Is Engagment in Divine Play, Dreaming in the Waking State?

July 25, 2009

Shri Hari

Ram Ram

I was listening to Swamiji's CD on the various states (awasthaa) - dream (swapan) , waking (jaagrat), and deep sleep (shushupti); awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state.

MY QUESTION: In the waking state when we are engaged in the divine play of God (Lila) and contemplation on Gurudev, then is this dreaming in the waking state? Dreaming in the waking state is considered to be amusement / entertainment. Whereas in the divine love of Paramatma / Guru, there should not be such entertainment. Please kindly help in classifying the understanding of this state?

Narayan, Narayan

Amit Kharbanda

IN HINDI

Prabhuji, kal swami ji ke satsang ki CD sun raha tha, vishye tha jagrat, swapan, sushupt awastha. ; jagrat me jagrat, jagrat me swapan orr jagrat me sushupt

My Question : jab hum jagrat me ishwar ki leela ya gurudev ke chantan me hote hai to kya yahe jagrat me swapan hai? jagrat me swapan to manoraj ki dasha hai jabki pramatmprem - guruprem manoraj nahi hona chahiye. Iss awastha ka vargikaran karne ki kripa kare.

Narayan, Narayan

Amit Kharbanda

--------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be concise, to the point, refraining from criticism or personal attacks. Berespectful of all sadhaks and avoid judging others.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - -------------------------------

July 29, 2009

Shri Hari

Ram Ram

I was listening to Swamiji's CD on the various states (awasthaa) - dream (swapan) , waking (jaagrat), and deep sleep (shushupti); awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state.

MY QUESTION: In the waking state when we are engaged in the divine play of God (Lila) and contemplation on Gurudev, then is this dreaming in the waking state? Dreaming in the waking state is considered to be amusement / entertainment. Whereas in the divine love of Paramatma / Guru, there should not be such entertainment. Please kindly help in classifying the understanding of this state?

Narayan, Narayan

Amit Kharbanda

IN HINDI

Prabhuji, kal swami ji ke satsang ki CD sun raha tha, vishye tha jagrat, swapan, sushupt awastha. ; jagrat me jagrat, jagrat me swapan orr jagrat me sushupt My Question : jab hum jagrat me ishwar ki leela ya gurudev ke chantan me hote hai to kya yahe jagrat me swapan hai? jagrat me swapan to manoraj ki dasha hai jabki pramatmprem - guruprem manoraj nahi hona chahiye. Iss awastha ka vargikaran karne ki kripa kare. Narayan, NarayanAmit Kharbanda --------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadak,

The dialouge between Asta Vakra and King Janaka (Whom Sri Krishna said great soul) is called Asta Vakra eetha. In dreaming or awakening stake both are illusions. Only in Gyana stage man is perfect. More details if you want mail me.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

--------

Priy sadhak

go to funda,

awastha=awa+stha

awa=dowm,

stha=position

when u r down to ur origin thats awastha

that way every state is dream vitua

no true coz changing

hope it helps

thanx

raja gurdasani

------------------------

(Be) awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state -why?Our cognition works with the images it creates/captures from the world aroundthrough its senorial operatus. Working with the images in isolation is oftencalled dreamful state (Swapna) while working with the images in association withthe world is often called wakeful state (Jaagrata). Absence of images of anykind is called deep sleep (Sushupti).In each state, an individual has to stake a protion of oneself to facilitate therole of the so called "subject" or "ego" while a portion of the world is fed-inin terms of its images as "objects". One's life is generally perceived asperpetual recycling of an indivudal in terms of "subject" and the world in termsof "objects" in mutual conjugation.As a result, till there are "objects", the "subject" remains and till there is a"subject", the "objects" pour in. The life is The Perfect Yagnya in itself. Infact, all the sacred Yagnyas ARE prescribed to learn experience the life as aYagnya as such. The question is, why then such a wonderful Yagnya isill-conceived to be an objective for attaining amusement and entertainment onone hand and as the source for all our fears on the other hand?! The trueviolation of the nature occurs when we mix up our notions resulting inexistential fragmentation: (1) subjective individualized appreciation of theworld and (2) individual existence in objective dependence.The suggestion from Swamiji (as I understand from the question) "Be wakeful inall the states of life no matter what is perceived or not" is very apt. Whatdoes it really mean? Being awake is to acknowledge the role of the world(Vishva, the active fellow) in all our imageries - actions (Jaagrata) and dreams(Swapna) - including the one image of the absence of all images in the sleep(Sushupti). Therefore, being awake is to attribute all that we act upon, thinkabout and experience within to the world (Vishwa) as it ought to be. In otherwords, all the existential elements belong to the existence (world) and leave itthat way. When everything is attributed to the world rightfully, what is leftfor any individual to own about and left within? When there is nothing owned orleft within, what is left to desire for or to be afraid of?! Termination offears and desires is the only devine act, after all. Therefore, "being awake allthe time" is the divinity as such.Yasmin sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |Tatra ko mohah ko shokah ekatvamanupashyatah ||However, "being awake" here does not mean that one should abandon sleepaltogether - rather on cannot and one need not. This wakefulness is now with theindividual self (wherever it stands, be it body or mind or experience or beyond)rather than the body-mind cluster. The wakefulness called for here requires theindividual to be awarefully appreciative of the universal presence of anythingand everything with absolutely no locus in any individual or specific identityof oneself as well as others. In other words, the objectivity is attained inABSOLUTE sense. This is often called Aatmabodha - realization of the UniversalPresence.On the other hand, Ramana Maharshi used to say the wakeful state as"Toongamillada toong" or "sleep while awake" (and "sleep while dreaming"). Beasleep in all the states irrespective of the images that may pass through yourindividual presence. What does it really mean? Sleep is the state where thewhole world's existence is completely negated. The very role of the world inone's core presence is seen as NULL or VOID. The world exists to us only thoughits images that are processed or stored within. The world means nothing to uswhen this imagery is removed. Since there is no world without these images, I amnot the world (Vishva, wakeful fellow). The imagery does not seem to belong tous either because we would not lapse into the sleep if it was so! When theimagery does not mean anything to me as mine, I am not the imagery (Taijasa, thedreamer) either. I am THAT which I am in my deep sleep (Praagnya, the pureconciousness) irrespective of what is perceived - dreams or worlds. When thereis nothing within irrespectively, where is the "I", where is the world, whereare the wants and where could be the fears?!Yastu sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmanyevaanupashyati |Sarvabhuteshu chaatmaanam tatho na vijugupsate ||Therefore, another foolproof way is to be "asleep" all the time. It does notmean that one should abandon activities altogether - rather on cannot and oneneed not. This sleepfulness is now with the self rather than the body whereinthe individual has awarefully realized of one's very presence independent ofanything and everything, the subjectivity in ABSOLUTE sense. This is oftencalled Manonaasha - realization of the absence of Individual/Specific Presence.Taking any such utterances stemming from a deep appreciation of a seersuperficially can lead to catastrophies. A wholistic appreciation helps while alopsided appreciation may aggrevate one's problems. For example, over-emphasison the world (Vishwa) can potentially promote one's craves (Rajas) whileover-emphasis on the sleep (Praagnya) can potentially promote oblivion within(Tamas). That is why The Mandukyopanishat emphasises on The Fourth (Tureeya),THE ALL being THE NONE - THE ONLY PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.The two apparently opposite positions are really one and the same. In fact, awholistic Saadhana automatically encomapasses both - being awake all the time aswell as being asleep all the time - in tandem. If one occurs, the other has tooccur automatically. Awarefull reduction of ownership associated with expansiveuniversal presence is all the spirituality (divinity) is about. What we are"doing" does not matter ... how we are "being" DOES MATTER.THAT is ALL ... ALL is THAT … THE EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.… aatmaiva samvishatyaatmanaa aatmaanam … ya evam veda …Respects.Naga Narayana.

---------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be concise, to the point, refraining from criticism or personal attacks. Berespectful of all sadhaks and avoid judging others.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

-------------------------------

August 2, 2009

Shri Hari

Ram Ram

I was listening to Swamiji's CD on the various states (awasthaa) - dream (swapan) , waking (jaagrat), and deep sleep (shushupti); awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state.

MY QUESTION: In the waking state when we are engaged in the divine play of God (Lila) and contemplation on Gurudev, then is this dreaming in the waking state? Dreaming in the waking state is considered to be amusement / entertainment. Whereas in the divine love of Paramatma / Guru, there should not be such entertainment. Please kindly help in classifying the understanding of this state?

Narayan, Narayan

Amit Kharbanda

IN HINDI

Prabhuji, kal swami ji ke satsang ki CD sun raha tha, vishye tha jagrat, swapan, sushupt awastha. ; jagrat me jagrat, jagrat me swapan orr jagrat me sushupt My Question : jab hum jagrat me ishwar ki leela ya gurudev ke chantan me hote hai to kya yahe jagrat me swapan hai? jagrat me swapan to manoraj ki dasha hai jabki pramatmprem - guruprem manoraj nahi hona chahiye. Iss awastha ka vargikaran karne ki kripa kare. Narayan, NarayanAmit Kharbanda --------------------

NEW POSTING

Hari OmIn my childhood days my Dad used to narrate many stories to me. I lost him quite early but one such story should answer the Q of Sadhak Amit Kharbanda: Once King Janaka had a dream sleeping on royal cot that he was poor and hungry and was cooking food under a tree. Suddenly an animal came and took away the loaves of bread leaving him hungry and crying. And the Great King woke up wondering as to how in his life such a thing can occur. He called his ministers/advisors and asked them:Is this true or was that true ?Many could not understand his Q. Then came Rishi Ashtavakra in his durbaar. He said to King : O King ! Neither this is true (Waking State) nor that was true (Dream State) !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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While contemplating God or Gurudev we are in the waking state. Itcannot be in a dreaming state because we have no control over ourdreams. Similarly while in a deep sleep also contemplation is notpossible. The correct state would be to call it meditation.Hari Shanker Deo

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(Be) awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state -why?Our cognition works with the images it creates/captures from the world aroundthrough its senorial operatus. Working with the images in isolation is oftencalled dreamful state (Swapna) while working with the images in association withthe world is often called wakeful state (Jaagrata). Absence of images of anykind is called deep sleep (Sushupti).In each state, an individual has to stake a portion of oneself to facilitate therole of the so called "subject" or "ego" while a portion of the world is fed-inin terms of its images as "objects". One's life is generally perceived asperpetual recycling of an individual in terms of "subject" and the world in termsof "objects" in mutual conjugation.As a result, till there are "objects", the "subject" remains and till there is a"subject", the "objects" pour in. The life is The Perfect Yagnya in itself. Infact, all the sacred Yagnyas ARE prescribed to learn experience the life as aYagnya as such. The question is, why then such a wonderful Yagnya isill-conceived to be an objective for attaining amusement and entertainment onone hand and as the source for all our fears on the other hand?! The trueviolation of the nature occurs when we mix up our notions resulting inexistential fragmentation: (1) subjective individualized appreciation of theworld and (2) individual existence in objective dependence.The suggestion from Swamiji (as I understand from the question) "Be wakeful inall the states of life no matter what is perceived or not" is very apt. Whatdoes it really mean? Being awake is to acknowledge the role of the world(Vishva, the active fellow) in all our imageries - actions (Jaagrata) and dreams(Swapna) - including the one image of the absence of all images in the sleep(Sushupti). Therefore, being awake is to attribute all that we act upon, thinkabout and experience within to the world (Vishwa) as it ought to be. In otherwords, all the existential elements belong to the existence (world) and leave itthat way. When everything is attributed to the world rightfully, what is leftfor any individual to own about and left within? When there is nothing owned orleft within, what is left to desire for or to be afraid of?! Termination offears and desires is the only devine act, after all. Therefore, "being awake allthe time" is the divinity as such.Yasmin sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |Tatra ko mohah ko shokah ekatvamanupashyatah ||However, "being awake" here does not mean that one should abandon sleepaltogether - rather one cannot and one need not. This wakefulness is now with theindividual self (wherever it stands, be it body or mind or experience or beyond)rather than the body-mind cluster. The wakefulness called for here requires theindividual to be awarefully appreciative of the universal presence of anythingand everything with absolutely no locus in any individual or specific identityof oneself as well as others. In other words, the objectivity is attained inABSOLUTE sense. This is often called Aatmabodha - realization of the UniversalPresence.On the other hand, Ramana Maharshi used to say the wakeful state as"Toongamillada toong" or "sleep while awake" (and "sleep while dreaming"). Beasleep in all the states irrespective of the images that may pass through yourindividual presence. What does it really mean? Sleep is the state where thewhole world's existence is completely negated. The very role of the world inone's core presence is seen as NULL or VOID. The world exists to us only thoughits images that are processed or stored within. The world means nothing to uswhen this imagery is removed. Since there is no world without these images, I amnot the world (Vishva, wakeful fellow). The imagery does not seem to belong tous either because we would not lapse into the sleep if it was so! When theimagery does not mean anything to me as mine, I am not the imagery (Taijasa, thedreamer) either. I am THAT which I am in my deep sleep (Praagnya, the pureconciousness) irrespective of what is perceived - dreams or worlds. When thereis nothing within irrespectively, where is the "I", where is the world, whereare the wants and where could be the fears?!Yastu sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmanyevaanupashyati |Sarvabhuteshu chaatmaanam tatho na vijugupsate ||Therefore, another foolproof way is to be "asleep" all the time. It does notmean that one should abandon activities altogether - rather one cannot and oneneed not. This sleepfulness is now with the self rather than the body whereinthe individual has awarefully realized of one's very presence independent ofanything and everything, the subjectivity in ABSOLUTE sense. This is oftencalled Manonaasha - realization of the absence of Individual/Specific Presence.Taking any such utterances stemming from a deep appreciation of a seersuperficially can lead to catastrophies. A wholistic appreciation helps while alopsided appreciation may aggrevate one's problems. For example, over-emphasison the world (Vishwa) can potentially promote one's craves (Rajas) whileover-emphasis on the sleep (Praagnya) can potentially promote oblivion within(Tamas). That is why The Mandukyopanishat emphasises on The Fourth (Tureeya),THE ALL being THE NONE - THE ONLY PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.The two apparently opposite positions are really one and the same. In fact, awholistic Saadhana automatically encomapasses both - being awake all the time aswell as being asleep all the time - in tandem. If one occurs, the other has tooccur automatically. Awarefull reduction of ownership associated with expansiveuniversal presence is all the spirituality (divinity) is about. What we are"doing" does not matter ... how we are "being" DOES MATTER.THAT is ALL ... ALL is THAT … THE EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.… aatmaiva samvishatyaatmanaa aatmaanam … ya evam veda …Respects.Naga Narayana.

--------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadak,The dialouge between Asta Vakra and King Janaka (Whom Sri Krishna said great soul) is called Asta Vakra eetha. In dreaming or awakening stake both are illusions. Only in Gyana stage man is perfect. More details if you want mail me.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------Priy sadhak go to funda,awastha=awa+sthaawa=dowm, stha=positionwhen u r down to ur origin thats awasthathat way every state is dream vituano true coz changinghope it helpsthanxraja gurdasani------------------------

(Be) awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state -why?

Our cognition works with the images it creates/captures from the world aroundthrough its senorial operatus. Working with the images in isolation is oftencalled dreamful state (Swapna) while working with the images in association withthe world is often called wakeful state (Jaagrata). Absence of images of anykind is called deep sleep (Sushupti).

In each state, an individual has to stake a protion of oneself to facilitate therole of the so called "subject" or "ego" while a portion of the world is fed-inin terms of its images as "objects". One's life is generally perceived asperpetual recycling of an indivudal in terms of "subject" and the world in termsof "objects" in mutual conjugation.

As a result, till there are "objects", the "subject" remains and till there is a"subject", the "objects" pour in. The life is The Perfect Yagnya in itself. Infact, all the sacred Yagnyas ARE prescribed to learn experience the life as aYagnya as such. The question is, why then such a wonderful Yagnya isill-conceived to be an objective for attaining amusement and entertainment onone hand and as the source for all our fears on the other hand?! The trueviolation of the nature occurs when we mix up our notions resulting inexistential fragmentation: (1) subjective individualized appreciation of theworld and (2) individual existence in objective dependence.

The suggestion from Swamiji (as I understand from the question) "Be wakeful inall the states of life no matter what is perceived or not" is very apt. Whatdoes it really mean? Being awake is to acknowledge the role of the world(Vishva, the active fellow) in all our imageries - actions (Jaagrata) and dreams(Swapna) - including the one image of the absence of all images in the sleep(Sushupti). Therefore, being awake is to attribute all that we act upon, thinkabout and experience within to the world (Vishwa) as it ought to be. In otherwords, all the existential elements belong to the existence (world) and leave itthat way. When everything is attributed to the world rightfully, what is leftfor any individual to own about and left within? When there is nothing owned orleft within, what is left to desire for or to be afraid of?! Termination offears and desires is the only devine act, after all. Therefore, "being awake allthe time" is the divinity as such.

Yasmin sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |Tatra ko mohah ko shokah ekatvamanupashyatah ||

However, "being awake" here does not mean that one should abandon sleepaltogether - rather on cannot and one need not. This wakefulness is now with theindividual self (wherever it stands, be it body or mind or experience or beyond)rather than the body-mind cluster. The wakefulness called for here requires theindividual to be awarefully appreciative of the universal presence of anythingand everything with absolutely no locus in any individual or specific identityof oneself as well as others. In other words, the objectivity is attained inABSOLUTE sense. This is often called Aatmabodha - realization of the UniversalPresence.

On the other hand, Ramana Maharshi used to say the wakeful state as"Toongamillada toong" or "sleep while awake" (and "sleep while dreaming"). Beasleep in all the states irrespective of the images that may pass through yourindividual presence. What does it really mean? Sleep is the state where thewhole world's existence is completely negated. The very role of the world inone's core presence is seen as NULL or VOID. The world exists to us only thoughits images that are processed or stored within. The world means nothing to uswhen this imagery is removed. Since there is no world without these images, I amnot the world (Vishva, wakeful fellow). The imagery does not seem to belong tous either because we would not lapse into the sleep if it was so! When theimagery does not mean anything to me as mine, I am not the imagery (Taijasa, thedreamer) either. I am THAT which I am in my deep sleep (Praagnya, the pureconciousness) irrespective of what is perceived - dreams or worlds. When thereis nothing within irrespectively, where is the "I", where is the world, whereare the wants and where could be the fears?!

Yastu sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmanyevaanupashyati |Sarvabhuteshu chaatmaanam tatho na vijugupsate ||

Therefore, another foolproof way is to be "asleep" all the time. It does notmean that one should abandon activities altogether - rather on cannot and oneneed not. This sleepfulness is now with the self rather than the body whereinthe individual has awarefully realized of one's very presence independent ofanything and everything, the subjectivity in ABSOLUTE sense. This is oftencalled Manonaasha - realization of the absence of Individual/Specific Presence.

Taking any such utterances stemming from a deep appreciation of a seersuperficially can lead to catastrophies. A wholistic appreciation helps while alopsided appreciation may aggrevate one's problems. For example, over-emphasison the world (Vishwa) can potentially promote one's craves (Rajas) whileover-emphasis on the sleep (Praagnya) can potentially promote oblivion within(Tamas). That is why The Mandukyopanishat emphasises on The Fourth (Tureeya),THE ALL being THE NONE - THE ONLY PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.

The two apparently opposite positions are really one and the same. In fact, awholistic Saadhana automatically encomapasses both - being awake all the time aswell as being asleep all the time - in tandem. If one occurs, the other has tooccur automatically. Awarefull reduction of ownership associated with expansiveuniversal presence is all the spirituality (divinity) is about. What we are"doing" does not matter ... how we are "being" DOES MATTER.

THAT is ALL ... ALL is THAT … THE EQUILIBRIUM OF ALL.

… aatmaiva samvishatyaatmanaa aatmaanam … ya evam veda …

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

---------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be concise, to the point, refraining from criticism or personal attacks. Berespectful of all sadhaks and avoid judging others.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

-------------------------------

August 6, 2009

Shri Hari

Ram Ram

I was listening to Swamiji's CD on the various states (awasthaa) - dream (swapan) , waking (jaagrat), and deep sleep (shushupti); awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state.

MY QUESTION: In the waking state when we are engaged in the divine play of God (Lila) and contemplation on Gurudev, then is this dreaming in the waking state? Dreaming in the waking state is considered to be amusement / entertainment. Whereas in the divine love of Paramatma / Guru, there should not be such entertainment. Please kindly help in classifying the understanding of this state?

Narayan, Narayan

Amit Kharbanda

IN HINDI

Prabhuji, kal swami ji ke satsang ki CD sun raha tha, vishye tha jagrat, swapan, sushupt awastha. ; jagrat me jagrat, jagrat me swapan orr jagrat me sushupt My Question : jab hum jagrat me ishwar ki leela ya gurudev ke chantan me hote hai to kya yahe jagrat me swapan hai? jagrat me swapan to manoraj ki dasha hai jabki pramatmprem - guruprem manoraj nahi hona chahiye. Iss awastha ka vargikaran karne ki kripa kare. Narayan, NarayanAmit Kharbanda --------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste, dear Sadhakas!Learned Sadhakas have already posted helpful explanation of the states!As long as I remain ignorant of my True identity, dream continues even while I am in wakeful state. In the sleep state, the ignorance continues, however, body/mind and world duality gets suspended temporarily and hence bliss is felt and remembered upon waking, When I realize I am Atman and not anything of this world, not another object(body-mind) among many, I wake up from the dream of "waking state". Upon waking from wakeful state, I realize it was a dream-like state. I am stateless Presence in all of them and beyond them! States come and go in ME, while I go nowhere, always Home!When Ignorance is removed, Self is realized, person disappears, there is only Jagrat Awastha in all 3 states. The one who is awake to his/her SELF, is truly awake even while dreaming and sleeping. So Swamiji says, awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state (is the Gyan awastha, Gyan state).Now your question paraphrased: during waking state if one does contemplation on Guru or engaged in divine play of God, is this dreaming?Answer is yes, if ignorance of me/mine continues, but it is a way of waking up to our true nature, so is useful if done sincerely. To awaken dream disciple, dream Guru appears too!Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt.

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Real awakening is awareness of everything within us and around us.This Jagrutior awareness in the beginning is Aspashta or Hazy and also accompanied with manyemotional impurities broadly classified under the heading either Shubha andAshubha i.e. good and bad or craving and aversion i.e. Raaga and Dwesha.This is the initial stage which becomes progressively purified by rememberingthe following Verse of Bhagwad-Geeta:Ya Nisha Sarvabhutanam,Tasyam Jagarti Sainyami, Yasyam Jagrati Bhootani,Sa NishaPashyatah Munehe.2/69By invoking Vivek-Bhudhhi,slowly we sleep in all objects of sense enjoyments andbe interested and slowly deeply interested in Spiritual Activities, first impureawareness developesi.e. we find out that our thoughts and awareness are impureand needs correction. Once this awareness comes that correction is neededinside, from that moment Purushartha or effort begins: For a Bhakti-Margi it maybe of one type,for a Yoga-Margi it may be of different type, but it will alwayslead to awakening getting purer and purer and one day we will be able tosay:Nashto Mohah that is the end of journey.Jayaantilal Shah

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ah..................................beautiful it is !

just to read the mention of the dialogue between King Janaka and Ashtavakra ....

AUM

Sathayanarayana jee..............thank you

Each shaloka of the ashtavakra geetha is Light and Love

ready to awaken the prepared self, to the awareness of the Great Source of being

the Self ..................

But, the awakened ones have said ...............

the ashtavakra geetha , is ....ONLY for them , who are ready ........... not for all ...........

it is for the Janakas of the world, the Sathyanarayanas ....( Bless you )..............

it is NOT for the sleeping, or , the dreaming .............Ah !

for the majority of us ............. the narinders and naris .... the Bhagvada Geetha of Krishna .... is the Way

and one day, some day, when narinder's ears begin to hear Krishna's flute playing,

the soundless sound of Aum,

Krishna Himself , shall come to the self , as the word of Astavakra Geetha ..........

AUM

Narinder Bhandari

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Hari Om

Very True Raja Gurudasaniji and Vasudev Sathyanarainji ! It is only dream because it changes. Both states are untrue and illusory. Reaching to your roots is reaching to the changeless state. From that too the world is a dream. World includes waking state, dream state etc as well as Time. In you there is no state. There is no Time. There is no beginning. There is no end. You are chetan.

Pranaams to both of you!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadaks,What Sri Vyasji said is the same I have quoted below. Still I shall repeat for benefit of sadaks"The dialouge between Asta Vakra and King Janaka (Whom Sri Krishna said great soul) is called Asta Vakra Geetha. In dreaming or awakening stake both are illusions. Only in Gyana stage, man is perfect. More details if you want mail me."B.Sathyanarayan

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-Shree Hari-Namaste!Lovely reply brother Vyas. As dreams are known only to the individual.So the so called "Reality", in the "Waking' state, is known only to theindividual, the so called reality cannot be known until one is "Awake"!My so called Reality Amitji, will definitely be different to yours. Who isseeing reality correctly? Neither one of us, but with the Grace of "TheBeloved", we will.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor ---------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

In my childhood days my Dad used to narrate many stories to me. I lost him quite early but one such story should answer the Q of Sadhak Amit Kharbanda:

Once King Janaka had a dream sleeping on royal cot that he was poor and hungry and was cooking food under a tree. Suddenly an animal came and took away the loaves of bread leaving him hungry and crying. And the Great King woke up wondering as to how in his life such a thing can occur. He called his ministers/advisors and asked them:

Is this true or was that true ?

Many could not understand his Q. Then came Rishi Ashtavakra in his durbaar. He said to King :

O King ! Neither this is true (Waking State) nor that was true (Dream State) !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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While contemplating God or Gurudev we are in the waking state. Itcannot be in a dreaming state because we have no control over ourdreams. Similarly while in a deep sleep also contemplation is notpossible. The correct state would be to call it meditation.Hari Shanker Deo

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(Be) awake in waking state, awake in dream state and awake in deep sleep state -why?

Our cognition works with the images it creates/captures from the world aroundthrough its senorial operatus. Working with the images in isolation is oftencalled dreamful state (Swapna) while working with the images in association withthe world is often called wakeful state (Jaagrata). Absence of images of anykind is called deep sleep (Sushupti).

In each state, an individual has to stake a portion of oneself to facilitate therole of the so called "subject" or "ego" while a portion of the world is fed-inin terms of its images as "objects". One's life is generally perceived asperpetual recycling of an individual in terms of "subject" and the world in termsof "objects" in mutual conjugation.

As a result, till there are "objects", the "subject" remains and till there is a"subject", the "objects" pour in. The life is The Perfect Yagnya in itself. Infact, all the sacred Yagnyas ARE prescribed to learn experience the life as aYagnya as such. The question is, why then such a wonderful Yagnya isill-conceived to be an objective for attaining amusement and entertainment onone hand and as the source for all our fears on the other hand?! The trueviolation of the nature occurs when we mix up our notions resulting inexistential fragmentation: (1) subjective individualized appreciation of theworld and (2) individual existence in objective dependence.

The suggestion from Swamiji (as I understand from the question) "Be wakeful inall the states of life no matter what is perceived or not" is very apt. Whatdoes it really mean? Being awake is to acknowledge the role of the world(Vishva, the active fellow) in all our imageries - actions (Jaagrata) and dreams(Swapna) - including the one image of the absence of all images in the sleep(Sushupti). Therefore, being awake is to attribute all that we act upon, thinkabout and experience within to the world (Vishwa) as it ought to be. In otherwords, all the existential elements belong to the existence (world) and leave itthat way. When everything is attributed to the world rightfully, what is leftfor any individual to own about and left within? When there is nothing owned orleft within, what is left to desire for or to be afraid of?! Termination offears and desires is the only devine act, after all. Therefore, "being awake allthe time" is the divinity as such.

Yasmin sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |Tatra ko mohah ko shokah ekatvamanupashyatah ||

However, "being awake" here does not mean that one should abandon sleepaltogether - rather one cannot and one need not. This wakefulness is now with theindividual self (wherever it stands, be it body or mind or experience or beyond)rather than the body-mind cluster. The wakefulness called for here requires theindividual to be awarefully appreciative of the universal presence of anythingand everything with absolutely no locus in any individual or specific identityof oneself as well as others. In other words, the objectivity is attained inABSOLUTE sense. This is often called Aatmabodha - realization of the UniversalPresence.

On the other hand, Ramana Maharshi used to say the wakeful state as"Toongamillada toong" or "sleep while awake" (and "sleep while dreaming"). Beasleep in all the states irrespective of the images that may pass through yourindividual presence. What does it really mean? Sleep is the state where thewhole world's existence is completely negated. The very role of the world inone's core presence is seen as NULL or VOID. The world exists to us only thoughits images that are processed or stored within. The world means nothing to uswhen this imagery is removed. Since there is no world without these images, I amnot the world (Vishva, wakeful fellow). The imagery does not seem to belong tous either because we would not lapse into the sleep if it was so! When theimagery does not mean anything to me as mine, I am not the imagery (Taijasa, thedreamer) either. I am THAT which I am in my deep sleep (Praagnya, the pureconciousness) irrespective of what is perceived - dreams or worlds. When thereis nothing within irrespectively, where is the "I", where is the world, whereare the wants and where could be the fears?!

Yastu sarvaaNi bhutaani aatmanyevaanupashyati |Sarvabhuteshu chaatmaanam tatho na vijugupsate ||

Therefore, another foolproof way is to be "asleep" all the time. It does notmean that one should abandon activities altogether - rather one cannot and oneneed not. This sleepfulness is now with the self rather than the body whereinthe individual has awarefully realized of one's very presence independent ofanything and everything, the subjectivity in ABSOLUTE sense. This is oftencalled Manonaasha - realization of the absence of Individual/Specific Presence.