On Idol Worship and Many Gods and Goddesses - Why?

September 7, 2009

Praise The Lord !!!!!!!

I am regularly reading your message as spiritually it is interesting for me.

I am writing this E-mail to clear one of my doubts i.e. why there are so many

Gods and Goddesses and worshipping idols as God has created man on his own image

and how a man can create his creator Almighty The God from clay or any materials

and worship that idols.

Awaiting your response,

Regards,

varghese mathew

(One of your regular readers)

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2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study

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4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim

of deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they

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etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

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the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

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Ram Ram

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September 8, 2009

Praise The Lord !!!!!!!I am regularly reading your message as spiritually it is interesting for me.I am writing this E-mail to clear one of my doubts i.e. why there are so manyGods and Goddesses and worshipping idols as God has created man on his own imageand how a man can create his creator Almighty The God from clay or any materialsand worship that idols.Awaiting your response,Regards,varghese mathew(One of your regular readers)-------------------NEW POSTING Namaste.I urge Hindus to refrain from using the term 'idol worship'; instead use the correct words - MURTI WORSHIP. 'Idol Worship' is grossly inadequate in describing the worship of murtis. An Idol is not a murti, and Hindus do not worship idols. Let the world be educated and informed of this; as Gandhi advises: be the change you wish to see in the world, so start with yourself and family - do not use the word Idol when you mean Murti. "Just as there is no term which corresponds precisely to the terms Brahman or Dharma, there is no term which corresponds precisely to the concept of murti, with its accompanying theological underpinnings." ~~~ Jeffrey Long A Murti is a symbol of God which help the aspirants to attain one-pointedness of mind and purity of heart. A symbol is absolutely indispensable for fixing the mind. A gross mind needs a concrete symbol; a subtle mind needs an abstract symbol. Even a vedantin has the symbol Om for fixing the wandering mind. In the beginning concentration or meditation is not possible without a symbol.The mind is disciplined in the beginning by fixing the mind on a concrete object or symbol. Later, when it has been rendered steady and subtle, it can be fixed on an abstract idea such as 'Aham Brahma Asmi' (I am the infinite). The devotee superimposes, on the murti, the Lord and his attributes. He does sodasopacara puja for the murti - the sixteen kinds of respect or service of the Lord. This consists of padyam (water for washing the feet), arghyam (water to wash hands), asana (seat), snana (bathing), offering of clothing, applying sandal paste, offering flowers (arcan), burning incense, waving of lights and camphor, food offering (maha naivedyam) etc. The wandering mind is fixed now in this form of worship. The aspirant gradually feels the nearness of the Lord. He attains purity of heart and slowly annihilates his egoism.He who has done puja (worship) with flowers and other articles of worship for some time, can take to mental worship. In mental puja the devotee offers all offerings to the Lord mentally. This is an advanced form of worship. It purifies the heart and steadies the mind. It fills the mind with pure love for the Lord and gradually transmutes man into a divine being.Even in worshipping a small murti, he has to repeat the Purusa Sukta (a sacred hymn) and to think of the virat purusa (cosmic form) - with countless heads, countless eyes, countless hands, who extends beyond the universe and also of the Lord or atman who dwells in the hearts of all.The aspirant gradually begins to feel that the Lord he worships is in the murti, in the hearts of all creatures and in the names and forms of all in this universe. He begins to feel His presence everywhere, in other words, he sees God everywhere and in everything.Ram RamDeosarn Bisnath----------------shree hari:ram ram.respected sir, how do you say the CREATOR is different from all what is seen or sensed by any of the senses the human have? please read verse 19 of chapter 7 of Gitajee in Sadhak Sanjeevanee by Swamiramsukhdasjee.humbly,sarvottam.----------------Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. God gives us the freedom to worship of our choice. Idols make us easier to concentrate. If we have a form of the Lord, then we can concentrate easily on that. Idol worship is a part of our Hinduism. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Yanti deva vrata devan,Pitrun yanti pitru vratah,Bhutani yanti bhutejya,Yanti mad yajino pi mam. "( Gitaji, 9, 25)Which means,' Those who worship the demigods will take birth among demigods, those who worship the ancestors go to them, whose who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among them and those who worship Me will live with Me. 'We can worship whomever we want. If we worship demigods , and go to their place in the end ,, we still have to come back to this earth and reborn. If we worship Lord Krishna, and go to His Kingdom, there is no question of rebirth. Devotional service, with complete surrender at the lotus feet of the Lord, is the way out of this material bondage. Thank YouHare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D---------------Dear Sadaks,There are 33 crore Devathas (Demi Gods) who cater to run this whole universe in recording all actions of sin or Puniya.This there in Geetha. God as Sriman Narayana is supreme in sustenance. Bagavan Shiva as Samhar.In fact God has NO form- It says- Akshranam, (Sound) Apporvam, (Rare), Apprameyam (Not an object of any shape). But God takes form for HIS Bakthas. Now praying Idols in temple is like studying in school. Learning, reading, of Vedas/Scripts to understand God is like collage studies. Sat Sangh and living in solitude knowing God is Omnipresent is doing Ph.D. Then seeing God in all and in himself is Gyani (Realized One) fit to get liberated. So start with worship of Idol and end with formless.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -----------------Shree Hari-Dear Varghese,Namaste!O.K. similar thoughts have gone through my mind in the past.From my background very non idle worship. But one night I had a phone call from3000 km away from an old friend, he wanted me to send him the sacred oil thatwas being wept by the Holy Virgin in a church nearby. He wanted it for a dyingmans wish.So I obtained some oil by the good grace of the priest, on my way home I smelledit out of curiosity, at that instant my heart felt the warmest sweetest glow,most unexpected.(Not a reaction I would have expected).My wife and I were presented with a hand painted mandala, soft abstractbeautiful; we rarely take it out of the house. But on the odd occasion that wehave, we have seen some amazing reactions; one lady started to cry and gasped,"It's beautiful", later she said she saw many of the deities(such as youimplied)after we all had meditated upon it, another person changed there andthen, it seem to melt her heart.My wife sees God in it, to me it's Aum..., it seems to pusate with life.Now the Madonna is made of clay or resin, the mandala paint and canvas.BUT.......Om Shanti,Mike Keenor----------------Dear Ones Namaste!Varghese Mathew has asked question that has been asked by many others too!God is Just One Existence, Powerful and endowed with Supreme Intelligence to express as many sub-powers at will.This Power and Intelligence with Love and Compassion control fundamental aspects of the Universal Life, the cycles of Creation, Sustenance, and Dissolution. Each aspect is thus represented by personal God or Goddesses! Gita Ch 10/11 deal with ONE Divine Power manifest as many aspects of Life, Bhagwaan Krishna personified.It is not that there are many Gods independent of each others, rather, each is worshiped to glorify that aspect which appeals to a worshiper. Mind is not equipped to comprehend Infinite Intelligence in an abstract way so "personal God" is conceptualized.The idea of many Gods is not properly understood with open mind by those critics.For example, a country vests various Powers to govern its people in a President who then organizes into many organizations, each representing some power to govern and be governed. Actually this one vast Power to lawfully protect one's freedom is organized as many areas of responsibility just as Gods and Goddesses are vested. Ultimately People are God's instruments through whom such powers work, and they in turn, invent various God-Goddesses for good reasons so common man can cultivate faith and is led to knowledge of ONE GOD eventually! So for common people, various Idols represent "their Gods". Idols are not just things of materials nature, but convey to mind of a devotee form of God as Power, Intelligence, Love, Beauty, Benovalence! It doesn't have to be that way for all people. An Idol is an image of God made by mind, but mind itself is made in His Image, by Him only! Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt------------Dear Varghese,FYI, I have responded to this question in detail some time back on a topic "WhyHindu Gods Resort to Violence?" attempting to explain the significance andimportance of polytheism and monotheism.You may want to refer to that.Respects.Naga Narayana----------------------There not many Gods. God is all pervasive and unique and appears in variousforms. Some forms appear to us superior because that is the property with weare born with natural tendency (dharma) to differentiate between one formand another. So, as per the Priciples of Creation, Destruction andmaintenance of creation, we create the notion of different Gods andGoddesses, we create the notion of different classes of human beings, wecreate the notion of different types of creatures and no-living beings. Itis much later that we realize that the creation of various Gods andGoddesses can not be the ultimate as God has to be there all types of Godsand Goddesses. Then we come to realize that whatever God we create, we cancreate another superior God that created the God we start with. This is aproblem. So, Finally, we have to agree that God is ageless, never born,never dead and eternal: also, God is all pervading abd therefore everythingis equal to every other thing containing and contained in this God. There isnothing beyond God and we are in a sense all God.But it is difficult for people to accept that every thing in the creation isnothing but the one and the only one. So, we worship different Gods. So, wecompromise with the logic of creation of God in our mind. That is how God orthe entire creatiion is.Creator is the Creation itself in its entirety. It is in the scheme ofCreation laws that we behave the way we do: like you ask question and I trymy reply.Basudeb Sen======================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

September 11, 2009

Praise The Lord !!!!!!!I am regularly reading your message as spiritually it is interesting for me.I am writing this E-mail to clear one of my doubts i.e. why there are so manyGods and Goddesses and worshipping idols as God has created man on his own imageand how a man can create his creator Almighty The God from clay or any materialsand worship that idols.Awaiting your response,Regards,varghese mathew(One of your regular readers)

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NEW POSTING

Peace & Love to the World.

Dear Seeker of Truth.

Like you - I too am a seeker of Truth - I am still searchin for Truth in Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc.

Anyway I would like to try give answer to your Question.

Instead of saying GODs & Goddesses ( which is not correct according to sanksrith language ) we better call them as demi gods........ where the whole & sole concept of god does not reside as centralized.

So now those demi gods are different avatars or incarnations of One Supreme Godhead - Krishna.

As in GITA : Krishna says :

The devotees may worship me in any form or by any name - with any religion - in any piece of land in this universe.........Ultimately they are going to be with me in my abode. I am both the one with form & the formless.

In such a case it doesnot matter - who you are worshipping the demigods or the supreme formless GOD - as long as you are pious too - The responder, The actor, The feeder, The caretaker is ultimately ME...........Lord Krishna alone.

This cannot be considered as IDOL Worhsip.........Lord appeared in the image of man & we are worshipping his image. If anybody praises your father or your fathers image - ultimately the reference is your father. Can we say that the Video Grapher created your father from Paper & Colours ? No. Your father was there long before his image was created............similarly demigods have appeared as the part & parcel of One Supreme GOD Krishna............even before any of their images were carved out.

When our parents die - we rever & respect & remember them by making their photos or images in a frame. Similar is our relations with GOD. Without any differentiation of the demigods or their images we rever their teachings & their miracles & their services to the mankind.

But these are only different successive stages - in a mans journey towards attaining the highest truth of spirituality. For eg : A Child needs her mother when the child is young & innocent of worldly knowledge & life.

So are we now in a stage of spirituality - we need the image of GOD for our comfort.

But then when the child advances in his stages of life..........he learns that mother can stay for herself and i can do my work without her presence around the child. Because the child has realized the other truth of this world & worldly life. Similarly as we advance in the stages of spirituality - we have to attain highest truths of spirituality and at one point of time.......as we progress we realize to attain only one & one supreme personality of GOd Head...Krishna.

The sage of all the times in this world..........are the best examples of the small child........who are grown ups.They do not worship any images or idols of GOD. But the GOD alone. One and only one GOD. The sages do not crave for any image or idol of GOD. For them now there is no significance of the image or idol of any demigod......when they have the ultimate abode of GOD with them.

When our father is with us in our home........we dont need to worry or bother about his image.

Hope this clears your question.

Hare Krishna.

Lokesh Uppatla

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-Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Dn Kayshap Nath,Thank you for that open pure observation (pasted below), surprisingly thataspect of 'Himduism', is known and admired by people in the West more than onewould think! "... u are a follower of sanatan dharm (hinduism even if u go to church toprey, as that is ur faith. as long as u respect the other man as u respect thegod u worship (irrespective of his social standing) you are a hindu..."I suppose there is a danger of becoming obsessed with an Idol. Thus I can seethe possibility of a person moving away from the spirit ofBhagavad Gita Chapter 8; Verses 8,9,10. Away from the spirit of the wordswritten By Revered Swamiji in Sadhak-Sanjivani(English Vol1), page 988. Just a reflection.Om Shanti!Mike Keenor

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Let me answer this:

1. The premise that God created man in his own image is disputed. Ludwig Feurbach feels that a concept of God is the self esteem of man; and that is to say, that man created God in his own image. And it is this aspect in Feurbachean materialism that attracted Marx to him.

2. Many gods and goddesses.

a) it is a theological mistake to use Capital 'G' while speaking about Hindu gods and goddesses, who are many in number. One is supposed to use small 'g' only. Why?

a.1) This is because these gods and goddesses are NOT the ultimate reality in Hindu Philosophy. they are only deities, for functinal importance.

a.2) Ekam Sat, Vipra Bahudha Vadanti is a pramana. (The truth is only one, scholars call it in different names depending on space, time, and existing knowledge system of the given society.

b) All Hindu deities, including Brahma, Vishnu and Maheswara have beginning and end. They are not eternal principles.

c) The Upanishads speak of only one reality as eternal, which they do not name, qualify, or portray.

c.1) According to Sankara (the sage from your place, Kerala) the ultimate reality can not be qualified since it is beyond being qualified, can not be named since it is beyond being named, can not attribute any shape to it, since it beyond having any shape etc. etc.

d) probabaly, many deities (you think that they are all gods, and yes, only for functional requirements and not any further) represents many possible human charecters, for any man to choose any one depending on his nature and taste. (it is a capitalist market havng variety)

2. do not confuse the semetic God with these dieties. Semetic theology is simple, less philosophical and readily given to common minds. Indian Philosophy is not, things are made available to common folks through these symbols and methods. The purpose is just to satisfy the reqirements of common people. For those who want more, there are many other things ready.

3. And finally, eternal principle is infinite by definition and Logic. Human mind is finite and limitted. The prize question here is: How can the finite ever think of comprehending the infinite? This shall be a contradiction in terms. One can not simply speak of these things as simple concepts as spoken in semitic theology. in India, there is a way in which these things could be known, and that shall be 'Anubhava' or Knowledge as 'experienctial'. A different story altogether.

It is rather impossible to use this finite medium of internet to discuss these things. what one need, if one really need, is a teacher, an acharya, or a Guru.

Good Luck!

Visharad Sharma

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dear varghese. your inquiry seems to be out of criticism not as a genuine seeker of the details of idol worship. however i will advise you to first enquire as to why there is a photograph or statue of christ or mother installed in every church, this will explain to you the reason of idol worship. Now so for the worship of many gods and making of clay idol needs in depth study of the hindu philosophy. just for your understanding , we all know that God is omnipresent, and to make layman understand this maxim we try to see His omnipresence in every thing such as trees, animals, earth, stars,sun moon etc. in western world also they have stories like' grape are sour',' slow and steady wins the race ' etc only to make genral people to understand the essence of the subject. dear one if you really want to know the details please read some genuine authors.God bless you,

ckk (C K Kaul)

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I would like to correct Mr. Jayantilal Shah on the concepts of Islam on Semi-God and Pharishtas:

Semi God : There is no concept of Semi God in Islam. After Almighty God there are chosen Prophets, who were human being.

Pharishtas : They have altogether different identities. As per Islam whoesoever dies is as if he is having a long sleep till the day he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement and according to the deeds he will be sent to Heaven and Hell.

May Peace be upon all of you.

A Malik

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As part of Hindu philosophy every thing is part of GOD in other word every thing livingor non living is god. There is some Psychology behind it and psychology is a science. This question also asked from some one in discussion.Per Hinduism every body has to suffer according to their destiny, which is previous actions done either in same life or in previous lives. In Hinduism since every thing is a part of God, and just as in a body we value the heart as well as the excretion organs, similarly in Hinduism since everything is a part of God, the ides is to respect other belief. This makes Hindu way very tolerant, creating an understanding of other faiths and people, irrespective of caste, sect, language, nationality. Hindus are not limited to idols, and respect / worship animals, trees, mountains, rivers, mother earth and so on. Everything is God and must be cared for / utilized properly.Nowadays problems such as global warming can be significantly reduced if we all refrain from the lustful materialism and learn to nuture nature as addressed in detail in the hindu scriptures. Think on this.Thanking youShiv Shankar

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As I understand, there are tens of thousands of religions in the world most can be divided into two categories.Per my observation there are:= top down religions: these are religions that were revealed by God to humans. Often, these religions are based on the contents of a holy book- bottom-up religions: these are religions that were created by humanswho wrote about their understandings of deity, humanity and the rest ofthe universe. They are generally heavily biased by the limitedscientific knowledge of the authors, and the culture and prejudices ofthe author.Per my understanding the top-down religions often have a creation in which God explains howhe created the the Earth, the life forms on it, and the rest of the universe.The bottom-up religions generally discuss creation in terms of humanmyths that have been circulating in the author's culture. They arestrictly human creations and are generally in conflict with the findingsof science. They are often intolerant of women, and both racial andsexual, minorities. Often, their conservative wings have little regardfor human rights.The main problem as I see it is that it appears when the followers of many religion regardtheir own personal faith as being the * only* top-down religion in theworld -- and thus the *only * valid faith. Meanwhile, they regard allother religions as * invalid * bottom up religions.I call this a problem because there is a significant risk that the humanrace will be wiped out before the end of this century. The indirectcause will be the above sentence. The direct cause will be the existenceof nuclear bombs in the hands of persons of diverse religions. The bestprevention is the teachng of religious tolerance. Teaching of tolerancetowards women, sexual minorities and racial minorities would be a goodidea as well. So would teaching the importance of human rights.--RegardsBruce Robinson

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PRIOR POSTING

God is so mighty that he can have millions of images. Thus the millions of "gods".

Dilip Bhagat

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There is only one GOD with different forms. God is also formless (example: ice, water vapor),

As per scriptures every thing is God Only (example: spider and its web, both material cause and efficient cause). For most it is difficult to grasp these concepts of formlessness, and the one-ness of all, hence it begin idol worship (there is two), which is easy to follow. The idea of this spiritual discipline is to graduate from multiplicity and ultimately realize is that One ness.

These ideas are the very basic. With little sincere research you will find elaborate answers on this from great masters.

With Regards

Tusar Swami

(This is my very first posting and I am a relatively new member of this forum)

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In the celestial sphere in the Northern Direction, there are many places, wherethose who are not free but have done good deeds stay. In Christianity, they areknown as angels, in Islam Phirasta and Hindus, Jains and Budhhists call themDevatas. According to the degree of their good deeds, they are having ranks inascending order.They do help or obstruct the path of House Holders.However making idols of demi-gods and worshiping them seems to have leaked intoHindu Religion by Tantrics. In pure Bhakti cult as seen in Shrimad Bhagwat,thereis no place for idol worship. Continuous Nama Smaran and Swadyaya to know who Iam or Swarup Gnana seems to be the ideal.Worship of Lord Krishna along withRadhaji and Navdha Bhakti are the tools to achieve the desired goal. There doesnot seem to be idol worship in Christian practices.Islam although recognisesdemi-gods, does not have any idol.Idol worship is to help mind focussed and generate feelings of Love andGood-will and many other Divine attributes of God. Certainly there is no God inclay idol. Following verses from Geeta make the position clear.Verse 20/7Kamaihi taihi taihi hrutgnanah,Prapadyante anya DevtahaTam tam niyamam asthaya, Prakrtyaha niyataha swayaha 20/7Yaha yaha yam yam tanum bhaktaha,shradhyaha architum ichhati,Tasya tasya achalam shradham,tam eva vidhadhami aham 21/7Gist is those who cannot do Parabhakti to experience God in every livingcreature,and overpowered by material desires,go to demi-gods to satisfy them andif they have faith in that demi-god, I i.e. God make their faith strong so thatthey can get dessired results.Verses 22 & 23 summarises that those gains will be temporary nature and it isadvisable to go to Pure Divine Consciousness to become Pure Devotee.Jayantilal Shah

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respected frnd ur question is v relevent. here is ur answer. sanatan dharm(hinduism) is creation of sages whose knowledge on science and theology was far more then the present day knowledge of mankind. u would agree that mankind has nearly 75% of man with IQ around 100, while people of IQ above 150 is less then 5%. it is those 5% they lead the society/nation on the path they select.

coming to the point of multi gods/goddess, and their image. sanatan dharm does not preach any form of prayer/worship. u can be an athiest to believer of 1 god to multi gods/goddess as regards the shape of gods/goddess it is v well thought out plan as the idol depicts precisely what that form god/goddess does for mankind. it is ur choice, no binding. what is ur religion then? humanity is ur religion. rest are all faith, but they did not discount the value of faith, as it is ur faith that makes u stand tall when facing difficulty.

gita is the essence of life. how to act when in difficulty.

u are a follower of sanatan dharm (hinduism even if u go to church to prey, as that is ur faith. as long as u respect the other man as u respect the god u worship (irrespective of his social standing) you are a hindu.

Dn Kayshap Nath -----------------

Hi,I'm a Hindu and I consider an IDOL to be IDEAL worship...so it is IDEAL worship.Reds, Shallabh-----------------

God is Everywhere.

Worshipping Divinity in the idol is worshipping God.

Idol worship is worshipping the idol as Divinity.Denis Khan

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We all know that God is all pervasive, formless, beyond gender but toexplain this to an illiterate person is difficult. Therefore In Indiawe have so many idols of Gods and Godessess in temples. This doesnot mean that they exist somewhere in the sky or space. In this worldthere have been many wars which has been fought in the name ofreligion which is silly in the extreme. There are many temples wherethere are no idols. God and the truth can only be realised throughsewa or service, satsang or keeping the company of saints, sadhna,samarpan and meditation.

Hari Shanker Deo -------------------------

Dear Satsang members

Thank you for differentiating "idol" from "murty". All the people who are named Krishna Murthy, Guru Murthy... are not just idols among us.

We worship through idols.

Pranaams

Veena Hassan

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Dear All,

Thank you all for the informations parted to me.

Regards,

Varghese Mathew

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste.

I urge Hindus to refrain from using the term 'idol worship'; instead use the correct words - MURTI WORSHIP. 'Idol Worship' is grossly inadequate in describing the worship of murtis. An Idol is not a murti, and Hindus do not worship idols.

Let the world be educated and informed of this; as Gandhi advises: be the change you wish to see in the world, so start with yourself and family - do not use the word Idol when you mean Murti.

"Just as there is no term which corresponds precisely to the terms Brahman or Dharma, there is no term which corresponds precisely to the concept of murti, with its accompanying theological underpinnings." ~~~ Jeffrey Long

A Murti is a symbol of God which help the aspirants to attain one-pointedness of mind and purity of heart. A symbol is absolutely indispensable for fixing the mind. A gross mind needs a concrete symbol; a subtle mind needs an abstract symbol. Even a vedantin has the symbol Om for fixing the wandering mind. In the beginning concentration or meditation is not possible without a symbol.The mind is disciplined in the beginning by fixing the mind on a concrete object or symbol. Later, when it has been rendered steady and subtle, it can be fixed on an abstract idea such as 'Aham Brahma Asmi' (I am the infinite).

The devotee superimposes, on the murti, the Lord and his attributes. He does sodasopacara puja for the murti - the sixteen kinds of respect or service of the Lord. This consists of padyam (water for washing the feet), arghyam (water to wash hands), asana (seat), snana (bathing), offering of clothing, applying sandal paste, offering flowers (arcan), burning incense, waving of lights and camphor, food offering (maha naivedyam) etc. The wandering mind is fixed now in this form of worship. The aspirant gradually feels the nearness of the Lord. He attains purity of heart and slowly annihilates his egoism.He who has done puja (worship) with flowers and other articles of worship for some time, can take to mental worship. In mental puja the devotee offers all offerings to the Lord mentally. This is an advanced form of worship. It purifies the heart and steadies the mind. It fills the mind with pure love for the Lord and gradually transmutes man into a divine being.Even in worshipping a small murti, he has to repeat the Purusa Sukta (a sacred hymn) and to think of the virat purusa (cosmic form) - with countless heads, countless eyes, countless hands, who extends beyond the universe and also of the Lord or atman who dwells in the hearts of all.

The aspirant gradually begins to feel that the Lord he worships is in the murti, in the hearts of all creatures and in the names and forms of all in this universe. He begins to feel His presence everywhere, in other words, he sees God everywhere and in everything.

Ram Ram

Deosarn Bisnath

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shree hari:

ram ram.

respected sir, how do you say the CREATOR is different from all what is seen or sensed by any of the senses the human have? please read verse 19 of chapter 7 of Gitajee in Sadhak Sanjeevanee by Swamiramsukhdasjee.

humbly,

sarvottam.

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. God gives us the freedom to worship of our choice. Idols make us easier to concentrate. If we have a form of the Lord, then we can concentrate easily on that. Idol worship is a part of our Hinduism. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Yanti deva vrata devan,Pitrun yanti pitru vratah,Bhutani yanti bhutejya,Yanti mad yajino pi mam. "( Gitaji, 9, 25)Which means,' Those who worship the demigods will take birth among demigods, those who worship the ancestors go to them, whose who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among them and those who worship Me will live with Me. 'We can worship whomever we want. If we worship demigods , and go to their place in the end ,, we still have to come back to this earth and reborn. If we worship Lord Krishna, and go to His Kingdom, there is no question of rebirth. Devotional service, with complete surrender at the lotus feet of the Lord, is the way out of this material bondage. Thank YouHare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

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Dear Sadaks,There are 33 crore Devathas (Demi Gods) who cater to run this whole universe in recording all actions of sin or Puniya.This there in Geetha. God as Sriman Narayana is supreme in sustenance. Bagavan Shiva as Samhar.In fact God has NO form- It says- Akshranam, (Sound) Apporvam, (Rare), Apprameyam (Not an object of any shape). But God takes form for HIS Bakthas. Now praying Idols in temple is like studying in school. Learning, reading, of Vedas/Scripts to understand God is like collage studies. Sat Sangh and living in solitude knowing God is Omnipresent is doing Ph.D. Then seeing God in all and in himself is Gyani (Realized One) fit to get liberated. So start with worship of Idol and end with formless.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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-Shree Hari-Dear Varghese,Namaste!O.K. similar thoughts have gone through my mind in the past.From my background very non idle worship. But one night I had a phone call from3000 km away from an old friend, he wanted me to send him the sacred oil thatwas being wept by the Holy Virgin in a church nearby. He wanted it for a dyingmans wish.So I obtained some oil by the good grace of the priest, on my way home I smelledit out of curiosity, at that instant my heart felt the warmest sweetest glow,most unexpected.(Not a reaction I would have expected).My wife and I were presented with a hand painted mandala, soft abstractbeautiful; we rarely take it out of the house. But on the odd occasion that wehave, we have seen some amazing reactions; one lady started to cry and gasped,"It's beautiful", later she said she saw many of the deities(such as youimplied)after we all had meditated upon it, another person changed there andthen, it seem to melt her heart.My wife sees God in it, to me it's Aum..., it seems to pusate with life.Now the Madonna is made of clay or resin, the mandala paint and canvas.BUT.......Om Shanti,Mike Keenor

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Dear Ones Namaste!Varghese Mathew has asked question that has been asked by many others too!God is Just One Existence, Powerful and endowed with Supreme Intelligence to express as many sub-powers at will.This Power and Intelligence with Love and Compassion control fundamental aspects of the Universal Life, the cycles of Creation, Sustenance, and Dissolution. Each aspect is thus represented by personal God or Goddesses! Gita Ch 10/11 deal with ONE Divine Power manifest as many aspects of Life, Bhagwaan Krishna personified.It is not that there are many Gods independent of each others, rather, each is worshiped to glorify that aspect which appeals to a worshiper. Mind is not equipped to comprehend Infinite Intelligence in an abstract way so "personal God" is conceptualized.The idea of many Gods is not properly understood with open mind by those critics.For example, a country vests various Powers to govern its people in a President who then organizes into many organizations, each representing some power to govern and be governed. Actually this one vast Power to lawfully protect one's freedom is organized as many areas of responsibility just as Gods and Goddesses are vested. Ultimately People are God's instruments through whom such powers work, and they in turn, invent various God-Goddesses for good reasons so common man can cultivate faith and is led to knowledge of ONE GOD eventually! So for common people, various Idols represent "their Gods". Idols are not just things of materials nature, but convey to mind of a devotee form of God as Power, Intelligence, Love, Beauty, Benovalence! It doesn't have to be that way for all people. An Idol is an image of God made by mind, but mind itself is made in His Image, by Him only! Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Varghese,FYI, I have responded to this question in detail some time back on a topic "WhyHindu Gods Resort to Violence?" attempting to explain the significance andimportance of polytheism and monotheism.You may want to refer to that.Respects.Naga Narayana

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There not many Gods. God is all pervasive and unique and appears in variousforms. Some forms appear to us superior because that is the property with weare born with natural tendency (dharma) to differentiate between one formand another. So, as per the Priciples of Creation, Destruction andmaintenance of creation, we create the notion of different Gods andGoddesses, we create the notion of different classes of human beings, wecreate the notion of different types of creatures and no-living beings. Itis much later that we realize that the creation of various Gods andGoddesses can not be the ultimate as God has to be there all types of Godsand Goddesses. Then we come to realize that whatever God we create, we cancreate another superior God that created the God we start with. This is a problem. So, Finally, we have to agree that God is ageless, never born,never dead and eternal: also, God is all pervading abd therefore everythingis equal to every other thing containing and contained in this God. There isnothing beyond God and we are in a sense all God.But it is difficult for people to accept that every thing in the creation isnothing but the one and the only one. So, we worship different Gods. So, wecompromise with the logic of creation of God in our mind. That is how God orthe entire creatiion is. Creator is the Creation itself in its entirety. It is in the scheme of Creation laws that we behave the way we do: like you ask question and I trymy reply.Basudeb Sen

======================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

September 14, 2009

Praise The Lord !!!!!!!I am regularly reading your message as spiritually it is interesting for me.I am writing this E-mail to clear one of my doubts i.e. why there are so manyGods and Goddesses and worshipping idols as God has created man on his own imageand how a man can create his creator Almighty The God from clay or any materialsand worship that idols.Awaiting your response,Regards,varghese mathew(One of your regular readers)

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NEW POSTING

Dear Vergese

Your questions start from the assumption that there is no God in clay...any materials, God can not look like humans....etc.... which may not be the best way....

Some one can frame the same questions differently......Am I the almighty?.....Am I present in everything?...clay,..all materials.......How can I experience oneness?.....

Khoj karo ki aap kon ho.....Sab raj khul jayega.....

Understanding is the key....Once you understand, who you are.......every secret will be out.....

Some efforts and some guts are required......it is a challege one has to take for himself to find answers....

Best wishes

Sushil Jain

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SHREE HARI:

RAM RAM.

DO YOU THINK GOD IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IS SENSED BY ANY OF THE SIX SENSES VIZ. SENSE OF SEEING, SENSE OF HEARING, SENSE OF TASTING, SENSE OF SMELLING, SENSE OF TOUCH AND LASTLY SENSE OF THINKING? "VASUDEV: SARVAM" IS THE ESSENCE OF ALL FAITHS AND BELIEFS AND ALL SCRIPTURES AND ALL KNOWLEDGE AND ALL THOUGHTS AND ALL SAYINGS AND ALL OF ALL ALLS. PLEASE READ "DESCRIPTION OF THE INDESCRIBABLE" BY SWAMI RAMDUKHDASJEE AND YOUR QUESTION WILL BE NO MORE.

PLEASE PUT ALL YOUR QUERIES REGARDING GOD AND GODS HERE SO THAT WE MAY TEST OURSELVES ALSO.

THANKS AND REGARDS,

SARVOTTAM.

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Namaskar: "Varghese Mathew",

Sense & Science go hand-in-hand. All machines and chemicals can be sensed due to physical experiments.

So is the Human Body & Mind. Body is sensible and Mind is by Logic.

Worship, basically is a form of Meditation which creates Mental power (Siddih) in Humans. Hindu philosophy says: this Birth is very important to develop the Soul by this practice.Food for Body is what we eat, either raw from tree (formless) or cook and have in a plate (as form of Idol). All Humans Meditate as food for Mind. It depends on every persons wish as all are unique in their (Mental) views like the (physical) finger prints of the Body. Just one type of food will not build a Healthy body. So also Form of Meditation is as per ones liking (many reflections/GODs). Mind & Body are related/interdependent. Non should be forced to follow a particular system and this is Hinduism.

All of us, connected to Social World, excluding Hermits, start by Rituals as 'Bhakti Yog' (emotional) with a Form (Idol, Place, Mantra, Idea) then gradually proceed towards formless. This is one of 'Karma', 'Gyan' & 'Bhakti' Yog ending in Uparati -> Dharna -> Dhyan/Uthsav -> Samadhi -> Moksha.Essentially we are attached to GOD as a family where Mother, Guru, Nature, Father, Friend are images ruling our Mind. So to Reflect on GOD as an Image/Ritual is easy.Try all forms of Meditation, you will find Image from with-in is Best suited for meditation. There are different types of meditation with Image also.

We have example of Two Great Saints in India:1) Ramakrishna Paramahansa ..... He was an Idol worshiper ... even ate non-veg. Fish.... practiced all Faith by staying for sometime in their ashrams.... He was the fastest student who could Meditate to go into Trance on 'Niraakaar' (Image less) when practicing under Yogi Totapuri.2) Swami Vivekananda ... disciple of Ramakrishna ... did not worship Idols .... proved to Muslims 'How they respect Photos/pictures' ... was an exponent of Vedanta ... an expert on world religions.... an avid reader.

Praise The Lord !................. but using Water & Bread to represent Jesus is 'Bhakti Yog' through Emotion.-- RegardsSwapan PURKAYASTHA----------------

My remarks come in the wake of Mr Kaul who has voiced a standard monistic misconception of the actual Vedic facts regarding the Deity.Those who are unable to accept the form and pastimes of the Supreme Lord as they are depicted in the Puranas and other histories choose to see God as impersonal and non-qualitative. This is specifically condemned at numerous places in the Bhagavad-gita and still priests, pandits, scholars or rather so-called scholars alike malign the Vedanta and other texts in support of their claims. But Shree Krishna says in 9/11.

avajaananti maan mudhaa maanushim tanum aashritam param bhaavam ajaananto mama bhuta-maheshvaram. (Gita 9/11)

Such people who therefore conceive of the Deity as stone only and see His descent to the world as another mortal being are called fools by God himself. Then again in 7/24 the Lord uses the word abuddhayah to indicate 'less intelligent' when He says, avyaktam vyaktim aapannam manyante maam abuddhayah param bhaavam ajaananto mamaavyayam anuttamam. Shree Krishna says, that due to their small knowledge they do not know His higher status as imperishable and Supreme but instead think of Him as impersonal. It is called aparaadh or offense to consider the body of the Supreme Deity to be made of matter and that the ultimate absolute is without form, name, personality or features. In the 12th chapter of Gita verse 5 Shree Krishna says that it is very difficult to make any progress with such misconception. We will find this idea creeping up always since it has been touted about by so many impersonalist thinkers and some pages of the Padma Purana.

Per my understanding & study -

It is stated maayaavaad asach chastram pracchanam bauddham uchyate (25/7) or 'the theory of Mayavad (Shankaracharya's commentary to Vedanta, etc. ) The same Purana furthermore states that vedaartavan mahaashastram maayaavaadam avaidikam maayaa eva kathitam devi jagataam naashakaaranat, that the theory of Mayavada, though given a facade of great importance in claiming to be derived from the Vedas is in fact non-Vedic. It is I (Shiva) who has propagated this concocted theory, which will become the cause of the world's destruction'. This last verse was spoken by Shankar himself per my understanding, Shiva who as we know is the god of destruction of the universe. He hesitatingly agreed to Shree Vishnu's request to concoct this propaganda but being the lord of destruction himself , when he did so to execute the order it drew practically the entire Hindu community into its grip. Because of the denial of the form of the Absolute, His qualities and personality, it is highly offensive. To keep his logic tight Shankaracharya even had to go to the extent of accusing Veda Vyasadeva of being wrong . Ultimately as stated in the Padma Purana, Mayavada or the concept of God being without form or qualities is just and extension of Buddhism. Instead of calling the ultimate void or shunya Shankaracharya preferred the word Brahman. However, everything about his philosophy is in total agreement with that of Mahayana Buddhism. Therefore according to me to push this idea as orthodox Hinduism actually the greatest disservice to what should be really called Sanatana Dharma or eternal religious principles. We owe so much honor to Madhavacharya, Ramanujacharya, Vishnuswami and Nimbarkacharya for forcefully preaching the pure ideals of Sanatana Dharma and establishing the principle of the Deity as non-different from the Lord.

avadhuta

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POSTING

God is formless and ineffable. As such all forms are His forms and all attributes are His attributes. Each Idol represents His form and attributes. Thus we do not worship idol but His Form and attributes. When we see the idol of Lord Rama- immediately his attributes of love, affection, truth, power and many others come to our mind. We want to imbibe the same in ourselves and in our children. The Nirguna Brahma has infinite forms and infinite attributes. Worship of each of His Form and Attribute is His worship. Unfortunately this divine and noble concept many other religions do not understand.

with regards,Prem Sabhlok--

Read Swami Vivekanandas writings. mohan K Muju

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Dear varghese mathewNAMASTE

I am glad that this topic has brought interest to you.

May I say that Hinduism or sanatan Dharam is an universal faith fit for every Humans on this earth. The sanatan Dharam has continued for centuries . My only prayers to you...please learn about it with an open mind ...... Pranam

savarkar vinayak --------------------

Western religions and those who are anti Hindu are either confused or deliberately calling or translating the Sanskrit word " DeviDevata " which means one who gives as "God" in English. There is no word for Devi and Devata in English.. All deities referred as "DeviDevata" are translated by these people as "god" and goddess.

God is only one omnipotent , omnipresent, highest power in the world, creator, maintainer and destroyer of the world. Devi and Deveatas are just the symbolism of attributes or so called various personified powers of one God. They need to read Vedas. In a sumple analogy, it is more like president of US is one and has many secretaries carrying out his mission. Scretaries are not presidents (except for uneducated people) because there can be only one president.About the murtis they are also symbls of attributes or powers. For example, the murtis of Ganesh signifies intelligence and knowledge. Indra signifies water, Sun ssignifies light and heat, etc. There is a saying that a picture is equal to million words and a statue is equal many millions of words. Murti is a representation that reminds one of the specific good attributes and powers.Christians have Cross and Jesus' statue every in churches as a symbol of his attribvutes and his teaching. They should understand it. I have seen statues of all the desciples of Jesus in churches. Hindus are no different to have statues of their teachers and highly honored personalities.

"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others: The Constitution of this Republic should make a special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom." - Dr. Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence

Dr. Lakshmi C. Mishra, M.Pharm

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Varghese,

you ask a commonly asked question, about Hinduism.

Hindu philosophy believes that there is only one God. It is not a He or a She God, but an IT---without Gender, and is of the nature of Nature. You come from It and you will go back into it.

Hindu philosophy has also dwelled at length on the nature of this Godhood. depending on one's own level of understanding, maturity, and acceptance, there are various schools of thought on Godhood---

Here are some thoughts and aspects of God per my understanding..........

---Advaita philosophy--- says that God is Nature, this huge Universe, colorless, odorless, shapeless and you are part of it,--- and Tat ( That ) Tvam ( You ) Asi ( Are ), is a long derivation to prove that You indeed are That ( God ). More on this some other time.

---Dvaita Philosophy--easy to understand---God is indeed Colorless, odorless, etc, and yes God is Nature, and you arise out of it, but creation and Creator become separate for His divine play.

---Personal God----is understood by most people, vs an abstract God, and may be a male God or a female God and is superhuman by having multiple hands or faces and seated on a vicious animal, which also becomes its vehicle or a weapon, and since this entity is left for you to develop as you wish, there are hundreds of "gods" or "angels" for wealth, knowledge, strength, or anything else. Divya means brightness and these devas are the bright ones, shining through with their special powers.

So you have a creative element, and you can design a God entity to your level of understanding, out of Nature, therefore out of stone or wood, male or female, seated on any vehicle of your choice, and may even be totally abstract, as long as the Prayer goes top the same "God" regardless of the "form" used to pray. Whether you pray to Ganesha ( the elephant headed), or Laxmi (the female form), or krishna ( male form ), or Hanuman ( the monkey form ), or the 5 Elements ( abstract Ether or Air to more visible Fire, water and earth ), or a completely mental abstract "formless form", you essentially

pray to the same idea of God.

The stone or wood analogy is to the "Christ" form on the cross, made of any material, and you immediately

contemplate on the same idea of Christ, the same person of Christ. These are mere symbols of the underlying

Truths that need to be understood, contemplated on and followed, regardless of the material they are made of or the form which is depicted.

Durgesh Mankikar,MD