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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot,

Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara

prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's

Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be

understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else -

" Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma.

This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that

too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that

extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest.

Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding

everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself,

(in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings

supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)!

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

 

-----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish))

Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now

there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy.

But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT

and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one.

 

2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and

13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing

as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s

single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that

the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth

of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of

Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is

equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu.

 

(2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as

said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power

dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But

for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for

Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------

 

Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari

Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you.

 

8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being.

Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual;

it is one's real identity.

Karma is every activity associated with

origin, sustenance, and destruction.

 

Think of Atman as a TV set,

Brahman as the Sattelite provider.

There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets.

Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same,

depending on the r each TV may be

playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station.

 

8-4

The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence "

because all beings are perishable;

they come and go.

The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit.

Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña

and it is I who resides in the body.

See 9:16 and 16:18

 

7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and

strive for freedom from old age and death †"

they will know about

brahman, atman, and karma.

 

7-30 Those who have a stable mind and

know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause

are awake to the supreme reality

even at the moment of their death.

 

It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active

life, will prevail at the time of death.

 

 

KST (Koti Sreekrishna)

-----------------------

 

 

Chapter 7 Sloka 28

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN:

29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking

refuge in Me ---

They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self

and all action.

Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their

wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher

contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM

OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to

discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However,

this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal

that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution.

Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural

modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given

manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such

modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of

all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken

happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in

his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications

with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is

indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. "

Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize

his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self

in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the

Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is

to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self

everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this

stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF,

COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. "

That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in

worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when

Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All-

pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE

PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL

ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of

experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and

complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a

perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is

the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an

individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and

efficient in all activities.

CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN

OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES:

....to be continued

 

 

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

 

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

 

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

 

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

 

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

 

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

 

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

 

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued

(From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

--------------------------

Jai OM

It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group

directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C

Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina

metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After

all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked

in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny

the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy.

Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain.

 

Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion.

 

Dev Kumar

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Response to Devji Kumar -

We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as

these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out

of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the

entire group will benefit from such explanations and

understanding.

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is

saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words

The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and

therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation

which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is

Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The

real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the

Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of

the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language

appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol

which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the

infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the

panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed

as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself

a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such

creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three

things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings

called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body

is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected

with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly

Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and

alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly

polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-

conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original

nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught

sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This

happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream

in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that

of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage

or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with

our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi

avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is

able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}.

Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has

talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus

there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman,

Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt,

Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and

may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning

about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and

therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further

enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the

Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations.

May I tender my concievements on this.

Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view.

Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA

Adhyatm= Our existance

Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out

from you

Adhibhut= Physical body

Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God

Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body.

Hope this helps

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

----------------------

 

Dear sadaks,

 

Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you

do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do

anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you,

holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to

know what to do)!

 

Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through

Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot

believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much

later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about

his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last

day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first,

he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to

know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one

onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom.

Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could

not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died.

Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by

Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the

word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to

be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are

doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood

automatically.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

Friends

----------------------------

 

1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest.

He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other

friends.

 

2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly,

Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to

the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle,

'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here

Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is

Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does

not contain anything from Jainism.

 

3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio

form. You may search " yatharthgeeta "

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot,

Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara

prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's

Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be

understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else -

" Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma.

This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that

too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that

extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest.

Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding

everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself,

(in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings

supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)!

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

 

-----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish))

Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now

there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy.

But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT

and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one.

 

2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and

13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing

as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s

single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that

the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth

of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of

Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is

equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu.

 

(2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as

said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power

dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But

for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for

Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------

 

Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari

Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you.

 

8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being.

Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual;

it is one's real identity.

Karma is every activity associated with

origin, sustenance, and destruction.

 

Think of Atman as a TV set,

Brahman as the Sattelite provider.

There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets.

Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same,

depending on the r each TV may be

playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station.

 

8-4

The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence "

because all beings are perishable;

they come and go.

The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit.

Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña

and it is I who resides in the body.

See 9:16 and 16:18

 

7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and

strive for freedom from old age and death †"

they will know about

brahman, atman, and karma.

 

7-30 Those who have a stable mind and

know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause

are awake to the supreme reality

even at the moment of their death.

 

It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active

life, will prevail at the time of death.

 

 

KST (Koti Sreekrishna)

-----------------------

 

 

Chapter 7 Sloka 28

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN:

29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking

refuge in Me ---

They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self

and all action.

Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their

wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher

contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM

OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to

discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However,

this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal

that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution.

Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural

modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given

manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such

modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of

all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken

happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in

his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications

with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is

indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. "

Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize

his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self

in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the

Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is

to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self

everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this

stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF,

COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. "

That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in

worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when

Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All-

pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE

PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL

ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of

experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and

complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a

perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is

the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an

individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and

efficient in all activities.

CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN

OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES:

....to be continued

 

 

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

 

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

 

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

 

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

 

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

 

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

 

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

 

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued

(From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

--------------------------

Jai OM

It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group

directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C

Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina

metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After

all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked

in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny

the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy.

Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain.

 

Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion.

 

Dev Kumar

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Response to Devji Kumar -

We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as

these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out

of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the

entire group will benefit from such explanations and

understanding.

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is

saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words

The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and

therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation

which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is

Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The

real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the

Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of

the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language

appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol

which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the

infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the

panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed

as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself

a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such

creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three

things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings

called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body

is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected

with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly

Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and

alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly

polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-

conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original

nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught

sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This

happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream

in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that

of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage

or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with

our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi

avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is

able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}.

Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has

talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus

there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman,

Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt,

Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and

may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning

about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and

therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further

enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the

Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Respected All,

 

Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep

meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy-

and-toymaker and TV channel examples.

 

With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify

aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came

out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very

crisp in his explanation.

Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also

known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years

back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book.

Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus:

Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29)

utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30)

tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31)

arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32)

guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38)

dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41)

tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42)

if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let

me know.

With regards

Dev Kumar

 

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

 

My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I

greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to

expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other

sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am

reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha

Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am

enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other

sadhaks to avail such benefits.

 

Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in

three verses.

 

Chapter 2 : 56

 

duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah

vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate

 

chapter 4 : 10

 

vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah

bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah

 

chapter 8 : 11

 

yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah

yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye

 

Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me

give some samples.

 

Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah|

Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda

Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150)

 

Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do

with the karma refreed in Karma yoga.

 

AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti|

TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya

Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44).

 

The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha,

krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts.

 

dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA|

nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha||

(Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha)

 

Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra

says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43)

 

Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh |

Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE ||

 

Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha:

 

ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah|

SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh||

 

samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah|

tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham||

 

There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma

chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma

particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One

should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One

should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather

than doer and enjoyer.

 

Jai OM

----------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations.

May I tender my concievements on this.

Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view.

Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA

Adhyatm= Our existance

Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out

from you

Adhibhut= Physical body

Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God

Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body.

Hope this helps

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

----------------------

 

Dear sadaks,

 

Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you

do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do

anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you,

holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to

know what to do)!

 

Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through

Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot

believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much

later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about

his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last

day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first,

he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to

know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one

onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom.

Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could

not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died.

Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by

Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the

word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to

be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are

doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood

automatically.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

Friends

----------------------------

 

1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest.

He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other

friends.

 

2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly,

Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to

the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle,

'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here

Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is

Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does

not contain anything from Jainism.

 

3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio

form. You may search " yatharthgeeta "

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot,

Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara

prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's

Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be

understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else -

" Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma.

This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that

too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that

extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest.

Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding

everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself,

(in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings

supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)!

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

 

-----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish))

Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now

there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy.

But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT

and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one.

 

2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and

13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing

as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s

single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that

the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth

of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of

Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is

equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu.

 

(2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as

said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power

dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But

for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for

Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------

 

Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari

Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you.

 

8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being.

Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual;

it is one's real identity.

Karma is every activity associated with

origin, sustenance, and destruction.

 

Think of Atman as a TV set,

Brahman as the Sattelite provider.

There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets.

Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same,

depending on the r each TV may be

playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station.

 

8-4

The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence "

because all beings are perishable;

they come and go.

The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit.

Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña

and it is I who resides in the body.

See 9:16 and 16:18

 

7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and

strive for freedom from old age and death †"

they will know about

brahman, atman, and karma.

 

7-30 Those who have a stable mind and

know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause

are awake to the supreme reality

even at the moment of their death.

 

It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active

life, will prevail at the time of death.

 

 

KST (Koti Sreekrishna)

-----------------------

 

 

Chapter 7 Sloka 28

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN:

29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking

refuge in Me ---

They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self

and all action.

Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their

wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher

contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM

OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to

discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However,

this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal

that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution.

Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural

modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given

manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such

modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of

all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken

happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in

his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications

with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is

indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. "

Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize

his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self

in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the

Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is

to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self

everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this

stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF,

COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. "

That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in

worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when

Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All-

pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE

PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL

ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of

experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and

complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a

perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is

the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an

individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and

efficient in all activities.

CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN

OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES:

....to be continued

 

 

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

 

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

 

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

 

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

 

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

 

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

 

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

 

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued

(From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

--------------------------

Jai OM

It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group

directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C

Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina

metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After

all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked

in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny

the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy.

Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain.

 

Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion.

 

Dev Kumar

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Response to Devji Kumar -

We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as

these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out

of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the

entire group will benefit from such explanations and

understanding.

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is

saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words

The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and

therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation

which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is

Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The

real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the

Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of

the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language

appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol

which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the

infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the

panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed

as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself

a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such

creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three

things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings

called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body

is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected

with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly

Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and

alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly

polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-

conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original

nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught

sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This

happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream

in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that

of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage

or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with

our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi

avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is

able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}.

Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has

talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus

there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman,

Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt,

Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and

may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning

about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and

therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further

enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the

Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Partial translation from Bhaktivedanta Vedabase to support

explanation of Gita 8:3 and 8:4 -

 

TRANSLATION

 

The gigantic universal form is represented by three, ten and one in

the sense that He is the body and the mind and the senses, He is the

dynamic force for all movements by ten kinds of life energy, and He

is the one heart where life energy is generated.

 

PURPORT

 

In Bhagavad-Gita; (7.4-5) it is stated that the eight elements earth,

water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego are all

products of the Lord's inferior energy, whereas the living entities,

who are seen to utilize the inferior energy, originally belong to the

superior energy, the internal potency of the Lord. The eight inferior

energies work grossly and subtly, whereas the superior energy works

as the central generating force. This is experienced in the human

body. The gross elements, namely, earth, etc., form the external

gross body and are like a coat, whereas the subtle mind and false ego

act like the inner clothing of the body.

 

The movements of the body are first generated from the heart, and all

the activities of the body are made possible by the senses, powered

by the ten kinds of air within the body. The ten kinds of air are

described as follows: The main air passing through the nose in

breathing is called praana. The air which passes through the rectum

as evacuated bodily air is called apana. The air which adjusts the

foodstuff within the stomach and which sometimes sounds as belching

is called samaana. The air which passes through the throat and the

stoppage of which constitutes suffocation is called the udaana air.

Aid the total air which circulates throughout the entire body is

called the vyaana air. Subtler than these five airs, there are others

also. That which facilitates the opening of the eyes, mouth, etc., is

called naaga air. The air which increases appetite is called krekara

air. The air which helps contraction is called kurma air. The air

which helps relaxation by opening the mouth wide (in yawning) is

called devadatta air, and the air which helps sustenance is called

dhanañjaya air.

 

All these airs are generated from the center of the heart, which is

one only. This central energy is superior energy of the Lord, who is

seated within the heart with the soul of the body, who acts under the

guidance of the Lord. This is explained in Bhagavad-Gita; (15.15) as

follows:

 

sarvasya caaham; hrydi sannivishtho

mattah smritir jñaanam apohanamca

vedaisca sarvair aham eva vedyo

vedaanta-krid veda-vid eva caaham

 

The complete central force is generated from the heart by the Lord,

who is seated there and who helps the conditioned soul in remembering

and forgetting. The conditioned state is due to the soul's

forgetfulness of his relationship of subordination to the Lord. One

who wants to continue to forget the Lord is helped by the Lord to

forget Him birth after birth, but one who remembers Him, by dint of

association with a devotee of the Lord, is helped to remember Him

more and more. Thus the conditioned soul can ultimately go back home,

back to Godhead.

 

This process of transcendental help by the Lord is described in

Bhagavad-gita; (10.10) as follows:

 

teshaam satata-yuktaanaam

bhajataam priti-purvakam

dadaami buddhi-yogam tam

yena maam upayaanti te

 

The buddhi-yoga process of self-realization with intelligence

transcendental to the mind (devotional service) can alone elevate one

from the conditioned state of material entanglement in the cosmic

construction. The conditioned state of the living entity is like that

of a person who is within the depths of a huge mechanical

arrangement. The mental speculators can reach the point of buddhi-

yoga after many, many lifetimes of speculation, but the intelligent

person who begins from the platform of intelligence above the mind

makes rapid progress in self-realization. Because the buddhi-yoga

process entails no fear of deterioration or retrogression at any

time, it is the guaranteed path to self-realization, as confirmed in

Bhagavad-gita; (2.40). The mental speculators cannot understand that

the two birds sitting in one tree are the soul and the Supersoul.

The individual soul eats the fruit of the tree, while the other bird

does not eat the fruit but only observes the activities of the

eating bird. Without attachment, the witnessing bird helps the fruit-

eating bird perform fruitful activities. One who cannot understand

this difference between the soul and the Supersoul, or God and the

living entities, is certainly still in the entanglement of the

cosmic machinery and thus must still await the time when he will be

free from bondage. With regards

Dev

(Dr. C. Devakumar)

 

-----------------------------

Many words used in Gita are the same or similar in meaning. Since

Gita is trying to reach us to the ultimate realisation Akshara or OUM

or Oneness or InfinIte, we should concentrate on that instead of

getting distracted by the various similar words used. Moreover,

trying to differentiate and accurately interpret the meanings of

these various words used in a societal context of over 2000-3000

years ago would be futile to in today's context. As for me, I try to

understand all these words in my own way to enrich my own

understanding of the ultimate truth of Infinite, indestructible

Oneness of each and everything in the Creation. So for me, verse 3

means: " Everything arises from and remains in the process of

transformation in the medium of that Infinite, indestructible Oneness

that I call and try to realize as Param ( the Ultimate), Aksharam

(the Oneness) and Brahman (the Indestructible Brihat Mana).

Similarly, I try tO understand verse 4 as: I and anything else in

this creation that I know and do not know Originates from and

transforms in the Adi (the unique, all comprehensive Source) that I

call and try to realize as AdiBhootam (Origin/ Source),

Adivaidaivatam (the ultimate source, the ultimate God)which is

greater than anything else, creates,contains and sustains everything

else. My only goal is to be alert as many moments of life as I can

to this Reality of Infinite, Indestructible Oneness.

My interpretations and thoughts may not conform to educated,

knowledgable ones, but my effort is sincere.

Hari Om.

basu debsen

-----------------------------

 

 

 

=================================================================

PRIOR POSTING

Respected All,

 

Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep

meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy-

and-toymaker and TV channel examples.

 

With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify

aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came

out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very

crisp in his explanation.

Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also

known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years

back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book.

Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus:

Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29)

utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30)

tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31)

arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32)

guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38)

dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41)

tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42)

if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let

me know.

With regards

Dev Kumar

 

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

 

My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I

greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to

expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other

sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am

reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha

Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am

enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other

sadhaks to avail such benefits.

 

Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in

three verses.

 

Chapter 2 : 56

 

duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah

vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate

 

chapter 4 : 10

 

vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah

bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah

 

chapter 8 : 11

 

yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah

yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye

 

Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me

give some samples.

 

Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah|

Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda

Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150)

 

Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do

with the karma refreed in Karma yoga.

 

AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti|

TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya

Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44).

 

The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha,

krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts.

 

dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA|

nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha||

(Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha)

 

Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra

says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43)

 

Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh |

Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE ||

 

Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha:

 

ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah|

SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh||

 

samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah|

tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham||

 

There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma

chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma

particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One

should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One

should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather

than doer and enjoyer.

 

Jai OM

----------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations.

May I tender my concievements on this.

Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view.

Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA

Adhyatm= Our existance

Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out

from you

Adhibhut= Physical body

Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God

Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body.

Hope this helps

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

----------------------

 

Dear sadaks,

 

Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you

do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do

anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you,

holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to

know what to do)!

 

Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through

Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot

believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much

later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about

his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last

day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first,

he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to

know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one

onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom.

Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could

not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died.

Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by

Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the

word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to

be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are

doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood

automatically.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

Friends

----------------------------

 

1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest.

He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other

friends.

 

2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly,

Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to

the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle,

'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here

Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is

Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does

not contain anything from Jainism.

 

3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio

form. You may search " yatharthgeeta "

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot,

Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara

prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's

Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be

understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else -

" Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma.

This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that

too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that

extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest.

Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding

everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself,

(in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings

supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)!

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

 

-----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish))

Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now

there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy.

But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT

and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one.

 

2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and

13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing

as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s

single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that

the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth

of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of

Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is

equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu.

 

(2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as

said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power

dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But

for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for

Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------

 

Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari

Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you.

 

8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being.

Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual;

it is one's real identity.

Karma is every activity associated with

origin, sustenance, and destruction.

 

Think of Atman as a TV set,

Brahman as the Sattelite provider.

There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets.

Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same,

depending on the r each TV may be

playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station.

 

8-4

The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence "

because all beings are perishable;

they come and go.

The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit.

Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña

and it is I who resides in the body.

See 9:16 and 16:18

 

7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and

strive for freedom from old age and death †"

they will know about

brahman, atman, and karma.

 

7-30 Those who have a stable mind and

know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause

are awake to the supreme reality

even at the moment of their death.

 

It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active

life, will prevail at the time of death.

 

 

KST (Koti Sreekrishna)

-----------------------

 

 

Chapter 7 Sloka 28

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN:

29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking

refuge in Me ---

They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self

and all action.

Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their

wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher

contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM

OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to

discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However,

this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal

that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution.

Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural

modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given

manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such

modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of

all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken

happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in

his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications

with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is

indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. "

Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize

his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self

in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the

Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is

to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self

everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this

stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF,

COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. "

That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in

worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when

Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All-

pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE

PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL

ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of

experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and

complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a

perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is

the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an

individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and

efficient in all activities.

CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN

OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES:

....to be continued

 

 

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

 

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

 

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

 

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

 

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

 

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

 

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

 

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued

(From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

--------------------------

Jai OM

It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group

directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C

Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina

metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After

all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked

in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny

the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy.

Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain.

 

Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion.

 

Dev Kumar

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Response to Devji Kumar -

We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as

these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out

of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the

entire group will benefit from such explanations and

understanding.

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is

saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words

The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and

therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation

which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is

Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The

real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the

Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of

the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language

appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol

which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the

infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the

panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed

as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself

a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such

creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three

things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings

called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body

is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected

with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly

Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and

alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly

polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-

conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original

nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught

sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This

happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream

in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that

of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage

or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with

our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi

avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is

able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}.

Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has

talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus

there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman,

Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt,

Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and

may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning

about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and

therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further

enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the

Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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Respected All,

 

I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of

the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter.

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka

of the 7th Chapter.

 

I have been reading time and again these lines and their

interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and

Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of

these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the

other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints.

Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines.

 

Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and

logistic expressions.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

 

----------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Ram Ram,

 

First one has to understand the word by word simple meaning of any

GITA verse before we get into an explanation and great subjective

explanations. Here are the simple word by word meaning as well as a

simple translation of these two difficult verses based on American/

International Gita Society's translation by Dr. Ramananda Prasad for

your discussion and further comments:

 

Verses 8.03

 

akshram brahma paramam = param brahma is akshara or imperishable

svabhavo adhyaatm uchyate = nature (svabhava) or powers of brahma is

called adhyaatma

 

bhoota bhaavodbhavakaro = urge (or bhaava) of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation (udbhavakaro) of the living entities (bhootas)

 

visargah karma sanjnitah = is called karma

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or Brahma. Basic nature, powers, and

expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhyaatma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Verse 8.04

 

adhibhootam ksharo bhaava = five basic elements (adhibhoota or

kshara or changeable) is called adhibhoota

 

purushacha adhidaivatam = Various expansions of the Supreme Being

(such as Narayana, Mahavishnu etc.) are called Divine Beings or

adhidaiva

 

adhiyajnoham evaatra = I, the Supreme being, am adhiyajna or

enjoyer of all sacrifices

 

dehe dehabhritaam vara = in the body, O, Arjuna

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as

the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

hariom roy

 

-----------------------------

 

Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

and,

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

Hari Om.

Krushna is the creator of this Universe.

He is omni present.

He is in Nirguna.

He is a high voltage current

that penetrates through each and every jeevathma.

Krushna is in Nirguna but rajas,thamas and sathvik

are attached to HIm.

It is known as Vishnumaya.

He is the Current between the Prackruthi and the Jeevathma.

THe Jeevathma is known as ADHYATHMA.

Jeevathma is completely governed by thrigunas

and thus engaged in doing KARMA.

KRushna is like the cream in the milk

He is present in every atom of this universe.

He is the creator,he is the saviour and he is the destroyer.

Evrything is a part and parcel of VISHNU MAYA!!!!

 

With regards,

Usha Sridhar.

 

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Partial translation from Bhaktivedanta Vedabase to support

explanation of Gita 8:3 and 8:4 -

 

TRANSLATION

 

The gigantic universal form is represented by three, ten and one in

the sense that He is the body and the mind and the senses, He is the

dynamic force for all movements by ten kinds of life energy, and He

is the one heart where life energy is generated.

 

PURPORT

 

In Bhagavad-Gita; (7.4-5) it is stated that the eight elements earth,

water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego are all

products of the Lord's inferior energy, whereas the living entities,

who are seen to utilize the inferior energy, originally belong to the

superior energy, the internal potency of the Lord. The eight inferior

energies work grossly and subtly, whereas the superior energy works

as the central generating force. This is experienced in the human

body. The gross elements, namely, earth, etc., form the external

gross body and are like a coat, whereas the subtle mind and false ego

act like the inner clothing of the body.

 

The movements of the body are first generated from the heart, and all

the activities of the body are made possible by the senses, powered

by the ten kinds of air within the body. The ten kinds of air are

described as follows: The main air passing through the nose in

breathing is called praana. The air which passes through the rectum

as evacuated bodily air is called apana. The air which adjusts the

foodstuff within the stomach and which sometimes sounds as belching

is called samaana. The air which passes through the throat and the

stoppage of which constitutes suffocation is called the udaana air.

Aid the total air which circulates throughout the entire body is

called the vyaana air. Subtler than these five airs, there are others

also. That which facilitates the opening of the eyes, mouth, etc., is

called naaga air. The air which increases appetite is called krekara

air. The air which helps contraction is called kurma air. The air

which helps relaxation by opening the mouth wide (in yawning) is

called devadatta air, and the air which helps sustenance is called

dhanañjaya air.

 

All these airs are generated from the center of the heart, which is

one only. This central energy is superior energy of the Lord, who is

seated within the heart with the soul of the body, who acts under the

guidance of the Lord. This is explained in Bhagavad-Gita; (15.15) as

follows:

 

sarvasya caaham; hrydi sannivishtho

mattah smritir jñaanam apohanamca

vedaisca sarvair aham eva vedyo

vedaanta-krid veda-vid eva caaham

 

The complete central force is generated from the heart by the Lord,

who is seated there and who helps the conditioned soul in remembering

and forgetting. The conditioned state is due to the soul's

forgetfulness of his relationship of subordination to the Lord. One

who wants to continue to forget the Lord is helped by the Lord to

forget Him birth after birth, but one who remembers Him, by dint of

association with a devotee of the Lord, is helped to remember Him

more and more. Thus the conditioned soul can ultimately go back home,

back to Godhead.

 

This process of transcendental help by the Lord is described in

Bhagavad-gita; (10.10) as follows:

 

teshaam satata-yuktaanaam

bhajataam priti-purvakam

dadaami buddhi-yogam tam

yena maam upayaanti te

 

The buddhi-yoga process of self-realization with intelligence

transcendental to the mind (devotional service) can alone elevate one

from the conditioned state of material entanglement in the cosmic

construction. The conditioned state of the living entity is like that

of a person who is within the depths of a huge mechanical

arrangement. The mental speculators can reach the point of buddhi-

yoga after many, many lifetimes of speculation, but the intelligent

person who begins from the platform of intelligence above the mind

makes rapid progress in self-realization. Because the buddhi-yoga

process entails no fear of deterioration or retrogression at any

time, it is the guaranteed path to self-realization, as confirmed in

Bhagavad-gita; (2.40). The mental speculators cannot understand that

the two birds sitting in one tree are the soul and the Supersoul.

The individual soul eats the fruit of the tree, while the other bird

does not eat the fruit but only observes the activities of the

eating bird. Without attachment, the witnessing bird helps the fruit-

eating bird perform fruitful activities. One who cannot understand

this difference between the soul and the Supersoul, or God and the

living entities, is certainly still in the entanglement of the

cosmic machinery and thus must still await the time when he will be

free from bondage. With regards

Dev

(Dr. C. Devakumar)

 

-----------------------------

Many words used in Gita are the same or similar in meaning. Since

Gita is trying to reach us to the ultimate realisation Akshara or OUM

or Oneness or InfinIte, we should concentrate on that instead of

getting distracted by the various similar words used. Moreover,

trying to differentiate and accurately interpret the meanings of

these various words used in a societal context of over 2000-3000

years ago would be futile to in today's context. As for me, I try to

understand all these words in my own way to enrich my own

understanding of the ultimate truth of Infinite, indestructible

Oneness of each and everything in the Creation. So for me, verse 3

means: " Everything arises from and remains in the process of

transformation in the medium of that Infinite, indestructible Oneness

that I call and try to realize as Param ( the Ultimate), Aksharam

(the Oneness) and Brahman (the Indestructible Brihat Mana).

Similarly, I try tO understand verse 4 as: I and anything else in

this creation that I know and do not know Originates from and

transforms in the Adi (the unique, all comprehensive Source) that I

call and try to realize as AdiBhootam (Origin/ Source),

Adivaidaivatam (the ultimate source, the ultimate God)which is

greater than anything else, creates,contains and sustains everything

else. My only goal is to be alert as many moments of life as I can

to this Reality of Infinite, Indestructible Oneness.

My interpretations and thoughts may not conform to educated,

knowledgable ones, but my effort is sincere.

Hari Om.

basu debsen

-----------------------------

 

 

 

=================================================================

PRIOR POSTING

Respected All,

 

Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep

meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy-

and-toymaker and TV channel examples.

 

With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks.

 

Kind regards,

Suresh C Sharma

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify

aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came

out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very

crisp in his explanation.

Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also

known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years

back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book.

Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus:

Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29)

utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30)

tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31)

arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32)

guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38)

dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41)

tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42)

if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let

me know.

With regards

Dev Kumar

 

----------------------

Dear All Sadaks

 

My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I

greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to

expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other

sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am

reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha

Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am

enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other

sadhaks to avail such benefits.

 

Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in

three verses.

 

Chapter 2 : 56

 

duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah

vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate

 

chapter 4 : 10

 

vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah

bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah

 

chapter 8 : 11

 

yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah

yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye

 

Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me

give some samples.

 

Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah|

Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda

Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150)

 

Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do

with the karma refreed in Karma yoga.

 

AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti|

TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya

Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44).

 

The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha,

krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts.

 

dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA|

nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha||

(Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha)

 

Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra

says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43)

 

Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh |

Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE ||

 

Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha:

 

ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah|

SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh||

 

samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah|

tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham||

 

There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma

chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma

particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One

should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One

should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather

than doer and enjoyer.

 

Jai OM

----------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priy Sadhak

I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations.

May I tender my concievements on this.

Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view.

Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA

Adhyatm= Our existance

Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out

from you

Adhibhut= Physical body

Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God

Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body.

Hope this helps

 

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

 

----------------------

 

Dear sadaks,

 

Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you

do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do

anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you,

holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to

know what to do)!

 

Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through

Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot

believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much

later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about

his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last

day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first,

he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to

know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one

onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom.

Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could

not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died.

Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by

Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the

word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to

be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are

doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood

automatically.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

Friends

----------------------------

 

1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest.

He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other

friends.

 

2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly,

Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to

the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle,

'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here

Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is

Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does

not contain anything from Jainism.

 

3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio

form. You may search " yatharthgeeta "

 

Ashok Jain

 

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot,

Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara

prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's

Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be

understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else -

" Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma.

This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that

too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that

extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest.

Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding

everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself,

(in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings

supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)!

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

 

-----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish))

Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now

there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy.

But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT

and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one.

 

2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and

13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing

as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s

single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that

the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth

of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of

Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is

equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu.

 

(2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as

said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power

dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But

for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for

Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------

 

Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari

Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you.

 

8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being.

Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual;

it is one's real identity.

Karma is every activity associated with

origin, sustenance, and destruction.

 

Think of Atman as a TV set,

Brahman as the Sattelite provider.

There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets.

Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same,

depending on the r each TV may be

playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station.

 

8-4

The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence "

because all beings are perishable;

they come and go.

The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit.

Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña

and it is I who resides in the body.

See 9:16 and 16:18

 

7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and

strive for freedom from old age and death †"

they will know about

brahman, atman, and karma.

 

7-30 Those who have a stable mind and

know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause

are awake to the supreme reality

even at the moment of their death.

 

It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active

life, will prevail at the time of death.

 

 

KST (Koti Sreekrishna)

-----------------------

 

 

Chapter 7 Sloka 28

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN:

29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking

refuge in Me ---

They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self

and all action.

Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their

wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher

contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM

OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to

discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However,

this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal

that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution.

Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural

modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given

manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such

modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of

all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken

happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in

his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications

with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is

indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. "

Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize

his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self

in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the

Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is

to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self

everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this

stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF,

COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. "

That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in

worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when

Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All-

pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE

PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL

ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of

experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and

complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a

perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is

the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an

individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and

efficient in all activities.

CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN

OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES:

....to be continued

 

 

TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE,

THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN:

 

28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end,

who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and

steadfast in vows, worship Me.

 

" MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO

CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be

correctly understood.

 

Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the

tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an

error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and-

intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the

grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values

entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a

sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time

and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant

partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life

spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to

comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way

of the sinful.

 

Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind

and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of

thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the

vasanas.

 

To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the

grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that

he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a

contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions,

feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All

introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, "

would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the

patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new

divine designs are created therein.

 

Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its

negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE

PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a

single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the

Self.

 

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS

MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY

LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued

(From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

--------------------------

Jai OM

It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group

directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C

Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina

metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After

all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked

in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny

the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy.

Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain.

 

Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion.

 

Dev Kumar

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Response to Devji Kumar -

We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as

these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out

of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the

entire group will benefit from such explanations and

understanding.

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

 

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita

Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If

they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you.

Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs

too !

 

Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 .

Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar

Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education

relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time

renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting

this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin

this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation

made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " -

means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma

to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma

as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. .

 

Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World

(Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6

Qs/elements !

 

Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these

terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma

is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is

water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this

Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various

creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " (

Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining-

water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of

Ice.

 

Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes

different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice

etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma !

 

Vasudevah Sarvam !!

 

Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two

forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes

(sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two

forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively.

The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world

(creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter.

Matter+ Activity - World !

 

All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All

to prove Vasudevah Sarvam.

 

As simple as that !!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------

 

Dear Sadaks,

Can it be like this:

1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and

everlasting.

2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and

impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around,

without change from Anandmaya.

3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one

cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to

result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not

out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one

is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma

Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan

said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects

of war goes NOT to Arjuna.

4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi

Kaalam (Much longer time)

5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause

for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation.

6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not

that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said

by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the

equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How

does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name

knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath.

Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and

when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana,

had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas

came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also

appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by

Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran.

Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu

Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since

he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come.

He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I

would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can

burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of

demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly

because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for

anger etc but not HIS name.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------

 

Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma,

 

In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is

saying that

Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words

The Absolute

Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and

therefore it is

Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation

which are the

characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is

Adhyatma and

this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The

real nature

of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita -

" Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the

Supreme Element

{param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of

the " Aksharam Brhma

Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka.

 

The one which is infinite, can it be described by language

appropriately. We all

know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol

which enables

us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the

infinite to

remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the

panorama of the

universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed

as " Aum " .

 

The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself

a divine act

and the system of self administration and governance of such

creation is called

" karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three

things -

imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings

called the

" Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body

is called

Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected

with the

karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly

Adhyatma is

the nature of each individual.

 

Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and

alertness is

one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly

polluted by so

called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-

conscious

state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original

nature -

" svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught

sometimes speak

such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This

happens

because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream

in our sleep

we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that

of " unconsciousness "

{achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage

or state is

our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with

our own true

being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi

avastha " which

is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is

able to attain

this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}.

Yogis and

Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has

talked about

" Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus

there are

four levels of our Consciousness :-

 

1. Alertness

 

2. Sub-conscious state

 

3. Unconscious state; and

 

4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}.

 

One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman,

Its nature

is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana.

This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt,

Chitta and

Anandam.

 

Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and

may be

tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning

about the 4th

Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and

therefore whatever I

have given above is incomplete.

 

Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further

enlightened

through the interactive communication in order to realize the

Supreme and be in

communion with It.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

Bhagirat Merchant

----------------------

Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements;

the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense-

organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all

perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know

Me.

Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of

the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a

perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets

behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect

(Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions ---

physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place.

The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient

to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a

dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is

concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his

emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he

has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the

world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of

Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but

he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a

master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with.

He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of

his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To

him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of-

Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds,

both within and without.

In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO

KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the

destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days

to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did.

These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves

explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the

following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional

methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together.

In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and

the theme of the following chapter.

THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM

Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the

time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection,

divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged

from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be

resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie

concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter,

Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic

perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful

seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It

is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE

YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. "

Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that

knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in

an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom.

Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The

philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the

instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which

knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of

the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to

create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified

their religion, and blessed their generation.

...to be continued

(Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda)

 

vanajaravinair

 

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

 

Dear Friend

Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th

Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5

of 8th Chapter, as under:-

 

1)What is the nature of Brahm.

The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the

Brahm.

Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only

Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is

permanent.

 

2)What is the nature of Adhyatma

Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of

the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a

man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya,

he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the

highest point of adhyatma.

 

3) What is the nature of Karma

The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings

which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma

Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are

impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when

the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates

action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled.

 

4)What is Adhibhoota

State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and

this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings

 

5)What is Adhidaiv

One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs.

 

6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body?

Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself,

dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya.

 

7)How does a man know you at the endtime .

Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any

doubt.

 

It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact

meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned

Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket.

 

It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer.

Regards

Ashok Jain

---------------------

 

" Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/

bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3)

 

In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end-

- Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, --

Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham

Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama)

and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE

will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special

creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put

one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death

cycle.

Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc

 

Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/

adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4).

 

All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones

duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi

Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and

Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of

Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making

enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have

always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything

(adhibhootam) on earth.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

------------------------------

 

HARIOM

 

Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme

Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers,

and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of

Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that

causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03)

 

Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or

temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine

Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the

Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04)

 

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE

RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING

 

hariom roy

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if

you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if

appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not

posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram

 

----------------------

Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from

other messages. Ram Ram

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