How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End

December 7, 2009

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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December 9, 2009

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

December 10, 2009

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

December 14, 2009

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

January 14, 2010

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

January 18, 2010

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari

|| Ram Ram || Dear Kuldipji, thanks for the detailed question.

To the earlier part of the question, many excellent responses have already been posted. For the comparison of Bhoga and Yoga portion of the question, Mr. Naga Narayanji and Meera Dasji pointed out very clearly that the path of Yoga is 180 degrees opposite of the path of Bhoga.

Here are few more points - one can select only one of the two paths, all are free to make that choice. But if one tries to go on both the paths, Bhoga and Yoga simultaneously, the result will be Roga (Disease).

When we are in the path of Bhoga, by mistake we think that we are enjoying but King Bharathari had a different view: " BOGA NA BHUKTA VAYAMEVA BHUKTA", meaning that instead we enjoying the pleasures but the pleasures are enjoying us. Generally, when we enjoy and consume something it should get smaller but our experience says that the Bhogas do not get smaller in fact they get bigger but our ability or power to enjoy the Bhogas diminishes. So it turns out that it is just the reverse of what we assume to be true. It is like when we are in dream state, everything appears to be real as long as the dream lasts. It is only when we wake up, we realize that all of this was not true. In the same way, as long as we are in Bhoga, we believe that Bhoga to be real.

Here is an illustration: Once there was a king, he announced that he will give half of his kingdom if someone can feed a goat to its satisfaction, the king will test to see whether goat is completely fed or not. Many people thought that it is relatively easy thing to do, so they took the goat to the best of the pastures and fed the goat the all day, at the end of the day, the king offered green grass, the goat was started to eat. The all failed, a sage appeared on the scene, he took the goat to the pasture and took a stick with him, as the goat would start to eat, he will hit him with the stick, Throughout the day, he hit the goat many times, at the end of the day, king offered the fresh grass, this time the goat would not even turn to look at the grass. It is simply saying the only way to satisfy desire is to curb it. Then only it can be satisfied, just like the sacrificial fire, as long we keep offering materials and clarified butter, the flames go higher and higher but once we stop the oblations to the fire, fire starts to die down.

In Gitaji: Arjuna asked the question in Verse (3-36), "By what a man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya", Lord Krishna answers in Verse (3-37) - "Desire born of Rajas and anger, the result of thwarted desire, incite an individual to commit sin. Desire is insatiable and it is one great source of sin. Know it to be the arch enemy of man." Chapter 16 of Gitaji describes divine qualities (Verses 1-3) which are deemed for liberation and the demoniac traits (Verses 7-23) are for bondage. Here one point needs attention that in this chapter from verses (7 through 23), the term 'Kama' (desire) has been used nine times in the context of the demoniac nature (16/8, 16/10 -12, 16, 18, 21, 23). therefore one should abandon them. It means that desire is at the root of the demoniac nature. To top things off, the verse 21 says -"The triple gates of hell are desire, anger and greed leading to the ruin of the self; therefore one should abandon them.

Swamiji Maharaj emphasized this point in many of his discourses that the main road blocks in the spiritual path are Bhoga and Sangrah (Hoarding), (Gitaji: Verses 2/ 41-44). The reason is that those who are attached to pleasure and power, their discrimination is stolen away, they cannot attain determined intellect for one pointedness in God.

|| Ram Ram || Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Brother, means and the end are not two separate. As soon as the spiritual discipline begins, the end (Paramatma) remains in the forefront at every moment. Oh! You can not know Ishwar (God) (Manav Maatre Kalyan pg 218), you can only accept/belief Him. Swamiji has said "Everything is only God, this one has to only accept, we cannot know it; because this is not within the realm of ones capacity to understand, rather the understanding (intellect) is within it's realm. (Manav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye pg 219) . Therefore at the final moment, you may think whatever, reflect or meditate on, is there any sadhak that can say that whatever is thought, reflected or meditated on is not Bhagwaan (God)? That everything is only Bhagwaan (God), and besides God there cannot be anything else. If it is not Bhagwaan (God), then what is it? Please explain to me. I will be grateful. So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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PRIOR POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

January 19, 2010

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Friends

The last part of Verse 6th of 8th Chpater is "sada tad bhaw Bhawitah"

One of the interpretation of the above is that man will think only about what he has done or thought throughout his life.It is not possible to alter thought to God/surrender etc if he is away from such thoughts through out his life.

Thoughts move through association and attracts similar thoughts.If one is in Bhog and Yog both ,chances are thoughts about bhog will become stronger and overpower thoughts about Yog,Mind is strong,stubborn and is very difficult to control but is controlled by practice and detachment(verse 34 of 6th chapter).

But we have a choice.We have to make that choice now about our end time and whatever choice we make we have to pay attention to that with strong commitment.Dristdyumna (Dridh Man) or strong mind is the leader of all good traits of man.So,ultimately it is our decision to have strong mind or weak mind.

Kaliyug or Satyug is the state of mind (Chitta) of a person and not the classification of period or ages.Persons aspiring for Sat(permanent,indestructible) are living today in Satyug and People aspiring for Kali(Dark/Black/Tamas) are living today in Kaliyug.We have a choice to live today or tomorrow of this lifetime in kaliyug or satyug.

How to start living in Satyug from tomorrow:-

1)Start reading Gita from tomorrow.Three readings in quick succession is required in shortest possible time.If can be done in 3 months ,well and good.This will provide grounding or anchoring of your soul.

2)Mental Jap of OM all the time.

3)Change company of people from Bhog interested to yog interested.

Lastly,God says 'Tathatsu' (So Be It) to our every thought.

regards & best wishes

Ashok Jain

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

If your question is truely sincere... then adopt these four points by Swamiji... Since you asked, it is now your duty to firmly accept these four points once and for all... and guarantee of spiritual gains it shall be at the end !!!

1) I am nothing,

2) I desire nothing,

3) I have no relation with anyone, and

4) Only God is my very own.

Thereafter a man's salvation is certain.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Hare Krishna,

We are "Mukt", born free, but we tie ourselves as we grow-up. We want to tie others, but in the process we too get tied. For example, as a father we want to control our son (he may be mature enough to take his own decisions), same with other family members like wife etc. We want them to work (not only work but think too) according to our wishes. We are slave of our wishes. So first and foremost step in the path of salvation is to rule our wishes. Wishes should not be suppressed, but we should understand that are we getting something by fulfilling that wish. Even if we fulfil a wish, next moment we will find another wish is knocking our door. Then only we can proceed on the path of salvation.

Ram Ram

Ashok Goenka

There seems to be some sort of stop and go motion in which people are hesitant after reading or listening to the too many spiritual guidances. At the end, one should find that one's own emotions are grounded and levelheaded, making it much easier to deal with. Confusion that is invariably surrounding us, has to be avoided as far as practicable, getting rid of the "Maya" and turn towards "Him" with love in the truest sense. Not to commit any sin, nor taking resort to speaking lies.

I know one great sage who had written on a white piece of paper "I am going,you stay" and sat in a meditating position before leaving the body, not before long, but only in January,5-6,2003 in His ashram at Halisahar, not very far from Kolkata.

What I mean is that it is possible even now in the so called "Kali-yuga",the moment we are made to feel that urgency.

Regards to everybody,

Barin Chatterjee

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No one can guarantee salvation. Even if one is not successful in realizing God, the progress one makes towards that goal makes the person achieve a different life. He/ She may be satisfied with this life-time achievement or he/ she may not.

If he/she is satisfied, it does not matter where he/she is born in the next birth. Because the next birth is a different try/ attempt one has to make to realize God. It is said that the Purva Samskriti (the inheritance of the Stavuic gunas that one developed in the previous birth) could help him / her to continue the progress to the realization of God. Of course much will determine what he actually happens to do in the next birth. Whether this is true or not does not matter. If in this birth, a person has been able to attain a fair degree of equanimity, he/ she would not be at all upset by the possibility of his/ her next birth being as deer or pig or mosquito or tiger or poor beggar in a poor country: for he/she would have realized that every being in this Creation is the same and one should be indifferent to the type of next birth.

If one is not satisfied with his/ her progress towards the path of realization of the Self/ God, he could be still be happy with the progress that he/she has made in this life and would look forward to the next birth to continue to the progress towards the ultimate goal.

Those who are interested in Bhog and wants just to keep themselves fit through practicing Yogic methods of sadhana can at best achieve that goal. The goal of self-realization cannot be achieved through partial devotion to that goal while pursuing

other material goals in life. There could be such Sadhaks who want to develop some mystical / magical powers through Sadhana. They may achieve only that.

The possibility of any thought other than God arising in the mind of a Sadhak arises only if one is still not focused on the single goal of realization of the Self and God. Even when pepole get into accidents, they pray to God before they die. The sadhakas are likely to think of God all the time even while they are eating, discussing, bathing, reading newspaper: so they are unlikely to get into trouble of unwanted rebirth because at the time of death they were sleeping or discussing politics or property. Because at the back of their mind, the thought of God is expected to remain.For example if at the time of death, a person was reading about a criminal's life or the the beauty of a deer, the sadhak is only thinking of these as the Creation of God. If he/she is thinking about investment in property, he is thinking that God has guiding him/ her to take a decision. If he is thinking of eating fish, he is thinking of God instructing him to eat fish.Thus, he has lost his ego to God. The thought of God remains all through. Why should he be worried about what his/ her next life could be.

If a Sadhak is serious in continuing along the path to Salvation, he shall at least be prepared to continue his/ her efforts in the next birth. That resolve is always in the back of his/ her mind. He/ she does not have to worry about what his next birth would be if he happens to think of a jackel or a thief or a murder / rape incident. Even if he/ she happens to be angry at the moment of death, a Sadhak is aware that this is God's play. He/ she has submitted to God.

Basudeb Sen

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Shree Hari

|| Ram Ram || Dear Kuldipji, thanks for the detailed question.

To the earlier part of the question, many excellent responses have already been posted. For the comparison of Bhoga and Yoga portion of the question, Mr. Naga Narayanji and Meera Dasji pointed out very clearly that the path of Yoga is 180 degrees opposite of the path of Bhoga.

Here are few more points - one can select only one of the two paths, all are free to make that choice. But if one tries to go on both the paths, Bhoga and Yoga simultaneously, the result will be Roga (Disease).

When we are in the path of Bhoga, by mistake we think that we are enjoying but King Bharathari had a different view: " BOGA NA BHUKTA VAYAMEVA BHUKTA", meaning that instead we enjoying the pleasures but the pleasures are enjoying us. Generally, when we enjoy and consume something it should get smaller but our experience says that the Bhogas do not get smaller in fact they get bigger but our ability or power to enjoy the Bhogas diminishes. So it turns out that it is just the reverse of what we assume to be true. It is like when we are in dream state, everything appears to be real as long as the dream lasts. It is only when we wake up, we realize that all of this was not true. In the same way, as long as we are in Bhoga, we believe that Bhoga to be real.

Here is an illustration: Once there was a king, he announced that he will give half of his kingdom if someone can feed a goat to its satisfaction, the king will test to see whether goat is completely fed or not. Many people thought that it is relatively easy thing to do, so they took the goat to the best of the pastures and fed the goat the all day, at the end of the day, the king offered green grass, the goat was started to eat. The all failed, a sage appeared on the scene, he took the goat to the pasture and took a stick with him, as the goat would start to eat, he will hit him with the stick, Throughout the day, he hit the goat many times, at the end of the day, king offered the fresh grass, this time the goat would not even turn to look at the grass. It is simply saying the only way to satisfy desire is to curb it. Then only it can be satisfied, just like the sacrificial fire, as long we keep offering materials and clarified butter, the flames go higher and higher but once we stop the oblations to the fire, fire starts to die down.

In Gitaji: Arjuna asked the question in Verse (3-36), "By what a man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya", Lord Krishna answers in Verse (3-37) - "Desire born of Rajas and anger, the result of thwarted desire, incite an individual to commit sin. Desire is insatiable and it is one great source of sin. Know it to be the arch enemy of man." Chapter 16 of Gitaji describes divine qualities (Verses 1-3) which are deemed for liberation and the demoniac traits (Verses 7-23) are for bondage. Here one point needs attention that in this chapter from verses (7 through 23), the term 'Kama' (desire) has been used nine times in the context of the demoniac nature (16/8, 16/10 -12, 16, 18, 21, 23). therefore one should abandon them. It means that desire is at the root of the demoniac nature. To top things off, the verse 21 says -"The triple gates of hell are desire, anger and greed leading to the ruin of the self; therefore one should abandon them.

Swamiji Maharaj emphasized this point in many of his discourses that the main road blocks in the spiritual path are Bhoga and Sangrah (Hoarding), (Gitaji: Verses 2/ 41-44). The reason is that those who are attached to pleasure and power, their discrimination is stolen away, they cannot attain determined intellect for one pointedness in God.

|| Ram Ram || Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Brother, means and the end are not two separate. As soon as the spiritual discipline begins, the end (Paramatma) remains in the forefront at every moment. Oh! You can not know Ishwar (God) (Manav Maatre Kalyan pg 218), you can only accept/belief Him. Swamiji has said "Everything is only God, this one has to only accept, we cannot know it; because this is not within the realm of ones capacity to understand, rather the understanding (intellect) is within it's realm. (Manav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye pg 219) . Therefore at the final moment, you may think whatever, reflect or meditate on, is there any sadhak that can say that whatever is thought, reflected or meditated on is not Bhagwaan (God)? That everything is only Bhagwaan (God), and besides God there cannot be anything else. If it is not Bhagwaan (God), then what is it? Please explain to me. I will be grateful. So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

------- NEW POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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PRIOR POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

January 20, 2010

Ram Ram,I have a question pertaining to this topic. As a Sadhak is engaged in realization for attaining Salvation(Mukti), and he may or may not succeed in his/her endeavors. Now as it is mentioned in Gita at one place that whatever object a person thinks of during end time, he achieves that. Also it is mentioned in the same Gita as well as Shrimad Bhagwat that even a small progress in Sadhna prevents one from great dangers and there are other various adobes where he will be directed to.My question here is, say for some reason if the Sadhna is not successful, meaning God's realization is not achieved but simultaneously sadhna is continuing, and during end time one realizes something other that God, then all this game is going to lead to no where fruitful. Like Maharaj Bharat, since he remembered a Deer during his end life, even though he had reached to an advance level in Sadhna, he was born as a Deer, the whole World knows about it. So in a nutshell, after ruling the entire earth for several hundred years, then due to dispassion leaving everything behind to attain realization, but unfortunately reaching to a Deer body where as he should be reaching to God's adobe. Even though he succeeded in getting a human life again, but what is the use of all these activities if we are going to have a miserable result for not being careful. So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us.Please accept my humble obeisances and try to clarify this question to at much detail level as you can.Ram

Kuldeep Chaturvedi

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NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhak,

yes , spiritual gains are guaranteed, even if some one has polluted thoughts. How? Just surrender every thought, every action and every breath to HIM, to my Beloved Krishna.

No amount of sadhna is equal to the surrender. All your thoughts will be purified automatically and you will have no interest in "enjoying bhog" or avoiding "painful maya".

Everything will become a part of HIS Leela.

Try it out, results are guaranteed. My Girdhar has given this guarantee to everyone who can surrender to HIM.

"Sarva dharam paritjya, mamek sharanam vrij"Gitaji

With lots of Love,

A sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Much onbligingly please some one tell me that at the last breath (or at any time) whatever will take place with my mind, speech and actions (whatever it may be), what is it not going to be That ? (Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Divinity, Paramatma or whatever name we believe in) If it is not going to be That, then what is It going to be? When did It become so? Through whom did that take place? Please tell me something about this?

O' when everthing is only That, then beyond That who are we imagining and unnecessarily becoming troubled by? That whose attainment or essential need we are accepting, That was always and ever attained. In Swamiji's Book "Manav Maatre Kalyaan ke liye" pg 73 if you are able to read the last sentence then do so, and let me know how can Paramatma be unattained? So be it,

Vineet Sarottam

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!What matters the most in spiritual seeking is that what you understand deeply based on your own inner experience of what is heard and/or read from Gita or Swamiji or any saints and sages or any Scriptures! As much as we need to trust words of Gita or any scriptures, we also need to put them to test by going deep within and not just leave them as information such as I am SELF or Atman without finding the experiential meaning of SELF.For example, when we hear the story of King Bharat as mentioned, it is not to be taken literally. What is important is the emphasis it places on detachment, importance of remembering God as much as possible while still engaging in assigned duty. It also speaks of how much sadhana it takes to Realize one's True nature being SELF, and the meaning of SELF being that of Conscious Existence that knows no separation! So, instead of asking for guarantee of spiritual progress in the next birth, I would be happy to remember and Realize in this birth and do whatever is necessary earnestly and leave everything to God! God takes into account, so to speak, sincere effort to know Him now. Realization is not in one's control, only sincere seeking is! He showers blessing to seekers though!Krishna's message to me, is that one needs to discover that to remember God during the last minutes can never happen unless one remembers Him whenever one can and as often as one can. It also tells us that everything you do to know God is a step in the right direction. That's all you can do. One does what needs to be done relentlessly pursuing SELF knowledge and gets absorbed so much that one doesn't have time to ask about any guarantee for the next minute let alone next birth!Bhagwaan reminds us "Karmanyevadhikaraste, Ma faleshu kadachan"......Your only right is to act, the result, thereof, is not in your control! Such a karma is means and end in itself, from the seeker's point of view!Questions like these seem to come from our(me) feeling insecure, impatient and desirous of results only!Instead, I would just see Gita's message as the greatness of Lord to assure us and to encourage us to get busy to know HIM Now!Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

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a very interesting Q indeed. i give a very short answer:NO SPIRITUAL EFFORT IS EVER WASTED (GITA 6.40-45)

bharat ji had a very little residual baggage (in the great causal body that carries our subtle vaasanaas) left that he had to exhaust. all it means that one has to be very very vigilant with asakti (attachment) of any kind.hariom ROY

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One derives psychological comfort from differentiation between bhoga and yoga.When one understands, the difference between bhoga and yoga is not there.Y V Chawla

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two thoughts arise in narinder's mind

the first ................ each thought expressed by every sadhaka is true ...........

shall lead you to the state of mind desired by you ..........

when the last breath is exhaled , may Krishna smile on you ...........

work on it , .........................the work must bgin This Moment Now ...............

for the Last Breath too is ever exhaled This Moment Now ....................

the second ..........

alas ! nought can be done by you ..........

yes, nothing can ever be done by you ......................what can you do ?

this is the actual meaning of ' surrender' ................ Do nothing and wait .......... Stop !!!

Krishna will do all for you ........................................................................

Both will work ................................

now do what you choose ...............................

Krishna is smiling on you .....................................

AUM

narinder bhandari

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There seems to be some sort of stop and go motion in which people are hesitant, and yet anxious at the same time. Fortunately, you should find that your own emotions are grounded and levelheaded, making it much easier for you to deal with the confusion that is likely to surround you.

Barin Chatterjee

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PRIOR POSTING

Friends

The last part of Verse 6th of 8th Chpater is "sada tad bhaw Bhawitah"

One of the interpretation of the above is that man will think only about what he has done or thought throughout his life.It is not possible to alter thought to God/surrender etc if he is away from such thoughts through out his life.

Thoughts move through association and attracts similar thoughts.If one is in Bhog and Yog both ,chances are thoughts about bhog will become stronger and overpower thoughts about Yog,Mind is strong,stubborn and is very difficult to control but is controlled by practice and detachment(verse 34 of 6th chapter).

But we have a choice.We have to make that choice now about our end time and whatever choice we make we have to pay attention to that with strong commitment.Dristdyumna (Dridh Man) or strong mind is the leader of all good traits of man.So,ultimately it is our decision to have strong mind or weak mind.

Kaliyug or Satyug is the state of mind (Chitta) of a person and not the classification of period or ages.Persons aspiring for Sat(permanent,indestructible) are living today in Satyug and People aspiring for Kali(Dark/Black/Tamas) are living today in Kaliyug.We have a choice to live today or tomorrow of this lifetime in kaliyug or satyug.

How to start living in Satyug from tomorrow:-

1)Start reading Gita from tomorrow.Three readings in quick succession is required in shortest possible time.If can be done in 3 months ,well and good.This will provide grounding or anchoring of your soul.

2)Mental Jap of OM all the time.

3)Change company of people from Bhog interested to yog interested.

Lastly,God says 'Tathatsu' (So Be It) to our every thought.

regards & best wishes

Ashok Jain

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

If your question is truely sincere... then adopt these four points by Swamiji... Since you asked, it is now your duty to firmly accept these four points once and for all... and guarantee of spiritual gains it shall be at the end !!!

1) I am nothing,

2) I desire nothing,

3) I have no relation with anyone, and

4) Only God is my very own.

Thereafter a man's salvation is certain.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Hare Krishna,

We are "Mukt", born free, but we tie ourselves as we grow-up. We want to tie others, but in the process we too get tied. For example, as a father we want to control our son (he may be mature enough to take his own decisions), same with other family members like wife etc. We want them to work (not only work but think too) according to our wishes. We are slave of our wishes. So first and foremost step in the path of salvation is to rule our wishes. Wishes should not be suppressed, but we should understand that are we getting something by fulfilling that wish. Even if we fulfil a wish, next moment we will find another wish is knocking our door. Then only we can proceed on the path of salvation.

Ram Ram

Ashok Goenka

There seems to be some sort of stop and go motion in which people are hesitant after reading or listening to the too many spiritual guidances. At the end, one should find that one's own emotions are grounded and levelheaded, making it much easier to deal with. Confusion that is invariably surrounding us, has to be avoided as far as practicable, getting rid of the "Maya" and turn towards "Him" with love in the truest sense. Not to commit any sin, nor taking resort to speaking lies.

I know one great sage who had written on a white piece of paper "I am going,you stay" and sat in a meditating position before leaving the body, not before long, but only in January,5-6,2003 in His ashram at Halisahar, not very far from Kolkata.

What I mean is that it is possible even now in the so called "Kali-yuga",the moment we are made to feel that urgency.

Regards to everybody,

Barin Chatterjee

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No one can guarantee salvation. Even if one is not successful in realizing God, the progress one makes towards that goal makes the person achieve a different life. He/ She may be satisfied with this life-time achievement or he/ she may not.

If he/she is satisfied, it does not matter where he/she is born in the next birth. Because the next birth is a different try/ attempt one has to make to realize God. It is said that the Purva Samskriti (the inheritance of the Stavuic gunas that one developed in the previous birth) could help him / her to continue the progress to the realization of God. Of course much will determine what he actually happens to do in the next birth. Whether this is true or not does not matter. If in this birth, a person has been able to attain a fair degree of equanimity, he/ she would not be at all upset by the possibility of his/ her next birth being as deer or pig or mosquito or tiger or poor beggar in a poor country: for he/she would have realized that every being in this Creation is the same and one should be indifferent to the type of next birth.

If one is not satisfied with his/ her progress towards the path of realization of the Self/ God, he could be still be happy with the progress that he/she has made in this life and would look forward to the next birth to continue to the progress towards the ultimate goal.

Those who are interested in Bhog and wants just to keep themselves fit through practicing Yogic methods of sadhana can at best achieve that goal. The goal of self-realization cannot be achieved through partial devotion to that goal while pursuing

other material goals in life. There could be such Sadhaks who want to develop some mystical / magical powers through Sadhana. They may achieve only that.

The possibility of any thought other than God arising in the mind of a Sadhak arises only if one is still not focused on the single goal of realization of the Self and God. Even when pepole get into accidents, they pray to God before they die. The sadhakas are likely to think of God all the time even while they are eating, discussing, bathing, reading newspaper: so they are unlikely to get into trouble of unwanted rebirth because at the time of death they were sleeping or discussing politics or property. Because at the back of their mind, the thought of God is expected to remain.For example if at the time of death, a person was reading about a criminal's life or the the beauty of a deer, the sadhak is only thinking of these as the Creation of God. If he/she is thinking about investment in property, he is thinking that God has guiding him/ her to take a decision. If he is thinking of eating fish, he is thinking of God instructing him to eat fish.Thus, he has lost his ego to God. The thought of God remains all through. Why should he be worried about what his/ her next life could be.

If a Sadhak is serious in continuing along the path to Salvation, he shall at least be prepared to continue his/ her efforts in the next birth. That resolve is always in the back of his/ her mind. He/ she does not have to worry about what his next birth would be if he happens to think of a jackel or a thief or a murder / rape incident. Even if he/ she happens to be angry at the moment of death, a Sadhak is aware that this is God's play. He/ she has submitted to God.

Basudeb Sen

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Shree Hari

|| Ram Ram || Dear Kuldipji, thanks for the detailed question.

To the earlier part of the question, many excellent responses have already been posted. For the comparison of Bhoga and Yoga portion of the question, Mr. Naga Narayanji and Meera Dasji pointed out very clearly that the path of Yoga is 180 degrees opposite of the path of Bhoga.

Here are few more points - one can select only one of the two paths, all are free to make that choice. But if one tries to go on both the paths, Bhoga and Yoga simultaneously, the result will be Roga (Disease).

When we are in the path of Bhoga, by mistake we think that we are enjoying but King Bharathari had a different view: " BOGA NA BHUKTA VAYAMEVA BHUKTA", meaning that instead we enjoying the pleasures but the pleasures are enjoying us. Generally, when we enjoy and consume something it should get smaller but our experience says that the Bhogas do not get smaller in fact they get bigger but our ability or power to enjoy the Bhogas diminishes. So it turns out that it is just the reverse of what we assume to be true. It is like when we are in dream state, everything appears to be real as long as the dream lasts. It is only when we wake up, we realize that all of this was not true. In the same way, as long as we are in Bhoga, we believe that Bhoga to be real.

Here is an illustration: Once there was a king, he announced that he will give half of his kingdom if someone can feed a goat to its satisfaction, the king will test to see whether goat is completely fed or not. Many people thought that it is relatively easy thing to do, so they took the goat to the best of the pastures and fed the goat the all day, at the end of the day, the king offered green grass, the goat was started to eat. The all failed, a sage appeared on the scene, he took the goat to the pasture and took a stick with him, as the goat would start to eat, he will hit him with the stick, Throughout the day, he hit the goat many times, at the end of the day, king offered the fresh grass, this time the goat would not even turn to look at the grass. It is simply saying the only way to satisfy desire is to curb it. Then only it can be satisfied, just like the sacrificial fire, as long we keep offering materials and clarified butter, the flames go higher and higher but once we stop the oblations to the fire, fire starts to die down.

In Gitaji: Arjuna asked the question in Verse (3-36), "By what a man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya", Lord Krishna answers in Verse (3-37) - "Desire born of Rajas and anger, the result of thwarted desire, incite an individual to commit sin. Desire is insatiable and it is one great source of sin. Know it to be the arch enemy of man." Chapter 16 of Gitaji describes divine qualities (Verses 1-3) which are deemed for liberation and the demoniac traits (Verses 7-23) are for bondage. Here one point needs attention that in this chapter from verses (7 through 23), the term 'Kama' (desire) has been used nine times in the context of the demoniac nature (16/8, 16/10 -12, 16, 18, 21, 23). therefore one should abandon them. It means that desire is at the root of the demoniac nature. To top things off, the verse 21 says -"The triple gates of hell are desire, anger and greed leading to the ruin of the self; therefore one should abandon them.

Swamiji Maharaj emphasized this point in many of his discourses that the main road blocks in the spiritual path are Bhoga and Sangrah (Hoarding), (Gitaji: Verses 2/ 41-44). The reason is that those who are attached to pleasure and power, their discrimination is stolen away, they cannot attain determined intellect for one pointedness in God.

|| Ram Ram || Humble regards,

Madan Kaura

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Brother, means and the end are not two separate. As soon as the spiritual discipline begins, the end (Paramatma) remains in the forefront at every moment. Oh! You can not know Ishwar (God) (Manav Maatre Kalyan pg 218), you can only accept/belief Him. Swamiji has said "Everything is only God, this one has to only accept, we cannot know it; because this is not within the realm of ones capacity to understand, rather the understanding (intellect) is within it's realm. (Manav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye pg 219) . Therefore at the final moment, you may think whatever, reflect or meditate on, is there any sadhak that can say that whatever is thought, reflected or meditated on is not Bhagwaan (God)? That everything is only Bhagwaan (God), and besides God there cannot be anything else. If it is not Bhagwaan (God), then what is it? Please explain to me. I will be grateful. So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

------- NEW POSTING

Priy Kuldeepji

You have asked for as much details as one can.

But my dear why go for detail when god has simplified the solution.

PURN SARANAGATI GITAJI18/66. PLEASE READ SWAMIJIS EXPLANATION IN SADHAK SANJIVANI.

I hope u get a definite answer in that.

Thanx

raja gurdasani

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How Can We Guarantee Spiritual Gains, Inspite of Polluted Thoughts at the End?

Doubt: "So for people like us in Kaliyug (if not others, but definitely myself), who are more interested in Bhog than Yog and are simultaneously practising sadhna to get rid of this painful Maya, how can we guarantee that even though our thought might be polluted at the end, it is still going to beneficial for us."

I see an unwilling mind behind this doubt. Obviously, confusion is looming within the doubt as if "interest in Bhog" and "getting rid of painful Maya" can co-exist. One should decide for once whether the former is important or the later. The later is an impossibility while the former is nurtured. Former remains the ONLY HURDLE against acheiving the later! Therefore, my dear friend, please decide what you REALLY want. Please do not confuse yourself with impossible combinations of wishes!! Bhagavaan Vyaasa says,

Na buddhibhedam janayet agnyaanaam karmasanginaam |

If your interest is established in Bhog, be so and forget Spirituality or the related scriptures. That is not for you. But … remember never to aspire for getting rid of the "painful Maya" ever as you do not have a right to aspire so anymore! Maya and Bhog are synonymous my dear friend. If you really want to get rid of the painful Maya, get out of your illusion of attaining painless state within the Bhog first.

Also, attaining peace at death is a hallucination if you do not know how to be at peace while alive. Please do not delude yourself that the spiritual scriptures are trying to relieve you of your pain at your death. They are all unanymous in helping you attain peace while being alive. If you do not know what Peace means while alive, how are ever going to attain the same by "remembering it" while dieing? How could you "remember" something you do not even know?? How can you attain something by remembering even while living as the very notion of remembering proves that you have no idea of what "the remembered" really means to you?!

Therefore, learn not to be a deer while alive. That is what I see in all our scriptures. Being a deer (an animal born to be hunted down) is the living that you are suggesting (to be hunt down by the crave for Bhog). One will verily remain a deer till one chases the craves as the very craves keep hunting down the craver into the pit of miseries perpetually. Therefore, my suggestion is to question the "guarantee" in your appreciation of Bhog and Maya, pains and peace, life and death, etc. in the right perspective before entertaining the doubts raised by an unwilling mind regarding the "guarantee" of attaining peace from the holy scriptures.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Spiritual saadhana nullified by bad thoughts around the time of one's death

Dear Shri Kuldeep Chaturvedi,

This is an excellent question which haunts the mind of any serious Sadhak at one time or the other.

In answering this question with my limited knowledge, I would go to the reverse of this question first: what about a person who spends his life in various kinds of sinful activities but out of fear for death thinks only of God when he breathes his last?

Definitely, in this case he will not be born again as a deer or a pig or a donkey. This is not to say that he can escape unhurt at the altar of God for his sinful activities. He will have to face the consequences in his next life but because he was good enough to think of God at the time of death in his previous life, he will definitely be blessed with a cloak of protection throughout his next life which will make him repent at least philosophically the sins of his past lives and involve himself more and more in spirituality for graduating to still higher levels in his future births.

Even as regards the person who engages himself in Sadhana through a major part of his life but fails at the last moment, the Sadhana done will not go a waste at all. Just the person who engages himself in sinful activities will have to pay for them in his next life, the person who has done Sadhana too will have to enjoy the merits of it in his next life. The only difference would be, because of the ill-effects of his bad thoughts at the end of his previous life, he will have to make a menial beginning in his next life and restart his leftover Sadhana of his previous life with least effort as his soul would be already familiar with the Sadhana. This may not be the case with the other person as he will have to start his Sadhana (for which he would be surely blessed after he expiates all his sins of previous birth, because of his Godly thoughts at the time of his death in his previous life) with all the difficulties which a new Sadhak would face.

Though the ways of GODS are inscrutable, the law never defies logic – those whose actions defy logic are only the humans!

I would be glad if this approach has been convincing enough.

Kind regards,

V K Naageswaran

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,I will quote the Dhammapada from Buddha.Our life is shaped by our mind, what we think is what we become. Sufferingfollows an evil thought as the wheels of an oxen follow the cart that draws it.Joy follows a pure thought as a shadow that never leaves it. So we need toawaken and discover our pure real consciousness and awkanen eternal bliss whichis our true "sat" consciousness "chitta" and which is always in bliss "ananda".

Accept whole heartedly this reality from within asMeera did. "mere to giridhar gopala doosra na koi."Dr Vispi Jokhi

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

Where there is BHOG there is no YOG. The choice is ours, as in human birth we have the independence to choose (freedom of choice).

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Namaste

This question and those related to it are commonly asked by sadhaks who are in doubt and troubled about failure to 'gain perfection.' You should not be; don't be discouraged; persevere amidst imperfections and drawbacks.

..Bhagavan addressed these issues in Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 6.

Arjuna asked 'does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support?'

Bhagavan reassured Arjuna, and all of us: The 'doer of good never comes to grief ... one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.'

Arjuna said:

37. Though possessed of Shraddhaa but unable to control himself, with the mind wandering away from Yoga, what end does one, failing to gain perfection in Yoga, meet, O Krishna?

38. Does he not, fallen from both, perish, without support, like a rent cloud, O mighty-armed, deluded in the path of Brahman?

39. This doubt of mine, O Krishna, Thou shouldst completely dispel; for it is not possible for any but Thee to dispel this doubt.

The Blessed Lord said:

40. Verily, O son of Prithaa, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

41. Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

42. Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

43. There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus.

And, in Chapter 4:

36. Even if thou be the most sinful among all the sinful, yet by the raft of knowledge alone thou shalt go across all sin.

37. As blazing fire reduces wood into ashes, so, O Arjuna, does the fire of knowledge reduce all Karma to ashes.

Finally, in Chapter 9:

30. If even a very wicked person worships Me, with devotion to none else, he should be regarded as good, for he has rightly resolved.

31. Soon does he become righteous, and attain eternal Peace, O son of Kunti boldly canst thou proclaim, that My devotee is never destroyed.

The above does not imply you can do evil and escape the consequences, or that you can do bad things and then suddenly, in your deathbed, shout the name of Bhagavan, and presto! all is well and your slate is wiped clean. Banish such thoughts. The Eternal Law of Karma applies to all.

But Bhagavan is not there looking over our shoulders, 24/7, angry and vindicative, ready to hurl us into hell and brimstone for our failures and imperfections. Swami Chinmayananda ji addresses this issue in his GITA commentary: " Vedanta is not a philosophy that heartlessly keeps the sinners out of it halls of wisdom. It does not believe there is any lost soul who will ever wander among the heathens, and who can only be redeemed if he enters the portals of the Church of Vedanta.

The all-pervading Divine manifests everywhere and therefore, there is no sinner who cannot, through his endeavour, come to claim his own heritage of Absolute Perfection. The Gita is a scripture of life written for man and it assures man that "even if he be the mot sinful among the sinful," he too can cross over his painful destinies of the present and reach the shores that lie beyond finitude and imperfections.'

To summarize, the GITA tells us: Do not be troubled by setbacks and imperfections; strive for perfection and you shall succeed.

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

This example of Rishi Bharat can b e applied to us.Inspite of our Sadhana if we aspire for the things we love we can get it in the next birth. As Bharat Rishi was remembering a deer then he became a deer in his next birth Read the full story in scripture

This is what I think

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

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Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Friends, If you can believe that Shraddhey Shree Swami Ramsukhdasji has comprehended the Gita more so than any of us, then please through him are drawn out 100% fail-proof solutions, so please take advantage and benefit from these. To understand those solutions first you will have to have faith in the words of God (Bhagwaan). Bhagwaan has said, besides me (for this world) there is no other cause (motive) or action (duty, occupation), not in the least bit - (Gita 7/7). In other words - Everything is only Paramatma (God). (Gita 7/19)

NOw do what Swamiji says. But before you do these, first accept the following sayings of Swamiji -

"When we consider ourselves to be the body, then Bhagwaan (God) becomes the world for us, in other words, he appears in the form of the World (pg 205). Everything is only God this is the highest of principle of the Gita (pg 207) . This is not something to be only contemplated upon, rather it has to be accepted within (by the Self) (pg 214) . One cannot benefit simply by learning this knowledge with mind-intellect, it is only when one accepts this by the self that one is benefited (pg 215), For accepting this real essence, one needs no holy books, no meditation, no comtemplation, no hearing (Shravan), Reflecting (Manan), Uninterrupted Contemplation (Nidhidhyasan), no closing eyes, no closing ears, no need to press the nostrils shut, no need to go to the forest, no need to go into the cave, no need to go to Himalayas (pg 216). That which is ever present, all pervasive, to attain that there is no marked path. All that is needed is intense longing (pg 217). All these points are addressed in Swamiji's book - "Maanav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. " Now you do what Swamiji has said - "Simply once with a true, simple and straight-forward heart, with a firm conviction accept that I am God's (Bhagwaan's), and no one elses. Only God is mine, no one else is mine." Swamiji has said that if Bhagwaan is not seen, then so be it, but He is ours, and we are His - this is the Truth (Book Bhagwaan se Apnaapan - pg 80)

Simply try it and see for yourself. Liberation-Emancipation / Deliverence from this World, you will forget everything, because no one can be greater than Bhagwaan (God). Even Arjuna had thought so in Gita 11/43, So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,"Man mana bhava mad bhakto,Mad yaji mam namaskuru,Mam evaisyati satyam te,Pratijane priyo si me. "( Gitaji, 18,65)Which means,'Always think of Me, become my devotee, worship Me and offer your homage to Me. Then you will come to me without fail. I promise you this because you are my dear friend. 'This is what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in Gitaji. The most confidential knowledge from Gitaji is that we should become pure devotees of Lord Krisna, concentrate our minds on Him, think of Him and act for Him, constantly. We are all creatures of habit. Once we are into devotional service constantly, naturally that comes to our mind in the end. Since we do not know when the end comes, we should get into devotional service early on in our lives.since childhood onwards. Constant devotional service also clears our minds of any negative thoughts. Let us chant the Holy Names constantly and attain Him in the end. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu,M.D

Hari Bol, Hare Krishna PrabhujiIf we follow what Shri Krishnaji has said in His own words (aka Bhagavad Gita),we ONLY have the right to act. Its even wrong to ask for any guarantee! The endresult really is in the hands of the supreme judge - Parmaatma!Now, the fact that WE ALL are involved in a LOT of Bhog and a little bit ofSaadhana...and then we again start demanding! I am sure, if we cannot see that,Sri Hari definitely sees it.This state is like riding in 2 boats at the same time. Or rather, this is like(as stated in a Bhagavat Katha by Sri Ramesh Bhai Ojha) that a drunk man startedrowing a boat and kept on rowing for the entire night, still did not reach hisgoal. Why? Because he did not let loose of the rope tied at the river bank.So, while we started doing saadhana, we are still mostly attached to the Maaya,Bhog, attractions of this world.Now, indeed, as Sri Hari has said in Gita, this little little Sadhana will atsome point give us enough courage that we will start breaking these bonds. Untilthen, we dont have any choice but to just keep thinking about Sri Hari and Hismercy!And, wont you agree, at the time of our death, it will be things that had moreimportance in our lives (Or rather, to which we gave more importance) will havemore impact in our minds.Simply put, if goes to the airpot to board a plane from Mumbai 'with the inneraim' of going to US...but only pays enough to go to Delhi, how can that personexpect to go all the way to US! Eventually, we will get only what we deserve!HARI OM .... RADHEY RADHEY!!Panky...

Shree Hari Ram Ram

It will be helpful if you can include your name in future postings. thank you! All sadhaks kindly include your name at the end of each posting.

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Hari OmKuldipji's dilemma of going this way or that way reminded me of a story, heard long back, but still very relevant, particularly reg: worldly people and their 'last thoughts' ( as against last thought of a sadhak) ... Sadhaks may put themselves for some time into hilarious free zone :-An old man, on death bed, had his all three sons in front of him, the youngest (aged 25) having reached from abroad recently after 15 years.. hearing the news of his father being on death bed. Elder 2 brothers aged 40, and 38 were living with father all along. Doctor had just left the home stating 'no hope ... at the most to survive for next half an hour ... get ready for last rites' !! Father to the eldest son: Come ! Listen to my last wish! Come !!To the surprise of the youngest son , the eldest brother did not move an inch. The youngest stared with hatred at the eldest ! What kind of son is my brother? Last wish... Not moving at all !!Father to the middle son: At least you heed to my last wish !! Please come.. I'm gonna die in next half an hour !! Please !The middle son stood like a rock, not moving.. making blood of the youngest boiling !! My dad is dying and these two sons are not even moving an inch !! Then Father told the foreign returned, the youngest : Please listen to me .. My last wish !Yes Dad ! Anything you say. Please tell ! Father said: I will die after half an hour. Don't burn me immediately. First cut my body into two pieces by a sword. Throw a piece each on the roofs of my neighbours. Call police. Till they are arrested on charge of my murder, do not remove the body. They last time defeated me. This time I want to defeat them. My soul will not rest in peace till they are behind bars ! Do not they know, who am I ? Ensure that they are put behind bars for 20 years each !!The youngest son got stunned. With the aforesaid veledictory unpolluted expression of his last wish/thought, the great worldly father left this world for his hell-ly abode leaving behind his youngest son aghast. After 12 days, the eldest brother called the youngest and slapped hard on his face and told: That day you were watching me with hatred. Why? Did not you know how was our father? We both wanted that at least while dying our father does not sin !! Kuldipji !! This is a worldly people's account ! Decide now which way you wanna go !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

Dear Ones, Namaste!Those among us who are intensely longing to know God-themselves-world, don't really care what happen to them when body-mind organism dies or what happens to their spiritual efforts! They don't even have time to think anything else!Another point is that Spiritual pursuits are in and of themselves their fruits, and not means to attain something at the end of their pursuits! Pursuits are done through "them" for the sake of Love, rather "they" are doing to gain God! For example, if one chants the names of Lord and one is happy doing it, that happiness itself is the reward. In Realization of SELF, there is no accumulation of efforts over a certain period of time! It may be realized that "Happiness" is what SELF IS. Various bodies come and go in ME, the SELF!From Gita it is important enough to Realize "I am Atman, SELF-EXISTENCE-Consciousness" and "this world(including this body)" is appearance within IT. To emphasize this Lord may have said to remember the name of God even when body is dying, and for that to happen one needs to constantly remember God throughout life. We all know that by remembering chores at night before going to sleep, "these chores" will remind us to be taken care. King Bharata's story seems to be another such emphasis on importance of taking eyes off the worldly affairs such as attachment to wounded deer! Compassion for the deer is natural and so was shown!However, King Bharata already knew he wasn't the body, but a body within SELF, his true identity, and as such it doesn't mater what body comes in!Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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You need to watch your thoughts....these are taking you to nowhere....

With all these thoughts, you can not achieve much....

Leave all questions, have faith in the process of sadhna, be with people who can guide you.... It is very very simple....but first all these questions have to be parked somewhere....for good..... Just follow the process...sincerely....

best wishes

Sushil Jain

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We should not take meanings of Geeta too literally. By thinking of something before death one does not become that thing in next birth. Per my understanding, what is meant is that unless we leave our desire for material objects behind we are doomed to take birth again and again.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Jai Sri Ram,

A very valid point by Kuldeep. Hope someone could enlightened me too.

Jai Sri Ram.

Saravanan------

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Ananya chintana is the only way out .Our thoughts and actions should be on paramatma only.While talking eating drinking etc. our thought should be only on paramatma.This will only make us courageous to cross this bhava sagara

Badri Narayana Miriyala

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Hari OmKuldipji has indeed been honest and genuine in apprehensions. Welcome !!But I must say his fears are not supported by truth. King Bharata even when he was in the form of a deer remembered his human life and would eat only dry grass (observe discipline in sense enjoyment) ; became human again and emancipated himself. When did he fall from higher? This great country even today is named after him. He is figuring in Divine Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma for ever !!! If you fix the object firmly of turning towards God , all good people, Saints and Sages, Divine Laws , Scriptures, Satsanga, Gurus, Mr Conscience (Viveka- sitting right inside you) etc keep coming to you and helping you on the way and thus after you have firmly fixed your object it is primarily responsibility of them to guide you. Gita encompasses many verses setting the laws and rules in this regard- say 9:22, 7:21 etc. In all 'karan nirapeksha' sadhans of God Realisation (Equanimity, Surrender, Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga etc) there is no possibility of your getting 'yoga bhrashta' (Refer 6:37). You get 'yoga bhrashta' only in 'Dhyaan Yoga' (because there you take shelter of mind/inert). Even that 'yoga bhrashta' is not consigned to lower spheres. He too starts again from where he left (Refer BG 6: 42/44) ... What to talk of 'karan nirapeksha sadhans' !! There is no possibility of your sadhana not getting successful once you have firmly set your objective. ( Kuldipji ..Think on this... How to firmly set the objective) !!You have given so much thought to the subject before making up your mind to turn towards Him or not. I have no doubt that there is 'subhecchha'(auspicious desire) in you. Hence better place faith in BG 6:40 (latter half) WHICH IS A LAW for entire humanity : Na hi kalyaankrit kaschit durgatim Taat gachhati !O Dear. One who does karmas (striving/sadhana) for (Self/God) Realisation (Kalyaan/emancipation) ; that human never falls from higher state to lower. Now it is a law. It is responsibilty of God to ensure that His devotees never fall (9:31) ! Similarly Gita and Scriptures are full of such laws. Regarding 'last thought' also there are ample methodologies, rules and principles !! (Refer BG 7:30 for instance; or BG 13:23) !!! Just jump, and then see the results yourself. (I don't deny you to think. Do it anyway... But be focussed now... Think now to reach at conclusion) Above all, what are you comparing God Realisation saadhana with? With this world ?? With Temporary/momentary worldly pleasures !!! Oh No ! Where is the comparison between Akhand/Anant Ananda and momentary pleasures which start and end with sorrows ? There is a lot to state on the subject. Keep deliberating. Do not hesitate in pouring your heart out. Sadhaks here in this Divine Forum have surely gone through in the past, what you are going through today.

Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-

My friend Kula Deepa,

What you said is correct. Whateve rone is attached to in the moments of leaving the body he will reach (Yaanti) that object. But pray, tell me why does the attention wave ras the Prayaana Kaala approaches. It is the attachment. Bharata watched a prakritic phenomenon of a deer in labour (delivering a baby). Instead of dismissing it as a mere incident of Prakriti and a result prakritic idulgence, he took it to his Mana, Buddhi and even to the Atma. A subtle impression (Vaasana) was formed on the Atma. Vaasana is like a stain. The stain has to be washed off before Atma is allowed to enter the premisis of Parama Atma. No Nirma washing powder can do it. However "NIRMAANA MOHA JITA SANGA DOSHA ADHYAATMA CITTA VINIVRITTA KAAMA" IS THE WASHING POWDER NEEDED. The Atma has to get into a bucket of water, use the Adhyaatma citta, with gotten rid of attachments. The washing process may have to be repeated several times (iteratively). Bharatha after the deer birht had to be born as Jada Bharatha brfore he was admitted into the Kingdom.

It is not correct to say that the wavering started at the end time. End time dicersion of sttention was the effect of earlier departure from the concentration (Yoga Bhrashta). Kula Sekhara (His name is similar to yours) a Bhakta-poet of Jesus' time says

KRISHNA! TVADEEYA PADA PANKAJA PANJA ANTAREIVA ME VISATU NO MAANASA RAJAHAMSA;

PRAANA PRAYAANA SAMAYE KAPHA VAATA PITTAIH KANTHA AVARODHANA VIDHOUH SMARANAM KUTHASTE?

KRISHNA, i AM NOT SURE MY mANA WOULD BE WITH YOU AT THE END TIME, IT MAY DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERAL ATTACHMENT AND BODY ILLNESS LIKE KAPHA, VAATA AND PITTA; SO I RATHER KEEP MY MIND WHICH IS LIKE RAJA HAMSA, IN THE CAGE OF YOUR GLORIOUS FEET SO THAT IT CAN NOT WAVER AND FLY AWAY AT THE END TIME.

Hwever the concentration diverts due to several factors many of them not intentional. What happens to them. Arjuna asks this very question to Krishna and Krishna's reply is aphoristic.

paartha na eva iha na amutra vinaasah tasya vidyate

na hi kalyaana krit kascit durgatim taata gacchati 6.40.

In the next few Slokas the Lord describes what will befall such Atmas which have become Yoga Bhrashta. As Krishna said in 2.40 of BG, Pratyavaayo na vidyate, svalpam api asya dharmasya, traayato mahato Bhayaat.

NO fear of bad befalling on yoga bhrashta. ONE HAS TO START AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE LORD. Deivam ca atra eva pancamam.

God bless You

Samudrala Krishna

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If one is on the path of Sadhana, it is immaterial to him as to what form hetakes rebirth. If you believe in rebirth in the usual sense (though I think thisquoted verse from Gita does not talk about rebirth of the particular, identifiedAtman that is unaffected by deeds), you should be aware that you carry y theeffects of your deeds in the next birth. So whatever progress you made thisbirth, you start from that in the next birth.When you know that God exists in everything and all things reside in God, oneneed not be worried about in which womb someone gets rebirth. Deer is as mucha form of God as a human being.Moreover, is someone is bitten by a mosquito just before death and he thinks ofa mosquito, the person as per the quoted verse would be born as mosquito in thenext birth and mosquito possibily cannot think, then the mosqito in the nextbirth would not be born in any form. So, you may please wonder for a whilewhether your interpretation of the verse is consistent with the concept of Atmanas expounded in Gita, Wonder what Lord Krishna would have been in his birth justpreceeding his birth as a human being in the prison of Kangsa. Did he in that preceeding birth think of a human being form at the time ofdeath.? Think about such inconsistencies and clarify in your mind as to what the realmessage of Gita is: nothing that you do gets lost: you mat progress along thepath of your Sadhana but you may suddenly move a few steps backgward because ofthe tremendous force of lust or desire latent in you. This is a priocess thatgoes on and on. Thde thought that you may not progress steadily along the pathof Sadhana and suddenly think of an animal at the time of death and spoil yourprogress is a fear arising from a desire to attain salvation. But the path ofSadhana is to remove all desires and ego through desireless and egoless sadhasnaor yoga. All the best. Basudeb Sen

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Seeing any fact or challenge without the screen of idea (that is, it is good or bad) is the first and last step towards realisation. Mind is always acting to find a state, which is psychologically comfortable.Realisation is not a psychologically comfortable state.Mind is not able to take the jerk of the fact that one will NEVER KNOW the mystery of existence as a comfortable idea or end.There is nothing to hold or get rid off.Just see the whole point and you are there!Y V Chawla

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Jai HanumanKuldipji ! Sadhan (yoga) and non-sadhan (bhoga) , if they go together ..then predominance will be only of non-sadhan (asadhan/bhoga) as a law. Here whatever you are doing as sadhan will not go waste but definitely a lot of time will be required. "Yoga Bhrashta" state takes place when 'asadhan' and 'sadhan' go together. But there is too there is no loss to you for the sadhan you have made- only results get delayed, as happened with King Bharat. If you are not firm in your object- then :Duvidhaa main dono gaye, Maya mili na Raam !!In dilemma one (Jeeva) loses both maya (Jagat/world) and Raam (Jagdish). You have to fix the goal. You have to 'become' of God. Once you 'become' of God, your body which is an 'automatic computer' governed by 'command' of 'ego' takes over. Your job , thus, is of merely 'resolving' (9:30/31) !! When we talk of 'becoming' of God- we mean change of ego from "I am of World, world is mine" to "I am of God, only God is mine" ! It is a law that as is Karta (doer) so are Karmas (deeds) !Hence start with "firm resolution" ( samyag vyavasthito hi sah - 9:30) ! In that process of "firm resolution" - ask Questions/ ponder/ think .. Do whatever you feel right. Example given by you is of a "yoga bhrashta" ! There are ways in which such possibility is ruled out- change of ego is one of them. REMEMBER: This precious life has been given to you by God only for Realisation. Hence there is no need for getting pessimist ! THINK : What can you lose by turning towards God ?? What have you gained so far by remaining engrossed in the world? Why there is desire in you of turning towards Him? Why are you ? Who are you? And COME BACK with difficulties, fears which you feel can come on your way when you decide to 'become' of God ! FORGET forever that any person who turns towards Him can ever fall . In case of King Bharat there was a delay but not a fall ! There is no way of your falling. ONLY GAINS can happen - NO LOSSES either from worldly point of view or from spiritual point of view can ever then occur in your pursuits. DOUBT THIS statement should you want ; think; and come back to us if any doubts. Namaste Jee Jee JeeShashikala

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|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram5th December, 2009, Saturday, Paush Krishna Tritiya

Lord is Both Just and Merciful (Dec 5, 2009)

yum yum vaapi smaranbhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram

tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavbhaavitah (Gita 8/6)

O Kaunteya (Arjuna), whatever object or being a man thinks of at the time of his death or departure from the body, that alone does he attain, being ever absorbed in its thought. (in other words he takes birth in those wombs) (Gita 8/6)

A being is reborn in the body he thinks of at the time of death. As is his nature, he thinks accordingly at the time of death. As a man tending to a pet dog thinks of it at the time of death, he is born as a dog. As the programme broadcast from a particular radio station is received at a particular wave-length and then spreads in the form of sound, the thought of a dog with which he has been connected is caught by him somehow. The soul with subtle and causal bodies enters the body of the dog via water, air (breath) or food etc. Thereafter, it enters the body of a female dog and takes birth as a puppy at the appropriate time.

This can be explained with the help of an illustration. A person goes to a photographer and requests him to take his photograph. The photographer advises him to keep a smiling face without any movement. But when the photographer asks him to be ready, a fly sits on his nose and so he moves his facial muscles to get rid of that fly. The result is that in the photograph he appears with a distorted face. In the same way, a man is reborn according to his thoughts at the time of death.

As far as the time to take a photograph is concerned, we know it before hand, but we do not know the time of death. So, by purifying our nature and thoughts, we should be ever alert and think of Him at all times (Gita 8/5, 7).

In this directive of the Lord is seen His justice, as well as mercy. Generally, justice and mercy (compassion) seem incompatible, because if there is justice, there cannot be compassion (mercy), while having mercy, justice cannot be done. The reason is that in doing proper justice there is no leeway, but in mercy, concessions are made. As such, this rule is applicable to ordinary unkind human beings, not to the Lord, as He is the most gracious One, and is a disinterested friend of all beings, (Gita 5/29). So, all His ordinances and rules are full of justice and mercy.

Whatever being a man thinks of at the time of death, he acquires the same form on rebirth. If he dies thinking of a dog, he is reborn as a dog. This is God's justice. But He has given freedom of choice to man, to think either of a dog or of a man, or of God, and this is His mercy. A man can attain God, simply by thinking of Him, as he can obtain the body of a dog, by thinking of it. If a man starts thinking of God's justice and compassion, he will be attracted towards God alone.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 8/6 by Swami Ramsukhdasji For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiram sukhdasji. org

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===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that theyfurther help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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