Satsang - Reading versus Practice; Web versus Physically Coming Together

January 10, 2009

Dear Sadhak,

What you have been writing so far, all is good. Said by God himself

and to be followed by Human being. Don't you think, it won't happen

only by reading. One has to practice it.

Unless one makes himself/herself free from all 6 problems -

kam/krodh/lobha/moha/mad/matsar nothing is going to work. You can

wake up a person who is sleeping. But what are you going to do with

the one who is acting like he is sleeping?

Sending e-mails may do only 1% job. People need to come together,

identify their problems, agree that they have problems and

willingness to change, then work on solving them.

I hope you understand what I say.

RAJESH PAWOOLKAR

-

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Sadhaks, If you have some thoughts around the issues that Rajeshji

has brought up, and how they can be better addressed by the gita-

talk group, we will be most interested in hearing from you.

In the past, at least once a year we have sent out an email to see

if individuals would like to start local satsang groups in their

City, but the response has been poor.

Also

If you prefer only one daily message from us, please inform us by

emailing and we can change your email setting. Thank you,

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

-

sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight

sadhaka

Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:32:54 AM

[sadhaka] The Eternal Essence - Part I (Jan 7, 2008)

: Shree Hari :

Ram Ram

7th January, 2009, Wednesday

Paush Shukla Ekadashi, Vikram Samvat 2065, Budhvaar

Upanishads declare that " THAT alone is the essence (of all) " ( " Raso

vai sah " Taittareeya 2/7). Every being's existence is rooted in that

very Eternal Truth that is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

Every being is rooted in the same Eternal Peace as itself and hence

is the same essence as such as purported in Ram Charita Manas:

|| Eesvar ams jeev abinaasee | Chetan amal sahaj sukh raasee ||

(Manas 7/117/1)

However, an individual tends to look for this essence in the sensual

and material objects and their enjoyment due to one's unquestioned

dependence on the body, sense and mind for experiencing the life in

general. The pleasure-borne essence naturally remains momentary

while the divine essence of The Absolute remains eternally vital.

The joy of life rooted in the pleasures is bound toward its

termination by nature. The joy of life established in The Truth, on

the other hand, is ever joyful and ever expansive by nature.

The essence perceived from one's pleasures is bound by two states -

union (Samyoga, sambhoga) and separation (viyoga, vipralmbha). Out

of the two, the joy of separation is preeminent over the joy of

union since the essence derived from a separation is not derivable

in the union. For example, actual joy of food remains in the

watering mouth of a hungry man rather than in the filled stomach

after a delicious meal. In fact, as one continues to eat, the taste

of the food exponentially drops down with every morsel of the food

passing into the stomach. The same delicacy may become hideously

tasteless if one forces to eat beyond one's capacity. However, the

delicacy of The Supreme is very different from this. It continues to

be the delicacy in its essence, in its presence as well in its

absence. Rather, it grows deliciously stronger and stronger to an

ardent seeker of The Truth - it neither spills over nor empties from

one's experience.

As one believes in (gives existence to) the essentiality and

supremacy of the pleasures in one's life, one subconsciously starts

developing a subtle attraction, liking and sweetness with the

delicacy of the world in one's life. This is called " Ras " (essence,

relish, juice, delight, pleasure, joy). A greedy person on getting

money and a lusty person on getting a sexual associate becomes

elated within - this remains the vital attraction " Ras " in life.

They exclaim gleefully after experiencing the pleasures, " that was

great! Very enjoyable and pleasurable! " " Badaa majaa aayaa! " This

exclamation always oozes out from one's memory, the warehouse of

one's ego (Aham, Chijjadagranthi) . The gross essence of such a joy

is rooted in desire that perpetually seeks pleasures from the world.

As far as one craves for joy in the worldly pleasures, till that

time one remains bound by dependancy on nature and it's activities

(i.e. one's actions, attitude as well as behavior and associated

objects). As one distances oneself away from such cravings, the

apparent dependency on pleasures for joy disappears and the inherent

slavery toward the worldly pleasures mitigates. (to be continued)

From " Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu " in Hindi page 165 by Swami

Ramukhdasji

Ram Ram

For NEW ENGLISH WEBSITE by Swami Ramsukhdasji, please visit:

http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. net

For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit:

http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

To gain clarification on related issues, please send your

doubt /issues to: @grou ps.com

To read online spiritual books, please visit:

http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org/swamijibooks /

To read all previous messages, please visit:

http://groups. / group/sadhaka/

P.S: Please pass on to friends and family. Remember ! There is no

greater service to humanity than bringing another person closer to

God, and you have that power in your hands right now.

January 11, 2009

Dear Sadhak,

What you have been writing so far, all is good. Said by God himself

and to be followed by Human being. Don't you think, it won't happen

only by reading. One has to practice it.

Unless one makes himself/herself free from all 6 problems -

kam/krodh/lobha/moha/mad/matsar nothing is going to work. You can

wake up a person who is sleeping. But what are you going to do with

the one who is acting like he is sleeping?

Sending e-mails may do only 1% job. People need to come together,

identify their problems, agree that they have problems and

willingness to change, then work on solving them.

I hope you understand what I say.

RAJESH PAWOOLKAR

-

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Sadhaks, If you have some thoughts around the issues that Rajeshji

has brought up, and how they can be better addressed by the gita-

talk group, we will be most interested in hearing from you.

In the past, at least once a year we have sent out an email to see

if individuals would like to start local satsang groups in their

City, but the response has been poor.

Also

If you prefer only one daily message from us, please inform us by

emailing and we can change your email setting. Thank you,

From Gita Talk Moderators

Ram Ram

-

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Some thouhts on Rajeshji's suggestions.

It is a very good reminder to all of us, not to get carried away!

Thank you Rajeshji.

As I see it, GT provides a platform to share wisdom by many sadhakas

of diverse background of what they have read or heard or

understood. This makes it far more valuable than simply reading

scriptures.

At least, on a personal basis, they must be putting it to practice.

The questions raised here are indicative of sincere desires and

efforts by them to put in practice.

Some of us may even have small group meetings, satsangee friends,

spiritual teachers, some ways to talk things over among friends and

family, all very helpful resources.

Regular posts by Mikeji, Vyasji, Shashikalaji, Nagaji, Varunji,

Vineetji, Sushilji, Ashokji, and many others who silently contribute

by asking " our questions " are of immense value in practice.

What does it mean to " put it in practice " ? Just consider this: We

almost always act according to what " we think we know or believe or

understand " . We may not know it, but we, as an individual, don't

have a choice ordinarily to act otherwise as we are conditioned to

act that way because it is best for us personally. The proof of this

is that before actions, thoughts and/or feelings are invariably

present based on what we already know.

Actually what " acts " through " us " is " our conditioning in the

disguise of our beliefs, our knowledge, our opinions etc " all taken

mistakenly as " us " .

It is possible we have never questioned our " understanding " nor

our " beliefs " and therefore, it is also possible to act in a way to

inflict misery on us and our loved ones.

Thus to me, the best thing is to keep on learning, understanding

deeply, questioning all beliefs, breaking away from conditioning

of " me " and " mine " , not to be satisfied until Truth is discovered.

In otherwords, give all you have to get correct understanding which

destroys naturally the incorrect notions, beliefs, etc acting

as " me " !

Once discovered, Truth Itself will creep up in our actions, our

behaviors, inspite of us as a " practioner " who is Itself now our

chariotter, like that of Krishna, to drive this carriage of Life on

the path of Divinity. Otherwise, the " me " covers itself

as " practioner " driving us.

One final comment on six problems mentioned here. Desires, anger,

greeed, envy, lust, attachment/aversions etc are like branches and

leaves of the tree of Life while sense of " me " , which is really the

sense of separation at the level of our consciousness, the ego as we

call it, is the Root of the tree of Life. As long as the root is

alive, branches and leaves keep getting nourishment, keep coming

back again and again. Root is to be destroyed(the message of Gita),

then and only then all branches and leaves will do away.

One may trim branches and leaves to make them look nice, but nice

ego is still an ego!

Namaskar.............pratap bhatt

-------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Human mind is so designed that it requires repetition to perfect

itself. Say-- To learn a poem one needs to study repeatedly few time

to by heart the poem. As a child when learning alphabets, it is

practiced over few times. In case of any study be it vedas, bio

chemistry, engineering, doctorate etc one can never remember what

studied only once. That is why there is examination to know whether

the student of any discipline has understood what studied. Even

studies of Sastras or vedas or Upanashids there was a guru to test

the student. For skill of archery (Bow and arrow use) Arjuna had

practiced over several times to be good at that art. One person

grasping power is different from other based on his karmas.

A person walking on rope in circus earlier practiced several times

falling from rope.That is why practice (called Sadana in divine

life) makes perfect. Sending E Mails, quoting sastras, advising

others on divinity are all sadanas. All cannot just abandon his

duties, renounce at one stroke at once, just sit and confine himself

to divinity. But there were very few can be counted. To study

doctorate one needs 6 years and make earning to survive. To achieve

that infinite Bramanand Godly state or to get mukthi it takes few

births for some and serveral births for many. We see in the world

that whole life span is just lost like that, in playing in

childhood, entertainment in teen age, study , get employed, get

married, have children and die peacefully. Referance Bajagovindam.

" But what are you going to do with the one who is acting like he is

sleeping? " is said rightly. You or me CANNOT do anything. Each one

has to put his own effort to eradicate 6 bad Gunas. Guru only is

guiding light. We have seen or know most bad charactered person

suddenly turned saint. It was his staunch and stern decision to

mend himself what may happen. But sadaks are only tools in the hands

of God to convey their message. Person who hears it or not, follows

it or Not, is NOThing to do with sadaks conveying message. Besides

as said by Bagavan, we sadaks do not want to have the fruits of our

message credited to us. Sadaks do it for Loka Kalyan. If our message

could transform 1% as said by RAJESH PAWOOLKAR, God is very happy

that a person is falling in the groove of transformation and not a

criminal.

What Rajesh said about Sat Sangh is effective. I have most puranas,

Vedas, Scripts in Audio, Almost all saints life histories in video

when used in a group on a hills amidst nature for Sat Sangh Mela

for 15 days, produced wonderful results. People intra gated,

questioned and got enlightened and started behaving like saadu. I

once mailed moderator to arrange such type Sat Sangh in which I can

give my divine library for that period. But there was no reply,

probably God did not want so.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

----------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Sathyanarayanji, we apologize if your email regarding the resource

library was overlooked. You may email us again regarding the

same... how to make these accessible? since this group has sadhaks

all over the world. Thank you for bringing this in the forefront

again! From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-------------------------------

-shree Hari-

At the end of consulting my homeopath, she often says I have enjoyed

our satsang, she is a Sikh, there you have it.

I teach 'T'ai Chi Ch'uan Ch'i Kung', at the end of the lesson, we sit

in a circle, I touch on the esoteric side of such, the Shen(Spirit),

the cosmic male and female principles and so on. I even float ideas

that come to me from this Divine Site, I am not evangelical, I

encourage response, I deal in such things in a very delicate manner,

respecting the different faiths people have. My wife then leads the

group into meditation, what would you call that?

Have you not heard the saying, 'The pen is mightier than the sword'?

What about the words of the poets, who place profound insights into

verse? : Auguries of Innocents, by William Blake, (English poet):

To see a World in a grain of sand,

And Heaven in a wild flower,

Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,

And Eternity in an hour.....

Pretty profound, worthy of any Zen Koan.

Words spoken are easily lost.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor

-------------------------------

i agree with Rajesh ji, talking and reading is a good place to

start, but one has not only to practice but also propagate this

great teachings. Gita verses 18.68-69 inspired Goyandka ji to

establish Gita press. we should all be a Goyandka in a small way !!

and do some work of putting Gita in every home by coming together.

Hariom Roy

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