Guest guest Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 I am very happy to read these exchanges of spiritual ideas under the topic of " Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism " . I find them to be equally valuable to non-Hindus like me (I was born in a Christian family). It is wonderful to see that these noble thoughts are interpreted in an inclusive fashion for all religions -- dealing with right and wrong, duty, and truth. I was brought up with the ideals of service to humanity as service to God. As I understand there is nothing else above service. Any effort to " purify " oneself without service to others is meaningless. Will someone be able to provide the philosophy concerning " service to humanity " as it relates to our life itself? Abraham M. George ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I am very happy to read these exchanges of spiritual ideas under the topic of " Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism " . I find them to be equally valuable to non-Hindus like me (I was born in a Christian family). It is wonderful to see that these noble thoughts are interpreted in an inclusive fashion for all religions -- dealing with right and wrong, duty, and truth. I was brought up with the ideals of service to humanity as service to God. As I understand there is nothing else above service. Any effort to " purify " oneself without service to others is meaningless. Will someone be able to provide the philosophy concerning " service to humanity " as it relates to our life itself? Abraham M. George ----------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om A very good question. Indeed our Sanatan Dharma addresses the humanity at large irrespective of caste, creed, culture, colour, country, civilisation, sect, religion, belief etc. Welcome Brother Abraham ! " Philosophy concerning service to humanity as it relates to our life itself " is the central theme for deliberations. Let me get at macro level and explain " subtle " fundamental principles on the subject. (All compiled from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj) LITTLE KNOWN GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SWAMIJI ON " SEVA " - Service to humanity at large. In all the cases one must understand categorically that " service " (seva) is rendered always by sentiments/emotions/intentions - in other words by " bhava " . Service is done by " bhava " not by grant of worldly things. To give worldly things is not service. That even a shop keeper does. 1 ...Only that person can do " service " who does not need anything anytime for himself. Desire to do service, is as bad as is desire to get money, worldly things etc- because subtly the former is cause and latter the result. Hence as a principle - one should do service if an opportunity arises and if you have ability, but one should not have a " desire to do service and for that purpose to get worldly things, money etc " . There should be " bhava " (inner sentiments) not " desire " . Service is a bhava (inner sentiments) not a karma (action). 2... To become happy by making others happy or to keep a sentiment inside that " Because of me others are getting happy " or to desire even a little honor or praise, and become happy upon receipt of such praise or honor- this is in fact " consumption " (Bhog) and not " service " ! Because in such a case service gets converted into the consumption of pleasure and becomes for " self " . That creates importance of pleasure, money, worldly things etc and thereby arise " mineness " and " desire " . 3... " I am giving something to someone " - one who has this sentiment or bhava , he cannot understand and it is very difficult for someone to make him understand that the worldly things used for service in fact belonged only to the servicee. We have simply given him what belonged to him. Where then the question of any reciprocation/acknowledgement/superiority/obligation/ happiness/sorrow/pride/honor/etc arises ?? Do we expect anything when we wash our face with our hands? By the way " purification " is not the end result of real " service " . I shall touch upon it latter. But in the meantime may I ask you Brother Abraham - " Purification of What? Why? " One's Self is ever pure ! Hence " purification of one's self " is not fitting into. It should not be a " desire " . Refer para 1 above. NOTHING TO BE DONE FOR SELF - is the cardinal principle of " Service " . In any case I will touch upon it. First let us grasp the " philosophy " - principles. An active deliberation on first the principles then on practice should make up ideal response. To be continued. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Dear Mr.George, Service to humanity alone is not complete service. Service to other beings that helps humanity around us is also important. Like feeding birds that keeps environment, watering plants that produces oxygen, being kind to pets within and outside home etc. Love thy neighbour (regard less of caste and creed - otherwise it could have been mentioned love thy Christian neighbour). Thou shall not cast eyes on neighbour` s wife, show the other cheek if you are slapped. All these are there in Bhagavat Geetha also in detail. Path to divinity and liberation is common, but told in differant aspects. The parable about a priest travelling coming across a needy person on roadside, is just neglected. Another priest crossing the same person did all the help to the person on road side. This is service. But there is a vital importance in Service. If one thinks in mind level somewhere in a corner that he is servicing, the whole serving becomes business and Not divine. The service done yesterday should not be in mind. It should be forgotten. The services done should be done without fame and name, surrendering it to God. The outcome of services by abuses and praises are to be treated Null and void. All these are there in Bagavath Geetha and in Old Testament, parables. If a little special treatment is shown to a Hindu brother or a Christian brother over another person, the service goes waste as far as divinity. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ Dear Abraham, I have taken the liberty of pasting in an extract from the latests post from Sadhak_insight by Swami Ramsukhdasji, you could go to : http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (English site) to connect. '.....He is with us. " Param shaanti, param anand. " (Eternal Peace, Eternal Bliss) This is the truth. Therefore simply accept – Bhagavaan (God) is mine. Serve all, but do not consider anyone to be your very own. Just like Mirabai says - " Mere toh Giridhar Gopal, duseraa ne koyi. " (Only Giridhar Gopal is Mine. There is None Other). Serve all and all will be happy if you serve them. But remain ever joyful belonging to only One.... " . The reason I mention swamiji is his Soul transcends all faiths it seems. Jesus to me seemed to be a Prayer to God in action. (all He did for mankind was in His Fathers name. Our Fathers name). In all Hearts is the need to serve others. The egos speak for Satan. Actually, service to others is the outcome of the desire for The Beloved, thus the focus on the Divine, creates the natural response to serve others, a prayer in action. Just a few thoughts. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ------------------------------ Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Right you are Abrahamji, service to humanity is service to God. How can it be otherwise? All humanity and animals, plants, environment, nature are manifest God! As Swamiji says, our body-mind-intellect are just to serve only. Whom do we serve? If one thinks deeply, one may see one serves oneself while serving apparent " others " . One gets rewarded right there and then in terms of inner satisfaction, joy, peace, provided Love dominates the service! The greatest of all services though is to know thyself like all saints and sages have done through their words of wisdom which uplift humanity as exemplified by Jesus, Mother Teresa, Ramakrishna Mission and the likes. Such wisdom as that which comes from God realization have been proven far more effective. It guides one to serve in most resourceful ways. Service without humility breeds pride hurting giver and recipients, both equally. Service must be considered a privilege, one must be thankful to those receiving help, so that one can be happy serving. Namaskara.............. Pratap Bhatt ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman Welcome Brother George ! Jee! Great question and great sentiment indeed. Let us take first the object of " service " . It can't be " purification " . Because any sentiment/bhava/ inner expression of " purification " necessarily and essentially reflects " continuation of connection with the subject matter of purification " . The subject matter of " purification " can only be " inert " and never be " sentient " . Hence object of service can only be " disconnection " with inert and never purification there of. Hence No ! No, Brother you should not serve to " purify " something or anything ! Nothing is dirty ! All is divine! If something is impure, it is not ours. On top of it, that impurity consists ONLY in fact of our " mineness " with that. Else that something is pure ab initio. You are pure ab initio. Impurity is your " connection " with the world, worldly people, and worldly objects and things only. The moment " mineness " with them is gone ( worldly people and things- including your body, mind, intellect etc) - impurity is gone- that impurity is gone which in fact never existed- only mineness existed ! Mineness is impurity! " Connection " is impurity. Because out of connection - desires and mineness arise! Hence once there is an importance inside of something, of some impurity somewhere needing purification , be that related to purification of money earned, or mind or intellect or body or worldly things or of servicee or of servicor- the karma is not " seva " (Service) ! Object of " seva " is always to " disconnect " one's self with the worldly possessions, desires, mineness, ego, cause and effect circle, karma and result circle - never to " connect " with them ! In fact when you do service- real service- you " disconnect " yourself with the worldly things, mind, intellect etc. Where is the question of " purification " ? When nothing is yours, and nothing is for you, to purify what ? Why? How? Bolo Jee! Respond Brother! We shall continue deliberating. I hope my first posting on the subject shall be received in right spirit by you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I am very happy to read these exchanges of spiritual ideas under the topic of " Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism " . I find them to be equally valuable to non-Hindus like me (I was born in a Christian family). It is wonderful to see that these noble thoughts are interpreted in an inclusive fashion for all religions -- dealing with right and wrong, duty, and truth. I was brought up with the ideals of service to humanity as service to God. As I understand there is nothing else above service. Any effort to " purify " oneself without service to others is meaningless. Will someone be able to provide the philosophy concerning " service to humanity " as it relates to our life itself? Abraham M. George ----------------------------- NEW POSTING Jai Hanuman TWO CARDINAL PRINCIPLES One of the most essential care one should take while rendering " service " - is that neither you should consider the person to whom you are serving as " yours " nor you should consider the things with which you serve (say body, money, power etc) to him to be " yours " . Secondly, no desire , even the slighest, for reciprocation or returns from the servicee or God or any other - these two are cardinal principles of service ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Hari Om 4 ... FORM OF SERVICE To serve - means to give pleasure/happiness to others. To every one. With no exceptions. Always. Without any expectations. As a matter of duty. This is yardstick. When you do good, you in fact are limiting yourself to a particular person/group. You can't to do good to all in the universe.. Limitations of time, worldly things, circumstances, distances don't let you do that. So what to do ? Answer is: Never cause harm/displeasure/sorrow to any one / any body/ anything in this universe. You then has done good to all without any exceptions. You have reached by your sentiment/bhava to all creatures. There is no limitation of worldly things, time etc now for you. Hence the real service to the entire universe is - not harming/hurting any one, any time, anywhere ! Here your " bhava " of not doing bad to anyone is " unlimited " . That gets you the element which is " unlimited " - Paramatma ! To be continued Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- In short, true Seva or Service should serve the service-giver i.e. take him to higher conciousness levels. Seva ho but sevek na ho! Sevek disappears (Service without service-giver being there...) Sushil Jain ---------------------------- Abraham If you want, you may read free online of " Bhagavat Gita As It Is " . Do a " Search " and you will find it. Hare Krishna Srinivas kolluri ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om A very good question. Indeed our Sanatan Dharma addresses the humanity at large irrespective of caste, creed, culture, colour, country, civilisation, sect, religion, belief etc. Welcome Brother Abraham ! " Philosophy concerning service to humanity as it relates to our life itself " is the central theme for deliberations. Let me get at macro level and explain " subtle " fundamental principles on the subject. (All compiled from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj) LITTLE KNOWN GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SWAMIJI ON " SEVA " - Service to humanity at large. In all the cases one must understand categorically that " service " (seva) is rendered always by sentiments/emotions/intentions - in other words by " bhava " . Service is done by " bhava " not by grant of worldly things. To give worldly things is not service. That even a shop keeper does. 1 ...Only that person can do " service " who does not need anything anytime for himself. Desire to do service, is as bad as is desire to get money, worldly things etc- because subtly the former is cause and latter the result. Hence as a principle - one should do service if an opportunity arises and if you have ability, but one should not have a " desire to do service and for that purpose to get worldly things, money etc " . There should be " bhava " (inner sentiments) not " desire " . Service is a bhava (inner sentiments) not a karma (action). 2... To become happy by making others happy or to keep a sentiment inside that " Because of me others are getting happy " or to desire even a little honor or praise, and become happy upon receipt of such praise or honor- this is in fact " consumption " (Bhog) and not " service " ! Because in such a case service gets converted into the consumption of pleasure and becomes for " self " . That creates importance of pleasure, money, worldly things etc and thereby arise " mineness " and " desire " . 3... " I am giving something to someone " - one who has this sentiment or bhava , he cannot understand and it is very difficult for someone to make him understand that the worldly things used for service in fact belonged only to the servicee. We have simply given him what belonged to him. Where then the question of any reciprocation/acknowledgement/superiority/obligation/ happiness/sorrow/pride/honor/etc arises ?? Do we expect anything when we wash our face with our hands? By the way " purification " is not the end result of real " service " . I shall touch upon it latter. But in the meantime may I ask you Brother Abraham - " Purification of What? Why? " One's Self is ever pure ! Hence " purification of one's self " is not fitting into. It should not be a " desire " . Refer para 1 above. NOTHING TO BE DONE FOR SELF - is the cardinal principle of " Service " . In any case I will touch upon it. First let us grasp the " philosophy " - principles. An active deliberation on first the principles then on practice should make up ideal response. To be continued. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Dear Mr.George, Service to humanity alone is not complete service. Service to other beings that helps humanity around us is also important. Like feeding birds that keeps environment, watering plants that produces oxygen, being kind to pets within and outside home etc. Love thy neighbour (regard less of caste and creed - otherwise it could have been mentioned love thy Christian neighbour). Thou shall not cast eyes on neighbour` s wife, show the other cheek if you are slapped. All these are there in Bhagavat Geetha also in detail. Path to divinity and liberation is common, but told in differant aspects. The parable about a priest travelling coming across a needy person on roadside, is just neglected. Another priest crossing the same person did all the help to the person on road side. This is service. But there is a vital importance in Service. If one thinks in mind level somewhere in a corner that he is servicing, the whole serving becomes business and Not divine. The service done yesterday should not be in mind. It should be forgotten. The services done should be done without fame and name, surrendering it to God. The outcome of services by abuses and praises are to be treated Null and void. All these are there in Bagavath Geetha and in Old Testament, parables. If a little special treatment is shown to a Hindu brother or a Christian brother over another person, the service goes waste as far as divinity. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ Dear Abraham, I have taken the liberty of pasting in an extract from the latests post from Sadhak_insight by Swami Ramsukhdasji, you could go to : http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (English site) to connect. '.....He is with us. " Param shaanti, param anand. " (Eternal Peace, Eternal Bliss) This is the truth. Therefore simply accept – Bhagavaan (God) is mine. Serve all, but do not consider anyone to be your very own. Just like Mirabai says - " Mere toh Giridhar Gopal, duseraa ne koyi. " (Only Giridhar Gopal is Mine. There is None Other). Serve all and all will be happy if you serve them. But remain ever joyful belonging to only One.... " . The reason I mention swamiji is his Soul transcends all faiths it seems. Jesus to me seemed to be a Prayer to God in action. (all He did for mankind was in His Fathers name. Our Fathers name). In all Hearts is the need to serve others. The egos speak for Satan. Actually, service to others is the outcome of the desire for The Beloved, thus the focus on the Divine, creates the natural response to serve others, a prayer in action. Just a few thoughts. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ------------------------------ Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Right you are Abrahamji, service to humanity is service to God. How can it be otherwise? All humanity and animals, plants, environment, nature are manifest God! As Swamiji says, our body-mind-intellect are just to serve only. Whom do we serve? If one thinks deeply, one may see one serves oneself while serving apparent " others " . One gets rewarded right there and then in terms of inner satisfaction, joy, peace, provided Love dominates the service! The greatest of all services though is to know thyself like all saints and sages have done through their words of wisdom which uplift humanity as exemplified by Jesus, Mother Teresa, Ramakrishna Mission and the likes. Such wisdom as that which comes from God realization have been proven far more effective. It guides one to serve in most resourceful ways. Service without humility breeds pride hurting giver and recipients, both equally. Service must be considered a privilege, one must be thankful to those receiving help, so that one can be happy serving. Namaskara.............. Pratap Bhatt ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman Welcome Brother George ! Jee! Great question and great sentiment indeed. Let us take first the object of " service " . It can't be " purification " . Because any sentiment/bhava/ inner expression of " purification " necessarily and essentially reflects " continuation of connection with the subject matter of purification " . The subject matter of " purification " can only be " inert " and never be " sentient " . Hence object of service can only be " disconnection " with inert and never purification there of. Hence No ! No, Brother you should not serve to " purify " something or anything ! Nothing is dirty ! All is divine! If something is impure, it is not ours. On top of it, that impurity consists ONLY in fact of our " mineness " with that. Else that something is pure ab initio. You are pure ab initio. Impurity is your " connection " with the world, worldly people, and worldly objects and things only. The moment " mineness " with them is gone ( worldly people and things- including your body, mind, intellect etc) - impurity is gone- that impurity is gone which in fact never existed- only mineness existed ! Mineness is impurity! " Connection " is impurity. Because out of connection - desires and mineness arise! Hence once there is an importance inside of something, of some impurity somewhere needing purification , be that related to purification of money earned, or mind or intellect or body or worldly things or of servicee or of servicor- the karma is not " seva " (Service) ! Object of " seva " is always to " disconnect " one's self with the worldly possessions, desires, mineness, ego, cause and effect circle, karma and result circle - never to " connect " with them ! In fact when you do service- real service- you " disconnect " yourself with the worldly things, mind, intellect etc. Where is the question of " purification " ? When nothing is yours, and nothing is for you, to purify what ? Why? How? Bolo Jee! Respond Brother! We shall continue deliberating. I hope my first posting on the subject shall be received in right spirit by you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 I am very happy to read these exchanges of spiritual ideas under the topic of " Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism " . I find them to be equally valuable to non-Hindus like me (I was born in a Christian family). It is wonderful to see that these noble thoughts are interpreted in an inclusive fashion for all religions -- dealing with right and wrong, duty, and truth. I was brought up with the ideals of service to humanity as service to God. As I understand there is nothing else above service. Any effort to " purify " oneself without service to others is meaningless. Will someone be able to provide the philosophy concerning " service to humanity " as it relates to our life itself? Abraham M. George ----------------------------- NEW POSTING Please read Swamiji's daily message over the last couple of days on Service. It provides a very different perspective than what most people ordinarily consider as serving/service to others. The links on Philosophy of Service / How to serve are - sadhaka/message/2159 sadhaka/message/2160 Thank you for this beautiful and timely posting. The gist of true service is when the other person - 1) Becomes happy in present and 2) Is benefited (uplifted, liberated) in the future. When these two things take place, the other person has been served. Service is not about physically doing something or giving money/material things. Service can be done by everyone without exceptions, as it does not require money or power or anything for that matter. By serving with money, it can lead to egoism and disrespect for the other person and cause disharmony. Also thinking that we can serve with money and material things, is giving more importance to money and things than true service. Very few are doing true service these days. By simply uniting with the other in their happy and sad moments, the other person will be served. If someone else serves better than you, let there be no jealousy. Rather be very happy in their ability to serve, as our work is done without any effort on our part. Please read again! So beautiful! It is very different philosophy on service than we have heard or practiced. It is more about the sentiments (bhaav) than about physically providing money or things. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Dear Abraham, Happy New Year 2009 to you and all your Family My Dear, Philosophy on Service to Humanity is a very interesting topic. Shri Gita as told by God Krishna to Mr. Arjuna is full of Service to Humanity. In Chapter 5 God Krishna Said that Karmayogis perform action while shaking off attachment(fruits) simply for the sake of self-purification. (Verse 11). And in Verse 12---- " Selfish motive ties down a man because he is attached to the fruit of action. In this way , you will find a lot of verses in this tiny scripture which is the sourse of all scriptures as God is as source of all origins. May God Bless You, Glory to God Krishna Mahesh Sharma - Vyasa after composing tons of scriptures concludes that he is able to summarize what is said in 10 million books in half a verse: shloka ardhena pravakshyaami (I will tell you in half a verse) yat uktam grantha koTibih (what is spoken in 10 million books) para upakaara puNyaaya (helping others is virtue) paapaaya para peeDanam (causing pain to others is sin) Koti Sreekrishna ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman TWO CARDINAL PRINCIPLES One of the most essential care one should take while rendering " service " - is that neither you should consider the person to whom you are serving as " yours " nor you should consider the things with which you serve (say body, money, power etc) to him to be " yours " . Secondly, no desire , even the slighest, for reciprocation or returns from the servicee or God or any other - these two are cardinal principles of service ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Hari Om 4 ... FORM OF SERVICE To serve - means to give pleasure/happiness to others. To every one. With no exceptions. Always. Without any expectations. As a matter of duty. This is yardstick. When you do good, you in fact are limiting yourself to a particular person/group. You can't to do good to all in the universe.. Limitations of time, worldly things, circumstances, distances don't let you do that. So what to do ? Answer is: Never cause harm/displeasure/sorrow to any one / any body/ anything in this universe. You then has done good to all without any exceptions. You have reached by your sentiment/bhava to all creatures. There is no limitation of worldly things, time etc now for you. Hence the real service to the entire universe is - not harming/hurting any one, any time, anywhere ! Here your " bhava " of not doing bad to anyone is " unlimited " . That gets you the element which is " unlimited " - Paramatma ! To be continued Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- In short, true Seva or Service should serve the service-giver i.e. take him to higher conciousness levels. Seva ho but sevek na ho! Sevek disappears (Service without service- giver being there...) Sushil Jain ---------------------------- Abraham If you want, you may read free online of " Bhagavat Gita As It Is " . Do a " Search " and you will find it. Hare Krishna Srinivas kolluri ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om A very good question. Indeed our Sanatan Dharma addresses the humanity at large irrespective of caste, creed, culture, colour, country, civilisation, sect, religion, belief etc. Welcome Brother Abraham ! " Philosophy concerning service to humanity as it relates to our life itself " is the central theme for deliberations. Let me get at macro level and explain " subtle " fundamental principles on the subject. (All compiled from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj) LITTLE KNOWN GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SWAMIJI ON " SEVA " - Service to humanity at large. In all the cases one must understand categorically that " service " (seva) is rendered always by sentiments/emotions/intentions - in other words by " bhava " . Service is done by " bhava " not by grant of worldly things. To give worldly things is not service. That even a shop keeper does. 1 ...Only that person can do " service " who does not need anything anytime for himself. Desire to do service, is as bad as is desire to get money, worldly things etc- because subtly the former is cause and latter the result. Hence as a principle - one should do service if an opportunity arises and if you have ability, but one should not have a " desire to do service and for that purpose to get worldly things, money etc " . There should be " bhava " (inner sentiments) not " desire " . Service is a bhava (inner sentiments) not a karma (action). 2... To become happy by making others happy or to keep a sentiment inside that " Because of me others are getting happy " or to desire even a little honor or praise, and become happy upon receipt of such praise or honor- this is in fact " consumption " (Bhog) and not " service " ! Because in such a case service gets converted into the consumption of pleasure and becomes for " self " . That creates importance of pleasure, money, worldly things etc and thereby arise " mineness " and " desire " . 3... " I am giving something to someone " - one who has this sentiment or bhava , he cannot understand and it is very difficult for someone to make him understand that the worldly things used for service in fact belonged only to the servicee. We have simply given him what belonged to him. Where then the question of any reciprocation/acknowledgement/superiority/obligation/ happiness/sorrow/pride/honor/etc arises ?? Do we expect anything when we wash our face with our hands? By the way " purification " is not the end result of real " service " . I shall touch upon it latter. But in the meantime may I ask you Brother Abraham - " Purification of What? Why? " One's Self is ever pure ! Hence " purification of one's self " is not fitting into. It should not be a " desire " . Refer para 1 above. NOTHING TO BE DONE FOR SELF - is the cardinal principle of " Service " . In any case I will touch upon it. First let us grasp the " philosophy " - principles. An active deliberation on first the principles then on practice should make up ideal response. To be continued. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Dear Mr.George, Service to humanity alone is not complete service. Service to other beings that helps humanity around us is also important. Like feeding birds that keeps environment, watering plants that produces oxygen, being kind to pets within and outside home etc. Love thy neighbour (regard less of caste and creed - otherwise it could have been mentioned love thy Christian neighbour). Thou shall not cast eyes on neighbour` s wife, show the other cheek if you are slapped. All these are there in Bhagavat Geetha also in detail. Path to divinity and liberation is common, but told in differant aspects. The parable about a priest travelling coming across a needy person on roadside, is just neglected. Another priest crossing the same person did all the help to the person on road side. This is service. But there is a vital importance in Service. If one thinks in mind level somewhere in a corner that he is servicing, the whole serving becomes business and Not divine. The service done yesterday should not be in mind. It should be forgotten. The services done should be done without fame and name, surrendering it to God. The outcome of services by abuses and praises are to be treated Null and void. All these are there in Bagavath Geetha and in Old Testament, parables. If a little special treatment is shown to a Hindu brother or a Christian brother over another person, the service goes waste as far as divinity. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ Dear Abraham, I have taken the liberty of pasting in an extract from the latests post from Sadhak_insight by Swami Ramsukhdasji, you could go to : http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (English site) to connect. '.....He is with us. " Param shaanti, param anand. " (Eternal Peace, Eternal Bliss) This is the truth. Therefore simply accept – Bhagavaan (God) is mine. Serve all, but do not consider anyone to be your very own. Just like Mirabai says - " Mere toh Giridhar Gopal, duseraa ne koyi. " (Only Giridhar Gopal is Mine. There is None Other). Serve all and all will be happy if you serve them. But remain ever joyful belonging to only One.... " . The reason I mention swamiji is his Soul transcends all faiths it seems. Jesus to me seemed to be a Prayer to God in action. (all He did for mankind was in His Fathers name. Our Fathers name). In all Hearts is the need to serve others. The egos speak for Satan. Actually, service to others is the outcome of the desire for The Beloved, thus the focus on the Divine, creates the natural response to serve others, a prayer in action. Just a few thoughts. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ------------------------------ Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Right you are Abrahamji, service to humanity is service to God. How can it be otherwise? All humanity and animals, plants, environment, nature are manifest God! As Swamiji says, our body-mind-intellect are just to serve only. Whom do we serve? If one thinks deeply, one may see one serves oneself while serving apparent " others " . One gets rewarded right there and then in terms of inner satisfaction, joy, peace, provided Love dominates the service! The greatest of all services though is to know thyself like all saints and sages have done through their words of wisdom which uplift humanity as exemplified by Jesus, Mother Teresa, Ramakrishna Mission and the likes. Such wisdom as that which comes from God realization have been proven far more effective. It guides one to serve in most resourceful ways. Service without humility breeds pride hurting giver and recipients, both equally. Service must be considered a privilege, one must be thankful to those receiving help, so that one can be happy serving. Namaskara.............. Pratap Bhatt ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman Welcome Brother George ! Jee! Great question and great sentiment indeed. Let us take first the object of " service " . It can't be " purification " . Because any sentiment/bhava/ inner expression of " purification " necessarily and essentially reflects " continuation of connection with the subject matter of purification " . The subject matter of " purification " can only be " inert " and never be " sentient " . Hence object of service can only be " disconnection " with inert and never purification there of. Hence No ! No, Brother you should not serve to " purify " something or anything ! Nothing is dirty ! All is divine! If something is impure, it is not ours. On top of it, that impurity consists ONLY in fact of our " mineness " with that. Else that something is pure ab initio. You are pure ab initio. Impurity is your " connection " with the world, worldly people, and worldly objects and things only. The moment " mineness " with them is gone ( worldly people and things- including your body, mind, intellect etc) - impurity is gone- that impurity is gone which in fact never existed- only mineness existed ! Mineness is impurity! " Connection " is impurity. Because out of connection - desires and mineness arise! Hence once there is an importance inside of something, of some impurity somewhere needing purification , be that related to purification of money earned, or mind or intellect or body or worldly things or of servicee or of servicor- the karma is not " seva " (Service) ! Object of " seva " is always to " disconnect " one's self with the worldly possessions, desires, mineness, ego, cause and effect circle, karma and result circle - never to " connect " with them ! In fact when you do service- real service- you " disconnect " yourself with the worldly things, mind, intellect etc. Where is the question of " purification " ? When nothing is yours, and nothing is for you, to purify what ? Why? How? Bolo Jee! Respond Brother! We shall continue deliberating. I hope my first posting on the subject shall be received in right spirit by you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I am very happy to read these exchanges of spiritual ideas under the topic of " Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism " . I find them to be equally valuable to non-Hindus like me (I was born in a Christian family). It is wonderful to see that these noble thoughts are interpreted in an inclusive fashion for all religions -- dealing with right and wrong, duty, and truth. I was brought up with the ideals of service to humanity as service to God. As I understand there is nothing else above service. Any effort to " purify " oneself without service to others is meaningless. Will someone be able to provide the philosophy concerning " service to humanity " as it relates to our life itself? Abraham M. George ----------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Sure ! One never ceases to marvel at the subtle principles Swamiji manifested before the humanity at large and the ease with which He explained them and which He imparted to Sadhaks . The principles of Swamiji do not leave any scope for doubt, always establish their easyness to practice and make you " live " them. Thanks. Mira Dassji. Service in fact is always done by " bhavas " ( inner sentiments/expressions) . What is the proof that you have rendered selfless real service? Says Great Swamiji- When your bhava (inner sentiment/expression) of doing service is so powerful that you have awakened in the " servicee " himself a similar bhava of rendering service ! That is the yardstick ! Is it a tough yardstick? The " servicee " should get enthused to do the service !! Awakening of such sentiment in servicee is the yardstick/proof of perfect service rendered within the meaning of Gita ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Abraham, Do you see how much sincerity and service is rendered to your question, how much Divine Love. I personally would like to thank sadhak_insight for these current postings. They will steer you away from ego traps. I will tell you something about a Benedictine monk who was visiting 'The Sisters of Mercy' in India, he was talking to some of the sisters, and they pointed out a young man that had been brougt to them recently, they had cleaned him up and made him comfortable, but they said he was dying he may have already be dead, he went over and gently touch this poor souls shoulder, he was still alive he turned his head, and looked the monk in the eyes, the monk said, " I was looking into the eyes of God " . Abraham, whatever service you do from the heart, is to God, " Who ever feeds the least feeds ME... " With Respect and Divine Love. Mike Keenor ----------------- PRIOR POSTING Please read Swamiji's daily message over the last couple of days on Service. It provides a very different perspective than what most people ordinarily consider as serving/service to others. The links on Philosophy of Service / How to serve are - sadhaka/message/2159 sadhaka/message/2160 Thank you for this beautiful and timely posting. The gist of true service is when the other person - 1) Becomes happy in present and 2) Is benefited (uplifted, liberated) in the future. When these two things take place, the other person has been served. Service is not about physically doing something or giving money/material things. Service can be done by everyone without exceptions, as it does not require money or power or anything for that matter. By serving with money, it can lead to egoism and disrespect for the other person and cause disharmony. Also thinking that we can serve with money and material things, is giving more importance to money and things than true service. Very few are doing true service these days. By simply uniting with the other in their happy and sad moments, the other person will be served. If someone else serves better than you, let there be no jealousy. Rather be very happy in their ability to serve, as our work is done without any effort on our part. Please read again! So beautiful! It is very different philosophy on service than we have heard or practiced. It is more about the sentiments (bhaav) than about physically providing money or things. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Dear Abraham, Happy New Year 2009 to you and all your Family My Dear, Philosophy on Service to Humanity is a very interesting topic. Shri Gita as told by God Krishna to Mr. Arjuna is full of Service to Humanity. In Chapter 5 God Krishna Said that Karmayogis perform action while shaking off attachment(fruits) simply for the sake of self-purification. (Verse 11). And in Verse 12---- " Selfish motive ties down a man because he is attached to the fruit of action. In this way , you will find a lot of verses in this tiny scripture which is the sourse of all scriptures as God is as source of all origins. May God Bless You, Glory to God Krishna Mahesh Sharma - Vyasa after composing tons of scriptures concludes that he is able to summarize what is said in 10 million books in half a verse: shloka ardhena pravakshyaami (I will tell you in half a verse) yat uktam grantha koTibih (what is spoken in 10 million books) para upakaara puNyaaya (helping others is virtue) paapaaya para peeDanam (causing pain to others is sin) Koti Sreekrishna ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Jai Hanuman TWO CARDINAL PRINCIPLES One of the most essential care one should take while rendering " service " - is that neither you should consider the person to whom you are serving as " yours " nor you should consider the things with which you serve (say body, money, power etc) to him to be " yours " . Secondly, no desire , even the slighest, for reciprocation or returns from the servicee or God or any other - these two are cardinal principles of service ! Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- Hari Om 4 ... FORM OF SERVICE To serve - means to give pleasure/happiness to others. To every one. With no exceptions. Always. Without any expectations. As a matter of duty. This is yardstick. When you do good, you in fact are limiting yourself to a particular person/group. You can't to do good to all in the universe.. Limitations of time, worldly things, circumstances, distances don't let you do that. So what to do ? Answer is: Never cause harm/displeasure/sorrow to any one / any body/ anything in this universe. You then has done good to all without any exceptions. You have reached by your sentiment/bhava to all creatures. There is no limitation of worldly things, time etc now for you. Hence the real service to the entire universe is - not harming/hurting any one, any time, anywhere ! Here your " bhava " of not doing bad to anyone is " unlimited " . That gets you the element which is " unlimited " - Paramatma ! To be continued Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- In short, true Seva or Service should serve the service-giver i.e. take him to higher conciousness levels. Seva ho but sevek na ho! Sevek disappears (Service without service- giver being there...) Sushil Jain ---------------------------- Abraham If you want, you may read free online of " Bhagavat Gita As It Is " . Do a " Search " and you will find it. Hare Krishna Srinivas kolluri ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om A very good question. Indeed our Sanatan Dharma addresses the humanity at large irrespective of caste, creed, culture, colour, country, civilisation, sect, religion, belief etc. Welcome Brother Abraham ! " Philosophy concerning service to humanity as it relates to our life itself " is the central theme for deliberations. Let me get at macro level and explain " subtle " fundamental principles on the subject. (All compiled from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj) LITTLE KNOWN GREAT PRINCIPLES OF SWAMIJI ON " SEVA " - Service to humanity at large. In all the cases one must understand categorically that " service " (seva) is rendered always by sentiments/emotions/intentions - in other words by " bhava " . Service is done by " bhava " not by grant of worldly things. To give worldly things is not service. That even a shop keeper does. 1 ...Only that person can do " service " who does not need anything anytime for himself. Desire to do service, is as bad as is desire to get money, worldly things etc- because subtly the former is cause and latter the result. Hence as a principle - one should do service if an opportunity arises and if you have ability, but one should not have a " desire to do service and for that purpose to get worldly things, money etc " . There should be " bhava " (inner sentiments) not " desire " . Service is a bhava (inner sentiments) not a karma (action). 2... To become happy by making others happy or to keep a sentiment inside that " Because of me others are getting happy " or to desire even a little honor or praise, and become happy upon receipt of such praise or honor- this is in fact " consumption " (Bhog) and not " service " ! Because in such a case service gets converted into the consumption of pleasure and becomes for " self " . That creates importance of pleasure, money, worldly things etc and thereby arise " mineness " and " desire " . 3... " I am giving something to someone " - one who has this sentiment or bhava , he cannot understand and it is very difficult for someone to make him understand that the worldly things used for service in fact belonged only to the servicee. We have simply given him what belonged to him. Where then the question of any reciprocation/acknowledgement/superiority/obligation/ happiness/sorrow/pride/honor/etc arises ?? Do we expect anything when we wash our face with our hands? By the way " purification " is not the end result of real " service " . I shall touch upon it latter. But in the meantime may I ask you Brother Abraham - " Purification of What? Why? " One's Self is ever pure ! Hence " purification of one's self " is not fitting into. It should not be a " desire " . Refer para 1 above. NOTHING TO BE DONE FOR SELF - is the cardinal principle of " Service " . In any case I will touch upon it. First let us grasp the " philosophy " - principles. An active deliberation on first the principles then on practice should make up ideal response. To be continued. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Dear Mr.George, Service to humanity alone is not complete service. Service to other beings that helps humanity around us is also important. Like feeding birds that keeps environment, watering plants that produces oxygen, being kind to pets within and outside home etc. Love thy neighbour (regard less of caste and creed - otherwise it could have been mentioned love thy Christian neighbour). Thou shall not cast eyes on neighbour` s wife, show the other cheek if you are slapped. All these are there in Bhagavat Geetha also in detail. Path to divinity and liberation is common, but told in differant aspects. The parable about a priest travelling coming across a needy person on roadside, is just neglected. Another priest crossing the same person did all the help to the person on road side. This is service. But there is a vital importance in Service. If one thinks in mind level somewhere in a corner that he is servicing, the whole serving becomes business and Not divine. The service done yesterday should not be in mind. It should be forgotten. The services done should be done without fame and name, surrendering it to God. The outcome of services by abuses and praises are to be treated Null and void. All these are there in Bagavath Geetha and in Old Testament, parables. If a little special treatment is shown to a Hindu brother or a Christian brother over another person, the service goes waste as far as divinity. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ Dear Abraham, I have taken the liberty of pasting in an extract from the latests post from Sadhak_insight by Swami Ramsukhdasji, you could go to : http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (English site) to connect. '.....He is with us. " Param shaanti, param anand. " (Eternal Peace, Eternal Bliss) This is the truth. Therefore simply accept – Bhagavaan (God) is mine. Serve all, but do not consider anyone to be your very own. Just like Mirabai says - " Mere toh Giridhar Gopal, duseraa ne koyi. " (Only Giridhar Gopal is Mine. There is None Other). Serve all and all will be happy if you serve them. But remain ever joyful belonging to only One.... " . The reason I mention swamiji is his Soul transcends all faiths it seems. Jesus to me seemed to be a Prayer to God in action. (all He did for mankind was in His Fathers name. Our Fathers name). In all Hearts is the need to serve others. The egos speak for Satan. Actually, service to others is the outcome of the desire for The Beloved, thus the focus on the Divine, creates the natural response to serve others, a prayer in action. Just a few thoughts. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike Keenor ------------------------------ Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Right you are Abrahamji, service to humanity is service to God. How can it be otherwise? All humanity and animals, plants, environment, nature are manifest God! As Swamiji says, our body-mind-intellect are just to serve only. Whom do we serve? If one thinks deeply, one may see one serves oneself while serving apparent " others " . One gets rewarded right there and then in terms of inner satisfaction, joy, peace, provided Love dominates the service! The greatest of all services though is to know thyself like all saints and sages have done through their words of wisdom which uplift humanity as exemplified by Jesus, Mother Teresa, Ramakrishna Mission and the likes. Such wisdom as that which comes from God realization have been proven far more effective. It guides one to serve in most resourceful ways. Service without humility breeds pride hurting giver and recipients, both equally. Service must be considered a privilege, one must be thankful to those receiving help, so that one can be happy serving. Namaskara.............. Pratap Bhatt ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman Welcome Brother George ! Jee! Great question and great sentiment indeed. Let us take first the object of " service " . It can't be " purification " . Because any sentiment/bhava/ inner expression of " purification " necessarily and essentially reflects " continuation of connection with the subject matter of purification " . The subject matter of " purification " can only be " inert " and never be " sentient " . Hence object of service can only be " disconnection " with inert and never purification there of. Hence No ! No, Brother you should not serve to " purify " something or anything ! Nothing is dirty ! All is divine! If something is impure, it is not ours. On top of it, that impurity consists ONLY in fact of our " mineness " with that. Else that something is pure ab initio. You are pure ab initio. Impurity is your " connection " with the world, worldly people, and worldly objects and things only. The moment " mineness " with them is gone ( worldly people and things- including your body, mind, intellect etc) - impurity is gone- that impurity is gone which in fact never existed- only mineness existed ! Mineness is impurity! " Connection " is impurity. Because out of connection - desires and mineness arise! Hence once there is an importance inside of something, of some impurity somewhere needing purification , be that related to purification of money earned, or mind or intellect or body or worldly things or of servicee or of servicor- the karma is not " seva " (Service) ! Object of " seva " is always to " disconnect " one's self with the worldly possessions, desires, mineness, ego, cause and effect circle, karma and result circle - never to " connect " with them ! In fact when you do service- real service- you " disconnect " yourself with the worldly things, mind, intellect etc. Where is the question of " purification " ? When nothing is yours, and nothing is for you, to purify what ? Why? How? Bolo Jee! Respond Brother! We shall continue deliberating. I hope my first posting on the subject shall be received in right spirit by you. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------------------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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