Guest guest Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hare Krishna Swamiji has said that `Hinduism goes from root to leaves whereas today's science goes from leaves to root.' What does this mean? Thanks, Varun Paprunia NEW POSTING In Geeta 10/8 The Lord says - aham sarvasya prabhavo - I am the origin of all. HE is the root of all and HE is all too.(See Geeta 7/7 Mattah parataram nanyatkinchidasti Dhananjay) The modern science tries to search the secrets of nature 1. by physical means and 2. from outside in. This depth is unfathomable since HE is the deepest secret of all the Creation and cannot be found by physical means. While Hinduism has proved that by searching HIM, the creator, the secrets of nature/science which is HIS creation - are automatically revealed. Jai Ramjiki. Dr. Shobha S. A wonderful statement. I would even go further: " Vedaanta goes from root to leaves, while science jumps from leaf to leaf " . Respects. Naga Narayana !! Naham Karta Harikartha !! Hinduism & Science From the root to the leaves and from leaves to the roots The thought-provoking manner in which Swamiji has put forth a comparitive perspective on how our Vedantic religious world view contrasts with that of the modern scientific world view, using the example of a process of understanding a tree - from the roots to leaves or vice versa is really illuminating. There are ample confusions on this issue even among some very learned and devout people as much among so-called rationalists and eminernt philosophers of science. Generally the basis on which the approach of Hinduism and that of modern science need to be differentiated must follow from a critique of following polar positions: Firstly, the error of absolute identity, which seeks to place our religious and spiritual traditions and philosophical standpoints at par with those of science, as if both are not really different and that they would eventually converge (collapse??) into one another at some point of time. This error manifests in further litany errors of claiming that Hinduism is the most scientific of religions and that from its very inception it has known everything that we otherwise are now trying to know through science. There is a similar attempts to portray some of the modern scientists and physicists like Einstein, as the true " ÿogi " or " rishi " of our times and our own ancient " rishis " or " seers " of yore as their " poor cousins " , crippled by lack of modern scientific methodology and who therfore resorted to esoteric modes of explanation. Secondly, there is an error of absolute contradiction, which seeks to pit both Hinduism and modern science in exclusion and opposition to each other and as fundementally irreconciliable. This results in mutual exclusion, wherein those believing in Hinduism fail to recognise the distinct validity and autonomy of scientific cognition and think that one's own religion can indeed explain every thing. There is a mirror image of the same kind of error among some adherants of science, who think that science can explain everything and that religion must therfore be consigned to museum of history. Religion and science are like two faces of the same coin; they are only different cognitive tools of realisation and of knowledge and the subjects their substantive enquiry are different and distinct. Both are needed to understand the roots and leaves, as much the trunk and the branches of tree. !!! Sri Krishnarpanamasthu !!! V.A.Acharya Dear Sadaks, Hinduism gives knowledge from seed to root, from root to leaves, from leaves to fruits and flowers. Hinduism says about creation that was earlier and destroyed and again creation came. Great Saint Poothanam on whose lap Sri Krishna sat, wrote about 13 worlds (other than our) in Ngyanapana that people exits there. He also sang about human birth rare. How human raise from lower births. Upanashids clearly give about black hole. Sri Krishna took Arjuna by Chariot through black to reach Vaikunt and brought back a Bramin children to life. But science go from evidence that exists and call discovered. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2008 Report Share Posted November 19, 2008 Hare Krishna Swamiji has said that `Hinduism goes from root to leaves whereas today's science goes from leaves to root.' What does this mean? Thanks, Varun Paprunia NEW POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Varunji, Thank you for a very good question. As pointed out very eloquently by Naga Narayanaji, that the science jumps from leaf to leaf. Surely, science is not going from leaf to the root. it goes from inference to inference only, it makes us believe only what it can prove. With the limited equipment (senses, mind and intellect), how can God and His massive creation (being so unlimited) can be understood or proved by the limited equipment of human being and the science? Hinduism goes from root to leaves, we start with a firm belief that God pervades the whole universe, he is the root, the leaves and whatever else which remains. There are many verses in Gitaji relating to this topic, !0-8 and 7-7 have been posted in a previous response, few more are: Gita (15-1) " urdhvamulam adhsakham, asvattham prahur avyayam chandamsi yasya parnani, yas tam veda sa vedvit " They speak of an imperishable Asvattha (Banyan) tree* with its root above and branches below; Its leaves are the metres of the Vedas; he who knows this, is the knower of the Vedas. *Asvattha tree is in resemblance of the tree of creation Gitaji (10-39) " yas ca'pi sarvabhutanam, bijam tad aham Arjuna na tad asti vina yat syan, maya bhutam caracaram " Arjuna, I am even that which is the seed of all beings. For there is no creature, animate or inanimate, which exists without Me. Gitaji (14-4) " sarvayonisu kaunteya, murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yanir, aham bijapradhah pita " All the bodies that come into being from different wombs O son of Kunti (Arjuna), the Mahat Brahma (the great Prakriti) is their womb and I am the seed giving father. Gitaji (9-17) " pita 'ham asyo jagato, mata dhata pitamah vedam pavitram aumkara, rik sama yadur eva ca " I am the Father, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather of the world, the knowable, the purifier, the sacred syllable AUM, and the three Vedas - Rik, Yajus ans Sama. Gitaji (9-18) " gatir bharta prabhu saksi nivasah saranam suhrt prabhavah pralayah sthanam nidhanam bijam avayam " I am the Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Shelter, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Foundation, the Treasure-house and the seed Imperishable. Humble regards, Madan Kaura ---------------------------- Hari Om Hinduism and Gita analyse the creation differently than science and right from the beginning focus on the " cause " and not the " effect " . It is not so in case of science. Science begins the journey from " effect " and attempts to know the " cause " . Therefore, what science is finding out say today, Hindu Scriptures found out millions of years ago. For example- science Found out only in 19/20 th century that Pluto/Neptune are also planets, but Hindu Scriptures are stating from day 1 that there are 9 planets circling the Sun. For a long time science believed earth to be the centre of creation. Gita/Hindu Scriptures never d to that view and called Sun to be the focal point. Hundreds of such examples can be given. Take for example Gita. Lord starts Gita with discrimination between soul and body . Which science can ever begin so? A Bhakti Yogi right from the beginning believes " I am of God " . A Jnana Yogi starts sadhana from " I am Brahma " and never gets down from that level throughout. A Karma Yogi believes that he doesnot have to " do " anything for himself, from outset. All three straight away catch the roots only- and then assess/view/ deal with the world. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo PRIOR POSTING In Geeta 10/8 The Lord says - aham sarvasya prabhavo - I am the origin of all. HE is the root of all and HE is all too.(See Geeta 7/7 Mattah parataram nanyatkinchidasti Dhananjay) The modern science tries to search the secrets of nature 1. by physical means and 2. from outside in. This depth is unfathomable since HE is the deepest secret of all the Creation and cannot be found by physical means. While Hinduism has proved that by searching HIM, the creator, the secrets of nature/science which is HIS creation - are automatically revealed. Jai Ramjiki. Dr. Shobha S. A wonderful statement. I would even go further: " Vedaanta goes from root to leaves, while science jumps from leaf to leaf " . Respects. Naga Narayana !! Naham Karta Harikartha !! Hinduism & Science From the root to the leaves and from leaves to the roots The thought-provoking manner in which Swamiji has put forth a comparitive perspective on how our Vedantic religious world view contrasts with that of the modern scientific world view, using the example of a process of understanding a tree - from the roots to leaves or vice versa is really illuminating. There are ample confusions on this issue even among some very learned and devout people as much among so-called rationalists and eminernt philosophers of science. Generally the basis on which the approach of Hinduism and that of modern science need to be differentiated must follow from a critique of following polar positions: Firstly, the error of absolute identity, which seeks to place our religious and spiritual traditions and philosophical standpoints at par with those of science, as if both are not really different and that they would eventually converge (collapse??) into one another at some point of time. This error manifests in further litany errors of claiming that Hinduism is the most scientific of religions and that from its very inception it has known everything that we otherwise are now trying to know through science. There is a similar attempts to portray some of the modern scientists and physicists like Einstein, as the true " ÿogi " or " rishi " of our times and our own ancient " rishis " or " seers " of yore as their " poor cousins " , crippled by lack of modern scientific methodology and who therfore resorted to esoteric modes of explanation. Secondly, there is an error of absolute contradiction, which seeks to pit both Hinduism and modern science in exclusion and opposition to each other and as fundementally irreconciliable. This results in mutual exclusion, wherein those believing in Hinduism fail to recognise the distinct validity and autonomy of scientific cognition and think that one's own religion can indeed explain every thing. There is a mirror image of the same kind of error among some adherants of science, who think that science can explain everything and that religion must therfore be consigned to museum of history. Religion and science are like two faces of the same coin; they are only different cognitive tools of realisation and of knowledge and the subjects their substantive enquiry are different and distinct. Both are needed to understand the roots and leaves, as much the trunk and the branches of tree. !!! Sri Krishnarpanamasthu !!! V.A.Acharya Dear Sadaks, Hinduism gives knowledge from seed to root, from root to leaves, from leaves to fruits and flowers. Hinduism says about creation that was earlier and destroyed and again creation came. Great Saint Poothanam on whose lap Sri Krishna sat, wrote about 13 worlds (other than our) in Ngyanapana that people exits there. He also sang about human birth rare. How human raise from lower births. Upanashids clearly give about black hole. Sri Krishna took Arjuna by Chariot through black to reach Vaikunt and brought back a Bramin children to life. But science go from evidence that exists and call discovered. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hare Krishna Swamiji has said that `Hinduism goes from root to leaves whereas today's science goes from leaves to root.' What does this mean? Thanks, Varun Paprunia ------------- NEW POSTING ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION NEEDED Hare Krishna Hinduism goes from root to leaves- I am able to understand this statement. Although Shobhaji, Madanji, Vyasji and others have addressed the statement `Science goes from leaves to root', it is still not clear to me. I mean to ask that where has today's science taken this approach. Please explain with an example. Thank You… Varun P. Paprunia NEW POSTING Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Varunji, Thank you for a very good question. As pointed out very eloquently by Naga Narayanaji, that the science jumps from leaf to leaf. Surely, science is not going from leaf to the root. it goes from inference to inference only, it makes us believe only what it can prove. With the limited equipment (senses, mind and intellect), how can God and His massive creation (being so unlimited) can be understood or proved by the limited equipment of human being and the science? Hinduism goes from root to leaves, we start with a firm belief that God pervades the whole universe, he is the root, the leaves and whatever else which remains. There are many verses in Gitaji relating to this topic, !0-8 and 7-7 have been posted in a previous response, few more are: Gita (15-1) " urdhvamulam adhsakham, asvattham prahur avyayam chandamsi yasya parnani, yas tam veda sa vedvit " They speak of an imperishable Asvattha (Banyan) tree* with its root above and branches below; Its leaves are the metres of the Vedas; he who knows this, is the knower of the Vedas. *Asvattha tree is in resemblance of the tree of creation Gitaji (10-39) " yas ca'pi sarvabhutanam, bijam tad aham Arjuna na tad asti vina yat syan, maya bhutam caracaram " Arjuna, I am even that which is the seed of all beings. For there is no creature, animate or inanimate, which exists without Me. Gitaji (14-4) " sarvayonisu kaunteya, murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yanir, aham bijapradhah pita " All the bodies that come into being from different wombs O son of Kunti (Arjuna), the Mahat Brahma (the great Prakriti) is their womb and I am the seed giving father. Gitaji (9-17) " pita 'ham asyo jagato, mata dhata pitamah vedam pavitram aumkara, rik sama yadur eva ca " I am the Father, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather of the world, the knowable, the purifier, the sacred syllable AUM, and the three Vedas - Rik, Yajus ans Sama. Gitaji (9-18) " gatir bharta prabhu saksi nivasah saranam suhrt prabhavah pralayah sthanam nidhanam bijam avayam " I am the Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Shelter, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Foundation, the Treasure-house and the seed Imperishable. Humble regards, Madan Kaura ---------------------------- Hari Om Hinduism and Gita analyse the creation differently than science and right from the beginning focus on the " cause " and not the " effect " . It is not so in case of science. Science begins the journey from " effect " and attempts to know the " cause " . Therefore, what science is finding out say today, Hindu Scriptures found out millions of years ago. For example- science Found out only in 19/20 th century that Pluto/Neptune are also planets, but Hindu Scriptures are stating from day 1 that there are 9 planets circling the Sun. For a long time science believed earth to be the centre of creation. Gita/Hindu Scriptures never d to that view and called Sun to be the focal point. Hundreds of such examples can be given. Take for example Gita. Lord starts Gita with discrimination between soul and body . Which science can ever begin so? A Bhakti Yogi right from the beginning believes " I am of God " . A Jnana Yogi starts sadhana from " I am Brahma " and never gets down from that level throughout. A Karma Yogi believes that he doesnot have to " do " anything for himself, from outset. All three straight away catch the roots only- and then assess/view/ deal with the world. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo PRIOR POSTING In Geeta 10/8 The Lord says - aham sarvasya prabhavo - I am the origin of all. HE is the root of all and HE is all too.(See Geeta 7/7 Mattah parataram nanyatkinchidasti Dhananjay) The modern science tries to search the secrets of nature 1. by physical means and 2. from outside in. This depth is unfathomable since HE is the deepest secret of all the Creation and cannot be found by physical means. While Hinduism has proved that by searching HIM, the creator, the secrets of nature/science which is HIS creation - are automatically revealed. Jai Ramjiki. Dr. Shobha S. A wonderful statement. I would even go further: " Vedaanta goes from root to leaves, while science jumps from leaf to leaf " . Respects. Naga Narayana !! Naham Karta Harikartha !! Hinduism & Science From the root to the leaves and from leaves to the roots The thought-provoking manner in which Swamiji has put forth a comparitive perspective on how our Vedantic religious world view contrasts with that of the modern scientific world view, using the example of a process of understanding a tree - from the roots to leaves or vice versa is really illuminating. There are ample confusions on this issue even among some very learned and devout people as much among so-called rationalists and eminernt philosophers of science. Generally the basis on which the approach of Hinduism and that of modern science need to be differentiated must follow from a critique of following polar positions: Firstly, the error of absolute identity, which seeks to place our religious and spiritual traditions and philosophical standpoints at par with those of science, as if both are not really different and that they would eventually converge (collapse??) into one another at some point of time. This error manifests in further litany errors of claiming that Hinduism is the most scientific of religions and that from its very inception it has known everything that we otherwise are now trying to know through science. There is a similar attempts to portray some of the modern scientists and physicists like Einstein, as the true " ÿogi " or " rishi " of our times and our own ancient " rishis " or " seers " of yore as their " poor cousins " , crippled by lack of modern scientific methodology and who therfore resorted to esoteric modes of explanation. Secondly, there is an error of absolute contradiction, which seeks to pit both Hinduism and modern science in exclusion and opposition to each other and as fundementally irreconciliable. This results in mutual exclusion, wherein those believing in Hinduism fail to recognise the distinct validity and autonomy of scientific cognition and think that one's own religion can indeed explain every thing. There is a mirror image of the same kind of error among some adherants of science, who think that science can explain everything and that religion must therfore be consigned to museum of history. Religion and science are like two faces of the same coin; they are only different cognitive tools of realisation and of knowledge and the subjects their substantive enquiry are different and distinct. Both are needed to understand the roots and leaves, as much the trunk and the branches of tree. !!! Sri Krishnarpanamasthu !!! V.A.Acharya Dear Sadaks, Hinduism gives knowledge from seed to root, from root to leaves, from leaves to fruits and flowers. Hinduism says about creation that was earlier and destroyed and again creation came. Great Saint Poothanam on whose lap Sri Krishna sat, wrote about 13 worlds (other than our) in Ngyanapana that people exits there. He also sang about human birth rare. How human raise from lower births. Upanashids clearly give about black hole. Sri Krishna took Arjuna by Chariot through black to reach Vaikunt and brought back a Bramin children to life. But science go from evidence that exists and call discovered. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Shree Hari Ram Ram ALL SADHAKS, PLEASE CAREFULLY READ VINEET SARVOTTAMJI'S MESSAGE. - Hare Krishna Swamiji has said that `Hinduism goes from root to leaves whereas today's science goes from leaves to root.' What does this mean? Thanks, Varun Paprunia ------------- ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION NEEDED Hare Krishna Hinduism goes from root to leaves- I am able to understand this statement. Although Shobhaji, Madanji, Vyasji and others have addressed the statement `Science goes from leaves to root', it is still not clear to me. I mean to ask that where has today's science taken this approach. Please explain with an example. Thank You… Varun P. Paprunia NEW POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Your question has compelled me to ask where, in what book or what particular discourse did Shri Shraddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj say this, which you are quoting. Please kindly share. Swamiji did not remain nuturing and fostering Hinduism or any particular doctrine, religious philosphy of a particular sect. Swamiji spoke for the welfare and upliftment of all beings of all sects and religious groups. The spiritual truths, the exact explanations and definitions of words, have in entireness and completeness been on Gitaji. He has definitely spoken on Sanatana Dharma (Eternal Truths and Spiritual Laws). The use of the words " Hindutva " or " Hinduism " , whether it has been said in the Gitaji and the extent of it's description, please kindly share? If Hindus believe that Gitaji is it's own wealth and treasure, then it is a grave mistake. Swamiji has at all times, in all his writings and discourses, given the understanding and made it clear that this is for " all of mankind " (Manavmaatra). At present there seems to be an understanding of the comparison of acquired knowledge of the world (vijnaan) and spritual truths (dharma), however that there is any philosophical or religious doctrine that is particularly special and criticism of Science, can lead to nothing other than confusion and doubt. I can say that wherever acquired knowledge from the world (vijnaan)is incapable, from that very point, spiritual truths (not a particular religious doctrine) begins. Kindly share the collective understanding indicating comparisons between acquired knowledge and spiritual knowledge without fail. Thank you very much. Vineet, A Sadhak Vineet Sarvottam IN HINDI Aapke prashna ne baadhya kiyaa hai ki aapse puchaa jai kis Shri Shraddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj kab kahaa (kis pravachan mein, kis lekh mein) yeh kahaa jo aap kah rahe hai. Kripayaa bataayiye? Shraddhey Swamiji hindutattva athvaa anya kisi mat-sampradaayak ke paushak nahin rahe. Sahdev sabhi sampradaayi aur mat ke manusyon ke hit mein likhaa hai. Dharma ki unki paribhaashaa purnatah Gitaji per chali hai. Sanatana Dharma ke baare mein avashya unhaun ne kahaa hai. Hindutva athavaa Hinduism shabda ka Gitaji mein kahaa aur kitnaa varanun hai, kripayaa bataayiye ? Hindu sampradaayi yeh samjhe ki Gitaji unki sampatti hai toh yeh bahut badi bhool hai. Swamiji ne sadaa sabhi pravachan aur lekh " maanav maatre " ko sambodhit kiye hai. vartamaan vignaana aur dharma ki tulnaa toh samajh mein aati hai kintu kisi sampradaayi vishesh aur vijnaan ki tulnaa brahma ke atirikt kuch nahin de sakengi. Waise aapko bataa saktaa hu ki jahaan vijnana asamarth hotaa hai, usi bindu se adhyaatma, (ne ki koyi sampradaayi) praarambh hotaa hai. Kripayaa vijnaan aur adhyaatma kaa tulanaatmak suchnaa-sangraha avashya kare. Sa dhanyavaad. Vineet, ek sadhak Vineet Sarvottam ---------------------------- -Shree Hari- O.K. Varunji, If you are able to get a copy of 'Raja Yoga', by Swami Vivekananda, and go to pages 50 through 52, to summarize he writes of how vibrations set the plane, each plane, invisible to each, and people on that plane see objects etc on that plane only, but with the use of Yoga one can see the big picture. Now in my work I often used the lisague technique, to locate and measure a stream of data amongst hundreds of other streams, how? By simply synchronizing my reference to the frequency of the stream I wanted, sounds very much like the sought of thing the good Swami was talking about. Also remember the modern physicists now consider all of existence is based on energy vibration Swami Vivekananda had already said that, remember the physicists had to travel from the macrocosm to the microcosm as the methods improved, but the Swami was across the lot. Now turn to page 57, he saw the coming of wireless energy transfer, to quote: " This proves that the wire is not really necessary, but only are inability to dispense with it compels us to use it " , he based his accurate predictions on the basis of the most ancients of science, he called the science of Yoga. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Varunji, Thank you for a very good question. As pointed out very eloquently by Naga Narayanaji, that the science jumps from leaf to leaf. Surely, science is not going from leaf to the root. it goes from inference to inference only, it makes us believe only what it can prove. With the limited equipment (senses, mind and intellect), how can God and His massive creation (being so unlimited) can be understood or proved by the limited equipment of human being and the science? Hinduism goes from root to leaves, we start with a firm belief that God pervades the whole universe, he is the root, the leaves and whatever else which remains. There are many verses in Gitaji relating to this topic, !0-8 and 7-7 have been posted in a previous response, few more are: Gita (15-1) " urdhvamulam adhsakham, asvattham prahur avyayam chandamsi yasya parnani, yas tam veda sa vedvit " They speak of an imperishable Asvattha (Banyan) tree* with its root above and branches below; Its leaves are the metres of the Vedas; he who knows this, is the knower of the Vedas. *Asvattha tree is in resemblance of the tree of creation Gitaji (10-39) " yas ca'pi sarvabhutanam, bijam tad aham Arjuna na tad asti vina yat syan, maya bhutam caracaram " Arjuna, I am even that which is the seed of all beings. For there is no creature, animate or inanimate, which exists without Me. Gitaji (14-4) " sarvayonisu kaunteya, murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yanir, aham bijapradhah pita " All the bodies that come into being from different wombs O son of Kunti (Arjuna), the Mahat Brahma (the great Prakriti) is their womb and I am the seed giving father. Gitaji (9-17) " pita 'ham asyo jagato, mata dhata pitamah vedam pavitram aumkara, rik sama yadur eva ca " I am the Father, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather of the world, the knowable, the purifier, the sacred syllable AUM, and the three Vedas - Rik, Yajus ans Sama. Gitaji (9-18) " gatir bharta prabhu saksi nivasah saranam suhrt prabhavah pralayah sthanam nidhanam bijam avayam " I am the Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Shelter, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Foundation, the Treasure-house and the seed Imperishable. Humble regards, Madan Kaura ---------------------------- Hari Om Hinduism and Gita analyse the creation differently than science and right from the beginning focus on the " cause " and not the " effect " . It is not so in case of science. Science begins the journey from " effect " and attempts to know the " cause " . Therefore, what science is finding out say today, Hindu Scriptures found out millions of years ago. For example- science Found out only in 19/20 th century that Pluto/Neptune are also planets, but Hindu Scriptures are stating from day 1 that there are 9 planets circling the Sun. For a long time science believed earth to be the centre of creation. Gita/Hindu Scriptures never d to that view and called Sun to be the focal point. Hundreds of such examples can be given. Take for example Gita. Lord starts Gita with discrimination between soul and body . Which science can ever begin so? A Bhakti Yogi right from the beginning believes " I am of God " . A Jnana Yogi starts sadhana from " I am Brahma " and never gets down from that level throughout. A Karma Yogi believes that he doesnot have to " do " anything for himself, from outset. All three straight away catch the roots only- and then assess/view/ deal with the world. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo PRIOR POSTING In Geeta 10/8 The Lord says - aham sarvasya prabhavo - I am the origin of all. HE is the root of all and HE is all too.(See Geeta 7/7 Mattah parataram nanyatkinchidasti Dhananjay) The modern science tries to search the secrets of nature 1. by physical means and 2. from outside in. This depth is unfathomable since HE is the deepest secret of all the Creation and cannot be found by physical means. While Hinduism has proved that by searching HIM, the creator, the secrets of nature/science which is HIS creation - are automatically revealed. Jai Ramjiki. Dr. Shobha S. A wonderful statement. I would even go further: " Vedaanta goes from root to leaves, while science jumps from leaf to leaf " . Respects. Naga Narayana !! Naham Karta Harikartha !! Hinduism & Science From the root to the leaves and from leaves to the roots The thought-provoking manner in which Swamiji has put forth a comparitive perspective on how our Vedantic religious world view contrasts with that of the modern scientific world view, using the example of a process of understanding a tree - from the roots to leaves or vice versa is really illuminating. There are ample confusions on this issue even among some very learned and devout people as much among so-called rationalists and eminernt philosophers of science. Generally the basis on which the approach of Hinduism and that of modern science need to be differentiated must follow from a critique of following polar positions: Firstly, the error of absolute identity, which seeks to place our religious and spiritual traditions and philosophical standpoints at par with those of science, as if both are not really different and that they would eventually converge (collapse??) into one another at some point of time. This error manifests in further litany errors of claiming that Hinduism is the most scientific of religions and that from its very inception it has known everything that we otherwise are now trying to know through science. There is a similar attempts to portray some of the modern scientists and physicists like Einstein, as the true " ÿogi " or " rishi " of our times and our own ancient " rishis " or " seers " of yore as their " poor cousins " , crippled by lack of modern scientific methodology and who therfore resorted to esoteric modes of explanation. Secondly, there is an error of absolute contradiction, which seeks to pit both Hinduism and modern science in exclusion and opposition to each other and as fundementally irreconciliable. This results in mutual exclusion, wherein those believing in Hinduism fail to recognise the distinct validity and autonomy of scientific cognition and think that one's own religion can indeed explain every thing. There is a mirror image of the same kind of error among some adherants of science, who think that science can explain everything and that religion must therfore be consigned to museum of history. Religion and science are like two faces of the same coin; they are only different cognitive tools of realisation and of knowledge and the subjects their substantive enquiry are different and distinct. Both are needed to understand the roots and leaves, as much the trunk and the branches of tree. !!! Sri Krishnarpanamasthu !!! V.A.Acharya Dear Sadaks, Hinduism gives knowledge from seed to root, from root to leaves, from leaves to fruits and flowers. Hinduism says about creation that was earlier and destroyed and again creation came. Great Saint Poothanam on whose lap Sri Krishna sat, wrote about 13 worlds (other than our) in Ngyanapana that people exits there. He also sang about human birth rare. How human raise from lower births. Upanashids clearly give about black hole. Sri Krishna took Arjuna by Chariot through black to reach Vaikunt and brought back a Bramin children to life. But science go from evidence that exists and call discovered. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Hare Krishna Swamiji has said that `Hinduism goes from root to leaves whereas today's science goes from leaves to root.' What does this mean? Thanks, Varun Paprunia ------------- ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION NEEDED Hare Krishna Hinduism goes from root to leaves- I am able to understand this statement. Although Shobhaji, Madanji, Vyasji and others have addressed the statement `Science goes from leaves to root', it is still not clear to me. I mean to ask that where has today's science taken this approach. Please explain with an example. Thank You… Varun P. Paprunia NEW POSTING Hare Krishna Vineetji, On 27th Aug. 1995, 5.00am, in Jaipur, Swamiji has quoted this statement. In fact Swamiji's quote was 'Hinduism goes from seed (not roots) to leaves'. My statement was incorrect. I have heard this quote in many other discourses and also read it in one of the books, but not able to recollect it. Swamiji has only nurtured and fostered Hinduism. What else has He done? He has spent His entire life in doing so. Each and every word of Swamiji's are from Hindu scriptures. He has himself said so.(SSS- page 37 2nd half - left column; and page 522- first para of the chapter 'Baar Bar ...') The Karan-Sapeksha/Karan-Nirpeksha practice, worldly-divine (laukik-alaukik) practice etc. are all discoveries made by Swamiji from Hindu scriptures (which includes Gita) only. He has only found them which existed before from time immemorial. Yes, Gita does not specifically mention the word 'Hindu' but it certainly does give importance to Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism). (Read chapter 'Gita mein Sanatan Dharma'- page 76 of book 'Gita Darpan'. Concentrate on the last 2 paras of the article.) What is the problem in Hindus believing Gita to be its' own treasure? I don't understand your statement. If we Hindus will not treasure it then who will treasure it? Read SSS page 992- entire chapter. In fact, you should read the entire 'Samaj Sudhar' section of SSS. Today's SECULAR Hindu consider it a shame to read Gita, Ramayan etc. They abhor Hinduism and make fun of its rich historical characters. They don't even consider Mahabharata and Ramayana as a historical event. Deep down they consider Hindu scriptures, puranas, the gods as any poet's imagination, a folk-lore, an impractical doctrination by some foolish people. In such dire circumstances if we will not treasure it then who will treasure it? Vineetji, according to Swamiji- Sanatan Dharma, Hinduism, Hinduttva are synonyms. He has not drawn any demarcation line between any of these terms. If He has drawn any, show me where it is? You said- Swamiji's words are for the welfare of entire humanity. Absolutely, no doubt about it, because Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma, which includes Swamiji's words) spiritual truths, i.e. laws for the smooth functioning of this universe (dharma). As said by Swamiji, other religions are a product of Hinduism. (Read SS page 925). So non-Hindus may equally benefit from Swamiji's words there is no need to be surprised over it. Gita is so broad that even a practicing Christian and Muslim can use it to follow his own religion! This is the speciality of Gita. The biggest astonishment of Swamiji's words is that everyone can relate to it. Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma) is a dharma (eternal laws for the smooth functioning of this Universe) not a sect (sampraday). You can call Vaishnaism, Shaivaism, Advaitaism etc. as sects. I don't think I have wronged anywhere in comparing Hinduism and Science. (Swamiji has Himself done so.) The main purpose of today's scientific inventions are primarily- new ways to derive sensual pleasure, comfort of body, making more and more money etc., which is not the purpose of human body (according to Hinduism). FYI... Family- planning initiatives and abortion are also the product of todays' science only, which Swamiji has condemned for His entire life. Your 2nd last statement 'Waise aapko bataa saktaa hu ki jahaan vijnana asamarth hotaa hai, usi bindu se adhyaatma, (ne ki koyi sampradaayi) praarambh hotaa hai.' Agreed Vineetji, I would like to point out that the main purpose of any religion or sect (sampradaya) is spirituality. Any sect is formed not for fighting, but for walking towards the ultimate goal. Your last statement 'Kripayaa vijnaan aur adhyaatma kaa tulanaatmak suchnaa-sangraha avashya kare.' For doing this I will need to know details of both the subjects. Honestly, I don't know much about both of them. If you have done 'TULANAATMAK SUCHNAA-SANGRAHA' on this then please share the conclusions of that comparison with all of us. And yes, DRILL this down 'Sanatan-Dharma, Hinduism, Hinduttva' are one and the same. For protecting dharma, God takes avatar. (Again read SS page 925) SS -> Sadhak-Sanjivani (Hindi) SSS -> Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu --------------- Thank you for the response Mikeji, I will try to get that book. Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia -------------------------------- Hari Om In my opinion, it is Mike Keenor's beautiful narration which answers satisfactorily the question of Varunji. Swamiji made this observation many times. There is nothing wrong in this observation and there is no purpose served in changing the course of deliberations. It is a good question and we should concentrate on answering the same- rather than giving it a different colour.It is childish to presume or infer any thing about Hinduism or Hindutva out of this innocent question. There is nothing to " carefully read " in the message of Vineetji.. Our religion is a way of life, it is eternal.. No body has denied the fact that the teachings of Gitaji and Swamiji are meant for humanity at large. Mere mention of Hindu Dharma by Varunji while posing a question cannot cause so called " confusion " . But even Swamiji was proud of Hindu Sanatan Dharma . So am I. So is Varunji. So should be all of us. What is wrong in that? By the way the term " vijnana " (science) may not be only what Vineetji has described it to be. Every worldly or acquired knowledge is not " science " . As stated earlier let us concentrate more on the question rather than deviating from main theme If " Vijnana " is what Vineetji has defined then what the " Jnana " is? The entire world knows that Scriptures like Gitaji are for entire humanity. It goes without saying. Who has denied that? It indeed is essence of Upnishads. At the root there is Eternal Sanatan Dharma. It is undeniable. Hence we should concentrate on giving Varunji examples- if we possess adequate knowledge to do that. I am not a science student, but even I could give examples of 9 planets etc. Of course, science begins journey from leaves and aims at reaching to roots. There is " no grave mistake " of any sort whatsoever in any statements. The question in no way can cause that conclusion. All confusions are in individual mind only and no where else. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Science studies and discovers all that are perceived by sense organs and subsequently conceived as objects, which are always separate from the Scientist who is the subject of the objects thus conceived. These objects are empirical in nature(observable and agreed upon by majority) and are true only relative to one another, not in and of themselves. Objects are leaves, branches, trunks and the Subject is the Root, so to speak. So science remains at the level of leaves etc. Science cannot and doesn't have access to that which is the ultimate and true subject of all such conceived objects. In otherwords, the ultimate subject, Consciousness is not available as laboratory sample to be studied. This is the Root and as we know the root has the access to leaves etc whereas leaves etc don't have access to the Root. Krishnaji say in Gita: " I " am Kshetragna, the Knower Consciousness of all objects, and everything else is Kshetra, field of known including body-mind-intellect etc and as such cannot know " I " . This means Consciousness cannot be objectified as another object. When Root is known, all else(leaves, etc) is known, as it is total knowledge and liberation! This is how/why Vedanta goes from Root to leaves so to speak unlike science, as Swamiji may have meant to say. Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Your question has compelled me to ask where, in what book or what particular discourse did Shri Shraddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj say this, which you are quoting. Please kindly share. Swamiji did not remain nuturing and fostering Hinduism or any particular doctrine, religious philosphy of a particular sect. Swamiji spoke for the welfare and upliftment of all beings of all sects and religious groups. The spiritual truths, the exact explanations and definitions of words, have in entireness and completeness been on Gitaji. He has definitely spoken on Sanatana Dharma (Eternal Truths and Spiritual Laws). The use of the words " Hindutva " or " Hinduism " , whether it has been said in the Gitaji and the extent of it's description, please kindly share? If Hindus believe that Gitaji is it's own wealth and treasure, then it is a grave mistake. Swamiji has at all times, in all his writings and discourses, given the understanding and made it clear that this is for " all of mankind " (Manavmaatra). At present there seems to be an understanding of the comparison of acquired knowledge of the world (vijnaan) and spritual truths (dharma), however that there is any philosophical or religious doctrine that is particularly special and criticism of Science, can lead to nothing other than confusion and doubt. I can say that wherever acquired knowledge from the world (vijnaan)is incapable, from that very point, spiritual truths (not a particular religious doctrine) begins. Kindly share the collective understanding indicating comparisons between acquired knowledge and spiritual knowledge without fail. Thank you very much. Vineet, A Sadhak Vineet Sarvottam IN HINDI Aapke prashna ne baadhya kiyaa hai ki aapse puchaa jai kis Shri Shraddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj kab kahaa (kis pravachan mein, kis lekh mein) yeh kahaa jo aap kah rahe hai. Kripayaa bataayiye? Shraddhey Swamiji hindutattva athvaa anya kisi mat-sampradaayak ke paushak nahin rahe. Sahdev sabhi sampradaayi aur mat ke manusyon ke hit mein likhaa hai. Dharma ki unki paribhaashaa purnatah Gitaji per chali hai. Sanatana Dharma ke baare mein avashya unhaun ne kahaa hai. Hindutva athavaa Hinduism shabda ka Gitaji mein kahaa aur kitnaa varanun hai, kripayaa bataayiye ? Hindu sampradaayi yeh samjhe ki Gitaji unki sampatti hai toh yeh bahut badi bhool hai. Swamiji ne sadaa sabhi pravachan aur lekh " maanav maatre " ko sambodhit kiye hai. vartamaan vignaana aur dharma ki tulnaa toh samajh mein aati hai kintu kisi sampradaayi vishesh aur vijnaan ki tulnaa brahma ke atirikt kuch nahin de sakengi. Waise aapko bataa saktaa hu ki jahaan vijnana asamarth hotaa hai, usi bindu se adhyaatma, (ne ki koyi sampradaayi) praarambh hotaa hai. Kripayaa vijnaan aur adhyaatma kaa tulanaatmak suchnaa-sangraha avashya kare. Sa dhanyavaad. Vineet, ek sadhak Vineet Sarvottam ---------------------------- -Shree Hari- O.K. Varunji, If you are able to get a copy of 'Raja Yoga', by Swami Vivekananda, and go to pages 50 through 52, to summarize he writes of how vibrations set the plane, each plane, invisible to each, and people on that plane see objects etc on that plane only, but with the use of Yoga one can see the big picture. Now in my work I often used the lisague technique, to locate and measure a stream of data amongst hundreds of other streams, how? By simply synchronizing my reference to the frequency of the stream I wanted, sounds very much like the sought of thing the good Swami was talking about. Also remember the modern physicists now consider all of existence is based on energy vibration Swami Vivekananda had already said that, remember the physicists had to travel from the macrocosm to the microcosm as the methods improved, but the Swami was across the lot. Now turn to page 57, he saw the coming of wireless energy transfer, to quote: " This proves that the wire is not really necessary, but only are inability to dispense with it compels us to use it " , he based his accurate predictions on the basis of the most ancients of science, he called the science of Yoga. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Varunji, Thank you for a very good question. As pointed out very eloquently by Naga Narayanaji, that the science jumps from leaf to leaf. Surely, science is not going from leaf to the root. it goes from inference to inference only, it makes us believe only what it can prove. With the limited equipment (senses, mind and intellect), how can God and His massive creation (being so unlimited) can be understood or proved by the limited equipment of human being and the science? Hinduism goes from root to leaves, we start with a firm belief that God pervades the whole universe, he is the root, the leaves and whatever else which remains. There are many verses in Gitaji relating to this topic, !0-8 and 7-7 have been posted in a previous response, few more are: Gita (15-1) " urdhvamulam adhsakham, asvattham prahur avyayam chandamsi yasya parnani, yas tam veda sa vedvit " They speak of an imperishable Asvattha (Banyan) tree* with its root above and branches below; Its leaves are the metres of the Vedas; he who knows this, is the knower of the Vedas. *Asvattha tree is in resemblance of the tree of creation Gitaji (10-39) " yas ca'pi sarvabhutanam, bijam tad aham Arjuna na tad asti vina yat syan, maya bhutam caracaram " Arjuna, I am even that which is the seed of all beings. For there is no creature, animate or inanimate, which exists without Me. Gitaji (14-4) " sarvayonisu kaunteya, murtayah sambhavanti yah tasam brahma mahad yanir, aham bijapradhah pita " All the bodies that come into being from different wombs O son of Kunti (Arjuna), the Mahat Brahma (the great Prakriti) is their womb and I am the seed giving father. Gitaji (9-17) " pita 'ham asyo jagato, mata dhata pitamah vedam pavitram aumkara, rik sama yadur eva ca " I am the Father, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather of the world, the knowable, the purifier, the sacred syllable AUM, and the three Vedas - Rik, Yajus ans Sama. Gitaji (9-18) " gatir bharta prabhu saksi nivasah saranam suhrt prabhavah pralayah sthanam nidhanam bijam avayam " I am the Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Shelter, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Foundation, the Treasure-house and the seed Imperishable. Humble regards, Madan Kaura ---------------------------- Hari Om Hinduism and Gita analyse the creation differently than science and right from the beginning focus on the " cause " and not the " effect " . It is not so in case of science. Science begins the journey from " effect " and attempts to know the " cause " . Therefore, what science is finding out say today, Hindu Scriptures found out millions of years ago. For example- science Found out only in 19/20 th century that Pluto/Neptune are also planets, but Hindu Scriptures are stating from day 1 that there are 9 planets circling the Sun. For a long time science believed earth to be the centre of creation. Gita/Hindu Scriptures never d to that view and called Sun to be the focal point. Hundreds of such examples can be given. Take for example Gita. Lord starts Gita with discrimination between soul and body . Which science can ever begin so? A Bhakti Yogi right from the beginning believes " I am of God " . A Jnana Yogi starts sadhana from " I am Brahma " and never gets down from that level throughout. A Karma Yogi believes that he doesnot have to " do " anything for himself, from outset. All three straight away catch the roots only- and then assess/view/ deal with the world. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B Science demands proof of everything and tries to explain everything but there are certain things that cannot be explained. Such as which came first, the chicken or the egg? How does an inanimate object like the egg turn into a live chick? Similarly there are so many things that science cannot explain. That is what Swamiji meant when he said that science goes from the leaves to the root, which is unnatural while Hinduism goes naturally from the root to the leaves. Which means that Hinduism is more logical than science. Hari Shanker Deo PRIOR POSTING In Geeta 10/8 The Lord says - aham sarvasya prabhavo - I am the origin of all. HE is the root of all and HE is all too.(See Geeta 7/7 Mattah parataram nanyatkinchidasti Dhananjay) The modern science tries to search the secrets of nature 1. by physical means and 2. from outside in. This depth is unfathomable since HE is the deepest secret of all the Creation and cannot be found by physical means. While Hinduism has proved that by searching HIM, the creator, the secrets of nature/science which is HIS creation - are automatically revealed. Jai Ramjiki. Dr. Shobha S. A wonderful statement. I would even go further: " Vedaanta goes from root to leaves, while science jumps from leaf to leaf " . Respects. Naga Narayana !! Naham Karta Harikartha !! Hinduism & Science From the root to the leaves and from leaves to the roots The thought-provoking manner in which Swamiji has put forth a comparitive perspective on how our Vedantic religious world view contrasts with that of the modern scientific world view, using the example of a process of understanding a tree - from the roots to leaves or vice versa is really illuminating. There are ample confusions on this issue even among some very learned and devout people as much among so-called rationalists and eminernt philosophers of science. Generally the basis on which the approach of Hinduism and that of modern science need to be differentiated must follow from a critique of following polar positions: Firstly, the error of absolute identity, which seeks to place our religious and spiritual traditions and philosophical standpoints at par with those of science, as if both are not really different and that they would eventually converge (collapse??) into one another at some point of time. This error manifests in further litany errors of claiming that Hinduism is the most scientific of religions and that from its very inception it has known everything that we otherwise are now trying to know through science. There is a similar attempts to portray some of the modern scientists and physicists like Einstein, as the true " ÿogi " or " rishi " of our times and our own ancient " rishis " or " seers " of yore as their " poor cousins " , crippled by lack of modern scientific methodology and who therfore resorted to esoteric modes of explanation. Secondly, there is an error of absolute contradiction, which seeks to pit both Hinduism and modern science in exclusion and opposition to each other and as fundementally irreconciliable. This results in mutual exclusion, wherein those believing in Hinduism fail to recognise the distinct validity and autonomy of scientific cognition and think that one's own religion can indeed explain every thing. There is a mirror image of the same kind of error among some adherants of science, who think that science can explain everything and that religion must therfore be consigned to museum of history. Religion and science are like two faces of the same coin; they are only different cognitive tools of realisation and of knowledge and the subjects their substantive enquiry are different and distinct. Both are needed to understand the roots and leaves, as much the trunk and the branches of tree. !!! Sri Krishnarpanamasthu !!! V.A.Acharya Dear Sadaks, Hinduism gives knowledge from seed to root, from root to leaves, from leaves to fruits and flowers. Hinduism says about creation that was earlier and destroyed and again creation came. Great Saint Poothanam on whose lap Sri Krishna sat, wrote about 13 worlds (other than our) in Ngyanapana that people exits there. He also sang about human birth rare. How human raise from lower births. Upanashids clearly give about black hole. Sri Krishna took Arjuna by Chariot through black to reach Vaikunt and brought back a Bramin children to life. But science go from evidence that exists and call discovered. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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