Guest guest Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram Thank you all for your notes on this Topic. None of the notes received pointed out specific statement in Swamiji's message that are incorrect. The basis of Swamiji's messages are ONLY the scriptures. All He has done in this message is translated the " shlokas " from the scriptures. So if there is a disagreement, then it is disagreeing with what is written in the scriptures. Also, Swamiji's experience " anubhava " with millions of sadhaks during the course of His life, leads him to make these statements. When you express disagreement, please do so clearly, by noting the specific points of disagreements from Swamiji's message, NOT GENERALITIES or opinions. PLEASE REREAD SWAMIJI'S MESSAGE AT THE END OF THIS POSTING Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram -------------------- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be concise, to the point, refraining from criticism or personal attacks. Be respectful of all sadhaks and avoid judging others. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address etc) or personalize message to particular person 7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - ------------------------------- My dandavat pranams.... Oh most respected, learned persons.......in this dark age of Kali, so many vices are certainly prevelant....so many so-called spiritual persons, who have motive to make money, to have prestige, worship, etc etc. But then, my spiritual master, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, came to America and initiated so many young boys and girls into the path of bhakti yoga. I feel myself to be most fortunate to have taken guidance from him, through his books, his lectures, and through his teachings transmitted to older godbrothers and godsisters, who then explained to me proper mode of behavior in temple life, path of bhakti yoga, in social life, in regard to ettiquette between man and woman, etc. At age 14 I left my father's home and lived in Boston temple for 5 years before marrying. If I had not been given opportunity to learn devotional lessions, through the mercy of my guru, what would I have understood about how to respect a man? How to be married in any sense of Vedic dharma? In this country of USA, there is no training of a girl to have worship, respect for husband. The trend is for women to want to be at least equal, and even more lately, to compete, to challenge, to surpass men. How would I have learned anything without the mercy of gurudeva, who was ordered by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur to preach in western countries, and who himself set the example of initiating women? I feel from my heart that if a person is on the level of uttama adhikari, they will know that their level of intimate loving exchange with the Lord will far surpass any attraction to mundane man/woman affiars. And if guru does not have such relationship with Bhagavan, he should seriously consider if he should be taking disciples, for one who does not have close intimate loving affectionate talks with Bhagavan is on a lower level, and cannot take his disciples to the lotus feet of the Lord because he (the less qualified guru) is not at the lotus feet of Bhagavan himself. A persons cannot deliver to Bhagavan another, if he himself is not there. And once there, the love, affection, and rasa is so powerful.....such an uttama adhikari, or most qualified devotee,would not leave the association of the Lord for anything of this world......therefore there is no fault for such a person to initiate a woman. To tell the women of western culture that there only salvation is there husband, is virtually to condemn 99% of them to animal life in this birth and the next, for most men in America and many other countries as well, are animals. " Wife " means sexual enjoyment, not responsibility for protection of children, security for the family, dharma, devotion in the home, etc. Therefore, the principle of considering time, place, and circumstance must be applied in order to attempt to elevate the population of this planet. It is not a realistic approach, to say a husband is guru, unless a woman is trained by her parents, to know that her future husband should be worshiped as guru, and the girl also has confidence and discretion that the man she will/is married to, is properly guiding her. Nothing should be done blindly....not for men, or women... Most respectfully, Maha Laksmi Dasi -------------------- Dear Sadhaks, Hari Bol Yes, a woman can make a Guru. " Shri Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum " . Woman's husband and husband himself both and their children all are fully eligible to become deciple of Shri Krishna Guru. Gopis were married and unmarried, and God Krishna was more than Guru for them. They got right to reprimand, scold Shri Krishna all the way. Husbands' mention comes on many places in Shri Bhagavadam. Canto 10 Chapter 29 and many other chapter are full of Gopis with husbands. It is advisable to make Shri Krishna a Guru. My wife worships Shri Krishna. My sister-in-law worships Shri Krishna. But nowadays living gurus are not qualified to become Guru even for a husband. God Krishna is eternally living in our heart. Read Shri Gita, read Shri Bhagavat. And follow that. Find Guru Shri Krishna in these holy scriptures. Jai Shri Krishna Mahesh Sharma ------------------- Ram Ram Woman is the base for creating the future of any nation. Woman is also a human kind & they require guru for the same reason a man requires a guru.If a Husband is drinking & not having good character than how can be he guru. This is unjustice to women in total & shows very old mentality. Those who have commented that husband is the " Guru " of woman should read carefully the definitation of Guru.Today woman has shown great success in various field of management which a Man would never have done. Woman is basically " Shiv Shakti " & they have got equal rights to make guru. However looking at the current scenario of the various rape incidents,I would suggest woman should not go alone to a guru. She can go along with her husband or son or father. Regards Bhavin Ram Ram ------------------- : Shree Hari: Ram Ram 23rd July, 2009, Thursday, Shravan Shukla Pratipada, Vikram Samvat 2066, Guruvaar Question: Can a woman make someone a Guru? Swamiji: A woman should not make a Guru. If she has already made someone her Guru, she should give it up. For a woman, her husband itself is her Guru. Scriptures say : Gururnigirdvijaateenaam varnaanaam braahmano Guruh | Patireva Guruh streenaam sarvasyaabhyaagato Guruh || (Padmapuraan, 51/51, Brahmapuraan 80/47) Fire is regarded as Guru of the twice born, a Brahmin is the Guru of all the four varnas (castes), while only the husband is the Guru of a woman and a guest is Guru of all. Vaivaahiko vidhih streenaam sanskaaro vaidikah smrutah | Patisevaa gurau vaaso grahaarthongiparikriyaa || (Manusmriti 2/67) For women obedience to the marital rites itself is the vedic activity (sacred thread), serving her husband is the as good as going to the Gurukul (study) and household duties itself are her religious sacrifices (agnihotra). A woman should not develop any type of relationship with anybody other than her husband. It is my sincere prayer / request to the ladies not to get entangled (involved) with any Saadhu or monks. These days various types of frauds, deception and superficialities are taking place. I receive such letters and victimized women also come to me and explain their unfortunate experiences; from which it appears that in the present times it is disastrous for a woman to make a Guru or to develop relationship with any person other than her husband. A saadhu (monk) should also not initiate any woman as his disciple. At the time of initiation (dikshaa) ceremony a Guru is required to touch the heart area (chest), whereas for an renunciate (sanyaasi) it is strictly prohibited to touch a woman. In Srimad Bhagavata it is said - what to talk of woman in flesh and blood, an ascetic should not even touch a woman's statue (wooden figurine). Forget about touching with hands, even with his feet he should not touch. Padaapi yuvateen bhikshurn sparshed daaraveemapi | (Srimad Bhag. 11/8/13) The scriptures even go on to say - Maatraa swaastraa duhitraa vaa na viviktaasano bhavet | Balavaanindrayagraamo vidvaansmapi karshati || (Manu 2/215) " A man should not remain alone with his mother, sister, and daughter in a secluded place, because sensual temptations are very strong which even the learned persons cannot overcome or resist. " Sangh na kuryaatpramadaasu jaatu, yogasya paaram paramaarurukshah | matsevayaa pratilabdhaatmalaabho, vadanti yaa nirayadvaarmasya || (Srimad Bhag 3/31/39) " A person who wants to attain the supreme state of yoga or one who has realized the truth of the Self and the Non-Self by rendering service to Me, should never associate with women, because the women have been declared to be the open gateway to hell for such a person. " Vishwaamitraparaasharprabrutayo vaataambu parnaashanaa - stepi streemukhapankajam sulalitam drushtveva moham gataah | shaalyanam sughrutam payodtdhiyutam bhunjanti ye maanavaa steshaamindriynigraho yadi bhavedvindhyastaretsaagare || (Bhatruharishatak) " Even sages like Vishwaamitra and Paraasara etc., who led a life of extreme austerity merely by breathing air or drinking water and eating dry leaves, were deluded and could not resist the attraction on seeing the face of beautiful women . Then what to speak of those who eat rice with ghee (butter), milk and yoghurt? If they are able to keep their senses under control, then it is as good as the Vindhyachalan mountains swimming in the ocean. " In other words, it shall be a great wonder and rather an impossibility if people surrounded by all types of foods and luxuries can control their sensual cravings. In such a state, those who initiate (make disciples) youthful girls / women and keep them in their Ashramas (hermitages) for them to even attain liberation in their dreams seems unlikely to me. Thus being the case, how can you benefit through such persons? It is purely a breach of trust (cheating). From " Kyaa Guru Binaa Mukti Nahin? " pg 45-46 and " Is Salvation not Possible without a Guru? " pg 61-63 by Swami Ramuskhdasji. Ram Ram For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.