Is Spirituality Only Possible after Basic Needs are Met?

[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

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[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

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[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

First, we need to understand what do we mean by " spirituality "

 

Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which govern

us all......

like we have Newton's laws of motion... we must follow them....if we

want to be happy, joyful, contented..., have the taste of

abundance,...

 

It is the other way around........

If we understand and follow these fundamental rules, we are

spiritual - degree can be different...

and then the basic needs and the whole world is automatically

assured.....

 

Trust and patience are needed to see how the rules that govern our

beings (spirituality) work for you....

Once we get the taste of it, such questions will never arise......

 

No conditions for practicing spirituality.......because conditions

means no spirituality....away from truth..

 

we all have seen people fasting voluntarily / Rishi leaving food or

other things for months...for that joy of being spiritual.......

 

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

 

Re: Spirituality, Meals and shelter

 

Living a spiritual life and ensuring meals and shelter are not

mutually exclusive options. We have known about many spiritual

leaders of the past who did not have to work/ find meals and sheter.

We would not have got Buddha if Siddarth was worried about food and

shelter. Sri Ramakrishna concentrated on thinking about God and

trying to establish relation with God: food and shelter came to him

without any effort. Those who use internet can be spiritual without

having to worry for food and shelter. There are many who have

assured food and shelter do not try to be spiritual. There are many

in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but food and

shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual. Aged people

often require very little food or very little sheter - many of them

let God to take care of their needs and God indeed does so. So,

there are various possibilities.

No one is forced to become spiritual: those who try to be spiritual

try on their own irrespective of whether they have assured food or

shelter. The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted

to God to take care of the needs. One who loves God and wants to

reach Him through spiritual discussions, does not care whether he

fails to live for want of food and shelter. When spiritual

tendencies come, people tend to forget about food and shelter. Many

Sanyasis had joined Ramakrisna Mission or the Order of the Church

not because they were assured of food and shelter. Those who are

really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet food and shelter

come to them without effort to get food and shelter.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

I am not sure if this is not a provocative question.

 

Never the less my answer is this; look at some of the great spiritual

masters, the last thing they were concerned with was their creature

comforts.

 

The English founder of the Quakers, in and out of jail, sleeping

under hedges and eating turnips out of the fields.

 

Ramakrishna, coming from a poor family ended up hating money,

surrendered to what would be, just reading his story some years back,

I fell spiritually in love with him.

 

Many spiritual aspirants, forsake the comforts of life, and rely on

others good will for sustenance, they loose interest in worldly

things, as they become spiritually focust.

 

So if anything poverty may be a help if one is so focused.

 

From a practical point of view it would be interesting to read a

comment by Sophiaji on the subject. If you have read this question

Sophia.

 

To focus on the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------Jai Hanuman

 

It is abundantly clear that provision for a person's basic needs is

the responsibility of Mother Nature and

In reply I quote verses from Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma:

 

DAADOO DUNIYA BAAWARI , FIKKAR KARE GELI ! ROTI DESHI RAAMJI ,

DOPAARA PELI !!

 

Says Saint Dadooji: The world has gone mad and insane that it worries

( for food etc). In fact before noon God (Raamji) will provide bread

to you !!

 

PRARABDHA PAHLE RACHA, PEECHE RACHA SHARIR ! TULSI CHINTA KYON KARE

BHAJLE SHRI RAGHUVEER !!

 

Says Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj: Destiny has been fixed before

creation of your body. (O Jeeva) Why are you worrying? Why don't you

start doing bhajan of God (Shri Raghuveer) ?

 

MUEN KO HARI DET HAI LAKDI, KAPADA, AAG ! JEEVATA NAR CHINTA KARE

BAAKA BADA ABHAAG !!

 

Says a Saint: Even to a dead person Hari (God) gives wood, fire and

cloth ! How unfortunate is that person who is living and is

worrying ( for basic needs) ?

 

You see, this human birth is given to you for realisation of God and

for that only. Now an essential thing which you have to do to

realise God is " to renounce " (TYAAG). Therefore, you always get

worldly things , throughout your life. Basic needs are air, water,

food, cloth and shelter. That every creature has got. It is not

therefore surprising that each and every human being invariably

leaves something of his own at the time of death. It may be a worn

out trouser or waist or a piece of stick or a penny or a cap , but

something definitely. You exhaust, the treasure of Mother Nature to

provide for your basic needs does not ! (PLEASE CLARIFY LAST

STATEMENT - GT MODERATORS)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

 

I was very happy to go through the valuable thoughts of Geeta

Sadhakas.

I feel that, the basic needs of every creature on this Planet Earth

are met, is true for all life forms other than humans, because Man is

not living on this Earth as Nature has intended. One may argue that,

in whatever way the Man is living, is also intended by Nature.

 

In this, so called, Kali Yuga, a stage has come, when somebody in the

family has to earn money to maintain the family, procure food,

clothing, shelter, medical help, education for children etc.

Otherwise the family has to perish.

 

It is the `Arthanjan Yoga` (Money Earning Efforts) which gets

priority over everything else. We should bear in our minds, that

every common man cannot be a saint, sadhu, sannyasi or yogi.

 

....Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

That is not true at all. In India we have the glorious tradition of

sadhus or holy men who have no home and no assurance of even one

meal a day but still live the spiritual life. All our great saints

followed this tradition and made our country the only one with

living saints. We are fortunate to have some true saints in India

even today to guide us spiritually.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- provision for a person's basic needs is the responsibility of

Mother Nature

- Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which

govern us all

- many in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but

food and shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual.

- The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted to God

to take care of the needs.

- Those who are really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet

food and shelter come to them without effort

- Life of great spiritual masters, indicates the last thing they

were concerned with sustenance. Poverty may be a help. To focus on

the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- it seems to be true for all life forms other than humans. humans

perish, if sustaining activities are not performed.

- Even sadhus that have no assurance of a meal a day still live a

spiritual life.

- No conditions for practicing spirituality. Conditions means away

from truth

- Voluntary fasting for joy of it... therefore where is the question

first meeting basic needs.

- to realise God, " renunciation " is key(TYAAG).

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Gita is meant for human beings only. There it is categorically

stated : " Ahankaar Vimudhatma kartahamiti manyate " Foolish Jeeva

under illusion of ego " assumes " that he is the doer. If one person

according to you earns livelihood and 10 persons feed on that, what

balance 9 persons have done ? Children, old parents, housewife, sick

and ailing family members? What do they do ? Hence it is not correct

to say that Nature provides basic needs to all creatures but not to

human beings !! What else Mother Nature does except " nurturing

life " ? Mother Nature has to make some as medium, and we feel we

are `Principal' and not `Agent'. That is fault at our end.

 

Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE LIKHA HAI, KHAANE

WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain , the name of eater is

written). What does that mean? That means there is provision for

basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may survive, till the

time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or Kaliyuga is going

to do in that ?

 

As regards your last sentence : Again my answer is , No Sir ! Every

human being is a Sadhak. When the very birth is granted specifically

to you for Paramatma Realisation, how can you be anything less than

a Sadhak? Yogi – means equanimous. Can a human being not be so, if

he wants to ? If yes, how he can not be? You can only be Sadhu,

Sanyaasi, Yogi, Saint – ultimately ! What else you can be? Rest

whatever you try to be, will evaporate ! That you don't know that or

accept that or believe that is your fault. That is called Maya !!

That is Ego ! That needs to be cured !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Hare Krishna,

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

Ashok Goenka

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Ashokji, kindly clarify the connection between your response and

the question being asked. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

 

 

There's something to be said by your statement. Those who are truly

ready to make the next leap in their life need to take radical steps

to achieve it. When one is ready to take the path of the Sadhu this

is the means they need to go about achieving it.

 

" Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down.

For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's

only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)

 

Ben

 

-------------------------------

Mr.Gee Waman,

1) Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food. So it is one's own cause to have a meal a day/ have

square meal a day/ excess food of choice/ suffer without food now

and then. Proofs are there in our histories. One Example: Sudhama

(Kuchela) was student with Sri krishna in Sandeep Ashram. He ate the

portion of food that was for Sri Krishna. Effect he was starving

later with his family. His suffering came to an end only when he

gave 2 handful of rice to Sri Krishna. There was another instance

were a vaisya deprives food to his servant for days causing death of

servant. The same Vaisya born as begger and dies for want of food.

Paramathuma has nothing to do with food; it is one's own Prarabdha

Karma. Even if food provided we see somebody sick unable to eat.

 

People in Africa die for want of food. Children are bony and die.

Water is scares. It is vice versa in other country. On earth the

places are there to suit one`s karma. What we do now matters next,

just like work today get paid after work. What one does this birth

gets paid next birth, for food, water, cloths, place of birth,

parents, environment etc. Child dies on birth dies. Some get

killed, Like the 7 children before sri Krishna to mother devaki was

killed by Kans. They were Rishies, did mistake and had to come to

earth. These Rishies requested Bagavan that they get only 1/2 days

to live on earth and back to Vaikunt. Each child Kans killed and the

soul was taken to Vaikunt by Naradh.

 

2) Plenty of food grows in one place and very little or nothing in

another place. This is Prakruthi Dharam designed by creator.

Paramathuma is only witness to the whole function. All deeds and

misdeeds are unmistakably by 10 elements starting from Sun, earth,

sky, fire Etc. Those days saints could get answer to their quarries

of the past from these 10 elements and answers were given. Like

Beeshma and Karna asked Sun God for his birth secret and they got

answers.

 

Sri Basudeb Sen thus said: Food and shelter comes only to whom

entitled. Like Swamy Ranganatha Goswami disciple of Sant Samartha

Ramadoss. Some disciples complained to sant that Ranganath is

enjoying costly cloths, very good food, and shelter with bedding in

forest provided by Marathi Charapathi Shivaji. Sant went there and

told Ranganathan to abandon and go elsewhere. So did ranganath with

just a piece of cloth. At a different location again the solders of

Shivaji took care of Ranganath in same manner. Sant commented to

his disciples that Ranganath is destined to use these comforts by

his Karma, failing which Ranganath has to be born again to use them.

But Ranganath was using them without any attachment in his mind. If

Guru said he abandoned. He never differentiated good food or poor

food, costly cloth or a piece of cloth (Ekka Cowgenam), comfort or

discomfort. His mind was stable. That is what we sadaks require to

have NO raga or Dwesha.

 

3)Spiritualism is grace of Bagavan given to one due his Karma done

by Bajan, Pooja, Namasankeethan Etc in the past. Every Karma has

cause and effect. To eat one has to take food by his hand to mouth

or some feed to. Work to earn money. Be miserly become beggar. Walk

to cover distance. But for Pooja/Bajan, What? You get grace of

being spiritualism. Many saints used caves/ big trees/ashrams as

shelter and food they grew from garden and milked cow, like sants

Vasista and Brihu. Food should not wait for man, hence beg for

food . Food has to be consumed by saying Govinda, Madahava, kesava

else act becomes like animals eating food. Food does not come

effortlessly, but effort put earlier. Similarly renunciation/

interest towards God/ getting Sat Sang/ Guru Etc are efforts of the

past Bagavan says In Geetha. Taking examples of Great men and trying

does not work to that extent, but gives effect later.

 

4) Ramana Rishi left home in distress and hid in a hole on

Thrivannamailai (Hills). 60 days without food and water survived.

This happens as one strictly surrenders to GOD abandoning food and

water. After removing him from hole, it took days to make him walk.

 

5) One focuses on impermanent things or not is by virtue of his

Karma. Like Sant Purander Doss focused on materialism unto 30 years

of his life and by grace of Bagavan`s vision his focus turned on

God. He was Naradh asked by Bagavan to spread HIS message on earth.

Naradh declined saying world is filled with Maya. Bagavan said HE

will rescue him. Declining (Cause) put in 30 years on Maya, later

accepting (Cause) turned him towards GOD. So for one to be in Maya

or Not is based on his Karmic deeds.

 

6) One leaves something behind after death not by his will, but

unavoidable. Paapa or Puniya has to be exhausted here before death

to get liberated. Puiniya are taking away from you by ways material

movable/immovable’s taken by relatives/friends after death. Paapas

are taken away from you by way of abuses you get from people around,

provided you disregard them. These are from Upanashids.

 

7) Common man is common. Rare are saints. Bagavan in Geetha said

that One Baktha in a crore of people is enough for HIM to make

heaven on earth, that too 50000 years.

 

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

You are right.When Swami Vivekananda was on the rock in South India

he realized that no body can adopt any religious practice with empty

belly Then they started such projects try to see that every body

gets minimum requirements of life.They established Ramakrishna

Mission and stated hospitals and educational schools and colleges

Some wealthy people ought to come out for helping poor people.

Watch the activity of iSri Pramukh Swami of Swaminarayan Sanstha.

They also started such benevolent activities if religious activity

be promoted

This is what I think.

Truly yours

 

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

First, we need to understand what do we mean by " spirituality "

 

Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which govern

us all......

like we have Newton's laws of motion... we must follow them....if we

want to be happy, joyful, contented..., have the taste of

abundance,...

 

It is the other way around........

If we understand and follow these fundamental rules, we are

spiritual - degree can be different...

and then the basic needs and the whole world is automatically

assured.....

 

Trust and patience are needed to see how the rules that govern our

beings (spirituality) work for you....

Once we get the taste of it, such questions will never arise......

 

No conditions for practicing spirituality.......because conditions

means no spirituality....away from truth..

 

we all have seen people fasting voluntarily / Rishi leaving food or

other things for months...for that joy of being spiritual.......

 

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

 

Re: Spirituality, Meals and shelter

 

Living a spiritual life and ensuring meals and shelter are not

mutually exclusive options. We have known about many spiritual

leaders of the past who did not have to work/ find meals and sheter.

We would not have got Buddha if Siddarth was worried about food and

shelter. Sri Ramakrishna concentrated on thinking about God and

trying to establish relation with God: food and shelter came to him

without any effort. Those who use internet can be spiritual without

having to worry for food and shelter. There are many who have

assured food and shelter do not try to be spiritual. There are many

in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but food and

shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual. Aged people

often require very little food or very little sheter - many of them

let God to take care of their needs and God indeed does so. So,

there are various possibilities.

No one is forced to become spiritual: those who try to be spiritual

try on their own irrespective of whether they have assured food or

shelter. The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted

to God to take care of the needs. One who loves God and wants to

reach Him through spiritual discussions, does not care whether he

fails to live for want of food and shelter. When spiritual

tendencies come, people tend to forget about food and shelter. Many

Sanyasis had joined Ramakrisna Mission or the Order of the Church

not because they were assured of food and shelter. Those who are

really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet food and shelter

come to them without effort to get food and shelter.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

I am not sure if this is not a provocative question.

 

Never the less my answer is this; look at some of the great spiritual

masters, the last thing they were concerned with was their creature

comforts.

 

The English founder of the Quakers, in and out of jail, sleeping

under hedges and eating turnips out of the fields.

 

Ramakrishna, coming from a poor family ended up hating money,

surrendered to what would be, just reading his story some years back,

I fell spiritually in love with him.

 

Many spiritual aspirants, forsake the comforts of life, and rely on

others good will for sustenance, they loose interest in worldly

things, as they become spiritually focust.

 

So if anything poverty may be a help if one is so focused.

 

From a practical point of view it would be interesting to read a

comment by Sophiaji on the subject. If you have read this question

Sophia.

 

To focus on the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------Jai Hanuman

 

It is abundantly clear that provision for a person's basic needs is

the responsibility of Mother Nature and

In reply I quote verses from Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma:

 

DAADOO DUNIYA BAAWARI , FIKKAR KARE GELI ! ROTI DESHI RAAMJI ,

DOPAARA PELI !!

 

Says Saint Dadooji: The world has gone mad and insane that it worries

( for food etc). In fact before noon God (Raamji) will provide bread

to you !!

 

PRARABDHA PAHLE RACHA, PEECHE RACHA SHARIR ! TULSI CHINTA KYON KARE

BHAJLE SHRI RAGHUVEER !!

 

Says Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj: Destiny has been fixed before

creation of your body. (O Jeeva) Why are you worrying? Why don't you

start doing bhajan of God (Shri Raghuveer) ?

 

MUEN KO HARI DET HAI LAKDI, KAPADA, AAG ! JEEVATA NAR CHINTA KARE

BAAKA BADA ABHAAG !!

 

Says a Saint: Even to a dead person Hari (God) gives wood, fire and

cloth ! How unfortunate is that person who is living and is

worrying ( for basic needs) ?

 

You see, this human birth is given to you for realisation of God and

for that only. Now an essential thing which you have to do to

realise God is " to renounce " (TYAAG). Therefore, you always get

worldly things , throughout your life. Basic needs are air, water,

food, cloth and shelter. That every creature has got. It is not

therefore surprising that each and every human being invariably

leaves something of his own at the time of death. It may be a worn

out trouser or waist or a piece of stick or a penny or a cap , but

something definitely. You exhaust, the treasure of Mother Nature to

provide for your basic needs does not ! (PLEASE CLARIFY LAST

STATEMENT - GT MODERATORS)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

 

I was very happy to go through the valuable thoughts of Geeta

Sadhakas.

I feel that, the basic needs of every creature on this Planet Earth

are met, is true for all life forms other than humans, because Man is

not living on this Earth as Nature has intended. One may argue that,

in whatever way the Man is living, is also intended by Nature.

 

In this, so called, Kali Yuga, a stage has come, when somebody in the

family has to earn money to maintain the family, procure food,

clothing, shelter, medical help, education for children etc.

Otherwise the family has to perish.

 

It is the `Arthanjan Yoga` (Money Earning Efforts) which gets

priority over everything else. We should bear in our minds, that

every common man cannot be a saint, sadhu, sannyasi or yogi.

 

....Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

That is not true at all. In India we have the glorious tradition of

sadhus or holy men who have no home and no assurance of even one

meal a day but still live the spiritual life. All our great saints

followed this tradition and made our country the only one with

living saints. We are fortunate to have some true saints in India

even today to guide us spiritually.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- provision for a person's basic needs is the responsibility of

Mother Nature

- Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which

govern us all

- many in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but

food and shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual.

- The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted to God

to take care of the needs.

- Those who are really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet

food and shelter come to them without effort

- Life of great spiritual masters, indicates the last thing they

were concerned with sustenance. Poverty may be a help. To focus on

the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- it seems to be true for all life forms other than humans. humans

perish, if sustaining activities are not performed.

- Even sadhus that have no assurance of a meal a day still live a

spiritual life.

- No conditions for practicing spirituality. Conditions means away

from truth

- Voluntary fasting for joy of it... therefore where is the question

first meeting basic needs.

- to realise God, " renunciation " is key(TYAAG).

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

- Mother Nature nutures / nourishes all of life, including human

life.

- Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food.

- on surrendering to GOD all basic needs become his

responsibility.

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

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[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Sathyanarainji. Food comes to you based on your

prior " karmas " only, which in present birth is called " destiny " .

There is no doubt. But it is determined before your birth as to what

and how much you will get and then that is further impacted by your

present karmas but only for future. However unless you have reserve

already for bare minimum sustenance, you will enjoy life span only

till that balance is available. And this is decided in advance.

Hence new karmas or this life karmas become irrelevant.

 

Coming to spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. What basic needs are

going to do there? You don't realise God using body. Basic needs are

always with reference to body. SELF is never deficient. Body is used

for " actions " and by " actions " , you can't realise Him. Hence there

is no corelation between the two.

 

There is no clash either. You can earn your livelihood, do your

duties towards family and still pursue spirituality. They can go

hand in hand, simultaneously ! In fact that is considered by all

scriptures and Gitaji as ideal way of persuing spirituality.

 

Swamiji has stated categorically that every human being is a sadhak.

In fact there are definite Laws of Mother Nature, which keep working

universally towards attracting every human being to be a sadhak

(spiritual aspirant) , yogi (equanimous) , sanyaasi (renouncer),

sadhu ( a holy person with divine traits) and Saint (God Realised or

liberated soul ) . All these titles are the ultimate goals of a

human being and naturally therefore he has to become in the end

those only. So long he does not direct himself towards the status of

sadhak, sadhu, sanyaasi, yogi, saint (in that order) , he is not

peaceful and happy. No way he can acquire PEACE in

this " dukhalayam " ! A water drop separated from ocean , must reach

back to it. No way it can remain stable or peaceful or non moving

till it merges back into ocean ! It is law that part gets naturally

attracted to whole. Hence each and every human being must become a

yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED

OF A HUMAN BEING - as per Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and as per

all Scriptures including Bhagavad Gita.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

 

Dear Sadak,

 

THUS SAID VYASJI--Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE

LIKHA HAI, KHAANE WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain ,

the name of eater is written). What does that mean? That means there

is provision for basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may

survive, till the time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or

Kaliyuga is going to do in that ?

Pardon me if I am wrong. What if my name is NOT written on any one

grain. Others name will be but Not mine. May be my name is written

to very small quantity of grains. That is what I meant my bad Karma

of misusing the food, my fate is written well in advance. But one

has to be sure now to respect food, so that ones name becomes

written at later birth. Famous saying is absolutely correct, but its

in depth meaning also needs to be contemplated.

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

 

Hare Krishna

The question was

spirituality can be practiced only when you are assured of two meals

a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot get these things in

life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

My answer was

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

 

I meant to say that spirituality has little connection with simple

praying and doing nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind. One

should have a steady mind, that Krishna is my every-thing, none

else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna and for The Krishna. God

has given us this life to do things which he likes. One can never

sit idle, we may physically sit idle but our brain can't. So its

better to work and a working person need not bother about food and

shelter, he will get it. That's what Gita says, we should keep

working without expecting result of our choice. It is Krishna who

will decide about the result. (Karmanye Vadhikaraste....)

 

Ashok Goenka

-----------------------------

Dear Friends

Most of the comments are misunderstanding the posed question. I think

that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate the physical,

physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach the state of

bliss.

This happens to a contemplative mind and all that is extremely

difficult if not impossible when ones life is a daily struggle for

existence.

Therefore man needs to have his basic needs satisfied before he

contemplates and meditates and is able to start having glimpses of

the divine Self within him.

Dr Vispi Jokhi

-

 

First taking care of material needs and then practising spirituality

is like riding two horses or boats at the same time. One has to

decide what one wants in life - spiritual progress or fulfilment of

one's material needs. If one starts taking care of material needs,

then the spiritual progress will be just like a hobby or some such

thing and not very much more and it will keep the sadhak in the

wheel of re-birth, albeit he will be born in a better situation in

his next birth. People who got enlightenment or who were practising

spirituality, were doing it as a full time job and not as a part

time. Whether their material needs were met or not, they left it to

God.

 

YEH TO GHAR HAI PREM KA, KHALA KA GHAR NAAHIN;

SHEESH KATA KE bhui DHARE SO PETHE UHI MAAHI.

 

(Sherji, Please provide English translation - Gita Talk Moderators)

 

JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Gita is meant for human beings only. There it is categorically

stated : " Ahankaar Vimudhatma kartahamiti manyate " Foolish Jeeva

under illusion of ego " assumes " that he is the doer. If one person

according to you earns livelihood and 10 persons feed on that, what

balance 9 persons have done ? Children, old parents, housewife, sick

and ailing family members? What do they do ? Hence it is not correct

to say that Nature provides basic needs to all creatures but not to

human beings !! What else Mother Nature does except " nurturing

life " ? Mother Nature has to make some as medium, and we feel we

are `Principal' and not `Agent'. That is fault at our end.

 

Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE LIKHA HAI, KHAANE

WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain , the name of eater is

written). What does that mean? That means there is provision for

basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may survive, till the

time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or Kaliyuga is going

to do in that ?

 

As regards your last sentence : Again my answer is , No Sir ! Every

human being is a Sadhak. When the very birth is granted specifically

to you for Paramatma Realisation, how can you be anything less than

a Sadhak? Yogi – means equanimous. Can a human being not be so, if

he wants to ? If yes, how he can not be? You can only be Sadhu,

Sanyaasi, Yogi, Saint – ultimately ! What else you can be? Rest

whatever you try to be, will evaporate ! That you don't know that or

accept that or believe that is your fault. That is called Maya !!

That is Ego ! That needs to be cured !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Hare Krishna,

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

Ashok Goenka

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Ashokji, kindly clarify the connection between your response and

the question being asked. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

 

 

There's something to be said by your statement. Those who are truly

ready to make the next leap in their life need to take radical steps

to achieve it. When one is ready to take the path of the Sadhu this

is the means they need to go about achieving it.

 

" Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down.

For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's

only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)

 

Ben

 

-------------------------------

Mr.Gee Waman,

1) Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food. So it is one's own cause to have a meal a day/ have

square meal a day/ excess food of choice/ suffer without food now

and then. Proofs are there in our histories. One Example: Sudhama

(Kuchela) was student with Sri krishna in Sandeep Ashram. He ate the

portion of food that was for Sri Krishna. Effect he was starving

later with his family. His suffering came to an end only when he

gave 2 handful of rice to Sri Krishna. There was another instance

were a vaisya deprives food to his servant for days causing death of

servant. The same Vaisya born as begger and dies for want of food.

Paramathuma has nothing to do with food; it is one's own Prarabdha

Karma. Even if food provided we see somebody sick unable to eat.

 

People in Africa die for want of food. Children are bony and die.

Water is scares. It is vice versa in other country. On earth the

places are there to suit one`s karma. What we do now matters next,

just like work today get paid after work. What one does this birth

gets paid next birth, for food, water, cloths, place of birth,

parents, environment etc. Child dies on birth dies. Some get

killed, Like the 7 children before sri Krishna to mother devaki was

killed by Kans. They were Rishies, did mistake and had to come to

earth. These Rishies requested Bagavan that they get only 1/2 days

to live on earth and back to Vaikunt. Each child Kans killed and the

soul was taken to Vaikunt by Naradh.

 

2) Plenty of food grows in one place and very little or nothing in

another place. This is Prakruthi Dharam designed by creator.

Paramathuma is only witness to the whole function. All deeds and

misdeeds are unmistakably by 10 elements starting from Sun, earth,

sky, fire Etc. Those days saints could get answer to their quarries

of the past from these 10 elements and answers were given. Like

Beeshma and Karna asked Sun God for his birth secret and they got

answers.

 

Sri Basudeb Sen thus said: Food and shelter comes only to whom

entitled. Like Swamy Ranganatha Goswami disciple of Sant Samartha

Ramadoss. Some disciples complained to sant that Ranganath is

enjoying costly cloths, very good food, and shelter with bedding in

forest provided by Marathi Charapathi Shivaji. Sant went there and

told Ranganathan to abandon and go elsewhere. So did ranganath with

just a piece of cloth. At a different location again the solders of

Shivaji took care of Ranganath in same manner. Sant commented to

his disciples that Ranganath is destined to use these comforts by

his Karma, failing which Ranganath has to be born again to use them.

But Ranganath was using them without any attachment in his mind. If

Guru said he abandoned. He never differentiated good food or poor

food, costly cloth or a piece of cloth (Ekka Cowgenam), comfort or

discomfort. His mind was stable. That is what we sadaks require to

have NO raga or Dwesha.

 

3)Spiritualism is grace of Bagavan given to one due his Karma done

by Bajan, Pooja, Namasankeethan Etc in the past. Every Karma has

cause and effect. To eat one has to take food by his hand to mouth

or some feed to. Work to earn money. Be miserly become beggar. Walk

to cover distance. But for Pooja/Bajan, What? You get grace of

being spiritualism. Many saints used caves/ big trees/ashrams as

shelter and food they grew from garden and milked cow, like sants

Vasista and Brihu. Food should not wait for man, hence beg for

food . Food has to be consumed by saying Govinda, Madahava, kesava

else act becomes like animals eating food. Food does not come

effortlessly, but effort put earlier. Similarly renunciation/

interest towards God/ getting Sat Sang/ Guru Etc are efforts of the

past Bagavan says In Geetha. Taking examples of Great men and trying

does not work to that extent, but gives effect later.

 

4) Ramana Rishi left home in distress and hid in a hole on

Thrivannamailai (Hills). 60 days without food and water survived.

This happens as one strictly surrenders to GOD abandoning food and

water. After removing him from hole, it took days to make him walk.

 

5) One focuses on impermanent things or not is by virtue of his

Karma. Like Sant Purander Doss focused on materialism unto 30 years

of his life and by grace of Bagavan`s vision his focus turned on

God. He was Naradh asked by Bagavan to spread HIS message on earth.

Naradh declined saying world is filled with Maya. Bagavan said HE

will rescue him. Declining (Cause) put in 30 years on Maya, later

accepting (Cause) turned him towards GOD. So for one to be in Maya

or Not is based on his Karmic deeds.

 

6) One leaves something behind after death not by his will, but

unavoidable. Paapa or Puniya has to be exhausted here before death

to get liberated. Puiniya are taking away from you by ways material

movable/immovable’s taken by relatives/friends after death. Paapas

are taken away from you by way of abuses you get from people around,

provided you disregard them. These are from Upanashids.

 

7) Common man is common. Rare are saints. Bagavan in Geetha said

that One Baktha in a crore of people is enough for HIM to make

heaven on earth, that too 50000 years.

 

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

You are right.When Swami Vivekananda was on the rock in South India

he realized that no body can adopt any religious practice with empty

belly Then they started such projects try to see that every body

gets minimum requirements of life.They established Ramakrishna

Mission and stated hospitals and educational schools and colleges

Some wealthy people ought to come out for helping poor people.

Watch the activity of iSri Pramukh Swami of Swaminarayan Sanstha.

They also started such benevolent activities if religious activity

be promoted

This is what I think.

Truly yours

 

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

First, we need to understand what do we mean by " spirituality "

 

Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which govern

us all......

like we have Newton's laws of motion... we must follow them....if we

want to be happy, joyful, contented..., have the taste of

abundance,...

 

It is the other way around........

If we understand and follow these fundamental rules, we are

spiritual - degree can be different...

and then the basic needs and the whole world is automatically

assured.....

 

Trust and patience are needed to see how the rules that govern our

beings (spirituality) work for you....

Once we get the taste of it, such questions will never arise......

 

No conditions for practicing spirituality.......because conditions

means no spirituality....away from truth..

 

we all have seen people fasting voluntarily / Rishi leaving food or

other things for months...for that joy of being spiritual.......

 

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

 

Re: Spirituality, Meals and shelter

 

Living a spiritual life and ensuring meals and shelter are not

mutually exclusive options. We have known about many spiritual

leaders of the past who did not have to work/ find meals and sheter.

We would not have got Buddha if Siddarth was worried about food and

shelter. Sri Ramakrishna concentrated on thinking about God and

trying to establish relation with God: food and shelter came to him

without any effort. Those who use internet can be spiritual without

having to worry for food and shelter. There are many who have

assured food and shelter do not try to be spiritual. There are many

in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but food and

shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual. Aged people

often require very little food or very little sheter - many of them

let God to take care of their needs and God indeed does so. So,

there are various possibilities.

No one is forced to become spiritual: those who try to be spiritual

try on their own irrespective of whether they have assured food or

shelter. The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted

to God to take care of the needs. One who loves God and wants to

reach Him through spiritual discussions, does not care whether he

fails to live for want of food and shelter. When spiritual

tendencies come, people tend to forget about food and shelter. Many

Sanyasis had joined Ramakrisna Mission or the Order of the Church

not because they were assured of food and shelter. Those who are

really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet food and shelter

come to them without effort to get food and shelter.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

I am not sure if this is not a provocative question.

 

Never the less my answer is this; look at some of the great spiritual

masters, the last thing they were concerned with was their creature

comforts.

 

The English founder of the Quakers, in and out of jail, sleeping

under hedges and eating turnips out of the fields.

 

Ramakrishna, coming from a poor family ended up hating money,

surrendered to what would be, just reading his story some years back,

I fell spiritually in love with him.

 

Many spiritual aspirants, forsake the comforts of life, and rely on

others good will for sustenance, they loose interest in worldly

things, as they become spiritually focust.

 

So if anything poverty may be a help if one is so focused.

 

From a practical point of view it would be interesting to read a

comment by Sophiaji on the subject. If you have read this question

Sophia.

 

To focus on the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------Jai Hanuman

 

It is abundantly clear that provision for a person's basic needs is

the responsibility of Mother Nature and

In reply I quote verses from Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma:

 

DAADOO DUNIYA BAAWARI , FIKKAR KARE GELI ! ROTI DESHI RAAMJI ,

DOPAARA PELI !!

 

Says Saint Dadooji: The world has gone mad and insane that it worries

( for food etc). In fact before noon God (Raamji) will provide bread

to you !!

 

PRARABDHA PAHLE RACHA, PEECHE RACHA SHARIR ! TULSI CHINTA KYON KARE

BHAJLE SHRI RAGHUVEER !!

 

Says Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj: Destiny has been fixed before

creation of your body. (O Jeeva) Why are you worrying? Why don't you

start doing bhajan of God (Shri Raghuveer) ?

 

MUEN KO HARI DET HAI LAKDI, KAPADA, AAG ! JEEVATA NAR CHINTA KARE

BAAKA BADA ABHAAG !!

 

Says a Saint: Even to a dead person Hari (God) gives wood, fire and

cloth ! How unfortunate is that person who is living and is

worrying ( for basic needs) ?

 

You see, this human birth is given to you for realisation of God and

for that only. Now an essential thing which you have to do to

realise God is " to renounce " (TYAAG). Therefore, you always get

worldly things , throughout your life. Basic needs are air, water,

food, cloth and shelter. That every creature has got. It is not

therefore surprising that each and every human being invariably

leaves something of his own at the time of death. It may be a worn

out trouser or waist or a piece of stick or a penny or a cap , but

something definitely. You exhaust, the treasure of Mother Nature to

provide for your basic needs does not ! (PLEASE CLARIFY LAST

STATEMENT - GT MODERATORS)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

 

I was very happy to go through the valuable thoughts of Geeta

Sadhakas.

I feel that, the basic needs of every creature on this Planet Earth

are met, is true for all life forms other than humans, because Man is

not living on this Earth as Nature has intended. One may argue that,

in whatever way the Man is living, is also intended by Nature.

 

In this, so called, Kali Yuga, a stage has come, when somebody in the

family has to earn money to maintain the family, procure food,

clothing, shelter, medical help, education for children etc.

Otherwise the family has to perish.

 

It is the `Arthanjan Yoga` (Money Earning Efforts) which gets

priority over everything else. We should bear in our minds, that

every common man cannot be a saint, sadhu, sannyasi or yogi.

 

....Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

That is not true at all. In India we have the glorious tradition of

sadhus or holy men who have no home and no assurance of even one

meal a day but still live the spiritual life. All our great saints

followed this tradition and made our country the only one with

living saints. We are fortunate to have some true saints in India

even today to guide us spiritually.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- provision for a person's basic needs is the responsibility of

Mother Nature

- Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which

govern us all

- many in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but

food and shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual.

- The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted to God

to take care of the needs.

- Those who are really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet

food and shelter come to them without effort

- Life of great spiritual masters, indicates the last thing they

were concerned with sustenance. Poverty may be a help. To focus on

the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- it seems to be true for all life forms other than humans. humans

perish, if sustaining activities are not performed.

- Even sadhus that have no assurance of a meal a day still live a

spiritual life.

- No conditions for practicing spirituality. Conditions means away

from truth

- Voluntary fasting for joy of it... therefore where is the question

first meeting basic needs.

- to realise God, " renunciation " is key(TYAAG).

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

- Mother Nature nutures / nourishes all of life, including human

life.

- Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food.

- on surrendering to GOD all basic needs become his

responsibility.

- one has to be sure now to respect food, so that one's name is on

future food grain.

- spirituality has little connection with simple praying and doing

nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind (steadiness) that Krishna

is my every-thing, none else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna

and for The Krishna.

- I think that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate

the physical, physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach

the state of bliss. This happens to a contemplative mind and all

that is extremely difficult if not impossible when ones life is a

daily struggle for existence.

- spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. Self is never deficient.

- every human being is a sadhak. A water drop separated from ocean ,

must reach back to it's source (the ocean).

- Every human being must strive to become a yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint

etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED OF A HUMAN BEING

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

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[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Priy sadhaks

I think we must understand what spirituality is?

according to gitaji Ch 8 our existence is spiritual.

So we do every bit for our existence.

Even Q & A on this platform shows our existence.

Both minimum needs & spirituality are same.

Pl contemplate...............

I dont believe in long explanations which people rarely consume.

short & sweet.

loves

Raja Gurdasani

 

-------------------------

 

YEH TO GHAR HAI PREM KA, KHALA KA GHAR NAHIN;

MUI KATA KE BHUI DHARE TAB PETHE UHI MAAHIN. (KABIR)

 

English translation: This is the house of love, not your mausi's

(mother's sister's) house;

when you cut your head and put it on the ground, only then you can

enter into him, i.e. Bhagwan.

 

Also, when you are so much in love with him that you do not think of

or care for anything else, only then you can enter into him, i.,e.

make spiritual progress!

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

-----------------------------

Dear friends,

No activity is exclusive. There is spirituality in the pursuit of

material wealth too. As long as a householder follows the tenets of

dharma and does all his activities in a detached manner he will be

spiritual. But for going within he has to use the gross body and this

body must be rendered fit and healthy to pursue this goal. Two square

meals and basic needs, mind you not greed must be satisfied for man

to

pursue the quest for spiritual knowledge.

Dr. Vispi Jokhi

----------------------

Shree Hari Ram ram

Raja Gurdasaniji says Both minimum needs & spirituality are same.

whereas Dr. Vispi Jokhiji says, There is spirituality in the pursuit

of material wealth too. These both appear to be contradictory.

Which one is true? From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Sathyanarainji. Food comes to you based on your

prior " karmas " only, which in present birth is called " destiny " .

There is no doubt. But it is determined before your birth as to what

and how much you will get and then that is further impacted by your

present karmas but only for future. However unless you have reserve

already for bare minimum sustenance, you will enjoy life span only

till that balance is available. And this is decided in advance.

Hence new karmas or this life karmas become irrelevant.

 

Coming to spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. What basic needs are

going to do there? You don't realise God using body. Basic needs are

always with reference to body. SELF is never deficient. Body is used

for " actions " and by " actions " , you can't realise Him. Hence there

is no corelation between the two.

 

There is no clash either. You can earn your livelihood, do your

duties towards family and still pursue spirituality. They can go

hand in hand, simultaneously ! In fact that is considered by all

scriptures and Gitaji as ideal way of persuing spirituality.

 

Swamiji has stated categorically that every human being is a sadhak.

In fact there are definite Laws of Mother Nature, which keep working

universally towards attracting every human being to be a sadhak

(spiritual aspirant) , yogi (equanimous) , sanyaasi (renouncer),

sadhu ( a holy person with divine traits) and Saint (God Realised or

liberated soul ) . All these titles are the ultimate goals of a

human being and naturally therefore he has to become in the end

those only. So long he does not direct himself towards the status of

sadhak, sadhu, sanyaasi, yogi, saint (in that order) , he is not

peaceful and happy. No way he can acquire PEACE in

this " dukhalayam " ! A water drop separated from ocean , must reach

back to it. No way it can remain stable or peaceful or non moving

till it merges back into ocean ! It is law that part gets naturally

attracted to whole. Hence each and every human being must become a

yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED

OF A HUMAN BEING - as per Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and as per

all Scriptures including Bhagavad Gita.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

 

Dear Sadak,

 

THUS SAID VYASJI--Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE

LIKHA HAI, KHAANE WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain ,

the name of eater is written). What does that mean? That means there

is provision for basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may

survive, till the time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or

Kaliyuga is going to do in that ?

Pardon me if I am wrong. What if my name is NOT written on any one

grain. Others name will be but Not mine. May be my name is written

to very small quantity of grains. That is what I meant my bad Karma

of misusing the food, my fate is written well in advance. But one

has to be sure now to respect food, so that ones name becomes

written at later birth. Famous saying is absolutely correct, but its

in depth meaning also needs to be contemplated.

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

 

Hare Krishna

The question was

spirituality can be practiced only when you are assured of two meals

a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot get these things in

life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

My answer was

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

 

I meant to say that spirituality has little connection with simple

praying and doing nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind. One

should have a steady mind, that Krishna is my every-thing, none

else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna and for The Krishna. God

has given us this life to do things which he likes. One can never

sit idle, we may physically sit idle but our brain can't. So its

better to work and a working person need not bother about food and

shelter, he will get it. That's what Gita says, we should keep

working without expecting result of our choice. It is Krishna who

will decide about the result. (Karmanye Vadhikaraste....)

 

Ashok Goenka

-----------------------------

Dear Friends

Most of the comments are misunderstanding the posed question. I think

that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate the physical,

physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach the state of

bliss.

This happens to a contemplative mind and all that is extremely

difficult if not impossible when ones life is a daily struggle for

existence.

Therefore man needs to have his basic needs satisfied before he

contemplates and meditates and is able to start having glimpses of

the divine Self within him.

Dr Vispi Jokhi

-

 

First taking care of material needs and then practising spirituality

is like riding two horses or boats at the same time. One has to

decide what one wants in life - spiritual progress or fulfilment of

one's material needs. If one starts taking care of material needs,

then the spiritual progress will be just like a hobby or some such

thing and not very much more and it will keep the sadhak in the

wheel of re-birth, albeit he will be born in a better situation in

his next birth. People who got enlightenment or who were practising

spirituality, were doing it as a full time job and not as a part

time. Whether their material needs were met or not, they left it to

God.

 

YEH TO GHAR HAI PREM KA, KHALA KA GHAR NAAHIN;

SHEESH KATA KE bhui DHARE SO PETHE UHI MAAHI.

 

(Sherji, Please provide English translation - Gita Talk Moderators)

 

JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Gita is meant for human beings only. There it is categorically

stated : " Ahankaar Vimudhatma kartahamiti manyate " Foolish Jeeva

under illusion of ego " assumes " that he is the doer. If one person

according to you earns livelihood and 10 persons feed on that, what

balance 9 persons have done ? Children, old parents, housewife, sick

and ailing family members? What do they do ? Hence it is not correct

to say that Nature provides basic needs to all creatures but not to

human beings !! What else Mother Nature does except " nurturing

life " ? Mother Nature has to make some as medium, and we feel we

are `Principal' and not `Agent'. That is fault at our end.

 

Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE LIKHA HAI, KHAANE

WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain , the name of eater is

written). What does that mean? That means there is provision for

basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may survive, till the

time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or Kaliyuga is going

to do in that ?

 

As regards your last sentence : Again my answer is , No Sir ! Every

human being is a Sadhak. When the very birth is granted specifically

to you for Paramatma Realisation, how can you be anything less than

a Sadhak? Yogi – means equanimous. Can a human being not be so, if

he wants to ? If yes, how he can not be? You can only be Sadhu,

Sanyaasi, Yogi, Saint – ultimately ! What else you can be? Rest

whatever you try to be, will evaporate ! That you don't know that or

accept that or believe that is your fault. That is called Maya !!

That is Ego ! That needs to be cured !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Hare Krishna,

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

Ashok Goenka

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Ashokji, kindly clarify the connection between your response and

the question being asked. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

 

 

There's something to be said by your statement. Those who are truly

ready to make the next leap in their life need to take radical steps

to achieve it. When one is ready to take the path of the Sadhu this

is the means they need to go about achieving it.

 

" Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down.

For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's

only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)

 

Ben

 

-------------------------------

Mr.Gee Waman,

1) Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food. So it is one's own cause to have a meal a day/ have

square meal a day/ excess food of choice/ suffer without food now

and then. Proofs are there in our histories. One Example: Sudhama

(Kuchela) was student with Sri krishna in Sandeep Ashram. He ate the

portion of food that was for Sri Krishna. Effect he was starving

later with his family. His suffering came to an end only when he

gave 2 handful of rice to Sri Krishna. There was another instance

were a vaisya deprives food to his servant for days causing death of

servant. The same Vaisya born as begger and dies for want of food.

Paramathuma has nothing to do with food; it is one's own Prarabdha

Karma. Even if food provided we see somebody sick unable to eat.

 

People in Africa die for want of food. Children are bony and die.

Water is scares. It is vice versa in other country. On earth the

places are there to suit one`s karma. What we do now matters next,

just like work today get paid after work. What one does this birth

gets paid next birth, for food, water, cloths, place of birth,

parents, environment etc. Child dies on birth dies. Some get

killed, Like the 7 children before sri Krishna to mother devaki was

killed by Kans. They were Rishies, did mistake and had to come to

earth. These Rishies requested Bagavan that they get only 1/2 days

to live on earth and back to Vaikunt. Each child Kans killed and the

soul was taken to Vaikunt by Naradh.

 

2) Plenty of food grows in one place and very little or nothing in

another place. This is Prakruthi Dharam designed by creator.

Paramathuma is only witness to the whole function. All deeds and

misdeeds are unmistakably by 10 elements starting from Sun, earth,

sky, fire Etc. Those days saints could get answer to their quarries

of the past from these 10 elements and answers were given. Like

Beeshma and Karna asked Sun God for his birth secret and they got

answers.

 

Sri Basudeb Sen thus said: Food and shelter comes only to whom

entitled. Like Swamy Ranganatha Goswami disciple of Sant Samartha

Ramadoss. Some disciples complained to sant that Ranganath is

enjoying costly cloths, very good food, and shelter with bedding in

forest provided by Marathi Charapathi Shivaji. Sant went there and

told Ranganathan to abandon and go elsewhere. So did ranganath with

just a piece of cloth. At a different location again the solders of

Shivaji took care of Ranganath in same manner. Sant commented to

his disciples that Ranganath is destined to use these comforts by

his Karma, failing which Ranganath has to be born again to use them.

But Ranganath was using them without any attachment in his mind. If

Guru said he abandoned. He never differentiated good food or poor

food, costly cloth or a piece of cloth (Ekka Cowgenam), comfort or

discomfort. His mind was stable. That is what we sadaks require to

have NO raga or Dwesha.

 

3)Spiritualism is grace of Bagavan given to one due his Karma done

by Bajan, Pooja, Namasankeethan Etc in the past. Every Karma has

cause and effect. To eat one has to take food by his hand to mouth

or some feed to. Work to earn money. Be miserly become beggar. Walk

to cover distance. But for Pooja/Bajan, What? You get grace of

being spiritualism. Many saints used caves/ big trees/ashrams as

shelter and food they grew from garden and milked cow, like sants

Vasista and Brihu. Food should not wait for man, hence beg for

food . Food has to be consumed by saying Govinda, Madahava, kesava

else act becomes like animals eating food. Food does not come

effortlessly, but effort put earlier. Similarly renunciation/

interest towards God/ getting Sat Sang/ Guru Etc are efforts of the

past Bagavan says In Geetha. Taking examples of Great men and trying

does not work to that extent, but gives effect later.

 

4) Ramana Rishi left home in distress and hid in a hole on

Thrivannamailai (Hills). 60 days without food and water survived.

This happens as one strictly surrenders to GOD abandoning food and

water. After removing him from hole, it took days to make him walk.

 

5) One focuses on impermanent things or not is by virtue of his

Karma. Like Sant Purander Doss focused on materialism unto 30 years

of his life and by grace of Bagavan`s vision his focus turned on

God. He was Naradh asked by Bagavan to spread HIS message on earth.

Naradh declined saying world is filled with Maya. Bagavan said HE

will rescue him. Declining (Cause) put in 30 years on Maya, later

accepting (Cause) turned him towards GOD. So for one to be in Maya

or Not is based on his Karmic deeds.

 

6) One leaves something behind after death not by his will, but

unavoidable. Paapa or Puniya has to be exhausted here before death

to get liberated. Puiniya are taking away from you by ways material

movable/immovable’s taken by relatives/friends after death. Paapas

are taken away from you by way of abuses you get from people around,

provided you disregard them. These are from Upanashids.

 

7) Common man is common. Rare are saints. Bagavan in Geetha said

that One Baktha in a crore of people is enough for HIM to make

heaven on earth, that too 50000 years.

 

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

You are right.When Swami Vivekananda was on the rock in South India

he realized that no body can adopt any religious practice with empty

belly Then they started such projects try to see that every body

gets minimum requirements of life.They established Ramakrishna

Mission and stated hospitals and educational schools and colleges

Some wealthy people ought to come out for helping poor people.

Watch the activity of iSri Pramukh Swami of Swaminarayan Sanstha.

They also started such benevolent activities if religious activity

be promoted

This is what I think.

Truly yours

 

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

First, we need to understand what do we mean by " spirituality "

 

Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which govern

us all......

like we have Newton's laws of motion... we must follow them....if we

want to be happy, joyful, contented..., have the taste of

abundance,...

 

It is the other way around........

If we understand and follow these fundamental rules, we are

spiritual - degree can be different...

and then the basic needs and the whole world is automatically

assured.....

 

Trust and patience are needed to see how the rules that govern our

beings (spirituality) work for you....

Once we get the taste of it, such questions will never arise......

 

No conditions for practicing spirituality.......because conditions

means no spirituality....away from truth..

 

we all have seen people fasting voluntarily / Rishi leaving food or

other things for months...for that joy of being spiritual.......

 

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

 

Re: Spirituality, Meals and shelter

 

Living a spiritual life and ensuring meals and shelter are not

mutually exclusive options. We have known about many spiritual

leaders of the past who did not have to work/ find meals and sheter.

We would not have got Buddha if Siddarth was worried about food and

shelter. Sri Ramakrishna concentrated on thinking about God and

trying to establish relation with God: food and shelter came to him

without any effort. Those who use internet can be spiritual without

having to worry for food and shelter. There are many who have

assured food and shelter do not try to be spiritual. There are many

in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but food and

shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual. Aged people

often require very little food or very little sheter - many of them

let God to take care of their needs and God indeed does so. So,

there are various possibilities.

No one is forced to become spiritual: those who try to be spiritual

try on their own irrespective of whether they have assured food or

shelter. The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted

to God to take care of the needs. One who loves God and wants to

reach Him through spiritual discussions, does not care whether he

fails to live for want of food and shelter. When spiritual

tendencies come, people tend to forget about food and shelter. Many

Sanyasis had joined Ramakrisna Mission or the Order of the Church

not because they were assured of food and shelter. Those who are

really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet food and shelter

come to them without effort to get food and shelter.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

I am not sure if this is not a provocative question.

 

Never the less my answer is this; look at some of the great spiritual

masters, the last thing they were concerned with was their creature

comforts.

 

The English founder of the Quakers, in and out of jail, sleeping

under hedges and eating turnips out of the fields.

 

Ramakrishna, coming from a poor family ended up hating money,

surrendered to what would be, just reading his story some years back,

I fell spiritually in love with him.

 

Many spiritual aspirants, forsake the comforts of life, and rely on

others good will for sustenance, they loose interest in worldly

things, as they become spiritually focust.

 

So if anything poverty may be a help if one is so focused.

 

From a practical point of view it would be interesting to read a

comment by Sophiaji on the subject. If you have read this question

Sophia.

 

To focus on the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------Jai Hanuman

 

It is abundantly clear that provision for a person's basic needs is

the responsibility of Mother Nature and

In reply I quote verses from Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma:

 

DAADOO DUNIYA BAAWARI , FIKKAR KARE GELI ! ROTI DESHI RAAMJI ,

DOPAARA PELI !!

 

Says Saint Dadooji: The world has gone mad and insane that it worries

( for food etc). In fact before noon God (Raamji) will provide bread

to you !!

 

PRARABDHA PAHLE RACHA, PEECHE RACHA SHARIR ! TULSI CHINTA KYON KARE

BHAJLE SHRI RAGHUVEER !!

 

Says Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj: Destiny has been fixed before

creation of your body. (O Jeeva) Why are you worrying? Why don't you

start doing bhajan of God (Shri Raghuveer) ?

 

MUEN KO HARI DET HAI LAKDI, KAPADA, AAG ! JEEVATA NAR CHINTA KARE

BAAKA BADA ABHAAG !!

 

Says a Saint: Even to a dead person Hari (God) gives wood, fire and

cloth ! How unfortunate is that person who is living and is

worrying ( for basic needs) ?

 

You see, this human birth is given to you for realisation of God and

for that only. Now an essential thing which you have to do to

realise God is " to renounce " (TYAAG). Therefore, you always get

worldly things , throughout your life. Basic needs are air, water,

food, cloth and shelter. That every creature has got. It is not

therefore surprising that each and every human being invariably

leaves something of his own at the time of death. It may be a worn

out trouser or waist or a piece of stick or a penny or a cap , but

something definitely. You exhaust, the treasure of Mother Nature to

provide for your basic needs does not ! (PLEASE CLARIFY LAST

STATEMENT - GT MODERATORS)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

 

I was very happy to go through the valuable thoughts of Geeta

Sadhakas.

I feel that, the basic needs of every creature on this Planet Earth

are met, is true for all life forms other than humans, because Man is

not living on this Earth as Nature has intended. One may argue that,

in whatever way the Man is living, is also intended by Nature.

 

In this, so called, Kali Yuga, a stage has come, when somebody in the

family has to earn money to maintain the family, procure food,

clothing, shelter, medical help, education for children etc.

Otherwise the family has to perish.

 

It is the `Arthanjan Yoga` (Money Earning Efforts) which gets

priority over everything else. We should bear in our minds, that

every common man cannot be a saint, sadhu, sannyasi or yogi.

 

....Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

That is not true at all. In India we have the glorious tradition of

sadhus or holy men who have no home and no assurance of even one

meal a day but still live the spiritual life. All our great saints

followed this tradition and made our country the only one with

living saints. We are fortunate to have some true saints in India

even today to guide us spiritually.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- provision for a person's basic needs is the responsibility of

Mother Nature

- Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which

govern us all

- many in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but

food and shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual.

- The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted to God

to take care of the needs.

- Those who are really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet

food and shelter come to them without effort

- Life of great spiritual masters, indicates the last thing they

were concerned with sustenance. Poverty may be a help. To focus on

the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- it seems to be true for all life forms other than humans. humans

perish, if sustaining activities are not performed.

- Even sadhus that have no assurance of a meal a day still live a

spiritual life.

- No conditions for practicing spirituality. Conditions means away

from truth

- our existance is spiritual.

- Both minimum needs & spirituality are same

- Voluntary fasting for joy of it... therefore where is the question

first meeting basic needs.

- to realise God, " renunciation " is key(TYAAG).

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

- Mother Nature nutures / nourishes all of life, including human

life.

- Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food.

- on surrendering to GOD all basic needs become his

responsibility.

- one has to be sure now to respect food, so that one's name is on

future food grain.

- spirituality has little connection with simple praying and doing

nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind (steadiness) that Krishna

is my every-thing, none else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna

and for The Krishna.

- I think that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate

the physical, physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach

the state of bliss. This happens to a contemplative mind and all

that is extremely difficult if not impossible when ones life is a

daily struggle for existence.

- spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. Self is never deficient.

- every human being is a sadhak. A water drop separated from ocean ,

must reach back to it's source (the ocean).

- Every human being must strive to become a yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint

etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED OF A HUMAN BEING

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message:

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[Guest guest]

Am I right if I say that spirituality can be practised only when you

are assured of two meals a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot

get these things in life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

NEW POSTING

 

Is Spirituality Only Possible after Basic Needs are Met?

 

The question is a vicious plot weaved by an unwilling mind that

pretends cleverness ... in my opinion.

 

Then raises an end-less chain of questions behind ...

 

Question Series - I:

 

Is there any prescribed pattern for possibility in this world?

 

Isn't anything possible anywhere, anytime and anyhow?

 

Also, is anything " possible " unless all the partners are willing in

the first place?

 

Spirituality being within, can it ever be " possible " unless you

initiate it?

 

.... ... ...

 

Question Series - II:

 

Is spirituality related to the mundane needs of eating, sleeping,

etc.? If so, how?? and, why???

 

Isn't the spirituality the most basic need in the first place?

 

What is the " basic need " that is mentioned here after all (apart

from spirituality)?

 

Can such a " basic need " be really defined with no ambiguities,

variations, deviations, etc.?

 

.... ... ...

 

Question Series - III:

 

Have we ever stuck to the appreciation of this " basic need " and put

a period when it was acheived?

 

Has this omni-elastic balloon of " basic need " ever stopped

inflating?

 

Then ... when will it stop? When will that balloon say, " enough! " ??

Will it ever say that???

 

.... ... ...

 

Question Series - IV:

 

Who said that spirituality and the other " basic needs " are mutually

exclusive as if one cannot eat and sleep by becoming spiritual? If

so why?? ... and how???

 

Is the activities such as eating, sleeping etc. are important or the

happiness beneath? If something can take you there (Happiness) in

spite of loosing other things, why not?

 

And, again ... who said that something that brings happiness will

take away other things?

 

Even if the " other things " are taken away ... isn't it good?

Afterall, these " other things " had failed bring you happiness

anyway!

 

.... ... ...

 

Final Question(?!):

 

Why should one be scared that the " basic needs " will be taken away

if one spirituality is attempted?

 

My friend, who let this " scare " into your psyche? In fact, it is The

Spirituality that makes all our " basic needs " meaningful and

fulfilled at once ... if ... only if we really realize what

spirituality means.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana

 

-------------------------

 

Thus said Sadak,

Gee Waman You cannot get these things in life by simply praying and

doing nothing..

Dear Sadak it OK doing nothing matters. But it matters a lot by

simply praying. If Sir, you want you can have number of examples

about simply praying.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Priy sadhaks

I think we must understand what spirituality is?

according to gitaji Ch 8 our existence is spiritual.

So we do every bit for our existence.

Even Q & A on this platform shows our existence.

Both minimum needs & spirituality are same.

Pl contemplate...............

I dont believe in long explanations which people rarely consume.

short & sweet.

loves

Raja Gurdasani

 

-------------------------

 

YEH TO GHAR HAI PREM KA, KHALA KA GHAR NAHIN;

MUI KATA KE BHUI DHARE TAB PETHE UHI MAAHIN. (KABIR)

 

English translation: This is the house of love, not your mausi's

(mother's sister's) house;

when you cut your head and put it on the ground, only then you can

enter into him, i.e. Bhagwan.

 

Also, when you are so much in love with him that you do not think of

or care for anything else, only then you can enter into him, i.,e.

make spiritual progress!

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

-----------------------------

Dear friends,

No activity is exclusive. There is spirituality in the pursuit of

material wealth too. As long as a householder follows the tenets of

dharma and does all his activities in a detached manner he will be

spiritual. But for going within he has to use the gross body and this

body must be rendered fit and healthy to pursue this goal. Two square

meals and basic needs, mind you not greed must be satisfied for man

to

pursue the quest for spiritual knowledge.

Dr. Vispi Jokhi

----------------------

Shree Hari Ram ram

Raja Gurdasaniji says Both minimum needs & spirituality are same.

whereas Dr. Vispi Jokhiji says, There is spirituality in the pursuit

of material wealth too. These both appear to be contradictory.

Which one is true? From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

I agree with Sathyanarainji. Food comes to you based on your

prior " karmas " only, which in present birth is called " destiny " .

There is no doubt. But it is determined before your birth as to what

and how much you will get and then that is further impacted by your

present karmas but only for future. However unless you have reserve

already for bare minimum sustenance, you will enjoy life span only

till that balance is available. And this is decided in advance.

Hence new karmas or this life karmas become irrelevant.

 

Coming to spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. What basic needs are

going to do there? You don't realise God using body. Basic needs are

always with reference to body. SELF is never deficient. Body is used

for " actions " and by " actions " , you can't realise Him. Hence there

is no corelation between the two.

 

There is no clash either. You can earn your livelihood, do your

duties towards family and still pursue spirituality. They can go

hand in hand, simultaneously ! In fact that is considered by all

scriptures and Gitaji as ideal way of persuing spirituality.

 

Swamiji has stated categorically that every human being is a sadhak.

In fact there are definite Laws of Mother Nature, which keep working

universally towards attracting every human being to be a sadhak

(spiritual aspirant) , yogi (equanimous) , sanyaasi (renouncer),

sadhu ( a holy person with divine traits) and Saint (God Realised or

liberated soul ) . All these titles are the ultimate goals of a

human being and naturally therefore he has to become in the end

those only. So long he does not direct himself towards the status of

sadhak, sadhu, sanyaasi, yogi, saint (in that order) , he is not

peaceful and happy. No way he can acquire PEACE in

this " dukhalayam " ! A water drop separated from ocean , must reach

back to it. No way it can remain stable or peaceful or non moving

till it merges back into ocean ! It is law that part gets naturally

attracted to whole. Hence each and every human being must become a

yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED

OF A HUMAN BEING - as per Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and as per

all Scriptures including Bhagavad Gita.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

-----------------------------

 

 

Dear Sadak,

 

THUS SAID VYASJI--Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE

LIKHA HAI, KHAANE WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain ,

the name of eater is written). What does that mean? That means there

is provision for basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may

survive, till the time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or

Kaliyuga is going to do in that ?

Pardon me if I am wrong. What if my name is NOT written on any one

grain. Others name will be but Not mine. May be my name is written

to very small quantity of grains. That is what I meant my bad Karma

of misusing the food, my fate is written well in advance. But one

has to be sure now to respect food, so that ones name becomes

written at later birth. Famous saying is absolutely correct, but its

in depth meaning also needs to be contemplated.

 

baiya sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

 

Hare Krishna

The question was

spirituality can be practiced only when you are assured of two meals

a day and a safe shelter to live. You cannot get these things in

life by simply praying and doing nothing...

 

My answer was

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

 

I meant to say that spirituality has little connection with simple

praying and doing nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind. One

should have a steady mind, that Krishna is my every-thing, none

else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna and for The Krishna. God

has given us this life to do things which he likes. One can never

sit idle, we may physically sit idle but our brain can't. So its

better to work and a working person need not bother about food and

shelter, he will get it. That's what Gita says, we should keep

working without expecting result of our choice. It is Krishna who

will decide about the result. (Karmanye Vadhikaraste....)

 

Ashok Goenka

-----------------------------

Dear Friends

Most of the comments are misunderstanding the posed question. I think

that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate the physical,

physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach the state of

bliss.

This happens to a contemplative mind and all that is extremely

difficult if not impossible when ones life is a daily struggle for

existence.

Therefore man needs to have his basic needs satisfied before he

contemplates and meditates and is able to start having glimpses of

the divine Self within him.

Dr Vispi Jokhi

-

 

First taking care of material needs and then practising spirituality

is like riding two horses or boats at the same time. One has to

decide what one wants in life - spiritual progress or fulfilment of

one's material needs. If one starts taking care of material needs,

then the spiritual progress will be just like a hobby or some such

thing and not very much more and it will keep the sadhak in the

wheel of re-birth, albeit he will be born in a better situation in

his next birth. People who got enlightenment or who were practising

spirituality, were doing it as a full time job and not as a part

time. Whether their material needs were met or not, they left it to

God.

 

YEH TO GHAR HAI PREM KA, KHALA KA GHAR NAAHIN;

SHEESH KATA KE bhui DHARE SO PETHE UHI MAAHI.

 

(Sherji, Please provide English translation - Gita Talk Moderators)

 

JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Gita is meant for human beings only. There it is categorically

stated : " Ahankaar Vimudhatma kartahamiti manyate " Foolish Jeeva

under illusion of ego " assumes " that he is the doer. If one person

according to you earns livelihood and 10 persons feed on that, what

balance 9 persons have done ? Children, old parents, housewife, sick

and ailing family members? What do they do ? Hence it is not correct

to say that Nature provides basic needs to all creatures but not to

human beings !! What else Mother Nature does except " nurturing

life " ? Mother Nature has to make some as medium, and we feel we

are `Principal' and not `Agent'. That is fault at our end.

 

Ever heard the famous saying ? - DAANE DAANE PE LIKHA HAI, KHAANE

WALE KA NAAM ! ( On each and every food grain , the name of eater is

written). What does that mean? That means there is provision for

basic needs made, well in advance, so that you may survive, till the

time you are destined to survive ! What Satyuga or Kaliyuga is going

to do in that ?

 

As regards your last sentence : Again my answer is , No Sir ! Every

human being is a Sadhak. When the very birth is granted specifically

to you for Paramatma Realisation, how can you be anything less than

a Sadhak? Yogi – means equanimous. Can a human being not be so, if

he wants to ? If yes, how he can not be? You can only be Sadhu,

Sanyaasi, Yogi, Saint – ultimately ! What else you can be? Rest

whatever you try to be, will evaporate ! That you don't know that or

accept that or believe that is your fault. That is called Maya !!

That is Ego ! That needs to be cured !

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------

Hare Krishna,

I am sorry to tell you that you have totally misinterpreted GITA.

Even if you read Gita as a story book, you will find that Arjuna

didn't wanted to fight (It was his work & duty at that moment). But

it was Krishna who told him that he should fight. Gita has

undervalued the person who simply prays and does nothing. Please

read Gita once again, its my humble request.

Ashok Goenka

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Ashokji, kindly clarify the connection between your response and

the question being asked. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

 

 

There's something to be said by your statement. Those who are truly

ready to make the next leap in their life need to take radical steps

to achieve it. When one is ready to take the path of the Sadhu this

is the means they need to go about achieving it.

 

" Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down.

For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's

only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)

 

Ben

 

-------------------------------

Mr.Gee Waman,

1) Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food. So it is one's own cause to have a meal a day/ have

square meal a day/ excess food of choice/ suffer without food now

and then. Proofs are there in our histories. One Example: Sudhama

(Kuchela) was student with Sri krishna in Sandeep Ashram. He ate the

portion of food that was for Sri Krishna. Effect he was starving

later with his family. His suffering came to an end only when he

gave 2 handful of rice to Sri Krishna. There was another instance

were a vaisya deprives food to his servant for days causing death of

servant. The same Vaisya born as begger and dies for want of food.

Paramathuma has nothing to do with food; it is one's own Prarabdha

Karma. Even if food provided we see somebody sick unable to eat.

 

People in Africa die for want of food. Children are bony and die.

Water is scares. It is vice versa in other country. On earth the

places are there to suit one`s karma. What we do now matters next,

just like work today get paid after work. What one does this birth

gets paid next birth, for food, water, cloths, place of birth,

parents, environment etc. Child dies on birth dies. Some get

killed, Like the 7 children before sri Krishna to mother devaki was

killed by Kans. They were Rishies, did mistake and had to come to

earth. These Rishies requested Bagavan that they get only 1/2 days

to live on earth and back to Vaikunt. Each child Kans killed and the

soul was taken to Vaikunt by Naradh.

 

2) Plenty of food grows in one place and very little or nothing in

another place. This is Prakruthi Dharam designed by creator.

Paramathuma is only witness to the whole function. All deeds and

misdeeds are unmistakably by 10 elements starting from Sun, earth,

sky, fire Etc. Those days saints could get answer to their quarries

of the past from these 10 elements and answers were given. Like

Beeshma and Karna asked Sun God for his birth secret and they got

answers.

 

Sri Basudeb Sen thus said: Food and shelter comes only to whom

entitled. Like Swamy Ranganatha Goswami disciple of Sant Samartha

Ramadoss. Some disciples complained to sant that Ranganath is

enjoying costly cloths, very good food, and shelter with bedding in

forest provided by Marathi Charapathi Shivaji. Sant went there and

told Ranganathan to abandon and go elsewhere. So did ranganath with

just a piece of cloth. At a different location again the solders of

Shivaji took care of Ranganath in same manner. Sant commented to

his disciples that Ranganath is destined to use these comforts by

his Karma, failing which Ranganath has to be born again to use them.

But Ranganath was using them without any attachment in his mind. If

Guru said he abandoned. He never differentiated good food or poor

food, costly cloth or a piece of cloth (Ekka Cowgenam), comfort or

discomfort. His mind was stable. That is what we sadaks require to

have NO raga or Dwesha.

 

3)Spiritualism is grace of Bagavan given to one due his Karma done

by Bajan, Pooja, Namasankeethan Etc in the past. Every Karma has

cause and effect. To eat one has to take food by his hand to mouth

or some feed to. Work to earn money. Be miserly become beggar. Walk

to cover distance. But for Pooja/Bajan, What? You get grace of

being spiritualism. Many saints used caves/ big trees/ashrams as

shelter and food they grew from garden and milked cow, like sants

Vasista and Brihu. Food should not wait for man, hence beg for

food . Food has to be consumed by saying Govinda, Madahava, kesava

else act becomes like animals eating food. Food does not come

effortlessly, but effort put earlier. Similarly renunciation/

interest towards God/ getting Sat Sang/ Guru Etc are efforts of the

past Bagavan says In Geetha. Taking examples of Great men and trying

does not work to that extent, but gives effect later.

 

4) Ramana Rishi left home in distress and hid in a hole on

Thrivannamailai (Hills). 60 days without food and water survived.

This happens as one strictly surrenders to GOD abandoning food and

water. After removing him from hole, it took days to make him walk.

 

5) One focuses on impermanent things or not is by virtue of his

Karma. Like Sant Purander Doss focused on materialism unto 30 years

of his life and by grace of Bagavan`s vision his focus turned on

God. He was Naradh asked by Bagavan to spread HIS message on earth.

Naradh declined saying world is filled with Maya. Bagavan said HE

will rescue him. Declining (Cause) put in 30 years on Maya, later

accepting (Cause) turned him towards GOD. So for one to be in Maya

or Not is based on his Karmic deeds.

 

6) One leaves something behind after death not by his will, but

unavoidable. Paapa or Puniya has to be exhausted here before death

to get liberated. Puiniya are taking away from you by ways material

movable/immovable’s taken by relatives/friends after death. Paapas

are taken away from you by way of abuses you get from people around,

provided you disregard them. These are from Upanashids.

 

7) Common man is common. Rare are saints. Bagavan in Geetha said

that One Baktha in a crore of people is enough for HIM to make

heaven on earth, that too 50000 years.

 

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------

You are right.When Swami Vivekananda was on the rock in South India

he realized that no body can adopt any religious practice with empty

belly Then they started such projects try to see that every body

gets minimum requirements of life.They established Ramakrishna

Mission and stated hospitals and educational schools and colleges

Some wealthy people ought to come out for helping poor people.

Watch the activity of iSri Pramukh Swami of Swaminarayan Sanstha.

They also started such benevolent activities if religious activity

be promoted

This is what I think.

Truly yours

 

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

 

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

First, we need to understand what do we mean by " spirituality "

 

Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which govern

us all......

like we have Newton's laws of motion... we must follow them....if we

want to be happy, joyful, contented..., have the taste of

abundance,...

 

It is the other way around........

If we understand and follow these fundamental rules, we are

spiritual - degree can be different...

and then the basic needs and the whole world is automatically

assured.....

 

Trust and patience are needed to see how the rules that govern our

beings (spirituality) work for you....

Once we get the taste of it, such questions will never arise......

 

No conditions for practicing spirituality.......because conditions

means no spirituality....away from truth..

 

we all have seen people fasting voluntarily / Rishi leaving food or

other things for months...for that joy of being spiritual.......

 

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

 

Re: Spirituality, Meals and shelter

 

Living a spiritual life and ensuring meals and shelter are not

mutually exclusive options. We have known about many spiritual

leaders of the past who did not have to work/ find meals and sheter.

We would not have got Buddha if Siddarth was worried about food and

shelter. Sri Ramakrishna concentrated on thinking about God and

trying to establish relation with God: food and shelter came to him

without any effort. Those who use internet can be spiritual without

having to worry for food and shelter. There are many who have

assured food and shelter do not try to be spiritual. There are many

in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but food and

shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual. Aged people

often require very little food or very little sheter - many of them

let God to take care of their needs and God indeed does so. So,

there are various possibilities.

No one is forced to become spiritual: those who try to be spiritual

try on their own irrespective of whether they have assured food or

shelter. The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted

to God to take care of the needs. One who loves God and wants to

reach Him through spiritual discussions, does not care whether he

fails to live for want of food and shelter. When spiritual

tendencies come, people tend to forget about food and shelter. Many

Sanyasis had joined Ramakrisna Mission or the Order of the Church

not because they were assured of food and shelter. Those who are

really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet food and shelter

come to them without effort to get food and shelter.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-

 

I am not sure if this is not a provocative question.

 

Never the less my answer is this; look at some of the great spiritual

masters, the last thing they were concerned with was their creature

comforts.

 

The English founder of the Quakers, in and out of jail, sleeping

under hedges and eating turnips out of the fields.

 

Ramakrishna, coming from a poor family ended up hating money,

surrendered to what would be, just reading his story some years back,

I fell spiritually in love with him.

 

Many spiritual aspirants, forsake the comforts of life, and rely on

others good will for sustenance, they loose interest in worldly

things, as they become spiritually focust.

 

So if anything poverty may be a help if one is so focused.

 

From a practical point of view it would be interesting to read a

comment by Sophiaji on the subject. If you have read this question

Sophia.

 

To focus on the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

 

With Respect and Divine Love,

 

Mike Keenor

-------------------------Jai Hanuman

 

It is abundantly clear that provision for a person's basic needs is

the responsibility of Mother Nature and

In reply I quote verses from Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma:

 

DAADOO DUNIYA BAAWARI , FIKKAR KARE GELI ! ROTI DESHI RAAMJI ,

DOPAARA PELI !!

 

Says Saint Dadooji: The world has gone mad and insane that it worries

( for food etc). In fact before noon God (Raamji) will provide bread

to you !!

 

PRARABDHA PAHLE RACHA, PEECHE RACHA SHARIR ! TULSI CHINTA KYON KARE

BHAJLE SHRI RAGHUVEER !!

 

Says Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj: Destiny has been fixed before

creation of your body. (O Jeeva) Why are you worrying? Why don't you

start doing bhajan of God (Shri Raghuveer) ?

 

MUEN KO HARI DET HAI LAKDI, KAPADA, AAG ! JEEVATA NAR CHINTA KARE

BAAKA BADA ABHAAG !!

 

Says a Saint: Even to a dead person Hari (God) gives wood, fire and

cloth ! How unfortunate is that person who is living and is

worrying ( for basic needs) ?

 

You see, this human birth is given to you for realisation of God and

for that only. Now an essential thing which you have to do to

realise God is " to renounce " (TYAAG). Therefore, you always get

worldly things , throughout your life. Basic needs are air, water,

food, cloth and shelter. That every creature has got. It is not

therefore surprising that each and every human being invariably

leaves something of his own at the time of death. It may be a worn

out trouser or waist or a piece of stick or a penny or a cap , but

something definitely. You exhaust, the treasure of Mother Nature to

provide for your basic needs does not ! (PLEASE CLARIFY LAST

STATEMENT - GT MODERATORS)

 

Namaste Jee

 

Jee Jee

Shashikala

---------------------------

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

 

I was very happy to go through the valuable thoughts of Geeta

Sadhakas.

I feel that, the basic needs of every creature on this Planet Earth

are met, is true for all life forms other than humans, because Man is

not living on this Earth as Nature has intended. One may argue that,

in whatever way the Man is living, is also intended by Nature.

 

In this, so called, Kali Yuga, a stage has come, when somebody in the

family has to earn money to maintain the family, procure food,

clothing, shelter, medical help, education for children etc.

Otherwise the family has to perish.

 

It is the `Arthanjan Yoga` (Money Earning Efforts) which gets

priority over everything else. We should bear in our minds, that

every common man cannot be a saint, sadhu, sannyasi or yogi.

 

....Gee Waman

------------------------------

 

That is not true at all. In India we have the glorious tradition of

sadhus or holy men who have no home and no assurance of even one

meal a day but still live the spiritual life. All our great saints

followed this tradition and made our country the only one with

living saints. We are fortunate to have some true saints in India

even today to guide us spiritually.

 

Hari Shanker Deo

------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

No Sir !

 

Firstly: Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met.

Without providing for the same, one is not sent on earth by

Paramatma. From an ant to an elephant , irrespective of whether the

life span is one minute or say 150 years ( turtles/snakes) , before

birth sustenance is provided for. Before a child is born there is

milk in mom's person. Of course the quality and quantity thereof is

based on individual karmas.

 

In this kali yuga we see reports of child deaths due to

malnutrition/hunger. But then their life span was only that much and

their karmas of past births necessitated that. Still the law is that

either you get your basic needs met, or you are dead ! Hence so long

as you are alive or so long as you are destined to remain alive your

basic needs will be met by divine laws/systems. Hence malnutrition

deaths/ hunger deaths should not be given as counter argument. In

any case the question is regarding basic needs vis a vis practice

of spirituality for an adult.

 

Secondly: There is no corelation of your practicing spirituality and

your meeting the basic needs. Nor there is any confrontation/clash

between the two.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas NB

-----------------------------

The safest shelter is your body within which He is sitting in your

heart quietly. If He feels, He will arrange Himself. Only thing

that is required from you is total submission, I repeat submission

in totality, which is of course extremely difficult in life of

common people like us. That is why Thakur Sri Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansadev said " without food and shelter one cannot think of

God " . But at the same time we know that there are ample numbers of

sages (Mahapurush like Baba Loknath Bramhachari) who have lived

without food and drink for long long life. Among common people like

us I have read about one lady Saint Giri Bala living in Biur village

of Bankura district, West Bengal who could survive from 12 years of

age to 69 years of age without eating and drinking, by

practicing " Kriya Yoga " (Ref. " Autobiography of a Yogi " by

Paramhansa Yogananda. The non-eating state attained by Giri Bala

has been interpreted by him as " yogic power mentioned in Patanjali's

Yoga Sutras III-31. She used to employ a certain breathing exercise

that affects the Vishuddha Chakra, the fifth centre of subtle

energies located in the spine. The Vishuddha chakra, opposite the

throat, controls the fifth element, akash or ether, pervasive in the

intra-atomic spaces of the physical cells. Concentration on this

chakra ( " wheel " ) enables the devotee to live by etheric energy " .

Regards

 

BARIN CHATTERJEE

---

SUMMARY OF SADHAK MESSAGES

 

- provision for a person's basic needs is the responsibility of

Mother Nature

- Spirituality is the wisdom of life /set of rules/truth which

govern us all

- many in this world who do not worry about food and shelter but

food and shelter come to them whether or not they are spiritual.

- The test of spirituality lies in how far one has submitted to God

to take care of the needs.

- Those who are really spiritual do not need shelter or food yet

food and shelter come to them without effort

- Life of great spiritual masters, indicates the last thing they

were concerned with sustenance. Poverty may be a help. To focus on

the impermanent, is to get caught up in Maya.

- Basic needs of every creature in this universe are met

- it seems to be true for all life forms other than humans. humans

perish, if sustaining activities are not performed.

- Even sadhus that have no assurance of a meal a day still live a

spiritual life.

- No conditions for practicing spirituality. Conditions means away

from truth

- our existance is spiritual.

- Both minimum needs & spirituality are same

- Voluntary fasting for joy of it... therefore where is the question

first meeting basic needs.

- to realise God, " renunciation " is key(TYAAG).

- law is that either your basic needs are met, or you die!

- no corelation of practicing spirituality and meeting basic needs,

- Nor there is any confrontation/clash between the two

- total submission - many examples of life sustenance without basics

- One method - Kriya Yoga

- Mother Nature nutures / nourishes all of life, including human

life.

- Food can be deprived to one who wasted food/kicked food/took away

someone food.

- on surrendering to GOD all basic needs become his

responsibility.

- one has to be sure now to respect food, so that one's name is on

future food grain.

- spirituality has little connection with simple praying and doing

nothing. Spirituality is a state of mind (steadiness) that Krishna

is my every-thing, none else. I am by The Krishna, to The Krishna

and for The Krishna.

- I think that for spirituality to blossom one needs to penetrate

the physical, physiological, emotional and mental sheaths to reach

the state of bliss. This happens to a contemplative mind and all

that is extremely difficult if not impossible when ones life is a

daily struggle for existence.

- spirituality, it is a 'bhava' always. Self is never deficient.

- every human being is a sadhak. A water drop separated from ocean ,

must reach back to it's source (the ocean).

- Every human being must strive to become a yogi/sadhu/sanyaasi/saint

etc. THIS IN FACT IS THE REAL BASIC NEED OF A HUMAN BEING

 

 

------------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

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