Why the Lack of Constancy? Why Not Firm and Implicit Trust in His Ordinance?

June 9, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,

EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DO

NOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji's

Mangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,

KALPNA DIXIT

---

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER

1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant to

Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take up

spiritual path

2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

3. Only one question at a time.

4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim

of deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they

further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address

etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit

the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message:

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June 9, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DONOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji'sMangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,KALPNA DIXIT

---

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Kalpnaji, appreciate your dilemma. It is understandably hard, as you say, to accept situations when they seem to happen to "us or our loved ones". It is easier to offer comfort to others when the same situations arise in their lives! However, there is a way to address them with the help of Almighty and Just God who is all Intelligence if we can establish some relationship with Him/Her by Sadhana! First of all, we need to understand thoroughly that situations happen impersonally as they happen without any prejudices or intervention on the part of God to punish or reward us. They only seem like happening to us! Situations in themselves are neither good nor bad, we think from a personal point of view, and that is the only reason they are taken "good" or "bad". Don't we know many such situations where someone's gain is someone else' loss?I never label them as such, and just witness them even if it is hard to do so ocassionally. This helps us to be more objective about situations or things or people, so we can take necessary actions with God given Intelligence! What I have found helpful is Prayer in which acknowledgment of limitations of body-mind-intellect(my God given tools), and asking for help of God to do the best for all involved in situations, and in the way He sees fit, in the time He wants to resolve it. In the meantime, I ask for the courage to go through whatever it is and accept it, rather welcome it! This attitude relieves me as soon as I pray and invariably changes my own outlook towards the situations which now look more neutral than before! As a matter of fact, you get an insight to see positives which are not in situations themselves but within "you", really, that was always hidden in labeling good or bad for "me" and then fighting.What gives us the courage to face anything is the Trust in our conviction that nothing is personal in this entire Universe, that God is fairness and freedom and "we" are not individuals, separate and independently existing from God who is the Whole Existence! As such, through Prayer, the Intelligence of God manifests in the tools we have at our disposal!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari OmKalpanaji ! A really good Q ! Reasons appear to be1. Acceptance still is predominantly by mind. Hence, it is not firm. An acceptance by Self is never forgotten. (Does a married woman ever forgets her marital status? - Come what may ). There is acceptance of "Mere to Girdhar Gopal" but not very firmly of " Doosaro na koi" ! There is still respect for world (Doosara / other) in you, proving you have not fully accepted- Doosara Na Koi !2 Your eye is still not on your direct experiences. That respect to one's experiences emerges when you seek equanimity. Else you will not deter from the truth - "ma phaleshu kadachan" !But you need not get panicy or undue worried. It is basically the duty of Paramatma to strengthen your faith. Simply don't test your "acceptance" status or think much about it. Thoughts that you are not yet equanimous, proves your desire to be equanimous. This is sterling desire- Subheccha- auspicious desire ! Hence your "AIM"- object ! Remain firm on this AIM/ object ! Seek Equanimity !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

---

Dear Sadhaka,

This doubt has been projected again and again in different forms .................... and the answer too has been given so many times ........................ here it is again ............................. dear sadhakas (These words are being written with a purpose ............. only to highlight the proof of the True answer ................ )

and the answer True is :

Your knowing is at the Intellectual level ................... and the intellect never goes very deep .............it is a part of the Ego , which eclipses the Truth from becoming a part of our being .

Truth that becomes apart of our being , invariably becomes our 'Conduct ' ..............

To transform our Knowledge ( intelectual level ) into Wisdom ( beyond the intellect ...much deeper ! ) ,Meditation is the Way......................

Each being is different . Each being is not ready ............ that hearing of the scriptural Truth,enables one to eat and digest it instantaneously.

The majority of beings,in the present movement of Time and Space are into 'doing ". They are Karmic by nature .Their nature is different from that of a Bhakta. And,however they may wish to 'change'thie nature ,.........they CANNOT . Their nature shall change gradually through making their Doings a Yoga .....Karam yoga is the Way . Patanjali's Step by step Yoga will bring faster results .

Each being has to follow his nature ...and as a first step,must be able to divine his true nature at the present moment , and accept himself . He/she is his/her own Proof.

Remember ,Wisdom is Action. Spontaneous Action .

May the Buddhas be your Guide ................

AUM

narinder bhandari

---

Ram-Ram,

Everybody (Jeev-atma) has his share of sorrow and happiness according to the work done by him in present and past lives. God is our father, he never punishes us without mistake. (Do we enjoy while punishing our kids? No! But we do punish our kids, to stop them from getting spoiled.) If we make mistake and then we have to be ready for the punishment. The all merciful God gives us the power to bear the punishment and learn from it. Now its our mistake if we don't understand it.

Ashok Goenka

P>

----

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

June 10, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DONOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji'sMangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,KALPNA DIXIT

---

NEW POSTING

Namaste.I urge you to read and study these precious gems from today's sadhaka group post; go to group's home page to .sadhaka/In my humble opinion, these 3 lines cover the content of hundreds or thousands of books. If you have truly developed Love for Bhagavan, you will not be bothered about anything; you will not be wondering about happiness, sorrow, joy, agony....."Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues.""On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love.""Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unaware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan."Profound, isn't it ? See below for full post Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

--------------------

: Shree Hari: Ram Ram10th June, 2009, Wednesday; Aashaad Krishna Tritiya, Vikram Samvat 2066, Budhvaar

There is an important point to think about and that is - Sins and virtues are not wiped out from happiness and sorrow, but from receiving favorable and unfavorable situations. Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues,. But the longing due to separation from Bhagavan (God), is the fruit of Love. On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love. Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan.

It is not a big deal to wipe out sins and virtues. Sins and virtues of every single person are continuing to get destroyed; because favorable and unfavorable situation arise in front of every single creature. In heaven, continuously virtues are being wiped out; and in hell uninterruptedly sins are being wiped out. Sins and virtues are within the realm of nature born "gunas" (prakritijanya, modes of nature). Both sins and virtues are of the same "jaati" class (category) i.e. both lead to bondage, both are are inauspicious, impure, arise and are later destroyed.

On the other hand the union and separation that takes place due to relationship with Bhagavaan is extremely divine, blissful, transcendental, eternal and awakens Love. Relationship with Bhagavaan not only destroys sins and virtues, rather it destroys the cause of sins and virtues that is ignorance (in other words, relationship with gunas or modes of nature). Therefore sins and virtues are in a separate department from union and separation.

On attaining enlightenment, the enlightened one is not free from situations, rather he is free from happiness and sorrow. Favorable and unfavorable situations come and go according to what is destined to come to even a man of wisdom, but he remains unaffected by these situations, rather he does not become happy or unhappy; because he is free of modes of nature (gunaateeth) -"samdukh - sukhahswasthah" (Gita 14/24).

If favorable and unfavorable situations were the ones to give happiness and sorrow, i.e. if happiness and sorrow were the fruits of sins and virtues, then man could never become free from happiness and sorrow - "dwandvairvimuktaah sukhadukhsanjaih" (Gita 15/5).

Prahladji, Mirabai etc. were faced with so many unfavorable situations, then too they never became unhappy. In being free of situations, a man is not independent. However he is entirely independent in not delighting in enjoyments, i.e. not becoming happy and sad. Being a part (ansh) of Paramatma, he is naturally free of all modifications (nirvikaar).

From "Alaukik Prem" in Hindi page 5-8 by Swami Ramsukhdasji Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.org

---------------------

That is why the world is known as Maya. What appears to be, is not true.

This understanding that everything happening is for good, God is only good....

is easy to follow when you have full faith and practice this for a while.....

All doubts will have to be countered/neutralized by your faith in the understanding mentioned above, shifting your mind to accept that every happening is good.......

The irritation will dissolve/disappear.....for results to come, it takes a little time...

but truth is truth...........experience it, try it out.......

Sushil Jain

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Mr Bhandari, What conduct...what Time and Space ? What inability? What efforts? What step by step ? What does it take for a child to say MOM IS MINE ? What wisdom is required there? Cant we even become like a child ? Meditation as I understand is CATEGORICALLY stated not once but twice in the Gita that it is the most difficult. As I understand the the pre qualifications required to MEDITATE are not simple as stated in Gita Chaper VI .

Bhakti Yoga is the easiest as per Lord Krishna in Gita, Goswamiji in Ramayana, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Shrimad Bhagavatam ( and endless Scriptures)... but you are opinion is thaat it is the toughest because in your views humans are not equipped...100% opposite of reality. Similarly Dhyaan Yoga contemplates a lot of qualifications as per Gita, Patanjali Yoga Darshana etc... you say it is the way (if not now the ONLY way- thanks for relaxation ).

My sincere advice - SHED ALL PRIOR INSISTENCES OF MIND. BE FRESH . YOU ARE AMONG THE SADHAKS HERE. YOU ARE IN SATSANGA ! .... SATSANGA !! HERE ONLY SAT PREVAILS.

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh Joshi

-

Narain ! Narain !!

Sadhak Narinder ! kindly quote Gita / other scriptures to support your views, as the guidelines for the group suggest.

Gita 9:31 and Ramcharitra manas clearly state - " Sanmukh hoi jeev mohi jabahi, koti anagh tav naashahin tabahi" ( When Jeeva turns towards Me, all his sins get destroyed) - Human birth has been glorified time and again in Scriptures. Swamiji sasy again and again - ALL ARE CAPABLE, ALL ARE ELIGIBLE, ALL HAVE ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR KALYAAN.

However I do see an improvement, from earlier when you used to insist Meditation is the Only way, to now Meditation is the way. Also, by the way : WISDOM IS NOT ACTION ( KARMA) ; WISDOM IS INACTION (AKARMA) !! Read Gita 18:33.

Narain ! Narain !!

Naarad N Maharishi

----

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Kalpnaji, appreciate your dilemma. It is understandably hard, as you say, to accept situations when they seem to happen to "us or our loved ones". It is easier to offer comfort to others when the same situations arise in their lives! However, there is a way to address them with the help of Almighty and Just God who is all Intelligence if we can establish some relationship with Him/Her by Sadhana! First of all, we need to understand thoroughly that situations happen impersonally as they happen without any prejudices or intervention on the part of God to punish or reward us. They only seem like happening to us! Situations in themselves are neither good nor bad, we think from a personal point of view, and that is the only reason they are taken "good" or "bad". Don't we know many such situations where someone's gain is someone else' loss?I never label them as such, and just witness them even if it is hard to do so ocassionally. This helps us to be more objective about situations or things or people, so we can take necessary actions with God given Intelligence! What I have found helpful is Prayer in which acknowledgment of limitations of body-mind-intellect(my God given tools), and asking for help of God to do the best for all involved in situations, and in the way He sees fit, in the time He wants to resolve it. In the meantime, I ask for the courage to go through whatever it is and accept it, rather welcome it! This attitude relieves me as soon as I pray and invariably changes my own outlook towards the situations which now look more neutral than before! As a matter of fact, you get an insight to see positives which are not in situations themselves but within "you", really, that was always hidden in labeling good or bad for "me" and then fighting.What gives us the courage to face anything is the Trust in our conviction that nothing is personal in this entire Universe, that God is fairness and freedom and "we" are not individuals, separate and independently existing from God who is the Whole Existence! As such, through Prayer, the Intelligence of God manifests in the tools we have at our disposal!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

Kalpanaji ! A really good Q !

Reasons appear to be

1. Acceptance still is predominantly by mind. Hence, it is not firm. An acceptance by Self is never forgotten. (Does a married woman ever forgets her marital status? - Come what may ). There is acceptance of "Mere to Girdhar Gopal" but not very firmly of " Doosaro na koi" ! There is still respect for world (Doosara / other) in you, proving you have not fully accepted- Doosara Na Koi !

2 Your eye is still not on your direct experiences. That respect to one's experiences emerges when you seek equanimity. Else you will not deter from the truth - "ma phaleshu kadachan" !

But you need not get panicy or undue worried. It is basically the duty of Paramatma to strengthen your faith. Simply don't test your "acceptance" status or think much about it. Thoughts that you are not yet equanimous, proves your desire to be equanimous. This is sterling desire- Subheccha- auspicious desire ! Hence your "AIM"- object ! Remain firm on this AIM/ object ! Seek Equanimity !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---

Dear Sadhaka,This doubt has been projected again and again in different forms .................... and the answer too has been given so many times ........................ here it is again ............................. dear sadhakas (These words are being written with a purpose ............. only to highlight the proof of the True answer ................ ) and the answer True is : Your knowing is at the Intellectual level ................... and the intellect never goes very deep .............it is a part of the Ego , which eclipses the Truth from becoming a part of our being . Truth that becomes apart of our being , invariably becomes our 'Conduct ' .............. To transform our Knowledge ( intelectual level ) into Wisdom ( beyond the intellect ...much deeper ! ) ,Meditation is the Way...................... Each being is different . Each being is not ready ............ that hearing of the scriptural Truth,enables one to eat and digest it instantaneously. The majority of beings,in the present movement of Time and Space are into 'doing ". They are Karmic by nature .Their nature is different from that of a Bhakta. And,however they may wish to 'change'thie nature ,.........they CANNOT . Their nature shall change gradually through making their Doings a Yoga .....Karam yoga is the Way . Patanjali's Step by step Yoga will bring faster results . Each being has to follow his nature ...and as a first step,must be able to divine his true nature at the present moment , and accept himself . He/she is his/her own Proof. Remember ,Wisdom is Action. Spontaneous Action . May the Buddhas be your Guide ................ AUM narinder bhandari---Ram-Ram,Everybody (Jeev-atma) has his share of sorrow and happiness according to the work done by him in present and past lives. God is our father, he never punishes us without mistake. (Do we enjoy while punishing our kids? No! But we do punish our kids, to stop them from getting spoiled.) If we make mistake and then we have to be ready for the punishment. The all merciful God gives us the power to bear the punishment and learn from it. Now its our mistake if we don't understand it.Ashok GoenkaP>

----

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

June 11, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DONOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji'sMangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,KALPNA DIXIT

---

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Swamiji says - A mother loves her child dearly, yet she scrubs him and pours water over him while giving him a bath. She does this to cleanse him, and does not ask for permission, and she does this even if the child cries, or resents or is defiant. We are like His children, but ultimately we have no choice but to crawl back into our mother's lap. Because there is no other safe place like that. God is our eternal mother, father, companion, caretaker and everything. He is the only One with us at all times. Every one else will desert us, sometime or the other.

So whether we believe it or not, we will ultimately crawl into His lap, no matter what.

With devotion, Meera Das, Ram Ram

------------------------------

Dear sadhakas,Hare krishna. This is in response to a questionFrom a sadhaka. Lord krishna says in bhagavad gita,"Prakrtyaiva ca karmani,Kriyamanani sarvasah,Yah pasyati tathatmanam,Akartaram sa pasyati. " (Gita 13, 30)Which means"One who sees that all activitiesAre performed by the body,which is made up of material natureAnd sees that self does nothing,Is the one that actually sees andThat one is the gnani. "This body is made up of materialNature under the direction of theLord and the activities that areGoing on in one,s body is not his doing. The body is given because of our past desires, and to satisfy one,s desires, one gets this body. The ' self ' is outside the activities of the body. Because of our desires, we get into these circumstances, that give us pain or pleasure. One who realizes that he is not this body and sees the difference between the body and theSelf , has developed the transcendental vision and that one, is the gnani. The way to get out of these, material miseries of our lives, is through devotional service. Let us chant the holy name of theLord and advance spiritually. Thank you. Hare krishna. Prasad iragavarapu. M. D

---

-Shree Hari-

Nameste!

Consider the paste:

Gitaji:2 56. He whose mind is not shaken by adversity, who does not hanker

after pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear and anger, is called a

sage of steady wisdom.

Now I will tell you this, something amazing can happen when you are severely

afflicted in some way or other. If you focus on the Divine, your pain can be

transmuted into love, not bitterness.

What a joy it is to observe the way you change towards those who suffer around

you, you will realize, you are touched by 'Divine Love'!

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (K)

--

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste.

I urge you to read and study these precious gems from today's sadhaka group post; go to group's home page to .sadhaka/

In my humble opinion, these 3 lines cover the content of hundreds or thousands of books. If you have truly developed Love for Bhagavan, you will not be bothered about anything; you will not be wondering about happiness, sorrow, joy, agony.....

"Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues."

"On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love."

"Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unaware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan."

Profound, isn't it ?

See below for full post

Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

--------------------

: Shree Hari: Ram Ram

10th June, 2009, Wednesday; Aashaad Krishna Tritiya, Vikram Samvat 2066, Budhvaar

There is an important point to think about and that is - Sins and virtues are not wiped out from happiness and sorrow, but from receiving favorable and unfavorable situations. Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues,. But the longing due to separation from Bhagavan (God), is the fruit of Love. On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love. Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan.

It is not a big deal to wipe out sins and virtues. Sins and virtues of every single person are continuing to get destroyed; because favorable and unfavorable situation arise in front of every single creature. In heaven, continuously virtues are being wiped out; and in hell uninterruptedly sins are being wiped out. Sins and virtues are within the realm of nature born "gunas" (prakritijanya, modes of nature). Both sins and virtues are of the same "jaati" class (category) i.e. both lead to bondage, both are are inauspicious, impure, arise and are later destroyed.

On the other hand the union and separation that takes place due to relationship with Bhagavaan is extremely divine, blissful, transcendental, eternal and awakens Love. Relationship with Bhagavaan not only destroys sins and virtues, rather it destroys the cause of sins and virtues that is ignorance (in other words, relationship with gunas or modes of nature). Therefore sins and virtues are in a separate department from union and separation.

On attaining enlightenment, the enlightened one is not free from situations, rather he is free from happiness and sorrow. Favorable and unfavorable situations come and go according to what is destined to come to even a man of wisdom, but he remains unaffected by these situations, rather he does not become happy or unhappy; because he is free of modes of nature (gunaateeth) -"samdukh - sukhahswasthah" (Gita 14/24).

If favorable and unfavorable situations were the ones to give happiness and sorrow, i.e. if happiness and sorrow were the fruits of sins and virtues, then man could never become free from happiness and sorrow - "dwandvairvimuktaah sukhadukhsanjaih" (Gita 15/5).

Prahladji, Mirabai etc. were faced with so many unfavorable situations, then too they never became unhappy. In being free of situations, a man is not independent. However he is entirely independent in not delighting in enjoyments, i.e. not becoming happy and sad. Being a part (ansh) of Paramatma, he is naturally free of all modifications (nirvikaar).

From "Alaukik Prem" in Hindi page 5-8 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.org

---------------------

That is why the world is known as Maya. What appears to be, is not true. This understanding that everything happening is for good, God is only good....is easy to follow when you have full faith and practice this for a while..... All doubts will have to be countered/neutralized by your faith in the understanding mentioned above, shifting your mind to accept that every happening is good.......The irritation will dissolve/disappear.....for results to come, it takes a little time...but truth is truth...........experience it, try it out....... Sushil Jain Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Mr Bhandari, What conduct...what Time and Space ? What inability? What efforts? What step by step ? What does it take for a child to say MOM IS MINE ? What wisdom is required there? Cant we even become like a child ? Meditation as I understand is CATEGORICALLY stated not once but twice in the Gita that it is the most difficult. As I understand the the pre qualifications required to MEDITATE are not simple as stated in Gita Chaper VI . Bhakti Yoga is the easiest as per Lord Krishna in Gita, Goswamiji in Ramayana, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Shrimad Bhagavatam ( and endless Scriptures)... but you are opinion is thaat it is the toughest because in your views humans are not equipped...100% opposite of reality. Similarly Dhyaan Yoga contemplates a lot of qualifications as per Gita, Patanjali Yoga Darshana etc... you say it is the way (if not now the ONLY way- thanks for relaxation ). My sincere advice - SHED ALL PRIOR INSISTENCES OF MIND. BE FRESH . YOU ARE AMONG THE SADHAKS HERE. YOU ARE IN SATSANGA ! .... SATSANGA !! HERE ONLY SAT PREVAILS. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi-Narain ! Narain !! Sadhak Narinder ! kindly quote Gita / other scriptures to support your views, as the guidelines for the group suggest. Gita 9:31 and Ramcharitra manas clearly state - " Sanmukh hoi jeev mohi jabahi, koti anagh tav naashahin tabahi" ( When Jeeva turns towards Me, all his sins get destroyed) - Human birth has been glorified time and again in Scriptures. Swamiji sasy again and again - ALL ARE CAPABLE, ALL ARE ELIGIBLE, ALL HAVE ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR KALYAAN. However I do see an improvement, from earlier when you used to insist Meditation is the Only way, to now Meditation is the way. Also, by the way : WISDOM IS NOT ACTION ( KARMA) ; WISDOM IS INACTION (AKARMA) !! Read Gita 18:33. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Kalpnaji, appreciate your dilemma. It is understandably hard, as you say, to accept situations when they seem to happen to "us or our loved ones". It is easier to offer comfort to others when the same situations arise in their lives! However, there is a way to address them with the help of Almighty and Just God who is all Intelligence if we can establish some relationship with Him/Her by Sadhana! First of all, we need to understand thoroughly that situations happen impersonally as they happen without any prejudices or intervention on the part of God to punish or reward us. They only seem like happening to us! Situations in themselves are neither good nor bad, we think from a personal point of view, and that is the only reason they are taken "good" or "bad". Don't we know many such situations where someone's gain is someone else' loss?I never label them as such, and just witness them even if it is hard to do so ocassionally. This helps us to be more objective about situations or things or people, so we can take necessary actions with God given Intelligence! What I have found helpful is Prayer in which acknowledgment of limitations of body-mind-intellect(my God given tools), and asking for help of God to do the best for all involved in situations, and in the way He sees fit, in the time He wants to resolve it. In the meantime, I ask for the courage to go through whatever it is and accept it, rather welcome it! This attitude relieves me as soon as I pray and invariably changes my own outlook towards the situations which now look more neutral than before! As a matter of fact, you get an insight to see positives which are not in situations themselves but within "you", really, that was always hidden in labeling good or bad for "me" and then fighting.What gives us the courage to face anything is the Trust in our conviction that nothing is personal in this entire Universe, that God is fairness and freedom and "we" are not individuals, separate and independently existing from God who is the Whole Existence! As such, through Prayer, the Intelligence of God manifests in the tools we have at our disposal!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

Kalpanaji ! A really good Q !

Reasons appear to be

1. Acceptance still is predominantly by mind. Hence, it is not firm. An acceptance by Self is never forgotten. (Does a married woman ever forgets her marital status? - Come what may ). There is acceptance of "Mere to Girdhar Gopal" but not very firmly of " Doosaro na koi" ! There is still respect for world (Doosara / other) in you, proving you have not fully accepted- Doosara Na Koi !

2 Your eye is still not on your direct experiences. That respect to one's experiences emerges when you seek equanimity. Else you will not deter from the truth - "ma phaleshu kadachan" !

But you need not get panicy or undue worried. It is basically the duty of Paramatma to strengthen your faith. Simply don't test your "acceptance" status or think much about it. Thoughts that you are not yet equanimous, proves your desire to be equanimous. This is sterling desire- Subheccha- auspicious desire ! Hence your "AIM"- object ! Remain firm on this AIM/ object ! Seek Equanimity !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---

Dear Sadhaka,This doubt has been projected again and again in different forms .................... and the answer too has been given so many times ........................ here it is again ............................. dear sadhakas (These words are being written with a purpose ............. only to highlight the proof of the True answer ................ ) and the answer True is : Your knowing is at the Intellectual level ................... and the intellect never goes very deep .............it is a part of the Ego , which eclipses the Truth from becoming a part of our being . Truth that becomes apart of our being , invariably becomes our 'Conduct ' .............. To transform our Knowledge ( intelectual level ) into Wisdom ( beyond the intellect ...much deeper ! ) ,Meditation is the Way...................... Each being is different . Each being is not ready ............ that hearing of the scriptural Truth,enables one to eat and digest it instantaneously. The majority of beings,in the present movement of Time and Space are into 'doing ". They are Karmic by nature .Their nature is different from that of a Bhakta. And,however they may wish to 'change'thie nature ,.........they CANNOT . Their nature shall change gradually through making their Doings a Yoga .....Karam yoga is the Way . Patanjali's Step by step Yoga will bring faster results . Each being has to follow his nature ...and as a first step,must be able to divine his true nature at the present moment , and accept himself . He/she is his/her own Proof. Remember ,Wisdom is Action. Spontaneous Action . May the Buddhas be your Guide ................ AUM narinder bhandari---Ram-Ram,Everybody (Jeev-atma) has his share of sorrow and happiness according to the work done by him in present and past lives. God is our father, he never punishes us without mistake. (Do we enjoy while punishing our kids? No! But we do punish our kids, to stop them from getting spoiled.) If we make mistake and then we have to be ready for the punishment. The all merciful God gives us the power to bear the punishment and learn from it. Now its our mistake if we don't understand it.Ashok GoenkaP>

----

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

June 12, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DONOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji'sMangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,KALPNA DIXIT

---

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Brothers, Deosaranji pointed out this particular statement from sadhaka postings. What is your understanding of this statement? Do you have any doubts, disagreements with what is being stated?

"Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues."

Kindly share, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-

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Why the Lack of Constancy? Why Not Firm and Implicit Trust in His Ordinance?Because … "OUR GOOD" has never let our focus shift away from itself even in thename of The God! We wander in search of "our good" everywhere in absolutefutility as we lack truthful appreciation of good and bad on one hand; and areincapable of looking at anything without the filter-glass in terms of ournotions of good and bad on the other hand. Till we remain captive within ournotions of good and bad, The God remains a distant notion as well. Therefore, acloser look at our notions of good and bad may be the clue to this question ...RespectsNaga Narayana

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Hari OmAll three messages in the last post are divine ! They are:Exclusive mineness with Him ( Miraji Dass) ; Love. ( Brother Mike) and Equanimity ( Prasadji)!Let us put Mineness and Love on one side (there is "cause" and "effect" relationship between the two) AND Equanimity ( Samata) in other Side :Says Tulsidasji Maharaj :TULSI MAMTA RAAM SE, SAMATA SAB SANSAAR

NB Vyas

----------

Dear Sadhaks

In Gita ,where it is mentioned that:-

1)God has done all good for us

2)Every situation is for our good

I have not seen mention of such assumptions.I invite reference to Verse 14 of 5 th Chapter

and verse 14 th of 5th chapter which says otherwise.You may also study remaining verses of 14th Chapter.

The universe or God operates on two basic principles:-

a)Free choice-we are free to choose the way we want to feel,think or act on any situation.

b)Non-interference-God will not interfere in any choice we make.

Please also refer to verse 16th and 17th of 18th Chapter on the 'Doer" or Karta

regards

Ashok Jain

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Radhey ! Radhey !!

We shall crawl into the Mom's Lap....undoubtedly ! But when? Now itself or after toiling, sufferring, travelling into endless wombs...when ? THIS ENTIRELY DEPENDS UPON US ! There is a difference between Holy Bath in Holy Ganges when taken in the month of January or when taken in the Month of May. Result is same, but pains......! Why should we leave what is under our prorogative, under our control and under our arena of KARMA to the FATE/DESTINY and why we should run day and night after those things which have no corelation with your present Karmas but have corelation with your fate/destiny? No ! Devotion/Bhakti and shedding of worldly me and mine need be taken instantly. Dear Sadhaks ! Laws of Nature always drag us towards our Mom. We delay the process by DESIRING worldly transitory things and getting attached with worldly people and establishing UNNATURAL....Me (es) and Mine(s). No one is ours, we dont belong to the world, nothing is ours, .....it is TRUTH ....TRUTH !! Sooner we realise it, faster we shall crawl into HIS lap. Laws of Nature are ruthless. If we dont move suo motto towards His lap, they will give us pains and drive us towards His lap...be sure about it !

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Swamiji says - A mother loves her child dearly, yet she scrubs him and pours water over him while giving him a bath. She does this to cleanse him, and does not ask for permission, and she does this even if the child cries, or resents or is defiant. We are like His children, but ultimately we have no choice but to crawl back into our mother's lap. Because there is no other safe place like that. God is our eternal mother, father, companion, caretaker and everything. He is the only One with us at all times. Every one else will desert us, sometime or the other.

So whether we believe it or not, we will ultimately crawl into His lap, no matter what.

With devotion, Meera Das, Ram Ram

------------------------------

Dear sadhakas,Hare krishna.

This is in response to a questionFrom a sadhaka.

Lord krishna says in bhagavad gita,

"Prakrtyaiva ca karmani,Kriyamanani sarvasah,Yah pasyati tathatmanam,Akartaram sa pasyati. " (Gita 13, 30)

Which means

"One who sees that all activitiesAre performed by the body,which is made up of material natureAnd sees that self does nothing,Is the one that actually sees andThat one is the gnani. "

This body is made up of materialNature under the direction of theLord and the activities that areGoing on in one,s body is not his doing. The body is given because of our past desires, and to satisfy one,s desires, one gets this body. The ' self ' is outside the activities of the body. Because of our desires, we get into these circumstances, that give us pain or pleasure.

One who realizes that he is not this body and sees the difference between the body and theSelf , has developed the transcendental vision and that one, is the gnani.

The way to get out of these, material miseries of our lives, is through devotional service. Let us chant the holy name of theLord and advance spiritually.

Thank you.

Hare krishna.

Prasad iragavarapu. M. D

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-Shree Hari-Nameste!Consider the paste:Gitaji:2 56. He whose mind is not shaken by adversity, who does not hankerafter pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear and anger, is called asage of steady wisdom.Now I will tell you this, something amazing can happen when you are severelyafflicted in some way or other. If you focus on the Divine, your pain can betransmuted into love, not bitterness.What a joy it is to observe the way you change towards those who suffer aroundyou, you will realize, you are touched by 'Divine Love'!With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (K)

--

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste.

I urge you to read and study these precious gems from today's sadhaka group post; go to group's home page to .sadhaka/

In my humble opinion, these 3 lines cover the content of hundreds or thousands of books. If you have truly developed Love for Bhagavan, you will not be bothered about anything; you will not be wondering about happiness, sorrow, joy, agony.....

"Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues."

"On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love."

"Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unaware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan."

Profound, isn't it ?

See below for full post

Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath

--------------------

: Shree Hari: Ram Ram

10th June, 2009, Wednesday; Aashaad Krishna Tritiya, Vikram Samvat 2066, Budhvaar

There is an important point to think about and that is - Sins and virtues are not wiped out from happiness and sorrow, but from receiving favorable and unfavorable situations. Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues,. But the longing due to separation from Bhagavan (God), is the fruit of Love. On having a relationship with Bhagavan, how can ignorance remain ! Ignorance cannot remain in either knowledge or in Love. Man is only happy and unhappy as long as he is unware of his true Self, his real nature (Swaroop) or if he has not developed Love for Bhagavan.

It is not a big deal to wipe out sins and virtues. Sins and virtues of every single person are continuing to get destroyed; because favorable and unfavorable situation arise in front of every single creature. In heaven, continuously virtues are being wiped out; and in hell uninterruptedly sins are being wiped out. Sins and virtues are within the realm of nature born "gunas" (prakritijanya, modes of nature). Both sins and virtues are of the same "jaati" class (category) i.e. both lead to bondage, both are are inauspicious, impure, arise and are later destroyed.

On the other hand the union and separation that takes place due to relationship with Bhagavaan is extremely divine, blissful, transcendental, eternal and awakens Love. Relationship with Bhagavaan not only destroys sins and virtues, rather it destroys the cause of sins and virtues that is ignorance (in other words, relationship with gunas or modes of nature). Therefore sins and virtues are in a separate department from union and separation.

On attaining enlightenment, the enlightened one is not free from situations, rather he is free from happiness and sorrow. Favorable and unfavorable situations come and go according to what is destined to come to even a man of wisdom, but he remains unaffected by these situations, rather he does not become happy or unhappy; because he is free of modes of nature (gunaateeth) -"samdukh - sukhahswasthah" (Gita 14/24).

If favorable and unfavorable situations were the ones to give happiness and sorrow, i.e. if happiness and sorrow were the fruits of sins and virtues, then man could never become free from happiness and sorrow - "dwandvairvimuktaah sukhadukhsanjaih" (Gita 15/5).

Prahladji, Mirabai etc. were faced with so many unfavorable situations, then too they never became unhappy. In being free of situations, a man is not independent. However he is entirely independent in not delighting in enjoyments, i.e. not becoming happy and sad. Being a part (ansh) of Paramatma, he is naturally free of all modifications (nirvikaar).

From "Alaukik Prem" in Hindi page 5-8 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji.org

---------------------

That is why the world is known as Maya. What appears to be, is not true. This understanding that everything happening is for good, God is only good....is easy to follow when you have full faith and practice this for a while..... All doubts will have to be countered/neutralized by your faith in the understanding mentioned above, shifting your mind to accept that every happening is good.......The irritation will dissolve/disappear.....for results to come, it takes a little time...but truth is truth...........experience it, try it out....... Sushil Jain Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Mr Bhandari, What conduct...what Time and Space ? What inability? What efforts? What step by step ? What does it take for a child to say MOM IS MINE ? What wisdom is required there? Cant we even become like a child ? Meditation as I understand is CATEGORICALLY stated not once but twice in the Gita that it is the most difficult. As I understand the the pre qualifications required to MEDITATE are not simple as stated in Gita Chaper VI . Bhakti Yoga is the easiest as per Lord Krishna in Gita, Goswamiji in Ramayana, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Shrimad Bhagavatam ( and endless Scriptures)... but you are opinion is thaat it is the toughest because in your views humans are not equipped...100% opposite of reality. Similarly Dhyaan Yoga contemplates a lot of qualifications as per Gita, Patanjali Yoga Darshana etc... you say it is the way (if not now the ONLY way- thanks for relaxation ). My sincere advice - SHED ALL PRIOR INSISTENCES OF MIND. BE FRESH . YOU ARE AMONG THE SADHAKS HERE. YOU ARE IN SATSANGA ! .... SATSANGA !! HERE ONLY SAT PREVAILS. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi-Narain ! Narain !! Sadhak Narinder ! kindly quote Gita / other scriptures to support your views, as the guidelines for the group suggest. Gita 9:31 and Ramcharitra manas clearly state - " Sanmukh hoi jeev mohi jabahi, koti anagh tav naashahin tabahi" ( When Jeeva turns towards Me, all his sins get destroyed) - Human birth has been glorified time and again in Scriptures. Swamiji sasy again and again - ALL ARE CAPABLE, ALL ARE ELIGIBLE, ALL HAVE ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR KALYAAN. However I do see an improvement, from earlier when you used to insist Meditation is the Only way, to now Meditation is the way. Also, by the way : WISDOM IS NOT ACTION ( KARMA) ; WISDOM IS INACTION (AKARMA) !! Read Gita 18:33. Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi----

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Kalpnaji, appreciate your dilemma. It is understandably hard, as you say, to accept situations when they seem to happen to "us or our loved ones". It is easier to offer comfort to others when the same situations arise in their lives! However, there is a way to address them with the help of Almighty and Just God who is all Intelligence if we can establish some relationship with Him/Her by Sadhana! First of all, we need to understand thoroughly that situations happen impersonally as they happen without any prejudices or intervention on the part of God to punish or reward us. They only seem like happening to us! Situations in themselves are neither good nor bad, we think from a personal point of view, and that is the only reason they are taken "good" or "bad". Don't we know many such situations where someone's gain is someone else' loss?I never label them as such, and just witness them even if it is hard to do so ocassionally. This helps us to be more objective about situations or things or people, so we can take necessary actions with God given Intelligence! What I have found helpful is Prayer in which acknowledgment of limitations of body-mind-intellect(my God given tools), and asking for help of God to do the best for all involved in situations, and in the way He sees fit, in the time He wants to resolve it. In the meantime, I ask for the courage to go through whatever it is and accept it, rather welcome it! This attitude relieves me as soon as I pray and invariably changes my own outlook towards the situations which now look more neutral than before! As a matter of fact, you get an insight to see positives which are not in situations themselves but within "you", really, that was always hidden in labeling good or bad for "me" and then fighting.What gives us the courage to face anything is the Trust in our conviction that nothing is personal in this entire Universe, that God is fairness and freedom and "we" are not individuals, separate and independently existing from God who is the Whole Existence! As such, through Prayer, the Intelligence of God manifests in the tools we have at our disposal!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Hari Om

Kalpanaji ! A really good Q !

Reasons appear to be

1. Acceptance still is predominantly by mind. Hence, it is not firm. An acceptance by Self is never forgotten. (Does a married woman ever forgets her marital status? - Come what may ). There is acceptance of "Mere to Girdhar Gopal" but not very firmly of " Doosaro na koi" ! There is still respect for world (Doosara / other) in you, proving you have not fully accepted- Doosara Na Koi !

2 Your eye is still not on your direct experiences. That respect to one's experiences emerges when you seek equanimity. Else you will not deter from the truth - "ma phaleshu kadachan" !

But you need not get panicy or undue worried. It is basically the duty of Paramatma to strengthen your faith. Simply don't test your "acceptance" status or think much about it. Thoughts that you are not yet equanimous, proves your desire to be equanimous. This is sterling desire- Subheccha- auspicious desire ! Hence your "AIM"- object ! Remain firm on this AIM/ object ! Seek Equanimity !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---

Dear Sadhaka,This doubt has been projected again and again in different forms .................... and the answer too has been given so many times ........................ here it is again ............................. dear sadhakas (These words are being written with a purpose ............. only to highlight the proof of the True answer ................ ) and the answer True is : Your knowing is at the Intellectual level ................... and the intellect never goes very deep .............it is a part of the Ego , which eclipses the Truth from becoming a part of our being . Truth that becomes apart of our being , invariably becomes our 'Conduct ' .............. To transform our Knowledge ( intelectual level ) into Wisdom ( beyond the intellect ...much deeper ! ) ,Meditation is the Way...................... Each being is different . Each being is not ready ............ that hearing of the scriptural Truth,enables one to eat and digest it instantaneously. The majority of beings,in the present movement of Time and Space are into 'doing ". They are Karmic by nature .Their nature is different from that of a Bhakta. And,however they may wish to 'change'thie nature ,.........they CANNOT . Their nature shall change gradually through making their Doings a Yoga .....Karam yoga is the Way . Patanjali's Step by step Yoga will bring faster results . Each being has to follow his nature ...and as a first step,must be able to divine his true nature at the present moment , and accept himself . He/she is his/her own Proof. Remember ,Wisdom is Action. Spontaneous Action . May the Buddhas be your Guide ................ AUM narinder bhandari---Ram-Ram,Everybody (Jeev-atma) has his share of sorrow and happiness according to the work done by him in present and past lives. God is our father, he never punishes us without mistake. (Do we enjoy while punishing our kids? No! But we do punish our kids, to stop them from getting spoiled.) If we make mistake and then we have to be ready for the punishment. The all merciful God gives us the power to bear the punishment and learn from it. Now its our mistake if we don't understand it.Ashok GoenkaP>

----

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

June 15, 2009

WHEN WE KNOW GOD HAS DONE ALL GOOD FOR US AND EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD,EVEN THEN, WHEN SOMETHING UNPLEASANT HAPPENS IN OUR LIFE WE GET IRRITATED & DONOT EASILY BELIEVE THAT EVERY SITUATION IS FOR OUR GOOD. (Bhagwaanji'sMangalmai Vidhaan)

KINDLY ELABORATE,KALPNA DIXIT

---

NEW POSTING

Priy sadhaks,

This situation is very practical and almost every one come across this.

The reason is lack of APANAPAN (feeling of mine) WITH GOD.

If we be firm that gid is ours then we can get rid of it.

see in practical life, when we accept someone APANA (Like father mother bro sis wife), Then we have in our depth that whatever one does can never be for my bad for us.

Similarly with god apanapan is real thing which can solve this prob.

Swamiji in describing sharanagati says nothing more matters as APANAPAN WITH GOD. NO GYAN TAP KARM CAN MATCH IT.

THANX

RAJA Gurdasani

Dear sadaks,Agyanan is the cause. Our past loads of bad Karmas is the cause for AgyananJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------

Ram Ram,

Deosaranji is very much right in his statement. Happiness and sorrow are not the fruit of sins and virtues, the situations (favorable & unfavorable) are. Its fully in our hands to become happy or sorrowful.

Ashok Goenka

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Moderators have asked to share understanding on Swamiji's words of wisdom:"Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues." Already he has explained profoundly in that writeup, it is worth reading again and again.I can only echo what I learned. Situations keep on happening relentlessly in Life, they don't happen personally even if they seem to affect one more than others. Life is unavoidable relationship among each other and with Nature. Nothing ever can happen in isolation. If there is "one", there are necessarily "others" and thinking and actions of "one" affects "others". This results in mass/collective karmas consisting of virtues and sins(papa and punya), and always culminate in impersonal events mistaken by individuals as happy or unhappy personal situations. This is also the Causal Body of Ignorance(of not knowing one's true Nature).A wise is one who takes such situations in strides and remain steadfast in Being only, unaffected by pleasures and pains perceived in them! What helps one to remain in equanimity is the understanding that he is the Witnessing Presence Permeating the body-mind that belongs to Nature; and whatever happens, happens impersonally to Nature, not to the Presence!In Bhaktas, the understanding is Divine Love of Pure Being. His/her entire Being is taken over by this Unconditional Love which he/she calls Bhagwaan!Pure Being of SELF is Divine-Unconditional Love, Love that knows no opposites, and is also at the same time Impersonal Cosmic Intelligence manifest in abundance! God, to me, is Experince(anubhutiroopah) of Pure Being-Consciousness), Divine Love, and Intelligence!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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This knowledge that God has done all good for us although true has come fromoutside. When you only make an attempt to accept an unpleasant experience intotality without dividing it into good and bad, you are on the path of Sadhana.Gradually questions will melt and you will reach first stage of NirvitarkSamadhi. As you practice this acceptance for a longer period,you will experienceinflow of Divine Energy when you are about to breakdown and slowly preliminaryexperience of Nirvichar Samadhi will start. Mind will become more quiet andGod's presence will be felt to an extent.Why such things happen will also beunderstood and you will be on Real Path of Progress. Bahunam Janmanam ante,Gnanwan mam prapadyante. Bhagwad Geeta verse 7/19. Have faith, patience andperseverence and parameter of Tolerance will be developed.This will lead you to Divine experience.Jayantilal Shah

----------Dear sadhakas,Hare krishna. This is in response to a questionFrom a sadhaka regarding happiness and sorrow. Lord krishna says in bhagavad gita " Prakruteh kriyamanani,Gunai karmani sarvasah" ( gita 3, 27"Which means"Activities are carried out by theModes of nature". The three modes of nature are sattva ( goodness), rajoh( passion) , tamo (ignorance). activities continue to happen with or without our involvement. That is the law of nature.Lord krishna says in gita, " Sattvam sukhe sanjayati,Rajah karmani bharata,Jnanam avrutya tu tamah,Pramade sanjayaty uta" ( gita 14, 9)Which means," O son of bharata, mode of goodness causes happiness, passion leads one to fruitive action, and ignorance leads one to madness and danger. "If we want to be happy, we need to be in the mode of goodness. Passion and ignorance do not lead us to happiness. Lord krishna continues,"Karmanah sukrutasyahuh,Sattvikam nirmalam phalam,Rajasas tu phalam dukham,Ajnanam tamasah phalam" ( gita, 14, 16). Which means"Pious activities done in the mode of goodness are pure. Actions done in the mode of passion lead us to misery and,sorrow. Action perormed in the mode of ignorance causes foolishness. "People involved in pious actions are situated in happiness. We are bound by actions. There is no way out. But there is one, as lord krishna says," Mam ca yo vyabhicarena,Bhakti yogena sevate,Sa gunan samatityaitan,Brahma bhuyaya kalpate. "( Gita, 14, 26)Which means," One who is in full devotional service all the time , transcends the modes of this materialism and reaches the level of eternal bliss. "If we want to get out of these modes of nature, devotional service is the answer. Thank you. Hare krishna. Prasad iragavarapu. M. D

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Any number of commentaries on the Bhagvada Geetha is just not enough. The sentiments are so very deep. If one contemplates on the Gita, new and extraordinary sentiments manifest . A man's life changes entirely as he begins to contemplate on these verses.

. ....................................................................Swami Ramsukhdas jee

Ref:

[sadhaka] Glories of Gitaji (Jun 11, 2009)

Dictionary Meaning of Contempolate , Contemplation

1. Contemplate. ........... to meditate ........... ( Collins Dictionary )

2.Contemplation. ....................Religious Mediation( a formof Prayer,in which a person seeks a direct experience of the divine ...........(Oxford dictinary.)

Ah, dear sadhakas, words,words,words ...too many words eclipse the Truth Beyond â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦the silence,which is the womb of the words ... Silence ,which is not the word silence

BUT,is the ISNESS of the word silence ..which just IS

This silence is the ultimate Truth ,the Nothingness

Nothingness ,which is the womb of Everythingness

The Truth....The Real,......The Un-knowable ever known, ...Is God,

Is Krishna .....Is the Way to Krishna

Witness Consciousness is the Way

No Doing, NO treading, just being yourself, the self

Narinder Bhandari

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Hari OmLord Krishna smiles ( Afterall He too is 'sahaj sukhraasi') at the ignorance of His children when we refer to His 'MAYA' as stupidity in BG 7:13/14 ! Let there be deliberations: 'Wisdom vs Ignorance'.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Hari OmSheer stupidity (moorkhata) ! Nothing except stupidity !! Only Stupidity !!! Lord Krishna laughs ( Afterall He too is 'sahaj sukhraasi') at the stupidity only of His children when He calls that stupidity as 'MAYA' in BG 7:13/14 ! But "actually" alone Stupidity !Let there be deliberations: 'Wisdom vs Stupidity'.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B "Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruitsof sins and virtues."Such a statement from a teacher makes perfect sense under certain contexts e.g.when the desciple is carried away by the apparent sins and virtues whileignoring their inherent counterpart - ignorance. The lopsided emphasis in aseeker is often "balanced" by emphasising the ignored opposite by the wiseteacher. I do not think that meant anyway to ignore the sins and virtuesaltogether.But, as we go beyond contexts, I see that ignorance is the seed for all sins(and virtues); and ignorance is the fruit of all sins (and virtues).OR, one can also say,Sins (and virtues) are the seed for ignorance; and sins (and virtues) are thefruits of ignorance.However we see, the two are inseparable. So are the two polarized feelings ofsorrow and happiness. They are inseparable from the sins and virtues which areinseparable from the ignorance as such. They produce each other, they harvesteach other and they devour each other in cycles. Therefore, the second part ofthis statement does not appeal to me.To me ignorance, sins, virtues, happiness, sorrow, etc. are synanymous withconcurrent occurance. As we feel sorrow and happiness, sins and virtues aregenerated and the ignorance is enseeded. As the ignorance pops up, sins andvirtues are churned out and the feelings of sorrow and happines are established.Of course, the opposites such as sins and virtues often appear as different whenone applies the relativity of one's tempermental ego-centric and ego-promotionalattitude toward the same. When ego is active, ignorance itself starts appearingas "knowledge" as well. But, even from the relative perspective, the second partof the statement (seggregation of ignorance from sins and virtues) does notapeal to me personally.Respects.Naga Narayana

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Brothers, Deosaranji pointed out this particular statement from sadhaka postings. What is your understanding of this statement? Do you have any doubts, disagreements with what is being stated?

"Happiness and Sorrow are due to ignorance (stupidity), they are not the fruits of sins and virtues."