Important Common factor in Karma, Gyana, Sanyas and Bakthi Marg - Share

May 5, 2009

Namaste,

Any one of the four margs (paths) will lead to realization/liberation. But there

is a common factor without which, it is not possible.

PLEASE SHARE YOUR INSIGHTS!

B.Sathyanarayan

--------------

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3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

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5. Focus on subject at hand only.

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7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

bracketed.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

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May 7, 2009

Namaste,Any one of the four margs (paths) will lead to realization/liberation. But thereis a common factor without which, it is not possible.PLEASE SHARE YOUR INSIGHTS!B.Sathyanarayan--------------NEW POSTINGHari OmThere is not one factor but there are 3 factors which are common in all paths - they are junctions:1

Equanimity - This Jnana , Karma and Dhyana Yogis have to inculcate

while in case of Bhakti Yogi it is given to him by Paramatma2

Peace - Peace generates in each of the yogi before realisation. This

peace is output of "Mukti" (Liberation) and renunciation of inert. This

peace when not "consumed" (bhog) by yogi becomes instrumental in his

Paramatma Realisation 3 Disconnection with Inert- This is a

MUST for every one before realisation. No one can get Paramatma

Realisation without complete disconnection with nature viz matter and

activity. Even a Dhyaan Yogi (meditator) in the end has to renounce

shelter of "karan" i e he has to take "karan nirapeksha" mode.Then there are certain

"personality traits" which are common to all. For example- "sarvabhoot

hite rata" (constant indulgence into welfare of all creaturres) etc.

"Daivy sampada" ( divine traits- BG 16:1/3) manifests automatically in

all yogis. Sadhaks

may note that Mukti (Liberation) is an earlier stage where you get

relief from "bondage" namely worldly sorrows and Paramatma Realisation

is a later stage after "liberation" from bondage. At the level of

Equanimity all paths become one. These paths are normally taken in

order. Gita gives the order as : First Jnana, then Karma and then

Bhakti. Bhakti is of two types , one- as means (sadhan) and two- as end

(sadhya). The latter is called "parabhakti" . This "parabhakti" is

automatcally received to all yogis after liberation PROVIDED they have

no insistence for a particular path (my chosen path is the best , other

are not) ! In parabhakti there is "pratikshan vardhman prem" ( love

which increases with every passing moment) between the Paramatma and

devotee.Beyond "Prem" ( Love) there is nothing. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

----------Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.

In a nutshell, in order to achieve liberation, the only and only way out is to absolutely and completely surrender to

Bhagwan. This has been revealed by Bhagwan Himself (Gita 18.64). This

total "sharanaagati" and atma samarpana with an "ananya bhav" is the

fundamental condition for liberation through any marg whatsoever.

Regards.

K.N. Sharma---------four paths , O sathya sathyanarayan jee ?

while innumerable are the Paths from the mythical Horizon of awe, to where the Self smiles in Love and Joy

the radii from a point on the circumference to the mythical centre , that is the Home

nari thought that the main Paths were three ..... Karma, Bhakti and Gnana ...............

of the three, One becomes the Support of oneself in a particular Lifetime.......... the embodied life.......

and even in that Lifetime,of the three.......... sometimes one, sometimes the other becomes more predominant than the other two

yet, the other two are present too ........... in varying degrees ........... ever present are they ..................

at some point of time in the Life of being, Karmayoga becomes the way, Bhakti and Gyana support it lovingly

at another point of time Bhakti is all that one is ... and Gyana and Karmayoga lovingly caress the Bhakta

and another point of Time .............. Gyana flowers as the Joy of Being , and karma and Bhakti applaud the Gyani .....

ah, the Path is the Path , is the Path, is the Path ...........

the three are One , the Path is the three ......

and the fourth is the Embrace that the Bhakta, the Gyani, the Karmayogi seek to die in ...............

to feel forever the Not-twoness of their being and the Self that has been called ' THAT '

which Tat Twam Asi .............. indeed art thou THAT !

...... the Awareness that loves the three, and gives of itself choicelessly

even when , initially, the awareness of the three shines not brilliantly ...... ah !

and having flowed from the Joy of Silence that itself is the One, which loves all.......

narinder, blissfully surrenders to the One saying, " Only You CAN know yourself by yourself , KRISHNA.................... ah, narinder does not know ! "

This fourth ............

could it be the Awareness that becomes the Watching .........

the Watching that is also called Meditation

the Joy of Watching that is the Way

The Way , where the watcher dies ............ and only Watching remains .........

where the dancer and the dance come to an end

and yet Dancing remains forever as SILENCE ............... ?

silence ............................................... ah !!!!

AUM

narinder bhandari-------Namaste.

It is understood and accepted that Knowledge, Devotion, and Action

are not distinct and separate paths having no relationship with each

other. On the contrary, they together make the Whole. It does not

matter which is man's starting point, but he must encompass them all

before he can become a Yukta or Integrated Individual.

Sri Sankaracharya upheld with relentless logic the supremacy of

Wisdom; for him, Gnana Yoga is supreme, yet in his wonderful 'Hymn to

Hari', he affirms that Reality can be found by Devotion and Faith, and

not by any other means:

Him, the resplendent Lord, who is speedily realizable even in this world by those who strive to seek Him by means of faith, devotion, meditation, self-control and other expedients, but Who is hard to realize, even through hundreds of lives for those who are devoid of these expedients - that Hari, the destroyer of darkness of the world, I praise.

For the devotee or the man of action, the treading of the path of

knowledge is a prime necessity as it is for the man of knowledge to

come to the ecstasy of devotion so as to transform his knowledge into

wisdom and thereby show forth non-attachment in action. From knowledge

to devotion and then from devotion to action are the ascending and

descending streams of man's spiritual life.

Whatever path or paths taken, it is the man of faith who is

completely free, whose mind is mindless, with no attachments or

psychological commitments, who endures and achieves the Ultimate.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath-------Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar,The first and most important path leading to realisation/liberation is Karma. Iwant to know what exactly is meant by Karma...I am eating food...I am writing a message to Geeta Sadhakas...I am beating adog...are these all Karmas?What is a good Karma and what is a bad Karma? Who decides which Karma is goodand which Karma is bad?A good Karma from my point of view may be a bad Karma from the point of view ofother person.A terrorist kills many innocent individuals...and even then he thinks he hasdone a good Karma...he will go to Heaven to reside with God..he will get Muktior Moksha...Where exactly the record of anybody`s Karmas is kept? and who decides whetherthe SOUL of that individual will go to heaven or hell?If the SOUL is born and re-born several times...whether the Karmas of theseseveral births accumulate for liberation?..I am too immature to ask these questions...but to know the answers is necessaryto understand the philosophy, I think...I feel the important common factor in these four paths is...Body, Mind andIntellect....Gee Waman------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

May 8, 2009

Namaste,Any one of the four margs (paths) will lead to realization/liberation. But thereis a common factor without which, it is not possible.PLEASE SHARE YOUR INSIGHTS!B.Sathyanarayan--------------NEW POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!Important common factor in Liberation is

"letting go off "me", the false sense of being, call it surrender,

self-less actions, one-pointed devotion, yoga-meditation, self inquiry,

...............!Namaskar..............Pratap Bhatt-------------Most important common factor is AIM. Every body aims to attain god.

Thanx

raja gurdasani-----------------There are several things that distract us from the path of liberation.The main things are jaan, jevar and zameen. Translated it means woman,money and land or physical possessions. No matter what path onepursues, it is not possible to attain liberation unless one gives upthe attatchment to worldly things realising that they are temporaryand that one must be steadfast and determined in the pursuit of thetrue path shown by our Gurus. This is the common factor in all 4margs.Hari Shanker Deo--------------DEAR SADHAK INSIGHT

THE COMMON FACTOR IS GOD'S GRACE FOR SEEKING GOD'S REALIZATION,SALVATION,NIRVANA OR LIBERATION

TRULY YOURS

S S BHATT-------------------------Dear sadaks,There is only one factor in any Marg or discipline of devotion is GRACE (Sankalp) of BagavanFor Arjuna it was only Grace that he could do all that in his life time. Beeshma lying on bed of arrows says this to Pandavas, You Pandavas- Do not think that Sri Krishna is a cowherd boy, cleaning your horses at staple. HE is Paramathuma came by HIS own Grace, without WHOM you could not have achieved anything.Sadaks Arjuna was very close to Sri Krishna sometimes in same bed resting. But Arjuna failed many times when he failed to recognize Sri Krishna grace. What did the elephant Gajendra do? It only cried out God name , Adi moolam . God sankalp HE gave grace. Each time Prahalad was torch red, he only cried out Narayanah. Grace flowed. Anyone with utmost faith (100%) cry out you can feel the grace. Naradh Rishi, Bagavan in Geetha says, In Rishis I am Naradh and in bird I am Garuda . Naradh just a second lost recognition of Grace, became woman- then monkey- then was to be killed by a bhramin. As soon as he called out for Bagavan things became alright. Jaya & Vijaya door keepers of Vaikunt (which is very well described in Geetha Govindham of Sant Jayadevar) just a second possessed I-Ness , not knowing it is by Gods grace they were there. They stopped Sanakadhi Saints entering Vaikunt. What happened was they were punished 3 births as brothers on earth. Why so much- Balaram elder brother of Sri Krishna and Garuda Chariot of Sri Krishna and most liked wife of Sri Krishna Sathya Bama was frightened or beaten by Hanuman. All of them for a second, thought I-ness . Only HIS grace came in when they called for HIM (Sri Krishna) Referance Sri Krishna Anjuneya Yud (War) script.In Srimath Bagavath- one can read that Bakthi,(mother) her 2 children Gyana (knowledge) and Vairag (determination) grew old in Kali yug. On reaching Virdhavan ONLY Bakthi attained her youthfulness, were as her children remained old. Further it says reading carefully it was Sri Krishna grace in Yamuna & Virdhavan much after Krishna left to Vaikunt. That grace works in Kali yug only for Bakthi. Also Refer Bagavath Geetha 9:1 & 9:2. As long as there is no I-ness or mineness you are connected to grace of God. It is like one is connected to internet. But if net fails & there ends the matter. Duryodhan and so many others saw Sri Krishna. But the way Pandavas saw Sri Krishna matters. They saw with Bakthi and Dharma- Sri Krishna grace was there. When Pandavas gambled, Grace automatically fails, as gambling is called as one of the 5 great sins said by Bagavan.But when Drowpathi called out Dukshadan, Gurus and others while she being disrobed, nothing happened. Script says she was holding on to her last stretch of cloth covering her bottom Abdomen by one hand Grace never came. But once she raised her both the hands and said, Ah Krishna Dwaraka Vaasim , the total surrender (One Sadak has said) the Grace (cloth) started covering to surprise. Why so many Rishis failed in absence of Grace- Like Visvamithra- Koushika- Brihu etc.Gee Waman says good Karma from my point of view may be a bad Karma from the point of view of other person. It is very true. Bagavan as Antheryami within the body illumines good and bad based on once own Karma debt to under go. Here it applies Vasudeva Servam. Bagavan HIMSELF said in Geetha no one can be without doing Karma (HE never said good or bad) For Ganga maatha kills her children in water as per her owe but spares Bheeshma which is also as per owe. She was Goddess of water from Sri Shiva and she knows the Karma debts of her children. Where as we ignorant and complain about our children behavior.Sri Gee Waman also said, A terrorist kills many innocent individuals and even then he thinks he has done a good Karma...he will go to Heaven to reside with God..he will get Mukti or Moksha... That is his presumption. Like one seeing shadow as himself. Like Virochan seeing his face in water and thought that he is God and Indra seeing his face in water negated that he is not Bhraman.Sadak Gee Waman: Who gave scorpion & the snake poison? If you ask them they will say ask Bagavan. Who gave deer the calm and beauty? Bagavan. Bagavan said in Geetha I am in everything, but I am not that . Contemplate ion that.Sri Waman asked, (1)Where exactly the record of anybody`s Karmas is kept? and (2)who decides whether the SOUL of that individual will go to heaven or hell? (3)If the SOUL is born and re-born several times...whether the Karmas of these several births accumulate for liberation? .1.It is maintained by 10 devathas of sensory organs, by the sprit (Jeeva) within (Christian call it holy sprit) and by the Paramathuma HIMSELF. Referance 2cd Skandha of Sri Bagavath. Here paramathuma said to be in a vacuum place in heart. Means that a chip like thing placed there by Paramathuma to send all messages of Karma to Bagavan.It is fool proof. The 10 devathas are on the southern side of earth.2. The karmas are automatically (like soft ware loaded) by actions of thought or by body and the Jeeva witnessing those Karmas takes route to heaven or hell.3. Yes in one birth one does not easily attain God. It is said in Geetha general term. Accumulation of many good deeds over births leads to liberation. This is also said in Geetha, that Paramathuma take such a good jeeva and places in divine womb (divine couple) and places in conjugal atmosphere of Guru to gain Gyana, and takes care to see that person mingles with Yogies/Sanyasin/Sat Sangh and NO WAY gets connecte vto Dur Sangh (Bad Comnpany).Examples: Adi Sankara- Sri Ramana- Thirugyana sambander- Ramadoss- Tukaram-and Namalwar (1 year old) these were people accumulated good deeds.Bagavan has said in Geetha also that by HIS sankalp (GRACE) HE can make any jeeva to liberate.Finally, Only with HIS grace a wall (achetan- non living) moved and flew in sky carrying Gynaneswar, Sobanadev,other brother & Muktha Bai in 16th century amidst public. Sadaks read script in Marathi Gyaneswari (Geetha) wherein it is said clearly about grace of GOD.A poor man visit Badrinath (Most Auspicious said by Bagavan) but not a millionaire. What is it ? HIS GRACE Apologize for lengthy answer with Moderator. Please shorten where ever you feel.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan Body, Mind and Intellect.K.N. Sharma says he only andonly way out is to absolutely and completely surrender to Bhagwan. Thishas been revealed by Bhagwan Himself (Gita 18.64).---------Dear friend,

Gandhiji was greatly impressed by Gita.

He carried copies of it in his travels and gave it to his western friends.

Inspired by it he advocated true democracy symbolised in Ram Raj.

Gandhi was assassinated and a faulty constitution that fosters self seeking coalition politics imposed on the people of India. Kindly advise how Gita-talk can help us in instituting true democracy symbolized in Ram Raj.

Santosh K. Sharma----------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmThere is not one factor but there are 3 factors which are common in all paths - they are junctions:1 Equanimity - This Jnana , Karma and Dhyana Yogis have to inculcate while in case of Bhakti Yogi it is given to him by Paramatma2 Peace - Peace generates in each of the yogi before realisation. This peace is output of "Mukti" (Liberation) and renunciation of inert. This peace when not "consumed" (bhog) by yogi becomes instrumental in his Paramatma Realisation3 Disconnection with Inert- This is a MUST for every one before realisation. No one can get Paramatma Realisation without complete disconnection with nature viz matter and activity. Even a Dhyaan Yogi (meditator) in the end has to renounce shelter of "karan" i e he has to take "karan nirapeksha" mode.Then there are certain "personality traits" which are common to all. For example- "sarvabhoot hite rata" (constant indulgence into welfare of all creaturres) etc. "Daivy sampada" ( divine traits- BG 16:1/3) manifests automatically in all yogis.Sadhaks may note that Mukti (Liberation) is an earlier stage where you get relief from "bondage" namely worldly sorrows and Paramatma Realisation is a later stage after "liberation" from bondage. At the level of Equanimity all paths become one. These paths are normally taken in order. Gita gives the order as : First Jnana, then Karma and then Bhakti. Bhakti is of two types , one- as means (sadhan) and two- as end (sadhya). The latter is called "parabhakti" . This "parabhakti" is automatcally received to all yogis after liberation PROVIDED they have no insistence for a particular path (my chosen path is the best , other are not) ! In parabhakti there is "pratikshan vardhman prem" ( love which increases with every passing moment) between the Paramatma and devotee.Beyond "Prem" ( Love) there is nothing.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B----------Shri Krishnah sharanam mama.In a nutshell, in order to achieve liberation, the only and only way out is to absolutely and completely surrender to Bhagwan. This has been revealed by Bhagwan Himself (Gita 18.64). This total "sharanaagati" and atma samarpana with an "ananya bhav" is the fundamental condition for liberation through any marg whatsoever.Regards.K.N. Sharma---------four paths , O sathya sathyanarayan jee ? while innumerable are the Paths from the mythical Horizon of awe, to where the Self smiles in Love and Joy the radii from a point on the circumference to the mythical centre , that is the Home nari thought that the main Paths were three ..... Karma, Bhakti and Gnana ............... of the three, One becomes the Support of oneself in a particular Lifetime.......... the embodied life....... and even in that Lifetime,of the three.......... sometimes one, sometimes the other becomes more predominant than the other two yet, the other two are present too ........... in varying degrees ........... ever present are they .................. at some point of time in the Life of being, Karmayoga becomes the way, Bhakti and Gyana support it lovingly at another point of time Bhakti is all that one is ... and Gyana and Karmayoga lovingly caress the Bhakta and another point of Time .............. Gyana flowers as the Joy of Being , and karma and Bhakti applaud the Gyani ..... ah, the Path is the Path , is the Path, is the Path ........... the three are One , the Path is the three ...... and the fourth is the Embrace that the Bhakta, the Gyani, the Karmayogi seek to die in ............... to feel forever the Not-twoness of their being and the Self that has been called ' THAT 'which Tat Twam Asi .............. indeed art thou THAT ! ..... the Awareness that loves the three, and gives of itself choicelesslyeven when , initially, the awareness of the three shines not brilliantly ...... ah ! and having flowed from the Joy of Silence that itself is the One, which loves all.......narinder, blissfully surrenders to the One saying, " Only You CAN know yourself by yourself , KRISHNA.................... ah, narinder does not know ! " This fourth ............ could it be the Awareness that becomes the Watching ......... the Watching that is also called Meditation the Joy of Watching that is the Way The Way , where the watcher dies ............ and only Watching remains ......... where the dancer and the dance come to an end and yet Dancing remains forever as SILENCE ............... ? silence ............................................... ah !!!! AUM narinder bhandari-------Namaste. It is understood and accepted that Knowledge, Devotion, and Action are not distinct and separate paths having no relationship with each other. On the contrary, they together make the Whole. It does not matter which is man's starting point, but he must encompass them all before he can become a Yukta or Integrated Individual. Sri Sankaracharya upheld with relentless logic the supremacy of Wisdom; for him, Gnana Yoga is supreme, yet in his wonderful 'Hymn to Hari', he affirms that Reality can be found by Devotion and Faith, and not by any other means: Him, the resplendent Lord, who is speedily realizable even in this world by those who strive to seek Him by means of faith, devotion, meditation, self-control and other expedients, but Who is hard to realize, even through hundreds of lives for those who are devoid of these expedients - that Hari, the destroyer of darkness of the world, I praise. For the devotee or the man of action, the treading of the path of knowledge is a prime necessity as it is for the man of knowledge to come to the ecstasy of devotion so as to transform his knowledge into wisdom and thereby show forth non-attachment in action. From knowledge to devotion and then from devotion to action are the ascending and descending streams of man's spiritual life. Whatever path or paths taken, it is the man of faith who is completely free, whose mind is mindless, with no attachments or psychological commitments, who endures and achieves the Ultimate. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar,The first and most important path leading to realisation/liberation is Karma. Iwant to know what exactly is meant by Karma...I am eating food...I am writing a message to Geeta Sadhakas...I am beating adog...are these all Karmas?What is a good Karma and what is a bad Karma? Who decides which Karma is goodand which Karma is bad?A good Karma from my point of view may be a bad Karma from the point of view ofother person.A terrorist kills many innocent individuals...and even then he thinks he hasdone a good Karma...he will go to Heaven to reside with God..he will get Muktior Moksha...Where exactly the record of anybody`s Karmas is kept? and who decides whetherthe SOUL of that individual will go to heaven or hell?If the SOUL is born and re-born several times...whether the Karmas of theseseveral births accumulate for liberation?..I am too immature to ask these questions...but to know the answers is necessaryto understand the philosophy, I think...I feel the important common factor in these four paths is...Body, Mind andIntellect....Gee Waman------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -