Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?

April 16, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?

Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.

Ram Ram

Jay Narayan

vinayak yajnik

----------------------

:Shree Hari:

Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, and

now it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,

rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, day

after day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now what

does this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And it

changes

and only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would it

change everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -

Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is moving

towards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has been

lived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much life

remains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, that

many years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death is

nearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. This

body is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.

Today it " IS " , and one day it will be " IS NOT " . But the desire remains to engage

in sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such a

grave

mistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for a

good cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.

This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does not

mean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister

- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a poverty

stricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you are

unable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then what

is the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomes

non-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings are

through honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it is

discretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. One

becomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,

then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or two

thousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle was

used up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him for

reducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but the

base (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. If

you are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, the

capital?

The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this money

stacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. But

on having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it for

useful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One must

come to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then it

must be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it for

your self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing to

increase the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best of

opportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that it

will be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized that

would be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Just

like work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events where

there is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too if

the sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,

let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just like

a businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because the

market price will be higher in the future, and some places have already

increased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me even

borrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In this

manner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise for

spending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend for

good causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be that

greed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.

Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make a

contribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get such

an opportunity. (to be continued)

From " Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu " in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net

For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address

etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

bracketed.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message:

Subscribe: -

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April 16, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik----------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

--

In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

-------------------------------

Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree

sarathy partha

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram RamIt is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 19, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

----------------------

NEW POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........ If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already be pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

--------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you !

Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " !

Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful.

Narain! Narain !!

Naarad N Maharishi

----------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.

But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.

Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.

If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

--

In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

-------------------------------

Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 20, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

----------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------

Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................

IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself .................

and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself '

which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not "

and that too.......... only , if you so do choose !

if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you....

you may keep asking question after question after question...

and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth ..............

and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you ....

much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual....................,

but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!!

and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............

beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt.........

but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself ..........

the Nothingness that you truly are !!

narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........

Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1.......

read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth.....................

that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............

and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know ..............

you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says !

Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate.................

with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee .................

and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !!

jai jai Krishna ................

AUM !!

narinder

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already be pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

--------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

--

In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

-------------------------------

Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 22, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

----------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadaks,Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------

It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself. Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo

-----------------------------

Pranaam.

Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so.

Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace.

Regards,

NandaTAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

-----------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!

Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise should not become a penalty for readers. He has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion.

Narain ! Narain !!

Naarad N Maharishi

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------

Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................ IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself ................. and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself ' which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not " and that too.......... only , if you so do choose ! if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you.... you may keep asking question after question after question... and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth .............. and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you .... much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual...................., but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!! and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............ beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt......... but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself .......... the Nothingness that you truly are !! narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........ Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1....... read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth..................... that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............ and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know .............. you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says ! Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate................. with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee ................. and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !! jai jai Krishna ................ AUM !! narinder

-----------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

---------------------------

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already be pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

--------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

--

In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

-------------------------------

Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 25, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

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NEW POSTING

-Shree Hari- Dera Vinayak YajnikThe great false god of riches and greed. 'mammon', has become the universaldeity of the world for so many.The world we live in has been crafted, over the millenniums, slavery, imperialexploitation, human exploitation, capital exploitation. Whereby the whole humanstructure of this world is built on money.The way the heartless exploiters control a dark empire, is by fear, the fear ofpoverty, of loosing ones status in society, also fear for ones life.The unbridled greed of these dark ones, is now in the process of destroying theplanet, and the fabric of society.What these dark ones don't want you to realize is summed up very neatly by MeeraDasji.Also to understand the fate of these dark ones as they are described in BhagavadGita:9. Holding this view, these ruined souls of small intellects and fierce deeds,come forth as enemies of the world for its destruction.10. Filled with insatiable desires, full of hypocrisy, pride and arrogance,holding evil ideas through delusion, they work with impure resolves.11. Giving themselves over to immeasurable cares ending only with death,regarding gratification of lust as their highest aim, and feeling sure that thatis all12. Bound by a hundred ties of hope, given over to lust and anger, they striveto obtain by unlawful means hoards of wealth for sensual enjoyment.......20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, notattaining me, they thus fall, Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!With Respect and Divine Love.Mike (Keenor)

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Here is an interesting analogy by Swamiji between Money and Paramatma realization-

Swamiji says - You cannot survive with money alone. If a person does not see the face of money for his entire life, he can still survive; but he cannot survive without food and water. The goal is therefore not money, but to have the things (food, water, clothes, shelter) for sustainance. We have given a lot of importance to money. It has become more important than even food. The brain has been destroyed by thinking that one cannot do without money. We do not realize what is truly more important. Money is just the means. The importance is of the objects (things - food, water etc) that are needed for sustainance.

The same rule does not apply for spiritual matters. In attaining Paramatma, the importance is of the end (goal), not the things. - Paramatma realization is not through things i.e. karan (body, mind, intellect etc) . We are separate from the "karan." God realisation is karan nirpeksh i.e. we are not dependent on the karan (instruments - body, mind, intellect) to attain Paramatma. We have to separate ourself from the instruments to realize Paramatma. Therefore let us give importance to Paramatma- to the end, the goal - not to the objects / instruments - body mind intellect.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Geeta Sadhakas, NamaskarIt is very true, that we save money for emergencies in the future, for medicaltreatment, for the education of the kids, for buying houses for the kids, formarriages of sons and daughters, for travels, for recreation etc...if money isnot saved, we do feel insecure...But the real problem is many many families do not have enough money to maintainthe family at its bare minimum...so the question of saving money for the futuredoes not arise....living had to mouth has become very common...in the presenteconomy,Many people are losing their jobs, kids, after completing their education do notfind jobs...That is why youths are standing in long ques for Siddhi VinayakDarshan..Earning more money is always not possible but avoiding unneccesary expenses isalways possible...restrict the family to only one kid, dont buy luxury and prideitems, avoid excess purchases...Some people are not happy even if they have large number of shoes, sarees,shirts and ornaments...So change your attitude from materialistc tospiritual...eat satwick food, avoid bad company, smoking, liquor and such vicesand spend as much time as possible..with your family.... and save atleast 10 %of your income for the future emergencies...If you are greedy...you are likely to be cheated...if somebody says.. you giveme this much money...I will double your money...dont believe in suchpeople...and most important of all...dont believe in Amulets, angaras,sacrifices and vratas....just simple prayers, meditation and yoga will help youin finding the right path and overcome the difficulties......Gee Waman

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Namaste.

My feeling is that there is nothing wrong in being successful and rich; The issues is that properly utilizing the money we have is often more difficult than even earning it. We must give - Dana or Charity - and Bhagavan tells us to whom you should give, and how to give:

To give is right, gift given with this idea, to one who does no service in return, in a fit place and to a worthy person, that gift is held to be Sâttvika.

And what is given with a view to receiving in return, or looking for the fruit, or again reluctantly, that gift is held to be Râjasika.

The gift that is given at the wrong place or time, to unworthy persons, without regard or with disdain, that is declared to be Tâmasika.

GEETA 17 verses 20 to 22

Steadiness in Yajna, austerity and gift is also called 'Sat': as also action in connection with these (or, action for the sake of the Lord) is called Sat.

Whatever is sacrificed, given or performed, and whatever austerity is practised without Shraddhâ, it is called Asat, O Pârtha; it is naught here or hereafter.

GEETA 17 verses 27, 28

This is how you get rid of the insecurity - Bhagavan says to give in a fit place and to a worthy person. Most people who have this million dollars in the bank or in the mattress (you really should not have it there!), think of the money all the time, 24/7 and develop delusion and conceit:

"This to-day has been gained by me; this desire I shall obtain; this is mine, and this wealth also shall be mine in future.

"That enemy has been slain by me, and others also shall I slay. I am the lord, I enjoy, I am successful, powerful and happy.

"I am rich and well-born. Who else is equal to me? I will sacrifice, I will give, I will rejoice." GEETA 17 Verses 13 to 15

Get rid of that insecurity and conceit - give some, give Dana, to those who deserve - to those who need it to teach Geeta, to educate people, and to help those in need.

Work hard ! Imbibe in the Geeta ! Engage in Satsangh and give and help for good causes else that wealth is worthless. Remember, all we do, all we offer, all we give, all our actions, and how we live our lives are done as an offering to Bhagavan.

Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me. GEETA 9 Verse 27

Another important aspect of wealth and education, is the inherent risk of False Ego, Ostentatious lifestyle, and Arrogance, even religious arrogance - they "disregard ordinance." Bhagavan alerts us to forsake those qualities and get rid of the "I-ness":

Thus deluded by ignorance, Bewildered by many a fancy, covered by the meshes of delusion, addicted to the gratification of lust, they fall down into a foul hell.

Self-conceited, haughty, filled with the pride and intoxication of wealth, they perform sacrifices in name, out of ostentation, disregarding ordinance;

Possessed of egoism, power, insolence, lust and wrath, these malignant people hate Me (the Self within) in their own bodies and those of others.

These malicious and cruel evildoers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.

Obtaining the Asurika wombs, and deluded birth after birth, not attaining to Me, they thus fall, O son of Kunti, into a still lower condition.

GEETA 16 verses 16 to 20

Forsaking egoism, power, pride, lust, wrath and property, freed from the notion of "mine," and tranquil, he is fit for becoming Brahman. GEETA 18:53

Money and riches cannot provide you with security if you are obsessed and conceited with it; nor is it a path, by itself, to becoming a Brahman. That money and wealth, if used properly for Dana, in the service of the needy and to educate and inform people about Geeta, will provide you with all the security you ever wanted, as well as a sure path to becoming Brahman. Bhagavan gives it to you; He gives you freedom to use it; ultimately, it is your choice whether you rise, or fall down into a "foul hell."

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself. Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo -----------------------------Pranaam. Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so. Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace. Regards,NandaTAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)----------------------------- Narain ! Narain !! Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise should not become a penalty for readers. He has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !! Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

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Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................ IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself ................. and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself ' which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not " and that too.......... only , if you so do choose ! if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you.... you may keep asking question after question after question... and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth .............. and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you .... much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual...................., but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!! and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............ beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt......... but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself .......... the Nothingness that you truly are !! narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........ Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1....... read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth..................... that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............ and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know .............. you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says ! Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate................. with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee ................. and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !! jai jai Krishna ................ AUM !! narinder

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PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already been pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

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Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

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PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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April 26, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

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NEW POSTING

Hari OmMoney is the most "raddi" (worst/most third grade) thing in this world. Even prostitutes, robbers, sinner mosts, under world men, devils and demons have money with them. If that is some yardstick of progress or achievement.Better than money are "things" , like food grains /cloths etc. If you don't have money but have things you can still live. Better than things are "animals". Horses, cows, dogs, goats, sheep ,fish etc the things are generated out of them. Better than animals are "people"- other human beings. You get money/things only from other people. Even your body has been received by you from other people only. Better than people are devotees of Paramatma . They serve humanity at large without any selfish motive. And then of course is the Paramatma Himself - the PARAM ASHRAY DAATA- the upper most limit of shelter. You need no other shelter once you have taken shelter of Him. The very desire for shelter extinguishes. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Swamiji says that it is so strange that day and night we are engaged in efforts to earn and accumulate those things for security (money, wealth, titles, knowledge, power, etc) that do not go with us... Whereas we do not accumulate those things that go with us (e.g. divine name recitation, purity, non-violence, truth, sacrifice, austerities, etc.) .

Gitaji / Swamiji have been perfectly clear... everything received will CERTAINLY depart. We are ansh (part, fragment) of only Paramatama (Supreme Consciousness). We will not last anywhere in the world. We are only a traveler. This is everyone's experience. Have you so far seen anyone, continue to stay here? or take anything with them when they depart? Swamiji continues to emphasize that we must respect our "anubhav" - your own personal experience.

What insecurity would there be if we truly understood the message of Gitaji / Swamiji regarding our true Self? Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namashkar to All,As in Vedanta:This Human birth is the right moment to attain Samadhi.This is in steps ... after practicing Yog (Karma, Bhakti & Gyan) we come to a state of 'Uparathi' (desireless of materials), then we come to 'Dharna' ( desireless for Living attachments), it is only then we start practicing 'Dhyan (Meditation) which leads to Samadhi and Moksha. -- RegardsSwapan PURKAYASTHA

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PRIOR POSTING

-Shree Hari-

Dera Vinayak Yajnik

The great false god of riches and greed. 'mammon', has become the universaldeity of the world for so many.The world we live in has been crafted, over the millenniums, slavery, imperialexploitation, human exploitation, capital exploitation. Whereby the whole humanstructure of this world is built on money.The way the heartless exploiters control a dark empire, is by fear, the fear ofpoverty, of loosing ones status in society, also fear for ones life.The unbridled greed of these dark ones, is now in the process of destroying theplanet, and the fabric of society.

What these dark ones don't want you to realize is summed up very neatly by MeeraDasji.

Also to understand the fate of these dark ones as they are described in BhagavadGita:9. Holding this view, these ruined souls of small intellects and fierce deeds,come forth as enemies of the world for its destruction.10. Filled with insatiable desires, full of hypocrisy, pride and arrogance,holding evil ideas through delusion, they work with impure resolves.11. Giving themselves over to immeasurable cares ending only with death,regarding gratification of lust as their highest aim, and feeling sure that thatis all12. Bound by a hundred ties of hope, given over to lust and anger, they striveto obtain by unlawful means hoards of wealth for sensual enjoyment.

.......20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, notattaining me, they thus fall, Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

With Respect and Divine Love.

Mike (Keenor)

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Here is an interesting analogy by Swamiji between Money and Paramatma realization-

Swamiji says - You cannot survive with money alone. If a person does not see the face of money for his entire life, he can still survive; but he cannot survive without food and water. The goal is therefore not money, but to have the things (food, water, clothes, shelter) for sustainance. We have given a lot of importance to money. It has become more important than even food. The brain has been destroyed by thinking that one cannot do without money. We do not realize what is truly more important. Money is just the means. The importance is of the objects (things - food, water etc) that are needed for sustainance.

The same rule does not apply for spiritual matters. In attaining Paramatma, the importance is of the end (goal), not the things. - Paramatma realization is not through things i.e. karan (body, mind, intellect etc) . We are separate from the "karan." God realisation is karan nirpeksh i.e. we are not dependent on the karan (instruments - body, mind, intellect) to attain Paramatma. We have to separate ourself from the instruments to realize Paramatma. Therefore let us give importance to Paramatma- to the end, the goal - not to the objects / instruments - body mind intellect.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar

It is very true, that we save money for emergencies in the future, for medicaltreatment, for the education of the kids, for buying houses for the kids, formarriages of sons and daughters, for travels, for recreation etc...if money isnot saved, we do feel insecure...But the real problem is many many families do not have enough money to maintainthe family at its bare minimum...so the question of saving money for the futuredoes not arise....living had to mouth has become very common...in the presenteconomy,Many people are losing their jobs, kids, after completing their education do notfind jobs...That is why youths are standing in long ques for Siddhi VinayakDarshan..Earning more money is always not possible but avoiding unneccesary expenses isalways possible...restrict the family to only one kid, dont buy luxury and prideitems, avoid excess purchases...Some people are not happy even if they have large number of shoes, sarees,shirts and ornaments...So change your attitude from materialistc tospiritual...eat satwick food, avoid bad company, smoking, liquor and such vicesand spend as much time as possible..with your family.... and save atleast 10 %of your income for the future emergencies...If you are greedy...you are likely to be cheated...if somebody says.. you giveme this much money...I will double your money...dont believe in suchpeople...and most important of all...dont believe in Amulets, angaras,sacrifices and vratas....just simple prayers, meditation and yoga will help youin finding the right path and overcome the difficulties...

....Gee Waman

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Namaste.My feeling is that there is nothing wrong in being successful and rich; The issues is that properly utilizing the money we have is often more difficult than even earning it. We must give - Dana or Charity - and Bhagavan tells us to whom you should give, and how to give: To give is right, gift given with this idea, to one who does no service in return, in a fit place and to a worthy person, that gift is held to be Sâttvika. And what is given with a view to receiving in return, or looking for the fruit, or again reluctantly, that gift is held to be Râjasika.The gift that is given at the wrong place or time, to unworthy persons, without regard or with disdain, that is declared to be Tâmasika.GEETA 17 verses 20 to 22 Steadiness in Yajna, austerity and gift is also called 'Sat': as also action in connection with these (or, action for the sake of the Lord) is called Sat.Whatever is sacrificed, given or performed, and whatever austerity is practised without Shraddhâ, it is called Asat, O Pârtha; it is naught here or hereafter.GEETA 17 verses 27, 28 This is how you get rid of the insecurity - Bhagavan says to give in a fit place and to a worthy person. Most people who have this million dollars in the bank or in the mattress (you really should not have it there!), think of the money all the time, 24/7 and develop delusion and conceit: "This to-day has been gained by me; this desire I shall obtain; this is mine, and this wealth also shall be mine in future."That enemy has been slain by me, and others also shall I slay. I am the lord, I enjoy, I am successful, powerful and happy."I am rich and well-born. Who else is equal to me? I will sacrifice, I will give, I will rejoice." GEETA 17 Verses 13 to 15 Get rid of that insecurity and conceit - give some, give Dana, to those who deserve - to those who need it to teach Geeta, to educate people, and to help those in need.

Work hard ! Imbibe in the Geeta ! Engage in Satsangh and give and help for good causes else that wealth is worthless. Remember, all we do, all we offer, all we give, all our actions, and how we live our lives are done as an offering to Bhagavan. Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me. GEETA 9 Verse 27 Another important aspect of wealth and education, is the inherent risk of False Ego, Ostentatious lifestyle, and Arrogance, even religious arrogance - they "disregard ordinance." Bhagavan alerts us to forsake those qualities and get rid of the "I-ness": Thus deluded by ignorance, Bewildered by many a fancy, covered by the meshes of delusion, addicted to the gratification of lust, they fall down into a foul hell.Self-conceited, haughty, filled with the pride and intoxication of wealth, they perform sacrifices in name, out of ostentation, disregarding ordinance;Possessed of egoism, power, insolence, lust and wrath, these malignant people hate Me (the Self within) in their own bodies and those of others.These malicious and cruel evildoers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds. Obtaining the Asurika wombs, and deluded birth after birth, not attaining to Me, they thus fall, O son of Kunti, into a still lower condition.GEETA 16 verses 16 to 20 Forsaking egoism, power, pride, lust, wrath and property, freed from the notion of "mine," and tranquil, he is fit for becoming Brahman. GEETA 18:53 Money and riches cannot provide you with security if you are obsessed and conceited with it; nor is it a path, by itself, to becoming a Brahman. That money and wealth, if used properly for Dana, in the service of the needy and to educate and inform people about Geeta, will provide you with all the security you ever wanted, as well as a sure path to becoming Brahman. Bhagavan gives it to you; He gives you freedom to use it; ultimately, it is your choice whether you rise, or fall down into a "foul hell." Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself. Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo -----------------------------Pranaam. Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so. Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace. Regards,NandaTAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)----------------------------- Narain ! Narain !! Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise should not become a penalty for readers. He has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !! Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

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Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................ IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself ................. and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself ' which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not " and that too.......... only , if you so do choose ! if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you.... you may keep asking question after question after question... and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth .............. and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you .... much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual...................., but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!! and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............ beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt......... but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself .......... the Nothingness that you truly are !! narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........ Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1....... read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth..................... that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............ and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know .............. you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says ! Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate................. with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee ................. and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !! jai jai Krishna ................ AUM !! narinder

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PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already been pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

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Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

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PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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April 28, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

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NEW POSTING

Shree Krishna

Money is received by you without efforts so long as it is necessary for you. Beyond that it is received by operation of destiny and no amount of efforts can get you money beyond what is destined for you. Hence it is a useless topic to deliberate upon. When you have no role to play in getting it by your present efforts, why you should waste time ? Idiots are those who run after it. YOU DONT GET MONEY BY YOUR PRESENT KARMAS.

Swami Rupesh Kumar

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shree hari:

ram ram.

essence of Gita is verse 66 of chapter 18 in which is said one shall have no worries (how to live, how to accumulate things and money etc) when surrendered completely (not depending on anyone except Paramaatmaa) and that's all. do surrender and experience the truth.

kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam

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Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Do we really need to find faults with "money" in itself?I think faults, blames, attachments, insecurity, greed etc etc lie within ourselves in terms of our attitude toward "things outside". They don't hold us back, on the contrary we hold on to them as means of security which they don't possess, for no fault of theirs! What we need to possess always possesses us!As long as we continue to find faults outside ourselves, we will never be free of problems. Money has no power in itself to hold us back or to make us free. It is an instrument we humans have devised with God given intelligence to handle fair exchanges of goods and services as our societies become more and more complex due to science and technological growth, national and global markets etc. To the extent, the system is abused, we all become victims! It is our own faults, not of money.Once we stop finding faults outside, we can look within us more objectively and will definitely find the source of our insecurity in our desires to be secure. Ultimately we may discover that our highest security is in knowing there is no security "out there" and there is no insecurity "in here"! Just by discovering that desires are rooted in our feelings of "inwardly lacking" due entirely to the self imposed limitations of identification with "body-mind", Security is ours! Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadhaks

I read a book called Star Signs written by Linda Goodman. Her theory on insurance has helped me great deal establish a fairly comfortable relationship with money.

Thank you

Veena----------

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PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Money is the most "raddi" (worst/most third grade) thing in this world. Even prostitutes, robbers, sinner mosts, under world men, devils and demons have money with them. If that is some yardstick of progress or achievement.

Better than money are "things" , like food grains /cloths etc. If you don't have money but have things you can still live. Better than things are "animals". Horses, cows, dogs, goats, sheep ,fish etc the things are generated out of them. Better than animals are "people"- other human beings. You get money/things only from other people. Even your body has been received by you from other people only. Better than people are devotees of Paramatma . They serve humanity at large without any selfish motive. And then of course is the Paramatma Himself - the PARAM ASHRAY DAATA- the upper most limit of shelter. You need no other shelter once you have taken shelter of Him. The very desire for shelter extinguishes.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Swamiji says that it is so strange that day and night we are engaged in efforts to earn and accumulate those things for security (money, wealth, titles, knowledge, power, etc) that do not go with us... Whereas we do not accumulate those things that go with us (e.g. divine name recitation, purity, non-violence, truth, sacrifice, austerities, etc.) .

Gitaji / Swamiji have been perfectly clear... everything received will CERTAINLY depart. We are ansh (part, fragment) of only Paramatama (Supreme Consciousness). We will not last anywhere in the world. We are only a traveler. This is everyone's experience. Have you so far seen anyone, continue to stay here? or take anything with them when they depart? Swamiji continues to emphasize that we must respect our "anubhav" - your own personal experience.

What insecurity would there be if we truly understood the message of Gitaji / Swamiji regarding our true Self? Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namashkar to All,

As in Vedanta:This Human birth is the right moment to attain Samadhi.This is in steps ... after practicing Yog (Karma, Bhakti & Gyan) we come to a state of 'Uparathi' (desireless of materials), then we come to 'Dharna' ( desireless for Living attachments), it is only then we start practicing 'Dhyan (Meditation) which leads to Samadhi and Moksha. -- Regards

Swapan PURKAYASTHA

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PRIOR POSTING

-Shree Hari-

Dera Vinayak Yajnik

The great false god of riches and greed. 'mammon', has become the universaldeity of the world for so many.The world we live in has been crafted, over the millenniums, slavery, imperialexploitation, human exploitation, capital exploitation. Whereby the whole humanstructure of this world is built on money.The way the heartless exploiters control a dark empire, is by fear, the fear ofpoverty, of loosing ones status in society, also fear for ones life.The unbridled greed of these dark ones, is now in the process of destroying theplanet, and the fabric of society.

What these dark ones don't want you to realize is summed up very neatly by MeeraDasji.

Also to understand the fate of these dark ones as they are described in BhagavadGita:9. Holding this view, these ruined souls of small intellects and fierce deeds,come forth as enemies of the world for its destruction.10. Filled with insatiable desires, full of hypocrisy, pride and arrogance,holding evil ideas through delusion, they work with impure resolves.11. Giving themselves over to immeasurable cares ending only with death,regarding gratification of lust as their highest aim, and feeling sure that thatis all12. Bound by a hundred ties of hope, given over to lust and anger, they striveto obtain by unlawful means hoards of wealth for sensual enjoyment.

.......20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, notattaining me, they thus fall, Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

With Respect and Divine Love.

Mike (Keenor)

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Here is an interesting analogy by Swamiji between Money and Paramatma realization-

Swamiji says - You cannot survive with money alone. If a person does not see the face of money for his entire life, he can still survive; but he cannot survive without food and water. The goal is therefore not money, but to have the things (food, water, clothes, shelter) for sustainance. We have given a lot of importance to money. It has become more important than even food. The brain has been destroyed by thinking that one cannot do without money. We do not realize what is truly more important. Money is just the means. The importance is of the objects (things - food, water etc) that are needed for sustainance.

The same rule does not apply for spiritual matters. In attaining Paramatma, the importance is of the end (goal), not the things. - Paramatma realization is not through things i.e. karan (body, mind, intellect etc) . We are separate from the "karan." God realisation is karan nirpeksh i.e. we are not dependent on the karan (instruments - body, mind, intellect) to attain Paramatma. We have to separate ourself from the instruments to realize Paramatma. Therefore let us give importance to Paramatma- to the end, the goal - not to the objects / instruments - body mind intellect.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar

It is very true, that we save money for emergencies in the future, for medicaltreatment, for the education of the kids, for buying houses for the kids, formarriages of sons and daughters, for travels, for recreation etc...if money isnot saved, we do feel insecure...But the real problem is many many families do not have enough money to maintainthe family at its bare minimum...so the question of saving money for the futuredoes not arise....living had to mouth has become very common...in the presenteconomy,Many people are losing their jobs, kids, after completing their education do notfind jobs...That is why youths are standing in long ques for Siddhi VinayakDarshan..Earning more money is always not possible but avoiding unneccesary expenses isalways possible...restrict the family to only one kid, dont buy luxury and prideitems, avoid excess purchases...Some people are not happy even if they have large number of shoes, sarees,shirts and ornaments...So change your attitude from materialistc tospiritual...eat satwick food, avoid bad company, smoking, liquor and such vicesand spend as much time as possible..with your family.... and save atleast 10 %of your income for the future emergencies...If you are greedy...you are likely to be cheated...if somebody says.. you giveme this much money...I will double your money...dont believe in suchpeople...and most important of all...dont believe in Amulets, angaras,sacrifices and vratas....just simple prayers, meditation and yoga will help youin finding the right path and overcome the difficulties...

....Gee Waman

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Namaste.My feeling is that there is nothing wrong in being successful and rich; The issues is that properly utilizing the money we have is often more difficult than even earning it. We must give - Dana or Charity - and Bhagavan tells us to whom you should give, and how to give: To give is right, gift given with this idea, to one who does no service in return, in a fit place and to a worthy person, that gift is held to be Sâttvika. And what is given with a view to receiving in return, or looking for the fruit, or again reluctantly, that gift is held to be Râjasika.The gift that is given at the wrong place or time, to unworthy persons, without regard or with disdain, that is declared to be Tâmasika.GEETA 17 verses 20 to 22 Steadiness in Yajna, austerity and gift is also called 'Sat': as also action in connection with these (or, action for the sake of the Lord) is called Sat.Whatever is sacrificed, given or performed, and whatever austerity is practised without Shraddhâ, it is called Asat, O Pârtha; it is naught here or hereafter.GEETA 17 verses 27, 28 This is how you get rid of the insecurity - Bhagavan says to give in a fit place and to a worthy person. Most people who have this million dollars in the bank or in the mattress (you really should not have it there!), think of the money all the time, 24/7 and develop delusion and conceit: "This to-day has been gained by me; this desire I shall obtain; this is mine, and this wealth also shall be mine in future."That enemy has been slain by me, and others also shall I slay. I am the lord, I enjoy, I am successful, powerful and happy."I am rich and well-born. Who else is equal to me? I will sacrifice, I will give, I will rejoice." GEETA 17 Verses 13 to 15 Get rid of that insecurity and conceit - give some, give Dana, to those who deserve - to those who need it to teach Geeta, to educate people, and to help those in need.

Work hard ! Imbibe in the Geeta ! Engage in Satsangh and give and help for good causes else that wealth is worthless. Remember, all we do, all we offer, all we give, all our actions, and how we live our lives are done as an offering to Bhagavan. Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me. GEETA 9 Verse 27 Another important aspect of wealth and education, is the inherent risk of False Ego, Ostentatious lifestyle, and Arrogance, even religious arrogance - they "disregard ordinance." Bhagavan alerts us to forsake those qualities and get rid of the "I-ness": Thus deluded by ignorance, Bewildered by many a fancy, covered by the meshes of delusion, addicted to the gratification of lust, they fall down into a foul hell.Self-conceited, haughty, filled with the pride and intoxication of wealth, they perform sacrifices in name, out of ostentation, disregarding ordinance;Possessed of egoism, power, insolence, lust and wrath, these malignant people hate Me (the Self within) in their own bodies and those of others.These malicious and cruel evildoers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds. Obtaining the Asurika wombs, and deluded birth after birth, not attaining to Me, they thus fall, O son of Kunti, into a still lower condition.GEETA 16 verses 16 to 20 Forsaking egoism, power, pride, lust, wrath and property, freed from the notion of "mine," and tranquil, he is fit for becoming Brahman. GEETA 18:53 Money and riches cannot provide you with security if you are obsessed and conceited with it; nor is it a path, by itself, to becoming a Brahman. That money and wealth, if used properly for Dana, in the service of the needy and to educate and inform people about Geeta, will provide you with all the security you ever wanted, as well as a sure path to becoming Brahman. Bhagavan gives it to you; He gives you freedom to use it; ultimately, it is your choice whether you rise, or fall down into a "foul hell." Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself. Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo -----------------------------Pranaam. Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so. Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace. Regards,NandaTAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)----------------------------- Narain ! Narain !! Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise should not become a penalty for readers. He has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !! Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

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Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................ IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself ................. and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself ' which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not " and that too.......... only , if you so do choose ! if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you.... you may keep asking question after question after question... and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth .............. and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you .... much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual...................., but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!! and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............ beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt......... but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself .......... the Nothingness that you truly are !! narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........ Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1....... read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth..................... that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............ and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know .............. you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says ! Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate................. with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee ................. and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !! jai jai Krishna ................ AUM !! narinder

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PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already been pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

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Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

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PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

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May 1, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

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NEW POSTING

Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?Prathap Bhat: Do we really need to find faults with "money" in itself? I think faults, blames, attachments, insecurity, greed etc etc lie within ourselves in terms of our attitude toward "things outside". They don't hold us back, on the contrary we hold on to them as means of security which they don't possess, for no fault of theirs! What we need to possess always possesses us!I think Pratapji penetrates the bottom of the question precisely … Yes ... "I" is the problem … not the money! Getting rid of Lakshmi is a rediculous idea … getting rid of our wrong notions toward the same is an excellent idea. As a matter of fact, this is true toward anything else as well. The very notion of "getting rid of something" shows a very strong ownership on the same thing ... who are we to "acquire" or "get rid of" anything at all? Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam - if we insist to perceive ownership, that belongs to only one fellow, The Life, Vasudeva.If we think money (wealth) is causing us some problem, that just proves that our attitude toward the same is corrupt. If our attitude toward wealth is corrupt … our appreciation of Mother Laksmi is incorrect. If our appreciation of Her is incorrect … our appreciation of Her Spouse, Bhagavan Narayana, is incorrect as well.Lakshmi (wealth) stays where her spouse, Narayana (life), stays. They are inseperable even in one's ignorance. We crave for wealth when we crave for life and vice versa. We try to assert our ownership over wealth because we believe toown our lives as well. We are in trouble because we have not bothered to understand, appreciate and respect the life we are bestowed with in the first place. When we have no understanding, appreciation and respect for Narayana, how can we ever show the same toward any of His devine components such as Mother Lakshmi?If the Narayana is the life we own, the Lakshmi is the wealth we own …

if the Narayana is the life we are blessed with, the Lakshmi is the life supporting resources we are blessed with.If Narayana is the everlasting name we crave to own, fame is the Lakshmi we will pursue … if the Narayana is the only fame in our understanding, His name is the Lakshmi we seek.If Narayana is the comfort we bargain, Lakshmi is the money we chase …

If Narayana is the only comfort in our understanding, His memory is the Lakshmi we follow.If Narayana is the position we crave to gain, Lakshmi is the success we chase …If Narayana is the only Position we see ever, His heart is the Lakshmi we stay at.If Narayana is the birth we rejoice, Lakshmi is the parents and children we loveIf Narayana is the creation (Brahma) that we worship, Lakshmi is the knowledge (Gnyaana) in Him.If Narayana is the life we celebrate, Lakshmi is the accomplishments we are proud of …

If Narayana is the essence of life (Vishnu) that we worship, Lakshmi is the food (Anna) that radiates from Him.If Narayana is the death we dread, Lakshmi is the ageing (dissipating energy) that we fear …

If Narayana is the abode of Peace (Shiva) beyond our lives, Lakshmi is the energy (Shakti) that pours out from Him.If Narayana is The Absolute (Para Brahma), Lakshmi is the very desire for attaining the same, Mumukshattva.Getting rid of Lakshmi is rediculous - useless as well as impossible. Getting rid of our ignorance regarding Mother Lakshmi reveals the knowledge of Her Spouse - Bhagavan Narayana, Himself.Maa gridhah kasyasviddhanam … never ever try to own Mother Lakshmi even in the subtlest levels of devotion … She does not "belong" to anybody; if at all you insist to perceive belongingness, She belongs to Him, The Vasudeva. As a matter of fact, She is inseparable from Her Spouse. Never ever attempt to split the inseparable union of The Two - Life and Sustenance ... never pretend to own a dominion independent of THAT UNION to believe hegemony over THAT either … the very notion brings calamity obliterating our very presence into the oblivion of ignorance overwhelmed with miseries.I bow to Pratapji … what we need is correction within … that is all.Respects.Naga Narayana

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Swamiji has been very clear about real money ( wealth)... real security... Swamiji says God likes simplicity. He does not like trickery. In Swamiji's eyes... true wealth, true security was chanting Bhagwaan's name constantly. Only this is true wealth, true security. Only this wealth will go with us. In today's world people may call us fools - people call those clever who earn a lot of money. But the money stays here and God's name goes with you. The choice is ours to decide who is really a fool ? The best things in life are easily available to all... air, water..... etc. God's name is open for one and all. All have a right over it. You can spend all you want and it keeps growing - it never diminishes. This age and time is very good for those who want to attain God. Let no one remain poor. Everyone can earn this wealth. Therefore earn true wealth. Make it your nature. Never forget God. Always chant His name. O Lord - let me never forget You - says Swamiji. Meera Das, Ram Ram

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Krishna Money is received by you without efforts so long as it is necessary for you. Beyond that it is received by operation of destiny and no amount of efforts can get you money beyond what is destined for you. Hence it is a useless topic to deliberate upon. When you have no role to play in getting it by your present efforts, why you should waste time ? Idiots are those who run after it. YOU DONT GET MONEY BY YOUR PRESENT KARMAS. Swami Rupesh Kumar----------shree hari:

ram ram.

essence of Gita is verse 66 of chapter 18 in which is said one shall have no worries (how to live, how to accumulate things and money etc) when surrendered completely (not depending on anyone except Paramaatmaa) and that's all. do surrender and experience the truth.

kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam

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Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Do we really need to find faults with "money" in itself?I think faults, blames, attachments, insecurity, greed etc etc lie within ourselves in terms of our attitude toward "things outside". They don't hold us back, on the contrary we hold on to them as means of security which they don't possess, for no fault of theirs! What we need to possess always possesses us!As long as we continue to find faults outside ourselves, we will never be free of problems. Money has no power in itself to hold us back or to make us free. It is an instrument we humans have devised with God given intelligence to handle fair exchanges of goods and services as our societies become more and more complex due to science and technological growth, national and global markets etc. To the extent, the system is abused, we all become victims! It is our own faults, not of money.Once we stop finding faults outside, we can look within us more objectively and will definitely find the source of our insecurity in our desires to be secure. Ultimately we may discover that our highest security is in knowing there is no security "out there" and there is no insecurity "in here"! Just by discovering that desires are rooted in our feelings of "inwardly lacking" due entirely to the self imposed limitations of identification with "body-mind", Security is ours! Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt----------------------

Dear SadhaksI read a book called Star Signs written by Linda Goodman. Her theory on insurance has helped me great deal establish a fairly comfortable relationship with money.Thank youVeena ----------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Money is the most "raddi" (worst/most third grade) thing in this world. Even prostitutes, robbers, sinner mosts, under world men, devils and demons have money with them. If that is some yardstick of progress or achievement.

Better than money are "things" , like food grains /cloths etc. If you don't have money but have things you can still live. Better than things are "animals". Horses, cows, dogs, goats, sheep ,fish etc the things are generated out of them. Better than animals are "people"- other human beings. You get money/things only from other people. Even your body has been received by you from other people only. Better than people are devotees of Paramatma . They serve humanity at large without any selfish motive. And then of course is the Paramatma Himself - the PARAM ASHRAY DAATA- the upper most limit of shelter. You need no other shelter once you have taken shelter of Him. The very desire for shelter extinguishes. Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Swamiji says that it is so strange that day and night we are engaged in efforts to earn and accumulate those things for security (money, wealth, titles, knowledge, power, etc) that do not go with us... Whereas we do not accumulate those things that go with us (e.g. divine name recitation, purity, non-violence, truth, sacrifice, austerities, etc.) .

Gitaji / Swamiji have been perfectly clear... everything received will CERTAINLY depart. We are ansh (part, fragment) of only Paramatama (Supreme Consciousness). We will not last anywhere in the world. We are only a traveler. This is everyone's experience. Have you so far seen anyone, continue to stay here? or take anything with them when they depart? Swamiji continues to emphasize that we must respect our "anubhav" - your own personal experience.

What insecurity would there be if we truly understood the message of Gitaji / Swamiji regarding our true Self? Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namashkar to All,

As in Vedanta:This Human birth is the right moment to attain Samadhi.This is in steps ... after practicing Yog (Karma, Bhakti & Gyan) we come to a state of 'Uparathi' (desireless of materials), then we come to 'Dharna' ( desireless for Living attachments), it is only then we start practicing 'Dhyan (Meditation) which leads to Samadhi and Moksha. -- Regards

Swapan PURKAYASTHA

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PRIOR POSTING

-Shree Hari-

Dera Vinayak Yajnik

The great false god of riches and greed. 'mammon', has become the universaldeity of the world for so many.The world we live in has been crafted, over the millenniums, slavery, imperialexploitation, human exploitation, capital exploitation. Whereby the whole humanstructure of this world is built on money.The way the heartless exploiters control a dark empire, is by fear, the fear ofpoverty, of loosing ones status in society, also fear for ones life.The unbridled greed of these dark ones, is now in the process of destroying theplanet, and the fabric of society.

What these dark ones don't want you to realize is summed up very neatly by MeeraDasji.

Also to understand the fate of these dark ones as they are described in BhagavadGita:9. Holding this view, these ruined souls of small intellects and fierce deeds,come forth as enemies of the world for its destruction.10. Filled with insatiable desires, full of hypocrisy, pride and arrogance,holding evil ideas through delusion, they work with impure resolves.11. Giving themselves over to immeasurable cares ending only with death,regarding gratification of lust as their highest aim, and feeling sure that thatis all12. Bound by a hundred ties of hope, given over to lust and anger, they striveto obtain by unlawful means hoards of wealth for sensual enjoyment.

.......20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, notattaining me, they thus fall, Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

With Respect and Divine Love.

Mike (Keenor)

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Here is an interesting analogy by Swamiji between Money and Paramatma realization-

Swamiji says - You cannot survive with money alone. If a person does not see the face of money for his entire life, he can still survive; but he cannot survive without food and water. The goal is therefore not money, but to have the things (food, water, clothes, shelter) for sustainance. We have given a lot of importance to money. It has become more important than even food. The brain has been destroyed by thinking that one cannot do without money. We do not realize what is truly more important. Money is just the means. The importance is of the objects (things - food, water etc) that are needed for sustainance.

The same rule does not apply for spiritual matters. In attaining Paramatma, the importance is of the end (goal), not the things. - Paramatma realization is not through things i.e. karan (body, mind, intellect etc) . We are separate from the "karan." God realisation is karan nirpeksh i.e. we are not dependent on the karan (instruments - body, mind, intellect) to attain Paramatma. We have to separate ourself from the instruments to realize Paramatma. Therefore let us give importance to Paramatma- to the end, the goal - not to the objects / instruments - body mind intellect.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar

It is very true, that we save money for emergencies in the future, for medicaltreatment, for the education of the kids, for buying houses for the kids, formarriages of sons and daughters, for travels, for recreation etc...if money isnot saved, we do feel insecure...But the real problem is many many families do not have enough money to maintainthe family at its bare minimum...so the question of saving money for the futuredoes not arise....living had to mouth has become very common...in the presenteconomy,Many people are losing their jobs, kids, after completing their education do notfind jobs...That is why youths are standing in long ques for Siddhi VinayakDarshan..Earning more money is always not possible but avoiding unneccesary expenses isalways possible...restrict the family to only one kid, dont buy luxury and prideitems, avoid excess purchases...Some people are not happy even if they have large number of shoes, sarees,shirts and ornaments...So change your attitude from materialistc tospiritual...eat satwick food, avoid bad company, smoking, liquor and such vicesand spend as much time as possible..with your family.... and save atleast 10 %of your income for the future emergencies...If you are greedy...you are likely to be cheated...if somebody says.. you giveme this much money...I will double your money...dont believe in suchpeople...and most important of all...dont believe in Amulets, angaras,sacrifices and vratas....just simple prayers, meditation and yoga will help youin finding the right path and overcome the difficulties...

....Gee Waman

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Namaste.My feeling is that there is nothing wrong in being successful and rich; The issues is that properly utilizing the money we have is often more difficult than even earning it. We must give - Dana or Charity - and Bhagavan tells us to whom you should give, and how to give: To give is right, gift given with this idea, to one who does no service in return, in a fit place and to a worthy person, that gift is held to be Sâttvika. And what is given with a view to receiving in return, or looking for the fruit, or again reluctantly, that gift is held to be Râjasika.The gift that is given at the wrong place or time, to unworthy persons, without regard or with disdain, that is declared to be Tâmasika.GEETA 17 verses 20 to 22 Steadiness in Yajna, austerity and gift is also called 'Sat': as also action in connection with these (or, action for the sake of the Lord) is called Sat.Whatever is sacrificed, given or performed, and whatever austerity is practised without Shraddhâ, it is called Asat, O Pârtha; it is naught here or hereafter.GEETA 17 verses 27, 28 This is how you get rid of the insecurity - Bhagavan says to give in a fit place and to a worthy person. Most people who have this million dollars in the bank or in the mattress (you really should not have it there!), think of the money all the time, 24/7 and develop delusion and conceit: "This to-day has been gained by me; this desire I shall obtain; this is mine, and this wealth also shall be mine in future."That enemy has been slain by me, and others also shall I slay. I am the lord, I enjoy, I am successful, powerful and happy."I am rich and well-born. Who else is equal to me? I will sacrifice, I will give, I will rejoice." GEETA 17 Verses 13 to 15 Get rid of that insecurity and conceit - give some, give Dana, to those who deserve - to those who need it to teach Geeta, to educate people, and to help those in need.

Work hard ! Imbibe in the Geeta ! Engage in Satsangh and give and help for good causes else that wealth is worthless. Remember, all we do, all we offer, all we give, all our actions, and how we live our lives are done as an offering to Bhagavan. Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me. GEETA 9 Verse 27 Another important aspect of wealth and education, is the inherent risk of False Ego, Ostentatious lifestyle, and Arrogance, even religious arrogance - they "disregard ordinance." Bhagavan alerts us to forsake those qualities and get rid of the "I-ness": Thus deluded by ignorance, Bewildered by many a fancy, covered by the meshes of delusion, addicted to the gratification of lust, they fall down into a foul hell.Self-conceited, haughty, filled with the pride and intoxication of wealth, they perform sacrifices in name, out of ostentation, disregarding ordinance;Possessed of egoism, power, insolence, lust and wrath, these malignant people hate Me (the Self within) in their own bodies and those of others.These malicious and cruel evildoers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds. Obtaining the Asurika wombs, and deluded birth after birth, not attaining to Me, they thus fall, O son of Kunti, into a still lower condition.GEETA 16 verses 16 to 20 Forsaking egoism, power, pride, lust, wrath and property, freed from the notion of "mine," and tranquil, he is fit for becoming Brahman. GEETA 18:53 Money and riches cannot provide you with security if you are obsessed and conceited with it; nor is it a path, by itself, to becoming a Brahman. That money and wealth, if used properly for Dana, in the service of the needy and to educate and inform people about Geeta, will provide you with all the security you ever wanted, as well as a sure path to becoming Brahman. Bhagavan gives it to you; He gives you freedom to use it; ultimately, it is your choice whether you rise, or fall down into a "foul hell." Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself. Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo -----------------------------Pranaam. Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so. Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace. Regards,NandaTAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)----------------------------- Narain ! Narain !! Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise should not become a penalty for readers. He has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !! Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings. Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH? No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?". Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money. We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

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Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................ IS " Acceptance " Accepting yourself .......... Accept Yourself ................. and accepting yourself can only happen......... if you come to ' know yourself ' which can never really happen ... all that can happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not " and that too.......... only , if you so do choose ! if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you.... you may keep asking question after question after question... and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth .............. and also repeating the words intellectually enjoyed, to others asking the same questions from you .... much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings deep, of being spiritual...................., but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!! and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always remain a seeking thirsting soul ............ beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt......... but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul !! thirsting to be yourself .......... the Nothingness that you truly are !! narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........ Chandogya Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1....... read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth..................... that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know' ............ and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know .............. you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says ! Such, truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance ! allow narinder to illustrate................. with reference to the topic under discussion............... should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee ................. and should narinder ' Not accept'.... should narinder woo security ....................... fear and insecurity is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure he gets to be !! jai jai Krishna ................ AUM !! narinder

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PRIOR POSTING

Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply. Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already been pre-arranged by Paramatma (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!! We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit - sadhaka/message/1974

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you ! Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a CHANGE in him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of "consciousness " ! Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful. Narain! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----------------------Dear Sadaks,Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.Jai Sri Krishna B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------PRIOR POSTING

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!Why do we feel insecured at all?Swamiji has already answered it! Feeling of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas! To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being! If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless" Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it! So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care. He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen

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Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree sarathy partha

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PRIOR POSTING

:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, andnow it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, dayafter day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now whatdoes this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And itchangesand only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would itchange everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is movingtowards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has beenlived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much liferemains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, thatmany years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death isnearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. Thisbody is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engagein sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such agravemistake.

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for agood cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does notmean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a povertystricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you areunable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then whatis the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomesnon-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings arethrough honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it isdiscretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. Onebecomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or twothousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle wasused up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him forreducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but thebase (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. Ifyou are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, thecapital?The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this moneystacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. Buton having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it foruseful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One mustcome to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then itmust be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it foryour self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing toincrease the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best ofopportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that itwill be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized thatwould be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Justlike work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events wherethere is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too ifthe sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just likea businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because themarket price will be higher in the future, and some places have alreadyincreased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me evenborrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In thismanner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise forspending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend forgood causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be thatgreed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make acontribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get suchan opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

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GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

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May 2, 2009

QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.Ram RamJay Narayanvinayak yajnik

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NEW POSTING

Hari OmThe message of Deosharanji Bisnauth on money is a very well compiled message. Most of the things he stated matches with overall views of Scriptures, Saints and Sages etc. Beautiful message ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

This is not exact words from Swamiji's message... but my understanding is that insecurity has nothing to do with how much money we may have ! or how rich (wealthy) we are!

Somewhere in a lecture Swamiji talks about a rich man is he who has the least number of wants (desires) and a beggar is he who has the most wants and desires. so I am assuming that one who has the least wants may also be fairly secure. Therefore (again an assumption) the insecurity comes from having too many wants and desires ...and the fear of not being able to fulfill them.. .on the other hand security comes from less wants and desires.

One who has faith in God and in Gita 9:22 and knows full well that God will provide for all "aavashyaktaa" (essential needs) will never have to feel insecure or worried about money. Meera Das Ram Ram

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Dear Sadhaks,

Very True!!! We tend to find false in everything else except ourselves.. Money is maya, woman/man is maya, world is maya etc etc. We see all kinds of mayas when our drishti is not on the Absolute, SELF, Paramatma, Brahman or Consciousness. We need to shift our drishti from maya to Parmatma.. Only HE exist...

If we see Maya at all this means we have not seen Gopala at all.

rich is Gopala, poor is Gopala

sukh is Gopala, dukh is Gopala

tu is Gopala, main is Gopala

where is maya when all is Gopala ?

with Love,

A sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

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Dear Sadaks,Sri Maha Lakshmi is in the heart of Sri Vishnu. HE has given HER that status. Sadaks are thinking in terms of currency and coins or gold. These things came only recently. In old age time Sri Lakshmi is considered as 9 Lakshmies, starting from Daniya Lakshmi, Santhana Lakshmi etc. SHE is blesser of wealth. In most cases SHE blesses saints/ Bakthas. Like in case of Badrachala Ramadoss, only mother Seetha (As lakshmi) tells to Sri Rama (Vishnu) to save Ramadoss by paying dues to the muslim king called Taanisha. Of recent in 20th century Thyagaraya in south India sang so many songs on Sri Rama wonderfully. But he saved not a penny. He had only one daughter for marriage. But mother Lakshmi sends another Baktha to Thygaraya helps to perform marriage in grand manner.The question is very clear. We are not answering correctly. In the question note the word "accumulate" which is none of us should think to accumulate/aquire more money by means of greed or desire. Only money that comes by Dharmic business or by doing Dharmic Karma along is safe. Police, politician accumulate money which is incorrect. That is what Sri Vinayak means I hope.Sadaks please do not pull God and Goddesses in our discussion.Sant Tukaram was offered by Marathi Shivaji gold and ornaments. He said in his abang that is equal to cow flesh, because he wanted money to come by hard work and not as gift. Thygaraja was offered by king Saraboji gold ornaments. He refused and said he is happy in the Rama Nama. He was doing well with what ever he got. So money coming by way of praise or as gift is not good he said, as and when gift received he becomes credited to oblige king Saraboji. May be to sing on king praise. One to have money or not is not in his hand. A child born with golden spoon is blessing of HER for that child in earlier birth did plenty of Dana/Dharma/Service. Accumulate money is totally wrong.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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Hari OmI have never stated anytime, anywhere that there is any thing wrong in having money. I just at the outset stated that money is the most inferior thing in the world - and I stand by it. It is the most inferior thing from every point of view including for hoarding it, possessing it and when saved for future by even a non sadhak. There is nothing wrong in genuine saving of money. It is a very good topic in fact, from spiritual and sadhak point of view. A lot of things should be deliberated on the subject.I shall also deal fully on this topic. Swamiji Himself at a quite a few places talked about it. At the outset let me state that money ( Goddess Laxmi) as far as one human life is concerned does not necessarily stays only where Naraina is there. Similarly, where ever Laxmiji is there, it not necessary that Naraina also shall be there. I have no doubt on the same. It is not necessary, but some sadhaks , saints may be in a very affluent state like King Janaka. But everywhere it is not found.Traditionally, the real bhaktas have been found to be poor. In Bhagvatam also Lord Krishna says that I first take away entire money from Devotees (Bhaktas) and then I give them entire affluence in abundance- as He did with Sudamaji. Hence the Bhaktas are not necessarily always always rich. More often than not they have lived poor from worldly possessions. That is one great propellor to drive a sadhak intensely towards "detachment" from worldly possessions and the desire for it.Similarly, abundant wealth till their death has often been found with enemies of God be it Raavana or Kansa or Duryodhana or Shishupala and many many others . In Kaliyuga we find very frequently such giants. In fact excess money with a person frequently if not almost necessarily,generates ego in a human being which causes his downfall. That when read with BG 9:30/31 - na me bhaktah pranasyati - clearly suggests it is not necessary that wherever is Laxmi , God also will be there. Not at all necessary.In fact there is one beautiful two liner very oftenly quoted by Saints and Sages :SUT DAARA AUR LAXMI PAAPI KE BHI HOYSon, Wife and Money remain (adequately) also with a sinner.We shall deliberate further reg observations of Pratapji also and on many commonly unknown principles pertaining to money from books/discourses of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N