Guest guest Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Dear Sadaks, I would like to know the exact meaning in very few lines about " TATVAMASI " B.Sathyanarayan ===================================== GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER 1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path 2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study 3. Only one question at a time. 4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE - 1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted. 2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible. 3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Focus on subject at hand only. 6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address etc) or personalize message to particular person 7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting. 8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed. MODERATOR Ram Ram ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Dear Sadaks,I would like to know the exact meaning in very few lines about "TATVAMASI"B.Sathyanarayan===================================== NEW POSTING Shree Hari Ram Ram For Whom the word "Tvam" has been used in "Tat Tvam Asi" is beyond description, no matter what man continues to go on saying on the basis of his limited knowledge. So be it.Vineet Sarvottam ------------------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Just few obesrvations:These words Tat Tvam Asi were heard(shruti) and so, they were spoken too by Rishi of Upanishad. Since then, they are repeated, and explained by many sages too!So we cannot stop by saying God is beyond words, rather, we need to poke further!When it is said in the scriptures that God is beyond mind, intellect, sense organs, even conscience, it is not that it is not our experiencing of Being Conscious right now! What it means is that God cannot be described as "something", some objects that is perceived by senses, and immediately conceived by mind, intellect saying "ok, this is God"! In otherwords, God is not an object of which we are subject like all other experiences are! God is THE Subject and if one tries to go deep, He is ALL OBJECTS too, and finally there is only ONE, THAT THOU ART! It is like an eye cannot see itself while seeing everything that is not itself. Does an eye need a proof of its own existence other than the fact it sees(IS)? The fact that it sees is "the understanding" on the part of the eye! Similarly the fact that senses-mind-intellect operate is the proof of Being and Knowing that one IS! When perceptions are freed from all conceptions, all is reduced to just ONE EXISTENCE, GOD! Conceptions are names and forms, separate appearances!Thus, it follows, All perceiving Consciousness Itself cannot be perceived, offering no proof of it as being limited, and is what scriptures call GOD! Swamiji calls Supreme Consciousness!As Mike says, "it is the knowing beyond senses", a direct knowing(Aparoksha Anubhuti), most certain of all knowings with mind, which is indirect knowing, empirical in nature! Finally: If it is bad news that God cannot be known by mind, only tool of cognition we have, then, there is good news that one need not know God as object, rather, one IS, just realize it NOW!Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt ----------------- Dear Sadaks,Please refer the sloka where it starts with , "Yem Yem------------"In many places in Geetha Bagavan has said "ME" referring HIMSELF. In this context, Bagavan has not said you are ME. HE says you are "That". Then what does "That" mean?B.Sathyanarayan ---------------- I find no difference between aham bramhasmi and tat twam asi.The chidakasa and maha kasa are one and the same.Guru gives these mahavakyas when the desciple attains peak level in his sadhana.At that stage only a sadhaka can experience the meaning of these maha vakyas Badri Narayana Miriyala ----------- My Guru explained it in 3 stories---- 1) I pick up a cup made of styrofoam ( the modern version is so much easier to explain than the Vedic---ghatam, said Swamiji !! ). There is also an artificial ceiling in this room made of styrofoam, This is styrofoam, and that is also styrofoam. If I break this cup, and straighten the syrofoam, the two are almost the same, other than the thickness of the one in the ceiling, he said. Now, What happened to the cup Form ? Is it under the styrofoam, over the styrofoam, or somewhere else ? Indeed, the form exists in Space, at all times. We only give it a "dimension" by making it out of gold, silver, paper, wood, or in this case styrofoam !! Advantage of this Form is that you can drink from this Form now, or store something in it, or use it as a paper weight, if it is strong enough, which you cannot from the artificial ceiling. We also gave it a name---a Cup, vs other such similar forms, a bowl, a saucer, etc..... In his inimical style, he then goes into another story---what if we make cups of different colors, and different sizes, and put a Mind element in them. Immediately, one will say--I am a White Cup, or a Thin Cup.......! And You are a Black cup, or a Fat cup, a brahmin cup or a scheduled caste cup.......!! There may be an election among cups, and they will ask to be voted for these characteristics.......Ha Ha....the crowd enjoys this as much as the intellectual version....... He has made two points already------ a) the Form exists at all times in Space, and b) You give the Form its true Form by putting the basic Form into a glass, gold or siver container. The basic form in Space is a Non-dependent Form, whereas the one with styrofoam or glass or gold, is a Dependent Form. You can only use the Dependent Form for functionality. The Dependent Form is called as Maayaa, because it has a function in that particular shape, but if you break the shape, it cannot exist independently. Maya is not untruth....... it is a functional and dependent reality. Truth exists by itself, and is independent reality. Also, when you break the cup, the Space inside it merges with the one outside, and there is no difference between the 2 spaces---it is one and the same !! Maya is NOT UNTRUTH. Example of absolute Untruth ---is a person without hands or legs, is seen "running", "holdingflowers from the sky". This person has "horns of a rabbit". This whole scene is "seen" by a blind man, who "tells" it to a deaf man, who is also dumb ( by speech), who narrates it to the whole world, although he cannot speak !!! Lesson # 1---Maya is not untruth, it is only not SAT, the independent reality. Maya is a dependent reality. All that we are surrounded by is Maya--Dependent reality, including us. when you break one piece of Maya, its content---Space merges with the one outside it, without demonstrating any chemical or physical change---into an Eternal Form that always exists---the only real truth--Sat ! 2) Story # 2....... I wear this shirt. Can I say I am wearing a cloth...??? Yes, indeed. Cloth is independent reality, while a shirt is a dependent reality. Shirt is Maya, while Cloth becomes the Sat ( for a while ). Can I then say, I am wearing Fibres ? Yes, ofcourse, fibres are now independent reality( Sat ) , while Cloth is a dependent reality ( Maya ) !!! Can I now break this down to the absloute utmost and say, I am wearing molecules of DNA or RNA or Energy ? Energy---Shakti is the absolute Utmost Independent reality ( the ONLY SAT !!! ), while everything else is a dependent reality ( Maya !! ). Every Dependent reality has a necessity in nature---be it a cup, a house, a car, ( Man made ), or a tree, or an animal, or a human,( Nature made ), and is required in propogation of the species, or Life on this mother earth---the only Living Planet so far, and everything else in Vedanta----all the Space is full of Life and Energy, which keeps re-cycling itself, and is present in all "living" and "non-living" forms---says the Ishopanishad. Hindu mythology has even created a "Narasimha" form to explain that all non-living entities are indeed Living entities ! Lesson # 2---The Tat and the Tvam are same---Life, Energy and Space. All Space and all Life is ultimately----- Energy. 3) The third story----I stand under a table----the table is below me. I stoop under a table, the table is now above me. Presuming this is Truth---is all truth relative ? Is there any Absolute Truth ? He says further----Sit in a room, in the corner of that room, preferably in your basement, ---all open Space has come to an end. Now, close all the curtains and close your eyes------the world of Vision has come to an end. Now start meditating, or put ear plugs ------and soon the world of Sound will also come to an end. Now, meditate---the world of Mind and thoughts has come to an end. Now try to negate yourself ! Can you ? You cannot--the life force within you, the basic energy--is the only absolute Truth, and is present in every one. Take 3 bodies---a dead person, a person in coma, and a sleeping person. The dead person is cold, and cannot follow commands. The person in coma also cannot follow commands, until he comes out of his coma, but is warm. The sleeping person, is warm to touch, will wake up, and follow your commands. The warmth is your basic energy. The following of commands is dependent on your status of your mind, and if you have enough energy ( not ill ), you can even move your body. Lesson # 3---The same Energy that exists outside also exists inside. The same Space that exists outside, also exists inside. Tat Tvam Asi !!! That ( outside )Tvam ( inside) Asi ( is same ) !!! After Swamiji's thorough explanation, no further anlysis is usually necessary !! I have imparted what I have learnt from my Guru---Swami Dayananda Saraswati, of Rishikesh ( Har-ki-pavdi, Gangadham), of Annaikutti ( Tamil Nadu ) and Saylorsburg, ( Pennsylvania). All credit goes to him. Durgesh Mankikar,MD ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Durgeshji, Thank you ! But PLEASE REMEMBER TO BE BRIEF IN FUTURE. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram -------------------- We live in physical world...Physical Universe...Physical Cosmos. Our ancestorstoo lived here. All Life Forms also are living and lived in the past hereitself. What is common in the Life Forms who lived millions of years back, in uswho are presently living and those who will live millions of years hence...Youall know...It is Atma...Atma cannot be abstract in this Physical Cosmos...The phyical form of Atma is...Genetic Material...which was created by some Super Power and that is eternaltill this Planet Earth can sustain Life....THE GENETIC MATERIAL IS ....A T M A......Gee Waman - PRIOR POSTING Namaste!THAT THOU ART! It is Realization proclaimed by Upanishad Sages!That and Thou is One single Reality. Atman is Brahman! "Thou" or "you" doesn't point to body-mind-sense complex as generally taken. Atman that you are is Brahman First Realization is that "you are Atman, pure Existence-Being and the most important Realization, or breakthrough Realization is that This Very Atma is not "Personal", is verily the Impersonal Beingness-Consciousness-Bliss. It is very important to see that "thou" or "you" doesn't point to an individual person-you being Brahman or THAT! Here THAT has no opposites because only THAT IS!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt ------------------------- Dear Sadaks,Buddha once he realized sitting under Boodhi tree, was found dumb for 7 days. Everyone thought he became mentally retarded. But only when he spoke after 7 days, his words were divine. God is even beyond PURE conscience says Vedas. From speech of Buddha to a man who offered Lotus at his feet, says that God the supreme is cannot be explained and shown even with pure conscience after realization. But if HE wills only, one can get glimpse of what IT (God). Very same words Markandeya Maha Rishi ( Blessed by Bagavan Shiva as always 16 years old ever living) tells looking at Sri Maha Vishnu when HE appeared in Badrinath to him. Vedas and Sri Vishnu are one and same says Bagavan. But the vedic upanashid says, it not possible to describe GOD. That to say, Bagavan is even beyond pure conscience.B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------- That you are means that you are the Self or the Atma or the soul, whose goal is to unite with the Parmatma or God. You are not the visible gross body. You have Godhood within you, which never perishes. Only that which remains forever is real. All else is false even death for the soul can never die. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Sri Naga Narayanaji, Deepest gratitude to you, for having been able to express my sentiments through your posting. With gratitude, Vineet Sarvottam ---------------------Thath means the self which is identical with Brahman the supreme self. Thou means the jeevathma who even though the Brhman in reality, imagines that he is differnet identifying himslf with ht ebody, mind and intellect. Asi means you are that meaning You , who thinks that you are the body, mind and intellect and thus have a separate identity is in reality only Brahman.I am sending you my writings on the chapter from the upanishads in which the statement thath thavm asi occurs .THis will appear as series in and I am sending it to my contacts and my online sanskritclass students.You can become a member in the appliedgita or I will include you to my mailing list of my contacts to whom I ma sending my writongs on several topics. PLease let meknow which category I can include you.saroja Ramanujam ------------------------------- annam aSitham threDhaa viDheeyathe thasya yaH sThvishTaH Dhaathuh thath pureesham bhavathi yo madhyamah thath maamsam yo aNishTaH thath manaH The food eaten becomes divided in to three parts. The grossest becomes the refuse matter to be excreted. The part of middle nature becomes the nutrient and forms the flesh. The subtlest part becomes the mind. aapaH peethaa threDhaa viDheeyanthe thaasaam yaH sThavishTaH DhaathuH than moothram bhavathi yo maDhyam thath lohitham yo aNishTaH saH praaNaH The water drunk becomes three kinds. The grossest becomes the urine, the middle part becomes blood and the subtlest part becomes praNa, vital air. PraNa is not created by water but to remain in the body it requires water. thejo aSitham threDhaa viDheeyathe thasyayaH sThavishTaH DhaathuH thath asThi bhavathi yo maDhyamaH saH majjaa yo aNishTaH saa vaak Fire eaten ( in the form of ghee and oil) become three kinds, the grossest becomes the bones the middle part becomes the marrow and the subtlest becomes the speech. The truth of these statements are further explained in a later passage. annamaya hi sowmya aapomayah praanaH thejomayee vaak ithi bhooya eva maam bhagavan vijjnaapayathu ithithaThaa somya ithi hovaacha Thus my dear boy the mind is made up of food, (earth), prana is made up of water and the speech is made up of fire, (said the father) Explain it further to me .revered one, (said the son) sure (said the father ) Svetha kethu is not able to understand how these three are na made up of earth, water and fire respectively while the earth itself is the combination of the three elements. The father explains further. dhaDhnaH sowmya maThyamaanasya yo aNimaa sa oorDhvaH samudheeshathi thatn sarpiH ithi When the curd is being churned the subtlest part rises up and that becomes ghee. That is, when the curd is churned the subtlest part which is butter rises up and that becomes ghee when heated, this is the thejas part. evameva khalu soumya annasya aSyamaanasyayo aNimaa sa oorDhvaH samudheeshathi thath mano bhavathi similarly my dear, of the food which is eaten the subtle part rises above and become the mind. The food eaten is digested with the help of digestive juices and the jataragni, the element of water and fire and that which is not digested goes out and the part which is neither gross nor subtle forms the nutrient which causes the growth of the flesh and the subtle part forms the mind. apaam soumya peeyamaanaanaam yo aNimaa sa oorDhvaH samudheeshathi s praaNo bhavathi The subtlest part of water drunk thus, my dear, rises above and becomes prana. thejasaH soumya asyamaanasya yo aNimaa sa oorDhvam samudheeshathi saa vaak bhavathi The subtlest part of fire eaten thus, my dear, rises above and becomes speech. annamaya hi soumya mana aapomayaH praaNaH thejomayaa vaak ithi bhooya eva maa bhagvan vijnaapayathu ithi thaThaa soumya ithi hovaacha Thus the mind is made up of food(earth) prana of water and speech of fire, (said father, the son asked) explain it further please revered one, (father said ) let it be so my dear. Then Uddhalaka Aruni illustrated this by means of a practical lesson. Dr.Saroja Ramanujam, M.A.,Ph.D - Hari OmA thought came on Tat Tvam Asi . You are That. What are you? You are That ! What is that? That is opposite of This! What is "This" ? "This" is idam? This is inert ! This is body. This is nature. This is Apara ! This is Jad. This is perishable. (Idam shariram Kaunteya kshetram.... BG 13:1)You are what? You are different than "this"! You are "that" ! You are not Jad (idam- this) you are chetan (that). You are not body (this), you are soul (that). You are not mortal( this) , you are immortal (that). You are not Prakruti( this) , you are Purusha (that). You are not perishable (this), you are imperishable (that) !!Just a thought!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------------------------- Dear Sadaks,It is there in Bagavath Geetha, said by Bhagavan. Like Sant Ramanuja told a mantra to go to Vaikunt- "Om Namo Narayanaya". But it does not work as the deapth in which meaning it is said is "Rahasiyam" (Sanskrit word) means truth hidden. No millions words- Bagavan said in 2 lines only. Sri Raja Gurdasani is near. Sri Durgesh Mankikar,MD said "Tat = That, Tvam = You. Asi = Are." Sadaks, like in Geetha Bagavan refers himself as ME. Bagavan is himself Tattuvam- not 2 seperate. Then "That"- refers to something else. Bagavan could have said- Tat is ME. The space in cup and outside the cup is one and same. Material creates Maya as if it is divided. Bagavan in us will illumine the answer.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -Shree Hari-Namaste!Most commonly quoted, in the old English form,"THOU ART THAT".From my understanding. A million lines could not express the exact meaning!But in a moments flash as it were, it could be understood, but notintellectually!So a point came to mind, about that women who was made brain dead, for thatground breaking operation I mentioned before.I asked who/what saw without eyes, heard without ears, stored this memory inwhat, to be remembered later? Brother Vyas mentioned consciousness, I would readthat as pure consciousness, or the Buddhist's expression subtle consciousness,that subtle essence beyond nature and time, but is aware.This is not an explanation of TAT TVAM ASI, but merely a thought, a reminder ofthe fact there is knowing beyond the senses.Best I can do!Om... Shanti...Mike. (K)------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Shri Naga Narayanaji, to you and to several others - Thank you for being able to express succinctly and with deep sentiments, the various thoughts that have arisen in my mind ! Thank you very much Vineet Sarvottam ---------- Hari Aum!Durgesh Mankikar ji ,Would like to know your bigger explanation Geetha subramanian Durgesh, Can you elaborate more??? Thanks Heta Raval -- PRIOR POSTING I would like to know the exact meaning in very few lines about "TATVAMASI" "Tattvamasi : TAT TVAM ASI" means "YOU ARE THAT". What YOU means? ... What THAT means? ... What ARE means? ... That cannot be explained even in zillions of words and sentences ... because,any language cannot even reach there, let alone explain! They are words ... merewords ... what we appreciate IS within ... best explained by the AbsoluteSilence within where no explanations can enter. Respects. Naga Narayana ---------------------------- TAT-TWAM-ASI In the amazed wonder of discovery, Govinda, narinder danced, "Tum Hee Ho, Krishna, Tum Hee Tau Ho!" And the whole Universe reverbrated with the sound Tat-twam-asi, Tat-twam-asi, Tat-twam-asi !!! narinder was no more, never-more, never-ever ! And Existence rejoiced, "Tat-twam-asi, narinder, Tat-twam-asi..... ......Sing narinder sing, sing the song of Love now, , sing the song of One-ness aham braham-asmi, aham braham-asmi ...... aum !" AUM " tu tu karta tu bhaya .............. " ( thou , beloved.....thou , thou, thou, thou it is, singing the song 'thou, thou, thou .....tat twam asi ) Ek Aumkar Sat Naam (gurbani) narinder bhandari --- That is you what u are searching is your own swaroopThanxRaja Gurdasani----------------- This can be a very short or a very long answer, depending on your understanding.In short, Tat = That, Tvam = You. Asi = Are. You are That. You are that God outside and inside. Look at a cup. there is space inside the cup and there is space outside the cup.If you break the cup, what happens ? The two spaces merge, leading to one Space.There is no chemical reaction, whether the cup was hot or cold. What about the cup itself ? There is a bigger explanation, but since you want a short explanation---there is space between every molecule of the cup. In fact, the cup is a soldified Space, with molecules that are placed very close together. Everything is Space. Everything is energy. Everything is God. I can give you a bigger explanation, if you desire. Durgesh Mankikar,MD ---- GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed. MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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