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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

NEW POSTING

In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me."

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen--------------

Hari OmSuch a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

----------------------

--------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

NEW POSTING

 

 

 

 

 

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual.

Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).

The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------------------

 

-Shree Hari-Namaste!Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor

-----------

Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

----------

 

Namaste.There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

 

 

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

 

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

 

 

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

 

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

 

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

 

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

 

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

 

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

 

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

 

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

 

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

 

 

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

 

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

 

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season.

 

I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

 

 

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

 

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari Om

 

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

 

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

--------------

God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

----------------------

A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

NEW POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:

Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.

B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'.

Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS.

Ram Ram.

Vineet,

Sarvottam.

 

Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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NamasteExtremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

----------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

----

Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------

In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

--------------

God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

----------------------

A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

NEW POSTING

NamasteSince GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD. Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA. Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS". Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6). Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:

Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?'

Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.

Vineet,

Sarvottam.

---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

----------------------

Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

-

Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

----------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

----

Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------

In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

--------------

God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

----------------------

A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

--------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group.

 

Waiting anxiously.

 

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh

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Jai Shree Krishna

 

Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" !

 

Swami Rupesh Kumar

 

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Radhey ! Radhey !!

 

Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA.

 

We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !!

 

Nisha

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Narain ! Narain !!

 

Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ?

 

Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !!

 

You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath.

 

Narain ! Narain!!

 

Naarad N Maharishi

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram.

Revered Answerers :

Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :

Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.

Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :

Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?' We seek your help in finalizing the search.

 

Ram Ram.

Vineet,

Sarvottam

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How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine.

 

"John Forth"

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being! It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness! So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hari omI have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not. I tell God is not there in ignorance.I go a step further. I dont presence of God in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jai Shree Hari,The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything. May God bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Hello!

 

Jai Manav

There is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible

 

1. Mass

2 Energy

 

Nothing else beyond this.

Ranjankumar

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Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group. Waiting anxiously. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh----------------Jai Shree Krishna Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" ! Swami Rupesh Kumar -------------------------- Radhey ! Radhey !! Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA. We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha---------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ? Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !! You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath. Narain ! Narain!! Naarad N Maharishi---------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

What Paramathuma created is Samasti Shriti upto Sri Bhramaji. In it HE created different combinations of 3 gunas. There after the creation was Vesti Shriti Sri Bhramaji works. It was then the ignorance came in. In Chirstian philosophy and Muslim thoughts there is one called Seten or Sitan (Agynan). Please read Srimath Bagavath and Geetha 10th Chapter with hidden meanings. I will quote sloka, verses details later.

The agynan stands separate as that is the tool that tests all humans to see the purity. Only due to Agynan people become terrorist, cruel, cheaters Etc. The swaroop of Agynan is Ravana, Duryodhan, Kans. There previous Karma is connected to Agynan. I am not fully Gynani. I still have flaws. The level of flaws may very less. Some may have more level of flaws. Only when one comes out of the test as Sant Tukaram said- Kamini and Kanchan, he is divine with God. Scripts are very clear that upto Brahma Lok there is sleep, hunger, and desire. Only Humans have the gift to directly reach Vaikunt or Kailash. Gyan is Swaroop of Bagavan. So agyan cannot be from Bagavan or part of Bagavan. Bagavan has killed so many bad ones that were in Agynan. If Bagavan and Agynan are one, then where is the question of Samhar. The Samhar is to body not to the soul. The Agynan is perishable with the body. So Bagavan removes Agynan from soul and sets it free. Bagavan is called Purushotam, means completely flawless in all aspects. Then Bagavan does have absolutely NO flaw. Only WHO is Purushotam can make other flawless.

Existence (Energy)= M to the power of C (Conversion of matter) Scientifically

Some are dead though they are living says many scripts and saints.

Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness. Other conscience is ignorance in disguise, like to say one is living. Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness. One who fully follows principle of Geetha or Puranas Dharma and lives by it, is consciousness. Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.

Sri Naaradh anger can be felt by Sri Sarvottam. How is it possible? A most minor not traceable amount of Agynan makes one feel the anger.

Negative and positive are not temporary modifications. They are result producers permanently when manifestation takes place and abides in Paramathuma. Any thing on earth or other 13 worlds works only on these two. Only when negative and positive are there bulb light up. There is negative and positive energies in all living things. Once when a person becomes totally positive (Like Adi Sankara- Buddha- Christ) no anger, desires Etc in them. Their energy level radiates to 12 Km radius, as such, by their Dharshan alone one gets to realize.

Pardon me

Jai Sri Krishna

B.sathyanarayan

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

I request Moderators to tell contributors to quote specific teachings of Swamiji in print rather than giving page nos etc as Vineetji has done. If it is a serious study than they must take pains to QUOTE from the books so that all Sadhaks may benefit. By giving page nos of some book and then making categorical remarks of Swamiji teachings being impossible to be wrong will not help westerners to understand. I dont think in any Swamiji's books IT IS CATEGORICALLY stated that in AGYAAN God resides. It must have been in different context. And why... bring Swamiji unless there is need for clarification ? Is not in Gita itself it is written that I AM BEYOND DARKNESS ( BG 13: 17). Read Gita Prabodhani Hindi Page 372 : Swamiji has stated:-

 

Just as in Sun darkness can never come ; in God AGYAAN can never come, it CANNOT come, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COME.

 

I am referring to same Swamiji.... Mr Vineet..... AS IT IS ! Now please kindly share with us the results of your SERIOUS RESEARCH and STUDY as early as possible.

Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!

 

Anirudh Joshi

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Bhagvad Geeta does mention the manifestation Divine in various Natural Phenomenaas detailed in Chapter 10, its central message is how to become Divine.Verse52/2 deals with this: When your intellect comes out of mud of attachment, youwill be able to read the open book of Nature - will not require discourses.Hence what is not God is not the central theme of Geeta. To come out ofattachment is to become God or God-like.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shree Krishna

 

SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only:

 

1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !!

 

2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also.

 

3. There is no God existing in idiots , moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11)

 

4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5 . Is God wrong? There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. He is causing it not residing in it ? What do you say Mr Vineet ?

 

5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! God has stated that He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it?

 

6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA (16:18) ! Any body who has God in Him can He do so, Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ?

 

7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28?

 

I have not scrolled through Entire Gita. Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today.

Swami Rupesh Kumar

 

 

 

 

Narain ! Narain !!

 

No Vineet, Sarvottamji Maharajs ! I was never angry !

 

If I ask you - Iis God not there in SIN? In Stool ? You will not be able to say NO ! Then if I ask you why should not I sin when God is very well in that ? What will you reply? How in that case Gita will be "LIVED" ? How the distinction between 16:1 to 3 and balance chapter 16 will be drawn? If you conclude: There is no God in so and so then your reference of BG 7:19 will be futile. Moreover the biggest fault lies in corelating BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! If all is God who will surrender to whom ? Why? No Vineetji Maharaj ! By telling that you are in surrendered mode only already...nothing will emerge, because then why 18:66 is there in Gita. WHOEVER TALKS ABOUT GITA ONLY INTRODUCES HIS INTELLECT. IN FACT AFTER UNDERSTANDING GITA....... ONE BECOMES SILENT. By the way, Gita is full of verses WHERE LORD HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT HE IS NOT IN THAT OR HE IS BEYOND THAT. I am not narrating because I want you to read yourself. How else will you read Gita otherwise?

 

Narain ! Narain !!

 

Naarad N Maharishi

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there is two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are studying the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, The Bible:1. Mass 2 Energy except these two nothing else

 

Ranjankumar

 

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Shree Hari:Ram Ram.Revered Answerers :Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE. Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?' We seek your help in finalizing the search. Ram Ram.Vineet, Sarvottam--------------- How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine. "John Forth" --- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being! It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness! So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt

Hari om

I have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.

Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.

If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not. I tell God is not there in ignorance.

I go a step further. I dont presence of God in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!

Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Shree Hari,

The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything.

May God bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Hello! Jai ManavThere is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible 1. Mass 2 Energy Nothing else beyond this.Ranjankumar--------

Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group. Waiting anxiously. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh----------------Jai Shree Krishna Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" ! Swami Rupesh Kumar -------------------------- Radhey ! Radhey !! Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA. We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha---------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ? Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !! You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath. Narain ! Narain!! Naarad N Maharishi---------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

-

Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

----

Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

At the Lotus feet

(Obeisance at the lotus feet of Swami Shri Ramsukhdasji this message is being transmitted through a Sadhak)

Your instructions "at the very least test my words and see" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 80); If you do so then I too will undergo a trial and get examined / confirmation of whether what I am saying is Ok or not! I speak from the strength of the Gita. (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 84); that in my practice and reflection I have discovered that which has been inspired by your talks that " Everything is only Bhagwaan" - This is Gita's best of all principles" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 207); "Other than that One Paramatma, nothing has ever manifested at all!" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 221); Rather "There was that one Bhagwaan alone, there is Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).

For this discovery the access and pathway was your discourse "Man's primary duty is to accept the Truth. Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT. This too is the Truth. To accept the Truth as Truth is acceptance of the Truth and to not accept that which is untrue (False) as false, that too is acceptance of the Truth. In essence, there is only one Truth and that is that besides That One Total, in entirety Bhagwaan there is nothing else at all - Vasudeva Sarvam" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 131).

"There is one extraordinary point that by seeing "IS" one does not see the pure, geniune "IS" but by seeing NOT in the form of NOT, the pure "IS" is seen." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 1). The question that was stated in front of over 21,000+ Gita talk sadhaks " State what Gita tells us about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAAN / PARAMAATMAA'? giving quotes from Gita only " in other words "that please reveal what is not Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma?" and what does Gita state regarding this? and to state "only based on what is stated in the Gita." that technique by which in the form of an outcome to accept unreal (UNTRUTH, IS NOT) as "is not" and to accept Real "IS, TRUTH" as "IS". The answer / explanation to this has been presented by many sadhaks that are very thoughtful and with deep inquiry, but in all these there was not that answer which indicated that there is no Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma. That "Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma" that is not there, that can be known when one first knows what that essence of Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma really is? That "IS" (Existence, Truth) is only One. That element "IS-ness" cannot be described, because it is not the subject of the mind, intellect and speech" and "where there is description of That, there is no Essence (tattva) and where there IS the Essence (tattva), there is no description." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 58), "Through use of words, Essence (tattva) cannot be described. and as such the Essence neither Non-existent (IS-NOT) nor Existent (IS). And this sadhaks "Essence" tattva is in reality spoken off by comparing with "non-existence", therefore what name to call it? there is no name for it, in other words no words are capable of reaching it." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 60), and this Essence (tattva) is in reality of the form of transcendental experience (anubhav) and "When non-existent, unreal is accepted as non-existent, then Essence in the form of Existence naturally remains AS-IS (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 61). In other words - "Vasudeva Sarvam"

Since you pointed out to explain, thus this was uncovered, and besides this the 21,000+ sadhaks are now independent in bringing out opposing points to this one. Has any thing been attained? Your strength is the Gita and my strength. It is you alone. This has been shared only due to Bhagwaan's grace. VineetSarvottam

Again to all sadhak, I join my hands and pray that absorb the essence of this message, and anything that is not essential consider it a mistake in my understanding and forget it, as I am a toy filled with flaws. Vineet Sarvottam---------------

Hari Om

You are right Dear John Forth ! Welcome ! In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it? If "something" is not existing at all except in ignorance ; how God can be there in that ? Does river in a desert caused by mirage exist ? How can God be in that river which appears only to deer but exists not in a desert ? Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?

Therefore, in asat (false- what you call to be "temporary modification" ) the existence of God is denied by Gita ! He might have been the cause of the same, the master of the same, the creator of the same, the controller of the same, the owner of the same but He cant be said to be "existing" in the same/ "residing" in the same. Chaos shall emerge if that stand is taken. Hence Gita is very remarkably cautious, specific and categorical on this. Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji has precisely brought out the difference for benefit of humanity at large. Because the very ASAT is actually non existent. It only "appears to be existing" due to ignorance.

Clear, Sir? Come back should you need more elucidation. Follow particularly this thread with special attention. A lot of clarity will emerge out of deliberations.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B ------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Vineetji, in Gita, or in Vedanta, one cannot find any suggestion to say what is not God.If one says "this is not God, then the person who says IS conscious being (Hindi:Uska Hona). That which he calls not God, also has the being, even if it is illusion, it has being! Now see the beauty, when one says "This is not God", one already has acknowledged "this IS" and so God is already in its ISness, in its being whatever it IS. God is smiling when we call any object by a name! This proves the impossibility of experiencing what is not God if Being(honapan) is seen as God which IS true. That is why, perhaps, Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, it is only veiled by our ignorance!Next we need to prove this Being is only ONE Reality of all beings, because then we can prove a being cannot be destroyed even when a being is seemingly destroyed!A particular name/form disappears, then it still IS in another form. A Seed, combined with water, sunlight, earth, intelligence that plants it etc all become tree! Tree gets back to great elements, and great elements derive their being from "I" or "ME" as Awareful Being(Krishnaji uses "ME" for Himself to mean this). And Awareness IS ever IS. So it is easy to see Being is ONE manifesting as many, and can never go out of beingness!(Nabhavo vidyate satah: BG 2:16). Divinity-God-Supreme Consciousness-Unmanifest is vibrantly expressing through all manifest sentients and in-sentients, alike as THE EXISTENCE. But we get tangled up in names/forms only! Everything is rooted in ONE Tree, with branches, leaves, trunk, buds, flowers. It is this Connectedness of ONE Immprtal BEING that we call GOD!Thus everything one sees is in God, as God, for God, from God, to God!This is the hint Vineetji may be giving us for Vasudeva sarvam iti!

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt------------------ Basudeb SenShrastra (Creator) and Shistri (Creation) cannot be distinguished into two. If one tries to do so, it will be difficult to arrive at the Creator as the question will arise ad infinitum as to who created the Creator at any stage. Therefore, the Creator and the Creation has to be the same logically. If God is who has created everything, then he must be everything in creation. So, everything that existed, exits or will exist in future is God. The existence of non-God is impossible.Assume that X is non-God. But X is the creation of something. God being the only creator or source of everything, X , as part of the creation, is created by God. But the creator and the creation being the same, X has to be God. So, the assumption of X being non-God is logically false.You may question how can God be everything - both good and evil, right and wrong, Sun and the moon, Day and night, Saint and thief, human and animal - all at the same time? This question arises because of ego and attachment to forms. Once the ego is gone and attachment to forms disappear from mind one can realize that unless the creator allowed all these opposites cannot co-exist.So, the answer to your question is there is nothing that is not God. In Gita, read Biswarup Darshan portion where Arjun is able to see everything in Lord Krishna when Lord grants him Divine Vision and his illusion of distiguishinh different forms temporarily disappears.Basudeb Sen-----

Hari Om

The message of Vasudev Sathyanarainji is one of the best messages I have ever read on this Divine Forum. My Pranaams to him. You are absolutely right, Sir ! Absolutely based on sound knowledge of the Scriptures and of Holy Gita.

I bow to you, Sir, from deep within.

In fact you have precisely addressed one of the four corner riddles presented by Holy Gita in 7:12/9:4-5. (They are not in Me, I am not in them) ! Another corner is BG 9:19 (I am both Sat and Asat) !! 3rd corner is BG 13:12/ 11:37 (He is neither Sat nor Asat. ... You are beyond Sat and Asat ) !! 4th corner is BG 2:16 (There is no existence of Asat; there is no absence of Sat).

And then is BG 7:19 -All is God. Later on: There is God Only !!

Your message imparts a lesson to all. Gita has infinite bhavas. The aforesaid four corners of riddle, in my humble view, are stages by which you understand Holy Gita. When you reach ... 7:19, you become SILENT.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---------- Jai Hanuman

Congratulations Divine Sadhaks for providing real sattwik heights to Satsanga in this thread ! All responses are absolutely SAT. Rupeshji, Naaradji, Jayantilalji, Ranjankumarji and Anirudhji - right you are, absolutely right ! Brother Sathyanarainji ! Beautiful, Brother ! Really Divine ! Oye Tussi Great Ho Jee! We are privileged to be in your company, Sathyanarainji!

Infinite are the rays of knowledge emanating from Gitaji ! It is one of the most intriguing puzzles/challenges if somebody reads Gita on the strength of his/her intellect or mind or ego or sense of having understood it. It is Divine voice, after all. It can prove all to be right and all to be wrong ! It did not spare even Arjuna when he was under "ignorance" mode. Everything spoken by him in Gita has been ruthlessly and unceremoniously dismissed by Lord Krishna. That is how Gita works. No body can boast to own it. Gita is a master in itself. Surrender to it and it becomes your greatest friend.

Namaste Jee

Jee JeeShashikala

 

--------------PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

What Paramathuma created is Samasti Shriti upto Sri Bhramaji. In it HE created different combinations of 3 gunas. There after the creation was Vesti Shriti Sri Bhramaji works. It was then the ignorance came in. In Chirstian philosophy and Muslim thoughts there is one called Seten or Sitan (Agynan). Please read Srimath Bagavath and Geetha 10th Chapter with hidden meanings. I will quote sloka, verses details later.

The agynan stands separate as that is the tool that tests all humans to see the purity. Only due to Agynan people become terrorist, cruel, cheaters Etc. The swaroop of Agynan is Ravana, Duryodhan, Kans. There previous Karma is connected to Agynan. I am not fully Gynani. I still have flaws. The level of flaws may very less. Some may have more level of flaws. Only when one comes out of the test as Sant Tukaram said- Kamini and Kanchan, he is divine with God. Scripts are very clear that upto Brahma Lok there is sleep, hunger, and desire. Only Humans have the gift to directly reach Vaikunt or Kailash. Gyan is Swaroop of Bagavan. So agyan cannot be from Bagavan or part of Bagavan. Bagavan has killed so many bad ones that were in Agynan. If Bagavan and Agynan are one, then where is the question of Samhar. The Samhar is to body not to the soul. The Agynan is perishable with the body. So Bagavan removes Agynan from soul and sets it free. Bagavan is called Purushotam, means completely flawless in all aspects. Then Bagavan does have absolutely NO flaw. Only WHO is Purushotam can make other flawless.

Existence (Energy)= M to the power of C (Conversion of matter) Scientifically

Some are dead though they are living says many scripts and saints.

Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness. Other conscience is ignorance in disguise, like to say one is living. Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness. One who fully follows principle of Geetha or Puranas Dharma and lives by it, is consciousness. Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.

Sri Naaradh anger can be felt by Sri Sarvottam. How is it possible? A most minor not traceable amount of Agynan makes one feel the anger.

Negative and positive are not temporary modifications. They are result producers permanently when manifestation takes place and abides in Paramathuma. Any thing on earth or other 13 worlds works only on these two. Only when negative and positive are there bulb light up. There is negative and positive energies in all living things. Once when a person becomes totally positive (Like Adi Sankara- Buddha- Christ) no anger, desires Etc in them. Their energy level radiates to 12 Km radius, as such, by their Dharshan alone one gets to realize.

Pardon me

Jai Sri Krishna

B.sathyanarayan

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! I request Moderators to tell contributors to quote specific teachings of Swamiji in print rather than giving page nos etc as Vineetji has done. If it is a serious study than they must take pains to QUOTE from the books so that all Sadhaks may benefit. By giving page nos of some book and then making categorical remarks of Swamiji teachings being impossible to be wrong will not help westerners to understand. I dont think in any Swamiji's books IT IS CATEGORICALLY stated that in AGYAAN God resides. It must have been in different context. And why... bring Swamiji unless there is need for clarification ? Is not in Gita itself it is written that I AM BEYOND DARKNESS ( BG 13: 17). Read Gita Prabodhani Hindi Page 372 : Swamiji has stated:- Just as in Sun darkness can never come ; in God AGYAAN can never come, it CANNOT come, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COME. I am referring to same Swamiji.... Mr Vineet..... AS IT IS ! Now please kindly share with us the results of your SERIOUS RESEARCH and STUDY as early as possible. Raam! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi-----------Bhagvad Geeta does mention the manifestation Divine in various Natural Phenomenaas detailed in Chapter 10, its central message is how to become Divine.Verse52/2 deals with this: When your intellect comes out of mud of attachment, youwill be able to read the open book of Nature - will not require discourses.Hence what is not God is not the central theme of Geeta. To come out ofattachment is to become God or God-like.Jayantilal Shah

----------------------Jai Shree Krishna SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only: 1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !! 2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also. 3. There is no God existing in idiots , moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11) 4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5 . Is God wrong? There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. He is causing it not residing in it ? What do you say Mr Vineet ? 5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! God has stated that He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it? 6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA (16:18) ! Any body who has God in Him can He do so, Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ? 7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28? I have not scrolled through Entire Gita. Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today. Swami Rupesh Kumar Narain ! Narain !! No Vineet, Sarvottamji Maharajs ! I was never angry ! If I ask you - Iis God not there in SIN? In Stool ? You will not be able to say NO ! Then if I ask you why should not I sin when God is very well in that ? What will you reply? How in that case Gita will be "LIVED" ? How the distinction between 16:1 to 3 and balance chapter 16 will be drawn? If you conclude: There is no God in so and so then your reference of BG 7:19 will be futile. Moreover the biggest fault lies in corelating BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! If all is God who will surrender to whom ? Why? No Vineetji Maharaj ! By telling that you are in surrendered mode only already...nothing will emerge, because then why 18:66 is there in Gita. WHOEVER TALKS ABOUT GITA ONLY INTRODUCES HIS INTELLECT. IN FACT AFTER UNDERSTANDING GITA....... ONE BECOMES SILENT. By the way, Gita is full of verses WHERE LORD HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT HE IS NOT IN THAT OR HE IS BEYOND THAT. I am not narrating because I want you to read yourself. How else will you read Gita otherwise? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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there is two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are studying the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, The Bible:1. Mass 2 Energy except these two nothing else Ranjankumar ------------- --------------------

Shree Hari:Ram Ram.Revered Answerers :Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE. Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?' We seek your help in finalizing the search. Ram Ram.Vineet, Sarvottam--------------- How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine. "John Forth" --- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being! It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness! So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt

Hari om

I have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.

Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.

If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not. I tell God is not there in ignorance.

I go a step further. I dont presence of God in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!

Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Shree Hari,

The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything.

May God bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Hello! Jai ManavThere is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible 1. Mass 2 Energy Nothing else beyond this.Ranjankumar--------

Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group. Waiting anxiously. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh----------------Jai Shree Krishna Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" ! Swami Rupesh Kumar -------------------------- Radhey ! Radhey !! Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA. We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha---------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ? Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !! You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath. Narain ! Narain!! Naarad N Maharishi---------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

NARAYAN NARAYN,

That which cannot be comprehended by this intellect, that which cannot be understood, but yet is the Truth. THe shortcomings are in our understanding, not in the Essence (Divinity), therefore the Truth, will ever rise, it will not diminish. With practice and study one cannot realize this, because this practice takes place with the inert (jad), as without the body, mind, intellect, senses, practice and effort cannot take place. With the inert, one cannot attain the conscious, the sentient. Sentient can only be attained by the sentient. With the inert body etc. only the worldly work can get done. Paramatma we have to only beleive, we have to only accept. Because just like there is Gangaji, what practice and effort is needed to know that this is Gangaji. If you accepts that everything is Paramatma then the sentiments that this is the world will be wiped out and only Paramatma will remain, that is already ever present in ever pour, every particle, every being, every where. .....

I bow to this ever merciful over and over again.

[RAMCHANDRA]

IN HINDI HAMARI BHUDHI ME NA AAYE , SAMAZ ME NA AAYE PER BAAT THO SACHI HEIN KAMI HAMAREME HEIN. TATAV ME NAHI. ESLIYE SACHI BAAT BEDHEGI HATEGI NAHI. ABHYAS SE ANUBHAVNAHI HO TA KYOKI ABHYAS JAD SE HO TA HEIN.SHARIR,INDRIYA , MAN, BUDHI,KE BINA ABHYAS NAHI HO TA , JAD SE CHETAN KIPRAPTI NAHI HOTI. CHETAN KI PRAPTI CHETAN SE HO TI HEIN.JAD SE SHANSARIK KAMHOTA HEIN."PARMATMA KO KEVAL MANNA HEIN" SHAWIKAR KARNA HEIN. KYOKI YEH THO ESHA HEIN "JAISE YE GANGAJI HEIN -ESME ABHYASH KYA HEIN.SAB KUCH PARMATMA HE HEIN-YEH SHAWIKAR KARLO THO SHANSAR HEIN-YEH BHAVANA MIT JAYEGI. OUR PARMATMARAHGAYEJE. JO KI VASTAV ME HEIN."ROM ROM PRATI LAGE KOTI KOTI BRAHMAND"HARI KI LEELA BADI APARBANGAYE AAP AKELE SAB KUCH, NAAM DHARA SHANSARMAAT PITA GURU SWAMI BANKER KARE DAANT FATKARSUT DHARA ARU SEVAK BANKER KHUB KARE SATKARKABHI ROG KA ROOP BANAKAR BANTE AAP BUKHARKABHI VED BAN DAVA KHILATE AAP KARE UPCHRKABHI BHOG SUKH MAN BADHAI HAJIR ME NAR NARKABHI DUKHO KA PAHAD PATAKTE MACHTI HAHAKARKABHI SANT BANKAR JEEVO PER KIRPA DHARSTI VISTARANGINAT JANMO KA DUKH SHANKAT CHAN ME DEVE TARKABHI DHARNI PER SANTAN KE HET DHAR MANUSH AVTARAJAB ANOKHI LEELA KARTE SUMIRAT HO BHAV PARANGINAT SWANG RACHATE HERDAM DHANYA BADE SARKARESE PARAM KIRPALU PRABHU KO VINTI BA-RAM-BAR[RAMCHANDRA]

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!As learned sadhakas say, this is divine satsang. We appear to reflect different views in our deliberations about God is present or not in ignorance, negativity etc. We may be saying same in different words we use, I hope!I think the question is What is not God, rather than God is or is not in something!As we all know God, the Infinite Absolute Existence cannot be contained in finite objects but all objects are within Him or they don't exist. If anything is manifest existence, it already is fundamentally God Unmanifest. It is already too late to call it a non-existence. Non-existence cannot be perceived, like son of a barren woman, says Vedanta! We are talking about Being-Existence, in this context, not what that existence appears as, good or bad, has God in it or not! If Being is not cognized as God in anything perceived, desires, attachments are just waiting there!As Vineetji has put it, this is also what Swamiji says to explain "Vasudeva sarvam".There is Sat and then there is false-mithya(Sat appearing as names/forms). Asat is out of question being non-existence! Where one finds Mithya, only there one finds Sat-Existence absolute! Ignorance and negatives are such false superimposed on Sat.Whatever objects allegedly devoid of God need "ME", the Conscious-Being to validate their existence, so they are not independent Reality! The world as we commonly know is not independently experienced! No one has ever! The world in reality IS God(Ishwara), only separate objects are mithyas!Mirage is my own imagination, but in Truth it is whatever it IS. Can it exist without Sat of sand and Sunlight? So mirage doesnt exist independently from Sat! Can a reflection be there without mirror and light reflected by object? Can circle be seen without a fan running? What appears as circle is Fan all the way as it was before circle, during circle, and after the circle ceases to be! Seeing circle is illusion, but once it is known it is Fan, it cannot bind us, rather is useful! Illusion has ended, not the being of a fan!Gita's message is to see God-Sat in all that which appears as Mithya, and not get attached to names/forms. This is the Beauty of its teaching! We need to go beyond saying "God is not in Ignorance", it is not even discussion Vineetji started as I see it. In summary, Ignorance or any attributes on Sat is false, that is why we can Realize God, the only Sat, otherwise Ignorance, if it did exist independently from God, it cannot end. Thus wherever mithya is, there and only there, Sat is, God is! In light of this understanding(only Vidya, the rest is avidya), anything gets resolved in God! Vasudevah sarvamiti! ..........Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadaks,

("There was that one Bhagwaan alone, there is Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT.) (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).) said by a sadak. In the beginning God alone existed, then manifestation of Leela Vibuthi, then after MAHA Pralaya only God remains. World is Maya crated by Bramaji. Once Bramaji life span ends, the world ceases to exist and abides in Paramathuma. But Sadaks my understanding is that only through this world of experience and behavior one can reach GOD. So the body and the supporting system world are essential per my understanding. Many Gandervas, Kinkaras, even Naradh had to come to this earth to wash away their karmas. Everything manifests and abides in Paramathuma for some reason.

Another fact, Paramathuma IS and the world is also there as leela vibuthi. The world changes according to yugas and Karmas, but NOT Paramathuma. To understand the illusive world is a test or exams for man to elevate or keep in birth and death circle. That is the Truth. Example: Sidheswar of Sholapur jumped of cliff as he failed to see GOD. The karma (Action) jumping to death is paid by Bagavan lifting him up from falling and gave him Dharshan. Bakth Gora chopped his hands just for promise on Vital. God definitely knew Gora has the ability of Bakthi to chop his hands. But God waited for the Karma to happen and served him. Later GOD gave his hands and the dead child.

Our respectable Sri Vyasji says, "Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?"

You exist and mirror show your face. The fan exists and circle appears only when Fan runs. World exist and shape of world being round shows horizon. You are Athuman- the mirror is reflection. Fan is object and circle is illusion of your eyes which registers any movements in frames that brain takes in. The Athuman is the power behind brain function fan and circles are objects. So is world as example. Once the objects are not getting registered in mind, then GOD alone appears. Bible says, "Empty thyself and I (God) shall fill in"

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is so important that we must share points that seem different than learned Sadhakas!This is to see where we differ if at all we do!Vyasji says on John Forth's response "In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it?". With all the respect to him, I humbly submit that "whatever" exists is God. God cannot be dependent on something to exist first, something needs God to give it a freedom to exist as whatever name which is false anyway! John correctly points that temporary modifications happen in God(Divine), temporary modifications being mithya-false, (not asat which is ever non-existence)! God remains untouched even as "a thing" perish away to be another form/name! Names and forms are God's hide and seek game! He continues to play as long as He wants to, and then he throws them away and Realizes Himself in the form of Swamiji, for example!God is the cause manifesting as effect in the world. Basudebji has also explained it nicely this way as I understand!With equally great respect I would say to Sathyanarayanji when he says "Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness."Only when one understands "Consciousness" deeply, experientially, one fulfills his purpose on this earth. I hope sadhakas see this in the spirit, I am saying and not just discard by saying "oh, Pratap is saying this same thing over and over!" Isn't it wonderful to answer all one's questions by just repeating the name of God!When one understands Being(Atman) Is Consciousness IS God, and all there is as ONE Experience, nothing else remains to be known!Conscience is not Consciousness in this context, please!Then he says "Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness."Let alone tree and animal etc, all there is, IS Consciousness". (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman), says Vedanta! Then he says "Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.". Right you are! Being with Sat is Knowing, because knowing is Being too! That which you are, you have forgotten, so to remind, you have to know who you are, you have to remove ignorance by Divine Grace, by hearing Truth from the lips of Gyani-Guru, such as Swamiji! Surrender(acceptance) happens in Understanding, not by ego-individual's effort!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Shri Hari Ram Ram, By fact there are two diffrent entities: (God=Bhagwan) and (Kudarat =Scintific Circumstantial evidences=The Vyavysthit Shakti/force/power). In our lokik world, we interchange or exchange the usages of two words: God=Bhagwan and Kudarat. We have the concept that GOD is the doer, creator, and goes favor to his Devotees. For example, the role of Shri Krishna in Maha-Bharat. This is the general concept prevailing in the society/community. This things are just beliefs, but are not facts. Everything is happening around us are due to the presence of Kudarat, in its natural/destined ways. We are feeling/experiencing the effects of these destined Scientific Circumstantial evidences (your presence or you are one of the evedences in happening around you. In other words, my presence or I am one of the evidences in hapening around me, the outcomes that I have craeted earlier but I have forgotten now). This is how the Kudarat/nature funcions around everyone.The roles of Shri Krishna, Bhishma-Pitamah, Duryodhan, Karna, and others in Mahabharat are by their desires, expectations, and commitments to their beliefs. The GOD (the omniscientiest person) is completely different from Kudarat. God does not involve or interfere with what is going on in the society, community, or in nation. If HE does interefere or involve then 'Everybody should be happy as they are created equal and have the same amenities and wealth.' In fact, the GOD is within each of us and is the same in each and every individual. The GOD present in each of us is not fully enlightened or not fully 100% self-realized. If it is fully 100% self-realized, then it becomes 'Omniscientiest: knower of ecah and evrything (past/future/presence) in the universe. The Atma within each of us is parmatma, if it is fully 100% self-realized. There are very few 100% FULLY REALIZED PERSONS/Paramatma-Conscious in the universe, who are able to enlighten others. Jashwant Shah

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

At the Lotus feet

(Obeisance at the lotus feet of Swami Shri Ramsukhdasji this message is being transmitted through a Sadhak)

Your instructions "at the very least test my words and see" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 80); If you do so then I too will undergo a trial and get examined / confirmation of whether what I am saying is Ok or not! I speak from the strength of the Gita. (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 84); that in my practice and reflection I have discovered that which has been inspired by your talks that " Everything is only Bhagwaan" - This is Gita's best of all principles" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 207); "Other than that One Paramatma, nothing has ever manifested at all!" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 221); Rather "There was that one Bhagwaan alone, there is Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).

For this discovery the access and pathway was your discourse "Man's primary duty is to accept the Truth. Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT. This too is the Truth. To accept the Truth as Truth is acceptance of the Truth and to not accept that which is untrue (False) as false, that too is acceptance of the Truth. In essence, there is only one Truth and that is that besides That One Total, in entirety Bhagwaan there is nothing else at all - Vasudeva Sarvam" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 131).

"There is one extraordinary point that by seeing "IS" one does not see the pure, geniune "IS" but by seeing NOT in the form of NOT, the pure "IS" is seen." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 1). The question that was stated in front of over 21,000+ Gita talk sadhaks " State what Gita tells us about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAAN / PARAMAATMAA'? giving quotes from Gita only " in other words "that please reveal what is not Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma?" and what does Gita state regarding this? and to state "only based on what is stated in the Gita." that technique by which in the form of an outcome to accept unreal (UNTRUTH, IS NOT) as "is not" and to accept Real "IS, TRUTH" as "IS". The answer / explanation to this has been presented by many sadhaks that are very thoughtful and with deep inquiry, but in all these there was not that answer which indicated that there is no Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma. That "Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma" that is not there, that can be known when one first knows what that essence of Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma really is? That "IS" (Existence, Truth) is only One. That element "IS-ness" cannot be described, because it is not the subject of the mind, intellect and speech" and "where there is description of That, there is no Essence (tattva) and where there IS the Essence (tattva), there is no description." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 58), "Through use of words, Essence (tattva) cannot be described. and as such the Essence neither Non-existent (IS-NOT) nor Existent (IS). And this sadhaks "Essence" tattva is in reality spoken off by comparing with "non-existence", therefore what name to call it? there is no name for it, in other words no words are capable of reaching it." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 60), and this Essence (tattva) is in reality of the form of transcendental experience (anubhav) and "When non-existent, unreal is accepted as non-existent, then Essence in the form of Existence naturally remains AS-IS (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 61). In other words - "Vasudeva Sarvam"

Since you pointed out to explain, thus this was uncovered, and besides this the 21,000+ sadhaks are now independent in bringing out opposing points to this one. Has any thing been attained? Your strength is the Gita and my strength. It is you alone. This has been shared only due to Bhagwaan's grace. VineetSarvottam

Again to all sadhak, I join my hands and pray that absorb the essence of this message, and anything that is not essential consider it a mistake in my understanding and forget it, as I am a toy filled with flaws. Vineet Sarvottam---------------

Hari Om

You are right Dear John Forth ! Welcome ! In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it? If "something" is not existing at all except in ignorance ; how God can be there in that ? Does river in a desert caused by mirage exist ? How can God be in that river which appears only to deer but exists not in a desert ? Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?

Therefore, in asat (false- what you call to be "temporary modification" ) the existence of God is denied by Gita ! He might have been the cause of the same, the master of the same, the creator of the same, the controller of the same, the owner of the same but He cant be said to be "existing" in the same/ "residing" in the same. Chaos shall emerge if that stand is taken. Hence Gita is very remarkably cautious, specific and categorical on this. Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji has precisely brought out the difference for benefit of humanity at large. Because the very ASAT is actually non existent. It only "appears to be existing" due to ignorance.

Clear, Sir? Come back should you need more elucidation. Follow particularly this thread with special attention. A lot of clarity will emerge out of deliberations.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B ------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Vineetji, in Gita, or in Vedanta, one cannot find any suggestion to say what is not God.If one says "this is not God, then the person who says IS conscious being (Hindi:Uska Hona). That which he calls not God, also has the being, even if it is illusion, it has being! Now see the beauty, when one says "This is not God", one already has acknowledged "this IS" and so God is already in its ISness, in its being whatever it IS. God is smiling when we call any object by a name! This proves the impossibility of experiencing what is not God if Being(honapan) is seen as God which IS true. That is why, perhaps, Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, it is only veiled by our ignorance!Next we need to prove this Being is only ONE Reality of all beings, because then we can prove a being cannot be destroyed even when a being is seemingly destroyed!A particular name/form disappears, then it still IS in another form. A Seed, combined with water, sunlight, earth, intelligence that plants it etc all become tree! Tree gets back to great elements, and great elements derive their being from "I" or "ME" as Awareful Being(Krishnaji uses "ME" for Himself to mean this). And Awareness IS ever IS. So it is easy to see Being is ONE manifesting as many, and can never go out of beingness!(Nabhavo vidyate satah: BG 2:16). Divinity-God-Supreme Consciousness-Unmanifest is vibrantly expressing through all manifest sentients and in-sentients, alike as THE EXISTENCE. But we get tangled up in names/forms only! Everything is rooted in ONE Tree, with branches, leaves, trunk, buds, flowers. It is this Connectedness of ONE Immprtal BEING that we call GOD!Thus everything one sees is in God, as God, for God, from God, to God!This is the hint Vineetji may be giving us for Vasudeva sarvam iti!

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt------------------ Basudeb SenShrastra (Creator) and Shistri (Creation) cannot be distinguished into two. If one tries to do so, it will be difficult to arrive at the Creator as the question will arise ad infinitum as to who created the Creator at any stage. Therefore, the Creator and the Creation has to be the same logically. If God is who has created everything, then he must be everything in creation. So, everything that existed, exits or will exist in future is God. The existence of non-God is impossible.Assume that X is non-God. But X is the creation of something. God being the only creator or source of everything, X , as part of the creation, is created by God. But the creator and the creation being the same, X has to be God. So, the assumption of X being non-God is logically false.You may question how can God be everything - both good and evil, right and wrong, Sun and the moon, Day and night, Saint and thief, human and animal - all at the same time? This question arises because of ego and attachment to forms. Once the ego is gone and attachment to forms disappear from mind one can realize that unless the creator allowed all these opposites cannot co-exist.So, the answer to your question is there is nothing that is not God. In Gita, read Biswarup Darshan portion where Arjun is able to see everything in Lord Krishna when Lord grants him Divine Vision and his illusion of distiguishinh different forms temporarily disappears.Basudeb Sen-----

Hari Om

The message of Vasudev Sathyanarainji is one of the best messages I have ever read on this Divine Forum. My Pranaams to him. You are absolutely right, Sir ! Absolutely based on sound knowledge of the Scriptures and of Holy Gita.

I bow to you, Sir, from deep within.

In fact you have precisely addressed one of the four corner riddles presented by Holy Gita in 7:12/9:4-5. (They are not in Me, I am not in them) ! Another corner is BG 9:19 (I am both Sat and Asat) !! 3rd corner is BG 13:12/ 11:37 (He is neither Sat nor Asat. ... You are beyond Sat and Asat ) !! 4th corner is BG 2:16 (There is no existence of Asat; there is no absence of Sat).

And then is BG 7:19 -All is God. Later on: There is God Only !!

Your message imparts a lesson to all. Gita has infinite bhavas. The aforesaid four corners of riddle, in my humble view, are stages by which you understand Holy Gita. When you reach ... 7:19, you become SILENT.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---------- Jai Hanuman

Congratulations Divine Sadhaks for providing real sattwik heights to Satsanga in this thread ! All responses are absolutely SAT. Rupeshji, Naaradji, Jayantilalji, Ranjankumarji and Anirudhji - right you are, absolutely right ! Brother Sathyanarainji ! Beautiful, Brother ! Really Divine ! Oye Tussi Great Ho Jee! We are privileged to be in your company, Sathyanarainji!

Infinite are the rays of knowledge emanating from Gitaji ! It is one of the most intriguing puzzles/challenges if somebody reads Gita on the strength of his/her intellect or mind or ego or sense of having understood it. It is Divine voice, after all. It can prove all to be right and all to be wrong ! It did not spare even Arjuna when he was under "ignorance" mode. Everything spoken by him in Gita has been ruthlessly and unceremoniously dismissed by Lord Krishna. That is how Gita works. No body can boast to own it. Gita is a master in itself. Surrender to it and it becomes your greatest friend.

Namaste Jee

Jee JeeShashikala

 

--------------PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

What Paramathuma created is Samasti Shriti upto Sri Bhramaji. In it HE created different combinations of 3 gunas. There after the creation was Vesti Shriti Sri Bhramaji works. It was then the ignorance came in. In Chirstian philosophy and Muslim thoughts there is one called Seten or Sitan (Agynan). Please read Srimath Bagavath and Geetha 10th Chapter with hidden meanings. I will quote sloka, verses details later.

The agynan stands separate as that is the tool that tests all humans to see the purity. Only due to Agynan people become terrorist, cruel, cheaters Etc. The swaroop of Agynan is Ravana, Duryodhan, Kans. There previous Karma is connected to Agynan. I am not fully Gynani. I still have flaws. The level of flaws may very less. Some may have more level of flaws. Only when one comes out of the test as Sant Tukaram said- Kamini and Kanchan, he is divine with God. Scripts are very clear that upto Brahma Lok there is sleep, hunger, and desire. Only Humans have the gift to directly reach Vaikunt or Kailash. Gyan is Swaroop of Bagavan. So agyan cannot be from Bagavan or part of Bagavan. Bagavan has killed so many bad ones that were in Agynan. If Bagavan and Agynan are one, then where is the question of Samhar. The Samhar is to body not to the soul. The Agynan is perishable with the body. So Bagavan removes Agynan from soul and sets it free. Bagavan is called Purushotam, means completely flawless in all aspects. Then Bagavan does have absolutely NO flaw. Only WHO is Purushotam can make other flawless.

Existence (Energy)= M to the power of C (Conversion of matter) Scientifically

Some are dead though they are living says many scripts and saints.

Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness. Other conscience is ignorance in disguise, like to say one is living. Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness. One who fully follows principle of Geetha or Puranas Dharma and lives by it, is consciousness. Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.

Sri Naaradh anger can be felt by Sri Sarvottam. How is it possible? A most minor not traceable amount of Agynan makes one feel the anger.

Negative and positive are not temporary modifications. They are result producers permanently when manifestation takes place and abides in Paramathuma. Any thing on earth or other 13 worlds works only on these two. Only when negative and positive are there bulb light up. There is negative and positive energies in all living things. Once when a person becomes totally positive (Like Adi Sankara- Buddha- Christ) no anger, desires Etc in them. Their energy level radiates to 12 Km radius, as such, by their Dharshan alone one gets to realize.

Pardon me

Jai Sri Krishna

B.sathyanarayan

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! I request Moderators to tell contributors to quote specific teachings of Swamiji in print rather than giving page nos etc as Vineetji has done. If it is a serious study than they must take pains to QUOTE from the books so that all Sadhaks may benefit. By giving page nos of some book and then making categorical remarks of Swamiji teachings being impossible to be wrong will not help westerners to understand. I dont think in any Swamiji's books IT IS CATEGORICALLY stated that in AGYAAN God resides. It must have been in different context. And why... bring Swamiji unless there is need for clarification ? Is not in Gita itself it is written that I AM BEYOND DARKNESS ( BG 13: 17). Read Gita Prabodhani Hindi Page 372 : Swamiji has stated:- Just as in Sun darkness can never come ; in God AGYAAN can never come, it CANNOT come, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COME. I am referring to same Swamiji.... Mr Vineet..... AS IT IS ! Now please kindly share with us the results of your SERIOUS RESEARCH and STUDY as early as possible. Raam! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi-----------Bhagvad Geeta does mention the manifestation Divine in various Natural Phenomenaas detailed in Chapter 10, its central message is how to become Divine.Verse52/2 deals with this: When your intellect comes out of mud of attachment, youwill be able to read the open book of Nature - will not require discourses.Hence what is not God is not the central theme of Geeta. To come out ofattachment is to become God or God-like.Jayantilal Shah

----------------------Jai Shree Krishna SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only: 1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !! 2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also. 3. There is no God existing in idiots , moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11) 4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5 . Is God wrong? There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. He is causing it not residing in it ? What do you say Mr Vineet ? 5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! God has stated that He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it? 6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA (16:18) ! Any body who has God in Him can He do so, Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ? 7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28? I have not scrolled through Entire Gita. Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today. Swami Rupesh Kumar Narain ! Narain !! No Vineet, Sarvottamji Maharajs ! I was never angry ! If I ask you - Iis God not there in SIN? In Stool ? You will not be able to say NO ! Then if I ask you why should not I sin when God is very well in that ? What will you reply? How in that case Gita will be "LIVED" ? How the distinction between 16:1 to 3 and balance chapter 16 will be drawn? If you conclude: There is no God in so and so then your reference of BG 7:19 will be futile. Moreover the biggest fault lies in corelating BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! If all is God who will surrender to whom ? Why? No Vineetji Maharaj ! By telling that you are in surrendered mode only already...nothing will emerge, because then why 18:66 is there in Gita. WHOEVER TALKS ABOUT GITA ONLY INTRODUCES HIS INTELLECT. IN FACT AFTER UNDERSTANDING GITA....... ONE BECOMES SILENT. By the way, Gita is full of verses WHERE LORD HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT HE IS NOT IN THAT OR HE IS BEYOND THAT. I am not narrating because I want you to read yourself. How else will you read Gita otherwise? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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there is two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are studying the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, The Bible:1. Mass 2 Energy except these two nothing else Ranjankumar ------------- --------------------

Shree Hari:Ram Ram.Revered Answerers :Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE. Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?' We seek your help in finalizing the search. Ram Ram.Vineet, Sarvottam--------------- How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine. "John Forth" --- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being! It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness! So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt

Hari om

I have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.

Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.

If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not. I tell God is not there in ignorance.

I go a step further. I dont presence of God in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!

Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Shree Hari,

The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything.

May God bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Hello! Jai ManavThere is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible 1. Mass 2 Energy Nothing else beyond this.Ranjankumar--------

Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group. Waiting anxiously. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh----------------Jai Shree Krishna Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" ! Swami Rupesh Kumar -------------------------- Radhey ! Radhey !! Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA. We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha---------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ? Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !! You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath. Narain ! Narain!! Naarad N Maharishi---------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

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Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God," If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

Jai HanumanPratapji Maharaj. How the illusion ends and not "being of the fan" ? How does "fan" exist ? If circle disappears, the fan also disappears. Where is the being of Fan? Does it not change constantly, even when not running ? Is it not constantly merging into non being/destruction? Is it not running (changing) even when not running and thus creating a different illusion than that of circle ? Hence your distinction of Sat, Mithya and Asat need be revisited and brought into line with only Sat and Asat- as Scriptures do ! You must take whole "inert" in one basket !!Are we not "experiencing" bodies, things though Asat? Do we not "experience" dreams though Asat? Yes! But whether that is Truth? No ! Are we "experiencing" Sat ? Are we experiencing Vasudev Sarvam? No ! But whether that is untruth/false? How "consciousness". (support or non support/ validation or non validation by Sentient) then can change the characteristics of Sat and Asat? Hence do not corelate everything with Consciousness ! (Otherwise, some body will again say... Hey Pratap, again the same thing) !! Here Conscience is vital not Consciousness. You cant answer all the Qs that easily by "Consciousness" which is nothing but "being" ! It has to encompass "non being" into it, if the existence of that non being is accepted by you as existing ! You must thus apply Discrimination there !! You must see beyond Asat to find Sat ! You have throw away validation/support theory on this paricular subject. That theory is vital else where, not here ! You cant see Sat with the help of Asat (not vice versa) ! You cant say - Wherever Mithya is, Sat is there ! Absolutely wrong! Conscience is still needed there! Clear? Ask Q, if not clear !!You yourself said - "Mirage is my own imagination, but in Truth it is whatever it IS. Can it exist without Sat of sand and Sunlight? So mirage doesnt exist independently from Sat!" .So Mirage is Sat? Ignorance is Sat?? Maya is Sat !! No ! You have to eliminate them before you realise 7:19 !! Whatever it is, cant be it is !! It is not that easy, Sir !! Support/Validation by sentient can be due to ignorance too !!You have to rise above "Consciousness" Pratapji ! "Conscience" is the key

Why I am advicing so? Simply because "consciousness" is "being"/ "existence" / that which "really" IS !! If in that consciousness, asat is lying in the garb of sat , you have to throw it out ! You cant say: It exists and hence it is, and hence Vasudev Sarvam? Too easy !! Can it be that easy Sir ? You are talking about "Maya" of Daddy, the Great. "Durtyaya" (7:14) is that Sir! It is not some fun, if one decides to use intellect. You must use- Discrimination. Consciousness is of no essence there. That is the end not the beginning. At how many places in Gita you saw reference of Consciousness? Why did you need see? Think about it !!You must see "beyond" Asat. You cant find Sat "beneath" Asat. You have to throw away/disconnect from Asat ! You cant succeed in that with theory you put forward of mirage or fan !! Re-read your message. Take each and every sentence and validate that with reference to Gita verses! You will understand. It is good academic exercise. Believe me, results will be eye opener to you. There is nothing wonderful that you answer every Q under the Sun with the stick of Consciousness. Why? Because it is impossible to do so! Why? Because consciousness encompasses the existence of Asat also !! When you realise 7:19 - Asat gets out of your perception totally, because you have nothing to desire out of it ! That is how it becomes "absent" not by merging by a broom of "consciousness" everything under the Sun, illogically ! ! Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is so important that we must share points that seem different than learned Sadhakas!This is to see where we differ if at all we do!Vyasji says on John Forth's response "In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it?". With all the respect to him, I humbly submit that "whatever" exists is God. God cannot be dependent on something to exist first, something needs God to give it a freedom to exist as whatever name which is false anyway! John correctly points that temporary modifications happen in God(Divine), temporary modifications being mithya-false, (not asat which is ever non-existence)! God remains untouched even as "a thing" perish away to be another form/name! Names and forms are God's hide and seek game! He continues to play as long as He wants to, and then he throws them away and Realizes Himself in the form of Swamiji, for example!God is the cause manifesting as effect in the world. Basudebji has also explained it nicely this way as I understand!With equally great respect I would say to Sathyanarayanji when he says "Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness."Only when one understands "Consciousness" deeply, experientially, one fulfills his purpose on this earth. I hope sadhakas see this in the spirit, I am saying and not just discard by saying "oh, Pratap is saying this same thing over and over!" Isn't it wonderful to answer all one's questions by just repeating the name of God!When one understands Being(Atman) Is Consciousness IS God, and all there is as ONE Experience, nothing else remains to be known!Conscience is not Consciousness in this context, please!Then he says "Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness."Let alone tree and animal etc, all there is, IS Consciousness". (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman), says Vedanta! Then he says "Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.". Right you are! Being with Sat is Knowing, because knowing is Being too! That which you are, you have forgotten, so to remind, you have to know who you are, you have to remove ignorance by Divine Grace, by hearing Truth from the lips of Gyani-Guru, such as Swamiji! Surrender(acceptance) happens in Understanding, not by ego-individual's effort!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Hari OmThis is divine satsanga ! The messages from Pratapji, Ramchandra, Shahji and from Sathyanarainji are really worth reading. In fact Pratapji has desired me to elaborate further/ beyond my one sentence of last message: In ignorance God does not exist. This note is in deference to his request. He wanted to be corrected hence I am also taking liberty of correcting him on some points stated by him in his message. For the Lovers of Holy Gita, I have extensively referred BG verses in this message.Hope my 3/4 hour labour helps sadhaks. Every that thing/body that changes is Asat. The world made of 5 elements and the mind, intellect and ego - of total eight elements is "actually" Asat/Inert (Apara-BG 7:4) different from Sat (Para) ; and that Asat is "actually" non existent.(BG 2:16) This is key !When you take this stand then only four stages referred in my last message merge into "Vasudev Sarvam"- BG 7:19 ! Hence distinction between SAT and ASAT is an example of "Conscience"/ Discrimination (VIVEKA) and not of "Consciousness". (CHETANA/EXISTENCE) . Hence there is no distinction between "asat" and "mithya/false" with reference to existence/consciousness. Both are part of Consciousness and both "exist" though due to wrong acceptance. Both Asat and Mithya/ false (distinction made by Pratapji) must be dealt as Asat(non existent) only ultimately. If you distinguish then again the key helps only through "non existence" route ! You cant proceed logically unless you club both as "asat". Thus, Pratapji, there is no need for such distinction.Note here that Asat very well exists if you "accept" it to be existing. In fact you are born with that wrong "acceptance". With what otherwise a karma yogi or jnana yogi disconnects ?- ASAT ! With what a bhakti yogi connects?- SAT !! In that ASAT which is accepted by you - God does not exist !! WHAT IS NOT GOD?- Asat is not God !! ( I am beyond Asat-BG 15:17)In this connection the following verse is very important -BG 7:12Whatever entities are born of Sattva, of Rajas and of Tamas (the mode of inertia or ignorance) , know them all AS EVOLVED from Me; yet still neither I am in them, nor they are, in Me.Here note the progression, logical steps: between what gets evolved out of God and thereafter in what He exists / does not exist or what exists/ does not exist in Him. Something may evolve out of Him and still He may not be existing/residing in it !! What is that in which He is not residing ? - ASAT ! WHAT IS NOT GOD? Asat is not God !!What has evolved out of Him is existing (out of ignorance actually) , but He is not in that; and that is not in Him. Hence you MUST disregard that. What do you say Vineetji ? Hence, Pratapji, here again your premise that "What is not God" is different than "What exists in Him or in what He does not exist" needs revisiting.Why ? Because, You start your journey with very acceptance of existence of Asat viz What is not God ! Whatever you accept wrongly is not God - AS A LAW !! Hence, Gita also starts journey keeping in mind a Jeeva's that wrong "acceptance" state only. Once you start with acceptance "What is not God"(Asat); the residency issue is next logical consideration; and that cant be distinguished inter se, as you have attempted to do !!Vasudev Sarvam should not be straight made a subject of knowledge- as the Questioner has attempted to do. He has been rightly crossed and countered with reference to dozens of Gita Verses by many sadhaks. Swamiji and Holy Gita as I understand emphasize"accept (Gita 7:19) ; then eliminate "asat" out of it or extend your "self" to be beyond it ; so that the real "knowledge" comes to you ! You must "know....that" (viddhi.. taan- 7:12) !! That knowledge is rare (sa Mahatma sudurlabh). Hence begin with "acceptance" of Vasudev Sarvam, dont justify that in a hurry , simply believe that !! One should not jump to Vasudev Sarvam that fast. You must reconcile voice of God in Gita first.(An input to Vineetji for his "serious study"). What do you say Dear Shrikant Joshi? It is your subject also, Dear !! Also note in the above verse- "know that" (taan viddhi) ! It has to be a part of your knowledge, in other words, experience. "Knowledge" here can be an output of "acceptance" (NABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH/ Mere to Girdhar Gopal- Bhakti Yoga) and "acceptance" can be output of "knowledge" (NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO/ Doosaro Na Koi- Jnana Yoga/ Karma Yoga). You choose! Former needs "VISWAS/Faith/Trust"; later needs VIVEKA/Conscience ! You need to "know that" because you are born "bondaged" - Karmanu bandhini manushya loke- BG 15:3 ) basically, as a human being. Hence "Vasudev Sarvam" needs steps to reach. (Sa mahatma sudurlabhah)Now how to reach from here to Vasudev Sarvam? If you take any stand that asat is not existing and only God is existing (BG 2:16); or Sat is different than asat (BG 7:4) or God is beyond asat (BG 15:18) ; always the aforesaid words of 7:12 or 9:4/5 become true in relation to 7:19 !! But NOT, in relation to 7:19, if you take the stand - Asat is existing ! (Hence Bhakti Yoga is superior to Karma/Jnana Yoga) ! If something is not existing, how can God be in that; or how that non existent thing be in God ? If that is not existing, then what is existing ? That translates into only God exists- Vasudev Sarvam. But it translates in 2 stages - First, VASUDEV SARVAM (All is God) (BG 7:19 read with BG 9:19) ; (Acceptance) Then "after you have cut the Pipala tree" (15:3/15:4 ) ;Second- VASUDEV (There is only God - BG 2:16) !! (Knowledge/experience/realisation) Another beautiful reconciliation comes in the bhava that since Only God exists ; therefore how can anything else be in Him or He be in anything else ! When there is only ONE where is the talk of second? Where is the very Q of "something else" ? Again here anything other than God is not existing, and therefore Only God exists ! Now one way is also seeing beyond that (actually) non existing (but believed/accepted to be existing) thing ( BG 14:19) !! Hence BG 15:18 ( I am wholly beyond Asat) !!Beautiful is Holy Gita, Dear Sadhaks !! What a joy and peace it imparts when you dive deep into it. To be contd.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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PRIOR POSTING

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NARAYAN NARAYN,

That which cannot be comprehended by this intellect, that which cannot be understood, but yet is the Truth. THe shortcomings are in our understanding, not in the Essence (Divinity), therefore the Truth, will ever rise, it will not diminish. With practice and study one cannot realize this, because this practice takes place with the inert (jad), as without the body, mind, intellect, senses, practice and effort cannot take place. With the inert, one cannot attain the conscious, the sentient. Sentient can only be attained by the sentient. With the inert body etc. only the worldly work can get done. Paramatma we have to only beleive, we have to only accept. Because just like there is Gangaji, what practice and effort is needed to know that this is Gangaji. If you accepts that everything is Paramatma then the sentiments that this is the world will be wiped out and only Paramatma will remain, that is already ever present in ever pour, every particle, every being, every where. .....

I bow to this ever merciful over and over again.

[RAMCHANDRA]

IN HINDI HAMARI BHUDHI ME NA AAYE , SAMAZ ME NA AAYE PER BAAT THO SACHI HEIN KAMI HAMAREME HEIN. TATAV ME NAHI. ESLIYE SACHI BAAT BEDHEGI HATEGI NAHI. ABHYAS SE ANUBHAVNAHI HO TA KYOKI ABHYAS JAD SE HO TA HEIN.SHARIR,INDRIYA , MAN, BUDHI,KE BINA ABHYAS NAHI HO TA , JAD SE CHETAN KIPRAPTI NAHI HOTI. CHETAN KI PRAPTI CHETAN SE HO TI HEIN.JAD SE SHANSARIK KAMHOTA HEIN."PARMATMA KO KEVAL MANNA HEIN" SHAWIKAR KARNA HEIN. KYOKI YEH THO ESHA HEIN "JAISE YE GANGAJI HEIN -ESME ABHYASH KYA HEIN.SAB KUCH PARMATMA HE HEIN-YEH SHAWIKAR KARLO THO SHANSAR HEIN-YEH BHAVANA MIT JAYEGI. OUR PARMATMARAHGAYEJE. JO KI VASTAV ME HEIN."ROM ROM PRATI LAGE KOTI KOTI BRAHMAND"HARI KI LEELA BADI APARBANGAYE AAP AKELE SAB KUCH, NAAM DHARA SHANSARMAAT PITA GURU SWAMI BANKER KARE DAANT FATKARSUT DHARA ARU SEVAK BANKER KHUB KARE SATKARKABHI ROG KA ROOP BANAKAR BANTE AAP BUKHARKABHI VED BAN DAVA KHILATE AAP KARE UPCHRKABHI BHOG SUKH MAN BADHAI HAJIR ME NAR NARKABHI DUKHO KA PAHAD PATAKTE MACHTI HAHAKARKABHI SANT BANKAR JEEVO PER KIRPA DHARSTI VISTARANGINAT JANMO KA DUKH SHANKAT CHAN ME DEVE TARKABHI DHARNI PER SANTAN KE HET DHAR MANUSH AVTARAJAB ANOKHI LEELA KARTE SUMIRAT HO BHAV PARANGINAT SWANG RACHATE HERDAM DHANYA BADE SARKARESE PARAM KIRPALU PRABHU KO VINTI BA-RAM-BAR[RAMCHANDRA]

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!As learned sadhakas say, this is divine satsang. We appear to reflect different views in our deliberations about God is present or not in ignorance, negativity etc. We may be saying same in different words we use, I hope!I think the question is What is not God, rather than God is or is not in something!As we all know God, the Infinite Absolute Existence cannot be contained in finite objects but all objects are within Him or they don't exist. If anything is manifest existence, it already is fundamentally God Unmanifest. It is already too late to call it a non-existence. Non-existence cannot be perceived, like son of a barren woman, says Vedanta! We are talking about Being-Existence, in this context, not what that existence appears as, good or bad, has God in it or not! If Being is not cognized as God in anything perceived, desires, attachments are just waiting there!As Vineetji has put it, this is also what Swamiji says to explain "Vasudeva sarvam".There is Sat and then there is false-mithya(Sat appearing as names/forms). Asat is out of question being non-existence! Where one finds Mithya, only there one finds Sat-Existence absolute! Ignorance and negatives are such false superimposed on Sat.Whatever objects allegedly devoid of God need "ME", the Conscious-Being to validate their existence, so they are not independent Reality! The world as we commonly know is not independently experienced! No one has ever! The world in reality IS God(Ishwara), only separate objects are mithyas!Mirage is my own imagination, but in Truth it is whatever it IS. Can it exist without Sat of sand and Sunlight? So mirage doesnt exist independently from Sat! Can a reflection be there without mirror and light reflected by object? Can circle be seen without a fan running? What appears as circle is Fan all the way as it was before circle, during circle, and after the circle ceases to be! Seeing circle is illusion, but once it is known it is Fan, it cannot bind us, rather is useful! Illusion has ended, not the being of a fan!Gita's message is to see God-Sat in all that which appears as Mithya, and not get attached to names/forms. This is the Beauty of its teaching! We need to go beyond saying "God is not in Ignorance", it is not even discussion Vineetji started as I see it. In summary, Ignorance or any attributes on Sat is false, that is why we can Realize God, the only Sat, otherwise Ignorance, if it did exist independently from God, it cannot end. Thus wherever mithya is, there and only there, Sat is, God is! In light of this understanding(only Vidya, the rest is avidya), anything gets resolved in God! Vasudevah sarvamiti! ..........Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadaks,

("There was that one Bhagwaan alone, there is Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT.) (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).) said by a sadak. In the beginning God alone existed, then manifestation of Leela Vibuthi, then after MAHA Pralaya only God remains. World is Maya crated by Bramaji. Once Bramaji life span ends, the world ceases to exist and abides in Paramathuma. But Sadaks my understanding is that only through this world of experience and behavior one can reach GOD. So the body and the supporting system world are essential per my understanding. Many Gandervas, Kinkaras, even Naradh had to come to this earth to wash away their karmas. Everything manifests and abides in Paramathuma for some reason.

Another fact, Paramathuma IS and the world is also there as leela vibuthi. The world changes according to yugas and Karmas, but NOT Paramathuma. To understand the illusive world is a test or exams for man to elevate or keep in birth and death circle. That is the Truth. Example: Sidheswar of Sholapur jumped of cliff as he failed to see GOD. The karma (Action) jumping to death is paid by Bagavan lifting him up from falling and gave him Dharshan. Bakth Gora chopped his hands just for promise on Vital. God definitely knew Gora has the ability of Bakthi to chop his hands. But God waited for the Karma to happen and served him. Later GOD gave his hands and the dead child.

Our respectable Sri Vyasji says, "Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?"

You exist and mirror show your face. The fan exists and circle appears only when Fan runs. World exist and shape of world being round shows horizon. You are Athuman- the mirror is reflection. Fan is object and circle is illusion of your eyes which registers any movements in frames that brain takes in. The Athuman is the power behind brain function fan and circles are objects. So is world as example. Once the objects are not getting registered in mind, then GOD alone appears. Bible says, "Empty thyself and I (God) shall fill in"

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is so important that we must share points that seem different than learned Sadhakas!This is to see where we differ if at all we do!Vyasji says on John Forth's response "In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it?". With all the respect to him, I humbly submit that "whatever" exists is God. God cannot be dependent on something to exist first, something needs God to give it a freedom to exist as whatever name which is false anyway! John correctly points that temporary modifications happen in God(Divine), temporary modifications being mithya-false, (not asat which is ever non-existence)! God remains untouched even as "a thing" perish away to be another form/name! Names and forms are God's hide and seek game! He continues to play as long as He wants to, and then he throws them away and Realizes Himself in the form of Swamiji, for example!God is the cause manifesting as effect in the world. Basudebji has also explained it nicely this way as I understand!With equally great respect I would say to Sathyanarayanji when he says "Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness."Only when one understands "Consciousness" deeply, experientially, one fulfills his purpose on this earth. I hope sadhakas see this in the spirit, I am saying and not just discard by saying "oh, Pratap is saying this same thing over and over!" Isn't it wonderful to answer all one's questions by just repeating the name of God!When one understands Being(Atman) Is Consciousness IS God, and all there is as ONE Experience, nothing else remains to be known!Conscience is not Consciousness in this context, please!Then he says "Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness."Let alone tree and animal etc, all there is, IS Consciousness". (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman), says Vedanta! Then he says "Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.". Right you are! Being with Sat is Knowing, because knowing is Being too! That which you are, you have forgotten, so to remind, you have to know who you are, you have to remove ignorance by Divine Grace, by hearing Truth from the lips of Gyani-Guru, such as Swamiji! Surrender(acceptance) happens in Understanding, not by ego-individual's effort!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Shri Hari Ram Ram, By fact there are two diffrent entities: (God=Bhagwan) and (Kudarat =Scintific Circumstantial evidences=The Vyavysthit Shakti/force/power). In our lokik world, we interchange or exchange the usages of two words: God=Bhagwan and Kudarat. We have the concept that GOD is the doer, creator, and goes favor to his Devotees. For example, the role of Shri Krishna in Maha-Bharat. This is the general concept prevailing in the society/community. This things are just beliefs, but are not facts. Everything is happening around us are due to the presence of Kudarat, in its natural/destined ways. We are feeling/experiencing the effects of these destined Scientific Circumstantial evidences (your presence or you are one of the evedences in happening around you. In other words, my presence or I am one of the evidences in hapening around me, the outcomes that I have craeted earlier but I have forgotten now). This is how the Kudarat/nature funcions around everyone.The roles of Shri Krishna, Bhishma-Pitamah, Duryodhan, Karna, and others in Mahabharat are by their desires, expectations, and commitments to their beliefs. The GOD (the omniscientiest person) is completely different from Kudarat. God does not involve or interfere with what is going on in the society, community, or in nation. If HE does interefere or involve then 'Everybody should be happy as they are created equal and have the same amenities and wealth.' In fact, the GOD is within each of us and is the same in each and every individual. The GOD present in each of us is not fully enlightened or not fully 100% self-realized. If it is fully 100% self-realized, then it becomes 'Omniscientiest: knower of ecah and evrything (past/future/presence) in the universe. The Atma within each of us is parmatma, if it is fully 100% self-realized. There are very few 100% FULLY REALIZED PERSONS/Paramatma-Conscious in the universe, who are able to enlighten others. Jashwant Shah

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

At the Lotus feet

(Obeisance at the lotus feet of Swami Shri Ramsukhdasji this message is being transmitted through a Sadhak)

Your instructions "at the very least test my words and see" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 80); If you do so then I too will undergo a trial and get examined / confirmation of whether what I am saying is Ok or not! I speak from the strength of the Gita. (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 84); that in my practice and reflection I have discovered that which has been inspired by your talks that " Everything is only Bhagwaan" - This is Gita's best of all principles" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 207); "Other than that One Paramatma, nothing has ever manifested at all!" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 221); Rather "There was that one Bhagwaan alone, there is Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).

For this discovery the access and pathway was your discourse "Man's primary duty is to accept the Truth. Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT. This too is the Truth. To accept the Truth as Truth is acceptance of the Truth and to not accept that which is untrue (False) as false, that too is acceptance of the Truth. In essence, there is only one Truth and that is that besides That One Total, in entirety Bhagwaan there is nothing else at all - Vasudeva Sarvam" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 131).

"There is one extraordinary point that by seeing "IS" one does not see the pure, geniune "IS" but by seeing NOT in the form of NOT, the pure "IS" is seen." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 1). The question that was stated in front of over 21,000+ Gita talk sadhaks " State what Gita tells us about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAAN / PARAMAATMAA'? giving quotes from Gita only " in other words "that please reveal what is not Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma?" and what does Gita state regarding this? and to state "only based on what is stated in the Gita." that technique by which in the form of an outcome to accept unreal (UNTRUTH, IS NOT) as "is not" and to accept Real "IS, TRUTH" as "IS". The answer / explanation to this has been presented by many sadhaks that are very thoughtful and with deep inquiry, but in all these there was not that answer which indicated that there is no Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma. That "Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma" that is not there, that can be known when one first knows what that essence of Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma really is? That "IS" (Existence, Truth) is only One. That element "IS-ness" cannot be described, because it is not the subject of the mind, intellect and speech" and "where there is description of That, there is no Essence (tattva) and where there IS the Essence (tattva), there is no description." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 58), "Through use of words, Essence (tattva) cannot be described. and as such the Essence neither Non-existent (IS-NOT) nor Existent (IS). And this sadhaks "Essence" tattva is in reality spoken off by comparing with "non-existence", therefore what name to call it? there is no name for it, in other words no words are capable of reaching it." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 60), and this Essence (tattva) is in reality of the form of transcendental experience (anubhav) and "When non-existent, unreal is accepted as non-existent, then Essence in the form of Existence naturally remains AS-IS (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 61). In other words - "Vasudeva Sarvam"

Since you pointed out to explain, thus this was uncovered, and besides this the 21,000+ sadhaks are now independent in bringing out opposing points to this one. Has any thing been attained? Your strength is the Gita and my strength. It is you alone. This has been shared only due to Bhagwaan's grace. VineetSarvottam

Again to all sadhak, I join my hands and pray that absorb the essence of this message, and anything that is not essential consider it a mistake in my understanding and forget it, as I am a toy filled with flaws. Vineet Sarvottam---------------

Hari Om

You are right Dear John Forth ! Welcome ! In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it? If "something" is not existing at all except in ignorance ; how God can be there in that ? Does river in a desert caused by mirage exist ? How can God be in that river which appears only to deer but exists not in a desert ? Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?

Therefore, in asat (false- what you call to be "temporary modification" ) the existence of God is denied by Gita ! He might have been the cause of the same, the master of the same, the creator of the same, the controller of the same, the owner of the same but He cant be said to be "existing" in the same/ "residing" in the same. Chaos shall emerge if that stand is taken. Hence Gita is very remarkably cautious, specific and categorical on this. Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji has precisely brought out the difference for benefit of humanity at large. Because the very ASAT is actually non existent. It only "appears to be existing" due to ignorance.

Clear, Sir? Come back should you need more elucidation. Follow particularly this thread with special attention. A lot of clarity will emerge out of deliberations.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B ------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Vineetji, in Gita, or in Vedanta, one cannot find any suggestion to say what is not God.If one says "this is not God, then the person who says IS conscious being (Hindi:Uska Hona). That which he calls not God, also has the being, even if it is illusion, it has being! Now see the beauty, when one says "This is not God", one already has acknowledged "this IS" and so God is already in its ISness, in its being whatever it IS. God is smiling when we call any object by a name! This proves the impossibility of experiencing what is not God if Being(honapan) is seen as God which IS true. That is why, perhaps, Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, it is only veiled by our ignorance!Next we need to prove this Being is only ONE Reality of all beings, because then we can prove a being cannot be destroyed even when a being is seemingly destroyed!A particular name/form disappears, then it still IS in another form. A Seed, combined with water, sunlight, earth, intelligence that plants it etc all become tree! Tree gets back to great elements, and great elements derive their being from "I" or "ME" as Awareful Being(Krishnaji uses "ME" for Himself to mean this). And Awareness IS ever IS. So it is easy to see Being is ONE manifesting as many, and can never go out of beingness!(Nabhavo vidyate satah: BG 2:16). Divinity-God-Supreme Consciousness-Unmanifest is vibrantly expressing through all manifest sentients and in-sentients, alike as THE EXISTENCE. But we get tangled up in names/forms only! Everything is rooted in ONE Tree, with branches, leaves, trunk, buds, flowers. It is this Connectedness of ONE Immprtal BEING that we call GOD!Thus everything one sees is in God, as God, for God, from God, to God!This is the hint Vineetji may be giving us for Vasudeva sarvam iti!

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt------------------ Basudeb SenShrastra (Creator) and Shistri (Creation) cannot be distinguished into two. If one tries to do so, it will be difficult to arrive at the Creator as the question will arise ad infinitum as to who created the Creator at any stage. Therefore, the Creator and the Creation has to be the same logically. If God is who has created everything, then he must be everything in creation. So, everything that existed, exits or will exist in future is God. The existence of non-God is impossible.Assume that X is non-God. But X is the creation of something. God being the only creator or source of everything, X , as part of the creation, is created by God. But the creator and the creation being the same, X has to be God. So, the assumption of X being non-God is logically false.You may question how can God be everything - both good and evil, right and wrong, Sun and the moon, Day and night, Saint and thief, human and animal - all at the same time? This question arises because of ego and attachment to forms. Once the ego is gone and attachment to forms disappear from mind one can realize that unless the creator allowed all these opposites cannot co-exist.So, the answer to your question is there is nothing that is not God. In Gita, read Biswarup Darshan portion where Arjun is able to see everything in Lord Krishna when Lord grants him Divine Vision and his illusion of distiguishinh different forms temporarily disappears.Basudeb Sen-----

Hari Om

The message of Vasudev Sathyanarainji is one of the best messages I have ever read on this Divine Forum. My Pranaams to him. You are absolutely right, Sir ! Absolutely based on sound knowledge of the Scriptures and of Holy Gita.

I bow to you, Sir, from deep within.

In fact you have precisely addressed one of the four corner riddles presented by Holy Gita in 7:12/9:4-5. (They are not in Me, I am not in them) ! Another corner is BG 9:19 (I am both Sat and Asat) !! 3rd corner is BG 13:12/ 11:37 (He is neither Sat nor Asat. ... You are beyond Sat and Asat ) !! 4th corner is BG 2:16 (There is no existence of Asat; there is no absence of Sat).

And then is BG 7:19 -All is God. Later on: There is God Only !!

Your message imparts a lesson to all. Gita has infinite bhavas. The aforesaid four corners of riddle, in my humble view, are stages by which you understand Holy Gita. When you reach ... 7:19, you become SILENT.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---------- Jai Hanuman

Congratulations Divine Sadhaks for providing real sattwik heights to Satsanga in this thread ! All responses are absolutely SAT. Rupeshji, Naaradji, Jayantilalji, Ranjankumarji and Anirudhji - right you are, absolutely right ! Brother Sathyanarainji ! Beautiful, Brother ! Really Divine ! Oye Tussi Great Ho Jee! We are privileged to be in your company, Sathyanarainji!

Infinite are the rays of knowledge emanating from Gitaji ! It is one of the most intriguing puzzles/challenges if somebody reads Gita on the strength of his/her intellect or mind or ego or sense of having understood it. It is Divine voice, after all. It can prove all to be right and all to be wrong ! It did not spare even Arjuna when he was under "ignorance" mode. Everything spoken by him in Gita has been ruthlessly and unceremoniously dismissed by Lord Krishna. That is how Gita works. No body can boast to own it. Gita is a master in itself. Surrender to it and it becomes your greatest friend.

Namaste Jee

Jee JeeShashikala

 

--------------PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

What Paramathuma created is Samasti Shriti upto Sri Bhramaji. In it HE created different combinations of 3 gunas. There after the creation was Vesti Shriti Sri Bhramaji works. It was then the ignorance came in. In Chirstian philosophy and Muslim thoughts there is one called Seten or Sitan (Agynan). Please read Srimath Bagavath and Geetha 10th Chapter with hidden meanings. I will quote sloka, verses details later.

The agynan stands separate as that is the tool that tests all humans to see the purity. Only due to Agynan people become terrorist, cruel, cheaters Etc. The swaroop of Agynan is Ravana, Duryodhan, Kans. There previous Karma is connected to Agynan. I am not fully Gynani. I still have flaws. The level of flaws may very less. Some may have more level of flaws. Only when one comes out of the test as Sant Tukaram said- Kamini and Kanchan, he is divine with God. Scripts are very clear that upto Brahma Lok there is sleep, hunger, and desire. Only Humans have the gift to directly reach Vaikunt or Kailash. Gyan is Swaroop of Bagavan. So agyan cannot be from Bagavan or part of Bagavan. Bagavan has killed so many bad ones that were in Agynan. If Bagavan and Agynan are one, then where is the question of Samhar. The Samhar is to body not to the soul. The Agynan is perishable with the body. So Bagavan removes Agynan from soul and sets it free. Bagavan is called Purushotam, means completely flawless in all aspects. Then Bagavan does have absolutely NO flaw. Only WHO is Purushotam can make other flawless.

Existence (Energy)= M to the power of C (Conversion of matter) Scientifically

Some are dead though they are living says many scripts and saints.

Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness. Other conscience is ignorance in disguise, like to say one is living. Tree, animal etc also lives. That is not consciousness. One who fully follows principle of Geetha or Puranas Dharma and lives by it, is consciousness. Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.

Sri Naaradh anger can be felt by Sri Sarvottam. How is it possible? A most minor not traceable amount of Agynan makes one feel the anger.

Negative and positive are not temporary modifications. They are result producers permanently when manifestation takes place and abides in Paramathuma. Any thing on earth or other 13 worlds works only on these two. Only when negative and positive are there bulb light up. There is negative and positive energies in all living things. Once when a person becomes totally positive (Like Adi Sankara- Buddha- Christ) no anger, desires Etc in them. Their energy level radiates to 12 Km radius, as such, by their Dharshan alone one gets to realize.

Pardon me

Jai Sri Krishna

B.sathyanarayan

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! I request Moderators to tell contributors to quote specific teachings of Swamiji in print rather than giving page nos etc as Vineetji has done. If it is a serious study than they must take pains to QUOTE from the books so that all Sadhaks may benefit. By giving page nos of some book and then making categorical remarks of Swamiji teachings being impossible to be wrong will not help westerners to understand. I dont think in any Swamiji's books IT IS CATEGORICALLY stated that in AGYAAN God resides. It must have been in different context. And why... bring Swamiji unless there is need for clarification ? Is not in Gita itself it is written that I AM BEYOND DARKNESS ( BG 13: 17). Read Gita Prabodhani Hindi Page 372 : Swamiji has stated:- Just as in Sun darkness can never come ; in God AGYAAN can never come, it CANNOT come, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COME. I am referring to same Swamiji.... Mr Vineet..... AS IT IS ! Now please kindly share with us the results of your SERIOUS RESEARCH and STUDY as early as possible. Raam! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi-----------Bhagvad Geeta does mention the manifestation Divine in various Natural Phenomenaas detailed in Chapter 10, its central message is how to become Divine.Verse52/2 deals with this: When your intellect comes out of mud of attachment, youwill be able to read the open book of Nature - will not require discourses.Hence what is not God is not the central theme of Geeta. To come out ofattachment is to become God or God-like.Jayantilal Shah

----------------------Jai Shree Krishna SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only: 1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !! 2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also. 3. There is no God existing in idiots , moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11) 4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5 . Is God wrong? There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. He is causing it not residing in it ? What do you say Mr Vineet ? 5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! God has stated that He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it? 6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA (16:18) ! Any body who has God in Him can He do so, Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ? 7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28? I have not scrolled through Entire Gita. Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today. Swami Rupesh Kumar Narain ! Narain !! No Vineet, Sarvottamji Maharajs ! I was never angry ! If I ask you - Iis God not there in SIN? In Stool ? You will not be able to say NO ! Then if I ask you why should not I sin when God is very well in that ? What will you reply? How in that case Gita will be "LIVED" ? How the distinction between 16:1 to 3 and balance chapter 16 will be drawn? If you conclude: There is no God in so and so then your reference of BG 7:19 will be futile. Moreover the biggest fault lies in corelating BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! If all is God who will surrender to whom ? Why? No Vineetji Maharaj ! By telling that you are in surrendered mode only already...nothing will emerge, because then why 18:66 is there in Gita. WHOEVER TALKS ABOUT GITA ONLY INTRODUCES HIS INTELLECT. IN FACT AFTER UNDERSTANDING GITA....... ONE BECOMES SILENT. By the way, Gita is full of verses WHERE LORD HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT HE IS NOT IN THAT OR HE IS BEYOND THAT. I am not narrating because I want you to read yourself. How else will you read Gita otherwise? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi

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there is two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are studying the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, The Bible:1. Mass 2 Energy except these two nothing else Ranjankumar ------------- --------------------

Shree Hari:Ram Ram.Revered Answerers :Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE. Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?' We seek your help in finalizing the search. Ram Ram.Vineet, Sarvottam--------------- How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine. "John Forth" --- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being! It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness! So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt

Hari om

I have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.

Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.

If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not. I tell God is not there in ignorance.

I go a step further. I dont presence of God in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!

Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Shree Hari,

The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything.

May God bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Hello! Jai ManavThere is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible 1. Mass 2 Energy Nothing else beyond this.Ranjankumar--------

Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).Jai Sri Krishna.B.Sathyanarayan-

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT Group. Waiting anxiously. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh----------------Jai Shree Krishna Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study" ! Swami Rupesh Kumar -------------------------- Radhey ! Radhey !! Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA. We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha---------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Did Swamiji ever says such things? ....... such as - if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals" ? Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) .... Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ? Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ? Narain ! Narain !! You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators ! But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath. Narain ! Narain!! Naarad N Maharishi---------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact' is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

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Jai Shri Hari!Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him. 1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12). "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:1) GOD is called by many other names (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA, MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA, (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI, AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi' and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.Vineet,Sarvottam.---------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then itis not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporarylike pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 ofBhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of suchpersons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connectionwith God cannot be snapped.When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarilyGod has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as weget through our Satsang.Geeta's message is Universal for those who would liketo listen.Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri HariNiteesh Dubey

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Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa. Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS. Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam.Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan

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Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."

I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."

I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.

Ram Ram Deosaran Bisnath

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari: Ram Ram. Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only. This is a serious study, not a ritual. Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam-------------------------- -Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 BhagavadGeeta, 7:14 says:-Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadaks,(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"B.Sathyanarayan---------- Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna! Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed.

And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.

Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season. I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.

Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.

Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.

And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath

----

Hari Om

Sadhak Swarupaji ! Welcome! Thoughts are output of a machine called "mind" which is part of body which in turn is part of Prakruti (Nature). They arise based on bhavas (inner sentiments) , which in turn depend upon "ego" (me and mine) of the Jeeva. A change in ego (karta) changes the "bhavas" ! Hence we should not attribute everything to God. God has also given us "viveka" - power to discriminate as well as "independence" to function. Though , ultimately, both inert and sentient belong to Him only, but a sadhak may well draw a distinction first between the two, so that he may renounce inert and establish himself into sentient. Hence it is better that a sadhak presumes that thoughts are not caused by Paramatma as that means wrongly that a human is not independent. God is a disinterested witness most of the time, like self (soul) in a Jeeva! God interferes only upon certain circumstances (e g surrender, bhakta wholly dependent upon Him etc) only. Otherwise, gunas interplay !! All actions/thoughts etc take place in nature only! Both God and Jeeva are beyond Nature!

You may therefore consider that God is "residing" in thoughts but is not "causing" the thoughts. Gunas only are getting consumed in Gunas as ego, intellect, body, mind etc including thoughts, are only part of Prakruti (Gunas) and arise and end in prakruti only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In response to the message # 2816, I would like to respond as follows;

Arjuna realises that Lord Krishna is indeed an incarnation of the Lord Vishnu and as per verse 43 of chapter 11, Arjuna continues adoration of the Lord by eulogising, "You are the father of the world of the moving as well as the unmoving. You are the sole idol of the worship and its venerable teacher. None is equal to you. How then could there be anyone greater than you in these three worlds, O Lord of incomparable greatness."

As the Lord Vishnu pervades the entire Universe, there is hardly anything that is not God.

(ANS: the verse doesn't speak of 'what is NOT God' ) / VS

However, please refer verse 12 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Whatever natures that are Saattvika (purity), Raajasika (passion) and Taamasika (indolence) – these certainly know as from Me alone; I am not in them but they are in Me." (ANS: In verse 12 chapter 7 Shree Krishna said 'neither they are in me nor am I in them' and you mistakenly say 'but they are in Me') / VS.

Lord Krishna uses `Me' to mean himself as the personification of the Brahman, in the human form.

Please also refer verse 25 from chapter 7 from Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, wherein Lord Krishna has asserted that, "Veiled by My creative power (Yoga-Maayaa) I am not revealed to all. This bewildered world knows Me not, the unborn, the unchanging."

(ANS: this verse is about Bhagawaan, not about What is NOT Bhagwaan'.) / VS

Thanks & Best Wishes,

Shrikant Joshi

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God is everything and everything is in God. Entire Gita is full of such quotes.Basudeb Sen

(ANS: vague statement. please give actual quotes about 'what is NOT Bhagwaan'. ) / VS--------------

Hari Om

Such a Q does not arise and should not arise, at the outset. "Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidasti ...." (7:7) - "There is nothing else besides Me, like clusters of yarn beads, formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me " (7/7) "sadsacchahamarjun" "I am Neing and Non Being both" etc. "To find out" - What and Why ?

Since the Q has been raised hence the answer can only be one. For one who does not "accept" that God is in all and in everything, the God does not exist FOR him in all and in everything. Exactly therefore then various verses in Gita particularly in Chapter 16 emanate , e g "mamatma pardeheshu pradvishanto ..." etc in chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !

In essence it is all a matter of "acceptance" by individual embodied souls and not of "reality"- for in reality the answer is known !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, the question was what Gita says about 'what is not GOD/BHAGAWAAN/PARAMAATMAA'? and not about asuri human or non acceptance or acceptance of God. please quote actual verses which say about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?' this is a serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

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A GOD'S DEVOTTEE feels,WHEN EVERY THING IS GOD AND ALL IS GOD, THEN WHY DESIRE TEMPORARY WORLDLY THINGS? DESIRE ONLY GOD THEN , WHO IS ONLY PERMANENT.IT IS GOD WHO HAS COMPELLED this tiny devotee to think in this way. THIS FEELINGS ALSO IS GIVEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY ONLY.JAI MAA KALIHARE KRISHNA

"Swarupa Chakraborty"

(ANS: Reverand Sadhaka, question was What Gita says about 'WHAT IS NOT GOD?'. Please give actual quotations that say about 'what is not God?'. this is serious study, not a ritual.) / VS----------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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