Please Clarify this Mistake - IS is Not Seen and IS NOT alone is seen !

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

(THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION MAY BE LIMITING DUE TO THE COMPLEXITY OF

THE QUESTION - SADHAKS, PLEASE HELP CLARIFY IF NOT PROPERLY

TRANSLATED)

 

In Saadhan – Sudhaa – Sindhu pg 145, right hand column it is said -

" The mistake that is made is that I am " this world " - In this

manner for that which is " Is Not " we place, or attribute it

as " IS " . By attributing the " IS Not " for " IS " only, the existence

of " Is Not " (the world) is seen, and our sight does not go towards

the " IS " In reality, " the World in Is-ness " – and in the same

manner, in " IS NOT " to experience " IS-ness " . By experiencing in " IS

NOT " , " IS-ness " , the " IS Not " will remain non-existent and " IS " will

remain. "

 

I want to understand, that what is the mistake? What are we to

understand? In " Is-ness to see the world " or " in the world, see Is-

ness " . The difficulty is that the " IS " is not seen in the world and

that which " IS NOT " that alone is seen. May all sadhaks, kindly

using practical, and applicable means take the trouble of clarifying

this.

 

Thank you,

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

 

IN HINDI

In In Saadhan – Sudhaa – Sindhu pg 145, daaye column mein padhe –

" Bhool yeh hoti hai ki hum " Sansaar hai " – is prakaar " nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa aarop ker lete hai. " Nahin: mein " Hian " kaa aarop

karnese hi " Nahin " (sansaar) ki sataa dikhati hai, aur " Hai " ki

taraf drshti nahin jaati. Vaastav mein " Hai mein Sansar " – is

prakaar " nahin " mein " hai " kaa anubhav karnaa chaahiye. " Nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa anubhav karane se " Nahin " nahin rahegaa aur " Hai "

raha jaayegaa. "

 

Mujhe yeh samjhanaa hai ki bhool kyaa hai? Hame kyaa samjhanaa

chaahiye? " hai " mein sansaar yaa fir " sansaar mein Hai? Kathinaayi

yeh hai ki jo " Hai " hai weh sansaar mein dikhataa nahin aur

jo " Nahin " nahin hai wahin dikhataa hai. Samast saadhak kripayaa

kriyaatmak samaadhaan denekaa kasht kare.

 

Sadhanyavaad !

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

(Refined translation by Varun Paprunia)

 

In Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu pg 145, right hand column it is said

'World IS'- This the mistake we make. In this manner, we falsely

accept NOT as IS. By attributing NOT as IS, only NOT(world) seems to

exist, and our sight does not go towards IS. In reality, IS in

World, i.e. IS in NOT should be experienced. By experiencing IS in

NOT, NOT will not persist and IS will be left.

 

I want to understand, that what is the mistake? What are we to

understand? IS in world or world in IS? Difficulty is that the 'IS'

is not seen in the world and that which is 'NOT' that alone is seen.

May all sadhaks, kindly using practical, and applicable means take

the trouble of clarifying this.

 

Thank you,

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

 

IN HINDI

In In Saadhan – Sudhaa – Sindhu pg 145, daaye column mein padhe –

" Bhool yeh hoti hai ki hum " Sansaar hai " – is prakaar " nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa aarop ker lete hai. " Nahin: mein " Hian " kaa aarop

karnese hi " Nahin " (sansaar) ki sataa dikhati hai, aur " Hai " ki

taraf drshti nahin jaati. Vaastav mein " Hai mein Sansar " – is

prakaar " nahin " mein " hai " kaa anubhav karnaa chaahiye. " Nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa anubhav karane se " Nahin " nahin rahegaa aur " Hai "

raha jaayegaa. "

 

Mujhe yeh samjhanaa hai ki bhool kyaa hai? Hame kyaa samjhanaa

chaahiye? " hai " mein sansaar yaa fir " sansaar mein Hai? Kathinaayi

yeh hai ki jo " Hai " hai weh sansaar mein dikhataa nahin aur

jo " Nahin " nahin hai wahin dikhataa hai. Samast saadhak kripayaa

kriyaatmak samaadhaan denekaa kasht kare.

 

Sadhanyavaad !

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

 

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

May I Offer what I understood.

Nahi Hai (IS NOT) = hardware of computer, Tangible.

Hai (IS) = Software, Intangible.

Both are supplementary.

 

Raja Gurdasani

 

---------------------------

Understanding " I am this world " is the mistake.

Because with this understanding one gets involved or attached.

 

The truth is that the world is for me, for experiencing me, for

expression by me.....

But am not this world. With this understanding, me is above the

world while being in the world.....In a state of happiness,

bliss....experiencing the ISness

Sushil Jain

 

---------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is also addressed in Swamiji's posting of Nov 6th, " All is ONE

and ONE is All " .

That which we call world, is in reality ONE or God or Pure

Consciousness or Awareness.

How?

If we investigate the reality of all our experiences, ultimately it

will be, " being conscious of some object(s) " expressed as particular

thought(s). When I say, " I see a tree " , it is a thought first of all

and then what is really happening in our experience is " seeing of

form " , re-cognized through prior memory as " tree " . The closest to

reality to describe this experience is " there is consciousness of

form named tree " . When I say " tree " , I mean " tree is " , tree comes

into being for me. If I am not conscious of tree, then it is NOT.

Similarly all are such experiences in which objects

perceived/conceived changes but Consciousness never goes or comes,

remains steady. It shines even the absence of objects.

Thus only Reality is Consciousness which IS, but we super-impose

World onto this experience which is " IS-NOT " , IS-NOT seen and IS

hiding in the background.

Actually there is no " I " that sees " tree " is our experience ever.

Seer(I-body-mind-senses) and seen(tree) are not experienced, only

Seeing is experienced, which is conceptualized as " I(Pratap) see a

tree " for communicating!

Thus, this world (all) is conceptual, only seeing or hearing or

smelling or tasting or touching sensations or any combinations

thereof is reality, which gets resolved by mind-stuff(Antahkaran)

and named/labelled and become separate objects of world. Any

sensations by organs expressed as thought-feeling is nothing but

Consciousness only, and therefore, all there is, is Consciousness or

God in real experience.

This is the IS-ness or Reality of the world we experience. We cannot

experience the world in itself or in Absolute terms with names(no

objects tell us what they are!). Therefore it is called Brahman,

that which is wordless/nameless, attributeless, cannot be divided or

located in space-time as different objects because to do that

separations, they need words(names). Thus Consciousness is ONE

without a second(advaita) Reality.

This is experiential to us all the time but never pay attention,

whereas world we describe is the one perceived by sense organs and

conceived by Mind-intellect-ego as " thoughts-objects " giving rise to

belief that what we see outside is real but in fact is IS-NOT as

world objects, but same is, IS as GOD. All that is here is Brahman

Manifest or otherwise. Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman, says the Sruti.

Lord Krishna say we are Kshetragna(Knower consciousness) and world

is kshetra(field) of knowledge!

Namaskar...........

 

Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

(Refined translation by Varun Paprunia)

 

In Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu pg 145, right hand column it is said

'World IS'- This the mistake we make. In this manner, we falsely

accept NOT as IS. By attributing NOT as IS, only NOT(world) seems to

exist, and our sight does not go towards IS. In reality, IS in

World, i.e. IS in NOT should be experienced. By experiencing IS in

NOT, NOT will not persist and IS will be left.

 

I want to understand, that what is the mistake? What are we to

understand? IS in world or world in IS? Difficulty is that the 'IS'

is not seen in the world and that which is 'NOT' that alone is seen.

May all sadhaks, kindly using practical, and applicable means take

the trouble of clarifying this.

 

Thank you,

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

 

IN HINDI

In In Saadhan – Sudhaa – Sindhu pg 145, daaye column mein padhe –

" Bhool yeh hoti hai ki hum " Sansaar hai " – is prakaar " nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa aarop ker lete hai. " Nahin: mein " Hian " kaa aarop

karnese hi " Nahin " (sansaar) ki sataa dikhati hai, aur " Hai " ki

taraf drshti nahin jaati. Vaastav mein " Hai mein Sansar " – is

prakaar " nahin " mein " hai " kaa anubhav karnaa chaahiye. " Nahin "

mein " Hai " kaa anubhav karane se " Nahin " nahin rahegaa aur " Hai "

raha jaayegaa. "

 

Mujhe yeh samjhanaa hai ki bhool kyaa hai? Hame kyaa samjhanaa

chaahiye? " hai " mein sansaar yaa fir " sansaar mein Hai? Kathinaayi

yeh hai ki jo " Hai " hai weh sansaar mein dikhataa nahin aur

jo " Nahin " nahin hai wahin dikhataa hai. Samast saadhak kripayaa

kriyaatmak samaadhaan denekaa kasht kare.

 

Sadhanyavaad !

Ram Ram

Vineet Sarvottam

 

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

A doha by Swami Sundar Das ji runs like this

 

" Hai jo Sundar hai sada, nahin to Sundar nahin.

Nahin jo nishidin dekhiye, hai jo deekhat nahin "

 

" That which IS is ever beautiful, that which IS-NOT is not

beautiful. That which is NOT is seen daily, that which IS, is not

seen (visible). "

 

Om Brahm Satyam,

 

Suresh C Sharma

------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

What is NOT or what Not as IS. Deep Dream stage one sees everything

as he sees in waking stage. Sometime one sees in dream that he

never experienced also. Dream stage experienced without eyes, mouth,

etc. looking like actual is NOT on waking. Now awakening is NOT

when obtained Gyana (Knowledge). So both are NOT. Gyana (Knowledge)

only IS. That is why Bhagavan says one can attain HIM only by Gyana

(Knowledge).

Dear sadaks, pondering over so many things goes waste without

saying RAM RAM or Narayana Or Om Nama Shivaya. When one practices

Bakthi (Devotion) with Vairag (Detachment) and Sraddha (Faith)

concentrating on Bhagavan names, all questions are automatically

answered and in this same birth & one could be elevated.

 

B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------

Everything in this world is an illusion. So what we see with our

eyes is maya or unreal. I feel that this is what is meant.

Hari Shanker Deo

----------------------------

Vineetji, I hope this helps

 

By 'doing' that is attained, which is created-destroyed and is far

off. 'IS' is naturally attained. It is attained by 'accepting', not

by 'doing'. World is 'NOT'. The ISness (honapan-existence) which is

perceived to be that of world, that ISness is of Paramatma

(God). 'IS' name is only of God; because 'IS' can be only One. That

God is ours. As a son accepts mother-father, wife accepts husband,

in a similar manner accept God.

 

By accepting God as IS world is NOT-ness (non-existence) is proved.

By accepting soul as IS body is NOT-ness (non-existence)is proved.

In the mind world's existence has been accepted- this is the

barrier! Reason for this is - expectation of happiness, desire and

enjoyment.

 

By accepting 'NOT' as 'IS' that which actually 'IS', got lost. Only

by accepting that God is attained. But without accepting NOT as NOT

you will not be able to accept IS. Sun and New moon (amavasya)

cannot stay together.

 

From Sagar Ke Moti, page 112

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/Sag

ar%20ke%20Moti/main.html

 

Varun Paprunia

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

May I Offer what I understood.

Nahi Hai (IS NOT) = hardware of computer, Tangible.

Hai (IS) = Software, Intangible.

Both are supplementary.

 

Raja Gurdasani

 

---------------------------

Understanding " I am this world " is the mistake.

Because with this understanding one gets involved or attached.

 

The truth is that the world is for me, for experiencing me, for

expression by me.....

But am not this world. With this understanding, me is above the

world while being in the world.....In a state of happiness,

bliss....experiencing the ISness

Sushil Jain

 

---------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is also addressed in Swamiji's posting of Nov 6th, " All is ONE

and ONE is All " .

That which we call world, is in reality ONE or God or Pure

Consciousness or Awareness.

How?

If we investigate the reality of all our experiences, ultimately it

will be, " being conscious of some object(s) " expressed as particular

thought(s). When I say, " I see a tree " , it is a thought first of all

and then what is really happening in our experience is " seeing of

form " , re-cognized through prior memory as " tree " . The closest to

reality to describe this experience is " there is consciousness of

form named tree " . When I say " tree " , I mean " tree is " , tree comes

into being for me. If I am not conscious of tree, then it is NOT.

Similarly all are such experiences in which objects

perceived/conceived changes but Consciousness never goes or comes,

remains steady. It shines even the absence of objects.

Thus only Reality is Consciousness which IS, but we super-impose

World onto this experience which is " IS-NOT " , IS-NOT seen and IS

hiding in the background.

Actually there is no " I " that sees " tree " is our experience ever.

Seer(I-body-mind-senses) and seen(tree) are not experienced, only

Seeing is experienced, which is conceptualized as " I(Pratap) see a

tree " for communicating!

Thus, this world (all) is conceptual, only seeing or hearing or

smelling or tasting or touching sensations or any combinations

thereof is reality, which gets resolved by mind-stuff(Antahkaran)

and named/labelled and become separate objects of world. Any

sensations by organs expressed as thought-feeling is nothing but

Consciousness only, and therefore, all there is, is Consciousness or

God in real experience.

This is the IS-ness or Reality of the world we experience. We cannot

experience the world in itself or in Absolute terms with names(no

objects tell us what they are!). Therefore it is called Brahman,

that which is wordless/nameless, attributeless, cannot be divided or

located in space-time as different objects because to do that

separations, they need words(names). Thus Consciousness is ONE

without a second(advaita) Reality.

This is experiential to us all the time but never pay attention,

whereas world we describe is the one perceived by sense organs and

conceived by Mind-intellect-ego as " thoughts-objects " giving rise to

belief that what we see outside is real but in fact is IS-NOT as

world objects, but same is, IS as GOD. All that is here is Brahman

Manifest or otherwise. Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman, says the Sruti.

Lord Krishna say we are Kshetragna(Knower consciousness) and world

is kshetra(field) of knowledge!

Namaskar...........

 

Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -