How to Develop / Transform Communities and Societies per Gitaji

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas,

I would greately appreciate if you shed some lights from 'Geetaji' onhow onecan choose the path to community development or development and positivechangesin society...There are very succint pointers to self development andtransformation but how does one translates that vision for larger issuesaffecting society as a whole...

Thanks for your insights

Hari Om

Shailesh Shukla

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NEW POSTING

Jai Shri Hari,

First of all, we need to understand who they are, why do we need to help/serve them and then how to help them.

Bhagavan Krishna says, "MAM EVA ANSH" (15-7) means all are his (i.e.God's) children.In another way, he says the whole word is subjects of my sons who are known as Saptarishhi, 4 Sanakaadis, Manus,( MAHARSHHAYA SAPT PURVE CHATVAARO MANVASTATHA | MADBHAAVAA MAANASAA JAATAA ESHHAAM LOK IMAAH RAJAAH - 10/6). We are called "Manushya" because of Manu. In India, you may findpeople carrying GOTRAs (BHAARDVAAJ, GAUTAM, etc. ) to indicate their lineages based upon those great sages and their disciples/sons. The point is that we all are God's children. Bhagvaan Ram says "SAB MAM PRIYA SAB MAM UPAJAAYE -- Maanas" i.e. all are created by me and all are dear to me.

Now, if we all belong to the same supreme father, then how can a true lover of his father keep him away when his brothers/sisters are suffering. Once, Swami VivekanadJi approached Swami RamKrishna ParamhanshJi seeking the guidance to be in samaadhi (i.e. trance). Swami RamKrishna ParamhanshJi said " How can you think of enjoying the bliss of samaadhi when people around you are suffering and struggling for their survival". Later, Swami VivekanandJi emphasised upon serving the people before imparting the knwoledge of Vedanta. Mahatma Gandhi went further on this concept and used the word "Daridra Naraayan" (ie.God in the form of destitudes) to refer to the poeverty-stricken people and encouraged the people to serve them like God.

Here one point should be noted that we are related in this global family just because of our supreme father who created this world/family and the goal should always be to please the father by serving his children though the father has been helping al his children. Another point, we must not forget that our father (i.e. God) is dwelling in every beings (ISWARAH SARVABHOOTAANAAM -18/61; AHAMAATAMA GUDAAKESHA SARVA BHOOTAASHAYASTHITAH - 10/20; HRIDI SARVASY VISHTHITAM -13/17) . So, while serving the people we should have strong feeling of serving the God/SELF instead of serving the destitudes or poors or unprivilged etc. Otherwise, it will gratify the ego which will obstruct to realize the love of God though one can accumulates PUNYAs to reap them in future. Now question is who can really feel the presence of God in everybody's heart? For this, we need to first improve ourselves to have that feeling. Shri Pandurang Shasti Athvale Ji gave a concept of "Antah Bhakti" (i.e. inner devotion) and "Bahya Bhakti" (i.e. outer devotion). "Antha Bhakti" is used to purify ourselves and "Bahya Bhakti" is used to serve the world and at the same time it tests the level of "Antha Bhakti". In other worlds, unless we have clean water in our clean bucket we can not make others healthy by offering that water.

Karmayogis always help the world by offering his selfless actions to the world. For GyaanYogis, BhagavanJi strongly suggests to be always involved in helping others ("SARVABHOOT HITE RATAH - 5/25, 12/5") to wash away the false "I"-ness easily. Bhaktyogi does everything for God and he even considers the word as "God" (SAT ASAT CHA AHAM ARJUN - 9/19; SAHASRABAHO BHAV VISWAMURTE - 11/46), so he is already trying to see his "Viswa Murti" (i.e. God) happy. Swami RamsikhdasJi says every body is capable to help others. Whatever we have, is all received from the world, so it must be used to render services to the world. SwamiJi says all the activities with the gross body, thinking with the subtle body and samaadhi with causal body should be used to help others. Swamiji says, If you can not do much you can atleast develop your feeling to be happy seeing others happy and sad seeing others sad (PAR DUKH DUKH SUKH SUKH DEKHE PER -Maanas).

With this, I think we all can and should TRY to help each other (PARASPARAM BHAAV YANTAH SHREYO PARAM AVAAPSAYTH - 3/11) at different levels from different angles with different things to make our father's family happy towards realizing the love of God (i.e. the supreme goal).

Thanks & RegardsNiteesh Dubey--------------------------------

This is a very valid question. I find in general, in Hindu/Indianculture, the emphasis is on the individual on the basis of the belief,"First transform yourself, you can transform thousands." There is hardlyany definite instructions /rules about what to do in society/community,unlike in some other religions. Most of the specificities are left tolocal communities/groups to work out for themselves. For instance permy knowledge and understanding, the dress codes or dietary rules are notvery specifically encoded in the scriptures. Far from being a weakness Ithink is a strength. For imagine there is rule of 12th century whichsays you should eat certain things in a certain way, what an oppressivething it would be ! Instead our scriptures preach principles like asatvik diet being good for spiritual life. I think we should value thisfreedom, follow the principles to our conscience , adopt specific rulesfor community/social life in a spirit of accommodation and toleranceafter a full debate and discussion in public, even while being veryvigilant about not diluting the principles. Regards, Uma Shankari-----------------

PRIOR POSTING

How to Develop / Transform Communities and Societies per Gitaji? How todevelop and transform the soceities? We do not need anything otherthanthe question itself. You want to change the soceity - that want isenough. Gitais not required there. A caution though. Soceity meanshumans (unfortunatelyhumans have stopped considering the fellow livingbeings as their siblings!).Humans means treasures of desires and fears.If you know what desire and fearmeans, if you know how to mend them andhow to tend them, you can certainly makean attempt to change the world.A Buddha could do. A Jesus could do. A Gnadhicould do. If you notice,they all conquered the domains of desires and fearswithin beforeattempting the conjugate domain in the soceity. Stories say BuddhaandJesus conquered first before opening mouth while we know that Gandhikeptexperimenting truthfully within as well as around.To understand thedelusive dominion of desires and fears … is there any textbetterthan Bhagavad Gita? I do not think so. Then what verse should werefer?Let us say start with 'Daramakshetre kurukshetre samavetaayuyutsavaah |Maamakaah paanaDvaashchaiva kimakurvata Sanjaya ||' andcomplete the 700+ versesnot letting out even a syllable slip and notletting the glimpse of yourselffade even for a moment. As Narinderjinarrates realization by Osho's Sufi, it islife as such ... to berealized now and here with all urgence ... As all dearSadhakas havealready opined rightly ... once the couldrum of desires and fearswithinstart emptying, its mirror image in the world also starts emptyingfast!The person on the path of self realization automatically releivesmany along theway as one stops seeing difficulties with oneself.But, thesoceity is like that crop (or should we say weed?!) whichkeepsflourishing toward its core values cropping up from the basic SIXtendencies(Arishadvarga) as the great author Salman RushDie points out.It is bound todeteriorate to its wrotten position again and again ...KrishNa came ... Buddhacame ... Jesus came ... Mohammed came ...Shankara, Madhva and Ramanuja came ...Gandhi came ... see where itstands even now! Vyaasa is the only one who choseNOT TO PREACH. KrishNacould have educated the whole mass and averted the bloodywar asGaandhaari claims. It does not work that way. Only who seeks willattainpeace. Peace cannot be forced upon ...Once an altruist met RamaNaMaharshi and asked the same question quoting themiracles by Jesus andKrishNa. The Maharshi just stared at him intently for awhile and said,"Do you think great people such as Jesus would think ofviolating the lawof nature?". The miracle is not in Jesus removing blindness incouple ofpeople he met. If we insist on such acts, he should have eliminatedtheblindness from this world altogether! The miracle is in the individualwhorecognizes the inherent blindness with divine association and takespositivesteps to remove the blindness within. Divinities such as Vyaasa,Buddha andJesus did that then and are continuing to do that even now tothe true seekers.NOTE: THIS IS NOT TO PUT DOWN ANY EFFORT OF SOCIALREFORMS. THAT IS A PERPETUALREQUIREMENT AND HUMANITY KEEPS FINDING ITSLEADERS APPROPRIATE TO THE TIME ANDLOCATION AS AND WHEN REQUIRED. Suchleaders cannot be considered under thespiritual umbrella as the soceityalways needs a strong willful and desirefulwhip to mend its ways to takeit toward progress. However, if such leadershappen to interface with thedivinity as well, that is the luck for thatsoceity.Regards.NagaNarayana.

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The ' I am ' is always the I am

ah !

How could it ever be what 'I am' is Not ...............

how simple is the Truth ........ how true the words ..............

and oh ! how pleasing ........ how revealing ............... ah !

 

The ' I am ' is always the I am

BUT

when the silent ' thought ' blossoms' in narinder ,

ever bathed in the purity of silence ,

when the thought' I am ' rises in the self , bathed in the Light that isConsciousness

bathed in the Light that is Krishna

the 'I am', then, becomes truly capable of Sewa .... that transformssociety

sewa that blesses the self unto the death of the self ...........

death that is Life eternal ............

ah, dear dear sadhaks true ............

seek then to be what you already are , were and shall ever be...........

that, which in you lies eclipsed by the Mind also called egoity..........

seek to de-eclipse the source , in which the thought " I " rises

rises, not as a fragrance of silent love ..........

but ever so noisily, so threateningly, " I am" ... " I am " ...

" I am .... you know , who I am ?"

should you really wish to serve society, to transfrom society...........

begin first with yourself ...........

transform yourself, .......... serve yourself .............be yourself....love yourself .....

love yourself wisely .....................

let all that stands between you and your happiness true drop from yourbeing

drop from the self ..............

ah, ..... be yourself ........... love yourself .............

walk the Path the buddhas have shown ....................

karma , bhakti or gyana............

quibble not about words .......... walk the Way ............

meditate, meditate, meditate..................

meditation is the Way ..................

meditation it is that de-eclipses the mind ,

meditation it is that transfroms the self ............

whether Karmayogi, bhakta, or Gyana-margi you be..............

 

AUM

narinder bhandari

PRIOR POSTING

 

Pranaams

I have been active in community development activities since 20 years.sankhya yoga has been of great use from the beginning. After I becamepart of this satsanga, I found a lot of guidance in karma yoga also. Theshlokas that talk about doing every work as part of a yajna and thatwhich speaks about unconditional love are integral to our existance.

Thank youVeena Hassan--------------------------Partap Jee and Sushil Jain jee, thank you for the clarity in the answer true .......

the basic unit of the society is the individual

the greatest service the individual can do fior the society is torealise himself ,

to become aware of the False as False

and enter the domain of the self ...............

when that happens, the individual shall ......

shall, in turn, help others to shed their impurities , to become Lovedivine;

the society, then, shall improve by itself ......................

narinder is reminded of a beautiful story by Osho , the story of Bayazid,

Bayazid, a Sufi mystic, has written in his autobiography, "When I wasyoung I thought and I said to God, and in all my prayers this was thebase: 'Give me energy so that I can change the whole world.' Everybodylooked wrong to me. I was a revolutionary and I wanted to change theface of the earth.

"When I became a little more mature I started praying: 'This seems tobe too much. Life is going out of my hands--almost half of my life isgone and I have not changed a single person, and the whole world is toomuch.' So I said to God, 'My family will be enough. Let me change myfamily.'

"And when I became old," says Bayazid, "I realized that even the familyis too much, and who am I to change them? Then I realized that if I canchange myself that will be enough, more than enough. I prayed to God,'Now I have come to the right point. At least allow me to do this: Iwould like to change myself.'

"God replied, 'Now there is no time left. This you should have asked inthe beginning. Then there was a possibility.'"

This, everybody asks in the end. One who asks in the beginning, he hasunderstood the nature of things. He understands that even to changeoneself is not an easy thing. You are a whole world within you; youcarry the whole world. All that exists, exists within you. You are awhole universe, not a small thing--if this change can happen you haveattained. Otherwise:

When the deep meaning of things is not understood,the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.The Way is perfect, like vast spacewhere nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or rejectthat we do not see the true nature of things.The Way is perfect, like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothingis in excess.... Everything is as it should be; you just have to settle in it, only youare unsettled. Everything is as it should be...nothing is lacking andnothing is in excess.

Can you think of a better universe than this? If you are wise, youcannot; if you are a fool you can. Nothing can be better than this, asit is. The only problem is you are not settled in it. Be settled in itand the way is perfect, like vast space, and nothing is lacking andnothing is in excess. Everything is balanced. Only you are the problem;the world is not the problem at all._______ OSHO

 

AUMnarinder bhandari

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Community development will come when we do sewa or service, sadhna orspiritual practices, satsang or keeping the company of good people anddhyan or meditation.

Hari Shanker Deo

 

Fellow learners,Should we not get rid of the feeling "I will do something for others" beit community or society. Between thes etwo words, I prefer Community asit is all embrasing. We do our job thoroughly and set an example forothers. Yat Yat aacharati Sreshtah tat tat eva Itaro janah; Sa YatPramaanam kurute lokah tat anuvartate. Let us clean ourselves first anddo our jobs thoroughly without a blemish. Like the saying, "Take care ofPennies; the pounds will take care of themselves" doing one's own chosenjob is more than serving the society.

Working can and should have goals and aims. But one should strive toreach the goal but not disspirited by failure. Laabha, Alaabhou Jaya,ajayou samatvam yoga uchyate. Yoga consists of doing and notsuccess/failure.

and, refer to (3.25)

Samudrala Krishna

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhakas,Hare Krishna

This is in response to a question from a sadhaka.We need to make the society, God Conscious. By spreading the divinemessage, society becomes peaceful. Benevolent and productive.

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita." Ya idam paramam guhyam,Mad bhaktesv abhidhasyati,Bhaktim mayi param krtva,Mam evaisyaty asamsayah. "( Gitaji, 18, 68. )

Which means,' For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, puredevotional service is guaranteed, and he will come back to Me in theend. '

Here the supreme secret is what Lord Krishna says in Gitaji ,' Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I shalldeliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. ' ( Gitaji 18, 66).

Pure devotional service in any form is the key to spiritual progress.

Thank You.

Hare Krishna

Prasad.A.Iragvarapu, M.D

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Be the change that you desire to see in the world around you. So if youfeelthat your purpose of existence is Self realization, then you will becomelikeone of the few who have realized the divine.It is but few who hear about the Self. Fewer still dedicate their livesto itsRealization. Wonderful is the one Who speaks of the Self. Rare are theyWho makeit the supreme goal of their life. Blessed are they who, through anilluminedTeacher, attain to Self-realization.So these rare souls become the force multipliers who transform society.This canhappen to anybody who puts in the intense effort to live a liferecognizing thedivinity is all creation and striving to serve all.Dr. Vispi Jokhi

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BG 3/11 REFLECTSOPEN YOUR MENTAL LOCKSSEE THE DIVINE VIEWTHANXRAJA Gurdasani---------------------------

Dear Sadaks,One Buddha, One Christ, One Mohomed, One Mother Terasa, One SriRamakrishna & Vivekanandha, one Gandhi and Sri Ramsukhdasji could dowonders. Of course there were hundreds of Saints who left behindwonderful knowledge to follow, but many does NOT. Sri Shailesh Shuklajidivine desire will be fulfilled only by Bhagavan, not by anyone. Thestrength, circumstances, followers etc will come to him.But Sri Shailesh Shuklaji first try with your whole family thefollowing:- Normally Deepavali was celebrated in those good old dayshundred years ago, with stick at one end wrapped with small piece ofcloth, whetted with ghee or oil, lighted to show the era of brightnessand fearlessness due to the death of Narakasur. Now, all sorts ofcrackers spoiling vaayu mandal (Atmosphere). In Sastras it is said ifwater and air is polluted, the people have to pay the consequences. Whenghee or oil lamp lighted to celebrate, the air actually gets purified.forget next door or others. Can we make our children understand thescientific value of pollution and the reason of old days methodcelebration, and see that our own children will listen and follow thissmall request. I wish all sadaks take it as challenge and start thisdeepavali for good.May many Narakasurs in us die, and we all see the glory of Bhavan.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

There are two shlokas of Gitaji that I would like to share. Gita 6/5,the meaning of which is - Man must lift himself up by himself, manmust not degrade himself, because He alone is his own friend and Healone is his own enemy. Also Gita 3/21 - the meaning of which is - as a gentleman behaves, other men follow suit. See Sadhak Sanjivanipg 381 and 181.

An excellent means of improving the society, is improving ourselves. We ourselves do not try to improve, and if we put significant effortinto improving the society, then nothing will happen. You see foryourself that in rainy season, so many weeds start to grow all over, similarly we see that so many institutions have cropped up to servesociety, but how much has the society really improved with their hel, this information is not hidden from you?

Just as Swami Ramsukhdasji has given a mantra for this, "In doing onemust be very careful, cautious, whereas in the outcome, one must remainever happy and joyful. (Karne mein saavdhaan, hone mein prasanna). Isimilarly, Gayatri Parivar's Shri Sharmaji has said - If we improvethen the time period will also improve. For a wise man, understandsat the slightest sign / indication. So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

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Hari Om

Welcome Shaileshji to this Satsanga Forum !

At the outset one must develop/transform himself. That is the no 1essential step in the process. If each human strives to develop/transform himself only... entire society/community shall gettransformed. It is your own conduct, your own developed/transformedstate that makes others follow as an example ("Lok Sangrah" in Gita).

Secondly, to be "sarvabhoot hite rataa" (continously indulged in welfareof all creatures) as per Gitaji , you need not carry the desire fordeveloping others. You only have to do your duty diligently. Any desireis bad. "To do good to others" has to suffer essentially limitations- oftime, things, resources etc. YOU GET LIMITED - however powerful orresourceful you are! Then again and still the results may not be as peryour desires. You CAN NOT do good to ALL. But you MUST do good to all .You must be- SARVABHOOT HITE RATAA. "Sarva" means all, no exceptions, behere, or in Timbaktoo, all ! "Bhoota" means all creatures,humans/animals/birds/ demi gods/trees/ghosts all ! Because you by natureis UNLIMITED ! Now how to proceed?

Now : It is a law that if you follow say Karma Yoga (Your Q is withreference to Karma- to do something) there will be "automatically" goodflowing from you- you will automatically be "sarvabhoot hite rataa". How? In Karma Yoga - You DO NOT wish/do/bad to others; and understandothers to be bad (with reference to all jeevas , including your ownbody/mind/intellect ) ! That means- you automatically become "sarvabhoot hite rataa" ! Because when when you dont do bad, what can you doexcept good? That is the real method of developing society/community.Then whatever you do is automatically helps others !

The beauty lies in adopting "not to do bad" as against "to do good" !"To do good" - you become ALWAYS limited. (You cant claim , howeverpowerful or resourceful you may be, that I have done good to ALL). Butwhen you dont do bad you become "UNLIMITED" in your reach. You can claimsitting in India, that you did not do any bad to a say an unknown humansay in America. That is "Sarvabhoot hite rataa"

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---

Dear Ones, Namaste!It is a very valid question.I am a part of society, and society is I. If I see this factually, nottheoretically only, then I have to change myself. How? by thoroughlyunderstanding the message of Geeta, and put it in practice whatever Iunderstand clearly! It is a fact that "whatever I understand only thatwill creep in my behavior inspite of me"If I change then only people around me will change.There are so many "I"s making up the society, and each "I" need tochange and society will have changed. Spiritual Change is a individualissue, not a social one as I see itCommitment is what it takes to change myself first!Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

 

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Good question.......Many of us are bothered by this question.

All community development work start with "Me"..... It is not so muchabout changing others. It is about changing "Me", my having a largervision, my having a strong conviction, my enjoy the process of workingtowards that larger vision. The condition of community / society isonly a reflection of "Me"...If "I" is transformed, society or communityalso start to transform....

The transformation starts by understanding "Me" and rules/wisdom of lifebetter....by way of self enquiry....... Systematic understanding is the key...

If one has the larger vision.....called impersonal vision and strongconviction, everythingelse starts happening........others start following the leader.......

Look around how many NGOs, started by individuals having a larger visionand conviction, are able to get large support for their community workbecause people just join/follow them. A prime example is MahatamaGandhi. One must read his experiments with truth....

Sushil Jain--------------

Dear sadhakas,Hare Krishna

This is in response to a question from a sadhaka.We need to make the society, God Conscious. By spreading the divinemessage, society becomes peaceful. Benevolent and productive.

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita." Ya idam paramam guhyam,Mad bhaktesv abhidhasyati,Bhaktim mayi param krtva,Mam evaisyaty asamsayah. "( Gitaji, 18, 68. )

Which means,' For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, puredevotional service is guaranteed, and he will come back to Me in theend. '

Here the supreme secret is what Lord Krishna says in Gitaji ,' Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I shalldeliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. ' ( Gitaji 18, 66).

Pure devotional service in any form is the key to spiritual progress.

Thank You.

Hare Krishna

Prasad.A.Iragvarapu, M.D---------------Hari OM!

Dear Shailesh,

The best method is live the 20 values described in Srimad BhagawadGeetha, ourselves.

World development starts from each responsible individual. If we canhave at least

one Value like Amanitwam, Adambitwam, Ahimsa, Shanthi, Arjavam,....etc..

All others will gradually follow.

Hare Krishna

With Love & Regards

Krishna Prasad------\----Society and community are made from individual and then, family.Positive changes in society start from positive changes in individualand family.

First, we ourselves should be peaceful, contend and happy. Bhagavad Gitaand Swamiji's teaching especially teach us how one can be peaceful inthis world. There are many processes and many ways - bhakti, jnana,karma etc. Please read Swamiji's books to understand it more.

We all live in family or household. Next step is to live in loving andpeaceful family. One of Swamiji's recent postings nicely describes howto increase love and peace in household.

Gita states that Vasudev is everything and everyone is part of Bhagavan.So, if we see our beloved Bhagavan in everyone, we will naturally serveand help everyone around us. We will care for poor around us. We won'tact selfishly but serve Bhagavan in everyone. Use money, wealth,products etc which belong to Bhagavan (not us) in service of Bhagavan ineveryone.

With such knowledge and understanding, a sadhak makes positive changesin people around him.

Gaurav Mittal

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