Sadhak and Dependence On Money - Share your Thoughts

August 4, 2009

- Shree Hari -

Namaste!

What a nice succinct little article. Maybe it would make an interesting threadin to reflect upon Revered Swamiji's words in this post, share theirexperience. Thus supporting those that are divided in their aspirations.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor

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NEW POSTING

Priy Mike

Everyone experiences what swamiji said, but doesnt give importance to it.

Like a mom feeds & does everything for the kids, but kids never give importance. It is only when one lacks it, that one begins to give importance that how cozy one was in mom's lap.

Same with Lord, we must ! I say must thank God for every pettiest thing that happens in our life.

Like we can eat, sleep, pass urine / stool, nourish our body by taking in breaths and the beating of this heart....

Tell me for how many times we thank God.....???

Truely, can we thank for as many times as heart beats in 24 hours.....

shouldnt we thank for this vital non voluantary function going on uninterruptedly for years..

can we imagine how kind God is ?...........

think man think !!!!!!

U will be overwhelmed by the reaction & will take a dip is lords Karuna (compassiona and mercy filled) saagar (ocean).

thanx

raja gurdasani

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Hari OmRight you are, Brother Mike. But one can enjoy deliberations on this topic much more when positioned in equanimity. Because, money indeed has Divine controls in it in the form of the very availability of it being made primarily out of your past deeds/prarabdha. Any efforts in present therefore prove futile in this human life; unless you are focussed only and only on that and seeds of karma have, with passage of time, started fructifying. But then what do you get or accomplish finally by this focus? ONLY THAT WHICH MUST LEAVE YOU !! Same focus if you turn towards God; you are free !!Any way, let us examine this typical, special attraction of humanity at large in modern times. How the Divine Laws work in case of ARTHA (material prosperity)? I have personally seen many colours of money. In fact, in Karma Yoga availability and non availability of money both become important tools in your hand to progress spiritually. I will, with permission and blessings of Brethren Sadhaks, share my views as well as some little known laws/principles in respect of money as understood by me from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj.First, as a law it is not necessary that whatever you earn, you are able to actually enjoy. ARTHA (material prosperity) and BHOGA (enjoyment) are two different divisions. By getting one, you need not necessarily get the other. For example, if I am a corporate executive by profession, than certain BHOGAS like comfortable air travel, stay in 5 star hotels etc come naturally to me without any need for possessing personal money to afford that. (Bhoga without Artha). Similarly, inspite of being a multi millionaire, I may not be able to eat sweets because of diabetes (Artha without Bhoga) !! Hence dependence upon it so that in old age we may live comfortably, is not at all a goal which has truth/wisdom/logic/ shruti/yukti/anubhuti supporting it.What do you say Sadhaks ? Please share your views too so that desire of Brother Mike may be given divine shape. What are your views, personal experience Brother Mike, on money?To be contd.... !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Dear Sadaks,

"Ananyachetaah"- "Satatam" -"Nityasahah" these 3 for a normal- NO One else- day one to death engaged in Paramathuma- from awakening in morning to night sleep remain with Paramathuma are said. Generally for bread winner of the family, school/collage goers busy to succeed in studies, housewife taking care of entire family, relations etc are definitely not going to succeed in any one of the 3. But the fact is not that. Yes, they can succeed much faster than a yogi. How?

1) Do not have to depend on money, support Etc- here NO ONE else says Sri Mikeji, was worldly people- not Guru. Wife to show dependence on husband- child to show dependence on parents- head of the family to show dependence on God. If Karma done with honesty and with Athuma Bava as Sri Narayanayethi Samarpayame, the result Sri Visnu gives. So do not depend on the result. It automatically comes, as in the case of doing wrong Karma results in suffering. So the head of the family goes to work, thinking the job God has given and it has to be done sincerely. Wife does all her Karmas thinking that her husband is swaroop of Bagavan, mother in law and father in law are Kaaran for her husband (Sati Savitri asks Yama to give first life to her in laws.), children she should care as God`s gift and teach them about GOD as Durva mother did. Children has to perfectly obey parents as God in disguise of their parents (As Sri Rama did)

2) Do all the worldly karmas but remember always it is in the service of Sriman Narayana till death.

3) From morning one wakes up say- Oh God you have gifted me this day- I shall endeavor the best to do all the Karmas I am destined, without grumble in ups and down, but with YOUR grace everything will be perfect as you said in Geetha (Yesterday went well- To day will go well- tomorrow will go well)

That is all one have to do and leave the remaining without least expectation of the results.

BUS DOOSRA KOYI NAYHI___YOU ARE SURE TO REACH GOD.

Baktha Gora, Sant Tukaram, Sakubai, Namadev, Etc had family and children but they did this only.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sadhaks these postings are going to 20,000 + sadhaks. Please do not post hastily. Kindly review and re-review for language /grammer / spelling / English meaning of word, possible Gita reference and whether the sentence makes sense. Please see these messages as "published and printed material" which are here to stay possibly even longer than the bodies / mind/ intellect that were instruments in writing them. Moderators are unable to devote the time to edit. PLEASE A SINCERE REQUEST!!!

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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: Shree Hari:Ram Ram

1st August, 2009, Saturday, Shravan Shukla Ekadashi, Vikram Samvat 2066,Shanivaar

First and the foremost we must resolve to have a firm aim in this life, and thatis - In this very lifetime I want to realize Paramatma. Whether the entireworld goes against me, but I want to progress spiritually ! Without having thisfirm resolve, bondage of worldly affairs will not leave. Let your aim, let yourgoal be only one, single-pointed (I want to attain Paramatama no matter what),then everything will be alright. One who has become a widow or a sadhu(ascetic) must become completely and entirely engaged in Paramatma (God). Besides this, what other work do you have? The necessities for sustaining thisbody will be met. How will they be met? This God only knows !

For the most part you are under the impression that - First I must arrange formy sustainance, let me accumulate money, thereafter I will engage in devotion,worship (bhajan) and contemplation (smaran). Such sentiments will not let youattain any spiritual progress. He who has hoarded money, they are not able tomake quick spiritual progress. The relationship with money will become anroadblock in your spiritual progress. He who has nothing, who does not knowwhere the meals will come from, such a person will progress far more quickly inthe spiritual path, then one who has money and also engages in spiritualdisciplines. The reason is that those who have money, within them there will bethat reliance on money. When there is reliance on money, then liberation willnot take place, this is a certainty. He who has no money, has no support, whodoes not have any certainty about the next meal and what he will eat? what willbe available tomorrow? such a one can progress very quickly. This point willnot appeal to you and you may not agree with it, but this has been examined andtested by me.

He who is relying on the support of money by having the mind-set that I willkeep this money in the bank etc, and live off the interest from that money, sucha person will not progress quickly. Because of dependence on money, dependenceon Bhagwaan (God) will not be exclusive. If there is dependence on anything atall, then it will not let you realize Paramatma (God). It appears as if once themoney issue is taken care off then we will peacefully engage in devotion andworship, but in reality, you will not be able to become free of worries.

Bhagwaan has said -"Ananyachetaah satatam yo maam smarati nityashah |Tasyaahum sulabhah Paarth nityayuktasya yoginah || (Gita 8/14)

"O' Paarth, the Yogi who thinks of Me, and undividedly remains absorbed in Me,to Him I am easily attainable." (Gita 8/14)

Here Bhagwaan has said three points - "AnanyachetaahSatatamNityashah". The meaning of these three points is -

1) "Ananyachetaah" - Besides Bhagwaan, there is dependence / reliance /support (sahaaraa) of NO ONE else;

2) "Satatam" - in other words, from the day that you become engaged inParamatma, from that day until death you remain engaged.

3) "Nityasahah" - i.e from morning to night, from the time one wakes up, tillthey fall asleep to remain attached to Paramatma.

By these three points Bhagwaan becomes easily attainable.

From "Sab Saadhano kaa Saar" in Hindi pg 60-61 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

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August 10, 2009

- Shree Hari -

Namaste!

What a nice succinct little article. Maybe it would make an interesting threadin to reflect upon Revered Swamiji's words in this post, share theirexperience. Thus supporting those that are divided in their aspirations.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor

--------------

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

The essential nature is that whatever happens (which we understand as happening because of our doing) or does not happen, both of these are not in our hands. And that which we think that we can thank and be grateful to Ishvar (God) for, that too is in God's hands, not in ours. (Gita 13/31).

In the life, the most precious is our lifeforce or breaths (which mistakenly we understand them to be us taking them in) that only comes in when the Ishvar (God) sends it in. These Gita Talks and the inquiry and expression of the insights / thoughts are also taking place by Ishvar (God), therefore they are not for getting hurt or for feeling offended and getting angry.

Very well, Vineet Sarvottam

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Hari OmBeautiful Brother Mike ! When you need money, it is not there. When you leave its desire, it falls at your feet. In my case, so long Dad was there, what money ? He went and there was need for money.So much so that, there existed nothing more important than money. So long need (desire) was there, obstacles upon obstacles ! The moment desire was gone- What money? I had a strange habit, as now all around me say. I never understood the value of money. I remember when I was hand to mouth (but refusing to be miser ) , I was summoned by my Nanaji ( Mom's Dad) in '90 ! He said- Look ! If you can go on foot, dont take bus ! If bus is available, dont take cab. If train is available, dont travel by air ! I nodded, but strange habit. Debts would mount but something inside was adamant. In '94, Nanaji expired. My Naani Maa ( maternal grand mom) told me that a day before his death Grand Pa told her- " I told Narottam not to travel by cabs and aircrafts. He does not heed. But I feel that whole of my life, I travelled on foot and in bus while he always travels in cabs and crafts" !! A real experience.I used to pray to Paramatma, something like this, when in helpless mode re finances : "Come On Lord. I have not come on this earth of my choice. You decided. You never asked me as to who should be my parents, what should be circumstances around me. You never gave me any options. Simply dropped me in this world ! No brothers, no sisters. You only chose my parents, situations, circumstances. You only decided to lift the shelter of my divine father from my head. I never failed in my duties. I passed all my exams in first attempt. Rank holder at India level. Where did I err? I have not done anything wrong. No ! But, you decided that I should not have a penny. I dont have any. But I refuse to compromise. I am your child. I am your part. I will not board a bus. I have a right to live as comfortably as I want. I will borrow but I will never compromise. I will do what I like to do ! "He listens to logic ! Believe me, Dear Sadhaks ! He only listens, no body else understands you ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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In life shakti, yukti, bhakti and mukti are all required. All thesethings have to be finely balanced to lead a happy life. Thus whilelife is impossible without money, money like all other things is anillusion or Maya. So while giving it its due importance, we shouldnever forget that our sole purpose of existence is to unite with theParmatma and that all other things are secondary, even money. Thisworld is a very humbling place. If a man thinks he is rich he willalways find someone who is richer and so on. So use shakti (strength)and yukti (cleverness) to make money but don't forget bhakti (devotionto God) to achieve the ultimate, mukti or liberation.Hari Shanker Deo

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PRIOR POSTING

Respected all,

This is the first time I am writing to the gita talk group and am immensely happy about it! I love reading every powerful value that is shared in the emails and also send it to lot of friends.

What touched me today and gave me an overwhelming feeling to write and share is the fact that I share the same thought process of a devotee expressed about - thanking God for the infinite things he gives us, to breathe, to be able to talk, walk...It is so true that Lord takes care of everything and all he asks i return is your trust and love for him.

Thank you for sharing such a wonderful thought here, I truly felt blessed reading it!

Thanking you,

Bhakti Shah------------------------

Hari Om

In this world the karmas give results based on intensity of efforts, focus and by following /adhering to scriptural disciplines.

In case of money, the easiest way to get it is to renounce it first. You ought to sow first than to reap. This world is "karmic".

A SEED, IF iT IS:-

PUT IN RETI, YOU GET KHETI. PUT IN MOUTH, YOU GET RETI

In the language of farming if you

put seed (money) in "reti"

(sand, earth; donot use money for selfish causes;(apparantly waste it); spend it on say charities or on welfare of others; spend for other than "me/mine") ;

there is "kheti"

(agricultural produce/result of farming, seed multiplied many times)

but if

you put seed in mouth

(eat it, consume it for yourself, not spend it for unselfish causes, spend for "me/mine" ) ,

it becomes "reti"

(Worthless, waste, no result, no multiplication )- stool, say the next day.

Timing of result: depends upon intensity/velocity; focus; on karma ! Some vegetables take weeks, some days, some months, some fruits years to ripe.

In ascertaining whether the karma of your spending the money should acquire "multiplier" state the key is your intention/bhava.

Give household expenses say to your wife (for meeting day to day exp) but do not consider wife to be me/mine-

your payment gets counted as charity/donation and acquires multiplier effect (although you have spent on me/mine)

but if

you do give considering her to be me/mine , the karma of renouncing the money does not acquire multiplier effect.

Key is - your bhava (sentiments) - did you renounce in favour of me/mine or in favour of others (giving pleasure/enjoyment to others ; not for me/mine ) ? For performance of duty/dharma or for "bhoga" ( deriving enjoyment out of it for me/mine) ?

To be contd

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadaks,The dependence NOT only on money, but anything or anybody on earth is all temporary illusions. Like Kunthi matha asked Bagavan a boon after the war. The boon, "Give me duk always". Another saint "Thank you Bagavan for NOT giving all that I wished"There were Bakthas who were thinking of God even in dream. One can thank God with Athuma power more than heart beat or for most pettiest thing. Vaishavite saint by name Namallwar said,"The water I drink, the food I eat, the objects I see, Etc are all for my Krishna" Bhogha and Artha are earnings of one, A Baktha can live without desire on Bhogha or Artha which are only obstacle for Bakthi.A woman was destined by Prarabdha not to bear child. She still had faith even after Sri Tukaram told her the words from Vital. Later Sri Ramanatha Swami visited Devu village. She helped Swamiji by providing cucumber and curd rice for 30 days during Sat Sangh. Last day the Swamiji gave prasad and said to 'give it to her children". She cried. Swamiji new the sorrow of her`s. Swamiji took some yellow rice and sprinkled on the head of the lady and said, "Puthravathi Bava" She delivered a child. Sri Tukaram amazed, ran to Vital and asked how this happened. Vital said to Sri Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the woman, You only asked me her fate". Sadaks all of you know that Bagavan can turn the world upside down for HIS baktha.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste !

From my rough and ready childhood, never had money to spare, got use to livinghand to mouth.As a young man I remember lying on ice trying to get gas to deliquefyin the pipes, so we could cook and have heat in our caravan that was home to ourlittle family, never thought of money too much, pretty use to being hard up.About fifteen years ago went through something. As a result something happenedto my priorities. Decided to work at being made redundant, we realized we wouldbe worse off financially. I could have chosen to battle on and chase themythical crock of gold, but it was not in my heart.Without going into lengthy details, from that point on things seemed to justfall into place.Money is there, not much, but much better off than I dreamed.Now we can offer our skills as a service to the community, be there to help inour humble way.(Our by the way is my beloved wife and I).So I suppose financially I've got what I need, spiritually I am getting what Ilong for.

Om Shaanti,

Mike Keenor

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Priy MikeEveryone experiences what swamiji said, but doesnt give importance to it.Like a mom feeds & does everything for the kids, but kids never give importance. It is only when one lacks it, that one begins to give importance that how cozy one was in mom's lap.Same with Lord, we must ! I say must thank God for every pettiest thing that happens in our life.Like we can eat, sleep, pass urine / stool, nourish our body by taking in breaths and the beating of this heart....Tell me for how many times we thank God.....??? Truely, can we thank for as many times as heart beats in 24 hours.....shouldnt we thank for this vital non voluantary function going on uninterruptedly for years..can we imagine how kind God is ?...........think man think !!!!!! U will be overwhelmed by the reaction & will take a dip is lords Karuna (compassiona and mercy filled) saagar (ocean).thanxraja gurdasani---------------------------

Hari Om

Right you are, Brother Mike. But one can enjoy deliberations on this topic much more when positioned in equanimity. Because, money indeed has Divine controls in it in the form of the very availability of it being made primarily out of your past deeds/prarabdha. Any efforts in present therefore prove futile in this human life; unless you are focussed only and only on that and seeds of karma have, with passage of time, started fructifying. But then what do you get or accomplish finally by this focus? ONLY THAT WHICH MUST LEAVE YOU !! Same focus if you turn towards God; you are free !!

Any way, let us examine this typical, special attraction of humanity at large in modern times. How the Divine Laws work in case of ARTHA (material prosperity)? I have personally seen many colours of money. In fact, in Karma Yoga availability and non availability of money both become important tools in your hand to progress spiritually. I will, with permission and blessings of Brethren Sadhaks, share my views as well as some little known laws/principles in respect of money as understood by me from teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj.

First, as a law it is not necessary that whatever you earn, you are able to actually enjoy. ARTHA (material prosperity) and BHOGA (enjoyment) are two different divisions. By getting one, you need not necessarily get the other. For example, if I am a corporate executive by profession, than certain BHOGAS like comfortable air travel, stay in 5 star hotels etc come naturally to me without any need for possessing personal money to afford that. (Bhoga without Artha). Similarly, inspite of being a multi millionaire, I may not be able to eat sweets because of diabetes (Artha without Bhoga) !! Hence dependence upon it so that in old age we may live comfortably, is not at all a goal which has truth/wisdom/logic/ shruti/yukti/anubhuti supporting it.

What do you say Sadhaks ? Please share your views too so that desire of Brother Mike may be given divine shape. What are your views, personal experience Brother Mike, on money?

To be contd.... !