Guest guest Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub-conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot, Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else - " Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma. This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest. Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------------------- Dear Sadaks, May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish)) Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy. But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one. 2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and 13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu. (2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan --------------------- Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you. 8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being. Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual; it is one's real identity. Karma is every activity associated with origin, sustenance, and destruction. Think of Atman as a TV set, Brahman as the Sattelite provider. There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets. Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same, depending on the r each TV may be playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station. 8-4 The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence " because all beings are perishable; they come and go. The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit. Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña and it is I who resides in the body. See 9:16 and 16:18 7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and strive for freedom from old age and death †" they will know about brahman, atman, and karma. 7-30 Those who have a stable mind and know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause are awake to the supreme reality even at the moment of their death. It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active life, will prevail at the time of death. KST (Koti Sreekrishna) ----------------------- Chapter 7 Sloka 28 TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: 29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking refuge in Me --- They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self and all action. Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However, this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution. Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. " Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF, COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. " That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All- pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and efficient in all activities. CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES: ....to be continued TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued (From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair -------------------------- Jai OM It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy. Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain. Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion. Dev Kumar ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Response to Devji Kumar - We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the entire group will benefit from such explanations and understanding. From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub- conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Priy Sadhak I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations. May I tender my concievements on this. Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view. Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA Adhyatm= Our existance Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out from you Adhibhut= Physical body Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body. Hope this helps Thanx Raja Gurdasani ---------------------- Dear sadaks, Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first, he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom. Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died. Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood automatically. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan Friends ---------------------------- 1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest. He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other friends. 2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly, Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle, 'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does not contain anything from Jainism. 3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio form. You may search " yatharthgeeta " Ashok Jain ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot, Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else - " Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma. This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest. Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------------------- Dear Sadaks, May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish)) Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy. But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one. 2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and 13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu. (2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan --------------------- Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you. 8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being. Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual; it is one's real identity. Karma is every activity associated with origin, sustenance, and destruction. Think of Atman as a TV set, Brahman as the Sattelite provider. There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets. Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same, depending on the r each TV may be playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station. 8-4 The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence " because all beings are perishable; they come and go. The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit. Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña and it is I who resides in the body. See 9:16 and 16:18 7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and strive for freedom from old age and death †" they will know about brahman, atman, and karma. 7-30 Those who have a stable mind and know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause are awake to the supreme reality even at the moment of their death. It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active life, will prevail at the time of death. KST (Koti Sreekrishna) ----------------------- Chapter 7 Sloka 28 TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: 29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking refuge in Me --- They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self and all action. Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However, this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution. Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. " Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF, COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. " That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All- pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and efficient in all activities. CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES: ....to be continued TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued (From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair -------------------------- Jai OM It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy. Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain. Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion. Dev Kumar ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Response to Devji Kumar - We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the entire group will benefit from such explanations and understanding. From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub- conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Respected All, Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy- and-toymaker and TV channel examples. With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very crisp in his explanation. Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book. Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus: Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29) utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30) tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31) arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32) guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38) dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41) tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42) if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let me know. With regards Dev Kumar ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other sadhaks to avail such benefits. Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in three verses. Chapter 2 : 56 duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate chapter 4 : 10 vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah chapter 8 : 11 yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me give some samples. Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah| Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150) Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do with the karma refreed in Karma yoga. AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti| TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44). The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha, krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts. dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA| nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha) Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43) Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh | Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE || Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha: ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah| SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh|| samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah| tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham|| There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather than doer and enjoyer. Jai OM ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Priy Sadhak I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations. May I tender my concievements on this. Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view. Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA Adhyatm= Our existance Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out from you Adhibhut= Physical body Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body. Hope this helps Thanx Raja Gurdasani ---------------------- Dear sadaks, Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first, he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom. Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died. Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood automatically. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan Friends ---------------------------- 1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest. He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other friends. 2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly, Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle, 'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does not contain anything from Jainism. 3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio form. You may search " yatharthgeeta " Ashok Jain ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot, Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else - " Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma. This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest. Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------------------- Dear Sadaks, May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish)) Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy. But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one. 2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and 13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu. (2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan --------------------- Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you. 8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being. Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual; it is one's real identity. Karma is every activity associated with origin, sustenance, and destruction. Think of Atman as a TV set, Brahman as the Sattelite provider. There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets. Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same, depending on the r each TV may be playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station. 8-4 The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence " because all beings are perishable; they come and go. The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit. Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña and it is I who resides in the body. See 9:16 and 16:18 7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and strive for freedom from old age and death †" they will know about brahman, atman, and karma. 7-30 Those who have a stable mind and know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause are awake to the supreme reality even at the moment of their death. It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active life, will prevail at the time of death. KST (Koti Sreekrishna) ----------------------- Chapter 7 Sloka 28 TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: 29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking refuge in Me --- They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self and all action. Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However, this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution. Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. " Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF, COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. " That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All- pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and efficient in all activities. CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES: ....to be continued TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued (From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair -------------------------- Jai OM It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy. Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain. Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion. Dev Kumar ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Response to Devji Kumar - We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the entire group will benefit from such explanations and understanding. From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub- conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Partial translation from Bhaktivedanta Vedabase to support explanation of Gita 8:3 and 8:4 - TRANSLATION The gigantic universal form is represented by three, ten and one in the sense that He is the body and the mind and the senses, He is the dynamic force for all movements by ten kinds of life energy, and He is the one heart where life energy is generated. PURPORT In Bhagavad-Gita; (7.4-5) it is stated that the eight elements earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego are all products of the Lord's inferior energy, whereas the living entities, who are seen to utilize the inferior energy, originally belong to the superior energy, the internal potency of the Lord. The eight inferior energies work grossly and subtly, whereas the superior energy works as the central generating force. This is experienced in the human body. The gross elements, namely, earth, etc., form the external gross body and are like a coat, whereas the subtle mind and false ego act like the inner clothing of the body. The movements of the body are first generated from the heart, and all the activities of the body are made possible by the senses, powered by the ten kinds of air within the body. The ten kinds of air are described as follows: The main air passing through the nose in breathing is called praana. The air which passes through the rectum as evacuated bodily air is called apana. The air which adjusts the foodstuff within the stomach and which sometimes sounds as belching is called samaana. The air which passes through the throat and the stoppage of which constitutes suffocation is called the udaana air. Aid the total air which circulates throughout the entire body is called the vyaana air. Subtler than these five airs, there are others also. That which facilitates the opening of the eyes, mouth, etc., is called naaga air. The air which increases appetite is called krekara air. The air which helps contraction is called kurma air. The air which helps relaxation by opening the mouth wide (in yawning) is called devadatta air, and the air which helps sustenance is called dhanañjaya air. All these airs are generated from the center of the heart, which is one only. This central energy is superior energy of the Lord, who is seated within the heart with the soul of the body, who acts under the guidance of the Lord. This is explained in Bhagavad-Gita; (15.15) as follows: sarvasya caaham; hrydi sannivishtho mattah smritir jñaanam apohanamca vedaisca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedaanta-krid veda-vid eva caaham The complete central force is generated from the heart by the Lord, who is seated there and who helps the conditioned soul in remembering and forgetting. The conditioned state is due to the soul's forgetfulness of his relationship of subordination to the Lord. One who wants to continue to forget the Lord is helped by the Lord to forget Him birth after birth, but one who remembers Him, by dint of association with a devotee of the Lord, is helped to remember Him more and more. Thus the conditioned soul can ultimately go back home, back to Godhead. This process of transcendental help by the Lord is described in Bhagavad-gita; (10.10) as follows: teshaam satata-yuktaanaam bhajataam priti-purvakam dadaami buddhi-yogam tam yena maam upayaanti te The buddhi-yoga process of self-realization with intelligence transcendental to the mind (devotional service) can alone elevate one from the conditioned state of material entanglement in the cosmic construction. The conditioned state of the living entity is like that of a person who is within the depths of a huge mechanical arrangement. The mental speculators can reach the point of buddhi- yoga after many, many lifetimes of speculation, but the intelligent person who begins from the platform of intelligence above the mind makes rapid progress in self-realization. Because the buddhi-yoga process entails no fear of deterioration or retrogression at any time, it is the guaranteed path to self-realization, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gita; (2.40). The mental speculators cannot understand that the two birds sitting in one tree are the soul and the Supersoul. The individual soul eats the fruit of the tree, while the other bird does not eat the fruit but only observes the activities of the eating bird. Without attachment, the witnessing bird helps the fruit- eating bird perform fruitful activities. One who cannot understand this difference between the soul and the Supersoul, or God and the living entities, is certainly still in the entanglement of the cosmic machinery and thus must still await the time when he will be free from bondage. With regards Dev (Dr. C. Devakumar) ----------------------------- Many words used in Gita are the same or similar in meaning. Since Gita is trying to reach us to the ultimate realisation Akshara or OUM or Oneness or InfinIte, we should concentrate on that instead of getting distracted by the various similar words used. Moreover, trying to differentiate and accurately interpret the meanings of these various words used in a societal context of over 2000-3000 years ago would be futile to in today's context. As for me, I try to understand all these words in my own way to enrich my own understanding of the ultimate truth of Infinite, indestructible Oneness of each and everything in the Creation. So for me, verse 3 means: " Everything arises from and remains in the process of transformation in the medium of that Infinite, indestructible Oneness that I call and try to realize as Param ( the Ultimate), Aksharam (the Oneness) and Brahman (the Indestructible Brihat Mana). Similarly, I try tO understand verse 4 as: I and anything else in this creation that I know and do not know Originates from and transforms in the Adi (the unique, all comprehensive Source) that I call and try to realize as AdiBhootam (Origin/ Source), Adivaidaivatam (the ultimate source, the ultimate God)which is greater than anything else, creates,contains and sustains everything else. My only goal is to be alert as many moments of life as I can to this Reality of Infinite, Indestructible Oneness. My interpretations and thoughts may not conform to educated, knowledgable ones, but my effort is sincere. Hari Om. basu debsen ----------------------------- ================================================================= PRIOR POSTING Respected All, Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy- and-toymaker and TV channel examples. With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very crisp in his explanation. Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book. Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus: Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29) utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30) tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31) arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32) guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38) dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41) tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42) if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let me know. With regards Dev Kumar ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other sadhaks to avail such benefits. Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in three verses. Chapter 2 : 56 duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate chapter 4 : 10 vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah chapter 8 : 11 yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me give some samples. Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah| Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150) Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do with the karma refreed in Karma yoga. AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti| TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44). The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha, krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts. dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA| nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha) Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43) Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh | Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE || Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha: ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah| SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh|| samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah| tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham|| There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather than doer and enjoyer. Jai OM ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Priy Sadhak I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations. May I tender my concievements on this. Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view. Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA Adhyatm= Our existance Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out from you Adhibhut= Physical body Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body. Hope this helps Thanx Raja Gurdasani ---------------------- Dear sadaks, Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first, he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom. Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died. Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood automatically. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan Friends ---------------------------- 1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest. He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other friends. 2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly, Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle, 'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does not contain anything from Jainism. 3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio form. You may search " yatharthgeeta " Ashok Jain ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot, Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else - " Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma. This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest. Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------------------- Dear Sadaks, May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish)) Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy. But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one. 2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and 13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu. (2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan --------------------- Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you. 8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being. Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual; it is one's real identity. Karma is every activity associated with origin, sustenance, and destruction. Think of Atman as a TV set, Brahman as the Sattelite provider. There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets. Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same, depending on the r each TV may be playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station. 8-4 The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence " because all beings are perishable; they come and go. The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit. Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña and it is I who resides in the body. See 9:16 and 16:18 7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and strive for freedom from old age and death †" they will know about brahman, atman, and karma. 7-30 Those who have a stable mind and know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause are awake to the supreme reality even at the moment of their death. It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active life, will prevail at the time of death. KST (Koti Sreekrishna) ----------------------- Chapter 7 Sloka 28 TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: 29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking refuge in Me --- They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self and all action. Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However, this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution. Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. " Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF, COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. " That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All- pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and efficient in all activities. CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES: ....to be continued TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued (From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair -------------------------- Jai OM It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy. Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain. Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion. Dev Kumar ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Response to Devji Kumar - We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the entire group will benefit from such explanations and understanding. From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub- conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Respected All, I request my peers on this divine group to explain the meanings of the 3rd and 4th sloka of the Bhagwat Gita's 8th Chapter. " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakarah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Also, some of the similar terms are used in the 29th and 30th sloka of the 7th Chapter. I have been reading time and again these lines and their interpretations by Swami Ramsukhdaji in the Gita Prabodhini and Sadhak Sanjivini. Tried my best in understanding the meanings of these lines in the Gyaneshawari, Shankari Bhashya and some of the other commentaries by past and contemporary scholars/saints. Yet, I am at a fix to grasp the real meanings of these lines. Shall be grateful for enlightenment in this context in simple and logistic expressions. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- NEW POSTING Ram Ram, First one has to understand the word by word simple meaning of any GITA verse before we get into an explanation and great subjective explanations. Here are the simple word by word meaning as well as a simple translation of these two difficult verses based on American/ International Gita Society's translation by Dr. Ramananda Prasad for your discussion and further comments: Verses 8.03 akshram brahma paramam = param brahma is akshara or imperishable svabhavo adhyaatm uchyate = nature (svabhava) or powers of brahma is called adhyaatma bhoota bhaavodbhavakaro = urge (or bhaava) of Eternal Being that causes manifestation (udbhavakaro) of the living entities (bhootas) visargah karma sanjnitah = is called karma Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or Brahma. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhyaatma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Verse 8.04 adhibhootam ksharo bhaava = five basic elements (adhibhoota or kshara or changeable) is called adhibhoota purushacha adhidaivatam = Various expansions of the Supreme Being (such as Narayana, Mahavishnu etc.) are called Divine Beings or adhidaiva adhiyajnoham evaatra = I, the Supreme being, am adhiyajna or enjoyer of all sacrifices dehe dehabhritaam vara = in the body, O, Arjuna Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) hariom roy ----------------------------- Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) and, Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). Hari Om. Krushna is the creator of this Universe. He is omni present. He is in Nirguna. He is a high voltage current that penetrates through each and every jeevathma. Krushna is in Nirguna but rajas,thamas and sathvik are attached to HIm. It is known as Vishnumaya. He is the Current between the Prackruthi and the Jeevathma. THe Jeevathma is known as ADHYATHMA. Jeevathma is completely governed by thrigunas and thus engaged in doing KARMA. KRushna is like the cream in the milk He is present in every atom of this universe. He is the creator,he is the saviour and he is the destroyer. Evrything is a part and parcel of VISHNU MAYA!!!! With regards, Usha Sridhar. ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Partial translation from Bhaktivedanta Vedabase to support explanation of Gita 8:3 and 8:4 - TRANSLATION The gigantic universal form is represented by three, ten and one in the sense that He is the body and the mind and the senses, He is the dynamic force for all movements by ten kinds of life energy, and He is the one heart where life energy is generated. PURPORT In Bhagavad-Gita; (7.4-5) it is stated that the eight elements earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego are all products of the Lord's inferior energy, whereas the living entities, who are seen to utilize the inferior energy, originally belong to the superior energy, the internal potency of the Lord. The eight inferior energies work grossly and subtly, whereas the superior energy works as the central generating force. This is experienced in the human body. The gross elements, namely, earth, etc., form the external gross body and are like a coat, whereas the subtle mind and false ego act like the inner clothing of the body. The movements of the body are first generated from the heart, and all the activities of the body are made possible by the senses, powered by the ten kinds of air within the body. The ten kinds of air are described as follows: The main air passing through the nose in breathing is called praana. The air which passes through the rectum as evacuated bodily air is called apana. The air which adjusts the foodstuff within the stomach and which sometimes sounds as belching is called samaana. The air which passes through the throat and the stoppage of which constitutes suffocation is called the udaana air. Aid the total air which circulates throughout the entire body is called the vyaana air. Subtler than these five airs, there are others also. That which facilitates the opening of the eyes, mouth, etc., is called naaga air. The air which increases appetite is called krekara air. The air which helps contraction is called kurma air. The air which helps relaxation by opening the mouth wide (in yawning) is called devadatta air, and the air which helps sustenance is called dhanañjaya air. All these airs are generated from the center of the heart, which is one only. This central energy is superior energy of the Lord, who is seated within the heart with the soul of the body, who acts under the guidance of the Lord. This is explained in Bhagavad-Gita; (15.15) as follows: sarvasya caaham; hrydi sannivishtho mattah smritir jñaanam apohanamca vedaisca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedaanta-krid veda-vid eva caaham The complete central force is generated from the heart by the Lord, who is seated there and who helps the conditioned soul in remembering and forgetting. The conditioned state is due to the soul's forgetfulness of his relationship of subordination to the Lord. One who wants to continue to forget the Lord is helped by the Lord to forget Him birth after birth, but one who remembers Him, by dint of association with a devotee of the Lord, is helped to remember Him more and more. Thus the conditioned soul can ultimately go back home, back to Godhead. This process of transcendental help by the Lord is described in Bhagavad-gita; (10.10) as follows: teshaam satata-yuktaanaam bhajataam priti-purvakam dadaami buddhi-yogam tam yena maam upayaanti te The buddhi-yoga process of self-realization with intelligence transcendental to the mind (devotional service) can alone elevate one from the conditioned state of material entanglement in the cosmic construction. The conditioned state of the living entity is like that of a person who is within the depths of a huge mechanical arrangement. The mental speculators can reach the point of buddhi- yoga after many, many lifetimes of speculation, but the intelligent person who begins from the platform of intelligence above the mind makes rapid progress in self-realization. Because the buddhi-yoga process entails no fear of deterioration or retrogression at any time, it is the guaranteed path to self-realization, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gita; (2.40). The mental speculators cannot understand that the two birds sitting in one tree are the soul and the Supersoul. The individual soul eats the fruit of the tree, while the other bird does not eat the fruit but only observes the activities of the eating bird. Without attachment, the witnessing bird helps the fruit- eating bird perform fruitful activities. One who cannot understand this difference between the soul and the Supersoul, or God and the living entities, is certainly still in the entanglement of the cosmic machinery and thus must still await the time when he will be free from bondage. With regards Dev (Dr. C. Devakumar) ----------------------------- Many words used in Gita are the same or similar in meaning. Since Gita is trying to reach us to the ultimate realisation Akshara or OUM or Oneness or InfinIte, we should concentrate on that instead of getting distracted by the various similar words used. Moreover, trying to differentiate and accurately interpret the meanings of these various words used in a societal context of over 2000-3000 years ago would be futile to in today's context. As for me, I try to understand all these words in my own way to enrich my own understanding of the ultimate truth of Infinite, indestructible Oneness of each and everything in the Creation. So for me, verse 3 means: " Everything arises from and remains in the process of transformation in the medium of that Infinite, indestructible Oneness that I call and try to realize as Param ( the Ultimate), Aksharam (the Oneness) and Brahman (the Indestructible Brihat Mana). Similarly, I try tO understand verse 4 as: I and anything else in this creation that I know and do not know Originates from and transforms in the Adi (the unique, all comprehensive Source) that I call and try to realize as AdiBhootam (Origin/ Source), Adivaidaivatam (the ultimate source, the ultimate God)which is greater than anything else, creates,contains and sustains everything else. My only goal is to be alert as many moments of life as I can to this Reality of Infinite, Indestructible Oneness. My interpretations and thoughts may not conform to educated, knowledgable ones, but my effort is sincere. Hari Om. basu debsen ----------------------------- ================================================================= PRIOR POSTING Respected All, Thank you so much for helping me understand the implicit and deep meanings of these slokas. I am particularly impressed with the toy- and-toymaker and TV channel examples. With my forehead at Lotus feet of all Sadhaks. Kind regards, Suresh C Sharma ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks Happy New Year. Shri Suresh Ji C. Sharma has asked us to identify aksharam, adibhutam and adhidaivam and adhiyagyam. Many sadaks came out with excellent explantions. Shri Ashokji Jain in fact was very crisp in his explanation. Please permit to cite relevant Sutra from Tatvaartha Sutra also known as Moksha Shastra. his sacred book written about 2000 years back is the universal Jain agam or sacred book. Chapter 5 defines about universal substrata thus: Sat dravya lakshanam (5:29) utpaata vyaya drauvyayuktam sat (5:30) tadbhAva avyayam nityam (5:31) arpita anarpita siddheh (5:32) guna paryayavat dravyam (5:38) dravyAsrayA nirguNAh guNAh (5: 41) tadbhAvah parinAmah (5:42) if some sadak is interested some discussion on the above sutra, let me know. With regards Dev Kumar ---------------------- Dear All Sadaks My New year Greetings for realising aksharam param brahmam. I greatly admire the policy of this group. My only request is to expand the landscape of the discussion with cross-talk from other sacred books and enrich with cross references. Personally, I am reading Bhagawat Gita along with sacred Jain books such as Tatwartha Sutra, Niyamasara, Pravachanasara and Samayasara. While I am enjoying the benefits of both school of philosophy, I urge other sadhaks to avail such benefits. Vitaragah is an important key word in Bhagawat Gita which occurs in three verses. Chapter 2 : 56 duhkhesu anudvigna-manah sukhesu vigata-sprah vita-raga-bhaya-krodhah sthita-dhir munir ucyate chapter 4 : 10 vita-raga-bhaya-krodha man-maya mam upasritah bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam agatah chapter 8 : 11 yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah yad icchanto brahmacaryam caranti tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye Vitaragata is the most sought after goal among Jain mumukshu. Let me give some samples. Rakto badhnaati karma mucyate JivO viragasampraptah| Esho JinOpadEshah tasmaat karmasu maa rajyasva|| (Acharya Kunda Kunda 108-12 BC in Shri Samayasaara gatha no. 150) Here Karma refers to karma siddhant of Jainism. It is nothing to do with the karma refreed in Karma yoga. AprAdurbhavah khalu rAgAdinAm bhavatahimseti| TEshAmEvOtpattirhimsEti JinAgamasya samkshEpah|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's PurushArtha Siddhi upAya verse no. 44). The very definition of himsa is the arising of moha, raga, dvesha, krodha, maana, maaya and lobha etc. in one's thought, words and acts. dukhEe sukhEe vairini bandhuvargE yogE viyOgE bhavanE vanEvA| nirAkrutAshEsha mamatva buddhE samam manOmEstu sadApi nAtha|| (Acharya Amrutchandra's SAmayika PAtha) Now coming to akshara brahmam and adhi bhutam, Swami Samantabhadra says in Swayambhu Stotra (no. 43) Nityam tadEvadamiti pratItEr na nityamamanyat pratipatti siddheh | Na tad viruddham bahirantaranga nimittanaimittika yogatastE || Coming to Adiyagyam, Jain Acharya sums up thus in Saamaayika Patha: ekOmE shAshwatAtma jnAnadarshana lakshanaah| SEshA bahir BhavE bhAvAh sarvE samyOga lakshanAh|| samyOga mulam jivEna prabhtA dukha paramparah| tasmAt samyOga sambandham tridha sarvam tyajAmyaham|| There are three chetna or consciousness viz, gyan chetana, karma chetana and karma phala chetana. The art of withering of past karma particles is to remain aloof from the karma and their fruits. One should be dispassionate while carrying out worldly actions. One should be a dispassionate and enlightened seer and knower rather than doer and enjoyer. Jai OM ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Priy Sadhak I dont believe in long, hectic & difficult to understand explanations. May I tender my concievements on this. Swamiji has given very clearly & easy to take view. Akshar= Abstract PARAMATMA Adhyatm= Our existance Karm= Our birth from one & only Paramatma like your child came out from you Adhibhut= Physical body Adhidaiv= Jeevatma Or Omnipresent God Adhiyagya= All the actions & reactions going on in our body. Hope this helps Thanx Raja Gurdasani ---------------------- Dear sadaks, Sri V.Sarvotham wrote: Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! Vedas and Upanashis says that one can know about GOD only through Ygana. As long as Ygana is there not there in full level one cannot believe even if Sri Krishna comes in front. Arjuna had Ego even much later after the war. Arjuna gets angry when Yudistra scolds about his Gandeep. He always had Ego about being a great warior. Even last day of war when Bagavan asks Arjuna to jump out from Chariot first, he questioned Bagavan. At the very end of his life when he came to know that Sri Krishna disappered from world and from that day one onwards he could not even lift Gandeeva when thiefs entered kingdom. Yudistra also had Ego that he big Dharmathuma. That is why he could not co operate with Bagavan during war to say that Aswadhama died. Bagavan had to make an elephant named Aswathama to be killed by Bheema and request Yudistra to say " Aswadhama died- and murmer the word elephant died " . Here both Arjuna and Yudistra had the action to be performed (Karma) attached to them, since they thought they are doing. So if we understand HIM everything gets understood automatically. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan Friends ---------------------------- 1.Request Mr Suresh C Sharma to provide his feedback at earliest. He can summarise his understanding for benefit of myself and other friends. 2.I assure Shri Dev Kumar Ji that my reply is based on Gita, mainly, Yatharthgeeta by Swami Adgadanand Ji.I have restricted my reply to the meaning of verse without adding mine interpretation.For examle, 'Aksharam brahma parmam 'means param brahma is aksharam'.Here Bhagwan Krisna mentions only one characterstic of Brahma and that is Aksharam-imperishable,indestructible,inexhaustible.The reply does not contain anything from Jainism. 3.Yatharth Geeta is available for free download in book and audio form. You may search " yatharthgeeta " Ashok Jain ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Priyevar, Your dilemma is that in all three of these Adhibhoot, Adhidaiva, and Adhiyagna and Brahma, as well as, Para- Apara prakriti and Karma (Sukarma, Vikarma and Akarma), to believe one's Self as separate from Paramatma is the reason why it cannot be understood by you. And that it is only Paramatma and nothing else - " Vasudeva Sarvam " . Neither you are there, nor is your dilemma. This entire divine play (to understand and to not understand) that too is not there. However much you attempt to understand, to that extent the incomplete knowledge will continue to manifest. Bhagavaan Himself told Arjuna – what will you do on understanding everything. (You will not be able to do anything). When I Myself, (in reality) am sitting in front of you, holding the strings supporting you (and then too you are unable to know what to do)! So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------------------- Dear Sadaks, May be I am wrong. (Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish)) Toy maker makes toy by EFFORT. But the toy is not toy maker. Now there Is (TWO) toy and the toy maker. Toy cannot make another toy. But toy maker can make any number of toys. Here the toy maker is SAT and toy is Maya. Paramathuma is One and the only one. 2 forms of World (Jagat). All creation including solar system and 13 other worlds are Jagat which is Anithiya (Not permanant) Seeing as 2 forms of world is Maya. Seeing as one form of world in GOD` s single effort is correct I think. Scientists recently confirmed that the whole creation of Galaxies came in existence in one trillienth of a second. One knows human 360.25 days are equal to one day of Bramaji. Going deep further may be billions of years of ours is equal to one trillienth of second for Sri Maha Vishnu. (2 forms of individual souls) Soul cannot have two forms. Soul as said by Bagavan is indistructable and HE abides in it. (HIS power dwells in soul) There is One and only Paramathuma Omnipresent. But for us due to Aggyan (ignorance) everything seems as two. But for Saints only one that is Vasudeva Sarvam Mayam Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan --------------------- Please see if these translations from the book in works by Hari Ravikumar and myself makes better sense to you. 8-3 Brahman is the imperishable supreme being. Atman is the embodiment of unique qualities of an individual; it is one's real identity. Karma is every activity associated with origin, sustenance, and destruction. Think of Atman as a TV set, Brahman as the Sattelite provider. There are 1000s of rs, each with their own TV sets. Although TV sets (soul) are essentially same, depending on the r each TV may be playing a different channel provided by the Sattelite station. 8-4 The essential nature of all beings is " impermanence " because all beings are perishable; they come and go. The foremost among deities is purusha, the supreme spirit. Indeed, I am the one venerated by yagña and it is I who resides in the body. See 9:16 and 16:18 7-29 Those who take refuge in the supreme and strive for freedom from old age and death †" they will know about brahman, atman, and karma. 7-30 Those who have a stable mind and know me as the physical, celestial, and spiritual cause are awake to the supreme reality even at the moment of their death. It is reasonable that whatever one is preoccupied with in active life, will prevail at the time of death. KST (Koti Sreekrishna) ----------------------- Chapter 7 Sloka 28 TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: 29. Those who strive for liberation from old age and death, taking refuge in Me --- They realize in full that BRAHMAN, the whole knowledge of the Self and all action. Those who thus strive diligently to cleanse their hearts of their wrong tendencies and bring their minds so purified for higher contemplation upon the Self, do so in order to gain " FREEDOM FROM OLD AGE AND DEATH. " But the modern world is also striving to discover methods of arresting death and avoiding old age. However, this physical continuity of existence in the world is not the goal that has been hinted at here in the Science of spiritual evolution. Birth, growth, disease, decay and death are the natural modifications that come to every man, or being, living in a given manifestation to the ripe old age of its full existence. Such modifications as experiences of change are the agonizing sources of all pains in life. But for this change, a complete and unbroken happiness could be our lot. The attempt of a spiritual seeker, in his meditation upon the Self, is to get over all his identifications with the realm of change, and the entire province of change is indicated by these two familiar terms " OLD AGE AND DEATH. " Such a true meditator, meditating upon the Self, comes to realize his identity with the Conscious Principle in him, the Self. The Self in the individual (Atman) is the Eternal Truth, which is the Substratum for the whole universe (Brahman). To realize the Self is to become Brahman, since the Self in the individual is the One Self everywhere. This non-duality of the Truth is implied here in this stanza when it declares that " THOSE WHO MEDITATE UPON ME, THE SELF, COME TO 'KNOW BRAHMAN. " That the man of realisation is not therefore an impotent fool in worldly transactions, has been clearly brought out here, when Krishna says that the Perfected One not only realises the All- pervading Self, but at once comprehends " THE WORKING OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES (ADHYATMA) IN HIM AND BECOMES PROFICIENT IN ALL ACTIVITIES (KARMA). " It is very well realised by all men of experience that he alone can serve the world who has a full and complete knowledge of the psychology of the world, and also has a perfect control over his own mind. A man of harmonious perfection is the fittest instrument to sing the Song of Truth, and such an individual must be the best integrated personality, smart and efficient in all activities. CONTINUING THE SAME IDEA AND EXPRESSING HOW A MAN OF WISDOM IS A MAN OF ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL EFFICIENCY, KRISHNA DECLARES: ....to be continued TO SHOW THEN WHAT THE QUALIFICATION OF THOSE WHO SEEK THE TRUTH ARE, THE FOLLOWING IS GIVEN: 28. But those men of virtuous deeds whose sins have come to an end, who are freed from the delusion of the pairs-of-opposites and steadfast in vows, worship Me. " MEN OF VIRTUOUS DEEDS, " as a result of their actions, " COME TO CLEANSE THEIR SINFUL NATURE " --- is a declaration that needs to be correctly understood. Sin is not the nature of man; according to Vedanta, it is only the tarnish that has come to dim the brilliance of the Self, due to an error of judgment in the individual. The craving of the mind-and- intellect, to live in subservience to the calls and appetites of the grosser outer world, is the root-cause for the negative values entertained by us, which ultimately result in 'sins.' He is called a sinful-person in whom his body makes the heaviest calls on his time and attention. In such a person, the body becomes the dominant partner, and it 'enslaves' the self. An extrovert life --- a life spent in pursuing the satisfaction of his sensuous desires, to comfort and console every one of his paltry emotions --- is the way of the sinful. Such a passionate animal-life leaves gross impressions upon the mind and intellect. Impressions (vasanas) decide the future flow of thoughts. As the thoughts, so the actions, and the action deepen the vasanas. To break this 'vasana-thought-action' chain which is now digging the grave of the individual's peace and tranquillity, it is advised that he start a new life of meritorious actions. Merit (punya) is a contrast to sin (papa) and therefore, it is constituted of actions, feelings and thoughts, dedicated to the godly and the divine. All introvert actions undertaken in the cognition of " THE SELF I AM, " would create in their wake new impressions. In the long run, the patterns of sin that existed in the bosom are wiped out and new divine designs are created therein. Such a prepared mind-intellect, from which almost all its negativities have been rubbed off is " FREE FROM THE DELUSION OF THE PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES. " It then becomes an instrument that can, with a single-pointed steadfastness and firm resolve, meditate upon the Self. WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVE IN THE HEART OF THOSE WHO ARE THUS MEDITATING UPON THE SELF AFTER THEIR MINDS HAVE BEEN READJUSTED BY LIVING THE LIFE-DIVINE? LISTEN: ..to be continued (From Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair -------------------------- Jai OM It appears that one cannot approach any member of this group directly. I was trying to get the email id of Shriman Suresh C Sharma. The Sadhak Shriman Ashok Jain may make use of Jaina metaphysics to offer alternate explanations to these shloka. After all 22nd Jain Tirthankar Arishta Nemi (whose name is any way invoked in prayers) and Lord Krishna were cousins. So one should not deny the rich meaning of these shloka available from Jain philosophy. Moreover, Shriman Ashok Ji himself is a Jain. Kshma yachana if I have hurt any of you with my humble suggestion. Dev Kumar ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Response to Devji Kumar - We have discontinued the practice of sharing sadhak's email ids as these were being spammed and direct communication with sadhaks (out of maryaadaa). We hope you will understand. We do believe the entire group will benefit from such explanations and understanding. From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Sureshji ! Logically once you have read Sadhak Sanjeevani, Gita Prabodhini etc any verse of Gita should be crystal clear to you. If they are not clear, then where is confusion should be stated by you. Ashokji Jain and other learned sadhaks have given valuable inputs too ! Basically, in 8:3/4 - Lord answers six Qs of Arjuna asked in 8:1/2 . Here " Aksharam " means Brahma- nirgun nirakaar Paramatma. " Adhyatma " - means soul on one hand and education relating to soul on other hand. " Karma " - means first time renunciation or sankalpa (will to create) made by God in manifesting this universe. It represents " sankalpa " ( will) of Divine to begin this universe. " Adhibhut " - is this ever changing world / creation made of 5 elements- air, water, fire, earth and sky. " Adhideva " - means Brahma as manifesting out of aforesaid " sankalpa " of Paramatma to begin the creation- individual souls. " Adhiyagya " - is Paramatma as residing in every Jeeva, in every individual soul. . Thus there are 2 forms of Paramatma (Jagdish), 2 forms of World (Jagat) and 2 forms of individual souls (Jeeva)- total 6 Qs/elements ! Swamiji has given excellent example of " water " to explain these terms. Brahma, Nirgun Nirakaar (Attributeless/formless) Paramatma is water in the form of moisture. Adhiyagya (Universal Vishnu) - is water in the form of vapour. Adhideva (Brahma, the creator of this Universe) - is water in the form of clouds. Adhyatma (various creatures/life forms) - is water in the form of rain drops. " Karma " ( Karma of creation of this universe) -is the activity of raining- water again. Adhibhut( the material world) - is water in the form of Ice. Such a splendid clarity. Just as one element called water takes different forms such as moisture, vapour, clouds, rain drops, ice etc and appears differently to us so does Paramatma ! Vasudevah Sarvam !! Where is confusion? The terms " Brahma " and Adhiyagya represent two forms of Paramatma- Attributeless (nirgun) and with attributes (sagun) respectively. The terms Adhyatma and Adhideva represent two forms of Jeeva - ordinary jeevas and liberated souls respectively. The terms Karma and Adhibhut- represent two forms of world (creation) - former represents activity and latter the matter. Matter+ Activity - World ! All to establish characteristics of Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish. All to prove Vasudevah Sarvam. As simple as that !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadaks, Can it be like this: 1)Brahmam is all prevading, nondistructable, unchangable and everlasting. 2) Adhyatma- One who has realized differance between permanant and impermanent and abides in Athuman, wittnessing things around, without change from Anandmaya. 3) Karma has come due to past cause and effect. Bagavan said one cannot be without doing Karma. Then doing Karma is again going to result in cause and effect. But doing Karma that is required (not out of desire) in physical level and mental without knowing that one is doing Karma. Mean totally unattached to action. Such Karma Bagavan says Karma effect does not go to the doer. Example: Bagavan said wage war for Dharma leaving the fruits to HIM. So the effects of war goes NOT to Arjuna. 4) Adhibhootha: The process of Mortality that is existing from Adi Kaalam (Much longer time) 5) Adhidaiv- WHO is the first and ever remaining and WHO is cause for creating 33 crore demi gods and creation. 6) Adhiyagya--Bagavan has said that HE is all things but HE is not that. Means HIS power is in Athumam (Athuman nondistructable said by Bagavan) but HE is not in human. With this power, using the equipment body as tool can reach divinity as that of saints. 7) How does a man know HIM at last breath? By constant practice of HIS name knowing or unknowingly. Example: Ajaamilan in Srimath Bagavath. Ajaamilan was constantly practicing calling his son Narayan as and when he wanted anything. The tounge that practiced calling Narayana, had ability automatically call his son Narayana when Yama Dhootas came. The sound (Aksharam) Narayana made Visnu Dhootas to also appear same time. The same sound (Govinda) Aksharam called by Drowpati when being disrobed, Vastram came first says puran. Ajaamilan witnessed the argument between Yama dhootas and Visnu Dhotaas and felt badly on the waste of his time in the world, since he thought having called his son Narayana, Vishnu Dhootas have come. He thought have I practiced Nam Narayana with faith and Bakthi, I would not be in this state. When HIS demi Fire God (by Swabav) can burn when knowingly or unknowingly touched, how about the creator of demi GOD. HE will uplift one who calls him at last breath certainly because it is HIS Swabav. It is our Swabav to use the tounge for anger etc but not HIS name. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ---------------------- Dear Shri Suresh C. Sharma, In the 3rd Shloka of the 8th Chapter of Bhagwad Gita Shri Krishna is saying that Adhytma {self knowledge} is the nature of Brahman or in other words The Absolute Reality is Brahman. The Brahman is imperishable {aksharam} and therefore it is Supreme {paramam}. It is supremely above time, space and causation which are the characteristics of the universe. The nature of this imperishable is Adhyatma and this if expressed as a mathematical symbol, it is " 0 " {shunya}. The real nature of infinity is Zeroness. We have learned in the 2nd chapter of Gita - " Sankhyayoga " - that infinity + zeroness = Aum ! This Aum is the Supreme Element {param tatva / brahma tatva}. Thus Aum is the symbol of the " Aksharam Brhma Paramam " , the starting words of the 3rd Shloka. The one which is infinite, can it be described by language appropriately. We all know this limitation of the language and therefore we use symbol which enables us to set aside the limitations of language. Symbol allows the infinite to remain infinite and thus the very basis and background of the panorama of the universe is the imperishable Brahman which is symbolically expressed as " Aum " . The creation of the universe in such a " param brahman " is in itself a divine act and the system of self administration and governance of such creation is called " karma " . Thus in one shloka Shri Krishna is talking about three things - imperishable Brahman, Adhyatma and the creation of living beings called the " Jivatman " . The very presence of the Brahman in each individual body is called Adhyatma or Atman - Spirit -. Creation and offerings are connected with the karma like birth and death or creation and destruction and similarly Adhyatma is the nature of each individual. Our consciousness {chetana} is vibrating at diferrent levels and alertness is one such part of consciousness, though our alertness is highly polluted by so called worldly things. The other part of our consciousness is " sub- conscious state " {avachetan avastha} which reaches very near to our original nature - " svabhava " . For example a theif in order to avoid getting caught sometimes speak such things which reveals his act of theft and he gets caught. This happens because of his sub-conscious state of mind. Likewise when we dream in our sleep we are almost near our " svabhava " . The next stage is that of " unconsciousness " {achetan avastha}. This stage is that of dreamless sleep. This stage or state is our real " Svabhava " something like meeting with or connecting with our own true being on a daily basis. This stage is something like a " Samadhi avastha " which is possible to attain at the time of death and if anyone of us is able to attain this, then this will be called " Aum Consciousness " {Aum Chetna}. Yogis and Sanyasis are always attempting to acheive this. Lord Buddhha has talked about " Samyak Samadhi " - Samadhi means an act of tasting " Nirvana " . Thus there are four levels of our Consciousness :- 1. Alertness 2. Sub-conscious state 3. Unconscious state; and 4. Aum Consciousness {Aum Chetana}. One which is imperishable {Akshara}, Supreme {Paramam} and Brahman, Its nature is Adhyatma and Adhyatma resides in Aum Chetana. This is therefore is the traiumvirate {Trivenitirtha} of Satt, Chitta and Anandam. Today I am able to send you my understanding of the 3rd shloka and may be tomorrow I would be able to send you my thoughts and understadning about the 4th Shloka. Both these Shlokas need to be understood as one and therefore whatever I have given above is incomplete. Do let me know your thoughts so that I can also get myself further enlightened through the interactive communication in order to realize the Supreme and be in communion with It. Jai Shri Krishna Bhagirat Merchant ---------------------- Those who know Me with the ADHIBHUTA (pertaining to elements; the world-of-objects), ADHIDAIVA (pertaining to the gods; the sense- organs) and the ADHIYAJNA (pertaining to the sacrifice; all perceptions) , even at the time of death, steadfast in mind, know Me. Not only that the man of realisation understands all the vagaries of the mind and the nature of all activities, but he also gains a perfect knowledge of the world-of-objects (Adhibhuta), the secrets behind the workings of the sense-organs, mind, and intellect (Adhidaiva), and the conditions under which all perceptions --- physical, mental and intellectual (Adhiyajna) can best take place. The common idea that a man-of-God is an impractical man, inefficient to live a successful life in the world, may be true as far as a dedicated devotee of a particular god-form, or a prophet, is concerned. The Upasaka is one who is so fully engrossed with his emotions and thoughts, dedicated to the Lord of his heart, that he has neither the interest nor the capacity to know the ways of the world. But the man-of-Perfection, as conceived by the Science of Vedanta, is not only a man of experience in the realm of Spirit, but he is also, at all times, on all occasions, under all situations, a master of himself, and a dynamic force to be reckoned with. He essentially becomes the leader of the world, as he is a master of his own mind, as well as the minds of the entire living kingdom. To him, thereafter, everything becomes clear, and such a Man-of- Perfection lives in the world as God in his Knowledge of the worlds, both within and without. In short, the chapter closes with a total assertion that " HE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS EVERYTHING " ; he is the man who will guide the destinies of the world, not only in his own times, but in the days to come, as Lord Krishna Himself did. These two closing stanzas of this chapter do not of themselves explain all the terms used in them. They represent a summary of the following chapter. In a Shastra this is one of the traditional methods in the art of connecting two consecutive chapters together. In the form of mantras, these two stanzas indicate the contents and the theme of the following chapter. THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM Vedantic ideologies, preached in the Upanishads had become, by the time of Vyasa, mere speculative narrations of poetic perfection, divorced from the actualities of life. The Hindus, thus estranged from the essential glory and strength of their culture, were to be resurrected by showing them the particular beauty and fire that lie concealed in the philosophical speculations. In this chapter, Krishna has emphasized and indicated beyond all doubt, how Vedantic perfection can be achieved and lived to the glory of the successful seeker and to the blessing of the generation in which he lives. It is most appropriate, therefore, that the chapter is entitled " THE YOGA OF KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. " Mere knowledge is of no particular use. Wisdom is the glow that knowledge imparts to the individual. The fulfilment of knowledge in an individual is possible only when he becomes a Man-of-Wisdom. Knowledge can be imparted, but Wisdom cannot be given. The philosophical portion of all religions provides the knowledge, the instructional section of all religions provides techniques by which knowledge can be assimilated and digested into the very texture of the devotees' inner lives, and thereby every religion seeks to create Men-of-Wisdom, who have fulfilled their lives, justified their religion, and blessed their generation. ...to be continued (Taken from Holy Geeta of Swami Chinmayananda) vanajaravinair ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear Friend Seven Questions are asked by Arjuna in Verses 1 and 2 of 8th Chapter and their answer is provided by Bhagwan in verses 3,4 & 5 of 8th Chapter, as under:- 1)What is the nature of Brahm. The one who is indestructible, who never perishes /dies, is the Brahm. Aksharm means a-shar , which does not perishes or exhausts. Only Brahm Does not get exhausted /destroyed/perished. Brahm is permanent. 2)What is the nature of Adhyatma Being steady in the nature of Self is adhyatma or dominance of the Soul. Before this stage everyone is ruled by maya, but when a man dwells firmly in his own true nature (Sw-bhav) and not Maya, he is infused with the sense of supremacy of his Self. This is the highest point of adhyatma. 3) What is the nature of Karma The ceasing/ discontinuance of the traits/sanskars of beings which results in both good and bad Karma (action ) is Karma Men act according to the compulsions of their nature. They are impelled to act by their inherent traits. Perfect Action is when the desires/ traits (Bhaav or Sanskar) of beings which creates action (karma) both good and bad are dissolved or stilled. 4)What is Adhibhoota State of mortality /destructibilty is Adhibhoot for beings and this state is the cause and source of the origin of beings 5)What is Adhidaiv One who is beyond nature is adhidaiv, owning all the devs. 6)Who is a adhiyagya and how is he within the body? Bhagwan says - I am adhiyagya in the human body. Thus God himself, dwelling as the unmanifest Soul in the body, is adhiyagya. 7)How does a man know you at the endtime . Man who departs from body remembering me attains me ,without any doubt. It is difficult for me to find English words conveying the exact meaning of Sanskrit words and for that reason I have mentioned Hindi/Sanskrit word in bracket. It would be my pleasure to explain further any specific answer. Regards Ashok Jain --------------------- " Aksharam brahma parmam swabhavah adhyatma uchyate/ bhutabhavodbhavakar ah visargah karmasangyitah (3) In Aksharam Om (aum) the non destructable having NO beginning or end- - Bramam supreme eternal power -- (swabhavah) does not change, -- Adhyatma, THAT which can elevate one to realize Athuman as Aham Bramasmi,---Uchyate, Keep consistingly concentrating on HIM (Brama) and pronounce HIS names, so that at the time of death last breath HE will elevate you.--- Failing to do this, comes Visargah--Special creativity of Bramam- means entangling forces of HIS creation to put one in use of organs to create bodies resulting in birth and death cycle. Names--Om Namo Narayanaya- Om Kesavaya- Om Achudaya Etc Adhibhootam ksharah bhavah purusha aadhidaivtam/ adhiyagyah ahmevatra dehe dehbhritam vara " (4). All elements sound, light & Panch boothas are perishable. Doing ones duty by way of Yagna or Karma (action) dedicating as " Narayanayethi Samarpayame " reaches HIM as HE exists in all, through demi gods and Sun. Sri Visnu is presiding in all and HE is giver of fruits of Yagna. But if Karma done for Pala it gives results to 3 gunas making enjoyer of fruits (pleasures and sorrows). So sadaks should have always have in mind about achieving divinity rather than anything (adhibhootam) on earth. Jai Sri Krishna baiya sathyanarayan ------------------------------ HARIOM Lord Krishna said: The eternal and immutable Spirit of the Supreme Being is called Eternal Being or the Spirit. Basic nature, powers, and expansions of Eternal Being are called Adhy|tma or the nature of Eternal Being. The creative power or urge of Eternal Being that causes manifestation of the living entity is called Karma. (8.03) Mortal beings, made up of the five basic elements, are changeable or temporal. Various expansions of the Supreme Being are called Divine Beings. I, the Supreme Being reside inside the physical bodies as the Divine Controller and Supreme Enjoyer (Ishvara), O Arjuna. (8.04) THE FOLLOWING IS FROM ...... A WEBSITE WHICH ACCORDING TO RESTRICTIVE RULES OF THE GITA GROUP I AM NOT MENTIONING hariom roy ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hariom Royji, Next time feel free to include name of book/author if you like. We are unable to review content of links to know if appropriate for distributions to the sadhaks, and therefore not posting links. Thank you! From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ---------------------- Those new to the group, please review Gita Talk Guidelines from other messages. Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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