Why there appears to be No Justice? How long to continue with this struggle?

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Hari OmRespected Swamiji ,We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the mostdishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them whilepeople who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot . They work hard , they don'texploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle. How long can a person goon with hard work honestly . if he doesn't get the returns which he deserves ,isn't it natural for him to get depressed and disillusioned with life , peopleand God ? What should be his stand ? From where should he derive strength andcourage to move on with life ?Vasundhara----------------------

NEW POSTING

We have the power to stop all suffering. We have the power to live in bliss....

 

Understanding is the key.....

Understand clearly how things happen......Understand the wisdom/rules of life,

 

smallest difficulty may appear to be very big.....

a small achievement can give you tremendous happiness....

It all depends on where your attention is.....

If you attention is on others, on difficulties.....you will miss out the happiness part....

 

Wisdom is to stop comparing with others.....understand and live your life...focus and put your attention to

all you have......anything positive that happens in your life....in due course of time....you will see your

happiness increasing and your difficulties will not be difficulties but will be opportunities for learning and becoming better.......But all this needs some courage, patience and faith/trust......

Results are guaranteed...try it....

 

Sushil Jain

 

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in the domain of Truth, never ever is there any injustice , all is beautiful and just ......

 

and, Existence bestows on one, who knows the self .....

 

bestows the wisdom and strength to ' feel' and 'know' that........

 

all that happened was 'shubha' (auspicicious ).. all that is happening is shubha ..... all that shall ever happen cannot be other than 'shubha'

 

 

in the realm of the False, in the land of dreams,

 

all is False, all is ashubha, all is pain, fear and delusion

 

every joy is but a short respite sandwiched within two pains ..............ah !

 

injustice everywhere, abuse and despair, beat their drum everywhere .....

 

shrieking in the movement of Time and Space ............... !!!

 

 

 

yet the Truth is Bliss , ananda it is .............. immutably just .............

 

 

 

but the wakeful state and the dream state, necessarily are opposite in scope

 

in scope and understanding ............

 

the False is painful in its law of depletion , ................. and Truth ...........

 

Truth is NOT subject to the Law of depletion ............

 

 

the false, when shared with the other,

 

gets depleted, and the depletion brings with it, a sense of loss and pain,

 

giving birth to possessiveness, greed and attachment ...........................

 

 

the TRUE, when shared , grows more, spreads its blossoms ..............

 

Love, Light or Knowledge true , when shared, grows and grows, ever grows

 

giving birth to deathless joy ever revelling in renunciation , ever fulfilled in the self..........

 

 

when this is seen and understood, the sense of injustice vanishes .............

 

the joy of God's Immutable law, multiplies

 

all is realised as nought but justice divine ..............

 

 

 

ah, friends, it is all one's choosing .................

 

choose the False and writhe in the pain of injustice.....

 

choose the True, and rejoice in the feel of the Justice divine in your Life and living .....

 

the world is perfect as it is ............. at every point of time ,

 

it is narinder, who is unsettled ..........................................

 

it is just that, aligned with the false , ' Injustice ', he cries .................!!

 

 

 

this then, brings nari to the point ................

 

become aware of the false as the false ............. and this touchstone in your life and living apply

 

 

what gets depleted on use, know it as false .......... care not for it, renounce and shed from your life ....

 

what grows when shared ............. know it as True , clutch it to your bosom, hold it tight ..............

 

AUM

 

narinder bhandari

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-Shree Hari-Namaste,Dear Lynn,When you learn more you will fully understand, we are all Children of theUniverse.The Supreme Lord has described the Gunas, the engines in nature that make uswhat we are, these Gunas have to be risen above.I have lived in a number of countries, when one looks past the the surface, youwill find villains and saints. If you knew the sort of work for humanity thatSadhaks perform, like me you would be humbled.I will stand corrected, but I believe Swamiji made a statement along the lines,that if you hide your sins they will increase, and if you hide your virtues theyalso will increase!A person who has led a pure and blameless life, can suffer terribly,Sweet Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, died of throat cancer, when still quiteyoung.I once asked a question about Karma to a High Lama, I have never seen so muchcompassion and love in anybodies eyes as his, he softly said, "Karma is a verydifficult subject".This thread has a fair distance to run, maybe you and I can be like littlechildren, and learn from the wise!Om ... Shanti...Mike. (K)--

 

Hari OmAnswers to balance queries of Vasundharaji !Q How long can a person goon with hard work honestly . if he doesn't get the returns which he deserves ,isn't it natural for him to get depressed and disillusioned with life , people and God ?Ans: The person under Q will have to suffer and keep suffering so long as he/she does not renounce 'desire for fruits' ("returns" as referred by you). No ! It is not 'natural' for a person to do karmas with result in focus.Nothing suggests to him/her that in this world. Does people around him, incidences, happennings around him ever suggest that in this world every body gets results as per expectations/desires? No ! Not at all !!Not getting 'results' of karmas as per expectations should not make a person'depressed or disillussioned' with either life or people or God ! He/she should merely stop 'expectations for fruits' , and with that all sorrows/depressions/disillussionments vanish ! Where is the wisdom in complaining that fire is hot ? Where is wisdom in presuming that in 'Dukhalayam' there may be 'sukh' ? In the human life, the 'doing' only is under your control, never 'happening' ! It is an established principle. Why we should break our heads in trying to control that which is uncontrollable? Is there any wisdom in that? Q What should be his stand ? Ans: My eye hence forth shall be set on my 'duty' only and not on 'results' of karma. I am doing my duty. If result is good, wonderful. If result is bad, excellent. He should be 'careful in doing' and 'happy in happenning' !!Q From where should he derive strength andcourage to move on with life ?Ans: From doing his duties as prescribed by Scriptures without expecting anything in return. Real power comes in a human, the moment he renounces 'desire' ! That power is so quick, astonishing and direct that one instead 'moving on' with life.... gallops !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Respected Swamiji,

 

Ram Ram.

 

While we are in this transitory world, we do need things which will make our life, and that of our dependents, at least bearable. By saying that all wealth, happiness, relatives etc. are transitory, does not make one's life any the easier, if the dishonest person or a worldly clever person is able to look after himself and his family, better than the one who only lives with and for God and suffers extreme poverty or a much lower living for himself and his family. The philosophy professed by our Saints etc. all the time would look quite hypocritical and in effect the religious person is living a 'other worldly' life; in which case he should not get married etc. but must remain a brahmachari and do bhagwad bhajan until he or she gets his moksha or death!

But once one gets married or has responsibility for brothers, sisters, parents etc. one must make money to be able to discharge one's duties to his/her dependents. Of course one should never forget God and must pray to him all the time while discharging one's duties in this world while here.

 

I would appreciate comments of Swamiji and other bhaktas! Life is a journey and while we are on this journey for example trvelling in a train, should we be hanging outside the compartment or have a seat to sit down for ourselves and our dependents making the journey if not enjoyable but at least bearably comfortable. I think everyone is trying to do this while living! rather than completely relying on God to put each morsel in one's mouth.

 

So, swamiji kindly profess a more practicable philosophy rather than degrading the world necessities as transitory only but which in fact are also necessary while one lives!

 

That's how America, Europe and other prosperous countries in the world are attracting everyone, including all the Swamis, etc. who flock here, for what, for Moksha to the ones who fled India for having an honest and better TRANSITORY life here; or the Swamis want to bring them back to India for doing bhakti. Please be somewhat practical and realistic in your sermons rather than giving false ideas and hopes!

 

JAI RAM JIKI, JAI SHRI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.

 

BHAVDIY,

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

The greatest injustice is done by our own self. Reliance on and and depending on the transient for our happiness. Laxmiji is "chanchal" and does not stay for long anywhere, yet we look at those who have wealth "Laxmi" with envy, respect, awe and adoration. We are giving importance to the transient things that are bound to leave us. We always expect from the world... because we think "WE ARE DESERVING". We get DEPRESSED AND DISILLUSIONED... because the world is not dancing to our tune and doing justice to us and living up to our expectations. Are we really deserving? Let us all take a sincere and serious inventory of our own selves, and surely we will find out that we are not only not deserving, but God has been showering His mercy and compassionate all along, only out of unconditional love. Please remember these words by Swamiji and once and for all GIVE UP EXPECTING FROM THE WORLD / FROM OTHERS.....You will see the magic there after.....

"Sansaar saathi sab swaarth ke hai, pakke virodhi parmarth ke haiDegaa ne koyi dukh mein sahaara, sun tu kisi ki mat baat pyaara.""The world and the people in it are selfish, they are extremely opposed to spiritualityNo one will support you in your sufferings, therefore don't listen to anyone."

Simply become God's.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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I am learning a lot here.We often don't get what we deserve in life.Neverthelessif we choose to live honorably we do so because it is our way.We don't give toget back or do so others can return the favor.We give because it is within ourhearts and do because we want to.I am so impressed when I see New Yorkersvolunteer.They are doing this because they care.I think that is the mainfocus.We must do because we care not because we expect it back.This is myAmerican attitude but it is the way I live.I have volunteered and will continueto volunteer in soup kitchens and senior homes.That is my way.Lynn----------------------

Madam, Suffering and prosperity are dual and opposite.If you want wealth there are many rituals to perform.Let us pray god to give that much of wealth sufficient for our family.Wealth is worldly .Do you want wealth or god.Decide your self. our elders use to tell about the hell and the sufferings we undergo after our death. But I saw many people suffer on this earth for their evil deeds before their death.90% of hell treatment is completed here only.Did not you notice old people asking god to take them away because their suffering here is more rigorous than in hell.Lastly have faith in god He is the Kartha and the bhoktha.Badri Narayana Miriyala

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In my feeling all the souls existing in body do not have equal status. Those who have attained advance position due to their previous scores get back the returns in their same birth (whether good or bad) while rest have to wait for several cycles. This creates the apparent anomaly.

Regards to all.

Barin Chatterjee

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PRIOR POSTING

Daughter Vasundhara, Hard work and working honestly is an extra ordinary realization. He who only cooks for himself, for his self consumption is said to incur sin, and is given punishment like a thief. (Gita 3/12 and 3/13). It is better to undergo difficulties and sorrow where there is rememberance of God, than to acquire happiness and worldly things and live downfall from humanity. So be it. Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Ones Namaste!Vasundharaji has asked the question that all of us at one time or other in our lives may have asked or wondered or kept it to ourselves!When you take the shelter of Bhagwat Gita, not merely out of curiosity, but to find out the Truth about living in this world, and meaning of God, all such questions get answered, it is the fact.Take just one verse, for example, BG 2:47 Karmanyevadhikar........It means all you can do is to perform actions, results of which is not in your control. This means accept or rather welcome outcomes, take responsibility, learn from them and do the best again and again. When one deeply understands, contemplates on it, at its highest level , one would take actions in themselves as their own fruits/results too, this way you cannot be disappointed being non-dependent on such results. Be always guided by Dharma and perform those actions which bring greater good including society, family and oneself! Please feel this truth of Gita passionately.Just suppose that one can do as mentioned, is he/she going to worry about justice for him/her personally? One may fight for justice for all, like Arjuna or more recently Mahatma Gandhi did, wouldn't it be so? After all is said and done, what good is the money, fame, power etc that some people apparently seem to get away with but are so much unhappy? Gita will convince one firmly that it is the utter Simplicity, Unconditional Love, Joy, Peace, Harmony, Compassion, and appreciation of Beauty, that really matter, and these are inner attitudes, qualities, and understanding that depend on no external objects. I mean it!Wouldn't it be nice to be non-dependent on "things" and yet be happy, free of conflict and be Grateful for everything one has or doesn't have?I do realize that some may say "oh, its easy to say that than to face problems of life without these things of the world". But then it is not meant for such people who say this and suffer by thinking "oh these dishonest people get away with everything and are enjoying, whereas people like me are honestly working hard and not getting anywhere". Such thinking in itself is distraction, and robs one of meaningful actions that bring joy, such as study of scriptures, satsangs, association with Mahatmas!When one sees the Life as Glory of Ishwara, one ceases to complain, plays the assigned role, and apparently goes Home when the Play is over!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadaks,What Sri Vasundaraji said is very correct: But a small correction- What we SOWED only we are reaping. No doubt. The person who is bad in society but blessed with riches without any strain, is considered that he is heading for dooms day to hell. A person gains more wealth when he does wrong things, because then only he will do more and more sins, due to raise in Ego, fame Etc. Actually everything on earth appears ULTA (Upside down) for normal person. The man struggles is heading for heavens, as his past sins are getting washed away by his sufferings and he gets to heaven very quickly in same birth or atleast in next birth for sure. Where as the man doing all wrong things, gains wealth provided by Dur Devathas, so that his sins are stored in multi folds. But this same bad one gets next birth in very distressed way of life, suffering, begging, disease prone, and remains in slum with poorest facility. This is said in Vivekachudamani. Other way also see: God gets pleased when the one behaves well, honest Etc inspite of poverty and naturally take him to HIS abode putting end to all sufferings once in for all. Now the bad one goes in front of God, Do you think HE will bless him? This earth is Karma boomi- all karmas and Vasanas has to be dissolved to reach the highest state.B.Sathyanarayan

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Hari OmA superb Q indeed by Vasundharaji ! On something which is part of direct experience and something which is invariably perceived by almost every human being sometime or other during the human life with reference to oneself as well as others.I will answer in detail as the Q has many significant questions hidden in it ! Sadhaks may freely ask Qs ! It is a very significant spiritual query by Vasundharaji.But Vasundharaji - What prevents a person in becoming happy right now? Right now !! Anyway let us address your Qs one by one. Sentence by sentence !Q We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the most dishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them while people who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot .(Next posting will cover Laxmi aspect of Q) Ans: At the outset let me state that what is uncontrollable viz. Law of Karma referred by you is not responsible for making a man happy or sorrowful. ( favourable or adverse circumstances only are produced by fate/destiny/ Law of Karma). Your (controllable) wisdom or stupidity is responsible for the same. No result, of whatsoever size/nature or duration , meted out by operation of Law of Karma is capable enough to make you happy or sorrowful- it is a Law !! By the way, people are "seen" only to be happy/sad or they "actually" are happy/sad? Any way ! The good people seen by you to be suffering are not suffering due to their present conduct and deeds but are suffering due to their past karmas and deeds. Their present good deeds will give them results in future. Similarly apparently evil doingpeople are enjoying due to good deeds done in the past. Their present bad deeds will give them results in future. Every karma gives some immediate results and some future results. Every karma leaves imprints on "svabhav" (habit)- on your antahkarana/chitta. "Svabhav" is important propellor of new karmas. Further whatever is "seen" by you is mostly with reference to availability/ non availability of material things . But actually, one may not be happy even after having all material possessions and one may not be sorrowful in total absence of material possessions also. Happiness/Sorrow are not linked with material possessions . They are linked with presence or absence of peace inside you. Where is happiness without peace? In favourable circumstances, a man is proud of himself; he hates those who are inferior to him and is envious of other person's better fortune. All these sentiments, like pride, greed, desires, envy, fear, sense of insecurity, disturb his mental peace. His desires for more and more never allow him to be at peace. On the top of it there is constant fear of losing pleasures and there is constant anxiety of maintaining them. 'Conscience' keeps biting him, if he is not conducting well at present. Thus, externally, he seems happy but actually he is not. His present bad conduct is planting seeds of future sorrows in his antahkarana continuously. No bad conduct can ever go without bad results.Similarly a poor but good man may externally seem to be suffering but actually his life may be serene and happy, because he has lesser desires and satisfaction with lesser possessions. Peace lies in contentment (satisfaction). Who enjoys food better? A rich man or poor ? A labourer has a sound sleep, even under a tree but a rich man may not get good sleep inspite of sleeping on a luxury bed. A multi millionaire may be prohibited by doctor to eat sugar or salt even. Hence possessions and affluence do not make a man happy and their absence does not make him sad. Real happiness consists in serenity and happiness of heart, real sorrow lies in burning sensation in the heart and absence of peace. The most "lakhpatis" ( owners of millions) and "crorepatis". (Owners of billions ) are not "patis" (owners/masters) at all. They are "lakhdass" / "croredass" (slaves of millions/billions) ! They are not masters, they are slaves. How can a slave be ever happy?And Happiness / Sorrow is controllable and is not output of Law of Karma. You can become happy instantly irrespective of given circumstances/ situations !!What prevents in becoming happy right now?Q They work hard , they don't exploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle.Ans : In the Vana Section of Mahabharat there is an anecdote. One day Draupadi asked Yuddishthara... "You are suffering in exile following righteousness (dharma) , while Duryodhana is leading a luxurious life by enjoying kingdom inspite of his unrighteousness and selfishness. Why?" Yuddishtara replied.... "Those who follow the path of righteousness in order to get pleasures , actually dont know righteousness in the true sense ofthe term. They are just like animals who hanker after pleasures without knowing righteousness. Humanity consists in following righteousness without caring for good/bad circumstances !!Balance Qs later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------

What Vasundhara says is absolutely true. This is the complaint of most honestpeople. But this is the wy the World is. That is what Gautama Buddha realisedand took Sannyas. Then he through meditation realised the Truth of how to getover this basic problem of life.Much earlier the Indian philosophers and saints found the approach that is mostsuitable to deal with this frustration and struggle in life. So they said:1. Do not have a desire, become desire free. If you do so, you do not comparehow you struggle and how others enjoy.Since one has no desire, he is never disappointed for not getting or achievinganything,2. Do not get attached to the fruits of your actions. If you do things honestlydo it without expecting any return or benefit from such actions. Since you arenot attached with any good or bad consequences of your actions and doing actionsas you happen to act as per your conscience, you have no regrets,disappointment.3. Do not have the self-ego that identifies yourself as an independentdecision-maker or doer of actions. If whatever you do just happens as like theSun burns and give light or the earth spins and moves in her orbit or the treegrows, gives fruits and flowers away and dies or get cut for man's use as woodenfurniture, you do not feel sad or frustrated because all action of yours are notyours but actions that happens through your body and mind. You do not normallydecide to inhale and exhale: breathing happens independent of your decisionmaking. All actuions that you happen to be associated with may be thought of asjust happenning and not due to your independent decision-making or your owndoing.4. Do not think anything in this world is really different from you. All arethe same. Happiness and sorrow are the same. You and your friends and enemiesare the same. All the outcome of the process of the uinverse's continuouscreation, evolution, maintenance and destruction. In all these the ultimatepower exists in some form. This knowl;edge makes you identify yourself with theultimate orgin of the entire Creation and the creator. You just become a witnessto whatever is happenng in this world without any compklain or iking ordisliking. Once you follow all the above, you start livng a very different life than thenormal human life. You have no more the fear of bad things happening to you, youare not anylonger excited about good things happening to you, you are not anylonger worried about the uncertain future or about death or about meeting yourhunger and other basic needs. Thus, you just be the witness to whatever is happening observing but unaffectedin your mind.Very rarely does a person become like that. But those who try progresses tovarious extent towards that state of liberation from sensual pleasures, desires,attachment, ego and differences in forms. He becomes progressively contentedand fine with anything that happens.Once you move along this approach or path, provided the tendencies or propertiesyou have inherited genetically from your parents and ancesestors are congentialor supportive of following such a path, you are moving on the path of freedomfrom Worldly life.All this does not mean that you stop working or taking actions. You continue todo all these as if someone else is doing all these and therefore you are notaffected or attached to such action and their consequences.Maybe God has destined you to move long such a path or feel unhappy with yoursituation because of unjust and unfair manner the World operates. You may remainbeyonf all justice and fairness or you may suffer in your mind with anxiety,tension, frustration, fear, grievances, and so on. But one day all suchsufferings will reduce or go away altoghther irrespective of what you do and donot do.Basudeb Sen

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Dear Vasundharaji

Sure if we look at things in terms of short term perspective,it seems that good people are struggling and evil mongers are propspering-but what we are seeing is only of this life-if we think about karma,then we know that people are enjoying or suffering their past karma alone.

also, god gives people what they need-people who are greedy etc need to get saturated in that feelign before they become disgusted and give up.for people who are good,he makes them work out their past karmas and rewards them with moksha.

this reminds me of a story of krishna and arjuna.

once krishna and arjuna,disguised as beggars went a begging-they stopped at a rich man;s house and asked for alms-the rich man said-please go furthur,there is nothing here-krishna blessed him and said-may your riches grow.next,they visited a very very poor old man who lived in a hut and asked for alms-the poor man brought waht little he had and gave them joyously-krishna told him-may this hut burn away soon.

upon leaving the house arjuna asked krishna hwo he could bless the rich man with wealth and the poor man this way-krishna replied-the rich man wants more and more wealth-let him take more human births to realise me-as for the poor man-that hut alone is standign between him and me.

strange are the ways of god and if we look at it from only one perspective,it may seem like he is rewarding evil people and punishing good ones but quite the contrary!

hari smarana

ramaa Sreenivasan -

In kaliyuga, the wicked are rewarded and the good suffer. The reality is however different. We are suffering or prospering not due to our karmas in our present life but our past life karmas also. So the ways of Parmatma are mysterious but one can say this with conviction that those who do good karmas will find their paths smoothened while those who accumulate bad karmas will meet their nemesis sooner or later.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Vasundhara,

All human laws are, properly speaking, only declaratory; they have no power over the substance of original justice. Edmund Burke

I understand your frustation. Yes, it appears as a rule, that the dishonest alone succeed. But, just think for a few more minutes and answer the question whether the Supreme Being or Parama Atma has anything to do with work + Result equations of material world. If one is keen on material success of this world, he/she should adopt the techniques suitable to that goal. The methods of obtaining the superior and permanent happiness are different from the methods applicable for gaining materially. When one aims for the superior things, he/she is bound to suffer materialistically. Please refer to 12.5 of Bhagavad Gita (BG). More elaborately, one who aims for the ultimate finds little use of mundane benefits and hence tends to ignore earning them.

The so called Veda is divided into two parts. The first part is devoted to methods (instruments) of optimally exploiting the Prakriti. It is purely materialistic. Even the Svarga it promises is of temporary duration. Kindly refer to 9.20 and 21, BG. It, this part of Veda called Poorva Meemaamsa, has been declared unfit to take any one to permanent Bliss, cf. Kathopanishad, Slokas 11.48, 52-55 of BG. On the other hand, the second part of Veda, the Vedanta (Upanishat) does not take one to Parama Atma but helps you to understand the properties and Gunas of Parama Atma and gives you some possible methods of realizing IT and enjoying the realization. This enjoyment is permanent.

If one aims for pleasure and happiness, he should adopt that path (symbolically described as Krishna Gati or dark path), else Sukla Gat the bright path (cf. ch.8 of BG). In the Maha Bharata war which was just a pretext to elucidate these truths, observe carefully what Krishna has done to win the war. If you can read sanskrit original or the Telugu translation (the part by Tikkana) pay special attention to the chiding handed over by Krishna to Yudhishtara (Dharma Raja, in Telugu) In Salya Parva, when Dharmaja wanted to show off his magnanimity by offering Duryodhana the choice of weapon and opponent too. Unfortunately this part is often ignored by the readers. Maha BHarata and Ramayana are read like stories but not as Dharma Saastra. Pity.

One gentleman about sixty years back wanted to be recognized as Messiah of peace and we the Indians have been suffering due to his Keerti Kandooti for these sixty years. Country is material. It should not be mixed with non material objectives.

This most prevalent misconception and worse frustration. I apologize if I did wrong

Krishna

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sadhaks, the postings are once again becoming very long... many are unsubscribing due to lengthy postings. Please realize this ! Lengthy postings will be rejected in the future. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmRespected Swamiji ,We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the mostdishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them whilepeople who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot . They work hard , they don'texploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle. How long can a person goon with hard work honestly . if he doesn't get the returns which he deserves ,isn't it natural for him to get depressed and disillusioned with life , peopleand God ? What should be his stand ? From where should he derive strength andcourage to move on with life ?Vasundhara----------------------

NEW POSTING

Hari OmNoticed the caption to the Q provided by the Learned GT Moderators ? 'Why there "appears" to be No Justice !! This 'appear'ance is caused by a mind which is blocked/deluded due to desires/frustration/anger. In fact, the Law of Karma is as JUST and EQUITABLE as are rules of any good sport. This world is the Leela (sport/play) of Paramatma. Here as Vasundharaji rightly started with- As you sow so you reap. Be it greed or anger or delusion (moha) - it is an established principle that they confuse/blind a human. Just as in the fit of anger our judgement gets vitiated, similarly when you let sorrow/frustration take hold of you- there start false perceptions. If someone believes in God... then he/she should agree that God is all merciful. So are His Laws. I have heard elders (who suffered) saying ultimately: I have reaped results of my bad deeds! Many times ! A voice coming from deep inside, you can in fact feel that. Ultimately, a person has to admit that the treatment received by her/him was 'Just and Equitable' ! Why not now, and be done with it ? Why to blame Time/God/ Others ? As you sow, so you reap !!! The biggest error which a human makes is to consider the worldly circumstances/situations to be "REAL" ! If a persons 'sees' the world as sports/Leela- he/she will never be sorrowful - JUST AS when you see a tragedy movie, after watching the movie you cease to get sorrowful ! What is so big about a situation 'seen' in a dream ? After all the world is nothing more than a dream !!What else the world is except a dream ? At least we remember dreams but these situations , circumstances, relatives, happennings will not even be remembered by us , say after 100 years. Any one got some method of remembering them? Now why we should get worried/sorrowful regarding a thing, which will not be remembered by us in future?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Jai HanumanDear Vasundharaji ! When we travel in a car from one place to another , on the way there may be somewhere good environment, somewhere not so good,somewhere there may be cool and nice natural beautiful gardens, somewhere there may be hot and dirt .... But what we have got to do with good or bad ? Why we should become happy seeing good and become sad seeing bad? We dont have to stay or reside at those places ! We dont belong to those good or bad places ! Car (time) will leave those places behind ! We have to go to our destination !!We are eternal travellers on a journey to our 'real home' ! What have we got to do with this world? Have we come here to stay ? Has any one been able to stay here? If it is good, so be it ! If it is bad, so be it !! We have not to stay here! We dont belong to this place ! What difference then does it make to us if X behaved good or bad ? What perishables and momentaries can give us ? Sorrows, Dear, Sorrows - what else except sorrows ! What are we desiring? Perishables ! That which MUST leave us !! We are imperishable, Dear Sister ! What can ever destroying world give us ? Stings like a scorpion ! What else these funny relatives/things/people can give us? Why then to bother about them ? Who are they to give us certification/recognition ? They are not worth paying attention to ! Just do your duty and forget ! Damn care... about the world, worldly people, worldly things... Just damn care, I say !!Be happy ! Rejoice !! Say Fearlessly:Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi !Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala

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Jai HanumanSherji Maharaj ! You have indeed done divine service to all sadhaks by providing them an example of what is BG 18:33 and how the 'intellect' (controller of 'mind') of a Jeeva becomes when that intellect falls under the spell of maya and tamas ! You are in fact Gift of God to this Divine Forum. You have indeed perfectly provided an honest and frank view of 'worldly people' hankering after worldly pleasures; deeply bondaged by Me, Me, Mine, Mine ....!! My deep gratitude on behalf of sadhaks. You are God sent for us, to be treated with care ! Welcome !! Read the following as sadhak ! How to read like a sadhak? Consider yourself to be a Jeeva in general ! Be happy that somehow an exemplary and useful example has evolved out of you ( as Jeeva in general ) and Paramatma has made you as medium when perceiving Jagat and Jagdish, in SATSANGA ! Read the below as an example of BG 18:33- as a student of Holy Gita ! Reading message of Sherji Agarwal, reminded me, besides BG 18:33, of the following 'doha' from Saint Dadooji : Dadoo duniya baawari, fikkar kare geli ! Roti desi Raamji dopara peli !!O Dadoo ! This world has become mad ( crazy; berserk; insane) , worrying about bread ( 'morsel in the mouth ') ! (Unaware) that God will provide food for all before noon !! In Uttar Kand of Ramcharitmanas, Goswamiji has given details ( 500 years ago ) of how the worldly people will become in Kaliyuga and how they will 'perceive'/'accept'/ 'adopt' the world by their mind ,intellect and ego ! How visionary were our Sages and Saints !!How have we become? It is time to LOOK now, Dear Sadhaks !SAT SEEN AS ASAT AND ASAT SEEN AS SAT - BG 18:33 !LOOK how being clever and dishonest is understood to be a necessity to live in this world comfortably. LOOK how the very knowledge of the Truth (Sat) that this world is transitory is 'seen' as an obstacle to a person having family. LOOK how this very knowledge of SAT is 'philosophy' for them. LOOK how the very knowledge of that SAT is seen as " giving false ideas and hope" !!LOOK at 'perception' about that eternal Truth, as akin to ... 'hanging out of the train compartment'... !! ( Ha!)LOOK at the definition of 'Duty' by today's self proclaimed 'prosperous' 'worldly people'.... "Looking after 'himself' and 'his' family" ... ( Me ! Me!! Mine ! Mine!! ) even when that looking after is through dishonesty. To be clever is duty ! LOOK as to what in their "perception/intellect" the follower of the aforesaid definition of 'Duty' is:- ...better than the one who only lives with and for God...LOOK how the follower of Sat according to them is :...suffers extreme poverty or a much lower living for himself and his family ... !LOOK at their perception of fellow humans :... I think everyone is trying to do this while living! rather than completely relying on God to put each morsel in one's mouth....Indeed the world 'appears' to us as we are !! Religion is a 'philosophy' for today's practical and prosperous human beings. The teachings of Saints and Sages are 'perceived' to be 'hypocritical' and those following them are 'seen' to be living in 'other world' ! LOOK how they talk about their own and other countries !! LOOK at the yardsticks of the judgement- material prosperity ! LOOK how they perceive their own fellow countrymen ! LOOK at the importance and adjectives given to transitory things- honest and better :-.... That's how America, Europe and other prosperous countries in the world are attracting everyone, including all the Swamis, etc. who flock here, for what, for Moksha to the ones who fled India for having an honest and better TRANSITORY life here ;....LOOK at the perception regarding their own motherland as compared to the country in which they reside ! LOOK how they feel - for doing bhakti India only is eligible ! It cannot be done in 'prosperous countries' like America, Europe etc !! :-... or the Swamis want to bring them back to India for doing bhakti.... ADVICES : Of course, Sat is impractical and unrealistic for them. LOOK at their advice to Sadhaks, Saints and Sages :- ...Please be somewhat practical and realistic in your sermons rather than giving false ideas and hope!.... LOOK at advice to those considering to turn towards God:...in which case he should not get married etc. but must remain a brahmachari and do bhagwad bhajan until he or she gets his moksha or death !....LOOK at advice to Householders in general- make money , Jee, make money :... But once one gets married or has responsibility for brothers, sisters, parents etc. one must make money to be able to discharge one's duties to his/her dependents.....Isnt the above a perfect example of BG 18:33 ? Dear Sadhaks ! This message of Sherji Agarwal is Divine from every angel. Believe me on this , Dear Sadhaks ! Let us give him a big hand ! He is definitely considering seriously about 'God' . LOOK at the below message by him :...Of course one should never forget God and must pray to him all the time while discharging one's duties in this world while here....At last, here you are right, Sherji !! This is SAT ! This is SATSANGA !! LOOK how SAT always exists (BG 2:16) !!

Sher Agarwalji :-JAI RAM JIKI, JAI SHRI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.Jai Ho !! Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala-Dear Friends,It is all ok to talk about perennial joy and passing pleasure, but one cannotcontemplate , meditate or become spiritual on an empty stomach. Therefore, onehas to take care of the needs to the body to calm the breath, and in turncontrol the emotional element, the intellectual element and reach the spiritualconsciousness. So there is certainly a point in Vasundhara's query which is notcompletely answered by the other sadhaks.Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Please read Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto Chapter 23. I can send your scanned PDF copy of this chapter from Gita Press book translated by Hanuman Prasad Poddar if you don't have it. All your doubts will be cleared. Krishna says, "Anyone who listens to or recites to others this song of the avadhuta, which presents scientific knowledge of the Absolute, and who thus meditates upon it with full attention, will never again be overwhelmed by the dualities of material happiness and distress."Here is English translation. I will advice reading Hindi version. This translation has errors but something is better than nothing.SB 11.23.1: Åšukadeva GosvÄmÄ« said: Lord Mukunda, the chief of the DÄÅ›Ärhas, having thus been respectfully requested by the best of His devotees, ÅšrÄ« Uddhava, first acknowledged the fitness of his servant's statements. Then the Lord, whose glorious exploits are most worthy of being heard, began to reply to him.SB 11.23.2: Lord ÅšrÄ« KrÌ£sÌ£nÌ£a said: O disciple of BrÌ£haspati, there is virtually no saintly man in this world capable of resettling his own mind after it has been disturbed by the insulting words of uncivilized men.SB 11.23.3: Sharp arrows which pierce one's chest and reach the heart do not cause as much suffering as the arrows of harsh, insulting words that become lodged within the heart when spoken by uncivilized men.SB 11.23.4: My dear Uddhava, in this regard a most pious story is told, and I shall now describe it to you. Please listen with careful attention.SB 11.23.5: Once a certain sannyÄsÄ« was insulted in many ways by impious men. However, with determination he remembered that he was suffering the fruit of his own previous karma. I will narrate to you his story and that which he spoke.SB 11.23.6: In the country of AvantÄ« there once lived a certain brÄhmanÌ£a who was very rich and gifted with all opulences, and who was engaged in the occupation of commerce. But he was a miserly person — lusty, greedy and very prone to anger.SB 11.23.7: In his home, devoid of religiosity and lawful sense gratification, the family members and guests were never properly respected, even with words. He would not even allow sufficient gratification for his own body at the suitable times.SB 11.23.8: Since he was so hardhearted and miserly, his sons, in-laws, wife, daughters and servants began to feel inimical toward him. Becoming disgusted, they would never treat him with affection.SB 11.23.9: In this way the presiding deities of the five family sacrifices became angry at the brÌ£ÄhmanÌ£a, who, being niggardly, guarded his wealth like a YaksÌ£a, who had no good destination either in this world or the next, and who was totally deprived of religiosity and sense enjoyment.SB 11.23.10: O magnanimous Uddhava, by his neglect of these demigods he depleted his stock of piety and all his wealth. The accumulation of his repeated exhaustive endeavors was totally lost.SB 11.23.11: Some of the wealth of this so-called brÄhmanÌ£a was taken away by his relatives, My dear Uddhava, some by thieves, some by the whims of providence, some by the effects of time, some by ordinary men and some by government authorities.SB 11.23.12: Finally, when his property was completely lost, he who never engaged in religiosity or sense enjoyment became ignored by his family members. Thus he began to feel unbearable anxiety.SB 11.23.13: Having lost all his wealth, he felt great pain and lamentation. His throat choked up with tears, and he meditated for a long time on his fortune. Then a powerful feeling of renunciation came over him.SB 11.23.14: The brÄhmanÌ£a spoke as follows: O what great misfortune! I have simply tormented myself uselessly, struggling so hard for money that was not even intended for religiosity or material enjoyment.SB 11.23.15: Generally, the wealth of misers never allows them any happiness. In this life it causes their self-torment, and when they die it sends them to hell.SB 11.23.16: Whatever pure fame is possessed by the famous and whatever praiseworthy qualities are found in the virtuous are destroyed by even a small amount of greed, just as one's attractive physical beauty is ruined by a trace of white leprosy.SB 11.23.17: In the earning, attainment, increase, protection, expense, loss and enjoyment of wealth, all men experience great labor, fear, anxiety and delusion.SB 11.23.18-19: Theft, violence, speaking lies, duplicity, lust, anger, perplexity, pride, quarreling, enmity, faithlessness, envy and the dangers caused by women, gambling and intoxication are the fifteen undesirable qualities that contaminate men because of greed for wealth. Although these qualities are undesirable, men falsely ascribe value to them. One desiring to achieve the real benefit of life should therefore remain aloof from undesirable material wealth.SB 11.23.20: Even a man's brothers, wife, parents and friends united with him in love will immediately break off their affectionate relationships and become enemies over a single coin.SB 11.23.21: For even a small amount of money these relatives and friends become very agitated and their anger is inflamed. Acting as rivals, they quickly give up all sentiments of goodwill and will reject one at a moment's notice, even to the point of committing murder.SB 11.23.22: Those who obtain human life, which is prayed for even by the demigods, and in that human birth become situated as first-class brÄhmanÌ£as, are extremely fortunate. If they disregard this important opportunity, they are certainly killing their own self-interest and thus achieve a most unfortunate end.SB 11.23.23: What mortal man, having achieved this human life, which is the very gateway to both heaven and liberation, would willingly become attached to that abode of worthlessness, material property?SB 11.23.24: One who fails to distribute his wealth to the proper shareholders — the demigods, sages, forefathers and ordinary living entities, as well as his immediate relatives, in-laws and own self — is maintaining his wealth simply like a YaksÌ£a and will fall down.SB 11.23.25: Discriminating persons are able to utilize their money, youth and strength to achieve perfection. But I have feverishly squandered these in the useless endeavor for further wealth. Now that I am an old man, what can I achieve?SB 11.23.26: Why must an intelligent man suffer by his constant vain efforts to get wealth? Indeed, this whole world is most bewildered by someone's illusory potency.SB 11.23.27: For one who is in the grips of death, what is the use of wealth or those who offer it, sense gratification or those who offer it, or, for that matter, any type of fruitive activity, which simply causes one to again take birth in the material world?SB 11.23.28: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Hari, who contains within Himself all the demigods, must be satisfied with me. Indeed, He has brought me to this suffering condition and forced me to experience detachment, which is the boat to carry me over this ocean of material life.SB 11.23.29: If there is any time remaining in my life, I will perform austerities and force my body to subsist on the bare necessities. Without further confusion I shall pursue that which constitutes my entire self-interest in life, and I shall remain satisfied within the self.SB 11.23.30: Thus may the presiding demigods of these three worlds kindly show their mercy upon me. Indeed, MahÄrÄja KhatÌ£vÄÅ„ga was able to achieve the spiritual world in a single moment.SB 11.23.31: Lord ÅšrÄ« KrÌ£sÌ£nÌ£a continued: His mind thus determined, that most excellent AvantÄ« brÄhmanÌ£a was able to untie the knots of desire within his heart. He then assumed the role of a peaceful and silent sannyÄsÄ« mendicant.SB 11.23.32: He wandered about the earth, keeping his intelligence, senses and life air under control. To beg charity he traveled alone to various cities and villages. He did not advertise his advanced spiritual position and thus was not recognized by others.SB 11.23.33: O kind Uddhava, seeing him as an old, dirty beggar, rowdy persons would dishonor him with many insults.SB 11.23.34: Some of these persons would take away his sannyÄsÄ« rod, and some the waterpot which he was using as a begging bowl. Some took his deerskin seat, some his chanting beads, and some would steal his torn, ragged clothing. Displaying these things before him, they would pretend to offer them back but would then hide them again.SB 11.23.35: When he was sitting on the bank of a river about to partake of the food that he had collected by his begging, such sinful rascals would come and pass urine on it, and they would dare to spit on his head.SB 11.23.36: Although he had taken a vow of silence, they would try to make him speak, and if he did not speak they would beat him with sticks. Others would chastise him, saying, "This man is just a thief." And others would bind him up with rope, shouting, "Tie him up! Tie him up!"SB 11.23.37: They would criticize and insult him, saying, "This man is just a hypocrite and a cheat. He makes a business of religion simply because he lost all his wealth and his family threw him out."SB 11.23.38-39: Some would ridicule him by saying, "Just see this greatly powerful sage! He is as steadfast as the Himalaya Mountains. By practice of silence he strives for his goal with great determination, just like a duck." Other persons would pass foul air upon him, and sometimes others would bind this twice-born brÄhmanÌ£a in chains and keep him captive like a pet animal.SB 11.23.40: The brÄhmanÌ£a understood that all his suffering — from other living beings, from the higher forces of nature and from his own body — was unavoidable, being allotted to him by providence.SB 11.23.41: Even while being insulted by these low-class men who were trying to effect his downfall, he remained steady in his spiritual duties. Fixing his resolution in the mode of goodness, he began to chant the following song.SB 11.23.42: The brÄhmanÌ£a said: These people are not the cause of my happiness and distress. Neither are the demigods, my own body, the planets, my past work, or time. Rather, it is the mind alone that causes happiness and distress and perpetuates the rotation of material life.SB 11.23.43: The powerful mind actuates the functions of the material modes, from which evolve the different kinds of material activities in the modes of goodness, ignorance and passion. From the activities in each of these modes develop the corresponding statuses of life.SB 11.23.44: Although present along with the struggling mind within the material body, the Supersoul is not endeavoring, because He is already endowed with transcendental enlightenment. Acting as my friend, He simply witnesses from His transcendental position. I, the infinitesimal spirit soul, on the other hand, have embraced this mind, which is the mirror reflecting the image of the material world. Thus I have become engaged in enjoying objects of desire and am entangled due to contact with the modes of nature.SB 11.23.45: Charity, prescribed duties, observance of major and minor regulative principles, hearing from scripture, pious works and purifying vows all have as their final aim the subduing of the mind. Indeed, concentration of the mind on the Supreme is the highest yoga.SB 11.23.46: If one's mind is perfectly fixed and pacified, then tell me what need does one have to perform ritualistic charity and other pious rituals? And if one's mind remains uncontrolled, lost in ignorance, then of what use are these engagements for him?SB 11.23.47: All the senses have been under the control of the mind since time immemorial, and the mind himself never comes under the sway of any other. He is stronger than the strongest, and his godlike power is fearsome. Therefore, anyone who can bring the mind under control becomes the master of all the senses.SB 11.23.48: Failing to conquer this irrepressible enemy, the mind, whose urges are intolerable and who torments the heart, many people are completely bewildered and create useless quarrel with others. Thus they conclude that other people are either their friends, their enemies or parties indifferent to them.SB 11.23.49: Persons who identify with this body, which is simply the product of the material mind, are blinded in their intelligence, thinking in terms of "I" and "mine." Because of their illusion of "this is I, but that is someone else," they wander in endless darkness.SB 11.23.50: If you say that these people are the cause of my happiness and distress, then where is the place of the soul in such a conception? This happiness and distress pertain not to the soul but to the interactions of material bodies. If someone bites his tongue with his own teeth, at whom can he become angry in his suffering?SB 11.23.51: If you say that the demigods who rule the bodily senses cause suffering, still, how can such suffering apply to the spirit soul? This acting and being acted upon are merely interactions of the changeable senses and their presiding deities. When one limb of the body attacks another, with whom can the person in that body be angry?SB 11.23.52: If the soul himself were the cause of happiness and distress, then we could not blame others, since happiness and distress would be simply the nature of the soul. According to this theory, nothing except the soul actually exists, and if we were to perceive something besides the soul, that would be illusion. Therefore, since happiness and distress do not actually exist in this concept, why become angry at oneself or others?SB 11.23.53: And if we examine the hypothesis that the planets are the immediate cause of suffering and happiness, then also where is the relationship with the soul, who is eternal? After all, the effect of the planets applies only to things that have taken birth. Expert astrologers have moreover explained how the planets are only causing pain to each other. Therefore, since the living entity is distinct from these planets and from the material body, against whom should he vent his anger?SB 11.23.54: If we assume that fruitive work is the cause of happiness and distress, we still are not dealing with the soul. The idea of material work arises when there is a spiritual actor who is conscious and a material body that undergoes the transformation of happiness and distress as a reaction to such work. Since the body has no life, it cannot be the actual recipient of happiness and distress, nor can the soul, who is ultimately completely spiritual and aloof from the material body. Since karma thus has no ultimate basis in either the body or the soul, at whom can one become angry?SB 11.23.55: If we accept time as the cause of happiness and distress, that experience still cannot apply to the spirit soul, since time is a manifestation of the Lord's spiritual potency and the living entities are also expansions of the Lord's spiritual potency manifesting through time. Certainly a fire does not burn its own flames or sparks, nor does the cold harm its own snowflakes or hail. In fact, the spirit soul is transcendental and beyond the experience of material happiness and distress. At whom, therefore, should one become angry?SB 11.23.56: The false ego gives shape to illusory material existence and thus experiences material happiness and distress. The spirit soul, however, is transcendental to material nature; he can never actually be affected by material happiness and distress in any place, under any circumstance or by the agency of any person. A person who understands this has nothing whatsoever to fear from the material creation.SB 11.23.57: I shall cross over the insurmountable ocean of nescience by being firmly fixed in the service of the lotus feet of KrÌ£sÌ£nÌ£a. This was approved by the previous ÄcÄryas, who were fixed in firm devotion to the Lord, ParamÄtmÄ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.SB 11.23.58: Lord ÅšrÄ« KrÌ£sÌ£nÌ£a said: Thus becoming detached upon the loss of his property, this sage gave up his moroseness. He left home, taking sannyÄsa, and began to travel about the earth. Even when insulted by foolish rascals he remained unswerved from his duty and chanted this song.SB 11.23.59: No other force besides his own mental confusion makes the soul experience happiness and distress. His perception of friends, neutral parties and enemies and the whole material life he builds around this perception are simply created out of ignorance.SB 11.23.60: My dear Uddhava, fixing your intelligence on Me, you should thus completely control the mind. This is the essence of the science of yoga.SB 11.23.61: Anyone who listens to or recites to others this song of the sannyÄsÄ«, which presents scientific knowledge of the Absolute, and who thus meditates upon it with full attention, will never again be overwhelmed by the dualities of material happiness and distress.

Gaurav Mittal

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RAM RAM

 

dear sadhaks,

 

It is written in Bhavishya , devi, and every purana, that in kaliyuga persons with tamsic tattva will rise politically, economiclally and dominate good ones.

 

As far good ones can prevent been slave to them is to retain their traditions sattvic (purity)tattva, as punyas (virtues) to rise is required by sattvic ones more in quantity. So we see brahmins, or khstriyas falling in life because many have copied english styles of lifestyle drinking, eating meat especially beef, womanising., not doing gayatri, upavasas (fasting - anivarya upvasas like(Ramnavami, Mahashivratri, Janamastami, nirjala ekadashi)), not bathing in holy rivers, not doing daily pranayama, not doing shraddhas, tarpana daily for ancestors, not doing bhoot shudhi by giving feeding cow, dog, crows daily. and in general not sticking to truth, good character, cheating in money matters, not being pure in soul and mind . so when their is rise of tamasic bodied people the sattvic genetic people like brahmins not doing their by nature vidhis, sanskars, tradtiions, will fall more than necesaary.

 

think over.

 

You are falling but dont cut the shoot on which you are sitting of your tree. Yes in Kaliyuga damage is their to good ones but dont help to fuse the fire or better not engulf fire.

 

This is my research on thousands of people of every caste, stature, religion and many nationalities, after studying their pyschology, sociology, spirituality, and more concentrated research was done on loss of sanskaras by dwijas and colateral fall in life.

 

copy your forefathers and see pain of not deserving what you want will be less. and ofcourse the figthing spirit against evil and tamas, unjustice will be more in mind heart and fate.

 

regards

 

Kalrav Pande

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Dear Vasundharaji,

I find your questions very interesting. Why does the dishonest man prosper

and the honest man sometimes remain poor ? A difficult and potentially distressing question!

Of course history and economics are involved here too, not just spirituality.

 

I, too, have noticed the concept of giving rather than thinking of getting

at work in the world, as already mentioned by a few others here. It is illustrated by two

house maids I have seen work for me.

 

One woman, always bitter about her past and present difficulties, was always concerned about

what she was earning and how much she could work. She was honest and

hard working, too. But she went rushing about her work, haphazard and careless,

trying to work in as many houses as possible in as little time as possible.

The potatoes were never cooked through properly. I felt some resentment

towards her attitude. She has faced great difficulties for years. I have still

helped her on occasion even after she was asked to quit working for us.

She is now unemployed and unhappy. She seems to have low self esteem.

 

A second woman, though she has told me of a childhood of dire poverty, has worked

carefully in my house and has developed a reputation for careful work in our housing colony.

She offers to to go out of her way and do more work than what she has been

hired to do, just to help me out. She is generous with her time. Apparently

she is like this with everyone she works for. Then when she asks for extra money to

help her with her family problems, people gladly give it to her. We are all happy with

her work and she is a joy to have around. She is employed by many households and

seems happy and to have high self esteem.

 

Apart from observing the virtues of the second woman compared to the first, I am aware

that the second one has a happy married life, while the first one was abandoned by a man.

I don't know whether the attitude of the first one prevailed in the past and drove the man away

or if his abandonment simply drove her to her anxious state of mind. But the difference in the

behaviour of each is still illustrative of how an attitude of selfless giving can bring rewards.

I have found this too in my work.

 

I think one can have faith in God to provide for one's needs, provided one gives one's best in one's work

and one's relationships with others. A spiritual man, Jesus, once said, "It is better to give than to receive".

I think this is truly a helpful concept in life.

 

Cecily Ray

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PRIOR POSTING

We have the power to stop all suffering. We have the power to live in bliss....

 

Understanding is the key.....

Understand clearly how things happen......Understand the wisdom/rules of life,

 

smallest difficulty may appear to be very big.....

a small achievement can give you tremendous happiness....

It all depends on where your attention is.....

If you attention is on others, on difficulties.....you will miss out the happiness part....

 

Wisdom is to stop comparing with others.....understand and live your life...focus and put your attention to

all you have......anything positive that happens in your life....in due course of time....you will see your

happiness increasing and your difficulties will not be difficulties but will be opportunities for learning and becoming better.......But all this needs some courage, patience and faith/trust......

Results are guaranteed...try it....

 

Sushil Jain

 

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in the domain of Truth, never ever is there any injustice , all is beautiful and just ......

 

and, Existence bestows on one, who knows the self .....

 

bestows the wisdom and strength to ' feel' and 'know' that........

 

all that happened was 'shubha' (auspicicious ).. all that is happening is shubha ..... all that shall ever happen cannot be other than 'shubha'

 

 

in the realm of the False, in the land of dreams,

 

all is False, all is ashubha, all is pain, fear and delusion

 

every joy is but a short respite sandwiched within two pains ..............ah !

 

injustice everywhere, abuse and despair, beat their drum everywhere .....

 

shrieking in the movement of Time and Space ............... !!!

 

 

 

yet the Truth is Bliss , ananda it is .............. immutably just .............

 

 

 

but the wakeful state and the dream state, necessarily are opposite in scope

 

in scope and understanding ............

 

the False is painful in its law of depletion , ................. and Truth ...........

 

Truth is NOT subject to the Law of depletion ............

 

 

the false, when shared with the other,

 

gets depleted, and the depletion brings with it, a sense of loss and pain,

 

giving birth to possessiveness, greed and attachment ...........................

 

 

the TRUE, when shared , grows more, spreads its blossoms ..............

 

Love, Light or Knowledge true , when shared, grows and grows, ever grows

 

giving birth to deathless joy ever revelling in renunciation , ever fulfilled in the self..........

 

 

when this is seen and understood, the sense of injustice vanishes .............

 

the joy of God's Immutable law, multiplies

 

all is realised as nought but justice divine ..............

 

 

 

ah, friends, it is all one's choosing .................

 

choose the False and writhe in the pain of injustice.....

 

choose the True, and rejoice in the feel of the Justice divine in your Life and living .....

 

the world is perfect as it is ............. at every point of time ,

 

it is narinder, who is unsettled ..........................................

 

it is just that, aligned with the false , ' Injustice ', he cries .................!!

 

 

 

this then, brings nari to the point ................

 

become aware of the false as the false ............. and this touchstone in your life and living apply

 

 

what gets depleted on use, know it as false .......... care not for it, renounce and shed from your life ....

 

what grows when shared ............. know it as True , clutch it to your bosom, hold it tight ..............

 

AUM

 

narinder bhandari

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-Shree Hari-Namaste,Dear Lynn,When you learn more you will fully understand, we are all Children of theUniverse.The Supreme Lord has described the Gunas, the engines in nature that make uswhat we are, these Gunas have to be risen above.I have lived in a number of countries, when one looks past the the surface, youwill find villains and saints. If you knew the sort of work for humanity thatSadhaks perform, like me you would be humbled.I will stand corrected, but I believe Swamiji made a statement along the lines,that if you hide your sins they will increase, and if you hide your virtues theyalso will increase!A person who has led a pure and blameless life, can suffer terribly,Sweet Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, died of throat cancer, when still quiteyoung.I once asked a question about Karma to a High Lama, I have never seen so muchcompassion and love in anybodies eyes as his, he softly said, "Karma is a verydifficult subject".This thread has a fair distance to run, maybe you and I can be like littlechildren, and learn from the wise!Om ... Shanti...Mike. (K)--

 

Hari OmAnswers to balance queries of Vasundharaji !Q How long can a person goon with hard work honestly . if he doesn't get the returns which he deserves ,isn't it natural for him to get depressed and disillusioned with life , people and God ?Ans: The person under Q will have to suffer and keep suffering so long as he/she does not renounce 'desire for fruits' ("returns" as referred by you). No ! It is not 'natural' for a person to do karmas with result in focus.Nothing suggests to him/her that in this world. Does people around him, incidences, happennings around him ever suggest that in this world every body gets results as per expectations/desires? No ! Not at all !!Not getting 'results' of karmas as per expectations should not make a person'depressed or disillussioned' with either life or people or God ! He/she should merely stop 'expectations for fruits' , and with that all sorrows/depressions/disillussionments vanish ! Where is the wisdom in complaining that fire is hot ? Where is wisdom in presuming that in 'Dukhalayam' there may be 'sukh' ? In the human life, the 'doing' only is under your control, never 'happening' ! It is an established principle. Why we should break our heads in trying to control that which is uncontrollable? Is there any wisdom in that? Q What should be his stand ? Ans: My eye hence forth shall be set on my 'duty' only and not on 'results' of karma. I am doing my duty. If result is good, wonderful. If result is bad, excellent. He should be 'careful in doing' and 'happy in happenning' !!Q From where should he derive strength andcourage to move on with life ?Ans: From doing his duties as prescribed by Scriptures without expecting anything in return. Real power comes in a human, the moment he renounces 'desire' ! That power is so quick, astonishing and direct that one instead 'moving on' with life.... gallops !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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Respected Swamiji,

 

Ram Ram.

 

While we are in this transitory world, we do need things which will make our life, and that of our dependents, at least bearable. By saying that all wealth, happiness, relatives etc. are transitory, does not make one's life any the easier, if the dishonest person or a worldly clever person is able to look after himself and his family, better than the one who only lives with and for God and suffers extreme poverty or a much lower living for himself and his family. The philosophy professed by our Saints etc. all the time would look quite hypocritical and in effect the religious person is living a 'other worldly' life; in which case he should not get married etc. but must remain a brahmachari and do bhagwad bhajan until he or she gets his moksha or death!

But once one gets married or has responsibility for brothers, sisters, parents etc. one must make money to be able to discharge one's duties to his/her dependents. Of course one should never forget God and must pray to him all the time while discharging one's duties in this world while here.

 

I would appreciate comments of Swamiji and other bhaktas! Life is a journey and while we are on this journey for example trvelling in a train, should we be hanging outside the compartment or have a seat to sit down for ourselves and our dependents making the journey if not enjoyable but at least bearably comfortable. I think everyone is trying to do this while living! rather than completely relying on God to put each morsel in one's mouth.

 

So, swamiji kindly profess a more practicable philosophy rather than degrading the world necessities as transitory only but which in fact are also necessary while one lives!

 

That's how America, Europe and other prosperous countries in the world are attracting everyone, including all the Swamis, etc. who flock here, for what, for Moksha to the ones who fled India for having an honest and better TRANSITORY life here; or the Swamis want to bring them back to India for doing bhakti. Please be somewhat practical and realistic in your sermons rather than giving false ideas and hopes!

 

JAI RAM JIKI, JAI SHRI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.

 

BHAVDIY,

 

SHER AGRAWAL

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

The greatest injustice is done by our own self. Reliance on and and depending on the transient for our happiness. Laxmiji is "chanchal" and does not stay for long anywhere, yet we look at those who have wealth "Laxmi" with envy, respect, awe and adoration. We are giving importance to the transient things that are bound to leave us. We always expect from the world... because we think "WE ARE DESERVING". We get DEPRESSED AND DISILLUSIONED... because the world is not dancing to our tune and doing justice to us and living up to our expectations. Are we really deserving? Let us all take a sincere and serious inventory of our own selves, and surely we will find out that we are not only not deserving, but God has been showering His mercy and compassionate all along, only out of unconditional love. Please remember these words by Swamiji and once and for all GIVE UP EXPECTING FROM THE WORLD / FROM OTHERS.....You will see the magic there after.....

"Sansaar saathi sab swaarth ke hai, pakke virodhi parmarth ke haiDegaa ne koyi dukh mein sahaara, sun tu kisi ki mat baat pyaara.""The world and the people in it are selfish, they are extremely opposed to spiritualityNo one will support you in your sufferings, therefore don't listen to anyone."

Simply become God's.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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I am learning a lot here.We often don't get what we deserve in life.Neverthelessif we choose to live honorably we do so because it is our way.We don't give toget back or do so others can return the favor.We give because it is within ourhearts and do because we want to.I am so impressed when I see New Yorkersvolunteer.They are doing this because they care.I think that is the mainfocus.We must do because we care not because we expect it back.This is myAmerican attitude but it is the way I live.I have volunteered and will continueto volunteer in soup kitchens and senior homes.That is my way.Lynn----------------------

Madam, Suffering and prosperity are dual and opposite.If you want wealth there are many rituals to perform.Let us pray god to give that much of wealth sufficient for our family.Wealth is worldly .Do you want wealth or god.Decide your self. our elders use to tell about the hell and the sufferings we undergo after our death. But I saw many people suffer on this earth for their evil deeds before their death.90% of hell treatment is completed here only.Did not you notice old people asking god to take them away because their suffering here is more rigorous than in hell.Lastly have faith in god He is the Kartha and the bhoktha.Badri Narayana Miriyala

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In my feeling all the souls existing in body do not have equal status. Those who have attained advance position due to their previous scores get back the returns in their same birth (whether good or bad) while rest have to wait for several cycles. This creates the apparent anomaly.

Regards to all.

Barin Chatterjee

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PRIOR POSTING

Daughter Vasundhara, Hard work and working honestly is an extra ordinary realization. He who only cooks for himself, for his self consumption is said to incur sin, and is given punishment like a thief. (Gita 3/12 and 3/13). It is better to undergo difficulties and sorrow where there is rememberance of God, than to acquire happiness and worldly things and live downfall from humanity. So be it. Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Ones Namaste!Vasundharaji has asked the question that all of us at one time or other in our lives may have asked or wondered or kept it to ourselves!When you take the shelter of Bhagwat Gita, not merely out of curiosity, but to find out the Truth about living in this world, and meaning of God, all such questions get answered, it is the fact.Take just one verse, for example, BG 2:47 Karmanyevadhikar........It means all you can do is to perform actions, results of which is not in your control. This means accept or rather welcome outcomes, take responsibility, learn from them and do the best again and again. When one deeply understands, contemplates on it, at its highest level , one would take actions in themselves as their own fruits/results too, this way you cannot be disappointed being non-dependent on such results. Be always guided by Dharma and perform those actions which bring greater good including society, family and oneself! Please feel this truth of Gita passionately.Just suppose that one can do as mentioned, is he/she going to worry about justice for him/her personally? One may fight for justice for all, like Arjuna or more recently Mahatma Gandhi did, wouldn't it be so? After all is said and done, what good is the money, fame, power etc that some people apparently seem to get away with but are so much unhappy? Gita will convince one firmly that it is the utter Simplicity, Unconditional Love, Joy, Peace, Harmony, Compassion, and appreciation of Beauty, that really matter, and these are inner attitudes, qualities, and understanding that depend on no external objects. I mean it!Wouldn't it be nice to be non-dependent on "things" and yet be happy, free of conflict and be Grateful for everything one has or doesn't have?I do realize that some may say "oh, its easy to say that than to face problems of life without these things of the world". But then it is not meant for such people who say this and suffer by thinking "oh these dishonest people get away with everything and are enjoying, whereas people like me are honestly working hard and not getting anywhere". Such thinking in itself is distraction, and robs one of meaningful actions that bring joy, such as study of scriptures, satsangs, association with Mahatmas!When one sees the Life as Glory of Ishwara, one ceases to complain, plays the assigned role, and apparently goes Home when the Play is over!Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadaks,What Sri Vasundaraji said is very correct: But a small correction- What we SOWED only we are reaping. No doubt. The person who is bad in society but blessed with riches without any strain, is considered that he is heading for dooms day to hell. A person gains more wealth when he does wrong things, because then only he will do more and more sins, due to raise in Ego, fame Etc. Actually everything on earth appears ULTA (Upside down) for normal person. The man struggles is heading for heavens, as his past sins are getting washed away by his sufferings and he gets to heaven very quickly in same birth or atleast in next birth for sure. Where as the man doing all wrong things, gains wealth provided by Dur Devathas, so that his sins are stored in multi folds. But this same bad one gets next birth in very distressed way of life, suffering, begging, disease prone, and remains in slum with poorest facility. This is said in Vivekachudamani. Other way also see: God gets pleased when the one behaves well, honest Etc inspite of poverty and naturally take him to HIS abode putting end to all sufferings once in for all. Now the bad one goes in front of God, Do you think HE will bless him? This earth is Karma boomi- all karmas and Vasanas has to be dissolved to reach the highest state.B.Sathyanarayan

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Hari OmA superb Q indeed by Vasundharaji ! On something which is part of direct experience and something which is invariably perceived by almost every human being sometime or other during the human life with reference to oneself as well as others.I will answer in detail as the Q has many significant questions hidden in it ! Sadhaks may freely ask Qs ! It is a very significant spiritual query by Vasundharaji.But Vasundharaji - What prevents a person in becoming happy right now? Right now !! Anyway let us address your Qs one by one. Sentence by sentence !Q We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the most dishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them while people who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot .(Next posting will cover Laxmi aspect of Q) Ans: At the outset let me state that what is uncontrollable viz. Law of Karma referred by you is not responsible for making a man happy or sorrowful. ( favourable or adverse circumstances only are produced by fate/destiny/ Law of Karma). Your (controllable) wisdom or stupidity is responsible for the same. No result, of whatsoever size/nature or duration , meted out by operation of Law of Karma is capable enough to make you happy or sorrowful- it is a Law !! By the way, people are "seen" only to be happy/sad or they "actually" are happy/sad? Any way ! The good people seen by you to be suffering are not suffering due to their present conduct and deeds but are suffering due to their past karmas and deeds. Their present good deeds will give them results in future. Similarly apparently evil doingpeople are enjoying due to good deeds done in the past. Their present bad deeds will give them results in future. Every karma gives some immediate results and some future results. Every karma leaves imprints on "svabhav" (habit)- on your antahkarana/chitta. "Svabhav" is important propellor of new karmas. Further whatever is "seen" by you is mostly with reference to availability/ non availability of material things . But actually, one may not be happy even after having all material possessions and one may not be sorrowful in total absence of material possessions also. Happiness/Sorrow are not linked with material possessions . They are linked with presence or absence of peace inside you. Where is happiness without peace? In favourable circumstances, a man is proud of himself; he hates those who are inferior to him and is envious of other person's better fortune. All these sentiments, like pride, greed, desires, envy, fear, sense of insecurity, disturb his mental peace. His desires for more and more never allow him to be at peace. On the top of it there is constant fear of losing pleasures and there is constant anxiety of maintaining them. 'Conscience' keeps biting him, if he is not conducting well at present. Thus, externally, he seems happy but actually he is not. His present bad conduct is planting seeds of future sorrows in his antahkarana continuously. No bad conduct can ever go without bad results.Similarly a poor but good man may externally seem to be suffering but actually his life may be serene and happy, because he has lesser desires and satisfaction with lesser possessions. Peace lies in contentment (satisfaction). Who enjoys food better? A rich man or poor ? A labourer has a sound sleep, even under a tree but a rich man may not get good sleep inspite of sleeping on a luxury bed. A multi millionaire may be prohibited by doctor to eat sugar or salt even. Hence possessions and affluence do not make a man happy and their absence does not make him sad. Real happiness consists in serenity and happiness of heart, real sorrow lies in burning sensation in the heart and absence of peace. The most "lakhpatis" ( owners of millions) and "crorepatis". (Owners of billions ) are not "patis" (owners/masters) at all. They are "lakhdass" / "croredass" (slaves of millions/billions) ! They are not masters, they are slaves. How can a slave be ever happy?And Happiness / Sorrow is controllable and is not output of Law of Karma. You can become happy instantly irrespective of given circumstances/ situations !!What prevents in becoming happy right now?Q They work hard , they don't exploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle.Ans : In the Vana Section of Mahabharat there is an anecdote. One day Draupadi asked Yuddishthara... "You are suffering in exile following righteousness (dharma) , while Duryodhana is leading a luxurious life by enjoying kingdom inspite of his unrighteousness and selfishness. Why?" Yuddishtara replied.... "Those who follow the path of righteousness in order to get pleasures , actually dont know righteousness in the true sense ofthe term. They are just like animals who hanker after pleasures without knowing righteousness. Humanity consists in following righteousness without caring for good/bad circumstances !!Balance Qs later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------

What Vasundhara says is absolutely true. This is the complaint of most honestpeople. But this is the wy the World is. That is what Gautama Buddha realisedand took Sannyas. Then he through meditation realised the Truth of how to getover this basic problem of life.Much earlier the Indian philosophers and saints found the approach that is mostsuitable to deal with this frustration and struggle in life. So they said:1. Do not have a desire, become desire free. If you do so, you do not comparehow you struggle and how others enjoy.Since one has no desire, he is never disappointed for not getting or achievinganything,2. Do not get attached to the fruits of your actions. If you do things honestlydo it without expecting any return or benefit from such actions. Since you arenot attached with any good or bad consequences of your actions and doing actionsas you happen to act as per your conscience, you have no regrets,disappointment.3. Do not have the self-ego that identifies yourself as an independentdecision-maker or doer of actions. If whatever you do just happens as like theSun burns and give light or the earth spins and moves in her orbit or the treegrows, gives fruits and flowers away and dies or get cut for man's use as woodenfurniture, you do not feel sad or frustrated because all action of yours are notyours but actions that happens through your body and mind. You do not normallydecide to inhale and exhale: breathing happens independent of your decisionmaking. All actuions that you happen to be associated with may be thought of asjust happenning and not due to your independent decision-making or your owndoing.4. Do not think anything in this world is really different from you. All arethe same. Happiness and sorrow are the same. You and your friends and enemiesare the same. All the outcome of the process of the uinverse's continuouscreation, evolution, maintenance and destruction. In all these the ultimatepower exists in some form. This knowl;edge makes you identify yourself with theultimate orgin of the entire Creation and the creator. You just become a witnessto whatever is happenng in this world without any compklain or iking ordisliking. Once you follow all the above, you start livng a very different life than thenormal human life. You have no more the fear of bad things happening to you, youare not anylonger excited about good things happening to you, you are not anylonger worried about the uncertain future or about death or about meeting yourhunger and other basic needs. Thus, you just be the witness to whatever is happening observing but unaffectedin your mind.Very rarely does a person become like that. But those who try progresses tovarious extent towards that state of liberation from sensual pleasures, desires,attachment, ego and differences in forms. He becomes progressively contentedand fine with anything that happens.Once you move along this approach or path, provided the tendencies or propertiesyou have inherited genetically from your parents and ancesestors are congentialor supportive of following such a path, you are moving on the path of freedomfrom Worldly life.All this does not mean that you stop working or taking actions. You continue todo all these as if someone else is doing all these and therefore you are notaffected or attached to such action and their consequences.Maybe God has destined you to move long such a path or feel unhappy with yoursituation because of unjust and unfair manner the World operates. You may remainbeyonf all justice and fairness or you may suffer in your mind with anxiety,tension, frustration, fear, grievances, and so on. But one day all suchsufferings will reduce or go away altoghther irrespective of what you do and donot do.Basudeb Sen

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Dear Vasundharaji

Sure if we look at things in terms of short term perspective,it seems that good people are struggling and evil mongers are propspering-but what we are seeing is only of this life-if we think about karma,then we know that people are enjoying or suffering their past karma alone.

also, god gives people what they need-people who are greedy etc need to get saturated in that feelign before they become disgusted and give up.for people who are good,he makes them work out their past karmas and rewards them with moksha.

this reminds me of a story of krishna and arjuna.

once krishna and arjuna,disguised as beggars went a begging-they stopped at a rich man;s house and asked for alms-the rich man said-please go furthur,there is nothing here-krishna blessed him and said-may your riches grow.next,they visited a very very poor old man who lived in a hut and asked for alms-the poor man brought waht little he had and gave them joyously-krishna told him-may this hut burn away soon.

upon leaving the house arjuna asked krishna hwo he could bless the rich man with wealth and the poor man this way-krishna replied-the rich man wants more and more wealth-let him take more human births to realise me-as for the poor man-that hut alone is standign between him and me.

strange are the ways of god and if we look at it from only one perspective,it may seem like he is rewarding evil people and punishing good ones but quite the contrary!

hari smarana

ramaa Sreenivasan -

In kaliyuga, the wicked are rewarded and the good suffer. The reality is however different. We are suffering or prospering not due to our karmas in our present life but our past life karmas also. So the ways of Parmatma are mysterious but one can say this with conviction that those who do good karmas will find their paths smoothened while those who accumulate bad karmas will meet their nemesis sooner or later.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Vasundhara,

All human laws are, properly speaking, only declaratory; they have no power over the substance of original justice. Edmund Burke

I understand your frustation. Yes, it appears as a rule, that the dishonest alone succeed. But, just think for a few more minutes and answer the question whether the Supreme Being or Parama Atma has anything to do with work + Result equations of material world. If one is keen on material success of this world, he/she should adopt the techniques suitable to that goal. The methods of obtaining the superior and permanent happiness are different from the methods applicable for gaining materially. When one aims for the superior things, he/she is bound to suffer materialistically. Please refer to 12.5 of Bhagavad Gita (BG). More elaborately, one who aims for the ultimate finds little use of mundane benefits and hence tends to ignore earning them.

The so called Veda is divided into two parts. The first part is devoted to methods (instruments) of optimally exploiting the Prakriti. It is purely materialistic. Even the Svarga it promises is of temporary duration. Kindly refer to 9.20 and 21, BG. It, this part of Veda called Poorva Meemaamsa, has been declared unfit to take any one to permanent Bliss, cf. Kathopanishad, Slokas 11.48, 52-55 of BG. On the other hand, the second part of Veda, the Vedanta (Upanishat) does not take one to Parama Atma but helps you to understand the properties and Gunas of Parama Atma and gives you some possible methods of realizing IT and enjoying the realization. This enjoyment is permanent.

If one aims for pleasure and happiness, he should adopt that path (symbolically described as Krishna Gati or dark path), else Sukla Gat the bright path (cf. ch.8 of BG). In the Maha Bharata war which was just a pretext to elucidate these truths, observe carefully what Krishna has done to win the war. If you can read sanskrit original or the Telugu translation (the part by Tikkana) pay special attention to the chiding handed over by Krishna to Yudhishtara (Dharma Raja, in Telugu) In Salya Parva, when Dharmaja wanted to show off his magnanimity by offering Duryodhana the choice of weapon and opponent too. Unfortunately this part is often ignored by the readers. Maha BHarata and Ramayana are read like stories but not as Dharma Saastra. Pity.

One gentleman about sixty years back wanted to be recognized as Messiah of peace and we the Indians have been suffering due to his Keerti Kandooti for these sixty years. Country is material. It should not be mixed with non material objectives.

This most prevalent misconception and worse frustration. I apologize if I did wrong

Krishna

------------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -