Why should one be a Vegetarian ? Does Gita say not to Eat Meat?

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge with

all new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,

Ram Ram

------------------

Dear friends,

Jai Shri Ramji,

Vegetarianism is " non-voilence " or ahimsa, it is " satvik " .

Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not kill

animals & eat them.

When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a living

organism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,

so they feel lesser pain than animals.

For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have any

pain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.

However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animal

in pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.

In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch the

slaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, they

would not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,

then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as he

also have less sense organs???

The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person though

physically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are human

beings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologically

see or hear.

The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs are

more imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while a

plant does not.

Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimum

as possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).

This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also our

spirituality- as it is said that " jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann " -

means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain

---

Kabeer Das says

Hindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat hain

taaki kaun havaal

English:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen to

those eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,

learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poses

limitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carries

sat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by material

nature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav but

provides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, the

product will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increase

business. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies less

with more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumption

rises exponentially.

regards

K G Misra

---

Hari Om,

Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realise

the killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing from

hindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As long

as one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in a

killing, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brain

and heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killing

a deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Man

has 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that a

animal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attacked

or killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as " Brahma Hati " . One raises

above normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due to

attachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaves

where there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects and

plants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore one

must use there discrimination at all times in everything thing

including food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known from

scripts.

B.Sathyanarayan

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

>

> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar

> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.

>

> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the

> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below -

>

> Particularly read the following links -

>

> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture

> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)

> /message/627

>

> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp

> /message/626

>

> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence

> /message/632

>

> Please search gita talk group by entering " Vegeterianism " in the

> search window for additional discussions.

>

> Ram Ram

March 28, 2009

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

--------------------

Dear,

Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...."

please read

regards

kalrav pande

----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

-

Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram

------------------

Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---

Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.

regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan

, "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

March 29, 2009

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

I do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animals

From an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion

We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."

We would not eat our pets.

I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human.

Sophia

-------------------

Ram Ram,

God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.

Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.

Ashok Goenka

-------------------------

dear kaushal ji,

natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous.

let us see naturally in what category we fall.

HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUS

Blunt nails | sharpened pointed nails

Sucking action - liguids | Licking action - Liquids

Flat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teeth

Temperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey

Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey..

After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you.

ckkaul.-------------------------------

Hari OmBhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.Krishna S. Narinedath.

-----

Namastey all vegetarians and vegans,

If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating.

Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator..

Then the change in habit will be permanent.

Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence.

Ramesh Jhalla.

----------------

Sir,

QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian?

podury

------------------

the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence.

Podury

---------------------

---------------

PRIOR POSTING

In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

--------------------

Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals.

....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

-

Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram

------------------

Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---

Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.

regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan

, "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

March 30, 2009

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian, and believe in a philosophy that one does not have the right to take away something which I cant give --- LIFE. We don't have a right to kill animals to satisfy our taste buds. Regards, Balveer.

-

Hari Om

There has indeed been a good participation on this subject. I liked immensely the messages of all sadhaks on the subject. Ashokji, Rameshji Jhalla , C K Kaul and Sophiaji, to name a few. Welcome Sophiaji. Hope you are now rejuvenated. But the message of Sadhak Krishna S Narinedath is different . He beautifully narrated a universal fact- God is dis-interested witness. He gave us Gita, Scriptures, Conscience and human birth. Now it is for us to think. Certainly God is not going to put the things to a grinding halt. I have some thoughts on the subject. I am not on advantages or disadvantages of meat eating. I am on Law of Karma and Paramatma governing the same. Slightly long posting, I hope Sadhaks will bear with me. I want all non-vegetarians to THINK. At the outset, it actually does not matter from God's point of view as to who is getting killed. All are his children and the creation is "immortal" from his point of view. That is why he does not object directly or puts the things to a grinding halt even if you kill any one of his creations including his most loved creation -- THE HOLY COW ! That is the God - watching, tolerating, the action of one child vis-a-vis his another child ! But he maintains the record, he has his own method of bringing the errant child to his senses ! He can afford to wait, he loves all equally. That is the point of view of one element of the trinity – God ! The second element is the one who got killed- cow, fish, pig, chicken, prawn, goat etc. Nobody can get killed as per Gita ! (Chapter 2). One who got killed in fact would never regret after getting killed because in fact it (say he ) has become purer ! In fact he has reaped what he sowed and is now debt free ! He in fact is the happiest among the three- though to the third party he may be appearing to be the helpless victim ! But that is between him and God only. The third character of trinity is meat eater. I will call him for brevity's sake murderer or butcher. Now come to the murderer ! What right he had to annihilate any creature from this world? Did he create them? Was he nourishing or feeding them ? What harm those creatures caused to him? What was the mistake made vis-a-vis him by the holy Cow or by Fish or by a chicken or by a lamb or by a pig ? Just for fun ? Just to satisfy the demands of tongue? Just to feed the Ego or show power ? To continue with what you have seen others as doing ? If you can kill why you should not kill ? Taste ! Everybody does it so I should also?.God has made them for killing only and has made me superior to them ! All these arguments , thoughts are advocated. None is valid! You had a licence of power, you misused that, you ignored the basics of humanity and hence you will be stripped of your powers ! Did you ever realise what kind of pain the fish or chicken or cow goes through ? No - so now realise that ? How ? Become that ! That is then becomes your fate! That is then becomes the dictum of mother nature for you ! That then becomes the punishment for you ! Of course, the benevolence of Paramatma is there in that also, because now you have become second character of trinity, can only move towards north. But would you like to first fall and then suffer and then rise upwards to become human again ?

Ø That is why you should not kill and should not be a non vegetarian ! It makes no difference to the God or World or the victim- IT MAKES DIFFERENCE TO YOU ! Look at the type of difference the killng others can make to you? You fall from the position of human being to the position of animal ! As a human being you could have gone to any heights - even become God ! But just to satisfy your tongue - you fell down to become an animal! SURELY- now the tongue will be the centre of attraction ! Tongue as good as that of frog, as good as that of snake ! As good as that of Cuckoo ! But what about you ! That is why you should not kill or motivate others to kill ! He who gave you power to kill can also take that power away from you and give the same power to that soul whom you killed or to that soul who has been appointed by Him to make you taste your own medicine ! BE SURE- when He does so, He does with 100 times more intensity than what you did ! He knows better than you the principles of Maths and the principles of interest calculation- simple, compound, and the rests of compounding the interest - daily rest or monthly rests or the yearly rests or the hourly rests ! Then where shall you be ? That is why you should not kill ! Many times we say this world has got only one law- the strong wins and the weak loses ! How many think as to how and why this law came into being ? Who is that weak ? Why is he weak? Why is some one strong? What are the duties of one who is strong ? Who made them weak or strong ? Why ? Can you not be made weak ??? One who made you strong and some one else as weak - is He not powerful enough to turn the tables? That is why you should not kill !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas, N B

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Hari OmNo egg. No alcoholic beverages or coffee. Sadly, we live in a world that bombards the vulnerable and impressionable with messages on the media - print and broadcast, and if parents are not careful and alert the young ones will adopt tamasic habits.

No cheese with rennet. Many soap bars have animal products as are seemingly vegetarian products, e.g. baked goods, cookies, ice-cream etc. Lard and gelatin are two common animal derivatives in many food items.

It is all up to us. No one can force you to eat or drink anything. Happiness and comfort should not be dependent on what you eat or drink but this is easier said and done unless one reaches a certain level of spirituality.

But, don't be discouraged if you falter. Persevere. Bhagavan is not there spying on all to see what they eat or drink. He is loving and forgiving, it is up to us to lead our lives as according to the scriptures.

Krishna S. Narinedath

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dear mr kaushal

There is no need for Bhagwan to say in Gita or elsewhere not to take non-veg. Man is by nature vegeratian. Non-veg animals will have such nails, teath, digestive system etc which can digest non-veg items. Man is having all the parts of his body suitable to digest vegetables. All non-veg animals drink water by their tongue. All veg animals drink water by mouth. Normally, a donkey is said to have far less brain/intelligentia. So we call those who does a foolish thing, a donkey, gathha. But we keep a donkey for ten days without giving any food or water and put in its front some flesh of an animal, give it some brandy, give it some tobacco. definitely it will not eat those items. If we keep a dog hungry and thirsty for few days give it some alcohol to drink. No it will not touch. Like the same with animals. You keep an elephant hungry for few days and give it some mutton or fish, it will not accept it. We claim that people are the intelligentia, people are the wise amongst all creatures, people are best out of God's creations., but it is, alas, in selecting the food, man has become worse than donkeys and dogs. Where is the intelligentia, where is the knowledge, where is the differentiating power, where is the VIVEK to distinguish what is good and what is bad for me, for my body, for my mind. When one is bodily little bit weak and if approaches a doctor, he will suggest to take egg, mutton etc . After few years when the same man is under some disease and if approaches the same doctor, he will tell you, all these complications happened because of your eating meat, egg etc. So stop it forthwith.

There are innumerable best things which are best suited for body. There is no need to tell somebody what is good for your body/mind. If donkeys and dogs are aware of it well and if man does'nt know, then such a lot is worse than that.

You are a vegetarian. Follow your principles. Live to hold it to its sanctity. Success will be yours.

best wishesvijayan-------Shree Hari-

Very little to say BUT, I agree with Ramesh Jhalla.Remember in other cultures and religions, there are vast dogmas of the do's anddon'ts w.r.t to food and drink.

The inner voice guiding one, is THAT which cuts through all dogmas.An evolution of thought that has guided me to where I am now.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

PS. Welcome home Sister.------------------------Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karmas". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" – greatly impure ! One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so we become !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians – that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread – are they not tasty? Blood and flesh – can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything is continued ? Don't worry, GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles,, lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, …..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Eating stool ? That also is edible, O Humans ! Many worms feed on that also. Wanna become those worms? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss the opportunity of being crawling insects. This is available in human life only. You are human. You are independent. Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of "spirituality" or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? No way !! But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. We are HUMANS !!

Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

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Dear Sadhaks,

It was the year 1960. A young lieutenant in the Army posted at Jhansi went to his spiritual Guru, Sant Pritpal Singh. His mind was vexed. he had read so much about vegetarianism; the Bhagvada Geetha's appropriate shalokas arose in his mind, when he relished non-vegetarian food. Buddhas words, religious injunctions, the food habits in different cultures added to his turmoil of the mind, whenever questions on vegetarianism came up.

He had decided to ask Pitajee, as the Sant Guru was popularly called by the many, who went to him for spiritual solace and guidance.

Pitajee lovingly asked, " Speak about your mind, narinder. Do you feel like taking non-veg food, do you relish it ?"

" Yes..... and there is a feeling of guilt , " replied young narinder .

" Then eat... without any feeling of guilt. BUT................ to you, I would only say. Keep listening to Kirtan, read your scriptures regularly. Strive to move into true spiritual living guided by Satsang. Some day, the desire for non-veg food may vanish. Then, you shall truly know."

And so life continued . One day, not many years later, sitting in a posh restaurant with friends, when narinder's favorite non -veg dish came on the table, the mind suddenly felt NO desire for meat. Narinder had become a vegetarian.

And the spiritual movement continued.

Jai Jai Krishna ................. Jai !

AUM

Narinder Bhandari

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Gita is about the concept of God, the methods to realize God: Gita was notprobably intended to prescribe good or bad food. All beings select food to beeaten and not to be eaten through trial and error by observing the impact offood on health, longevity and stimulation of inherent chracteristics of body andmind. If one chooses a particular objective of good health, longer life andstimulation to spiritual activity, one may choose certain kinds of food that mayhelp contribute to the realisation of those objectives gven the person'sinherent body properties. What suit one may not suit another. Besides, manypersons or beings do not have really any choice over food given their incomesand the climate/ evironment they live in. Gita's purpose is to explain to humanbeings the blissful State of Godhood in men when they see everything as equal,lost their 'I'-ness ad ego and have become free from desire, attachment, angerand fear. A general prescription of foods involves attachment to body ad mind and therefore is not consistent with Gita's purpose.However, depending on the three Guna combination one has a person may beattracted by certain foods: the Yogi does not bother about choice of foods as heprogresses on his path to freedom.Basudeb Sen--------Dear All

Please note that We The Aryawarth gave Maths to the worldCOMPUTE THISThe World is already 90% Vegetarian in its consumptioneg. A Pot Roast / Meatloaf dinner is actually only 10% meat. The rest of the fayre is Beans, Corn, Potatoes, Cabbage, Salad, Ice Cream / Apple Pie.So Please forget The Veg uniqueness or contribution to world peace. In real terms we are Vegetarian in consumption another 10% shift is unlikely to change lives.Better that we Stop re-pressing the Aryawarth. Let Him be Free like Great Vayu.Here's a question that The Veg folks could answer. Q. Would the Vegetarian advocates create an Animal such as a defencless Doe incapable of retaliating then create a Large Fierce predator with Bone Crushing Jaws, Claws that could cut a man in two and speed that would outrun most animals. Then have such a predator pursue the poor doe and crush it for food??? Q. Would he who is ALL Capable watch a Great Guru who has acquired knowledge of Science & Maths, of Theology etc die from pain of Cardiac Arrest / Cancer etc??The Points are very simple. All that we see here is Maya (an illusion) it is a passing event. This life that we cling to is a physical form. It is dust and will return to dust. The Atmaa cannot be eaten. Preserve this. The focus on physicality belies a juvenile understanding of God's Creation.

Veda Shakti!

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PRIOR POSTING

I do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animalsFrom an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."We would not eat our pets. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Sophia-------------------Ram Ram,God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.Ashok Goenka-------------------------dear kaushal ji, natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous. let us see naturally in what category we fall. HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUSBlunt nails | sharpened pointed nailsSucking action - liguids | Licking action - LiquidsFlat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teethTemperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey.. After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you. ckkaul.-------------------------------Hari Om

Bhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.

But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.

Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.

Krishna S. Narinedath.----- Namastey all vegetarians and vegans, If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating. Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator.. Then the change in habit will be permanent. Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence. Ramesh Jhalla.---------------- Sir, QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian? podury------------------ the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence. Podury---------------------

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PRIOR POSTING

In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

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Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals.

....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

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Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram

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Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---

Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.

regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan

, "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

April 2, 2009

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

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Dear Sadaks,

Bagavan has said in Bakthi Marg and in Baktha Vijayam that to see HIM in a dog, donkey, leprosy person, earth worm etc Only to purify our thoughts. One sadak has said this will give compassion and wisdom. If one expects to have compasion and wisdom, he should practice them in loving animals.

All sadaks can read a script MANASHA PANCHAKAM that tells about this same subject. There is answers for all your queries. This is the dialogue between Adi Sankara and Bagavan Shiva.

Human brain and knowledge gained by it. If one can feel or see the suffering of animals being killed, he is normal human. But he who does not, then he is preparing himself to be born over several births as animals to be slaughtered. If the same human can understand by knowledge scientifically that plants and leaves have life, then he is upper class of human(Wiseman). But by creation of GOD, one cannot physically see or feel the plants, vegatables, Etc beeing cut is acceptable as food for survival. But if one can see physically pain in animal, then he should not opt for Non Vegetarian.

There were Yogies like Jada Bharath in Srimath Bagavath, who ate only fallen fruits/vegatables/leaves on ground. He was so consciess not to trample over an ant. In his previous birth as a deer, he ate only dry grass/leaves/fallen fruits. This deer had Sumrthies (Ability to remember earlier birth) since it was as Bharatha Yogiswar abundant yogic power.

One of the 63 Shiva saints sang, that he saw Shiva in leave, flower, tree, fruit etc and he said, ""Oh Bagavan YOU are filled in everything, and I have nothing to offer"". But again there were Bakthas who gave flowers and garlands to Bagavan. Here what you give or do pooja with 1000 leaves is not matter. It is Bagavan`s words, "Pushpam, Patram, Palam, Thoyam---------:", that one gives with tears in his eyes and his heart filled with devotion, his thoughts all concentrated on Bagavan.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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MOKSHA

Need clarification about Ahimsa, Maya's activity, one's Karma and related Destiny when there there is no Death or Suffering of the Soul....

I am unclear as to the strange dichotomy of understanding that yes all is maya, passing , a dream transitory phenomena, be non attached do not grasp desire mourn crave etc. at the same time we must adhere to ethics no? QUESTION: Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomeneom and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt? but this is the experiential physical plane of so called mayic activity where we do have experience and have what animals do not have the grace of choice and discrimination and the grace of bhakti. the grace of ahimsa. there is an extreme perception i think that needs to be adjusted. its like the stories of widowed elderly women being left at bus stations abandoned by their families and saying its ok its their karma. if we do not generate compassion live in compassion be compassion and just say well its karma or its all a passing dream if we do not choose to non-harm we are deluded in sorry. perhaps Gita needs to be explained better. while ultimately it is true there is no death or suffering i would not take my cat rip its skin off and boil it alive and tell it or myself it is not suffering or any other sentient being that is suffering. that it is not real.

Sophia

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Jai HanumanBeautiful messages from our brethren. KC Giriji covered all aspects. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karma". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" greatly impure !One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so becomes our mind! As is our mind so are we !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians' that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread " are they not tasty? Blood and flesh can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything and everything is continued ? GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, â€¦..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss any opportunity of being animals and crawling insects. This opportunity is available ONLY in human life - . You are human. You are independent. You can choose to become whatever you want in next birth. Your mind chooses that. That mind by eating animals and loving their flesh can choose what ? Wake up, Jee !Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of â€œspiritualityâ€ or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? Very very unlikely. But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. He is very honest in granting us independence. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Pls don't qualify yourself for such births. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. Very Very easy to get. If we like flesh we shall be given teeth, stomach, appetite also benevolently and accordingly by Mom Nature ! But We are at present HUMANS !! Can we not think higher? If not now, when?Raam! Raam !! Raam !!! Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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Namaste

Reasons for becoming Vegeterian

First of all Human being do not have the necessary system for the Non veg food. Digestive system of animals is very short,further teeth are also pointed. Whereas Human being is having long digestive system. The non veg. food gets deteriorated inside the human digestive system thus creating harm to the system. Non veg food contains more of phosphorus & other elements harmful for bones.Further to make non veg food more tasty the elements used are also causing harm to the body. The WBC of blood treats non veg food as Antibody & tries to expel it out. Hence is the smell coming out after eating non veg food. I think this explanation is enough.

Regards

Bhavin Shah

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Sir, Vedas preach Vegetarianism only. Geetha which is loyal to Veda cannot think otherwise. Let it be understood that Vedas are supreme over any scriptures which includes Geetha also. The matter whether Meat eating good or not has been examined and appropriate reply furnished in various the Vedic portals where you can tackle meat eaters with intelligent arguments. you can search on "meat eating proper or improper"

Thanking you, Vasudevarao.

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Vasudevaji, we do not allow links to this forum, kindly include any important information in your response. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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1) Human Body is not meant to digest meat.

2) You may not find in Geeta. But does tell us that Lord Kirshna has lots of Love for Cows and Animals. You are not supposed to entertain or please yourself by torturing the innocent animals.

3) Please search on various sites on "Vegetarian" and importance of being vegetarian. Also, Sciecne has proven the people who are vegetarian are less at risk to all kind of desease than those who are non vegetarian. If you want live a healy life, "BE VEG-STAY HEALTHY"

JAI SRI RAM!

Ajit Patel

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If one is on the spiritual path then you don't have to leave bad habits. Bad habits leave you. Drinking, drugs and eating meat are the bad habits that are obstacles on our spiritual journey. But then one man's meat is another's poison. So it is not Gita but your own conscience that will stop you from eating meat, when the time comes

Hari Shanker Deo

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Hari Shanker Deoji, Swamiji says that if a sadhak knows something to be bad (wrong, evil action), the responsibility lies within him to not do it. We are independent in the performance of our actions. The only reason we continue doing evil is desire for enjoyment of pleasures (bhog) and accumulation of material things / wealth (sangraha). These are up to us to give up as we have the freedom of choice. If we is unable to do so, we can seek God's help by calling out to Him. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian, and believe in a philosophy that one does not have the right to take away something which I cant give --- LIFE. We don't have a right to kill animals to satisfy our taste buds. Regards, Balveer.

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Hari Om

There has indeed been a good participation on this subject. I liked immensely the messages of all sadhaks on the subject. Ashokji, Rameshji Jhalla , C K Kaul and Sophiaji, to name a few. Welcome Sophiaji. Hope you are now rejuvenated. But the message of Sadhak Krishna S Narinedath is different . He beautifully narrated a universal fact- God is dis-interested witness. He gave us Gita, Scriptures, Conscience and human birth. Now it is for us to think. Certainly God is not going to put the things to a grinding halt. I have some thoughts on the subject. I am not on advantages or disadvantages of meat eating. I am on Law of Karma and Paramatma governing the same. Slightly long posting, I hope Sadhaks will bear with me. I want all non-vegetarians to THINK. At the outset, it actually does not matter from God's point of view as to who is getting killed. All are his children and the creation is "immortal" from his point of view. That is why he does not object directly or puts the things to a grinding halt even if you kill any one of his creations including his most loved creation -- THE HOLY COW ! That is the God - watching, tolerating, the action of one child vis-a-vis his another child ! But he maintains the record, he has his own method of bringing the errant child to his senses ! He can afford to wait, he loves all equally. That is the point of view of one element of the trinity – God ! The second element is the one who got killed- cow, fish, pig, chicken, prawn, goat etc. Nobody can get killed as per Gita ! (Chapter 2). One who got killed in fact would never regret after getting killed because in fact it (say he ) has become purer ! In fact he has reaped what he sowed and is now debt free ! He in fact is the happiest among the three- though to the third party he may be appearing to be the helpless victim ! But that is between him and God only. The third character of trinity is meat eater. I will call him for brevity's sake murderer or butcher. Now come to the murderer ! What right he had to annihilate any creature from this world? Did he create them? Was he nourishing or feeding them ? What harm those creatures caused to him? What was the mistake made vis-a-vis him by the holy Cow or by Fish or by a chicken or by a lamb or by a pig ? Just for fun ? Just to satisfy the demands of tongue? Just to feed the Ego or show power ? To continue with what you have seen others as doing ? If you can kill why you should not kill ? Taste ! Everybody does it so I should also?.God has made them for killing only and has made me superior to them ! All these arguments , thoughts are advocated. None is valid! You had a licence of power, you misused that, you ignored the basics of humanity and hence you will be stripped of your powers ! Did you ever realise what kind of pain the fish or chicken or cow goes through ? No - so now realise that ? How ? Become that ! That is then becomes your fate! That is then becomes the dictum of mother nature for you ! That then becomes the punishment for you ! Of course, the benevolence of Paramatma is there in that also, because now you have become second character of trinity, can only move towards north. But would you like to first fall and then suffer and then rise upwards to become human again ?

Ø That is why you should not kill and should not be a non vegetarian ! It makes no difference to the God or World or the victim- IT MAKES DIFFERENCE TO YOU ! Look at the type of difference the killng others can make to you? You fall from the position of human being to the position of animal ! As a human being you could have gone to any heights - even become God ! But just to satisfy your tongue - you fell down to become an animal! SURELY- now the tongue will be the centre of attraction ! Tongue as good as that of frog, as good as that of snake ! As good as that of Cuckoo ! But what about you ! That is why you should not kill or motivate others to kill ! He who gave you power to kill can also take that power away from you and give the same power to that soul whom you killed or to that soul who has been appointed by Him to make you taste your own medicine ! BE SURE- when He does so, He does with 100 times more intensity than what you did ! He knows better than you the principles of Maths and the principles of interest calculation- simple, compound, and the rests of compounding the interest - daily rest or monthly rests or the yearly rests or the hourly rests ! Then where shall you be ? That is why you should not kill ! Many times we say this world has got only one law- the strong wins and the weak loses ! How many think as to how and why this law came into being ? Who is that weak ? Why is he weak? Why is some one strong? What are the duties of one who is strong ? Who made them weak or strong ? Why ? Can you not be made weak ??? One who made you strong and some one else as weak - is He not powerful enough to turn the tables? That is why you should not kill !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas, N B

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Hari OmNo egg. No alcoholic beverages or coffee. Sadly, we live in a world that bombards the vulnerable and impressionable with messages on the media - print and broadcast, and if parents are not careful and alert the young ones will adopt tamasic habits.

No cheese with rennet. Many soap bars have animal products as are seemingly vegetarian products, e.g. baked goods, cookies, ice-cream etc. Lard and gelatin are two common animal derivatives in many food items.

It is all up to us. No one can force you to eat or drink anything. Happiness and comfort should not be dependent on what you eat or drink but this is easier said and done unless one reaches a certain level of spirituality.

But, don't be discouraged if you falter. Persevere. Bhagavan is not there spying on all to see what they eat or drink. He is loving and forgiving, it is up to us to lead our lives as according to the scriptures.

Krishna S. Narinedath

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dear mr kaushal

There is no need for Bhagwan to say in Gita or elsewhere not to take non-veg. Man is by nature vegeratian. Non-veg animals will have such nails, teath, digestive system etc which can digest non-veg items. Man is having all the parts of his body suitable to digest vegetables. All non-veg animals drink water by their tongue. All veg animals drink water by mouth. Normally, a donkey is said to have far less brain/intelligentia. So we call those who does a foolish thing, a donkey, gathha. But we keep a donkey for ten days without giving any food or water and put in its front some flesh of an animal, give it some brandy, give it some tobacco. definitely it will not eat those items. If we keep a dog hungry and thirsty for few days give it some alcohol to drink. No it will not touch. Like the same with animals. You keep an elephant hungry for few days and give it some mutton or fish, it will not accept it. We claim that people are the intelligentia, people are the wise amongst all creatures, people are best out of God's creations., but it is, alas, in selecting the food, man has become worse than donkeys and dogs. Where is the intelligentia, where is the knowledge, where is the differentiating power, where is the VIVEK to distinguish what is good and what is bad for me, for my body, for my mind. When one is bodily little bit weak and if approaches a doctor, he will suggest to take egg, mutton etc . After few years when the same man is under some disease and if approaches the same doctor, he will tell you, all these complications happened because of your eating meat, egg etc. So stop it forthwith.

There are innumerable best things which are best suited for body. There is no need to tell somebody what is good for your body/mind. If donkeys and dogs are aware of it well and if man does'nt know, then such a lot is worse than that.

You are a vegetarian. Follow your principles. Live to hold it to its sanctity. Success will be yours.

best wishesvijayan-------Shree Hari-

Very little to say BUT, I agree with Ramesh Jhalla.Remember in other cultures and religions, there are vast dogmas of the do's anddon'ts w.r.t to food and drink.

The inner voice guiding one, is THAT which cuts through all dogmas.An evolution of thought that has guided me to where I am now.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

PS. Welcome home Sister.------------------------Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karmas". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" – greatly impure ! One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so we become !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians – that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread – are they not tasty? Blood and flesh – can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything is continued ? Don't worry, GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles,, lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, …..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Eating stool ? That also is edible, O Humans ! Many worms feed on that also. Wanna become those worms? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss the opportunity of being crawling insects. This is available in human life only. You are human. You are independent. Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of "spirituality" or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? No way !! But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. We are HUMANS !!

Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

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Dear Sadhaks, It was the year 1960. A young lieutenant in the Army posted at Jhansi went to his spiritual Guru, Sant Pritpal Singh. His mind was vexed. he had read so much about vegetarianism; the Bhagvada Geetha's appropriate shalokas arose in his mind, when he relished non-vegetarian food. Buddhas words, religious injunctions, the food habits in different cultures added to his turmoil of the mind, whenever questions on vegetarianism came up. He had decided to ask Pitajee, as the Sant Guru was popularly called by the many, who went to him for spiritual solace and guidance. Pitajee lovingly asked, " Speak about your mind, narinder. Do you feel like taking non-veg food, do you relish it ? Yes..... and there is a feeling of guilt , " replied young narinder . " Then eat... without any feeling of guilt. BUT................ to you, I would only say. Keep listening to Kirtan, read your scriptures regularly. Strive to move into true spiritual living guided by Satsang. Some day, the desire for non-veg food may vanish. Then, you shall truly know." And so life continued . One day, not many years later, sitting in a posh restaurant with friends, when narinder's favorite non -veg dish came on the table, the mind suddenly felt NO desire for meat. Narinder had become a vegetarian. And the spiritual movement continued. Jai Jai Krishna ................. Jai ! AUM Narinder Bhandari-------------------------

Gita is about the concept of God, the methods to realize God: Gita was notprobably intended to prescribe good or bad food. All beings select food to beeaten and not to be eaten through trial and error by observing the impact offood on health, longevity and stimulation of inherent chracteristics of body andmind. If one chooses a particular objective of good health, longer life andstimulation to spiritual activity, one may choose certain kinds of food that mayhelp contribute to the realisation of those objectives gven the person'sinherent body properties. What suit one may not suit another. Besides, manypersons or beings do not have really any choice over food given their incomesand the climate/ evironment they live in. Gita's purpose is to explain to humanbeings the blissful State of Godhood in men when they see everything as equal,lost their 'I'-ness ad ego and have become free from desire, attachment, angerand fear. A general prescription of foods involves attachment to body ad mind and therefore is not consistent with Gita's purpose.However, depending on the three Guna combination one has a person may beattracted by certain foods: the Yogi does not bother about choice of foods as heprogresses on his path to freedom.Basudeb Sen--------Dear All

Please note that We The Aryawarth gave Maths to the worldCOMPUTE THISThe World is already 90% Vegetarian in its consumptioneg. A Pot Roast / Meatloaf dinner is actually only 10% meat. The rest of the fayre is Beans, Corn, Potatoes, Cabbage, Salad, Ice Cream / Apple Pie.So Please forget The Veg uniqueness or contribution to world peace. In real terms we are Vegetarian in consumption another 10% shift is unlikely to change lives.Better that we Stop re-pressing the Aryawarth. Let Him be Free like Great Vayu.Here's a question that The Veg folks could answer. Q. Would the Vegetarian advocates create an Animal such as a defencless Doe incapable of retaliating then create a Large Fierce predator with Bone Crushing Jaws, Claws that could cut a man in two and speed that would outrun most animals. Then have such a predator pursue the poor doe and crush it for food??? Q. Would he who is ALL Capable watch a Great Guru who has acquired knowledge of Science & Maths, of Theology etc die from pain of Cardiac Arrest / Cancer etc??The Points are very simple. All that we see here is Maya (an illusion) it is a passing event. This life that we cling to is a physical form. It is dust and will return to dust. The Atmaa cannot be eaten. Preserve this. The focus on physicality belies a juvenile understanding of God's Creation.

Veda Shakti!

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PRIOR POSTING

I do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animalsFrom an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."We would not eat our pets. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Sophia-------------------Ram Ram,God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.Ashok Goenka-------------------------dear kaushal ji, natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous. let us see naturally in what category we fall. HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUSBlunt nails | sharpened pointed nailsSucking action - liguids | Licking action - LiquidsFlat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teethTemperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey.. After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you. ckkaul.-------------------------------Hari Om

Bhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.

But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.

Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.

Krishna S. Narinedath.----- Namastey all vegetarians and vegans, If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating. Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator.. Then the change in habit will be permanent. Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence. Ramesh Jhalla.---------------- Sir, QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian? podury------------------ the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence. Podury---------------------

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PRIOR POSTING

In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

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Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals.

....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

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Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram

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Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---

Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.

regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan

, "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

April 2, 2009

Pranam Group,I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------NEW POSTINGThe hallmark of Sanatan dharma is non

injury of ahimsa. In every action we need cause least injury. We will during

living cause some injury inadvertently. When we eat from bottom of food pyramid

rather from top we cause less injury as it takes less to produce those food

items. This is the basis of vegetarian diet.Anil Aggrawal-------------------------------Dear Kaushal ji,

"I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian."

Good to know. Kindly don't get swayed by their argument-cum-justifications for being non-veg because even a murderer would give justification.

Could

anybody please advise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can

find where Bhagvan Shri Krishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

I will confine myself here to only two lines from the Gita.

Gita 16:2 - AHINSA

(Harmlessness) is the first word of the first line. DAYA BHUTESHU

(Compassion to living beings) are the first two words of the second

line. There a lot of such quotes in the Holy Book.

Gita

17:8 - AAYUH SATTVABALAROGYA SUKH-PREETI-VIVARDHANAH / RASYAH SNIGTHAH

STHIRA HRIDYA AAHARAH SATTVIKPRIYAH.. The foods which increase life,

purity, strength, health, joy and cheerfulness which are savoury and

oleaginous, substantial and agreeable, are dear to the Pure.

Better

to be a vegetarian and the best is that we have to be selective in the

vegan diet also. For example, let us not chop the plant or branch where

birds are nesting. Let us not pluck the flowers because flowers are

giving nectar to many insects and birds. The best yardstick is to use

vegan (in fact all natural resources) to fulfill our needs, but not

desires.

As

you are aware that the human beings' consumption of natural resources

today has already crossed the earth's sustainable limits, thanks to

the western culture.

If

you seem to be feeling "defeated" in the argument-war between you

and your meat-eating friends. Just tell them the story of the frog who

accidentally fell into the well to be killed by the myopic

well-confined frogs. So better, please don't get into arguments with

them, because the danger is that instead of them joining your side, you

may join theirs. This is what is happening in the cities today.

Plants

also have feelings, but not in the same way as the animals do. But

there is no end to these arguments, this will remain a never-ending

fight between the two. I being an humble nature student regularly

observe the disturbing facts how our farmers are resorting to

dangerous chemicals to kill insects, then birds and then other

creatures.

Besides

the pleas put forth by the vociferous learned sadhaks on this forum,

the one mentioned by compassionate Mike can also be your/our guidance.

Equally

appealing is Sophia's simple and heart-touching truth. I have

broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into

its eyes, so human. Look, simplicity is beautiful, but

we the so-called human-beings are getting complicated. Nobel

prize-winner for English literature T.S. Eliot was right when he

wrote, Most of the problems are caused by those people who want to

become important This applies to us also, if we want to become important by impressing others with our so-called "knowledge".

To sum it up, I call a movie "Noting Hill" in which the Hollywood

actress of fame Julia Roberts says, I do not eat meat because the

slaughtered animals too had emotions just like us. Therefore,

Sophia's hugging a pig does not depend on others doing the same

thing. ADAVESHTA SARVABHUTANAM MAITRAH KARUNAH EV CHA (Gita 12:13) (He/she who hates no creature, who is friendly and compassionate to all is dear to Me).

Live and let live. Isn't this what the Julia Roberts of our divine forum Shashikala Jee Jee says!

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma -----------------------

My dear friend, I too would like to share my feelings regarding

vegetarianism; We believe in Ahimsa, great people who made history are

vegetarians. Bernard shaw wrote in his song of Peace that My stomach

should not b3e a grave yard for dead animals.I do not hink the plants

will have brains to feel. Because the feelings of fear joy will come

only through brain. Even Our Vaswaniji a jain Munie once told on World

Vegetarian Day, that the pain that may be caused to te vegetables is

too minimal .There are group ofpeople who are called ;vegans" who will

not take animal fats like milk curd etc.that may not be practable.

Enough we are vegetarians either or by birth or choice. with best

wishes, jayashree sarathy PRIOR POSTING -----------Dear Sadaks,Bagavan has said in Bakthi Marg and in Baktha Vijayam that to see HIM in a dog, donkey, leprosy person, earth worm etc Only to purify our thoughts. One sadak has said this will give compassion and wisdom. If one expects to have compasion and wisdom, he should practice them in loving animals.All sadaks can read a script MANASHA PANCHAKAM that tells about this same subject. There is answers for all your queries. This is the dialogue between Adi Sankara and Bagavan Shiva.Human brain and knowledge gained by it. If one can feel or see the suffering of animals being killed, he is normal human. But he who does not, then he is preparing himself to be born over several births as animals to be slaughtered. If the same human can understand by knowledge scientifically that plants and leaves have life, then he is upper class of human(Wiseman). But by creation of GOD, one cannot physically see or feel the plants, vegatables, Etc beeing cut is acceptable as food for survival. But if one can see physically pain in animal, then he should not opt for Non Vegetarian.There were Yogies like Jada Bharath in Srimath Bagavath, who ate only fallen fruits/vegatables/leaves on ground. He was so consciess not to trample over an ant. In his previous birth as a deer, he ate only dry grass/leaves/fallen fruits. This deer had Sumrthies (Ability to remember earlier birth) since it was as Bharatha Yogiswar abundant yogic power.One of the 63 Shiva saints sang, that he saw Shiva in leave, flower, tree, fruit etc and he said, ""Oh Bagavan YOU are filled in everything, and I have nothing to offer"". But again there were Bakthas who gave flowers and garlands to Bagavan. Here what you give or do pooja with 1000 leaves is not matter. It is Bagavan`s words, "Pushpam, Patram, Palam, Thoyam---------:", that one gives with tears in his eyes and his heart filled with devotion, his thoughts all concentrated on Bagavan. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------MOKSHA Need clarification about Ahimsa, Maya's activity, one's Karma and related Destiny when there there is no Death or Suffering of the Soul.... I am unclear as to the strange dichotomy of understanding that yes all is maya, passing , a dream transitory phenomena, be non attached do not grasp desire mourn crave etc. at the same time we must adhere to ethics no? QUESTION: Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomeneom and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt? but this is the experiential physical plane of so called mayic activity where we do have experience and have what animals do not have the grace of choice and discrimination and the grace of bhakti. the grace of ahimsa. there is an extreme perception i think that needs to be adjusted. its like the stories of widowed elderly women being left at bus stations abandoned by their families and saying its ok its their karma. if we do not generate compassion live in compassion be compassion and just say well its karma or its all a passing dream if we do not choose to non-harm we are deluded in sorry. perhaps Gita needs to be explained better. while ultimately it is true there is no death or suffering i would not take my cat rip its skin off and boil it alive and tell it or myself it is not suffering or any other sentient being that is suffering. that it is not real. Sophia---------------Jai HanumanBeautiful messages from our brethren. KC Giriji covered all aspects. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karma". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" greatly impure !One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so becomes our mind! As is our mind so are we !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians' that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread " are they not tasty? Blood and flesh can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything and everything is continued ?GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, â€¦..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss any opportunity of being animals and crawling insects. This opportunity is available ONLY in human life - . You are human. You are independent. You can choose to become whatever you want in next birth. Your mind chooses that. That mind by eating animals and loving their flesh can choose what ? Wake up, Jee !Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of â€œspiritualityâ€ or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? Very very unlikely.But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. He is very honest in granting us independence. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Pls don't qualify yourself for such births. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. Very Very easy to get. If we like flesh we shall be given teeth, stomach, appetite also benevolently and accordingly by Mom Nature ! But We are at present HUMANS !! Can we not think higher? If not now, when?Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala----- Namaste Reasons for becoming Vegeterian First of all Human being do not have the necessary system for the Non veg food. Digestive system of animals is very short,further teeth are also pointed. Whereas Human being is having long digestive system. The non veg. food gets deteriorated inside the human digestive system thus creating harm to the system. Non veg food contains more of phosphorus & other elements harmful for bones.Further to make non veg food more tasty the elements used are also causing harm to the body. The WBC of blood treats non veg food as Antibody & tries to expel it out. Hence is the smell coming out after eating non veg food. I think this explanation is enough. Regards Bhavin Shah---- Sir, Vedas preach Vegetarianism only. Geetha which is loyal to Veda cannot think otherwise. Let it be understood that Vedas are supreme over any scriptures which includes Geetha also. The matter whether Meat eating good or not has been examined and appropriate reply furnished in various the Vedic portals where you can tackle meat eaters with intelligent arguments. you can search on "meat eating proper or improper" Thanking you, Vasudevarao.--------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Vasudevaji, we do not allow links to this forum, kindly include any important information in your response. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------1) Human Body is not meant to digest meat.2) You may not find in Geeta. But does tell us that Lord Kirshna has lots of Love for Cows and Animals. You are not supposed to entertain or please yourself by torturing the innocent animals.3) Please search on various sites on "Vegetarian" and importance of being vegetarian. Also, Sciecne has proven the people who are vegetarian are less at risk to all kind of desease than those who are non vegetarian. If you want live a healy life, "BE VEG-STAY HEALTHY" JAI SRI RAM! Ajit Patel------If one is on the spiritual path then you don't have to leave bad habits. Bad habits leave you. Drinking, drugs and eating meat are the bad habits that are obstacles on our spiritual journey. But then one man's meat is another's poison. So it is not Gita but your own conscience that will stop you from eating meat, when the time comes Hari Shanker Deo --------Shree Hari Ram RamHari Shanker Deoji, Swamiji says that if a sadhak knows something to be bad (wrong, evil action), the responsibility lies within him to not do it. We are independent in the performance of our actions. The only reason we continue doing evil is desire for enjoyment of pleasures (bhog) and accumulation of material things / wealth (sangraha). These are up to us to give up as we have the freedom of choice. If we is unable to do so, we can seek God's help by calling out to Him. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGPranam Group,I am a vegetarian, and believe in a philosophy that one does not have the right to take away something which I cant give --- LIFE. We don't have a right to kill animals to satisfy our taste buds. Regards, Balveer.-Hari OmThere has indeed been a good participation on this subject. I liked immensely the messages of all sadhaks on the subject. Ashokji, Rameshji Jhalla , C K Kaul and Sophiaji, to name a few. Welcome Sophiaji. Hope you are now rejuvenated. But the message of Sadhak Krishna S Narinedath is different . He beautifully narrated a universal fact- God is dis-interested witness. He gave us Gita, Scriptures, Conscience and human birth. Now it is for us to think. Certainly God is not going to put the things to a grinding halt. I have some thoughts on the subject. I am not on advantages or disadvantages of meat eating. I am on Law of Karma and Paramatma governing the same. Slightly long posting, I hope Sadhaks will bear with me. I want all non-vegetarians to THINK. At the outset, it actually does not matter from God's point of view as to who is getting killed. All are his children and the creation is "immortal" from his point of view. That is why he does not object directly or puts the things to a grinding halt even if you kill any one of his creations including his most loved creation -- THE HOLY COW ! That is the God - watching, tolerating, the action of one child vis-a-vis his another child ! But he maintains the record, he has his own method of bringing the errant child to his senses ! He can afford to wait, he loves all equally. That is the point of view of one element of the trinity – God ! The second element is the one who got killed- cow, fish, pig, chicken, prawn, goat etc. Nobody can get killed as per Gita ! (Chapter 2). One who got killed in fact would never regret after getting killed because in fact it (say he ) has become purer ! In fact he has reaped what he sowed and is now debt free ! He in fact is the happiest among the three- though to the third party he may be appearing to be the helpless victim ! But that is between him and God only. The third character of trinity is meat eater. I will call him for brevity's sake murderer or butcher. Now come to the murderer ! What right he had to annihilate any creature from this world? Did he create them? Was he nourishing or feeding them ? What harm those creatures caused to him? What was the mistake made vis-a-vis him by the holy Cow or by Fish or by a chicken or by a lamb or by a pig ? Just for fun ? Just to satisfy the demands of tongue? Just to feed the Ego or show power ? To continue with what you have seen others as doing ? If you can kill why you should not kill ? Taste ! Everybody does it so I should also?.God has made them for killing only and has made me superior to them ! All these arguments , thoughts are advocated. None is valid! You had a licence of power, you misused that, you ignored the basics of humanity and hence you will be stripped of your powers ! Did you ever realise what kind of pain the fish or chicken or cow goes through ? No - so now realise that ? How ? Become that ! That is then becomes your fate! That is then becomes the dictum of mother nature for you ! That then becomes the punishment for you ! Of course, the benevolence of Paramatma is there in that also, because now you have become second character of trinity, can only move towards north. But would you like to first fall and then suffer and then rise upwards to become human again ?Ø That is why you should not kill and should not be a non vegetarian ! It makes no difference to the God or World or the victim- IT MAKES DIFFERENCE TO YOU ! Look at the type of difference the killng others can make to you? You fall from the position of human being to the position of animal ! As a human being you could have gone to any heights - even become God ! But just to satisfy your tongue - you fell down to become an animal! SURELY- now the tongue will be the centre of attraction ! Tongue as good as that of frog, as good as that of snake ! As good as that of Cuckoo ! But what about you ! That is why you should not kill or motivate others to kill ! He who gave you power to kill can also take that power away from you and give the same power to that soul whom you killed or to that soul who has been appointed by Him to make you taste your own medicine ! BE SURE- when He does so, He does with 100 times more intensity than what you did ! He knows better than you the principles of Maths and the principles of interest calculation- simple, compound, and the rests of compounding the interest - daily rest or monthly rests or the yearly rests or the hourly rests ! Then where shall you be ? That is why you should not kill ! Many times we say this world has got only one law- the strong wins and the weak loses ! How many think as to how and why this law came into being ? Who is that weak ? Why is he weak? Why is some one strong? What are the duties of one who is strong ? Who made them weak or strong ? Why ? Can you not be made weak ??? One who made you strong and some one else as weak - is He not powerful enough to turn the tables? That is why you should not kill ! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas, N B-----------Hari OmNo egg. No alcoholic beverages or coffee. Sadly, we live in a world that bombards the vulnerable and impressionable with messages on the media - print and broadcast, and if parents are not careful and alert theyoung ones will adopt tamasic habits.No cheese with rennet. Many soap bars have animal products as are seemingly vegetarian products, e.g. baked goods, cookies, ice-cream etc. Lard and gelatin are two common animal derivatives in many food items.It is all up to us. No one can force you to eat or drink anything. Happiness and comfort should not be dependent on what you eat or drink but this is easier said and done unless one reaches a certain level of spirituality.But, don't be discouraged if you falter. Persevere. Bhagavan is not there spying on all to see what they eat or drink. He is loving and forgiving, it is up to us to lead our lives as according to the scriptures.Krishna S. Narinedath-----dear mr kaushalThere is no need for Bhagwan to say in Gita or elsewhere not to take non-veg. Man is by nature vegeratian. Non-veg animals will have such nails, teath, digestive system etc which can digest non-veg items. Man is having all the parts of his body suitable to digest vegetables. All non-veg animals drink water by their tongue. All veg animals drink water by mouth. Normally, a donkey is said to have far less brain/intelligentia. So we call those who does a foolish thing, a donkey, gathha. But we keep a donkey for ten days without giving any food or water and put in its front some flesh of an animal, give it some brandy, give it some tobacco. definitely it will not eat those items. If we keep a dog hungry and thirsty for few days give it some alcohol to drink. No it will not touch. Like the same with animals. You keep an elephant hungry for few days and give it some mutton or fish, it will not accept it. We claim that people are the intelligentia, people are the wise amongst all creatures, people are best out of God's creations., but it is, alas, in selecting the food, man has become worse than donkeys and dogs. Where is the intelligentia, where is the knowledge, where is the differentiating power, where is the VIVEK to distinguish what is good and what is bad for me, for my body, for my mind. When one is bodily little bit weak and if approaches a doctor, he will suggest to take egg, mutton etc . After few years when the same man is under some disease and if approaches the same doctor, he will tell you, all these complications happened because of your eating meat, egg etc. So stop it forthwith.There are innumerable best things which are best suited for body. There is no need to tell somebody what is good for your body/mind. If donkeys and dogs are aware of it well and if man does'nt know, then such a lot is worse than that.You are a vegetarian. Follow your principles. Live to hold it to its sanctity. Success will be yours. best wishesvijayan-------Shree Hari-Very little to say BUT, I agree with Ramesh Jhalla.Remember in other cultures and religions, there are vast dogmas of the do's anddon'ts w.r.t to food and drink.The inner voice guiding one, is THAT which cuts through all dogmas.An evolution of thought that has guided me to where I am now.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).PS. Welcome home Sister.------------------------Jai HanumanBeautiful messages from our brethren. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karmas". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" – greatly impure ! One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so we become !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians – that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread – are they not tasty? Blood and flesh – can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything is continued ? Don't worry, GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles,, lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, …..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Eating stool ? That also is edible, O Humans ! Many worms feed on that also. Wanna become those worms? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss the opportunity of being crawling insects. This is available in human life only. You are human. You are independent. Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of "spirituality" or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? No way !! But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. We are HUMANS !! Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ----Dear Sadhaks, It was the year 1960. A young lieutenant in the Army posted at Jhansi went to his spiritual Guru, Sant Pritpal Singh. His mind was vexed. he had read so much about vegetarianism; the Bhagvada Geetha's appropriate shalokas arose in his mind, when he relished non-vegetarian food. Buddhas words, religious injunctions, the food habits in different cultures added to his turmoil of the mind, whenever questions on vegetarianism came up. He had decided to ask Pitajee, as the Sant Guru was popularly called by the many, who went to him for spiritual solace and guidance. Pitajee lovingly asked, " Speak about your mind, narinder. Do you feel like taking non-veg food, do you relish it ? Yes..... and there is a feeling of guilt , " replied young narinder . " Then eat... without any feeling of guilt. BUT................ to you, I would only say. Keep listening to Kirtan, read your scriptures regularly. Strive to move into true spiritual living guided by Satsang.Some day, the desire for non-veg food may vanish. Then, you shall truly know." And so life continued . One day, not many years later, sitting in a posh restaurant with friends, when narinder's favorite non -veg dish came on the table, the mind suddenly felt NO desire for meat. Narinder had become a vegetarian. And the spiritual movement continued.Jai Jai Krishna ................. Jai ! AUM Narinder Bhandari-------------------------Gita is about the concept of God, the methods to realize God: Gita was notprobably intended to prescribe good or bad food. All beings select food to beeaten and not to be eaten through trial and error by observing the impact offood on health, longevity and stimulation of inherent chracteristics of body andmind. If one chooses a particular objective of good health, longer life andstimulation to spiritual activity, one may choose certain kinds of food that mayhelp contribute to the realisation of those objectives gven the person'sinherent body properties. What suit one may not suit another. Besides, manypersons or beings do not have really any choice over food given their incomesand the climate/ evironment they live in. Gita's purpose is to explain to humanbeings the blissful State of Godhood in men when they see everything as equal,lost their 'I'-ness ad ego and have become free from desire, attachment, angerand fear. A general prescription of foods involves attachment to body ad mind and therefore is not consistent with Gita's purpose.However, depending on the three Guna combination one has a person may beattracted by certain foods: the Yogi does not bother about choice of foods as heprogresses on his path to freedom.Basudeb Sen--------Dear AllPlease note that We The Aryawarth gave Maths to the worldCOMPUTE THISThe World is already 90% Vegetarian in its consumptioneg. A Pot Roast / Meatloaf dinner is actually only 10% meat. The rest of the fayre is Beans, Corn, Potatoes, Cabbage, Salad, Ice Cream / Apple Pie.So Please forget The Veg uniqueness or contribution to world peace. In real terms we are Vegetarian in consumption another 10% shift is unlikely to change lives.Better that we Stop re-pressing the Aryawarth. Let Him be Free like Great Vayu.Here's a question that The Veg folks could answer. Q. Would the Vegetarian advocates create an Animal such as a defencless Doe incapable of retaliating then create a Large Fierce predator with Bone Crushing Jaws, Claws that could cut a man in two and speed that would outrun most animals. Then have such a predator pursue the poor doe and crush it for food??? Q. Would he who is ALL Capable watch a Great Guru who has acquired knowledge of Science & Maths, of Theology etc die from pain of Cardiac Arrest / Cancer etc??The Points are very simple. All that we see here is Maya (an illusion) it is a passing event. This life that we cling to is a physical form. It is dust and will return to dust. The Atmaa cannot be eaten. Preserve this. The focus on physicality belies a juvenile understanding of God's Creation.Veda Shakti! --------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGI do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animalsFrom an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."We would not eat our pets. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Sophia-------------------Ram Ram,God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.Ashok Goenka-------------------------dear kaushal ji, natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous.let us see naturally in what category we fall. HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUSBlunt nails | sharpened pointed nailsSucking action - liguids | Licking action - LiquidsFlat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teethTemperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey.. After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you. ckkaul.-------------------------------Hari OmBhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.Krishna S. Narinedath.----- Namastey all vegetarians and vegans, If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating. Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator.. Then the change in habit will be permanent. Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence. Ramesh Jhalla.---------------- Sir, QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian? podury------------------ the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence. Podury--------------------- ---------------PRIOR POSTINGIn bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .Hare krishna.Dr iragavarapu--------------------Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals....Gee Waman--------------------Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up onWhy Should I Become a Vegetarian?The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.KCGiri-Shree HariRam ramThose who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?". /message/1340/message/1317At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED! A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion. Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly. Meera DasRam Ram----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:/message/627Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram------------------Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan , "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

April 11, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Clearing PENDING QUEUE... Ram Ram

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Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

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The Inner Side of Vegetarianism

"When we realize that any physical object has all the levels which we do, namely, the physical, biomagnetic, sensory, intellectual and will bodies, we can understand the importance of the kind and quality of food we eat. For not only does the physical substance of the food become assimilated into our physical body, so also do the subtler energies become united to our inner levels."

How do you know ALL physical objects have an intellectual and a will body? How do you know a vegetable has an intellectual body for instance?

The Sankhya Philosophy (and all the other darshana orthodox systems of Indian philosophy), which includes the oldest form of Physics, postulates that all material objects possess five levels or koshas (sheaths/bodies).

The universe is considered to have five layers that correspond to the five Cosmic Elements (Mahabhutas or Panchabhutas). The Primal Element, of course, is Pure Consciousness Itself "God, Brahman, or Paramatman. On this ocean of Consciousness everything is based or floating. Akasha, the Etheric Element, floats upon Consciousness, Vayu, the Air Element, floats upon Akasha, Agni, the Fire Element, floats upon Vayu, Apa, the Water, Element, floats upon Agni, and Prithvi, the Earth Element, floats upon Apa. Nothing can exist in the material world that is not supported by the other five levels or elements. Thus all things possess five layers or bodies. These elements or bodies are really bands or bundles of energies.

In most objects, the levels are purely potential, or at best dimly awakened. But in sentient beings, they are all active, though in varying degrees according to the level of evolution. The bodies correspond to atomic, biomagnetic, sensory-mind, intellectual, and will energies or levels (faculties). In the human being these five are alive "but the degree of life also depends on individual evolution.

Vegetables possess all levels, mostly in the form of "raw" or unconditioned life energies (prana). Thus they absorb readily into our bodies and the subtle levels of our being, and become conditioned by our thoughts and the present vibratory character of our bodies.

This is not true of animals. Rather, all their levels are conditioned and locked into the vibratory patterns proper to their species. Thus, when we eat them we graft the animal bodies into our human bodies and create conflict and havoc, darkening "and distorting"our minds to an incalculable extent. Eating meat is one of the worse things we can do to ourselves, and it renders the practice of yoga and the wakening of higher consciousness virtually impossible.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sophiaji's issues have to be dealt with as they are genuine inquiries against the teaching of Gita in the context of Vedanta! I admire all her posts asking or sharing issues of importance!

Q:Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomenon and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt?

A: Certainly not! The world is not passing phenomenon unless it is realized as such. The world seems so real consisting of separate objects. One of such objects is body-mind I call "I/me". It is perceived just the same as all other objects are perceived only! But we take body-mind to be the real subject "I/me". It is like telescope taking itself as seer of a distant star! Obviously it is an object of the subject Scientist.Thus "I/me" is the object, in the ONLY Subject Awareness-God-Atman. The perceived world of course is Maya and illusory, not the world in itself which is one whole Existence, not separate perceived objects!If we stand as Awareness, even as body-mind(nature) hurts, we-Awareness are never hurt, and also we cannot hurt or abuse anyone. We know that those who hurt us don't have this realization, and we have to live amongst them. So Non-violence, Compassion, Love comes out of us towards all. One automatically takes actions based on wisdom that comes from this Understanding! You just cannot kill, hurt, abuse for the fun of it or get hurt or abused with this understanding; it is impossible to do that even to cats and dogs. In the worldof relativity, our actions emerge from the Absolute Truth we are! More on Karma perspective laterNamaskar ...........Pratap Bhatt-

Dear Sadhaks,I see this topic of food has been thoroughly discussed by many saadhaks, with much fervor.Bhagavad-Gita (BG) are the words of Bhagwaan on eternal principles, applicable to all times, places and people. So it is more concerned about those principles with regard to food as well, without actually giving us a menu!Below are some verses from BG related to food.

BG 3:13The wise eat food that remains after being offered to yagÃ±a,

and thus they are released from all evils;

but the wicked prepare food for their own sake,

and indeed they live on sin alone.

Anything we consume, we should do so as prasaad(gift from God).

Even if we eat a dry leaf that fell on its own accord,

we must not do so with arrogance

(â€˜I found it, it is Mine, and I will eat itâ€™).

[Just ask yourself what food was offered in a typical Vedic yagÃ±a]Because that kind of worship is uncommon now, on a daily basis,we can only offer mentally to God whatever we are eating. Thank him for his blessings and eat it. Then it becomes sanctified].

BG 5: 18A wise person sees the same "supreme"

in a brahmin endowed with knowledge and humility,

in a cow, in an elephant, in a dog .

The wise look at the same inner spirit in all these beings

rather than their external differences.

Bg 17:7The food, which is dear to a person is of three kinds,

just as with the ways of yagna, dana or tapah.

Listen, as I explain the distinctions between them.

Yagna is wo rship/sacrifice; dana is charity; tapah is austerity/penance.

BG 17:8Foods which promote longevity, vitality, endurance,

health, happiness and contentment;

foods that are tasty, mild, nourishing and pleasant

are dear to those of the nature of sattva.

BG 17:9Those of the nature of rajas prefer

foods that are bitter, sour, salty,

excessively spicy, pungent, dry and scorching.

This causes pain, sorrow and sickness.

Bg 17:10Foods that are not freshly made, insipid, stale,

rotten, left-over, filthy and unhygienic

are dear to those of the nature of tamas.

Love

Koti Sreekrishna

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My dear friend, I too would like to share my feelings regarding vegetarianism; We believe in Ahimsa, great people who made history are vegetarians. Bernard shaw wrote in his song of Peace that My stomach should not b3e a grave yard for dead animals.I do not hink the plants will have brains to feel. Because the feelings of fear joy will come only through brain. Even Our Vaswaniji a jain Munie once told on World Vegetarian Day, that the pain that may be caused to te vegetables is too minimal .There are group ofpeople who are called ;vegans" who will not take animal fats like milk curd etc.that may not be practable. Enough we are vegetarians either or by birth or choice. with best wishes, jayashree sarathy

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Why should one be a Vegetarian ? Does Gita say not to Eat Meat?I read somewhere … "Some Sadhus in Himalayas got some not-so-delicious food. They turned the food into delicious Jalebees and ate". If it happened literally, I pity the poor Sadhus for mastering such miraculous Vidyas - the crave for Jalebees and aversion for tasteless food have gone stronger within! But, on theother hand, if they ate the tasteless food with the same reverence as they would eat the Jalebees with and vice versa ... THAT MAKES SENSE ...One who do not know how to eat should be prescribed with what to eat to facilitate the learning of how to eat. For one who knows how to eat, what prescription would be needed? For one who does not know how to eat (that covers many of us), prescriptions are required and are made in The Gita.But, the prescriptions are made to attain the vegetarian attitude within - to eat what is in the platter respectfully to support the natural sustenance of the system leaving no room for either craves or for aversions. Eating vegetables does not suffice that … but, it may help the system appreciate the fact morenaturally backed up by the awareness of the need for developing vegetarian outlook within ... flushing out the crave for the likes and the aversion for the dislikes ... As far as that is happening within, what we "eat", what we "do", what we "see" or "hear" or "taste" or "smell" or "touch", what we "think", what we "enjoy", etc. - If that is not happening within naturally, the only other way is to borrow external help ... to cut down the supplies fueling our craves and aversions TO EXPERIENCE THE DIFFERENCE WITHIN ... ONLY TO ATTAIN FREEDOM WITHIN FROM THE CLUTCHES OF THE INHERENT CRAVES AND AVERSIONS ... Whatever helps toward that end IS vegetarianism in my opinion ...Respects.Naga Narayana.

PRIOR POSTING

The hallmark of Sanatan dharma is non injury of ahimsa. In every action we need cause least injury. We will during living cause some injury inadvertently. When we eat from bottom of food pyramid rather from top we cause less injury as it takes less to produce those food items. This is the basis of vegetarian diet.

Anil Aggrawal

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Dear Kaushal ji, "I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian." Good to know. Kindly don't get swayed by their argument-cum-justifications for being non-veg because even a murderer would give justification. Could anybody please advise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan Shri Krishna has mentioned about not to eat meat? I will confine myself here to only two lines from the Gita. Gita 16:2 - AHINSA (Harmlessness) is the first word of the first line. DAYA BHUTESHU (Compassion to living beings) are the first two words of the second line. There a lot of such quotes in the Holy Book. Gita 17:8 - AAYUH SATTVABALAROGYA SUKH-PREETI-VIVARDHANAH / RASYAH SNIGTHAH STHIRA HRIDYA AAHARAH SATTVIKPRIYAH.. The foods which increase life, purity, strength, health, joy and cheerfulness which are savoury and oleaginous, substantial and agreeable, are dear to the Pure. Better to be a vegetarian and the best is that we have to be selective in the vegan diet also. For example, let us not chop the plant or branch where birds are nesting. Let us not pluck the flowers because flowers are giving nectar to many insects and birds. The best yardstick is to use vegan (in fact all natural resources) to fulfill our needs, but not desires. As you are aware that the human beings' consumption of natural resources today has already crossed the earth's sustainable limits, thanks to the western culture.If you seem to be feeling "defeated" in the argument-war between you and your meat-eating friends. Just tell them the story of the frog who accidentally fell into the well to be killed by the myopic well-confined frogs. So better, please don't get into arguments with them, because the danger is that instead of them joining your side, you may join theirs. This is what is happening in the cities today. Plants also have feelings, but not in the same way as the animals do. But there is no end to these arguments, this will remain a never-ending fight between the two. I being an humble nature student regularly observe the disturbing facts how our farmers are resorting to dangerous chemicals to kill insects, then birds and then other creatures. Besides the pleas put forth by the vociferous learned sadhaks on this forum, the one mentioned by compassionate Mike can also be your/our guidance. Equally appealing is Sophia's simple and heart-touching truth. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Look, simplicity is beautiful, but we the so-called human-beings are getting complicated. Nobel prize-winner for English literature T.S. Eliot was right when he wrote, Most of the problems are caused by those people who want to become important This applies to us also, if we want to become important by impressing others with our so-called "knowledge". To sum it up, I call a movie "Noting Hill" in which the Hollywood actress of fame Julia Roberts says, I do not eat meat because the slaughtered animals too had emotions just like us. Therefore, Sophia's hugging a pig does not depend on others doing the same thing. ADAVESHTA SARVABHUTANAM MAITRAH KARUNAH EV CHA (Gita 12:13) (He/she who hates no creature, who is friendly and compassionate to all is dear to Me). Live and let live. Isn't this what the Julia Roberts of our divine forum Shashikala Jee Jee says! Regards, Suresh C Sharma

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My dear friend, I too would like to share my feelings regarding vegetarianism; We believe in Ahimsa, great people who made history are vegetarians. Bernard shaw wrote in his song of Peace that My stomach should not b3e a grave yard for dead animals.I do not hink the plants will have brains to feel. Because the feelings of fear joy will come only through brain. Even Our Vaswaniji a jain Munie once told on World Vegetarian Day, that the pain that may be caused to te vegetables is too minimal .There are group ofpeople who are called ;vegans" who will not take animal fats like milk curd etc.that may not be practable. Enough we are vegetarians either or by birth or choice. with best wishes, jayashree sarathy

PRIOR POSTING

-----------Dear Sadaks,Bagavan has said in Bakthi Marg and in Baktha Vijayam that to see HIM in a dog, donkey, leprosy person, earth worm etc Only to purify our thoughts. One sadak has said this will give compassion and wisdom. If one expects to have compasion and wisdom, he should practice them in loving animals.All sadaks can read a script MANASHA PANCHAKAM that tells about this same subject. There is answers for all your queries. This is the dialogue between Adi Sankara and Bagavan Shiva.Human brain and knowledge gained by it. If one can feel or see the suffering of animals being killed, he is normal human. But he who does not, then he is preparing himself to be born over several births as animals to be slaughtered. If the same human can understand by knowledge scientifically that plants and leaves have life, then he is upper class of human(Wiseman). But by creation of GOD, one cannot physically see or feel the plants, vegatables, Etc beeing cut is acceptable as food for survival. But if one can see physically pain in animal, then he should not opt for Non Vegetarian.There were Yogies like Jada Bharath in Srimath Bagavath, who ate only fallen fruits/vegatables/leaves on ground. He was so consciess not to trample over an ant. In his previous birth as a deer, he ate only dry grass/leaves/fallen fruits. This deer had Sumrthies (Ability to remember earlier birth) since it was as Bharatha Yogiswar abundant yogic power.One of the 63 Shiva saints sang, that he saw Shiva in leave, flower, tree, fruit etc and he said, ""Oh Bagavan YOU are filled in everything, and I have nothing to offer"". But again there were Bakthas who gave flowers and garlands to Bagavan. Here what you give or do pooja with 1000 leaves is not matter. It is Bagavan`s words, "Pushpam, Patram, Palam, Thoyam---------:", that one gives with tears in his eyes and his heart filled with devotion, his thoughts all concentrated on Bagavan. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------MOKSHA Need clarification about Ahimsa, Maya's activity, one's Karma and related Destiny when there there is no Death or Suffering of the Soul.... I am unclear as to the strange dichotomy of understanding that yes all is maya, passing , a dream transitory phenomena, be non attached do not grasp desire mourn crave etc. at the same time we must adhere to ethics no? QUESTION: Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomeneom and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt? but this is the experiential physical plane of so called mayic activity where we do have experience and have what animals do not have the grace of choice and discrimination and the grace of bhakti. the grace of ahimsa. there is an extreme perception i think that needs to be adjusted. its like the stories of widowed elderly women being left at bus stations abandoned by their families and saying its ok its their karma. if we do not generate compassion live in compassion be compassion and just say well its karma or its all a passing dream if we do not choose to non-harm we are deluded in sorry. perhaps Gita needs to be explained better. while ultimately it is true there is no death or suffering i would not take my cat rip its skin off and boil it alive and tell it or myself it is not suffering or any other sentient being that is suffering. that it is not real. Sophia---------------

Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. KC Giriji covered all aspects. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karma". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" greatly impure !

One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so becomes our mind! As is our mind so are we !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians' that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread " are they not tasty? Blood and flesh can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything and everything is continued ?

GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, â€¦..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss any opportunity of being animals and crawling insects. This opportunity is available ONLY in human life - . You are human. You are independent. You can choose to become whatever you want in next birth. Your mind chooses that. That mind by eating animals and loving their flesh can choose what ? Wake up, Jee !

Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of â€œspiritualityâ€ or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? Very very unlikely.But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. He is very honest in granting us independence. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Pls don't qualify yourself for such births. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. Very Very easy to get. If we like flesh we shall be given teeth, stomach, appetite also benevolently and accordingly by Mom Nature ! But We are at present HUMANS !! Can we not think higher? If not now, when?Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee JeeShashikala----- Namaste Reasons for becoming Vegeterian First of all Human being do not have the necessary system for the Non veg food. Digestive system of animals is very short,further teeth are also pointed. Whereas Human being is having long digestive system. The non veg. food gets deteriorated inside the human digestive system thus creating harm to the system. Non veg food contains more of phosphorus & other elements harmful for bones.Further to make non veg food more tasty the elements used are also causing harm to the body. The WBC of blood treats non veg food as Antibody & tries to expel it out. Hence is the smell coming out after eating non veg food. I think this explanation is enough. Regards Bhavin Shah---- Sir,

Vedas preach Vegetarianism only. Geetha which is loyal to Veda cannot think otherwise. Let it be understood that Vedas are supreme over any scriptures which includes Geetha also. The matter whether Meat eating good or not has been examined and appropriate reply furnished in various the Vedic portals where you can tackle meat eaters with intelligent arguments. you can search on "meat eating proper or improper" Thanking you, Vasudevarao.--------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Vasudevaji, we do not allow links to this forum, kindly include any important information in your response. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------1) Human Body is not meant to digest meat.2) You may not find in Geeta. But does tell us that Lord Kirshna has lots of Love for Cows and Animals. You are not supposed to entertain or please yourself by torturing the innocent animals.3) Please search on various sites on "Vegetarian" and importance of being vegetarian. Also, Sciecne has proven the people who are vegetarian are less at risk to all kind of desease than those who are non vegetarian. If you want live a healy life, "BE VEG-STAY HEALTHY" JAI SRI RAM! Ajit Patel------

If one is on the spiritual path then you don't have to leave bad habits. Bad habits leave you. Drinking, drugs and eating meat are the bad habits that are obstacles on our spiritual journey. But then one man's meat is another's poison. So it is not Gita but your own conscience that will stop you from eating meat, when the time comes

Hari Shanker Deo

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Hari Shanker Deoji, Swamiji says that if a sadhak knows something to be bad (wrong, evil action), the responsibility lies within him to not do it. We are independent in the performance of our actions. The only reason we continue doing evil is desire for enjoyment of pleasures (bhog) and accumulation of material things / wealth (sangraha). These are up to us to give up as we have the freedom of choice. If we is unable to do so, we can seek God's help by calling out to Him. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian, and believe in a philosophy that one does not have the right to take away something which I cant give --- LIFE. We don't have a right to kill animals to satisfy our taste buds. Regards, Balveer.

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Hari Om

There has indeed been a good participation on this subject. I liked immensely the messages of all sadhaks on the subject. Ashokji, Rameshji Jhalla , C K Kaul and Sophiaji, to name a few. Welcome Sophiaji. Hope you are now rejuvenated. But the message of Sadhak Krishna S Narinedath is different . He beautifully narrated a universal fact- God is dis-interested witness. He gave us Gita, Scriptures, Conscience and human birth. Now it is for us to think. Certainly God is not going to put the things to a grinding halt. I have some thoughts on the subject. I am not on advantages or disadvantages of meat eating. I am on Law of Karma and Paramatma governing the same. Slightly long posting, I hope Sadhaks will bear with me. I want all non-vegetarians to THINK. At the outset, it actually does not matter from God's point of view as to who is getting killed. All are his children and the creation is "immortal" from his point of view. That is why he does not object directly or puts the things to a grinding halt even if you kill any one of his creations including his most loved creation -- THE HOLY COW ! That is the God - watching, tolerating, the action of one child vis-a-vis his another child ! But he maintains the record, he has his own method of bringing the errant child to his senses ! He can afford to wait, he loves all equally. That is the point of view of one element of the trinity – God ! The second element is the one who got killed- cow, fish, pig, chicken, prawn, goat etc. Nobody can get killed as per Gita ! (Chapter 2). One who got killed in fact would never regret after getting killed because in fact it (say he ) has become purer ! In fact he has reaped what he sowed and is now debt free ! He in fact is the happiest among the three- though to the third party he may be appearing to be the helpless victim ! But that is between him and God only. The third character of trinity is meat eater. I will call him for brevity's sake murderer or butcher. Now come to the murderer ! What right he had to annihilate any creature from this world? Did he create them? Was he nourishing or feeding them ? What harm those creatures caused to him? What was the mistake made vis-a-vis him by the holy Cow or by Fish or by a chicken or by a lamb or by a pig ? Just for fun ? Just to satisfy the demands of tongue? Just to feed the Ego or show power ? To continue with what you have seen others as doing ? If you can kill why you should not kill ? Taste ! Everybody does it so I should also?.God has made them for killing only and has made me superior to them ! All these arguments , thoughts are advocated. None is valid! You had a licence of power, you misused that, you ignored the basics of humanity and hence you will be stripped of your powers ! Did you ever realise what kind of pain the fish or chicken or cow goes through ? No - so now realise that ? How ? Become that ! That is then becomes your fate! That is then becomes the dictum of mother nature for you ! That then becomes the punishment for you ! Of course, the benevolence of Paramatma is there in that also, because now you have become second character of trinity, can only move towards north. But would you like to first fall and then suffer and then rise upwards to become human again ?

Ø That is why you should not kill and should not be a non vegetarian ! It makes no difference to the God or World or the victim- IT MAKES DIFFERENCE TO YOU ! Look at the type of difference the killng others can make to you? You fall from the position of human being to the position of animal ! As a human being you could have gone to any heights - even become God ! But just to satisfy your tongue - you fell down to become an animal! SURELY- now the tongue will be the centre of attraction ! Tongue as good as that of frog, as good as that of snake ! As good as that of Cuckoo ! But what about you ! That is why you should not kill or motivate others to kill ! He who gave you power to kill can also take that power away from you and give the same power to that soul whom you killed or to that soul who has been appointed by Him to make you taste your own medicine ! BE SURE- when He does so, He does with 100 times more intensity than what you did ! He knows better than you the principles of Maths and the principles of interest calculation- simple, compound, and the rests of compounding the interest - daily rest or monthly rests or the yearly rests or the hourly rests ! Then where shall you be ? That is why you should not kill ! Many times we say this world has got only one law- the strong wins and the weak loses ! How many think as to how and why this law came into being ? Who is that weak ? Why is he weak? Why is some one strong? What are the duties of one who is strong ? Who made them weak or strong ? Why ? Can you not be made weak ??? One who made you strong and some one else as weak - is He not powerful enough to turn the tables? That is why you should not kill !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas, N B

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Hari OmNo egg. No alcoholic beverages or coffee. Sadly, we live in a world that bombards the vulnerable and impressionable with messages on the media - print and broadcast, and if parents are not careful and alert theyoung ones will adopt tamasic habits.

No cheese with rennet. Many soap bars have animal products as are seemingly vegetarian products, e.g. baked goods, cookies, ice-cream etc. Lard and gelatin are two common animal derivatives in many food items.

It is all up to us. No one can force you to eat or drink anything. Happiness and comfort should not be dependent on what you eat or drink but this is easier said and done unless one reaches a certain level of spirituality.

But, don't be discouraged if you falter. Persevere. Bhagavan is not there spying on all to see what they eat or drink. He is loving and forgiving, it is up to us to lead our lives as according to the scriptures.

Krishna S. Narinedath

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dear mr kaushal

There is no need for Bhagwan to say in Gita or elsewhere not to take non-veg. Man is by nature vegeratian. Non-veg animals will have such nails, teath, digestive system etc which can digest non-veg items. Man is having all the parts of his body suitable to digest vegetables. All non-veg animals drink water by their tongue. All veg animals drink water by mouth. Normally, a donkey is said to have far less brain/intelligentia. So we call those who does a foolish thing, a donkey, gathha. But we keep a donkey for ten days without giving any food or water and put in its front some flesh of an animal, give it some brandy, give it some tobacco. definitely it will not eat those items. If we keep a dog hungry and thirsty for few days give it some alcohol to drink. No it will not touch. Like the same with animals. You keep an elephant hungry for few days and give it some mutton or fish, it will not accept it. We claim that people are the intelligentia, people are the wise amongst all creatures, people are best out of God's creations., but it is, alas, in selecting the food, man has become worse than donkeys and dogs. Where is the intelligentia, where is the knowledge, where is the differentiating power, where is the VIVEK to distinguish what is good and what is bad for me, for my body, for my mind. When one is bodily little bit weak and if approaches a doctor, he will suggest to take egg, mutton etc . After few years when the same man is under some disease and if approaches the same doctor, he will tell you, all these complications happened because of your eating meat, egg etc. So stop it forthwith.

There are innumerable best things which are best suited for body. There is no need to tell somebody what is good for your body/mind. If donkeys and dogs are aware of it well and if man does'nt know, then such a lot is worse than that.

You are a vegetarian. Follow your principles. Live to hold it to its sanctity. Success will be yours.

best wishesvijayan-------Shree Hari-

Very little to say BUT, I agree with Ramesh Jhalla.Remember in other cultures and religions, there are vast dogmas of the do's anddon'ts w.r.t to food and drink.

The inner voice guiding one, is THAT which cuts through all dogmas.An evolution of thought that has guided me to where I am now.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

PS. Welcome home Sister.------------------------Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karmas". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" – greatly impure ! One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so we become !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians – that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread – are they not tasty? Blood and flesh – can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything is continued ? Don't worry, GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles,, lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, …..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Eating stool ? That also is edible, O Humans ! Many worms feed on that also. Wanna become those worms? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss the opportunity of being crawling insects. This is available in human life only. You are human. You are independent. Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of "spirituality" or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? No way !! But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. We are HUMANS !!

Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

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Dear Sadhaks, It was the year 1960. A young lieutenant in the Army posted at Jhansi went to his spiritual Guru, Sant Pritpal Singh. His mind was vexed. he had read so much about vegetarianism; the Bhagvada Geetha's appropriate shalokas arose in his mind, when he relished non-vegetarian food. Buddhas words, religious injunctions, the food habits in different cultures added to his turmoil of the mind, whenever questions on vegetarianism came up. He had decided to ask Pitajee, as the Sant Guru was popularly called by the many, who went to him for spiritual solace and guidance. Pitajee lovingly asked, " Speak about your mind, narinder. Do you feel like taking non-veg food, do you relish it ? Yes..... and there is a feeling of guilt , " replied young narinder . " Then eat... without any feeling of guilt. BUT................ to you, I would only say. Keep listening to Kirtan, read your scriptures regularly. Strive to move into true spiritual living guided by Satsang.Some day, the desire for non-veg food may vanish. Then, you shall truly know." And so life continued . One day, not many years later, sitting in a posh restaurant with friends, when narinder's favorite non -veg dish came on the table, the mind suddenly felt NO desire for meat. Narinder had become a vegetarian. And the spiritual movement continued.Jai Jai Krishna ................. Jai ! AUM Narinder Bhandari-------------------------

Gita is about the concept of God, the methods to realize God: Gita was notprobably intended to prescribe good or bad food. All beings select food to beeaten and not to be eaten through trial and error by observing the impact offood on health, longevity and stimulation of inherent chracteristics of body andmind. If one chooses a particular objective of good health, longer life andstimulation to spiritual activity, one may choose certain kinds of food that mayhelp contribute to the realisation of those objectives gven the person'sinherent body properties. What suit one may not suit another. Besides, manypersons or beings do not have really any choice over food given their incomesand the climate/ evironment they live in. Gita's purpose is to explain to humanbeings the blissful State of Godhood in men when they see everything as equal,lost their 'I'-ness ad ego and have become free from desire, attachment, angerand fear. A general prescription of foods involves attachment to body ad mind and therefore is not consistent with Gita's purpose.However, depending on the three Guna combination one has a person may beattracted by certain foods: the Yogi does not bother about choice of foods as heprogresses on his path to freedom.Basudeb Sen--------Dear All

Please note that We The Aryawarth gave Maths to the worldCOMPUTE THISThe World is already 90% Vegetarian in its consumptioneg. A Pot Roast / Meatloaf dinner is actually only 10% meat. The rest of the fayre is Beans, Corn, Potatoes, Cabbage, Salad, Ice Cream / Apple Pie.So Please forget The Veg uniqueness or contribution to world peace. In real terms we are Vegetarian in consumption another 10% shift is unlikely to change lives.Better that we Stop re-pressing the Aryawarth. Let Him be Free like Great Vayu.Here's a question that The Veg folks could answer. Q. Would the Vegetarian advocates create an Animal such as a defencless Doe incapable of retaliating then create a Large Fierce predator with Bone Crushing Jaws, Claws that could cut a man in two and speed that would outrun most animals. Then have such a predator pursue the poor doe and crush it for food??? Q. Would he who is ALL Capable watch a Great Guru who has acquired knowledge of Science & Maths, of Theology etc die from pain of Cardiac Arrest / Cancer etc??The Points are very simple. All that we see here is Maya (an illusion) it is a passing event. This life that we cling to is a physical form. It is dust and will return to dust. The Atmaa cannot be eaten. Preserve this. The focus on physicality belies a juvenile understanding of God's Creation.

Veda Shakti!

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PRIOR POSTING

I do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animalsFrom an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."We would not eat our pets. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Sophia-------------------Ram Ram,God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.Ashok Goenka-------------------------dear kaushal ji, natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous.let us see naturally in what category we fall. HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUSBlunt nails | sharpened pointed nailsSucking action - liguids | Licking action - LiquidsFlat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teethTemperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey.. After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you. ckkaul.-------------------------------Hari Om

Bhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.

But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.

Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.

Krishna S. Narinedath.----- Namastey all vegetarians and vegans, If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating. Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator.. Then the change in habit will be permanent. Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence. Ramesh Jhalla.---------------- Sir, QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian? podury------------------ the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence. Podury---------------------

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PRIOR POSTING

In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

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Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals.

....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

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Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below:

Thank you for bringing this topic up again and helping share this knowledge withall new sadhaks. From Gita Talk Moderators,Ram Ram

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Dear friends,Jai Shri Ramji,Vegetarianism is "non-voilence" or ahimsa, it is "satvik".Well, many persons say that plants also have life, so why not killanimals & eat them.When we eat fruits , vegetables etc, then we are hurting a livingorganism to very little extent as plants have only two sense organs,so they feel lesser pain than animals.For instance, when your hairs or nails are cut then u do not have anypain , so is the case of eating fruits & vegetables.However, when u kill an animal, then you can yourself see the animalin pain, crying & shouting in distress and helplessness.In fact I have seen that many non-vegetarians do not ever watch theslaughtering of animals, because if they were to see this act, theywould not be able to eat it anymore.

Many intelligent non-veg people says that if this is the explanation,then will u consider it correct to kill a blind or deaf person as healso have less sense organs???The answer to this is that a blind or a deaf & dumb person thoughphysically can't see or hear respectively, but as they are humanbeings- their level of growth and senses allow them to psychologicallysee or hear.The physical sense organs are of importance but the psychic organs aremore imp. Therefore, when u kill an animal it cries & shouts while aplant does not.Again, since the plants have life , we should cut or pluck as minimumas possible (i.e. to fulfill only our genuine needs).This will also be helpful for our earth's ecology & also ourspirituality- as it is said that "jaisa khaogey ann vaisa hoga mann"-means your mind will be in accordance to the food you eat.

Dr. Amit Prakash Jain---

Kabeer Das saysHindi:Bakari paati khat hai, taakii khineenche khaal;jo jan bakari khaat haintaaki kaun havaalEnglish:Goat that eats leaves is stripped of her skin, what should happen tothose eating goat?

As per Bhagwat Gita, 'sva bhaav' (independent nature) is altered by interaction,learning, work and consumption. The 'bhaav' is dependent nature and thus, poseslimitation to sva bhaav. If interaction is by prem (love), the product carriessat gun and svabhaav is united (bhakti) and improved. If it is by materialnature, product is with raj guna and it does not improve the svabhaav butprovides satisfaction temporarily. And if the relationship is of enemy, theproduct will never be able to satisfy, and consumers will only increasebusiness. Sat guna satisfies more with less consumption, Raj guna satisfies lesswith more consumption; and Tam guna does not satisfy at all, and consumptionrises exponentially.

regardsK G Misra---Hari Om,Plants do have soul (Jeeva). Human superficial senses cannot realisethe killing of plants. ONLY after science developed or knowing fromhindu scripts, we come to know that there is jeeva in plants. As longas one can see physically through eyes that there is suffering in akilling, then it has to be avoided. To the extent GOD has given brainand heart to feel and recognize the endured suffering. A lion killinga deer, no one can file a criminal case, as it has only 5 senses. Manhas 6th sense to understand things around him and can feel that aanimal suffers when being slaughtered. A man can know that he is being attackedor killed. Killing a human is known in our sastras as "Brahma Hati". One raisesabove normal man, when he thinks killing animals is sin.

In Srimath Bagavath, Bharatha yogiswar (who was born as a deer due toattachment in previous birth) used to eat only dry grass or leaveswhere there were no ants or insects to avoid harming insects andplants. Human birth is Dullabom (Rare and Precious) therefore onemust use there discrimination at all times in everything thingincluding food habits. How to live a divine life, is to be known fromscripts.B.Sathyanarayan

, "sadhak_insight"<sadhak_insight wrote:>> Shree Hari> Ram Ram>> Thank you for bringing this point in the forefront. A similar> question was asked in the past and great information was shared.>> Yes ! Vegeterianism is important and essential for those on the> spiritual path. Detailed answered are provided in the links below ->> Particularly read the following links ->> Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture> By Stephen Knapp (Shri Srinanandanji)> /message/627>> Vegeterianism supported even in Bible - by Stephen Knapp> /message/626>> Vegeterianism - Scientific Evidence> /message/632>> Please search gita talk group by entering "Vegeterianism" in the> search window for additional discussions.>> Ram Ram

April 14, 2009

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Clearing PENDING QUEUE... Ram Ram

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Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian.

They would like to know why they should be vegetarian. Could anybody pleaseadvise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan ShriKrishna has mentioned about not to eat meat?

Moreover, I told them we cannot kill an animal and eat their meat. Theirresponse was that even Plants have "Jeev" in them but Vegetarian people stilleat Fruits and Vegetables?

Could you please help gain the knowledge on what is a difference here?

Thank youKaushal PatelRam Ram--------------

NEW POSTING

yes one should eat pure food to purify the mind and most important the place, seat, scene and atmosphere should be pure and holy. Feelings, thoughts of the person cooking and the food should be pure and divine.(Washing of hands, feet and mouth) sit on clean, pure seat, face to God being Gods only pray thanks to God for food given as offering of love and of pure heart I accept. take water in hand(this is offered by God, into Gods humble servant.We see You by Your Beauty.Drink water with full thankfulness. Say prayer then while eating.While having meal the mind must be pure, free from animosity and hate, jealousy, fear, greed and all negative thoughts, remaining calm with full thankfulness.catherine andersen

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Dear Kaushalji Patel,

Namaskar !

From your letter it is clear that even though you donot have the full information as to why one should eat only vegetarian diet & not meat diet, you are firm on your faith. In Bagwat Gita, in 17th Adhyay Bhagwan has clearly mentioned that one who takes Stwik diet is Satwik by Nature, & similar statements are made about Rajasik & Tamasik Diet. These points are Vice-Versa also. ie. One whose Nature is Satwik, Rajasik or Tamasik like to have the diet of same character. That is why human being is different from other animals, as he can decide to change his Nature by changing the pattern of Diet. If we observe world over the Cultures, Countries, Religions, Casts & Societies whose diet is a sort of Rajasik & Tamasik normaly face more Health Problems & also have maximum social unrest. Of course this includes many of the vegetarian variety of foods. Meat especially is Tamasik, it involves cruelty, because you have to kill an animal. Naturally dead animal due to disease is not eaten. In the 2nd & 9th Adhyay of Gita also there are some Shlokas on Diet & Health.

Animal Kingdom is divided in 3 groups (1) Vegetarian ( Herbivorous), (2) Non-Vegetarian (Carnivorous) & (3) Mix (Omnivorous). They are formed as per the design of their body, digestive tract & a no. of other factors which you will find in the curriculum of Zoology.Human Being is a perfect Vegetarian Animal. Even this group is divided in 2 groups (1) Herbivorous (one who eat literally herbs ie. leaves) (2) Frugivorous (one who eat Fruits). Human Being is Frugivorous.

I am a Naturopath, if interested from in more from time to time I can send you articles that I have written which may help you increase your interest & faith in this subject.

Pl. make it convenient to give the feedback.

Thanks . With Regards To All.- Dr. Ashok Jhamwar

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

swamiji has said that for ascetics it has been written in the scriptures to not travel much during "Chaturmaas" (four months in a year during the rains), as during these month, due to the rains, every seed grows into a sappling, which later grows into a tree. By extensive traveling, walking, these seedlings come under the feet and are destroyed. Therefore during this four month period, the ascetics do not walkand roam around much, so that unknowingly no violence is done to any life form. In Bhagavat it has "hinsaa kaayaadhyaneehayaa." (Bhagavat 7:15:23). When there is so much thought put into non-violence around immovable things, then what to speak on the subject of movable beings?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

The Inner Side of Vegetarianism "When we realize that any physical object has all the levels which we do, namely, the physical, biomagnetic, sensory, intellectual and will bodies, we can understand the importance of the kind and quality of food we eat. For not only does the physical substance of the food become assimilated into our physical body, so also do the subtler energies become united to our inner levels."How do you know ALL physical objects have an intellectual and a will body? How do you know a vegetable has an intellectual body for instance? The Sankhya Philosophy (and all the other darshana orthodox systems of Indian philosophy), which includes the oldest form of Physics, postulates that all material objects possess five levels or koshas (sheaths/bodies).The universe is considered to have five layers that correspond to the five Cosmic Elements (Mahabhutas or Panchabhutas). The Primal Element, of course, is Pure Consciousness Itself "God, Brahman, or Paramatman. On this ocean of Consciousness everything is based or floating. Akasha, the Etheric Element, floats upon Consciousness, Vayu, the Air Element, floats upon Akasha, Agni, the Fire Element, floats upon Vayu, Apa, the Water, Element, floats upon Agni, and Prithvi, the Earth Element, floats upon Apa. Nothing can exist in the material world that is not supported by the other five levels or elements. Thus all things possess five layers or bodies. These elements or bodies are really bands or bundles of energies.In most objects, the levels are purely potential, or at best dimly awakened. But in sentient beings, they are all active, though in varying degrees according to the level of evolution. The bodies correspond to atomic, biomagnetic, sensory-mind, intellectual, and will energies or levels (faculties). In the human being these five are alive "but the degree of life also depends on individual evolution.Vegetables possess all levels, mostly in the form of "raw" or unconditioned life energies (prana). Thus they absorb readily into our bodies and the subtle levels of our being, and become conditioned by our thoughts and the present vibratory character of our bodies.This is not true of animals. Rather, all their levels are conditioned and locked into the vibratory patterns proper to their species. Thus, when we eat them we graft the animal bodies into our human bodies and create conflict and havoc, darkening "and distorting"our minds to an incalculable extent. Eating meat is one of the worse things we can do to ourselves, and it renders the practice of yoga and the wakening of higher consciousness virtually impossible. Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath----Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sophiaji's issues have to be dealt with as they are genuine inquiries against the teaching of Gita in the context of Vedanta! I admire all her posts asking or sharing issues of importance!

Q:Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomenon and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt?

A: Certainly not! The world is not passing phenomenon unless it is realized as such. The world seems so real consisting of separate objects. One of such objects is body-mind I call "I/me". It is perceived just the same as all other objects are perceived only! But we take body-mind to be the real subject "I/me". It is like telescope taking itself as seer of a distant star! Obviously it is an object of the subject Scientist.Thus "I/me" is the object, in the ONLY Subject Awareness-God-Atman. The perceived world of course is Maya and illusory, not the world in itself which is one whole Existence, not separate perceived objects!If we stand as Awareness, even as body-mind(nature) hurts, we-Awareness are never hurt, and also we cannot hurt or abuse anyone. We know that those who hurt us don't have this realization, and we have to live amongst them. So Non-violence, Compassion, Love comes out of us towards all. One automatically takes actions based on wisdom that comes from this Understanding! You just cannot kill, hurt, abuse for the fun of it or get hurt or abused with this understanding; it is impossible to do that even to cats and dogs. In the worldof relativity, our actions emerge from the Absolute Truth we are! More on Karma perspective laterNamaskar ...........Pratap Bhatt-

Dear Sadhaks,

I see this topic of food has been thoroughly discussed by many saadhaks, with much fervor.Bhagavad-Gita (BG) are the words of Bhagwaan on eternal principles, applicable to all times, places and people. So it is more concerned about those principles with regard to food as well, without actually giving us a menu!

Below are some verses from BG related to food.

BG 3:13The wise eat food that remains after being offered to yagÃ±a,

and thus they are released from all evils;but the wicked prepare food for their own sake, and indeed they live on sin alone.Anything we consume, we should do so as prasaad(gift from God).Even if we eat a dry leaf that fell on its own accord,we must not do so with arrogance (â€˜I found it, it is Mine, and I will eat itâ€™).

[Just ask yourself what food was offered in a typical Vedic yagÃ±a]Because that kind of worship is uncommon now, on a daily basis,we can only offer mentally to God whatever we are eating. Thank him for his blessings and eat it. Then it becomes sanctified].

BG 5: 18A wise person sees the same "supreme"in a brahmin endowed with knowledge and humility, in a cow, in an elephant, in a dog .The wise look at the same inner spirit in all these beingsrather than their external differences.

Bg 17:7The food, which is dear to a person is of three kinds, just as with the ways of yagna, dana or tapah.Listen, as I explain the distinctions between them.Yagna is wo rship/sacrifice; dana is charity; tapah is austerity/penance.

BG 17:8Foods which promote longevity, vitality, endurance, health, happiness and contentment;foods that are tasty, mild, nourishing and pleasantare dear to those of the nature of sattva.BG 17:9Those of the nature of rajas prefer foods that are bitter, sour, salty, excessively spicy, pungent, dry and scorching. This causes pain, sorrow and sickness.Bg 17:10Foods that are not freshly made, insipid, stale, rotten, left-over, filthy and unhygienicare dear to those of the nature of tamas. Love

Koti Sreekrishna ---------------- ---------------My dear friend, I too would like to share my feelings regarding vegetarianism; We believe in Ahimsa, great people who made history are vegetarians. Bernard shaw wrote in his song of Peace that My stomach should not b3e a grave yard for dead animals.I do not hink the plants will have brains to feel. Because the feelings of fear joy will come only through brain. Even Our Vaswaniji a jain Munie once told on World Vegetarian Day, that the pain that may be caused to te vegetables is too minimal .There are group ofpeople who are called ;vegans" who will not take animal fats like milk curd etc.that may not be practable. Enough we are vegetarians either or by birth or choice. with best wishes, jayashree sarathy

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Why should one be a Vegetarian ? Does Gita say not to Eat Meat?

I read somewhere … "Some Sadhus in Himalayas got some not-so-delicious food. They turned the food into delicious Jalebees and ate". If it happened literally, I pity the poor Sadhus for mastering such miraculous Vidyas - the crave for Jalebees and aversion for tasteless food have gone stronger within! But, on theother hand, if they ate the tasteless food with the same reverence as they would eat the Jalebees with and vice versa ... THAT MAKES SENSE ...

One who do not know how to eat should be prescribed with what to eat to facilitate the learning of how to eat. For one who knows how to eat, what prescription would be needed? For one who does not know how to eat (that covers many of us), prescriptions are required and are made in The Gita.

But, the prescriptions are made to attain the vegetarian attitude within - to eat what is in the platter respectfully to support the natural sustenance of the system leaving no room for either craves or for aversions. Eating vegetables does not suffice that … but, it may help the system appreciate the fact morenaturally backed up by the awareness of the need for developing vegetarian outlook within ... flushing out the crave for the likes and the aversion for the dislikes ... As far as that is happening within, what we "eat", what we "do", what we "see" or "hear" or "taste" or "smell" or "touch", what we "think", what we "enjoy", etc. -

If that is not happening within naturally, the only other way is to borrow external help ... to cut down the supplies fueling our craves and aversions TO EXPERIENCE THE DIFFERENCE WITHIN ... ONLY TO ATTAIN FREEDOM WITHIN FROM THE CLUTCHES OF THE INHERENT CRAVES AND AVERSIONS ... Whatever helps toward that end IS vegetarianism in my opinion ...

Respects.Naga Narayana.

PRIOR POSTING

The hallmark of Sanatan dharma is non injury of ahimsa. In every action we need cause least injury. We will during living cause some injury inadvertently. When we eat from bottom of food pyramid rather from top we cause less injury as it takes less to produce those food items. This is the basis of vegetarian diet.

Anil Aggrawal

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Dear Kaushal ji, "I am a vegetarian and most of my friends are non-vegetarian." Good to know. Kindly don't get swayed by their argument-cum-justifications for being non-veg because even a murderer would give justification. Could anybody please advise me or tell me where in "Bhagvad Gitaji" we can find where Bhagvan Shri Krishna has mentioned about not to eat meat? I will confine myself here to only two lines from the Gita. Gita 16:2 - AHINSA (Harmlessness) is the first word of the first line. DAYA BHUTESHU (Compassion to living beings) are the first two words of the second line. There a lot of such quotes in the Holy Book. Gita 17:8 - AAYUH SATTVABALAROGYA SUKH-PREETI-VIVARDHANAH / RASYAH SNIGTHAH STHIRA HRIDYA AAHARAH SATTVIKPRIYAH.. The foods which increase life, purity, strength, health, joy and cheerfulness which are savoury and oleaginous, substantial and agreeable, are dear to the Pure. Better to be a vegetarian and the best is that we have to be selective in the vegan diet also. For example, let us not chop the plant or branch where birds are nesting. Let us not pluck the flowers because flowers are giving nectar to many insects and birds. The best yardstick is to use vegan (in fact all natural resources) to fulfill our needs, but not desires. As you are aware that the human beings' consumption of natural resources today has already crossed the earth's sustainable limits, thanks to the western culture.If you seem to be feeling "defeated" in the argument-war between you and your meat-eating friends. Just tell them the story of the frog who accidentally fell into the well to be killed by the myopic well-confined frogs. So better, please don't get into arguments with them, because the danger is that instead of them joining your side, you may join theirs. This is what is happening in the cities today. Plants also have feelings, but not in the same way as the animals do. But there is no end to these arguments, this will remain a never-ending fight between the two. I being an humble nature student regularly observe the disturbing facts how our farmers are resorting to dangerous chemicals to kill insects, then birds and then other creatures. Besides the pleas put forth by the vociferous learned sadhaks on this forum, the one mentioned by compassionate Mike can also be your/our guidance. Equally appealing is Sophia's simple and heart-touching truth. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Look, simplicity is beautiful, but we the so-called human-beings are getting complicated. Nobel prize-winner for English literature T.S. Eliot was right when he wrote, Most of the problems are caused by those people who want to become important This applies to us also, if we want to become important by impressing others with our so-called "knowledge". To sum it up, I call a movie "Noting Hill" in which the Hollywood actress of fame Julia Roberts says, I do not eat meat because the slaughtered animals too had emotions just like us. Therefore, Sophia's hugging a pig does not depend on others doing the same thing. ADAVESHTA SARVABHUTANAM MAITRAH KARUNAH EV CHA (Gita 12:13) (He/she who hates no creature, who is friendly and compassionate to all is dear to Me). Live and let live. Isn't this what the Julia Roberts of our divine forum Shashikala Jee Jee says! Regards, Suresh C Sharma

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My dear friend, I too would like to share my feelings regarding vegetarianism; We believe in Ahimsa, great people who made history are vegetarians. Bernard shaw wrote in his song of Peace that My stomach should not b3e a grave yard for dead animals.I do not hink the plants will have brains to feel. Because the feelings of fear joy will come only through brain. Even Our Vaswaniji a jain Munie once told on World Vegetarian Day, that the pain that may be caused to te vegetables is too minimal .There are group ofpeople who are called ;vegans" who will not take animal fats like milk curd etc.that may not be practable. Enough we are vegetarians either or by birth or choice. with best wishes, jayashree sarathy

PRIOR POSTING

-----------Dear Sadaks,Bagavan has said in Bakthi Marg and in Baktha Vijayam that to see HIM in a dog, donkey, leprosy person, earth worm etc Only to purify our thoughts. One sadak has said this will give compassion and wisdom. If one expects to have compasion and wisdom, he should practice them in loving animals.All sadaks can read a script MANASHA PANCHAKAM that tells about this same subject. There is answers for all your queries. This is the dialogue between Adi Sankara and Bagavan Shiva.Human brain and knowledge gained by it. If one can feel or see the suffering of animals being killed, he is normal human. But he who does not, then he is preparing himself to be born over several births as animals to be slaughtered. If the same human can understand by knowledge scientifically that plants and leaves have life, then he is upper class of human(Wiseman). But by creation of GOD, one cannot physically see or feel the plants, vegatables, Etc beeing cut is acceptable as food for survival. But if one can see physically pain in animal, then he should not opt for Non Vegetarian.There were Yogies like Jada Bharath in Srimath Bagavath, who ate only fallen fruits/vegatables/leaves on ground. He was so consciess not to trample over an ant. In his previous birth as a deer, he ate only dry grass/leaves/fallen fruits. This deer had Sumrthies (Ability to remember earlier birth) since it was as Bharatha Yogiswar abundant yogic power.One of the 63 Shiva saints sang, that he saw Shiva in leave, flower, tree, fruit etc and he said, ""Oh Bagavan YOU are filled in everything, and I have nothing to offer"". But again there were Bakthas who gave flowers and garlands to Bagavan. Here what you give or do pooja with 1000 leaves is not matter. It is Bagavan`s words, "Pushpam, Patram, Palam, Thoyam---------:", that one gives with tears in his eyes and his heart filled with devotion, his thoughts all concentrated on Bagavan. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------MOKSHA Need clarification about Ahimsa, Maya's activity, one's Karma and related Destiny when there there is no Death or Suffering of the Soul.... I am unclear as to the strange dichotomy of understanding that yes all is maya, passing , a dream transitory phenomena, be non attached do not grasp desire mourn crave etc. at the same time we must adhere to ethics no? QUESTION: Do we murder and abuse because it is all a passing phenomeneom and in the ultimate reality no one actually gets hurt? but this is the experiential physical plane of so called mayic activity where we do have experience and have what animals do not have the grace of choice and discrimination and the grace of bhakti. the grace of ahimsa. there is an extreme perception i think that needs to be adjusted. its like the stories of widowed elderly women being left at bus stations abandoned by their families and saying its ok its their karma. if we do not generate compassion live in compassion be compassion and just say well its karma or its all a passing dream if we do not choose to non-harm we are deluded in sorry. perhaps Gita needs to be explained better. while ultimately it is true there is no death or suffering i would not take my cat rip its skin off and boil it alive and tell it or myself it is not suffering or any other sentient being that is suffering. that it is not real. Sophia---------------

Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. KC Giriji covered all aspects. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karma". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" greatly impure !

One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so becomes our mind! As is our mind so are we !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians' that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread " are they not tasty? Blood and flesh can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything and everything is continued ?

GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, â€¦..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss any opportunity of being animals and crawling insects. This opportunity is available ONLY in human life - . You are human. You are independent. You can choose to become whatever you want in next birth. Your mind chooses that. That mind by eating animals and loving their flesh can choose what ? Wake up, Jee !

Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of â€œspiritualityâ€ or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? Very very unlikely.But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. He is very honest in granting us independence. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Pls don't qualify yourself for such births. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. Very Very easy to get. If we like flesh we shall be given teeth, stomach, appetite also benevolently and accordingly by Mom Nature ! But We are at present HUMANS !! Can we not think higher? If not now, when?Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee JeeShashikala----- Namaste Reasons for becoming Vegeterian First of all Human being do not have the necessary system for the Non veg food. Digestive system of animals is very short,further teeth are also pointed. Whereas Human being is having long digestive system. The non veg. food gets deteriorated inside the human digestive system thus creating harm to the system. Non veg food contains more of phosphorus & other elements harmful for bones.Further to make non veg food more tasty the elements used are also causing harm to the body. The WBC of blood treats non veg food as Antibody & tries to expel it out. Hence is the smell coming out after eating non veg food. I think this explanation is enough. Regards Bhavin Shah---- Sir,

Vedas preach Vegetarianism only. Geetha which is loyal to Veda cannot think otherwise. Let it be understood that Vedas are supreme over any scriptures which includes Geetha also. The matter whether Meat eating good or not has been examined and appropriate reply furnished in various the Vedic portals where you can tackle meat eaters with intelligent arguments. you can search on "meat eating proper or improper" Thanking you, Vasudevarao.--------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Vasudevaji, we do not allow links to this forum, kindly include any important information in your response. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ------1) Human Body is not meant to digest meat.2) You may not find in Geeta. But does tell us that Lord Kirshna has lots of Love for Cows and Animals. You are not supposed to entertain or please yourself by torturing the innocent animals.3) Please search on various sites on "Vegetarian" and importance of being vegetarian. Also, Sciecne has proven the people who are vegetarian are less at risk to all kind of desease than those who are non vegetarian. If you want live a healy life, "BE VEG-STAY HEALTHY" JAI SRI RAM! Ajit Patel------

If one is on the spiritual path then you don't have to leave bad habits. Bad habits leave you. Drinking, drugs and eating meat are the bad habits that are obstacles on our spiritual journey. But then one man's meat is another's poison. So it is not Gita but your own conscience that will stop you from eating meat, when the time comes

Hari Shanker Deo

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Hari Shanker Deoji, Swamiji says that if a sadhak knows something to be bad (wrong, evil action), the responsibility lies within him to not do it. We are independent in the performance of our actions. The only reason we continue doing evil is desire for enjoyment of pleasures (bhog) and accumulation of material things / wealth (sangraha). These are up to us to give up as we have the freedom of choice. If we is unable to do so, we can seek God's help by calling out to Him. From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Pranam Group,

I am a vegetarian, and believe in a philosophy that one does not have the right to take away something which I cant give --- LIFE. We don't have a right to kill animals to satisfy our taste buds. Regards, Balveer.

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Hari Om

There has indeed been a good participation on this subject. I liked immensely the messages of all sadhaks on the subject. Ashokji, Rameshji Jhalla , C K Kaul and Sophiaji, to name a few. Welcome Sophiaji. Hope you are now rejuvenated. But the message of Sadhak Krishna S Narinedath is different . He beautifully narrated a universal fact- God is dis-interested witness. He gave us Gita, Scriptures, Conscience and human birth. Now it is for us to think. Certainly God is not going to put the things to a grinding halt. I have some thoughts on the subject. I am not on advantages or disadvantages of meat eating. I am on Law of Karma and Paramatma governing the same. Slightly long posting, I hope Sadhaks will bear with me. I want all non-vegetarians to THINK. At the outset, it actually does not matter from God's point of view as to who is getting killed. All are his children and the creation is "immortal" from his point of view. That is why he does not object directly or puts the things to a grinding halt even if you kill any one of his creations including his most loved creation -- THE HOLY COW ! That is the God - watching, tolerating, the action of one child vis-a-vis his another child ! But he maintains the record, he has his own method of bringing the errant child to his senses ! He can afford to wait, he loves all equally. That is the point of view of one element of the trinity – God ! The second element is the one who got killed- cow, fish, pig, chicken, prawn, goat etc. Nobody can get killed as per Gita ! (Chapter 2). One who got killed in fact would never regret after getting killed because in fact it (say he ) has become purer ! In fact he has reaped what he sowed and is now debt free ! He in fact is the happiest among the three- though to the third party he may be appearing to be the helpless victim ! But that is between him and God only. The third character of trinity is meat eater. I will call him for brevity's sake murderer or butcher. Now come to the murderer ! What right he had to annihilate any creature from this world? Did he create them? Was he nourishing or feeding them ? What harm those creatures caused to him? What was the mistake made vis-a-vis him by the holy Cow or by Fish or by a chicken or by a lamb or by a pig ? Just for fun ? Just to satisfy the demands of tongue? Just to feed the Ego or show power ? To continue with what you have seen others as doing ? If you can kill why you should not kill ? Taste ! Everybody does it so I should also?.God has made them for killing only and has made me superior to them ! All these arguments , thoughts are advocated. None is valid! You had a licence of power, you misused that, you ignored the basics of humanity and hence you will be stripped of your powers ! Did you ever realise what kind of pain the fish or chicken or cow goes through ? No - so now realise that ? How ? Become that ! That is then becomes your fate! That is then becomes the dictum of mother nature for you ! That then becomes the punishment for you ! Of course, the benevolence of Paramatma is there in that also, because now you have become second character of trinity, can only move towards north. But would you like to first fall and then suffer and then rise upwards to become human again ?

Ø That is why you should not kill and should not be a non vegetarian ! It makes no difference to the God or World or the victim- IT MAKES DIFFERENCE TO YOU ! Look at the type of difference the killng others can make to you? You fall from the position of human being to the position of animal ! As a human being you could have gone to any heights - even become God ! But just to satisfy your tongue - you fell down to become an animal! SURELY- now the tongue will be the centre of attraction ! Tongue as good as that of frog, as good as that of snake ! As good as that of Cuckoo ! But what about you ! That is why you should not kill or motivate others to kill ! He who gave you power to kill can also take that power away from you and give the same power to that soul whom you killed or to that soul who has been appointed by Him to make you taste your own medicine ! BE SURE- when He does so, He does with 100 times more intensity than what you did ! He knows better than you the principles of Maths and the principles of interest calculation- simple, compound, and the rests of compounding the interest - daily rest or monthly rests or the yearly rests or the hourly rests ! Then where shall you be ? That is why you should not kill ! Many times we say this world has got only one law- the strong wins and the weak loses ! How many think as to how and why this law came into being ? Who is that weak ? Why is he weak? Why is some one strong? What are the duties of one who is strong ? Who made them weak or strong ? Why ? Can you not be made weak ??? One who made you strong and some one else as weak - is He not powerful enough to turn the tables? That is why you should not kill !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas, N B

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Hari OmNo egg. No alcoholic beverages or coffee. Sadly, we live in a world that bombards the vulnerable and impressionable with messages on the media - print and broadcast, and if parents are not careful and alert theyoung ones will adopt tamasic habits.

No cheese with rennet. Many soap bars have animal products as are seemingly vegetarian products, e.g. baked goods, cookies, ice-cream etc. Lard and gelatin are two common animal derivatives in many food items.

It is all up to us. No one can force you to eat or drink anything. Happiness and comfort should not be dependent on what you eat or drink but this is easier said and done unless one reaches a certain level of spirituality.

But, don't be discouraged if you falter. Persevere. Bhagavan is not there spying on all to see what they eat or drink. He is loving and forgiving, it is up to us to lead our lives as according to the scriptures.

Krishna S. Narinedath

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dear mr kaushal

There is no need for Bhagwan to say in Gita or elsewhere not to take non-veg. Man is by nature vegeratian. Non-veg animals will have such nails, teath, digestive system etc which can digest non-veg items. Man is having all the parts of his body suitable to digest vegetables. All non-veg animals drink water by their tongue. All veg animals drink water by mouth. Normally, a donkey is said to have far less brain/intelligentia. So we call those who does a foolish thing, a donkey, gathha. But we keep a donkey for ten days without giving any food or water and put in its front some flesh of an animal, give it some brandy, give it some tobacco. definitely it will not eat those items. If we keep a dog hungry and thirsty for few days give it some alcohol to drink. No it will not touch. Like the same with animals. You keep an elephant hungry for few days and give it some mutton or fish, it will not accept it. We claim that people are the intelligentia, people are the wise amongst all creatures, people are best out of God's creations., but it is, alas, in selecting the food, man has become worse than donkeys and dogs. Where is the intelligentia, where is the knowledge, where is the differentiating power, where is the VIVEK to distinguish what is good and what is bad for me, for my body, for my mind. When one is bodily little bit weak and if approaches a doctor, he will suggest to take egg, mutton etc . After few years when the same man is under some disease and if approaches the same doctor, he will tell you, all these complications happened because of your eating meat, egg etc. So stop it forthwith.

There are innumerable best things which are best suited for body. There is no need to tell somebody what is good for your body/mind. If donkeys and dogs are aware of it well and if man does'nt know, then such a lot is worse than that.

You are a vegetarian. Follow your principles. Live to hold it to its sanctity. Success will be yours.

best wishesvijayan-------Shree Hari-

Very little to say BUT, I agree with Ramesh Jhalla.Remember in other cultures and religions, there are vast dogmas of the do's anddon'ts w.r.t to food and drink.

The inner voice guiding one, is THAT which cuts through all dogmas.An evolution of thought that has guided me to where I am now.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

PS. Welcome home Sister.------------------------Jai Hanuman

Beautiful messages from our brethren. Yes, Sophiaji- one should never accumulate "negative karmas". In fact while explaining the types of eaters in Gitaji Chapter 17, the Daddy the Great even did not consider mentioning specifically about such an impure thing and included the same under "tamasic" by calling it "uchhisthamapi chamedhyam" – greatly impure ! One never thinks as to why we are humans and why other creatures are not. One never thinks how our body is sustained. It is sustained on what we eat ! As we eat so we become !! Be sure, O Non Vegetarians – that day is not far when you shall be on the other side of the table. Eat fruits, eat whole grains, eat bread – are they not tasty? Blood and flesh – can it ever be food of humans ? What then the animals shall eat? We shall eat their food also, is it? Very very powerful we have become, Jee ! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! What to talk ? Swamiji said once, where is the need now for agriculture ? Humans are eating animals. Why rains should come on the planet? Ever thought as to how the world will appear say after few centuries, if this trend of eating anything is continued ? Don't worry, GOD HAS MADE EVERY THING EDIBLE. What is not edible? Worms eat wood also. So eat that also. Frogs, snakes, baby monkeys, insects, prawn pickles,, lizards, cockroaches, mosquitoes, pests, …..nothing, nothing is spared by humans now a days. Types of delicacies are increasing. What has remained behind ? Eating stool ? That also is edible, O Humans ! Many worms feed on that also. Wanna become those worms? Go ahead, Jee ! Don't miss the opportunity of being crawling insects. This is available in human life only. You are human. You are independent. Absolutely berserk has gone the so called Human being. What kind of "spirituality" or purity can come in those who start the day with eating eggs and chickens ? From where the eggs come out ? They are made of what ? Ever thought ? What else can flesh eaters become in next birth? Can they become humans again ? No way !! But Daddy is benevolent. He tolerates, for He knows not to interfere in the independence of humans. He made them independent for one birth, human birth. It is up to a human to ensure that he frees himself. Very very rare is this birth O humans. This opportunity of eating flesh will be given in abundance to you, if you so want, in the births to come. But being humans, you should control yourself. Don't be so hasty. Animal and insect births are easier to get by. We are HUMANS !!

Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

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Dear Sadhaks, It was the year 1960. A young lieutenant in the Army posted at Jhansi went to his spiritual Guru, Sant Pritpal Singh. His mind was vexed. he had read so much about vegetarianism; the Bhagvada Geetha's appropriate shalokas arose in his mind, when he relished non-vegetarian food. Buddhas words, religious injunctions, the food habits in different cultures added to his turmoil of the mind, whenever questions on vegetarianism came up. He had decided to ask Pitajee, as the Sant Guru was popularly called by the many, who went to him for spiritual solace and guidance. Pitajee lovingly asked, " Speak about your mind, narinder. Do you feel like taking non-veg food, do you relish it ? Yes..... and there is a feeling of guilt , " replied young narinder . " Then eat... without any feeling of guilt. BUT................ to you, I would only say. Keep listening to Kirtan, read your scriptures regularly. Strive to move into true spiritual living guided by Satsang.Some day, the desire for non-veg food may vanish. Then, you shall truly know." And so life continued . One day, not many years later, sitting in a posh restaurant with friends, when narinder's favorite non -veg dish came on the table, the mind suddenly felt NO desire for meat. Narinder had become a vegetarian. And the spiritual movement continued.Jai Jai Krishna ................. Jai ! AUM Narinder Bhandari-------------------------

Gita is about the concept of God, the methods to realize God: Gita was notprobably intended to prescribe good or bad food. All beings select food to beeaten and not to be eaten through trial and error by observing the impact offood on health, longevity and stimulation of inherent chracteristics of body andmind. If one chooses a particular objective of good health, longer life andstimulation to spiritual activity, one may choose certain kinds of food that mayhelp contribute to the realisation of those objectives gven the person'sinherent body properties. What suit one may not suit another. Besides, manypersons or beings do not have really any choice over food given their incomesand the climate/ evironment they live in. Gita's purpose is to explain to humanbeings the blissful State of Godhood in men when they see everything as equal,lost their 'I'-ness ad ego and have become free from desire, attachment, angerand fear. A general prescription of foods involves attachment to body ad mind and therefore is not consistent with Gita's purpose.However, depending on the three Guna combination one has a person may beattracted by certain foods: the Yogi does not bother about choice of foods as heprogresses on his path to freedom.Basudeb Sen--------Dear All

Please note that We The Aryawarth gave Maths to the worldCOMPUTE THISThe World is already 90% Vegetarian in its consumptioneg. A Pot Roast / Meatloaf dinner is actually only 10% meat. The rest of the fayre is Beans, Corn, Potatoes, Cabbage, Salad, Ice Cream / Apple Pie.So Please forget The Veg uniqueness or contribution to world peace. In real terms we are Vegetarian in consumption another 10% shift is unlikely to change lives.Better that we Stop re-pressing the Aryawarth. Let Him be Free like Great Vayu.Here's a question that The Veg folks could answer. Q. Would the Vegetarian advocates create an Animal such as a defencless Doe incapable of retaliating then create a Large Fierce predator with Bone Crushing Jaws, Claws that could cut a man in two and speed that would outrun most animals. Then have such a predator pursue the poor doe and crush it for food??? Q. Would he who is ALL Capable watch a Great Guru who has acquired knowledge of Science & Maths, of Theology etc die from pain of Cardiac Arrest / Cancer etc??The Points are very simple. All that we see here is Maya (an illusion) it is a passing event. This life that we cling to is a physical form. It is dust and will return to dust. The Atmaa cannot be eaten. Preserve this. The focus on physicality belies a juvenile understanding of God's Creation.

Veda Shakti!

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I do not wear leather carry leather or make my stomach a graveyard for animalsFrom an early age i could not bear the thought of causing another sentient being pain or suffering .One of the greatest achievements of India is the concept of "ahimsa". To expect to live in peace with ourselves and the rest of humanity would mean not to cause suffering to even a poor animal. we cannot have selective compassion We either adhere to committing ourselves to true spiritual understanding of not causing pain in thought, word, or deed to any being that has been born of a mother or we fall very short and continue a downward spiral of "negative karma."We would not eat our pets. I have broken down in tears hugging a pig at my friends farm and looking into its eyes, so human. Sophia-------------------Ram Ram,God has made us vegetarian. A simple proof is that, you study the teeth of animals. Those animals who eat meat have pointed teeth where as those who don't have flat rectangular teeth.Now go and see your teeth. Sun rises in the east, its not necessary that it should be mentioned in Gita. Gita has more important things.Ashok Goenka-------------------------dear kaushal ji, natural division of the living beings is either herbivorous or carnivorous.let us see naturally in what category we fall. HERBIVOROUS | CARNIVOROUSBlunt nails | sharpened pointed nailsSucking action - liguids | Licking action - LiquidsFlat, Smooth teeth | Sharp, Irregular teethTemperament - Docile/sober | cruel, sharp, cunning for trapping prey Looking at vegetarian species we see that all such beings are having blunt nail, while as the nonveg, beings are having sharpand pointed nails which they use to kill and tear the flesh. All the vegetairion beings suck the liquids while the other lick the liquids. All the veg, spicies are having a smooth set of teeth while the others are having irregular set of teeth to cut and tear the meat.Temperamentally the veg, class is docile and sober in behaviour while the others are cruel sharp and cunning to trap their prey.. After viewing these elements you can ask your friends to choose the class they belong to, thank you. ckkaul.-------------------------------Hari Om

Bhagavan does not force anyone to be a vegetarian or teetotaler. If Bhagavan wants that then He can merely think about it for a fleeting millisecond and everyone will be never ever eat meat and meat products and consume alcoholic beverages.

But as Shri Shrikant has been explaining and educating us, Gita Chapter 2 informs us about action, lack of action, and the consequences. If after reading and studying what Gita says about food and drink, and if you do not want to heed Gita and continue to consume tamasic substances then you will experience the advantages or disadvantages. Simply pass on the relevant verses in Gita to those who want to know more about vegeterianism.

Bhagavan never forces anything on anyone. He gave us Gita. We have the free will to act or not to act, to believe or not to believe, and to adopt or not to adopt a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of Gita.

Krishna S. Narinedath.----- Namastey all vegetarians and vegans, If one has to look at Gita to chhse diet, better carry on with meat eating. Inspiration to eat healthy diet must come from WITHIN ones body and mind and deepest psyche. Voice of psyche is voice of God..the creator.. Then the change in habit will be permanent. Any decision taken after reading any book will be temporary till its influence. Ramesh Jhalla.---------------- Sir, QUESTION: What about egg. Is it to be avoided for the same reasons as in the case of non-vegetarian? podury------------------ the discussion reminds me of Ramana's remarks to Echhammal when she announced that she completed a pooja with one lakh leaves. Ramana reacted saying that she should have pinched herself one lakh times instead of plucking one lakh leaves. He used to chide workers if they cut any green branches in the process of clearing trees.Even plucking flowers iis considered violence. Podury---------------------

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In bhagavadgita, chapter 9, lord krishna clearly said ( patram pushpam phalamtoyam yome bhaktya prayacchati gita 9 ,26). If one offers with devotion a leaf flower fruit or water he accepts that. . . These are lord's favourites. No mention of meat here. This is another powerful reason tobe a vegetarian in addition to the reasons mentioned by the other devotees here. .

Hare krishna.

Dr iragavarapu

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Dear, Gita says "Foods that increase life and health that are sattvic are to be taken...." please read regards kalrav pande----------------------

Every lifeform on this Planet Earth needs food for its survival. That is divineprogramme set by the genetic code. Killing an innocent lifeform is againstethics. True, that plants have Jeeva...but that is the food for survival ofvegetarians. If non-vegetarian food is necessary for somebody`s survival...it isok..but that is not the case...animals are killed for tasty meals.

....Gee Waman--------------------

Here are some points from Dr. Frank Morale's write-up on

Why Should I Become a Vegetarian?

The reasons for becoming a vegetarian are many. Vegetarianism makes sense from every possible perspective.

Ethical - To kill or give pain to any living creature, especially when such actions are unnecessary and not in self-defense, is morally unjustified. Like you and I, animals are sentient living beings, and have been proven to be capable of feeling pain and suffering. Animals, like humans, cry out if cut; they scream if killed; they mourn if separated from those they love. God created animals, not for us to torture and gobble up thoughtlessly, but to cooperate with, learn from and protect. If we are, indeed, vastly superior to animals in both our ethical development and in our sense of justice, should we not perhaps behave as such?

Spiritual - All of the world's varied religious traditions are opposed to creating unnecessary suffering. The two most important qualities that every spiritual path attempts to instill in its adherents are wisdom and compassion. These qualities are impossible to develop as long as we engage in violence of any sort. However insignificant or distant an act of violence may appear to us (such as the killing and eating of animals), it nonetheless contributes to an overall social attitude of justifying violence. Violent minds lead to violent lifestyles. In such a state of consciousness, it is impossible to make any serious advancement on one's chosen spiritual path.

Health - Vegetarians have been shown to live longer, as well as suffer much less from such health problems as cancer, heart-disease and other illnesses. Contrary to popular belief, meat foods are not a necessary component of the human diet. In fact, evolutionarily and biologically, humans are not designed to be carnivores. Our teeth and intestinal structures are best suited for an herbivorous (vegetarian) diet.

Economic - A cow has to be fed up to 16 pounds of grain in order to produce only one pound of beef. If this grain were to be fed directly to human beings, world starvation could be eliminated. In addition, the meat industry is one of the most heavily federally subsidized industries in America. Your tax dollars are being wasted supporting an industry that produces an inefficient and unhealthy product.

Environmental - Central and South American rain forests are being decimated at the alarming rate of 2.5 acres per second. Much of this destruction is occurring in order to provide grazing land for beef cattle. Every burger we eat represents a tree mowed down in a rain forest. Also, the meat industry has been repeatedly cited as one of the major industries responsible for massive pollution, including the dumping of noxious wastes into our nation's water supplies.

These, and many other considerations, make it quite clear that the vegetarian alternative is a lifestyle that is both reasonable and healthy for your body, mind and soul. We hope these facts have given you a little food for thought, and that you will consider becoming a vegetarian.

KCGiri

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Shree Hari

Ram ram

Those who have recently joined the group, I would highly recommend going back and reading the discussions on "Cows and why they are sacred?".

At this link excerpts have been shared from Swamiji's article and the ruthless killing and violence. The root cause of all of this is DESIRE AND GREED!

A video on Deonar Slaughter house was also shared. Any one who saw the video, would definitely want to become a vegetarian. Anyone with even a little compassion.

Minimizing violence is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for a sadhak. Already in one's daily life a sadhak is doing enough violence unknowingly.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariRam RamKaushalji, you have rasied a similar question before, attached are few of theresponses from the last question. We strongly recommend you read and forward toyour friends the article - Vegetarianism: Recommended in Vedic Scripture byStephen Knapp posted at the link below: