Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya), and Means (Saadhan)

April 23, 2009

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

In the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that " Sadhak is he who does

not accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya

(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa). " This

is what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request to

the Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -

1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak real

and unreal both ?

2) To that which is referred as the " other " is that " other " real or unreal or

both?

With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam

---------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,

are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in all

appearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. Tripur

Rahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, sounds

emerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, my

Lord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence so

many times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!

Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!

Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------

:Shree Hari:

Ram Ram

Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)

Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there is

neither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world is

merely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent and

the world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS

(Existent) – " naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah " (Gita 2:16).

" Not " is naturally non-existent and " is " is naturally existent. That IS

(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is non

existent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),

that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.

From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay without

the End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot stay

without the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God)

and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is

that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be

nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are

aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant is

only he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim

(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neither

action, nor object.

What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind of

an end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What a

child that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live without

the child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the power

or strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in the

ocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak and

the End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there is

affinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. But

when affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain an

aspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).

(to be continued)

From " Salvation of Mankind " in English pg 107 and " Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke

Liye " in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.

Ram Ram

-----------------------

-------

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2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address

etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

bracketed.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

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April 24, 2009

Shree HariRam Ram

In the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that "Sadhak is he who doesnot accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa)." Thisis what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request tothe Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -

1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak realand unreal both ?

2) To that which is referred as the "other" is that "other" real or unreal orboth?

With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

Hari OmSadhak is always "unmanifest" ! Sadhak is never "sharira" (body). Hence sadhak is always SAT !! Sadhak is a "bhava sharira" ( an inner sentiment) . "Other" can only be "unreal"( Asat) . Hence first you are taught to renounce "other" (inert) and once you have grasped that, you are taught "Vasudev Sarvam". In fact, only to an ignorant, it is said: This is not snake, this is rope. Hence : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi ( Only God is mine, no other is mine) . To a knowledeable, it is said: This is rope. Once you have renounced inert (other), Vasudev Sarvam (mere to Girdhar Gopal) remains behind. Ultimately, even "sarvam" goes and only VASUDEV remains.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. Ma kaschid dukh bhag bhavet.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

-------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Sarvottamji, Swamiji has the explicit answer right in here, I reproduce it, his words!"The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately."This is how I understand it. 1)Our homogeneous inner-wordless experience is Consciousness of ONE Existence. In otherwords, as soon as we begin contemplating on "sadhak" and "sadhya", they both appear to us as respective consciounsess only, in our wordless experience, same as ONE Existence. Now when we answer, "sadhak real or unreal or both?" we need to formulate this experience in words, so we say Sadhak, Sadhya and Sadhan and identify "sadhak-consciousness" as our "body-mind-me", "Sadhaya-consciousness" as "God" and "sadhan-consciousness" as "means" and think they are separate. But as Swamiji says sadhak is sadhaya and sadhan at the same time as ONE ISness, not that sadhak will achieve Sadhaya through sadhan in time. Sadhak is relative to sadhya, sadhan, and not reality, just as all names are! But these very names are ONE Existence-God and as such are real!We can also say Sadhak and Sadhya are ONE Sat, but when taken separate they both individually are asat-non-existent in our Consciousness which is only REAL!2) The "other" is also same as sadhak, a concept, whose reality is Existence-God-Consciousness. E. G. All such apparent "others" are like waves in the Ocean of ONE Existence. As individual waves we are appearances, as Ocean we are REAL!PS: Actually I use BEING for Absolute Existence which is timeless-spaceless and always IS, whereas 'existence' is for an individual object, such as body, tree, dog etc which are perceived in space-time-thought and therefore, temporary. These objects as a whole has ONE Being, because tree as "tree" is born and dies but the same tree as 5 elements(panch mahabhutas) remains. Subsequently these 5 elements also are ONE CONSCIOUSNESS!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in allappearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. TripurRahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, soundsemerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, myLord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence somany times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)

Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there isneither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world ismerely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent andthe world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS(Existent) – "naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah" (Gita 2:16)."Not" is naturally non-existent and "is" is naturally existent. That IS(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is nonexistent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.

From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay withoutthe End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot staywithout the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason isthat the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can benothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we areaspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant isonly he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neitheraction, nor object.

What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind ofan end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What achild that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live withoutthe child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the poweror strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in theocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak andthe End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there isaffinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. Butwhen affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain anaspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).

(to be continued)

From "Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 107 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan keLiye" in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.Ram Ram-----------------------

-------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 28, 2009

Shree HariRam Ram

In the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that "Sadhak is he who doesnot accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa)." Thisis what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request tothe Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -

1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak realand unreal both ?

2) To that which is referred as the "other" is that "other" real or unreal orboth?

With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

Is individual (anything else as well) real or unreal or both?I was moving along a beautiful road with lush trees on the sides. Each tree wasa treat as such with their magnificent flowers, radiant green leaves and supplefruits oozing the essence of life all around. The chirping birds and the dancingsquirrels stood witness to the essence as such. I was immersed in immense joy ofbeing part of the life essence. Suddenly, bells rang within and I startedwondering whether these images processed in my mind real or unreal?!I noted a particularly wonderful tree and imprinted its image in my mind forexamination. But as I moved along, the very existence of that particular treestarted becoming distant. Soon, I had to bring back my memories to prove theexistence of the tree to myself. As I relentlessly continued to work with theimages from my memory, the images started becoming blurr and distorted, I couldnotice.After all, the images I coveted so much could not prove any reality regardingthe tree as such since they had to be borrowed again and again into activememory to prove their own existence, let alone the existence of that tree. Theunreality of the images gathered within started becoming more and more certainas and when I chewed upon the same just like the taste of any delicacy wouldvanish as the source for the tatse slips into the stomach. The very processstarted nurturing boredom, as any delicacy would generate aversion onover-indulgence, as I brought in more and more images for observation making thevery images distort under the fatigue. The tree was pushed into the oblivion ofan imagination soon.Can there be any effect on the tree just because a bunch of images of the treewere trapped within my memory? I wondered … I moved back to confirm it. It is,in fact, true that the tree seem to have no affinity toward my imaginations onits magnificent presence. In fact, as I was seeing the tree, nothing could provethat the tree responded to what pictures I am taking regarding its looks andattractions. I started wondering within ... how am I sure that I am seeing thetree in its complete reality? How can I trust my senses as I know of theirlimitations very well? How can I conclude that there are no signals thattranscend my senses altogether?? How can I certify what I am seeing as "thereal" when so many uncertainties and doubts loom around??? All thoughtsconverged to say that I CANNOT see the tree in its reality judging the thoughtsto be unreal.And, yet, how can what I am seeing be unreal? Whatever I am seeing is what itis. It may stay in the observation only for a while. Yet, how can I say that thevery image is unreal and momentary just because my observation chamber loosesits sight? Just because my body moved away from the tree's existential reach,did the tree cease to exist?? Then, how can these thoughts become non-existentaltogether just because my attention moved away from them???Then how can anything be unreal at all? Even the notion of unreality has to bereal because of its very appearance in one's perception! The reality can neverbe attested in its completeness … but, yet, nothing unreal can ever exist at allby its own definition. Everything that is perceived, experienced, thought of,acted upon, etc. has to be glimpses of The Reality alone. Anything else cannoteven be conceived by any existence as the very existence is an impossibilitywithout The Reality. The Reality is CERTAIN ... even the reality of the notionsof potential unreality!Suddenly it dawned on me how stupid I had been … the notion of unreality hadsnatched away all the serene wonder I had been savoring all along … I had noteven noticed the beauty of the essence of life oozing from all around all alongmy brooding! I was not actually savoring even the tree of my legendaryimagination even though I was thinking about the same and even when I wasobserving the same!! I was not savoring the fountain of the same essence withinme anymore!!! I was just tossed around by the notions of reality and unrealitythat I harbored within just like ball in the football field.Neither an isolated thought of experience nor an isolated object of existencecan ever be possible. The very attempt of seprating the two pushes us to theoblivion of uncertainty and unreality. No effort to separate them can ever splitthem apart. The very oblivion of unacceptance remains real as far as it ispursued! THE REALITY remains constant no matter what one pursues - real orunreal, Asti or Nasti ... THE REAL is the real in everything including thenothing, in the knowns as well as the unknowns, in the existence as well as thenon-existence ... one who corelates the experience within and existence aroundattains the union of the real and unreal in oneself transcending all thenotional polarities ...Naasato vidyate bhaavao naabhaavo vidyate satah |Ubhayorapi drashontavyastvanayostattvadarshibhih ||I paused … I stopped as I moved along, dancing along with the joy of life aroundand within … Yes, THE REAL is certainly real … one who submits to IT realizesthe truth of being THAT as such …Asteetyevopalbdhavyah tattvabhavena chobhayoh |Asteetyevopalabdhasya tattvabhaavah praseedati ||Respects.Naga Narayana

---------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Water below minus 5 degree becomes solid. Same above 100 degree evaporates raises above earth and mixes with space. In between is water sadana practicer with fickle mind. In doing and sometimes NOT doing sadana stage he is solid not connecting to air. But melts his heart for God evoparates and merges with God. In all stages it is water, in solid, substance and gasious form.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Sadhak is always "unmanifest" ! Sadhak is never "sharira" (body). Hence sadhak is always SAT !! Sadhak is a "bhava sharira" ( an inner sentiment) .

"Other" can only be "unreal"( Asat) . Hence first you are taught to renounce "other" (inert) and once you have grasped that, you are taught "Vasudev Sarvam". In fact, only to an ignorant, it is said: This is not snake, this is rope. Hence : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi ( Only God is mine, no other is mine) . To a knowledeable, it is said: This is rope. Once you have renounced inert (other), Vasudev Sarvam (mere to Girdhar Gopal) remains behind. Ultimately, even "sarvam" goes and only VASUDEV remains.

Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. Ma kaschid dukh bhag bhavet.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Sarvottamji, Swamiji has the explicit answer right in here, I reproduce it, his words!"The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately."This is how I understand it. 1)Our homogeneous inner-wordless experience is Consciousness of ONE Existence. In otherwords, as soon as we begin contemplating on "sadhak" and "sadhya", they both appear to us as respective consciounsess only, in our wordless experience, same as ONE Existence. Now when we answer, "sadhak real or unreal or both?" we need to formulate this experience in words, so we say Sadhak, Sadhya and Sadhan and identify "sadhak-consciousness" as our "body-mind-me", "Sadhaya-consciousness" as "God" and "sadhan-consciousness" as "means" and think they are separate. But as Swamiji says sadhak is sadhaya and sadhan at the same time as ONE ISness, not that sadhak will achieve Sadhaya through sadhan in time. Sadhak is relative to sadhya, sadhan, and not reality, just as all names are! But these very names are ONE Existence-God and as such are real!We can also say Sadhak and Sadhya are ONE Sat, but when taken separate they both individually are asat-non-existent in our Consciousness which is only REAL!2) The "other" is also same as sadhak, a concept, whose reality is Existence-God-Consciousness. E. G. All such apparent "others" are like waves in the Ocean of ONE Existence. As individual waves we are appearances, as Ocean we are REAL!PS: Actually I use BEING for Absolute Existence which is timeless-spaceless and always IS, whereas 'existence' is for an individual object, such as body, tree, dog etc which are perceived in space-time-thought and therefore, temporary. These objects as a whole has ONE Being, because tree as "tree" is born and dies but the same tree as 5 elements(panch mahabhutas) remains. Subsequently these 5 elements also are ONE CONSCIOUSNESS!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in allappearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. TripurRahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, soundsemerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, myLord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence somany times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)

Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there isneither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world ismerely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent andthe world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS(Existent) – "naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah" (Gita 2:16)."Not" is naturally non-existent and "is" is naturally existent. That IS(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is nonexistent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.

From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay withoutthe End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot staywithout the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason isthat the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can benothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we areaspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant isonly he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neitheraction, nor object.

What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind ofan end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What achild that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live withoutthe child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the poweror strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in theocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak andthe End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there isaffinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. Butwhen affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain anaspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).

(to be continued)

From "Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 107 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan keLiye" in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.Ram Ram-----------------------

-------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

May 1, 2009

Shree HariRam Ram

In the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that "Sadhak is he who doesnot accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa)." Thisis what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request tothe Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -

1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak realand unreal both ?

2) To that which is referred as the "other" is that "other" real or unreal orboth?

With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam

---------------------------

NEW POSTING

Sadhak, Saadhya, Saadhan

In multiways, in multi-dimensions, Beautiful loving sadhakas sing the same song of love

" You are the sadhak, you the sadhya, you the saadhan to the Self .....

you, you, you , My Beloved, you... just you, my Love ! "

Saach kahoon sunle re sakhe,

Jin prem kiyo, tin hee Prabh payo

...................................Guru Gobind singh

now, love rises , leaving nari mute

now again, narinder-ness rises,

yearning , seeking and crying for Love . ah !

even though knowing that the sadhaka, saadhya , and the saadhan are you, my Beloved,

You, the Lord of Lords ..........

O Thou, My Love.

Thou art the soundless sound; Thou the Silence surrounding

Thou the Unheard Melody; Ever vibrating in nari's ears.

The sound itself is the light; The Light of Love

That vibrates in Nari's heart; And nari's heart ?

Does it exist , when nari himself does not !

The existing that is Existence

Is your Being; Is your Joy of Being;

Is the Love of yourself; For your own self !

Ah, what can poor nari say !? ! And, how !?? !

Thou art the thief; That steals nari's voice

Thou the robber; That robs nari' s being

Leaving him impotent; Leaving him mute

O Krishna, Om Krishna

What more to say, and how ?!!?

AUM

narinder bhandari

-----------

Dear sadaks,With regard to sri Naga Narayana posting. All that is in Prakurthi is created for all living beings. The way we treat it by sight (looks). The same tree may just be a tree for other man who does not even remember after few minutes. Everything on earth that is seen has to be seen as it appears. Contemplating on it leads to Maya and attachment to mind. That moment enjoy and forget. Sri Rama along with Mother Seetha, while in boat driven by Gugan, took water from that river and splashed on mother Seetha and both laughed. Sri Rama tells about beauty of river. But never HE spoke about it again anywhere. HE left it then and there. But we cling on to prakurthi.There was a very great saint and one of the 12 vaishnavite Alwars, Peria Alwar (means No 1 among 12). He was amidst very green mountain range. On seeing it, he sang a song in Tamil known to many (Pachamaa Malai Pol Meeni)that is to say this beautiful range of mountains greenery is so pleasing to eyes like that of YOUR (God) body. He once saw wide spread of flower garden of yellow daffodils. He sang that colour is like mother Lakshmi dress. The same saint also sang saying God is Ananthan (Boundless of time or anything). We all know that God is formless and can take any form. But saints also knows this. But to divert their sight (looking power) only towards God they tame the mind so. Saints dedicated all sense organs in the same manner. Sant Tukaram in his Abang sings that this whole beauty of flowers, chill air, mountain greenary etc are YOUR (God) creation of wonder.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

=================================

PRIOR POSTING

Is individual (anything else as well) real or unreal or both?

I was moving along a beautiful road with lush trees on the sides. Each tree wasa treat as such with their magnificent flowers, radiant green leaves and supplefruits oozing the essence of life all around. The chirping birds and the dancingsquirrels stood witness to the essence as such. I was immersed in immense joy ofbeing part of the life essence. Suddenly, bells rang within and I startedwondering whether these images processed in my mind real or unreal?!

I noted a particularly wonderful tree and imprinted its image in my mind forexamination. But as I moved along, the very existence of that particular treestarted becoming distant. Soon, I had to bring back my memories to prove theexistence of the tree to myself. As I relentlessly continued to work with theimages from my memory, the images started becoming blurr and distorted, I couldnotice.

After all, the images I coveted so much could not prove any reality regardingthe tree as such since they had to be borrowed again and again into activememory to prove their own existence, let alone the existence of that tree. Theunreality of the images gathered within started becoming more and more certainas and when I chewed upon the same just like the taste of any delicacy wouldvanish as the source for the tatse slips into the stomach. The very processstarted nurturing boredom, as any delicacy would generate aversion onover-indulgence, as I brought in more and more images for observation making thevery images distort under the fatigue. The tree was pushed into the oblivion ofan imagination soon.

Can there be any effect on the tree just because a bunch of images of the treewere trapped within my memory? I wondered … I moved back to confirm it. It is,in fact, true that the tree seem to have no affinity toward my imaginations onits magnificent presence. In fact, as I was seeing the tree, nothing could provethat the tree responded to what pictures I am taking regarding its looks andattractions. I started wondering within ... how am I sure that I am seeing thetree in its complete reality? How can I trust my senses as I know of theirlimitations very well? How can I conclude that there are no signals thattranscend my senses altogether?? How can I certify what I am seeing as "thereal" when so many uncertainties and doubts loom around??? All thoughtsconverged to say that I CANNOT see the tree in its reality judging the thoughtsto be unreal.

And, yet, how can what I am seeing be unreal? Whatever I am seeing is what itis. It may stay in the observation only for a while. Yet, how can I say that thevery image is unreal and momentary just because my observation chamber loosesits sight? Just because my body moved away from the tree's existential reach,did the tree cease to exist?? Then, how can these thoughts become non-existentaltogether just because my attention moved away from them???

Then how can anything be unreal at all? Even the notion of unreality has to bereal because of its very appearance in one's perception! The reality can neverbe attested in its completeness … but, yet, nothing unreal can ever exist at allby its own definition. Everything that is perceived, experienced, thought of,acted upon, etc. has to be glimpses of The Reality alone. Anything else cannoteven be conceived by any existence as the very existence is an impossibilitywithout The Reality. The Reality is CERTAIN ... even the reality of the notionsof potential unreality!

Suddenly it dawned on me how stupid I had been … the notion of unreality hadsnatched away all the serene wonder I had been savoring all along … I had noteven noticed the beauty of the essence of life oozing from all around all alongmy brooding! I was not actually savoring even the tree of my legendaryimagination even though I was thinking about the same and even when I wasobserving the same!! I was not savoring the fountain of the same essence withinme anymore!!! I was just tossed around by the notions of reality and unrealitythat I harbored within just like ball in the football field.

Neither an isolated thought of experience nor an isolated object of existencecan ever be possible. The very attempt of seprating the two pushes us to theoblivion of uncertainty and unreality. No effort to separate them can ever splitthem apart. The very oblivion of unacceptance remains real as far as it ispursued! THE REALITY remains constant no matter what one pursues - real orunreal, Asti or Nasti ... THE REAL is the real in everything including thenothing, in the knowns as well as the unknowns, in the existence as well as thenon-existence ... one who corelates the experience within and existence aroundattains the union of the real and unreal in oneself transcending all thenotional polarities ...

Naasato vidyate bhaavao naabhaavo vidyate satah |Ubhayorapi drashontavyastvanayostattvadarshibhih ||

I paused … I stopped as I moved along, dancing along with the joy of life aroundand within … Yes, THE REAL is certainly real … one who submits to IT realizesthe truth of being THAT as such …

Asteetyevopalbdhavyah tattvabhavena chobhayoh |Asteetyevopalabdhasya tattvabhaavah praseedati ||

Respects.

Naga Narayana

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Dear Sadaks,Water below minus 5 degree becomes solid. Same above 100 degree evaporates raises above earth and mixes with space. In between is water sadana practicer with fickle mind. In doing and sometimes NOT doing sadana stage he is solid not connecting to air. But melts his heart for God evoparates and merges with God. In all stages it is water, in solid, substance and gasious form.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Sadhak is always "unmanifest" ! Sadhak is never "sharira" (body). Hence sadhak is always SAT !! Sadhak is a "bhava sharira" ( an inner sentiment) .

"Other" can only be "unreal"( Asat) . Hence first you are taught to renounce "other" (inert) and once you have grasped that, you are taught "Vasudev Sarvam". In fact, only to an ignorant, it is said: This is not snake, this is rope. Hence : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi ( Only God is mine, no other is mine) . To a knowledeable, it is said: This is rope. Once you have renounced inert (other), Vasudev Sarvam (mere to Girdhar Gopal) remains behind. Ultimately, even "sarvam" goes and only VASUDEV remains.

Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. Ma kaschid dukh bhag bhavet.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Sarvottamji, Swamiji has the explicit answer right in here, I reproduce it, his words!"The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately."This is how I understand it. 1)Our homogeneous inner-wordless experience is Consciousness of ONE Existence. In otherwords, as soon as we begin contemplating on "sadhak" and "sadhya", they both appear to us as respective consciounsess only, in our wordless experience, same as ONE Existence. Now when we answer, "sadhak real or unreal or both?" we need to formulate this experience in words, so we say Sadhak, Sadhya and Sadhan and identify "sadhak-consciousness" as our "body-mind-me", "Sadhaya-consciousness" as "God" and "sadhan-consciousness" as "means" and think they are separate. But as Swamiji says sadhak is sadhaya and sadhan at the same time as ONE ISness, not that sadhak will achieve Sadhaya through sadhan in time. Sadhak is relative to sadhya, sadhan, and not reality, just as all names are! But these very names are ONE Existence-God and as such are real!We can also say Sadhak and Sadhya are ONE Sat, but when taken separate they both individually are asat-non-existent in our Consciousness which is only REAL!2) The "other" is also same as sadhak, a concept, whose reality is Existence-God-Consciousness. E. G. All such apparent "others" are like waves in the Ocean of ONE Existence. As individual waves we are appearances, as Ocean we are REAL!PS: Actually I use BEING for Absolute Existence which is timeless-spaceless and always IS, whereas 'existence' is for an individual object, such as body, tree, dog etc which are perceived in space-time-thought and therefore, temporary. These objects as a whole has ONE Being, because tree as "tree" is born and dies but the same tree as 5 elements(panch mahabhutas) remains. Subsequently these 5 elements also are ONE CONSCIOUSNESS!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in allappearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. TripurRahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, soundsemerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, myLord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence somany times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------:Shree Hari:Ram Ram

Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)

Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there isneither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world ismerely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent andthe world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS(Existent) – "naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah" (Gita 2:16)."Not" is naturally non-existent and "is" is naturally existent. That IS(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is nonexistent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.

From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay withoutthe End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot staywithout the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason isthat the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can benothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we areaspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant isonly he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neitheraction, nor object.

What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind ofan end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What achild that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live withoutthe child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the poweror strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in theocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak andthe End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there isaffinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. Butwhen affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain anaspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).

(to be continued)

From "Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 107 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan keLiye" in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.Ram Ram-----------------------

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MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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May 27, 2009

Shree HariRam RamIn the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that "Sadhak is he who doesnot accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa)." Thisis what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request tothe Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak realand unreal both ?2) To that which is referred as the "other" is that "other" real or unreal orboth?With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam---------------------------NEW POSTINGNamaste, Dear Ones!I

am deeply touched by the depths of expressions conveying

the Truth by Naga Narayanji and Narinder Bhandariji in their own poetic

ways! To me, they are coming from living what they feel deeply, an

outpouring, fresh as every breath is! I am grateful to the forum!Swamiji

spoke of the Supreme Truth, Moderators made possible for us to receive

such powerful English translation and got us going! Grace is showering

upon us!Let us recognize and appreciate such depths of expressions!There is only ONE Reality of all our experiences, call them real or unreal or whatever!Experiences

are perceived objects in the Ocean of Supreme Consciousness(Sat-Chit),

just as waves are in the Ocean. As separate waves, they may be called

unreal, but the same waves as Ocean are Real, and as such are ONE,

appearing as many. All

experiences are subjective, personal and therefore, can be called real, unreal, sentient, insentient, fact, false or whatever one wants to call. HOWEVER, SUBJECTIVITY

ITSELF IS THE IMPERSONAL REALITY of all such personal experiences.

Reality, Subjectivity, Awareness, Consciousness, Existence, God,

Ishwara, Bhagwaan, are all ONE and the same Anubhutirupah-Experiencing! Implications in life?"I am" is THAT REALITY, THAT Ocean, comprising all waves-seaparate experiences!"I am" even when they-waves are not! I can never be "not", Manifest or Unmanifest,Reality of Unreal! Know that you are the Ocean, O' wave! Act as Ocean, Love. serve, and wake "other" waves, they are "you"!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt ------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram If Sadhak is a bhakt (devotee of Bhagavaan), there is ONLY real (SAT). If everything is Paramatma, then how can there be anything unreal (asat)?

"Yen sarvamidam tatam" (Gita 2:17, 8:22, 18:46)

"Matah parataran naayatkinchidastik" (Gita 7:7)

"Vasudeva Sarvam" (Gita 7:19)

"Mayaa tatmidam sarvam jagadvyaktmoortinaa." (Gita 9:4)

"Sadasacchahamrjun" (Gita 9:19)

"Ahamaadisch madhyam che bhutaanaamant eva che." (Gita 10:20)

"Sargaanaam maadirantasch madhyam chaivaahamrjun" Gita 10:32)

"Na tadastit vinaa yatsyaanmayaa bhootam charaacharam." (Gita 10:39)

"Bahirantascha bhootaanaamcharam charameva che." (Gita 13:15).Swamiji gave great importance to Vasudeva Sarvam and finally there is ONLY Vasudeva. The point is it is all SAT (Real) and SAT only. The unreal is ever changing and therefore non-existent, while the real is unchanging and ever-existent. Both the real and the unreal are manifestation of Paramatma alone. "Sadasacchahamrjun" (Gita 9:19). Please read the details of Gita 9:19 in Sadhak Sanjivani carefully. This has also been explained very well in Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu page 432 that "All" (Sarvam) in "Vasudeva Sarvam" is ever changing and therefore un-real (asat). When the unreal is non-existent, then only the real ever remains, and that is "Vasudeva" (only God). Meera Das, Ram Ram --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGSadhak, Saadhya, SaadhanIn multiways, in multi-dimensions, Beautiful loving sadhakas sing the same song of love" You are the sadhak, you the sadhya, you the saadhan to the Self .....you, you, you , My Beloved, you... just you, my Love ! "Saach kahoon sunle re sakhe,Jin prem kiyo, tin hee Prabh payo..................................Guru Gobind singhnow, love rises , leaving nari mutenow again, narinder-ness rises,yearning , seeking and crying for Love . ah !even though knowing that the sadhaka, saadhya , and the saadhan are you, my Beloved,You, the Lord of Lords ..........O Thou, My Love.Thou art the soundless sound; Thou the Silence surroundingThou the Unheard Melody; Ever vibrating in nari's ears.The sound itself is the light; The Light of LoveThat vibrates in Nari's heart; And nari's heart ?Does it exist , when nari himself does not !The existing that is Existence Is your Being; Is your Joy of Being; Is the Love of yourself; For your own self !Ah, what can poor nari say !? ! And, how !?? !Thou art the thief; That steals nari's voiceThou the robber; That robs nari' s beingLeaving him impotent; Leaving him muteO Krishna, Om KrishnaWhat more to say, and how ?!!?AUMnarinder bhandari-----------Dear sadaks,With regard to sri Naga Narayana posting. All that is in Prakurthi is created for all living beings. The way we treat it by sight (looks). The same tree may just be a tree for other man who does not even remember after few minutes. Everything on earth that is seen has to be seen as it appears. Contemplating on it leads to Maya and attachment to mind. That moment enjoy and forget. Sri Rama along with Mother Seetha, while in boat driven by Gugan, took water from that river and splashed on mother Seetha and both laughed. Sri Rama tells about beauty of river. But never HE spoke about it again anywhere. HE left it then and there. But we cling on to prakurthi.There was a very great saint and one of the 12 vaishnavite Alwars, Peria Alwar (means No 1 among 12). He was amidst very green mountain range. On seeing it, he sang a song in Tamil known to many (Pachamaa Malai Pol Meeni)that is to say this beautiful range of mountains greenery is so pleasing to eyes like that of YOUR (God) body. He once saw wide spread of flower garden of yellow daffodils. He sang that colour is like mother Lakshmi dress. The same saint also sang saying God is Ananthan (Boundless of time or anything). We all know that God is formless and can take any form. But saints also knows this. But to divert their sight (looking power) only towards God they tame the mind so. Saints dedicated all sense organs in the same manner. Sant Tukaram in his Abang sings that this whole beauty of flowers, chill air, mountain greenary etc are YOUR (God) creation of wonder.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan=================================PRIOR POSTINGIs individual (anything else as well) real or unreal or both?I was moving along a beautiful road with lush trees on the sides. Each tree wasa treat as such with their magnificent flowers, radiant green leaves and supplefruits oozing the essence of life all around. The chirping birds and the dancingsquirrels stood witness to the essence as such. I was immersed in immense joy ofbeing part of the life essence. Suddenly, bells rang within and I startedwondering whether these images processed in my mind real or unreal?!I noted a particularly wonderful tree and imprinted its image in my mind forexamination. But as I moved along, the very existence of that particular treestarted becoming distant. Soon, I had to bring back my memories to prove theexistence of the tree to myself. As I relentlessly continued to work with theimages from my memory, the images started becoming blurr and distorted, I couldnotice.After all, the images I coveted so much could not prove any reality regardingthe tree as such since they had to be borrowed again and again into activememory to prove their own existence, let alone the existence of that tree. Theunreality of the images gathered within started becoming more and more certainas and when I chewed upon the same just like the taste of any delicacy wouldvanish as the source for the tatse slips into the stomach. The very processstarted nurturing boredom, as any delicacy would generate aversion onover-indulgence, as I brought in more and more images for observation making thevery images distort under the fatigue. The tree was pushed into the oblivion ofan imagination soon.Can there be any effect on the tree just because a bunch of images of the treewere trapped within my memory? I wondered ï¿½ I moved back to confirm it. It is,in fact, true that the tree seem to have no affinity toward my imaginations onits magnificent presence. In fact, as I was seeing the tree, nothing could provethat the tree responded to what pictures I am taking regarding its looks andattractions. I started wondering within ... how am I sure that I am seeing thetree in its complete reality? How can I trust my senses as I know of theirlimitations very well? How can I conclude that there are no signals thattranscend my senses altogether?? How can I certify what I am seeing as "thereal" when so many uncertainties and doubts loom around??? All thoughtsconverged to say that I CANNOT see the tree in its reality judging the thoughtsto be unreal.And, yet, how can what I am seeing be unreal? Whatever I am seeing is what itis. It may stay in the observation only for a while. Yet, how can I say that thevery image is unreal and momentary just because my observation chamber loosesits sight? Just because my body moved away from the tree's existential reach,did the tree cease to exist?? Then, how can these thoughts become non-existentaltogether just because my attention moved away from them???Then how can anything be unreal at all? Even the notion of unreality has to bereal because of its very appearance in one's perception! The reality can neverbe attested in its completeness ï¿½ but, yet, nothing unreal can ever exist at allby its own definition. Everything that is perceived, experienced, thought of,acted upon, etc. has to be glimpses of The Reality alone. Anything else cannoteven be conceived by any existence as the very existence is an impossibilitywithout The Reality. The Reality is CERTAIN ... even the reality of the notionsof potential unreality!Suddenly it dawned on me how stupid I had been ï¿½ the notion of unreality hadsnatched away all the serene wonder I had been savoring all along ï¿½ I had noteven noticed the beauty of the essence of life oozing from all around all alongmy brooding! I was not actually savoring even the tree of my legendaryimagination even though I was thinking about the same and even when I wasobserving the same!! I was not savoring the fountain of the same essence withinme anymore!!! I was just tossed around by the notions of reality and unrealitythat I harbored within just like ball in the football field.Neither an isolated thought of experience nor an isolated object of existencecan ever be possible. The very attempt of seprating the two pushes us to theoblivion of uncertainty and unreality. No effort to separate them can ever splitthem apart. The very oblivion of unacceptance remains real as far as it ispursued! THE REALITY remains constant no matter what one pursues - real orunreal, Asti or Nasti ... THE REAL is the real in everything including thenothing, in the knowns as well as the unknowns, in the existence as well as thenon-existence ... one who corelates the experience within and existence aroundattains the union of the real and unreal in oneself transcending all thenotional polarities ...Naasato vidyate bhaavao naabhaavo vidyate satah |Ubhayorapi drashontavyastvanayostattvadarshibhih ||I paused ï¿½ I stopped as I moved along, dancing along with the joy of life aroundand within ï¿½ Yes, THE REAL is certainly real ï¿½ one who submits to IT realizesthe truth of being THAT as such ï¿½Asteetyevopalbdhavyah tattvabhavena chobhayoh |Asteetyevopalabdhasya tattvabhaavah praseedati ||Respects.Naga Narayana---------------------------Dear Sadaks,Water below minus 5 degree becomes solid. Same above 100 degree evaporates raises above earth and mixes with space. In between is water sadana practicer with fickle mind. In doing and sometimes NOT doing sadana stage he is solid not connecting to air. But melts his heart for God evoparates and merges with God. In all stages it is water, in solid, substance and gasious form.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan ----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmSadhak is always "unmanifest" ! Sadhak is never "sharira" (body). Hence sadhak is always SAT !! Sadhak is a "bhava sharira" ( an inner sentiment) ."Other" can only be "unreal"( Asat) . Hence first you are taught to renounce "other" (inert) and once you have grasped that, you are taught "Vasudev Sarvam". In fact, only to an ignorant, it is said: This is not snake, this is rope. Hence : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi ( Only God is mine, no other is mine) . To a knowledeable, it is said: This is rope. Once you have renounced inert (other), Vasudev Sarvam (mere to Girdhar Gopal) remains behind. Ultimately, even "sarvam" goes and only VASUDEV remains.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. Ma kaschid dukh bhag bhavet.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Sarvottamji, Swamiji has the explicit answer right in here, I reproduce it, his words!"The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately."This is how I understand it.1)Our homogeneous inner-wordless experience is Consciousness of ONE Existence.In otherwords, as soon as we begin contemplating on "sadhak" and "sadhya", they both appear to us as respective consciounsess only, in our wordless experience, same as ONE Existence.Now when we answer, "sadhak real or unreal or both?" we need to formulate this experience in words, so we say Sadhak, Sadhya and Sadhan and identify "sadhak-consciousness" as our "body-mind-me", "Sadhaya-consciousness" as "God" and "sadhan-consciousness" as "means" and think they are separate. But as Swamiji says sadhak is sadhaya and sadhan at the same time as ONE ISness, not that sadhak will achieve Sadhaya through sadhan in time. Sadhak is relative to sadhya, sadhan, and not reality, just as all names are! But these very names are ONE Existence-God and as such are real!We can also say Sadhak and Sadhya are ONE Sat, but when taken separate they both individually are asat-non-existent in our Consciousness which is only REAL!2) The "other" is also same as sadhak, a concept, whose reality is Existence-God-Consciousness. E. G. All such apparent "others" are like waves in the Ocean of ONE Existence. As individual waves we are appearances, as Ocean we are REAL!PS: Actually I use BEING for Absolute Existence which is timeless-spaceless and always IS, whereas 'existence' is for an individual object, such as body, tree, dog etc which are perceived in space-time-thought and therefore, temporary. These objects as a whole has ONE Being, because tree as "tree" is born and dies but the same tree as 5 elements(panch mahabhutas) remains. Subsequently these 5 elements also are ONE CONSCIOUSNESS!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt---------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in allappearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. TripurRahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, soundsemerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, myLord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence somany times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt---------------------------:Shree Hari:Ram RamAspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there isneither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world ismerely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent andthe world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS(Existent) ï¿½ "naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah" (Gita 2:16)."Not" is naturally non-existent and "is" is naturally existent. That IS(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is nonexistent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay withoutthe End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot staywithout the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God)and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason isthat the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can benothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we areaspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant isonly he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neitheraction, nor object.What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind ofan end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What achild that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live withoutthe child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the poweror strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in theocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak andthe End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there isaffinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. Butwhen affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain anaspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).(to be continued)From "Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 107 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan keLiye" in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.Ram Ram------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

May 28, 2009

Shree HariRam RamIn the Sadhaka message few days back, it was said that "Sadhak is he who doesnot accept the existence or support (aashrye) of any one other than the Saadhya(End, Paramatma); neither of objects (padaarth) nor of action (kriyaa)." Thisis what Swamiji has revealed, the absolute truth. It is my sincere request tothe Sadhaks of this group to clarify two doubts that I have -1) Is Sadhak sat (real, eternal) or asat (unreal, perishable) or is sadhak realand unreal both ?2) To that which is referred as the "other" is that "other" real or unreal orboth?With sincere thanks, kacchaa Sadhak Sarvottam---------------------------NEW POSTINGJai Shree Krishna

Message of Miraji Dass is indeed , precise, perfect and direct.

Hats off to such followers and devotees of Respected Swamiji.

Absolutely perfect.You see..... you dont strengthen "Mere to Girdhar

Gopal" unless you negate with "Doosaro na koi". Doosaro na koi is the

yardstick of "Mere to Girdhar Gopal". Now read " Doosaro na koi" as "

No other exists" ! With that it goes and remains "Mere to Girdhar

Gopal". Why Girdhar Gopal is yours ? Because you are PART OF HIM. You

are Him only as a pure Self. Once you are Him only " Mere to" also

goes. What remains difference between "ME" and "MINE" ? Hence "MINE" (

Mere to) also goes. Now only GIRDHAR GOPAL remains. That is what

removal of SARVAM (Doosara) from VASUDEV means. Hence VASUDEV ONLY

remains in the end. What a devotee and realised soul was MIRA BAAI who

gave to the world the key in just one line: Mere to Girdhar Gopal,

Doosaro na Koi.

Swami Rupesh Kumar-----------------------Sadhak is Paramatma, Iswar ansh jeev abinasi, sat shetan ghan aanand rashi.

mamevasho jeevloke jeev bhoot sanatan.

When there is only one how come we talk of other. its only EKO AHAM BAHUSYAM.

BHAGWAN SWAYAM HI LILA KE LIYE EK SE ANEK HUYE HAIN.

EKAKI NA RAMATE.

KALPNA Dixit -------------------Sarvottam jee,

Let your heart guide you to the answers true ...........

Be yourself...Love yourself......Love is the Way ...........................

Love,.....When it blossoms in the Heart.....Showers its own wisdom on the Mind

And Here and Now... The Mind knows !!

Yes, Love itself is wisdom......Is the teacher willing

To share the joy of Being.... With all, who are willing!!

Love is Love, just Love.....The quality of Love

Is not the fire of Desire..... It is the cooling peacefulness

Of the ambrosia divine......Bliss it is .....And yet,

An ache.....A yearning....A desire

To be just the Self....One's own self , and Yourself .

And

Krishna it is that is Love

Krishna is Love, and Love Krishna

Krishna alone it is , and all is his Play ……………………………..AUM

narinder bhandari-----------------------------The only reality about us is our soul which we cannot even see. It is the only thing about us which was always present and will never end.The other referred to is the Paramatma which is also real and into which our souls shall merge ultimately.Hari Shanker Deo-------------Radhey ! Radhey!!

What kind of lessons sadhaks can draw by knowing that neither real

nor unreal exists? It is purely academic. When Gita says- REAL EXISTS (

Nabhavo vidyate Satah) , what is the problem in our also saying , yes ,

real exists ? Are we above Gita? Paragraphs upon paragraphs are

written on the subject whether real or unreal both are existing or not

existing !! And only THAT ! Nothing beyond THAT ! Ever ! All Questions-

reply Consciousness ! If inert does not exist, then sentient also does

not exist !! What is the problem in believing that REAL exists and

Unreal doesnot exist... when Gitaji says so ?? Typical is human mind !

Unbelievable. BABA ! Dont apply mind at all. Dont fall within the ambit

of BG 2:53 ! Listen to advice. Stop this song of Consciousness,

consciousness, waves, ocean...! It does not help. It can also have

stumbling blockade to further progresss even by inert mind itself. Many

have been seen going berserk by these weighty terms. Go

simple, Think simple.Talk simple. Write Simple. Our Raja Gurudasaniji

is continuously telling... stop this !Again Consciousness ! Why

deliberations should blog on one matter only? That REAL is everything

or that Real is Consciousness or that real is God or that real is THAT

.... why so much of energy is being wasted on this? What is the

substance? As Miraji Dass so rightly and precisely stated ... VASUDEV !

It can be stated in one line. A thesis is being written on the same

with no end or no conclusion or no relevance. It is very clear from

Gita that Vasudev is beyond mind/intellect ( 7:4/5) , a part of PARA

prakruti... then why these pages upon pages are being written on

consciousness, subjectivity, objectivity ? Is there no other topic to

reflect upon? Baba ! It is well known. Now take at least one step

further. Consciousness does not solve any problems. In Gita the word

"consciousness' has been referred only once by Lord Krishna in

13: 6 and that too with reference to life power. Enough. That there is

only one. That there is only one. So What? How does that address every

Question on this earth? How it is to be utilised by Sadhaks? Where is

application of mind/intellect on that? Where are discussions on the

subtle topics? Maddening !

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji--Sarvottam jee,

follow your own heart

.......................what your heart 'feels' is true for you .....at

this point of time( NOW). Let your own Heart be your guide.........do

not doubt its wisdom ................. follow your own heart (in

action ) ....................... too much has been written, too

much read , more and more answers do not add to the Joy of wisdom that

drops all the questions. Living your Life, in action, as your heart

dictates ( not the Mind....note ) is the Way.Sooner than later, you

will keep entering more and more into the domain of love. And,Love is

God.

Now,shut your eyes,and see the Truth of

what has been said...... feel the Truth...... be your own Guru

..........................aapo deepo bhava ...........................

no doubt, though , being in the presence of

a realised seer is a great help in the Mind dying at the feet of the

Lord...... and the moment that death happens, No-Mind arises, and all

questions drop. What ever is needed as knowledge in the Moment Now,is

made available to you by Existence.....

Karma,Bhakti, Gyana,Satsanga, are only for that purpose.......death of Mind.......

when breath stops ,death of the body

when Mind stops ( Thoughts stop...silence happens), death of the Mind.... death of ego.......

No Mind is the same mind now enlightened by

the deep understanding that the wave is only the expression of the

Ocean. The Wave has no separate existence. Whereas the wave earlier

felt that separation all the time,and with that feeling of duality

,lived in fear and pain,and doubt...... ..............now it lives in Joy of knowing itself....... the wave is not ; the Ocean IS.

Meditation is the way ......................

and.....pratap bhatt jee, you do know narinder's answer to your love and blessings .............

.................undeserving narinder can never ever know how it happens ! But,happen it does. GRACE.

Grace ............................Gift of Krishna appearing as the

Guru and the FAITH in the Guru, and then , through saints and sages

like Ramanna,Nisargadatta, Swami Ramsukhdas jee ,and all the budhhas of yore ..................

THANK YOU BELOVED ! Thank you Beloved

For the beautiful Thoughts… Thoughts that lead to the

Deep Silence of Being....Silence of Being that You Yourself are …….

Silence , the Imperishable Seed …… That erupts,

Grows, Blossoms ... Flowers…

And ... The Fruit of which ….. Is

Wonderous words and Thoughts....

That lead one again...Unto the Silence of Being .

Thank you Beloved

Thank you Krishna .

AUM

narinder bhandari--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Ones!I am deeply touched by the depths of expressions conveying the Truth by Naga Narayanji and Narinder Bhandariji in their own poetic ways! To me, they are coming from living what they feel deeply, an outpouring, fresh as every breath is! I am grateful to the forum!Swamiji spoke of the Supreme Truth, Moderators made possible for us to receive such powerful English translation and got us going! Grace is showering upon us!Let us recognize and appreciate such depths of expressions!There is only ONE Reality of all our experiences, call them real or unreal or whatever!Experiences are perceived objects in the Ocean of Supreme Consciousness(Sat-Chit), just as waves are in the Ocean. As separate waves, they may be called unreal, but the same waves as Ocean are Real, and as such are ONE, appearing as many.All experiences are subjective, personal and therefore, can be called real, unreal, sentient, insentient, fact, false or whatever one wants to call. HOWEVER, SUBJECTIVITY ITSELF IS THE IMPERSONAL REALITY of all such personal experiences. Reality, Subjectivity, Awareness, Consciousness, Existence, God, Ishwara, Bhagwaan, are all ONE and the same Anubhutirupah-Experiencing! Implications in life?"I am" is THAT REALITY, THAT Ocean, comprising all waves-seaparate experiences!"I am" even when they-waves are not! I can never be "not", Manifest or Unmanifest,Reality of Unreal!Know that you are the Ocean, O' wave! Act as Ocean, Love. serve, and wake "other" waves, they are "you"!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Shree HariRam Ram If Sadhak is a bhakt (devotee of Bhagavaan), there is ONLY real (SAT). If everything is Paramatma, then how can there be anything unreal (asat)? "Yen sarvamidam tatam" (Gita 2:17, 8:22, 18:46)"Matah parataran naayatkinchidastik" (Gita 7:7)"Vasudeva Sarvam" (Gita 7:19)"Mayaa tatmidam sarvam jagadvyaktmoortinaa." (Gita 9:4)"Sadasacchahamrjun" (Gita 9:19)"Ahamaadisch madhyam che bhutaanaamant eva che." (Gita 10:20)"Sargaanaam maadirantasch madhyam chaivaahamrjun" Gita 10:32)"Na tadastit vinaa yatsyaanmayaa bhootam charaacharam." (Gita 10:39)"Bahirantascha bhootaanaamcharam charameva che." (Gita 13:15).Swamiji gave great importance to Vasudeva Sarvam and finally there is ONLY Vasudeva. The point is it is all SAT (Real) and SAT only. The unreal is ever changing and therefore non-existent, while the real is unchanging and ever-existent. Both the real and the unreal are manifestation of Paramatma alone. "Sadasacchahamrjun" (Gita 9:19). Please read the details of Gita 9:19 in Sadhak Sanjivani carefully. This has also been explained very well in Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu page 432 that "All" (Sarvam) in "Vasudeva Sarvam" is ever changing and therefore un-real (asat). When the unreal is non-existent, then only the real ever remains, and that is "Vasudeva" (only God). Meera Das, Ram Ram--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGSadhak, Saadhya, SaadhanIn multiways, in multi-dimensions, Beautiful loving sadhakas sing the same song of love" You are the sadhak, you the sadhya, you the saadhan to the Self .....you, you, you , My Beloved, you... just you, my Love ! "Saach kahoon sunle re sakhe,Jin prem kiyo, tin hee Prabh payo..................................Guru Gobind singhnow, love rises , leaving nari mutenow again, narinder-ness rises,yearning , seeking and crying for Love . ah !even though knowing that the sadhaka, saadhya , and the saadhan are you, my Beloved,You, the Lord of Lords ..........O Thou, My Love.Thou art the soundless sound; Thou the Silence surroundingThou the Unheard Melody; Ever vibrating in nari's ears.The sound itself is the light; The Light of LoveThat vibrates in Nari's heart; And nari's heart ?Does it exist , when nari himself does not !The existing that is Existence Is your Being; Is your Joy of Being; Is the Love of yourself; For your own self !Ah, what can poor nari say !? ! And, how !?? !Thou art the thief; That steals nari's voiceThou the robber; That robs nari' s beingLeaving him impotent; Leaving him muteO Krishna, Om KrishnaWhat more to say, and how ?!!?AUMnarinder bhandari-----------Dear sadaks,With regard to sri Naga Narayana posting. All that is in Prakurthi is created for all living beings. The way we treat it by sight (looks). The same tree may just be a tree for other man who does not even remember after few minutes. Everything on earth that is seen has to be seen as it appears. Contemplating on it leads to Maya and attachment to mind. That moment enjoy and forget. Sri Rama along with Mother Seetha, while in boat driven by Gugan, took water from that river and splashed on mother Seetha and both laughed. Sri Rama tells about beauty of river. But never HE spoke about it again anywhere. HE left it then and there. But we cling on to prakurthi.There was a very great saint and one of the 12 vaishnavite Alwars, Peria Alwar (means No 1 among 12). He was amidst very green mountain range. On seeing it, he sang a song in Tamil known to many (Pachamaa Malai Pol Meeni)that is to say this beautiful range of mountains greenery is so pleasing to eyes like that of YOUR (God) body. He once saw wide spread of flower garden of yellow daffodils. He sang that colour is like mother Lakshmi dress. The same saint also sang saying God is Ananthan (Boundless of time or anything). We all know that God is formless and can take any form. But saints also knows this. But to divert their sight (looking power) only towards God they tame the mind so. Saints dedicated all sense organs in the same manner. Sant Tukaram in his Abang sings that this whole beauty of flowers, chill air, mountain greenary etc are YOUR (God) creation of wonder.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan=================================PRIOR POSTINGIs individual (anything else as well) real or unreal or both?I was moving along a beautiful road with lush trees on the sides. Each tree wasa treat as such with their magnificent flowers, radiant green leaves and supplefruits oozing the essence of life all around. The chirping birds and the dancingsquirrels stood witness to the essence as such. I was immersed in immense joy ofbeing part of the life essence. Suddenly, bells rang within and I startedwondering whether these images processed in my mind real or unreal?!I noted a particularly wonderful tree and imprinted its image in my mind forexamination. But as I moved along, the very existence of that particular treestarted becoming distant. Soon, I had to bring back my memories to prove theexistence of the tree to myself. As I relentlessly continued to work with theimages from my memory, the images started becoming blurr and distorted, I couldnotice.After all, the images I coveted so much could not prove any reality regardingthe tree as such since they had to be borrowed again and again into activememory to prove their own existence, let alone the existence of that tree. Theunreality of the images gathered within started becoming more and more certainas and when I chewed upon the same just like the taste of any delicacy wouldvanish as the source for the tatse slips into the stomach. The very processstarted nurturing boredom, as any delicacy would generate aversion onover-indulgence, as I brought in more and more images for observation making thevery images distort under the fatigue. The tree was pushed into the oblivion ofan imagination soon.Can there be any effect on the tree just because a bunch of images of the treewere trapped within my memory? I wondered ï¿½ I moved back to confirm it. It is,in fact, true that the tree seem to have no affinity toward my imaginations onits magnificent presence. In fact, as I was seeing the tree, nothing could provethat the tree responded to what pictures I am taking regarding its looks andattractions. I started wondering within ... how am I sure that I am seeing thetree in its complete reality? How can I trust my senses as I know of theirlimitations very well? How can I conclude that there are no signals thattranscend my senses altogether?? How can I certify what I am seeing as "thereal" when so many uncertainties and doubts loom around??? All thoughtsconverged to say that I CANNOT see the tree in its reality judging the thoughtsto be unreal.And, yet, how can what I am seeing be unreal? Whatever I am seeing is what itis. It may stay in the observation only for a while. Yet, how can I say that thevery image is unreal and momentary just because my observation chamber loosesits sight? Just because my body moved away from the tree's existential reach,did the tree cease to exist?? Then, how can these thoughts become non-existentaltogether just because my attention moved away from them???Then how can anything be unreal at all? Even the notion of unreality has to bereal because of its very appearance in one's perception! The reality can neverbe attested in its completeness ï¿½ but, yet, nothing unreal can ever exist at allby its own definition. Everything that is perceived, experienced, thought of,acted upon, etc. has to be glimpses of The Reality alone. Anything else cannoteven be conceived by any existence as the very existence is an impossibilitywithout The Reality. The Reality is CERTAIN ... even the reality of the notionsof potential unreality!Suddenly it dawned on me how stupid I had been ï¿½ the notion of unreality hadsnatched away all the serene wonder I had been savoring all along ï¿½ I had noteven noticed the beauty of the essence of life oozing from all around all alongmy brooding! I was not actually savoring even the tree of my legendaryimagination even though I was thinking about the same and even when I wasobserving the same!! I was not savoring the fountain of the same essence withinme anymore!!! I was just tossed around by the notions of reality and unrealitythat I harbored within just like ball in the football field.Neither an isolated thought of experience nor an isolated object of existencecan ever be possible. The very attempt of seprating the two pushes us to theoblivion of uncertainty and unreality. No effort to separate them can ever splitthem apart. The very oblivion of unacceptance remains real as far as it ispursued! THE REALITY remains constant no matter what one pursues - real orunreal, Asti or Nasti ... THE REAL is the real in everything including thenothing, in the knowns as well as the unknowns, in the existence as well as thenon-existence ... one who corelates the experience within and existence aroundattains the union of the real and unreal in oneself transcending all thenotional polarities ...Naasato vidyate bhaavao naabhaavo vidyate satah |Ubhayorapi drashontavyastvanayostattvadarshibhih ||I paused ï¿½ I stopped as I moved along, dancing along with the joy of life aroundand within ï¿½ Yes, THE REAL is certainly real ï¿½ one who submits to IT realizesthe truth of being THAT as such ï¿½Asteetyevopalbdhavyah tattvabhavena chobhayoh |Asteetyevopalabdhasya tattvabhaavah praseedati ||Respects.Naga Narayana---------------------------Dear Sadaks,Water below minus 5 degree becomes solid. Same above 100 degree evaporates raises above earth and mixes with space. In between is water sadana practicer with fickle mind. In doing and sometimes NOT doing sadana stage he is solid not connecting to air. But melts his heart for God evoparates and merges with God. In all stages it is water, in solid, substance and gasious form.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan ----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmSadhak is always "unmanifest" ! Sadhak is never "sharira" (body). Hence sadhak is always SAT !! Sadhak is a "bhava sharira" ( an inner sentiment) ."Other" can only be "unreal"( Asat) . Hence first you are taught to renounce "other" (inert) and once you have grasped that, you are taught "Vasudev Sarvam". In fact, only to an ignorant, it is said: This is not snake, this is rope. Hence : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi ( Only God is mine, no other is mine) . To a knowledeable, it is said: This is rope. Once you have renounced inert (other), Vasudev Sarvam (mere to Girdhar Gopal) remains behind. Ultimately, even "sarvam" goes and only VASUDEV remains.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina. Ma kaschid dukh bhag bhavet.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Sarvottamji, Swamiji has the explicit answer right in here, I reproduce it, his words!"The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God) and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason is that the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can be nothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we are aspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately."This is how I understand it.1)Our homogeneous inner-wordless experience is Consciousness of ONE Existence.In otherwords, as soon as we begin contemplating on "sadhak" and "sadhya", they both appear to us as respective consciounsess only, in our wordless experience, same as ONE Existence.Now when we answer, "sadhak real or unreal or both?" we need to formulate this experience in words, so we say Sadhak, Sadhya and Sadhan and identify "sadhak-consciousness" as our "body-mind-me", "Sadhaya-consciousness" as "God" and "sadhan-consciousness" as "means" and think they are separate. But as Swamiji says sadhak is sadhaya and sadhan at the same time as ONE ISness, not that sadhak will achieve Sadhaya through sadhan in time. Sadhak is relative to sadhya, sadhan, and not reality, just as all names are! But these very names are ONE Existence-God and as such are real!We can also say Sadhak and Sadhya are ONE Sat, but when taken separate they both individually are asat-non-existent in our Consciousness which is only REAL!2) The "other" is also same as sadhak, a concept, whose reality is Existence-God-Consciousness. E. G. All such apparent "others" are like waves in the Ocean of ONE Existence. As individual waves we are appearances, as Ocean we are REAL!PS: Actually I use BEING for Absolute Existence which is timeless-spaceless and always IS, whereas 'existence' is for an individual object, such as body, tree, dog etc which are perceived in space-time-thought and therefore, temporary. These objects as a whole has ONE Being, because tree as "tree" is born and dies but the same tree as 5 elements(panch mahabhutas) remains. Subsequently these 5 elements also are ONE CONSCIOUSNESS!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt---------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is one of Gems from Swamiji, ONE Existence- IS both Sadhya-God, and Sadhak,are! One Homogeneous Existence that knows Itself-Being-Conscious in allappearances. Even these words that describe them are concepts only. TripurRahasya(Secret of Triad), Sadhak, Sadhya, and sadhan are only words, soundsemerging from AUM, creating diversity in the mind! What a miraculous Play, myLord, you are playing! God, I am so much at Peace. Swamiji used Existence somany times in this post, the only Reality without a second one!Pranaam to Swamiji, Grace is flowing through and through!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt---------------------------:Shree Hari:Ram RamAspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya, God), and Means (Saadhan)Besides that one Existence. there is nothing else. In that Existence, there isneither `I' nor `you' nor `this' and nor `that'. The existence of the world ismerely assumed by us, in fact it is not there. Only Existence IS existent andthe world is NOT (non existent). The NOT is not (non existent) and IS is IS(Existent) ï¿½ "naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah" (Gita 2:16)."Not" is naturally non-existent and "is" is naturally existent. That IS(Existence) is the End (Goal) to be attained by us. How can what is nonexistent, be our goal? That `IS' is not to be experienced (realized, anubhav),that `IS' is experience (realization, anubhavroop) itself.From a [spiritual] viewpoint a aspirant (sadhak) is he who cannot stay withoutthe End (saadhya, God) and his End (saadhya, God) is that which cannot staywithout the sadhak. The sadhak cannot be separate from the End (Saadhya, God)and the End (Saadhya, God) cannot be separate from the sadhak. The reason isthat the Sadhak and the End (aim, God) both have one existence. There can benothing or no one separate from the `IS' (Existence). Therefore if we areaspirants (sadhaks), we should attain our End (aim) immediately. A aspirant isonly he who does not accept the existence of anything else besides his aim(saadhya). He is dependent on nothing else besides his aim (saadhya), neitheraction, nor object.What kind of aspirant can live without his aim (saadhya, God), and what kind ofan end (saadhya, God) that can live without the aspirant (sadhak)? What achild that can live without the mother and what a mother that can live withoutthe child? Our End (Saadhya) cannot stay without us, it does not have the poweror strength to do so, because at the root - Existence is only one. As in theocean and waves there is only existence of water, similarly in the sadhak andthe End is the one existence. The wave is merely assumed. So long as there isaffinity with the body (inert), in the form of a wave, he is an aspirant. Butwhen affinity with inert matter is totally renounced, he does not remain anaspirant (sadhak), but becomes the end (God, Saadhya).(to be continued)From "Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 107 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan keLiye" in Hindi pg 105(Chapter 8) by Swami Ramsukdhasji.Ram Ram------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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