Becoming Free from Karma Bondage - Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

As pointed out by Moderatorji in the " Transition from Read-Learned

Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge-Realization " , Karmas can be

taken as separate topic by itself, so I would share my understanding

to start with and invite comments.

 

As Bhagwan says in Gita, Gahana karmanau gatih!(Pardon my sanskrit).

Intricate are the ways of Karmas.

Gita also teaches that " I " am not body-mind based limited individual

I think, believe and act (as if I am body-mind). I am without any

limitations is the main theme of Gita. (Swamiji says Paramatman is

already attained/realized). In I am, " am " is sat, and " I " is Chit-

knowingness!

 

This body identification is clearly ignorance, and thus my being

individual is also ignorance. An individual also thinks he/she is

the doer of all karmas performed, and therefore he/she becomes

bhokta (enjoyer) of fruits of actions leading him/her to swing

between pairs of opposites such as pains and pleasures throughout

the life.

 

Actions originate from conditioning/sanskaras which he inherited

from the environment around him/her while growing up. Because

actions are done through the body-mind that he considers his

(ignorance), these actions become his, not otherwise in themselves,

actions are impersonal, and choice is dictated by conditioning

(likes/dislikes).

 

Mind is conditioned and doesn't even know it is! The environment is

mass karmas or impressions on human consciousness from the beginning

of the creation. These impressions are like a pool or stream of

karmas, good and bad sanskaras due to thoughts and deeds of people

like Gandhi, Hitler, mother Teresa, leaders of our times, wars, and

so on. Actually these karmas/conditioning manifesting through

individuals in different times, and places. It is as if these karmas

are recycled/reincarnated through different bodies, and minds until

some minds realize their essential nature is Atman, Pure Existence-

Consciousness, Impersonal, Divine. Karmas cannot touch such Atman,

as It is experiential realization.

It is said that Karmas,as though, get burnt upon realization, as

they were all committed in ignorance of SELF. Memory returns to such

a one that one is ever Atman-self. Gita Ch 18: Nashto moha,

smritirlabhthwa....

So in an impersonal way the reincarnation of

conditioning/karmas/mind/soul continues across all generations and

in all places, via the births and deaths of bodies made up of

integration of five great elements, carrying causal bodies of such

ignorance!

Thus it is seen that individual is illusion and as such individual

doer and hence karmas are also equally illusion in the wake of Self-

knowledge!

In shankara's Aparokshanubhuti, verses 90 onward emphasize this

point negating even the prarabdha karmas for an individual which

happen to bodies and not to Realized One.

So it is more important to be free of such ignorance living in us as

individual Karta-doer and karmas will lose their credence. Then

Everything unfolds as it should by God, for God, to God!

Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS

- Intricate are the ways of Karmas

- Individual due to body-mind association, thinks he is doer and

enjoyer, purely out of ignorance

- Karmas cannot touch such Atman

- Actions are impersonal

- On knowledge of true nature (Self, Atma) memory returns, all

attachments vanish. (Nashtomoha smrittirlabdhvaa)

- Let us be free from ignorance for it is by God, for God, to God.

------------------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

As pointed out by Moderatorji in the " Transition from Read-Learned

Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge-Realization " , Karmas can be

taken as separate topic by itself, so I would share my understanding

to start with and invite comments.

 

As Bhagwan says in Gita, Gahana karmanau gatih!(Pardon my sanskrit).

Intricate are the ways of Karmas.

Gita also teaches that " I " am not body-mind based limited individual

I think, believe and act (as if I am body-mind). I am without any

limitations is the main theme of Gita. (Swamiji says Paramatman is

already attained/realized).

 

In I am, " am " is sat, and " I " is Chit-knowingness!

 

This body identification is clearly ignorance, and thus my being

individual is also ignorance. An individual also thinks he/she is

the doer of all karmas performed, and therefore he/she becomes

bhokta (enjoyer) of fruits of actions leading him/her to swing

between pairs of opposites such as pains and pleasures throughout

the life.

 

Actions originate from conditioning/sanskaras which he inherited

from the environment around him/her while growing up. Because

actions are done through the body-mind that he considers his

(ignorance), these actions become his, not otherwise in themselves,

actions are impersonal, and choice is dictated by conditioning

(likes/dislikes).

 

Mind is conditioned and doesn't even know it is! The environment is

mass karmas or impressions on human consciousness from the beginning

of the creation. These impressions are like a pool or stream of

karmas, good and bad sanskaras due to thoughts and deeds of people

like Gandhi, Hitler, mother Teresa, leaders of our times, wars, and

so on. Actually these karmas/conditioning manifesting through

individuals in different times, and places. It is as if these karmas

are recycled/reincarnated through different bodies, and minds until

some minds realize their essential nature is Atman, Pure Existence-

Consciousness, Impersonal, Divine. Karmas cannot touch such Atman,

as It is experiential realization.

It is said that Karmas,as though, get burnt upon realization, as

they were all committed in ignorance of SELF. Memory returns to such

a one that one is ever Atman-self. Gita Ch 18: Nashto moha,

smritirlabhthwa....

So in an impersonal way the reincarnation of

conditioning/karmas/mind/soul continues across all generations and

in all places, via the births and deaths of bodies made up of

integration of five great elements, carrying causal bodies of such

ignorance!

Thus it is seen that individual is illusion and as such individual

doer and hence karmas are also equally illusion in the wake of Self-

knowledge!

In shankara's Aparokshanubhuti, verses 90 onward emphasize this

point negating even the prarabdha karmas for an individual which

happen to bodies and not to Realized One.

So it is more important to be free of such ignorance living in us as

individual Karta-doer and karmas will lose their credence. Then

Everything unfolds as it should by God, for God, to God!

Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om.

 

The purpose of Gita is to free us from life cycle and bondage of

birth cycle.

ITs v.v.easy to understand with a small example.

A thief is brought before the magistrate to analyze if he is an

accused.

The magistrate asks the thief 'Did you do this crime?'

The thief says,'Yes sir!'

He is given a punishment for his action!

He goes to jail to undergo his punishment.

The same way whatever we do are recorded

by our sense organs and is stored in 'Chith'.

Whatever we do good or bad, we get reward or punishment for the same.

This is known as Karma bondage.

But whatever we do if we attach everything to the Lotus feet of

Krushna, He becomes the advocate for us and he takes care of us.

Now the whole karma bondage path changes.

We dont attach ourselves to the result of any action we do. We say

that everything is left to Krushna.

So there is no impressions of the actions done by us in our Chith.

This is the first step to free us from this life and death cycle.

Hari OM.

With regards,

Ushasridhar.

 

Namasthe (leaving the good or bad of this karma to Krushna)

-----------------------

Dear sadak,

Ref: Sri Pratap writing ---Becoming Free from Karma Bondage -

Actions, Impressions, Doer ship, Enjoyability.

When attachment towards world, family, friends, taste, touch, Etc

are there, what Sri Pratab said exits. When detachments obtained,

What Sri Pratab said automatically dispels. From the actions of

Karma with attachment-- " I " , " ME " -- " MINE " comes bondage, doer ship

etc.

Ex: When Sant Samartha Ramadoss child died falling in big vessel of

water, He said, " Bagavan probably gave this child only short life

span in which it said Ram Ram during Bajan and gone to Sri Ram " .

When Sant Tukaram was offered Pushpaka Viman (flying chariot) to

Vaikunt, he simply sat and went unmindfull to even bid bye to his

children and wife. Sant Purander Doss was very rich man. On seeing

Bagavan in his diamond ring just abandonded crores of property, went

to Panderpur. When people asked how he is going to live? He

said, " when Bagavan is taking care of whole Visvam, HE will also take

care of me " .

Sant Kulasekar Alwar was in direct contact with Sri Ranganather (Sri

Vishnu). His son until age of 32 could not be married. His wife

pleaded him to ask with God. Kulasekar was singing in praise of-

Bagavan in temple Sri Rangam. As he was about to come out, he

remembered his wife` s plea. Went in and started again singing about

God. It happened 3 times. Out of temple 4th time, he thought what is

this bondage my son and his wedding stupid. Then Paramathuma called

him and said, " Hey Kulasekar Go your son will get married " . Jai

Devar of poori jaganath determined to be bachelor life time. But

when God Jaganath said in his dream, someone will approach him for

giving a girl in wedding to him, Jaidev was calm. Next day a Batt

came to Jai Dev and said that in his dream God asked to marry his

daughter Padmavathi to Jai Dev who is in Ashram only by himself. But

for wish of Jaganath he gladly got married. Padmavathi and Jai dev

showed very great role about Bakthi not about any attachment.

So Karma Bondage - Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership, all

vanishes by itself when attachment goes. No need to try to release

them, they get lost by themselves. It is like bad company goes away

when one emerges into Sat Sangh. Bad company and Sat Sangh cannot be

together. Partly this and partly that will only end up in more

bondage, Karmas, Doer Ship.

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

---------------------------

 

SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS

- Intricate are the ways of Karmas

- Individual due to body-mind association, thinks he is doer and

enjoyer, body identification is purely out of ignorance

- Karmas cannot touch such Atman

- Actions are impersonal; choice is dictated by likes-dislikes

(conditioning)

- actions with attachment-- " I " , " ME " -- " MINE " leads to bondage, doer

ship

- when attachment goes, Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership,

all vanishes by itself like bad company and satsang cannot coexist.

- When one dedicates actions to the Lotus feet of Lord Krishna,

there is no binding influence of karmas.

- On knowledge of true nature (Self, Atma) memory returns, all

attachments vanish. (Nashtomoha smrittirlabdhvaa)

- Let us be free from ignorance for it is by God, for God, to God.

------------------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

As pointed out by Moderatorji in the " Transition from Read-Learned

Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge-Realization " , Karmas can be

taken as separate topic by itself, so I would share my understanding

to start with and invite comments.

 

As Bhagwan says in Gita, Gahana karmanau gatih!(Pardon my sanskrit).

Intricate are the ways of Karmas.

Gita also teaches that " I " am not body-mind based limited individual

I think, believe and act (as if I am body-mind). I am without any

limitations is the main theme of Gita. (Swamiji says Paramatman is

already attained/realized). In I am, " am " is sat, and " I " is Chit-

knowingness!

 

This body identification is clearly ignorance, and thus my being

individual is also ignorance. An individual also thinks he/she is

the doer of all karmas performed, and therefore he/she becomes

bhokta (enjoyer) of fruits of actions leading him/her to swing

between pairs of opposites such as pains and pleasures throughout

the life.

 

Actions originate from conditioning/sanskaras which he inherited

from the environment around him/her while growing up. Because

actions are done through the body-mind that he considers his

(ignorance), these actions become his, not otherwise in themselves,

actions are impersonal, and choice is dictated by conditioning

(likes/dislikes).

 

Mind is conditioned and doesn't even know it is! The environment is

mass karmas or impressions on human consciousness from the beginning

of the creation. These impressions are like a pool or stream of

karmas, good and bad sanskaras due to thoughts and deeds of people

like Gandhi, Hitler, mother Teresa, leaders of our times, wars, and

so on. Actually these karmas/conditioning manifesting through

individuals in different times, and places. It is as if these karmas

are recycled/reincarnated through different bodies, and minds until

some minds realize their essential nature is Atman, Pure Existence-

Consciousness, Impersonal, Divine. Karmas cannot touch such Atman,

as It is experiential realization.

It is said that Karmas,as though, get burnt upon realization, as

they were all committed in ignorance of SELF. Memory returns to such

a one that one is ever Atman-self. Gita Ch 18: Nashto moha,

smritirlabhthwa....

So in an impersonal way the reincarnation of

conditioning/karmas/mind/soul continues across all generations and

in all places, via the births and deaths of bodies made up of

integration of five great elements, carrying causal bodies of such

ignorance!

Thus it is seen that individual is illusion and as such individual

doer and hence karmas are also equally illusion in the wake of Self-

knowledge!

In shankara's Aparokshanubhuti, verses 90 onward emphasize this

point negating even the prarabdha karmas for an individual which

happen to bodies and not to Realized One.

So it is more important to be free of such ignorance living in us as

individual Karta-doer and karmas will lose their credence. Then

Everything unfolds as it should by God, for God, to God!

Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhak

 

Regarding our actions very human being is judged by the law of

Karma.If we surrender to Lord Krishna still however we have to get

results as per of Karmas( actions )

 

Truly yours

 

S S Bhatt

----------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Based on Sathyanaranaji's comments, I would like to re-emphasize the

point made here.

On the path of inquiry/knowledge, one doesn't have to do anything,

because if " doing " such as giving up attachment involves " a doer "

then it is not going to give up attachment to " I " , " me " and " mine " .

In fact one has to understand deeply that sense of " I " or " me "

cannot free itself from attachment, because " attachment " is the

nature of " I " . Why? because " I " is so inadequate, insufficient in

itself due to perceived isolation from Totality, Godhood, so it will

attract or repel to complete itself, unfortunately through objects.

See the fact of our experience, when there is attachment for

a " thing " or person is happening in the moments, there are only

feelings-thoughts(of attachment) breeding in our consciousness

(awareness), there is no " me " or I in our experience, but we take

ourselves to be " I/me " as if it is permanently there. This creates

duality of " me " and " expectations from " thing " or person in moments,

all only in our mind(in consciousness, really). Both are in the same

mind, artificially divided as two creating the trouble for us.

Experientially There is ONLY " ONE CONSCIOUSNESS " appearing as

two " me " , the body identified person, and attachment for " other " .

Both are perceived objects of Consciousness we are!

Can one just see this, just be there without doing anything, just

witness as it unfolds?

If one can, attachment withers away!

" No such " I/me " exists in our experience, is crucial breakthrough

and a giant leap toward giving up attachment and hosts of other

problems that go with it, naturally.

That which doesn't exist, how can one be attached to it, or get rid

of?

So no " I " or " me " , therefore " mine " goes out the door.

Then, no " doer either " .

Then only Karmas as needed/guided by this understanding, but no " my

Karmas " or " my fruits " . All is God's prasadam.

Then no bondage either.

The root of all attachment is " me " so just tackle that with this

inquiry/understanding!

Lord Krishna says this in Gita but it may not be coming out that way

until or unless one takes all chapters of Gita to bear upon our

understanding. One cannot take one verse at a time in isolation and

interpret it to derive any meaningful implementaion in our life.

This is my respectful and humble seeing, dear Sadhakas!

Namaskar.........

 

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

 

SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS

- Intricate are the ways of Karmas

- Individual due to body-mind association, thinks he is doer and

enjoyer, purely out of ignorance

- Karmas cannot touch such Atman

- Actions are impersonal

- On knowledge of true nature (Self, Atma) memory returns, all

attachments vanish. (Nashtomoha smrittirlabdhvaa)

- Let us be free from ignorance for it is by God, for God, to God.

------------------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -