Guest guest Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Shree Hari Ram Ram Please share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on - 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)? 2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he does not destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaan in this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours. 3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan (God). Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ================================== When the Mind stops asking all questions and in the silent mind, in the joy of being, arises in you the Ultimate Question, " Who am I ? " the only True Question............. As the birth of the Question, you witness in awe and wonder Neither waiting for the answer, nor seeking, with the Mind................. When the Mind goes mute .................... and the wonderment keeps expanding dissolving the Mind in Joy.............................. In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!! God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks, there is No answer, nari Nothing to seek Nothing to know The question itself Contains the answer Hidden In its embrace And the answer Remains Ever and ever the Question The answer un-knowable. and so, nari, if your being asks the question and , having asked, revels in the un-answering Silence its own source its own self the not-self nari would know himself as the Knower true who does not know and yet knows ! and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaks nari's head, in reverence, bows............. AUM narinder bhandari ========================================== : Shree Hari: Ram Ram 31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla Trayodashi Question: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)? Answer: There are three points in this - 1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there is peace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan. 2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma, then one may behold God and 3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to behold Him, than too you will behold God. If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, He can make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan) of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of " I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine " - is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there is no need for anything else. Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)? Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan - Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his own beliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge / Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone's beliefs. On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothing lacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remains under his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining Self Realization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devotee lies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan. Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance to beholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this? Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This is because there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in love that the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love, beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously, uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that time true love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lover meets or does not meet, there remains no desire. From " Prashnouttermanimaala " in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji. Ram Ram For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net For online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Shree Hari Ram RamPlease share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on -1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram================================== NEW POSTING Hari OmAny desire is bad, including for even Darshanas of God ! Necessity is of "mineness" with Paramatma , He should be likeable to/ liked by you. A true Lover nevers seeks reciprocation. Our goal has to be "Love" (Prem) with Him. This 'Love' automatically arises in you due to 'mineness' with Paramatma ! There is no 'action'/ 'effort' at your end. Hence important is your mineness with Him not His darshanas. Any demand is bad and at the point of arising itself lowers you- makes you a beggar !! In any case, this world is first incarnation ( Avataar) of Paramatma ! Oh ! What a bliss it should impart to you, if you start seeing God in every one? God in front of you all the time, always ... ! Where then is the need for being a beggar? We are the children of the King of all Kings !! We are not beggars ! We are Lovers !! We are Royal Prince !!!Hence Swamiji said -"Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting." Lord Hanuman preferred to remain in world and decided that wherever there is 'Raam Katha' in the world , He shall be present. Characters like Kaak Bhusandi in Ramayana (dozens of examples can be given) sought "Bhakti" from God when they got Darshanas. What is Bhakti? Liking the God ! What else ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------ beauteously, have nagajee, pratapjee, vyas jee, vineetjee, and, all the sadhaks of Joy and Love that is God, shared their experience .................. shared their experiencing ................................. experiencing is Real................... the experiencer and the experience arise on either end ........ loving is real, the lover and the beloved arise as the Joy of loving ...................... dancing is Real.............. when dancing stops, the dancer and the dance are no more !!!!! AUM narinder bhandari ------------------ SOMEONE rightly said " in hindi" EKEY SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB JAYE i respect these words very much till date though almost 18 years have passed since i heard these Rahul ------------------------- Jai HanumanI am not fully convinced reg: the statement made by Anirudhji Joshi re : Belief. Why a distinction should be drawn between what relates with Daddy the Great and what does not relate with Him? "Tashya tashyachalam shraddhaam " stated in BG 7:21 ?For millions and trillions of eons , the Jeeva is loitering ! Had Daddy been interfering in their beliefs, Jeevas would not have sufferred for that long ! Swamiji would never forget to qualify a statement, if need be or here He is talking only with reference to a state of Devotee in front of Daddy the Great, the demand of Devotee ? Only with reference to that demand ? May be Joshiji is referring to a 'stupidity' as a 'belief' or may be he is not !!Then there is "Bhootani yanti Bhootejya" referred in BG 9:25 ! What do Learned Sadhaks have to say ?Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------------- Fellow learners,I am immensely pleased with Hari Shankara Deo. If one wishes to see the SupremeBeing, It can be found both inside and outside, it is far away and very close toyou, It moves and is static. It is present in the smallest sub atomic particleand at the same time it can occupy the whole space.(refer to Eesaavaasyopanishatand chapter 8 of Bg). It is as Shri Deo said, is all pervasive. "Visvam Vishnuh"is the first of countless names of It. Mokhs or release is not obtained fromreading scriptures, listening to discourse etc (Refer to Kathopanishat 2.23. Onehas to become Sarva bhoota hite rataa, sarvatra sama buddhayah and sarvaBhootaatma Bhootaatma to become eligible for Brahma Bhooyaaya Kalpate. All theseare terms used in Guta as prerequisites to "see" the Supreme Being.Seein a stone in certain shape can nver be equivalent to seeing the SupremeBeing. It is like seeing a musquito that once landed on an Elephant and claimingthat the musquito is Elephant. Kindly refer to 4.19 of Sveta Asva taraUpanishat, whch says Na tasya pratima Asti. Ofcourse it can be inter preted asThee is nothing equal to it. TRY TO SEEIT EVERY WHERE AND IN EVERY ONE. tHEN ALONE ONE CAN "SEE" IT.Krishna Samudrala --------------------------------SATIETY is a bliss for those who never seek it Rahul ================================== PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one is overwhelmed by reverence for whatever IS, one is beholding God! If one is overwhelmed by Unconditional Love, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by the Silence of mind, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by Joy that knows no cause, one is beholding God!One is beholding God only because God is beholding such a ONE!Namaskar..................Pratap Bhatt =========================== 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?One could behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God) … when nothing else (in otherwords, absolutely nothing) is held in one's vision (Darshan) … when one does nothave any desire to behold anything in one's vision as such … when any vision andevery vision becomes the same ... when the very desire to behold anything isdissolved completely.One 'beholds' the Bhagavaan when lets oneself 'beheld' completely in THE SAME... when the difference between the individual and Bhagavaan is completelymitigated ... when any difference between the individual and anything else iscompletely mitigated ... when the very duality, the differences between theperceived objects and worlds, is obliterated at its core.Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasya | na chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam ||2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.The belief of beholding the Bhagavaan is the paradox of its nemesis - belief ofnot beholding the Bhagavaan. Both are equally beheld within the Bhagavaan andboth are equally inadequate to behold the Bhagavaan as well. How can theALL-INCLUSIVE Bhagavaan destroy anything at all?! Nothing can be taken away fromHim ... even He cannot throw anything away!! All beliefs are acceptable to theBhagavaan as they all are absorbed within Him eternally ... yet, no belief canencompass (behold) Him as they all remain eternally momentary.PoorNamadah poorNamidam poorNaat poorNamudhachyate |PoorNasya poorNamadaaya poorNamevaavashishyate ||3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Therefore, a vigilant devotee would never entertains any idea of beholding theBhagavaan (by experience and awareness) … just lets oneself dissolve in theocean of life as one with the same … merging in the Bhagavaan at once and oncefor all. This absolute merger that does not leave any trace of the individualback is verily THE LOVE that is talked of in great awe here. A devotee wouldonly look forward to the dissolution of one's own identity forever ... nothingelse ... no more beholding as the very beholding holds the individuality up inone's perception.Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptah | Ya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||Respects.Naga Narayana -------------------------------- Hari Om"Insight" only those can give who have had darshanas of Him. Let me therefore state what I have read / heard. During the 2oth century at least three close friends from Soil of India, realised Paramatma and at least 2 had 'darshanas' of God. Sethji Jaidayalji Goendka was earlier "Brahmavaadi" (Striver of Nirgun Niraakar). God, suo motto out of His sweet will, gave 'darshana' to Sethji. Sethji at that time was in Churu (Rajasthan) and because of fever was lying on a cot with a blanket on body. There he got "Chaturbhuj Bhagwaan" Darshana. (A Form of God with four hands) ! When God manifests, no wall or veil can obstruct Him. Sethji got 'romaanch' ( excessive thrill) and 'ashrupaat' (incessant huge flow of tears) . A 'bhava' came in his mind that God wants to tell him" Spread Nishkaam Bhava" in the world. Thereafter he changed from "Brahmavaadi" (Nirgun Nirakar) to "Ishwarvaadi" (Sagun Sakaar) ! But he never preached "yugal upasana" ( twin striving) ! In speaking Truth , Sethji was very famous and well known.Sethji was Founder of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was very close to him. He was elder to Swamiji. Swamiji always very respectfully and affectionately remembered him till the end. Bhaiji ( Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) also had 'darshanas' of God. Whatever God told him, it got published by "Divya Sandesh" ( Divine Message) ! He got command from God of spreading the glory of "Naam Japa" ! Sethji and Bhaiji both were cousins ( their mothers were sisters) !In fact Swamiji also studied and strived in the beginning on "Nirgun Nirakaar" only. Later on , He realised that Bhakti is supreme and final goal. "Brahma" is "abha" (reflection) of Bhagwaan only. The power of feeding and nourishing all is in Paramatma (Ishwar) not in Brahma. By getting Brahma you get completeness but you donot get "Param Prem" ( ever increasing Divine Love) ! "Tattva Jnana" is "Atma Jnana"! After "Atma Jnana" (Self Realisation) , one becomes eligible for "Prem" (Paramatma Jnana) ! In Shrimad Bhagavatam ( 1/7/10) it is said:Those whose 'chijjad granthi' (Jeevahood) has been severed, such 'atmaram munis' ( liberated ) also do selfless/expectationless "nishkaam bhakti"; because the attributes (Gunas) of Bhagwaan are such that they attract people towards them. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram When the desire arose, then there was darshan of Bhagwaan. We cannot behold God in this life, this is not a belief. It is false (artificial). To speak of that which is false, is as good as wasting our time. A devotee is not clever, rather he is by nature sincere and undeceitful. For a devotee to behold God, or to attain Love, can it be in his hands? What God does and does not do, what can man know and discuss about this. Now that we have accepted that we are God's, now what remains in our hands? Whatever is God's will, that alone is our will, and that alone will happen. Is it possible for something else to happen? so be it, Vineet Sarvottam ------------------ Who is eligible to see Parama Atma and what is seeing IT? The Supreme Being isnot an object like a table or chair or Shilp Shetty etc. So seeing IT can not bein the biological and light theory sense. Seeing is understanding or realizingIts Tattva. That is why Lord tells Arjuna Na tu maam sakyase drashtum anena evasva cakshushaa" - 11.8 Gita (Gitaji sounds so aetificial). How do we realize orunderstand Its Tattva? The solution to this problem is in Slokas 11.48, to 55,More in my next Post.Krishna samudrala--------------------- There is no Bhagwan hanging in the sky. Parmatma is all pervasive and cannot be seen. Conversely what is not Bhagwan? But then all things which perish are illusions. Can one behold or have darshan of God? Yes after one has made oneself ready to have darshan, God may manifest in the form visualised by the devotee. However this happens after long periods of meditation after which one gets enlightenment. We have examples of great ones like the Buddha who went through years of meditation before he became enlightened. Also he had to go through a hundred births (Bodhisattavas) before he finally took birth as Siddharth. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! The Q by Moderators is based on the poetry written by Bhandariji. Otherwise Revered Swamiji had answered all the Qs beyond doubt. Bhandariji you starts with: WHEN THE MIND STOPS ASKING ANY Qs. But does mind ever stop? Neither Gita nor any Scriptures have suggested a state like that. Mind may become dispassionate but to STOP ! Unheard of in Spiritual terms at least. Only one Q is genuinely due for deliberation then. Paramatma habitually not breaking a belief. Here the belief is in Him or related with Him only which appears to be referred. Not the funny beliefs which we all carry with reference to the World/ worldly things/ people. Those beliefs Paramatma keeps breaking at astounding intervals. It is only when you form a belief with Paramatma in the picture, that belief is NEVER broken by Him. But, for example...you connect with the world and He will ensure disconnection ! Rely upon any worldly people ....you will get DHOKHA....DHOKHA !! But if you believe with reference to Him, His appointed Demi Gods, ...He will ensure that your belief is strengthened. Therefore, if you do not believe in God...He will not break your belief. But if you believe in world...it is bound to be broken !! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi -------------------- Radhey! Radhey !! Mr. Bhandariji. I am not able to understand anything from the poetry. Naga Narayanaji can help us understand? Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGWhen the Mind stops asking all questionsand in the silent mind,in the joy of being,arises in youthe Ultimate Question, " Who am I ?"the only True Question.............As the birth of the Question, you witnessin awe and wonderNeither waiting for the answer, nor seeking,with the Mind.................When the Mind goes mute ....................and the wonderment keeps expandingdissolving the Mind in Joy..............................In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!!God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks,there is No answer, nariNothing to seekNothing to knowThe question itselfContains the answerHidden In its embraceAnd the answerRemainsEver and ever the QuestionThe answer un-knowable.and so, nari,if your being asks the questionand , having asked,revels in the un-answering Silenceits own sourceits own selfthe not-selfnari would know himselfas the Knower truewho does not knowand yet knows !and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaksnari's head, in reverence, bows.............AUMnarinder bhandari==========================================: Shree Hari:Ram Ram31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla TrayodashiQuestion: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?Answer: There are three points in this -1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there ispeace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan.2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma,then one may behold God and3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to beholdHim, than too you will behold God.If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, Hecan make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan)of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of "I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine" -is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there isno need for anything else.Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)?Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan -Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his ownbeliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge /Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone'sbeliefs.On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothinglacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remainsunder his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining SelfRealization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devoteelies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan.Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance tobeholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this?Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This isbecause there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in lovethat the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love,beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously,uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore aclever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meetingor not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that timetrue love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lovermeets or does not meet, there remains no desire.From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Shree Hari Ram RamPlease share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on -1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram================================== NEW POSTING Hari OmMy this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, you said:"In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes ! When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! We need never be beggars ! I repeat we need never be beggars ! Surrender is not begging ! Prayers (you have referred many in your message) are not beggings. They are exercise of rights by children before their Father. If your grand son or son can be said to be begging before you, then a Bhakta also can be said to be begging before Lord !Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! You can keep desire during sadhan period (because it is need/necessity) but in the end throw the dust as well as broom out of house ! Are you aware, where does such begging lead a man to? He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! Do you agree? It is another matter that God calls such 'Artharthi' also a Bhakta and 'kind' ! A sadhak even 'gives' to God rather than begging. He gives his belief, shraddha, vishwas to God. He gives "Mineness" to God !! Mineness of a particular sadhak towards God can be given to God only by that particular Sadhak and by no body else ! God is deficient to that extent! By giving 'mineness' Bhakta fills that deficiency of God. Why does God help those sadhaks who surrender to Him? Because , God has strength but not 'weakness' ! Thus a sadhak gives to God what God does not have viz weakness ! HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego ( You will lose your fame, O Lord, what will I lose?)This is RIGHT of Bhakta! This is the height to which a Bhakta only can rise ! Come On !Now to say a sadhak is not 'clever' ( inspite of Swamiji using the word 'cleverness' in a positive/innocent sense) merely represents an over wisdom/ negativity/ego and a tendency to criticise for the sake of criticising. This is seeing the world as we are ! Nothing, nothing more than that ! Argue on this, with all of your strength if you can ! Anybody else can join freely in right spirit to argue ! I promise , I will not back away from arguments and will accept the truth , if proved wrong ! Welcome ! Pranaams ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------- WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE 'SUN' DOES NOT RISE FOR EVEN ONE DAY ?!THIS WORLD WILL FREEZE TO DEATH ALL VEGETATION WILL DIE AND THERE WILL BE DISASTER ! IF ANYONE ASKS ME TO SHOW 'GOD' I WILL PROUDLY SHOW THE SUN AND PROCLAIM THAT 'HE' IS MY GOD AS HE LOOKS AFTER THIS WORLD EVERYDAY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD DEPENDS ON THE SUN FOR ITS VERY EXISTENCE!WHEN IT IS WINTER ALL FEEL THE COLD IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION, WHEN IT IS SUMMER ALL FEEL THE WARMTH IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION AND WHEN IT RAINS THE RAIN DROPS FALL ON EVERYBODY IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTE CREED OR RELIGION ! LET US ALL UNITEDLY STAND UP AND SALUTE "THE SUN" AND PROCLAIM HIM AS OUR UNIVERSAL 'GOD' AS THIS SINGLE STEP WILL BURY ALL RELIGIONS AND REMOVE ALL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS . THERE IS NO RELIGION GREATER THAN HUMANITY AND THE 'SUN' GOD CAN UNITE THIS WORLD AND BRING RELIEF TO THE HUMANITY FOREVER. MAKE CONCENTRATED EFFORTS TO UNITE THIS TROUBLED WORLD,SO THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVERAFTER ! K.V.SATYAMURTY------------------------ Jai HanumanOnce Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj said: If somebody asks- How is world ? The reply is : As you are !! If you are good, the world will appear good to you. If you are bad, the world will appear bad to you ! Says Rahimdasji:Taahi Aheer ki chhokarian, chhachhia bhari chhaas pe naach nachavat !(To that Lord who is all powerful, the King of all Kings) - the Gopis of Braj used to make Him dance for a cup of butter milk !What was the strength of Gopis ? Prem ! Desireless Prem! It is desirelessness which gets you God not begging ! No opinions about the same !Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala----- Dandavat pranams.... All glories to Sri Sri guru and Gauranga.....I have been wanting to comment on this discussion......particularly as one sadhak has brought up suggestion that I find to be unpalatable. I saw it written that "to desire to have darshan of Bhagavan is bad".....this I cannot agree with. The Supreme Lord is our friend.....friend means happy times together, loving exchanges (giving gifts, offering nice food stuffs, talking confidentiallly.....as mentioned in verse four of Sri Upadesamrta, by Rupa Goswami.....dadati pratignati, guhyam ahkyati prchatti....bhukte bojayate chaiva, sad vidham pritti laksanam) If we have a dear friend (or Friend), we certainly want to spend time with that Person. It can never be considered bad...... In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, ch 18 verse 54, one very famous verse....brahma-bhutah prasannatma, na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu, mad-bhaktim labhate param....."One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me." In the purport to this verse, given by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, it is stated that , "to the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhuta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further, to become engaged in pure devotional service." In pure devotional service, there are very specific terms and characteristics for loving service in the mood of separation, and in the mood of union. " Vipralambha" rasa is the mellow of separation, and union is called "sambhoga". Both states have very specific symptoms and characteristics....but there cannot be one without the other. One cannot have a mood of separation without the hope and aspiration to one day again be with one's beloved. And when there is union, or time spent together, with Krsna, there is always awareness that again, vipralambha (or viraha) will follow, making the meeting more special. If we accept that God is our friend, we should know that there are different levels of loving relationships....mentioned in the scriptures as santa (neutrality), dasya (servitorship), sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (friendship), and madhurya (conjugal love).. There are certainly different veiwpoints on how to love and serve the Absolute, and I pray I have not offended any person of different belief by my words.....simply I do not wish any sadhak to be thinking that if they want to see their dearmost Friend, it is a bad thing. Even in this world, we desire to see those whom we feel love and affection for....how could it be wrong to wish to see that Person who is eternally our wellwishing companion, guide, beloved; our everything? respectftully, Maha Laksmi Dasi ---------------------------- joy, joy, joy 'witnessing ' the ananda that does not wax or vane'witnessing' the witness of right and wrong .............naga leads narinder into the joy where 'right' and 'wrong ' cease to be .....................only the Natkhat playing His flute the soundless sound of Aum singing the song of Love .............blessed is naga ................. naga no more .....................narayana .......................... narayana no more ..................the ever expanding word that Brahaman is .......................smiling at Himself now as naga .......................... now as narayana ..................ah !joy, joy joy ......O sadhakas true , narinder exhorts you ..................stop seeking outside what is already within you are that tat twam asi ............revel, my friends, in the Mahahvakya .........." Aham Brahamasmi.... Aham Brahamasmi ............... aham brahamasmi "and, IF .......................................................my friends, the 'happenning' does not happen .............. eclipsed by the self that knows not the selfwalk the Path ...............be yourself..................accept yourself .................love yourself ................Karamyoga is the Way Bhakti is the WayGyana-yoga is the Way .......AUMMeditation is the WayAUMnarinder bhandari ----------------- Narain ! Narain !! Shri Sathyanarainji ! You are confusing , in my humble view, between the types of Bhaktas. Your Bhakti is defined in Gita as that of "Aart" or "Artharthi" Bhakti. In this Bhakti in order to get rid of sorrows or in order to get more and more money Bhaktas instead of relying upon the world and worldly people , seek money and relief from sorrows from Bhagwaan. The examples given by you of Gajendra etc are that of Aarta bhaktas. There are Jnani and Curious Bhaktas also! But Paramatma likes Jnani Bhaktas most...and He says so in Gitaji also. Refer Gitaji 7:17. However , I could not understand why you should link the types of Bhaktas with EGO ! I also fail to appreciate such a sharp response by you to the use of word "clever" (word used by Param Shraddheya Swamiji is chatur in His discourse, which was translated to clever). I have no doubt that IF YOU WANT TO REALISE GOD....you have to become Jnani Bhakta...you have to become totally desireless. I am certain and can give you more examples from Scriptures to support this. In fact, desirelessness is PRE REQUISITE for Darshanas of God ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad Maharishi -------------------- Jai Shree Krishna Here the subject was not SAADHAN BHAKTI BUT SADHYA BHAKTI. CLEVER means DAKSHA ( Refer BG 12: 16) ! Note for ever- Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never use a single inappropriate word. Yes! There have been many Bhaktas refusing to ask anything from God. Swami Rupesh Kumar ---------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS is necessary for God Realisation and for Darshanas of God! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS means and includes not desiring even Darshanas of God. Dozens of verses from Gitaji and from Bhagvatam can be cited to prove. There is nothing wrong in Swamiji calling those desireless Bhaktas to be "clever" ! Before UTTARA even knew of Brahmashtra sent by Ashwatthama, Lord Krishna had decided to save Parikshit !! Doesn't the Lord already know what we want/desire? Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Namaste!I have contemplated upon two references:Srimadbhagavadgita/Essence of Yogavaasishtha.After granting Arjuna, mystic vision, he saw 'The Supreme Lord', in his Cosmic Form. Arjuna was not at that point prepared for what he saw, the whole universe in its dynamic form, and was petrified, Sadhaks are acquainted with Ch 11 Bhagavadgita,now refer to Verses 52---54:It is exceedingly difficult to observe this form of Mine. Even the Gods are always,keen to behold it.Neither by study of the Vedas, nor by penance, nor charity, or ritual could I be reviewed in this form, as you have.By unswerving devotion only can I be seen in this form (with four arms) and known in its essence and even its merger, O scorcher of foes.Now I particularly like Swamiji's comment on these verses:Sadhaka-Sanjivani (Eng.) page 1318.Exclusive devotion also means, no dependence on adoration or meditation, or spiritual discipline, for God-realization. Then why to worship the Lord and meditate on Him? These are the means to do away with one's pride. When pride is destroyed, the Lords grace, manifests itself and it is by His grace, that a devotee attains Him.Yogavaasishtha, (Story of Suraghu) Verse 38:On dissolution of the mind and egotism, there irises that greatest delight which which is the manifestation of the Supreme Being, existing in all objects (or living creatures).Love and devotion to Bhagwan, focus to reach a point whereby Divine Grace touches one.Om... Shanti...Mike. (K).---- Dear Sadaks, Swamiji Himself has said to ask Bagavan for love, devotion, faith Etc. There were so many Bakthas craved only for Dharshan of Bagavan. I can quote many. Bagavan has said about Karmiyartha Bakthi, which is conditional expectations of material benefits. But Bagavan HIMSELF has said he is also HIS baktha. The reason being that a man can start with conditional love, but eventually ends up with Nishkama Prema Bakthi (Unconditional, under any circumstances even if one looses his child wife or family, becomes beggar, but that man` s love grows rather than diminishing.) We are separated from GOD due to our Karmas by taking a body. The desire to reach HIM is natural and spontaneous. We are certainly beggars and let Bagavan be our only King. Gopies had desires for Bagavan, Vithur had, so many saints had, in fact so many saints begged Bagavan to liberate them. Examples are numerous, but One for the present. A vaisnavite saint called Kuratharvar begged Bagavan like this, " Oh Bagavan, it seems you saved that Elephant Gajender from Crocodile. Normally Elephant is egoistic, but I have SIX fold ego than that Gajendra that is Kama-Krodha-Loba-Madha Etc. Wont you save me from this clutches of this 6 fold arrogance." The knowledge of God is in front of us is mostly dangerous. Example: Sri Krishna pretended to have headache. Naradh rishi came and inquired. Bagavan said HIS head ache will go on applying the dust from the feet of any Baktha. Naradh said he cannot oblige as it sin to do so. Rumani Matha, Sathybama Etc said the same. Because they all had knowledge that the Bagavan is in front. But the Sri Krishna said to bring the dust from the feet of Gopies. Gopies trampled mud with Love and gave a bag of dust saying that they are ready to do anything to releave Bagavan headache. Kuchela went to beg Bagavan. Sri Hanuman begged Sri Ram to give him undisturbed bakthi on Ram Naam. Kunthi begged Bagavan. Uthara begged Bagavan to save her child (Parikhit) from in womb. Kunthi begged Bagavan at the end to give her sorrows always. Bishma begged. In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge. Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan. A devote is never clever. The thought of being cleaver is enough to put us down. This cleverness is seen by others but not by the one who is cleaver. One Example: Markanda Maha Rishi was doing penance in Badrinath. Sri Vishnu appeared and said, " Markandeya you done good penance and I appeared. Ask me a boon." Markanda asked Bagavan to show what is Vishnu Maya. Sri Vishnu showed Maya later part of life. The Sri Vishnu asked Markandeya, "Are you happy". Markada said, "Oh Bagavan it was YOU wish to appear to me and YOUR wish to give me boon and YOUR wish that I did penance and nothing I have done". Sri Vishnu said, "There is no Ego absolutely and I bless you". Then Bagavan Sankara and Maatha Paarvathi also came there and blessed Markandeya. B.Sathyanarayan --- Hari Om'Prem' only is 'Radha/Gopi Tattva' ! Paramatma is hungry for Prem. In Prem 'bhava' (inner sentiment) is only of giving, giving and giving. In Prem there is 'nitya yoga' ( always connection) ! Both Darshans and Antardhyaan (connection and disconnection) are in 'nitya yoga' ! The bliss which you get say in this attraction : "This watch is mine , I should get it" ( viz in Prem) that bliss is not there in the knowledge that 'this is watch'( viz in Darshanas) ! In Prem , the knowledge becomes tasteless !The examples given by me of Sethji and Bhaiji getting Darshanas , was examples of their 'not desiring Darshanas' but getting Darshanas because God so willed ! God wanted His work to be done by them ( spreading of 'Nishkaam bhava' and 'naam japa' respectively) ! You can rise to those heights, in human life. Any desire is bad even when it is desire of God Himself. Because God spread His hands before Baali , He got the name of 'Vaaman' ( small) !! Desire instantly makes you small !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------------------------- Jai HanumanMaharajji said:The bliss of union (darshana) with God is indescribable. But in 'viyog' with Him also there is similar bliss. In Yoga (connection) , there is Viyoga (Disconnection) , and in Viyoga there is Yoga ! How?In yoga there is no 'tripti' (satisfaction) and in viyoga, there is no 'vismruti' ( forgetting) !! This state arises only in Prem, not in Jnana ! In Jnana, there is indivisible Ananda, while in Prem with indivisible Ananda there is also continuously increasing Ananda - Dine Dine Navam Navam ( Day Day New New) ! Thirst is not different from element called water. But Ananda is in thirst not in water! In the worldly thirst there is sorrow, but in Divine thirst there is Ananda of highest order! Only Premi Bhaktas can know this , not Jnani Bhaktas.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ------------------------------- Nishaji,Narinderji's inimitable poetic revelation on The Self (and the NOT-SELF!) doesnot need my interpretation and my interpretation does not suffice to explain thedepths of such a blissful experience either. I salute the absolute reverence andappreciation that springs out from his core existence toward his Guruvakaya aswell as the Shrutivaakya with the sweetness unique to his truthful experience.What I understand from his excalamtions is nothing different from what Iunderstand from the Upanishads …Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyahNa medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |You cannot 'behold' The God (or The Self) as the very act of beholding belongsto the mechanisms that enable the same - mind, senses, body, etc. The Self orThe Absolute cannot be fathomed by any of such instruments as they are NOTdesigned for beholding anything beyond them:Paraanchikhaani vyatriNaatsvayambhooh |Tasmaatparaangpashyati naantraatman ||But yet, when the same instruments suspend their excitations, The Self bloomsitself in the very instrument because The Self is inseparable from any. THATblooms in the one who dissolves in THAT unconditionally … when it blooms atone's core being, it blooms in every atom of one's existence:Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyahTasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanum svaam ||That supreme state is when all your cognitive opparatus transcends its ownlimits by coming to its natural state of silence as such. THE SILENCE is theonly fathomable solution to one who looks for The Absolute ... but, beware thatTHE SILNCE talked of here is not the silence that you and me think of ... it isTHAT beyond all our congnitive and incognitive limits:Yadaa panchaavatishThante gnyaanaani manasaa saha |Buddhishcha na vicheshTate taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||The more you try to explore and identify what The God is, more cocooned you getin the resulting beliefs. Never try to fathom what THAT could be - one, youcannot; two, you need not. You, just like anything else in this univerese, isalso THAT. Therefore, disengage from all your beliefs and notions to be what youare ... then YOU ARE THAT (Tattvamasi!):Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasyana chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam |Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptahya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||THAT is NOT what any mind could ever fathom … think of the very basis withinwhich the very mind is fathomed … think of THAT within everything known as wellas unknown could ever be fathomed ... verily THAT ALONE IS THE BRAHMAN. Neverdelude yourself to believe in anything else as THAT. Just like the senses orthoughts cannot fathom the mind in which they are fathomed, the mind also cannotfathom THAT within which it is fathomed:Yanmanasaa na manute yena aahurmano matam |Tadeva brahmam tadviddhi nedam yadidamupaasate ||We can keep revelling in the ocean of the abundant knowledge overflowing fromour great scriptures and saints … but, have you fathomed THAT with all these?ALL remains waste unless we do experience what is taught ... thousands of yearsof hearing and talking is not enough as Swamiji quotes,Baavara bed bidusha baavariya pothee pustak phandaa ||Therefore, as Narinderji suggests himself, do put an end to all the questionsand do experience the silence there of … yadaa panchaavatishThante … tadevabrahmam taddviddhi … THE SILENCE beyond all our cognition is THE BRAHMAN, THEABSOLUTE, THE TRUTH, THE BHAGAVAAN, THE KRISHNA, ...In symmary, whatever that is transacted through one's cognitive mechanism cannotbe THAT. Only when the cognitive inquisition halts, THAT reveals in fullblossom. I think that is what Narinderji means. Narinderji, pl. correct me if Iam misled.Respects.Naga Narayana ------- Dear Geetha Devotees, I am fortunate to meet a lady farmer -Thavudammal who has Dharsan of Lord krishna 3 times. She is maintaining about 200 cattle in her farm in avillage near Sivakasi in Tamil Nadu. .First Dharsan was Lords feet alone. Second dharsan of Lord as a small child- Bala krishna. Third time as a teenager with flute . Then regularly or some occasions she is able to interact with Krishna and recieve correct knowledge or answers from Him. Accordingly she changed her diet into satvic without vegetables, with out acidic food, worshipping only Krishna , not disposing aged cows or bulls but maintaining till the point of death, feeding all creatures including rats and dogs .She is alos giving due respect or follow horoscopic way of life according to dasa ,Bhutti and start important work on auspicious days. She is convinced of past birth/ karma and recieved insights of many person about their last birth or karma. She is an example of true saranagathi . This type of way of life certainly bring such elevation to those who follows - which is more practical for a wordly life of devotees rather than reading a lot with out adhering the truth or following other spiritual paths which may be suitable for sanniyasis or bramacharis. Ultimaytely those are blessed who is able to recive knowledge or answers or directions from Him for even day today affairs. This is more less a state like Ramakrishna paramhamsa able to speak with Kalidevi and follow accordingly. It requires Geeta way of life . When we are fully adhering simple life with high spiritual values certainly we are nearing Lord and one day or other He may answer our needs whith accumulation of Punniya karma by doing good deeds or so. With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, ---------------------------- I m very much wonderstruck at the dreams of Sadhakas who aspire for Divine Desires just like CHHOO MANTRA. I would request Devotees to go inside the bathroom for viewing their clear face in the mirror. Sometimes mirror is dust covered, sometimes there is no proper light, just to see once own face in the mirror. Like wise Sashaka desireous of "BHAGWAN DARSHAN" have to clean / purify his own inner screen of mind where one could precieve the image "MAN MELLA TAN UJLA" and have to purify his "MAL and WIKHEP" i.e. purify his actions "KARMAS" give up one's own undue desires "TRISHNAIN" and control vikars "KAAM" + "KIRODH" + "LOBH" + "MOH" + AHANKAR". to identitify with HM. As I have read and understnd from the scriptures, it takes many births to be able to have "BHAGWAN DARSHANAS". Bondage of ATMA & SUBTLE BODY is very complecated.This Sansara is very strange, beyond ordinary understanding, every jigyasu has to look within in confirmity with "VEDAS" and "GITAJI" teachings. Hari Motwani ------------------------------- ================================ PRIOR POSTING Hari OmAny desire is bad, including for even Darshanas of God ! Necessity is of "mineness" with Paramatma , He should be likeable to/ liked by you. A true Lover nevers seeks reciprocation. Our goal has to be "Love" (Prem) with Him. This 'Love' automatically arises in you due to 'mineness' with Paramatma ! There is no 'action'/ 'effort' at your end. Hence important is your mineness with Him not His darshanas. Any demand is bad and at the point of arising itself lowers you- makes you a beggar !! In any case, this world is first incarnation ( Avataar) of Paramatma ! Oh ! What a bliss it should impart to you, if you start seeing God in every one? God in front of you all the time, always ... ! Where then is the need for being a beggar? We are the children of the King of all Kings !! We are not beggars ! We are Lovers !! We are Royal Prince !!!Hence Swamiji said -"Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting." Lord Hanuman preferred to remain in world and decided that wherever there is 'Raam Katha' in the world , He shall be present. Characters like Kaak Bhusandi in Ramayana (dozens of examples can be given) sought "Bhakti" from God when they got Darshanas. What is Bhakti? Liking the God ! What else ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------ I have a desire to see Bhagavan Ram. When I delve deeper, that desire is not born due to love towards Ram. If I truly loved Ram, then I would be extremely eager to remember Him, see Him etc.I want to see Ram so that I can think of myself as great devotee. It is because of the ego.I want to feel special.Anyways, that is the reason for me to see Ram. When ego subsides, then I don't have desire to see Ram.Ram is everywhere and in everyone. I just want to remember Him, reduce my attachment to this world and increase my attachment to Ram.If I follow above, then Ram will take care of the rest. (yoga ksema vahamyaham) Gaurav Mittal ------------- I would like to thank Sri Vyasji for this wonderful email. What is "yugal upasana"? Vyasji or others, could you elaborate on that? Thank you very much.Ram Ram,Gaurav Mittal -------------------------- beauteously, have nagajee, pratapjee, vyas jee, vineetjee, and, all the sadhaks of Joy and Love that is God, shared their experience .................. shared their experiencing ................................. experiencing is Real................... the experiencer and the experience arise on either end ........ loving is real, the lover and the beloved arise as the Joy of loving ...................... dancing is Real.............. when dancing stops, the dancer and the dance are no more !!!!! AUM narinder bhandari ------------------ SOMEONE rightly said " in hindi" EKEY SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB JAYE i respect these words very much till date though almost 18 years have passed since i heard these Rahul ------------------------- Jai HanumanI am not fully convinced reg: the statement made by Anirudhji Joshi re : Belief. Why a distinction should be drawn between what relates with Daddy the Great and what does not relate with Him? "Tashya tashyachalam shraddhaam " stated in BG 7:21 ?For millions and trillions of eons , the Jeeva is loitering ! Had Daddy been interfering in their beliefs, Jeevas would not have sufferred for that long ! Swamiji would never forget to qualify a statement, if need be or here He is talking only with reference to a state of Devotee in front of Daddy the Great, the demand of Devotee ? Only with reference to that demand ? May be Joshiji is referring to a 'stupidity' as a 'belief' or may be he is not !!Then there is "Bhootani yanti Bhootejya" referred in BG 9:25 ! What do Learned Sadhaks have to say ?Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------------- Fellow learners,I am immensely pleased with Hari Shankara Deo. If one wishes to see the SupremeBeing, It can be found both inside and outside, it is far away and very close toyou, It moves and is static. It is present in the smallest sub atomic particleand at the same time it can occupy the whole space.(refer to Eesaavaasyopanishatand chapter 8 of Bg). It is as Shri Deo said, is all pervasive. "Visvam Vishnuh"is the first of countless names of It. Mokhs or release is not obtained fromreading scriptures, listening to discourse etc (Refer to Kathopanishat 2.23. Onehas to become Sarva bhoota hite rataa, sarvatra sama buddhayah and sarvaBhootaatma Bhootaatma to become eligible for Brahma Bhooyaaya Kalpate. All theseare terms used in Guta as prerequisites to "see" the Supreme Being.Seein a stone in certain shape can nver be equivalent to seeing the SupremeBeing. It is like seeing a musquito that once landed on an Elephant and claimingthat the musquito is Elephant. Kindly refer to 4.19 of Sveta Asva taraUpanishat, whch says Na tasya pratima Asti. Ofcourse it can be inter preted asThee is nothing equal to it. TRY TO SEEIT EVERY WHERE AND IN EVERY ONE. tHEN ALONE ONE CAN "SEE" IT.Krishna Samudrala --------------------------------SATIETY is a bliss for those who never seek it Rahul ================================== PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one is overwhelmed by reverence for whatever IS, one is beholding God! If one is overwhelmed by Unconditional Love, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by the Silence of mind, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by Joy that knows no cause, one is beholding God!One is beholding God only because God is beholding such a ONE!Namaskar..................Pratap Bhatt =========================== 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?One could behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God) … when nothing else (in otherwords, absolutely nothing) is held in one's vision (Darshan) … when one does nothave any desire to behold anything in one's vision as such … when any vision andevery vision becomes the same ... when the very desire to behold anything isdissolved completely.One 'beholds' the Bhagavaan when lets oneself 'beheld' completely in THE SAME... when the difference between the individual and Bhagavaan is completelymitigated ... when any difference between the individual and anything else iscompletely mitigated ... when the very duality, the differences between theperceived objects and worlds, is obliterated at its core.Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasya | na chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam ||2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.The belief of beholding the Bhagavaan is the paradox of its nemesis - belief ofnot beholding the Bhagavaan. Both are equally beheld within the Bhagavaan andboth are equally inadequate to behold the Bhagavaan as well. How can theALL-INCLUSIVE Bhagavaan destroy anything at all?! Nothing can be taken away fromHim ... even He cannot throw anything away!! All beliefs are acceptable to theBhagavaan as they all are absorbed within Him eternally ... yet, no belief canencompass (behold) Him as they all remain eternally momentary.PoorNamadah poorNamidam poorNaat poorNamudhachyate |PoorNasya poorNamadaaya poorNamevaavashishyate ||3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Therefore, a vigilant devotee would never entertains any idea of beholding theBhagavaan (by experience and awareness) … just lets oneself dissolve in theocean of life as one with the same … merging in the Bhagavaan at once and oncefor all. This absolute merger that does not leave any trace of the individualback is verily THE LOVE that is talked of in great awe here. A devotee wouldonly look forward to the dissolution of one's own identity forever ... nothingelse ... no more beholding as the very beholding holds the individuality up inone's perception.Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptah | Ya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||Respects.Naga Narayana -------------------------------- Hari Om"Insight" only those can give who have had darshanas of Him. Let me therefore state what I have read / heard. During the 2oth century at least three close friends from Soil of India, realised Paramatma and at least 2 had 'darshanas' of God. Sethji Jaidayalji Goendka was earlier "Brahmavaadi" (Striver of Nirgun Niraakar). God, suo motto out of His sweet will, gave 'darshana' to Sethji. Sethji at that time was in Churu (Rajasthan) and because of fever was lying on a cot with a blanket on body. There he got "Chaturbhuj Bhagwaan" Darshana. (A Form of God with four hands) ! When God manifests, no wall or veil can obstruct Him. Sethji got 'romaanch' ( excessive thrill) and 'ashrupaat' (incessant huge flow of tears) . A 'bhava' came in his mind that God wants to tell him" Spread Nishkaam Bhava" in the world. Thereafter he changed from "Brahmavaadi" (Nirgun Nirakar) to "Ishwarvaadi" (Sagun Sakaar) ! But he never preached "yugal upasana" ( twin striving) ! In speaking Truth , Sethji was very famous and well known.Sethji was Founder of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was very close to him. He was elder to Swamiji. Swamiji always very respectfully and affectionately remembered him till the end. Bhaiji ( Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) also had 'darshanas' of God. Whatever God told him, it got published by "Divya Sandesh" ( Divine Message) ! He got command from God of spreading the glory of "Naam Japa" ! Sethji and Bhaiji both were cousins ( their mothers were sisters) !In fact Swamiji also studied and strived in the beginning on "Nirgun Nirakaar" only. Later on , He realised that Bhakti is supreme and final goal. "Brahma" is "abha" (reflection) of Bhagwaan only. The power of feeding and nourishing all is in Paramatma (Ishwar) not in Brahma. By getting Brahma you get completeness but you donot get "Param Prem" ( ever increasing Divine Love) ! "Tattva Jnana" is "Atma Jnana"! After "Atma Jnana" (Self Realisation) , one becomes eligible for "Prem" (Paramatma Jnana) ! In Shrimad Bhagavatam ( 1/7/10) it is said:Those whose 'chijjad granthi' (Jeevahood) has been severed, such 'atmaram munis' ( liberated ) also do selfless/expectationless "nishkaam bhakti"; because the attributes (Gunas) of Bhagwaan are such that they attract people towards them. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram When the desire arose, then there was darshan of Bhagwaan. We cannot behold God in this life, this is not a belief. It is false (artificial). To speak of that which is false, is as good as wasting our time. A devotee is not clever, rather he is by nature sincere and undeceitful. For a devotee to behold God, or to attain Love, can it be in his hands? What God does and does not do, what can man know and discuss about this. Now that we have accepted that we are God's, now what remains in our hands? Whatever is God's will, that alone is our will, and that alone will happen. Is it possible for something else to happen? so be it, Vineet Sarvottam ------------------ Who is eligible to see Parama Atma and what is seeing IT? The Supreme Being isnot an object like a table or chair or Shilp Shetty etc. So seeing IT can not bein the biological and light theory sense. Seeing is understanding or realizingIts Tattva. That is why Lord tells Arjuna Na tu maam sakyase drashtum anena evasva cakshushaa" - 11.8 Gita (Gitaji sounds so aetificial). How do we realize orunderstand Its Tattva? The solution to this problem is in Slokas 11.48, to 55,More in my next Post.Krishna samudrala--------------------- There is no Bhagwan hanging in the sky. Parmatma is all pervasive and cannot be seen. Conversely what is not Bhagwan? But then all things which perish are illusions. Can one behold or have darshan of God? Yes after one has made oneself ready to have darshan, God may manifest in the form visualised by the devotee. However this happens after long periods of meditation after which one gets enlightenment. We have examples of great ones like the Buddha who went through years of meditation before he became enlightened. Also he had to go through a hundred births (Bodhisattavas) before he finally took birth as Siddharth. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! The Q by Moderators is based on the poetry written by Bhandariji. Otherwise Revered Swamiji had answered all the Qs beyond doubt. Bhandariji you starts with: WHEN THE MIND STOPS ASKING ANY Qs. But does mind ever stop? Neither Gita nor any Scriptures have suggested a state like that. Mind may become dispassionate but to STOP ! Unheard of in Spiritual terms at least. Only one Q is genuinely due for deliberation then. Paramatma habitually not breaking a belief. Here the belief is in Him or related with Him only which appears to be referred. Not the funny beliefs which we all carry with reference to the World/ worldly things/ people. Those beliefs Paramatma keeps breaking at astounding intervals. It is only when you form a belief with Paramatma in the picture, that belief is NEVER broken by Him. But, for example...you connect with the world and He will ensure disconnection ! Rely upon any worldly people ....you will get DHOKHA....DHOKHA !! But if you believe with reference to Him, His appointed Demi Gods, ...He will ensure that your belief is strengthened. Therefore, if you do not believe in God...He will not break your belief. But if you believe in world...it is bound to be broken !! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi -------------------- Radhey! Radhey !! Mr. Bhandariji. I am not able to understand anything from the poetry. Naga Narayanaji can help us understand? Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGWhen the Mind stops asking all questionsand in the silent mind,in the joy of being,arises in youthe Ultimate Question, " Who am I ?"the only True Question.............As the birth of the Question, you witnessin awe and wonderNeither waiting for the answer, nor seeking,with the Mind.................When the Mind goes mute ....................and the wonderment keeps expandingdissolving the Mind in Joy..............................In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!!God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks,there is No answer, nariNothing to seekNothing to knowThe question itselfContains the answerHidden In its embraceAnd the answerRemainsEver and ever the QuestionThe answer un-knowable.and so, nari,if your being asks the questionand , having asked,revels in the un-answering Silenceits own sourceits own selfthe not-selfnari would know himselfas the Knower truewho does not knowand yet knows !and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaksnari's head, in reverence, bows.............AUMnarinder bhandari==========================================: Shree Hari:Ram Ram31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla TrayodashiQuestion: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?Answer: There are three points in this -1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there ispeace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan.2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma,then one may behold God and3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to beholdHim, than too you will behold God.If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, Hecan make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan)of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of "I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine" -is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there isno need for anything else.Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)?Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan -Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his ownbeliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge /Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone'sbeliefs.On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothinglacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remainsunder his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining SelfRealization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devoteelies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan.Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance tobeholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this?Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This isbecause there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in lovethat the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love,beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously,uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore aclever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meetingor not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that timetrue love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lovermeets or does not meet, there remains no desire.From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Shree Hari Ram RamPlease share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on -1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram================================== NEW POSTING narayan narayan IN ENGLISH A devotee asked Swamiji - it is said that in every atom there is presence of God and God is everything, of these two what is true? Swamiji said, believing that there is presence of God in every atom and the Truth being that God is All. Turn your mind upside down and leave the unreal (temporary), and start to believe in the real (Eternal, permanent), as Vyasji has said that with buttermilk the Gopis were able to make Bhagwaan Shri Krishna dance, in the same manner God will be present for you. You simply call out to HIm with exclusive sentiments, what to speak of darshan, he will Himself be ever present for you. When losing in love, all complain, if ever you had loved the Lord, then there would not be such complaints. (this may not be translated accurately) Ramchandar IN HINDI swamiji se kisi bhakt ne pucha tha : kahte he kan -kan me bhagwan he or kan-kan he bhagwan he isme shahi kon sa he tho swamiji ne kaha: - kan-kan me bhagwan he ye manyta he or kan-kan he bhagwan he ye hakikat he. aap man ko ulta kardo[nam] phir aap asat ko chod kar sat me vishvash karne lagoge jis tarah vyas ji ne kaha he chhas pe gopiyo ne bhagvan ko nachaya tha us tarah aap ke liye bhi hajir ho jayega. aap ananya bhav se pukaro dharsan kya vo khud hajir rahega aap ke liye. ek arag he aap ke liye. log:- mohobat me har jane per log nasib ki bat karte he kabhi khuda se mohobat ki hoti tho ye sikayat nahi hoti. [ramchandra] -------------- It is always better to keep things simple. 1. One has darshan of God whenever one likes if one chooses to. Since everything in this Universe is contained in God and God is contained in anything that exists in the universe, whatever one sees with one's eyes, dreams or feels or understands is nothing but God. However, if one is not satisfied with that simple realization of God, one can try the complicated way of Darshan : just think of any particular form of God that is best to your liking, concentrate and meditate on that form continuously for hours and minutes, you will be able to see that form arising your heart even if your eyes are closed. That seeing of the form of God in your heart is darshan. A more complicated way to have darshan of God is to study Darshan, i.e., the philosophy contained in the Upanishads and Gita again and again and that Gyan will one day help you have darshan of God in everything that you see or you do not see but you can imagine or feel or touch. 2. God has created the universe, so he has imparted the different gunas, properties, tendencies to different human beings, different animals, different plants and different non-living beings like the Sun or the moon or the planets. This differences in beliefs among people also arises from God Himself. He does not change the beliefs. Beliefs are also his creation and imparted in different persons in different ways. If a particular person's beliefs changes at so,any point of time, that change is also caused by his mechanism. Earlier human believes that the Sun revolves round the Earth, now people believe the reverse. The original belief and the change of belief took place only because of God. At some point Balmiki might not have believed in God, later he came to believe in God. Both situations occurred because of God only. Balmiki, like anyone else in this World,did whatever he was destined to do as per the mechanism of God. 3.. When you realize that everything in this creation including you yourself, is essentially different forms that God assumes, you will consider everything in this creation is an integral part of God, you cannot but love everything including yourself. So, if you have darshan of God, you realize that Love is God and therefore you love everything and everyone. But that love is not attachment or affection or for benefit. That Love is an intense, never-ending way of living in which you remain consciously aware that you are in God every moment of your life and look at all actions of yours and others are nothing but the actions of God. You no more keep a separate identity of yourself but merge yourself with the God. You see nothing as Good or bad, as desirable or undesirable, as different from one another. That is pure love where hate, jealousy, anger, sensual desire, differential attachment or affection does not exist. Basudeb Sen ------------------------------- Namaste Sri Naarad Maharishi and to other Sadaks, Four types of Bakthas Bagavan has said. 1) Aarthi, 2)Arthari, 3) Gyani, 4) Gunatheet. Many people does not fall in any one of this 4. So even if you are Aarthi, you are in direct contact with Bagavan in the first stage of Bakthi. Then slowly one develops to Jhani. Bagavan HIMSELF has said in Geetha that HE can uplift any Jeeva by HIS sankalpa. So if a person fits into any one of this four stages of Bakthi, then Bagavan knows the depth of Bakthi and gives Dharshan. In Visnupuran, there was a saint Govindsamy. He did penance, Bagavan appeared. Samy said, ‘’I don’t want money, family, property etc except YOU”. Bagavan said, “ I have given much wealth, good family and ample money”. Saying so Bagavan disappeared. It says further that Bagavan read only the mind NOT the words. This Samy had in mind all that in mind, but in words he said I don’t want this and that. He could have said like Prahalad, “Oh Bagavan your Dharshan is enough”. So a person can be Aarthi, but in his mind if there should deep craving for God, he gets Dharshan. Persni Suthapa prayed to Maha Vishnu and on Dharshan, they said 3 times that Sri Vishnu should be their child. This was Aarthi with desire. But Dharshan took place. Boon granted. So 1st was Prashni Suthapa, 2cd was Kasyapa and Adithi, 3rd was Vasudev and Devaki. Here also one can note, that boon asked was 3 times and Bagavan to be their child. So Bagavan was child 3 times to them but separated early stage itself. Paramathuma DOES NOT have Raga Devsha (Likes and Dislikes), HE is beyond all this. HE said that HE likes JHANI does not mean HE does not like you and me. It means that Bagavan says that Jhani has elevated beyond worldly matters and 6 bad Gunaas. So Jhani is good child. So a mother will naturally like good child. But at same time she WILL NOT discard the other children, but she will pay little more attention on other knotty children to uplift them. In fact Bagavan HIMSELF has said, that Jhani however will elevate and reach ME, but I (Bagavan) want the other ones to set into Bakthi, so I (Bagavan) will pay more attention to others THAN Jhani. This is Narayaneeyam, Garudapuran, Padmapuran and in Ekadasa Skandh of Srimath Bagavatham Etc. “Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan.’’, it posted is about Jhani only. Sadak could have noted this. The word CLEAVER is meant the other side of Ego. Say a person thinks he is cleaver, which cleverness in that person indicates he is superior to others. To avoid this Cleverness of thought, it is said so. Please bear with me, If I should at mistakes B.Sathyanarayan PRIOR POSTING Hari OmMy this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, you said:"In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes ! When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! We need never be beggars ! I repeat we need never be beggars ! Surrender is not begging ! Prayers (you have referred many in your message) are not beggings. They are exercise of rights by children before their Father. If your grand son or son can be said to be begging before you, then a Bhakta also can be said to be begging before Lord !Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! You can keep desire during sadhan period (because it is need/necessity) but in the end throw the dust as well as broom out of house ! Are you aware, where does such begging lead a man to? He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! Do you agree? It is another matter that God calls such 'Artharthi' also a Bhakta and 'kind' ! A sadhak even 'gives' to God rather than begging. He gives his belief, shraddha, vishwas to God. He gives "Mineness" to God !! Mineness of a particular sadhak towards God can be given to God only by that particular Sadhak and by no body else ! God is deficient to that extent! By giving 'mineness' Bhakta fills that deficiency of God. Why does God help those sadhaks who surrender to Him? Because , God has strength but not 'weakness' ! Thus a sadhak gives to God what God does not have viz weakness ! HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego ( You will lose your fame, O Lord, what will I lose?)This is RIGHT of Bhakta! This is the height to which a Bhakta only can rise ! Come On !Now to say a sadhak is not 'clever' ( inspite of Swamiji using the word 'cleverness' in a positive/innocent sense) merely represents an over wisdom/ negativity/ego and a tendency to criticise for the sake of criticising. This is seeing the world as we are ! Nothing, nothing more than that ! Argue on this, with all of your strength if you can ! Anybody else can join freely in right spirit to argue ! I promise , I will not back away from arguments and will accept the truth , if proved wrong ! Welcome ! Pranaams ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------- WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE 'SUN' DOES NOT RISE FOR EVEN ONE DAY ?!THIS WORLD WILL FREEZE TO DEATH ALL VEGETATION WILL DIE AND THERE WILL BE DISASTER ! IF ANYONE ASKS ME TO SHOW 'GOD' I WILL PROUDLY SHOW THE SUN AND PROCLAIM THAT 'HE' IS MY GOD AS HE LOOKS AFTER THIS WORLD EVERYDAY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD DEPENDS ON THE SUN FOR ITS VERY EXISTENCE!WHEN IT IS WINTER ALL FEEL THE COLD IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION, WHEN IT IS SUMMER ALL FEEL THE WARMTH IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION AND WHEN IT RAINS THE RAIN DROPS FALL ON EVERYBODY IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTE CREED OR RELIGION ! LET US ALL UNITEDLY STAND UP AND SALUTE "THE SUN" AND PROCLAIM HIM AS OUR UNIVERSAL 'GOD' AS THIS SINGLE STEP WILL BURY ALL RELIGIONS AND REMOVE ALL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS . THERE IS NO RELIGION GREATER THAN HUMANITY AND THE 'SUN' GOD CAN UNITE THIS WORLD AND BRING RELIEF TO THE HUMANITY FOREVER. MAKE CONCENTRATED EFFORTS TO UNITE THIS TROUBLED WORLD,SO THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVERAFTER ! K.V.SATYAMURTY------------------------ Jai HanumanOnce Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj said: If somebody asks- How is world ? The reply is : As you are !! If you are good, the world will appear good to you. If you are bad, the world will appear bad to you ! Says Rahimdasji:Taahi Aheer ki chhokarian, chhachhia bhari chhaas pe naach nachavat !(To that Lord who is all powerful, the King of all Kings) - the Gopis of Braj used to make Him dance for a cup of butter milk !What was the strength of Gopis ? Prem ! Desireless Prem! It is desirelessness which gets you God not begging ! No opinions about the same !Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala----- Dandavat pranams.... All glories to Sri Sri guru and Gauranga.....I have been wanting to comment on this discussion......particularly as one sadhak has brought up suggestion that I find to be unpalatable. I saw it written that "to desire to have darshan of Bhagavan is bad".....this I cannot agree with. The Supreme Lord is our friend.....friend means happy times together, loving exchanges (giving gifts, offering nice food stuffs, talking confidentiallly.....as mentioned in verse four of Sri Upadesamrta, by Rupa Goswami.....dadati pratignati, guhyam ahkyati prchatti....bhukte bojayate chaiva, sad vidham pritti laksanam) If we have a dear friend (or Friend), we certainly want to spend time with that Person. It can never be considered bad...... In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, ch 18 verse 54, one very famous verse....brahma-bhutah prasannatma, na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu, mad-bhaktim labhate param....."One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me." In the purport to this verse, given by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, it is stated that , "to the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhuta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further, to become engaged in pure devotional service." In pure devotional service, there are very specific terms and characteristics for loving service in the mood of separation, and in the mood of union. " Vipralambha" rasa is the mellow of separation, and union is called "sambhoga". Both states have very specific symptoms and characteristics....but there cannot be one without the other. One cannot have a mood of separation without the hope and aspiration to one day again be with one's beloved. And when there is union, or time spent together, with Krsna, there is always awareness that again, vipralambha (or viraha) will follow, making the meeting more special. If we accept that God is our friend, we should know that there are different levels of loving relationships....mentioned in the scriptures as santa (neutrality), dasya (servitorship), sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (friendship), and madhurya (conjugal love).. There are certainly different veiwpoints on how to love and serve the Absolute, and I pray I have not offended any person of different belief by my words.....simply I do not wish any sadhak to be thinking that if they want to see their dearmost Friend, it is a bad thing. Even in this world, we desire to see those whom we feel love and affection for....how could it be wrong to wish to see that Person who is eternally our wellwishing companion, guide, beloved; our everything? respectftully, Maha Laksmi Dasi ---------------------------- joy, joy, joy 'witnessing ' the ananda that does not wax or vane'witnessing' the witness of right and wrong .............naga leads narinder into the joy where 'right' and 'wrong ' cease to be .....................only the Natkhat playing His flute the soundless sound of Aum singing the song of Love .............blessed is naga ................. naga no more .....................narayana .......................... narayana no more ..................the ever expanding word that Brahaman is .......................smiling at Himself now as naga .......................... now as narayana ..................ah !joy, joy joy ......O sadhakas true , narinder exhorts you ..................stop seeking outside what is already within you are that tat twam asi ............revel, my friends, in the Mahahvakya .........." Aham Brahamasmi.... Aham Brahamasmi ............... aham brahamasmi "and, IF .......................................................my friends, the 'happenning' does not happen .............. eclipsed by the self that knows not the selfwalk the Path ...............be yourself..................accept yourself .................love yourself ................Karamyoga is the Way Bhakti is the WayGyana-yoga is the Way .......AUMMeditation is the WayAUMnarinder bhandari ----------------- Narain ! Narain !! Shri Sathyanarainji ! You are confusing , in my humble view, between the types of Bhaktas. Your Bhakti is defined in Gita as that of "Aart" or "Artharthi" Bhakti. In this Bhakti in order to get rid of sorrows or in order to get more and more money Bhaktas instead of relying upon the world and worldly people , seek money and relief from sorrows from Bhagwaan. The examples given by you of Gajendra etc are that of Aarta bhaktas. There are Jnani and Curious Bhaktas also! But Paramatma likes Jnani Bhaktas most...and He says so in Gitaji also. Refer Gitaji 7:17. However , I could not understand why you should link the types of Bhaktas with EGO ! I also fail to appreciate such a sharp response by you to the use of word "clever" (word used by Param Shraddheya Swamiji is chatur in His discourse, which was translated to clever). I have no doubt that IF YOU WANT TO REALISE GOD....you have to become Jnani Bhakta...you have to become totally desireless. I am certain and can give you more examples from Scriptures to support this. In fact, desirelessness is PRE REQUISITE for Darshanas of God ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad Maharishi -------------------- Jai Shree Krishna Here the subject was not SAADHAN BHAKTI BUT SADHYA BHAKTI. CLEVER means DAKSHA ( Refer BG 12: 16) ! Note for ever- Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never use a single inappropriate word. Yes! There have been many Bhaktas refusing to ask anything from God. Swami Rupesh Kumar ---------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS is necessary for God Realisation and for Darshanas of God! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS means and includes not desiring even Darshanas of God. Dozens of verses from Gitaji and from Bhagvatam can be cited to prove. There is nothing wrong in Swamiji calling those desireless Bhaktas to be "clever" ! Before UTTARA even knew of Brahmashtra sent by Ashwatthama, Lord Krishna had decided to save Parikshit !! Doesn't the Lord already know what we want/desire? Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Namaste!I have contemplated upon two references:Srimadbhagavadgita/Essence of Yogavaasishtha.After granting Arjuna, mystic vision, he saw 'The Supreme Lord', in his Cosmic Form. Arjuna was not at that point prepared for what he saw, the whole universe in its dynamic form, and was petrified, Sadhaks are acquainted with Ch 11 Bhagavadgita,now refer to Verses 52---54:It is exceedingly difficult to observe this form of Mine. Even the Gods are always,keen to behold it.Neither by study of the Vedas, nor by penance, nor charity, or ritual could I be reviewed in this form, as you have.By unswerving devotion only can I be seen in this form (with four arms) and known in its essence and even its merger, O scorcher of foes.Now I particularly like Swamiji's comment on these verses:Sadhaka-Sanjivani (Eng.) page 1318.Exclusive devotion also means, no dependence on adoration or meditation, or spiritual discipline, for God-realization. Then why to worship the Lord and meditate on Him? These are the means to do away with one's pride. When pride is destroyed, the Lords grace, manifests itself and it is by His grace, that a devotee attains Him.Yogavaasishtha, (Story of Suraghu) Verse 38:On dissolution of the mind and egotism, there irises that greatest delight which which is the manifestation of the Supreme Being, existing in all objects (or living creatures).Love and devotion to Bhagwan, focus to reach a point whereby Divine Grace touches one.Om... Shanti...Mike. (K).---- Dear Sadaks, Swamiji Himself has said to ask Bagavan for love, devotion, faith Etc. There were so many Bakthas craved only for Dharshan of Bagavan. I can quote many. Bagavan has said about Karmiyartha Bakthi, which is conditional expectations of material benefits. But Bagavan HIMSELF has said he is also HIS baktha. The reason being that a man can start with conditional love, but eventually ends up with Nishkama Prema Bakthi (Unconditional, under any circumstances even if one looses his child wife or family, becomes beggar, but that man` s love grows rather than diminishing.) We are separated from GOD due to our Karmas by taking a body. The desire to reach HIM is natural and spontaneous. We are certainly beggars and let Bagavan be our only King. Gopies had desires for Bagavan, Vithur had, so many saints had, in fact so many saints begged Bagavan to liberate them. Examples are numerous, but One for the present. A vaisnavite saint called Kuratharvar begged Bagavan like this, " Oh Bagavan, it seems you saved that Elephant Gajender from Crocodile. Normally Elephant is egoistic, but I have SIX fold ego than that Gajendra that is Kama-Krodha-Loba-Madha Etc. Wont you save me from this clutches of this 6 fold arrogance." The knowledge of God is in front of us is mostly dangerous. Example: Sri Krishna pretended to have headache. Naradh rishi came and inquired. Bagavan said HIS head ache will go on applying the dust from the feet of any Baktha. Naradh said he cannot oblige as it sin to do so. Rumani Matha, Sathybama Etc said the same. Because they all had knowledge that the Bagavan is in front. But the Sri Krishna said to bring the dust from the feet of Gopies. Gopies trampled mud with Love and gave a bag of dust saying that they are ready to do anything to releave Bagavan headache. Kuchela went to beg Bagavan. Sri Hanuman begged Sri Ram to give him undisturbed bakthi on Ram Naam. Kunthi begged Bagavan. Uthara begged Bagavan to save her child (Parikhit) from in womb. Kunthi begged Bagavan at the end to give her sorrows always. Bishma begged. In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge. Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan. A devote is never clever. The thought of being cleaver is enough to put us down. This cleverness is seen by others but not by the one who is cleaver. One Example: Markanda Maha Rishi was doing penance in Badrinath. Sri Vishnu appeared and said, " Markandeya you done good penance and I appeared. Ask me a boon." Markanda asked Bagavan to show what is Vishnu Maya. Sri Vishnu showed Maya later part of life. The Sri Vishnu asked Markandeya, "Are you happy". Markada said, "Oh Bagavan it was YOU wish to appear to me and YOUR wish to give me boon and YOUR wish that I did penance and nothing I have done". Sri Vishnu said, "There is no Ego absolutely and I bless you". Then Bagavan Sankara and Maatha Paarvathi also came there and blessed Markandeya. B.Sathyanarayan --- Hari Om'Prem' only is 'Radha/Gopi Tattva' ! Paramatma is hungry for Prem. In Prem 'bhava' (inner sentiment) is only of giving, giving and giving. In Prem there is 'nitya yoga' ( always connection) ! Both Darshans and Antardhyaan (connection and disconnection) are in 'nitya yoga' ! The bliss which you get say in this attraction : "This watch is mine , I should get it" ( viz in Prem) that bliss is not there in the knowledge that 'this is watch'( viz in Darshanas) ! In Prem , the knowledge becomes tasteless !The examples given by me of Sethji and Bhaiji getting Darshanas , was examples of their 'not desiring Darshanas' but getting Darshanas because God so willed ! God wanted His work to be done by them ( spreading of 'Nishkaam bhava' and 'naam japa' respectively) ! You can rise to those heights, in human life. Any desire is bad even when it is desire of God Himself. Because God spread His hands before Baali , He got the name of 'Vaaman' ( small) !! Desire instantly makes you small !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------------------------- Jai HanumanMaharajji said:The bliss of union (darshana) with God is indescribable. But in 'viyog' with Him also there is similar bliss. In Yoga (connection) , there is Viyoga (Disconnection) , and in Viyoga there is Yoga ! How?In yoga there is no 'tripti' (satisfaction) and in viyoga, there is no 'vismruti' ( forgetting) !! This state arises only in Prem, not in Jnana ! In Jnana, there is indivisible Ananda, while in Prem with indivisible Ananda there is also continuously increasing Ananda - Dine Dine Navam Navam ( Day Day New New) ! Thirst is not different from element called water. But Ananda is in thirst not in water! In the worldly thirst there is sorrow, but in Divine thirst there is Ananda of highest order! Only Premi Bhaktas can know this , not Jnani Bhaktas.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ------------------------------- Nishaji,Narinderji's inimitable poetic revelation on The Self (and the NOT-SELF!) doesnot need my interpretation and my interpretation does not suffice to explain thedepths of such a blissful experience either. I salute the absolute reverence andappreciation that springs out from his core existence toward his Guruvakaya aswell as the Shrutivaakya with the sweetness unique to his truthful experience.What I understand from his excalamtions is nothing different from what Iunderstand from the Upanishads …Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyahNa medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |You cannot 'behold' The God (or The Self) as the very act of beholding belongsto the mechanisms that enable the same - mind, senses, body, etc. The Self orThe Absolute cannot be fathomed by any of such instruments as they are NOTdesigned for beholding anything beyond them:Paraanchikhaani vyatriNaatsvayambhooh |Tasmaatparaangpashyati naantraatman ||But yet, when the same instruments suspend their excitations, The Self bloomsitself in the very instrument because The Self is inseparable from any. THATblooms in the one who dissolves in THAT unconditionally … when it blooms atone's core being, it blooms in every atom of one's existence:Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyahTasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanum svaam ||That supreme state is when all your cognitive opparatus transcends its ownlimits by coming to its natural state of silence as such. THE SILENCE is theonly fathomable solution to one who looks for The Absolute ... but, beware thatTHE SILNCE talked of here is not the silence that you and me think of ... it isTHAT beyond all our congnitive and incognitive limits:Yadaa panchaavatishThante gnyaanaani manasaa saha |Buddhishcha na vicheshTate taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||The more you try to explore and identify what The God is, more cocooned you getin the resulting beliefs. Never try to fathom what THAT could be - one, youcannot; two, you need not. You, just like anything else in this univerese, isalso THAT. Therefore, disengage from all your beliefs and notions to be what youare ... then YOU ARE THAT (Tattvamasi!):Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasyana chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam |Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptahya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||THAT is NOT what any mind could ever fathom … think of the very basis withinwhich the very mind is fathomed … think of THAT within everything known as wellas unknown could ever be fathomed ... verily THAT ALONE IS THE BRAHMAN. Neverdelude yourself to believe in anything else as THAT. Just like the senses orthoughts cannot fathom the mind in which they are fathomed, the mind also cannotfathom THAT within which it is fathomed:Yanmanasaa na manute yena aahurmano matam |Tadeva brahmam tadviddhi nedam yadidamupaasate ||We can keep revelling in the ocean of the abundant knowledge overflowing fromour great scriptures and saints … but, have you fathomed THAT with all these?ALL remains waste unless we do experience what is taught ... thousands of yearsof hearing and talking is not enough as Swamiji quotes,Baavara bed bidusha baavariya pothee pustak phandaa ||Therefore, as Narinderji suggests himself, do put an end to all the questionsand do experience the silence there of … yadaa panchaavatishThante … tadevabrahmam taddviddhi … THE SILENCE beyond all our cognition is THE BRAHMAN, THEABSOLUTE, THE TRUTH, THE BHAGAVAAN, THE KRISHNA, ...In symmary, whatever that is transacted through one's cognitive mechanism cannotbe THAT. Only when the cognitive inquisition halts, THAT reveals in fullblossom. I think that is what Narinderji means. Narinderji, pl. correct me if Iam misled.Respects.Naga Narayana ------- Dear Geetha Devotees, I am fortunate to meet a lady farmer -Thavudammal who has Dharsan of Lord krishna 3 times. She is maintaining about 200 cattle in her farm in avillage near Sivakasi in Tamil Nadu. .First Dharsan was Lords feet alone. Second dharsan of Lord as a small child- Bala krishna. Third time as a teenager with flute . Then regularly or some occasions she is able to interact with Krishna and recieve correct knowledge or answers from Him. Accordingly she changed her diet into satvic without vegetables, with out acidic food, worshipping only Krishna , not disposing aged cows or bulls but maintaining till the point of death, feeding all creatures including rats and dogs .She is alos giving due respect or follow horoscopic way of life according to dasa ,Bhutti and start important work on auspicious days. She is convinced of past birth/ karma and recieved insights of many person about their last birth or karma. She is an example of true saranagathi . This type of way of life certainly bring such elevation to those who follows - which is more practical for a wordly life of devotees rather than reading a lot with out adhering the truth or following other spiritual paths which may be suitable for sanniyasis or bramacharis. Ultimaytely those are blessed who is able to recive knowledge or answers or directions from Him for even day today affairs. This is more less a state like Ramakrishna paramhamsa able to speak with Kalidevi and follow accordingly. It requires Geeta way of life . When we are fully adhering simple life with high spiritual values certainly we are nearing Lord and one day or other He may answer our needs whith accumulation of Punniya karma by doing good deeds or so. With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, ---------------------------- I m very much wonderstruck at the dreams of Sadhakas who aspire for Divine Desires just like CHHOO MANTRA. I would request Devotees to go inside the bathroom for viewing their clear face in the mirror. Sometimes mirror is dust covered, sometimes there is no proper light, just to see once own face in the mirror. Like wise Sashaka desireous of "BHAGWAN DARSHAN" have to clean / purify his own inner screen of mind where one could precieve the image "MAN MELLA TAN UJLA" and have to purify his "MAL and WIKHEP" i.e. purify his actions "KARMAS" give up one's own undue desires "TRISHNAIN" and control vikars "KAAM" + "KIRODH" + "LOBH" + "MOH" + AHANKAR". to identitify with HM. As I have read and understnd from the scriptures, it takes many births to be able to have "BHAGWAN DARSHANAS". Bondage of ATMA & SUBTLE BODY is very complecated.This Sansara is very strange, beyond ordinary understanding, every jigyasu has to look within in confirmity with "VEDAS" and "GITAJI" teachings. Hari Motwani ------------------------------- ================================ PRIOR POSTING Hari OmAny desire is bad, including for even Darshanas of God ! Necessity is of "mineness" with Paramatma , He should be likeable to/ liked by you. A true Lover nevers seeks reciprocation. Our goal has to be "Love" (Prem) with Him. This 'Love' automatically arises in you due to 'mineness' with Paramatma ! There is no 'action'/ 'effort' at your end. Hence important is your mineness with Him not His darshanas. Any demand is bad and at the point of arising itself lowers you- makes you a beggar !! In any case, this world is first incarnation ( Avataar) of Paramatma ! Oh ! What a bliss it should impart to you, if you start seeing God in every one? God in front of you all the time, always ... ! Where then is the need for being a beggar? We are the children of the King of all Kings !! We are not beggars ! We are Lovers !! We are Royal Prince !!!Hence Swamiji said -"Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting." Lord Hanuman preferred to remain in world and decided that wherever there is 'Raam Katha' in the world , He shall be present. Characters like Kaak Bhusandi in Ramayana (dozens of examples can be given) sought "Bhakti" from God when they got Darshanas. What is Bhakti? Liking the God ! What else ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------ I have a desire to see Bhagavan Ram. When I delve deeper, that desire is not born due to love towards Ram. If I truly loved Ram, then I would be extremely eager to remember Him, see Him etc.I want to see Ram so that I can think of myself as great devotee. It is because of the ego.I want to feel special.Anyways, that is the reason for me to see Ram. When ego subsides, then I don't have desire to see Ram.Ram is everywhere and in everyone. I just want to remember Him, reduce my attachment to this world and increase my attachment to Ram.If I follow above, then Ram will take care of the rest. (yoga ksema vahamyaham) Gaurav Mittal ------------- I would like to thank Sri Vyasji for this wonderful email. What is "yugal upasana"? Vyasji or others, could you elaborate on that? Thank you very much.Ram Ram,Gaurav Mittal -------------------------- beauteously, have nagajee, pratapjee, vyas jee, vineetjee, and, all the sadhaks of Joy and Love that is God, shared their experience .................. shared their experiencing ................................. experiencing is Real................... the experiencer and the experience arise on either end ........ loving is real, the lover and the beloved arise as the Joy of loving ...................... dancing is Real.............. when dancing stops, the dancer and the dance are no more !!!!! AUM narinder bhandari ------------------ SOMEONE rightly said " in hindi" EKEY SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB JAYE i respect these words very much till date though almost 18 years have passed since i heard these Rahul ------------------------- Jai HanumanI am not fully convinced reg: the statement made by Anirudhji Joshi re : Belief. Why a distinction should be drawn between what relates with Daddy the Great and what does not relate with Him? "Tashya tashyachalam shraddhaam " stated in BG 7:21 ?For millions and trillions of eons , the Jeeva is loitering ! Had Daddy been interfering in their beliefs, Jeevas would not have sufferred for that long ! Swamiji would never forget to qualify a statement, if need be or here He is talking only with reference to a state of Devotee in front of Daddy the Great, the demand of Devotee ? Only with reference to that demand ? May be Joshiji is referring to a 'stupidity' as a 'belief' or may be he is not !!Then there is "Bhootani yanti Bhootejya" referred in BG 9:25 ! What do Learned Sadhaks have to say ?Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------------- Fellow learners,I am immensely pleased with Hari Shankara Deo. If one wishes to see the SupremeBeing, It can be found both inside and outside, it is far away and very close toyou, It moves and is static. It is present in the smallest sub atomic particleand at the same time it can occupy the whole space.(refer to Eesaavaasyopanishatand chapter 8 of Bg). It is as Shri Deo said, is all pervasive. "Visvam Vishnuh"is the first of countless names of It. Mokhs or release is not obtained fromreading scriptures, listening to discourse etc (Refer to Kathopanishat 2.23. Onehas to become Sarva bhoota hite rataa, sarvatra sama buddhayah and sarvaBhootaatma Bhootaatma to become eligible for Brahma Bhooyaaya Kalpate. All theseare terms used in Guta as prerequisites to "see" the Supreme Being.Seein a stone in certain shape can nver be equivalent to seeing the SupremeBeing. It is like seeing a musquito that once landed on an Elephant and claimingthat the musquito is Elephant. Kindly refer to 4.19 of Sveta Asva taraUpanishat, whch says Na tasya pratima Asti. Ofcourse it can be inter preted asThee is nothing equal to it. TRY TO SEEIT EVERY WHERE AND IN EVERY ONE. tHEN ALONE ONE CAN "SEE" IT.Krishna Samudrala --------------------------------SATIETY is a bliss for those who never seek it Rahul ================================== PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one is overwhelmed by reverence for whatever IS, one is beholding God! If one is overwhelmed by Unconditional Love, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by the Silence of mind, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by Joy that knows no cause, one is beholding God!One is beholding God only because God is beholding such a ONE!Namaskar..................Pratap Bhatt =========================== 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?One could behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God) … when nothing else (in otherwords, absolutely nothing) is held in one's vision (Darshan) … when one does nothave any desire to behold anything in one's vision as such … when any vision andevery vision becomes the same ... when the very desire to behold anything isdissolved completely.One 'beholds' the Bhagavaan when lets oneself 'beheld' completely in THE SAME... when the difference between the individual and Bhagavaan is completelymitigated ... when any difference between the individual and anything else iscompletely mitigated ... when the very duality, the differences between theperceived objects and worlds, is obliterated at its core.Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasya | na chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam ||2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.The belief of beholding the Bhagavaan is the paradox of its nemesis - belief ofnot beholding the Bhagavaan. Both are equally beheld within the Bhagavaan andboth are equally inadequate to behold the Bhagavaan as well. How can theALL-INCLUSIVE Bhagavaan destroy anything at all?! Nothing can be taken away fromHim ... even He cannot throw anything away!! All beliefs are acceptable to theBhagavaan as they all are absorbed within Him eternally ... yet, no belief canencompass (behold) Him as they all remain eternally momentary.PoorNamadah poorNamidam poorNaat poorNamudhachyate |PoorNasya poorNamadaaya poorNamevaavashishyate ||3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Therefore, a vigilant devotee would never entertains any idea of beholding theBhagavaan (by experience and awareness) … just lets oneself dissolve in theocean of life as one with the same … merging in the Bhagavaan at once and oncefor all. This absolute merger that does not leave any trace of the individualback is verily THE LOVE that is talked of in great awe here. A devotee wouldonly look forward to the dissolution of one's own identity forever ... nothingelse ... no more beholding as the very beholding holds the individuality up inone's perception.Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptah | Ya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||Respects.Naga Narayana -------------------------------- Hari Om"Insight" only those can give who have had darshanas of Him. Let me therefore state what I have read / heard. During the 2oth century at least three close friends from Soil of India, realised Paramatma and at least 2 had 'darshanas' of God. Sethji Jaidayalji Goendka was earlier "Brahmavaadi" (Striver of Nirgun Niraakar). God, suo motto out of His sweet will, gave 'darshana' to Sethji. Sethji at that time was in Churu (Rajasthan) and because of fever was lying on a cot with a blanket on body. There he got "Chaturbhuj Bhagwaan" Darshana. (A Form of God with four hands) ! When God manifests, no wall or veil can obstruct Him. Sethji got 'romaanch' ( excessive thrill) and 'ashrupaat' (incessant huge flow of tears) . A 'bhava' came in his mind that God wants to tell him" Spread Nishkaam Bhava" in the world. Thereafter he changed from "Brahmavaadi" (Nirgun Nirakar) to "Ishwarvaadi" (Sagun Sakaar) ! But he never preached "yugal upasana" ( twin striving) ! In speaking Truth , Sethji was very famous and well known.Sethji was Founder of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was very close to him. He was elder to Swamiji. Swamiji always very respectfully and affectionately remembered him till the end. Bhaiji ( Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) also had 'darshanas' of God. Whatever God told him, it got published by "Divya Sandesh" ( Divine Message) ! He got command from God of spreading the glory of "Naam Japa" ! Sethji and Bhaiji both were cousins ( their mothers were sisters) !In fact Swamiji also studied and strived in the beginning on "Nirgun Nirakaar" only. Later on , He realised that Bhakti is supreme and final goal. "Brahma" is "abha" (reflection) of Bhagwaan only. The power of feeding and nourishing all is in Paramatma (Ishwar) not in Brahma. By getting Brahma you get completeness but you donot get "Param Prem" ( ever increasing Divine Love) ! "Tattva Jnana" is "Atma Jnana"! After "Atma Jnana" (Self Realisation) , one becomes eligible for "Prem" (Paramatma Jnana) ! In Shrimad Bhagavatam ( 1/7/10) it is said:Those whose 'chijjad granthi' (Jeevahood) has been severed, such 'atmaram munis' ( liberated ) also do selfless/expectationless "nishkaam bhakti"; because the attributes (Gunas) of Bhagwaan are such that they attract people towards them. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram When the desire arose, then there was darshan of Bhagwaan. We cannot behold God in this life, this is not a belief. It is false (artificial). To speak of that which is false, is as good as wasting our time. A devotee is not clever, rather he is by nature sincere and undeceitful. For a devotee to behold God, or to attain Love, can it be in his hands? What God does and does not do, what can man know and discuss about this. Now that we have accepted that we are God's, now what remains in our hands? Whatever is God's will, that alone is our will, and that alone will happen. Is it possible for something else to happen? so be it, Vineet Sarvottam ------------------ Who is eligible to see Parama Atma and what is seeing IT? The Supreme Being isnot an object like a table or chair or Shilp Shetty etc. So seeing IT can not bein the biological and light theory sense. Seeing is understanding or realizingIts Tattva. That is why Lord tells Arjuna Na tu maam sakyase drashtum anena evasva cakshushaa" - 11.8 Gita (Gitaji sounds so aetificial). How do we realize orunderstand Its Tattva? The solution to this problem is in Slokas 11.48, to 55,More in my next Post.Krishna samudrala--------------------- There is no Bhagwan hanging in the sky. Parmatma is all pervasive and cannot be seen. Conversely what is not Bhagwan? But then all things which perish are illusions. Can one behold or have darshan of God? Yes after one has made oneself ready to have darshan, God may manifest in the form visualised by the devotee. However this happens after long periods of meditation after which one gets enlightenment. We have examples of great ones like the Buddha who went through years of meditation before he became enlightened. Also he had to go through a hundred births (Bodhisattavas) before he finally took birth as Siddharth. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! The Q by Moderators is based on the poetry written by Bhandariji. Otherwise Revered Swamiji had answered all the Qs beyond doubt. Bhandariji you starts with: WHEN THE MIND STOPS ASKING ANY Qs. But does mind ever stop? Neither Gita nor any Scriptures have suggested a state like that. Mind may become dispassionate but to STOP ! Unheard of in Spiritual terms at least. Only one Q is genuinely due for deliberation then. Paramatma habitually not breaking a belief. Here the belief is in Him or related with Him only which appears to be referred. Not the funny beliefs which we all carry with reference to the World/ worldly things/ people. Those beliefs Paramatma keeps breaking at astounding intervals. It is only when you form a belief with Paramatma in the picture, that belief is NEVER broken by Him. But, for example...you connect with the world and He will ensure disconnection ! Rely upon any worldly people ....you will get DHOKHA....DHOKHA !! But if you believe with reference to Him, His appointed Demi Gods, ...He will ensure that your belief is strengthened. Therefore, if you do not believe in God...He will not break your belief. But if you believe in world...it is bound to be broken !! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi -------------------- Radhey! Radhey !! Mr. Bhandariji. I am not able to understand anything from the poetry. Naga Narayanaji can help us understand? Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGWhen the Mind stops asking all questionsand in the silent mind,in the joy of being,arises in youthe Ultimate Question, " Who am I ?"the only True Question.............As the birth of the Question, you witnessin awe and wonderNeither waiting for the answer, nor seeking,with the Mind.................When the Mind goes mute ....................and the wonderment keeps expandingdissolving the Mind in Joy..............................In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!!God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks,there is No answer, nariNothing to seekNothing to knowThe question itselfContains the answerHidden In its embraceAnd the answerRemainsEver and ever the QuestionThe answer un-knowable.and so, nari,if your being asks the questionand , having asked,revels in the un-answering Silenceits own sourceits own selfthe not-selfnari would know himselfas the Knower truewho does not knowand yet knows !and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaksnari's head, in reverence, bows.............AUMnarinder bhandari==========================================: Shree Hari:Ram Ram31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla TrayodashiQuestion: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?Answer: There are three points in this -1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there ispeace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan.2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma,then one may behold God and3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to beholdHim, than too you will behold God.If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, Hecan make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan)of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of "I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine" -is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there isno need for anything else.Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)?Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan -Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his ownbeliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge /Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone'sbeliefs.On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothinglacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remainsunder his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining SelfRealization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devoteelies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan.Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance tobeholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this?Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This isbecause there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in lovethat the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love,beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously,uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore aclever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meetingor not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that timetrue love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lovermeets or does not meet, there remains no desire.From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Shree Hari Ram RamPlease share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on -1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram================================== NEW POSTING Dear Respected Contributors and Readers;A comment or two on the previous postings if I may..There is definitely a 'sadhya' or goal for each application of yoga. Not that karma yoga, jnana or gyana yoga and bhakti yoga yield the same results. Each method has its respective process, application and destination such that one who is engaged in karma-yoga will achieve the higher planetary systems as there are still material desires as was the case with Dhruva Maharaja . When one realizes the futility of the material sphereas pointed out by Shree Krishna it the Gita 8.16 he will relinquish his attachment for temporary comfort.The same is true of gyana yoga in the sense that although the person is detached from material gain, still without a concept of the Supreme Person and His abode he achieves the impersonal realms known as the Brahmajyoti or border between Martyaloka and Vaikuntha. Thus said our post from Narinder should reallyhave read ' Karamyoga is the way to Swargaloka, Gyanayoga is the way to the impersonal Brahman (spiritual homogeneousness) and Bhaktiyoga is the way to the Lord's personal abode. The later obviously supercedes the former two and for this reason the Gita stresses on bhakti as mentioned particularly in Gita 18.55, 'bhaktya mam abhijanati'. Krishna Bhagavan says 'Bhakti' here as the path to success. Thus Naarad who also posted on this subject would better state that Bhakti Yoga is the way to realize God to be true to Lord Krishna's dictates on the matter.Krishna Prema Bhakti Ki Jaya!Avadhuta --------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Brothers, we desire to behold (have darshan) of God (Bhagwaan, Paramatma) and darshan does not happen, is an impossibility. It happens in an instant. If however you desire not God (Bhagwaan) , rather if you desire to behold whatever is the form of God (Bhagwaan) that you have in your mind, then brothers, that is not in your hands, but it is in God's hands. So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ===================================== Dear Sadaks, "It is said that in every atom there is presence of God and God is everything", as said by Sri Ramachandra. Is very correct. Sant Gnaneswar was asked the same question by Kasi Vidvans and said, "Is there Bagavan in a Buffalo that was just crossing and can it say Vedas as you say Bagavan present in all ". Sant made the Buffalo speak. Another Sant was asked by a cowherd man that if can say some mantra and he also can see Bagavan. The sant said a Mantra which meat in Sanskrit, Buffalo head. The cowherd man said the mantra to his heart and saw Bagavan before the Sant could see. Both these examples are there in Scripts with details of persons name and places. What mattered here was VISWASS (Faith) in total surrender to God. So God was there in Buffalo NOT to ordinary man or a slaughterer. The extreme love and faith which makes one see God in all. But all in the world is perishable. Bagavan in Geetha has said, "I am in everything but I am not them". Which means Bagavan can give Dharshan in anything (May be in a tree) but HE is not tree. "with buttermilk the Gopis were able to make Bhagwaan Shri Krishna dance" said by Sri Ramachandra. Can anyone make Sri Krishna so. Yes. Anyone who has Niskama Prema Bakthi can do. It is not the butter milk. Yudhava after visiting Virdhavan and meeting Gopies, reaches Mathura and sitting by side of Bagavan, folds his hands saying Namaskar in the direction of Virdhavan. Bagavan asks Vudhava that why he is turning in a particular direction to say Namaskar. Vudhava said, " Namaskar to that Gopies". Even in Ekadasa Skand of Srimath Bagavath Bagavan praises Gopies Bakthi which HE say absolutely pure and unconditional. (Nish Kama Prema Bakthi) B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Dear Sadaks and Sri Vyasji, My this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, Never ever I consider any argument unhealthy, particularly with Sri Vyasji, Sri Pratabji, Sri Mikeji and all others"Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."what I posted Normally in this world, when a person is son of a minister Ego shows up. Similarly in richness, in knowledge, skill etc Ego pops in. This we are seeing day to day. Sanakathi Saints of Bramaji when at the doors of Vaikunt, their ego popped in. Akroora took Samatha diamond stone from Sri Krishna due to Ego. So I thought, better be as a beggar rather than thinking of I am the prince of Bagavan. As far I am concerned when my humbleness will go and Ego comes I don't know. Mother Sathiya Bama and Sri Balramji brother of Sri Krishna was in highest of Ego. So came Krishna Hanuman Yud. Besides Swamiji speech note was there few months ago, saying that we have to ask Bagavan for HIS grace, kindness, to give Bakthi Etc. Sri Pratabji also read that and replied to me. In Geetha, Bagavan refers a person praying HIM for material benefits as Kamyartha Baktha. Bagavan did not say only "Kamyarthan." But added "Baktha' to it, as HE treats him alike. Since I am in this world, I thought, I should beg Bagavan NOT materialistic things, but for HIS grace, guidance, care Etc so that I am not tangled in worldly matters. Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Gopies begged at the feet of Bagavan that HE should not leave Virdhavan. Droupati begged Sri Krishna while she was disrobed. Kunthi virtually begged Sri Krishna to give her a boon that sorrows always comes to her. Kuchela begged Sri Krishna with his tears to treat him as ordinarily rather than princely way. Yogiraj & Saint Durvasa begged Bagavan Shiva first and then Sri Vishnu to save him from the clutches of Suderson Chakra trying to kill him, due to cursing Raja Agarish. There are many more saints. All of them never kept quite in their troubles thinking that Sri Krishna knows what is happening and no need to cry for HIS help. Who else can we depend on. Whether I think I am beggar or prince of Bagavan, it does have atom of an effect. If Bagavan thinks I am HIS own, only that matters. In Geetha I think there is a place where Bagavan says about this. I shall search and post to benefit all. Sri Vyasji what you said is perfect, "Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes !" Yes Sir Because of that glass only I want to be beggar in my personal opinion. Why do one pray? To release him from bondages and take him to Bagavan feet. Prayer what I think is, saying Slokas, Mantras, doing Japas Etc where one does not ask the fruits of it or for any help. Bagavan says in Geetha "do your Karma and do not think of fruits". That is prayer. But when asked for something, it is begging. But when these bakthas or saints ask for something as said above, is begging. When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! Sri Vyasji. We have to think this in each and every action and deed and thoughts that we are sons of King of Kings and do them perfectly that our father Bagavan will like it. Any mis-deed, thought, action will not be liked by our father Bagavan WHO is Alukdruk (Never winks). In Narayaneeyam Sant Narayana Battadri begs Bagavan by says "PANVAGUAPATHE" (King of Kings) to relieve him from paralytic stroke. In Visnusahasranama there is a word "Amara Prabu" (King of Demi Gods). But Sri Bishmaji begged Sri Krishna at his lying on bed of arrows. Normally son/daughter begs ONLY when they commit sin or grave mistakes. They request to be pardon. Children beg the diseased parents on the day of Shardha (Death anniversary of parent) to forgive them for mistakes done knowingly or unknowingly. But normally children demand and we give them. Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! Sri Vyasji here also you are right. But small rectification. Durva left his parents and did penance like nobody did. Sri Vishnu appeared. On seeing Bagavan the desire Vanished. It is Sri Vishnu reminds him of the purpose of penance. Durva was with certain desire Sir you know. Desire disappears by itself on Bagavan Dharshan. Many example are there. Here also Durva asks (Begs) Bagavan that he should not get ego while traveling on elephant to become princes king "He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! ". Here this man begs for more money to donate rather than keeping for himself. This is unselfish desire. But it is desire which Bagavan says in Geetha it (Desire of fire) grows like pouring Ghee in fire. Then it is Tathuvamasi, because that man desire grows and he becomes THAT (Very rich Man in next birth) like thinking of Deer , became deer. HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! Human birth I thought was cleansing ones own Karmas rather than having desire of giving to the power of 3. 3 times Suthapa and Pirshni asked boon for Sri Vishnu to be their child. They took 2 more births. Never have the thought that human birth is for giving. Giver is Bagavan. We are HIS servants or postman or messengers. What one hand gives let the other NOT know is saying. Because you are not the giver. Once the thought comes we are givers, there comes "I" In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Bagavan Vamana took roop as Bhramin not as any other caste human. Only Bhramins have right to beg (Yachaga) by sastras. Besides Bagavan grew very fast in days and disappeared in days. Bagavan Vamana after taking all his wealth from King Bali, crushed him to patal lok. Why such an act, that too by Bagavan? Crushing one who gave. My real humble thinking, "BECAUSE BALI THOUGHT HE WAS THE GIVER". Forgive Sri Vasji if my comment is wrong. It can read there that Bagavan gave boon to king Bali that HE will protect him at Patal Lok. What we give fruits, flowers etc to God can it be said, that we are givers. Bagavan is very clear in Geetha, "Patram, Pushpam. Palam, Thoyam---" and HE says that person is HIS Baktha. Can it be called that Bagavan asking us these and we are giver? The meaning is elaborate and Mediator asked me to be brief. Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? It is true. Because I forget him in this world of pleasure and desires. But by HIS Karuniya is awaits you to realize and say it is only YOU. Nothing but surrender. Rest HE says HE will take care as said in Geetha. Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego Bagavan cannot loose HIS fame. He is Prema Swaroop. Here Tukaram Sant gave meaning. Of Bagavan what will other think of YOU as this Baktha is crying, whether YOU are there or not. For me I have nothing to loose as I have nothing (Fame, dignity Etc). That Love on Bagavan only HE likes, rather than for ages many abused HIM. The abusers SIR you know, Sisubal, Pounderaka Vasudev, Kans, Ravan, Hiranyakasipu Etc. HE does not care what these sinned ones shout. HE is above Raga & Duvesh. HE only sees what is in your heart says in depth rather than in your words from mouth. That is why HE tests HIS bakthas to see in depth Bakthas heart. Like Baktha Gora after trampling his child in mud, he continued saying Vital. Such Love is unconditional and pure. THIS is HOW we should think of the meaning what Swamiji said. SADAKS- We can note in many slokas sung by great saints, at last lines saying, "Knowingly or unknowingly if I had done any mistakes Of Bagavan forgive me" So do I say to all Sadaks to pardon me in my mistakes in this posting. B.Sathyanarayan --------------- narayan narayan IN ENGLISH A devotee asked Swamiji - it is said that in every atom there is presence of God and God is everything, of these two what is true? Swamiji said, believing that there is presence of God in every atom and the Truth being that God is All. Turn your mind upside down and leave the unreal (temporary), and start to believe in the real (Eternal, permanent), as Vyasji has said that with buttermilk the Gopis were able to make Bhagwaan Shri Krishna dance, in the same manner God will be present for you. You simply call out to HIm with exclusive sentiments, what to speak of darshan, he will Himself be ever present for you. When losing in love, all complain, if ever you had loved the Lord, then there would not be such complaints. (this may not be translated accurately) Ramchandar IN HINDI swamiji se kisi bhakt ne pucha tha : kahte he kan -kan me bhagwan he or kan-kan he bhagwan he isme shahi kon sa he tho swamiji ne kaha: - kan-kan me bhagwan he ye manyta he or kan-kan he bhagwan he ye hakikat he. aap man ko ulta kardo[nam] phir aap asat ko chod kar sat me vishvash karne lagoge jis tarah vyas ji ne kaha he chhas pe gopiyo ne bhagvan ko nachaya tha us tarah aap ke liye bhi hajir ho jayega. aap ananya bhav se pukaro dharsan kya vo khud hajir rahega aap ke liye. ek arag he aap ke liye. log:- mohobat me har jane per log nasib ki bat karte he kabhi khuda se mohobat ki hoti tho ye sikayat nahi hoti. [ramchandra] -------------- It is always better to keep things simple. 1. One has darshan of God whenever one likes if one chooses to. Since everything in this Universe is contained in God and God is contained in anything that exists in the universe, whatever one sees with one's eyes, dreams or feels or understands is nothing but God. However, if one is not satisfied with that simple realization of God, one can try the complicated way of Darshan : just think of any particular form of God that is best to your liking, concentrate and meditate on that form continuously for hours and minutes, you will be able to see that form arising your heart even if your eyes are closed. That seeing of the form of God in your heart is darshan. A more complicated way to have darshan of God is to study Darshan, i.e., the philosophy contained in the Upanishads and Gita again and again and that Gyan will one day help you have darshan of God in everything that you see or you do not see but you can imagine or feel or touch. 2. God has created the universe, so he has imparted the different gunas, properties, tendencies to different human beings, different animals, different plants and different non-living beings like the Sun or the moon or the planets. This differences in beliefs among people also arises from God Himself. He does not change the beliefs. Beliefs are also his creation and imparted in different persons in different ways. If a particular person's beliefs changes at so,any point of time, that change is also caused by his mechanism. Earlier human believes that the Sun revolves round the Earth, now people believe the reverse. The original belief and the change of belief took place only because of God. At some point Balmiki might not have believed in God, later he came to believe in God. Both situations occurred because of God only. Balmiki, like anyone else in this World,did whatever he was destined to do as per the mechanism of God. 3.. When you realize that everything in this creation including you yourself, is essentially different forms that God assumes, you will consider everything in this creation is an integral part of God, you cannot but love everything including yourself. So, if you have darshan of God, you realize that Love is God and therefore you love everything and everyone. But that love is not attachment or affection or for benefit. That Love is an intense, never-ending way of living in which you remain consciously aware that you are in God every moment of your life and look at all actions of yours and others are nothing but the actions of God. You no more keep a separate identity of yourself but merge yourself with the God. You see nothing as Good or bad, as desirable or undesirable, as different from one another. That is pure love where hate, jealousy, anger, sensual desire, differential attachment or affection does not exist. Basudeb Sen ------------------------------- Namaste Sri Naarad Maharishi and to other Sadaks, Four types of Bakthas Bagavan has said. 1) Aarthi, 2)Arthari, 3) Gyani, 4) Gunatheet. Many people does not fall in any one of this 4. So even if you are Aarthi, you are in direct contact with Bagavan in the first stage of Bakthi. Then slowly one develops to Jhani. Bagavan HIMSELF has said in Geetha that HE can uplift any Jeeva by HIS sankalpa. So if a person fits into any one of this four stages of Bakthi, then Bagavan knows the depth of Bakthi and gives Dharshan. In Visnupuran, there was a saint Govindsamy. He did penance, Bagavan appeared. Samy said, `'I don't want money, family, property etc except YOU". Bagavan said, " I have given much wealth, good family and ample money". Saying so Bagavan disappeared. It says further that Bagavan read only the mind NOT the words. This Samy had in mind all that in mind, but in words he said I don't want this and that. He could have said like Prahalad, "Oh Bagavan your Dharshan is enough". So a person can be Aarthi, but in his mind if there should deep craving for God, he gets Dharshan. Persni Suthapa prayed to Maha Vishnu and on Dharshan, they said 3 times that Sri Vishnu should be their child. This was Aarthi with desire. But Dharshan took place. Boon granted. So 1st was Prashni Suthapa, 2cd was Kasyapa and Adithi, 3rd was Vasudev and Devaki. Here also one can note, that boon asked was 3 times and Bagavan to be their child. So Bagavan was child 3 times to them but separated early stage itself. Paramathuma DOES NOT have Raga Devsha (Likes and Dislikes), HE is beyond all this. HE said that HE likes JHANI does not mean HE does not like you and me. It means that Bagavan says that Jhani has elevated beyond worldly matters and 6 bad Gunaas. So Jhani is good child. So a mother will naturally like good child. But at same time she WILL NOT discard the other children, but she will pay little more attention on other knotty children to uplift them. In fact Bagavan HIMSELF has said, that Jhani however will elevate and reach ME, but I (Bagavan) want the other ones to set into Bakthi, so I (Bagavan) will pay more attention to others THAN Jhani. This is Narayaneeyam, Garudapuran, Padmapuran and in Ekadasa Skandh of Srimath Bagavatham Etc. "Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan.'', it posted is about Jhani only. Sadak could have noted this. The word CLEAVER is meant the other side of Ego. Say a person thinks he is cleaver, which cleverness in that person indicates he is superior to others. To avoid this Cleverness of thought, it is said so. Please bear with me, If I should at mistakes B.Sathyanarayan PRIOR POSTING Hari OmMy this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, you said:"In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes ! When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! We need never be beggars ! I repeat we need never be beggars ! Surrender is not begging ! Prayers (you have referred many in your message) are not beggings. They are exercise of rights by children before their Father. If your grand son or son can be said to be begging before you, then a Bhakta also can be said to be begging before Lord !Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! You can keep desire during sadhan period (because it is need/necessity) but in the end throw the dust as well as broom out of house ! Are you aware, where does such begging lead a man to? He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! Do you agree? It is another matter that God calls such 'Artharthi' also a Bhakta and 'kind' ! A sadhak even 'gives' to God rather than begging. He gives his belief, shraddha, vishwas to God. He gives "Mineness" to God !! Mineness of a particular sadhak towards God can be given to God only by that particular Sadhak and by no body else ! God is deficient to that extent! By giving 'mineness' Bhakta fills that deficiency of God. Why does God help those sadhaks who surrender to Him? Because , God has strength but not 'weakness' ! Thus a sadhak gives to God what God does not have viz weakness ! HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego ( You will lose your fame, O Lord, what will I lose?)This is RIGHT of Bhakta! This is the height to which a Bhakta only can rise ! Come On !Now to say a sadhak is not 'clever' ( inspite of Swamiji using the word 'cleverness' in a positive/innocent sense) merely represents an over wisdom/ negativity/ego and a tendency to criticise for the sake of criticising. This is seeing the world as we are ! Nothing, nothing more than that ! Argue on this, with all of your strength if you can ! Anybody else can join freely in right spirit to argue ! I promise , I will not back away from arguments and will accept the truth , if proved wrong ! Welcome ! Pranaams ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------- WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE 'SUN' DOES NOT RISE FOR EVEN ONE DAY ?!THIS WORLD WILL FREEZE TO DEATH ALL VEGETATION WILL DIE AND THERE WILL BE DISASTER ! IF ANYONE ASKS ME TO SHOW 'GOD' I WILL PROUDLY SHOW THE SUN AND PROCLAIM THAT 'HE' IS MY GOD AS HE LOOKS AFTER THIS WORLD EVERYDAY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD DEPENDS ON THE SUN FOR ITS VERY EXISTENCE!WHEN IT IS WINTER ALL FEEL THE COLD IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION, WHEN IT IS SUMMER ALL FEEL THE WARMTH IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION AND WHEN IT RAINS THE RAIN DROPS FALL ON EVERYBODY IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTE CREED OR RELIGION ! LET US ALL UNITEDLY STAND UP AND SALUTE "THE SUN" AND PROCLAIM HIM AS OUR UNIVERSAL 'GOD' AS THIS SINGLE STEP WILL BURY ALL RELIGIONS AND REMOVE ALL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS . THERE IS NO RELIGION GREATER THAN HUMANITY AND THE 'SUN' GOD CAN UNITE THIS WORLD AND BRING RELIEF TO THE HUMANITY FOREVER. MAKE CONCENTRATED EFFORTS TO UNITE THIS TROUBLED WORLD,SO THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVERAFTER ! K.V.SATYAMURTY------------------------ Jai HanumanOnce Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj said: If somebody asks- How is world ? The reply is : As you are !! If you are good, the world will appear good to you. If you are bad, the world will appear bad to you ! Says Rahimdasji:Taahi Aheer ki chhokarian, chhachhia bhari chhaas pe naach nachavat !(To that Lord who is all powerful, the King of all Kings) - the Gopis of Braj used to make Him dance for a cup of butter milk !What was the strength of Gopis ? Prem ! Desireless Prem! It is desirelessness which gets you God not begging ! No opinions about the same !Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala----- Dandavat pranams.... All glories to Sri Sri guru and Gauranga.....I have been wanting to comment on this discussion......particularly as one sadhak has brought up suggestion that I find to be unpalatable. I saw it written that "to desire to have darshan of Bhagavan is bad".....this I cannot agree with. The Supreme Lord is our friend.....friend means happy times together, loving exchanges (giving gifts, offering nice food stuffs, talking confidentiallly.....as mentioned in verse four of Sri Upadesamrta, by Rupa Goswami.....dadati pratignati, guhyam ahkyati prchatti....bhukte bojayate chaiva, sad vidham pritti laksanam) If we have a dear friend (or Friend), we certainly want to spend time with that Person. It can never be considered bad...... In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, ch 18 verse 54, one very famous verse....brahma-bhutah prasannatma, na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu, mad-bhaktim labhate param....."One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me." In the purport to this verse, given by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, it is stated that , "to the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhuta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further, to become engaged in pure devotional service." In pure devotional service, there are very specific terms and characteristics for loving service in the mood of separation, and in the mood of union. " Vipralambha" rasa is the mellow of separation, and union is called "sambhoga". Both states have very specific symptoms and characteristics....but there cannot be one without the other. One cannot have a mood of separation without the hope and aspiration to one day again be with one's beloved. And when there is union, or time spent together, with Krsna, there is always awareness that again, vipralambha (or viraha) will follow, making the meeting more special. If we accept that God is our friend, we should know that there are different levels of loving relationships....mentioned in the scriptures as santa (neutrality), dasya (servitorship), sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (friendship), and madhurya (conjugal love).. There are certainly different veiwpoints on how to love and serve the Absolute, and I pray I have not offended any person of different belief by my words.....simply I do not wish any sadhak to be thinking that if they want to see their dearmost Friend, it is a bad thing. Even in this world, we desire to see those whom we feel love and affection for....how could it be wrong to wish to see that Person who is eternally our wellwishing companion, guide, beloved; our everything? respectftully, Maha Laksmi Dasi ---------------------------- joy, joy, joy 'witnessing ' the ananda that does not wax or vane'witnessing' the witness of right and wrong .............naga leads narinder into the joy where 'right' and 'wrong ' cease to be .....................only the Natkhat playing His flute the soundless sound of Aum singing the song of Love .............blessed is naga ................. naga no more .....................narayana .......................... narayana no more ..................the ever expanding word that Brahaman is .......................smiling at Himself now as naga .......................... now as narayana ..................ah !joy, joy joy ......O sadhakas true , narinder exhorts you ..................stop seeking outside what is already within you are that tat twam asi ............revel, my friends, in the Mahahvakya .........." Aham Brahamasmi.... Aham Brahamasmi ............... aham brahamasmi "and, IF .......................................................my friends, the 'happenning' does not happen .............. eclipsed by the self that knows not the selfwalk the Path ...............be yourself..................accept yourself .................love yourself ................Karamyoga is the Way Bhakti is the WayGyana-yoga is the Way .......AUMMeditation is the WayAUMnarinder bhandari ----------------- Narain ! Narain !! Shri Sathyanarainji ! You are confusing , in my humble view, between the types of Bhaktas. Your Bhakti is defined in Gita as that of "Aart" or "Artharthi" Bhakti. In this Bhakti in order to get rid of sorrows or in order to get more and more money Bhaktas instead of relying upon the world and worldly people , seek money and relief from sorrows from Bhagwaan. The examples given by you of Gajendra etc are that of Aarta bhaktas. There are Jnani and Curious Bhaktas also! But Paramatma likes Jnani Bhaktas most...and He says so in Gitaji also. Refer Gitaji 7:17. However , I could not understand why you should link the types of Bhaktas with EGO ! I also fail to appreciate such a sharp response by you to the use of word "clever" (word used by Param Shraddheya Swamiji is chatur in His discourse, which was translated to clever). I have no doubt that IF YOU WANT TO REALISE GOD....you have to become Jnani Bhakta...you have to become totally desireless. I am certain and can give you more examples from Scriptures to support this. In fact, desirelessness is PRE REQUISITE for Darshanas of God ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad Maharishi -------------------- Jai Shree Krishna Here the subject was not SAADHAN BHAKTI BUT SADHYA BHAKTI. CLEVER means DAKSHA ( Refer BG 12: 16) ! Note for ever- Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never use a single inappropriate word. Yes! There have been many Bhaktas refusing to ask anything from God. Swami Rupesh Kumar ---------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS is necessary for God Realisation and for Darshanas of God! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS means and includes not desiring even Darshanas of God. Dozens of verses from Gitaji and from Bhagvatam can be cited to prove. There is nothing wrong in Swamiji calling those desireless Bhaktas to be "clever" ! Before UTTARA even knew of Brahmashtra sent by Ashwatthama, Lord Krishna had decided to save Parikshit !! Doesn't the Lord already know what we want/desire? Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Namaste!I have contemplated upon two references:Srimadbhagavadgita/Essence of Yogavaasishtha.After granting Arjuna, mystic vision, he saw 'The Supreme Lord', in his Cosmic Form. Arjuna was not at that point prepared for what he saw, the whole universe in its dynamic form, and was petrified, Sadhaks are acquainted with Ch 11 Bhagavadgita,now refer to Verses 52---54:It is exceedingly difficult to observe this form of Mine. Even the Gods are always,keen to behold it.Neither by study of the Vedas, nor by penance, nor charity, or ritual could I be reviewed in this form, as you have.By unswerving devotion only can I be seen in this form (with four arms) and known in its essence and even its merger, O scorcher of foes.Now I particularly like Swamiji's comment on these verses:Sadhaka-Sanjivani (Eng.) page 1318.Exclusive devotion also means, no dependence on adoration or meditation, or spiritual discipline, for God-realization. Then why to worship the Lord and meditate on Him? These are the means to do away with one's pride. When pride is destroyed, the Lords grace, manifests itself and it is by His grace, that a devotee attains Him.Yogavaasishtha, (Story of Suraghu) Verse 38:On dissolution of the mind and egotism, there irises that greatest delight which which is the manifestation of the Supreme Being, existing in all objects (or living creatures).Love and devotion to Bhagwan, focus to reach a point whereby Divine Grace touches one.Om... Shanti...Mike. (K).---- Dear Sadaks, Swamiji Himself has said to ask Bagavan for love, devotion, faith Etc. There were so many Bakthas craved only for Dharshan of Bagavan. I can quote many. Bagavan has said about Karmiyartha Bakthi, which is conditional expectations of material benefits. But Bagavan HIMSELF has said he is also HIS baktha. The reason being that a man can start with conditional love, but eventually ends up with Nishkama Prema Bakthi (Unconditional, under any circumstances even if one looses his child wife or family, becomes beggar, but that man` s love grows rather than diminishing.) We are separated from GOD due to our Karmas by taking a body. The desire to reach HIM is natural and spontaneous. We are certainly beggars and let Bagavan be our only King. Gopies had desires for Bagavan, Vithur had, so many saints had, in fact so many saints begged Bagavan to liberate them. Examples are numerous, but One for the present. A vaisnavite saint called Kuratharvar begged Bagavan like this, " Oh Bagavan, it seems you saved that Elephant Gajender from Crocodile. Normally Elephant is egoistic, but I have SIX fold ego than that Gajendra that is Kama-Krodha-Loba-Madha Etc. Wont you save me from this clutches of this 6 fold arrogance." The knowledge of God is in front of us is mostly dangerous. Example: Sri Krishna pretended to have headache. Naradh rishi came and inquired. Bagavan said HIS head ache will go on applying the dust from the feet of any Baktha. Naradh said he cannot oblige as it sin to do so. Rumani Matha, Sathybama Etc said the same. Because they all had knowledge that the Bagavan is in front. But the Sri Krishna said to bring the dust from the feet of Gopies. Gopies trampled mud with Love and gave a bag of dust saying that they are ready to do anything to releave Bagavan headache. Kuchela went to beg Bagavan. Sri Hanuman begged Sri Ram to give him undisturbed bakthi on Ram Naam. Kunthi begged Bagavan. Uthara begged Bagavan to save her child (Parikhit) from in womb. Kunthi begged Bagavan at the end to give her sorrows always. Bishma begged. In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge. Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan. A devote is never clever. The thought of being cleaver is enough to put us down. This cleverness is seen by others but not by the one who is cleaver. One Example: Markanda Maha Rishi was doing penance in Badrinath. Sri Vishnu appeared and said, " Markandeya you done good penance and I appeared. Ask me a boon." Markanda asked Bagavan to show what is Vishnu Maya. Sri Vishnu showed Maya later part of life. The Sri Vishnu asked Markandeya, "Are you happy". Markada said, "Oh Bagavan it was YOU wish to appear to me and YOUR wish to give me boon and YOUR wish that I did penance and nothing I have done". Sri Vishnu said, "There is no Ego absolutely and I bless you". Then Bagavan Sankara and Maatha Paarvathi also came there and blessed Markandeya. B.Sathyanarayan --- Hari Om'Prem' only is 'Radha/Gopi Tattva' ! Paramatma is hungry for Prem. In Prem 'bhava' (inner sentiment) is only of giving, giving and giving. In Prem there is 'nitya yoga' ( always connection) ! Both Darshans and Antardhyaan (connection and disconnection) are in 'nitya yoga' ! The bliss which you get say in this attraction : "This watch is mine , I should get it" ( viz in Prem) that bliss is not there in the knowledge that 'this is watch'( viz in Darshanas) ! In Prem , the knowledge becomes tasteless !The examples given by me of Sethji and Bhaiji getting Darshanas , was examples of their 'not desiring Darshanas' but getting Darshanas because God so willed ! God wanted His work to be done by them ( spreading of 'Nishkaam bhava' and 'naam japa' respectively) ! You can rise to those heights, in human life. Any desire is bad even when it is desire of God Himself. Because God spread His hands before Baali , He got the name of 'Vaaman' ( small) !! Desire instantly makes you small !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------------------------- Jai HanumanMaharajji said:The bliss of union (darshana) with God is indescribable. But in 'viyog' with Him also there is similar bliss. In Yoga (connection) , there is Viyoga (Disconnection) , and in Viyoga there is Yoga ! How?In yoga there is no 'tripti' (satisfaction) and in viyoga, there is no 'vismruti' ( forgetting) !! This state arises only in Prem, not in Jnana ! In Jnana, there is indivisible Ananda, while in Prem with indivisible Ananda there is also continuously increasing Ananda - Dine Dine Navam Navam ( Day Day New New) ! Thirst is not different from element called water. But Ananda is in thirst not in water! In the worldly thirst there is sorrow, but in Divine thirst there is Ananda of highest order! Only Premi Bhaktas can know this , not Jnani Bhaktas.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ------------------------------- Nishaji,Narinderji's inimitable poetic revelation on The Self (and the NOT-SELF!) doesnot need my interpretation and my interpretation does not suffice to explain thedepths of such a blissful experience either. I salute the absolute reverence andappreciation that springs out from his core existence toward his Guruvakaya aswell as the Shrutivaakya with the sweetness unique to his truthful experience.What I understand from his excalamtions is nothing different from what Iunderstand from the Upanishads …Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyahNa medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |You cannot 'behold' The God (or The Self) as the very act of beholding belongsto the mechanisms that enable the same - mind, senses, body, etc. The Self orThe Absolute cannot be fathomed by any of such instruments as they are NOTdesigned for beholding anything beyond them:Paraanchikhaani vyatriNaatsvayambhooh |Tasmaatparaangpashyati naantraatman ||But yet, when the same instruments suspend their excitations, The Self bloomsitself in the very instrument because The Self is inseparable from any. THATblooms in the one who dissolves in THAT unconditionally … when it blooms atone's core being, it blooms in every atom of one's existence:Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyahTasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanum svaam ||That supreme state is when all your cognitive opparatus transcends its ownlimits by coming to its natural state of silence as such. THE SILENCE is theonly fathomable solution to one who looks for The Absolute ... but, beware thatTHE SILNCE talked of here is not the silence that you and me think of ... it isTHAT beyond all our congnitive and incognitive limits:Yadaa panchaavatishThante gnyaanaani manasaa saha |Buddhishcha na vicheshTate taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||The more you try to explore and identify what The God is, more cocooned you getin the resulting beliefs. Never try to fathom what THAT could be - one, youcannot; two, you need not. You, just like anything else in this univerese, isalso THAT. Therefore, disengage from all your beliefs and notions to be what youare ... then YOU ARE THAT (Tattvamasi!):Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasyana chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam |Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptahya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||THAT is NOT what any mind could ever fathom … think of the very basis withinwhich the very mind is fathomed … think of THAT within everything known as wellas unknown could ever be fathomed ... verily THAT ALONE IS THE BRAHMAN. Neverdelude yourself to believe in anything else as THAT. Just like the senses orthoughts cannot fathom the mind in which they are fathomed, the mind also cannotfathom THAT within which it is fathomed:Yanmanasaa na manute yena aahurmano matam |Tadeva brahmam tadviddhi nedam yadidamupaasate ||We can keep revelling in the ocean of the abundant knowledge overflowing fromour great scriptures and saints … but, have you fathomed THAT with all these?ALL remains waste unless we do experience what is taught ... thousands of yearsof hearing and talking is not enough as Swamiji quotes,Baavara bed bidusha baavariya pothee pustak phandaa ||Therefore, as Narinderji suggests himself, do put an end to all the questionsand do experience the silence there of … yadaa panchaavatishThante … tadevabrahmam taddviddhi … THE SILENCE beyond all our cognition is THE BRAHMAN, THEABSOLUTE, THE TRUTH, THE BHAGAVAAN, THE KRISHNA, ...In symmary, whatever that is transacted through one's cognitive mechanism cannotbe THAT. Only when the cognitive inquisition halts, THAT reveals in fullblossom. I think that is what Narinderji means. Narinderji, pl. correct me if Iam misled.Respects.Naga Narayana ------- Dear Geetha Devotees, I am fortunate to meet a lady farmer -Thavudammal who has Dharsan of Lord krishna 3 times. She is maintaining about 200 cattle in her farm in avillage near Sivakasi in Tamil Nadu. .First Dharsan was Lords feet alone. Second dharsan of Lord as a small child- Bala krishna. Third time as a teenager with flute . Then regularly or some occasions she is able to interact with Krishna and recieve correct knowledge or answers from Him. Accordingly she changed her diet into satvic without vegetables, with out acidic food, worshipping only Krishna , not disposing aged cows or bulls but maintaining till the point of death, feeding all creatures including rats and dogs .She is alos giving due respect or follow horoscopic way of life according to dasa ,Bhutti and start important work on auspicious days. She is convinced of past birth/ karma and recieved insights of many person about their last birth or karma. She is an example of true saranagathi . This type of way of life certainly bring such elevation to those who follows - which is more practical for a wordly life of devotees rather than reading a lot with out adhering the truth or following other spiritual paths which may be suitable for sanniyasis or bramacharis. Ultimaytely those are blessed who is able to recive knowledge or answers or directions from Him for even day today affairs. This is more less a state like Ramakrishna paramhamsa able to speak with Kalidevi and follow accordingly. It requires Geeta way of life . When we are fully adhering simple life with high spiritual values certainly we are nearing Lord and one day or other He may answer our needs whith accumulation of Punniya karma by doing good deeds or so. With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, ---------------------------- I m very much wonderstruck at the dreams of Sadhakas who aspire for Divine Desires just like CHHOO MANTRA. I would request Devotees to go inside the bathroom for viewing their clear face in the mirror. Sometimes mirror is dust covered, sometimes there is no proper light, just to see once own face in the mirror. Like wise Sashaka desireous of "BHAGWAN DARSHAN" have to clean / purify his own inner screen of mind where one could precieve the image "MAN MELLA TAN UJLA" and have to purify his "MAL and WIKHEP" i.e. purify his actions "KARMAS" give up one's own undue desires "TRISHNAIN" and control vikars "KAAM" + "KIRODH" + "LOBH" + "MOH" + AHANKAR". to identitify with HM. As I have read and understnd from the scriptures, it takes many births to be able to have "BHAGWAN DARSHANAS". Bondage of ATMA & SUBTLE BODY is very complecated.This Sansara is very strange, beyond ordinary understanding, every jigyasu has to look within in confirmity with "VEDAS" and "GITAJI" teachings. Hari Motwani ------------------------------- ================================ PRIOR POSTING Hari OmAny desire is bad, including for even Darshanas of God ! Necessity is of "mineness" with Paramatma , He should be likeable to/ liked by you. A true Lover nevers seeks reciprocation. Our goal has to be "Love" (Prem) with Him. This 'Love' automatically arises in you due to 'mineness' with Paramatma ! There is no 'action'/ 'effort' at your end. Hence important is your mineness with Him not His darshanas. Any demand is bad and at the point of arising itself lowers you- makes you a beggar !! In any case, this world is first incarnation ( Avataar) of Paramatma ! Oh ! What a bliss it should impart to you, if you start seeing God in every one? God in front of you all the time, always ... ! Where then is the need for being a beggar? We are the children of the King of all Kings !! We are not beggars ! We are Lovers !! We are Royal Prince !!!Hence Swamiji said -"Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting." Lord Hanuman preferred to remain in world and decided that wherever there is 'Raam Katha' in the world , He shall be present. Characters like Kaak Bhusandi in Ramayana (dozens of examples can be given) sought "Bhakti" from God when they got Darshanas. What is Bhakti? Liking the God ! What else ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------ I have a desire to see Bhagavan Ram. When I delve deeper, that desire is not born due to love towards Ram. If I truly loved Ram, then I would be extremely eager to remember Him, see Him etc.I want to see Ram so that I can think of myself as great devotee. It is because of the ego.I want to feel special.Anyways, that is the reason for me to see Ram. When ego subsides, then I don't have desire to see Ram.Ram is everywhere and in everyone. I just want to remember Him, reduce my attachment to this world and increase my attachment to Ram.If I follow above, then Ram will take care of the rest. (yoga ksema vahamyaham) Gaurav Mittal ------------- I would like to thank Sri Vyasji for this wonderful email. What is "yugal upasana"? Vyasji or others, could you elaborate on that? Thank you very much.Ram Ram,Gaurav Mittal -------------------------- beauteously, have nagajee, pratapjee, vyas jee, vineetjee, and, all the sadhaks of Joy and Love that is God, shared their experience .................. shared their experiencing ................................. experiencing is Real................... the experiencer and the experience arise on either end ........ loving is real, the lover and the beloved arise as the Joy of loving ...................... dancing is Real.............. when dancing stops, the dancer and the dance are no more !!!!! AUM narinder bhandari ------------------ SOMEONE rightly said " in hindi" EKEY SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB JAYE i respect these words very much till date though almost 18 years have passed since i heard these Rahul ------------------------- Jai HanumanI am not fully convinced reg: the statement made by Anirudhji Joshi re : Belief. Why a distinction should be drawn between what relates with Daddy the Great and what does not relate with Him? "Tashya tashyachalam shraddhaam " stated in BG 7:21 ?For millions and trillions of eons , the Jeeva is loitering ! Had Daddy been interfering in their beliefs, Jeevas would not have sufferred for that long ! Swamiji would never forget to qualify a statement, if need be or here He is talking only with reference to a state of Devotee in front of Daddy the Great, the demand of Devotee ? Only with reference to that demand ? May be Joshiji is referring to a 'stupidity' as a 'belief' or may be he is not !!Then there is "Bhootani yanti Bhootejya" referred in BG 9:25 ! What do Learned Sadhaks have to say ?Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------------- Fellow learners,I am immensely pleased with Hari Shankara Deo. If one wishes to see the SupremeBeing, It can be found both inside and outside, it is far away and very close toyou, It moves and is static. It is present in the smallest sub atomic particleand at the same time it can occupy the whole space.(refer to Eesaavaasyopanishatand chapter 8 of Bg). It is as Shri Deo said, is all pervasive. "Visvam Vishnuh"is the first of countless names of It. Mokhs or release is not obtained fromreading scriptures, listening to discourse etc (Refer to Kathopanishat 2.23. Onehas to become Sarva bhoota hite rataa, sarvatra sama buddhayah and sarvaBhootaatma Bhootaatma to become eligible for Brahma Bhooyaaya Kalpate. All theseare terms used in Guta as prerequisites to "see" the Supreme Being.Seein a stone in certain shape can nver be equivalent to seeing the SupremeBeing. It is like seeing a musquito that once landed on an Elephant and claimingthat the musquito is Elephant. Kindly refer to 4.19 of Sveta Asva taraUpanishat, whch says Na tasya pratima Asti. Ofcourse it can be inter preted asThee is nothing equal to it. TRY TO SEEIT EVERY WHERE AND IN EVERY ONE. tHEN ALONE ONE CAN "SEE" IT.Krishna Samudrala --------------------------------SATIETY is a bliss for those who never seek it Rahul ================================== PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one is overwhelmed by reverence for whatever IS, one is beholding God! If one is overwhelmed by Unconditional Love, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by the Silence of mind, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by Joy that knows no cause, one is beholding God!One is beholding God only because God is beholding such a ONE!Namaskar..................Pratap Bhatt =========================== 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?One could behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God) … when nothing else (in otherwords, absolutely nothing) is held in one's vision (Darshan) … when one does nothave any desire to behold anything in one's vision as such … when any vision andevery vision becomes the same ... when the very desire to behold anything isdissolved completely.One 'beholds' the Bhagavaan when lets oneself 'beheld' completely in THE SAME... when the difference between the individual and Bhagavaan is completelymitigated ... when any difference between the individual and anything else iscompletely mitigated ... when the very duality, the differences between theperceived objects and worlds, is obliterated at its core.Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasya | na chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam ||2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.The belief of beholding the Bhagavaan is the paradox of its nemesis - belief ofnot beholding the Bhagavaan. Both are equally beheld within the Bhagavaan andboth are equally inadequate to behold the Bhagavaan as well. How can theALL-INCLUSIVE Bhagavaan destroy anything at all?! Nothing can be taken away fromHim ... even He cannot throw anything away!! All beliefs are acceptable to theBhagavaan as they all are absorbed within Him eternally ... yet, no belief canencompass (behold) Him as they all remain eternally momentary.PoorNamadah poorNamidam poorNaat poorNamudhachyate |PoorNasya poorNamadaaya poorNamevaavashishyate ||3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Therefore, a vigilant devotee would never entertains any idea of beholding theBhagavaan (by experience and awareness) … just lets oneself dissolve in theocean of life as one with the same … merging in the Bhagavaan at once and oncefor all. This absolute merger that does not leave any trace of the individualback is verily THE LOVE that is talked of in great awe here. A devotee wouldonly look forward to the dissolution of one's own identity forever ... nothingelse ... no more beholding as the very beholding holds the individuality up inone's perception.Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptah | Ya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||Respects.Naga Narayana -------------------------------- Hari Om"Insight" only those can give who have had darshanas of Him. Let me therefore state what I have read / heard. During the 2oth century at least three close friends from Soil of India, realised Paramatma and at least 2 had 'darshanas' of God. Sethji Jaidayalji Goendka was earlier "Brahmavaadi" (Striver of Nirgun Niraakar). God, suo motto out of His sweet will, gave 'darshana' to Sethji. Sethji at that time was in Churu (Rajasthan) and because of fever was lying on a cot with a blanket on body. There he got "Chaturbhuj Bhagwaan" Darshana. (A Form of God with four hands) ! When God manifests, no wall or veil can obstruct Him. Sethji got 'romaanch' ( excessive thrill) and 'ashrupaat' (incessant huge flow of tears) . A 'bhava' came in his mind that God wants to tell him" Spread Nishkaam Bhava" in the world. Thereafter he changed from "Brahmavaadi" (Nirgun Nirakar) to "Ishwarvaadi" (Sagun Sakaar) ! But he never preached "yugal upasana" ( twin striving) ! In speaking Truth , Sethji was very famous and well known.Sethji was Founder of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was very close to him. He was elder to Swamiji. Swamiji always very respectfully and affectionately remembered him till the end. Bhaiji ( Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) also had 'darshanas' of God. Whatever God told him, it got published by "Divya Sandesh" ( Divine Message) ! He got command from God of spreading the glory of "Naam Japa" ! Sethji and Bhaiji both were cousins ( their mothers were sisters) !In fact Swamiji also studied and strived in the beginning on "Nirgun Nirakaar" only. Later on , He realised that Bhakti is supreme and final goal. "Brahma" is "abha" (reflection) of Bhagwaan only. The power of feeding and nourishing all is in Paramatma (Ishwar) not in Brahma. By getting Brahma you get completeness but you donot get "Param Prem" ( ever increasing Divine Love) ! "Tattva Jnana" is "Atma Jnana"! After "Atma Jnana" (Self Realisation) , one becomes eligible for "Prem" (Paramatma Jnana) ! In Shrimad Bhagavatam ( 1/7/10) it is said:Those whose 'chijjad granthi' (Jeevahood) has been severed, such 'atmaram munis' ( liberated ) also do selfless/expectationless "nishkaam bhakti"; because the attributes (Gunas) of Bhagwaan are such that they attract people towards them. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram When the desire arose, then there was darshan of Bhagwaan. We cannot behold God in this life, this is not a belief. It is false (artificial). To speak of that which is false, is as good as wasting our time. A devotee is not clever, rather he is by nature sincere and undeceitful. For a devotee to behold God, or to attain Love, can it be in his hands? What God does and does not do, what can man know and discuss about this. Now that we have accepted that we are God's, now what remains in our hands? Whatever is God's will, that alone is our will, and that alone will happen. Is it possible for something else to happen? so be it, Vineet Sarvottam ------------------ Who is eligible to see Parama Atma and what is seeing IT? The Supreme Being isnot an object like a table or chair or Shilp Shetty etc. So seeing IT can not bein the biological and light theory sense. Seeing is understanding or realizingIts Tattva. That is why Lord tells Arjuna Na tu maam sakyase drashtum anena evasva cakshushaa" - 11.8 Gita (Gitaji sounds so aetificial). How do we realize orunderstand Its Tattva? The solution to this problem is in Slokas 11.48, to 55,More in my next Post.Krishna samudrala--------------------- There is no Bhagwan hanging in the sky. Parmatma is all pervasive and cannot be seen. Conversely what is not Bhagwan? But then all things which perish are illusions. Can one behold or have darshan of God? Yes after one has made oneself ready to have darshan, God may manifest in the form visualised by the devotee. However this happens after long periods of meditation after which one gets enlightenment. We have examples of great ones like the Buddha who went through years of meditation before he became enlightened. Also he had to go through a hundred births (Bodhisattavas) before he finally took birth as Siddharth. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! The Q by Moderators is based on the poetry written by Bhandariji. Otherwise Revered Swamiji had answered all the Qs beyond doubt. Bhandariji you starts with: WHEN THE MIND STOPS ASKING ANY Qs. But does mind ever stop? Neither Gita nor any Scriptures have suggested a state like that. Mind may become dispassionate but to STOP ! Unheard of in Spiritual terms at least. Only one Q is genuinely due for deliberation then. Paramatma habitually not breaking a belief. Here the belief is in Him or related with Him only which appears to be referred. Not the funny beliefs which we all carry with reference to the World/ worldly things/ people. Those beliefs Paramatma keeps breaking at astounding intervals. It is only when you form a belief with Paramatma in the picture, that belief is NEVER broken by Him. But, for example...you connect with the world and He will ensure disconnection ! Rely upon any worldly people ....you will get DHOKHA....DHOKHA !! But if you believe with reference to Him, His appointed Demi Gods, ...He will ensure that your belief is strengthened. Therefore, if you do not believe in God...He will not break your belief. But if you believe in world...it is bound to be broken !! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi -------------------- Radhey! Radhey !! Mr. Bhandariji. I am not able to understand anything from the poetry. Naga Narayanaji can help us understand? Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGWhen the Mind stops asking all questionsand in the silent mind,in the joy of being,arises in youthe Ultimate Question, " Who am I ?"the only True Question.............As the birth of the Question, you witnessin awe and wonderNeither waiting for the answer, nor seeking,with the Mind.................When the Mind goes mute ....................and the wonderment keeps expandingdissolving the Mind in Joy..............................In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!!God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks,there is No answer, nariNothing to seekNothing to knowThe question itselfContains the answerHidden In its embraceAnd the answerRemainsEver and ever the QuestionThe answer un-knowable.and so, nari,if your being asks the questionand , having asked,revels in the un-answering Silenceits own sourceits own selfthe not-selfnari would know himselfas the Knower truewho does not knowand yet knows !and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaksnari's head, in reverence, bows.............AUMnarinder bhandari==========================================: Shree Hari:Ram Ram31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla TrayodashiQuestion: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?Answer: There are three points in this -1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there ispeace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan.2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma,then one may behold God and3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to beholdHim, than too you will behold God.If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, Hecan make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan)of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of "I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine" -is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there isno need for anything else.Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)?Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan -Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his ownbeliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge /Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone'sbeliefs.On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothinglacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remainsunder his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining SelfRealization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devoteelies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan.Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance tobeholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this?Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This isbecause there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in lovethat the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love,beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously,uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore aclever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meetingor not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that timetrue love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lovermeets or does not meet, there remains no desire.From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Shree Hari Ram RamPlease share your experiences / understanding / insights BRIEFLY on -1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram================================== NEW POSTING Jai Shri Hari,In the words "KarmaYoga" , "GyaanYoga" and "BhatiYoga"; the key word "Yoga" itself defines the destination (i.e. union with the supreme). It does not require any more interpretation about the destination. Yes! the "karma", "gyaan" and "bhakti" contributes differently to attain the "Yoga" (i.e. union with same supreme) but we should note that here "Yoga" (i.e. supreme goal) is more important than those three which we can see from BhagavaanJi's words for Arjun "YOGI BHAVAARJUN -6/46, YOGYUKTO BHAVAARJUN-8/27". In GitaJi, the Yogeshwar Shri KrishNa, who is ishwar (i.e. God) of all the yogas and the well wisher of all his children (SUHRIDAM SARVABHOOTAANAM - 5/29) suggests the aspirants to take the help of his grace/blessing/shakti/paraBhakti to attain the goal. In my understanding, all the aspirants rely on the supreme SELF/ESSENCE/GOD but their ways of reliance may be different. In other words, all the aspirants have love/devotion/bhakti for the supreme SELF/ESSENCE. Bhagavaan Shri RamJi says "JAATE BEGI DRAWAUN MAIN BHAAI | SO MAM BHAGATI BHAGAT SUKHADAI" (Maanas-AraNya-16/1) i.e. "whatever melts my heart quickly is the bhakti/devotion".Regarding having darshan of BhagavaanJi, the shloka 11 of chapter 4 is the answer which is "YE YATHAA MAAM PRAPADYANTE TAANSTATHAIVA BHAJAAMIYAHAM" (i.e. the way you approach me I reward you in the same manner). Now, regarding the desire of having darshan, there is no desire in the Prem/Love. The desire does not exist after realizing the Prem/Love with the supreme. Desire to have love for the God is more valuable than to have his darshan as the Love is the one which defines the values of the darshan. Yes, darshan of God can increase the love for the lover/Premi. Once a bhakt is in true Love/Prem with the God, sometime he can not bear the pain of separation of the God and can call/pray his God/Premaaspad to give him darshan. In that state, Calling/Praying to have darshan of his God is not not the desire. It is just a form of Love. It is Leela (divine play) between Bhakt and Bhagavaan. For example, Aadiguru Shankaraacharyaji prays Bhagavaan Shri Krishna ("SHARANYO LOKESHHU BHAVATU MAM KRISHNOKSHI VISHHAYA" ) to be the object of his eyes (i.e. a true bhakt wants to see his God). Here, it is not a desire but a form of true love.Thanks & Best RegardsNiteesh Dubey --- Shree Hari Ram Ram It is my sincere request to all sadhaks that in the message of Avadhootji - "Karamyoga is the way to Swargaloka, Gyanayoga is the way to the impersonal Brahman (spiritual homogeneousness) and Bhaktiyoga is the way to the Lord's personal abode" - to please help me understand that Ishvar (God) That is All Pervading, what is His "personal abode" and what is His "impersonal abode" ? and what is the difference between the two? The All Pervading Ishvar (God) when is He in His "personal abode" and when is He in His "Impersonal Abode". Not simply words, rather explain understanding with authenticaion / verification. Vineet Sarvottam--- Hari OmVasudev Sathyanarainji ! Let us continue Divine Satsanga for benefit of Sadhaks at large! For 'donating' there is no need to earn. Just As: No body earns to pay income tax. Similarly: Donation is also a tax only. If you have money then only donate. Punishment will come only if you have and do not donate. Hence do not desire for more money so as to donate as that desire is merely a stupidity/agyaan and nothing more than that. Q In Geetha, Bagavan refers a person praying HIM for material benefits as Kamyartha Baktha. Bagavan did not say only "Kamyarthan. " But added "Baktha' to it, as HE treats him alike.Ans: No ! Then why Narada and Yama gave promises (allurements) to Dhruva and Nachiketa- and both of them refused? If God treats them alike, why there is BG 7:17/ 18 ? Q Gopies begged at the feet of Bagavan that HE should not leave Virdhavan.Ans. God did not oblige them!He never returned because Gopies desired !Q Kunthi virtually begged Sri Krishna to give her a boon that sorrows always comes to her.Ans: Then why one should be 'Artharthi', Sir ? Should not we follow Kunthi ?Q Saint Durvasa begged Bagavan Shiva first and then Sri Vishnu to save him from the clutches of Suderson Chakra trying to kill him, due to cursing Raja Agarish.Ans: God refused him to oblige with total disdain and said- 'Aham Bhaktah Paradhino'! This is a famous statement !! What does it mean? It means that God says - I am dependent on wishes of Devotees !! Is God joking here, Sathyanarainji ? To become a child is also not easy, Sir !! Q Whether I think I am beggar or prince of Bagavan, it does have atom of an effect. If Bagavan thinks I am HIS own, only that matters.Ans: Wrong ! Totally wrong !! When did He desert you? Tell me the time ! Come On !! It is you who turned your face towards the world. It is now your duty to turn your face towards Him !!Q Yes Sir Because of that glass only I want to be beggar Ans: No sir ! Rather be bold !!Disown the very dependence/recognition over/on that glass !Q Prayer what I think is, saying Slokas, Mantras, doing Japas Etc where one does not ask the fruits of it or for any help.Ans : No Sir ! Prayer is "mineness" with Him !! Does a parrot pray when it says "Raam" , "Raam" , "Raam" ? Q Children beg the diseased parents on the day of Shardha (Death anniversary of parent) to forgive them for mistakes done knowingly or unknowingly.Ans No Sir ! They do their prescribed duty only ! Who said doing duty is begging?Q Durva left his parents and did penance like nobody did. Sri Vishnu appeared. On seeing Bagavan the desire Vanished.Ans: How can you say that first desire vanished or first darshana took place? Q Here also Durva asks (Begs) Bagavan that he should not get ego while traveling on elephant to become princes king"Ans: But you said, Sir, that his desires vanished !!Are you aware Sathyanarainji that even after realization, Dhruva was not happy, but he felt sorry by thinking that he had commited a mistake by praying to God to grant him the kingdom? The result was that he had to lament ! Q Human birth I thought was cleansing ones own Karmas rather than having desire of giving to the power of 3.Ans: Who told you that, Sir? Do in animal births cleansing of one's own past karmas does not take place, Sathyanarainji Maharaj ?Q Never have the thought that human birth is for giving. Giver is Bagavan. We are HIS servants or postman or messengers.Ans: Now kindly think ! Human birth is given only for giving !! You can give to God also but only in 'human birth' !! King Bali was a human or an animal ? Q Bagavan Vamana took roop as Bhramin not as any other caste human. Only Bhramins have right to beg (Yachaga) by sastras.Ans: Why ? If a sudra begs something from you, is there no God in him? Do Sudras have no right? Were all Gopies or Draupadi or Gajendra or Kunti etc Brahmins ? Sudras can not beg before God... Is it or only they can beg only before other humans, is it ? Which verse of which Shashtra you are referring Sir ? All are His children, Sir ! Where is distinction of caste, creed, colour etc .. except in prescribed duties ? Is Brahmina that inferior so as to be allowed to beg ? And others that superior so as not to beg? Illay, Sir , illay !!! Q Bagavan is very clear in Geetha, "Patram, Pushpam. Palam, Thoyam---" and HE says that person is HIS Baktha. Can it be called that Bagavan asking us these and we are giver?Ans: Yes Sir, Bhagwaan is really very clear in Gita ! Even God Himself calls them to be Bhaktas !! Otherwise why there will be a verse in Gita recommending that ? Give, Sir, give !! Really, He is very hungry of our "mineness" ! Let us fulfill His deficiency !! He is very anxious of receiving us with open arms ! Just turn towards Him... Rather than towards Artha !Q Bagavan cannot loose HIS fame. Ans: Why He cannot? We are His part only, His children only not some strangers, Sir !! He does not oblige us for lifting us ! Does not a father lose his fame if He fails to love his child? Try disregarding the love of your children and grand children ... See for yourself whether a Father loses his fame or not !!!Pranaams , Sir ! Do come back, surely ... For the sake of Satsanga !! Don't forget to point out any issue out of your message which did not get addressed. I also make mistakes ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Sathyanarainji, whatever is NECESSARY for a bhakta is made available by God under a promise made by Him in Chapter 9:22. Where then is the need for desiring or begging. As regards desiring to donate, least said the better. Why at first instance one should accumulate dirt and then clean it ? Hence there is no wisdom in desiring money from God so as to donate. He must understand that whatever situation/circumstance is existing at present IS ENOUGH for a sadhak to liberate himself. Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh ---- Radhey ! Radhey !! Begging is of two types. One- to get rid of sorrows/get worldly things. Two- As a general personality (surrendered) : as BHAVA. Latter is great but former ...NO WAY it can get you anywhere. Even God is seen to be helping only when the Law of Karma lets Him do that. A Jeeva must suffer the karmic debts- COME WHAT MAY !! Where is then any point in begging or crying or brooding or praying? God , if you surrender to Him, does not remove your sorrows...He simply gives you power to tolerate them better. A Bhakta therefore should renounce the desire rather than begging before the God to get rid of sorrows/ worldly things. In any case, total desirelessness is a prerequisite for you to get Darshanas. I dont agree that Dhruva was desirous when he got Darshanas of Lord. It was Lord's greatness that He granted him that which he had desire of at the start of Bhakti. Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji------ Dear Respected Contributors and Readers;A comment or two on the previous postings if I may..There is definitely a 'sadhya' or goal for each application of yoga. Not that karma yoga, jnana or gyana yoga and bhakti yoga yield the same results. Each method has its respective process, application and destination such that one who is engaged in karma-yoga will achieve the higher planetary systems as there are still material desires as was the case with Dhruva Maharaja . When one realizes the futility of the material sphereas pointed out by Shree Krishna it the Gita 8.16 he will relinquish his attachment for temporary comfort.The same is true of gyana yoga in the sense that although the person is detached from material gain, still without a concept of the Supreme Person and His abode he achieves the impersonal realms known as the Brahmajyoti or border between Martyaloka and Vaikuntha. Thus said our post from Narinder should reallyhave read ' Karamyoga is the way to Swargaloka, Gyanayoga is the way to the impersonal Brahman (spiritual homogeneousness) and Bhaktiyoga is the way to the Lord's personal abode. The later obviously supercedes the former two and for this reason the Gita stresses on bhakti as mentioned particularly in Gita 18.55, 'bhaktya mam abhijanati'. Krishna Bhagavan says 'Bhakti' here as the path to success. Thus Naarad who also posted on this subject would better state that Bhakti Yoga is the way to realize God to be true to Lord Krishna's dictates on the matter.Krishna Prema Bhakti Ki Jaya!Avadhuta --------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Brothers, we desire to behold (have darshan) of God (Bhagwaan, Paramatma) and darshan does not happen, is an impossibility. It happens in an instant. If however you desire not God (Bhagwaan) , rather if you desire to behold whatever is the form of God (Bhagwaan) that you have in your mind, then brothers, that is not in your hands, but it is in God's hands. So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ===================================== Dear Sadaks, "It is said that in every atom there is presence of God and God is everything", as said by Sri Ramachandra. Is very correct. Sant Gnaneswar was asked the same question by Kasi Vidvans and said, "Is there Bagavan in a Buffalo that was just crossing and can it say Vedas as you say Bagavan present in all ". Sant made the Buffalo speak. Another Sant was asked by a cowherd man that if can say some mantra and he also can see Bagavan. The sant said a Mantra which meat in Sanskrit, Buffalo head. The cowherd man said the mantra to his heart and saw Bagavan before the Sant could see. Both these examples are there in Scripts with details of persons name and places. What mattered here was VISWASS (Faith) in total surrender to God. So God was there in Buffalo NOT to ordinary man or a slaughterer. The extreme love and faith which makes one see God in all. But all in the world is perishable. Bagavan in Geetha has said, "I am in everything but I am not them". Which means Bagavan can give Dharshan in anything (May be in a tree) but HE is not tree. "with buttermilk the Gopis were able to make Bhagwaan Shri Krishna dance" said by Sri Ramachandra. Can anyone make Sri Krishna so. Yes. Anyone who has Niskama Prema Bakthi can do. It is not the butter milk. Yudhava after visiting Virdhavan and meeting Gopies, reaches Mathura and sitting by side of Bagavan, folds his hands saying Namaskar in the direction of Virdhavan. Bagavan asks Vudhava that why he is turning in a particular direction to say Namaskar. Vudhava said, " Namaskar to that Gopies". Even in Ekadasa Skand of Srimath Bagavath Bagavan praises Gopies Bakthi which HE say absolutely pure and unconditional. (Nish Kama Prema Bakthi) B.Sathyanarayan ---------------------------- Dear Sadaks and Sri Vyasji, My this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, Never ever I consider any argument unhealthy, particularly with Sri Vyasji, Sri Pratabji, Sri Mikeji and all others"Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."what I posted Normally in this world, when a person is son of a minister Ego shows up. Similarly in richness, in knowledge, skill etc Ego pops in. This we are seeing day to day. Sanakathi Saints of Bramaji when at the doors of Vaikunt, their ego popped in. Akroora took Samatha diamond stone from Sri Krishna due to Ego. So I thought, better be as a beggar rather than thinking of I am the prince of Bagavan. As far I am concerned when my humbleness will go and Ego comes I don't know. Mother Sathiya Bama and Sri Balramji brother of Sri Krishna was in highest of Ego. So came Krishna Hanuman Yud. Besides Swamiji speech note was there few months ago, saying that we have to ask Bagavan for HIS grace, kindness, to give Bakthi Etc. Sri Pratabji also read that and replied to me. In Geetha, Bagavan refers a person praying HIM for material benefits as Kamyartha Baktha. Bagavan did not say only "Kamyarthan." But added "Baktha' to it, as HE treats him alike. Since I am in this world, I thought, I should beg Bagavan NOT materialistic things, but for HIS grace, guidance, care Etc so that I am not tangled in worldly matters. Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Gopies begged at the feet of Bagavan that HE should not leave Virdhavan. Droupati begged Sri Krishna while she was disrobed. Kunthi virtually begged Sri Krishna to give her a boon that sorrows always comes to her. Kuchela begged Sri Krishna with his tears to treat him as ordinarily rather than princely way. Yogiraj & Saint Durvasa begged Bagavan Shiva first and then Sri Vishnu to save him from the clutches of Suderson Chakra trying to kill him, due to cursing Raja Agarish. There are many more saints. All of them never kept quite in their troubles thinking that Sri Krishna knows what is happening and no need to cry for HIS help. Who else can we depend on. Whether I think I am beggar or prince of Bagavan, it does have atom of an effect. If Bagavan thinks I am HIS own, only that matters. In Geetha I think there is a place where Bagavan says about this. I shall search and post to benefit all. Sri Vyasji what you said is perfect, "Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes !" Yes Sir Because of that glass only I want to be beggar in my personal opinion. Why do one pray? To release him from bondages and take him to Bagavan feet. Prayer what I think is, saying Slokas, Mantras, doing Japas Etc where one does not ask the fruits of it or for any help. Bagavan says in Geetha "do your Karma and do not think of fruits". That is prayer. But when asked for something, it is begging. But when these bakthas or saints ask for something as said above, is begging. When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! Sri Vyasji. We have to think this in each and every action and deed and thoughts that we are sons of King of Kings and do them perfectly that our father Bagavan will like it. Any mis-deed, thought, action will not be liked by our father Bagavan WHO is Alukdruk (Never winks). In Narayaneeyam Sant Narayana Battadri begs Bagavan by says "PANVAGUAPATHE" (King of Kings) to relieve him from paralytic stroke. In Visnusahasranama there is a word "Amara Prabu" (King of Demi Gods). But Sri Bishmaji begged Sri Krishna at his lying on bed of arrows. Normally son/daughter begs ONLY when they commit sin or grave mistakes. They request to be pardon. Children beg the diseased parents on the day of Shardha (Death anniversary of parent) to forgive them for mistakes done knowingly or unknowingly. But normally children demand and we give them. Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! Sri Vyasji here also you are right. But small rectification. Durva left his parents and did penance like nobody did. Sri Vishnu appeared. On seeing Bagavan the desire Vanished. It is Sri Vishnu reminds him of the purpose of penance. Durva was with certain desire Sir you know. Desire disappears by itself on Bagavan Dharshan. Many example are there. Here also Durva asks (Begs) Bagavan that he should not get ego while traveling on elephant to become princes king "He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! ". Here this man begs for more money to donate rather than keeping for himself. This is unselfish desire. But it is desire which Bagavan says in Geetha it (Desire of fire) grows like pouring Ghee in fire. Then it is Tathuvamasi, because that man desire grows and he becomes THAT (Very rich Man in next birth) like thinking of Deer , became deer. HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! Human birth I thought was cleansing ones own Karmas rather than having desire of giving to the power of 3. 3 times Suthapa and Pirshni asked boon for Sri Vishnu to be their child. They took 2 more births. Never have the thought that human birth is for giving. Giver is Bagavan. We are HIS servants or postman or messengers. What one hand gives let the other NOT know is saying. Because you are not the giver. Once the thought comes we are givers, there comes "I" In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Bagavan Vamana took roop as Bhramin not as any other caste human. Only Bhramins have right to beg (Yachaga) by sastras. Besides Bagavan grew very fast in days and disappeared in days. Bagavan Vamana after taking all his wealth from King Bali, crushed him to patal lok. Why such an act, that too by Bagavan? Crushing one who gave. My real humble thinking, "BECAUSE BALI THOUGHT HE WAS THE GIVER". Forgive Sri Vasji if my comment is wrong. It can read there that Bagavan gave boon to king Bali that HE will protect him at Patal Lok. What we give fruits, flowers etc to God can it be said, that we are givers. Bagavan is very clear in Geetha, "Patram, Pushpam. Palam, Thoyam---" and HE says that person is HIS Baktha. Can it be called that Bagavan asking us these and we are giver? The meaning is elaborate and Mediator asked me to be brief. Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? It is true. Because I forget him in this world of pleasure and desires. But by HIS Karuniya is awaits you to realize and say it is only YOU. Nothing but surrender. Rest HE says HE will take care as said in Geetha. Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego Bagavan cannot loose HIS fame. He is Prema Swaroop. Here Tukaram Sant gave meaning. Of Bagavan what will other think of YOU as this Baktha is crying, whether YOU are there or not. For me I have nothing to loose as I have nothing (Fame, dignity Etc). That Love on Bagavan only HE likes, rather than for ages many abused HIM. The abusers SIR you know, Sisubal, Pounderaka Vasudev, Kans, Ravan, Hiranyakasipu Etc. HE does not care what these sinned ones shout. HE is above Raga & Duvesh. HE only sees what is in your heart says in depth rather than in your words from mouth. That is why HE tests HIS bakthas to see in depth Bakthas heart. Like Baktha Gora after trampling his child in mud, he continued saying Vital. Such Love is unconditional and pure. THIS is HOW we should think of the meaning what Swamiji said. SADAKS- We can note in many slokas sung by great saints, at last lines saying, "Knowingly or unknowingly if I had done any mistakes Of Bagavan forgive me" So do I say to all Sadaks to pardon me in my mistakes in this posting. B.Sathyanarayan --------------- narayan narayan IN ENGLISH A devotee asked Swamiji - it is said that in every atom there is presence of God and God is everything, of these two what is true? Swamiji said, believing that there is presence of God in every atom and the Truth being that God is All. Turn your mind upside down and leave the unreal (temporary), and start to believe in the real (Eternal, permanent), as Vyasji has said that with buttermilk the Gopis were able to make Bhagwaan Shri Krishna dance, in the same manner God will be present for you. You simply call out to HIm with exclusive sentiments, what to speak of darshan, he will Himself be ever present for you. When losing in love, all complain, if ever you had loved the Lord, then there would not be such complaints. (this may not be translated accurately) Ramchandar IN HINDI swamiji se kisi bhakt ne pucha tha : kahte he kan -kan me bhagwan he or kan-kan he bhagwan he isme shahi kon sa he tho swamiji ne kaha: - kan-kan me bhagwan he ye manyta he or kan-kan he bhagwan he ye hakikat he. aap man ko ulta kardo[nam] phir aap asat ko chod kar sat me vishvash karne lagoge jis tarah vyas ji ne kaha he chhas pe gopiyo ne bhagvan ko nachaya tha us tarah aap ke liye bhi hajir ho jayega. aap ananya bhav se pukaro dharsan kya vo khud hajir rahega aap ke liye. ek arag he aap ke liye. log:- mohobat me har jane per log nasib ki bat karte he kabhi khuda se mohobat ki hoti tho ye sikayat nahi hoti. [ramchandra] -------------- It is always better to keep things simple. 1. One has darshan of God whenever one likes if one chooses to. Since everything in this Universe is contained in God and God is contained in anything that exists in the universe, whatever one sees with one's eyes, dreams or feels or understands is nothing but God. However, if one is not satisfied with that simple realization of God, one can try the complicated way of Darshan : just think of any particular form of God that is best to your liking, concentrate and meditate on that form continuously for hours and minutes, you will be able to see that form arising your heart even if your eyes are closed. That seeing of the form of God in your heart is darshan. A more complicated way to have darshan of God is to study Darshan, i.e., the philosophy contained in the Upanishads and Gita again and again and that Gyan will one day help you have darshan of God in everything that you see or you do not see but you can imagine or feel or touch. 2. God has created the universe, so he has imparted the different gunas, properties, tendencies to different human beings, different animals, different plants and different non-living beings like the Sun or the moon or the planets. This differences in beliefs among people also arises from God Himself. He does not change the beliefs. Beliefs are also his creation and imparted in different persons in different ways. If a particular person's beliefs changes at so,any point of time, that change is also caused by his mechanism. Earlier human believes that the Sun revolves round the Earth, now people believe the reverse. The original belief and the change of belief took place only because of God. At some point Balmiki might not have believed in God, later he came to believe in God. Both situations occurred because of God only. Balmiki, like anyone else in this World,did whatever he was destined to do as per the mechanism of God. 3.. When you realize that everything in this creation including you yourself, is essentially different forms that God assumes, you will consider everything in this creation is an integral part of God, you cannot but love everything including yourself. So, if you have darshan of God, you realize that Love is God and therefore you love everything and everyone. But that love is not attachment or affection or for benefit. That Love is an intense, never-ending way of living in which you remain consciously aware that you are in God every moment of your life and look at all actions of yours and others are nothing but the actions of God. You no more keep a separate identity of yourself but merge yourself with the God. You see nothing as Good or bad, as desirable or undesirable, as different from one another. That is pure love where hate, jealousy, anger, sensual desire, differential attachment or affection does not exist. Basudeb Sen ------------------------------- Namaste Sri Naarad Maharishi and to other Sadaks, Four types of Bakthas Bagavan has said. 1) Aarthi, 2)Arthari, 3) Gyani, 4) Gunatheet. Many people does not fall in any one of this 4. So even if you are Aarthi, you are in direct contact with Bagavan in the first stage of Bakthi. Then slowly one develops to Jhani. Bagavan HIMSELF has said in Geetha that HE can uplift any Jeeva by HIS sankalpa. So if a person fits into any one of this four stages of Bakthi, then Bagavan knows the depth of Bakthi and gives Dharshan. In Visnupuran, there was a saint Govindsamy. He did penance, Bagavan appeared. Samy said, `'I don't want money, family, property etc except YOU". Bagavan said, " I have given much wealth, good family and ample money". Saying so Bagavan disappeared. It says further that Bagavan read only the mind NOT the words. This Samy had in mind all that in mind, but in words he said I don't want this and that. He could have said like Prahalad, "Oh Bagavan your Dharshan is enough". So a person can be Aarthi, but in his mind if there should deep craving for God, he gets Dharshan. Persni Suthapa prayed to Maha Vishnu and on Dharshan, they said 3 times that Sri Vishnu should be their child. This was Aarthi with desire. But Dharshan took place. Boon granted. So 1st was Prashni Suthapa, 2cd was Kasyapa and Adithi, 3rd was Vasudev and Devaki. Here also one can note, that boon asked was 3 times and Bagavan to be their child. So Bagavan was child 3 times to them but separated early stage itself. Paramathuma DOES NOT have Raga Devsha (Likes and Dislikes), HE is beyond all this. HE said that HE likes JHANI does not mean HE does not like you and me. It means that Bagavan says that Jhani has elevated beyond worldly matters and 6 bad Gunaas. So Jhani is good child. So a mother will naturally like good child. But at same time she WILL NOT discard the other children, but she will pay little more attention on other knotty children to uplift them. In fact Bagavan HIMSELF has said, that Jhani however will elevate and reach ME, but I (Bagavan) want the other ones to set into Bakthi, so I (Bagavan) will pay more attention to others THAN Jhani. This is Narayaneeyam, Garudapuran, Padmapuran and in Ekadasa Skandh of Srimath Bagavatham Etc. "Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan.'', it posted is about Jhani only. Sadak could have noted this. The word CLEAVER is meant the other side of Ego. Say a person thinks he is cleaver, which cleverness in that person indicates he is superior to others. To avoid this Cleverness of thought, it is said so. Please bear with me, If I should at mistakes B.Sathyanarayan PRIOR POSTING Hari OmMy this response should be taken by sadhaks as a healthy satsanga argument only. That is why we all are in Satsanga ! Vasudev Sathyanarainji, you said:"In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge."Your 'personal opinion', I am afraid is not supported by Gita, Scriptures and by Saints and Sages ! Be certain on this. Believe me , you are merely looking at world with an egoist glass on your own eyes ! When I said : We are Royal Prince, it was not an egoistical statement but it was a reminder to all sadhaks: We are sons/ daughters of the Kings of all Kings ! We need never be beggars ! I repeat we need never be beggars ! Surrender is not begging ! Prayers (you have referred many in your message) are not beggings. They are exercise of rights by children before their Father. If your grand son or son can be said to be begging before you, then a Bhakta also can be said to be begging before Lord !Every desire is bad including at final stage of sadhana even for darshanas of God ! You can keep desire during sadhan period (because it is need/necessity) but in the end throw the dust as well as broom out of house ! Are you aware, where does such begging lead a man to? He starts begging to God and starts asking God to give him more money, so that he can donate more !! This is an example of fall of a human from the level of Royal Prince to the level of a beggar ! Do you agree? It is another matter that God calls such 'Artharthi' also a Bhakta and 'kind' ! A sadhak even 'gives' to God rather than begging. He gives his belief, shraddha, vishwas to God. He gives "Mineness" to God !! Mineness of a particular sadhak towards God can be given to God only by that particular Sadhak and by no body else ! God is deficient to that extent! By giving 'mineness' Bhakta fills that deficiency of God. Why does God help those sadhaks who surrender to Him? Because , God has strength but not 'weakness' ! Thus a sadhak gives to God what God does not have viz weakness ! HUMAN BIRTH has not been given to you for begging. It has been given to you for 'giving,giving and giving' ! In human birth, God ( Vaaman) seeks alms from Bhaktas !!Are you aware God awaits eagerly a sadhak to say : O Father, I am yours, you are Mine ? Swamiji once said , after surrendering if you see faults in yourself: Call Him (pray) and say : Jaayegi Laaj Tihaari Raam, Mero Kya Bigadego ( You will lose your fame, O Lord, what will I lose?)This is RIGHT of Bhakta! This is the height to which a Bhakta only can rise ! Come On !Now to say a sadhak is not 'clever' ( inspite of Swamiji using the word 'cleverness' in a positive/innocent sense) merely represents an over wisdom/ negativity/ego and a tendency to criticise for the sake of criticising. This is seeing the world as we are ! Nothing, nothing more than that ! Argue on this, with all of your strength if you can ! Anybody else can join freely in right spirit to argue ! I promise , I will not back away from arguments and will accept the truth , if proved wrong ! Welcome ! Pranaams ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------- WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE 'SUN' DOES NOT RISE FOR EVEN ONE DAY ?!THIS WORLD WILL FREEZE TO DEATH ALL VEGETATION WILL DIE AND THERE WILL BE DISASTER ! IF ANYONE ASKS ME TO SHOW 'GOD' I WILL PROUDLY SHOW THE SUN AND PROCLAIM THAT 'HE' IS MY GOD AS HE LOOKS AFTER THIS WORLD EVERYDAY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD DEPENDS ON THE SUN FOR ITS VERY EXISTENCE!WHEN IT IS WINTER ALL FEEL THE COLD IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION, WHEN IT IS SUMMER ALL FEEL THE WARMTH IRRESPECTIVE OF ANY RELIGION AND WHEN IT RAINS THE RAIN DROPS FALL ON EVERYBODY IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTE CREED OR RELIGION ! LET US ALL UNITEDLY STAND UP AND SALUTE "THE SUN" AND PROCLAIM HIM AS OUR UNIVERSAL 'GOD' AS THIS SINGLE STEP WILL BURY ALL RELIGIONS AND REMOVE ALL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS . THERE IS NO RELIGION GREATER THAN HUMANITY AND THE 'SUN' GOD CAN UNITE THIS WORLD AND BRING RELIEF TO THE HUMANITY FOREVER. MAKE CONCENTRATED EFFORTS TO UNITE THIS TROUBLED WORLD,SO THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVERAFTER ! K.V.SATYAMURTY------------------------ Jai HanumanOnce Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj said: If somebody asks- How is world ? The reply is : As you are !! If you are good, the world will appear good to you. If you are bad, the world will appear bad to you ! Says Rahimdasji:Taahi Aheer ki chhokarian, chhachhia bhari chhaas pe naach nachavat !(To that Lord who is all powerful, the King of all Kings) - the Gopis of Braj used to make Him dance for a cup of butter milk !What was the strength of Gopis ? Prem ! Desireless Prem! It is desirelessness which gets you God not begging ! No opinions about the same !Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala----- Dandavat pranams.... All glories to Sri Sri guru and Gauranga.....I have been wanting to comment on this discussion......particularly as one sadhak has brought up suggestion that I find to be unpalatable. I saw it written that "to desire to have darshan of Bhagavan is bad".....this I cannot agree with. The Supreme Lord is our friend.....friend means happy times together, loving exchanges (giving gifts, offering nice food stuffs, talking confidentiallly.....as mentioned in verse four of Sri Upadesamrta, by Rupa Goswami.....dadati pratignati, guhyam ahkyati prchatti....bhukte bojayate chaiva, sad vidham pritti laksanam) If we have a dear friend (or Friend), we certainly want to spend time with that Person. It can never be considered bad...... In Bhagavad Gita As It Is, ch 18 verse 54, one very famous verse....brahma-bhutah prasannatma, na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu, mad-bhaktim labhate param....."One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me." In the purport to this verse, given by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, it is stated that , "to the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhuta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further, to become engaged in pure devotional service." In pure devotional service, there are very specific terms and characteristics for loving service in the mood of separation, and in the mood of union. " Vipralambha" rasa is the mellow of separation, and union is called "sambhoga". Both states have very specific symptoms and characteristics....but there cannot be one without the other. One cannot have a mood of separation without the hope and aspiration to one day again be with one's beloved. And when there is union, or time spent together, with Krsna, there is always awareness that again, vipralambha (or viraha) will follow, making the meeting more special. If we accept that God is our friend, we should know that there are different levels of loving relationships....mentioned in the scriptures as santa (neutrality), dasya (servitorship), sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (friendship), and madhurya (conjugal love).. There are certainly different veiwpoints on how to love and serve the Absolute, and I pray I have not offended any person of different belief by my words.....simply I do not wish any sadhak to be thinking that if they want to see their dearmost Friend, it is a bad thing. Even in this world, we desire to see those whom we feel love and affection for....how could it be wrong to wish to see that Person who is eternally our wellwishing companion, guide, beloved; our everything? respectftully, Maha Laksmi Dasi ---------------------------- joy, joy, joy 'witnessing ' the ananda that does not wax or vane'witnessing' the witness of right and wrong .............naga leads narinder into the joy where 'right' and 'wrong ' cease to be .....................only the Natkhat playing His flute the soundless sound of Aum singing the song of Love .............blessed is naga ................. naga no more .....................narayana .......................... narayana no more ..................the ever expanding word that Brahaman is .......................smiling at Himself now as naga .......................... now as narayana ..................ah !joy, joy joy ......O sadhakas true , narinder exhorts you ..................stop seeking outside what is already within you are that tat twam asi ............revel, my friends, in the Mahahvakya .........." Aham Brahamasmi.... Aham Brahamasmi ............... aham brahamasmi "and, IF .......................................................my friends, the 'happenning' does not happen .............. eclipsed by the self that knows not the selfwalk the Path ...............be yourself..................accept yourself .................love yourself ................Karamyoga is the Way Bhakti is the WayGyana-yoga is the Way .......AUMMeditation is the WayAUMnarinder bhandari ----------------- Narain ! Narain !! Shri Sathyanarainji ! You are confusing , in my humble view, between the types of Bhaktas. Your Bhakti is defined in Gita as that of "Aart" or "Artharthi" Bhakti. In this Bhakti in order to get rid of sorrows or in order to get more and more money Bhaktas instead of relying upon the world and worldly people , seek money and relief from sorrows from Bhagwaan. The examples given by you of Gajendra etc are that of Aarta bhaktas. There are Jnani and Curious Bhaktas also! But Paramatma likes Jnani Bhaktas most...and He says so in Gitaji also. Refer Gitaji 7:17. However , I could not understand why you should link the types of Bhaktas with EGO ! I also fail to appreciate such a sharp response by you to the use of word "clever" (word used by Param Shraddheya Swamiji is chatur in His discourse, which was translated to clever). I have no doubt that IF YOU WANT TO REALISE GOD....you have to become Jnani Bhakta...you have to become totally desireless. I am certain and can give you more examples from Scriptures to support this. In fact, desirelessness is PRE REQUISITE for Darshanas of God ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad Maharishi -------------------- Jai Shree Krishna Here the subject was not SAADHAN BHAKTI BUT SADHYA BHAKTI. CLEVER means DAKSHA ( Refer BG 12: 16) ! Note for ever- Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj would never use a single inappropriate word. Yes! There have been many Bhaktas refusing to ask anything from God. Swami Rupesh Kumar ---------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS is necessary for God Realisation and for Darshanas of God! TOTAL DESIRELESSNESS means and includes not desiring even Darshanas of God. Dozens of verses from Gitaji and from Bhagvatam can be cited to prove. There is nothing wrong in Swamiji calling those desireless Bhaktas to be "clever" ! Before UTTARA even knew of Brahmashtra sent by Ashwatthama, Lord Krishna had decided to save Parikshit !! Doesn't the Lord already know what we want/desire? Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi ----------------------------- PRIOR POSTING -Shree Hari-Namaste!I have contemplated upon two references:Srimadbhagavadgita/Essence of Yogavaasishtha.After granting Arjuna, mystic vision, he saw 'The Supreme Lord', in his Cosmic Form. Arjuna was not at that point prepared for what he saw, the whole universe in its dynamic form, and was petrified, Sadhaks are acquainted with Ch 11 Bhagavadgita,now refer to Verses 52---54:It is exceedingly difficult to observe this form of Mine. Even the Gods are always,keen to behold it.Neither by study of the Vedas, nor by penance, nor charity, or ritual could I be reviewed in this form, as you have.By unswerving devotion only can I be seen in this form (with four arms) and known in its essence and even its merger, O scorcher of foes.Now I particularly like Swamiji's comment on these verses:Sadhaka-Sanjivani (Eng.) page 1318.Exclusive devotion also means, no dependence on adoration or meditation, or spiritual discipline, for God-realization. Then why to worship the Lord and meditate on Him? These are the means to do away with one's pride. When pride is destroyed, the Lords grace, manifests itself and it is by His grace, that a devotee attains Him.Yogavaasishtha, (Story of Suraghu) Verse 38:On dissolution of the mind and egotism, there irises that greatest delight which which is the manifestation of the Supreme Being, existing in all objects (or living creatures).Love and devotion to Bhagwan, focus to reach a point whereby Divine Grace touches one.Om... Shanti...Mike. (K).---- Dear Sadaks, Swamiji Himself has said to ask Bagavan for love, devotion, faith Etc. There were so many Bakthas craved only for Dharshan of Bagavan. I can quote many. Bagavan has said about Karmiyartha Bakthi, which is conditional expectations of material benefits. But Bagavan HIMSELF has said he is also HIS baktha. The reason being that a man can start with conditional love, but eventually ends up with Nishkama Prema Bakthi (Unconditional, under any circumstances even if one looses his child wife or family, becomes beggar, but that man` s love grows rather than diminishing.) We are separated from GOD due to our Karmas by taking a body. The desire to reach HIM is natural and spontaneous. We are certainly beggars and let Bagavan be our only King. Gopies had desires for Bagavan, Vithur had, so many saints had, in fact so many saints begged Bagavan to liberate them. Examples are numerous, but One for the present. A vaisnavite saint called Kuratharvar begged Bagavan like this, " Oh Bagavan, it seems you saved that Elephant Gajender from Crocodile. Normally Elephant is egoistic, but I have SIX fold ego than that Gajendra that is Kama-Krodha-Loba-Madha Etc. Wont you save me from this clutches of this 6 fold arrogance." The knowledge of God is in front of us is mostly dangerous. Example: Sri Krishna pretended to have headache. Naradh rishi came and inquired. Bagavan said HIS head ache will go on applying the dust from the feet of any Baktha. Naradh said he cannot oblige as it sin to do so. Rumani Matha, Sathybama Etc said the same. Because they all had knowledge that the Bagavan is in front. But the Sri Krishna said to bring the dust from the feet of Gopies. Gopies trampled mud with Love and gave a bag of dust saying that they are ready to do anything to releave Bagavan headache. Kuchela went to beg Bagavan. Sri Hanuman begged Sri Ram to give him undisturbed bakthi on Ram Naam. Kunthi begged Bagavan. Uthara begged Bagavan to save her child (Parikhit) from in womb. Kunthi begged Bagavan at the end to give her sorrows always. Bishma begged. In my personal opinion, I am beggar and I wish that Bagavan be my King. I beg Bagavan NOT to give me ego any time under any circumstances. Let us not think that we are Royal prince and get Ego even without our knowledge. Niskama Prema Bakthi is spontaneous and unconditional love says Bagavan. A devote is never clever. The thought of being cleaver is enough to put us down. This cleverness is seen by others but not by the one who is cleaver. One Example: Markanda Maha Rishi was doing penance in Badrinath. Sri Vishnu appeared and said, " Markandeya you done good penance and I appeared. Ask me a boon." Markanda asked Bagavan to show what is Vishnu Maya. Sri Vishnu showed Maya later part of life. The Sri Vishnu asked Markandeya, "Are you happy". Markada said, "Oh Bagavan it was YOU wish to appear to me and YOUR wish to give me boon and YOUR wish that I did penance and nothing I have done". Sri Vishnu said, "There is no Ego absolutely and I bless you". Then Bagavan Sankara and Maatha Paarvathi also came there and blessed Markandeya. B.Sathyanarayan --- Hari Om'Prem' only is 'Radha/Gopi Tattva' ! Paramatma is hungry for Prem. In Prem 'bhava' (inner sentiment) is only of giving, giving and giving. In Prem there is 'nitya yoga' ( always connection) ! Both Darshans and Antardhyaan (connection and disconnection) are in 'nitya yoga' ! The bliss which you get say in this attraction : "This watch is mine , I should get it" ( viz in Prem) that bliss is not there in the knowledge that 'this is watch'( viz in Darshanas) ! In Prem , the knowledge becomes tasteless !The examples given by me of Sethji and Bhaiji getting Darshanas , was examples of their 'not desiring Darshanas' but getting Darshanas because God so willed ! God wanted His work to be done by them ( spreading of 'Nishkaam bhava' and 'naam japa' respectively) ! You can rise to those heights, in human life. Any desire is bad even when it is desire of God Himself. Because God spread His hands before Baali , He got the name of 'Vaaman' ( small) !! Desire instantly makes you small !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B -------------------------- Jai HanumanMaharajji said:The bliss of union (darshana) with God is indescribable. But in 'viyog' with Him also there is similar bliss. In Yoga (connection) , there is Viyoga (Disconnection) , and in Viyoga there is Yoga ! How?In yoga there is no 'tripti' (satisfaction) and in viyoga, there is no 'vismruti' ( forgetting) !! This state arises only in Prem, not in Jnana ! In Jnana, there is indivisible Ananda, while in Prem with indivisible Ananda there is also continuously increasing Ananda - Dine Dine Navam Navam ( Day Day New New) ! Thirst is not different from element called water. But Ananda is in thirst not in water! In the worldly thirst there is sorrow, but in Divine thirst there is Ananda of highest order! Only Premi Bhaktas can know this , not Jnani Bhaktas.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ------------------------------- Nishaji,Narinderji's inimitable poetic revelation on The Self (and the NOT-SELF!) doesnot need my interpretation and my interpretation does not suffice to explain thedepths of such a blissful experience either. I salute the absolute reverence andappreciation that springs out from his core existence toward his Guruvakaya aswell as the Shrutivaakya with the sweetness unique to his truthful experience.What I understand from his excalamtions is nothing different from what Iunderstand from the Upanishads …Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyahNa medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |You cannot 'behold' The God (or The Self) as the very act of beholding belongsto the mechanisms that enable the same - mind, senses, body, etc. The Self orThe Absolute cannot be fathomed by any of such instruments as they are NOTdesigned for beholding anything beyond them:Paraanchikhaani vyatriNaatsvayambhooh |Tasmaatparaangpashyati naantraatman ||But yet, when the same instruments suspend their excitations, The Self bloomsitself in the very instrument because The Self is inseparable from any. THATblooms in the one who dissolves in THAT unconditionally … when it blooms atone's core being, it blooms in every atom of one's existence:Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyahTasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanum svaam ||That supreme state is when all your cognitive opparatus transcends its ownlimits by coming to its natural state of silence as such. THE SILENCE is theonly fathomable solution to one who looks for The Absolute ... but, beware thatTHE SILNCE talked of here is not the silence that you and me think of ... it isTHAT beyond all our congnitive and incognitive limits:Yadaa panchaavatishThante gnyaanaani manasaa saha |Buddhishcha na vicheshTate taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||The more you try to explore and identify what The God is, more cocooned you getin the resulting beliefs. Never try to fathom what THAT could be - one, youcannot; two, you need not. You, just like anything else in this univerese, isalso THAT. Therefore, disengage from all your beliefs and notions to be what youare ... then YOU ARE THAT (Tattvamasi!):Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasyana chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam |Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptahya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||THAT is NOT what any mind could ever fathom … think of the very basis withinwhich the very mind is fathomed … think of THAT within everything known as wellas unknown could ever be fathomed ... verily THAT ALONE IS THE BRAHMAN. Neverdelude yourself to believe in anything else as THAT. Just like the senses orthoughts cannot fathom the mind in which they are fathomed, the mind also cannotfathom THAT within which it is fathomed:Yanmanasaa na manute yena aahurmano matam |Tadeva brahmam tadviddhi nedam yadidamupaasate ||We can keep revelling in the ocean of the abundant knowledge overflowing fromour great scriptures and saints … but, have you fathomed THAT with all these?ALL remains waste unless we do experience what is taught ... thousands of yearsof hearing and talking is not enough as Swamiji quotes,Baavara bed bidusha baavariya pothee pustak phandaa ||Therefore, as Narinderji suggests himself, do put an end to all the questionsand do experience the silence there of … yadaa panchaavatishThante … tadevabrahmam taddviddhi … THE SILENCE beyond all our cognition is THE BRAHMAN, THEABSOLUTE, THE TRUTH, THE BHAGAVAAN, THE KRISHNA, ...In symmary, whatever that is transacted through one's cognitive mechanism cannotbe THAT. Only when the cognitive inquisition halts, THAT reveals in fullblossom. I think that is what Narinderji means. Narinderji, pl. correct me if Iam misled.Respects.Naga Narayana ------- Dear Geetha Devotees, I am fortunate to meet a lady farmer -Thavudammal who has Dharsan of Lord krishna 3 times. She is maintaining about 200 cattle in her farm in avillage near Sivakasi in Tamil Nadu. .First Dharsan was Lords feet alone. Second dharsan of Lord as a small child- Bala krishna. Third time as a teenager with flute . Then regularly or some occasions she is able to interact with Krishna and recieve correct knowledge or answers from Him. Accordingly she changed her diet into satvic without vegetables, with out acidic food, worshipping only Krishna , not disposing aged cows or bulls but maintaining till the point of death, feeding all creatures including rats and dogs .She is alos giving due respect or follow horoscopic way of life according to dasa ,Bhutti and start important work on auspicious days. She is convinced of past birth/ karma and recieved insights of many person about their last birth or karma. She is an example of true saranagathi . This type of way of life certainly bring such elevation to those who follows - which is more practical for a wordly life of devotees rather than reading a lot with out adhering the truth or following other spiritual paths which may be suitable for sanniyasis or bramacharis. Ultimaytely those are blessed who is able to recive knowledge or answers or directions from Him for even day today affairs. This is more less a state like Ramakrishna paramhamsa able to speak with Kalidevi and follow accordingly. It requires Geeta way of life . When we are fully adhering simple life with high spiritual values certainly we are nearing Lord and one day or other He may answer our needs whith accumulation of Punniya karma by doing good deeds or so. With kind regards, Sincerely,P.Vivekanandan, ---------------------------- I m very much wonderstruck at the dreams of Sadhakas who aspire for Divine Desires just like CHHOO MANTRA. I would request Devotees to go inside the bathroom for viewing their clear face in the mirror. Sometimes mirror is dust covered, sometimes there is no proper light, just to see once own face in the mirror. Like wise Sashaka desireous of "BHAGWAN DARSHAN" have to clean / purify his own inner screen of mind where one could precieve the image "MAN MELLA TAN UJLA" and have to purify his "MAL and WIKHEP" i.e. purify his actions "KARMAS" give up one's own undue desires "TRISHNAIN" and control vikars "KAAM" + "KIRODH" + "LOBH" + "MOH" + AHANKAR". to identitify with HM. As I have read and understnd from the scriptures, it takes many births to be able to have "BHAGWAN DARSHANAS". Bondage of ATMA & SUBTLE BODY is very complecated.This Sansara is very strange, beyond ordinary understanding, every jigyasu has to look within in confirmity with "VEDAS" and "GITAJI" teachings. Hari Motwani ------------------------------- ================================ PRIOR POSTING Hari OmAny desire is bad, including for even Darshanas of God ! Necessity is of "mineness" with Paramatma , He should be likeable to/ liked by you. A true Lover nevers seeks reciprocation. Our goal has to be "Love" (Prem) with Him. This 'Love' automatically arises in you due to 'mineness' with Paramatma ! There is no 'action'/ 'effort' at your end. Hence important is your mineness with Him not His darshanas. Any demand is bad and at the point of arising itself lowers you- makes you a beggar !! In any case, this world is first incarnation ( Avataar) of Paramatma ! Oh ! What a bliss it should impart to you, if you start seeing God in every one? God in front of you all the time, always ... ! Where then is the need for being a beggar? We are the children of the King of all Kings !! We are not beggars ! We are Lovers !! We are Royal Prince !!!Hence Swamiji said -"Therefore a clever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meeting or not meeting." Lord Hanuman preferred to remain in world and decided that wherever there is 'Raam Katha' in the world , He shall be present. Characters like Kaak Bhusandi in Ramayana (dozens of examples can be given) sought "Bhakti" from God when they got Darshanas. What is Bhakti? Liking the God ! What else ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------ I have a desire to see Bhagavan Ram. When I delve deeper, that desire is not born due to love towards Ram. If I truly loved Ram, then I would be extremely eager to remember Him, see Him etc.I want to see Ram so that I can think of myself as great devotee. It is because of the ego.I want to feel special.Anyways, that is the reason for me to see Ram. When ego subsides, then I don't have desire to see Ram.Ram is everywhere and in everyone. I just want to remember Him, reduce my attachment to this world and increase my attachment to Ram.If I follow above, then Ram will take care of the rest. (yoga ksema vahamyaham) Gaurav Mittal ------------- I would like to thank Sri Vyasji for this wonderful email. What is "yugal upasana"? Vyasji or others, could you elaborate on that? Thank you very much.Ram Ram,Gaurav Mittal -------------------------- beauteously, have nagajee, pratapjee, vyas jee, vineetjee, and, all the sadhaks of Joy and Love that is God, shared their experience .................. shared their experiencing ................................. experiencing is Real................... the experiencer and the experience arise on either end ........ loving is real, the lover and the beloved arise as the Joy of loving ...................... dancing is Real.............. when dancing stops, the dancer and the dance are no more !!!!! AUM narinder bhandari ------------------ SOMEONE rightly said " in hindi" EKEY SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB SADHEY SAB JAYE i respect these words very much till date though almost 18 years have passed since i heard these Rahul ------------------------- Jai HanumanI am not fully convinced reg: the statement made by Anirudhji Joshi re : Belief. Why a distinction should be drawn between what relates with Daddy the Great and what does not relate with Him? "Tashya tashyachalam shraddhaam " stated in BG 7:21 ?For millions and trillions of eons , the Jeeva is loitering ! Had Daddy been interfering in their beliefs, Jeevas would not have sufferred for that long ! Swamiji would never forget to qualify a statement, if need be or here He is talking only with reference to a state of Devotee in front of Daddy the Great, the demand of Devotee ? Only with reference to that demand ? May be Joshiji is referring to a 'stupidity' as a 'belief' or may be he is not !!Then there is "Bhootani yanti Bhootejya" referred in BG 9:25 ! What do Learned Sadhaks have to say ?Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------------- Fellow learners,I am immensely pleased with Hari Shankara Deo. If one wishes to see the SupremeBeing, It can be found both inside and outside, it is far away and very close toyou, It moves and is static. It is present in the smallest sub atomic particleand at the same time it can occupy the whole space.(refer to Eesaavaasyopanishatand chapter 8 of Bg). It is as Shri Deo said, is all pervasive. "Visvam Vishnuh"is the first of countless names of It. Mokhs or release is not obtained fromreading scriptures, listening to discourse etc (Refer to Kathopanishat 2.23. Onehas to become Sarva bhoota hite rataa, sarvatra sama buddhayah and sarvaBhootaatma Bhootaatma to become eligible for Brahma Bhooyaaya Kalpate. All theseare terms used in Guta as prerequisites to "see" the Supreme Being.Seein a stone in certain shape can nver be equivalent to seeing the SupremeBeing. It is like seeing a musquito that once landed on an Elephant and claimingthat the musquito is Elephant. Kindly refer to 4.19 of Sveta Asva taraUpanishat, whch says Na tasya pratima Asti. Ofcourse it can be inter preted asThee is nothing equal to it. TRY TO SEEIT EVERY WHERE AND IN EVERY ONE. tHEN ALONE ONE CAN "SEE" IT.Krishna Samudrala --------------------------------SATIETY is a bliss for those who never seek it Rahul ================================== PRIOR POSTING Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one is overwhelmed by reverence for whatever IS, one is beholding God! If one is overwhelmed by Unconditional Love, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by the Silence of mind, one is beholding God!If one is overwhelmed by Joy that knows no cause, one is beholding God!One is beholding God only because God is beholding such a ONE!Namaskar..................Pratap Bhatt =========================== 1) When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?One could behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God) … when nothing else (in otherwords, absolutely nothing) is held in one's vision (Darshan) … when one does nothave any desire to behold anything in one's vision as such … when any vision andevery vision becomes the same ... when the very desire to behold anything isdissolved completely.One 'beholds' the Bhagavaan when lets oneself 'beheld' completely in THE SAME... when the difference between the individual and Bhagavaan is completelymitigated ... when any difference between the individual and anything else iscompletely mitigated ... when the very duality, the differences between theperceived objects and worlds, is obliterated at its core.Na sandrishe tishThati roopamasya | na chakshushaa pashyati kashchanainam ||2) Also per Gitaji, Swamiji says - It is Bhagwaan's (God)nature, that he doesnot destroy anyone's beliefs. Therefore if we believe we cannot behold Bhagwaanin this life, then Bhagwaan will not destroy that belief of ours.The belief of beholding the Bhagavaan is the paradox of its nemesis - belief ofnot beholding the Bhagavaan. Both are equally beheld within the Bhagavaan andboth are equally inadequate to behold the Bhagavaan as well. How can theALL-INCLUSIVE Bhagavaan destroy anything at all?! Nothing can be taken away fromHim ... even He cannot throw anything away!! All beliefs are acceptable to theBhagavaan as they all are absorbed within Him eternally ... yet, no belief canencompass (behold) Him as they all remain eternally momentary.PoorNamadah poorNamidam poorNaat poorNamudhachyate |PoorNasya poorNamadaaya poorNamevaavashishyate ||3) Also a clever and vigilant devotee only desires Love, not beholding Bhagwaan(God).Therefore, a vigilant devotee would never entertains any idea of beholding theBhagavaan (by experience and awareness) … just lets oneself dissolve in theocean of life as one with the same … merging in the Bhagavaan at once and oncefor all. This absolute merger that does not leave any trace of the individualback is verily THE LOVE that is talked of in great awe here. A devotee wouldonly look forward to the dissolution of one's own identity forever ... nothingelse ... no more beholding as the very beholding holds the individuality up inone's perception.Hridaa maneeshaa manasaabhiklriptah | Ya etadviduramritaaste bhavanti ||Respects.Naga Narayana -------------------------------- Hari Om"Insight" only those can give who have had darshanas of Him. Let me therefore state what I have read / heard. During the 2oth century at least three close friends from Soil of India, realised Paramatma and at least 2 had 'darshanas' of God. Sethji Jaidayalji Goendka was earlier "Brahmavaadi" (Striver of Nirgun Niraakar). God, suo motto out of His sweet will, gave 'darshana' to Sethji. Sethji at that time was in Churu (Rajasthan) and because of fever was lying on a cot with a blanket on body. There he got "Chaturbhuj Bhagwaan" Darshana. (A Form of God with four hands) ! When God manifests, no wall or veil can obstruct Him. Sethji got 'romaanch' ( excessive thrill) and 'ashrupaat' (incessant huge flow of tears) . A 'bhava' came in his mind that God wants to tell him" Spread Nishkaam Bhava" in the world. Thereafter he changed from "Brahmavaadi" (Nirgun Nirakar) to "Ishwarvaadi" (Sagun Sakaar) ! But he never preached "yugal upasana" ( twin striving) ! In speaking Truth , Sethji was very famous and well known.Sethji was Founder of Gita Press Gorakhpur. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj was very close to him. He was elder to Swamiji. Swamiji always very respectfully and affectionately remembered him till the end. Bhaiji ( Hanuman Prasadji Poddar) also had 'darshanas' of God. Whatever God told him, it got published by "Divya Sandesh" ( Divine Message) ! He got command from God of spreading the glory of "Naam Japa" ! Sethji and Bhaiji both were cousins ( their mothers were sisters) !In fact Swamiji also studied and strived in the beginning on "Nirgun Nirakaar" only. Later on , He realised that Bhakti is supreme and final goal. "Brahma" is "abha" (reflection) of Bhagwaan only. The power of feeding and nourishing all is in Paramatma (Ishwar) not in Brahma. By getting Brahma you get completeness but you donot get "Param Prem" ( ever increasing Divine Love) ! "Tattva Jnana" is "Atma Jnana"! After "Atma Jnana" (Self Realisation) , one becomes eligible for "Prem" (Paramatma Jnana) ! In Shrimad Bhagavatam ( 1/7/10) it is said:Those whose 'chijjad granthi' (Jeevahood) has been severed, such 'atmaram munis' ( liberated ) also do selfless/expectationless "nishkaam bhakti"; because the attributes (Gunas) of Bhagwaan are such that they attract people towards them. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram When the desire arose, then there was darshan of Bhagwaan. We cannot behold God in this life, this is not a belief. It is false (artificial). To speak of that which is false, is as good as wasting our time. A devotee is not clever, rather he is by nature sincere and undeceitful. For a devotee to behold God, or to attain Love, can it be in his hands? What God does and does not do, what can man know and discuss about this. Now that we have accepted that we are God's, now what remains in our hands? Whatever is God's will, that alone is our will, and that alone will happen. Is it possible for something else to happen? so be it, Vineet Sarvottam ------------------ Who is eligible to see Parama Atma and what is seeing IT? The Supreme Being isnot an object like a table or chair or Shilp Shetty etc. So seeing IT can not bein the biological and light theory sense. Seeing is understanding or realizingIts Tattva. That is why Lord tells Arjuna Na tu maam sakyase drashtum anena evasva cakshushaa" - 11.8 Gita (Gitaji sounds so aetificial). How do we realize orunderstand Its Tattva? The solution to this problem is in Slokas 11.48, to 55,More in my next Post.Krishna samudrala--------------------- There is no Bhagwan hanging in the sky. Parmatma is all pervasive and cannot be seen. Conversely what is not Bhagwan? But then all things which perish are illusions. Can one behold or have darshan of God? Yes after one has made oneself ready to have darshan, God may manifest in the form visualised by the devotee. However this happens after long periods of meditation after which one gets enlightenment. We have examples of great ones like the Buddha who went through years of meditation before he became enlightened. Also he had to go through a hundred births (Bodhisattavas) before he finally took birth as Siddharth. Hari Shanker Deo ----------------------- Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! The Q by Moderators is based on the poetry written by Bhandariji. Otherwise Revered Swamiji had answered all the Qs beyond doubt. Bhandariji you starts with: WHEN THE MIND STOPS ASKING ANY Qs. But does mind ever stop? Neither Gita nor any Scriptures have suggested a state like that. Mind may become dispassionate but to STOP ! Unheard of in Spiritual terms at least. Only one Q is genuinely due for deliberation then. Paramatma habitually not breaking a belief. Here the belief is in Him or related with Him only which appears to be referred. Not the funny beliefs which we all carry with reference to the World/ worldly things/ people. Those beliefs Paramatma keeps breaking at astounding intervals. It is only when you form a belief with Paramatma in the picture, that belief is NEVER broken by Him. But, for example...you connect with the world and He will ensure disconnection ! Rely upon any worldly people ....you will get DHOKHA....DHOKHA !! But if you believe with reference to Him, His appointed Demi Gods, ...He will ensure that your belief is strengthened. Therefore, if you do not believe in God...He will not break your belief. But if you believe in world...it is bound to be broken !! Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!! Anirudh Joshi -------------------- Radhey! Radhey !! Mr. Bhandariji. I am not able to understand anything from the poetry. Naga Narayanaji can help us understand? Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji --------------------------PRIOR POSTINGWhen the Mind stops asking all questionsand in the silent mind,in the joy of being,arises in youthe Ultimate Question, " Who am I ?"the only True Question.............As the birth of the Question, you witnessin awe and wonderNeither waiting for the answer, nor seeking,with the Mind.................When the Mind goes mute ....................and the wonderment keeps expandingdissolving the Mind in Joy..............................In that Silence, is beheld the Lord !!!God, you behold, as Silence softly speaks,there is No answer, nariNothing to seekNothing to knowThe question itselfContains the answerHidden In its embraceAnd the answerRemainsEver and ever the QuestionThe answer un-knowable.and so, nari,if your being asks the questionand , having asked,revels in the un-answering Silenceits own sourceits own selfthe not-selfnari would know himselfas the Knower truewho does not knowand yet knows !and in that Silence, which thus lovingly speaksnari's head, in reverence, bows.............AUMnarinder bhandari==========================================: Shree Hari:Ram Ram31st October, 2009, Saturday, Karthik Shukla TrayodashiQuestion: When does one behold (have darshan of) Bhagwaan (God)?Answer: There are three points in this -1) When there is intense inner distress and anxiety and other times there ispeace, then in this state, sometimes one may behold Bhagwaan.2) When there is no desire whatsoever, neither of the world, nor of Paramatma,then one may behold God and3) There is nothing but intense agitation, distress, anxiety, longing to beholdHim, than too you will behold God.If Bhagwaan wants to have some work done through us, then of His own will, Hecan make us have a vision of Him. It is not up to us to behold (have darshan)of Bhagwaan. But acceptance of "I am Bhagwaan's (God's) and Bhagwaan is mine" -is entirely in our hands. That which is in our hands, accept it, then there isno need for anything else.Question: What happens on beholding God (having darshan of Bhagwaan)?Answer: Devotee attains everything that he wants on beholding Bhagwaan -Liberation, Knowledge, Love etc. If a devotee has no insistence of his ownbeliefs, then on having darshan he attains essential knowledge (Self Knowledge /Realization). It is Bhagwaan's nature, that he does not destroy anyone'sbeliefs.On having darshan, whether he attains Self Realization or not, there is nothinglacking in that devotee. If a devotee takes refuge in Bhagwaan, and remainsunder his shelter, then the responsibility of the devotee attaining SelfRealization or the responsibility of removing any limitations in the devoteelies in Bhagwaan's hands. The devotee has no personal quest to know Bhagwaan.Question: There have been many saints who did not give any importance tobeholding Bhagwaan, what is the reasoning behind this?Answer: On having immense love, there is no desire to behold Bhagwaan. This isbecause there is such immense relish, pleasure, joy (ras), intoxication in lovethat the devotee remains blissful in that it self. In comparison to love,beholding God is temporary. Love remains at all times, continuously,uninterruptedly, whereas beholding cannot happen all the time. Therefore aclever devotee only desires love. True relish is in love alone, not in meetingor not meeting. As long as there is desire to meet the lover, till that timetrue love has not been awakened. On awakening of true love, whether the lovermeets or does not meet, there remains no desire.From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 78 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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