Guest guest Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram Hare Krishna ! Wish you all a very Happy Janmashtami ! Shree Ladoo Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Biharilaal ki Jai ! Shree Krishna Kahnaiyaa Laal ki Jai ! Shree Giridhar Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Radhe-Krishna ki Jai ! Jai Ho! Jai Ho! Jai Ho ! Ram Ram ------------------- respected I need clarification re non-violence In Bhagavad Gita Lord tells Arjuna that you are Kshatriya, and hence you will fight. You simply cannot avoid fighting. Is it that we are born to do violence? On the other hand there is proclamation - Ahimsa Parmo Dharam Gita says that we must fight to uphold righteousness. In today's war both parties claim that they are just and right the other person is unjust. How do we ordinary people decide who is right and who is wrong in family matters also do we go by the same principle do we allow violence if the other member of family is unjust? Were Mahatma Gandhi, Christ and Buddha wrong when they advocated non-violence ? How best can we promote non-violence in today's world? Violence begets violence and we are witnessing a huge loss of life and property! with respectful pranams dr badlani ----- Dear Sir,My sincere thanks for the good gesture shown by you for not to purchase any leather on the birth day of Lord Krishna.Besides,it is desirable to prevent the slaughtering of animals. Historians say that slaughtering was banned during post Vedic period (ie. during Bramhana period), due to accute shortage of cow on account of Vedic sacrifices. And thereafter begins the Upasana in Vedic religion.During my visit to famous Gorokhsha nath temple at Gorokhpur of UP, i saw how the temple authorities are taking care of Cows. When a calf is born, the milk before usage for domestic purpose,it is offerred to famous Siddha Yogi Goroksha Nath as a mark of respect to Him.Lord Krishna fromhis child hood was associated with cows, His famous picture with "Banshi" (Flute),in standing posture along with "GOMATA"(Cow) is in the minds of every house hold.Now again time has come to stop this slaughtering of animals. At this juncture your proposal is the beginning, I also appeal to all irrespective of caste,community, religion, to come forward to make the resolution a grand Success.With best wishesDr. Rajeev Agnihotri ------- Dear friends, HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAM HARE RAM RAM RAM HARE HARE"" Govind or keeper of cows was the name given to lord Krishna. In India 3,00,000 cows are slaughtered in a year. Yes we can stop it , how "Give up using leather bags/office bags, jackets, purses, belts from now." Dont gift leather and take gifts of leather" Help save the cow and animals, birds etc. make the lord happy by loving and saving cow, THE ANIMAL MOST DEAR TO HIM. The Lords names are gopal, govind, gorakhsakh etc.makan chor. will god like this slaughter. no. stop it make it a janamasthmi resolution to stop purchasing leather. Jai shree Krishna. K.P (Kalki) ------------------------------ While appreciating detailed expalanation given from Vedic Text and Manu Samhita,from strictly scientific point of view, all living creatures are in ecologicalbalance - helping each other to live. Even a snake or a scorpion is not forkilling human beings,but for protecting crops or for removing harmful insects inthe case of scorpion. Only food grains,its accompanying grass are having lowestgrade of consciousness and can be eaten with least disturbance to theeco-system. A fruit does not disturb eco-system at all when eaten after takingout seeds;so also milk. It is so kind of Nature, that when she produces foodgrains for human beings,it also produces grass for animals.Bhagwan Mahavir's injunction in this matter is that although life iseverywhere,any moving life should be avoided from food, because at the time ofdeath,it experiences visible pain. So those who want to pursue Spiritual Pathwhether by way of God or Self Realisation have to develope very subtle mind andNon-Vegetarian food will interfere in this work.To my mind vegetarianism should be supported by a rigorous practice of removingHatred, Greed,Arrogance,Jealousy etc. to produce the most beautiful flower ofcreative Human Beings. These subtle Negative influences are also damagingEco-system and therefore are also Non-Vegetarian in Nature. India in the pasthave suffered seriously by sticking to vegetarianism and ignoring these subtleemotions. Both should run pari-passu.Jayantilal Shah-------------------- Hari Om Let there be clarity at least on one point on the subject. There are three elements with reference to the non vegetarians. One - who is getting killed. Two- One who is killing . Three – Paramatma , who is a disinterested witness and controller of universe by Divine Laws through Mother Nature. As far as one who is getting killed is concerned, he is the happiest, because his sins have erased and now he is on a journey towards the north. As far as God is concerned, nothing is killed, every Jeeva is immortal. But what about the murderer? Being a human, can he go northwards ? NO ! NEVER !! What does the butcher think that Law of Karma will spare him? NO ! NEVER !! Swamiji once stated ( when he was told that the cows are being transported to abbatoir, and the person who has sold them is considering those cows as "fruits" of Karma, just as a fisherman considers the collection as "results of his efforts of fishing" ) ……. This is not result… this is KARMA ! Result will follow afterwards. Let the non vegetarians note that Law of Karma will never spare them and they will have to take birth as chickens, goats, fish and cows, pigs and lambs and will have to go through the same agony and pain which they have caused to innocent creatures. Let them never forget that in Law of Karma too there are provisions for interest, and compounding of interest. Rests there also of compounding the interest can be breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks…time intervals of compounding ! What are you doing O Non Vegetarians ?? After having got human birth , you want to become animals ! If you eat animals, what else can you become ? Words cant describe, what will be the result of such tendencies? Absolutely ruthless is Law Of Karma, O Non Vegetarians ! Mercilessness is at the roots there ! When it grips you, don't expect any concessions. There is no provision made in Law of Karma of any exemptions. In terms of intensity, velocity, and certainty…. You will have to go through the pains again and again, which you are inflicting on innocent animals ! Let there be total clarity on this. No body will lose anything in the process…except the meat eater, trader and enjoyer ! Pleasure of tongue ? What if you are made a frog? Beautiful , long tongue? What is wrong? Don't think that you are powerful and therefore can kill weak ! Think , one who has made you powerful, can He not turn the tables? Can He not make you weak, and other as powerful ? What will happen to you on that day ? Don't you see the sufferings around you? Law of Karma… learn to worry about it ! Absolutely ruthless, precise and merciless is that Law, O Non Vegetarians !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------- Gita bhaktas; Re: Violence A knife in a surgeon's hand is totally different from that of a thief. Use of a weapon by those directed by God is not killing.' Na hanyate hanyamane na shariree'. Krishna directed Arjuna and removed the unnecessary paddy in the field of Kurukshetra. In the case of the world today it may seem that one religion is pitted against another, but can we say that the soldiers are obedient to the will of the Supreme? Without the presence of the Lord on the battlefield the will of God has to be heard from His true representatives. Those who are actually following the Gita to the word , whose lives are living examples of surrender and service to Shree Krishna , who are done with material lust and greed, who are devoted without motive can be the perfect mediums for knowing the Lord's will. But politicians motivated by greed and envy can hardly be the perfect men to direct a nation. The leader of the country should be the most intelligent devotee. He should be a devotee first and politician last. We should see to it that proper persons are put in leadership roles as Shree Krishna also saw to it that the Pandavas were given the power of ruling. We should know the character of the men we vote into office. Men lacking in self-control, can we expect them to be able to spend our tax-money wisely? Can they be followed if they themselves are going to hell by their behavior? We are living in Kali yuga and such a time is beset with hypocrisy and quarrel. To revolt against such acts, following the words of Shree Krishna and other great Souls is our only hope for the world future. With the blessings of Shree Krishna, may we be inspired to bring forth leaders based on dharma, because if we do not take the role of leaders then we have to accept the leadership of adharmic men. Avadhoot---------- Hare KrishnapranamsSome references related to violence & non-violence. Hare Krishna.1) DESTRUCTIVE WORK IS BASED ON VIOLENCE - Irresponsible work is destructive because it destroys the regulative principles of scriptural injunction. It is often based on violence and is distressing to other living entities. Such irresponsible work is carried out in the light of one's personal experience. This is called illusion. And all such illusory work is a product of the mode of ignorance.2) IT IS A SYMPTOM OF ANGER - The eight symptoms of anger are slander, rash action, enmity, envy on seeing the progress of others, bearing grudges, wasting money, harsh words, unjustified violence.3) A DUTY OF A BRAHMACARI IS TO LEARN NON-VIOLENCE - "To serve the spiritual master the disciple should learn cleanliness, austerity, tolerance, silence, study of Vedic knowledge, simplicity, celibacy, non-violence, and equanimity in the face of material dualities such as heat and cold, happiness and distress4) Non-violence is the main religious duty of a sannyasa5) ONE FREE FROM VIOLENCE IS A VAISNAVA - Those who are free from lust, anger, arrogance, violence, greed, delusion, are Vaisnavas.6) WHERE ARGUMENTS FAIL VIOLENCE IS NECESSARY - Lord Krsna and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal friend, had no need to fight in the Battle of Kuruksetra, but they fought to teach people in general that violence is also necessary in a situation where good arguments fail.7) VIOLENCE IS NOT PRESENT IN THE BODY OF KRISHNA BUT WHEN SOMETIMES IS THEN IT BECOMES AN EXCELLENT QUALITY - The eighteen condemned qualities of illusion, laziness, error, taste for material enjoyment, intense lust, fickleness, arrogance, envy, violence, exertion, lamentation, dishonesty, anger, longing, fear, illusion of supporting the whole world, partiality, and dependency on others are not present in the body of the Lord. But in compliance to the krpa sakti however, even these qualities become present sometimes in the various avataras such as Rama and Krsna and become realized by the devotees as excellent qualities. (Madhurya Kadambini 8)To be continuedard (avadhuta raya) ---- Dear Sadhak There are three types of food namely Satwics ( Refer Bhgavat Geeta Chapter VIII verse 8 Rajsick food verse 9 Tamasics verse 10 The creation of ideas and knowledge depends upon type of food we eat. This is the reason why we eat Satwics food and we avoid meat and other non vegetarian food. In addition, the killing of animals which is a violent act. This I know about your question. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ------- Thank you for sharing. If I may add: Should we notaddress and resolve who we really are first so thatall these seeming problems of violence cease? Problemsare wrong perceptions of ourselves as being separateindividuals, right? This ignorance leads to allproblems including violence, right?Why do we restrict non-violence to only Brahmacharis,and Sanyasis only? Shouldn't all of us Grahasthas alsobe non-violent?WHen we are free from Violence why call us Vaisnavas?Isn't our true identity is Consciousness-Atman? DOn'twe have to be free from being Vaisnavas too?When we realize our true nature as suddha Atmanexperiencially, which is all intelligence, then thisIntelligence is going to act thru us as it did thruArjuna and Krishna in the battle field. We need notrevert to violence when arguments fail, but we need toact in accordance with this intelligence which mayinspire our body-mind instruments to take action, beit of seemingly violence or non-violence. I thinnkthis way......Pratap Bhatt --------------------------- Mr Bhatts suggestion is a wakeup call. It always has been. Sharing that wisdom is the highest service because that is the real desire of Consciousness. Every parent, every teacher must be encouraged to determine the truth by experience. It is possible, just by listening to an enlightened master; like Arjun listened to Krishna. Anup Wadhwa ------------------------- Hari OM. Bhagavad Gita according to me teaches and trains us to manage the three gunas. Krishna talks about a stable mind. We can be unaffected by anything that happens around us and this can happen only when we are in Nirguna. A state of non Violence is the best situation. But when everyone did everything to curb the activity of Pandavas, when Dhuryodhana acted as a beast and humiliated Dhraupadi, Krishna asks Arjuna to take the weapon against adharma. Hari Om Usha Sridhar ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 respected I need clarification re non-violence In Bhagavad Gita Lord tells Arjuna that you are Kshatriya, and hence you will fight. You simply cannot avoid fighting. Is it that we are born to do violence? On the other hand there is proclamation - Ahimsa Parmo Dharam Gita says that we must fight to uphold righteousness. In today's war both parties claim that they are just and right the other person is unjust. How do we ordinary people decide who is right and who is wrong in family matters also do we go by the same principle do we allow violence if the other member of family is unjust? Were Mahatma Gandhi, Christ and Buddha wrong when they advocated non-violence ? How best can we promote non-violence in today's world? Violence begets violence and we are witnessing a huge loss of life and property! with respectful pranams dr badlani ----- NEW POSTING Jai Shree Hari,First of all, "fighting" is not always a "violence". It just depends upon the role of a person and the circumstances. For example, "fighting" in a battle for a soldier is his duty. A reader of the Bhagvad Gita will never get even a rare thought for supporting or encouraging violence. Few people, without really understanding, refer to the verse 2:37 and assume that there is some message of violence in that verse. In that verse, the message from the Lord Krishna to Arjun is "If you are killed, you will obtain heaven otherwise you will enjoy the earth upon winning the battle. So stand up and resolve to fight". In this verse, the Lord Krishna is NOT asking/encouraging Arjun to kill kauravas but He is just reminding Arjun, who is a kshatriya (i.e. soldier), about his own true duty (i.e. " fight" without looking at its result) who was getting deluded just because of his own relatives were fighting from the other side. A lot of people understands the "violence" only at gross level but the Bhagvad Gita, in the verse 13:28, says "He, who sees the same supreme Lord equally everywhere (including in all beings) realizing this he does not destroy himself by the self, therefore he reaches the supreme goal". In other words, if we are not having the same feeling of supreme love in all beings, we might be destroying ourselves. So, the Bhagvad Gita not only condemns the violence at gross level but it also warns if it happen at subtle or causal level.The main message of Bhagvad Gita is to realize the TRUE SELF which is beyond bodies and their associated worldly tags/relationships. There are many paths (mainly Karmayog, Gyaanyog and Bhaktiyog) prescribed in Bhagvad Gita to achieve that. One of them is to follow the duty associated with a role (or multiple roles) assigned without any attachment/desire. In all the paths, the Bhagvad Gita teaches people to attain the same feeling of supreme love in not only human beings but in all the beings and everywhere (Refer: 4:35, 5:7, 5:18, 6:29-32,..... ) and always be involved for the welfare of all the beings (5:25, 12:4). If this is the message, I do not know how can one, following the Gitaji, even think of supporting the violence, forget about being involved. The Lord Krishna, in the verse 16:2, describes the "non-violence" as one of the divine qualities helpful in attaining the supreme goal which is the target of the followers of the Gitaji. If we believe that Gandhiji adopted the path of non-violence during freedom movement in India, we should also not forget his love and respects for the Gitaji. Here are his few words by Mahatma Gandhiji about Gitaji:---------------The Gita is the universal mother. She turns away nobody. Her door is wide open to anyone who knocks. A true votary of Gita does not know what disappointment is. He ever dwells in perennial joy and peace that passeth understanding. But that peace and joy come not to skeptic or to him who is proud of his intellect or learning. It is reserved only for the humble in spirit who brings to her worship a fullness of faith and an undivided singleness of mind. There never was a man who worshipped her in that spirit and went disappointed. I find a solace in the Bhagavad-Gita that I miss even in the Sermon on the Mount. When disappointment stares me in the face and all alone I see not one ray of light, I go back to the Bhagavad-Gita. I find a verse here and a verse there , and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming tragedies -- and my life has been full of external tragedies -- and if they have left no visible or indelible scar on me, I owe it all to the teaching of Bhagavad-Gita. ---With Love and Regards!Niteesh Dubey Hari OmI too feel a mineness and respect for Hinduism and am proud to be a Hindu. I know it is a special privilege to be born in Bharat and to naturally follow Sanatan Dharma. But the answer to the Q raised has been correctly given by Sarvottamji . You want to promote non violence; be non violent yourself by mind, speech and actions. It is Raam Baan medicine. Nothing can be better than this.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------- "Ahimsha Parama Dharma" is the eternal truth and it is beyond doubt and violence begets violence.It is due to God's own law "every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". It is superior to Violence, whatever be the condition. Before going to open this topic, Have we asked ourselves any time "Why we should follow Gita? What is the purpose of writing Gita? readers may please ask their own heart"I am not going to tell anything on the advice given in Gita or any other religious texts.Let us only look at the leaders of Non violence.1) Adinath, Parshanath,Mahavir , they are Jain leaders. They preach non violance, and there is no violence ,wherever they settled ,whether it is India or abroad.2) Goutam Buddha the founder of Buddhism, preached "Ahimsha Parama Dharma".The most glorious period was the period of Bddhism. They were the founders of "Convent system or built up of Maths', the education was made public based on merit. Even to day it is existing in many countries of the world.3) Jesus christ ,the founder of Christianity. In India they are in sizable strength, but there is no news of violence. It is having the largest followers in the world.4) there are many others,like Adi sankaracharya, Madhavacharya, Chaitanya mahaprbhu, Ramkrishna paramahamsa. Guru nanak, sant kabir, sant Tukaram etc.The leaders/prophets who preached non violence are all naked Faquir,lead simplest way of living.. However they have changed the history of mankind in the world, they are still remembered with due respect and honor by all communities irrespective of his race,caste,community.Therefore it is proved again and again that "NON VIOLENCE" is the best for "live and let live others".With kind regards.Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri --- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Dear BV Avdhoot,Namaste!I like to reflect upon parts of your closing sentence. As I spent 12 years inthe Military, I am trying not take it out of context.'As a final reminder only those who are in command of their mind and sensesshould be obeyed. If a commander orders one to fight but does not lead thebattle then he should be abandoned. If we do not stand up for our principles ofdharma then we will have to bow to someone else's version of dharma.'So I will try let you see things through my military eyes of past years:Although not my core training I achieved marksman status, I could shoot a personthrough the heart at kilometer. Never called on to perform such thing. I hadgrave misgivings even in my young days.I could work on sophisticated electronics that could ensure many could die,can't say any more.I had no way of knowing who had their right minds in command.(What am I psych orwhat?).Let me tell you how I dealt with this situation, I carried on following orders,never broke the rules, well almost never.But because where my heart was leading me, I said the wrong things, mixed withthe wrong crowd, read the wrong books. And so hallelujah I was shuffled off towork at highly secure establishment, with all the other wackos and clowns, andboffins. This was not a ploy by me, just my pure honesty. When my service timewas up I was happy, never thought of extending, mind you they were probably gladto get rid of another clown.Sometimes it takes a while for one to discover oneself, and it takes a while forthat Divine Steamroller to iron out the crinkles.Looking back, compassion was always there, square peg in a round hole.But I tell you this I absolutely refuse to judge others.Because subtle violence can lay in judgment. (Judge not that thou be judged).My caste is human being, my Dharma is to love GOD.Om Shanti,Mike Keenor ------------------- ADVESGTAA SARVABHOOTHANAAM Viji vkn -------------------- Dear Badlani, Since it is family problem the reason for problem might be money,asset or ego or any other worldly things .As per Geetha give up all these worldly boga and dont afraid of deatching from them for devoting your life peacefully by doing your profession and satsangh. If money or ego is lost nothing is lost . If morality is lost every thing is lost. In the Kaliyaga Lord Krishna told Thavidammal ( a lady who is able to speak Him ) not to eat vegetable as we are doing himsa to plant system. Thavidammal is also not uprooting any plant to avoid himsa. Then you think of doing himsa by violence with anybody that too with your affectionate family ? Better give up their share more than they ask ? Again one's planet position also to be looked into. If you have bad dasa buddhi time then devote more spiritually by chanting Nama s of Lord or Nama Jaba atleast in Lakhs. Say goodby such family members by any more arguements .Forgive them . Always Truth will prevail and later they will come to you after your behaviour. Use your fullest violence to fight with our own ego,lustfullness, hatred ,jealousy in all your strength. . . With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, --------------------- Dear friends, As stated by my respected friend as "Gita says that we must fight to uphold righteousness", The question is who dfine this meaning of "righteousness"? Definitely not the defeated one, but the winer. Proverb says "JO JITA OHI SIKANDER". However,Vedic literature says it is the duty of Kshatriya to protect Brahmin(Manu smriti). Gita said it is the duty of Khsatriyas, on the other hand in the same Mahabharata,we find Dronacharya, Asaththama who were Brahmins performed better than kshtriyas. Karna as defined as "SUTA PUTRA" during Marriage of Droupadi was also a great hero, who was killed very trechearisly. All most all the generals were killed in a similar fashion. Hence there is a lot of cofusion. Obviously, a unity is difficulty,when there is a confusion. Hence the cofusion may be either removed or deleted from our literature,and redifine Hinduism. I think that is the need of the day. More and more people are getting education and they will not keep quite in future. hence I feel, the learned people may kindly look into this issue,to bring unity among Hindus. With kind regards Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri ----- PRIOR POSTING Dear ones, Namaste!As Vineetji says profoundly, being non-violent yourself is the answer to "how to best promote non-violence." Mike says "We need to find these voices within our own hearts,we need to believe enough in justice, love, tolerance". So true, sadhakas!Suppose there are 100 people in a village, and each one hears this message and sees the truth in it and takes to the heart, the entire village is free of violence! We are the world, so whatever we do affects the world in some measure. Therefore, we must take responsibility for our actions!Another point: An action is not always good or bad in itself, be it that of seeming violence!It is the circumstances and intention that make it so. Knife in the hands of a doctor to operate on patient is good act, while in the hands of a killer is evil. When one's Karmas are guided by righteousness(Dharma), and above all with non-doership, action will be guided by Divinity, based on the situation on hand and for greater good of the society at large! Apparent "person" is excuse!For such wisdom to flow in life, one must live righteously all one's life!Pandavas, and Lord Krishna made all sincere attempts to peacefully settle the dispute in the family, but apparently failed. Pandavas sacrificed, acted righteously, and were guided by wisdom in the form of Krishna to act for greater good! Kauravas ignored the Lord.The act may be labeled superficially as violent, but was it?Was it even personal, selfish on the part of Pandavas? Who were killing who?It was all Bhagwaan fighting, killing and getting killed, crying with victims, winning and losing at the same time just as in the Play of life(Leela)!This is what He told Arjun in Gita, particularly in Ch 2.Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt ----------------------- Patanjali yoga Sutra defines non-violence as 'Vaira Tyaga' i.e. not to haverevenge is Non-Violence. Bhagvad -Geeta also takes the same position; NivairahSarva Bhuteshu,yah sah mam eti Pandava. Verse 55/11.What we call violence is a grosser type of violence whose roots are in subtlevioleence in the form of enmity in the Human Mind. It may be due to Hatred anddeep rooted prejudices as we see in terorists or in grred as we saw in two worldwars.Violence also takes place due to arrogance and expectation. They show the formof insult and contempt in case of arrogance and persecution in case ofexpectation. Many young married women are driven to suicide because of too muchexpectation from the in-laws. Whole message of Bhagvad-Geeta is to remove thissubtle violence from Human Mind and gross violence will reduce automatically .Mahavir Buddha or Jesus Christ all worked on this subtle violence and gave agross model of Non-Violence to illustrate the results of Subtle Violence. ShantiParva of Mahabharat has also dealt with this subject.So let us be clear about the true meaning of Non-violence. Practice can followonly after understanding is clear. Otherwise born in a Jain family, I saw manyof my family members not killing an ant but exploiting a poor farmer thusmissing the point totally. Jayantilal Shah ------------------------ Dear devotees of Vedic-dharma;I have received the latest post regarding non-violence. In a world where everyone wants peace such a principle is needed. However, to guard peace there needs be a force in place of valiant men. Whoever would disturb the peace should face punishment in public view. The citizens should not fear from any harm at any time with a powerful system of organized policing. But the police must first see to the protection of the saintly. Without visionaries at the top of society who are cent-per-cent pure in mind, body and words there is no use to society. It is just a polished version of cat and dog society.Arjuna is chastised by God for not doing his duty in fighing adharma. Part of dharma is defence of the principle. If you cannot fight for your dharma then you will loose it. Even if you loose in the fight for dharma you win, according to God or Bhagavan. Arjuna had Krishna to guide him as to right and wrong. We have to therefore submit to Krishna's representative, the perfect devotee of Krishna. Such a devotee can say whether fighting is necessary or not. All diplomacy must be used in dealing with antagonists but when all fails we must then use physical force with men trained to do so. An army or unit of force must encorporate those inclined to protect and defend. We should not conscript into an army those whose nature's are different, such as intellectuals, farmers, workers and businessmen. In battle only these warriors should fight. Innocent women,elders and children should not be involved or hurt in the least. Those who do so will suffer terrible punishment in hell, unless the state government can capture and try them.You cannot overcome aggressors with non-violence. Subhash Bose got the British out of India, not Ghandi. As far as peace, there are many who will promote it in their words but not deeds. See how even top religious leaders feast on animal flesh. They do not see God in the hearts of living beings or respect life. For this act they must suffer in hell more than others because of brandishing a religious exterior. If we are to remove violence in our hearts then we must first give up enmity towards all living beings. The animals are our friends. We should give them love and affection. If they are violent towards us as are snakes and tigers, then only can we kill them. Otherwise, they should have rights to life.Tyranny must be removed from human society and to die for that principle Krishna encouraged Arjuna to fight.Yet, He said to fight as per your dharma but not forget the Supreme Lord at any time. Thus, in peace or war one must remember God. In this age of fighting or Kali yuga the recommended means of remmebering God is to chant the holy names of the Lord in congregation. As a final reminder only those who are in command of their mind and senses should be obeyed. If a commander orders one to fight but does not lead the battle then he should be abandoned. If we do not stand up for our principles of dharma then we will have to bow to someone else's version of dharma. Fight for what is right but with deference to the opinion of those who are righteous in thought, word and deed.Hari Om Tat SatBV Avdhoot--------- Dear friends,Let me reproduced below what Mr.. Bhat said: "Dear Sadhak-insight Please adopt nonviolence as taught by Lord Buddha and Mahavir Swami.When it comes to our duty we have to perform our duty first and then nonviolence. This is taught by Lord Krishna to Vir Arjun in Bhagvata Geeta This is a short understanding of this question. Truly yours S S Bhatt"The teachings of Lord Mahavir and Lord Buddha on "Non violance" is the only true,as it is for self defence and not to grab some ones resources and applied to all human races.What has been told Arjuna in Bhagavata Gita is the "Dharma' of a Kshatriya as per the four fold caste system , defined in the Vedic religion and the dharmas are different for different castes as per Vedic religion. the dharma of a person of Sudra varna is different.dharma of brahmins are different as also the dharma of Vaishya is different than others.This is the fundamental difference between a Non Vedic religion and Vedic religion as far as "Dharma" is concerned per my understanding.With regards. Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri ---- Dear Sadhak-nisight Previously I gave my remarks.Mr Dilip says the right thing.It is time of the survival of Hindu sect in India.Hindus have to stick to the principles of injhustice.When they are pushed to injustice they ought to fight for their rights This is also a type of duty under Bhgavata Gita. At present think of unity amongst all Hindus Whenever any injustice challenge them to the courts and get its judgements Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ----- ======================================= PRIOR POSTING shree hari: ram ram. question is "how to best promote non-violence?" answer is "by just being non-violent" as per verse 21 chapter 3 of Gitajee. vineet, Sarvottam. ----------- -Shree Hari-Namaste!Look at the staggering words from Mahatma Gandhi, advice to a Hindu that hadlost his son to the mob, advising him to go and find an orphaned Muslim boy..."Bring up that boy like you would your own son, but bring him up with the Muslimfaith to which he was born. Only then will you find that you can heal your pain,your anger, and your longing for retribution". The commentator of this article went on to say,"There are no voices likeGandhi's that we hear today. We need to find these voices within our own hearts,we need to believe enough in justice, love, tolerance".The Dalai Lama:"In order to achieve genuine, lasting world peace, based on compassion we need asense of universal responsibility. First, we have to try innerdisarmament-reducing are own anger and hatred while increasing mutual trust andhuman affection".Jesus:"But I say unto you , Love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you".There are many that would judge one, but they are caught up in their own rigidthoughts/agendas, millions have died because of such thinking. Countries,families and friendship destroyed over perception.A long time ago a read a book by Swami Vivekananda,(have to rely on my memory),thus it is not verbatim, but he likened peoples perception of what they considerthe truth, as like looking at a diamond. Depending where one is positioned onewould see a different colour reflected from its surface. He commented but thewise understand it is all colours, brilliant pure white.Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 verse 29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those whoworship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.One must change ones inner sentiment, to a sense of tolerance to what after allis perceived differences, between, people, race, and creeds. This would radiatean aura of peace around one, that others will feel, and would start to changeones own personal world.And when some force is needed to put things to right, it should be done withwisdom, never with vengeance.Om Shanti,Mike Keenor ---------------------- Dear Sadhak-insight Please adopt nonviolence as taught by Lord Buddha and Mahavir Swami.When it comes to our duty we have to perform our duty first and then nonviolence.This is taught by Lord Krishna to Vir Arjun in Bhagvata Geeta This is a short understanding of this question. Truly yours S S Bhatt------------------------ Dear Sadaks,Arjuna refused war to avoid violence. But Sri Krishna said to wage war. Deep studies reveal, that if Duryodhan was spared, he would have created TOTAL injustice to humanity. He was from young wanted wealth, power and everyone to surrender to him. He started poisioning with Laddu on Beema, went upto killing Pandavas in Wax house, tricked Pandavas in Gambling and made them wanderers, sent people and planned several times to kill Pandavas. He was also very bad in character with regards to woman. Very egoistic in nature. Very adament in disobeying parents, Gurus and elders. After nearly a very long rope given by God, he came to war. Sri Krishna while approaching Duryodhan for peace, and asked only 5 villages for Pandavas. But Duryodhan said that even an inch land will not be given, that too after Vanavas & Agnathavas for years. In these circumstances what any one of today Sadak, will advise. Let Duryodhan Go. Fine. He would have kill more people who comes on his way, lift woman who he likes, grab anyone wealth, horbour kings to his oppertunity like Karn, teach all bad principles Etc and today what politicians are there would have been 50 years ago. Then in that case what could have been our fate today. Yadha Yadha Dharmasya----, is Bagavan grace to stabilise peace on earth in disguise of Pandavas war. Now Bagavan is come as Kalki Avathar.For normal man, he should always remain in Dharmic way, even with his children and NOT spare them when they are very wrong, knowingly commiting mistakes. Sri Krishna DOES help.My son in 8th class copied and the headmaster suspended him from further exams. I was called and expected to ask excuse. The headmaster was teacher when I was his student. I told headmaster that suspending my son from class is insufficient, and suspend him from school. All my family members were angry on me. My daughter in her collage misbehaved with her professor (Who was actually wrong), but I told my daughter to express her sincere pardon. My daughter did for my fear. You know my son only high school left, but Sri Krishna put him in business earning well. My daughter head of department in Barcleys bank- London drawing good amount though she is only B.Sc physics. Sri Krishna is with us and we all live happily. To day my children teaches their children strict disciple in living Dharmic way. 3 grandchildren, daughter, son and daughter in law and my wife adhere to Ekadasa Upavas. Grandchildren even care for ants welfare. Live Dharmic and be happy, as Sri Krishna is swaroop of Dharma.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------- Non violence is the ideal but sometimes violence is necessary. InIndia we have the worst type of criminals, murderers, rapists,terrorists etc.. There was this terrorist attack in Mumbai. How can wedeal with such people without violence? We have the example of LordKrishna's exhortation to Arjun to fight the forces of evil and destroythem even though they were his own kith and kin, which resulted in thebeautiful book Gita. Happy Janamaasthami. Hari Shanker Deo --------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hare Krishna ! Wish you all a very Happy Janmashtami ! Shree Ladoo Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Biharilaal ki Jai ! Shree Krishna Kahnaiyaa Laal ki Jai ! Shree Giridhar Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Radhe-Krishna ki Jai ! Jai Ho! Jai Ho! Jai Ho ! Ram Ram ------------------- Dear Sir,My sincere thanks for the good gesture shown by you for not to purchase any leather on the birth day of Lord Krishna.Besides,it is desirable to prevent the slaughtering of animals. Historians say that slaughtering was banned during post Vedic period (ie. during Bramhana period), due to accute shortage of cow on account of Vedic sacrifices. And thereafter begins the Upasana in Vedic religion.During my visit to famous Gorokhsha nath temple at Gorokhpur of UP, i saw how the temple authorities are taking care of Cows. When a calf is born, the milk before usage for domestic purpose,it is offerred to famous Siddha Yogi Goroksha Nath as a mark of respect to Him.Lord Krishna fromhis child hood was associated with cows, His famous picture with "Banshi" (Flute),in standing posture along with "GOMATA"(Cow) is in the minds of every house hold.Now again time has come to stop this slaughtering of animals. At this juncture your proposal is the beginning, I also appeal to all irrespective of caste,community, religion, to come forward to make the resolution a grand Success.With best wishesDr. Rajeev Agnihotri ------- Dear friends, HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAM HARE RAM RAM RAM HARE HARE"" Govind or keeper of cows was the name given to lord Krishna. In India 3,00,000 cows are slaughtered in a year. Yes we can stop it , how "Give up using leather bags/office bags, jackets, purses, belts from now." Dont gift leather and take gifts of leather" Help save the cow and animals, birds etc. make the lord happy by loving and saving cow, THE ANIMAL MOST DEAR TO HIM. The Lords names are gopal, govind, gorakhsakh etc.makan chor. will god like this slaughter. no. stop it make it a janamasthmi resolution to stop purchasing leather. Jai shree Krishna. K.P (Kalki) ------------------------------ While appreciating detailed expalanation given from Vedic Text and Manu Samhita,from strictly scientific point of view, all living creatures are in ecologicalbalance - helping each other to live. Even a snake or a scorpion is not forkilling human beings,but for protecting crops or for removing harmful insects inthe case of scorpion. Only food grains,its accompanying grass are having lowestgrade of consciousness and can be eaten with least disturbance to theeco-system. A fruit does not disturb eco-system at all when eaten after takingout seeds;so also milk. It is so kind of Nature, that when she produces foodgrains for human beings,it also produces grass for animals.Bhagwan Mahavir's injunction in this matter is that although life iseverywhere,any moving life should be avoided from food, because at the time ofdeath,it experiences visible pain. So those who want to pursue Spiritual Pathwhether by way of God or Self Realisation have to develope very subtle mind andNon-Vegetarian food will interfere in this work.To my mind vegetarianism should be supported by a rigorous practice of removingHatred, Greed,Arrogance,Jealousy etc. to produce the most beautiful flower ofcreative Human Beings. These subtle Negative influences are also damagingEco-system and therefore are also Non-Vegetarian in Nature. India in the pasthave suffered seriously by sticking to vegetarianism and ignoring these subtleemotions. Both should run pari-passu.Jayantilal Shah-------------------- Hari Om Let there be clarity at least on one point on the subject. There are three elements with reference to the non vegetarians. One - who is getting killed. Two- One who is killing . Three – Paramatma , who is a disinterested witness and controller of universe by Divine Laws through Mother Nature. As far as one who is getting killed is concerned, he is the happiest, because his sins have erased and now he is on a journey towards the north. As far as God is concerned, nothing is killed, every Jeeva is immortal. But what about the murderer? Being a human, can he go northwards ? NO ! NEVER !! What does the butcher think that Law of Karma will spare him? NO ! NEVER !! Swamiji once stated ( when he was told that the cows are being transported to abbatoir, and the person who has sold them is considering those cows as "fruits" of Karma, just as a fisherman considers the collection as "results of his efforts of fishing" ) ……. This is not result… this is KARMA ! Result will follow afterwards. Let the non vegetarians note that Law of Karma will never spare them and they will have to take birth as chickens, goats, fish and cows, pigs and lambs and will have to go through the same agony and pain which they have caused to innocent creatures. Let them never forget that in Law of Karma too there are provisions for interest, and compounding of interest. Rests there also of compounding the interest can be breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks…time intervals of compounding ! What are you doing O Non Vegetarians ?? After having got human birth , you want to become animals ! If you eat animals, what else can you become ? Words cant describe, what will be the result of such tendencies? Absolutely ruthless is Law Of Karma, O Non Vegetarians ! Mercilessness is at the roots there ! When it grips you, don't expect any concessions. There is no provision made in Law of Karma of any exemptions. In terms of intensity, velocity, and certainty…. You will have to go through the pains again and again, which you are inflicting on innocent animals ! Let there be total clarity on this. No body will lose anything in the process…except the meat eater, trader and enjoyer ! Pleasure of tongue ? What if you are made a frog? Beautiful , long tongue? What is wrong? Don't think that you are powerful and therefore can kill weak ! Think , one who has made you powerful, can He not turn the tables? Can He not make you weak, and other as powerful ? What will happen to you on that day ? Don't you see the sufferings around you? Law of Karma… learn to worry about it ! Absolutely ruthless, precise and merciless is that Law, O Non Vegetarians !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------- Gita bhaktas; Re: Violence A knife in a surgeon's hand is totally different from that of a thief. Use of a weapon by those directed by God is not killing.' Na hanyate hanyamane na shariree'. Krishna directed Arjuna and removed the unnecessary paddy in the field of Kurukshetra. In the case of the world today it may seem that one religion is pitted against another, but can we say that the soldiers are obedient to the will of the Supreme? Without the presence of the Lord on the battlefield the will of God has to be heard from His true representatives. Those who are actually following the Gita to the word , whose lives are living examples of surrender and service to Shree Krishna , who are done with material lust and greed, who are devoted without motive can be the perfect mediums for knowing the Lord's will. But politicians motivated by greed and envy can hardly be the perfect men to direct a nation. The leader of the country should be the most intelligent devotee. He should be a devotee first and politician last. We should see to it that proper persons are put in leadership roles as Shree Krishna also saw to it that the Pandavas were given the power of ruling. We should know the character of the men we vote into office. Men lacking in self-control, can we expect them to be able to spend our tax-money wisely? Can they be followed if they themselves are going to hell by their behavior? We are living in Kali yuga and such a time is beset with hypocrisy and quarrel. To revolt against such acts, following the words of Shree Krishna and other great Souls is our only hope for the world future. With the blessings of Shree Krishna, may we be inspired to bring forth leaders based on dharma, because if we do not take the role of leaders then we have to accept the leadership of adharmic men. Avadhoot---------- Hare KrishnapranamsSome references related to violence & non-violence. Hare Krishna.1) DESTRUCTIVE WORK IS BASED ON VIOLENCE - Irresponsible work is destructive because it destroys the regulative principles of scriptural injunction. It is often based on violence and is distressing to other living entities. Such irresponsible work is carried out in the light of one's personal experience. This is called illusion. And all such illusory work is a product of the mode of ignorance.2) IT IS A SYMPTOM OF ANGER - The eight symptoms of anger are slander, rash action, enmity, envy on seeing the progress of others, bearing grudges, wasting money, harsh words, unjustified violence.3) A DUTY OF A BRAHMACARI IS TO LEARN NON-VIOLENCE - "To serve the spiritual master the disciple should learn cleanliness, austerity, tolerance, silence, study of Vedic knowledge, simplicity, celibacy, non-violence, and equanimity in the face of material dualities such as heat and cold, happiness and distress4) Non-violence is the main religious duty of a sannyasa5) ONE FREE FROM VIOLENCE IS A VAISNAVA - Those who are free from lust, anger, arrogance, violence, greed, delusion, are Vaisnavas.6) WHERE ARGUMENTS FAIL VIOLENCE IS NECESSARY - Lord Krsna and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal friend, had no need to fight in the Battle of Kuruksetra, but they fought to teach people in general that violence is also necessary in a situation where good arguments fail.7) VIOLENCE IS NOT PRESENT IN THE BODY OF KRISHNA BUT WHEN SOMETIMES IS THEN IT BECOMES AN EXCELLENT QUALITY - The eighteen condemned qualities of illusion, laziness, error, taste for material enjoyment, intense lust, fickleness, arrogance, envy, violence, exertion, lamentation, dishonesty, anger, longing, fear, illusion of supporting the whole world, partiality, and dependency on others are not present in the body of the Lord. But in compliance to the krpa sakti however, even these qualities become present sometimes in the various avataras such as Rama and Krsna and become realized by the devotees as excellent qualities. (Madhurya Kadambini 8)To be continuedard (avadhuta raya) ---- Dear Sadhak There are three types of food namely Satwics ( Refer Bhgavat Geeta Chapter VIII verse 8 Rajsick food verse 9 Tamasics verse 10 The creation of ideas and knowledge depends upon type of food we eat. This is the reason why we eat Satwics food and we avoid meat and other non vegetarian food. In addition, the killing of animals which is a violent act. This I know about your question. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ------- Thank you for sharing. If I may add: Should we notaddress and resolve who we really are first so thatall these seeming problems of violence cease? Problemsare wrong perceptions of ourselves as being separateindividuals, right? This ignorance leads to allproblems including violence, right?Why do we restrict non-violence to only Brahmacharis,and Sanyasis only? Shouldn't all of us Grahasthas alsobe non-violent?WHen we are free from Violence why call us Vaisnavas?Isn't our true identity is Consciousness-Atman? DOn'twe have to be free from being Vaisnavas too?When we realize our true nature as suddha Atmanexperiencially, which is all intelligence, then thisIntelligence is going to act thru us as it did thruArjuna and Krishna in the battle field. We need notrevert to violence when arguments fail, but we need toact in accordance with this intelligence which mayinspire our body-mind instruments to take action, beit of seemingly violence or non-violence. I thinnkthis way......Pratap Bhatt --------------------------- Mr Bhatts suggestion is a wakeup call. It always has been. Sharing that wisdom is the highest service because that is the real desire of Consciousness. Every parent, every teacher must be encouraged to determine the truth by experience. It is possible, just by listening to an enlightened master; like Arjun listened to Krishna. Anup Wadhwa ------------------------- Hari OM. Bhagavad Gita according to me teaches and trains us to manage the three gunas. Krishna talks about a stable mind. We can be unaffected by anything that happens around us and this can happen only when we are in Nirguna. A state of non Violence is the best situation. But when everyone did everything to curb the activity of Pandavas, when Dhuryodhana acted as a beast and humiliated Dhraupadi, Krishna asks Arjuna to take the weapon against adharma. Hari Om Usha Sridhar ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram 10th December, 2009 is Animal Rights Day and Human Rights day...Let there be Compassion and Caring in all our interactions. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----------- Avoid use of leather, silk, health and beauty products, pesticides, foods, entertainment that involve cruelty to animals and other creatures. Be aware of the laws related to Animal Rights and do not participate in any activities that abuse these rights. "Beauty without Cruelty" BWC ------------- respected I need clarification re non-violence In Bhagavad Gita Lord tells Arjuna that you are Kshatriya, and hence you will fight. You simply cannot avoid fighting. Is it that we are born to do violence? On the other hand there is proclamation - Ahimsa Parmo Dharam Gita says that we must fight to uphold righteousness. In today's war both parties claim that they are just and right the other person is unjust. How do we ordinary people decide who is right and who is wrong in family matters also do we go by the same principle do we allow violence if the other member of family is unjust? Were Mahatma Gandhi, Christ and Buddha wrong when they advocated non-violence ? How best can we promote non-violence in today's world? Violence begets violence and we are witnessing a huge loss of life and property! with respectful pranams dr badlani ----- NEW POSTING How to Best Promote Non-Violence?Himsa or violence is a contageous desease. The only violence or sin, in myunderstanding, is the violation of one's fundamental nature. Because, theviolated nature within perpetually disturbs the individual building anxiety andfrustration within. The pented-up anguish busrts open to engulf the otherrelated individuals into its flood as well. The violence within spreads aroundnaturally. True practice of Ahimsa or non-violence is to observe and appreciateone's core nature and adapt one's course of life conforming to the same. All thenegativities in an individual can be tracked down to the ONLY ONE SIN thatKrishNa declares - VarNa Sankara, violation of one's inherent nature. All theviolence in the world can be tracked down to the negativity adhering to theindividuals variantly, often in conflicts and contradictions.THE ONLY TRUE APPRECIATOR OF NON-VIOLENCE, IN MY OPINION, IS BHAGAVAN VYAASAWHO NEVER PREACHES AHIMSA BUT EXPLAINS IT CLEARLY THROUGH BHAGAVADGITA.Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |Joshayet sarvakarmaaNi vidvaanyuktah samaacharan ||A frustrated soul cannot attain The Absolute, Ahimsa. A contended soul alone canset forth toward the attainment of The Absolute, The Ahimsa. Therefore,contentment in the survival plane is a pre-requisite for a healthy spiritualjourney toward the attainment of Ahimsa within. The Ahimsa established withinspreads around naturally. On the other hand, preached-in concepts and notions ofAhimsa cocoons up the unattended frustrations and dejections within. Thecocooned anxiety and anguish will never stop torturing the individual fromwithin. The Himsa accumulating within can never let the true Ahimsa get in. Inreality, the name of Ahimsa is taken in while Himsa is nurtured within. Thecontradiction aggravates the Himsa, VarNa Sankara, within.Spirituality is for seekers … great principles such as Ahimsa is for seekers …NEVER for preachers. Bhagavaan Vyaasa tells me, "Never ever preach theprinciples of spirituality to yourself or to any other". He clarifies further.The borrowed information in the name of knowledge creates fissures in one'sintellect leading to more and more fragmented appreciation of life. Thefragmented opinions within generates contradictions and conflicts amongst thesame. The conflicts and contradictions brewed within spreads around as acontageous desease. On top of all, the "knowledge" of preaching has certainpeculiar nature - (1) it blinds the individual to believe that everything isunderstood; (2) it forces the individual to believe that anything else is wrong;and most dangerous of all, (3) it perculates the conviction into the core of the"believer" to protect the borrowed knowledge against any adversity at any cost.Therefore, the very first step toward non-violence is to stop preaching tooneself (as well to others). Stop generating (and spreading) confusions andconflicts in experience, thoughts as well as actions.Vyaasa goes further to declare that it is better to stick to one's own naturerather than borrowing an alien nature even if one considers one's own naturerotten. Imbibing an alien behavior is the root cause for all the miseries andhence for the violence within and around.Shreyaan swadharmo viguNah paradharmaat swanushThitaat |Swadharmanidhanam shreyah paradharmo bhayaavahah ||If we look at "buddhibheda" carefully we realize how our crave to imbibe alienbehavior is invariantly the ONLY root cause for all the miseries we suffer with.Our crave toward the alien behavior is generated because, (1) we have developedaversion toward our own nature as inferior, and (2) we have developed fancytoward an alien behavior as superior. These two fundamental components ofignorance feed on each other feeding each other toward mutual growth. Breakingthis vicious circle of ignorance is the fundamental requirement toward attainingAhimsa within.Therefore, the second step toward non-violence is to appreciate and respectone's (and hence others' as well) prevalent nature as is. Everything is good andrespectable as is.Vyaasa puts an ultimately explosive wisdom of all on the very seed of theignorance. "Drop all your natures (and, hence behaviors) as they are to be justwhat you are. Then you are naturally the very Nature as such devoid of all sinsand hence the miseries. Trust Me." In other words, you become free of all thesins as you stop taking ownership on any at the core of your heart. By attainingthe absolute absence of sins of any kind, The Absolute is revealed withinwherein no sins of any kind can ever enter again.Sarvadharmaan parityajya maamekam sharaNam vraja |Aham tvaa sarvapaapebhyo mokshayishyaami maa shuchah ||When you are NOT afflicted by any nature of any kind you cannot be inflicted byany kind of misery as such. If we look at it carefully, every nature that wethink are ours is invariably borrowed from the world as if to fill a void ofdissatisfaction which perpetually generates a "non-specific perturbance" within.The core nature which generates this "non-specific perturbance" within feeds onthe collected natures to sustain itself. This core nature of collectingbehaviors is the root cause for all ownership claims. And, the claims onownership are the root causes for all the miseries. The fool-proof way to curbthis apparently insatient urge for perturbance is to cut off its food supply -the imbibed behaviors. The only way to terminate this core nature is toterminate all our behaviors awarefully.Therefore, the third and final step for The Absolute Ahimsa wherein noperturbance of any kind can ever dwell is to drop the very urge for any behaviorat all.In other words, to attain Ahimsa, watch your behavioral patterns (Vasanas)truthfully, stop collecting behavioral patterns and purge the observedbehavioral patterns from within at once.Bhagavan Vyaasa's wisdom transcends all the hurdles categorically towardpositive attainment of Ahmisa. Again, as He cautions, seek the non-violencetruthfully … never preach. Preached values invariantly weakens an individual anda society toward self-destruction. Sought values verily strengthens us totranscend all our notions including the very values.Respects.Naga Narayana Namaskar, Mike Keenor has a point. From Mahabharata we get examples of leading a life where intension of Karma give the ensuing results. A soldier goes to the battle field like as Shatriya, where he is ready to get killed or kill. From Ramayana we get the best of Councelling when Valmiki was converted from Decoit to Devotee. We will always find in the outer world, when dis-similarity is pursued, there is Violence, but all Soul are similar except for the Karmic impression as Sanskara. Our educators are not like the Gurukul Saints so the basics of character building is lost and we have a hateful society. We all must look for a Basic quality when a child grows and make a new beginning. RegardsSwapan PURKAYASTHA ----- we must know what nonviolence. Killing insects biting u cant be violence... doctor performing surgery cant be violence.... similarly killing bad to protect at large cant be violence... live n let live is non violence Raja Gurdasani ------- Jai Shree Hari,First of all, "fighting" is not always a "violence". It just depends upon the role of a person and the circumstances. For example, "fighting" in a battle for a soldier is his duty. A reader of the Bhagvad Gita will never get even a rare thought for supporting or encouraging violence. Few people, without really understanding, refer to the verse 2:37 and assume that there is some message of violence in that verse. In that verse, the message from the Lord Krishna to Arjun is "If you are killed, you will obtain heaven otherwise you will enjoy the earth upon winning the battle. So stand up and resolve to fight". In this verse, the Lord Krishna is NOT asking/encouraging Arjun to kill kauravas but He is just reminding Arjun, who is a kshatriya (i.e. soldier), about his own true duty (i.e. " fight" without looking at its result) who was getting deluded just because of his own relatives were fighting from the other side. A lot of people understands the "violence" only at gross level but the Bhagvad Gita, in the verse 13:28, says "He, who sees the same supreme Lord equally everywhere (including in all beings) realizing this he does not destroy himself by the self, therefore he reaches the supreme goal". In other words, if we are not having the same feeling of supreme love in all beings, we might be destroying ourselves. So, the Bhagvad Gita not only condemns the violence at gross level but it also warns if it happen at subtle or causal level.The main message of Bhagvad Gita is to realize the TRUE SELF which is beyond bodies and their associated worldly tags/relationships. There are many paths (mainly Karmayog, Gyaanyog and Bhaktiyog) prescribed in Bhagvad Gita to achieve that. One of them is to follow the duty associated with a role (or multiple roles) assigned without any attachment/desire. In all the paths, the Bhagvad Gita teaches people to attain the same feeling of supreme love in not only human beings but in all the beings and everywhere (Refer: 4:35, 5:7, 5:18, 6:29-32,..... ) and always be involved for the welfare of all the beings (5:25, 12:4). If this is the message, I do not know how can one, following the Gitaji, even think of supporting the violence, forget about being involved. The Lord Krishna, in the verse 16:2, describes the "non-violence" as one of the divine qualities helpful in attaining the supreme goal which is the target of the followers of the Gitaji. If we believe that Gandhiji adopted the path of non-violence during freedom movement in India, we should also not forget his love and respects for the Gitaji. Here are his few words by Mahatma Gandhiji about Gitaji:---------------The Gita is the universal mother. She turns away nobody. Her door is wide open to anyone who knocks. A true votary of Gita does not know what disappointment is. He ever dwells in perennial joy and peace that passeth understanding. But that peace and joy come not to skeptic or to him who is proud of his intellect or learning. It is reserved only for the humble in spirit who brings to her worship a fullness of faith and an undivided singleness of mind. There never was a man who worshipped her in that spirit and went disappointed. I find a solace in the Bhagavad-Gita that I miss even in the Sermon on the Mount. When disappointment stares me in the face and all alone I see not one ray of light, I go back to the Bhagavad-Gita. I find a verse here and a verse there , and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming tragedies -- and my life has been full of external tragedies -- and if they have left no visible or indelible scar on me, I owe it all to the teaching of Bhagavad-Gita. ---With Love and Regards!Niteesh Dubey Hari OmI too feel a mineness and respect for Hinduism and am proud to be a Hindu. I know it is a special privilege to be born in Bharat and to naturally follow Sanatan Dharma. But the answer to the Q raised has been correctly given by Sarvottamji . You want to promote non violence; be non violent yourself by mind, speech and actions. It is Raam Baan medicine. Nothing can be better than this.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------- "Ahimsha Parama Dharma" is the eternal truth and it is beyond doubt and violence begets violence.It is due to God's own law "every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". It is superior to Violence, whatever be the condition. Before going to open this topic, Have we asked ourselves any time "Why we should follow Gita? What is the purpose of writing Gita? readers may please ask their own heart"I am not going to tell anything on the advice given in Gita or any other religious texts.Let us only look at the leaders of Non violence.1) Adinath, Parshanath,Mahavir , they are Jain leaders. They preach non violance, and there is no violence ,wherever they settled ,whether it is India or abroad.2) Goutam Buddha the founder of Buddhism, preached "Ahimsha Parama Dharma".The most glorious period was the period of Bddhism. They were the founders of "Convent system or built up of Maths', the education was made public based on merit. Even to day it is existing in many countries of the world.3) Jesus christ ,the founder of Christianity. In India they are in sizable strength, but there is no news of violence. It is having the largest followers in the world.4) there are many others,like Adi sankaracharya, Madhavacharya, Chaitanya mahaprbhu, Ramkrishna paramahamsa. Guru nanak, sant kabir, sant Tukaram etc.The leaders/prophets who preached non violence are all naked Faquir,lead simplest way of living.. However they have changed the history of mankind in the world, they are still remembered with due respect and honor by all communities irrespective of his race,caste,community.Therefore it is proved again and again that "NON VIOLENCE" is the best for "live and let live others".With kind regards.Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri --- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Dear BV Avdhoot,Namaste!I like to reflect upon parts of your closing sentence. As I spent 12 years inthe Military, I am trying not take it out of context.'As a final reminder only those who are in command of their mind and sensesshould be obeyed. If a commander orders one to fight but does not lead thebattle then he should be abandoned. If we do not stand up for our principles ofdharma then we will have to bow to someone else's version of dharma.'So I will try let you see things through my military eyes of past years:Although not my core training I achieved marksman status, I could shoot a personthrough the heart at kilometer. Never called on to perform such thing. I hadgrave misgivings even in my young days.I could work on sophisticated electronics that could ensure many could die,can't say any more.I had no way of knowing who had their right minds in command.(What am I psych orwhat?).Let me tell you how I dealt with this situation, I carried on following orders,never broke the rules, well almost never.But because where my heart was leading me, I said the wrong things, mixed withthe wrong crowd, read the wrong books. And so hallelujah I was shuffled off towork at highly secure establishment, with all the other wackos and clowns, andboffins. This was not a ploy by me, just my pure honesty. When my service timewas up I was happy, never thought of extending, mind you they were probably gladto get rid of another clown.Sometimes it takes a while for one to discover oneself, and it takes a while forthat Divine Steamroller to iron out the crinkles.Looking back, compassion was always there, square peg in a round hole.But I tell you this I absolutely refuse to judge others.Because subtle violence can lay in judgment. (Judge not that thou be judged).My caste is human being, my Dharma is to love GOD.Om Shanti,Mike Keenor ------------------- ADVESGTAA SARVABHOOTHANAAM Viji vkn -------------------- Dear Badlani, Since it is family problem the reason for problem might be money,asset or ego or any other worldly things .As per Geetha give up all these worldly boga and dont afraid of deatching from them for devoting your life peacefully by doing your profession and satsangh. If money or ego is lost nothing is lost . If morality is lost every thing is lost. In the Kaliyaga Lord Krishna told Thavidammal ( a lady who is able to speak Him ) not to eat vegetable as we are doing himsa to plant system. Thavidammal is also not uprooting any plant to avoid himsa. Then you think of doing himsa by violence with anybody that too with your affectionate family ? Better give up their share more than they ask ? Again one's planet position also to be looked into. If you have bad dasa buddhi time then devote more spiritually by chanting Nama s of Lord or Nama Jaba atleast in Lakhs. Say goodby such family members by any more arguements .Forgive them . Always Truth will prevail and later they will come to you after your behaviour. Use your fullest violence to fight with our own ego,lustfullness, hatred ,jealousy in all your strength. . . With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, --------------------- Dear friends, As stated by my respected friend as "Gita says that we must fight to uphold righteousness", The question is who dfine this meaning of "righteousness"? Definitely not the defeated one, but the winer. Proverb says "JO JITA OHI SIKANDER". However,Vedic literature says it is the duty of Kshatriya to protect Brahmin(Manu smriti). Gita said it is the duty of Khsatriyas, on the other hand in the same Mahabharata,we find Dronacharya, Asaththama who were Brahmins performed better than kshtriyas. Karna as defined as "SUTA PUTRA" during Marriage of Droupadi was also a great hero, who was killed very trechearisly. All most all the generals were killed in a similar fashion. Hence there is a lot of cofusion. Obviously, a unity is difficulty,when there is a confusion. Hence the cofusion may be either removed or deleted from our literature,and redifine Hinduism. I think that is the need of the day. More and more people are getting education and they will not keep quite in future. hence I feel, the learned people may kindly look into this issue,to bring unity among Hindus. With kind regards Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri ----- PRIOR POSTING Dear ones, Namaste!As Vineetji says profoundly, being non-violent yourself is the answer to "how to best promote non-violence." Mike says "We need to find these voices within our own hearts,we need to believe enough in justice, love, tolerance". So true, sadhakas!Suppose there are 100 people in a village, and each one hears this message and sees the truth in it and takes to the heart, the entire village is free of violence! We are the world, so whatever we do affects the world in some measure. Therefore, we must take responsibility for our actions!Another point: An action is not always good or bad in itself, be it that of seeming violence!It is the circumstances and intention that make it so. Knife in the hands of a doctor to operate on patient is good act, while in the hands of a killer is evil. When one's Karmas are guided by righteousness(Dharma), and above all with non-doership, action will be guided by Divinity, based on the situation on hand and for greater good of the society at large! Apparent "person" is excuse!For such wisdom to flow in life, one must live righteously all one's life!Pandavas, and Lord Krishna made all sincere attempts to peacefully settle the dispute in the family, but apparently failed. Pandavas sacrificed, acted righteously, and were guided by wisdom in the form of Krishna to act for greater good! Kauravas ignored the Lord.The act may be labeled superficially as violent, but was it?Was it even personal, selfish on the part of Pandavas? Who were killing who?It was all Bhagwaan fighting, killing and getting killed, crying with victims, winning and losing at the same time just as in the Play of life(Leela)!This is what He told Arjun in Gita, particularly in Ch 2.Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt ----------------------- Patanjali yoga Sutra defines non-violence as 'Vaira Tyaga' i.e. not to haverevenge is Non-Violence. Bhagvad -Geeta also takes the same position; NivairahSarva Bhuteshu,yah sah mam eti Pandava. Verse 55/11.What we call violence is a grosser type of violence whose roots are in subtlevioleence in the form of enmity in the Human Mind. It may be due to Hatred anddeep rooted prejudices as we see in terorists or in grred as we saw in two worldwars.Violence also takes place due to arrogance and expectation. They show the formof insult and contempt in case of arrogance and persecution in case ofexpectation. Many young married women are driven to suicide because of too muchexpectation from the in-laws. Whole message of Bhagvad-Geeta is to remove thissubtle violence from Human Mind and gross violence will reduce automatically .Mahavir Buddha or Jesus Christ all worked on this subtle violence and gave agross model of Non-Violence to illustrate the results of Subtle Violence. ShantiParva of Mahabharat has also dealt with this subject.So let us be clear about the true meaning of Non-violence. Practice can followonly after understanding is clear. Otherwise born in a Jain family, I saw manyof my family members not killing an ant but exploiting a poor farmer thusmissing the point totally. Jayantilal Shah ------------------------ Dear devotees of Vedic-dharma;I have received the latest post regarding non-violence. In a world where everyone wants peace such a principle is needed. However, to guard peace there needs be a force in place of valiant men. Whoever would disturb the peace should face punishment in public view. The citizens should not fear from any harm at any time with a powerful system of organized policing. But the police must first see to the protection of the saintly. Without visionaries at the top of society who are cent-per-cent pure in mind, body and words there is no use to society. It is just a polished version of cat and dog society.Arjuna is chastised by God for not doing his duty in fighing adharma. Part of dharma is defence of the principle. If you cannot fight for your dharma then you will loose it. Even if you loose in the fight for dharma you win, according to God or Bhagavan. Arjuna had Krishna to guide him as to right and wrong. We have to therefore submit to Krishna's representative, the perfect devotee of Krishna. Such a devotee can say whether fighting is necessary or not. All diplomacy must be used in dealing with antagonists but when all fails we must then use physical force with men trained to do so. An army or unit of force must encorporate those inclined to protect and defend. We should not conscript into an army those whose nature's are different, such as intellectuals, farmers, workers and businessmen. In battle only these warriors should fight. Innocent women,elders and children should not be involved or hurt in the least. Those who do so will suffer terrible punishment in hell, unless the state government can capture and try them.You cannot overcome aggressors with non-violence. Subhash Bose got the British out of India, not Ghandi. As far as peace, there are many who will promote it in their words but not deeds. See how even top religious leaders feast on animal flesh. They do not see God in the hearts of living beings or respect life. For this act they must suffer in hell more than others because of brandishing a religious exterior. If we are to remove violence in our hearts then we must first give up enmity towards all living beings. The animals are our friends. We should give them love and affection. If they are violent towards us as are snakes and tigers, then only can we kill them. Otherwise, they should have rights to life.Tyranny must be removed from human society and to die for that principle Krishna encouraged Arjuna to fight.Yet, He said to fight as per your dharma but not forget the Supreme Lord at any time. Thus, in peace or war one must remember God. In this age of fighting or Kali yuga the recommended means of remmebering God is to chant the holy names of the Lord in congregation. As a final reminder only those who are in command of their mind and senses should be obeyed. If a commander orders one to fight but does not lead the battle then he should be abandoned. If we do not stand up for our principles of dharma then we will have to bow to someone else's version of dharma. Fight for what is right but with deference to the opinion of those who are righteous in thought, word and deed.Hari Om Tat SatBV Avdhoot--------- Dear friends,Let me reproduced below what Mr.. Bhat said: "Dear Sadhak-insight Please adopt nonviolence as taught by Lord Buddha and Mahavir Swami.When it comes to our duty we have to perform our duty first and then nonviolence. This is taught by Lord Krishna to Vir Arjun in Bhagvata Geeta This is a short understanding of this question. Truly yours S S Bhatt"The teachings of Lord Mahavir and Lord Buddha on "Non violance" is the only true,as it is for self defence and not to grab some ones resources and applied to all human races.What has been told Arjuna in Bhagavata Gita is the "Dharma' of a Kshatriya as per the four fold caste system , defined in the Vedic religion and the dharmas are different for different castes as per Vedic religion. the dharma of a person of Sudra varna is different.dharma of brahmins are different as also the dharma of Vaishya is different than others.This is the fundamental difference between a Non Vedic religion and Vedic religion as far as "Dharma" is concerned per my understanding.With regards. Dr. Rajeev Agnihotri ---- Dear Sadhak-nisight Previously I gave my remarks.Mr Dilip says the right thing.It is time of the survival of Hindu sect in India.Hindus have to stick to the principles of injhustice.When they are pushed to injustice they ought to fight for their rights This is also a type of duty under Bhgavata Gita. At present think of unity amongst all Hindus Whenever any injustice challenge them to the courts and get its judgements Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ----- PRIOR POSTING shree hari: ram ram. question is "how to best promote non-violence?" answer is "by just being non-violent" as per verse 21 chapter 3 of Gitajee. vineet, Sarvottam. ----------- -Shree Hari-Namaste!Look at the staggering words from Mahatma Gandhi, advice to a Hindu that hadlost his son to the mob, advising him to go and find an orphaned Muslim boy..."Bring up that boy like you would your own son, but bring him up with the Muslimfaith to which he was born. Only then will you find that you can heal your pain,your anger, and your longing for retribution". The commentator of this article went on to say,"There are no voices likeGandhi's that we hear today. We need to find these voices within our own hearts,we need to believe enough in justice, love, tolerance".The Dalai Lama:"In order to achieve genuine, lasting world peace, based on compassion we need asense of universal responsibility. First, we have to try innerdisarmament-reducing are own anger and hatred while increasing mutual trust andhuman affection".Jesus:"But I say unto you , Love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you".There are many that would judge one, but they are caught up in their own rigidthoughts/agendas, millions have died because of such thinking. Countries,families and friendship destroyed over perception.A long time ago a read a book by Swami Vivekananda,(have to rely on my memory),thus it is not verbatim, but he likened peoples perception of what they considerthe truth, as like looking at a diamond. Depending where one is positioned onewould see a different colour reflected from its surface. He commented but thewise understand it is all colours, brilliant pure white.Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 verse 29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those whoworship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.One must change ones inner sentiment, to a sense of tolerance to what after allis perceived differences, between, people, race, and creeds. This would radiatean aura of peace around one, that others will feel, and would start to changeones own personal world.And when some force is needed to put things to right, it should be done withwisdom, never with vengeance.Om Shanti,Mike Keenor ---------------------- Dear Sadhak-insight Please adopt nonviolence as taught by Lord Buddha and Mahavir Swami.When it comes to our duty we have to perform our duty first and then nonviolence.This is taught by Lord Krishna to Vir Arjun in Bhagvata Geeta This is a short understanding of this question. Truly yours S S Bhatt------------------------ Dear Sadaks,Arjuna refused war to avoid violence. But Sri Krishna said to wage war. Deep studies reveal, that if Duryodhan was spared, he would have created TOTAL injustice to humanity. He was from young wanted wealth, power and everyone to surrender to him. He started poisioning with Laddu on Beema, went upto killing Pandavas in Wax house, tricked Pandavas in Gambling and made them wanderers, sent people and planned several times to kill Pandavas. He was also very bad in character with regards to woman. Very egoistic in nature. Very adament in disobeying parents, Gurus and elders. After nearly a very long rope given by God, he came to war. Sri Krishna while approaching Duryodhan for peace, and asked only 5 villages for Pandavas. But Duryodhan said that even an inch land will not be given, that too after Vanavas & Agnathavas for years. In these circumstances what any one of today Sadak, will advise. Let Duryodhan Go. Fine. He would have kill more people who comes on his way, lift woman who he likes, grab anyone wealth, horbour kings to his oppertunity like Karn, teach all bad principles Etc and today what politicians are there would have been 50 years ago. Then in that case what could have been our fate today. Yadha Yadha Dharmasya----, is Bagavan grace to stabilise peace on earth in disguise of Pandavas war. Now Bagavan is come as Kalki Avathar.For normal man, he should always remain in Dharmic way, even with his children and NOT spare them when they are very wrong, knowingly commiting mistakes. Sri Krishna DOES help.My son in 8th class copied and the headmaster suspended him from further exams. I was called and expected to ask excuse. The headmaster was teacher when I was his student. I told headmaster that suspending my son from class is insufficient, and suspend him from school. All my family members were angry on me. My daughter in her collage misbehaved with her professor (Who was actually wrong), but I told my daughter to express her sincere pardon. My daughter did for my fear. You know my son only high school left, but Sri Krishna put him in business earning well. My daughter head of department in Barcleys bank- London drawing good amount though she is only B.Sc physics. Sri Krishna is with us and we all live happily. To day my children teaches their children strict disciple in living Dharmic way. 3 grandchildren, daughter, son and daughter in law and my wife adhere to Ekadasa Upavas. Grandchildren even care for ants welfare. Live Dharmic and be happy, as Sri Krishna is swaroop of Dharma.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------- Non violence is the ideal but sometimes violence is necessary. InIndia we have the worst type of criminals, murderers, rapists,terrorists etc.. There was this terrorist attack in Mumbai. How can wedeal with such people without violence? We have the example of LordKrishna's exhortation to Arjun to fight the forces of evil and destroythem even though they were his own kith and kin, which resulted in thebeautiful book Gita. Happy Janamaasthami. Hari Shanker Deo --------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Hare Krishna ! Wish you all a very Happy Janmashtami ! Shree Ladoo Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Biharilaal ki Jai ! Shree Krishna Kahnaiyaa Laal ki Jai ! Shree Giridhar Gopaal ki Jai ! Shree Radhe-Krishna ki Jai ! Jai Ho! Jai Ho! Jai Ho ! Ram Ram ------------------- Dear Sir,My sincere thanks for the good gesture shown by you for not to purchase any leather on the birth day of Lord Krishna.Besides,it is desirable to prevent the slaughtering of animals. Historians say that slaughtering was banned during post Vedic period (ie. during Bramhana period), due to accute shortage of cow on account of Vedic sacrifices. And thereafter begins the Upasana in Vedic religion.During my visit to famous Gorokhsha nath temple at Gorokhpur of UP, i saw how the temple authorities are taking care of Cows. When a calf is born, the milk before usage for domestic purpose,it is offerred to famous Siddha Yogi Goroksha Nath as a mark of respect to Him.Lord Krishna fromhis child hood was associated with cows, His famous picture with "Banshi" (Flute),in standing posture along with "GOMATA"(Cow) is in the minds of every house hold.Now again time has come to stop this slaughtering of animals. At this juncture your proposal is the beginning, I also appeal to all irrespective of caste,community, religion, to come forward to make the resolution a grand Success.With best wishesDr. Rajeev Agnihotri ------- Dear friends, HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAM HARE RAM RAM RAM HARE HARE"" Govind or keeper of cows was the name given to lord Krishna. In India 3,00,000 cows are slaughtered in a year. Yes we can stop it , how "Give up using leather bags/office bags, jackets, purses, belts from now." Dont gift leather and take gifts of leather" Help save the cow and animals, birds etc. make the lord happy by loving and saving cow, THE ANIMAL MOST DEAR TO HIM. The Lords names are gopal, govind, gorakhsakh etc.makan chor. will god like this slaughter. no. stop it make it a janamasthmi resolution to stop purchasing leather. Jai shree Krishna. K.P (Kalki) ------------------------------ While appreciating detailed expalanation given from Vedic Text and Manu Samhita,from strictly scientific point of view, all living creatures are in ecologicalbalance - helping each other to live. Even a snake or a scorpion is not forkilling human beings,but for protecting crops or for removing harmful insects inthe case of scorpion. Only food grains,its accompanying grass are having lowestgrade of consciousness and can be eaten with least disturbance to theeco-system. A fruit does not disturb eco-system at all when eaten after takingout seeds;so also milk. It is so kind of Nature, that when she produces foodgrains for human beings,it also produces grass for animals.Bhagwan Mahavir's injunction in this matter is that although life iseverywhere,any moving life should be avoided from food, because at the time ofdeath,it experiences visible pain. So those who want to pursue Spiritual Pathwhether by way of God or Self Realisation have to develope very subtle mind andNon-Vegetarian food will interfere in this work.To my mind vegetarianism should be supported by a rigorous practice of removingHatred, Greed,Arrogance,Jealousy etc. to produce the most beautiful flower ofcreative Human Beings. These subtle Negative influences are also damagingEco-system and therefore are also Non-Vegetarian in Nature. India in the pasthave suffered seriously by sticking to vegetarianism and ignoring these subtleemotions. Both should run pari-passu.Jayantilal Shah-------------------- Hari Om Let there be clarity at least on one point on the subject. There are three elements with reference to the non vegetarians. One - who is getting killed. Two- One who is killing . Three – Paramatma , who is a disinterested witness and controller of universe by Divine Laws through Mother Nature. As far as one who is getting killed is concerned, he is the happiest, because his sins have erased and now he is on a journey towards the north. As far as God is concerned, nothing is killed, every Jeeva is immortal. But what about the murderer? Being a human, can he go northwards ? NO ! NEVER !! What does the butcher think that Law of Karma will spare him? NO ! NEVER !! Swamiji once stated ( when he was told that the cows are being transported to abbatoir, and the person who has sold them is considering those cows as "fruits" of Karma, just as a fisherman considers the collection as "results of his efforts of fishing" ) ……. This is not result… this is KARMA ! Result will follow afterwards. Let the non vegetarians note that Law of Karma will never spare them and they will have to take birth as chickens, goats, fish and cows, pigs and lambs and will have to go through the same agony and pain which they have caused to innocent creatures. Let them never forget that in Law of Karma too there are provisions for interest, and compounding of interest. Rests there also of compounding the interest can be breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks…time intervals of compounding ! What are you doing O Non Vegetarians ?? After having got human birth , you want to become animals ! If you eat animals, what else can you become ? Words cant describe, what will be the result of such tendencies? Absolutely ruthless is Law Of Karma, O Non Vegetarians ! Mercilessness is at the roots there ! When it grips you, don't expect any concessions. There is no provision made in Law of Karma of any exemptions. In terms of intensity, velocity, and certainty…. You will have to go through the pains again and again, which you are inflicting on innocent animals ! Let there be total clarity on this. No body will lose anything in the process…except the meat eater, trader and enjoyer ! Pleasure of tongue ? What if you are made a frog? Beautiful , long tongue? What is wrong? Don't think that you are powerful and therefore can kill weak ! Think , one who has made you powerful, can He not turn the tables? Can He not make you weak, and other as powerful ? What will happen to you on that day ? Don't you see the sufferings around you? Law of Karma… learn to worry about it ! Absolutely ruthless, precise and merciless is that Law, O Non Vegetarians !! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B ------------------- Gita bhaktas; Re: Violence A knife in a surgeon's hand is totally different from that of a thief. Use of a weapon by those directed by God is not killing.' Na hanyate hanyamane na shariree'. Krishna directed Arjuna and removed the unnecessary paddy in the field of Kurukshetra. In the case of the world today it may seem that one religion is pitted against another, but can we say that the soldiers are obedient to the will of the Supreme? Without the presence of the Lord on the battlefield the will of God has to be heard from His true representatives. Those who are actually following the Gita to the word , whose lives are living examples of surrender and service to Shree Krishna , who are done with material lust and greed, who are devoted without motive can be the perfect mediums for knowing the Lord's will. But politicians motivated by greed and envy can hardly be the perfect men to direct a nation. The leader of the country should be the most intelligent devotee. He should be a devotee first and politician last. We should see to it that proper persons are put in leadership roles as Shree Krishna also saw to it that the Pandavas were given the power of ruling. We should know the character of the men we vote into office. Men lacking in self-control, can we expect them to be able to spend our tax-money wisely? Can they be followed if they themselves are going to hell by their behavior? We are living in Kali yuga and such a time is beset with hypocrisy and quarrel. To revolt against such acts, following the words of Shree Krishna and other great Souls is our only hope for the world future. With the blessings of Shree Krishna, may we be inspired to bring forth leaders based on dharma, because if we do not take the role of leaders then we have to accept the leadership of adharmic men. Avadhoot---------- Hare KrishnapranamsSome references related to violence & non-violence. Hare Krishna.1) DESTRUCTIVE WORK IS BASED ON VIOLENCE - Irresponsible work is destructive because it destroys the regulative principles of scriptural injunction. It is often based on violence and is distressing to other living entities. Such irresponsible work is carried out in the light of one's personal experience. This is called illusion. And all such illusory work is a product of the mode of ignorance.2) IT IS A SYMPTOM OF ANGER - The eight symptoms of anger are slander, rash action, enmity, envy on seeing the progress of others, bearing grudges, wasting money, harsh words, unjustified violence.3) A DUTY OF A BRAHMACARI IS TO LEARN NON-VIOLENCE - "To serve the spiritual master the disciple should learn cleanliness, austerity, tolerance, silence, study of Vedic knowledge, simplicity, celibacy, non-violence, and equanimity in the face of material dualities such as heat and cold, happiness and distress4) Non-violence is the main religious duty of a sannyasa5) ONE FREE FROM VIOLENCE IS A VAISNAVA - Those who are free from lust, anger, arrogance, violence, greed, delusion, are Vaisnavas.6) WHERE ARGUMENTS FAIL VIOLENCE IS NECESSARY - Lord Krsna and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal friend, had no need to fight in the Battle of Kuruksetra, but they fought to teach people in general that violence is also necessary in a situation where good arguments fail.7) VIOLENCE IS NOT PRESENT IN THE BODY OF KRISHNA BUT WHEN SOMETIMES IS THEN IT BECOMES AN EXCELLENT QUALITY - The eighteen condemned qualities of illusion, laziness, error, taste for material enjoyment, intense lust, fickleness, arrogance, envy, violence, exertion, lamentation, dishonesty, anger, longing, fear, illusion of supporting the whole world, partiality, and dependency on others are not present in the body of the Lord. But in compliance to the krpa sakti however, even these qualities become present sometimes in the various avataras such as Rama and Krsna and become realized by the devotees as excellent qualities. (Madhurya Kadambini 8)To be continuedard (avadhuta raya) ---- Dear Sadhak There are three types of food namely Satwics ( Refer Bhgavat Geeta Chapter VIII verse 8 Rajsick food verse 9 Tamasics verse 10 The creation of ideas and knowledge depends upon type of food we eat. This is the reason why we eat Satwics food and we avoid meat and other non vegetarian food. In addition, the killing of animals which is a violent act. This I know about your question. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ------- Thank you for sharing. If I may add: Should we notaddress and resolve who we really are first so thatall these seeming problems of violence cease? Problemsare wrong perceptions of ourselves as being separateindividuals, right? This ignorance leads to allproblems including violence, right?Why do we restrict non-violence to only Brahmacharis,and Sanyasis only? Shouldn't all of us Grahasthas alsobe non-violent?WHen we are free from Violence why call us Vaisnavas?Isn't our true identity is Consciousness-Atman? DOn'twe have to be free from being Vaisnavas too?When we realize our true nature as suddha Atmanexperiencially, which is all intelligence, then thisIntelligence is going to act thru us as it did thruArjuna and Krishna in the battle field. We need notrevert to violence when arguments fail, but we need toact in accordance with this intelligence which mayinspire our body-mind instruments to take action, beit of seemingly violence or non-violence. I thinnkthis way......Pratap Bhatt --------------------------- Mr Bhatts suggestion is a wakeup call. It always has been. Sharing that wisdom is the highest service because that is the real desire of Consciousness. Every parent, every teacher must be encouraged to determine the truth by experience. It is possible, just by listening to an enlightened master; like Arjun listened to Krishna. Anup Wadhwa ------------------------- Hari OM. Bhagavad Gita according to me teaches and trains us to manage the three gunas. Krishna talks about a stable mind. We can be unaffected by anything that happens around us and this can happen only when we are in Nirguna. A state of non Violence is the best situation. But when everyone did everything to curb the activity of Pandavas, when Dhuryodhana acted as a beast and humiliated Dhraupadi, Krishna asks Arjuna to take the weapon against adharma. Hari Om Usha Sridhar ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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