Difference between Vratti and Sphurna per Gitaji

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

Per Gitaji, what is the difference between " vratti " and " sphurna " ?

Vratti such as propensity in sattvik, rajasik and tamasik bhaav;

 

Please excuse me as I don't know the English translation of both the

words.

 

Hare Krishna

Varun Paprunia

---------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

 

FOR QUESTIONER

1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,

relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to

motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path

2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

3. Only one question at a time.

4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's

primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

 

 

FOR RESPONDER

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's

time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message: @grou ps.com

Subscribe: -

Un: -unsubscri be

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

Per Gitaji, what is the difference between " vratti " and " sphurna " ?

Vratti such as propensity in sattvik, rajasik and tamasik bhaav;

 

Please excuse me as I don't know the English translation of both the

words.

 

Hare Krishna

Varun Paprunia

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Hari Om

 

Varunji ! Both are different things. " Vrittis " (tendencies; moods)

are a characteristics of MIND ! They keep changing among sattwik /

rajasic / tamasic modes. Vrittis are targets of Dhyaan Yoga - where

the stability of mind is sought by the meditator yogi. Purification

of " vrattis " is the goal thus of Raaj Yoga !

 

On the other hand " sphurana " is a wave in the form of desire, coming

into mind/intellect, based on prior karmas, as a result/impact. You

have option to convert them into " sankalpa " (desire) by your

intellect and do karmas accordingly or ignore them. They are

thus " tools " in the hands of Divine Law of Karma. They keep coming

like waves in the mind. You respect them/catch them then they

become " sankalpa " and you ignore them, they go away.

Some " sphuranas " are very strong , and force you to act upon the

same- so that you may pay penalty/ enjoy rewards for your prior

karmas. (Karmanusarini Buddhih- intellect chages in accordance with

your prior deeds)

 

In other words , vrittis are mind itself in its natural form while

sphuranas are visitors to it as 'propellors' to induce Jeeva to do

karmas.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sadhaks, If you know Hindi PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I urge you to

listen to all the VISHESH PRAVACHANS (DISTINCTIVE AND EXCEPTIONAL

DISCOURSES) by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

 

He has addressed Vritti and Sphurna in these. In fact essence of

all our scriptures will be understood if you go through the series.

There is no doubt about it. They are located at:

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

 

# 118 specifically addresses - How to be free of Sphurnaa

# 103 addresses Vrittis (but not certain)

 

If anyone has the time, it will be an invaluable service to those

who do not understand Hindi, if you can translate and share under

this topic.

 

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-----------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

 

FOR QUESTIONER

1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,

relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to

motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path

2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

3. Only one question at a time.

4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's

primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

 

 

FOR RESPONDER

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's

time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message: @grou ps.com

Subscribe: -

Un: -unsubscri be

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

Per Gitaji, what is the difference between " vratti " and " sphurna " ?

Vratti such as propensity in sattvik, rajasik and tamasik bhaav;

 

Please excuse me as I don't know the English translation of both the

words.

 

Hare Krishna

Varun Paprunia

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

 

Ram Ram

 

Thank you Sir, my doubt is cleared.

 

Thank you Mira Mataji, I heard that pravachan (#118). It is amazing. Whatever

Swamiji has said in that pravachan, it is very difficult ot find the same in

books. I think they are scattered all over.

 

Ram Ram

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

-------------------------

Thank you Vyas. A very interesting explanation.

 

And for the benefit of people like me, not knowing hindi, can we get

a proper translation of this discourse Meera is talking about.

 

Siva

 

-------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

A sadhak has graciously translated and sent the Vishesh Pravachan # 118 -

Sphurnaa Kaise Mite? This was recently posted on Sadhak. It is being attached

here, for those who are not part of the sadhak group.

 

Ram Ram

---------------------------

Question: How to be Free of Waves (Subtle Desires / thought waves)

in the form of " Sphurnas " ?

 

Answer: Neither have likes, nor dislikes. Simply engage mind in

Bhagwaan (God). Goswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and

free me of desires, anger and faults'. And only `Give me your

devotion' – as that alone will suffice. Similarly, while chanting

Bhagwaan's name, if sphurnas (thought/desire waves occurring in

mind) come frequently, then sadhak should neither connect with those

thoughts, nor forcefully disconnect (abhor) them. Then what should

be done? He should try to engage in God and chant Lord's Name. Then

these sphurnas will go away.

 

Bad thoughts, waves, propensities etc. are of two types:

 

Teevra Manorajya (Propensities with great force)

Manda Manorajya (Propensities with light force)

 

If you become indifferent, then they will come and simply go away.

If you challenge them, then they will go after much fighting and

force. Simply by engaging in God, they will be wiped out. In both

kinds of sphurnas, if sadhak does not establish a relation with

those thought waves by either liking - disliking them, and instead

becomes neutral, uninvolved and disinterested, then these thoughts

will perish on their own. If the bad thoughts are detested then the

sadhak is at war with those thoughts and these thoughts will be

temporarily suppressed. If sadhak becomes indifferent to these

desire filled thought waves, if he ignores them, then they are

automatically reduced. But if sadhak remains steadfast in worship

then the bad propensities will be wiped out.

 

Three things happen to sphurnas. They either get -

1. Suppressed - by making an effort, you try to control and it

suppresses over time.

2. Reduced - by being indifferent they will be reduced, and will not

come as frequently.

3. Wiped out (perishes). By engaging in Bhagwaan, they will perish.

 

If the propensities are not ignored, rather if they are confronted

then more power has to be exerted to fight them, but the gains are

not as much, because they are only suppressed, and likely to occur

again at a later time. If sadhak becomes indifferent and ignores

them and concentrates on chanting, meditation, worship etc. then

those waves will reduce and will ultimately perish on their own.

Confronting these thought wave occurrences, may work for a few days

but the sphurnas will again come up. In fact it won't leave for

years. If sadhak's effort is to confront and control the sphurnas

(thought / desire waves), then this will also yield results

ultimately. But ignoring the propensities is far easier and quicker

approach. (to be continued)

 

From " Vishesh Pravachan - # 118 - Sphurnao Se Kaise Chute? " in Hindi

by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

---------------------

Question: How to be Free of Waves (Subtle Desires / thought waves)

in the form of " Sphurnas " ?

 

Answer: (continued from March 3, 2009)

 

Yesterday we discussed about three approaches to the sphurnas (subtle thoughts

waves/propensities)

 

Another point is that many new sphurnas (thought waves) come and many old

sphurnas go away. Let the old thought ways go away, as they will be wiped out on

their own. Now the point to think over is which sphurnas are coming and which

are going. The way to know whether a sphurna is coming or going is -

 

While chanting or doing something if a sadhak remains indifferent and

disinterested towards the sphurnas – if the force of such sphurna appears to be

reduced then that sphurna is going. If some sphurnas seems to increase then

sphurnas are coming. If a sphurna doesn't compel one to commit any action then

the sphurna is going. If it impels one to commit an action, arouses a strong

urge in sadhak to do that action, then that sphurna is coming. This is a good

gauge for whether it is coming or going.

 

Sphurna's relationship is primarily with past and future, not with present. If

you indulge in pleasure in from the past and think over and over about it then

that sphurna will increase. If you neither like or dislike it and remain

disinterested then the sphurna will perish on its own. If that sphurna arouses

an urge then sadhak, should not get swayed by it. If he commits that action then

sphurna will increase.

 

Sphurnas (subtle thought waves) are of two types – good and bad.

Good sphurnas are those that benefit others and where selfishness is sacrificed.

Bad sphurnas are those that are for one's selfish interests and they do not

benefit others. To get rid of bad sphurnas, one must think that being a sadhak

this is not my work. Now I do not wish to walk this evil path. The aim should

be clear that we do not wish to do anything that is not beneficial to our

spiritual growth. A clear aim and intent expressing that I do not want to do

this at all ever again, is very beneficial. By having this sentiment, this aim,

the sphurna will go away

 

For the Good sphurnas, also there are two decisions, should they be done now or

in the future?

 

Any thing that is not essential to do in the present, and is of no use in the

very present, we should leave it for the time being.

Those sphurnas that are essential to do at this very moment you may try to stall

it, if it doesn't go away and if there is no harm to anyone in our doing it, and

we cannot remain without doing it, it becomes essential work. They must be done

right away and then leave it. Essential (aavashyak) – have to be done and

thereafter one must once again engage in worship and meditation (bhajan /

dhyaan). We must learn not to get caught in commitments that make things

essential.

 

From " Vishesh Pravachan - # 118 - Sphurnao Se Kaise Chute? " in Hindi by Swami

Ramsukhdasji.

 

 

 

Hari Om

 

Varunji ! Both are different things. " Vrittis " (tendencies; moods)

are a characteristics of MIND ! They keep changing among sattwik /

rajasic / tamasic modes. Vrittis are targets of Dhyaan Yoga - where

the stability of mind is sought by the meditator yogi. Purification

of " vrattis " is the goal thus of Raaj Yoga !

 

On the other hand " sphurana " is a wave in the form of desire, coming

into mind/intellect, based on prior karmas, as a result/impact. You

have option to convert them into " sankalpa " (desire) by your

intellect and do karmas accordingly or ignore them. They are

thus " tools " in the hands of Divine Law of Karma. They keep coming

like waves in the mind. You respect them/catch them then they

become " sankalpa " and you ignore them, they go away.

Some " sphuranas " are very strong , and force you to act upon the

same- so that you may pay penalty/ enjoy rewards for your prior

karmas. (Karmanusarini Buddhih- intellect chages in accordance with

your prior deeds)

 

In other words , vrittis are mind itself in its natural form while

sphuranas are visitors to it as 'propellors' to induce Jeeva to do

karmas.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

--------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Sadhaks, If you know Hindi PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I urge you to

listen to all the VISHESH PRAVACHANS (DISTINCTIVE AND EXCEPTIONAL

DISCOURSES) by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

 

He has addressed Vritti and Sphurna in these. In fact essence of

all our scriptures will be understood if you go through the series.

There is no doubt about it. They are located at:

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

 

# 118 specifically addresses - How to be free of Sphurnaa

# 103 addresses Vrittis (but not certain)

 

If anyone has the time, it will be an invaluable service to those

who do not understand Hindi, if you can translate and share under

this topic.

 

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-----------------------

 

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

 

FOR QUESTIONER

1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,

relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to

motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path

2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

3. Only one question at a time.

4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's

primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

 

 

FOR RESPONDER

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's

time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

Post message: @grou ps.com

Subscribe: -

Un: -unsubscri be

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

, " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Per Gitaji, what is the difference between " vratti " and " sphurna " ?

> Vratti such as propensity in sattvik, rajasik and tamasik bhaav;

>

> Please excuse me as I don't know the English translation of both the

> words.

>

> Hare Krishna

> Varun Paprunia

> ---------------------------

> NEW POSTING

>

> Hari Om

>

> Varunji ! Both are different things. " Vrittis " (tendencies; moods)

> are a characteristics of MIND ! They keep changing among sattwik /

> rajasic / tamasic modes. Vrittis are targets of Dhyaan Yoga - where

> the stability of mind is sought by the meditator yogi. Purification

> of " vrattis " is the goal thus of Raaj Yoga !

>

> On the other hand " sphurana " is a wave in the form of desire, coming

> into mind/intellect, based on prior karmas, as a result/impact. You

> have option to convert them into " sankalpa " (desire) by your

> intellect and do karmas accordingly or ignore them. They are

> thus " tools " in the hands of Divine Law of Karma. They keep coming

> like waves in the mind. You respect them/catch them then they

> become " sankalpa " and you ignore them, they go away.

> Some " sphuranas " are very strong , and force you to act upon the

> same- so that you may pay penalty/ enjoy rewards for your prior

> karmas. (Karmanusarini Buddhih- intellect chages in accordance with

> your prior deeds)

>

> In other words , vrittis are mind itself in its natural form while

> sphuranas are visitors to it as 'propellors' to induce Jeeva to do

> karmas.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> Vyas N B

> --------------------------

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

> Sadhaks, If you know Hindi PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I urge you to

> listen to all the VISHESH PRAVACHANS (DISTINCTIVE AND EXCEPTIONAL

> DISCOURSES) by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

>

> He has addressed Vritti and Sphurna in these. In fact essence of

> all our scriptures will be understood if you go through the series.

> There is no doubt about it. They are located at:

>

> http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

>

> # 118 specifically addresses - How to be free of Sphurnaa

> # 103 addresses Vrittis (but not certain)

>

> If anyone has the time, it will be an invaluable service to those

> who do not understand Hindi, if you can translate and share under

> this topic.

>

> Meera Das

> Ram Ram

> -----------------------

>

>

> GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

>

> FOR QUESTIONER

> 1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,

> relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to

> motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path

> 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

> 3. Only one question at a time.

> 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's

> primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

>

>

> FOR RESPONDER

> 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

> 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

> 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> 4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's

> time.

> 5. Focus on subject at hand only.

> 6. Do not include links to the other sites.

> 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

> 8. Do not personalize message

> 9. All responses may not be posted.

> 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

> 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

> sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

> Provide English word bracketed.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

>

> Post message: @grou ps.com

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -unsubscri be

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>