An Unfavorable Situation - Is it bad karmas? Act of God? Other?

[Guest guest]

When one is harassed, terrorized and victimized - be it at physical

or mental levels, and one is forced to step out of a marriage...

which otherwise, the person did not or could not take action before,

do you take it as act of God or your own action.

 

When after being thrown out of house in the middle of the night and

each time this person goes on forgiving and again and again receives

same treatment, and ultimately, after 2 years of separation, the

husband calls her back because he is 64 years and cannot cook. He

is provided with money, house and car ...wife refuses to go back not

out of vengence or hatred but out of self preservation, self esteem

and self worth which was shatered. Husband decides to annul the

marriage since the wife does not go back. Can be taken as plan of

God or the person decides not to become a victim anymore. Husband

has mental problems, but always refused to cure himself. Lives in

the past, highly emotional, obsessed, does not give freedom, had

thrown his two sons out of the house when they had just graduated.

Now he is ready to take treatment but wants the wife home.

The wife is scared and has decided to live separately but pays for

his upkeep. Does she suffer bad karmas?

 

Kunti D'Souza

 

------------------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

 

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[Guest guest]

When one is harassed, terrorized and victimized - be it at physical

or mental levels, and one is forced to step out of a marriage...

which otherwise, the person did not or could not take action before,

do you take it as act of God or your own action.

 

When after being thrown out of house in the middle of the night and

each time this person goes on forgiving and again and again receives

same treatment, and ultimately, after 2 years of separation, the

husband calls her back because he is 64 years and cannot cook. He

is provided with money, house and car ...wife refuses to go back not

out of vengence or hatred but out of self preservation, self esteem

and self worth which was shatered. Husband decides to annul the

marriage since the wife does not go back. Can be taken as plan of

God or the person decides not to become a victim anymore. Husband

has mental problems, but always refused to cure himself. Lives in

the past, highly emotional, obsessed, does not give freedom, had

thrown his two sons out of the house when they had just graduated.

Now he is ready to take treatment but wants the wife home.

The wife is scared and has decided to live separately but pays for

his upkeep. Does she suffer bad karmas?

 

Kunti D'Souza

 

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sister, whatever unwanted, unfavorable situations that come to us in

this life, it is the fruit of our karmas alone, whether it be from

this life or previous lives. Similarly whatever favorable situations

that come in our life without desiring them, those too are only the

fruits of our past karmas (whether they be from this life or

previous lives). It is not that we are getting the fruits of

someone else's karmas (actions). It does not happen that we can get

the fruits of someone else's actions. Ishvar (God) is not a human

being, therefore deliberating on whether He has done or not, is not

possible. That which IS, That which happens, and That which has

already happened, That itself is Ishvar (God). Remember this -

" That which is not supposed to happen, does not happen. That which

is to happen, happens. " And in this to be contented and satisfied,

is what is meant by rising above happiness and unhappiness.

 

Vineet Sarvottam

 

------------------------------

Dear sadak Kunti D,Sozsa,

It is bounded duty of husband to care of his wife under any

circumstances. Sri Rama is the best example. Knowing Mother seetha

is carried away by Ravana, HE still went all the way to Lanka. Sri

Rama took months to reach sri Lanka. The determination to rescue

mother Seetha never reduced a bit. There were circumstances where

Sri Rama could have doubted Seetha. But Never did so even in mind.

So if one ill treats his wife for some reason or other, may be even

mentally retarded, the wife` s bondage is broken.

 

Take in case of Saint Meera. She was thrown out by her husband and

even poisioned. But Sri Krishna took care in all moments. Is it due

to bad Karma or not, it is not your look out.

 

Surrender to GOD (Which ever religion may be), your karmas washes

away, besides your remaining time becomes most useful. If a husband

throws his wife more than 3 times, then the wife has right to stay

away from her husband, sastra says.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-

 

This is a sad situation that is all too common these days. People

spend beyond their means during marriage and live to repent ever

after. Especaily for the woman the situation becomes really bad. In

this condition she should be guided by her own conscience and do

what she thinks is right. If she does that then she won't suffer

bad karmas.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

An unfavourable situation arises due to all combinations

 

1) Bad Karma

2) Not Attending to Problem in this life itself problem snow balls

 

A Bad karma brings a bad situation but due to our this life's good

karmas we should be able to over come it.

 

if we have acted according to prev bad karmas and made this life

karmas more then nobody can save the situation.

 

Bad Karmas should be phased out slowly thru perservance, good karmas

in this life and surrendering problem to Lord Himself.

 

Karma is like skin on us, more u rub more pain. it should smoothly

phased out no other way. Karma stops when u do a job related to it

and leave the result to GOD.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

Shiva Kumar Shapur

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

 

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

------------------------

[Guest guest]

When one is harassed, terrorized and victimized - be it at physical

or mental levels, and one is forced to step out of a marriage...

which otherwise, the person did not or could not take action before,

do you take it as act of God or your own action.

 

When after being thrown out of house in the middle of the night and

each time this person goes on forgiving and again and again receives

same treatment, and ultimately, after 2 years of separation, the

husband calls her back because he is 64 years and cannot cook. He

is provided with money, house and car ...wife refuses to go back not

out of vengence or hatred but out of self preservation, self esteem

and self worth which was shatered. Husband decides to annul the

marriage since the wife does not go back. Can be taken as plan of

God or the person decides not to become a victim anymore. Husband

has mental problems, but always refused to cure himself. Lives in

the past, highly emotional, obsessed, does not give freedom, had

thrown his two sons out of the house when they had just graduated.

Now he is ready to take treatment but wants the wife home.

The wife is scared and has decided to live separately but pays for

his upkeep. Does she suffer bad karmas?

 

Kunti D'Souza

 

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhika,

 

1. An unfavorable situation could be called result of past bad karma

but to be happy/unhappy or indifferent in that situation is entirely

upon us. As swamiji says the best utilization of favorable situation

is to serve the world, and the best utilization of unfavorable

situation is to go inside and realize our own Self..

2.Usually to fulfill our worldly duties which we call mother's

dharma, or a wife's dharma we forget our true dharma. Our true

dharma is- to realize our own Self, to realize who am I ? The sole

purpose of human birth is to realize God.

3.Due to worldly attachments we forget that we are just PLAYING

roles of a mother/father/wife/husband,actually we are not

mother/father/husband/ or wife of anyone, we need to detach our own

Self from those roles. It is good to perform these duties without

attachment but it is best to practice our true dharma which is to

KNOW GOD/SELF/BRAHMAN.

4.Whenever you have conflict in deciding what dharma to follow,

follow Krishna's guidance, read and contemplate on Gita, the answer

will come to you.

Krishna says- " Sarva dharma paritjya mamek sharanam vrij... " Leave all

dharma aside and completely surrender to Me only....

So leave all yr inner conflict aside and surrender completely to

Krishna only.

5. On this worldly stage, give yr husband another chance or not, is

entirely up to you. Baiya sathyanarayan has explained already that

you are free of this husband-wife bondage, as per our shashtras.

6.Lead life of a Sadhak(a true seeker). Read last 8 stanza of Gita

chapter2. These stanza shows all the characteristics of a true

seekers.A true seeker is always established in God and remain

indifferent in all worldly situations.

I understand the stress and conflict you are going through, but you

are not the role you have been playing, you are part of Brahman/God

who is Satchitanand (Bliss only).Know Thyself...

I am sure you will find Peace, Bliss and Love within.

With lots of Love,

a Sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

In such situations, I would echo what Sathyanarayanji has said.

Karmas don't mean to make one suffer, they are just the signal to

think and act to correct the situations.

Besides karmas are never personal, they are collective/mass karmas

affecting in an impersonal ways.

If by the grace of God and teachings such as Gita or other

scriptures, and/or wise friend(s), one comes upon the understanding

that one is not a person, an independent doer of his/her deeds, how

can karmas be personal? What I mean is when person itself is an

illusory, his/her karmas have to so! Person is role God is playing

as " you " .

If this is not understood clearly, then only seemingly bad/evil

actions stem from that " person " in the name of protecting one

false " me " who is in conflict with another " me " .

In all situations, always, God-Impersonal Being, Totality, takes

into considerations interests of all parties involved, meaning

husband, wife, children, other realtives, friends, society etc and

thus the result of such disputes are resolved regardless of personal

interest of one.

What one needs to do is to see this point clearly, and then pray

deeply by asking the help of those who can help, ask Impersonal/God

to help. Then actions will follow from your mind-body as instrument

or channel paving the way for God to act which will be beneficial to

all.

Again God acts only through people for people, by giving them

intelligence to act provided a person lives righteously all his/her

life. If done sincerely then spouses can stay separate in dire

desparate situations, still wishing good for one another. No one

needs to stay fatalistically in an abusive relationship forever

thinking its " my Karmas " . Karmas are body of collective ignorance of

all mankind, not mine or yours! Our problem is we believe they

are " mine " or " yours " .

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

The wife in question is confronted with a dilemma regarding

her " duty " . Here is a husband who has been say " schizhophrenic " and

mentally ailing for a long long time. Cruelty, harrassment, throwing

kids out of house, arrogance etc have been quite natural for him,

therefore. Treatment is a must for him.

 

All along wife is kind enough to provide him with financial support

also. The raising of very this question suggests she is

still " attached " by " mineness " with her husband. Understandable.

 

Fact as appears to me is that now the problem is with husband

because it is now his turn to face the music, to reap the results

of his karmas. He is 64 and needs wife badly as he can see that

nothing can replace a wife in the old age. That is law of karma. So

far this life good wife reaped results of her own past deeds and now

this life bad husband is in clutches of the Law of Karma. Husband

sees no point in getting treated because the main requirement for

him is of wife. He thinks that if wife is there to lift coolly his

tantrums he can lord over as in the past. Logical.

Understandable.

 

What the wife should do? This is the question. My view is that she

should introspect again if she has soft corner still for him. If

there is no soft corner left, then she can take tough stand

because " service has destroyed mineness /attachment already " . If

yes, then she should continue financial support to him, and she

should insist for his medical treatment first. She should weigh the

situation with 2 yardsticks. CAN I do? SHOULD I do ? If she cannot-

it is not her " duty " . If she should not- it is not her " duty " .

On " should " front she should rely on her " conscience " , holy

scriptures, advice of elders and logic.(Shruti/Yukti/Anubhuti).

 

Are two sons taking care of Mom? If questioner can reply to this, it

will have impact on answer. This answer presumes - Yes !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

 

Divine atmans

unfavorable situation for a sadhak is the real test

of patience for example in examination paper a student has to

prepare for his exams as per the syllabus similarly if a sadhak is

really in the field of sadhana then his tolerance and his complete

surrender in the feet of lord is seen only in these unfavrable

situation.Lord Krishna said in Shreemad Bhagwat Gita " In all the good

and bad situation if a person keeps on chanting my name and keeps on

thinking of me then that atman is subject to mukti by me " :So my dear

sadhak if u r a real lover of lord then see the optimistic approach

behind every unfavorable situation.God never does any thing bad for

his child because he is the real promiser and the real one who can

be trusted because he is the who is with in all of us in the form of

ansh that is atman we are part of him .

So dear plz make ur eyes and views optimistic because in sadhna

optimism play a vital role for god realisation.

Jai Shri Krishna

Raksh Mehra

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Wife in question can afford not to go back and tolerate any more.

Since he is " husband " given to her by God, she may ensure that he is

put in a mental hospital. A week's treatment there will put his

ailing mind under control. The conduct of husband suggests that he

is acute schizhophrenic. This disease can be brought under control.

He will become like a goat after treatment. All this roarings,

arrogance etc will vanish with medication. She should wish that the

soul that is at present sufferring illusions, hallucinations, and

unrest, can find some peace. A proper medical treatment will solve

the problem.

 

Real problem is faced in getting him to hospital. There are methods

however available with Doctors for such souls also. HE MUST BE IN A

HOSPITAL FIRST.

 

She should not consider this man as husband. She should consider him

to be of God and not of her. Thereupon, she should do her duty. What

she can do and what she should do ! She is free now. Bondage is on

the other side. Still she can continue serving- if she can and if

she should. Let her " conscience " decide that.

 

She should not be over curious in the question regarding her or his

karma. One reaps the results of his karma only.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sister, whatever unwanted, unfavorable situations that come to us in

this life, it is the fruit of our karmas alone, whether it be from

this life or previous lives. Similarly whatever favorable situations

that come in our life without desiring them, those too are only the

fruits of our past karmas (whether they be from this life or

previous lives). It is not that we are getting the fruits of

someone else's karmas (actions). It does not happen that we can get

the fruits of someone else's actions. Ishvar (God) is not a human

being, therefore deliberating on whether He has done or not, is not

possible. That which IS, That which happens, and That which has

already happened, That itself is Ishvar (God). Remember this -

" That which is not supposed to happen, does not happen. That which

is to happen, happens. " And in this to be contented and satisfied,

is what is meant by rising above happiness and unhappiness.

 

Vineet Sarvottam

 

------------------------------

Dear sadak Kunti D,Sozsa,

It is bounded duty of husband to care of his wife under any

circumstances. Sri Rama is the best example. Knowing Mother seetha

is carried away by Ravana, HE still went all the way to Lanka. Sri

Rama took months to reach sri Lanka. The determination to rescue

mother Seetha never reduced a bit. There were circumstances where

Sri Rama could have doubted Seetha. But Never did so even in mind.

So if one ill treats his wife for some reason or other, may be even

mentally retarded, the wife` s bondage is broken.

 

Take in case of Saint Meera. She was thrown out by her husband and

even poisioned. But Sri Krishna took care in all moments. Is it due

to bad Karma or not, it is not your look out.

 

Surrender to GOD (Which ever religion may be), your karmas washes

away, besides your remaining time becomes most useful. If a husband

throws his wife more than 3 times, then the wife has right to stay

away from her husband, sastra says.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-

 

This is a sad situation that is all too common these days. People

spend beyond their means during marriage and live to repent ever

after. Especaily for the woman the situation becomes really bad. In

this condition she should be guided by her own conscience and do

what she thinks is right. If she does that then she won't suffer

bad karmas.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

An unfavourable situation arises due to all combinations

 

1) Bad Karma

2) Not Attending to Problem in this life itself problem snow balls

 

A Bad karma brings a bad situation but due to our this life's good

karmas we should be able to over come it.

 

if we have acted according to prev bad karmas and made this life

karmas more then nobody can save the situation.

 

Bad Karmas should be phased out slowly thru perservance, good karmas

in this life and surrendering problem to Lord Himself.

 

Karma is like skin on us, more u rub more pain. it should smoothly

phased out no other way. Karma stops when u do a job related to it

and leave the result to GOD.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

Shiva Kumar Shapur

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

 

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

------------------------

[Guest guest]

When one is harassed, terrorized and victimized - be it at physical

or mental levels, and one is forced to step out of a marriage...

which otherwise, the person did not or could not take action before,

do you take it as act of God or your own action.

 

When after being thrown out of house in the middle of the night and

each time this person goes on forgiving and again and again receives

same treatment, and ultimately, after 2 years of separation, the

husband calls her back because he is 64 years and cannot cook. He

is provided with money, house and car ...wife refuses to go back not

out of vengence or hatred but out of self preservation, self esteem

and self worth which was shatered. Husband decides to annul the

marriage since the wife does not go back. Can be taken as plan of

God or the person decides not to become a victim anymore. Husband

has mental problems, but always refused to cure himself. Lives in

the past, highly emotional, obsessed, does not give freedom, had

thrown his two sons out of the house when they had just graduated.

Now he is ready to take treatment but wants the wife home.

The wife is scared and has decided to live separately but pays for

his upkeep. Does she suffer bad karmas?

 

Kunti D'Souza

 

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Aadarneeyaa Sadhna Karigar jee,

 

Shri Bhagavaan has certainly said `Sarva dharmaan parityajya, maam

ekam sharanam vraja'. But he has also taught: Tasmaat shaastram

pramaanam te kaarya akaarya vyvasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra vidhaan-

oktam karma kartum-ih-arhasi// Gita 16:24

 

In the former `sarva dharmaan parityajya' does not stands for

renouncing one's Dharmas, but the fruit of Dharmas, because, as per

the teachings of Shri Bhagavan, the former are not to be abandoned

at any cost: niyatasya tu parityaagah karmano nop-padyate.(Gita 18:7)

 

Dr. Ranjeet Singh

------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

God Bless you,

 

Already you have received good spiritual advice, and some very

practical advice.

So I will give some experiential comment.

Right now a person who treated me in an unspeakable manner over

decades is very likely going to die in the next few hours.

I myself had learned to distance myself, and yet lend help silently

and gently. Over the years from being a person who she hated the

most, I became the person who could do no wrong in her eyes, (I

hasten to add not in mine), she often said, " There had to be a

reason, why you came here to live " , she was referring to my wife and

myself, (we moved to the same city. What a change!)

 

I hope the sons give support to the wife, it makes the task of giving

support to the husband so much easier.

My very humble opinion is, the wife should become detached, but with

compassion, that seems to be the case. (She is not a cook or a

coolie, she is a shining star.)

 

There is enormous karma being worked out, that is my experience.

Swamiji indicated that unfavorable circumstances can be a blessing, I

bow to him.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

what i do when in conflict with husband who is irrational and does

not realize wife's positive initiatives and ever criticizing I

always pray to god to give him peace of mind. I pray him not to let

me take wrong decision/wrong actions, I pray to him to give a way

out that is satisfactory to both of us and believe me god always

responds . some solution does come up that is satisfactory to both.

 

I know it is very difficult to put-up with such a husband who is

difficult to live with and difficult to live without. Please

whatever decision you take just keep the god in your heart, pray to

him and the decision will definitely be right.

 

It is true that whatever unfavorable situations we go thru is the

result of our past karmas but still we have to act, we have to do

our duty to the best of our capability and leave the result to Him.

 

vandana

 

-------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna,

 

According to Gita (what I understood), Arjuna wanted to pity on

Kauravas.

But Krishna denied. He wanted them to be punished for their bad

deeds.

So in this case, the women is self dependent, since she is paying

for the upkeep of her husband.

There is no need to go back. This will only help him by fulfilling

his ego.

I don't think Gita supports these type of people in any way. They

should suffer.

 

Ashok Goenka

 

 

 

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

 

1. An unfavorable situation could be called result of past bad karma

but to be happy/unhappy or indifferent in that situation is entirely

upon us. As swamiji says the best utilization of favorable situation

is to serve the world, and the best utilization of unfavorable

situation is to go inside and realize our own Self..

2.Usually to fulfill our worldly duties which we call mother's

dharma, or a wife's dharma we forget our true dharma. Our true

dharma is- to realize our own Self, to realize who am I ? The sole

purpose of human birth is to realize God.

3.Due to worldly attachments we forget that we are just PLAYING

roles of a mother/father/wife/husband,actually we are not

mother/father/husband/ or wife of anyone, we need to detach our own

Self from those roles. It is good to perform these duties without

attachment but it is best to practice our true dharma which is to

KNOW GOD/SELF/BRAHMAN.

4.Whenever you have conflict in deciding what dharma to follow,

follow Krishna's guidance, read and contemplate on Gita, the answer

will come to you.

Krishna says- " Sarva dharma paritjya mamek sharanam vrij... " Leave all

dharma aside and completely surrender to Me only....

So leave all yr inner conflict aside and surrender completely to

Krishna only.

5. On this worldly stage, give yr husband another chance or not, is

entirely up to you. Baiya sathyanarayan has explained already that

you are free of this husband-wife bondage, as per our shashtras.

6.Lead life of a Sadhak(a true seeker). Read last 8 stanza of Gita

chapter2. These stanza shows all the characteristics of a true

seekers.A true seeker is always established in God and remain

indifferent in all worldly situations.

I understand the stress and conflict you are going through, but you

are not the role you have been playing, you are part of Brahman/God

who is Satchitanand (Bliss only).Know Thyself...

I am sure you will find Peace, Bliss and Love within.

With lots of Love,

a Sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

In such situations, I would echo what Sathyanarayanji has said.

Karmas don't mean to make one suffer, they are just the signal to

think and act to correct the situations.

Besides karmas are never personal, they are collective/mass karmas

affecting in an impersonal ways.

If by the grace of God and teachings such as Gita or other

scriptures, and/or wise friend(s), one comes upon the understanding

that one is not a person, an independent doer of his/her deeds, how

can karmas be personal? What I mean is when person itself is an

illusory, his/her karmas have to so! Person is role God is playing

as " you " .

If this is not understood clearly, then only seemingly bad/evil

actions stem from that " person " in the name of protecting one

false " me " who is in conflict with another " me " .

In all situations, always, God-Impersonal Being, Totality, takes

into considerations interests of all parties involved, meaning

husband, wife, children, other realtives, friends, society etc and

thus the result of such disputes are resolved regardless of personal

interest of one.

What one needs to do is to see this point clearly, and then pray

deeply by asking the help of those who can help, ask Impersonal/God

to help. Then actions will follow from your mind-body as instrument

or channel paving the way for God to act which will be beneficial to

all.

Again God acts only through people for people, by giving them

intelligence to act provided a person lives righteously all his/her

life. If done sincerely then spouses can stay separate in dire

desparate situations, still wishing good for one another. No one

needs to stay fatalistically in an abusive relationship forever

thinking its " my Karmas " . Karmas are body of collective ignorance of

all mankind, not mine or yours! Our problem is we believe they

are " mine " or " yours " .

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

The wife in question is confronted with a dilemma regarding

her " duty " . Here is a husband who has been say " schizhophrenic " and

mentally ailing for a long long time. Cruelty, harrassment, throwing

kids out of house, arrogance etc have been quite natural for him,

therefore. Treatment is a must for him.

 

All along wife is kind enough to provide him with financial support

also. The raising of very this question suggests she is

still " attached " by " mineness " with her husband. Understandable.

 

Fact as appears to me is that now the problem is with husband

because it is now his turn to face the music, to reap the results

of his karmas. He is 64 and needs wife badly as he can see that

nothing can replace a wife in the old age. That is law of karma. So

far this life good wife reaped results of her own past deeds and now

this life bad husband is in clutches of the Law of Karma. Husband

sees no point in getting treated because the main requirement for

him is of wife. He thinks that if wife is there to lift coolly his

tantrums he can lord over as in the past. Logical.

Understandable.

 

What the wife should do? This is the question. My view is that she

should introspect again if she has soft corner still for him. If

there is no soft corner left, then she can take tough stand

because " service has destroyed mineness /attachment already " . If

yes, then she should continue financial support to him, and she

should insist for his medical treatment first. She should weigh the

situation with 2 yardsticks. CAN I do? SHOULD I do ? If she cannot-

it is not her " duty " . If she should not- it is not her " duty " .

On " should " front she should rely on her " conscience " , holy

scriptures, advice of elders and logic.(Shruti/Yukti/Anubhuti).

 

Are two sons taking care of Mom? If questioner can reply to this, it

will have impact on answer. This answer presumes - Yes !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

 

Divine atmans

unfavorable situation for a sadhak is the real test

of patience for example in examination paper a student has to

prepare for his exams as per the syllabus similarly if a sadhak is

really in the field of sadhana then his tolerance and his complete

surrender in the feet of lord is seen only in these unfavrable

situation.Lord Krishna said in Shreemad Bhagwat Gita " In all the good

and bad situation if a person keeps on chanting my name and keeps on

thinking of me then that atman is subject to mukti by me " :So my dear

sadhak if u r a real lover of lord then see the optimistic approach

behind every unfavorable situation.God never does any thing bad for

his child because he is the real promiser and the real one who can

be trusted because he is the who is with in all of us in the form of

ansh that is atman we are part of him .

So dear plz make ur eyes and views optimistic because in sadhna

optimism play a vital role for god realisation.

Jai Shri Krishna

Raksh Mehra

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Wife in question can afford not to go back and tolerate any more.

Since he is " husband " given to her by God, she may ensure that he is

put in a mental hospital. A week's treatment there will put his

ailing mind under control. The conduct of husband suggests that he

is acute schizhophrenic. This disease can be brought under control.

He will become like a goat after treatment. All this roarings,

arrogance etc will vanish with medication. She should wish that the

soul that is at present sufferring illusions, hallucinations, and

unrest, can find some peace. A proper medical treatment will solve

the problem.

 

Real problem is faced in getting him to hospital. There are methods

however available with Doctors for such souls also. HE MUST BE IN A

HOSPITAL FIRST.

 

She should not consider this man as husband. She should consider him

to be of God and not of her. Thereupon, she should do her duty. What

she can do and what she should do ! She is free now. Bondage is on

the other side. Still she can continue serving- if she can and if

she should. Let her " conscience " decide that.

 

She should not be over curious in the question regarding her or his

karma. One reaps the results of his karma only.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sister, whatever unwanted, unfavorable situations that come to us in

this life, it is the fruit of our karmas alone, whether it be from

this life or previous lives. Similarly whatever favorable situations

that come in our life without desiring them, those too are only the

fruits of our past karmas (whether they be from this life or

previous lives). It is not that we are getting the fruits of

someone else's karmas (actions). It does not happen that we can get

the fruits of someone else's actions. Ishvar (God) is not a human

being, therefore deliberating on whether He has done or not, is not

possible. That which IS, That which happens, and That which has

already happened, That itself is Ishvar (God). Remember this -

" That which is not supposed to happen, does not happen. That which

is to happen, happens. " And in this to be contented and satisfied,

is what is meant by rising above happiness and unhappiness.

 

Vineet Sarvottam

 

------------------------------

Dear sadak Kunti D,Sozsa,

It is bounded duty of husband to care of his wife under any

circumstances. Sri Rama is the best example. Knowing Mother seetha

is carried away by Ravana, HE still went all the way to Lanka. Sri

Rama took months to reach sri Lanka. The determination to rescue

mother Seetha never reduced a bit. There were circumstances where

Sri Rama could have doubted Seetha. But Never did so even in mind.

So if one ill treats his wife for some reason or other, may be even

mentally retarded, the wife` s bondage is broken.

 

Take in case of Saint Meera. She was thrown out by her husband and

even poisioned. But Sri Krishna took care in all moments. Is it due

to bad Karma or not, it is not your look out.

 

Surrender to GOD (Which ever religion may be), your karmas washes

away, besides your remaining time becomes most useful. If a husband

throws his wife more than 3 times, then the wife has right to stay

away from her husband, sastra says.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-

 

This is a sad situation that is all too common these days. People

spend beyond their means during marriage and live to repent ever

after. Especaily for the woman the situation becomes really bad. In

this condition she should be guided by her own conscience and do

what she thinks is right. If she does that then she won't suffer

bad karmas.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

An unfavourable situation arises due to all combinations

 

1) Bad Karma

2) Not Attending to Problem in this life itself problem snow balls

 

A Bad karma brings a bad situation but due to our this life's good

karmas we should be able to over come it.

 

if we have acted according to prev bad karmas and made this life

karmas more then nobody can save the situation.

 

Bad Karmas should be phased out slowly thru perservance, good karmas

in this life and surrendering problem to Lord Himself.

 

Karma is like skin on us, more u rub more pain. it should smoothly

phased out no other way. Karma stops when u do a job related to it

and leave the result to GOD.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

Shiva Kumar Shapur

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

 

------------------------

 

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[Guest guest]

When one is harassed, terrorized and victimized - be it at physical

or mental levels, and one is forced to step out of a marriage...

which otherwise, the person did not or could not take action before,

do you take it as act of God or your own action.

 

When after being thrown out of house in the middle of the night and

each time this person goes on forgiving and again and again receives

same treatment, and ultimately, after 2 years of separation, the

husband calls her back because he is 64 years and cannot cook. He

is provided with money, house and car ...wife refuses to go back not

out of vengence or hatred but out of self preservation, self esteem

and self worth which was shatered. Husband decides to annul the

marriage since the wife does not go back. Can be taken as plan of

God or the person decides not to become a victim anymore. Husband

has mental problems, but always refused to cure himself. Lives in

the past, highly emotional, obsessed, does not give freedom, had

thrown his two sons out of the house when they had just graduated.

Now he is ready to take treatment but wants the wife home.

The wife is scared and has decided to live separately but pays for

his upkeep. Does she suffer bad karmas?

 

Kunti D'Souza

 

------------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Principle of detachment is the key. But how to practice detachment?

That is the major area that needs to be addressed.

 

As per spirituality/wisdom of life/rules of life, every

incident/situation is to be

seen as an event (not good or bad event). And the events come in

life to teach us, to train us, to clean us off the dust that is

preventing us to be one with divine.

 

It (good or bad) is all happening at the thought level.

Thoughts can pull you down to lowest levels and thoughts can lift

you up to highest levels.

Feelings come later. Thoughts will come and go.

 

The trick is to practice witnessing the thoughts from a distance,

become aware of what is happening to our feelings because of our

thoughts. And if feelings are not good/comfortable/happy then

immediately switch over to positive thoughts by giving the mind

positive thoughts/happy thoughts - It is all good, it will teach me

something, it is for my growth, etc. And see what happens. The

feelings will be change to comfortable ones bringing you back to

your true self. Once you are in control, the desired action to

tackle the situation can be initiated. Again all through this one

has to live in the wisdom - reminding constantly of remaining in

positive thoughts>happy thoughts and work towards " no thoughts " ...

 

Understanding is that the every event, bad or good, has come to

teach us/train us/ take us to higher levels of consciousness. And

have complete confidence/faith in this understanding.

 

As soon as this is done, detachment starts to happen..and we are in

the happy natural state.....in complete harmony with nature, in

total acceptance of what is happening,....a state of surrender or

bhakti....where nature starts working through us. The small 'I'

goes, The big 'I' remains. And when nature works, it is all good..

 

Nature takes over the happenings.....the surprisingly even the

events starts to change.....without your asking for it.

 

Dhanyawad

Sushil Jain

 

 

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Aadarneeyaa Sadhna Karigar jee,

 

Shri Bhagavaan has certainly said `Sarva dharmaan parityajya, maam

ekam sharanam vraja'. But he has also taught: Tasmaat shaastram

pramaanam te kaarya akaarya vyvasthitau/ Gyaatvaa shaastra vidhaan-

oktam karma kartum-ih-arhasi// Gita 16:24

 

In the former `sarva dharmaan parityajya' does not stands for

renouncing one's Dharmas, but the fruit of Dharmas, because, as per

the teachings of Shri Bhagavan, the former are not to be abandoned

at any cost: niyatasya tu parityaagah karmano nop-padyate.(Gita 18:7)

 

Dr. Ranjeet Singh

------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

God Bless you,

 

Already you have received good spiritual advice, and some very

practical advice.

So I will give some experiential comment.

Right now a person who treated me in an unspeakable manner over

decades is very likely going to die in the next few hours.

I myself had learned to distance myself, and yet lend help silently

and gently. Over the years from being a person who she hated the

most, I became the person who could do no wrong in her eyes, (I

hasten to add not in mine), she often said, " There had to be a

reason, why you came here to live " , she was referring to my wife and

myself, (we moved to the same city. What a change!)

 

I hope the sons give support to the wife, it makes the task of giving

support to the husband so much easier.

My very humble opinion is, the wife should become detached, but with

compassion, that seems to be the case. (She is not a cook or a

coolie, she is a shining star.)

 

There is enormous karma being worked out, that is my experience.

Swamiji indicated that unfavorable circumstances can be a blessing, I

bow to him.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

----------------------------

what i do when in conflict with husband who is irrational and does

not realize wife's positive initiatives and ever criticizing I

always pray to god to give him peace of mind. I pray him not to let

me take wrong decision/wrong actions, I pray to him to give a way

out that is satisfactory to both of us and believe me god always

responds . some solution does come up that is satisfactory to both.

 

I know it is very difficult to put-up with such a husband who is

difficult to live with and difficult to live without. Please

whatever decision you take just keep the god in your heart, pray to

him and the decision will definitely be right.

 

It is true that whatever unfavorable situations we go thru is the

result of our past karmas but still we have to act, we have to do

our duty to the best of our capability and leave the result to Him.

 

vandana

 

-------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna,

 

According to Gita (what I understood), Arjuna wanted to pity on

Kauravas.

But Krishna denied. He wanted them to be punished for their bad

deeds.

So in this case, the women is self dependent, since she is paying

for the upkeep of her husband.

There is no need to go back. This will only help him by fulfilling

his ego.

I don't think Gita supports these type of people in any way. They

should suffer.

 

Ashok Goenka

 

 

 

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

 

1. An unfavorable situation could be called result of past bad karma

but to be happy/unhappy or indifferent in that situation is entirely

upon us. As swamiji says the best utilization of favorable situation

is to serve the world, and the best utilization of unfavorable

situation is to go inside and realize our own Self..

2.Usually to fulfill our worldly duties which we call mother's

dharma, or a wife's dharma we forget our true dharma. Our true

dharma is- to realize our own Self, to realize who am I ? The sole

purpose of human birth is to realize God.

3.Due to worldly attachments we forget that we are just PLAYING

roles of a mother/father/wife/husband,actually we are not

mother/father/husband/ or wife of anyone, we need to detach our own

Self from those roles. It is good to perform these duties without

attachment but it is best to practice our true dharma which is to

KNOW GOD/SELF/BRAHMAN.

4.Whenever you have conflict in deciding what dharma to follow,

follow Krishna's guidance, read and contemplate on Gita, the answer

will come to you.

Krishna says- " Sarva dharma paritjya mamek sharanam vrij... " Leave all

dharma aside and completely surrender to Me only....

So leave all yr inner conflict aside and surrender completely to

Krishna only.

5. On this worldly stage, give yr husband another chance or not, is

entirely up to you. Baiya sathyanarayan has explained already that

you are free of this husband-wife bondage, as per our shashtras.

6.Lead life of a Sadhak(a true seeker). Read last 8 stanza of Gita

chapter2. These stanza shows all the characteristics of a true

seekers.A true seeker is always established in God and remain

indifferent in all worldly situations.

I understand the stress and conflict you are going through, but you

are not the role you have been playing, you are part of Brahman/God

who is Satchitanand (Bliss only).Know Thyself...

I am sure you will find Peace, Bliss and Love within.

With lots of Love,

a Sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

In such situations, I would echo what Sathyanarayanji has said.

Karmas don't mean to make one suffer, they are just the signal to

think and act to correct the situations.

Besides karmas are never personal, they are collective/mass karmas

affecting in an impersonal ways.

If by the grace of God and teachings such as Gita or other

scriptures, and/or wise friend(s), one comes upon the understanding

that one is not a person, an independent doer of his/her deeds, how

can karmas be personal? What I mean is when person itself is an

illusory, his/her karmas have to so! Person is role God is playing

as " you " .

If this is not understood clearly, then only seemingly bad/evil

actions stem from that " person " in the name of protecting one

false " me " who is in conflict with another " me " .

In all situations, always, God-Impersonal Being, Totality, takes

into considerations interests of all parties involved, meaning

husband, wife, children, other realtives, friends, society etc and

thus the result of such disputes are resolved regardless of personal

interest of one.

What one needs to do is to see this point clearly, and then pray

deeply by asking the help of those who can help, ask Impersonal/God

to help. Then actions will follow from your mind-body as instrument

or channel paving the way for God to act which will be beneficial to

all.

Again God acts only through people for people, by giving them

intelligence to act provided a person lives righteously all his/her

life. If done sincerely then spouses can stay separate in dire

desparate situations, still wishing good for one another. No one

needs to stay fatalistically in an abusive relationship forever

thinking its " my Karmas " . Karmas are body of collective ignorance of

all mankind, not mine or yours! Our problem is we believe they

are " mine " or " yours " .

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Hari Om

 

The wife in question is confronted with a dilemma regarding

her " duty " . Here is a husband who has been say " schizhophrenic " and

mentally ailing for a long long time. Cruelty, harrassment, throwing

kids out of house, arrogance etc have been quite natural for him,

therefore. Treatment is a must for him.

 

All along wife is kind enough to provide him with financial support

also. The raising of very this question suggests she is

still " attached " by " mineness " with her husband. Understandable.

 

Fact as appears to me is that now the problem is with husband

because it is now his turn to face the music, to reap the results

of his karmas. He is 64 and needs wife badly as he can see that

nothing can replace a wife in the old age. That is law of karma. So

far this life good wife reaped results of her own past deeds and now

this life bad husband is in clutches of the Law of Karma. Husband

sees no point in getting treated because the main requirement for

him is of wife. He thinks that if wife is there to lift coolly his

tantrums he can lord over as in the past. Logical.

Understandable.

 

What the wife should do? This is the question. My view is that she

should introspect again if she has soft corner still for him. If

there is no soft corner left, then she can take tough stand

because " service has destroyed mineness /attachment already " . If

yes, then she should continue financial support to him, and she

should insist for his medical treatment first. She should weigh the

situation with 2 yardsticks. CAN I do? SHOULD I do ? If she cannot-

it is not her " duty " . If she should not- it is not her " duty " .

On " should " front she should rely on her " conscience " , holy

scriptures, advice of elders and logic.(Shruti/Yukti/Anubhuti).

 

Are two sons taking care of Mom? If questioner can reply to this, it

will have impact on answer. This answer presumes - Yes !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

----------------------------

 

Divine atmans

unfavorable situation for a sadhak is the real test

of patience for example in examination paper a student has to

prepare for his exams as per the syllabus similarly if a sadhak is

really in the field of sadhana then his tolerance and his complete

surrender in the feet of lord is seen only in these unfavrable

situation.Lord Krishna said in Shreemad Bhagwat Gita " In all the good

and bad situation if a person keeps on chanting my name and keeps on

thinking of me then that atman is subject to mukti by me " :So my dear

sadhak if u r a real lover of lord then see the optimistic approach

behind every unfavorable situation.God never does any thing bad for

his child because he is the real promiser and the real one who can

be trusted because he is the who is with in all of us in the form of

ansh that is atman we are part of him .

So dear plz make ur eyes and views optimistic because in sadhna

optimism play a vital role for god realisation.

Jai Shri Krishna

Raksh Mehra

------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

Wife in question can afford not to go back and tolerate any more.

Since he is " husband " given to her by God, she may ensure that he is

put in a mental hospital. A week's treatment there will put his

ailing mind under control. The conduct of husband suggests that he

is acute schizhophrenic. This disease can be brought under control.

He will become like a goat after treatment. All this roarings,

arrogance etc will vanish with medication. She should wish that the

soul that is at present sufferring illusions, hallucinations, and

unrest, can find some peace. A proper medical treatment will solve

the problem.

 

Real problem is faced in getting him to hospital. There are methods

however available with Doctors for such souls also. HE MUST BE IN A

HOSPITAL FIRST.

 

She should not consider this man as husband. She should consider him

to be of God and not of her. Thereupon, she should do her duty. What

she can do and what she should do ! She is free now. Bondage is on

the other side. Still she can continue serving- if she can and if

she should. Let her " conscience " decide that.

 

She should not be over curious in the question regarding her or his

karma. One reaps the results of his karma only.

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sister, whatever unwanted, unfavorable situations that come to us in

this life, it is the fruit of our karmas alone, whether it be from

this life or previous lives. Similarly whatever favorable situations

that come in our life without desiring them, those too are only the

fruits of our past karmas (whether they be from this life or

previous lives). It is not that we are getting the fruits of

someone else's karmas (actions). It does not happen that we can get

the fruits of someone else's actions. Ishvar (God) is not a human

being, therefore deliberating on whether He has done or not, is not

possible. That which IS, That which happens, and That which has

already happened, That itself is Ishvar (God). Remember this -

" That which is not supposed to happen, does not happen. That which

is to happen, happens. " And in this to be contented and satisfied,

is what is meant by rising above happiness and unhappiness.

 

Vineet Sarvottam

 

------------------------------

Dear sadak Kunti D,Sozsa,

It is bounded duty of husband to care of his wife under any

circumstances. Sri Rama is the best example. Knowing Mother seetha

is carried away by Ravana, HE still went all the way to Lanka. Sri

Rama took months to reach sri Lanka. The determination to rescue

mother Seetha never reduced a bit. There were circumstances where

Sri Rama could have doubted Seetha. But Never did so even in mind.

So if one ill treats his wife for some reason or other, may be even

mentally retarded, the wife` s bondage is broken.

 

Take in case of Saint Meera. She was thrown out by her husband and

even poisioned. But Sri Krishna took care in all moments. Is it due

to bad Karma or not, it is not your look out.

 

Surrender to GOD (Which ever religion may be), your karmas washes

away, besides your remaining time becomes most useful. If a husband

throws his wife more than 3 times, then the wife has right to stay

away from her husband, sastra says.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-

 

This is a sad situation that is all too common these days. People

spend beyond their means during marriage and live to repent ever

after. Especaily for the woman the situation becomes really bad. In

this condition she should be guided by her own conscience and do

what she thinks is right. If she does that then she won't suffer

bad karmas.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

An unfavourable situation arises due to all combinations

 

1) Bad Karma

2) Not Attending to Problem in this life itself problem snow balls

 

A Bad karma brings a bad situation but due to our this life's good

karmas we should be able to over come it.

 

if we have acted according to prev bad karmas and made this life

karmas more then nobody can save the situation.

 

Bad Karmas should be phased out slowly thru perservance, good karmas

in this life and surrendering problem to Lord Himself.

 

Karma is like skin on us, more u rub more pain. it should smoothly

phased out no other way. Karma stops when u do a job related to it

and leave the result to GOD.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

Shiva Kumar Shapur

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

 

------------------------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

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