come to know. But

as such there is not such a thing, or else it would have not escaped

Swamiji's sight. Thank you !

 

Sarvottam

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

1. THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN

 

This world is the forest in which we all, with minds, wander about.

It is a forest because with the cool air and beauty of nature ,

there are thorns also. There are wild animals also and chances of

our getting lost too. Being forest there are no ways visible. We

have to make our own ways. All the beauty and dangers of forest are

present in human life. - of every body- no exceptions.

 

2 WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED, THAT FEARFUL ONE

 

We are not peaceful. We are confused - constantly seeking pleasure

and happiness. We are fearful. We don't know what the next moment

might have in store for us. We may die anytime, anywhere. We are

confused as well as fearful because we are basically split at the

sub conscience level. While body, mind, ego etc " natuarally " remain

estalished in prakrithi (world/nature) only being part of them, but

we don't belong to nature. It is law that fear develops when one

enters the arena to which he doesnot belong or ONLY when when is in

company of " others " .. When we get attracted/connected

with " stranger/other " world, fear and confusion stick with us

permanently, (which fear goes ONLY when we disconnect from world).

Constant changes and uncertainties of the world also make us

confused and fearful.

 

3 WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

We are equipped in this forest with sharp intellect and vision,

imagination of mind. With capacity to work hard, and control other

species, animals, and fellow men ( a thousand hands) and an

exceptional vision ( a thousand eyes) we set about in this world to

seek pleasure and peace. We seek help of mind. We make efforts to

fulfill our desires.We want to be the best, the wealthiest, the most

intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the healthiest, the greatest.

We want to have every worldly comfort which our Dear and our own

mind can conceive! We don't want to lose. We always want to win. We

are proud of our mind and our intellect (vision). Mind gives a

solution to our eternal desire of being peaceful and happy. DESIRE

FOR WORLDLY THINGS. Since we like mind, we have connected with mind,

WE ACCEPT the suggestions of mind. We start seeking worldly

pleasures.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Shivkumar,

 

It is extremely difficult to answer your question! Wonderments are so

many and to grade them and point out one among them as the greatest

of wonderments is something, at least for me, is not possible!

 

* We see people die day in and day out, yet we think we will go on

living for ever and do not attempt to follow the Path of Shreyas!

 

* Ishavasyopanishad starts bang with the advice that everything

belongs to God and so one should not grab what is others " due " ;Yet

we have businessmen and politicians amassing wealth for generations

to sit and eat, worse stilL to commit atrosities and enjoy!

 

* We attend a Satsang and come out appreciating the discourser, but

without dropping a Kotha (not valid) coin even in the hundi, while it

is said " kuch paane ke liye, kuch khona hai " , " never receive anything

free " , " shriya deyam, Bhiya deyam... " etc!

 

* " Help ever, hurt never " it is said, where what most of us do

is " Hurt freely, Help seldom " !

 

* Every spiritual speaker and every scripture drill in us that we

should cultivate " Atma bhava (consciousness of the self) and

not 'Deha Bhava (Body consciousness), but what we decorate and adore

is our body of muscles, blood and stink and not the pure and pious

atma!

 

We can go on and on without end, isn't it, but yet not be sure which

is less greater!

Yet your question is good and great, for it will make one think deep!

 

Regards.

Prof Ramanujam.

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

For the benefit of all, The story Michaelji has listed come from Yoga

Vasishtha. I recommend that all spiritual aspirant must read this

book at least once. I read (reading continues for ever...) -

Vashishtah's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda and I found it very

beneficial in understanding my own mind. Yes, unfolding of who you

are is the most wonderful thing and at the same time study of mind,

its tricks, its way to pull us down, etc. are very surprising to

study.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

 

Hari Om

 

Michael

 

You have indeed presented to all of us , the true and real story of

each of us. All sadhaks should feel grateful to you. Sadhaks like

Michael and our Mike Keenor are real and respectable examples of

how a soul gallops towards the TRUTH once a desire or need has arisen

in it to find out the Divine . Soul recognises not any distinctions

of caste, creed, colour, country,. A burning desire is more than

enough to progress in spiritual uplifting.

 

This story in the first reading appears " mindless " though it is

exclusively about the " mind " - a funny story but very serious. For

serious sadhaks such stories set an order, a process of " sadhana " ….

And lead them straight to their goal- freedom from pain /sorrow …

systematically … step by step. For intelligent people such stories

are a challenge , a riddle, a reminder ! It is too brief in size but

too big in effect- like an arrow.

 

This story covers substance of . Soul ( SAT) , Conscience,. Jeeva,

Ego, Mind, Intellect, Destiny, Svabhav ( nature/habit) , Jagat (

World), Worldly Pleasures, Pain of the soul, Desires, MAYA ( Avidya,

agyaan, darkness, illusion, ignorance, stupidity, jugglery, ) ,

Knowledge ( CHIT, gyaan, light ) , Bondage, Liberation, , and

Jagdish ( God, Paramatma, ANANDA,- Divine, natural, absolute not

relative-, BLISS, PEACE ) This story is timeless. When we come

across such ocean deep stories , we cant help feeling proud of our

Religion, Saints and Sages, Heritage, and Holy Scriptures of eternal

Sanatan Dharma.

 

This " gaagar main saagar " ( Ocean in water pot) story first

thoroughly agitates and astonishes even the best of the human egos,

intellects and minds ; then gives them a powerful shock ; then

pacifies /satisfies/floors them fully. And then of course silences

them . In the end it makes YOU meet YOURSELF in SAT CHIT ANANDA

FORM.!

 

This story is the state of JIVA in his present form and is applicable

to all of us. It starts with Bondage and ends with Liberation and the

JIVA claiming the SATCHITANANDA FORM of Paramatma. Nothing explains

more eloquently the role of MAYA than this powerful short story. Who

else can be the writer of this story than CONSCIENCE which is direct

agent of Paramatma living in the human body along with JIVA ? Like

two birds on a tree – referred once by Mike Keenor in one of his

messages !! Who else can hold the soul so powerfully and ask such

direct questions than CONSCIENCE ?

 

It is from one of the most respected Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma –

called YOGA VAASHISHTHA - where Sage Vaashishtha teaches Lord

Rama .

 

Balance in next message. In the meantime serious sadhaks should re

read this story – seriously & peacefully, in order to gain out of it.

The best way to read it is to " feel " it so that your mind becomes a

scene and you become the seer and your conscience starts

responding. " To feel " – put yourself into equanimous zone in which

zone your conscience always resides – be like a court judge- no

personal likings / dislikings. Read it as a challenge to your mental

equipment. Believe for once in what ever clues I have given here in

above.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gita

Life is greatest wonder inthe universal

if some body undestand it he will understand universe.

 

Hoshu Hameedullah

--------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Naravat Sahab, I have one question. Which Lord's name is Latiyal? I

don't know, never heard of it before.

 

About your question,

Please enlighten us that by knowing the greatest astonishment of this

world, how will it benefit you spiritually or otherwise. I am unable

to decipher the purpose of this question.

 

Thanks,

Varun Paprunia

--------------------------

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

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Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

jai latiyal

 

IN ENGLISH: In this world, what is the greatest wonderment /

astonishment of all? What does Gita say about it?

 

IN HINDI: Duniya ka sab se badha aaschariya kya hein. Is per, Gita

kaa kyaa abhipraay hai?

 

[shivkumar naravat]

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

When Mr Viveka takes over the hold of you, there are lots of

questions. There is a lot soul searching. Your peace gets snatched.

Conscience forces you to listen to him.You have choice still of

disregarding him, but only after hearing him !!

 

Viveka (Conscience) takes you beyond desires/mind ! It

discriminates. Viveka only and not mind that suggest to you

that " desires are insatiable " . Gita also suggests that only. Can

fire extinguish if you keep adding fuel into it?

 

You want to have good spouse, children, parents, lot of money,

robust health, fame - so that you may become happy. This is

suggestion of mind.

 

Viveka confronts you with a counter question. Whether those who have

better spouses, children, more money than you, etc - Are they

happy ?? Happiness is not in presence of worldly things, it resides

in absence of desires for worldly things.

Your mind wants to change the circumstances, situations to suit it,

to suit the desres/goals ! It never takes easy/simple ways. Your

conscience tells You that one can never change the circumstances, a

simple way is to " change yourself " . Pain lies in feeling of

deficiency within. That deficiency gets created when you desire!!

You consider your self to be big, if you have lot of money! Now who

is bigger? You or money ? We make a mockery of ourselves by

desiring. What we have to get, we shall get, irrespective of our

desiring for the same!! Worldly things will not stop coming to you

if you stop desiring- only pains will cease!! How easy ! How simple!!

 

YOUR MIND CHEATS YOU JEE WHEN IT SUGGESTS THAT " To renounce desires

is very difficult " . Ask your mind - " WHY DONT YOU SUGGEST THAT TO

FULFILL DESIRES IS IMPOSSIBLE? " That mind will never suggest to

you ! That only Mr Conscience can tell you.

 

Wake up .... Jee ... O Dear Child of God ... Wake up !

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

--------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

9 HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME, (THAT PERSON) WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF

SUCH KIND

 

Long Time: Is an under statement. We have been in this cycle for

millions and trillions of aeons. The same " Jeevas " again and again

take birth, suffer, enjoy ... And die. The " chakra " (cycle/circle)

continues. Sometimes as human, sometimes as animals, trees, sometime

in heaven, sometime in hell. The cycle goes on and on ... Till we

heed to our conscience, till we stop desiring for worldly things.

You can find an end to a straight path....but how can you find an

end of a circular path? You can only rise above the circle !!

 

10 AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A WHILE

 

Suddenly a voice comes from within ! From inside- voice of

Conscience, voice of soul, of Viveka, of Discrimination ! A soul

searching takes place, generally when peace is hard to get, when

mind is clueless. What the hell you are doing? Why? Hey..... Come

on ! Stop.... Stop !! Hold !

 

BY ME: The writer of this short story is Conscience, your real

advisor, your counsellor. It never changes.It never leaves you. It

is direct agent of God living inside you.

 

BY FORCE: When Mr Conscience holds you, he holds you by force. He

compels you to think beyond your mind, intellect, and ego.He

addresses you boldly, because he is always positioned in Equanimity !

 

AWAKENED: All of us experience sometime or other, the presence of,

Conscience within us. When your conscience awakens -you should

respect him. He falls into dormant zone, if you consistently

disregard him and give more importance to mind/intellect. Afterall,

in this human body, you are Hero. He is only your

advisor/consultant. If you hear, wonderful ... If you don't....

Suffer !! But he remains with you in human life in full elements ...

May be next time you hear- afterall he is agent of your Daddy living

inside you !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

Jeeva, like a traveller is never at peace, till destination is

reached. Having spent considerable time in the hell,

 

6 THEN GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME.

 

He went to the hell with his subtle body viz with his " svabhav " -

habits, individual nature , his attitude towards the world. He comes

back improved but the old " svabhav " is hard to be conquered, can be

substantially conquered only in human life. In the hell majority of

past deeds get redeemed. Now he shall have lesser obstacles of

destiny.

 

HE ENTERED THE THORNY FOREST , THEN AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING

HIMSELF OFTEN,

 

Again, in the fresh human life, he could not leave desires. He

still makes efforts, toils hard, he comes back purer from hell , but

decides to run, to chase, to show, to follow to compete, to prove,

to establish, to set trends.... To get something, to do something,

to know something. He makes more efforts in a focussed manner, to

get worldly things. He tolerates pains in the hope of more and more

worldly pleasures. But all worldly .

 

He however forgets that the real cause of his pain , is not lack of

efforts, vision, focus, capacity or knowledge, ..... But the

desires! Pains continue.But he acquires by his vision, capacity, a

decent quantum of good karmas to his credit- as past karmas do not

haunt him badly.

 

7 RUNNING AND LAUGHING

 

But efforts and karma have their own positive temporary results too.

Focus, desire, destiny, efforts, grace of God makes him rich in

conduct and wisdom, and happiness of worldly achievements start

coming to him as naturally as after night day comes. He enjoys

labour. And goes after death to heaven which in this story has been

described as

 

" AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES "

 

8 DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH

 

Worldly pleasures spoil the habit. Most of the good deeds got

exchanged in the heavens. From heavens again to the earth, Jeeva is

back to square one. Same desires, same habits, same attitude and

same hell again ! Because desires continue.

 

Alas ! How a man degrades himself by desiring. Cycle continues of

pleasure and pain, heaven and hell, gloom and gaity, ...... And

continues, and continues .... And so continue the desires, the

attitude towards the world, the likings, the dislikings, the

connection with the body, with mind, with ego, with intellect

because Jeeva never leaves the shelter of subtle body and causal

body even in heavens or in hell- he cannot do so there, he can only

do so in human life, because he acquired them in human life only at

the first time !!

 

Any views Shashikalaji ?

 

Jai Shree Krishna.

 

VYAS N B

--------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Having been caught in the circle of pleasure and pain and having

complete reliance on ever changing mind and intellect and having not

been able to distinguish the self with the ego - the Jeeva suffers

immense pains and only pains arising out of desires. The mind keeps

cheating Jeeva continuously both in temporary pleasures and

permanent pain.

 

Mind makes Jeeva believe that pleasure is generated by " fulfillment

of desires " - in which effort mind was on the driver's seat. It is

cheating in fact ! In reality, the " fulfillment of desires " do not

bring pleasure to Jeeva , the giving up of desire by the mind ,

brings relative pleasure !! You get pleasure because the desire is

no more! For example, we desire getting say 10000 dollars, and we

get it. We get pleased. Now the pleasure is not because we got 10000

dollars, but because there is no pain of desire. Giving up of desire

has generated pleasure by operation of law stated in BG 12:12 ! Had

receipt of dollars generated happiness we would not have felt sorrow

till money remained in tact with us!! We get cheated by the mind,

and there arise instantly more desires !! What a Maya !!

 

Evil is dead upon fulfillment of desire but gets awakened by more

desires! We never learn from our mistakes, Jee! In happiness, as

well as in sorrow,mind cheats us.

 

But who in fact is suffering? Certainly not the mental equipment

being inert itself. It is Jeeva , we ourselves suffer! What is our

fault? We think our ego, mind, intellect to be " me/mine " ! They

continue always, however, neither " you " nor " yours " !! Always ! They

are different altogether by nature wise, element wise, every

wise !!! They belong to the world, you belong to the God !

 

When defeat/failure comes , " your " mind/intellect/ego shamelessly

suggest to you that ....... " It happens " . They will pamper you by

telling that either the God was responsible for failure, or the

time, or kaliyuga, or world or that person/this circumstance/ that

happenning/ this incidence ....... Or destiny/fate/luck is

responsible ! We , mind/intellect/ego , are not responsible Mr

Self ! ( So you sometimes say " I was right but the time/luck was

bad " ) !

 

But do your mind/intellect/ego ever say so when you succeed ? No !

They then say " me " " me " - you also join the chorus - " my mind " , " my

vision " , " my capacity " , " my intelligence " , " me .... me .....

mine .... mine " , " I " , " I did it " ..... " Me mine me " ......

Non sense !!

 

What a cheating Jee ? What a treachery, Jee ? What an illusion, Dear

Sadhaks ?. How shabbily you mind, intellect, ego treat you, Dear ?

Are they worth being proud of ? How easily they convert you from "

sahaj sukhrasi " , avinashi ( imperishable and naturally blissful) ,

part of God, and a Master to a deficient, ever sorrowful , a slave

and a simpleton, a stupid, a damn fool !!

 

This is Maya , Jee !

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

4 STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF, CRYING

AND RUNNING ...

 

Once mind desires, the sorrow and pain is a must in all

circumstances. What else we can do in the beginning, middle or end

of worldly desires except beating ourselves, brooding, fretting? The

beatings referred in the story are the blows of fancies,

imaginations and whims. They are indeed caused by one self . We only

hurt ourselves and no body else when we are in fits of anger, greed,

anxieties, ill temper, attachment ... Desires! We keep hurting

ourselves and sufferring mental agonies and turmoils, inner storms,

agitations, turbulences, fears and what not. We cry ..... We try to

run away from adverse circumstances caused exclusively due to your

mind desiring worldly pleasures and things. Running away from

adversity but again desiring favourable circumstances !! Sometimes

the desire is to " get pleasure " , sometime it is to " remove pains " .

Desire continues, subjects change!!

 

5 FELL BLINDLY INTO WELL WITH HIDDEN MOUTH

 

Desires have hidden mouth. They blind the desirer too. At the outset

they look goals, pleasant. Health, wealth, fame, affluence, power,

position, status, flashy cars, spacious home, right, virtue,

authority, respect, .... great feelings. Desires are beautiful.

Pains come into experience in abundance later.

 

BLINDLY .... You get blinded by desires. Pains get hidden.This

process of blocking your vision is in 3 stages. In the first stage,

the truth is as hidden as fire is hidden by smoke. In the second

stage, the reality is as not visible as your face in a mirror with a

layer of dust on it. In the final stage the gets as concealed as a

fetus in the womb !!!

 

FELL/WELL : " fell blindly into a well " here in this story means Jiva

going to hell . Here one life time ends. Desires, (kaam), reaction

of anger emanating out of unfullfilled desires ( krodha) and greed

arising out of fulfilled desires ( lobha) are three gates of hell .

( Refer BG 16:21) . Hence " well " referred here can only be " hell " .

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

The conduct of a human being never ceases to astonish particularly

when mind functions with reference to Desires . Jeeva chooses to

desire worldly things inspite of the fact that there is no provision

made by the Creator, for fulfillment of desires. Desire of even " the

Baap (father) " of Lord Rama- Dashratha- was not fulfilled, Jee !

Father of God in no exception category- Bhaiyya !! You can only

renounce desires, you cannot fulfill them , Jee !

 

In this story " striking by himself " , and " crying " emanate

exclusively out of desires only. It is a law that a worldly desire

ALWAYS gets you pain ! Always, Jee ! Fools are those who desire,

Jee !

 

WHEN ARISING :

 

Before desire arises in you, there is no deficiency. The moment

desire arises, deficiency arises. Till desire is there deficiency is

there. Till deficiency is there, pain is there !

 

WHEN CONTINUING:

 

There is continuity of pain of deficiency, pain of efforts, running

agst time, competition, fear of failure, labour, anxiety,

tension .... and pain of uncertainty !

 

WHEN FULFILLED:

 

More desires arise instantly. New pain of maintaining connection (or

disconnection) with worldly thing received (or thankfully not

received) arises. Simultaneously, pride, greed, dishonesty, envy,

and falsehood arose, sins now are made rather more unhesitantly ,

ego baloons, .... all these invariably cause pains. On the top of

it, with whatever you get " connected " with - as fulfillment of

desires- starts " disconnecting " with you from the very moment

of " connection " ! You get only that which must leave you !!

 

WHEN NOT FULFILLED

 

Pain increases geometrically! From deficiency, uncertainty, loss of

energy/time/efforts to ..... frustration , failure, depression,

hatred, loss of confidence, humiliation, bitterness, and what not!

 

Your mind never suggests to you that by desiring you don't get

worldly things. Had that been the case- no body on this earth would

have been " poor " ! Who does not desire to be " rich " ? If you get,

you get only due to efforts, destiny and grace of God. If you get

also , then too the worldly things don't stay with you. If they

stay, then you don't stay . Disconnection is imminent !!

 

This is MAYA ! This is mind! This is the state of Jeeva !!!

How surprising ! How astonishing !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

 

Falling prey to " Maya " is the most astonishing wonderment in my view.

 

Some supplementary thoughts to the story explained by Tamma

Bhaiyya :

 

In the forest of worldly life our mind gets confused Jee ! and

there is a fear arising naturally in us because basically we are

permanent/ complete/never changing/ blissful - avinaashi/sahaj

sukhraasi Jee !!! But the world that this mind is attached to is -

temporary /

incomplete/deficient/ever changing/ ever sorrowful !!

 

Because of " svabhaav " (habits/individual attraction to the nature)

and past deeds/karma (association with strangers i.e the world) - we

desire worldly things and pleasure Jee !

 

Our desires are many, but as such only one Jee! ... Whatever we

think through mind .. Must happen Jee! The desires come in the form

of " my likings " ( Raag) and " my dislikings " (Dvesha). However, the

bitter truth is that simply by desiring we cannot get " worldly

pleasures " Jee, we can only get Daddy ! But that Daddy is

beyond " mind " Jee. Worldly pleasures are " natural " to mind, because

mind belongs

to the world Jee, so does intellect and ego Jee( notion of me/mine).

This mind

(which I had said before is better if thrown in the dustbin) seeks

world and

worldly pleasures only Jee.

 

This mind cheats us Jee in this regard. We like absolute fools

believe that

" desiring " is necessary for getting worldly things. We forget under

the illusion

caused by me/mine notion ( MAYA) that while we don't desire sickness

or death or

adversity, still we get it Jee. Even highly educated people,

possessing a

thousand hands and eyes, say - " You must desire. The world will

come to a

grinding

hault if you stop desiring Jee. They think that if you don't have

desires, you

are dead " Jee!

 

What a belief, Jee !! How wonderful, Jee!! How surprising !! As if

they desired to take birth, to grow, to fall sick, to deteriorate,

to die and as if they really selected their parents, children,

spouses, relatives, circumstances, situations, incidences, states,

happennings, colour, caste, creed, country, time, age !!! WHAT A

MAYA ! WHAT AN ILLUSION !!

 

That the most astonishing wonderment in human life, Jee! Maya !

Ignorance!! Stupidity !!

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-------------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

There is nothing greater than Paramatma. Whatever great thing you

have received, Paramatma is greater than even that. If you get

anything greater than Paramatma (surprisingly), then please,

immediately share will all of us, so that we also come to know. But

as such there is not such a thing, or else it would have not escaped

Swamiji's sight. Thank you !

 

Sarvottam

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

1. THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN

 

This world is the forest in which we all, with minds, wander about.

It is a forest because with the cool air and beauty of nature ,

there are thorns also. There are wild animals also and chances of

our getting lost too. Being forest there are no ways visible. We

have to make our own ways. All the beauty and dangers of forest are

present in human life. - of every body- no exceptions.

 

2 WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED, THAT FEARFUL ONE

 

We are not peaceful. We are confused - constantly seeking pleasure

and happiness. We are fearful. We don't know what the next moment

might have in store for us. We may die anytime, anywhere. We are

confused as well as fearful because we are basically split at the

sub conscience level. While body, mind, ego etc " natuarally " remain

estalished in prakrithi (world/nature) only being part of them, but

we don't belong to nature. It is law that fear develops when one

enters the arena to which he doesnot belong or ONLY when when is in

company of " others " .. When we get attracted/connected

with " stranger/other " world, fear and confusion stick with us

permanently, (which fear goes ONLY when we disconnect from world).

Constant changes and uncertainties of the world also make us

confused and fearful.

 

3 WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

We are equipped in this forest with sharp intellect and vision,

imagination of mind. With capacity to work hard, and control other

species, animals, and fellow men ( a thousand hands) and an

exceptional vision ( a thousand eyes) we set about in this world to

seek pleasure and peace. We seek help of mind. We make efforts to

fulfill our desires.We want to be the best, the wealthiest, the most

intelligent, the most knowledgeable, the healthiest, the greatest.

We want to have every worldly comfort which our Dear and our own

mind can conceive! We don't want to lose. We always want to win. We

are proud of our mind and our intellect (vision). Mind gives a

solution to our eternal desire of being peaceful and happy. DESIRE

FOR WORLDLY THINGS. Since we like mind, we have connected with mind,

WE ACCEPT the suggestions of mind. We start seeking worldly

pleasures.

 

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear Shivkumar,

 

It is extremely difficult to answer your question! Wonderments are so

many and to grade them and point out one among them as the greatest

of wonderments is something, at least for me, is not possible!

 

* We see people die day in and day out, yet we think we will go on

living for ever and do not attempt to follow the Path of Shreyas!

 

* Ishavasyopanishad starts bang with the advice that everything

belongs to God and so one should not grab what is others " due " ;Yet

we have businessmen and politicians amassing wealth for generations

to sit and eat, worse stilL to commit atrosities and enjoy!

 

* We attend a Satsang and come out appreciating the discourser, but

without dropping a Kotha (not valid) coin even in the hundi, while it

is said " kuch paane ke liye, kuch khona hai " , " never receive anything

free " , " shriya deyam, Bhiya deyam... " etc!

 

* " Help ever, hurt never " it is said, where what most of us do

is " Hurt freely, Help seldom " !

 

* Every spiritual speaker and every scripture drill in us that we

should cultivate " Atma bhava (consciousness of the self) and

not 'Deha Bhava (Body consciousness), but what we decorate and adore

is our body of muscles, blood and stink and not the pure and pious

atma!

 

We can go on and on without end, isn't it, but yet not be sure which

is less greater!

Yet your question is good and great, for it will make one think deep!

 

Regards.

Prof Ramanujam.

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

For the benefit of all, The story Michaelji has listed come from Yoga

Vasishtha. I recommend that all spiritual aspirant must read this

book at least once. I read (reading continues for ever...) -

Vashishtah's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda and I found it very

beneficial in understanding my own mind. Yes, unfolding of who you

are is the most wonderful thing and at the same time study of mind,

its tricks, its way to pull us down, etc. are very surprising to

study.

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

 

Hari Om

 

Michael

 

You have indeed presented to all of us , the true and real story of

each of us. All sadhaks should feel grateful to you. Sadhaks like

Michael and our Mike Keenor are real and respectable examples of

how a soul gallops towards the TRUTH once a desire or need has arisen

in it to find out the Divine . Soul recognises not any distinctions

of caste, creed, colour, country,. A burning desire is more than

enough to progress in spiritual uplifting.

 

This story in the first reading appears " mindless " though it is

exclusively about the " mind " - a funny story but very serious. For

serious sadhaks such stories set an order, a process of " sadhana " ….

And lead them straight to their goal- freedom from pain /sorrow …

systematically … step by step. For intelligent people such stories

are a challenge , a riddle, a reminder ! It is too brief in size but

too big in effect- like an arrow.

 

This story covers substance of . Soul ( SAT) , Conscience,. Jeeva,

Ego, Mind, Intellect, Destiny, Svabhav ( nature/habit) , Jagat (

World), Worldly Pleasures, Pain of the soul, Desires, MAYA ( Avidya,

agyaan, darkness, illusion, ignorance, stupidity, jugglery, ) ,

Knowledge ( CHIT, gyaan, light ) , Bondage, Liberation, , and

Jagdish ( God, Paramatma, ANANDA,- Divine, natural, absolute not

relative-, BLISS, PEACE ) This story is timeless. When we come

across such ocean deep stories , we cant help feeling proud of our

Religion, Saints and Sages, Heritage, and Holy Scriptures of eternal

Sanatan Dharma.

 

This " gaagar main saagar " ( Ocean in water pot) story first

thoroughly agitates and astonishes even the best of the human egos,

intellects and minds ; then gives them a powerful shock ; then

pacifies /satisfies/floors them fully. And then of course silences

them . In the end it makes YOU meet YOURSELF in SAT CHIT ANANDA

FORM.!

 

This story is the state of JIVA in his present form and is applicable

to all of us. It starts with Bondage and ends with Liberation and the

JIVA claiming the SATCHITANANDA FORM of Paramatma. Nothing explains

more eloquently the role of MAYA than this powerful short story. Who

else can be the writer of this story than CONSCIENCE which is direct

agent of Paramatma living in the human body along with JIVA ? Like

two birds on a tree – referred once by Mike Keenor in one of his

messages !! Who else can hold the soul so powerfully and ask such

direct questions than CONSCIENCE ?

 

It is from one of the most respected Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma –

called YOGA VAASHISHTHA - where Sage Vaashishtha teaches Lord

Rama .

 

Balance in next message. In the meantime serious sadhaks should re

read this story – seriously & peacefully, in order to gain out of it.

The best way to read it is to " feel " it so that your mind becomes a

scene and you become the seer and your conscience starts

responding. " To feel " – put yourself into equanimous zone in which

zone your conscience always resides – be like a court judge- no

personal likings / dislikings. Read it as a challenge to your mental

equipment. Believe for once in what ever clues I have given here in

above.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Dear Gita

Life is greatest wonder inthe universal

if some body undestand it he will understand universe.

 

Hoshu Hameedullah

--------------------------

Hare Krishna

 

Naravat Sahab, I have one question. Which Lord's name is Latiyal? I

don't know, never heard of it before.

 

About your question,

Please enlighten us that by knowing the greatest astonishment of this

world, how will it benefit you spiritually or otherwise. I am unable

to decipher the purpose of this question.

 

Thanks,

Varun Paprunia

--------------------------

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Mike,

 

It is an extra-ordinary story of a spiritual seeker and his

observation on himself transparently. I felt as if it is told of me

and my own foolishness! Thanks for sharing it. This is my

interpretation of the story.

 

Story: FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST

 

… is the confused jungle of thoughts in one's perception.

 

Story: MAN WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED

 

… is the ego (or individual) lost in it.

 

Story: FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND EYES

 

… is the infitude of variance in the perceived world perpetually

throwing mutually conflicitng fears and desires on the individual.

 

Story: STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF

 

… means afterall the individual himself is harming himself thanks to

his ignorance.

 

 

Story: CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN

MOUTH

 

… means the lamenting fool drowns oneself beneath the ignorance of

depression in the name of sadhana shutting down one's sensory

operatus fearful of its transparency on one's reality.

 

Story: GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST

 

… the fool entered into silence with no appreciation cannot

withstand its oblivious nature and runs back into the same life full

of chaotic thoughts and actions.

 

Story: AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING AND

LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

… the story of repeated convolutions of delusions, illusions and

halluscinations with the worldly interaction continues till one's

tendencies (Vasana in Sanskrit) continue to haunt oneself.

 

Story: HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS

OF SUCH KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY

ME FOR A WHILE. HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you?

Why do you run in vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do

nothing " . " You are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " .

 

… the inner wisdom keeps its check on one's misconduct in one's

spiritual progress and acts as a catalyst to force one into self-

examination to root-cause one's problem rather than scrutinizing the

environment … realizes that the environment was never the enemy, but

oneself hiding from oneself perpetually … the individual comfounded

not understanding (not withstanding) what is going on wonders, " Who

am I? Am I not my enemy in the first place? Why am I running

frantically? Even if I run for ever, can I escape from myself?

Because of my association with my image, I am corrupt … is it not

time to drop this image? "

 

Story: THUS , SAYING , HE WEPT .

 

… But … how to drop that image – that is where, Mike, I am stuck

personally!

 

THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN THAT HUGE

FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT FOREST IS

THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

… definitely … the confused thoughts and actions still swarm me …

thanks to the image I am unable to let go … that is where, Mike, I

am stuck personally … I suppose the image will drop out one day …

when, I realize that I do not need to hide in the well … when I

realize the wandering itself is WONDERFUL in itself … when I realize

that there need not be push of desire to get out of a well and there

need not be any pull of fear drowning me into its oblivion … when I

realize that the very fear and desire are rooted in the very image I

am holding on to … when I realize that I don't need to frantically

recycle myself between oblivious wandering in the world and drowning

in the well … probably by continuous self-scrutiny in spite of such

frantic wandering around and drwoning within!!

 

Thanks for the WONDERFUL fact to teach me with its WONDERFUL

transparency.

 

THANK YOU. It is really WONDERFUL to receive the knowledge which

alone can eliminate the oblivious darkness haunting me within.

 

THANK YOU.

 

Deep Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------

in this world man and his forms form the greatest wondermant. man is

god and god is man. surprises are hidden. effort to unravel them is

god realisation. all accomplishments are possible through the

humanhood.

 

Prabhakar C L

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Deepaavali Subhaakankshalu

 

This is a very beautiful enlightening Deepavali question.

 

Generally all of us are interested to know about greatest

wonderment. They give us a lot of happiness .

Lord Krishna described the nature of the soul in diverse ways to

make Arjuna understand the truth about it.

He showed the wonderment or marvellous nature of perception,

description and hearing of that truth.

 

Ascharyavatpasyati kaschidenam ascharyavadvadaati

tadhaivachanyaha

Ascharyavachhainamanyahsrunoti srutvapyenamvedanachaiva

kaschit

 

The soul is marvellous and wonderful. Some people perceives this

soul as marvellous, scarce another likewise speaks thereof as

marvellous, and some other hears of it as marvellous, while there

are some who know it not even on hearing of it.

 

The Kathopanishat confirms the marvellous ' Aascharyovakta

kushalosya labdhascharyo'-- with the above profound truth of

Bhagavad Gita.

 

After describing thus the difficulty and marvellous nature of the

truth about the soul, the Lord concludes the Sankhyayoga .

 

Dr.Goli

-----------------------------

Dear All,

Namaskar,

 

In this world the greatest astonishment of all is that we search God

every where and not within our selves where He lives in our divine

body. We live in God as His tiny cell and He lives within us. We do

not even want to know what is the Purpose of Human Birth as ordained

by God.

 

Through our Atma He can also talk to us provided we can search Him

within ourselves by following Rta (cosmic Laws of necessity) which

having created God follows Himself sternly lest a great harm is done

to His Grand wondrous Design.

 

God revealed Vedic knowledge through the human souls of Rsis

and Munnies of yore who found God living within them selves.

 

It is MAYA-the cosmic delusion which creates a golden disc and hides

God living within our selves. Those who get out of the vehement

effect of Maya and follow the Rta- cosmic Laws of social, moral and

physical order find God in no time.

Those who found God in the past left for the human beings an eternal

harmonised divine, spiritual and material knowledge and it is great

miracle that we still want this knowledge from those who have not

found God within themselves and are keen to build material empires

owing to the gross ignorance of the people. Theey have made us to

deviate from the original Vedic knowledge.

 

Our blind material pursuits which create an illusion of comfort to

our ego and rudderless senses and sense organs in this vast

turbulent sea of matter created by Maya (Phantasmagoria) makes us

feel that we are only the perishable material bodies and we go

searching for greatest wonderments/astonishments some where in this

material world (empty box) built on Shuniya (cosmic void).

With warm regards,

 

Prem Sabhlok

 

 

-----------------------------

 

In Gita Yudhistir was asked the same question and he replied that

the greatest surprise was that though everyone knows that he has to

die someday, we all behave and go through life as if we are going to

live forever. That was the greatest of surprises in this world.

The moral of Michael Hagen's story is that we are all lost souls

going about the motions of living, without knowing what we are

doing, without knowing the purpose of our existence. We are like the

man who runs and keeps on falling in the well because we do

thoughtless things over and over again. Only a God-realised person

or through meditation can one know the real meaning of life.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Namaste

 

Gita is not some book where a listing of wonders or surprises is

available. Only at one place in second chapter the soul has been

described such that some see it as a surprise. Human conduct now a

days is very surprising . Every where it is oondha (reverse).

- We know that to tell a lie is bad, but still we tell a lie.

- We know that to smoke is bad, but still we smoke.

- We know that our abode is temporary in this world but still we

create houses here with a provision that it should be solid enough

to last 200 years.

- We know that we shall die, but still we behave as if we shall live

for ever. Mind is also a surprise creation of Prabhu.

- We know that satta (speculation) is very bad, but still we

speculate.

- We keep saying " main " main " like a goat though if some body asks

what is " main " ( I ) we shall not be able to answer.

- We know that death is inevitable, but still if some body dies we

grieve. Every general conduct or action of almost entire humanity is

appearing surprising to me. How many to count? Our mind keeps

creating surprises every now and then.

 

Draupadi Arjun Sharma

----------------------------

Dear Aspirants of Peace

 

On this question , though I dont have much to state as my knowledge

of Gita is very very limited. But recently a friend gave me an

Indian Holy text in which the following short story was there. It

appeared very surprising story to me. I wonder if any one can throw

more light on it.

 

" THERE IS A FORMIDABLE AND DESOLATE FOREST IN WHICH THERE WAS A MAN.

WITH HIS MIND CONFUSED , THAT FEARFUL ONE WITH A THOUSAND HANDS AND

EYES, STRIKING AT HIS BACK VIOLENTLY WITH IRON BARS BY HIMSELF,

CRYING AND RUNNING , FELL BLINDLY INTO A WELL WITH A HIDDEN MOUTH.

THEN, GETTING UP FROM THE WELL IN DUE TIME, HE ENTERED THE THORNY

FOREST. THEN, AGAIN DEPARTING AND BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN , RUNNING

AND LAUGHING AND HAVING GONE TO A COOL FOREST OF PLAINTAIN TREES.

DEPARTING FROM THAT IN A MOMENT, BEATING HIMSELF OFTEN AND RUNNING

AWAY , HE AGAIN FELL INTO THE SAME WELL WITH THE HIDDEN MOUTH.

 

HAVING SEEN FOR A LONG TIME , THAT PERSON WHOSE CONDUCT WAS OF SUCH

KIND , AND HAVING HELD HIM UP BY FORCE, HE WAS AWAKENED BY ME FOR A

WHILE.

 

HE WAS ASKED BY ME : " What is this? Who are you? Why do you run in

vain? THUS ASKED, HE SAID : " I am no body . I do nothing " . " You

are my enemy . Having been seen by you , I am lost " . THUS , SAYING ,

HE WEPT . THEN , LAUGHING , HE GAVE UP HIS LIMBS ALL ROUND. THUS IN

THAT HUGE FOREST MANY MEN LIKE HIM DWELL , WANDERING ABOUT. THAT

FOREST IS THERE EVEN TODAY !!! "

 

My question to this forum is to explain the above story. Who held

whom? Who asked questions ? What is the substance ? What is the

moral?

 

Michael Hagen

 

----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

In yaksha Prasna---Greatest wonder said that man seeing his

fellowman dieing and yet lives with ignorance. in Bagavat geetha

Bagavan says at human one instance " Mooda " . (Total Senseless). But

even after knowing it if one lives the same old way, it is

ashtonishing.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

----------------------------

 

 

Namaste

 

I will not touch upon that Yaksha/ Yuddhister talk- I am sure many

sadhaks will quote that.

 

Everything of this creation surprises human mind. The mind itself is

surprising. Surprises occur in mind.

God- His existence without direct presence !! How surprising?

Is not it surprising as to how the life itself sustains in the

world.? Brain functioning. Body functioning. Diversities. Thoughts.

Stars. Sun. Moon. Water. What is not surprising. Everything is

edible. Even dust. Everything has life. Nothing has life, except

soul. Everything exists. Nothing exists except consciousness.

Everything is real. Nothing is real. God is no where visible. It is

everywhere present. Soul is no where visible in the body, it is

everywhere in the body. Every creature gets food. Death is most

certain. Death is most uncertain. What is visible, does not exist.

What is not visible, exists.

 

Coming to Gita , Lord starts with surprises only to Arjuna- when He

defines soul. The best surprise- NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO, NABHAVO

VIDYATE SATAH ! (Gita 2/16).

 

Bandook Singh

----------------------------

Shankar ! Shankar!!

 

Which are the sights in which defects do not exist? Which are the

directions where there is no burning of sorrow ? Who are the people

in there is no transitoriness? Which are the actions in which there

is indeed no illussion? Isn't it surprising? Life itself is

surprising as a whole ! Man was quite different before his birth.

But, brought into existence here in this world , he becomes

different within days. Children, wife and wealth , everything is

considered by the mind like the elixir of life !! But, that does not

help afterwards at the end of life when the most pleasing is only

stupefying as poison !!!

 

Lallubhai Chirimar

----------------------------

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