On Being a Chaste Wife - to be Married Soon ! Seeking Advice!

[Guest guest]

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita, wherever possible and be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

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2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

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4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

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8. Do not personalize message

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Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

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[Guest guest]

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita, wherever possible and be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side Ram Ram

--------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita, wherever possible and be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrataa, blind faith in husband a rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Immense benefits in Pativrata - personal, family, societal, all of

mankind. Includes following Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-

being, harmony, peace, spreading fragrant happiness to all.

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

Ram Ram

--------------------------

-----------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita, wherever possible and be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

 

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Pativrataa, implicit faith in husband a rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, women can attain

realization - nothing else is needed

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- Giving Unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Immense benefits in Pativrata - personal, family, societal, all of

mankind. Includes following Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-

being, harmony, peace, spreading fragrant happiness to all.

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

 

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

OTHER -

 

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

Ram Ram

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Ram Ram

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Sadhaks, Since this is a Gita discussion group and there appears to

be no direct reference in the Gita related to this topic, other than similarity

in the sentiments of taking refuge in Bhagwaan (God), let us limit this

discussion to ONLY what is pertinent to help the

questioner. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================================

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

 

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

 

Ram Ram

 

 

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Kindly limit this discussion to ONLY what is pertinent to help the

questioner. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================================

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

 

Ram Ram

 

 

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Kindly limit this discussion to ONLY what is pertinent to help the

questioner. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================================

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Ram Ram

Due to significant back log of pending emails... ONLY RESPOND if

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From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================================

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

 

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how

to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you

praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

 

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,

MAAI SORI " ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

 

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be

having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

 

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with

your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

 

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows

them better than you.

 

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They

are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

 

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if

she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

 

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.

A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them

only prevents their natural death.

 

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served

us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent

of your husband before them. Serve them not as " your " Mother/

Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister

of " your " husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis

them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.

Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All

relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you

are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

 

10. Respect everyone, but be " devoted " to only your husband.

 

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,

listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to

the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

 

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money

on them. Love them really.

 

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come

what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't

want to comment " than " I don't know " , if you really know. Either

keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

 

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

home.

 

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are

required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working

more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes

stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else " work

load. " I will work, you take rest " – this should be the goal.

 

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self

by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

 

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this " dharma " is the easiest

for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances

definitely help.

 

Consider the followings:

 

JUST AS

 

1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never

demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.

She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will

arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.

She " naturally " does not worry.

 

SIMILARLY:

 

This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who

surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how

he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do

worries cease easily ? No !

 

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/

worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !

 

JUST AS

 

2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even

when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to

her mother - " I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties

without home food " .

 

SIMILARLY

 

A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is

supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our

experience proves that !

 

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe

pativrata dharma.

 

3 A newly wed lady " surrenders " everything- lock , stock and barrel.

Her home, her parents, her body, her " gotra " , her caste (surname),

her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,

her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.

Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,

everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

 

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he " surrenders " to

God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

 

Which one is easier?

 

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

things:

 

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee " does " by pondering over - I

am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic

and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change

it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

 

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

 

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a

wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.

I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

acceptance!

 

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in

acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than

other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not

God. I have duties towards him) " or " My husband is God " !

 

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In

both the cases " egolessness " is mandatory !! Then why not consider

hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified

independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?

Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

 

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------

When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he

should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a

`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating

her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him

and look after her children.

The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

society.

 

Gee Waman

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's

family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay

quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other

than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

 

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,

our personal experiences have proved that.

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving

husband to Pativrata

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Due to significant back log of pending emails... ONLY RESPOND if

previously not already covered by other sadhaks.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================================

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm.....

In regard to Vyasaji's inquiry, " Is there harm in seeing husband

as God " .....my response is many fold. Does husband want to be seen

as God? If he truly has qualities of a sadhak, then he would defer

from any open demand for such, giving example of humility, love,

affection, and a balanced human being. At the same time, I believe

that yes, truly, my husband, and any husband, in the heart desires

that the wife should see him as HER god. I do not have a problem

with that in any way.

 

The challenge for myself, I have found, is in remembering that

I am unceasingly, unendingly, without any hope of anything more, an

insignificant jiva soul struggling to find a way to overcome my ego

and illusion that I am the enjoyer and controller in this world.

Hence, I have begun a prayer, though it may not make sense to

all..... " May I always be blessed to have my Pati Ramachandra by my

side, and my Pati Ramchandra by my other side, and Sri Krsna who is

known as Madhava walking before me, though somewhat hidden, and my

Gurudeva, Srila Narayana Maharaj, always present as the air I

breathe, the ground I walk on, and the stars which attempt to tell

my destiny shining in the sky. "

 

He who is known as Krsna, who is known as Allah, Jehovah,

Adonai, Govinda, so many Names.....He is ever present, as the

Supreme Person, in the hearts of all. If we neglect to cultivate

our love and affection for Him, can we truly find satisfaction? I

personally do not think so. But then, everyone is not the same.

There are truly many women who will find total peace and contentment

in their husband who is beside them in this world, maintaining

them. There are many levels of love of God, and whatever level any

given person is on, that is perfect for that person.

 

" All glories to Sri Krsna Sankirtan, which cleanses the heart

of all the dust accumulated for years together....thus the fire of

conditional life, of repeated birth and death, is extinguished.

This sankirtan movement is the prime benediction for humanity at

large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is

the life of all transcendental knowledge, it increases the ocean of

transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar

for which we are always anxious. " (Siksastakam of Lord Sri Krsna

Caitanya....verse 1)

 

Mahalaxmi Dasi

---------------------------

Thanks and regards to Sashikalaji, diamonds of advice from you to

ladies. Being a lady, you experienced and poured them out of life

and heart. Easy to understand and are logical too. What you

mentioned here is not as a tattvavaada, but as a tattvadarsibhi!!

 

Perhaps points 7 and 11 need some more details on your direction, or

your advice can be misunderstood. Remember your advice is universal

and applicable to all daughter-in-laws.

I would tend to add for point 7 is 'do not reply, but understand her

before making your point', for 11 is 'listen and share your

appreciation on good and concerns on bad'. 'Ignoring' can cause

difficulties later. There has to be balance in relationship.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

--------------------------------

Pativrata means to be faithful to your husband. If she conducts

herself like this then her home will be like heaven. Her family will

prosper and by doing her duty she will be adding good karmas which

will definitely lead her to the right path and ultimately to

emancipation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's

family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay

quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other

than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

 

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,

our personal experiences have proved that.

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

- If we neglect to cultivate our love and affection for God, can we

truly find satisfaction?

- Prayer for blessings to walk alongside with husband, led and

guided by God and with presence of Guru at all times.

- Pativrata i.e. Faithful conduct will lead to good karmas,

righteous path, prosperous family, heaven on earth and ultimately

emancipation.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving

husband to Pativrata

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

 

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how

to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you

praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

 

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,

MAAI SORI " ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

 

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be

having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

 

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with

your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

 

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows

them better than you.

 

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They

are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

 

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if

she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

 

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.

A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them

only prevents their natural death.

 

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served

us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent

of your husband before them. Serve them not as " your " Mother/

Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister

of " your " husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis

them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.

Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All

relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you

are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

 

10. Respect everyone, but be " devoted " to only your husband.

 

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,

listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to

the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

 

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money

on them. Love them really.

 

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come

what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't

want to comment " than " I don't know " , if you really know. Either

keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

 

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

home.

 

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are

required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working

more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes

stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else " work

load. " I will work, you take rest " – this should be the goal.

 

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self

by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

 

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this " dharma " is the easiest

for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances

definitely help.

 

Consider the followings:

 

JUST AS

 

1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never

demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.

She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will

arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.

She " naturally " does not worry.

 

SIMILARLY:

 

This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who

surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how

he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do

worries cease easily ? No !

 

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/

worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !

 

JUST AS

 

2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even

when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to

her mother - " I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties

without home food " .

 

SIMILARLY

 

A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is

supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our

experience proves that !

 

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe

pativrata dharma.

 

3 A newly wed lady " surrenders " everything- lock , stock and barrel.

Her home, her parents, her body, her " gotra " , her caste (surname),

her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,

her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.

Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,

everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

 

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he " surrenders " to

God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

 

Which one is easier?

 

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

things:

 

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee " does " by pondering over - I

am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic

and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change

it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

 

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

 

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a

wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.

I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

acceptance!

 

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in

acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than

other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not

God. I have duties towards him) " or " My husband is God " !

 

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In

both the cases " egolessness " is mandatory !! Then why not consider

hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified

independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?

Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

 

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------

When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he

should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a

`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating

her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him

and look after her children.

The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

society.

 

Gee Waman

 

 

 

-------------------------------

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Rewritten

My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm.....

 

In regard to Vyasaji's inquiry, " Is there harm in seeing husband

as God " .....my response is many fold. Does husband want to be seen

as God? If he truly has qualities of a sadhak, then he would defer

from any open demand for such, giving example of humility, love,

affection, and a balanced human being. At the same time, I believe

that yes, truly, my husband, and any husband, in the heart desires

that the wife should see him as HER god. I do not have a problem,

provided the man accepts his own shortcomings, and does not pretend

to be something he is not.

But there is a vast difference between seeing my husband as my

own personal " god " , and recognizing him as the original, Supreme

Personality of Godhead. In as much as, one who has a drop of the

ocean in his palm, and thinks, " I have the entire ocean " is

certainly in illusion.....but at the same time, he or she certainly

does have the ocean in the palm of the hand!

There is too much abuse toward women today. I have personally

taken a course in domestic violence training. Although I recognize

the necessity for a wife to be vigilant at all times of her

husband's needs, in regard to being considered her worshipful deity,

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own

sense of what she considers appropriate conduct. There is a point

where men will demand things that are totally adharmic in the name

of, " surrender " . A woman in this age of kali yuga must be fixed,

within her own heart, in understanding the tenants of scripture, and

the process of elevating her heart, through sadhan, so that she can

help her husband. There will often be times, in most marriages,

where the man does not have perfect conduct. The idea of him

being " God " , with a capital " G " indicates that he can do no wrong.

I think that to try to act on this understanding is a big mistake.

But to accept him in the position of a " god " to the woman is a

different matter. Even the " gods " err at times, the Srimad

Bhagavatam is full of descriptions where they became enamoured of

their own power and beauty, committed offenses to their guru, and

then were cursed, or otherwise fell from their position.

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man

can be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated.

This takes maturity, strength, and power. Without this maturity,

there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

abused.

This is my answer to Vyasaji's question. I believe he is

coming from a position where he does not necessarily even imagine

the inappropriate conduct that males, coming forth from

disfunctional and irreligious backgrounds, can inflict on their

wives. It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, " Oh, well, it's

her karma " . Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and

physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a

while until he has some self control. I believe that will give more

emphasis to the woman's role of being the better half of her

husband, she is trying to help him in serving the Lord, correct?

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife? The Lord

says, " One who says he is my devotee is not my devotee, but one who

says he is the devotee of my devote is actually my bhakta " . This

goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service mood has

to be mutual.

I believe that to encourage a woman to have a bona fide guru, who

guides her to bhakti, linking with the Lord through devotion, will

allow her to discern how to treat everyone with humility and grace,

including her husband In the tenth canto of Srimad bhagavatm,

there were several wives of smarta brahmans, who against their

husbands desires, took food stuffs to Krsna and Balaram. The

husbands were too absorbed in their rituals to pay any attention to

the boys.

In this pastime, it is clearly explained that the wives were so dear

to the Lord, due to their willingness to accept His position, set

aside their dharmic relations, and serve Him regardless of any

external considerations.

 

respectfully,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

---------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

By the way , however he may be,

 

Is hubby not always in mind? Is he not a " real " Teacher? Is he not

Protector? Is he not Creator? Is he not Preserver? Is he not

Controller? Does he not carry the same burden which wife does? Like

God, does he not annihilate/destroy ego? Does he not prevail

ultimately? Does he not love ? Does anybody want to lose him? What

then is the difference between him and Him ? Does God not give

pains? Does God not rule? Does God not punish? Does God not instil

fear? Is God not authoritative? Does God not wash our eyes with

tears till they are clean enough to behold the reality?

 

What do you say dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakom

 

Vyasji asked a final question, in his latest response, on 'seeing

God in and treating husband as God'. This posting has taken many

turns and apparently is reaching this end - 'husband as God'. This

seems to be a logical for the discussion. When you treat 'husband'

or any body else for that matter as God, the standards mentioned

for 'pativrata', plus many more could be there, are a automatic fall

out of such belief. Spiritual-minded humans goal is to reach God and

there is no best way to treat the closest person with you as 'God',

in this case 'Pati' treating 'Patni' or Patni treating Pati as God.

Its the attitude, not the standards that make the way to Goal. Both

Pati and Patni have equal chance to win the game in this field of

spirituality. If my fellow saadhkom review the entire set of

responses on this topic, you would see a connection 'treat him or

her as God' is the basis for the responses.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Thanks and regards to Sashikalaji, diamonds of advice from you to

ladies. Being a lady, you experienced and poured them out of life

and heart. Easy to understand and are logical too. What you

mentioned here is not as a tattvavaada, but as a tattvadarsibhi!!

 

Perhaps points 7 and 11 need some more details on your direction, or

your advice can be misunderstood. Remember your advice is universal

and applicable to all daughter-in-laws.

I would tend to add for point 7 is 'do not reply, but understand her

before making your point', for 11 is 'listen and share your

appreciation on good and concerns on bad'. 'Ignoring' can cause

difficulties later. There has to be balance in relationship.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

--------------------------------

Pativrata means to be faithful to your husband. If she conducts

herself like this then her home will be like heaven. Her family will

prosper and by doing her duty she will be adding good karmas which

will definitely lead her to the right path and ultimately to

emancipation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's

family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay

quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other

than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

 

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,

our personal experiences have proved that.

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

- If we neglect to cultivate our love and affection for God, can we

truly find satisfaction?

- Prayer for blessings to walk alongside with husband, led and

guided by God and with presence of Guru at all times.

- Pativrata i.e. Faithful conduct will lead to good karmas,

righteous path, prosperous family, heaven on earth and ultimately

emancipation.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving

husband to Pativrata.

- there is no best way to treat the closest person with you

as 'God'. Simply speaking treat Him or Her as God.

- many similarities between Hubby and God !

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

 

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how

to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you

praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

 

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,

MAAI SORI " ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

 

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be

having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

 

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with

your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

 

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows

them better than you.

 

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They

are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

 

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if

she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

 

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.

A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them

only prevents their natural death.

 

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served

us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent

of your husband before them. Serve them not as " your " Mother/

Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister

of " your " husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis

them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.

Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All

relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you

are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

 

10. Respect everyone, but be " devoted " to only your husband.

 

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,

listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to

the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

 

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money

on them. Love them really.

 

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come

what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't

want to comment " than " I don't know " , if you really know. Either

keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

 

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

home.

 

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are

required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working

more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes

stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else " work

load. " I will work, you take rest " – this should be the goal.

 

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self

by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

 

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this " dharma " is the easiest

for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances

definitely help.

 

Consider the followings:

 

JUST AS

 

1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never

demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.

She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will

arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.

She " naturally " does not worry.

 

SIMILARLY:

 

This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who

surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how

he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do

worries cease easily ? No !

 

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/

worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !

 

JUST AS

 

2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even

when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to

her mother - " I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties

without home food " .

 

SIMILARLY

 

A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is

supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our

experience proves that !

 

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe

pativrata dharma.

 

3 A newly wed lady " surrenders " everything- lock , stock and barrel.

Her home, her parents, her body, her " gotra " , her caste (surname),

her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,

her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.

Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,

everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

 

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he " surrenders " to

God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

 

Which one is easier?

 

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

things:

 

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee " does " by pondering over - I

am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic

and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change

it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

 

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

 

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a

wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.

I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

acceptance!

 

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in

acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than

other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not

God. I have duties towards him) " or " My husband is God " !

 

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In

both the cases " egolessness " is mandatory !! Then why not consider

hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified

independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?

Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

 

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------

When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he

should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a

`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating

her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him

and look after her children.

The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

society.

 

Gee Waman

 

 

 

-------------------------------

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Due to significant back log of pending emails... ONLY RESPOND if

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In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

Shaliniji

Lot of thoughts have been expressed by experienced sadhak. They all

are precious.

I would say Have ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness,

undivided, feeling of oneness). THAT U TWO BECOME ONE ENTITY HAVING

TWO SHAPES COMPLIMENTORY TO EACH OTHER.

RAJA Gurdasani

----------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

I have nothing new to share except reiterating it in a different way

what has been already said...

Pati Parmeshwar OR Parmeshwar hi Pati?

It is ultimately paremshwar who is praised and prayed in pati.

Bhagwan said in BG, if you pray demi-god/goddesses, it reaches me!

So called pati in worldly sense is just a very miniscule one - no

different then patni - mamaivaansho jive loke...(BG)

If saint like Swami Ramsukhdasji has refrained himself from being

praised and worshipped , whom are we to promote pati ?

Meerabai was visiting a saint. He denied seeing a female.

Meerabahi send a message that there is only one male in this entire

universe, we all are female, who this new male has popped-up I do

want to see him... The saint came out of his hut feeling ashamed

and bowed down to Meerabai.

Just like patni has her duty to perform, pati equally has his - no

difference!

Just like pati is an atom of God, patni is too - no difference!

If patni can attain salvation worshiping parmeshwar in her pati

(demi-god), pati can too if he sees pareshwar in patni (demi-

goddess) - no difference!

Patni has been treated and worshiped as goddess in tantrik sadhanas,

nothing new!

Even Ramkrishna Parmhamsa worshiped his wife Ma Sharda as divine

mother. So break free of your notion of Pati Parmeshwar and attain

salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!

humble regards.

 

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

----------------------------

Please act according to your consciousness.

S S Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Mahalaxmiji ! Sadhak Venu in fact grasped the concept advanced by

Scriptures precisely in his latest post. It is a topic on which a

lot of precedences are available. Still I briefly reply to some of

your observations:

 

You say:

 

I do not have a problem, provided the man accepts his own

shortcomings, and does not pretend to be something he is not.

 

I say:

 

NO DUTY SEEKS RECIPROCATION FROM OTHER SIDE! YOUR DUTY IS OTHER's

RIGHT. This dharma is a " bhava " of wife. It has nothing to do with

the conduct of husband. Insistence upon hubby accepting his

shortcomings is inappropriate and egoistical. This is precisely

where this dharma helps wife. God will never make hubby admit his

shortcomings !

 

You say

 

There is difference between seeing my husband as my own

personal " god " , and recognizing him as the original, Supreme

Personality of Godhead.

 

I say

 

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? DOES " SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD " NOT

EXIST IN HUBBY? IS THERE ANY SPACE DEVOID OF GOD ? Even a space

equal to a tip of needle? One who can manifest from a pillar or

from a statue made of stone, can He not manifest in husband? By the

way God is always personal.

 

You say:

 

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own

sense of what she considers appropriate conduct.

 

I say:

 

THIS DHARMA CAN BE OBSERVED ONLY BY A " BHAVA/SENSE " OF WIFE THAT IT

IS AN APPROPRIATE CONDUCT.

 

You say:

 

There is a point where men will demand things that are totally

adharmic in the name

of, " surrender " .

 

I say:

 

Every sadhan requires you to become " egoless " . If hubby wants you to

do an " adharmic " conduct, do not obey him. Simple ! This dharma does

not require you to become servant or slave! Not at all ! Even God

does not expect you to be that.

 

You say:

 

There will often be times, in most marriages, where the man does not

have perfect conduct.

 

I say:

 

Where is the need for a perfect conduct from other side? Who is

perfect? Is wife perfect? Who has right to demand perfection? If

hubby seeks that in wife, he is wrong. But how does it matter to her?

 

You say:

 

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man can

be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated. This

takes maturity, strength, and power.

 

I say

 

Sure ! You have written too little. A great wife brings back her

husband from hell or even from jaws of Yama. She is POWER in

herself. She is 1000 times superior to males! She is SHAKTI.

 

You say:

 

Without this maturity,

there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

abused.

 

I say:

 

The hubby, however cruel he may be, will " actually " become God for a

devoted wife- ultimately-but as is the case with every other sadhan

after complete annihilation of her ego ! This is promise of Gita

and promise of all scriptures! Only the one who tries can know

this ! But in practice at the beginning itself generally a woman

surrenders and thus easily becomes egoless.

 

You say:

 

It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, " Oh, well, it's her

karma " .

 

I say:

 

Every marriage is made in heavens based on your prior contractual

obligations. Where is doubt on that? What else except " karma " of

each can be responsible for what happens in this world ? Is God that

cruel that He will let you suffer on account of others' whims and

fancies? Only the " doer " suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.

 

You say:

 

Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and

physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a

while until he has some self control.

 

I say:

 

Why until he has some self control? It is an individual decision. A

separate karma in itself. Another option is to leave him forever.

Another is to lodge a police complaint. Who says no?

 

You say:

 

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife?

 

I say:

 

We are talking here about the wife. Even when hubby is good to wife,

it is not necessary he is serving God.

You say:

 

This goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service

mood has to be mutual.

 

I say:

 

NO SERVICE MOOD CAN EVER BE MUTUAL. DUTY/SERVICE IS ALWAYS

UNILATERAL. One's duty is always right of other. Duty and Right are

opposite terms.

 

In any case, Mahalaxmiji, a female has as many options of God

Realisation as a male has. It is her prerogative and choice as to

which she adopts. Every human being is independent in performing

his/her karmas.

 

Pranaams

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Rewritten

My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm.....

 

In regard to Vyasaji's inquiry, " Is there harm in seeing husband

as God " .....my response is many fold. Does husband want to be seen

as God? If he truly has qualities of a sadhak, then he would defer

from any open demand for such, giving example of humility, love,

affection, and a balanced human being. At the same time, I believe

that yes, truly, my husband, and any husband, in the heart desires

that the wife should see him as HER god. I do not have a problem,

provided the man accepts his own shortcomings, and does not pretend

to be something he is not.

But there is a vast difference between seeing my husband as my

own personal " god " , and recognizing him as the original, Supreme

Personality of Godhead. In as much as, one who has a drop of the

ocean in his palm, and thinks, " I have the entire ocean " is

certainly in illusion.....but at the same time, he or she certainly

does have the ocean in the palm of the hand!

There is too much abuse toward women today. I have personally

taken a course in domestic violence training. Although I recognize

the necessity for a wife to be vigilant at all times of her

husband's needs, in regard to being considered her worshipful deity,

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own

sense of what she considers appropriate conduct. There is a point

where men will demand things that are totally adharmic in the name

of, " surrender " . A woman in this age of kali yuga must be fixed,

within her own heart, in understanding the tenants of scripture, and

the process of elevating her heart, through sadhan, so that she can

help her husband. There will often be times, in most marriages,

where the man does not have perfect conduct. The idea of him

being " God " , with a capital " G " indicates that he can do no wrong.

I think that to try to act on this understanding is a big mistake.

But to accept him in the position of a " god " to the woman is a

different matter. Even the " gods " err at times, the Srimad

Bhagavatam is full of descriptions where they became enamoured of

their own power and beauty, committed offenses to their guru, and

then were cursed, or otherwise fell from their position.

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man

can be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated.

This takes maturity, strength, and power. Without this maturity,

there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

abused.

This is my answer to Vyasaji's question. I believe he is

coming from a position where he does not necessarily even imagine

the inappropriate conduct that males, coming forth from

disfunctional and irreligious backgrounds, can inflict on their

wives. It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, " Oh, well, it's

her karma " . Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and

physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a

while until he has some self control. I believe that will give more

emphasis to the woman's role of being the better half of her

husband, she is trying to help him in serving the Lord, correct?

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife? The Lord

says, " One who says he is my devotee is not my devotee, but one who

says he is the devotee of my devote is actually my bhakta " . This

goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service mood has

to be mutual.

I believe that to encourage a woman to have a bona fide guru, who

guides her to bhakti, linking with the Lord through devotion, will

allow her to discern how to treat everyone with humility and grace,

including her husband In the tenth canto of Srimad bhagavatm,

there were several wives of smarta brahmans, who against their

husbands desires, took food stuffs to Krsna and Balaram. The

husbands were too absorbed in their rituals to pay any attention to

the boys.

In this pastime, it is clearly explained that the wives were so dear

to the Lord, due to their willingness to accept His position, set

aside their dharmic relations, and serve Him regardless of any

external considerations.

 

respectfully,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

---------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

By the way , however he may be,

 

Is hubby not always in mind? Is he not a " real " Teacher? Is he not

Protector? Is he not Creator? Is he not Preserver? Is he not

Controller? Does he not carry the same burden which wife does? Like

God, does he not annihilate/destroy ego? Does he not prevail

ultimately? Does he not love ? Does anybody want to lose him? What

then is the difference between him and Him ? Does God not give

pains? Does God not rule? Does God not punish? Does God not instil

fear? Is God not authoritative? Does God not wash our eyes with

tears till they are clean enough to behold the reality?

 

What do you say dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakom

 

Vyasji asked a final question, in his latest response, on 'seeing

God in and treating husband as God'. This posting has taken many

turns and apparently is reaching this end - 'husband as God'. This

seems to be a logical for the discussion. When you treat 'husband'

or any body else for that matter as God, the standards mentioned

for 'pativrata', plus many more could be there, are a automatic fall

out of such belief. Spiritual-minded humans goal is to reach God and

there is no best way to treat the closest person with you as 'God',

in this case 'Pati' treating 'Patni' or Patni treating Pati as God.

Its the attitude, not the standards that make the way to Goal. Both

Pati and Patni have equal chance to win the game in this field of

spirituality. If my fellow saadhkom review the entire set of

responses on this topic, you would see a connection 'treat him or

her as God' is the basis for the responses.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Thanks and regards to Sashikalaji, diamonds of advice from you to

ladies. Being a lady, you experienced and poured them out of life

and heart. Easy to understand and are logical too. What you

mentioned here is not as a tattvavaada, but as a tattvadarsibhi!!

 

Perhaps points 7 and 11 need some more details on your direction, or

your advice can be misunderstood. Remember your advice is universal

and applicable to all daughter-in-laws.

I would tend to add for point 7 is 'do not reply, but understand her

before making your point', for 11 is 'listen and share your

appreciation on good and concerns on bad'. 'Ignoring' can cause

difficulties later. There has to be balance in relationship.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

--------------------------------

Pativrata means to be faithful to your husband. If she conducts

herself like this then her home will be like heaven. Her family will

prosper and by doing her duty she will be adding good karmas which

will definitely lead her to the right path and ultimately to

emancipation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's

family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay

quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other

than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- act according to your consciousness.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless.

- THIS DHARMA CAN BE OBSERVED ONLY BY A " BHAVA/SENSE " OF WIFE

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

 

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,

our personal experiences have proved that.

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- A great wife is Shakti herself

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

- If we neglect to cultivate our love and affection for God, can we

truly find satisfaction?

- Prayer for blessings to walk alongside with husband, led and

guided by God and with presence of Guru at all times.

- Pativrata i.e. Faithful conduct will lead to good karmas,

righteous path, prosperous family, heaven on earth and ultimately

emancipation.

- ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness, undivided, feeling of

oneness). THAT U TWO BECOME ONE ENTITY HAVING TWO SHAPES

COMPLIMENTORY TO EACH OTHER.

 

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

- NO DUTY SEEKS RECIPROCATION FROM OTHER SIDE! YOUR DUTY IS OTHER's

RIGHT. This dharma is a " bhava " of wife.

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Only the " doer " suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- NO SERVICE MOOD CAN EVER BE MUTUAL. DUTY/SERVICE IS ALWAYS

UNILATERAL.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving

husband to Pativrata.

- there is no best way to treat the closest person with you

as 'God'. Simply speaking treat Him or Her as God.

- many similarities between Hubby and God !

- whom are we to promote pati? both can attain salvation worshiping

parmeshwar in each other. break free of the notion of Pati

Parmeshwar and attain salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

 

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how

to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you

praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

 

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,

MAAI SORI " ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

 

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be

having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

 

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with

your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

 

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows

them better than you.

 

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They

are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

 

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if

she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

 

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.

A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them

only prevents their natural death.

 

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served

us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent

of your husband before them. Serve them not as " your " Mother/

Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister

of " your " husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis

them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.

Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All

relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you

are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

 

10. Respect everyone, but be " devoted " to only your husband.

 

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,

listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to

the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

 

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money

on them. Love them really.

 

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come

what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't

want to comment " than " I don't know " , if you really know. Either

keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

 

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

home.

 

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are

required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working

more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes

stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else " work

load. " I will work, you take rest " – this should be the goal.

 

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self

by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

 

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this " dharma " is the easiest

for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances

definitely help.

 

Consider the followings:

 

JUST AS

 

1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never

demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.

She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will

arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.

She " naturally " does not worry.

 

SIMILARLY:

 

This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who

surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how

he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do

worries cease easily ? No !

 

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/

worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !

 

JUST AS

 

2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even

when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to

her mother - " I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties

without home food " .

 

SIMILARLY

 

A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is

supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our

experience proves that !

 

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe

pativrata dharma.

 

3 A newly wed lady " surrenders " everything- lock , stock and barrel.

Her home, her parents, her body, her " gotra " , her caste (surname),

her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,

her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.

Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,

everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

 

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he " surrenders " to

God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

 

Which one is easier?

 

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

things:

 

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee " does " by pondering over - I

am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic

and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change

it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

 

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

 

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a

wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.

I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

acceptance!

 

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in

acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than

other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not

God. I have duties towards him) " or " My husband is God " !

 

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In

both the cases " egolessness " is mandatory !! Then why not consider

hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified

independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?

Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

 

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------

When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he

should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a

`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating

her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him

and look after her children.

The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

society.

 

Gee Waman

 

 

 

-------------------------------

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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===================================================================

To Divine Brothers and Sisters

 

Thank you ! This little sister of yours could not have got a better

wedding gift. Each of my brothers and sisters were so right. Thank

You Vyasji and Raja Gurdasaniji in particular. Yesterday myself and

my fiance read the responses together. Oh ! They are so good. He has

agreed to be a " patnivrata " ! I said " Damn care " ! He assured me

that there will be no need for me to take a course in Judo or

Karate. I said " Damn care " !

 

Pranaams from both of us.

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

-------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

 

A concluding verse (often quoted by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ) :

 

JYON TIYA PEEHAR RAHE, PEE KO BHULE NAAHI !

 

AISE NAR JAG MAIN RAHE, HARI KO BHULE NAAHI !!

 

Just As: A married girl even while being in the home of her parents

never forgets her husband

 

Similarly: A male even while being in this world should never forget

Paramatma (Hari)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

-----------------------------

 

In India a lot of importance is given to " chaste wife " ( Pativrata).

I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?

Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get

emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

 

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in

second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from

this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

 

Shalini Bhardvaj

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

KINDLY SUGGEST ANYTHING THAT GITA SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT IN THIS

REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and

avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

=============================================================

NEW POSTING

 

 

 

Pavitra is the word meant for pious feelings and acts both inner and

outworldly.With malign to none,one should love all and that is the

way leading to God. So live life that way.

 

Sharma

---------------------------

Dear would-be-Patni,

Shubhashirwaad,

For a successful married life, it is necessary that it is a couple of

Pativrata and Patnivrat. After marriage the girl goes to her husbands

home i. e. husbands family, wherein she has to adjust with her in-

laws and other family members. She is Patni, Bahu, Bhabhi and so on,

and soon she is likely to be a mother, and each of her role has

certain duties and responsibilities. Whatever, she should not lose

her self respect. If any member of the husbands family is harrassing

her, she should deal with self-respect.

In many families, it is a custom to say, we have performed

`Kanyadaan` and now she no longer belongs to our family. Her fate is

bound with the husbands family. That outlook need be changed. Her

parents should always support her if she is harassed at her `Sasur`

 

---Gee Waman

 

---------------------------

Dear Sadhaks,

My contention is that notwithstanding the question of surrender and

devotion to husband, is this surrender not subject to the tenets of

the laws of Dharma? Should a wife allow the husband to trample her

personality and existence? I think this is not correct. I think that

the duties and rights of both are completely inter-changeable and

must be full of giving and serving rather than taking or expecting

any thing.

This is a maturation of a relationship where when there are no

desires from each other. In such a relationship one rises in love

rather than the cliched falling in love.

 

Vispi Jokhi

---------------------------

Based on the issues addressed by Mahalaxmiji and domestic violence, how to you

deal with a situations like that? Can she still follow dharma? What should a

person do if she encounters a hubby like that? What are the alternatives

available to her? Should she walk out of the home? What do scriptures state in

this respect?

 

Audrey

(RESPONSES TO THIS PORTION WILL BE POSTED AS A SEPARATE TOPIC. FROM GITA TALK

MODERATORS)

 

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shaliniji

Lot of thoughts have been expressed by experienced sadhak. They all

are precious.

I would say Have ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness,

undivided, feeling of oneness). THAT U TWO BECOME ONE ENTITY HAVING

TWO SHAPES COMPLIMENTORY TO EACH OTHER.

RAJA Gurdasani

----------------------------

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

I have nothing new to share except reiterating it in a different way

what has been already said...

Pati Parmeshwar OR Parmeshwar hi Pati?

It is ultimately paremshwar who is praised and prayed in pati.

Bhagwan said in BG, if you pray demi-god/goddesses, it reaches me!

So called pati in worldly sense is just a very miniscule one - no

different then patni - mamaivaansho jive loke...(BG)

If saint like Swami Ramsukhdasji has refrained himself from being

praised and worshipped , whom are we to promote pati ?

Meerabai was visiting a saint. He denied seeing a female.

Meerabahi send a message that there is only one male in this entire

universe, we all are female, who this new male has popped-up I do

want to see him... The saint came out of his hut feeling ashamed

and bowed down to Meerabai.

Just like patni has her duty to perform, pati equally has his - no

difference!

Just like pati is an atom of God, patni is too - no difference!

If patni can attain salvation worshiping parmeshwar in her pati

(demi-god), pati can too if he sees pareshwar in patni (demi-

goddess) - no difference!

Patni has been treated and worshiped as goddess in tantrik sadhanas,

nothing new!

Even Ramkrishna Parmhamsa worshiped his wife Ma Sharda as divine

mother. So break free of your notion of Pati Parmeshwar and attain

salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!

humble regards.

 

always at Thy Holy Feet

 

Manjula Patel

----------------------------

Please act according to your consciousness.

S S Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Mahalaxmiji ! Sadhak Venu in fact grasped the concept advanced by

Scriptures precisely in his latest post. It is a topic on which a

lot of precedences are available. Still I briefly reply to some of

your observations:

 

You say:

 

I do not have a problem, provided the man accepts his own

shortcomings, and does not pretend to be something he is not.

 

I say:

 

NO DUTY SEEKS RECIPROCATION FROM OTHER SIDE! YOUR DUTY IS OTHER's

RIGHT. This dharma is a " bhava " of wife. It has nothing to do with

the conduct of husband. Insistence upon hubby accepting his

shortcomings is inappropriate and egoistical. This is precisely

where this dharma helps wife. God will never make hubby admit his

shortcomings !

 

You say

 

There is difference between seeing my husband as my own

personal " god " , and recognizing him as the original, Supreme

Personality of Godhead.

 

I say

 

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? DOES " SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD " NOT

EXIST IN HUBBY? IS THERE ANY SPACE DEVOID OF GOD ? Even a space

equal to a tip of needle? One who can manifest from a pillar or

from a statue made of stone, can He not manifest in husband? By the

way God is always personal.

 

You say:

 

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own

sense of what she considers appropriate conduct.

 

I say:

 

THIS DHARMA CAN BE OBSERVED ONLY BY A " BHAVA/SENSE " OF WIFE THAT IT

IS AN APPROPRIATE CONDUCT.

 

You say:

 

There is a point where men will demand things that are totally

adharmic in the name

of, " surrender " .

 

I say:

 

Every sadhan requires you to become " egoless " . If hubby wants you to

do an " adharmic " conduct, do not obey him. Simple ! This dharma does

not require you to become servant or slave! Not at all ! Even God

does not expect you to be that.

 

You say:

 

There will often be times, in most marriages, where the man does not

have perfect conduct.

 

I say:

 

Where is the need for a perfect conduct from other side? Who is

perfect? Is wife perfect? Who has right to demand perfection? If

hubby seeks that in wife, he is wrong. But how does it matter to her?

 

You say:

 

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man can

be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated. This

takes maturity, strength, and power.

 

I say

 

Sure ! You have written too little. A great wife brings back her

husband from hell or even from jaws of Yama. She is POWER in

herself. She is 1000 times superior to males! She is SHAKTI.

 

You say:

 

Without this maturity,

there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

abused.

 

I say:

 

The hubby, however cruel he may be, will " actually " become God for a

devoted wife- ultimately-but as is the case with every other sadhan

after complete annihilation of her ego ! This is promise of Gita

and promise of all scriptures! Only the one who tries can know

this ! But in practice at the beginning itself generally a woman

surrenders and thus easily becomes egoless.

 

You say:

 

It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, " Oh, well, it's her

karma " .

 

I say:

 

Every marriage is made in heavens based on your prior contractual

obligations. Where is doubt on that? What else except " karma " of

each can be responsible for what happens in this world ? Is God that

cruel that He will let you suffer on account of others' whims and

fancies? Only the " doer " suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.

 

You say:

 

Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and

physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a

while until he has some self control.

 

I say:

 

Why until he has some self control? It is an individual decision. A

separate karma in itself. Another option is to leave him forever.

Another is to lodge a police complaint. Who says no?

 

You say:

 

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife?

 

I say:

 

We are talking here about the wife. Even when hubby is good to wife,

it is not necessary he is serving God.

You say:

 

This goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service

mood has to be mutual.

 

I say:

 

NO SERVICE MOOD CAN EVER BE MUTUAL. DUTY/SERVICE IS ALWAYS

UNILATERAL. One's duty is always right of other. Duty and Right are

opposite terms.

 

In any case, Mahalaxmiji, a female has as many options of God

Realisation as a male has. It is her prerogative and choice as to

which she adopts. Every human being is independent in performing

his/her karmas.

 

Pranaams

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Rewritten

My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm.....

 

In regard to Vyasaji's inquiry, " Is there harm in seeing husband

as God " .....my response is many fold. Does husband want to be seen

as God? If he truly has qualities of a sadhak, then he would defer

from any open demand for such, giving example of humility, love,

affection, and a balanced human being. At the same time, I believe

that yes, truly, my husband, and any husband, in the heart desires

that the wife should see him as HER god. I do not have a problem,

provided the man accepts his own shortcomings, and does not pretend

to be something he is not.

But there is a vast difference between seeing my husband as my

own personal " god " , and recognizing him as the original, Supreme

Personality of Godhead. In as much as, one who has a drop of the

ocean in his palm, and thinks, " I have the entire ocean " is

certainly in illusion.....but at the same time, he or she certainly

does have the ocean in the palm of the hand!

There is too much abuse toward women today. I have personally

taken a course in domestic violence training. Although I recognize

the necessity for a wife to be vigilant at all times of her

husband's needs, in regard to being considered her worshipful deity,

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own

sense of what she considers appropriate conduct. There is a point

where men will demand things that are totally adharmic in the name

of, " surrender " . A woman in this age of kali yuga must be fixed,

within her own heart, in understanding the tenants of scripture, and

the process of elevating her heart, through sadhan, so that she can

help her husband. There will often be times, in most marriages,

where the man does not have perfect conduct. The idea of him

being " God " , with a capital " G " indicates that he can do no wrong.

I think that to try to act on this understanding is a big mistake.

But to accept him in the position of a " god " to the woman is a

different matter. Even the " gods " err at times, the Srimad

Bhagavatam is full of descriptions where they became enamoured of

their own power and beauty, committed offenses to their guru, and

then were cursed, or otherwise fell from their position.

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man

can be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated.

This takes maturity, strength, and power. Without this maturity,

there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

abused.

This is my answer to Vyasaji's question. I believe he is

coming from a position where he does not necessarily even imagine

the inappropriate conduct that males, coming forth from

disfunctional and irreligious backgrounds, can inflict on their

wives. It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, " Oh, well, it's

her karma " . Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and

physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a

while until he has some self control. I believe that will give more

emphasis to the woman's role of being the better half of her

husband, she is trying to help him in serving the Lord, correct?

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife? The Lord

says, " One who says he is my devotee is not my devotee, but one who

says he is the devotee of my devote is actually my bhakta " . This

goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service mood has

to be mutual.

I believe that to encourage a woman to have a bona fide guru, who

guides her to bhakti, linking with the Lord through devotion, will

allow her to discern how to treat everyone with humility and grace,

including her husband In the tenth canto of Srimad bhagavatm,

there were several wives of smarta brahmans, who against their

husbands desires, took food stuffs to Krsna and Balaram. The

husbands were too absorbed in their rituals to pay any attention to

the boys.

In this pastime, it is clearly explained that the wives were so dear

to the Lord, due to their willingness to accept His position, set

aside their dharmic relations, and serve Him regardless of any

external considerations.

 

respectfully,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

---------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

By the way , however he may be,

 

Is hubby not always in mind? Is he not a " real " Teacher? Is he not

Protector? Is he not Creator? Is he not Preserver? Is he not

Controller? Does he not carry the same burden which wife does? Like

God, does he not annihilate/destroy ego? Does he not prevail

ultimately? Does he not love ? Does anybody want to lose him? What

then is the difference between him and Him ? Does God not give

pains? Does God not rule? Does God not punish? Does God not instil

fear? Is God not authoritative? Does God not wash our eyes with

tears till they are clean enough to behold the reality?

 

What do you say dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

--------------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakom

 

Vyasji asked a final question, in his latest response, on 'seeing

God in and treating husband as God'. This posting has taken many

turns and apparently is reaching this end - 'husband as God'. This

seems to be a logical for the discussion. When you treat 'husband'

or any body else for that matter as God, the standards mentioned

for 'pativrata', plus many more could be there, are a automatic fall

out of such belief. Spiritual-minded humans goal is to reach God and

there is no best way to treat the closest person with you as 'God',

in this case 'Pati' treating 'Patni' or Patni treating Pati as God.

Its the attitude, not the standards that make the way to Goal. Both

Pati and Patni have equal chance to win the game in this field of

spirituality. If my fellow saadhkom review the entire set of

responses on this topic, you would see a connection 'treat him or

her as God' is the basis for the responses.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

 

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Thanks and regards to Sashikalaji, diamonds of advice from you to

ladies. Being a lady, you experienced and poured them out of life

and heart. Easy to understand and are logical too. What you

mentioned here is not as a tattvavaada, but as a tattvadarsibhi!!

 

Perhaps points 7 and 11 need some more details on your direction, or

your advice can be misunderstood. Remember your advice is universal

and applicable to all daughter-in-laws.

I would tend to add for point 7 is 'do not reply, but understand her

before making your point', for 11 is 'listen and share your

appreciation on good and concerns on bad'. 'Ignoring' can cause

difficulties later. There has to be balance in relationship.

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

--------------------------------

Pativrata means to be faithful to your husband. If she conducts

herself like this then her home will be like heaven. Her family will

prosper and by doing her duty she will be adding good karmas which

will definitely lead her to the right path and ultimately to

emancipation.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

SUMMARY SADHAK RESPONSES:

 

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

A Pativrata wife is one who -

- Accepts " husband " as he is, and serves him through words, deeds

and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.

- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi

- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband

- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return

- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.

Nothing else is needed

- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her

husband.

- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.

- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side

- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct

- Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed

method for liberation/God Realization

- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost

all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing " Ego "

- " Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct

that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick

to in todays life.

- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

 

2.How does she conduct herself?

- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's

family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay

quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other

than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.

- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring

him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.

- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a

woman. (Gita Chapter 13)

- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most

naturally.

- act according to your consciousness.

- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless.

- THIS DHARMA CAN BE OBSERVED ONLY BY A " BHAVA/SENSE " OF WIFE

- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage

- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.

- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the

relationship.

- Respect and love the new family

- RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY

- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and

lead a contented life

 

 

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

- No ego clashes.

- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following

Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading

fragrant happiness to all.

- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is " Grihalaxmi " ! She

is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is " Shakti " .

- Obedient children

- Live a " Pavitra " life - pious feelings and acts both inner and

outworldly with being malign to none. One should love all and that

is the way leading to God.

 

 

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

 

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,

our personal experiences have proved that.

- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad

- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.

- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of

her own at all.

- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by

Paramatma.

- A great wife is Shakti herself

- principles of surrender leading to " egoless " , " desireless "

and " mamataless " (Gita 2:71)

- If we neglect to cultivate our love and affection for God, can we

truly find satisfaction?

- Prayer for blessings to walk alongside with husband, led and

guided by God and with presence of Guru at all times.

- Pativrata i.e. Faithful conduct will lead to good karmas,

righteous path, prosperous family, heaven on earth and ultimately

emancipation.

- ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness, undivided, feeling of

oneness). THAT U TWO BECOME ONE ENTITY HAVING TWO SHAPES

COMPLIMENTORY TO EACH OTHER.

- Bottom like is just like a married woman does not forget her

husband, similarly never forget Paramatama.

 

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?

- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole

world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting

anything.

- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with

Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take

away.

- It is unwillingness to observe " egolessness " or drop the ego that

prevents one from following this dharma.

- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.

- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)

- Do not give up your devotion to God

- Know yourself! All answers lie within!

- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme

Lord resides).

- NO DUTY SEEKS RECIPROCATION FROM OTHER SIDE! YOUR DUTY IS OTHER's

RIGHT. This dharma is a " bhava " of wife.

 

IS THERE REFERENCE IN GITA?

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in

Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this

subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in

times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she

cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.

 

OTHER -

 

- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a

compulsion.

- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi

- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays

together through good and bad times, and views other men as either

brother or father.

- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata

- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the

husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!

- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning

is " prior contractual obligations " .

- Marriage Vows- not " patni " - but beloved friend. Friendship, trust

is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.

- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important

- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth

- Be humble, loving and caring

- Become a daughter to the new family

- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the

best.

- It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural

- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind

and spirit

- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life

- " chastity " - monogamous relationship, brings social structure much

needed for healthy progeny.

- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?

- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected

to be? This appears male-oriented views.

- Only the " doer " suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.

- Acceptance by both families, without interference

- Sacred Mantra - " You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse

you have now " .

- Communication - Key

- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love

conquers all!

- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration

- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!

- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)

- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most

precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with

utmost care and love.

- NO SERVICE MOOD CAN EVER BE MUTUAL. DUTY/SERVICE IS ALWAYS

UNILATERAL.

- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma

- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are

biased

- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving

husband to Pativrata.

- there is no best way to treat the closest person with you

as 'God'. Simply speaking treat Him or Her as God.

- many similarities between Hubby and God !

- whom are we to promote pati? both can attain salvation worshiping

parmeshwar in each other. break free of the notion of Pati

Parmeshwar and attain salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!

- duties and rights of both are completely inter-changeable and must

be full of giving and serving rather than taking or expecting any

thing.

- maturation of a relationship where when there are no desires from

each other. In such a relationship one rises in love.

- In each of the married woman's roles there are certain duties and

responsibilities. she should not lose her self respect and deal with

situations with self-respect. If harassed, her parents must always

support her.

 

Ram Ram

 

------------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Jai Hanuman

 

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

 

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how

to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you

praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

 

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,

MAAI SORI " ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

 

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be

having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

 

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with

your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

 

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows

them better than you.

 

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They

are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

 

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if

she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

 

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.

A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them

only prevents their natural death.

 

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served

us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent

of your husband before them. Serve them not as " your " Mother/

Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister

of " your " husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis

them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.

Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All

relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you

are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

 

10. Respect everyone, but be " devoted " to only your husband.

 

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,

listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to

the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

 

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money

on them. Love them really.

 

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come

what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't

want to comment " than " I don't know " , if you really know. Either

keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

 

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

home.

 

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are

required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working

more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes

stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else " work

load. " I will work, you take rest " – this should be the goal.

 

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self

by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

 

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this " dharma " is the easiest

for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances

definitely help.

 

Consider the followings:

 

JUST AS

 

1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never

demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.

She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will

arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.

She " naturally " does not worry.

 

SIMILARLY:

 

This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who

surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how

he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do

worries cease easily ? No !

 

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/

worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !

 

JUST AS

 

2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even

when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to

her mother - " I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties

without home food " .

 

SIMILARLY

 

A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is

supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our

experience proves that !

 

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe

pativrata dharma.

 

3 A newly wed lady " surrenders " everything- lock , stock and barrel.

Her home, her parents, her body, her " gotra " , her caste (surname),

her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,

her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.

Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,

everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

 

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he " surrenders " to

God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

 

Which one is easier?

 

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

things:

 

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee " does " by pondering over - I

am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic

and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change

it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

 

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

 

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a

wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.

I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

acceptance!

 

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in

acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than

other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not

God. I have duties towards him) " or " My husband is God " !

 

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In

both the cases " egolessness " is mandatory !! Then why not consider

hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified

independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?

Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

 

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------

When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he

should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a

`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating

her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him

and look after her children.

The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

society.

 

Gee Waman

 

 

 

-------------------------------

Hello Shalini,

Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a

nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court

and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him

and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made

him regret his refusal.

Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.

If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no

matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your

husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength

of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be

as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to

your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head

should be your best guide.

Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by

your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-

law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from

your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your

mum-in-law from bullying you.

One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I

remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for

three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is

enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),

A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger

brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made

Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

 

Hope this helps some.

Prashanth

---------------------------

Hari Om.

The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is

MA SITA.

Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us

follow the foot steps of Sita.

THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian

marriage.

We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such

divinely qualities.

Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities

a man who follows krushna should have.

He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND

AHIMSA.

I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these

qualities.

The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital

points that we have to follow.

we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and

lead a contented life.

Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free

ourselves from lust,greed and filth.

We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will

strenthen our relationship.

In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.

It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.

Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will

vary.

But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage

is initiated.

The first step is RESPECT AND LOVE ELDERS IN THE NEW FAMILY.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before

advising)

(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

 

---------------------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,

With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept

that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her

husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service

to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have

phrased incorrectly)

I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this

type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad

Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as

referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although

service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is

bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to

husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to

God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my

own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her

association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,

that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up

dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing

control of his emotions.)

The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1

verse 40,

adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah

strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

 

" When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of

the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O

descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny. "

In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta

Swami, it is said, " The varnasrama religions's principles were so

designed that the good population would prevail in society for the

general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population

depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood. " also

mentioned, " On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the

women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is

indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men

also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood

the human race at the risk of war and pestilence. "

 

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's

society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the

leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,

due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their

mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are

many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words

of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth

mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you

understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please

forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

 

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from

appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for

society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not

emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,

or however an individual would refer to him as.

 

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am

familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse

34, where the Lord says, " Among women I am fame, fortune, fine

speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. "

Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who

possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute

devotion to God.

 

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where

devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter

gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to

emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

priority..18.65.....

 

" man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,

mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

 

" Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your

homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise

you this because you are My very dear friend. "

 

.....as well 18:66......

sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

 

" Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I

shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. "

 

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)

idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,

na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........

" This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are

not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to

one who is envious of Me. "

 

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an

austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to

be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the

motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not

the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.

Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi

 

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I

must state that from what I understood so far from the

deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks

this time on this question. I give a correction list which of

course is open for deliberation .

 

1 Pativrata Dharma is not " servanthood " at all. It is a " bhava "

(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy

Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan

Dharma. Servants are not called " Devis " / " mothers " / " Satis " /

Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are

ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

 

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma

than " practically impossible " ! I would agree if someone suggested

to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata

dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any

other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

 

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from

a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her

hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

 

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of

this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700

verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand

the " bhaavas " of Gita.

 

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the

duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-

similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one

who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan

relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN

SADHANS " Egolessness " is mandatory.

 

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female

the observance of " Pativrata Dharma " is the easiest, fastest, best,

the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that

purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the

contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this " dharma " for

female and of course the easiest.

 

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one

is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are

always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not

know/accept/believe that.

 

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it

is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

 

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!

True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular

dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?

Unbelievable !!

 

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or

Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold

true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

 

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,

colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines

are covered by it but not specifically named.

 

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond

logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-

is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /

unwillingness to observe " egolessness " . The supporters therefore

logically will not be able to accomplish any " saadhan "

as " egolessness " is mandatory everywhere !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

 

--

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

 

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but

in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

 

tasmac chastram pramanam te

karyakarya-vyavasthitau

jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam

karma kartum iharhasi

 

 

" Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture " .

 

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.

The " ideal of Women " comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,

Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving

Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

Sitaji:

 

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.

risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

 

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.

kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

 

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.

amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

 

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.

brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

 

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.

ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

 

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.

uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

 

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi

tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

 

Meaning:

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and

clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;

she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji

in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and

charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began

the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such

discourse " Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all

kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,

bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's

(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile

is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend

and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of

adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even

though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful

or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode

of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is

the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four

types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the

Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her

heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man

other than her husband.

 

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband

by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own

life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on

the subject. "

 

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The

scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be

safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming

that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

-------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing

glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself

by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the

role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task

is a male's " Service to his parents " . Both are INDEPENDENT

GUARANTEED METHODS OF LIBERATION/GOD REALISATION - if done as one

does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as

per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household

duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather

difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his

parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite

easy to devote exclusively her " bhavas " (inner expressions) towards

her husband.

 

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG

4:11 ( first part " ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva

bhajamyaham " ) and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.

In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of

being " egoless " , " desireless " and " mamataless " is achieved faster.

(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have

picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if

they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss

additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many

more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good

exercise )

 

BG 7: 19 principle of " all this is God " - Vasudev Sarvam , allows

wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is

definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her

husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

 

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I

respond/approach them.

 

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her

on account of her worship to her husband only.

 

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife

has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her

husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is

surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other

divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,

charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the

natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come

very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to

her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

 

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

 

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an

option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She

may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her

devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a

difference between " devotion " and " duties " . There too she has to

consider husband as God's representative and do same " chop wood and

carry water " but with a different " bhava " .. Here she sees husband

as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata

dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a

remotest clash here.

 

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and

without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts

meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita

verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Namaste

 

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and

naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to

specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be

primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as

per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which

is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and

cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common

feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and

half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

 

Asha Verma

 

----------------------------

" Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife " is the complete seNse in

PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

 

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita

corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return

home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in

her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no

equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the

pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of

Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a

sativrata; that' all.

Dr Shastry

-----------------------------

Dear Shaliniji,

Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama

visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked

Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that

by following Pativrata Dharma, & she explained the same to

Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically

impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that

even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.

According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

 

jay Shrikrushna

Anand Joshi

----------------------------

Dear All,

 

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different

languages. you can go through them. Like -

Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm

Adarsh Nari Sushila

Nari Shiksha

Bhakta Nari

Nari Dharma

Nari Ank

 

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and

goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

 

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------------

Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

 

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,

Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management

and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the

word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or

castes or religions even.

 

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role

of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response

offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

intent.

 

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take

the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and

obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to

each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps

your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray

God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

 

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God

as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can

combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in

each other to begin with.

 

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you

and your marriage.

 

 

Regards

Venu Komanduri

----------------------------

Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank

you, Ram Ram

 

----------------------------

----------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhika,

Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,

friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a

pativrita.

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?

Accepting " husband " as he is, and serving him through words, deeds

and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who

follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.

2.How does she conduct herself?

She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most

obedient, humble servant of her husband.

3.How does her conduct impact her home?

No ego clashes.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely

because she is Pativrata?

Its not " merely " . This is a path of complete surrender, where wife

has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind

of " tapa " . Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband

only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti

yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

 

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that

accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form

(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am

God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr

husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting

anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving

egolessly, considering everyone as God's.

Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.

with best wishes and Love,

a sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

------------------------------

 

Hari Om

 

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this

question. However as I see majority of the responses insist

for " ideal combination " . That is against the very concept, very

theme, very reality of marital life. " Marriages are made in

heaven " . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor

functioning is " prior contractual obligations " . Otherwise how can

two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that

later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction

between two souls.

 

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.

She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of

her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles

of " surrender " to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The

more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.

Hence let the discussion not insist on " bilateral " conduct.

It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How

wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a

wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,

Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

 

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets

emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and

principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

 

Look at the end result:

 

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a

power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power

that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person

in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is " Grihalaxmi " !

She is " Annapurna " (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She

is " Shakti " . Her children are always obedient. She gets universally

respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough

to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the

ultimate Lady !

 

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

------------------------------

My humble respects to all in this forum.

I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't

always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of

experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in

a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own

self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness

comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our

hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is

remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice

versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?

Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of

being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to

relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we

know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our

relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence

that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always

be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this

world....watch out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our

focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married

life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being

able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite

books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,

but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship

with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my

opinion......as the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

 

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,

suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala

bhajana kame,

kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,

jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera

samsara,

karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,

karma chadaite keha nare,

sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,

yanra krpa bhakti dite pare

chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana

tara kahe niskapati rati

 

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati

Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my

consciousness..... " karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm

bhoga " .....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,

yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves

produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh

newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,

for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If

the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily

give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man

is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is

certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate

to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see

one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

guidance/association.

 

respectfully submitted,

Mahalaksmi Dasi

------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only

woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled

by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman

need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha

Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband

(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,

Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s

sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It

is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated

towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I

mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these

Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?

By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to

bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,

Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On

contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying " Look

at your son " . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they

have wonderful qualities.

May be some woman are not.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

 

 

------------------------------

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

There could be millions of questions.....

The answer is one.......Know yourself.....

You have all the answers......

 

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....

the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

 

Sushil Jain

-----------------------------

Hari Om

 

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other

party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or

Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent

on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not

dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no

duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.

Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

effect.

 

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj

(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in

fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised

Parmatma in one life time )-

 

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born

as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE

GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

 

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking

God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.

No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.

Nothing except " becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body " !

 

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a

special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very

respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.

If husband luckily is " hard/tough nut " then very very fast also.

 

Simple rule is:

 

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

 

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

 

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On

the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I

don't see much difference between principles involved in " surrender "

under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

 

To be contd

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we

belong to Paramatma.

 

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and

pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

 

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try

to use their position to exploit others.

 

Remember at all times --

 

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

 

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do

your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

 

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

 

Best wishes for your marriage.

Gaurav Mittal

 

------------------------------

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice

given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian

womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,

Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and

many others.

 

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the

husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of

education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,

etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal

qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,

financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's

family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be

any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the

marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to

incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's

family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly

the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be

restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful

inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .

Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .

Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

 

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's

family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in

the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,

equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,

sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense

of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

 

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the

girl to be " patibrata " and the boy must also be " patnibrata " in the

same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the

husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean

the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not

socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if

he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in

that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and

attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother

must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

love.

 

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a

willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be

thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,

mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is

utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,

laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No

problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

qualities.

 

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as

her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own

and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in

the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a

negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all

right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

 

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit

of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share

unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with

the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl

must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is

young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what

is that a big deal ?

 

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's

parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here

must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the

services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the

maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of

gratitude and love.

 

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving

unconditionally without any expectation of return " . This is very

hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in

such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

 

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,

may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual

gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level

of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the

girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .

similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes

incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her

maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual

gratification outside.

 

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

equanimity.

 

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are

the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,

meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the

God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD " .

Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional

love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the

vision of ' dance of Shiva'

 

rathindra prasad lahiri

-----------------------------

KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any

references.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------

Namastey,

 

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that

pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

 

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male

dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati

to be chaste!!

 

Ramesh. M. Jhalla

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadaks,

Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means

a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does

anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes

total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:

1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her

husband was bad.

Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as

her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But

the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was

stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very

auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another

lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make

Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady

could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother

cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it

happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and

bring back her husbands life.

In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long

life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.

They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will

happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one

such lady I closely know.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being " chaste

wife " , but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few

things that may help.

We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving

and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man

or wife.

If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so

others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.

It should not be a burden to become " chaste wife " , rather natural.

How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to

fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and

therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the

other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and

spirit.

The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is

being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso

fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and

families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical

problems or boredom or blame game played by both.

So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right

from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the

process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).

When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you

did.

Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful

aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling " my

spouse loves me the most " !

I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,

specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. " You cannot

get a better spouse than the spouse you have now " . It may seem very

hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and

anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself

again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just

wait.

As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste

ourselves.

Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by

overcoming " I am not going to talk to you now " feelings.

Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he

may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.

Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.

Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love

for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

 

Lot of benefits.

 

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the

scriptures.

(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.

(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they

will grow up

like healthy kids.

(4) The family will remain organised.

(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.

(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'

(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.

(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

Lord.

 

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of

the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing

factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

disorganisation'

 

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we

have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised

psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in

relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

 

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

 

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

-----------------------------

Dear Shalini,

 

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the

Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.

The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the

path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the

husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks

devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has

done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised

that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva

brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to

ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a

woman " demands " to be " paid " for her services as a " wife " she

ceases to be one and becomes a " vaisha " . Janaka tells Rama that Sita

is his sahadharmachari.

 

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding

vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife

during the course of taking the vows- not " patni " - but beloved

friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the

cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament

of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The

" walking " of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The

focus is on the " divine " .

 

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is " chastity " - of

being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure

much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family

and state.

 

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

 

Meenakshi Srinivasan

 

-----------------------------

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities

of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat

with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body

can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try

to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings

and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party

In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous

ceremony done during the marriage.

If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will

not be any barrier in your life.

My best wishes to you both

If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage

Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south

India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions

Thanks

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

-------------------------

Dear shalini,

As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only

with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who

knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and

great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped

sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30

years.

What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This

chastity business is something which every religion including

Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It

is upto you as human to decide.

 

captain Johann samuhanand

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Sister,

 

In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.

So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man

other than her husband.

 

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as

father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without

breaking relation is enough.

 

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are

available in market.

 

blessing yours

kalrav pande

-----------------------

 

 

On being a chaste Wife

My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per

our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri

Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most

apt.

rathindra prasad lahiri

------------------------

Sita is an example

Provided there is Ram on other side

Dinesh Patel

-------------------------

 

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Ram Ram

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