Guest guest Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 || Shree Hari || Ram Ram II 2:21 II vedaavinashinam nityam, ya enam ajam avyayam katham sa purushah paartha, kum ghaatayati hanti kam " O Partha (Arjuna), how will the man who realizes this Atman to be imperishable, eternal, unborn, free from birth and decay, slay anyone, or cause anyone to be slain? " Comment: With any action by the body, there is no modification arising at all in the shariri (indweller of the body, Atman). Thus shariri (indweller of the body, Atman) does not become a doer, nor the enjoyer of any action, nor he becomes the promoter of any action. From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi pg. 32 by Swami Ramsukhdasji --------------------------- Chapter 2, Verse 21 is as follows; Veda = knows Avinaashinam = indestructible Nityam = eternal YaH = who Enam = this (the Self, the Aatman) Ajam = unborn Avyayam = immutable Katham = how SaH = He (that) PuruShaH = man Paartha = O Arjuna! Kam = whom Ghaatayati = causes to be slain Hanti = kills Kam = whom English translation:- He who knows that the Atman as indestructible, eternal, unborn and changeless, O Arjuna, how can he slay, or cause another to slay? Lord Krishna poses two basis questions to Arjuna, " When we know that the Self is invulnerable to any kind of modifications; then how can a person slay or cause any one to slay ? Having the knowledge of the Self to be indestructible, eternal, unborn and inexhaustible, then how can one arrogate to oneself the very ideas of doer-ship or agency? " The Aatman is actionless. A true knower of the Aatman is free from the sense of `Ahamkaara' i.e. the ego and therefore he is free from the feeling of any selfish motive or agency. His selfless actions without attachments do not lead him to any bondage. Please refer the verses 14 in chapter 4 of Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna argues, " My actions do not defile Me, as I have no yearning for their fruits. He who knows Me thus, is not bound by actions. The ignorant performs action for self-purification; whereas the wise performs action for the maintenance and benefit of mankind in this mortal world, while becoming selfless volunteer of the Supreme Being. " In short, the one who has such a clarity of thought and purpose will never have dejection or sorrow in facing the harsh realities of life. People having physical bodies enveloping the common denominator - the Aatman; go through the pangs of birth, growth and eventual death. Under the guidance of their mind and intellect they perform various good and / or bad actions. They benefit from selfless good actions, which are performed as per the scriptures without any expectations of favourable outcome from every action. As a corollary, they also suffer from selfish bad actions. In this turmoil, the Aatman remains unaltered, under all circumstances without a singular exception. In modern language, the Aatman is an inert element present in all things, all physical bodies and is found everywhere in the Universe. Like a catalyst in a chemical reaction, the Aatman does not cause any action; but without that enlivening principle, no action can take place. During the thirteen years in exile, Arjuna had no peaceful frame of mind and necessary time to study religious scriptures. Every day was a battle for survival. On the contrary, Lord Krishna studied in details all the Vedas and Upanishads and formulated the impeccable, immaculate theoretical basis for the eventual epic battle. Lord Krishna imparts the concentrate of the knowledge that he has perfected in those thirteen years to Arjuna without taking resort to any parables. Lord Krishna's message and advice are terse, direct and hard hitting the bull's eye. No unnecessary stories, just Eternal truths. No fiction, just Universal facts to motivate Arjuna and initiate righteous actions from him, like a modern slogan of " Just do it! " Arjuna, in his deluded state still continues to believe that he himself is going to kill his kith and kin and in addition, going to encourage others to kill them as well. Arjuna is not yet fully convinced of the thesis proposed by Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna is patient and willing to listen to anti-thesis, if any, form Arjuna and then offer him the synthesis. Thanks & Best Regards, Shrikant Joshi. =============================================================== OTHER SADHAKS Hari Om Dr Mohan ! What a great Q you have asked ! The very desire in you reflects first stage: outset of liberation process for Sadhak- SHUBHECCHA (auspicious desire) At the outset I would recommend you to read " Gita Gyaan Praveshika " book written by Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and published from Gita Press, Gorakhpur ! There you will find in detail how to sit, on what to sit, in which direction to sit, the sacred mantras which should be recited before starting Gita Paath, the slokas chronology, etc etc. Coming from Swamiji- they are ultimate advices ! In order to learn Gitaji by heart: 1 Every day read as a rule either 18 or 9 or 6 chapters. 2 The break ups of slokas (sandhi vicched) , meaning and bhava - first see/grasp them and then recite repeatedly. 3 Recite in loud voice the verses! 4 When you have learnt by heart, then don't see the book again. 5 Do reverse " paath " - say 20th , then 19th ... Slokas of say Chapter 15 ! 6 Think the meaning while reciting. Etc etc Important: While remembering/reading Gita - surrender to Gita. Use " belief " more than mind. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------ Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is great service to sadhakas! I appreciate it and thank you, Shrikantji, Moderators, and contributors. This is just to remind ourselves, again and again that Atman as is described, being eternal, indestructible, is what I am. We need to connect to this experiential Reality as my true nature- I AM THAT! I am sure Bhagwaan has said in some verses of Gita. As was used to happen to me in the past, reading about such attributes of attribute-less Atman, an image of Atman as something invisible inside the body which leaves the body upon death etc., was created and Being Atman myself, remained far away in experience. So, implicit in such statements Atman is what I am, may be made explicit and contemplated. In adverse situations this reminds us more often " oh, I am Atman, then who suffers.............? This helps me, so I share! Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt -------------------------------- Hari Bol. With reference to 2:18: In addition to physical combat, and more importantly in our day to day lives, the words " Fight, O Son of India, " means that it is a religious call to every Hindu to discard his defeatist mentality and face, whole-heartedly and sincerely, the situations, in every given field of life, at every given moment of this existence. Active resistance to evil is the Krishna-creed in the Gita. (from Swami Chinmayananda's commentary). Because the body is of a perishable nature and because the soul is of an eternal nature neither of the two can be just reason for regret. Therefore Bhagavan instructs Arjuna to bear with fortitude the unavoidable sharp contact of piercing arrows upon him and upon others and thus going to battle as a matter of duty, without the desire for any results, prepare his way for immortality. In terms of physical combat, Bhagavan is urging Arjuna to do his duty: to fight; yes, to engage in battle. Hindus should not shirk from our duty to fight if have to - to defend our country, our community, and our family. The revered Shri Mahatma Gandhi ji taught us the practical and beneficial use of Ahimsa but even Gandhi ji exhorted us to fight when it is absolutely necessary. Hari Om Krishna S. Narinedath ----------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Recitation of Bhagavad Gita in Shraddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji's voice is available free online. It is very plain, no melody as such, but something about Swamiji's voice / version, memorizing becomes Simply incomprehensible !!! Unexplainable !!! How that happens? It is at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm. It is at the bottom of the page; Click on one chapter at a time. Vyasji has relayed a very good method for memorizing that Swamiji used to prescribe to sadhaks. Ram Ram ------------------------------ Note: In response to Dr. Mohan's request for Bhagawad Geeta recitations, I recommend the set of four Audio CDs by Swami Sarvangananda from Ramakrishna Mission Saradapitha, Belur Math, West Begal. I use them in my daily recitations. I am confident that all Sadhakas will find Swamiji's recitations with accurate Sanskrit pronunciation and full of deep Shraddhaa Bhaava to be highly invigorating. Shrikant Joshi. ------------------------------ Dear Sir, I am YOGA student and I desire to learn BHAGWAT GEETA and also to memorise entire gita as a whole. In this regard, I need your assistance and guidance. Dr Mohan ----------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram ALL SADHAKS, If you are aware of good suggestions of Dr. Mohanji, please email us. Dr. Mohanji, we will compile and send responses in one posting. Ram Ram ------------------------------ || Shree Hari || Ram Ram All Sadhaks can and should contribute as well. Discussion / clarification is encouraged OTHER REQUESTS FROM SADHAKS - Please feel free to take the lead in any of these areas so that all sadhaks may benefit. - Introduction to Chapters (GT MODERATOR FROM SADHAK SANJIVANI) - Chapter Summary - Principles and Laws emanating from it.(N.B. VYAS) - Summary of Chapter from Sadhak Sanjivani " AS IS " - Yes, Epilogue / Important Facts in each verse good to bring out. - Any subtle thoughts / interpretation (MIKE) - In-depth explanation of " Om Tat Saditi Srimadbhagavadgitaasu, Upanishadsu..... " is a very good idea. (GT MODERATOR FROM SADHAK SANJIVANI) From Gita Talk Moderators Ram Ram ----------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram We deeply thank Shri Shrikantji Joshi for taking the initiative to support this divine work of daily one verse Bhagavad Gita explanation and Shri Madan Kauraji for the Gita Prabodhani translation Chapter 1 and 2 and to Mrs. K Asani for requesting shloka explanation on a daily basis. 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