How to Advance Spiritually and Live in Harmony when Spouse has Worldly Interests?

March 23, 2009

If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live a

sadhakas life, unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants, trying to

follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting

regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. How should she

advance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commiting

a sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is all

temporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.

Komal

==========================================

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER

1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,

relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to

motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path

2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

3. Only one question at a time.

4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's

primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

FOR RESPONDER

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's

time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites.

7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).

8. Do not personalize message

9. All responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.

11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.

Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

March 24, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

is shifting us to a new server over next couple of weeks, there will be significant delays in message delivery / access. Please limit your responses to only the essentials. Thank you to all sadhaks,

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

--

If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live asadhakas life, unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants, trying tofollow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chantingregularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. How should sheadvance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commitinga sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is alltemporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.Komal==========================================

NEW POSTING

Dear sadhika Komal jee,

Your question is, perhaps, related to performing the duties of a gruhasthi, when the spouse is more inclined towards worldly desires, and you are more inclined towards spiritual sadhna.

I would answer this question by what the Upanishads aver : the higher can, and does, contain the lower within its embrace, while the lower cannot contain the higher . Sadhna is a higher dimension of life chosen by the self. Hence the Life of a sadhaka embraces all the duties of a particular stage of life that Existance has placed him/ her into, with loving unselfishness, himself/ herself remaining absorbed in one's sadhna. It is by seeing God in your spouse, and fulfilling your duties of a householder without concepts and conditionings of your own mind.

Worldly Life , and worldly desires ......... are they not a part of the plan of God's Play. Is not Maya God's own creation?

And what is the percentage of people that become enlightened ? One in a million, say the Upanishads.

Spiritual progress is a step by step journey of the self, chosen by the self, into awareness of what is True happiness; learning slowly (and often painfully) and discarding what is only momentary pleasure or happiness . It is not by avoiding the world, or running away, but by going through the experience and then going beyond it through one's own understanding.

Upanishads say that there are only two ways to get rid of a Desire. One is by working at it, going through it , achieving it,and hence going beyond it . The other is by ' burning it into ashes in the crucible of your intellect'. This Latter way, however , is available only to great Yogis, say the Scriptures.

For the ordinary being , the way to go beyond desire is by going through it. ( At the time of the achevement of an object, the Object ceases to exist ....... say the shastras ).The blessed Sadhaka , of course, keeps seeking guidance from the Shastras, the Saints and Sages true. The Holy Bhagvada Geetha, too, speaks about seeking recourse to Shastras , when in doubt about one's conduct ( Ch 16, Sh 24).

Our conduct can either lead us towards our own Centre ( which is Bliss infinite), or away from it .That conduct , which leads us towards the Centre, is termed Punya, and that , which leads us away from our own Centre true, is called 'sin' or papa .

The whole of The Bh. Geetha is nothing but the lord's loving guidance , how to move into that Inner Sanctum, through Karma, Bhakti, and Gnana. Karmayoga,performing ones ordained duty lovingly with the fruits surrendered to God, is the foremost, because .....................because, it prepares the sadhakas mind to stop being a hindrance to Meditation.

A great misunderstanding has taken root in the minds of todays sadhakas............... that living the life of a sadhaka is in exclusion to living in tandem with the Maya all around. It is NOT so.

It is choosing to live the spiritual Life in spite of living with maya all around us, but not to fall into its clutches ( become attached to it ).

Also, spiritual life is not by running away from the duties imposed by the Stage your life is into. It is ,by performing all the duties of a particular Stage most selflessly and lovingly. It is sewa, with Tana, Mana and Dhana.( By the way, the knowers of Truth have defined ' dhana' as that, which brings Joy to one's mind, ....................... that, which gives one satisfaction and happiness )

What more to say, dear Komal ...................... the final word could only be ............... "be a great devotee, meditate, meditate, meditate ............. and all will be revealed to you from within."

AUM

narinder bhandari

----------

My pranaams to all.

I see the following and could not help remembering an incident that happened. A Pujari that I knew came and said he wanted to leave his wife and remarry. So I asked him why? He said that she does not want to have a physical relationship with him. I asked ---was she like this from the beginning? He said no, that they were a normal Hindu couple then he decided to join this Parampara that has the rule that you and your wife must only have physical relationship when you want to have children. I asked--did your wife like what you wanted her to change to--he said no that she had found it very very difficult to live a life of abstinence but eventually she became even stronger than him. So now years after with them having 2 teenagers the Pujari wants to leave his wife who is a good Bhakta too. And all because she did as he wanted her to do now today he is leaving her for obeying him.

My question to him was---you want to leave your wife and kids, he said yes. My Question--you still will be Pujari --he said yes. I said---you want to help save people and teach them--he said yes. I asked--what will you tell Lord Krsna when you meet Him? Bhagwaan-- I wanted to save the World and serve you. When Bhagwaan ask you what about the wife and children that I blessed you with--what about them? What will you tell Him? The Pujari looked at me with sudden shock then ran away and I have never seen him again.

My question to Komal Ji is--did the woman become like this after marriage? Was she devoted to Sadhana alone before marriage? Can one marry someone devoted to Sadhana and then ask them to change? A Sadhak who was vegetarian got married to a non veg person only because he said he too has become vege but as soon as the marriage ceremony finished he started eating non vege the next day. He kept promising to stop every day because he demands that she cook nonveg. She literally vomits when she does so but cooks it. This is the dilemma that faces some people after marriage as you never know the person until you start sharing the same roof then you see their true face.

Regards,

Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

---------

------

Dear Sadaks,

The exact situation was Sant Sakubai of Gopalpur. So read or see her history available as book and vedio format. Learn how Sri Krishna helped her, that too at very great extent, as depicted by Swamiji about Bakthas and Bagavan

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

------

-Shree Hari- Dear Komal,Reflecting on the core question:'...unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants....'The shloka pasted below caught my eye:Bhagavad Gita -5:10.He who performs actions, offering them to Brahman and abandoning attachment, isnot tainted by sin as a lotus leaf by water.My wife and I were talking to my guide/guru, and we were on the subject of thedivine blissful experience one can have when one meditates, especially in thepresence of a highly spiritual soul.She said, "Ah the nectar, better than {marital pleasures}, but I don't tellP.... (her husband), it would only upset him". D... my guru, did all the spiritual things mentioned by you plus regularlyattending an Ashram, she worked as a healer, in the broadest sense of the word.She never attempted to bend me to her path, nor P.... her husband , he took upAshtanga Yoga, that was his way.My advice is, to lead by example, do not measure the value of how another goesin search of GOD.In passing I am much closer to D's way than when I parted company from her nineyears ago.'...married woman is not under the influence of maya...'Question, are you sure about that?With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--------

Dear Komal jee,

May I also address another aspect of your Question. ( The question is very relevant and good )......

.................................................................................

to follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life ..................................

the answer is contained in a great Sufi story. Allow me to give it in Osho's own words.................

Bayazid, a Sufi mystic, has written in his autobiography, "When I was young I thought and I said to God, and in all my prayers this was the base: 'Give me energy so that I can change the whole world.' Everybody looked wrong to me. I was a revolutionary and I wanted to change the face of the earth. "When I became a little more mature I started praying: 'This seems to be too much. Life is going out of my hands--almost half of my life is gone and I have not changed a single person, and the whole world is too much.' So I said to God, 'My family will be enough. Let me change my family.' "And when I became old," says Bayazid, "I realized that even the family is too much, and who am I to change them? Then I realized that if I can change myself that will be enough, more than enough. I prayed to God, 'Now I have come to the right point. At least allow me to do this: I would like to change myself.' "God replied, 'Now there is no time left. This you should have asked in the beginning. Then there was a possibility.'" This, everybody asks in the end. One who asks in the beginning, he has understood the nature of things. He understands that even to change oneself is not an easy thing. You are a whole world within you; you carry the whole world. All that exists, exists within you. You are a whole universe, not a small thing--if this change can happen you have attained. Otherwise: When the deep meaning of things is not understood,the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.The Way is perfect, like vast spacewhere nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or rejectthat we do not see the true nature of things.The Way is perfect, like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.... Everything is as it should be; you just have to settle in it, only you are unsettled. Everything is as it should be...nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Can you think of a better universe than this? If you are wise, you cannot; if you are a fool you can. Nothing can be better than this, as it is. The only problem is you are not settled in it. Be settled in it and the way is perfect, like vast space, and nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Everything is balanced. Only you are the problem; the world is not the problem at all.

_______ OSHO

blessings from an old man .................

Aum

narinder

------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant tomotivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group'sprimary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.FOR RESPONDER1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka'stime.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

March 24, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

is shifting us to a new server over next couple of weeks, there will be significant delays in message delivery / access. Please limit your responses to only the essentials. Thank you to all sadhaks,

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

--

If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live asadhakas life, unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants, trying tofollow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chantingregularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. How should sheadvance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commitinga sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is alltemporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.

Komal

==========================================

NEW POSTING

Hari OmYour question itself, to my mind, is based on incorrect assumptions. Hence before I take up the same, let me first address the very assumptions on which the Q is based.___"If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live a sadhakas life ",Maya means Gunas. So long as you are connected with body (inert) , Maya must play. However you may afford not to worry excessively for Maya with reference to your really commendable resolve of living "Sadhaka's life" or in other words "becoming Sadhak". In fact the resolve itself is strong indicator of your independence irrespective of influence of Maya. __ unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants,They may be "materialistic wants" of your hubby but not of you when you consider fulfilling them as a part of your Duty.. For you they are either part of your "duty" or not part of your duty. Hence first assess as to what is your duty. The beauty of "duty" is that it is never difficult or something which you can not do. What you can not do is not your duty. Duty is- What you can do and what you should do.In any case and most certainly, Sadhakhood is not an obstacle in fulfilling demands of another human being if you can and if you should . In fact, reverse is the case. Your being sadhak must prompt and propel you to consider whether or not it is part of your duty. And if it is part of your duty then it is "immaterial" how the other person to whom you owe a service takes that- "materialistly" or "spirutually" or any other "ully" ! A sadhak judges him self/her self only and not others. He/She decides himself/herself to be "non- materialist" and that is all . For him others are only for service. Service means making others happy. (Sarve bhavantu sukhina)___ trying to follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life.Where is obstacle in your reading Holy Gita ? But why you should desire that your husband should become spiritual? Have you become spiritual ? For/vis a vis him ? Can you make him spiritual ? You have no control over him. Do you consider him to be yours? Reply yes or no. If you consider him to be yours, which you seem to be , then you have to decide regarding your duties towards him. Duty can't be alone desiring spirtuality for him. If you don't consider him to be yours then why you should desire that he should behave as you want, and how does it matter to you if he becomes spiritual or not ? -- How should she advance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commiting a sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is all temporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.Confrontation by the elders is not a hindrance but is facilitator in spiritual advancement. They are indicators/reminders to you reg your duties. You can as a sadhak easily perceive them to have arisen due to Divine will. They are elders. Moreover not doing one's duty is always a sin. They also say you that it is sin. Hence you should refer the matter to your conscience. Here they may be right also. Because there is no situation/circumstance ever, which can ever prove to be a hindrance in spiritual advancement. As a law- all have to be ONLY and ONLY a facilitator for a Sadhak. Doing one's duty in wedded life is in itself a worship, a sadhana.Duty is never a hindrance in spiritual advancement. It can never be. Hence key lies in knowing whether to do or not to do something is part of your "duty" or not. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

----------

Dear Sadhika Komaljee, NamaskarA human form is born with 23 chromosomes from the sperm of the father and 23chromosomes from the egg of the mother. This is the genome which governs yourbody, mind, intellect, emotions, passions and everything.Your parents know you much better than anybody else, what kind of personalityyou are, whether you are materialistic or spiritual, honest or cheater,truth-abiding or lier, lustful or sober etc.The parents of the boy and girl should discuss this before fixing the marriage.In your case, you are inherently pious in nature but your husband isnot....Whatever both of you try, you both are not going to change. So youcontinue your spiritual deeds and satisfy your husband...ultimately his material and worldly desires / lust (if that is one of them) will subside one day. ...Gee Waman

---------Hari OmVasudev Sathyanarainji ! Is not it a divine coincidence that last week only I heard from Swamiji's cassette in His immortal voice the katha of Sukubaai and now in your message you are talking about it? My Pranaams !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

-----------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators

Hari Om , Hari Om, Hari Om..............

Thank you .

I have not been able to find the old ( 'puratan'? ) man yet................ it seems it is his joy to keep showering his blessings ..............

should you be able to find him , please take me to him..............

thank you again ................

what Joy your words bring

what blessings they bring ........

nari becomes silent

narinder keeps laughing ..................

bhandari remains only the bhola he is .................

AUM

he, who is not to be found

narinder bhandari

-----------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, Have you tried calling out to Him as Swamiji has suggested many times ? Where have you been searching so far ?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhika Komal jee, Your question is, perhaps, related to performing the duties of a gruhasthi, when the spouse is more inclined towards worldly desires, and you are more inclined towards spiritual sadhna. I would answer this question by what the Upanishads aver : the higher can, and does, contain the lower within its embrace, while the lower cannot contain the higher . Sadhna is a higher dimension of life chosen by the self. Hence the Life of a sadhaka embraces all the duties of a particular stage of life that Existance has placed him/ her into, with loving unselfishness, himself/ herself remaining absorbed in one's sadhna. It is by seeing God in your spouse, and fulfilling your duties of a householder without concepts and conditionings of your own mind. Worldly Life , and worldly desires ......... are they not a part of the plan of God's Play. Is not Maya God's own creation? And what is the percentage of people that become enlightened ? One in a million, say the Upanishads. Spiritual progress is a step by step journey of the self, chosen by the self, into awareness of what is True happiness; learning slowly (and often painfully) and discarding what is only momentary pleasure or happiness . It is not by avoiding the world, or running away, but by going through the experience and then going beyond it through one's own understanding. Upanishads say that there are only two ways to get rid of a Desire. One is by working at it, going through it , achieving it,and hence going beyond it . The other is by ' burning it into ashes in the crucible of your intellect'. This Latter way, however , is available only to great Yogis, say the Scriptures. For the ordinary being , the way to go beyond desire is by going through it. ( At the time of the achevement of an object, the Object ceases to exist ....... say the shastras ).The blessed Sadhaka , of course, keeps seeking guidance from the Shastras, the Saints and Sages true. The Holy Bhagvada Geetha, too, speaks about seeking recourse to Shastras , when in doubt about one's conduct ( Ch 16, Sh 24). Our conduct can either lead us towards our own Centre ( which is Bliss infinite), or away from it .That conduct , which leads us towards the Centre, is termed Punya, and that , which leads us away from our own Centre true, is called 'sin' or papa . The whole of The Bh. Geetha is nothing but the lord's loving guidance , how to move into that Inner Sanctum, through Karma, Bhakti, and Gnana. Karmayoga,performing ones ordained duty lovingly with the fruits surrendered to God, is the foremost, because .....................because, it prepares the sadhakas mind to stop being a hindrance to Meditation. A great misunderstanding has taken root in the minds of todays sadhakas............... that living the life of a sadhaka is in exclusion to living in tandem with the Maya all around. It is NOT so. It is choosing to live the spiritual Life in spite of living with maya all around us, but not to fall into its clutches ( become attached to it ). Also, spiritual life is not by running away from the duties imposed by the Stage your life is into. It is ,by performing all the duties of a particular Stage most selflessly and lovingly. It is sewa, with Tana, Mana and Dhana.( By the way, the knowers of Truth have defined ' dhana' as that, which brings Joy to one's mind, ....................... that, which gives one satisfaction and happiness ) What more to say, dear Komal ...................... the final word could only be ............... "be a great devotee, meditate, meditate, meditate ............. and all will be revealed to you from within." AUM narinder bhandari ----------My pranaams to all. I see the following and could not help remembering an incident that happened. A Pujari that I knew came and said he wanted to leave his wife and remarry. So I asked him why? He said that she does not want to have a physical relationship with him. I asked ---was she like this from the beginning? He said no, that they were a normal Hindu couple then he decided to join this Parampara that has the rule that you and your wife must only have physical relationship when you want to have children. I asked--did your wife like what you wanted her to change to--he said no that she had found it very very difficult to live a life of abstinence but eventually she became even stronger than him. So now years after with them having 2 teenagers the Pujari wants to leave his wife who is a good Bhakta too. And all because she did as he wanted her to do now today he is leaving her for obeying him. My question to him was---you want to leave your wife and kids, he said yes. My Question--you still will be Pujari --he said yes. I said---you want to help save people and teach them--he said yes. I asked--what will you tell Lord Krsna when you meet Him? Bhagwaan-- I wanted to save the World and serve you. When Bhagwaan ask you what about the wife and children that I blessed you with--what about them? What will you tell Him? The Pujari looked at me with sudden shock then ran away and I have never seen him again. My question to Komal Ji is--did the woman become like this after marriage? Was she devoted to Sadhana alone before marriage? Can one marry someone devoted to Sadhana and then ask them to change? A Sadhak who was vegetarian got married to a non veg person only because he said he too has become vege but as soon as the marriage ceremony finished he started eating non vege the next day. He kept promising to stop every day because he demands that she cook nonveg. She literally vomits when she does so but cooks it. This is the dilemma that faces some people after marriage as you never know the person until you start sharing the same roof then you see their true face. Regards,Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)---------

------

Dear Sadaks,The exact situation was Sant Sakubai of Gopalpur. So read or see her history available as book and vedio format. Learn how Sri Krishna helped her, that too at very great extent, as depicted by Swamiji about Bakthas and Bagavan

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

------

-Shree Hari-

Dear Komal,

Reflecting on the core question:'...unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants....'

The shloka pasted below caught my eye:Bhagavad Gita -5:10.He who performs actions, offering them to Brahman and abandoning attachment, isnot tainted by sin as a lotus leaf by water.

My wife and I were talking to my guide/guru, and we were on the subject of thedivine blissful experience one can have when one meditates, especially in thepresence of a highly spiritual soul.She said, "Ah the nectar, better than {marital pleasures}, but I don't tellP.... (her husband), it would only upset him". D... my guru, did all the spiritual things mentioned by you plus regularlyattending an Ashram, she worked as a healer, in the broadest sense of the word.She never attempted to bend me to her path, nor P.... her husband , he took upAshtanga Yoga, that was his way.

My advice is, to lead by example, do not measure the value of how another goesin search of GOD.

In passing I am much closer to D's way than when I parted company from her nineyears ago.

'...married woman is not under the influence of maya...'Question, are you sure about that?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).--------Dear Komal jee, May I also address another aspect of your Question. ( The question is very relevant and good )......

................................................................................. to follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life ..................................the answer is contained in a great Sufi story. Allow me to give it in Osho's own words.................

Bayazid, a Sufi mystic, has written in his autobiography, "When I was young I thought and I said to God, and in all my prayers this was the base: 'Give me energy so that I can change the whole world.' Everybody looked wrong to me. I was a revolutionary and I wanted to change the face of the earth. "When I became a little more mature I started praying: 'This seems to be too much. Life is going out of my hands--almost half of my life is gone and I have not changed a single person, and the whole world is too much.' So I said to God, 'My family will be enough. Let me change my family.' "And when I became old," says Bayazid, "I realized that even the family is too much, and who am I to change them? Then I realized that if I can change myself that will be enough, more than enough. I prayed to God, 'Now I have come to the right point. At least allow me to do this: I would like to change myself.' "God replied, 'Now there is no time left. This you should have asked in the beginning. Then there was a possibility.'" This, everybody asks in the end. One who asks in the beginning, he has understood the nature of things. He understands that even to change oneself is not an easy thing. You are a whole world within you; you carry the whole world. All that exists, exists within you. You are a whole universe, not a small thing--if this change can happen you have attained. Otherwise: When the deep meaning of things is not understood,the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.The Way is perfect, like vast spacewhere nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or rejectthat we do not see the true nature of things.The Way is perfect, like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.... Everything is as it should be; you just have to settle in it, only you are unsettled. Everything is as it should be...nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Can you think of a better universe than this? If you are wise, you cannot; if you are a fool you can. Nothing can be better than this, as it is. The only problem is you are not settled in it. Be settled in it and the way is perfect, like vast space, and nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Everything is balanced. Only you are the problem; the world is not the problem at all.

_______ OSHO

blessings from an old man .................

Aum

narinder

------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant tomotivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group'sprimary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

FOR RESPONDER1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka'stime.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

March 25, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

THERE MAY BE SIGNIFICANT DELAYS IN GETTING THE MESSAGES TO THE GROUP. is shifting us to a new server over next couple of weeks, there will be significant delays in message delivery / access. Please limit your responses to only the essentials. Thank you to all sadhaks,

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

--

If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live asadhakas life, unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants, trying tofollow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chantingregularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. How should sheadvance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commitinga sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is alltemporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.

Komal

==========================================

NEW POSTING

Hari OmThere are several issues that are not clearly presented so it is difficult to give an appropriate response. But this is indeed a common problem where husband and wife are not in sync in terms of spirituality, and other lifestyle aspects.I suggest Komal provide more details:- what exactly is "not under the influence of maya?" How does one arrive at such a definitive claim? Just thinking you are not under the influence of maya could be an indication that you are engulfed and immersed in maya. Your husband may also think he is not under the influence of maya! - "unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants" - is this in all aspects of lifestyle , e.g. food, clothes, sex, job, career, family, leisure habits? You don' t really have to satisfy all his "materialistic needs."- chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. Have you thought of more effective methods, e.g. getting help from gurus or experienced sadhaks? have you spoken and discussed this with him? You should consider approaching him directly - but in a very diplomatic manner, initially just broaching the topic, and gradually escalating the process. Slowly, patiently, all the time assuring yourself that this is also an integral part of YOUR spiritual advancement. - if she confronted by the elders that she is committing a sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires: you should listen to elders but not allow anyone to take over your life and dictate every aspect of your life. Instead, try to work this out with your husband and those who may care for him and your family. These are the important people in this issue.It appears to me that you have taken this on as a solo project. Are you afraid of taking this matter directly to your husband? You should utilize the experience and knowledge of others who can counsel and advise. Be patient, take it slowly, consider this a project for YOUR spiritual advancement, and not you against the world. Remember, it is a great blessing to serve others and to help them on the right path, no matter how wide apart they maybe from you in terms of spirituality. Do not think of it as a self-centred journey of yours that is hindered by others but as total journey of you and husband and others who may be in a similar position as your husband. If you consider yourself as the catalyst for the advancement of spirituality in others then you would take a different approach and consider it a challenge to help your husband and others. Krishna S. Narinedath

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My dandavat pranams to all in this forum:

My dearest Komal,

I must speak to you from my heart, as only a woman who has struggled with the same issues as you can. I have realized, truly, that there is only a certain amount of gratification that any living entity is allowed in their exchanges with another living entity.....whether or not you or your spouse want to continue attempting to find pleasure through the path of sense indulgence, there will come a time when the material energy will refuse to allow such an exchange. You have a choice at every moment, to firmly and commitedly say, "my dear, I did not marry you for sense indulgence, I married you so that together we could place the Lord at the center, attempt to raise God conscous children, and gradually perfect our human life by the process of hearing and chanting of His glories"......or we can attempt to make his senses happy, AND SATISFY OUR OWN SENSE OF BEING A SUBMISSIVE WIFE, COMPATIBLE PARTNER, ETC, ETC....but ultimately the material nature, through one means or another, will cease to allow such enjoyment. So, if it is not possible to live peacefully in a sattvic environmnet with one's partner, then a woman should separate from the husband. Because women are not meant to be objects of enjoyment for men. They are meant to be worshiped as goddesses, as the ones bearing and raising the children, which is our prime duty. The nature of some men is to become so selfish that they will demand all a woman's attention, to the point where the focus is no longer on the children, but on the man's needs. And a woman is thinking, "But I have to keep him satisifed, or the children will suffer because the atmpsphere will be so unpleasant otherwise." Of course, this technique may work for a while, but ultimately, as I said earlier material nature will force the energies to clash. Becuase we ae not meant to gratify the senses of our partners, we are meant to help each other acheve God realiazation. If the wife is praying, "Oh, my dear Lord, Sri Krsna, I want to be close to You, I want to see Your beautiful form, and be devoted to You".....then how will Sri Krsna turn His back? It is bound to happen that the pull toward devotion will be stronger, because Lord Krsna will reciprocate with a love, with a sense of companionship, which is beyond material enjoyment. The man has a choice, to be a guide toward devotion, toward putting the Supreme Being in the center, and be respected and revered for his ability to do that, or else to be untimately set aside as the wifes devotion increases. There cannot be any false adoration in life, one must give respect and service to all, but there must be some discretion. Being a woman does not mean abandoning discretion.

Furthurmore, in saying that "unless there is peace, the wife should separate" I am not suggesting that this is a very desirable course of action.....nor should the wife remarry. This is not recommended, particularly if there are children. Better to remember constantly, "I am eternal, and this life will be over very soon, let me put my energy toward studying the scripture, learning bhajan, saving to tour the holy places in years to come, etc. " What is the harm? Only happiness comes from devoting oneself to the path of bhakti, though to be on this path is often a struggle to balance the things of this world that we wish to hold onto simultaneously.

Dandavat pranams. Mahalaksmi Dasi

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Only those who are emotionally matured should marry. Being a dutiful housewife is no bar to a spiritual life. One can be married and be spiritual at the same time. If one wants to abstain from sex, for whatever reason then why marry and make the husband suffer? After all sex is part and parcel of marriage and to force the husband to practice the virtues of celibacy due to one's spiritual urges somehow does not strike to me as being the right thing to do. Celibacy is no qualification for spirituality.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

dear dear Moderators,

how shall narinder speak of the old man.... how ?

THE OLD MAN PICKED UP HIS PEN ....................

He picked up the pen

.. Writing he saw

So, too, the Pen and the Parchament

But he was struck with awe

The writer was nowhere to be found.

He thought of his Beloved

The Beloved he had never seen

And the heart said,

â€œIt could only be Him

Yes, it could only be Him, the writer

Who was nowhere to be foundâ€

If you were the writer, Lord

Were you also the Pen and the Parchament?

All? Or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

Were you the moving finger

Or, the mind behind it

Both? Or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

.. Were you the Creation, Lord

Or, were you the Creator

Both, or neither, or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

Were you the self, pining and forlorn

Or the Self really you, the forgetful actor

Or, yet beyond were you, Lord

The witness invisible

Were you the Unity of Existence, Lord

Or were you the two-ness of the manifest

Or yet beyond

The witness invisible

And beloved

Are you the questing spirit

The eternal question

Or, the One answer, death to the Question

Or are you beyond,

The silent laughter

The Light of lights, beyond all darkness, art thou Lord

Or, art thou the Sound of Sounds, the Soundless sound

Or, are you the thundering Silence

Of the witness invisible

Are you the suffering sorrow, Lord

Or, are you the ecstasy of bliss divine

Or, beyond bliss and sorrow

The witness unknowable

Ah !

Every question is itself the answer

Each answer a begging question.

Neither question, nor answer, are you Lord ................

Only the teasing Silence

Of the witness beyond.

The writing has come to an end, Lord

The pen has stopped

The writer is still a mystery

The mystery

He chooses to reveal only to Himself .

AUM

narinder

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, Have you tried calling out to Him as Swamiji has suggested many times ? Where have you been searching so far ?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Ah, my friends divine,

what can narinder say of his search ......................

THE SEARCH CELESTIAL ...............................................................

o Govinda

In each love and loving

In every love

I searched only for you.

Pining for your love

Longing for you

Yearning for the Unknown

I searched and searched only for you

The babe seeking love at the mother's breast, in the father's eyes

The lover pining for the Beloved's embrace

The old man sighing for a moment with his son, his daughter's smile

I searched and searched for you, my Beloved ; only for you

In love's embrace

In my.beloved's arms

I got a glimpse

Of loving forgetfulness

Of the Self

Of the eternal NOW

Of YOU

But only a glimpse

It satisfied, but only for a moment

to set me again ablaze.....

Set me afire for the beyond

Yearning for eternity

Longing for God

Pining for you.

Only for you

But

I knew not

I was not aware

Consciousness eluded me

Realisation a far cry

That

Every Search,

Every Longing

Every Pining

Every Yearning

Was a deep desire

Only. for you.

And, you were smiling

You were laughing

You were beckoning

You were calling

Yet

I saw not

I heard not

I.heeded you not

And even so, 0 Krishna

Thou art thou!

In Kindness

In Benevolence

In your Graciousness

Lovingly, you turned towards me.

In some mad, divine, moment of loving

You entered my body

You invaded my mind

You pierced my heart

Body, mind, heart and soul

.. In loves union.

You made One

You made Whole

You gave me yourself

You made me myself

'No You, No Me

Only Self that is

That was; That is, That will always be

Eternal, Changeless, Timeless.Being

That Is; That just IS.

My thirst quenched

..Longing quietened

Yearning fulfilled

Pining soothed

You silenced my search !

Thank you Govinda

Thank you Lover

For the Gift of

Love and loving

AUM

narinder

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PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Your question itself, to my mind, is based on incorrect assumptions. Hence before I take up the same, let me first address the very assumptions on which the Q is based.

___"If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live a sadhakas life ",

Maya means Gunas. So long as you are connected with body (inert) , Maya must play. However you may afford not to worry excessively for Maya with reference to your really commendable resolve of living "Sadhaka's life" or in other words "becoming Sadhak". In fact the resolve itself is strong indicator of your independence irrespective of influence of Maya.

__ unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants,

They may be "materialistic wants" of your hubby but not of you when you consider fulfilling them as a part of your Duty.. For you they are either part of your "duty" or not part of your duty. Hence first assess as to what is your duty. The beauty of "duty" is that it is never difficult or something which you can not do. What you can not do is not your duty. Duty is- What you can do and what you should do.

In any case and most certainly, Sadhakhood is not an obstacle in fulfilling demands of another human being if you can and if you should . In fact, reverse is the case. Your being sadhak must prompt and propel you to consider whether or not it is part of your duty. And if it is part of your duty then it is "immaterial" how the other person to whom you owe a service takes that- "materialistly" or "spirutually" or any other "ully" !

A sadhak judges him self/her self only and not others. He/She decides himself/herself to be "non- materialist" and that is all . For him others are only for service. Service means making others happy. (Sarve bhavantu sukhina)

___ trying to follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life.

Where is obstacle in your reading Holy Gita ? But why you should desire that your husband should become spiritual? Have you become spiritual ? For/vis a vis him ? Can you make him spiritual ? You have no control over him. Do you consider him to be yours? Reply yes or no. If you consider him to be yours, which you seem to be , then you have to decide regarding your duties towards him. Duty can't be alone desiring spirtuality for him. If you don't consider him to be yours then why you should desire that he should behave as you want, and how does it matter to you if he becomes spiritual or not ?

-- How should she advance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commiting a sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is all temporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.

Confrontation by the elders is not a hindrance but is facilitator in spiritual advancement. They are indicators/reminders to you reg your duties. You can as a sadhak easily perceive them to have arisen due to Divine will. They are elders. Moreover not doing one's duty is always a sin. They also say you that it is sin. Hence you should refer the matter to your conscience.

Here they may be right also. Because there is no situation/circumstance ever, which can ever prove to be a hindrance in spiritual advancement. As a law- all have to be ONLY and ONLY a facilitator for a Sadhak. Doing one's duty in wedded life is in itself a worship, a sadhana.

Duty is never a hindrance in spiritual advancement. It can never be.

Hence key lies in knowing whether to do or not to do something is part of your "duty" or not.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadhika Komaljee, Namaskar

A human form is born with 23 chromosomes from the sperm of the father and 23chromosomes from the egg of the mother. This is the genome which governs yourbody, mind, intellect, emotions, passions and everything.

Your parents know you much better than anybody else, what kind of personalityyou are, whether you are materialistic or spiritual, honest or cheater,truth-abiding or lier, lustful or sober etc.

The parents of the boy and girl should discuss this before fixing the marriage.

In your case, you are inherently pious in nature but your husband isnot....Whatever both of you try, you both are not going to change. So youcontinue your spiritual deeds and satisfy your husband...ultimately his material and worldly desires / lust (if that is one of them) will subside one day.

....Gee Waman

---------Hari Om

Vasudev Sathyanarainji ! Is not it a divine coincidence that last week only I heard from Swamiji's cassette in His immortal voice the katha of Sukubaai and now in your message you are talking about it? My Pranaams !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators

Hari Om , Hari Om, Hari Om.............. Thank you . I have not been able to find the old ( 'puratan'? ) man yet................ it seems it is his joy to keep showering his blessings .............. should you be able to find him , please take me to him.............. thank you again ................ what Joy your words bring what blessings they bring ........ nari becomes silent narinder keeps laughing .................. bhandari remains only the bhola he is ................. AUM he, who is not to be found

narinder bhandari -----------Shree Hari Ram Ram Narinderji, Have you tried calling out to Him as Swamiji has suggested many times ? Where have you been searching so far ? From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhika Komal jee, Your question is, perhaps, related to performing the duties of a gruhasthi, when the spouse is more inclined towards worldly desires, and you are more inclined towards spiritual sadhna. I would answer this question by what the Upanishads aver : the higher can, and does, contain the lower within its embrace, while the lower cannot contain the higher . Sadhna is a higher dimension of life chosen by the self. Hence the Life of a sadhaka embraces all the duties of a particular stage of life that Existance has placed him/ her into, with loving unselfishness, himself/ herself remaining absorbed in one's sadhna. It is by seeing God in your spouse, and fulfilling your duties of a householder without concepts and conditionings of your own mind. Worldly Life , and worldly desires ......... are they not a part of the plan of God's Play. Is not Maya God's own creation? And what is the percentage of people that become enlightened ? One in a million, say the Upanishads. Spiritual progress is a step by step journey of the self, chosen by the self, into awareness of what is True happiness; learning slowly (and often painfully) and discarding what is only momentary pleasure or happiness . It is not by avoiding the world, or running away, but by going through the experience and then going beyond it through one's own understanding. Upanishads say that there are only two ways to get rid of a Desire. One is by working at it, going through it , achieving it,and hence going beyond it . The other is by ' burning it into ashes in the crucible of your intellect'. This Latter way, however , is available only to great Yogis, say the Scriptures. For the ordinary being , the way to go beyond desire is by going through it. ( At the time of the achevement of an object, the Object ceases to exist ....... say the shastras ).The blessed Sadhaka , of course, keeps seeking guidance from the Shastras, the Saints and Sages true. The Holy Bhagvada Geetha, too, speaks about seeking recourse to Shastras , when in doubt about one's conduct ( Ch 16, Sh 24). Our conduct can either lead us towards our own Centre ( which is Bliss infinite), or away from it .That conduct , which leads us towards the Centre, is termed Punya, and that , which leads us away from our own Centre true, is called 'sin' or papa . The whole of The Bh. Geetha is nothing but the lord's loving guidance , how to move into that Inner Sanctum, through Karma, Bhakti, and Gnana. Karmayoga,performing ones ordained duty lovingly with the fruits surrendered to God, is the foremost, because .....................because, it prepares the sadhakas mind to stop being a hindrance to Meditation. A great misunderstanding has taken root in the minds of todays sadhakas............... that living the life of a sadhaka is in exclusion to living in tandem with the Maya all around. It is NOT so. It is choosing to live the spiritual Life in spite of living with maya all around us, but not to fall into its clutches ( become attached to it ). Also, spiritual life is not by running away from the duties imposed by the Stage your life is into. It is ,by performing all the duties of a particular Stage most selflessly and lovingly. It is sewa, with Tana, Mana and Dhana.( By the way, the knowers of Truth have defined ' dhana' as that, which brings Joy to one's mind, ....................... that, which gives one satisfaction and happiness ) What more to say, dear Komal ...................... the final word could only be ............... "be a great devotee, meditate, meditate, meditate ............. and all will be revealed to you from within." AUM narinder bhandari ----------My pranaams to all. I see the following and could not help remembering an incident that happened. A Pujari that I knew came and said he wanted to leave his wife and remarry. So I asked him why? He said that she does not want to have a physical relationship with him. I asked ---was she like this from the beginning? He said no, that they were a normal Hindu couple then he decided to join this Parampara that has the rule that you and your wife must only have physical relationship when you want to have children. I asked--did your wife like what you wanted her to change to--he said no that she had found it very very difficult to live a life of abstinence but eventually she became even stronger than him. So now years after with them having 2 teenagers the Pujari wants to leave his wife who is a good Bhakta too. And all because she did as he wanted her to do now today he is leaving her for obeying him. My question to him was---you want to leave your wife and kids, he said yes. My Question--you still will be Pujari --he said yes. I said---you want to help save people and teach them--he said yes. I asked--what will you tell Lord Krsna when you meet Him? Bhagwaan-- I wanted to save the World and serve you. When Bhagwaan ask you what about the wife and children that I blessed you with--what about them? What will you tell Him? The Pujari looked at me with sudden shock then ran away and I have never seen him again. My question to Komal Ji is--did the woman become like this after marriage? Was she devoted to Sadhana alone before marriage? Can one marry someone devoted to Sadhana and then ask them to change? A Sadhak who was vegetarian got married to a non veg person only because he said he too has become vege but as soon as the marriage ceremony finished he started eating non vege the next day. He kept promising to stop every day because he demands that she cook nonveg. She literally vomits when she does so but cooks it. This is the dilemma that faces some people after marriage as you never know the person until you start sharing the same roof then you see their true face. Regards,Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)---------

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Dear Sadaks,The exact situation was Sant Sakubai of Gopalpur. So read or see her history available as book and vedio format. Learn how Sri Krishna helped her, that too at very great extent, as depicted by Swamiji about Bakthas and Bagavan

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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-Shree Hari-

Dear Komal,

Reflecting on the core question:'...unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants....'

The shloka pasted below caught my eye:Bhagavad Gita -5:10.He who performs actions, offering them to Brahman and abandoning attachment, isnot tainted by sin as a lotus leaf by water.

My wife and I were talking to my guide/guru, and we were on the subject of thedivine blissful experience one can have when one meditates, especially in thepresence of a highly spiritual soul.She said, "Ah the nectar, better than {marital pleasures}, but I don't tellP.... (her husband), it would only upset him". D... my guru, did all the spiritual things mentioned by you plus regularlyattending an Ashram, she worked as a healer, in the broadest sense of the word.She never attempted to bend me to her path, nor P.... her husband , he took upAshtanga Yoga, that was his way.

My advice is, to lead by example, do not measure the value of how another goesin search of GOD.

In passing I am much closer to D's way than when I parted company from her nineyears ago.

'...married woman is not under the influence of maya...'Question, are you sure about that?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).--------Dear Komal jee, May I also address another aspect of your Question. ( The question is very relevant and good )......

................................................................................. to follow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life ..................................the answer is contained in a great Sufi story. Allow me to give it in Osho's own words.................

Bayazid, a Sufi mystic, has written in his autobiography, "When I was young I thought and I said to God, and in all my prayers this was the base: 'Give me energy so that I can change the whole world.' Everybody looked wrong to me. I was a revolutionary and I wanted to change the face of the earth. "When I became a little more mature I started praying: 'This seems to be too much. Life is going out of my hands--almost half of my life is gone and I have not changed a single person, and the whole world is too much.' So I said to God, 'My family will be enough. Let me change my family.' "And when I became old," says Bayazid, "I realized that even the family is too much, and who am I to change them? Then I realized that if I can change myself that will be enough, more than enough. I prayed to God, 'Now I have come to the right point. At least allow me to do this: I would like to change myself.' "God replied, 'Now there is no time left. This you should have asked in the beginning. Then there was a possibility.'" This, everybody asks in the end. One who asks in the beginning, he has understood the nature of things. He understands that even to change oneself is not an easy thing. You are a whole world within you; you carry the whole world. All that exists, exists within you. You are a whole universe, not a small thing--if this change can happen you have attained. Otherwise: When the deep meaning of things is not understood,the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.The Way is perfect, like vast spacewhere nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or rejectthat we do not see the true nature of things.The Way is perfect, like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.... Everything is as it should be; you just have to settle in it, only you are unsettled. Everything is as it should be...nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Can you think of a better universe than this? If you are wise, you cannot; if you are a fool you can. Nothing can be better than this, as it is. The only problem is you are not settled in it. Be settled in it and the way is perfect, like vast space, and nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Everything is balanced. Only you are the problem; the world is not the problem at all.

_______ OSHO

blessings from an old man .................

Aum

narinder

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant tomotivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group'sprimary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

FOR RESPONDER1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka'stime.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

March 26, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

THERE MAY BE SIGNIFICANT DELAYS IN GETTING THE MESSAGES TO THE GROUP. is shifting us to a new server over next couple of weeks, there will be significant delays in message delivery / access. Please limit your responses to only the essentials. Thank you to all sadhaks,

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

--

If a married woman is not under the influence of maya and wants to live asadhakas life, unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants, trying tofollow the Bhagvad gitas teachings by reading shlokas everyday, chantingregularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. How should sheadvance in spiritual life if she confronted by the elders that she is commitinga sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires when she knows that this is alltemporary and a hindrance in spiritual advancement.

Komal

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NEW POSTING

Hari OmI feel really blissful, as this divine web site is illumining more and more with each passing day and as more and more sadhaks are joining and contributing. Divine indeed are messages of Gee Waman, Nandaji, Bhandariji what to say of Brother Mike Keenor. However I ought to refer the following from the message of Bhandariji : Our conduct can either lead us towards our own Centre ( which is Bliss infinite), or away from it .That conduct , which leads us towards the Centre, is termed Punya, and that , which leads us away from our own Centre true, is called 'sin' or papa . I seek his learned clarification just to know as to from where he picked up aforesaid definitions of "paap" (sin) and "punya" (virtue) ? Or it is self understood? Just for information and if he can elaborate on the concept further. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---------------

Hari OmDear Sadhaks ! Fact remains that a hubby quite often drives better half towards God. Reasons may differ from case to case- tough attitude or atrocious conduct or indifference or materialist tilt or over demandingness or overpowering ego or similar such , but generally it is seen that a hubby brings out devotion for God in wife. He makes wife so helpless by his absolutely incomprehensible conduct that many times she has no option but to seek shelter of God ! Hubby may not even be knowing this fact, but this is impact for wives- provided they have slighest seeds in them of spirituality. In every sorrow, spiritual advancement is hidden. After every calamity a purity comes within.No body crushes the ego of an individual more than his/her spouse. If we list out biggest ego crushers in this world after God it might read as 1 Spouse 2 Son/Daughter 3 Employer ......! Whoever crushes your ego, whoever causes you to turn towards Paramatma is equal to Him, should be treated so ! Saints have said:Guru Govind dou khade, kake lagoo paaon ! Balihari Guru apki Govind diyo milaay !!Before me Guru and God both are standing, to whom should I bow first? To Guru, because he only made me meet God !! Wives must respect hubbies if not for any other reason but for this solitary reason that it is their conduct towards them that made them turn towards God !!!! God indeed resides there too. Scriptures for aeons and ages are saying so. It is ego that prevents us from appreciating this simple fact.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Jai HanumanOne of the very common errors which a wife generally makes when she encounters not so uncommon rude conduct of Hubby - is to seek shelter of so called Gurus or Swamis or Babas who are now in every nook and corner. It complicates the scenario and further fuels pains/lack of peace. This is caused by stupidity, misplaced faith and desire to find quick relief. Hence we quite often find quarrelling in a family due to wife visiting ashrams of such Gurus. Now all of them may not be that bad, but generally in Kaliyuga, it will very difficult to find Gurus that are realized souls with no selfish motive. This then brings elders and parent in laws in the picture - quite often in a dissatisfaction / opposing mode. That further fuels pains and lack of peace in home. On top of that the arrogance and sheltering of ego at all costs, makes the home hell.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala

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PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

There are several issues that are not clearly presented so it is difficult to give an appropriate response. But this is indeed a common problem where husband and wife are not in sync in terms of spirituality, and other lifestyle aspects.

I suggest Komal provide more details:- what exactly is "not under the influence of maya?" How does one arrive at such a definitive claim? Just thinking you are not under the influence of maya could be an indication that you are engulfed and immersed in maya. Your husband may also think he is not under the influence of maya!

- "unable in satisfying her husbands materialistic wants" - is this in all aspects of lifestyle , e.g. food, clothes, sex, job, career, family, leisure habits? You don' t really have to satisfy all his "materialistic needs."

- chanting regularly for the husband to get involved in the spiritual life. Have you thought of more effective methods, e.g. getting help from gurus or experienced sadhaks? have you spoken and discussed this with him? You should consider approaching him directly - but in a very diplomatic manner, initially just broaching the topic, and gradually escalating the process. Slowly, patiently, all the time assuring yourself that this is also an integral part of YOUR spiritual advancement.

- if she confronted by the elders that she is committing a sin by not fulfilling her husbands desires: you should listen to elders but not allow anyone to take over your life and dictate every aspect of your life. Instead, try to work this out with your husband and those who may care for him and your family. These are the important people in this issue.

It appears to me that you have taken this on as a solo project. Are you afraid of taking this matter directly to your husband? You should utilize the experience and knowledge of others who can counsel and advise.

Be patient, take it slowly, consider this a project for YOUR spiritual advancement, and not you against the world. Remember, it is a great blessing to serve others and to help them on the right path, no matter how wide apart they maybe from you in terms of spirituality. Do not think of it as a self-centred journey of yours that is hindered by others but as total journey of you and husband and others who may be in a similar position as your husband. If you consider yourself as the catalyst for the advancement of spirituality in others then you would take a different approach and consider it a challenge to help your husband and others.

Krishna S. Narinedath

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My dandavat pranams to all in this forum:

My dearest Komal, I must speak to you from my heart, as only a woman who has struggled with the same issues as you can. I have realized, truly, that there is only a certain amount of gratification that any living entity is allowed in their exchanges with another living entity.....whether or not you or your spouse want to continue attempting to find pleasure through the path of sense indulgence, there will come a time when the material energy will refuse to allow such an exchange. You have a choice at every moment, to firmly and commitedly say, "my dear, I did not marry you for sense indulgence, I married you so that together we could place the Lord at the center, attempt to raise God conscous children, and gradually perfect our human life by the process of hearing and chanting of His glories"......or we can attempt to make his senses happy, AND SATISFY OUR OWN SENSE OF BEING A SUBMISSIVE WIFE, COMPATIBLE PARTNER, ETC, ETC....but ultimately the material nature, through one means or another, will cease to allow such enjoyment. So, if it is not possible to live peacefully in a sattvic environmnet with one's partner, then a woman should separate from the husband. Because women are not meant to be objects of enjoyment for men. They are meant to be worshiped as goddesses, as the ones bearing and raising the children, which is our prime duty. The nature of some men is to become so selfish that they will demand all a woman's attention, to the point where the focus is no longer on the children, but on the man's needs. And a woman is thinking, "But I have to keep him satisifed, or the children will suffer because the atmpsphere will be so unpleasant otherwise." Of course, this technique may work for a while, but ultimately, as I said earlier material nature will force the energies to clash. Becuase we ae not meant to gratify the senses of our partners, we are meant to help each other acheve God realiazation. If the wife is praying, "Oh, my dear Lord, Sri Krsna, I want to be close to You, I want to see Your beautiful form, and be devoted to You".....then how will Sri Krsna turn His back? It is bound to happen that the pull toward devotion will be stronger, because Lord Krsna will reciprocate with a love, with a sense of companionship, which is beyond material enjoyment. The man has a choice, to be a guide toward devotion, toward putting the Supreme Being in the center, and be respected and revered for his ability to do that, or else to be untimately set aside as the wifes devotion increases. There cannot be any false adoration in life, one must give respect and service to all, but there must be some discretion. Being a woman does not mean abandoning discretion. Furthurmore, in saying that "unless there is peace, the wife should separate" I am not suggesting that this is a very desirable course of action.....nor should the wife remarry. This is not recommended, particularly if there are children. Better to remember constantly, "I am eternal, and this life will be over very soon, let me put my energy toward studying the scripture, learning bhajan, saving to tour the holy places in years to come, etc. " What is the harm? Only happiness comes from devoting oneself to the path of bhakti, though to be on this path is often a struggle to balance the things of this world that we wish to hold onto simultaneously.Dandavat pranams. Mahalaksmi Dasi---------------------------Only those who are emotionally matured should marry. Being a dutiful housewife is no bar to a spiritual life. One can be married and be spiritual at the same time. If one wants to abstain from sex, for whatever reason then why marry and make the husband suffer? After all sex is part and parcel of marriage and to force the husband to practice the virtues of celibacy due to one's spiritual urges somehow does not strike to me as being the right thing to do. Celibacy is no qualification for spirituality.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Narinderji, who is this old man that you speak of showering his blessings? Please clarify?

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

dear dear Moderators,

how shall narinder speak of the old man.... how ?

THE OLD MAN PICKED UP HIS PEN ....................

He picked up the pen

.. Writing he saw

So, too, the Pen and the Parchament

But he was struck with awe

The writer was nowhere to be found.

He thought of his Beloved

The Beloved he had never seen

And the heart said,

â€œIt could only be Him

Yes, it could only be Him, the writer

Who was nowhere to be foundâ€

If you were the writer, Lord

Were you also the Pen and the Parchament?

All? Or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

Were you the moving finger

Or, the mind behind it

Both? Or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

.. Were you the Creation, Lord

Or, were you the Creator

Both, or neither, or, were you beyond

The witness invisible

Were you the self, pining and forlorn

Or the Self really you, the forgetful actor

Or, yet beyond were you, Lord

The witness invisible

Were you the Unity of Existence, Lord

Or were you the two-ness of the manifest

Or yet beyond

The witness invisible

And beloved

Are you the questing spirit

The eternal question

Or, the One answer, death to the Question

Or are you beyond,

The silent laughter

The Light of lights, beyond all darkness, art thou Lord

Or, art thou the Sound of Sounds, the Soundless sound

Or, are you the thundering Silence

Of the witness invisible

Are you the suffering sorrow, Lord

Or, are you the ecstasy of bliss divine

Or, beyond bliss and sorrow

The witness unknowable

Ah !

Every question is itself the answer

Each answer a begging question.

Neither question, nor answer, are you Lord ................

Only the teasing Silence

Of the witness beyond.

The writing has come to an end, Lord

The pen has stopped

The writer is still a mystery

The mystery

He chooses to reveal only to Himself .

AUM

narinder-------------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --Shree Hari Ram Ram Narinderji, Have you tried calling out to Him as Swamiji has suggested many times ? Where have you been searching so far ? From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------