Guest guest Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 -Shree Hari- Regarding the paste from 'sadhak insight' 24th February, 2009, Tuesday '.....because if we desire for others, desire happiness from others then we will have to become dependent. And `Dependent person is not happy even in dreams' " Paraadheen sapnehun such naahi " (RamCharitmanas (1:102:3)). Don't have any desire then all sorrows will come to an end' I would appreciate any comments from the learned Sadhaks to expand/debate this, as I sense Swamiji's statement addresses a major misconception in society at large. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- NEW POSTING From 'Sadhakon Ke Prati'(code 418), page 1-2 A very important thing for sadhak is to be - free of any dependency. To feel necessity of body, money, person, country, time etc. is only their dependence. One who has more money, knowledge, intellect, power etc., he can serve world more- sadhak should wipe out this delusion. Whatever money, knowledge, power etc. sadhak has, from that only he can perform biggest of the biggest charity to serve the world. Whatever we don't have, we are not liable to give it anyone. God-attainment does not hapen through things, but by renouncement. Thing which are created-destroyed - To consider their necessity and one's success by taking their shelter is a grave mistake. Even in dreams sadhak should never take the shelter of created-destructible things. Whatever money, property, family etc. a sadhak has, with their presence he should root out the feeling of their necessity from his inner faculty. By doing so a sadhak's progress is natural. To take shelter of created-destructible things, to accept their dependence is a very big obstacle in all the three paths - Karmayog, Gyanyog, Bhaktiyog. Even though the embodied soul is a fragment of eternal, complete in itself, flawless Parmatma yet he considers necessity of created-destructible things then how can he ever know Pramatma? Therefore, money etc. is mine and is very necessary for me - sadhak should wipe out this sentiment. It is a common notion among masses that whichever thing, situation, ability etc. is not present now, if I get it then I will make progress. He assumes his progress in insentient created-destructible things. For instance, if he doesn't have money, then by earning money and becoming a millionaire he thinks that I have made huge progress, if he is illiterate then by studying and becoming a knowledgeable person, he thinks that I have made great progress, etc. In reality, this is not progress, but great ruin. That thing which did not exist before, it will also not exist afterwards. Self is ALWAYS existent but still, considering one's progress by transient things is only betraying oneself. That Parmatma which is forever and which will exist forever, attaining Him is the only actual progress, to be made by human. That thing which doesn’t exist now, even if we attain it, then for how long will it be with us? That which is presently " NOT " , in the end it will turn into " NOT " . Attaining such created-destructible things and considering big because of it is only their dependency. Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------- Hare Krishna, Swamiji was very right on this matter. We should restrain our self from desires. Let God desire, if He thinks that we are fit to do some thing for some one, he will give us the 'sphurna' to do that work. He has His program fixed, we are not supposed to create any disturbance or imbalance in His program. Desiring for self or others will create an imbalance in His program. Krishna had clearly told Arjuna that all these people whom you see are already dead. We are just puppets and our duty is to follow the orders of our master. Ashok Goenka -------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Dependency on anything of this world inevitably brings unhappiness as we all know too well! Problem is not the things of the world, nor with or in them, but dependency on them to keep one happy is the problem. Things, including relationships to people and properties, etc cannot be depended upon because things change, people change, the one who desires to be happy also changes, oscillating between boredom and happiness. In a constantly changing environment, how can one find happiness? Another point is that as long as one desires to be happy, one is already acknowledging unhappiness with present state of affairs. Such acknowledgments keep the mind chasing happiness in whatever one finds, thus breeding more dependencies and disappointments. It may be noted that worldly objects in themselves have no power to make us happy or unhappy! We endow them the power to do so and suffer in the process. We become so much dependent that we even dream about them! It is better to find out what causes unhappiness. Dependency on things perceived/conceived externally to us do seem to give us happiness fooling us to seek more and more! But if one looks closely every time one is happy, it is because the desire has ceased temporarily upon obtaining the desired objects or satisfaction we were looking for! It is temporary cessation of desire and subsequent state of desire- less-ness that brought us happiness, not the objects as they may seem to be. Such desire-less state has to lie within me only. As Jesus says " The Kingdom of Happiness lies within you " ! Why don't we find the Kingdom? Due to identification with limited body-mind, a lack is inherent in the unvalidated sense of " me " causing it to desire incessantly to be whole, adequate, significant, lacking nothing! Desire and " me " are same, not two, and this " me " not knowing this false duality, resists or tries to hold on to the desire, a state of everlasting struggle and conflict! The conflict between " me " and the desire that " me " is trying to control, is not apparent to most of us and thus goes on perpetually. We need to see very clearly that this is only an artificial duality between " what is " and " what should be " in the intrinsic Wholeness I already AM! Note also, I, Wholeness, Consciousness, Reality are one and the same, not many equivalents! This Clarity will wipe out the artificial duality from the mind and WHOLENESS gets hold of such a mind! Do we need to say Happiness reins in that Mind? Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt ------------------ Dear sadaks, To do any Karma the desire is the cause. While doing that Karma the results of such Karma has to be borne in mind it is not for the doer. Now that you desired to know the answer to your question, there can be praises or critics. Both are to be unnoticed or better unaware. Further if the desire got fulfilled or suspended or not acquired the Kartha (doer) should remain unattached. In such case there will not be sorrow or pain what so ever. Sri Rama or sri Krishna projected desire in their action but got NOT attached. Ex: The most loving Radha of Virdhavan was just left abruptly by Sri Krishna while going with Akruura to Mathura. Sri Krishna only compares Radha with Yudhava on subject of devotion. Even Sant Naradh fails in devotion on this comparision. Sri Rama loved so much mother Seetha, but when neccessity came HE sent her away to forest. Sri Lakshman was sent out of Ayodhiya by Sri Rama at one last instance. The desires were only projected but not attached to the mind. When this can be achived then there is no sorrow even if one has to die, just like Tapovan Maharaj of Himalayas who invited death. Another example: Sri Rama was quite aware that kingdom and everyone around was illusion, by the teachings of HIS Guru Vasita teaching known as Yoga Vasista. So the moment Dasaratha told Sri Rama to quit the kingdom, HIS face was like just blossomed lotus says puran. Only when one expects results of Karma the trouble starts. Otherwise the Karma or desire has no effect even in dream Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Namasthey, As a result of the merits / demerits acquired from the past, a human birth is taken place here. He is born in the world with certain instincts vedantically called " Vasana " . One's desires are determined to enjoy / suffer the world is depending on the vasanas he carries with him. According to the in-hand qualities he yearns for the world's so called enjoyments through the 5 senses. As he grows, when particular desires become strong at various level of enjoyments he gets the pleasures / pains through the sense organs. He / she enjoys through his / her Eyes see, Ears hear, Toung tastes, skin touches, Nose smells. The eyes etc are the sense organs and the seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled are the sense objects which are wanted by him / her. These available only in the world. So long one is in the world he / she is bound / dependent. He / she misunderstands the enjoyments of the world as happiness or sufferings in the world as misery. Vedantically both are illusions. For a permanent happiness, one has to get free from these illusions and fully prepare oneself to leave these enjoyments for ever. There are various techniques prescribed by sciptures. Gita's declaration is that alone, one can realize even by repeating the word Geetha,Geetha,Geetha,Geetha till it become Thagee, Thagee, Thagee, Thagee which really means Tyaga, renunciation. Renunciate that which is miserable enjoyments, short- lived enjoyments available in the world bounded us as dependent. Shobha ------------------------------- Dear Shri Mike Simply stated, desire when fulfilled brings happiness and if not creates unhappiness wither in the form of unhappiness or misery or conflict in the minds of the person who desires. As stated in the Geetha, " Karmanyeva……….., ma phalashu kadachana " , when one does a thing- including desiring without anticipating the desired results, there is neither happiness or unhappiness. There will only be a sense of fulfillment of having done one's duty to ones best of ability. In our daily life, if one looks back objectively, one could discern times when Deeds done, without expectation of desired results, have not created a conflict of happiness or unhappiness. The least is a feeling either of having done one's duty since the results depend on various other factors. Personally, I have felt that one's life is a Vector diagram and the stability of the Life depends only on the intrinsic strength of the " self " . The strength develops in one's elf When one understands the life and its forces completely. Best regards, srl narasimhan ------------------------------ If we reason thoughtfully then we can see that desire is the cause of all miseries. Unfulfilled desires make us unhappy and this causes physical and emotional unease. Therefore we should do our duty and leave the rest to God if we want to be happy and lead a peaceful and spiritual life. Hari Shanker Deo ------------------------------ GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita, relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. FOR RESPONDER 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Re: Dependence -Shree Hari- Regarding the paste from 'sadhak insight' 24th February, 2009, Tuesday '.....because if we desire from others, desire happiness from others then we will have to become dependent. And `Dependent person is not happy even in dreams' " Paraadheen sapnehun such naahi " (RamCharitmanas (1:102:3)). Don't have any desire then all sorrows will come to an end' I would appreciate any comments from the learned Sadhaks to expand/debate this, as I sense Swamiji's statement addresses a major misconception in society at large. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Indeed the world at large seeks happiness from others. A human has no right to do so, in fact, nor any need. Result: Struggle ! Because the other one also seeks happiness from you - now two pick pocketers are opposite each other. Who can cheat whom? This is how the sorrows and pains find ways into your life. You are depending upon that thing which is not at all in your control- others ! You are ignoring that thing which is under your control- Self. Happiness lies within you, not outside ! But who heeds? A human is SAT-CHIT-ANANDA himself. He is immortal but seeks to be so depending upon mortal body- dependence on others ! He is all knowing himself- if he knows self , he has known every thing- but seeks to be knowlng through the world, history/geography and so on. A human is himself 'sahaj sukhraasi' but seeks to derive happiness from others- health/wealth/etc. In all three cases he depends or rather foolishly chooses to depend over others - and pays the penalty in the form of sorrows and pains ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------ -Shree Hari- Dear Sadhaks, Sathyanarayanji, reflected my thoughts when asking the original question. How many times does one here things like, " After all I did for her, she just throws dirty water in my face, yes that's the thanks I get " ? Or, " After all my efforts not a word of thanks " . The emotions are there, anger, pain, feelings of betrayal, and so on. I think I have seen reference to 'Duty, Work', good way of looking at such things, doing what is right, because it is Right, ones Duty. A good way to detach from the outcome, i.e. one has done the best they can.(Job done!). With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) ------------------------- Dear Krishna's Devotees, Hare Krishna Let us discuss " Desire " first. There are two types of desires. Worldly desire and Godly desire. Worldly desires should be abandoned all the way. Kam Janami Te Mulam Samkalpat kil Jayate Na twaam Sankalpayishyami Katham te me bhavishyati ! Means-- " O Kaam! I know your root/ source of origin.You are born of desire. And I will not harbour any desire so how you will take birth. " Here desire is rejected entirely but desire to attain spiritual progression is very much essential to make life meaningful. Therefore, whatever we do, it should be offered to God. Action should be in name of God. Yat Karoshi Yad Ashnashi Yad juhoshi Dadaashi Yat Yat Tapasyasi Kaunteya Tat Kurushwa mad arpanam (Shri Gita 9/27) Whatever we do, it should be in the name of God. Desire should be to attain God as Arjuna wanted/ desired Krishna only and Duryodhana desired Army/Narayani Sena from Krishna. Ultimately, Duryodhana lost everything including his own life and Arjuna obtained everything health, wealth and husband of Goddess of Wealth/Lakshmi that is Krishna himself. Hare Krishna Mahesh Sharma -------------------------- ------------------------------- Dear sadak, Child below age of 6/7 does it not depend upon mother? Is it not very happy? What is the reason? Only mind development. Child thinks only for that moment, not of future or past. It thinks of present what it can see and cries for it. Like ice cream. That too the cry is momentary and the incidents are not remembered. Our problem is I-ness. We dont surrender to GOD honestly. If your child dies why do you cry? You know death is certain but time uncertain. Did not Samartha Ramadoss lost his child, but remained calm saying that all is HIS will? Dont say he was saint. Then you are in Samsar circle. You have to blame your self for not raising your knowledge to that level. We collect and store many matters that which are not even important? The news TV, the same thing again and again politics, murder, ETc. Do we stop watching TV? Know we are spoiling our children helplessly. One feeds child in front of TV and when the child grows, we want it not to see the TV. Why worry about next door when your home itself needs attention. One can depend on electricity. But if power fails there should not be even murmur. Then the dependancy is not attached to mind. So with all. Pardon me for my statements. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sathyanarayanaji, One point of clarification... The word used by Swamiji is not " depend " as you has indicated, but " desire " . A child needing his mother is not a desire, it is an essential need " aavashyaktaah " . May be other sadhaks can elaborate on this point. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING From 'Sadhakon Ke Prati'(code 418), page 1-2 A very important thing for sadhak is to be - free of any dependency. To feel necessity of body, money, person, country, time etc. is only their dependence. One who has more money, knowledge, intellect, power etc., he can serve world more- sadhak should wipe out this delusion. Whatever money, knowledge, power etc. sadhak has, from that only he can perform biggest of the biggest charity to serve the world. Whatever we don't have, we are not liable to give it anyone. God-attainment does not hapen through things, but by renouncement. Thing which are created-destroyed - To consider their necessity and one's success by taking their shelter is a grave mistake. Even in dreams sadhak should never take the shelter of created-destructible things. Whatever money, property, family etc. a sadhak has, with their presence he should root out the feeling of their necessity from his inner faculty. By doing so a sadhak's progress is natural. To take shelter of created-destructible things, to accept their dependence is a very big obstacle in all the three paths - Karmayog, Gyanyog, Bhaktiyog. Even though the embodied soul is a fragment of eternal, complete in itself, flawless Parmatma yet he considers necessity of created-destructible things then how can he ever know Pramatma? Therefore, money etc. is mine and is very necessary for me - sadhak should wipe out this sentiment. It is a common notion among masses that whichever thing, situation, ability etc. is not present now, if I get it then I will make progress. He assumes his progress in insentient created-destructible things. For instance, if he doesn't have money, then by earning money and becoming a millionaire he thinks that I have made huge progress, if he is illiterate then by studying and becoming a knowledgeable person, he thinks that I have made great progress, etc. In reality, this is not progress, but great ruin. That thing which did not exist before, it will also not exist afterwards. Self is ALWAYS existent but still, considering one's progress by transient things is only betraying oneself. That Parmatma which is forever and which will exist forever, attaining Him is the only actual progress, to be made by human. That thing which doesn’t exist now, even if we attain it, then for how long will it be with us? That which is presently " NOT " , in the end it will turn into " NOT " . Attaining such created-destructible things and considering big because of it is only their dependency. Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------- Hare Krishna, Swamiji was very right on this matter. We should restrain our self from desires. Let God desire, if He thinks that we are fit to do some thing for some one, he will give us the 'sphurna' to do that work. He has His program fixed, we are not supposed to create any disturbance or imbalance in His program. Desiring for self or others will create an imbalance in His program. Krishna had clearly told Arjuna that all these people whom you see are already dead. We are just puppets and our duty is to follow the orders of our master. Ashok Goenka -------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Dependency on anything of this world inevitably brings unhappiness as we all know too well! Problem is not the things of the world, nor with or in them, but dependency on them to keep one happy is the problem. Things, including relationships to people and properties, etc cannot be depended upon because things change, people change, the one who desires to be happy also changes, oscillating between boredom and happiness. In a constantly changing environment, how can one find happiness? Another point is that as long as one desires to be happy, one is already acknowledging unhappiness with present state of affairs. Such acknowledgments keep the mind chasing happiness in whatever one finds, thus breeding more dependencies and disappointments. It may be noted that worldly objects in themselves have no power to make us happy or unhappy! We endow them the power to do so and suffer in the process. We become so much dependent that we even dream about them! It is better to find out what causes unhappiness. Dependency on things perceived/conceived externally to us do seem to give us happiness fooling us to seek more and more! But if one looks closely every time one is happy, it is because the desire has ceased temporarily upon obtaining the desired objects or satisfaction we were looking for! It is temporary cessation of desire and subsequent state of desire- less-ness that brought us happiness, not the objects as they may seem to be. Such desire-less state has to lie within me only. As Jesus says " The Kingdom of Happiness lies within you " ! Why don't we find the Kingdom? Due to identification with limited body-mind, a lack is inherent in the unvalidated sense of " me " causing it to desire incessantly to be whole, adequate, significant, lacking nothing! Desire and " me " are same, not two, and this " me " not knowing this false duality, resists or tries to hold on to the desire, a state of everlasting struggle and conflict! The conflict between " me " and the desire that " me " is trying to control, is not apparent to most of us and thus goes on perpetually. We need to see very clearly that this is only an artificial duality between " what is " and " what should be " in the intrinsic Wholeness I already AM! Note also, I, Wholeness, Consciousness, Reality are one and the same, not many equivalents! This Clarity will wipe out the artificial duality from the mind and WHOLENESS gets hold of such a mind! Do we need to say Happiness reins in that Mind? Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt ------------------ Dear sadaks, To do any Karma the desire is the cause. While doing that Karma the results of such Karma has to be borne in mind it is not for the doer. Now that you desired to know the answer to your question, there can be praises or critics. Both are to be unnoticed or better unaware. Further if the desire got fulfilled or suspended or not acquired the Kartha (doer) should remain unattached. In such case there will not be sorrow or pain what so ever. Sri Rama or sri Krishna projected desire in their action but got NOT attached. Ex: The most loving Radha of Virdhavan was just left abruptly by Sri Krishna while going with Akruura to Mathura. Sri Krishna only compares Radha with Yudhava on subject of devotion. Even Sant Naradh fails in devotion on this comparision. Sri Rama loved so much mother Seetha, but when neccessity came HE sent her away to forest. Sri Lakshman was sent out of Ayodhiya by Sri Rama at one last instance. The desires were only projected but not attached to the mind. When this can be achived then there is no sorrow even if one has to die, just like Tapovan Maharaj of Himalayas who invited death. Another example: Sri Rama was quite aware that kingdom and everyone around was illusion, by the teachings of HIS Guru Vasita teaching known as Yoga Vasista. So the moment Dasaratha told Sri Rama to quit the kingdom, HIS face was like just blossomed lotus says puran. Only when one expects results of Karma the trouble starts. Otherwise the Karma or desire has no effect even in dream Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Namasthey, As a result of the merits / demerits acquired from the past, a human birth is taken place here. He is born in the world with certain instincts vedantically called " Vasana " . One's desires are determined to enjoy / suffer the world is depending on the vasanas he carries with him. According to the in-hand qualities he yearns for the world's so called enjoyments through the 5 senses. As he grows, when particular desires become strong at various level of enjoyments he gets the pleasures / pains through the sense organs. He / she enjoys through his / her Eyes see, Ears hear, Toung tastes, skin touches, Nose smells. The eyes etc are the sense organs and the seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled are the sense objects which are wanted by him / her. These available only in the world. So long one is in the world he / she is bound / dependent. He / she misunderstands the enjoyments of the world as happiness or sufferings in the world as misery. Vedantically both are illusions. For a permanent happiness, one has to get free from these illusions and fully prepare oneself to leave these enjoyments for ever. There are various techniques prescribed by sciptures. Gita's declaration is that alone, one can realize even by repeating the word Geetha,Geetha,Geetha,Geetha till it become Thagee, Thagee, Thagee, Thagee which really means Tyaga, renunciation. Renunciate that which is miserable enjoyments, short- lived enjoyments available in the world bounded us as dependent. Shobha ------------------------------- Dear Shri Mike Simply stated, desire when fulfilled brings happiness and if not creates unhappiness wither in the form of unhappiness or misery or conflict in the minds of the person who desires. As stated in the Geetha, " Karmanyeva……….., ma phalashu kadachana " , when one does a thing- including desiring without anticipating the desired results, there is neither happiness or unhappiness. There will only be a sense of fulfillment of having done one's duty to ones best of ability. In our daily life, if one looks back objectively, one could discern times when Deeds done, without expectation of desired results, have not created a conflict of happiness or unhappiness. The least is a feeling either of having done one's duty since the results depend on various other factors. Personally, I have felt that one's life is a Vector diagram and the stability of the Life depends only on the intrinsic strength of the " self " . The strength develops in one's elf When one understands the life and its forces completely. Best regards, srl narasimhan ------------------------------ If we reason thoughtfully then we can see that desire is the cause of all miseries. Unfulfilled desires make us unhappy and this causes physical and emotional unease. Therefore we should do our duty and leave the rest to God if we want to be happy and lead a peaceful and spiritual life. Hari Shanker Deo ------------------------------ GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita, relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. FOR RESPONDER 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Re: Dependence -Shree Hari- Regarding the paste from 'sadhak insight' 24th February, 2009, Tuesday '.....because if we desire from others, desire happiness from others then we will have to become dependent. And `Dependent person is not happy even in dreams' " Paraadheen sapnehun such naahi " (RamCharitmanas (1:102:3)). Don't have any desire then all sorrows will come to an end' I would appreciate any comments from the learned Sadhaks to expand/debate this, as I sense Swamiji's statement addresses a major misconception in society at large. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- NEW POSTING Hari Om Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18 Texts 36 to 40 informs us about happiness: O best of the Bharatas, now please hear from Me about the three kinds of happiness which the conditioned soul enjoys, and by which he sometimes comes to the end of all distress. That which in the beginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectar and which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness in the mode of goodness. That happiness which is derived from contact of the senses with their objects and which appears like nectar at first but poison at the end is said to be of the nature of passion. And that happiness which is blind to self-realization, which is delusion from beginning to end and which arises from sleep, laziness and illusion is said to be of the nature of ignorance. From the above one can deduce that " as is the state of the mind so is the nature of one's happiness. " Thus, seeking happiness from another person (or mind) will fail. Bhagavan tells us about the Dull, the Passionate, and the Good mind. To the Dull mind, living in an utterly deluded world of make-believe is happiness. He lives in an artificial state of bliss.The constancy because of which a foolish man does not abandon anger, violence, fear, grief, depression, lust, possessiveness, egoism, and also arrogance and conceit, that fortitude, O Partha. is Tamasic (Dull). To the rajasic nature of mind, happiness consists of sensations and excitements - at first it is like nectar, but in the end it becomes poison. The fortitude, O Arjuna, by which one holds fast to duty, pleasure and wealth, from attachment and craving for the fruits-of- action, that fortitude, O Partha, is rajasic (Passionate). For the Good or sattvic state of mind, the happiness is like poison at first then like nectar at the end. When the happiness is unconscious then it results in a condition of bliss. Bliss is not of the mind, but in the supreme state of unconsciousness the experience of bliss comes. One is detached from that which appears to be poison. The man of sattvic quality is detached in the midst of favorable conditions of life and so in the end he is supremely happy. It is happiness born of detachment and not dependent on another human being. Seeking happiness from others results in disappointment and unhappiness. Cultivate and nurture the sattvic state of mind that will lead to Eternal Happiness - the happiness that endures, not the one that decays in the process of time or is dependent on the whims and fancies of others.. How can we develop this Sattvic state of mind? One has to return to the original rather than the acquired nature of the mind. We must observe the mind by conducting an inquiry into the processes of the mind that would enable us to see how we have built up an acquired nature due to which we are caught up in the Para-dharna and have lost sight of the Svadharma. To become aware of the acquired nature is to start the process of being free from it. To discover one's original nature is to be initiated into a new dimension of living, a revolutionary event in the journey of life. By the Grace of Bhagavan, I will have a another post on this topic in the next day or two. Hari Bol Krishna S. Narinedath ------------------------- Spiritual process/journey is know the self and its Natural State - Complete Maun (all levels) and Anand...Self is complete in itself. Question is who is this who desires and desires happiness from others.....? This is one who has to go to uncover the self and its expression of joy and happiness which is not dependence on anything......is unconditional.... At another level, nothing wrong with having desires......but why have a small desire.... desire the best......lord himself.....be one with Him.... Sushil Jain ---------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Indeed the world at large seeks happiness from others. A human has no right to do so, in fact, nor any need. Result: Struggle ! Because the other one also seeks happiness from you - now two pick pocketers are opposite each other. Who can cheat whom? This is how the sorrows and pains find ways into your life. You are depending upon that thing which is not at all in your control- others ! You are ignoring that thing which is under your control- Self. Happiness lies within you, not outside ! But who heeds? A human is SAT-CHIT-ANANDA himself. He is immortal but seeks to be so depending upon mortal body- dependence on others ! He is all knowing himself- if he knows self , he has known every thing- but seeks to be knowlng through the world, history/geography and so on. A human is himself 'sahaj sukhraasi' but seeks to derive happiness from others- health/wealth/etc. In all three cases he depends or rather foolishly chooses to depend over others - and pays the penalty in the form of sorrows and pains ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------ -Shree Hari- Dear Sadhaks, Sathyanarayanji, reflected my thoughts when asking the original question. How many times does one here things like, " After all I did for her, she just throws dirty water in my face, yes that's the thanks I get " ? Or, " After all my efforts not a word of thanks " . The emotions are there, anger, pain, feelings of betrayal, and so on. I think I have seen reference to 'Duty, Work', good way of looking at such things, doing what is right, because it is Right, ones Duty. A good way to detach from the outcome, i.e. one has done the best they can.(Job done!). With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) ------------------------- Dear Krishna's Devotees, Hare Krishna Let us discuss " Desire " first. There are two types of desires. Worldly desire and Godly desire. Worldly desires should be abandoned all the way. Kam Janami Te Mulam Samkalpat kil Jayate Na twaam Sankalpayishyami Katham te me bhavishyati ! Means-- " O Kaam! I know your root/ source of origin.You are born of desire. And I will not harbour any desire so how you will take birth. " Here desire is rejected entirely but desire to attain spiritual progression is very much essential to make life meaningful. Therefore, whatever we do, it should be offered to God. Action should be in name of God. Yat Karoshi Yad Ashnashi Yad juhoshi Dadaashi Yat Yat Tapasyasi Kaunteya Tat Kurushwa mad arpanam (Shri Gita 9/27) Whatever we do, it should be in the name of God. Desire should be to attain God as Arjuna wanted/ desired Krishna only and Duryodhana desired Army/Narayani Sena from Krishna. Ultimately, Duryodhana lost everything including his own life and Arjuna obtained everything health, wealth and husband of Goddess of Wealth/Lakshmi that is Krishna himself. Hare Krishna Mahesh Sharma -------------------------- ------------------------------- Dear sadak, Child below age of 6/7 does it not depend upon mother? Is it not very happy? What is the reason? Only mind development. Child thinks only for that moment, not of future or past. It thinks of present what it can see and cries for it. Like ice cream. That too the cry is momentary and the incidents are not remembered. Our problem is I-ness. We dont surrender to GOD honestly. If your child dies why do you cry? You know death is certain but time uncertain. Did not Samartha Ramadoss lost his child, but remained calm saying that all is HIS will? Dont say he was saint. Then you are in Samsar circle. You have to blame your self for not raising your knowledge to that level. We collect and store many matters that which are not even important? The news TV, the same thing again and again politics, murder, ETc. Do we stop watching TV? Know we are spoiling our children helplessly. One feeds child in front of TV and when the child grows, we want it not to see the TV. Why worry about next door when your home itself needs attention. One can depend on electricity. But if power fails there should not be even murmur. Then the dependancy is not attached to mind. So with all. Pardon me for my statements. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sathyanarayanaji, One point of clarification... The word used by Swamiji is not " depend " as you has indicated, but " desire " . A child needing his mother is not a desire, it is an essential need " aavashyaktaah " . May be other sadhaks can elaborate on this point. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING From 'Sadhakon Ke Prati'(code 418), page 1-2 A very important thing for sadhak is to be - free of any dependency. To feel necessity of body, money, person, country, time etc. is only their dependence. One who has more money, knowledge, intellect, power etc., he can serve world more- sadhak should wipe out this delusion. Whatever money, knowledge, power etc. sadhak has, from that only he can perform biggest of the biggest charity to serve the world. Whatever we don't have, we are not liable to give it anyone. God-attainment does not hapen through things, but by renouncement. Thing which are created-destroyed - To consider their necessity and one's success by taking their shelter is a grave mistake. Even in dreams sadhak should never take the shelter of created-destructible things. Whatever money, property, family etc. a sadhak has, with their presence he should root out the feeling of their necessity from his inner faculty. By doing so a sadhak's progress is natural. To take shelter of created-destructible things, to accept their dependence is a very big obstacle in all the three paths - Karmayog, Gyanyog, Bhaktiyog. Even though the embodied soul is a fragment of eternal, complete in itself, flawless Parmatma yet he considers necessity of created-destructible things then how can he ever know Pramatma? Therefore, money etc. is mine and is very necessary for me - sadhak should wipe out this sentiment. It is a common notion among masses that whichever thing, situation, ability etc. is not present now, if I get it then I will make progress. He assumes his progress in insentient created-destructible things. For instance, if he doesn't have money, then by earning money and becoming a millionaire he thinks that I have made huge progress, if he is illiterate then by studying and becoming a knowledgeable person, he thinks that I have made great progress, etc. In reality, this is not progress, but great ruin. That thing which did not exist before, it will also not exist afterwards. Self is ALWAYS existent but still, considering one's progress by transient things is only betraying oneself. That Parmatma which is forever and which will exist forever, attaining Him is the only actual progress, to be made by human. That thing which doesn’t exist now, even if we attain it, then for how long will it be with us? That which is presently " NOT " , in the end it will turn into " NOT " . Attaining such created-destructible things and considering big because of it is only their dependency. Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------- Hare Krishna, Swamiji was very right on this matter. We should restrain our self from desires. Let God desire, if He thinks that we are fit to do some thing for some one, he will give us the 'sphurna' to do that work. He has His program fixed, we are not supposed to create any disturbance or imbalance in His program. Desiring for self or others will create an imbalance in His program. Krishna had clearly told Arjuna that all these people whom you see are already dead. We are just puppets and our duty is to follow the orders of our master. Ashok Goenka -------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Dependency on anything of this world inevitably brings unhappiness as we all know too well! Problem is not the things of the world, nor with or in them, but dependency on them to keep one happy is the problem. Things, including relationships to people and properties, etc cannot be depended upon because things change, people change, the one who desires to be happy also changes, oscillating between boredom and happiness. In a constantly changing environment, how can one find happiness? Another point is that as long as one desires to be happy, one is already acknowledging unhappiness with present state of affairs. Such acknowledgments keep the mind chasing happiness in whatever one finds, thus breeding more dependencies and disappointments. It may be noted that worldly objects in themselves have no power to make us happy or unhappy! We endow them the power to do so and suffer in the process. We become so much dependent that we even dream about them! It is better to find out what causes unhappiness. Dependency on things perceived/conceived externally to us do seem to give us happiness fooling us to seek more and more! But if one looks closely every time one is happy, it is because the desire has ceased temporarily upon obtaining the desired objects or satisfaction we were looking for! It is temporary cessation of desire and subsequent state of desire- less-ness that brought us happiness, not the objects as they may seem to be. Such desire-less state has to lie within me only. As Jesus says " The Kingdom of Happiness lies within you " ! Why don't we find the Kingdom? Due to identification with limited body-mind, a lack is inherent in the unvalidated sense of " me " causing it to desire incessantly to be whole, adequate, significant, lacking nothing! Desire and " me " are same, not two, and this " me " not knowing this false duality, resists or tries to hold on to the desire, a state of everlasting struggle and conflict! The conflict between " me " and the desire that " me " is trying to control, is not apparent to most of us and thus goes on perpetually. We need to see very clearly that this is only an artificial duality between " what is " and " what should be " in the intrinsic Wholeness I already AM! Note also, I, Wholeness, Consciousness, Reality are one and the same, not many equivalents! This Clarity will wipe out the artificial duality from the mind and WHOLENESS gets hold of such a mind! Do we need to say Happiness reins in that Mind? Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt ------------------ Dear sadaks, To do any Karma the desire is the cause. While doing that Karma the results of such Karma has to be borne in mind it is not for the doer. Now that you desired to know the answer to your question, there can be praises or critics. Both are to be unnoticed or better unaware. Further if the desire got fulfilled or suspended or not acquired the Kartha (doer) should remain unattached. In such case there will not be sorrow or pain what so ever. Sri Rama or sri Krishna projected desire in their action but got NOT attached. Ex: The most loving Radha of Virdhavan was just left abruptly by Sri Krishna while going with Akruura to Mathura. Sri Krishna only compares Radha with Yudhava on subject of devotion. Even Sant Naradh fails in devotion on this comparision. Sri Rama loved so much mother Seetha, but when neccessity came HE sent her away to forest. Sri Lakshman was sent out of Ayodhiya by Sri Rama at one last instance. The desires were only projected but not attached to the mind. When this can be achived then there is no sorrow even if one has to die, just like Tapovan Maharaj of Himalayas who invited death. Another example: Sri Rama was quite aware that kingdom and everyone around was illusion, by the teachings of HIS Guru Vasita teaching known as Yoga Vasista. So the moment Dasaratha told Sri Rama to quit the kingdom, HIS face was like just blossomed lotus says puran. Only when one expects results of Karma the trouble starts. Otherwise the Karma or desire has no effect even in dream Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Namasthey, As a result of the merits / demerits acquired from the past, a human birth is taken place here. He is born in the world with certain instincts vedantically called " Vasana " . One's desires are determined to enjoy / suffer the world is depending on the vasanas he carries with him. According to the in-hand qualities he yearns for the world's so called enjoyments through the 5 senses. As he grows, when particular desires become strong at various level of enjoyments he gets the pleasures / pains through the sense organs. He / she enjoys through his / her Eyes see, Ears hear, Toung tastes, skin touches, Nose smells. The eyes etc are the sense organs and the seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled are the sense objects which are wanted by him / her. These available only in the world. So long one is in the world he / she is bound / dependent. He / she misunderstands the enjoyments of the world as happiness or sufferings in the world as misery. Vedantically both are illusions. For a permanent happiness, one has to get free from these illusions and fully prepare oneself to leave these enjoyments for ever. There are various techniques prescribed by sciptures. Gita's declaration is that alone, one can realize even by repeating the word Geetha,Geetha,Geetha,Geetha till it become Thagee, Thagee, Thagee, Thagee which really means Tyaga, renunciation. Renunciate that which is miserable enjoyments, short- lived enjoyments available in the world bounded us as dependent. Shobha ------------------------------- Dear Shri Mike Simply stated, desire when fulfilled brings happiness and if not creates unhappiness wither in the form of unhappiness or misery or conflict in the minds of the person who desires. As stated in the Geetha, " Karmanyeva……….., ma phalashu kadachana " , when one does a thing- including desiring without anticipating the desired results, there is neither happiness or unhappiness. There will only be a sense of fulfillment of having done one's duty to ones best of ability. In our daily life, if one looks back objectively, one could discern times when Deeds done, without expectation of desired results, have not created a conflict of happiness or unhappiness. The least is a feeling either of having done one's duty since the results depend on various other factors. Personally, I have felt that one's life is a Vector diagram and the stability of the Life depends only on the intrinsic strength of the " self " . The strength develops in one's elf When one understands the life and its forces completely. Best regards, srl narasimhan ------------------------------ If we reason thoughtfully then we can see that desire is the cause of all miseries. Unfulfilled desires make us unhappy and this causes physical and emotional unease. Therefore we should do our duty and leave the rest to God if we want to be happy and lead a peaceful and spiritual life. Hari Shanker Deo ------------------------------ GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita, relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. FOR RESPONDER 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 -Shree Hari- Regarding the paste from 'sadhak insight' 24th February, 2009, Tuesday '.....because if we desire from others, desire happiness from others then we will have to become dependent. And `Dependent person is not happy even in dreams' " Paraadheen sapnehun such naahi " (RamCharitmanas (1:102:3)). Don't have any desire then all sorrows will come to an end' I would appreciate any comments from the learned Sadhaks to expand/debate this, as I sense Swamiji's statement addresses a major misconception in society at large. With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) -------------------------------- NEW POSTING Dear Sadaks, True independence is dependence on only GOD. Inspite of immense suffering that rishis and sadhus underwent, now let us see how they faced them. 1) Of late one sant Pattinathar was sitting at night in a small temple under darkness. He is all by himself alone. Thieves carrying jewels being chased by king servants, thrown them inside the temple to escape being caught red hand. The king servant passing by temple noticed glitter inside temple, took torch and found this saint with diamond necklace on his neck. When thiefs throw the jewels the necklace happens to cling on the nack of saint. Sant was taken to king who order to be killed by piercing him on a sharp wooded pillar. Sadaks, the sant had no pragna while sitting in temple nor cared to remove the jewel, nor even answered the king. Sant only looked up and only thought of Bagavan Shiva. The wooded pillar went on flames. King astonished and became sant disciple renouncing his kingdom. The king as sant first went to Kailash and later the sant Pattinathar. 2) Ramana Rishi was sleeping alone a robber entered his room and searched for money. Finding no money in anger he slapped Ramana who showed him his other cheek. The news spread, the british chief of Thriruvannamali rounded up all robbers and made parade in front of Ramana. Ramana pointed out the robber and said,'' " this was the man whom I (Ramana) slapped in my previous birth, so let him go free " . 3) Abirami Battar was only saying words about mother Shiva Parvathy. Some woman complained to king who arrested him for absolutely no fault. The king asked Battar what was the next day (day-Star). He said Poornima. But actually it was NO moon day. So the king ordered that Battar be killed from height under fire. When Battar was above fire HE sang Abirami Andhaythi, the fire disappeared and to suprise the full moon appeared in the sky. King totally dismayed. Fell at Battar feet. 4) Great Saint Ramanujar` s wife could not co-operate in feeding Vaishavites. Ramanujar depending on wife was burden and so he quitely took his wife with a single murmur and left her in his father in law house. HE later was a great Vaishnavite scholar. He never insulted or abused his wife even later part of his life. He knew that how Bagavan gave. Sadaks this is total surrender to God, unattached to consequences that may come or go. Kaykeyi was very attached to sri Rama, but a little words of Hunch back lady caused havoc. So living in this world is dependent of Panch boothas, depending on Sastras, prakurthi or Apparaprakurthi. Surrender to Sri Krishna leave what may come or Go. This being so , I do not want to stress on people living in in large society with family bandages. These examples are only for Sadhaks. This is independence. Jai Sri Krishna B. Sathyanarayan ------------------------- Dear Sadhak There is difference in approach.We are all house holders having a family.We can not act like Sanyasin.Without any desires we can not survive in this universe.All old persons ought to have some purpose in life.This is an element of desire. We should not have more expectations and pursuit after fulfilling desires including sex life, collecting money and even having maya for all. What God wishes is that even staying in human form find some time to offer prayers to Him and even do some social work for the community Then God will take care for us.Try to control desires and ambitions in life. This view from household people Truly yours S S Bhatt Shree Hari Ram Ram Bhattji, We are only SADHAKS. The greatest obstacles in spiritual path is considering yourself to be a householder, or a kaami, or a intelligent, a brahmana, a brahmachari etc. says Swamiji (please read previous sadhak postings on this subject) There is a difference between " Desires " and " Avashyaktaa " (essential needs). Essentials needs are things like - air, water, some basic food, knowledge of True Self, God etc. Longing / Attainment of Paramatma is an " Avashyaktaa " i.e " Essential Need " not a " Desire " . You may read previous " Sadhak " postings on this topic and if needing clarification, you may ask the group. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Bhagavad Gita Chapter 18 Texts 36 to 40 informs us about happiness: O best of the Bharatas, now please hear from Me about the three kinds of happiness which the conditioned soul enjoys, and by which he sometimes comes to the end of all distress. That which in the beginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectar and which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness in the mode of goodness. That happiness which is derived from contact of the senses with their objects and which appears like nectar at first but poison at the end is said to be of the nature of passion. And that happiness which is blind to self-realization, which is delusion from beginning to end and which arises from sleep, laziness and illusion is said to be of the nature of ignorance. From the above one can deduce that " as is the state of the mind so is the nature of one's happiness. " Thus, seeking happiness from another person (or mind) will fail. Bhagavan tells us about the Dull, the Passionate, and the Good mind. To the Dull mind, living in an utterly deluded world of make-believe is happiness. He lives in an artificial state of bliss.The constancy because of which a foolish man does not abandon anger, violence, fear, grief, depression, lust, possessiveness, egoism, and also arrogance and conceit, that fortitude, O Partha. is Tamasic (Dull). To the rajasic nature of mind, happiness consists of sensations and excitements - at first it is like nectar, but in the end it becomes poison. The fortitude, O Arjuna, by which one holds fast to duty, pleasure and wealth, from attachment and craving for the fruits-of- action, that fortitude, O Partha, is rajasic (Passionate). For the Good or sattvic state of mind, the happiness is like poison at first then like nectar at the end. When the happiness is unconscious then it results in a condition of bliss. Bliss is not of the mind, but in the supreme state of unconsciousness the experience of bliss comes. One is detached from that which appears to be poison. The man of sattvic quality is detached in the midst of favorable conditions of life and so in the end he is supremely happy. It is happiness born of detachment and not dependent on another human being. Seeking happiness from others results in disappointment and unhappiness. Cultivate and nurture the sattvic state of mind that will lead to Eternal Happiness - the happiness that endures, not the one that decays in the process of time or is dependent on the whims and fancies of others.. How can we develop this Sattvic state of mind? One has to return to the original rather than the acquired nature of the mind. We must observe the mind by conducting an inquiry into the processes of the mind that would enable us to see how we have built up an acquired nature due to which we are caught up in the Para-dharna and have lost sight of the Svadharma. To become aware of the acquired nature is to start the process of being free from it. To discover one's original nature is to be initiated into a new dimension of living, a revolutionary event in the journey of life. By the Grace of Bhagavan, I will have a another post on this topic in the next day or two. Hari Bol Krishna S. Narinedath ------------------------- Spiritual process/journey is know the self and its Natural State - Complete Maun (all levels) and Anand...Self is complete in itself. Question is who is this who desires and desires happiness from others.....? This is one who has to go to uncover the self and its expression of joy and happiness which is not dependence on anything......is unconditional.... At another level, nothing wrong with having desires......but why have a small desire.... desire the best......lord himself.....be one with Him.... Sushil Jain ---------------------------- -------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Hari Om Indeed the world at large seeks happiness from others. A human has no right to do so, in fact, nor any need. Result: Struggle ! Because the other one also seeks happiness from you - now two pick pocketers are opposite each other. Who can cheat whom? This is how the sorrows and pains find ways into your life. You are depending upon that thing which is not at all in your control- others ! You are ignoring that thing which is under your control- Self. Happiness lies within you, not outside ! But who heeds? A human is SAT-CHIT-ANANDA himself. He is immortal but seeks to be so depending upon mortal body- dependence on others ! He is all knowing himself- if he knows self , he has known every thing- but seeks to be knowlng through the world, history/geography and so on. A human is himself 'sahaj sukhraasi' but seeks to derive happiness from others- health/wealth/etc. In all three cases he depends or rather foolishly chooses to depend over others - and pays the penalty in the form of sorrows and pains ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------------ -Shree Hari- Dear Sadhaks, Sathyanarayanji, reflected my thoughts when asking the original question. How many times does one here things like, " After all I did for her, she just throws dirty water in my face, yes that's the thanks I get " ? Or, " After all my efforts not a word of thanks " . The emotions are there, anger, pain, feelings of betrayal, and so on. I think I have seen reference to 'Duty, Work', good way of looking at such things, doing what is right, because it is Right, ones Duty. A good way to detach from the outcome, i.e. one has done the best they can.(Job done!). With Respect and Divine Love, Mike (Keenor) ------------------------- Dear Krishna's Devotees, Hare Krishna Let us discuss " Desire " first. There are two types of desires. Worldly desire and Godly desire. Worldly desires should be abandoned all the way. Kam Janami Te Mulam Samkalpat kil Jayate Na twaam Sankalpayishyami Katham te me bhavishyati ! Means-- " O Kaam! I know your root/ source of origin.You are born of desire. And I will not harbour any desire so how you will take birth. " Here desire is rejected entirely but desire to attain spiritual progression is very much essential to make life meaningful. Therefore, whatever we do, it should be offered to God. Action should be in name of God. Yat Karoshi Yad Ashnashi Yad juhoshi Dadaashi Yat Yat Tapasyasi Kaunteya Tat Kurushwa mad arpanam (Shri Gita 9/27) Whatever we do, it should be in the name of God. Desire should be to attain God as Arjuna wanted/ desired Krishna only and Duryodhana desired Army/Narayani Sena from Krishna. Ultimately, Duryodhana lost everything including his own life and Arjuna obtained everything health, wealth and husband of Goddess of Wealth/Lakshmi that is Krishna himself. Hare Krishna Mahesh Sharma -------------------------- ------------------------------- Dear sadak, Child below age of 6/7 does it not depend upon mother? Is it not very happy? What is the reason? Only mind development. Child thinks only for that moment, not of future or past. It thinks of present what it can see and cries for it. Like ice cream. That too the cry is momentary and the incidents are not remembered. Our problem is I-ness. We dont surrender to GOD honestly. If your child dies why do you cry? You know death is certain but time uncertain. Did not Samartha Ramadoss lost his child, but remained calm saying that all is HIS will? Dont say he was saint. Then you are in Samsar circle. You have to blame your self for not raising your knowledge to that level. We collect and store many matters that which are not even important? The news TV, the same thing again and again politics, murder, ETc. Do we stop watching TV? Know we are spoiling our children helplessly. One feeds child in front of TV and when the child grows, we want it not to see the TV. Why worry about next door when your home itself needs attention. One can depend on electricity. But if power fails there should not be even murmur. Then the dependancy is not attached to mind. So with all. Pardon me for my statements. Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sathyanarayanaji, One point of clarification... The word used by Swamiji is not " depend " as you has indicated, but " desire " . A child needing his mother is not a desire, it is an essential need " aavashyaktaah " . May be other sadhaks can elaborate on this point. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------- PRIOR POSTING From 'Sadhakon Ke Prati'(code 418), page 1-2 A very important thing for sadhak is to be - free of any dependency. To feel necessity of body, money, person, country, time etc. is only their dependence. One who has more money, knowledge, intellect, power etc., he can serve world more- sadhak should wipe out this delusion. Whatever money, knowledge, power etc. sadhak has, from that only he can perform biggest of the biggest charity to serve the world. Whatever we don't have, we are not liable to give it anyone. God-attainment does not hapen through things, but by renouncement. Thing which are created-destroyed - To consider their necessity and one's success by taking their shelter is a grave mistake. Even in dreams sadhak should never take the shelter of created-destructible things. Whatever money, property, family etc. a sadhak has, with their presence he should root out the feeling of their necessity from his inner faculty. By doing so a sadhak's progress is natural. To take shelter of created-destructible things, to accept their dependence is a very big obstacle in all the three paths - Karmayog, Gyanyog, Bhaktiyog. Even though the embodied soul is a fragment of eternal, complete in itself, flawless Parmatma yet he considers necessity of created-destructible things then how can he ever know Pramatma? Therefore, money etc. is mine and is very necessary for me - sadhak should wipe out this sentiment. It is a common notion among masses that whichever thing, situation, ability etc. is not present now, if I get it then I will make progress. He assumes his progress in insentient created-destructible things. For instance, if he doesn't have money, then by earning money and becoming a millionaire he thinks that I have made huge progress, if he is illiterate then by studying and becoming a knowledgeable person, he thinks that I have made great progress, etc. In reality, this is not progress, but great ruin. That thing which did not exist before, it will also not exist afterwards. Self is ALWAYS existent but still, considering one's progress by transient things is only betraying oneself. That Parmatma which is forever and which will exist forever, attaining Him is the only actual progress, to be made by human. That thing which doesn’t exist now, even if we attain it, then for how long will it be with us? That which is presently " NOT " , in the end it will turn into " NOT " . Attaining such created-destructible things and considering big because of it is only their dependency. Hare Krishna Varun P. Paprunia ------------------------- Hare Krishna, Swamiji was very right on this matter. We should restrain our self from desires. Let God desire, if He thinks that we are fit to do some thing for some one, he will give us the 'sphurna' to do that work. He has His program fixed, we are not supposed to create any disturbance or imbalance in His program. Desiring for self or others will create an imbalance in His program. Krishna had clearly told Arjuna that all these people whom you see are already dead. We are just puppets and our duty is to follow the orders of our master. Ashok Goenka -------------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Dependency on anything of this world inevitably brings unhappiness as we all know too well! Problem is not the things of the world, nor with or in them, but dependency on them to keep one happy is the problem. Things, including relationships to people and properties, etc cannot be depended upon because things change, people change, the one who desires to be happy also changes, oscillating between boredom and happiness. In a constantly changing environment, how can one find happiness? Another point is that as long as one desires to be happy, one is already acknowledging unhappiness with present state of affairs. Such acknowledgments keep the mind chasing happiness in whatever one finds, thus breeding more dependencies and disappointments. It may be noted that worldly objects in themselves have no power to make us happy or unhappy! We endow them the power to do so and suffer in the process. We become so much dependent that we even dream about them! It is better to find out what causes unhappiness. Dependency on things perceived/conceived externally to us do seem to give us happiness fooling us to seek more and more! But if one looks closely every time one is happy, it is because the desire has ceased temporarily upon obtaining the desired objects or satisfaction we were looking for! It is temporary cessation of desire and subsequent state of desire- less-ness that brought us happiness, not the objects as they may seem to be. Such desire-less state has to lie within me only. As Jesus says " The Kingdom of Happiness lies within you " ! Why don't we find the Kingdom? Due to identification with limited body-mind, a lack is inherent in the unvalidated sense of " me " causing it to desire incessantly to be whole, adequate, significant, lacking nothing! Desire and " me " are same, not two, and this " me " not knowing this false duality, resists or tries to hold on to the desire, a state of everlasting struggle and conflict! The conflict between " me " and the desire that " me " is trying to control, is not apparent to most of us and thus goes on perpetually. We need to see very clearly that this is only an artificial duality between " what is " and " what should be " in the intrinsic Wholeness I already AM! Note also, I, Wholeness, Consciousness, Reality are one and the same, not many equivalents! This Clarity will wipe out the artificial duality from the mind and WHOLENESS gets hold of such a mind! Do we need to say Happiness reins in that Mind? Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt ------------------ Dear sadaks, To do any Karma the desire is the cause. While doing that Karma the results of such Karma has to be borne in mind it is not for the doer. Now that you desired to know the answer to your question, there can be praises or critics. Both are to be unnoticed or better unaware. Further if the desire got fulfilled or suspended or not acquired the Kartha (doer) should remain unattached. In such case there will not be sorrow or pain what so ever. Sri Rama or sri Krishna projected desire in their action but got NOT attached. Ex: The most loving Radha of Virdhavan was just left abruptly by Sri Krishna while going with Akruura to Mathura. Sri Krishna only compares Radha with Yudhava on subject of devotion. Even Sant Naradh fails in devotion on this comparision. Sri Rama loved so much mother Seetha, but when neccessity came HE sent her away to forest. Sri Lakshman was sent out of Ayodhiya by Sri Rama at one last instance. The desires were only projected but not attached to the mind. When this can be achived then there is no sorrow even if one has to die, just like Tapovan Maharaj of Himalayas who invited death. Another example: Sri Rama was quite aware that kingdom and everyone around was illusion, by the teachings of HIS Guru Vasita teaching known as Yoga Vasista. So the moment Dasaratha told Sri Rama to quit the kingdom, HIS face was like just blossomed lotus says puran. Only when one expects results of Karma the trouble starts. Otherwise the Karma or desire has no effect even in dream Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Namasthey, As a result of the merits / demerits acquired from the past, a human birth is taken place here. He is born in the world with certain instincts vedantically called " Vasana " . One's desires are determined to enjoy / suffer the world is depending on the vasanas he carries with him. According to the in-hand qualities he yearns for the world's so called enjoyments through the 5 senses. As he grows, when particular desires become strong at various level of enjoyments he gets the pleasures / pains through the sense organs. He / she enjoys through his / her Eyes see, Ears hear, Toung tastes, skin touches, Nose smells. The eyes etc are the sense organs and the seen, heard, tasted, touched and smelled are the sense objects which are wanted by him / her. These available only in the world. So long one is in the world he / she is bound / dependent. He / she misunderstands the enjoyments of the world as happiness or sufferings in the world as misery. Vedantically both are illusions. For a permanent happiness, one has to get free from these illusions and fully prepare oneself to leave these enjoyments for ever. There are various techniques prescribed by sciptures. Gita's declaration is that alone, one can realize even by repeating the word Geetha,Geetha,Geetha,Geetha till it become Thagee, Thagee, Thagee, Thagee which really means Tyaga, renunciation. Renunciate that which is miserable enjoyments, short- lived enjoyments available in the world bounded us as dependent. Shobha ------------------------------- Dear Shri Mike Simply stated, desire when fulfilled brings happiness and if not creates unhappiness wither in the form of unhappiness or misery or conflict in the minds of the person who desires. As stated in the Geetha, " Karmanyeva……….., ma phalashu kadachana " , when one does a thing- including desiring without anticipating the desired results, there is neither happiness or unhappiness. There will only be a sense of fulfillment of having done one's duty to ones best of ability. In our daily life, if one looks back objectively, one could discern times when Deeds done, without expectation of desired results, have not created a conflict of happiness or unhappiness. The least is a feeling either of having done one's duty since the results depend on various other factors. Personally, I have felt that one's life is a Vector diagram and the stability of the Life depends only on the intrinsic strength of the " self " . The strength develops in one's elf When one understands the life and its forces completely. Best regards, srl narasimhan ------------------------------ If we reason thoughtfully then we can see that desire is the cause of all miseries. Unfulfilled desires make us unhappy and this causes physical and emotional unease. Therefore we should do our duty and leave the rest to God if we want to be happy and lead a peaceful and spiritual life. Hari Shanker Deo ------------------------------ GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita, relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. FOR RESPONDER 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites. 7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc). 8. Do not personalize message 9. All responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non- sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only. Provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram We are clearing pending queue. this brings closure to this topic. Please do not reply. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram -----Shree Hari-Regarding the paste from 'sadhak insight' 24th February, 2009,Tuesday'.....because if we desire from others, desire happiness from othersthen we will have to become dependent. And `Dependent person is nothappy even in dreams' "Paraadheen sapnehun such naahi"(RamCharitmanas (1:102:3)).Don't have any desire then all sorrows will come to an end'I would appreciate any comments from the learned Sadhaks toexpand/debate this, as I sense Swamiji's statement addresses a majormisconception in society at large.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor)--------------------------------NEW POSTINGHari OmThere is a law in the world. That is- if we can desire for something that 'thing' exists. Else the very desire would not arise !!! There is another law ! Whatever we desire for, if we really get that, the desire ends ! Naturally !! Obviously!! E g, If we are thirsty, water must exist. Once we get water, the thirst goes !! The desire to get water extinguishes once we get water ( Pls don't argue that thirst arises again for water after lapse of time- that is another matter/issue. Take it as a one time explanatory example only ) .Now there is one third law. Once the desire and the element to fulfill desire meet, there is an end. No more desire. BUT If the desire still is there, that means you have not yet got what fulfills your desire,- IN REALITY !!! Coming to the serious and deep Question of Brother Mike Keenor - 'Dependence' -if there is a desire in us of 'dependence' - there must exist an element in the universe which fulfills that desire. Now what is that element? It has to be that element- after taking whose shelter , nothing remains to depend upon ! The very desire for dependence ends. We, in childhood, depend upon parents, teachers, etc. In youth upon education, ability, wealth, power, home etc. In old age upon children, wife, savings, health, stick, doctors etc. Subjects keep changing- dependence remains AS IT IS ! That means what? We have not in REALITY depended upon that element after depending upon nothing remains to be depended upon !! The very desire for dependence has extinguished ! If we still have that dependence, it means, we have not met with the element to fulfill that desire of dependence.There is a tendency in each one of us 'to depend upon'. There is a tendency in each one of us 'to get 'independent' ! For the former type- the 'surrender to God ' is the ultimate dependence. Belief/Trust/ Dependence upon Paramatma!! There 'independence' would manifest in us naturally, automatically ! Being 'imperishable' we must seek 'dependence' of 'imperishable' Paramatma only ! We suffer only because we 'depend' upon 'perishable' world !!Try depending upon HIM, the very desire for 'dependence' will extinguish !What do you say, O Child of Universe ? Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N BDear Sadhak We have to entrust our work and ourselves at the feet of God for liberation.But it does not mean we have to keep ourselves working in life. In my opinion if we plan to be happy we should try to do all our things ourselves and that is the only way to be happy.We should surrender ourselves to God with to final request to seek Him Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt----Jai HanumanDEPENDENCE !! There is no 'independence' in any worldly deed, Jee !! There is no 'dependence' in any Godly/Divine deed , Jee !! There is no need for any dependence, except that of Daddy the Great, Brother Mike !Saints, Dharma, Scriptures, Sadhaks, Sadhus, - all are unanimous, Jee ! We ALONE can realise God ! But none of the worldly achievements we can accomplish ALONE, Jee ! Where is the need of any other in - "O God ! I am yours. You are mine" ?? What have we got to do with living or dying? If We think about Paramatma, He thinks about us. Who is there to come in between? ( BG 4:11) ! Where is 'dependence' there, Dear Sadhaks ?Daddy is 'ours' ! There is no dependence there. There is no 'other' there . ( Manas Uttar 45/3). Even Satsanga is given by Daddy only ( Vinay Patrika 136/10) ! Jai Raamji Ki !!Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikalaPRIOR POSTINGDear Sadaks,True independence is dependence on only GOD. Inspite of immense suffering thatrishis and sadhus underwent, now let us see how they faced them.1) Of late one sant Pattinathar was sitting at night in a small temple underdarkness. He is all by himself alone. Thieves carrying jewels being chased byking servants, thrown them inside the temple to escape being caught red hand.The king servant passing by temple noticed glitter inside temple, took torch andfound this saint with diamond necklace on his neck. When thiefs throw the jewelsthe necklace happens to cling on the nack of saint. Sant was taken to king whoorder to be killed by piercing him on a sharp wooded pillar.Sadaks, the sant had no pragna while sitting in temple nor cared to remove thejewel, nor even answered the king. Sant only looked up and only thought ofBagavan Shiva. The wooded pillar went on flames. King astonished and became santdisciple renouncing his kingdom. The king as sant first went to Kailash andlater the sant Pattinathar.2) Ramana Rishi was sleeping alone a robber entered his room and searched formoney. Finding no money in anger he slapped Ramana who showed him his othercheek.The news spread, the british chief of Thriruvannamali rounded up all robbers andmade parade in front of Ramana. Ramana pointed out the robber and said,'' " thiswas the man whom I (Ramana) slapped in my previous birth, so let him go free".3) Abirami Battar was only saying words about mother Shiva Parvathy. Some womancomplained to king who arrested him for absolutely no fault. The king askedBattar what was the next day (day-Star). He said Poornima. But actually it wasNO moon day. So the king ordered that Battar be killed from height under fire.When Battar was above fire HE sang Abirami Andhaythi, the fire disappeared andto suprise the full moon appeared in the sky. King totally dismayed. Fell atBattar feet.4) Great Saint Ramanujar` s wife could not co-operate in feeding Vaishavites.Ramanujar depending on wife was burden and so he quitely took his wife with asingle murmur and left her in his father in law house. HE later was a greatVaishnavite scholar. He never insulted or abused his wife even later part of hislife. He knew that how Bagavan gave.Sadaks this is total surrender to God, unattached to consequences that may comeor go.Kaykeyi was very attached to sri Rama, but a little words of Hunch back ladycaused havoc. So living in this world is dependent of Panch boothas, dependingon Sastras, prakurthi or Apparaprakurthi.Surrender to Sri Krishna leave what may come or Go.This being so , I do not want to stress on people living in in large societywith family bandages. These examples are only for Sadhaks.This is independence.Jai Sri KrishnaB. Sathyanarayan-------------------------Dear SadhakThere is difference in approach.We are all house holders having a family.We cannot act like Sanyasin.Without any desires we can not survive in thisuniverse.All old persons ought to have some purpose in life.This is an elementof desire. We should not have more expectations and pursuit after fulfillingdesires including sex life, collecting money and even having maya for all.What God wishes is that even staying in human form find some time to offerprayers to Him and even do some social work for the community Then God will takecare for us.Try to control desires and ambitions in life. This view fromhousehold peopleTruly yoursS S BhattShree HariRam RamBhattji, We are only SADHAKS. The greatest obstacles in spiritual path isconsidering yourself to be a householder, or a kaami, or a intelligent, abrahmana, a brahmachari etc. says Swamiji (please read previous sadhak postingson this subject)There is a difference between "Desires" and "Avashyaktaa" (essential needs).Essentials needs are things like - air, water, some basic food, knowledge ofTrue Self, God etc. Longing / Attainment of Paramatma is an "Avashyaktaa" i.e"Essential Need" not a "Desire".You may read previous "Sadhak" postings on this topic and if needingclarification, you may ask the group.From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram RamPRIOR POSTINGHari OmBhagavad Gita Chapter 18 Texts 36 to 40 informs us about happiness:O best of the Bharatas, now please hear from Me about the threekinds of happiness which the conditioned soul enjoys, and by whichhe sometimes comes to the end of all distress. That which in thebeginning may be just like poison but at the end is just like nectarand which awakens one to self-realization is said to be happiness inthe mode of goodness.That happiness which is derived from contact of the senses withtheir objects and which appears like nectar at first but poison atthe end is said to be of the nature of passion.And that happiness which is blind to self-realization, which isdelusion from beginning to end and which arises from sleep, lazinessand illusion is said to be of the nature of ignorance.From the above one can deduce that "as is the state of the mind sois the nature of one's happiness." Thus, seeking happiness fromanother person (or mind) will fail. Bhagavan tells us about theDull, the Passionate, and the Good mind.To the Dull mind, living in an utterly deluded world of make-believeis happiness. He lives in an artificial state of bliss.Theconstancy because of which a foolish man does not abandon anger,violence, fear, grief, depression, lust, possessiveness, egoism,and also arrogance and conceit, that fortitude, O Partha. is Tamasic(Dull).To the rajasic nature of mind, happiness consists of sensations andexcitements - at first it is like nectar, but in the end it becomespoison. The fortitude, O Arjuna, by which one holds fast to duty,pleasure and wealth, from attachment and craving for the fruits-of-action, that fortitude, O Partha, is rajasic (Passionate).For the Good or sattvic state of mind, the happiness is like poisonat first then like nectar at the end. When the happiness isunconscious then it results in a condition of bliss. Bliss is not ofthe mind, but in the supreme state of unconsciousness the experienceof bliss comes. One is detached from that which appears to bepoison. The man of sattvic quality is detached in the midst offavorable conditions of life and so in the end he is supremelyhappy. It is happiness born of detachment and not dependent onanother human being.Seeking happiness from others results in disappointment andunhappiness. Cultivate and nurture the sattvic state of mind thatwill lead to Eternal Happiness - the happiness that endures, not theone that decays in the process of time or is dependent on the whimsand fancies of others..How can we develop this Sattvic state of mind? One has to return tothe original rather than the acquired nature of the mind. We mustobserve the mind by conducting an inquiry into the processes of themind that would enable us to see how we have built up an acquirednature due to which we are caught up in the Para-dharna and havelost sight of the Svadharma.To become aware of the acquired nature is to start the process ofbeing free from it. To discover one's original nature is to beinitiated into a new dimension of living, a revolutionary event inthe journey of life. By the Grace of Bhagavan, I will have a anotherpost on this topic in the next day or two.Hari BolKrishna S. Narinedath-------------------------Spiritual process/journey is know the self and its Natural State -Complete Maun (all levels)and Anand...Self is complete in itself.Question is who is this who desires and desires happiness fromothers.....?This is one who has to go to uncover the self and its expression ofjoy and happinesswhich is not dependence on anything......is unconditional....At another level, nothing wrong with having desires......but whyhave a small desire....desire the best......lord himself.....be one with Him....Sushil Jain---------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmIndeed the world at large seeks happiness from others. A human hasno right to do so, in fact, nor any need. Result: Struggle ! Becausethe other one also seeks happiness from you - now two pick pocketersare opposite each other. Who can cheat whom?This is how the sorrows and pains find ways into your life. You aredepending upon that thing which is not at all in your control-others ! You are ignoring that thing which is under your control-Self. Happiness lies within you, not outside ! But who heeds?A human is SAT-CHIT-ANANDA himself. He is immortal but seeks to beso depending upon mortal body- dependence on others ! He is allknowing himself- if he knows self , he has known every thing- butseeks to be knowlng through the world, history/geography and so on.A human is himself 'sahaj sukhraasi' but seeks to derive happinessfrom others- health/wealth/etc. In all three cases he depends orrather foolishly chooses to depend over others - and pays thepenalty in the form of sorrows and pains !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Shree Hari-Dear Sadhaks,Sathyanarayanji, reflected my thoughts when asking the originalquestion.How many times does one here things like, "After all I did for her,she just throws dirty water in my face, yes that's the thanks I get"?Or,"After all my efforts not a word of thanks".The emotions are there, anger, pain, feelings of betrayal, and so on.I think I have seen reference to 'Duty, Work', good way of looking atsuch things, doing what is right, because it is Right, ones Duty.A good way to detach from the outcome, i.e. one has done the bestthey can.(Jobdone!).With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor)-------------------------Dear Krishna's Devotees,Hare KrishnaLet us discuss "Desire" first. There are two types of desires.Worldly desireand Godly desire. Worldly desires should be abandoned all the way.Kam Janami Te Mulam Samkalpat kil JayateNa twaam Sankalpayishyami Katham te me bhavishyati !Means--"O Kaam! I know your root/ source of origin.You are born of desire.And I willnot harbour any desire so how you will take birth."Here desire is rejected entirely but desire to attain spiritualprogression is very much essential to make life meaningful.Therefore, whatever we do, it should be offered to God. Actionshould be in name of God.Yat Karoshi Yad Ashnashi Yad juhoshi Dadaashi YatYat Tapasyasi Kaunteya Tat Kurushwa mad arpanam (Shri Gita 9/27)Whatever we do, it should be in the name of God. Desire should beto attain God as Arjuna wanted/ desired Krishna only and Duryodhanadesired Army/Narayani Sena from Krishna. Ultimately, Duryodhana losteverything including his own life and Arjuna obtained everythinghealth, wealth and husband of Goddess of Wealth/Lakshmi that isKrishna himself.Hare KrishnaMahesh Sharma------------Dear sadak,Child below age of 6/7 does it not depend upon mother? Is it notvery happy? What is the reason? Only mind development. Child thinksonly for that moment, not of future or past. It thinks of presentwhat it can see and cries for it. Like ice cream. That too the cryis momentary and the incidents are not remembered.Our problem is I-ness. We dont surrender to GOD honestly. If yourchild dies why do you cry? You know death is certain but timeuncertain. Did not Samartha Ramadoss lost his child, but remainedcalm saying that all is HIS will? Dont say he was saint. Then youare in Samsar circle. You have to blame your self for not raisingyour knowledge to that level. We collect and store many matters thatwhich are not even important? The news TV, the same thing again andagain politics, murder, ETc. Do we stop watching TV? Know we arespoiling our children helplessly. One feeds child in front of TV andwhen the child grows, we want it not to see the TV. Why worry aboutnext door when your home itself needs attention.One can depend on electricity. But if power fails there should notbe even murmur. Then the dependancy is not attached to mind. So withall.Pardon me for my statements.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------Shree HariRam RamSathyanarayanaji, One point of clarification... The word used bySwamiji is not "depend" as you has indicated, but "desire". A childneeding his mother is not a desire, it is an essentialneed "aavashyaktaah". May be other sadhaks can elaborate on thispoint. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGFrom 'Sadhakon Ke Prati'(code 418), page 1-2A very important thing for sadhak is to be - free of any dependency.To feel necessity of body, money, person, country, time etc. is onlytheir dependence. One who has more money, knowledge, intellect,power etc., he can serve world more- sadhak should wipe out thisdelusion. Whatever money, knowledge, power etc. sadhak has, fromthat only he can perform biggest of the biggest charity to serve theworld. Whatever we don't have, we are not liable to give it anyone.God-attainment does not hapen through things, but by renouncement.Thing which are created-destroyed - To consider their necessity andone's success by taking their shelter is a grave mistake. Even indreams sadhak should never take the shelter of created-destructiblethings. Whatever money, property, family etc. a sadhak has, withtheir presence he should root out the feeling of their necessityfrom his inner faculty. By doing so a sadhak's progress is natural.To take shelter of created-destructible things, to accept theirdependence is a very big obstacle in all the three paths - Karmayog,Gyanyog, Bhaktiyog. Even though the embodied soul is a fragment ofeternal, complete in itself, flawless Parmatma yet he considersnecessity of created-destructible things then how can he ever knowPramatma? Therefore, money etc. is mine and is very necessary forme - sadhak should wipe out this sentiment.It is a common notion among masses that whichever thing, situation,ability etc. is not present now, if I get it then I will makeprogress. He assumes his progress in insentient created-destructiblethings. For instance, if he doesn't have money, then by earningmoney and becoming a millionaire he thinks that I have made hugeprogress, if he is illiterate then by studying and becoming aknowledgeable person, he thinks that I have made great progress,etc. In reality, this is not progress, but great ruin. That thingwhich did not exist before, it will also not exist afterwards. Selfis ALWAYS existent but still, considering one's progress bytransient things is only betraying oneself. That Parmatma which isforever and which will exist forever, attaining Him is the onlyactual progress, to be made by human. That thing which doesn’texist now, even if we attain it, then for how long will it be withus? That which is presently "NOT", in the end it will turninto "NOT". Attaining such created-destructible things andconsidering big because of it is only their dependency.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia-------------------------Hare Krishna,Swamiji was very right on this matter. We should restrain our selffrom desires. Let God desire, if He thinks that we are fit to dosome thing for some one, he will give us the 'sphurna' to do thatwork. He has His program fixed, we are not supposed to create anydisturbance or imbalance in His program. Desiring for self or otherswill create an imbalance in His program. Krishna had clearly toldArjuna that all these people whom you see are already dead. We arejust puppets and our duty is to follow the orders of our master.Ashok Goenka--------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dependency on anything of this world inevitably brings unhappinessas we all know too well! Problem is not the things of the world, norwith or in them, but dependency on them to keep one happy is theproblem. Things, including relationships to people and properties,etc cannot be depended upon because things change, people change,the one who desires to be happy also changes, oscillating betweenboredom and happiness. In a constantly changing environment, how canone find happiness?Another point is that as long as one desires to be happy, one isalready acknowledging unhappiness with present state of affairs.Such acknowledgments keep the mind chasing happiness in whatever onefinds, thus breeding more dependencies and disappointments.It may be noted that worldly objects in themselves have no power tomake us happy or unhappy! We endow them the power to do so andsuffer in the process. We become so much dependent that we evendream about them!It is better to find out what causes unhappiness. Dependency onthings perceived/conceived externally to us do seem to give ushappiness fooling us to seek more and more! But if one looks closelyevery time one is happy, it is because the desire has ceasedtemporarily upon obtaining the desired objects or satisfaction wewere looking for!It is temporary cessation of desire and subsequent state of desire-less-ness that brought us happiness, not the objects as they mayseem to be. Such desire-less state has to lie within me only. AsJesus says "The Kingdom of Happiness lies within you"!Why don't we find the Kingdom?Due to identification with limited body-mind, a lack is inherent inthe unvalidated sense of "me" causing it to desire incessantly to bewhole, adequate, significant, lacking nothing!Desire and "me" are same, not two, and this "me" not knowing thisfalse duality, resists or tries to hold on to the desire, a state ofeverlasting struggle and conflict!The conflict between "me" and the desire that "me" is trying tocontrol, is not apparent to most of us and thus goes onperpetually.We need to see very clearly that this is only an artificial dualitybetween "what is" and "what should be" in the intrinsic Wholeness Ialready AM! Note also, I, Wholeness, Consciousness, Reality are oneand the same, not many equivalents!This Clarity will wipe out the artificial duality from the mind andWHOLENESS gets hold of such a mind! Do we need to say Happinessreins in that Mind?Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt------------------Dear sadaks,To do any Karma the desire is the cause. While doing that Karma theresults of such Karma has to be borne in mind it is not for thedoer. Now that you desired to know the answer to your question,there can be praises or critics. Both are to be unnoticed or betterunaware. Further if the desire got fulfilled or suspended or notacquired the Kartha (doer) should remain unattached. In such casethere will not be sorrow or pain what so ever.Sri Rama or sri Krishna projected desire in their action but got NOTattached. Ex: The most loving Radha of Virdhavan was just leftabruptly by Sri Krishna while going with Akruura to Mathura. SriKrishna only compares Radha with Yudhava on subject of devotion.Even Sant Naradh fails in devotion on this comparision. Sri Ramaloved so much mother Seetha, but when neccessity came HE sent heraway to forest. Sri Lakshman was sent out of Ayodhiya by Sri Rama atone last instance. The desires were only projected but not attachedto the mind. When this can be achived then there is no sorrow evenif one has to die, just like Tapovan Maharaj of Himalayas whoinvited death. Another example: Sri Rama was quite aware thatkingdom and everyone around was illusion, by the teachings of HISGuru Vasita teaching known as Yoga Vasista. So the moment Dasarathatold Sri Rama to quit the kingdom, HIS face was like just blossomedlotus says puran. Only when one expects results of Karma the troublestarts. Otherwise the Karma or desire has no effect even in dreamJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------------------Namasthey,As a result of the merits / demerits acquired from the past, a humanbirth is taken place here. He is born in the world with certaininstincts vedantically called "Vasana". One's desires are determinedto enjoy / suffer the world is depending on the vasanas he carrieswith him. According to the in-hand qualities he yearns for theworld's so called enjoyments through the 5 senses. As he grows, whenparticular desires become strong at various level of enjoyments hegets the pleasures / pains through the sense organs. He / she enjoysthrough his / her Eyes see, Ears hear, Toung tastes, skin touches,Nose smells. The eyes etc are the sense organs and the seen, heard,tasted, touched and smelled are the sense objects which are wantedby him / her. These available only in the world. So long one is inthe world he / she is bound / dependent. He / she misunderstands theenjoyments of the world as happiness or sufferings in the world asmisery. Vedantically both are illusions. For a permanent happiness,one has to get free from these illusions and fully prepare oneselfto leave these enjoyments for ever. There are various techniquesprescribed by sciptures. Gita's declaration is that alone, one canrealize even by repeating the word Geetha,Geetha,Geetha,Geetha tillit become Thagee, Thagee, Thagee, Thagee which really means Tyaga,renunciation. Renunciate that which is miserable enjoyments, short-lived enjoyments available in the world bounded us as dependent.Shobha-------------------------------Dear Shri MikeSimply stated, desire when fulfilled brings happiness and ifnot creates unhappiness wither in the form of unhappiness or miseryor conflict in the minds of the person who desires.As stated in the Geetha, "Karmanyeva……….., ma phalashukadachana",when one does a thing- including desiring withoutanticipating the desiredresults, there is neither happiness or unhappiness.There will only be asense of fulfillment of having done one's duty to onesbest of ability.In our daily life, if one looks back objectively, onecould discern times whenDeeds done, without expectation of desired results, havenot created a conflictof happiness or unhappiness. The least is a feelingeither of having done one'sduty since the results depend on various other factors.Personally, I have felt that one's life is a Vectordiagram and the stability of theLife depends only on the intrinsic strength of the "self".The strength develops in one's elfWhen one understands the life and its forces completely.Best regards,srl narasimhan------------------------------If we reason thoughtfully then we can see that desire is the causeof all miseries. Unfulfilled desires make us unhappy and this causesphysical and emotional unease. Therefore we should do our duty andleave the rest to God if we want to be happy and lead a peaceful andspiritual life.Hari Shanker Deo------------------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant tomotivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group'sprimary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.FOR RESPONDER1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka'stime.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.