Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Kindly respond without judging or expression of strong emotions. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. 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Guest guest Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram Please ignore the recent spam note. It was not from the moderators. We have now taken the necessary precautions. Ram Ram -------------------------------- i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Kindly respond without judging or expression of strong emotions. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram sharmilla -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Sharmilla, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. 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Guest guest Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Kindly respond without judging or expression of strong emotions. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/Mother Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmillaji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving Mother , Mother Prakrirt has made her a Mother ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a mother, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram sharmilla -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Sharmilla, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. 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Guest guest Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Kindly address Gita Shlokas that will be helpful to the sadhak, since the main focus of the group is deepening the understanding of Gitaji. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your wife on neighbour` s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Sharmillaji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawlessness will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a mother only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think sharmillaji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/Mother Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmillaji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving Mother , Mother Prakrirt has made her a Mother ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a mother, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram sharmilla -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Sharmilla, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. 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Guest guest Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Unless there is something significantly new / different expressed by sadhaks, this will be the last posting on this TOPIC. Therefore please do not respond. Sharmillaji has expressed that she has received the answers she was seeking. Based on feedback received from several sadhaks, there may be other groups that may deal better with worldly issues and that this group must remain focused on enhancing / deepening Gita learnings and Dharma and to help other sadhaks in their spiritual quest/journey. Your feedback will help us better assess the future direction is welcome. For the time being, those who post similar types of questions, MUST commit to reading the Gita, specifically the Shlokas that sadhaks refer to and thereafter respond with their understanding / their personal commitment. May we all understand and experience His Leela. (as indicated by a sadhak). Thank you all for the feedback. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin. chirag almoula ------------------------------ Dear Sadhika, GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused words. That is why people put -motherly love or brotherly love or divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man and woman, in fact it should not be termed as " love " , and its not accepted in any societies. Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist, and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well according to His Will. Dear Chetan, Anish and Sharmilla, Socrates became a great philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause of all the evils. Beware!!! And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee (purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will extinguish fire. Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or country. Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God. Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see how amazingly the true Love flows from within. with Love, A sadhika sadhna karigar -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yes ! Love is blind, Jee ! Says Holy Gita: As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta, so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire. (3:38) Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered with smoke. This is ideal time to get out. The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage. When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma) and his desire(love/lust) is intensified. Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish. Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy available. No doubt about the same. Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external restraint? There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till destruction ! Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom. Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the human when bitten by desires. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------- Dear Sarmila Sai Ram Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table, he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully. Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani --------------------------- Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment, greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society, accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India, some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age. So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money, jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it, they will carry the Karma. Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation. When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck. Kalidasan ------------------------------- Hare Krishna, There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such relationship (as written by other person except between mother and child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and because of that love, is a different story and then because if it hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that is a sin. For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition fees: is t a sin? In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!! Pranam! Sarvate, Dinesh G ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Sharmillaji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a mother only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think sharmillaji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/Mother Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmillaji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving Mother , Mother Prakrirt has made her a Mother ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a mother, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram sharmilla -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Sharmilla, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. No criticism of other sadhaks. Respect for all. No judging ! MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla ------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Feedback on Future Questions to be Addressed by Group - Beauty of Gitaji is to answer all questions by bringing back the spirituality in daily life. Why do we have to divide life into spiritual life, social life, family life etc etc? Why to break that Holistic approach which is the solution to our problems of such divisions? Also some apparent solutions may not be directly addressed in Gita but learned Sadhakas may have experienced in different ways, so what is wrong to help someone? Gitaji has all answers but to dig them out in proper context, and to make them applicable in a given situation is an art we are all learning. Pratap Bhatt For the time being, we will post similar types of questions, provided questioner (sadhak) commits to reading the Gita, and shares feedback from sadhak responses received. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Loving All: Pranams. There were couple-few in this responses who have pointed finger at Krishna, fine, if they want to compare themselves with Krishna, let's straighten few things:- Krishna, even as a human being, was such an elevated soul that before even entering his & #65007;mother & #65007;'s womb miracles were happening, is it true for you? - Krishna lived with Gopies-Gopas and all other men-women of Gokul only up to the age of 10 or 11 (not even teenage, someone can correct this), then is this love a physical attraction/sex/lust/passion or any such sort? - When in youth, women wanted to marry him and that was the custom/norm of that era to allow many wives so he fulfilled the desires of women (e.g., he came to rescue Rukmani who was asked to marry someone against her will). Please note, it is not his desire, he ran after fulfilling. - He liberated those 16000 women who said to him that we were abducted by this demon but the society will not accept us. People will always think of us as impure and say that these women have spent night at another man's house..., they will not accept us or give proper respect to us so please accept us. Krishna did...!!! He gave them love, respect and status in that society. - Krishna was constantly threatened to be killed and yet he did what was needed to be done for these women, man, friends, families of that society. Men-women like to portray Krishna's pure-selfless love as an excuse to their physical attraction/lust/passion/etc. Can one really compare themselves with Krishna, even as a human being? Can you even do an iota of what he did for that society? How he uplifted women? How he helped and supported his friends and family members? To what extend selflessness, kindness, egolessness, compassion, love flowed from him for the mankind? Think... think and think it over what are you saying and who are you doubting and with whom are you comparing yourself...??? humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet Manjula Patel ------------------------------ Life is to seek freedom from rebirth and rebirth is due to attachment and desire and the life should be lead with a mind to reduce the desire and attachment and anything towards detachment is good and that which increases attachment and desire is not good but when you do it you apy for it by pain associated with it. Sin is not like the one you find in Christian literature. So you are desire is to bind you more to carnal desire and hence lead you to utter despair. Freedom is to free one from habit and habit is formed due to attachment! So habit is formed and repeated habit leads to rebirth... a long answer but that is how it is! Ramayan R.S. ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram RAJUJI - Draupadi did not have five husbands. The five Pandavas were only One. Swamiji has explained in one of Vishesh pravachans. If someone can recollect the specifics please share to clarify Rajuji's statement. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------------------------------- RAM RAM! Respected sadhak/ sadhaka, Yes it is a sin being with a married man. unless he is a widower. for todays times. it is illegal in hindus. But circumstances in past marriage can be bad for the man as wife may have married him for money, power etc. and tensions can rise because of this or aduletury on any part. any way getting a divorce is difficult for todays law. In ancient times kings used to have many RANIS like dashratha, pandu, krishna bhagwan many rishis etc.. but that time was generally not kali yuga and dharmic laws were obliged by all. (Artha, dharma, kama, moksha) were the service goal of a wife and husband. In todays times generally men marry second or fall in affair for lust not love. (99%) cases. So law in kaliyuga has made second marriage difficult. a sin. in kaliyuga. anyway law have own faults as case specific laws are not flexible in India at present. Second marriage may be allowed for getting a son/ child if first doesnt have it(as per shastras) or death of a first wife ( for approvable reasons after social, police investigations). Yours truly, kalrav pande ------------------ Dear Sadak, chirag almoula says, " " Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin " " . Plants and animals also breath without knowledge of the creator. Does iy mean sin? Probably you mean that every thought that is not linked with God is a sin. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan --------------------- There is no sin in loving a married man - provided you love him like you love any other person, animal, being. We as humans, have right to love all - and only the person who can love all without discriminating between rich and poor, ugly and pretty, or any other perspective, is dear to GOD. So, love this married man like you love your servant, your colloeague, your seniors, your brother, or any one else. Forming relationship with a married man is not considered good because you are hurting his wife and spoiling his family life. This is certainly a sin. You would be chating on your family - which is again a sin. Anita Sharma -------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin. chirag almoula ------------------------------ Dear Sadhika, GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused words. That is why people put - & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love or brotherly love or divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man and woman, in fact it should not be termed as " love " , and its not accepted in any societies. Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist, and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well according to His Will. Dear Chetan, Anish and Sharmilla, Socrates became a great philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause of all the evils. Beware!!! And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee (purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will extinguish fire. Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or country. Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God. Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see how amazingly the true Love flows from within. with Love, A sadhika sadhna karigar -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yes ! Love is blind, Jee ! Says Holy Gita: As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta, so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire. (3:38) Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered with smoke. This is ideal time to get out. The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage. When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma) and his desire(love/lust) is intensified. Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish. Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy available. No doubt about the same. Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external restraint? There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till destruction ! Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom. Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the human when bitten by desires. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------- Dear Sarmila Sai Ram Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table, he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully. Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani --------------------------- Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment, greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society, accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India, some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age. So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money, jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it, they will carry the Karma. Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation. When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck. Kalidasan ------------------------------- Hare Krishna, There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such relationship (as written by other person except between & #65007;mother & #65007; and child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and because of that love, is a different story and then because if it hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that is a sin. For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition fees: is t a sin? In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!! Pranam! Sarvate, Dinesh G ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Sharmillaji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a & #65007;mother & #65007; only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think sharmillaji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/ & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmillaji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving & #65007;Mother & #65007; , & #65007;Mother & #65007; Prakrirt has made her a & #65007;Mother & #65007; ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a & #65007;mother & #65007;, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram sharmilla -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear Sharmilla, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a & #65007;mother & #65007;'s love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is & #65007;mother & #65007;. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many & #65007;mother & #65007;s young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. No criticism of other sadhaks. Respect for all. No judging ! MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards & #65007;sharmilla Follow-up Comments: & #65007;sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ------------------------ sita ram what about if that man is not happy with his wife , or a wife is not happy with their husband, then what ? and he/she found a friend, to share thoughts with, they smile when they see each other and feel peace of mind, they can share things that they never share with their husband /wife, everyone is looking for love, attention, affection, someone they feel comfortable with, they can laugh have fun, don't get me wrong i mean in a good way, what do you say about this situations? sita ram sharmilla ------------------------- NEW POSTING Spirituality is truth/laws/rules/wisdom principles of our lives..... knowingly or unknowingly we follow some and we don't follow others.... accordingly we face the results and then that is taken as destiny.... The fact is that we make our own destiny....all the time... So, it is very important to know these rules/wisdom principles of our lives and follow them... (nothing to do with any religion, although all religions have the same foundation in one way or the other as the truth is one. It can not vary from people to people or place to place or time to time....) Beauty is that once we understand these wisdom principles in depth, we change....transform.... There is nothing else to be done......It is so simple.... It is similar to know Newton's three laws of motion.... once we know these, we understand forever that it is in our interest to follow these... That is how we are able to go in space.......and return back too...... It is not achievable without knowing the basic laws.... Sushil Jain' ----------------------------- JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN. According to the Hindu religion the whole purpose of our existence on earth is to get self realization and to return to God from where we came. If however we get involved in the worldly matters, have attachment etc. we are already increasing our agony through the cycle of re-births and that also no one knows what will be our next yoni, etc. On top of that if one wants to be run by one's passions and attachments trying to find justification for our apparently wrong actions, then our sheel is destroyed, and who can save us in our future life/lives. Why put such a question in a religious forum while Hindu religion is replete with sufferings caused even by jutifiable moha, etc. May God bless you. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------------- Namaskar to All, Love is a Positive Energy. Vedanta says 'Hate no one is better than Love every one'. Also our 'Karma' is based on Intentions. Our social norms say: 'We should not harm anyone by our act in words, deeds and thoughts'. The indirect act of others about us can also be added to our Karma. Saint Meera loved 'Lord Krishna' and by Bhakti Yog, she could not reciprocate to husbands Worldly love. Saints love all being unattached and we being Worldly feel we are not loved enough. The blindness during love is Worldly and this bodily sensuous desire can be overcome by Intellect. GOD will feel pity that our costly intellect is not used and Karma will be marked accordingly. Even 'Quran' says others consent is required when marriage is solemnized. So It is a sin to win away a Married man from his wife ! Examples from our religious texts show as per Vedanta that humans are of five types. Animal (instinct) humans can't be Godly, which is highest state of Humans. -- Regards Swapan PURKAYASTHA ---------------------- Smt Manjula Patel has mentioned about Sri Krishna in Gita and mentions that Sri Krishna in Human form was desired by many women and also at the end married 16,000 women to give them liberation. This is a total misunderstanding of our Scriptures. 1. Sei Krishna was never in " Human " form in this avathara, unlike Sri Rama-avathara. Sri Krishna shows Himself as Divine and Super Human from the beginning, as a child, as a youth playing with Radha and other Gopikas - much older to Him. He was Divine till the End. 2. The details given are not in Srimad Bhagavad Gita but in Bhagavatham which is the Sri Vaishnavite Scripture explaining the entire Avathara. 3. In all the stories, Sri Krishna represents the form of Divine which is Purusha or Paramathma, and all Humans, men and women, are reoresented as Gopikas or Human female form of the Jivas which is Athma covered by the 5 layers of Upaadhis. The Jiva-athmas sole desire should be to remove all the clothings of upaadhis to liberate themselved for the ultimate surrender to the Paramatha as Sri Krishna = this is why in one story He asks the Gopikas to come out of the Pond of Ignorance without the clothings [naked - just by themselves without passion, greed, demands, or attachment, to reach Hind Divine Grace. This is one form of Kantha Bhava of Devotion - as a Hindu Philosophy. This should not confuse Miss Sharmila ji to justify that even Sri Krishna had multiple partners. Many Hindu God- Nabifestations are shown with Two wives in Divine forms - these represent Ichcha-Sakthi and Kriya Sakthi that will attach to Gnaaana Sakthi and not human. In the Human manifestation of Mahavishnu, therefore, as Sri Raama shows himself as only with one wife Seetha. So we must take this lesson. If one gets a desire towards a married man, they must stop it and forget it as a bad dream as sson as one realize the fact. Your own " GURU " or priest doing it does not justify to perform this Nishidhdha Karma or actions that are debarred by our Dharma. Thank you, Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Feedback on Future Questions to be Addressed by Group - Beauty of Gitaji is to answer all questions by bringing back the spirituality in daily life. Why do we have to divide life into spiritual life, social life, family life etc etc? Why to break that Holistic approach which is the solution to our problems of such divisions? Also some apparent solutions may not be directly addressed in Gita but learned Sadhakas may have experienced in different ways, so what is wrong to help someone? Gitaji has all answers but to dig them out in proper context, and to make them applicable in a given situation is an art we are all learning. Pratap Bhatt For the time being, we will post similar types of questions, provided questioner (sadhak) commits to reading the Gita, and shares feedback from sadhak responses received. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Loving All: Pranams. There were couple-few in this responses who have pointed finger at Krishna, fine, if they want to compare themselves with Krishna, let's straighten few things:- Krishna, even as a human being, was such an elevated soul that before even entering his & #65007;mother & #65007;'s womb miracles were happening, is it true for you? - Krishna lived with Gopies-Gopas and all other men-women of Gokul only up to the age of 10 or 11 (not even teenage, someone can correct this), then is this love a physical attraction/sex/lust/passion or any such sort? - When in youth, women wanted to marry him and that was the custom/norm of that era to allow many wives so he fulfilled the desires of women (e.g., he came to rescue Rukmani who was asked to marry someone against her will). Please note, it is not his desire, he ran after fulfilling. - He liberated those 16000 women who said to him that we were abducted by this demon but the society will not accept us. People will always think of us as impure and say that these women have spent night at another man's house..., they will not accept us or give proper respect to us so please accept us. Krishna did...!!! He gave them love, respect and status in that society. - Krishna was constantly threatened to be killed and yet he did what was needed to be done for these women, man, friends, families of that society. Men-women like to portray Krishna's pure-selfless love as an excuse to their physical attraction/lust/passion/etc. Can one really compare themselves with Krishna, even as a human being? Can you even do an iota of what he did for that society? How he uplifted women? How he helped and supported his friends and family members? To what extend selflessness, kindness, egolessness, compassion, love flowed from him for the mankind? Think... think and think it over what are you saying and who are you doubting and with whom are you comparing yourself...??? humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet Manjula Patel ------------------------------ Life is to seek freedom from rebirth and rebirth is due to attachment and desire and the life should be lead with a mind to reduce the desire and attachment and anything towards detachment is good and that which increases attachment and desire is not good but when you do it you apy for it by pain associated with it. Sin is not like the one you find in Christian literature. So you are desire is to bind you more to carnal desire and hence lead you to utter despair. Freedom is to free one from habit and habit is formed due to attachment! So habit is formed and repeated habit leads to rebirth... a long answer but that is how it is! Ramayan R.S. ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram RAJUJI - Draupadi did not have five husbands. The five Pandavas were only One. Swamiji has explained in one of Vishesh pravachans. If someone can recollect the specifics please share to clarify Rajuji's statement. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------------------------------- RAM RAM! Respected sadhak/ sadhaka, Yes it is a sin being with a married man. unless he is a widower. for todays times. it is illegal in hindus. But circumstances in past marriage can be bad for the man as wife may have married him for money, power etc. and tensions can rise because of this or aduletury on any part. any way getting a divorce is difficult for todays law. In ancient times kings used to have many RANIS like dashratha, pandu, krishna bhagwan many rishis etc.. but that time was generally not kali yuga and dharmic laws were obliged by all. (Artha, dharma, kama, moksha) were the service goal of a wife and husband. In todays times generally men marry second or fall in affair for lust not love. (99%) cases. So law in kaliyuga has made second marriage difficult. a sin. in kaliyuga. anyway law have own faults as case specific laws are not flexible in India at present. Second marriage may be allowed for getting a son/ child if first doesnt have it(as per shastras) or death of a first wife ( for approvable reasons after social, police investigations). Yours truly, kalrav pande ------------------ Dear Sadak, chirag almoula says, " " Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin " " . Plants and animals also breath without knowledge of the creator. Does iy mean sin? Probably you mean that every thought that is not linked with God is a sin. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan --------------------- There is no sin in loving a married man - provided you love him like you love any other person, animal, being. We as humans, have right to love all - and only the person who can love all without discriminating between rich and poor, ugly and pretty, or any other perspective, is dear to GOD. So, love this married man like you love your servant, your colloeague, your seniors, your brother, or any one else. Forming relationship with a married man is not considered good because you are hurting his wife and spoiling his family life. This is certainly a sin. You would be chating on your family - which is again a sin. Anita Sharma -------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin. chirag almoula ------------------------------ Dear Sadhika, GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused words. That is why people put - & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love or brotherly love or divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man and woman, in fact it should not be termed as " love " , and its not accepted in any societies. Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist, and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well according to His Will. Dear Chetan, Anish and & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, Socrates became a great philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause of all the evils. Beware!!! And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee (purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will extinguish fire. Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or country. Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God. Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see how amazingly the true Love flows from within. with Love, A sadhika sadhna karigar -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yes ! Love is blind, Jee ! Says Holy Gita: As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta, so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire. (3:38) Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered with smoke. This is ideal time to get out. The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage. When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma) and his desire(love/lust) is intensified. Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish. Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy available. No doubt about the same. Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external restraint? There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till destruction ! Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom. Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the human when bitten by desires. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------- Dear Sarmila Sai Ram Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table, he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully. Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani --------------------------- Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment, greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society, accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India, some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age. So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money, jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it, they will carry the Karma. Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation. When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck. Kalidasan ------------------------------- Hare Krishna, There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such relationship (as written by other person except between & #65007;mother & #65007; and child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and because of that love, is a different story and then because if it hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that is a sin. For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition fees: is t a sin? In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!! Pranam! Sarvate, Dinesh G ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a & #65007;mother & #65007; only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think & #65007;sharmilla & #65007;ji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/ & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving & #65007;Mother & #65007; , & #65007;Mother & #65007; Prakrirt has made her a & #65007;Mother & #65007; ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a & #65007;mother & #65007;, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram & #65007;sharmilla & #65007; -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a & #65007;mother & #65007;'s love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is & #65007;mother & #65007;. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many & #65007;mother & #65007;s young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. No criticism of other sadhaks. Respect for all. No judging ! MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 ------------------------ FOLLOW UP (ORIGINAL QUESTION AT END OF STRING) sita ram what about if that man is not happy with his wife , or a wife is not happy with their husband, then what ? and he/she found a friend, to share thoughts with, they smile when they see each other and feel peace of mind, they can share things that they never share with their husband /wife, everyone is looking for love, attention, affection, someone they feel comfortable with, they can laugh have fun, don't get me wrong i mean in a good way, what do you say about this situations? sita ram sharmilla ------------------------- NEW POSTING -Shree Hari- Oh Sharmilla! Wake up wipe the sleep from your eyes look around you. Regarding your quote, 'they can share things that they never share with their husband /wife, everyone is looking for love, attention, > affection, someone they feel comfortable with, they can laugh have fun, don't get me wrong i mean in a good way, what do you say about this situations?' Go to the thread 'Dependence' 28 Feb. have a good read, a lot of insightful points raised by Sadhaks, some are right on the button w.r.t. your question quoted above. Next to GOD my wife knows me best of all. The swinging priest and his sugar baby wife belongs between the covers of one those trashy magazines one can buy at the checkout of a supermarket! With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor). ---------------------------- In Shri Gitaji Bhagwan Krishn says that do all actions and offer them to me, i.e. do them in my service and leave the result to me. The questions that 'is it a sin to love a married man' or the case of the priest who is having an affair and his wife is also having an affair, are quite irrelevant to the Hindu religion and the Gitaji. Sharmilaji is your or the priest and priestess love is for God or for your own worldly passions. Can you or the priests and priestess say that their love is in service of God, like Mira. If not then all of such people are very much drowned in the worldliness and not Godliness. Many people in the world are in the same situation and acting in the same way, especially these days - but that does not mean that such actions are conducive to spiritual progress or taking you any nearer the God or that there will be no retribution. To put it briefly, apne sir per kafan baandh lo, aur jo bhi karna chaho karo, yani man maani karo. (i.e put a coffin on your head and do as you please). Moreover all sins take their own time in ripening as also the good deeds of self-denial, etc.take their time in bringing fruits, sometimes as long as many births before one can see their ripening/fruition. And until that time one thinks that he or she will not be affected by a worldly and forbidden action. May God bless you all with sadbuddhi. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------ Loving Divine, Pranam. humble request to Bala N. Aiyerji and all who might have misunderstood my original response... please read my response again and again because your message claims things that I have not said. You have misunderstood, completely missed the point. Please re-read. The email was addressing that even if you don't believe Krishna as a Divine being/God/Paramatma and treat him as a normal human being, still you can't compare his love with the love discussed in response to Sharmilaji's question so stop using that as an excuse. Hope my original response was not that misleading...!!! humble regards, always at Thy Loving Feet Manjula Patel ---------------------------- There is shloke in Gita that says those who are always engaged in Me I give them Budhi yoga (Intelligent) and through Budhi yoga they attain Me. Bg. 10.10 Naran H ------------------------ Jai Ram Ji Ki! I question the moderator if posting like Sharmila's is right for this kind of audience. This site is not for social basic moral issues but to understand the message of Gita. Sure, one can argue that all moral questions should have answer in Gita, but I do not think this is a forum to discuss general moral and social questions. This is a site for sadhaks not for general curious postings. Sudhir ----------------------- Shri Krishnah sharanam mama. Dear Moderatorji, There are hundreds of Groups, magazines and other fora that discuss sex, extra marital relations, personal tragedies, and so on, which are totally `maayik' or `laukik' (worldly and of illusionary nature) and relate to this illusionary world. Many of the film stars, psychiatrists, regular columnists in weekly papers or magazines, doctors etc. provide their views or `solutions' to such `problems' of the readers. My impression of this august Forum has been that it is like a divine platform where points of intellectual and totally spiritual nature of a high level are discussed and the views/explanations of the learned sadhaks are exchanged. The whole purport of Gita (and possibly this Group) is to find ways to try to renunciate worldly desires, attachments etc. and transcend to a higher spiritual level to be able to attain bliss and super-conciousness. While some of the worldly topics being posed before the Forum may be relevant to many of us, I strongly feel that this Forum is not the right one to engage itself in such issues, there being many other forums to discuss those types of matters. It is expected that the Sadhaks who are discussing several vital spiritual issues have risen to the next level where they are thinking essentially of God and bliss, and are still not entangled in relations/affairs/sensual pleasures or problems related to them. While appreciating the genuine problems and dilemma that some of the Sadhaks might be feeling in their worldly/materialistic lives, and thanking them for sharing these, my humble submission to the Moderator is that we accept to leave such topics to other forums elsewhere and maintain the level of this Forum as high as it is to discuss only spiritual issues, for which there are no good intellectual forums available like this one. I for one, find this Forum highly enlightening, educating and transcendental (and that meditational feeling gets interrupted with questions totally misplaced for this Forum). I have no intention of hurting anyone's feelings and you are the best judge. Regards, KN Sharma ------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Spirituality is truth/laws/rules/wisdom principles of our lives..... knowingly or unknowingly we follow some and we don't follow others.... accordingly we face the results and then that is taken as destiny.... The fact is that we make our own destiny....all the time... So, it is very important to know these rules/wisdom principles of our lives and follow them... (nothing to do with any religion, although all religions have the same foundation in one way or the other as the truth is one. It can not vary from people to people or place to place or time to time....) Beauty is that once we understand these wisdom principles in depth, we change....transform.... There is nothing else to be done......It is so simple.... It is similar to know Newton's three laws of motion.... once we know these, we understand forever that it is in our interest to follow these... That is how we are able to go in space.......and return back too...... It is not achievable without knowing the basic laws.... Sushil Jain' ----------------------------- JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN. According to the Hindu religion the whole purpose of our existence on earth is to get self realization and to return to God from where we came. If however we get involved in the worldly matters, have attachment etc. we are already increasing our agony through the cycle of re-births and that also no one knows what will be our next yoni, etc. On top of that if one wants to be run by one's passions and attachments trying to find justification for our apparently wrong actions, then our sheel is destroyed, and who can save us in our future life/lives. Why put such a question in a religious forum while Hindu religion is replete with sufferings caused even by jutifiable moha, etc. May God bless you. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------------- Namaskar to All, Love is a Positive Energy. Vedanta says 'Hate no one is better than Love every one'. Also our 'Karma' is based on Intentions. Our social norms say: 'We should not harm anyone by our act in words, deeds and thoughts'. The indirect act of others about us can also be added to our Karma. Saint Meera loved 'Lord Krishna' and by Bhakti Yog, she could not reciprocate to husbands Worldly love. Saints love all being unattached and we being Worldly feel we are not loved enough. The blindness during love is Worldly and this bodily sensuous desire can be overcome by Intellect. GOD will feel pity that our costly intellect is not used and Karma will be marked accordingly. Even 'Quran' says others consent is required when marriage is solemnized. So It is a sin to win away a Married man from his wife ! Examples from our religious texts show as per Vedanta that humans are of five types. Animal (instinct) humans can't be Godly, which is highest state of Humans. -- Regards Swapan PURKAYASTHA ---------------------- Smt Manjula Patel has mentioned about Sri Krishna in Gita and mentions that Sri Krishna in Human form was desired by many women and also at the end married 16,000 women to give them liberation. This is a total misunderstanding of our Scriptures. 1. Sei Krishna was never in " Human " form in this avathara, unlike Sri Rama-avathara. Sri Krishna shows Himself as Divine and Super Human from the beginning, as a child, as a youth playing with Radha and other Gopikas - much older to Him. He was Divine till the End. 2. The details given are not in Srimad Bhagavad Gita but in Bhagavatham which is the Sri Vaishnavite Scripture explaining the entire Avathara. 3. In all the stories, Sri Krishna represents the form of Divine which is Purusha or Paramathma, and all Humans, men and women, are reoresented as Gopikas or Human female form of the Jivas which is Athma covered by the 5 layers of Upaadhis. The Jiva-athmas sole desire should be to remove all the clothings of upaadhis to liberate themselved for the ultimate surrender to the Paramatha as Sri Krishna = this is why in one story He asks the Gopikas to come out of the Pond of Ignorance without the clothings [naked - just by themselves without passion, greed, demands, or attachment, to reach Hind Divine Grace. This is one form of Kantha Bhava of Devotion - as a Hindu Philosophy. This should not confuse Miss Sharmila ji to justify that even Sri Krishna had multiple partners. Many Hindu God- Nabifestations are shown with Two wives in Divine forms - these represent Ichcha-Sakthi and Kriya Sakthi that will attach to Gnaaana Sakthi and not human. In the Human manifestation of Mahavishnu, therefore, as Sri Raama shows himself as only with one wife Seetha. So we must take this lesson. If one gets a desire towards a married man, they must stop it and forget it as a bad dream as sson as one realize the fact. Your own " GURU " or priest doing it does not justify to perform this Nishidhdha Karma or actions that are debarred by our Dharma. Thank you, Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Feedback on Future Questions to be Addressed by Group - Beauty of Gitaji is to answer all questions by bringing back the spirituality in daily life. Why do we have to divide life into spiritual life, social life, family life etc etc? Why to break that Holistic approach which is the solution to our problems of such divisions? Also some apparent solutions may not be directly addressed in Gita but learned Sadhakas may have experienced in different ways, so what is wrong to help someone? Gitaji has all answers but to dig them out in proper context, and to make them applicable in a given situation is an art we are all learning. Pratap Bhatt For the time being, we will post similar types of questions, provided questioner (sadhak) commits to reading the Gita, and shares feedback from sadhak responses received. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Loving All: Pranams. There were couple-few in this responses who have pointed finger at Krishna, fine, if they want to compare themselves with Krishna, let's straighten few things:- Krishna, even as a human being, was such an elevated soul that before even entering his & #65007;mother & #65007;'s womb miracles were happening, is it true for you? - Krishna lived with Gopies-Gopas and all other men-women of Gokul only up to the age of 10 or 11 (not even teenage, someone can correct this), then is this love a physical attraction/sex/lust/passion or any such sort? - When in youth, women wanted to marry him and that was the custom/norm of that era to allow many wives so he fulfilled the desires of women (e.g., he came to rescue Rukmani who was asked to marry someone against her will). Please note, it is not his desire, he ran after fulfilling. - He liberated those 16000 women who said to him that we were abducted by this demon but the society will not accept us. People will always think of us as impure and say that these women have spent night at another man's house..., they will not accept us or give proper respect to us so please accept us. Krishna did...!!! He gave them love, respect and status in that society. - Krishna was constantly threatened to be killed and yet he did what was needed to be done for these women, man, friends, families of that society. Men-women like to portray Krishna's pure-selfless love as an excuse to their physical attraction/lust/passion/etc. Can one really compare themselves with Krishna, even as a human being? Can you even do an iota of what he did for that society? How he uplifted women? How he helped and supported his friends and family members? To what extend selflessness, kindness, egolessness, compassion, love flowed from him for the mankind? Think... think and think it over what are you saying and who are you doubting and with whom are you comparing yourself...??? humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet Manjula Patel ------------------------------ Life is to seek freedom from rebirth and rebirth is due to attachment and desire and the life should be lead with a mind to reduce the desire and attachment and anything towards detachment is good and that which increases attachment and desire is not good but when you do it you apy for it by pain associated with it. Sin is not like the one you find in Christian literature. So you are desire is to bind you more to carnal desire and hence lead you to utter despair. Freedom is to free one from habit and habit is formed due to attachment! So habit is formed and repeated habit leads to rebirth... a long answer but that is how it is! Ramayan R.S. ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram RAJUJI - Draupadi did not have five husbands. The five Pandavas were only One. Swamiji has explained in one of Vishesh pravachans. If someone can recollect the specifics please share to clarify Rajuji's statement. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------------------------------- RAM RAM! Respected sadhak/ sadhaka, Yes it is a sin being with a married man. unless he is a widower. for todays times. it is illegal in hindus. But circumstances in past marriage can be bad for the man as wife may have married him for money, power etc. and tensions can rise because of this or aduletury on any part. any way getting a divorce is difficult for todays law. In ancient times kings used to have many RANIS like dashratha, pandu, krishna bhagwan many rishis etc.. but that time was generally not kali yuga and dharmic laws were obliged by all. (Artha, dharma, kama, moksha) were the service goal of a wife and husband. In todays times generally men marry second or fall in affair for lust not love. (99%) cases. So law in kaliyuga has made second marriage difficult. a sin. in kaliyuga. anyway law have own faults as case specific laws are not flexible in India at present. Second marriage may be allowed for getting a son/ child if first doesnt have it(as per shastras) or death of a first wife ( for approvable reasons after social, police investigations). Yours truly, kalrav pande ------------------ Dear Sadak, chirag almoula says, " " Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin " " . Plants and animals also breath without knowledge of the creator. Does iy mean sin? Probably you mean that every thought that is not linked with God is a sin. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan --------------------- There is no sin in loving a married man - provided you love him like you love any other person, animal, being. We as humans, have right to love all - and only the person who can love all without discriminating between rich and poor, ugly and pretty, or any other perspective, is dear to GOD. So, love this married man like you love your servant, your colloeague, your seniors, your brother, or any one else. Forming relationship with a married man is not considered good because you are hurting his wife and spoiling his family life. This is certainly a sin. You would be chating on your family - which is again a sin. Anita Sharma -------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin. chirag almoula ------------------------------ Dear Sadhika, GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused words. That is why people put - & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love or brotherly love or divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man and woman, in fact it should not be termed as " love " , and its not accepted in any societies. Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist, and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well according to His Will. Dear Chetan, Anish and & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, Socrates became a great philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause of all the evils. Beware!!! And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee (purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will extinguish fire. Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or country. Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God. Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see how amazingly the true Love flows from within. with Love, A sadhika sadhna karigar -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yes ! Love is blind, Jee ! Says Holy Gita: As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta, so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire. (3:38) Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered with smoke. This is ideal time to get out. The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage. When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma) and his desire(love/lust) is intensified. Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish. Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy available. No doubt about the same. Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external restraint? There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till destruction ! Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom. Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the human when bitten by desires. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------- Dear Sarmila Sai Ram Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table, he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully. Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani --------------------------- Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment, greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society, accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India, some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age. So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money, jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it, they will carry the Karma. Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation. When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck. Kalidasan ------------------------------- Hare Krishna, There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such relationship (as written by other person except between & #65007;mother & #65007; and child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and because of that love, is a different story and then because if it hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that is a sin. For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition fees: is t a sin? In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!! Pranam! Sarvate, Dinesh G ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a & #65007;mother & #65007; only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think & #65007;sharmilla & #65007;ji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/ & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving & #65007;Mother & #65007; , & #65007;Mother & #65007; Prakrirt has made her a & #65007;Mother & #65007; ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a & #65007;mother & #65007;, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram & #65007;sharmilla & #65007; -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a & #65007;mother & #65007;'s love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is & #65007;mother & #65007;. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many & #65007;mother & #65007;s young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy -------------------------- i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla Follow-up Comments: sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. No criticism of other sadhaks. Respect for all. No judging ! MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram THIS TOPIC IS SOON TO BE CLOSED ! PLEASE POST FINAL MESSAGE ONLY if something is absolutely critical or essential that has not been already shared. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------ FOLLOW UP (ORIGINAL QUESTION AT END OF STRING) sita ram what about if that man is not happy with his wife , or a wife is not happy with their husband, then what ? and he/she found a friend, to share thoughts with, they smile when they see each other and feel peace of mind, they can share things that they never share with their husband /wife, everyone is looking for love, attention, affection, someone they feel comfortable with, they can laugh have fun, don't get me wrong i mean in a good way, what do you say about this situations? sita ram sharmilla ------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om The questioner does not appear at all to be serious and is funning around with various permutation combination questions and hence it is better to close the Q rather than unnecessarily being party to an aimless exercise. Where is the seriousness ? As regards the format of this Divine Forum, I feel personal problems should be allowed to be raised. Ultimately every religion must take practical shape. The experience of all of us will then only benefit the world at large. On that count I am in agreement with Pratapji. But the Qs relating with physical / illicit relationships, politics, hunger, poverty, diseases etc ; particularly without commitment sought by Moderators for reading Holy Gitaji may not be permitted. Of course there has to be a line drawn. Qs as that of Sureshji Sharma or Sophiaji brought the best out of this Forum. Such Qs must be allowed to be raised. I feel all sadhaks should give their views , particularly veterans like Madanji Kaura , Rajaji, Sathyanarainji, S S Bhattji , Brother Mike , Manjulaji , Mira Dassji Sadhanaji etc and based on the same a view be taken by Moderators. Certainly we all want this Forum to be truly world class and to be truly at the service of humanity at large. I wonder if such quality and talent is there at any other place across the globe. This is SATSANGA of very high order and we have witnessed divinity flowing often from the responses. All grace of Paramatma and Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj is there with this site and we all are duty bound to ensure maintenance of its standard. It must be understood that by whatever means we can contribute cessation of sorrow from an individual mind, that in itself is 'sadhana'. But we must ensure hygiene. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ---------------------------- Looks like you have the cake and want to eat it too!! In other words, you desire to get into all kinds of relationships with other men....and not get caught in sins too!!! Easy way out is...enjoy the fun and dont look deep in to morality and ethics. Even if you are saying in good way...you are just creating a facade for your relationships....There are many things i would like to share.....with u sharmila.....but i would like to wait for your response... regards MI Nagarajan -------------------------------- My dandavat pranams to all in this forum..... I would like to address a post by KN Sharma, wherein the concerns are raised that perhaps questions pertaining to marital life/what to do about failing relationships, etc. might be inappropriate for this forum. I would like to say, please consider that perhaps those bringing their frustrations to the table are asking for the highest guidance, by bringing their concerns to a disucssion centered around the scripture. Truly, those who have tried to come to gita talk group, are not they, and myself, wanting to be guided by what the Supreme Lord would expect of us? The difficulty is, most of us are not prepared to even suggest the hightest standard, if it is not in keeping with the " mood of the times " . Specifically, I would like to say, though I am not judging anyone, or even saying that it can always be followed, but once married, the highest standard for a woman or a man, is to accept their partner for life. Even I have heard one story, from a godsister, who told how a young lady had been betrothed, and then her would be husband passed away. This girl did not ever marry again, but lived within one math in India. (she was only 12 when her would-be bridegroom passed) The story as it was told to me indicated that the girl was of exceptional devotion, and in her presence, one could definitely perceive a person of very, very great shakti. If anyone of us can remember that this life is not for our own enjoyment, but for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, of Sri Sri Radha and Krishna, then we will be able to follow the highest standard. It is because we are all constantly forgetting that we are not the enjoyers, and that our own existence is meant for the service of the Lord, that we cannot tolerate our partners, or other situations that require great endurance. Yes, my husband and I have been tested time and time again to " walk the walk " .....not just talk the talk. We have been together for 29 years, not all of those years physically together, we separated on two occasions, once for a year and a half, and again for 4 months...... during the first separation, my husband did have a girl friend. She was not a healthy associate....my husband's drug habit was intensified in her association, and he also started drinking alcohol. But when people would ask me, if we were together, or if we were getting divorced, I would answer, " I am always with my husband, maybe not physically, but he is always with me in my heart. " He eventually came back to his senses somewhat.....but addictions are difficult to break. I pray constantly for the strength to remember the highest standard, that my spritual master would want, and it is only for this reason that I speak of anything of my life, to look at what I have said, and pray for the awareness to think carefully about all decisions I make. Day by day, we are getting older, and as much as we can put our focus to sravanam, kirtanam, visnoh smaranam, (hearing, chanting, and remembering the pastimes fo the Lord) that much we can be assured that our hearts will bnecome light, joyful, and free form sin. Looking for a new partner, or even accepting one that may come unsought, does not give the same sense of strength as finding the Lord to be our eternal friend, partner, and companion. I humbly beg, those of nearness to the Lord, kindly pray on my behalf, and on behalf of my husband, Ramachandra dasa, that we may be blessed to rise above so many inebrieties of the age of Kali, and one day enter into the loving service of the Lord. Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi ------------------------------ JAISITARARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN, As several other members have pointed out this forum is not for such questions involving passions, unhappiness and trying to find justification for our worldly desires through Shri Gitaji. The whole world is suffering for one reason or the other and that's what this illusionary sansar is and which keeps us remembering God's name and our effot to find answers through Gitaji for our honest efforts to attain God. It would be appreciated if a stop is put to the current question without any further comments, etc. No doubt Bhagwan Krishn has advised Bhakti yog, which is the easiest, so long as one can bhaj/repeat God's name with full devotion and trust for our spiritual progress, which is the ultimate aim of our existence as human being. Jai Sitaramjiki, Jai Radhakrishnjiki, Jai Veer Hanuman. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------- Dear Sai Sister Sharmila Fare enough however one should make sure that the children are not affected as it is very dangerous when children suffer psychologically. The mental and physical torture will affect their whole life as parents often take their frustration out on children. Once they have had children with their own wish, than they should both suffer together no matter what for the sake of children. Men can have as many relatioships as they want because if they are not happy with the relationship than they will take their business somewhere else. Men dont have attachment with thier children as we see how many men just walk out leaving their wives to suffer with children.. But for women is it very dangerous as what is the guarantee whether the second relationship will work? Than what happens to children?.......... When people are in love and not married, both parties play a huge drama of being " Laila and Majnu " as they don't know each others habits and nature. Once they get married and start living together, than the whole thing comes out and the clashes begins........How many men in real life wants to look after other men's children if a woman will have second relationship. In Western countries often children are raped by the boy friends and step fathers. Than the innocent children will end up in Children's Homes or are taken into care by the Social services and are moved from home to home and with different foster parents. In many occasions the children are again raped by the foster fathers. Large percentage of these children end up on streets and go into prostitution and drugs at very early age. So in short if two adults decides to get married and have children, than for the sake of the children they should sacrifice their lives for their children because both parents are responsible for bringing these children the world and should be given first priority. IF BOTH MEN AND WOMEN ARE SINGLE AND DONT HAVE CHILDREN, THAN OFCOURSE THEY SHOULD FIND OTHER RELATIONSHIP WHERE THEY GET LOVE AND AFFECTION.......... Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani ------------------------- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari- Oh Sharmilla! Wake up wipe the sleep from your eyes look around you. Regarding your quote, 'they can share things that they never share with their husband /wife, everyone is looking for love, attention, > affection, someone they feel comfortable with, they can laugh have fun, don't get me wrong i mean in a good way, what do you say about this situations?' Go to the thread 'Dependence' 28 Feb. have a good read, a lot of insightful points raised by Sadhaks, some are right on the button w.r.t. your question quoted above. Next to GOD my wife knows me best of all. The swinging priest and his sugar baby wife belongs between the covers of one those trashy magazines one can buy at the checkout of a supermarket! With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor). ---------------------------- In Shri Gitaji Bhagwan Krishn says that do all actions and offer them to me, i.e. do them in my service and leave the result to me. The questions that 'is it a sin to love a married man' or the case of the priest who is having an affair and his wife is also having an affair, are quite irrelevant to the Hindu religion and the Gitaji. Sharmilaji is your or the priest and priestess love is for God or for your own worldly passions. Can you or the priests and priestess say that their love is in service of God, like Mira. If not then all of such people are very much drowned in the worldliness and not Godliness. Many people in the world are in the same situation and acting in the same way, especially these days - but that does not mean that such actions are conducive to spiritual progress or taking you any nearer the God or that there will be no retribution. To put it briefly, apne sir per kafan baandh lo, aur jo bhi karna chaho karo, yani man maani karo. (i.e put a coffin on your head and do as you please). Moreover all sins take their own time in ripening as also the good deeds of self-denial, etc.take their time in bringing fruits, sometimes as long as many births before one can see their ripening/fruition. And until that time one thinks that he or she will not be affected by a worldly and forbidden action. May God bless you all with sadbuddhi. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------ Loving Divine, Pranam. humble request to Bala N. Aiyerji and all who might have misunderstood my original response... please read my response again and again because your message claims things that I have not said. You have misunderstood, completely missed the point. Please re-read. The email was addressing that even if you don't believe Krishna as a Divine being/God/Paramatma and treat him as a normal human being, still you can't compare his love with the love discussed in response to Sharmilaji's question so stop using that as an excuse. Hope my original response was not that misleading...!!! humble regards, always at Thy Loving Feet Manjula Patel ---------------------------- There is shloke in Gita that says those who are always engaged in Me I give them Budhi yoga (Intelligent) and through Budhi yoga they attain Me. Bg. 10.10 Naran H ------------------------ Jai Ram Ji Ki! I question the moderator if posting like Sharmila's is right for this kind of audience. This site is not for social basic moral issues but to understand the message of Gita. Sure, one can argue that all moral questions should have answer in Gita, but I do not think this is a forum to discuss general moral and social questions. This is a site for sadhaks not for general curious postings. Sudhir ----------------------- Shri Krishnah sharanam mama. Dear Moderatorji, There are hundreds of Groups, magazines and other fora that discuss sex, extra marital relations, personal tragedies, and so on, which are totally `maayik' or `laukik' (worldly and of illusionary nature) and relate to this illusionary world. Many of the film stars, psychiatrists, regular columnists in weekly papers or magazines, doctors etc. provide their views or `solutions' to such `problems' of the readers. My impression of this august Forum has been that it is like a divine platform where points of intellectual and totally spiritual nature of a high level are discussed and the vews/explanations of the learned sadhaks are exchanged. The whole purport of Gita (and possibly this Group) is to find ways to try to renunciate worldly desires, attachments etc. and transcend to a higher spiritual level to be able to attain bliss and super-conciousness. While some of the worldly topics being posed before the Forum may be relevant to many of us, I strongly feel that this Forum is not the right one to engage itself in such issues, there being many other forums to discuss those types of matters. It is expected that the Sadhaks who are discussing several vital spiritual issues have risen to the next level where they are thinking essentially of God and bliss, and are still not entangled in relations/affairs/sensual pleasures or problems related to them. While appreciating the genuine problems and dilemma that some of the Sadhaks might be feeling in their worldly/materialistic lives, and thanking them for sharing these, my humble submission to the Moderator is that we accept to leave such topics to other forums elsewhere and maintain the level of this Forum as high as it is to discuss only spiritual issues, for which there are no good intellectual forums available like this one. I for one, find this Forum highly enlightening, educating and transcendental (and that meditational feeling gets interrupted with questions totally misplaced for this Forum). I have no intention of hurting anyone's feelings and you are the best judge. Regards, KN Sharma ------------------------ PRIOR POSTING Spirituality is truth/laws/rules/wisdom principles of our lives..... knowingly or unknowingly we follow some and we don't follow others.... accordingly we face the results and then that is taken as destiny.... The fact is that we make our own destiny....all the time... So, it is very important to know these rules/wisdom principles of our lives and follow them... (nothing to do with any religion, although all religions have the same foundation in one way or the other as the truth is one. It can not vary from people to people or place to place or time to time....) Beauty is that once we understand these wisdom principles in depth, we change....transform.... There is nothing else to be done......It is so simple.... It is similar to know Newton's three laws of motion.... once we know these, we understand forever that it is in our interest to follow these... That is how we are able to go in space.......and return back too...... It is not achievable without knowing the basic laws.... Sushil Jain' ----------------------------- JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN. According to the Hindu religion the whole purpose of our existence on earth is to get self realization and to return to God from where we came. If however we get involved in the worldly matters, have attachment etc. we are already increasing our agony through the cycle of re-births and that also no one knows what will be our next yoni, etc. On top of that if one wants to be run by one's passions and attachments trying to find justification for our apparently wrong actions, then our sheel is destroyed, and who can save us in our future life/lives. Why put such a question in a religious forum while Hindu religion is replete with sufferings caused even by jutifiable moha, etc. May God bless you. SHER SINGH AGRAWAL ------------------------------- Namaskar to All, Love is a Positive Energy. Vedanta says 'Hate no one is better than Love every one'. Also our 'Karma' is based on Intentions. Our social norms say: 'We should not harm anyone by our act in words, deeds and thoughts'. The indirect act of others about us can also be added to our Karma. Saint Meera loved 'Lord Krishna' and by Bhakti Yog, she could not reciprocate to husbands Worldly love. Saints love all being unattached and we being Worldly feel we are not loved enough. The blindness during love is Worldly and this bodily sensuous desire can be overcome by Intellect. GOD will feel pity that our costly intellect is not used and Karma will be marked accordingly. Even 'Quran' says others consent is required when marriage is solemnized. So It is a sin to win away a Married man from his wife ! Examples from our religious texts show as per Vedanta that humans are of five types. Animal (instinct) humans can't be Godly, which is highest state of Humans. -- Regards Swapan PURKAYASTHA ---------------------- Smt Manjula Patel has mentioned about Sri Krishna in Gita and mentions that Sri Krishna in Human form was desired by many women and also at the end married 16,000 women to give them liberation. This is a total misunderstanding of our Scriptures. 1. Sei Krishna was never in " Human " form in this avathara, unlike Sri Rama-avathara. Sri Krishna shows Himself as Divine and Super Human from the beginning, as a child, as a youth playing with Radha and other Gopikas - much older to Him. He was Divine till the End. 2. The details given are not in Srimad Bhagavad Gita but in Bhagavatham which is the Sri Vaishnavite Scripture explaining the entire Avathara. 3. In all the stories, Sri Krishna represents the form of Divine which is Purusha or Paramathma, and all Humans, men and women, are reoresented as Gopikas or Human female form of the Jivas which is Athma covered by the 5 layers of Upaadhis. The Jiva-athmas sole desire should be to remove all the clothings of upaadhis to liberate themselved for the ultimate surrender to the Paramatha as Sri Krishna = this is why in one story He asks the Gopikas to come out of the Pond of Ignorance without the clothings [naked - just by themselves without passion, greed, demands, or attachment, to reach Hind Divine Grace. This is one form of Kantha Bhava of Devotion - as a Hindu Philosophy. This should not confuse Miss Sharmila ji to justify that even Sri Krishna had multiple partners. Many Hindu God- Nabifestations are shown with Two wives in Divine forms - these represent Ichcha-Sakthi and Kriya Sakthi that will attach to Gnaaana Sakthi and not human. In the Human manifestation of Mahavishnu, therefore, as Sri Raama shows himself as only with one wife Seetha. So we must take this lesson. If one gets a desire towards a married man, they must stop it and forget it as a bad dream as sson as one realize the fact. Your own " GURU " or priest doing it does not justify to perform this Nishidhdha Karma or actions that are debarred by our Dharma. Thank you, Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram Feedback on Future Questions to be Addressed by Group - Beauty of Gitaji is to answer all questions by bringing back the spirituality in daily life. Why do we have to divide life into spiritual life, social life, family life etc etc? Why to break that Holistic approach which is the solution to our problems of such divisions? Also some apparent solutions may not be directly addressed in Gita but learned Sadhakas may have experienced in different ways, so what is wrong to help someone? Gitaji has all answers but to dig them out in proper context, and to make them applicable in a given situation is an art we are all learning. Pratap Bhatt For the time being, we will post similar types of questions, provided questioner (sadhak) commits to reading the Gita, and shares feedback from sadhak responses received. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- NEW POSTING Loving All: Pranams. There were couple-few in this responses who have pointed finger at Krishna, fine, if they want to compare themselves with Krishna, let's straighten few things:- Krishna, even as a human being, was such an elevated soul that before even entering his & #65007;mother & #65007;'s womb miracles were happening, is it true for you? - Krishna lived with Gopies-Gopas and all other men-women of Gokul only up to the age of 10 or 11 (not even teenage, someone can correct this), then is this love a physical attraction/sex/lust/passion or any such sort? - When in youth, women wanted to marry him and that was the custom/norm of that era to allow many wives so he fulfilled the desires of women (e.g., he came to rescue Rukmani who was asked to marry someone against her will). Please note, it is not his desire, he ran after fulfilling. - He liberated those 16000 women who said to him that we were abducted by this demon but the society will not accept us. People will always think of us as impure and say that these women have spent night at another man's house..., they will not accept us or give proper respect to us so please accept us. Krishna did...!!! He gave them love, respect and status in that society. - Krishna was constantly threatened to be killed and yet he did what was needed to be done for these women, man, friends, families of that society. Men-women like to portray Krishna's pure-selfless love as an excuse to their physical attraction/lust/passion/etc. Can one really compare themselves with Krishna, even as a human being? Can you even do an iota of what he did for that society? How he uplifted women? How he helped and supported his friends and family members? To what extend selflessness, kindness, egolessness, compassion, love flowed from him for the mankind? Think... think and think it over what are you saying and who are you doubting and with whom are you comparing yourself...??? humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet Manjula Patel ------------------------------ Life is to seek freedom from rebirth and rebirth is due to attachment and desire and the life should be lead with a mind to reduce the desire and attachment and anything towards detachment is good and that which increases attachment and desire is not good but when you do it you apy for it by pain associated with it. Sin is not like the one you find in Christian literature. So you are desire is to bind you more to carnal desire and hence lead you to utter despair. Freedom is to free one from habit and habit is formed due to attachment! So habit is formed and repeated habit leads to rebirth... a long answer but that is how it is! Ramayan R.S. ---------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram RAJUJI - Draupadi did not have five husbands. The five Pandavas were only One. Swamiji has explained in one of Vishesh pravachans. If someone can recollect the specifics please share to clarify Rajuji's statement. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------------------------------- RAM RAM! Respected sadhak/ sadhaka, Yes it is a sin being with a married man. unless he is a widower. for todays times. it is illegal in hindus. But circumstances in past marriage can be bad for the man as wife may have married him for money, power etc. and tensions can rise because of this or aduletury on any part. any way getting a divorce is difficult for todays law. In ancient times kings used to have many RANIS like dashratha, pandu, krishna bhagwan many rishis etc.. but that time was generally not kali yuga and dharmic laws were obliged by all. (Artha, dharma, kama, moksha) were the service goal of a wife and husband. In todays times generally men marry second or fall in affair for lust not love. (99%) cases. So law in kaliyuga has made second marriage difficult. a sin. in kaliyuga. anyway law have own faults as case specific laws are not flexible in India at present. Second marriage may be allowed for getting a son/ child if first doesnt have it(as per shastras) or death of a first wife ( for approvable reasons after social, police investigations). Yours truly, kalrav pande ------------------ Dear Sadak, chirag almoula says, " " Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin " " . Plants and animals also breath without knowledge of the creator. Does iy mean sin? Probably you mean that every thought that is not linked with God is a sin. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan --------------------- There is no sin in loving a married man - provided you love him like you love any other person, animal, being. We as humans, have right to love all - and only the person who can love all without discriminating between rich and poor, ugly and pretty, or any other perspective, is dear to GOD. So, love this married man like you love your servant, your colloeague, your seniors, your brother, or any one else. Forming relationship with a married man is not considered good because you are hurting his wife and spoiling his family life. This is certainly a sin. You would be chating on your family - which is again a sin. Anita Sharma -------------------------- ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin. chirag almoula ------------------------------ Dear Sadhika, GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused words. That is why people put - & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love or brotherly love or divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man and woman, in fact it should not be termed as " love " , and its not accepted in any societies. Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist, and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well according to His Will. Dear Chetan, Anish and & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, Socrates became a great philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna sri-bhagavan uvaca kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah mahasano maha-papma viddhy enam iha vairinam The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause of all the evils. Beware!!! And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee (purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will extinguish fire. Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or country. Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God. Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see how amazingly the true Love flows from within. with Love, A sadhika sadhna karigar -------------------------- Jai Hanuman Yes ! Love is blind, Jee ! Says Holy Gita: As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta, so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire. (3:38) Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered with smoke. This is ideal time to get out. The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage. When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma) and his desire(love/lust) is intensified. Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish. Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy available. No doubt about the same. Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external restraint? There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till destruction ! Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom. Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the human when bitten by desires. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala ------------------------- Dear Sarmila Sai Ram Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table, he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully. Kind regards Shakuntla Vishani --------------------------- Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment, greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society, accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India, some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age. So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money, jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it, they will carry the Karma. Bala N. Aiyer ----------------------- Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation. When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck. Kalidasan ------------------------------- Hare Krishna, There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such relationship (as written by other person except between & #65007;mother & #65007; and child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and because of that love, is a different story and then because if it hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that is a sin. For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition fees: is t a sin? In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!! Pranam! Sarvate, Dinesh G ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Dear sadak Sharmille, What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans. But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity. In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s wife " . Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very powerful with their chastity. Choice is your. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment. You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at the present while reading this email, become free of all worries, all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts. If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist then Swamiji says - invoke God " Hey Naath! Hey Naath!! " Gitaji clearly states " The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects " (Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend, on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's personal guarantee. Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear harsh, but a & #65007;mother & #65007; only scolds her own child and not other children, because of the love and affection she has for her child. So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for clarification. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife, or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are not doing the right thing. also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole world will say that both these people (married man and the woman) are not doing the right thing. In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man and a married woman are not doing the right thing. Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love. Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation, please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions as well. Namasthe, Regards. Bharathi ------------------------------- I think & #65007;sharmilla & #65007;ji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the society at large. Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how to avoid the situation? God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart and help. Dinesh Patel --------------------------- Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5 husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally? Lord Krishna himself had several " loves " . What is " Sin " (Paapam?)? Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is " Universal Love " ? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you " love " in a detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either yourself or others harshly. Good luck. Raju (it would help if you can provide us your last name in future postings - GT Moderators) ------------------------ Sat Nam Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman? The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in " love " with a married man. It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us and consequently in us. " Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of Prakriti. " Ch XIII, V19. " That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion, stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is called tamasic. " Ch XVIII v39. Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that after its effect will come back at the generator, us? " In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause. " Ch XIII v20. Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality conditioned and limited in duality. We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity. One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion. Please understand that. " Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless. " Ch VII v25. Sat Nam jose rodriguez --------------------------- Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love of persons without looking the physical nature of individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged marriages and a small fear to divorce because of soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all and for posterity.With regards, M.Hariharakrishnan. ---------------------------- If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot justify it by saying he was God. I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by normal morals. e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk Moderators) In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a married person have achieved greater good for society which they may not have done without this other person in their lives. I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a marriage. If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised Arjuna to kill his own relatives. Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas. Chetan Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram ------------------------------- Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they should live fully with mutual preeti . in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno. brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3 putras . why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at least half of them. they will go to sanyaas or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa. in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much recommended. Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the preeti is not for ulterior motives . ramans shriman -------------------------- I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the other way around! It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as love will not make other people suffer!!! what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!! To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get 100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%?????? Is it not sin on their partner who " makes " such situations and ruin the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!! What does that person do???????? Waste his/her life????? just so that they don't fall into the bracket of " sinners " by the so called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!! i dissagree completely with it!!!!!! i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!! Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the person goes through so much agony which only these people who suffers can understand!!!! Anish Naik -------------------------- Hello everyone..! I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma is great.....thanks...hari om ajay mehta -------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views. It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the " vivek " discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita - " Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah " (Gita 6:5) " A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own enemy. " The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual rise or downfall. No one else is. If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your responses. This forum is not about free expression of your beliefs / opinions and values system. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING ----------------------------- The answer could be understood in another way... If you love and get married to him and then another woman comes up this very question......What would be your answer.....? If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now..... Sushil Jain -------------------------------- Hare Krishna, Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible than you. But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or break your life. You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon. You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of this demon. If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon. Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed. Ashok Goenka ------------------------------- Hari Om It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to either party that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and quality. Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also treats both differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently for each one of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different. Naturally, because both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind sets, different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner expressions) ! It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes out punishment to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would always be a backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/ promises to retrace .. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost certainly would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save the family. Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already existing family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to the rescue of female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ? A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more. Females conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of fall out etc are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly controlled by Divine Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who will take her in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes ! But the world/ & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in case of male having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to each of us, WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is how it is ! Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the sufferer. Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human quoted by the questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally famous saying prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is drunk and one is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her own for balance life is with female not with the male. Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should immediately do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the same.Mike too brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct. " Getting carried away " - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own mind, and one's own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has conscience to refer to. Each has got history to look at. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;ji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words like " carried away " and " it happens to a lot of women " .... OK ! Now FORGET ABOUT THE PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these sadhaks. You know that this food contains POISON. Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it, therefore it is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead? Swamiji says - " You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be poisoned. How is that possible ? " The reason you are questioning and asking about whether this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and unhappy is that you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you continue then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You simply cannot escape it. The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned ladoos and get poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful. Therefore no dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization. Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union (coming together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like poison. (Gita 18:38). If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow through with what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge in only Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please confirm to the group that you have done so. Meera Das Ram Ram ------------------------------- Jai Hanuman Say Holy Scriptures thus: Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance; then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have easily crossed over the perils of youth. In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what good is possibly there? O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ? When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud and a river, destroy the tree on the bank. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------------- Dear Sister By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single / married person'? Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice (Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise. Regards Venu Komanduri - Dear Self, Love , True Love is Dharma. It is our true Nature. Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region, a race, or a religion. Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma is True Love and Loving. To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self . And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us practise them ? Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows. He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs, concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma. The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he loves her with his body, his mind and his soul. In reality both are not †" two. And the aim of both is to reach One- ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul. Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara, dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga Anushasnam " .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of Yoga ....) Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of Self-discipline. So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? ) and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna . So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? ) This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other' appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self- created wish ............... ( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and the blame-game shall take over in the new relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither has ......... ) In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘ entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’. India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too. Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of Society,and the values practised within the family only will get reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in the conduct outside the Family. The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13, and the same are first to be practised within the family. Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving & #65007;Mother & #65007; , & #65007;Mother & #65007; Prakrirt has made her a & #65007;Mother & #65007; ; a woman is not a woman, if she is not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children. Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘ lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is ! Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us ( not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of love. She has to be a mistress , a & #65007;mother & #65007;, a sister, a counsellor leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a companion, a guide and a guru. But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding , only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry ! Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me . Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True Dharma . Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is best . Love to you, and Blessings. Your own Self narinder bhandari AUM --------------------------- PRIOR POSTING I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations. i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women out there, sita ram & #65007;sharmilla & #65007; -------------------------------- Hari Bol Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY. Is it really " LOVE " ? Or is not " LUST " ? Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in pain and suffering for fellow human beings. Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this " LOVE " affair and allow the family to live in peace and happiness. Hari Om, Krishna S. Narinedath. ------------------------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything... no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!! SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help! He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest, because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless! Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will make them capable. This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji, Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These messages are directly from God Himself. And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this. This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the sadhaks and seek help from God. Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be relieved.. " Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram " (Gita 12:12). Peace immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on. All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic! " Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet. " May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease), May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one experiences any pain and sorrow. " Meera Das Ram Ram -------------------------------- -Shree Hari- Dear & #65007;Sharmilla & #65007;, BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16 Led astray by many fancies, Covered by delusion's meshes, Addicted to gratifying Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16) He who sets aside the counsels Of scriptures from desire's impulse, Attains not unto perfection, Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23) The scriptures should be your guide in What should be done and what should not. Knowing what the scriptures prescribe, You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24) Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea). That would answer your question. However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with: B.G. 18 Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62) My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these potent words of his, " Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves as others see us " . With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how someone can have doubt on this subject. Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide being a grown person. The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this yardstick. now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her. Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action. Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum? Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more closesly : And what if it is not a sin ? And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person or just when planning to love ? And what is that, we are all " humans " , not all the natural tendencies of humans are sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ? it is " usual " to love a person - Not all " usual " things are pardoned by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual things and render us into something superior. i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this question on the social or legal front sivaraman_rk -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or a & #65007;mother & #65007;'s love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point. It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment, pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have been given by & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family , surely ! But - Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in itself. Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God. Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general disharmony. Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to one's own self. Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is direct disrespect to one's conscience. No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History, Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI ( conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with an already married man. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B --------------------------- Hare Krishna, I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you have to pay for it. What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time. Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man, you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years. Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful. Ashok Goenka ----------------------------- Jai Hanuman I will cover only one aspect. One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied then it translates into the lady loving an already married man, stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame which the children or the parents or the family members feel within their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not want for himself/herself ! Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or gross respect by the & #65007;Mother & #65007; Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for herself/himself. Namaste Jee Jee Jee Shashikala -------------------------- if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a participant in the destruction of an intact society. " Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe. " - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita) Ben -------------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin? ....Gee Waman ---------------------------- It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married man then it is a sin. Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------------- Hari om. Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit. we should never indulge or even think of such sin. If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister. IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life. This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon. Any girl should go away from such sinful crime. Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust' It is evil to even think of it. Even raising a question will make us evil. Hari Om. Usha Sridhar -- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! They say " love is blind " but " Marriage is an eye opener " . Such love with married man with family is a big no, no! There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of married man, another inappropriate thing. Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us, and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering. One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on such relationship, the better it is for all involved. When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything, asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love! My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away! What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one, I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely! I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise! Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt ---------------------------- Wonderful question... Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and wrong... Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself... If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others also feel happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa.. Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin....... In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain...... Attachment always causes pain...... Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to know about it... Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness... Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to anything outside..... Sushil Jain ----------------------------- ---------------------------- Priy Sadhaks, In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference from what people call love today. We all are in divine love . Love always gives. Selfishness always wants. Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love overwhelms the world. It was divine love only. Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana (spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai. Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem. (If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire world like that). God is all. VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE. Love U all Always at thy lotus feet Raja Gurdasani ---------------------------- Dear Sharmila Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you should allow him to carry on his responsibilities. Aparna gunjikar ----------------------------- I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around, otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya. There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our actions that simultaneously generate a reaction. " O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation. " 14:16 " It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind, slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation with life's difficulties). " 14:17 " Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and (the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas. " Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya) desire, possesion and re-memory with love. 18:49 " That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled. " Sat Nam ---------------------- Sharmilaji An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to know the proproiety of such a love. First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is wrong. Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse of the married man)definitely it is a sin. All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the damage is less. What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts in the field. vrsarma podury -------------------------- ----------------------- Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man? To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance , sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling as it is said " i belong to you " . When one is in real love , he or she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in feeling mentally without any external expressions. Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an extreme vice. rathindra prasad lahiri ---------------------------- Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question. i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman. there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned. The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife. Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy. If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction. Where as the & #65007;mother & #65007;ly love is out of blood. there is no blood relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has children? becuase she is & #65007;mother & #65007;. Even men who have lost their wives will not like to marry because they have to take care of the children. we see so many & #65007;mother & #65007;s young only bring up the children. I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal terminology as far as the man is concerned. Thank you jayashree sarathy -------------------------- i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love? Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family, what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_ insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it normal or is it a sin? kind regards sharmilla Follow-up Comments: sita ram To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this happening over and over. DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making anyone angry, ram ram sharmilla ----------------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. 12. No criticism of other sadhaks. Respect for all. No judging ! MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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