GITA on Development and Social Change - Lessons/Teachings

[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

 

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

FEEDBACK NEEDED -

 

New posting only? (Y/N) -

Entire string on topic ? (Y/N) -

 

Past postings can be viewed by visiting the group's site.

/

Your feedback is greatly appreciated for continuous improvement.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

Shree Hari Ram Ram

SUMMARY OF ALL SADHAK RESPONSES

- Request unclear - on what needs to be taught?

- Vastness of scriptures, in terms of even reading one subject is

beyond comprehension, therefore need further clarity

- Need to look at many other Puranas and Bhagavatam to cover Kaliyug

and changes - social/development

- Resources available - mostly location dependent; interfaith-net

 

--------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear sadaks,

What exactly Mr.Shailesh Shukla wants is not clear. There are 108

Divya Desams, 108 Upanashids, then puranas, scripts, and saints

histories Etc. These give details from creation, Sri Vishnu (Vishnu)

meant omnipresent and power of sustainence, Sri Shiva comes next who

is incharge of Pancha Boothas and destruction, 33 crore demi Gods

controling the whole universe of ours, systems on which they

operate, life span of this earth, 27 stars that gives DNA for all

living beings to perform their Karmas, subjects like black hole, 13

other galaxies and their world, the theory of creation of all living

being 6 stages of birth to death with each stage described clearly,

human conscience to know past present and future and liberation from

taking a form (birth), but ability to take austrial body (Form) or

disappear like Jesus. Ancient school of education on Vedas insisted

students of any discipline from young age to join Ashram leaving

their homes. Most ashram was established in location depending on

Vastu Sastra, herbal surrounding and where rich Ozone layer existed.

recent finding of London reasearch Institute says that Ozone tunes

the body healthy condition as Air (Prana) is vital to brain for

acquiring and remembering what is imparted. Hinduism is for humans

and all living beings irrespective of caste or creed. In Veda

Distance in space is described, " Yogana " . This is Lakhs of Km to

travel in second (Shanam). I presume Indus valley people most

ancient were taught vedas, which became Hinduism. Much later came

Christianity, Buddhaism, Jainism, Etc. named after it` s Guru.

Later came 12 Alwars (Prominent Vaisnavite) and 63 Nayanmars

(Shivites) and still later GODHOOD Bakthas.

Now teachings on 63 arts of Knowledge one takes 10 years or more.

But Sri Krishna learnt from Guru Sandeep in 63 days. Sri Krishna

brought Sandeepan son who died years ago from heaven. The same Sri

Krishna brought 9 children of a Brahmin from Sri Vaikunt who died

and were buried earlier. There is concept of pure knowledge given in

it. Simple engineering on one particular subject needs 5 years. What

exactly this Sadak wants to teach in Canada ?

 

I have access to extensive library and accumulated books/audio etc.

They are not on the net. Where are you located?

Jai Sri Krishna.

baiya sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shailash Shukla

For books on Inter faith subjects and discussions about all

religions of the world and Hindu sources, let me know.

Gita is the sum and substance of many scriptures of Hindu Religion

It can help you to get directions for being happy and spiritual

Where are you currently located?

 

Thanks,

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

------------------------------

Dear Shri S.Shukla

 

Gita is not enough if you can buy puranas like shreemad devi

bhagvatam, vishnu purana, markandeya purana, bhavisya purana you

will understand especially reading segments on Kaliyuga that were we

stand now that will explain you social change, change and

development.

 

I think sociology is best visible in puranas. go through few will

help you.

 

you according to shastras are in swarga lokasie Canada. Enjoy

company of devatas

 

bye

kalrav pande

-------------------------------

 

FEEDBACK NEEDED -

 

New posting only? (Y/N) -

Entire string on topic ? (Y/N) -

 

Past postings can be viewed by visiting the group's site.

/

Your feedback is greatly appreciated for continuous improvement.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

NEW POSTING

 

Shuklaji's Canada Lecture on Gita : Change & Development

Although everyone is right that we need clarity about what Shuklaji

really needs, it get an urge to respond to him.

Gita is all about life. The illusion of Maya keeps us attached to

all changes and development in the external enviornment and our

individual lives.

What Gita sayings amount to in this context is:

1. The change and development that we see around is not under our

control and will happen irrespective of what we wish or desire.(that

Arjun has to fight against his relatives and Gurus and there will be

death all around because of the War at Kurukshetra)

2. There is no alternative but to accept all changes and

developments instead of wasting time and and energy about whether

the change/ development is desirable or not. (that Arjun will have

no option but to fight)

3. The only reason that should give comfort to one about what he is

forced by circumstances to do is the call of duty to play one's part

as per own's instinctive property

(as a born/ grown warrior, Arjun's instinctive dharma is to fight

war as all others in the Kaurava side are doing).

4. One's duty is nothing but what one is compelled to do as per the

great design of God. One's response to change is ordained by the

internal properties (dharma) and influence of internal properties (

the mixture of the the three Gunas - Satva, Rajas and Tamas).

5. Whether one is proud or confident or diffident or sad, one has no

alternative but to do his duty.

6. While one's duty may have some ex-ante objectives/ goals and

one's actions may have good/bad consequences, the duty is better

performed when it is done without thinking about desired objective

to be realized or the likely consequences.

7. The person who happens do his duty with detachment from the

desires to be fulfilled and consequences of one's own doing

contributes more effectively to the mission for which God has

created him/ her.

8. Changes are things that are certain: realisation of goals/

objectives/ desired consequences are only probabilities.

9. So, one feels better when one participates in the change in the

development with detachment and duty as per one's own properties -

inherent or imparted by the environment.

10. Even God almighty has to participate in the change/ development

( Sambhavami Yuge Yuge and cycle of exceesive oppression and justice

and equality are all but part of the very nature of Maya-dominated

world ).

11. Despite all the changes and developments that Maya forces us to

observe and get temporary happiness or sadness), there is no change

in the Fundamental Reality of absolutely No Change in the inner core

of the Creation All forms and differences that appear under the

influence of separate ego/ identity is the influence of Maya. In

ultimate reality all these are nothing but one - split into slices

of different kinds/ forms and recomposed in various permutations and

combinations to create the illusion of differences in identities.

12. Thus all changes - physical. mental, material, spritual, social

etc. are all illusion: the reality is the continuous transformation

of the same single constant yet infinite, indestructible,

indivisible power that we define as God.

13. Participate one will, without any free choice, in the

developments and changes in this great, continuous transformation

process. For, all forms and identities are nothing but temporary,

transient snapshots of the same single core.

I know it is difficult to teach all the above and yet appear

sensible and meaningful to the students. You may need a different

pedagogy. The pedagogy adopted by Krishna to teach Arjun at

Kurukshetra.

Warm regrads to all.

Basudeb Sen

-------------------------

Dear Shukla Ji,

Shri Gita is a divine revolutionary scripture aimed for social

change in right path. As you know the society at the time of

Kaurava's regime was fully rotten and stinking. Women had no place

of respect. Wine, Mine and thine (Mamakah Pandavachev : Shri Gita

1/1) were prevailing vehemently. You may be knowing that God Krishna

was a great social reformer and number one communist in real sense

of term. He used to steal butter for other friends not for himself.

Nand Baba had lakhs of Milch Cows. There was no need for theft of

milk or butter or Mishri. On one hand it was Lila ( playful divine

activity) and on other hand there was implied teaching. God Krishna

showed how to distribute the acquired things among others instead of

only for self-accumulation. " Sarv Bhoot Hiteratah " was his motto.

this anushtup chchand has come twice in Shri Gita. Welfare of all

human being was his slogan. In fact, Shri Gita.many books can be

written on the subject of Social Change based on Shri Gita. Swami

Ranganathanand from Ramakrishna Mission had written a

multivoluminous book titled " Eternal Values for a Changing Society "

is a very good work on this. Dear Shuklaji, if you start reading

Shri Gita daily depending upon your capacity, you will start

thinking in broad (Virat) perspective with new social welfare ideas

every minute and making your own life highly elevated and dancing

with God Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna

Mahesh Sharma

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

This forum is capable of giving you infinite inputs, provided you

give us slightly more specific area. As Sadhak Sathyu narainji

stated you are too general to be replied. Naturally, one can't

reproduce Scriptures upon Scriptures. Give specifics and you get

what would help you in your task.

" Development and Social Change " in itself doesn't convey anything !

Kindly take one step further ! As Simple as that !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Shailesh Shukal Ji,

My Sadar Pranam to you and all,

 

We, who were habitant of Indus valley in the ancient time were/are

called as Hindus during the Mogul and British rule. The following (

ism) of the Sanathan Dharma was named as Hinduism and the followers

were called as HINDUS. Sanathan Dharma is for the humanity and is

not bound by any race, age or country.

Sanathan Dharma provides us Yama , Niyams for the human and a manual

on how to, live as a Human having main 4 parts known as 4 Vedas.

 

Per Bhagavat Gita spoken by Lord Krishna, is mainly divided into

three main Yogas - Karma Yoga, Gyan Yoga, and Bhakti Yoga. a must

requirement for every human to undersatnd and apply in daily life.

 

One who is novice to any religion must understand the origin, the

creation,the How to manual (Vedas) , Yama and Niyams, etc.and the

purpose of the birth as a Human.

 

To acquire any knowledge needs some dedication and time. So you as

a teacher must acquire and understand before you pass on the divine

knowledge to students. You are the best judge on the time require to

understand the divine knowledge. You have a divine opportunity to

pass on this divine.knowledge to humans seekers.

 

My best wishes to you in your Yagna and may the success be with you..

 

Please let me know if you would like a presentation on this, and you

can decide if you can use this for preliminary knowledge. This may

not have all the answers.

 

I thank you for this Divine opportunity.

 

Om Sai Ram

 

KAMLESH KUMAR

HELP EVER HURT NEVER

HAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL

 

--------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

SUMMARY OF ALL SADHAK RESPONSES

 

- Change is a Certainty. It is inevitable. It is not in our control,

therefore ACCEPT change, do not waste time on desirable or not, do

the call of duty, what one is required to be done, without thinking

of desired objective, with detachment. All changes are illusory;

snap-shots. But one must participate

- There is no change in the Absolute Reality

- Welfare of all human being is the Gita slogan. " Sarva

Bhutehiterataah "

- Sanatana Dharma - for all of humanity. 4 vedas, 3 main yogas.

Purpose of Human birth important to understand.

- Request unclear - on what needs to be taught?

- Vastness of scriptures, in terms of even reading one subject is

beyond comprehension, therefore need further clarity

- Need to look at many other Puranas and Bhagavatam to cover Kaliyug

and changes - social/development

- Resources available - mostly location dependent; interfaith-net

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear sadaks,

What exactly Mr.Shailesh Shukla wants is not clear. There are 108

Divya Desams, 108 Upanashids, then puranas, scripts, and saints

histories Etc. These give details from creation, Sri Vishnu (Vishnu)

meant omnipresent and power of sustainence, Sri Shiva comes next who

is incharge of Pancha Boothas and destruction, 33 crore demi Gods

controling the whole universe of ours, systems on which they

operate, life span of this earth, 27 stars that gives DNA for all

living beings to perform their Karmas, subjects like black hole, 13

other galaxies and their world, the theory of creation of all living

being 6 stages of birth to death with each stage described clearly,

human conscience to know past present and future and liberation from

taking a form (birth), but ability to take austrial body (Form) or

disappear like Jesus. Ancient school of education on Vedas insisted

students of any discipline from young age to join Ashram leaving

their homes. Most ashram was established in location depending on

Vastu Sastra, herbal surrounding and where rich Ozone layer existed.

recent finding of London reasearch Institute says that Ozone tunes

the body healthy condition as Air (Prana) is vital to brain for

acquiring and remembering what is imparted. Hinduism is for humans

and all living beings irrespective of caste or creed. In Veda

Distance in space is described, " Yogana " . This is Lakhs of Km to

travel in second (Shanam). I presume Indus valley people most

ancient were taught vedas, which became Hinduism. Much later came

Christianity, Buddhaism, Jainism, Etc. named after it` s Guru.

Later came 12 Alwars (Prominent Vaisnavite) and 63 Nayanmars

(Shivites) and still later GODHOOD Bakthas.

Now teachings on 63 arts of Knowledge one takes 10 years or more.

But Sri Krishna learnt from Guru Sandeep in 63 days. Sri Krishna

brought Sandeepan son who died years ago from heaven. The same Sri

Krishna brought 9 children of a Brahmin from Sri Vaikunt who died

and were buried earlier. There is concept of pure knowledge given in

it. Simple engineering on one particular subject needs 5 years. What

exactly this Sadak wants to teach in Canada ?

 

I have access to extensive library and accumulated books/audio etc.

They are not on the net. Where are you located?

Jai Sri Krishna.

baiya sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shailash Shukla

For books on Inter faith subjects and discussions about all

religions of the world and Hindu sources, let me know.

Gita is the sum and substance of many scriptures of Hindu Religion

It can help you to get directions for being happy and spiritual

Where are you currently located?

 

Thanks,

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

------------------------------

Dear Shri S.Shukla

 

Gita is not enough if you can buy puranas like shreemad devi

bhagvatam, vishnu purana, markandeya purana, bhavisya purana you

will understand especially reading segments on Kaliyuga that were we

stand now that will explain you social change, change and

development.

 

I think sociology is best visible in puranas. go through few will

help you.

 

you according to shastras are in swarga lokasie Canada. Enjoy

company of devatas

 

bye

kalrav pande

-------------------------------

 

FEEDBACK NEEDED -

 

New posting only? (Y/N) -

Entire string on topic ? (Y/N) -

 

Past postings can be viewed by visiting the group's site.

/

Your feedback is greatly appreciated for continuous improvement.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying to get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

NEW POSTING

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

Suggest a good reference - Book titled, " The Social Role of the

Gita, How and Why " by Satya P. Agarwal, Prof. at the center of

South Asian Studies at Barkeley, California.

 

Topics covered:

 

Part I includes: " Case Studies of Social Applications of Karma

Yoga " - Chapters are:

1. Leaders of Social Movements in India: Selective Identification

for Case Study

2. Raja Rammohan Roy: using the Gita for Social Reform

3. Swami Vivekanand: Institutionalizing the Karma-Yoga-Based Socio-

Spiritual Approach

4. Loka Manya Tilak: Orienting the Gita to Swaraj and Lokasamgraha

5. Aurobindo: Extending Karmayoga to Puranayoga

6. Mahatama Gandhi: Adopting Ahimsa to Achieve Lokasamgraha and

Satya

 

Part II contains " Lokasamgraha:The Social Idea of Gita "

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Dear Shailesh Shukla,

 

I am what I suppose is described as a 'Westerner'.

So I will give some western thoughts, because my guess is they will

give you hard time.

If you are dealing with social change, the first salvo my guess, will

be the caste system, and maybe arrange marriage, etc.

The students will want to know how can a society function with cattle

wandering the streets.

How does India's welfare system stand up to Canada's for instance.

Look I am being 'The Devils Advocate', what I am attempting to do is

stimulate some Western thoughts juxtaposed with the Holy Gita.

I wish you all success.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

 

 

--------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

SUMMARY OF ALL SADHAK RESPONSES

 

- Change is a Certainty. It is inevitable. It is not in our control,

therefore ACCEPT change, do not waste time on desirable or not, do

the call of duty, what one is required to be done, without thinking

of desired objective, with detachment. All changes are illusory;

snap-shots. But one must participate

- There is no change in the Absolute Reality

- Welfare of all human being is the Gita slogan. " Sarva

Bhutehiterataah "

- Sanatana Dharma - for all of humanity. 4 vedas, 3 main yogas.

Purpose of Human birth important to understand.

- From Western perspective need to be prepared to address - caste

system, arranged marriages, functioning of society with wandering

cattle, India's welfare system

- Request unclear - on what needs to be taught?

- Vastness of scriptures, in terms of even reading one subject is

beyond comprehension, therefore need further clarity

- Need to look at many other Puranas and Bhagavatam to cover Kaliyug

and changes - social/development

- Resources available - mostly location dependent; interfaith-net

- Various book references provided.

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shuklaji's Canada Lecture on Gita : Change & Development

Although everyone is right that we need clarity about what Shuklaji

really needs, it get an urge to respond to him.

Gita is all about life. The illusion of Maya keeps us attached to

all changes and development in the external enviornment and our

individual lives.

What Gita sayings amount to in this context is:

1. The change and development that we see around is not under our

control and will happen irrespective of what we wish or desire.(that

Arjun has to fight against his relatives and Gurus and there will be

death all around because of the War at Kurukshetra)

2. There is no alternative but to accept all changes and

developments instead of wasting time and and energy about whether

the change/ development is desirable or not. (that Arjun will have

no option but to fight)

3. The only reason that should give comfort to one about what he is

forced by circumstances to do is the call of duty to play one's part

as per own's instinctive property

(as a born/ grown warrior, Arjun's instinctive dharma is to fight

war as all others in the Kaurava side are doing).

4. One's duty is nothing but what one is compelled to do as per the

great design of God. One's response to change is ordained by the

internal properties (dharma) and influence of internal properties (

the mixture of the the three Gunas - Satva, Rajas and Tamas).

5. Whether one is proud or confident or diffident or sad, one has no

alternative but to do his duty.

6. While one's duty may have some ex-ante objectives/ goals and

one's actions may have good/bad consequences, the duty is better

performed when it is done without thinking about desired objective

to be realized or the likely consequences.

7. The person who happens do his duty with detachment from the

desires to be fulfilled and consequences of one's own doing

contributes more effectively to the mission for which God has

created him/ her.

8. Changes are things that are certain: realisation of goals/

objectives/ desired consequences are only probabilities.

9. So, one feels better when one participates in the change in the

development with detachment and duty as per one's own properties -

inherent or imparted by the environment.

10. Even God almighty has to participate in the change/ development

( Sambhavami Yuge Yuge and cycle of exceesive oppression and justice

and equality are all but part of the very nature of Maya-dominated

world ).

11. Despite all the changes and developments that Maya forces us to

observe and get temporary happiness or sadness), there is no change

in the Fundamental Reality of absolutely No Change in the inner core

of the Creation All forms and differences that appear under the

influence of separate ego/ identity is the influence of Maya. In

ultimate reality all these are nothing but one - split into slices

of different kinds/ forms and recomposed in various permutations and

combinations to create the illusion of differences in identities.

12. Thus all changes - physical. mental, material, spritual, social

etc. are all illusion: the reality is the continuous transformation

of the same single constant yet infinite, indestructible,

indivisible power that we define as God.

13. Participate one will, without any free choice, in the

developments and changes in this great, continuous transformation

process. For, all forms and identities are nothing but temporary,

transient snapshots of the same single core.

I know it is difficult to teach all the above and yet appear

sensible and meaningful to the students. You may need a different

pedagogy. The pedagogy adopted by Krishna to teach Arjun at

Kurukshetra.

Warm regrads to all.

Basudeb Sen

-------------------------

Dear Shukla Ji,

Shri Gita is a divine revolutionary scripture aimed for social

change in right path. As you know the society at the time of

Kaurava's regime was fully rotten and stinking. Women had no place

of respect. Wine, Mine and thine (Mamakah Pandavachev : Shri Gita

1/1) were prevailing vehemently. You may be knowing that God Krishna

was a great social reformer and number one communist in real sense

of term. He used to steal butter for other friends not for himself.

Nand Baba had lakhs of Milch Cows. There was no need for theft of

milk or butter or Mishri. On one hand it was Lila ( playful divine

activity) and on other hand there was implied teaching. God Krishna

showed how to distribute the acquired things among others instead of

only for self-accumulation. " Sarv Bhoot Hiteratah " was his motto.

this anushtup chchand has come twice in Shri Gita. Welfare of all

human being was his slogan. In fact, Shri Gita.many books can be

written on the subject of Social Change based on Shri Gita. Swami

Ranganathanand from Ramakrishna Mission had written a

multivoluminous book titled " Eternal Values for a Changing Society "

is a very good work on this. Dear Shuklaji, if you start reading

Shri Gita daily depending upon your capacity, you will start

thinking in broad (Virat) perspective with new social welfare ideas

every minute and making your own life highly elevated and dancing

with God Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna

Mahesh Sharma

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

This forum is capable of giving you infinite inputs, provided you

give us slightly more specific area. As Sadhak Sathyu narainji

stated you are too general to be replied. Naturally, one can't

reproduce Scriptures upon Scriptures. Give specifics and you get

what would help you in your task.

" Development and Social Change " in itself doesn't convey anything !

Kindly take one step further ! As Simple as that !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Shailesh Shukal Ji,

My Sadar Pranam to you and all,

 

We, who were habitant of Indus valley in the ancient time were/are

called as Hindus during the Mogul and British rule. The following (

ism) of the Sanathan Dharma was named as Hinduism and the followers

were called as HINDUS. Sanathan Dharma is for the humanity and is

not bound by any race, age or country.

Sanathan Dharma provides us Yama , Niyams for the human and a manual

on how to, live as a Human having main 4 parts known as 4 Vedas.

 

Per Bhagavat Gita spoken by Lord Krishna, is mainly divided into

three main Yogas - Karma Yoga, Gyan Yoga, and Bhakti Yoga. a must

requirement for every human to undersatnd and apply in daily life.

 

One who is novice to any religion must understand the origin, the

creation,the How to manual (Vedas) , Yama and Niyams, etc.and the

purpose of the birth as a Human.

 

To acquire any knowledge needs some dedication and time. So you as

a teacher must acquire and understand before you pass on the divine

knowledge to students. You are the best judge on the time require to

understand the divine knowledge. You have a divine opportunity to

pass on this divine.knowledge to humans seekers.

 

My best wishes to you in your Yagna and may the success be with you..

 

Please let me know if you would like a presentation on this, and you

can decide if you can use this for preliminary knowledge. This may

not have all the answers.

 

I thank you for this Divine opportunity.

 

Om Sai Ram

 

KAMLESH KUMAR

HELP EVER HURT NEVER

HAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL

 

--------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear sadaks,

What exactly Mr.Shailesh Shukla wants is not clear. There are 108

Divya Desams, 108 Upanashids, then puranas, scripts, and saints

histories Etc. These give details from creation, Sri Vishnu (Vishnu)

meant omnipresent and power of sustainence, Sri Shiva comes next who

is incharge of Pancha Boothas and destruction, 33 crore demi Gods

controling the whole universe of ours, systems on which they

operate, life span of this earth, 27 stars that gives DNA for all

living beings to perform their Karmas, subjects like black hole, 13

other galaxies and their world, the theory of creation of all living

being 6 stages of birth to death with each stage described clearly,

human conscience to know past present and future and liberation from

taking a form (birth), but ability to take austrial body (Form) or

disappear like Jesus. Ancient school of education on Vedas insisted

students of any discipline from young age to join Ashram leaving

their homes. Most ashram was established in location depending on

Vastu Sastra, herbal surrounding and where rich Ozone layer existed.

recent finding of London reasearch Institute says that Ozone tunes

the body healthy condition as Air (Prana) is vital to brain for

acquiring and remembering what is imparted. Hinduism is for humans

and all living beings irrespective of caste or creed. In Veda

Distance in space is described, " Yogana " . This is Lakhs of Km to

travel in second (Shanam). I presume Indus valley people most

ancient were taught vedas, which became Hinduism. Much later came

Christianity, Buddhaism, Jainism, Etc. named after it` s Guru.

Later came 12 Alwars (Prominent Vaisnavite) and 63 Nayanmars

(Shivites) and still later GODHOOD Bakthas.

Now teachings on 63 arts of Knowledge one takes 10 years or more.

But Sri Krishna learnt from Guru Sandeep in 63 days. Sri Krishna

brought Sandeepan son who died years ago from heaven. The same Sri

Krishna brought 9 children of a Brahmin from Sri Vaikunt who died

and were buried earlier. There is concept of pure knowledge given in

it. Simple engineering on one particular subject needs 5 years. What

exactly this Sadak wants to teach in Canada ?

 

I have access to extensive library and accumulated books/audio etc.

They are not on the net. Where are you located?

Jai Sri Krishna.

baiya sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shailash Shukla

For books on Inter faith subjects and discussions about all

religions of the world and Hindu sources, let me know.

Gita is the sum and substance of many scriptures of Hindu Religion

It can help you to get directions for being happy and spiritual

Where are you currently located?

 

Thanks,

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

------------------------------

Dear Shri S.Shukla

 

Gita is not enough if you can buy puranas like shreemad devi

bhagvatam, vishnu purana, markandeya purana, bhavisya purana you

will understand especially reading segments on Kaliyuga that were we

stand now that will explain you social change, change and

development.

 

I think sociology is best visible in puranas. go through few will

help you.

 

you according to shastras are in swarga lokasie Canada. Enjoy

company of devatas

 

bye

kalrav pande

-------------------------------

 

FEEDBACK NEEDED -

 

New posting only? (Y/N) -

Entire string on topic ? (Y/N) -

 

Past postings can be viewed by visiting the group's site.

/

Your feedback is greatly appreciated for continuous improvement.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

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[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying to get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

NEW POSTING

 

Param Krupalu Sadhakas,

 

First of all my sincerest apologies for not getting back to your

responses in time. I met with a small accident and my typing

abilities were severely impaired for a while.

Let me share with you that with your inputs and suggestions from

other divine souls like Dr Laxmesh Joshi and Dr Khanna, I managed to

run a good class on `Hindu approaches to Development and

Transformation'. My apologies that I could not be clear in my

description of question, but that is where I was stuck with which was

a fuzzy as `given' by a senior faculty member as a part of the new

course on `Faith/ Religion in Development' for undergraduate students

of International Studies Program.

 

Well, my lecture was called most `very informative, interactive and

interesting'. The students had opportunities to listen to other

speakers from different faith/religion but they said they were

most `engrossed' in this particular interactive talk. As some of you

expected; two recurring questions were invariably posed during the

class in different forms, as follows (with my response to students):

 

Question 1: Why caste systems is an impediment to development and

change in society.

 

My response: The caste system was originally created as part of

maintenance of functional order in the society and not `hierarchical'

one as it was mediated and manipulated by unthoughtful rulers and

administrators including colonial era. The caste system of

Varnavyavastha was supposed to create social cohesion by creating

interdependence among four varnas. These Varnas, I believe were

skill/function based which one could acquire and not inherit. One is

therefore truly belongs to a particular Varna because of their

qualities/ skills/characteristics match with that Varna.

 

Question 2: What Hinduism supportive of polytheism? / Having too many

gods and goddesses in the Hindu Temple confuses me as to whom to go

to and offer my worship?

 

My response: Hindu way of life believes in `Param Braman' which is

ultimate supreme reality of bigger `Self'. This param Brahman

manifests in different forms, shapes and qualities as per our own

beliefs, knowledge and worldviews. Some people worship this supreme

reality as idols, following `Sagun Sakar' or some wish to engaged in

an inner quest of knowledge to understand/merge with supreme

realities. It is like different colours (reflections) that we see of

sunlight when passes through the prism but the sun is one.

 

As Prabhu Krishna says in Geetaji : Whenever, wherever, whoso ever,

seeks me in earnestness, I appear and strengthen his or her faith

from whatever perspective s/he seeks me' (Bh. Geeta, 7.12)

 

My deepest gratitude/Hardik Dhanyavad to all Sadhkas who responded

to my original question. I would humbly request pujya Sadhakas to

comment on my responses and help transcend my naïve intelligence.

 

Aum Namo Narayana,

 

Shailesh Shukla

------------------------

 

Hari Om.

Gita deals with intelectual development of a youth.

Krushna gives different methodologies for mind management.

He clearly distinguishes the term 'mind','Chith','intellect' ,body

and soul.

Development and social change are very macro.

when we have to discuss, we need to narrow down our point of

discussion.

Kindly tell me what is the desired change in behaviour you expect

after this learning out come.

Accodingly we should prepare the material.

With regards,

Usha Sridhar.

---------------------------

Priya Shri Shailesh Shukla, Namaste. I've made a small note of the

shlokas from the Gita which you can refer fo the info. Krpaya see

the attachment (but stay unattached!).

We need to emphasie the purport of the Gita is not of only

sociological studies! It is addressing a comprehensive inquiry which

has access to the transcendental truths ot the One Truth of all

sides. Here is the spirit of sharing. Upa-nishat = All sit

together, think together and act together to benefit collectively =

Stay together with truth.

 

Best of luck to you. Dr Shastry

 

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

Suggest a good reference - Book titled, " The Social Role of the

Gita, How and Why " by Satya P. Agarwal, Prof. at the center of

South Asian Studies at Barkeley, California.

 

Topics covered:

 

Part I includes: " Case Studies of Social Applications of Karma

Yoga " - Chapters are:

1. Leaders of Social Movements in India: Selective Identification

for Case Study

2. Raja Rammohan Roy: using the Gita for Social Reform

3. Swami Vivekanand: Institutionalizing the Karma-Yoga-Based Socio-

Spiritual Approach

4. Loka Manya Tilak: Orienting the Gita to Swaraj and Lokasamgraha

5. Aurobindo: Extending Karmayoga to Puranayoga

6. Mahatama Gandhi: Adopting Ahimsa to Achieve Lokasamgraha and

Satya

 

Part II contains " Lokasamgraha:The Social Idea of Gita "

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Dear Shailesh Shukla,

 

I am what I suppose is described as a 'Westerner'.

So I will give some western thoughts, because my guess is they will

give you hard time.

If you are dealing with social change, the first salvo my guess, will

be the caste system, and maybe arrange marriage, etc.

The students will want to know how can a society function with cattle

wandering the streets.

How does India's welfare system stand up to Canada's for instance.

Look I am being 'The Devils Advocate', what I am attempting to do is

stimulate some Western thoughts juxtaposed with the Holy Gita.

I wish you all success.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

 

 

--------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

SUMMARY OF ALL SADHAK RESPONSES

 

- Change is a Certainty. It is inevitable. It is not in our control,

therefore ACCEPT change, do not waste time on desirable or not, do

the call of duty, what one is required to be done, without thinking

of desired objective, with detachment. All changes are illusory;

snap-shots. But one must participate

- There is no change in the Absolute Reality

- Welfare of all human being is the Gita slogan. " Sarva

Bhutehiterataah "

- Sanatana Dharma - for all of humanity. 4 vedas, 3 main yogas.

Purpose of Human birth important to understand.

- From Western perspective need to be prepared to address - caste

system, arranged marriages, functioning of society with wandering

cattle, India's welfare system

- Request unclear - on what needs to be taught?

- Vastness of scriptures, in terms of even reading one subject is

beyond comprehension, therefore need further clarity

- Need to look at many other Puranas and Bhagavatam to cover Kaliyug

and changes - social/development

- Resources available - mostly location dependent; interfaith-net

- Various book references provided.

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shuklaji's Canada Lecture on Gita : Change & Development

Although everyone is right that we need clarity about what Shuklaji

really needs, it get an urge to respond to him.

Gita is all about life. The illusion of Maya keeps us attached to

all changes and development in the external enviornment and our

individual lives.

What Gita sayings amount to in this context is:

1. The change and development that we see around is not under our

control and will happen irrespective of what we wish or desire.(that

Arjun has to fight against his relatives and Gurus and there will be

death all around because of the War at Kurukshetra)

2. There is no alternative but to accept all changes and

developments instead of wasting time and and energy about whether

the change/ development is desirable or not. (that Arjun will have

no option but to fight)

3. The only reason that should give comfort to one about what he is

forced by circumstances to do is the call of duty to play one's part

as per own's instinctive property

(as a born/ grown warrior, Arjun's instinctive dharma is to fight

war as all others in the Kaurava side are doing).

4. One's duty is nothing but what one is compelled to do as per the

great design of God. One's response to change is ordained by the

internal properties (dharma) and influence of internal properties (

the mixture of the the three Gunas - Satva, Rajas and Tamas).

5. Whether one is proud or confident or diffident or sad, one has no

alternative but to do his duty.

6. While one's duty may have some ex-ante objectives/ goals and

one's actions may have good/bad consequences, the duty is better

performed when it is done without thinking about desired objective

to be realized or the likely consequences.

7. The person who happens do his duty with detachment from the

desires to be fulfilled and consequences of one's own doing

contributes more effectively to the mission for which God has

created him/ her.

8. Changes are things that are certain: realisation of goals/

objectives/ desired consequences are only probabilities.

9. So, one feels better when one participates in the change in the

development with detachment and duty as per one's own properties -

inherent or imparted by the environment.

10. Even God almighty has to participate in the change/ development

( Sambhavami Yuge Yuge and cycle of exceesive oppression and justice

and equality are all but part of the very nature of Maya-dominated

world ).

11. Despite all the changes and developments that Maya forces us to

observe and get temporary happiness or sadness), there is no change

in the Fundamental Reality of absolutely No Change in the inner core

of the Creation All forms and differences that appear under the

influence of separate ego/ identity is the influence of Maya. In

ultimate reality all these are nothing but one - split into slices

of different kinds/ forms and recomposed in various permutations and

combinations to create the illusion of differences in identities.

12. Thus all changes - physical. mental, material, spritual, social

etc. are all illusion: the reality is the continuous transformation

of the same single constant yet infinite, indestructible,

indivisible power that we define as God.

13. Participate one will, without any free choice, in the

developments and changes in this great, continuous transformation

process. For, all forms and identities are nothing but temporary,

transient snapshots of the same single core.

I know it is difficult to teach all the above and yet appear

sensible and meaningful to the students. You may need a different

pedagogy. The pedagogy adopted by Krishna to teach Arjun at

Kurukshetra.

Warm regrads to all.

Basudeb Sen

-------------------------

Dear Shukla Ji,

Shri Gita is a divine revolutionary scripture aimed for social

change in right path. As you know the society at the time of

Kaurava's regime was fully rotten and stinking. Women had no place

of respect. Wine, Mine and thine (Mamakah Pandavachev : Shri Gita

1/1) were prevailing vehemently. You may be knowing that God Krishna

was a great social reformer and number one communist in real sense

of term. He used to steal butter for other friends not for himself.

Nand Baba had lakhs of Milch Cows. There was no need for theft of

milk or butter or Mishri. On one hand it was Lila ( playful divine

activity) and on other hand there was implied teaching. God Krishna

showed how to distribute the acquired things among others instead of

only for self-accumulation. " Sarv Bhoot Hiteratah " was his motto.

this anushtup chchand has come twice in Shri Gita. Welfare of all

human being was his slogan. In fact, Shri Gita.many books can be

written on the subject of Social Change based on Shri Gita. Swami

Ranganathanand from Ramakrishna Mission had written a

multivoluminous book titled " Eternal Values for a Changing Society "

is a very good work on this. Dear Shuklaji, if you start reading

Shri Gita daily depending upon your capacity, you will start

thinking in broad (Virat) perspective with new social welfare ideas

every minute and making your own life highly elevated and dancing

with God Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna

Mahesh Sharma

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

This forum is capable of giving you infinite inputs, provided you

give us slightly more specific area. As Sadhak Sathyu narainji

stated you are too general to be replied. Naturally, one can't

reproduce Scriptures upon Scriptures. Give specifics and you get

what would help you in your task.

" Development and Social Change " in itself doesn't convey anything !

Kindly take one step further ! As Simple as that !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Shailesh Shukal Ji,

My Sadar Pranam to you and all,

 

We, who were habitant of Indus valley in the ancient time were/are

called as Hindus during the Mogul and British rule. The following (

ism) of the Sanathan Dharma was named as Hinduism and the followers

were called as HINDUS. Sanathan Dharma is for the humanity and is

not bound by any race, age or country.

Sanathan Dharma provides us Yama , Niyams for the human and a manual

on how to, live as a Human having main 4 parts known as 4 Vedas.

 

Per Bhagavat Gita spoken by Lord Krishna, is mainly divided into

three main Yogas - Karma Yoga, Gyan Yoga, and Bhakti Yoga. a must

requirement for every human to undersatnd and apply in daily life.

 

One who is novice to any religion must understand the origin, the

creation,the How to manual (Vedas) , Yama and Niyams, etc.and the

purpose of the birth as a Human.

 

To acquire any knowledge needs some dedication and time. So you as

a teacher must acquire and understand before you pass on the divine

knowledge to students. You are the best judge on the time require to

understand the divine knowledge. You have a divine opportunity to

pass on this divine.knowledge to humans seekers.

 

My best wishes to you in your Yagna and may the success be with you..

 

Please let me know if you would like a presentation on this, and you

can decide if you can use this for preliminary knowledge. This may

not have all the answers.

 

I thank you for this Divine opportunity.

 

Om Sai Ram

 

KAMLESH KUMAR

HELP EVER HURT NEVER

HAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL

 

--------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear sadaks,

What exactly Mr.Shailesh Shukla wants is not clear. There are 108

Divya Desams, 108 Upanashids, then puranas, scripts, and saints

histories Etc. These give details from creation, Sri Vishnu (Vishnu)

meant omnipresent and power of sustainence, Sri Shiva comes next who

is incharge of Pancha Boothas and destruction, 33 crore demi Gods

controling the whole universe of ours, systems on which they

operate, life span of this earth, 27 stars that gives DNA for all

living beings to perform their Karmas, subjects like black hole, 13

other galaxies and their world, the theory of creation of all living

being 6 stages of birth to death with each stage described clearly,

human conscience to know past present and future and liberation from

taking a form (birth), but ability to take austrial body (Form) or

disappear like Jesus. Ancient school of education on Vedas insisted

students of any discipline from young age to join Ashram leaving

their homes. Most ashram was established in location depending on

Vastu Sastra, herbal surrounding and where rich Ozone layer existed.

recent finding of London reasearch Institute says that Ozone tunes

the body healthy condition as Air (Prana) is vital to brain for

acquiring and remembering what is imparted. Hinduism is for humans

and all living beings irrespective of caste or creed. In Veda

Distance in space is described, " Yogana " . This is Lakhs of Km to

travel in second (Shanam). I presume Indus valley people most

ancient were taught vedas, which became Hinduism. Much later came

Christianity, Buddhaism, Jainism, Etc. named after it` s Guru.

Later came 12 Alwars (Prominent Vaisnavite) and 63 Nayanmars

(Shivites) and still later GODHOOD Bakthas.

Now teachings on 63 arts of Knowledge one takes 10 years or more.

But Sri Krishna learnt from Guru Sandeep in 63 days. Sri Krishna

brought Sandeepan son who died years ago from heaven. The same Sri

Krishna brought 9 children of a Brahmin from Sri Vaikunt who died

and were buried earlier. There is concept of pure knowledge given in

it. Simple engineering on one particular subject needs 5 years. What

exactly this Sadak wants to teach in Canada ?

 

I have access to extensive library and accumulated books/audio etc.

They are not on the net. Where are you located?

Jai Sri Krishna.

baiya sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shailash Shukla

For books on Inter faith subjects and discussions about all

religions of the world and Hindu sources, let me know.

Gita is the sum and substance of many scriptures of Hindu Religion

It can help you to get directions for being happy and spiritual

Where are you currently located?

 

Thanks,

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

------------------------------

Dear Shri S.Shukla

 

Gita is not enough if you can buy puranas like shreemad devi

bhagvatam, vishnu purana, markandeya purana, bhavisya purana you

will understand especially reading segments on Kaliyuga that were we

stand now that will explain you social change, change and

development.

 

I think sociology is best visible in puranas. go through few will

help you.

 

you according to shastras are in swarga lokasie Canada. Enjoy

company of devatas

 

bye

kalrav pande

-------------------------------

 

FEEDBACK NEEDED -

 

New posting only? (Y/N) -

Entire string on topic ? (Y/N) -

 

Past postings can be viewed by visiting the group's site.

/

Your feedback is greatly appreciated for continuous improvement.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Namskar !

 

So I was trying to get some literature on Hindu perspective on

Development and Change and where else I could turn other than

Bhagavad Gita ? My knowledge and understanding of Gitaji, however,

is very limited but would appreciate if I could get any good

explanation on ' Hindu perspective on Social organization, Change

and Development' from Gita..I have to teach a class of undergraduate

student in Canada (most of them are non-Hindus)...

 

Thank you and Jai Shri Krishna

Shailesh Shukla

***********************************************************

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Shukla Ji,

Hare Krishna

 

It should be 7.21 instead of 7.12 as you mentioned.

 

Secondly, Hinduism is not Polytheism. There is only one God.

Hindus always advocate for One and Only God. You can give the example of Chapter

13 verse 16 wherein Trinity (Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh) is one but it seems to

be divided.

God is one and undivided. In Christianity it is tried to explain the

Concept of Trinity but they fail miserably. Your example of Sun is good and the

light is made of seven colours is good but all these things are micro part of

that macro (Viraat) infinite form. That is why Ishwar/Parmatma is called Anant.

From flour one can make many dishes or items but the basic

ingredient is flour. God is one and undivided. Many gods in Hinduism

are just to interpret/understand the form or formless concept of

God. Therefore God is only one.

Shri Gita is Glorious example of One God. God's Name is

Krishna, or you may call Him by any name. (Chapter 4 Verse 11). Krishna is

everything, everywhere, everytime.

 

Hare Krishna

 

Mahesh Sharma

---------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Dear Shailesh Shukla,

 

I am happy that your lectures went well, I do hope you understand I

was wearing my 'hardest Western hat', just to be provocative.

I assume that you will be doing more of the lectures. Thus I will

pretend I am one of the student regarding the paste below:

 

'...My response: Hindu way of life believes in `Param Braman' which

is

> ultimate supreme reality of bigger `Self'. This param Brahman

> manifests in different forms, shapes and qualities as per our own

> beliefs, knowledge and world views. Some people worship this

supreme reality as idols, following `Sagun Sakar' or some wish to

engaged in........

 

My response would be, " But sir is there not a danger that one could

so identify with an aspect of the 'Supreme' to a point where it could

cause friction in society, or at least become a brick wall to further

spiritual progress; regard to the struggle Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsahad had to move on past Kali? "

(Swami Vivekananda made an astute observation, liking different

colors emanating from a diamond,(this not verbatim, I don't have the

book), from different angles, like the religions of the World, and

made the comment that the wise who stand back see it is as all colors

of course = White the Source. The problem is as I see it, is those

who cannot stand back.

 

My other question would be, " Not withstanding the origins, and

reasoning behind the 'caste system'. What is modern Hindu Societies

attitude, and would you agree that the caste system is an impediment

to modern society? " .

 

I respectfully ask these question to you.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike (Keenor)

 

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Param Krupalu Sadhakas,

 

First of all my sincerest apologies for not getting back to your

responses in time. I met with a small accident and my typing

abilities were severely impaired for a while.

Let me share with you that with your inputs and suggestions from

other divine souls like Dr Laxmesh Joshi and Dr Khanna, I managed to

run a good class on `Hindu approaches to Development and

Transformation'. My apologies that I could not be clear in my

description of question, but that is where I was stuck with which was

a fuzzy as `given' by a senior faculty member as a part of the new

course on `Faith/ Religion in Development' for undergraduate students

of International Studies Program.

 

Well, my lecture was called most `very informative, interactive and

interesting'. The students had opportunities to listen to other

speakers from different faith/religion but they said they were

most `engrossed' in this particular interactive talk. As some of you

expected; two recurring questions were invariably posed during the

class in different forms, as follows (with my response to students):

 

Question 1: Why caste systems is an impediment to development and

change in society.

 

My response: The caste system was originally created as part of

maintenance of functional order in the society and not `hierarchical'

one as it was mediated and manipulated by unthoughtful rulers and

administrators including colonial era. The caste system of

Varnavyavastha was supposed to create social cohesion by creating

interdependence among four varnas. These Varnas, I believe were

skill/function based which one could acquire and not inherit. One is

therefore truly belongs to a particular Varna because of their

qualities/ skills/characteristics match with that Varna.

 

Question 2: What Hinduism supportive of polytheism? / Having too many

gods and goddesses in the Hindu Temple confuses me as to whom to go

to and offer my worship?

 

My response: Hindu way of life believes in `Param Braman' which is

ultimate supreme reality of bigger `Self'. This param Brahman

manifests in different forms, shapes and qualities as per our own

beliefs, knowledge and worldviews. Some people worship this supreme

reality as idols, following `Sagun Sakar' or some wish to engaged in

an inner quest of knowledge to understand/merge with supreme

realities. It is like different colours (reflections) that we see of

sunlight when passes through the prism but the sun is one.

 

As Prabhu Krishna says in Geetaji : Whenever, wherever, whoso ever,

seeks me in earnestness, I appear and strengthen his or her faith

from whatever perspective s/he seeks me' (Bh. Geeta, 7.12)

 

My deepest gratitude/Hardik Dhanyavad to all Sadhkas who responded

to my original question. I would humbly request pujya Sadhakas to

comment on my responses and help transcend my naïve intelligence.

 

Aum Namo Narayana,

 

Shailesh Shukla

------------------------

 

Hari Om.

Gita deals with intelectual development of a youth.

Krushna gives different methodologies for mind management.

He clearly distinguishes the term 'mind','Chith','intellect' ,body

and soul.

Development and social change are very macro.

when we have to discuss, we need to narrow down our point of

discussion.

Kindly tell me what is the desired change in behaviour you expect

after this learning out come.

Accodingly we should prepare the material.

With regards,

Usha Sridhar.

---------------------------

Priya Shri Shailesh Shukla, Namaste. I've made a small note of the

shlokas from the Gita which you can refer fo the info. Krpaya see

the attachment (but stay unattached!).

We need to emphasie the purport of the Gita is not of only

sociological studies! It is addressing a comprehensive inquiry which

has access to the transcendental truths ot the One Truth of all

sides. Here is the spirit of sharing. Upa-nishat = All sit

together, think together and act together to benefit collectively =

Stay together with truth.

 

Best of luck to you. Dr Shastry

 

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

Suggest a good reference - Book titled, " The Social Role of the

Gita, How and Why " by Satya P. Agarwal, Prof. at the center of

South Asian Studies at Barkeley, California.

 

Topics covered:

 

Part I includes: " Case Studies of Social Applications of Karma

Yoga " - Chapters are:

1. Leaders of Social Movements in India: Selective Identification

for Case Study

2. Raja Rammohan Roy: using the Gita for Social Reform

3. Swami Vivekanand: Institutionalizing the Karma-Yoga-Based Socio-

Spiritual Approach

4. Loka Manya Tilak: Orienting the Gita to Swaraj and Lokasamgraha

5. Aurobindo: Extending Karmayoga to Puranayoga

6. Mahatama Gandhi: Adopting Ahimsa to Achieve Lokasamgraha and

Satya

 

Part II contains " Lokasamgraha:The Social Idea of Gita "

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

 

Dear Shailesh Shukla,

 

I am what I suppose is described as a 'Westerner'.

So I will give some western thoughts, because my guess is they will

give you hard time.

If you are dealing with social change, the first salvo my guess, will

be the caste system, and maybe arrange marriage, etc.

The students will want to know how can a society function with cattle

wandering the streets.

How does India's welfare system stand up to Canada's for instance.

Look I am being 'The Devils Advocate', what I am attempting to do is

stimulate some Western thoughts juxtaposed with the Holy Gita.

I wish you all success.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

 

 

--------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

SUMMARY OF ALL SADHAK RESPONSES

 

- Change is a Certainty. It is inevitable. It is not in our control,

therefore ACCEPT change, do not waste time on desirable or not, do

the call of duty, what one is required to be done, without thinking

of desired objective, with detachment. All changes are illusory;

snap-shots. But one must participate

- There is no change in the Absolute Reality

- Welfare of all human being is the Gita slogan. " Sarva

Bhutehiterataah "

- Sanatana Dharma - for all of humanity. 4 vedas, 3 main yogas.

Purpose of Human birth important to understand.

- From Western perspective need to be prepared to address - caste

system, arranged marriages, functioning of society with wandering

cattle, India's welfare system

- Request unclear - on what needs to be taught?

- Vastness of scriptures, in terms of even reading one subject is

beyond comprehension, therefore need further clarity

- Need to look at many other Puranas and Bhagavatam to cover Kaliyug

and changes - social/development

- Resources available - mostly location dependent; interfaith-net

- Various book references provided.

 

--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shuklaji's Canada Lecture on Gita : Change & Development

Although everyone is right that we need clarity about what Shuklaji

really needs, it get an urge to respond to him.

Gita is all about life. The illusion of Maya keeps us attached to

all changes and development in the external enviornment and our

individual lives.

What Gita sayings amount to in this context is:

1. The change and development that we see around is not under our

control and will happen irrespective of what we wish or desire.(that

Arjun has to fight against his relatives and Gurus and there will be

death all around because of the War at Kurukshetra)

2. There is no alternative but to accept all changes and

developments instead of wasting time and and energy about whether

the change/ development is desirable or not. (that Arjun will have

no option but to fight)

3. The only reason that should give comfort to one about what he is

forced by circumstances to do is the call of duty to play one's part

as per own's instinctive property

(as a born/ grown warrior, Arjun's instinctive dharma is to fight

war as all others in the Kaurava side are doing).

4. One's duty is nothing but what one is compelled to do as per the

great design of God. One's response to change is ordained by the

internal properties (dharma) and influence of internal properties (

the mixture of the the three Gunas - Satva, Rajas and Tamas).

5. Whether one is proud or confident or diffident or sad, one has no

alternative but to do his duty.

6. While one's duty may have some ex-ante objectives/ goals and

one's actions may have good/bad consequences, the duty is better

performed when it is done without thinking about desired objective

to be realized or the likely consequences.

7. The person who happens do his duty with detachment from the

desires to be fulfilled and consequences of one's own doing

contributes more effectively to the mission for which God has

created him/ her.

8. Changes are things that are certain: realisation of goals/

objectives/ desired consequences are only probabilities.

9. So, one feels better when one participates in the change in the

development with detachment and duty as per one's own properties -

inherent or imparted by the environment.

10. Even God almighty has to participate in the change/ development

( Sambhavami Yuge Yuge and cycle of exceesive oppression and justice

and equality are all but part of the very nature of Maya-dominated

world ).

11. Despite all the changes and developments that Maya forces us to

observe and get temporary happiness or sadness), there is no change

in the Fundamental Reality of absolutely No Change in the inner core

of the Creation All forms and differences that appear under the

influence of separate ego/ identity is the influence of Maya. In

ultimate reality all these are nothing but one - split into slices

of different kinds/ forms and recomposed in various permutations and

combinations to create the illusion of differences in identities.

12. Thus all changes - physical. mental, material, spritual, social

etc. are all illusion: the reality is the continuous transformation

of the same single constant yet infinite, indestructible,

indivisible power that we define as God.

13. Participate one will, without any free choice, in the

developments and changes in this great, continuous transformation

process. For, all forms and identities are nothing but temporary,

transient snapshots of the same single core.

I know it is difficult to teach all the above and yet appear

sensible and meaningful to the students. You may need a different

pedagogy. The pedagogy adopted by Krishna to teach Arjun at

Kurukshetra.

Warm regrads to all.

Basudeb Sen

-------------------------

Dear Shukla Ji,

Shri Gita is a divine revolutionary scripture aimed for social

change in right path. As you know the society at the time of

Kaurava's regime was fully rotten and stinking. Women had no place

of respect. Wine, Mine and thine (Mamakah Pandavachev : Shri Gita

1/1) were prevailing vehemently. You may be knowing that God Krishna

was a great social reformer and number one communist in real sense

of term. He used to steal butter for other friends not for himself.

Nand Baba had lakhs of Milch Cows. There was no need for theft of

milk or butter or Mishri. On one hand it was Lila ( playful divine

activity) and on other hand there was implied teaching. God Krishna

showed how to distribute the acquired things among others instead of

only for self-accumulation. " Sarv Bhoot Hiteratah " was his motto.

this anushtup chchand has come twice in Shri Gita. Welfare of all

human being was his slogan. In fact, Shri Gita.many books can be

written on the subject of Social Change based on Shri Gita. Swami

Ranganathanand from Ramakrishna Mission had written a

multivoluminous book titled " Eternal Values for a Changing Society "

is a very good work on this. Dear Shuklaji, if you start reading

Shri Gita daily depending upon your capacity, you will start

thinking in broad (Virat) perspective with new social welfare ideas

every minute and making your own life highly elevated and dancing

with God Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna

Mahesh Sharma

----------------------------

Hari Om

 

Dear Shaileshji

 

This forum is capable of giving you infinite inputs, provided you

give us slightly more specific area. As Sadhak Sathyu narainji

stated you are too general to be replied. Naturally, one can't

reproduce Scriptures upon Scriptures. Give specifics and you get

what would help you in your task.

" Development and Social Change " in itself doesn't convey anything !

Kindly take one step further ! As Simple as that !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Shailesh Shukal Ji,

My Sadar Pranam to you and all,

 

We, who were habitant of Indus valley in the ancient time were/are

called as Hindus during the Mogul and British rule. The following (

ism) of the Sanathan Dharma was named as Hinduism and the followers

were called as HINDUS. Sanathan Dharma is for the humanity and is

not bound by any race, age or country.

Sanathan Dharma provides us Yama , Niyams for the human and a manual

on how to, live as a Human having main 4 parts known as 4 Vedas.

 

Per Bhagavat Gita spoken by Lord Krishna, is mainly divided into

three main Yogas - Karma Yoga, Gyan Yoga, and Bhakti Yoga. a must

requirement for every human to undersatnd and apply in daily life.

 

One who is novice to any religion must understand the origin, the

creation,the How to manual (Vedas) , Yama and Niyams, etc.and the

purpose of the birth as a Human.

 

To acquire any knowledge needs some dedication and time. So you as

a teacher must acquire and understand before you pass on the divine

knowledge to students. You are the best judge on the time require to

understand the divine knowledge. You have a divine opportunity to

pass on this divine.knowledge to humans seekers.

 

My best wishes to you in your Yagna and may the success be with you..

 

Please let me know if you would like a presentation on this, and you

can decide if you can use this for preliminary knowledge. This may

not have all the answers.

 

I thank you for this Divine opportunity.

 

Om Sai Ram

 

KAMLESH KUMAR

HELP EVER HURT NEVER

HAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL

 

--------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

 

Dear sadaks,

What exactly Mr.Shailesh Shukla wants is not clear. There are 108

Divya Desams, 108 Upanashids, then puranas, scripts, and saints

histories Etc. These give details from creation, Sri Vishnu (Vishnu)

meant omnipresent and power of sustainence, Sri Shiva comes next who

is incharge of Pancha Boothas and destruction, 33 crore demi Gods

controling the whole universe of ours, systems on which they

operate, life span of this earth, 27 stars that gives DNA for all

living beings to perform their Karmas, subjects like black hole, 13

other galaxies and their world, the theory of creation of all living

being 6 stages of birth to death with each stage described clearly,

human conscience to know past present and future and liberation from

taking a form (birth), but ability to take austrial body (Form) or

disappear like Jesus. Ancient school of education on Vedas insisted

students of any discipline from young age to join Ashram leaving

their homes. Most ashram was established in location depending on

Vastu Sastra, herbal surrounding and where rich Ozone layer existed.

recent finding of London reasearch Institute says that Ozone tunes

the body healthy condition as Air (Prana) is vital to brain for

acquiring and remembering what is imparted. Hinduism is for humans

and all living beings irrespective of caste or creed. In Veda

Distance in space is described, " Yogana " . This is Lakhs of Km to

travel in second (Shanam). I presume Indus valley people most

ancient were taught vedas, which became Hinduism. Much later came

Christianity, Buddhaism, Jainism, Etc. named after it` s Guru.

Later came 12 Alwars (Prominent Vaisnavite) and 63 Nayanmars

(Shivites) and still later GODHOOD Bakthas.

Now teachings on 63 arts of Knowledge one takes 10 years or more.

But Sri Krishna learnt from Guru Sandeep in 63 days. Sri Krishna

brought Sandeepan son who died years ago from heaven. The same Sri

Krishna brought 9 children of a Brahmin from Sri Vaikunt who died

and were buried earlier. There is concept of pure knowledge given in

it. Simple engineering on one particular subject needs 5 years. What

exactly this Sadak wants to teach in Canada ?

 

I have access to extensive library and accumulated books/audio etc.

They are not on the net. Where are you located?

Jai Sri Krishna.

baiya sathyanarayan

 

-----------------------------

Dear Shailash Shukla

For books on Inter faith subjects and discussions about all

religions of the world and Hindu sources, let me know.

Gita is the sum and substance of many scriptures of Hindu Religion

It can help you to get directions for being happy and spiritual

Where are you currently located?

 

Thanks,

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

------------------------------

Dear Shri S.Shukla

 

Gita is not enough if you can buy puranas like shreemad devi

bhagvatam, vishnu purana, markandeya purana, bhavisya purana you

will understand especially reading segments on Kaliyuga that were we

stand now that will explain you social change, change and

development.

 

I think sociology is best visible in puranas. go through few will

help you.

 

you according to shastras are in swarga lokasie Canada. Enjoy

company of devatas

 

bye

kalrav pande

-------------------------------

 

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---------------------------

 

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