Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Question for you : If there is no desire for anything then there is nomotivation to do anything. People will be lazy and will not do anything. In my thought people should have desire then he will try to get what he is trying to accomplish, it does not matter what it is, may be higher position, more wealth, big house, new car etc., in terms of respect you don't desire, you earn it. please reply. Thanks Suresh Chandra------------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Thank you for the question. This question has been addressed often in Swamiji's daily messages, as well as, in Gita Talk discussions. Couple of the daily messages that pertains to your question is posted below. Please read very very carefully, and if there are any doubts, please ask again. Sadhak messages - Why are you Buying Poverty - sadhaka/message/2087 Please also read the recent Gita talk discussion on - Sustainance of Life is Independent on Effort and Possessions @ /message/3100 Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------------- Duties happen automatically and naturally on renunciation of Desires If a man has a particular desire, it is not a rule that this desire will always be satisfied. A desire may or may not be satiated. Till today all the desires of even a single individual have not been satiated, nor will they ever be satiated. If a desire is born, and if it is not fulfilled, it causes a lot of pain. But the condition of man is such that he continues to feel saddened by unfulfilled desires, simultaneously he continues to have new desires ! The outcome is that neither all his desires are fulfilled, nor does the pain andsorrow end. Therefore if a person wants to be rescued from pain, the remedy is Renunciation of Desires (Kaamanaa ka tyaag). In the scriptures it is written that in this human body, there is a predominance of action. Deep within himself, when a man, has the desire to acquire something, he is inclined to act. An action is of two kinds -"kartavya" (duty, i.e. what ought to be done) and "akartavya" (what ought not be done). Performance of action with a disinterested spirit (nishkaam bhava) i.e. FREE OF DESIRES, is "kartavya". Performance of action with interested spirit (with personal desires) is "Akartavya." - NOT DUTY. The root of Akartavya is desire for sensual pleasures that come from association. When desire for pleasure is wiped out, Akartavya does not happen. And when Akartavya does not happen, one automatically and by default observes "Kartavya", i.e DUTY is inevitably protected and fostered. Thespiritual discipline that happens naturally or automatically is real (authentic), whereas that spiritual discipline that is practiced intentionallywith effort is unreal (artificial). Ram Ram From "The Salvation of Mankind" in English by Swami Ramsukhdasji. ------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Three things are essential to get worldly things - desire, efforts and destiny. First you should have a desire to get / acquire a worldly thing, second, you should make an effort (do karma) to getthe same. And thirdly, even after making an effort and doing karma, you will get that thing, only if you are destined to get it. If you are not destined to get the thing then even after desiring and making efforts you will not get the same. Therefore many times we make an effort to gain a profit, but end up incurring losses! But God is realized merely by desiring. There is no need of any effort or destiny. In path of God realization there is never a loss, there is profit and profit only. Except God, merely by desiring we do not get any other thing. Reason is that the human body has been given to us only for God realization. God has given this human body to us, with the aim and objective of realizing Him. Secondly, God is everywhere. There is no space even the size of a needle point that is without God being there. Therefore in His realization, there is no role of effort and destiny.By doing Karma (efforts, deeds) we get only perishable things. Imperishable God cannot be realized by doing (karmas). He is realized solely by intense desire.From "Maanav Matra ke Kalyaan ke Liye" in Hindi, page 74-75 by SwamiRamsukhdasji Maharaj --------------Shree Hari ||Ram Ram 22nd December, 2009, Tuesday, Paush Shukla Shasthi Dependency is not liked by anyone. A dependent man does not gain happiness even in his sleep. "Paraadheen sapanehun sukhu naahi." (Manasa 1:102:3). Inspite of being so, then too man desires happiness from others, desires respect from others, desires praise from others, desires to gain from others - this is so very astonishing ! He who desires happiness from things, from individuals, from situations, from circumstances, from events, from various states / stages, from rest and relaxation, from gain, he has to become dependent. He cannot be saved whether he be Brahma or Indra or anyone for that matter. I say this to the extent that even Bhagwaan cannot be saved. He who desires something from anyone will definitely become dependent.He who desires Paramatma, he is not dependent; because Paramatma is not other. This Jeev (embodied soul) is very much an "ansh" (part of, ray of consciousness) of Paramatma, but on desiring anything other than Paramatma we become dependent; because besides Paramatma, nothing else is ours. It is only on having no desire for other things, that desire for Paramatma is awakened. If desire for other things does not remain, then Paramatma will be realized. When there is desire for anything, that desire validates a deficiency, a lack of something. In other words, unnecessarily at no cost, why are you buying paucity? If you desire to be happy, then do not desire happiness from anyone. Get rid of this thought completely from within - once and for all that "We will gain from another." Nothing can be done by anyone. He who desires something from another, can he be saved from dependency? Can he become independent? Therefore make this point firm - I will not desire anything from anyone! He who sees himself has reliant on that which is acuqired and later gets away(i.e. perishables), how can he be happy? The Self is not one that is created and destroyed (perishable). The Self is Imperishable. There is another very extraordinary point - He who desire something from another is non-deserving. He is not deserving at all. Just like, one who desires respect from another, he is not deserving of respect. He who is deserving of respect, does not desire respect. If you look into it, out of 18 Akshouni armies, in which all were Kshatriyas and Kshatriyas alone, and inspite of being a Kshatriya Himself, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna, became a charioteer leading Arjun's horses. Such an ordinary task he undertook, that can be mocked! Can driving the horses be valiant work? Is it the kind of work that commands any respect? But He was not ashamed of doing such work. He was deserving of respect therefore he had no desire for respect. Now how is one to know that He is deserving of respect? In the opposite army, Bhishmaji is the first one to blow the conch, and in this army, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna is the first to blow the conch. Because in the Kaurava army, the most important person was Bhishma and in the Pandava army the most important person was Shri Krishna. He who desires respect is a slave to respect and is not deserving of any respect. He who desires disciples, is a slave to disciples and is not a Guru. He who desires wealth is a slave to wealth, not a master of wealth. Therefore desires must be removed from the mind completely. From "Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu" in Hindi pg 714 by Swami RamsukhdasjiRam Ram For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org ===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only) 5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted. 7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Question for you : If there is no desire for anything then there is nomotivation to do anything. People will be lazy and will not do anything. In my thought people should have desire then he will try to get what he is trying to accomplish, it does not matter what it is, may be higher position, more wealth, big house, new car etc., in terms of respect you don't desire, you earn it. please reply. Thanks Suresh Chandra------------ NEW POSTING Hari OmThere is a difference between desire and duty. One is propellellor/cause ..another effect. Neetishji Dubey has perfectly explained the distinction between "desire" for world (kaamana) and Prem( Abhilasha) for God. Sushilji Jain has also indeed reflected the truth. Desire (Kaamana) has to be given direction and converted into Curiousity/Abhilaasha. You must rise higher. You have desires in you from day 1. You have taken birth only because of them. They are in built in you. Basically, you have only 3 desires existing in you. 1 Desire to know 2 Desire to do 3 Desire to get.Now if there is a desire , then as a Law, there must be an element existing which fulfills those desires. Else the desire would not have been there. Your desire to do extinguishes when you do for others- expectationless service to the world .. Because that is relinquishment. Akarma ...! Desire to know extinguishes when you know your 'self'. But we go reverse... We have to do for others, we try to do for self. We have to know 'self' we try to know others... And suffer, suffer and suffer !!If any desire is given by Divine Laws to you...the powers to fulfill them are also given. For the desire to do, you have right to do. For the desire to know, you have right to know. But you don't have a right 'to get' !! For desire to get..the right granted to you is "Power to believe" ! Why ? Because you have already got that element. You don't believe so and are trying to get worldly things. If you believe that you are separate from the world, complete in yourself, Son of the King of all the Kings, part of God and God only.... Nothing remains to be got ! Your connection with God is inseparable.Pranaams to all Sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina.Narottam--------------------------- Desire is not wrong but it's attachment to desire that is wrong. Otherwise Hinduism has one of it's goals as desire. Krishna never left the world, he enjoyed it, all desires if you want to call them that but he was unattached to them. It is non- attachment that matters not the desire itself. Anil Bhanot ----------------------------- Ram Ram Sadhakas, The question of eradication of desire and becoming absolutely free from all desires is certainly a very noble goal such as Absolute Ahimsa as practiced by some Jain brothers. in my juddgement any value cannot be practiced in absolute term. there are several examples in Mahabharata where Lord Krishna Himself allowed not only the breaking the values of Ahimsa and truthfulness, but also encouraged.it. but it depends on the situation. According to mother Sarda, desires for knowledge, devotion, Seva and salvation cannot be classed as desires because they are higher desires. One should first replace the lower desires with higher desires and then renounce the highest desires also and beÂcome absolutely free. It is said that the highest freedom is the freedom from becoming free. thus there are situations where having a selfless desrire (Nishkaama bhaava) is necessary to run the society. these are called "enlightened self interest". but the same rules that apply to a renunciant such as Gurudeva, cannot be applied to a Grihastha, otherwise the world will not run. i would like to see more discussions and all view points and summary on this very important subject. yours hariom roy ------------------------------- Jai HanumanOf course there is a need to understand the meanings of the terms Karma, Akarma, Vikarma as they are employed in Bhagvad Gita.Doing your duty, Selfless/Expectationless Service is "Akarma". Here you are not doing for your 'self' ! "A" before "karma" negates it to be for you ( without desire for results) ! You are doing for others. You are renouncing in fact. You are employing inert back into the inert. You are changing the direction of Karma towards the world from whom only you got the very faculty and tools for "to do". All karmas done with Equanimity are "Akarmas". "Karmas" are those actions which we do "with a worldly desire" say for results. They essentially create a bondage for you- irrespective of whether the "Karta" ( Jeeva) was sattwik, rajasic or tamasic at the time of doing the Karma. Unless a Karma is in nature of "Akarma"- it binds you - by positive (favourable), negative (adverse) and mixed results. A Sadhak strives to convert these automatically happenning Karmas into "Akarmas". He changes his 'bhavas' in order to do that. He changes/purifies his ego in order to convert "karmas" into "akarmas"- so that he gets no further bondaged and gets liberated- becomes peaceful."Vikarmas" are prohibited Karmas which a human is not supposed to do. They should not be done. They give negative results always.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala -------------------------------- Hari OmDESIRES when arising instantly create a sense of deficiency in you. Before the desire arose you were not deficient.DESIRES when continuing there is pain continuing of labour, efforts, uncertainty, running against time, competition, envy, centralisation, fear of failure, tensions, anxieties ....DESIRES when fulfilled - more desires will arise instantly Simultaneously pride, greed, dishonesty, envy, injustice and falsehood also arise, ego baloons and there arises an anxiety /worry for 'maintaining what you have got' ! On the top of it, with whatever you get "connected" with- as fulfillment of desires- starts "disconnecting" from you from the very moment of connection itself ! Come On ! Then, you get only that which MUST leave you !! You are back to square one in all cases. DESIRES when not fulfilled- pain increase geometrically- from deficiency, uncertainty, loss of energy/efforts/time to .... frustration, failure, depression, hatred, jeolosy, loss of confidence, humiliation, blaming, cursing the time/luck/others , ... And to what not ?And then also worldly things do not stay with you. If they stay, you don't stay. Disconnection with them is a MUST. You never never become owners of them. Ownership is assumed never the actual.STRANGELY, we all feel, that we get pleasure by 'fulfillment of desires" ! FACT IS that fulfillment of desires do not get you pleasure, the 'relinquishment' ( tyaag) of desires by mind gets you pleasure (peace) !!Sadhaks may note that various laws, principles relating to "desires" as stated in Gita or as so benevolently discovered and explained by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj are absolutely scientific, logical and universally applicable. Hence there is no dearth or absence of "scientific " yardsticks in His theories, laws, principles etc. They appeal to logic and soul. They are part of your daily experiences. They are tested, experienced, and proven laws/principles. They get confirmed by Shruti, Yukti and Anubhuti yardsticks also. Hence one can fearlessly strive for 'extinguishment of desires'. In the end one has to 'extinguish' them only.... no body has ever been able to 'fulfill' them. No body...In the words of Swamiji .. Desire of even the 'baap' (father) of Lord Rama was not fulfilled !! There is no provision made for it ... ! Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina.Narottam------------------- Understanding of principles of life is the key... It is all a grand play......to be understood and played accordingly...The whole creation exists because of the desires..... Having desires is alright....... Getting disturbed if desires are not fulfilled is not.... Quality of desires is also important..... higher the desire...where there is good for all is better and more fulfilling... In spirituality, with the understanding of life, when the conciousness level rises, the desire is to be with him - to be - the all powerful.......to be with nothing which has everything....to be in joy and happiness all the time....blissful......this is what everyone looks for from each and every low level desire..... You have a choice to choose low level desires or the highest level desire....to merge with the creator...the results come accordingly..... It is all your order. Nature starts working the movement you have desires at the thought level.....all you need is to have patience and faith......for nature to work on and bring you what you ordered.......try it.....look back in life and reflect on how things happened in your life......What desires you had at various times of your life....how these got fulfilled or why these did not... Best wishes to everyone for the blissful new years to come....... Sushil Jain ------------------------ My fellow learners, "HAVING NO DESIRES IS THE SUREST WAY TO RELEASE", KILL ALL YOUR DESIRES" and such noble sounding slogans are just for public consumption. They are not practical nor necessary to release or MOksha. Suppose one kills all desires; why did he do so? The answer is "TO GET MOKSHA". iS THIS NOT A DSIRE? Thus wishing . to kill all desires is again a desire and in fact, the biggest of all desires. Thus, having no desires or killing all desires is an impossibility and one who says that it is the only way to Moksha is talking thru his hat. Desires or Kama are divided into two categories - Aharma Aviruddha and Dharma viruddha kama. To breath is a desire, to fill the stomach to survive is a desire. To put your children in the right path is both a desire and responsibility (kartavya). Every desire has a threshold value attached to it. For example filling the stomach to survive or live is a Dharma Aviruddha Kama (DAK). Suppose one begins to eat to survive and later begins to live to eat. The DAK becomes Dharma Viruddha Kama. (DVK). Eating a piece of chicken to survive is not Paapa. But Eating a Kg or two of Baingan ka bharta because you like the taste is surely Paapa. In the first case, the eating was DAK and in the second it is DVK. One should know what is DAK and when it becomes DVK. A DAK induces karma; as long as the kama remains DAK, the associated Karma is Akarma and even Vikarma, That is the effect of these actions do not stain the Atma. But when the Kama or desire transcends into DVK, then even inaction becomes Karma and stains the Atma. Hence, it is essential that one knows the difference between Karma, akarma and Vikarma KARMANOHI API BODDHAVYAM, BODDHAVYAM CA VIKARMANAH AKARMANAH CA BODDHAVYAM GAHANAA KARMANO GATIH KARMANI AKARMA YAH PASYET AKARMANI CA KARMA YAH SA BUDDHI MAAN MANUSHYESHU SA YUKTAH KRITSNA KARMA KRIT 4.17, 18, BG The sense of not doing anything while doing some thing comes only when the motivation of doing the work is as per Dharma or in accordance with Dharma. Bhagavad Gita tells us many times that it impossible for any one to be Action less, equivalently bereft of desire (ref to ch.3 adn 18). In fact, YADI AHAMKAARAM AASRITYA NA YOTSYA ITI MANYASE MITHYA ESHA VYAVASAAYATE PRAKRITIH TVAAM VIMOKSHYATI 18.59, BG The moral, therefoe, is do not try to be desireless; you would then be trying for the impossible. Try to keep your kama within the threshold limits, keep them Dharma aviruddho kma BALAM BALAVATAAM CA AHAM KAMA RAAGA VIVARJITAM dHARMA AVIRUDDHO BHOOTESHU KAMO ASMI BHARATH RISHABHAH 7.11, BG DAK is Godly; then why should one be desireless? Samudrala Krishna ------------------------- According Bhagvat Gita we have not to aspire for any results.Still however in our inner mind there is som e desire to have results of what we are doing. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ---------------------- Jai Shri Hari,Desire/ICHCHHAA is a degraded part (VIKAAR) of the insentient/JAD/ASAT/PRAKRITI/KSHETRA (ICHCHHAA DVESHH ....-GitaJi:13/6) and it is also an action/KARMA performed with the help of the mind (SHARIRVAANGMANOBHIRYAT KARMA ..... -GitaJi:18/15). Any action/KARMA performed for the SAT/SUPREME can lead to the SAT (KARMA CHAIVA TADARTHIYAM SADITYEVAAVIDHEEYATE .... - GitaJi 17/27). BhagavaanJi suggests Arjun to have desire for attaining the GOD ( "MAAMICHCHHAPTUM DHANANJAYA ... - Gitaji 12/9) as one of the methods towards God-realization. The desire to help others including family, community, country, world for their benefits (KALYAAN) can also help the truth seeker (i.e. SAADHAK) to realize the TRUTH (...SARVABHOOTHITERATAAH.. - GitaJi:5/25,12/4). Whenever we are told by Saints/Scriptures to be free from desires they mean for "not having desire for insentient/ASAT/JAD". May God bless us all!Niteesh Dubey------- Jai HanumanWe make a mockery of ourselves by desiring. What we have to get...we shall get. What we don't have to get ..we shall not get. What desires are going to do? Worldly things will not stop coming to you if you do not desire. But sorrows will stop coming to you if you do not desire. Your mind 'cheats' you when it suggests that 'to renounce desires is very difficult.' ! But the mind never suggests that 'to fulfill desires is impossible' !! Hence, this suggestion comes from Conscience, Self, Scriptures, Satsanga, and Saints and Sages... !! This is Truth.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------- Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, thanks for the question! Swamiji Maharaj has expounded on this subject extensively in his discourses and writings. Having a desire for the temporary is the major obstacle in Sadhak's spiritual path. As Meera Dasji mentioned in her response, one whole chapter has been devoted to this subject in the following Swamiji's books: - Amrit Bindu (in Hindi, page 16) - Drops of Nectre (in English) In Ramcharitmanas, Goswami Tulsidasji says: ehi tana kara phala bishya na bhai, svargu svalpa anta dukhdai nara tanu pai bishya mana dehi, palati sudha te satha bisha lehi (Uttara: 44-1) " Sensuous enjoyment, brethren, is not the be-all and end-all of human existence: even heavenly enjoyment is short-lived and ends in sorrow. The fools who devote their mind to the pleasures of sense even after attaining human birth take poison in exchange for nectar." binu samtosha na kaama nasahi, kama achata sukha sapnehu nahi rama bhajana binu mitahi ki kama, thala nihina taru kabahu ki jama (Uttara: 90-1) "Without contentment, desire cannot cease; and so long as desire continues you can never dream of happiness. Again, can desire be got rid of without adoring Sri Rama? Can a tree ever take root without soil? Can even-mindedness be acquired without spiritual enlighten? In Gitaji, many many verses declare the desire to be a major hurdle. - Arjuna asked the question - why a human being commits sin? (3-36), Lord Krishna explains the desire to be the sole reason for committing sin. By having desire, one cannot escape sin. Few references from Gita: - Verses 2/62-63, explains how desire can lead to the destruction of man - Verse 2/55, one can transform into a man of steady wisdom without desire - Verse 5/12, who works with a selfish motive, through desire, gets bound - Verse 16/10-12, 16/18, 16/21, explain - the desire for the temporary enjoyment and accumulation is the main feature of demonic endowment (Asuraic Sampadi). || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura -------------------------- Hari OmSureshji ! You 'get' in the world anything NOT because you 'desired' but because you made 'karma' ( now or in past)! You do not do 'karma' because of desires ! The fact is that you can not remain without doing karma for even a fraction of a second. There is no corelation thus between your 'desire' and 'karma' ! Some body is sick. You are doing karma of attending to him. Did you desire sickness for him? Don't you yourself 'get' sickness sometimes? What kind of desire you made to get sick. So 'getting' has no corelation with 'desiring'. If by desire only you get say money, tell me who will remain poor in this world? All desire to have money... Is not it ? But are all rich? Hence it is not 'desire' which gets you anything... It is 'karma' (efforts and destiny) which get you worldly things. Desire has only one co-relation ! With Sorrow !! The moment you 'desire'... Sorrow becomes the guaranteed result at that moment itself. Desire when arising 'INSTANTLY' creates deficiency in you ! Is deficiency a sorrowful or a happy state? Desires- AS A LAW- Whether arising, continuing, getting fulfilled and not getting fulfilled - in all the possible four scenarios - generate sorrow only. NOTHING, NOTHING, except sorrow. Why desire then has been given to you ? Where you should employ it ? What can you get by 'mere desiring' except sorrow ? Sureshji ! One more thing you can get 'merely by desiring'- God ! Interested ? Any takers ?So by ' desiring' if made with reference with reference to the world 'gets' you ONLY sorrows. But, If made with reference to God.... Gets you God !! Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu SukhinaNarottam - Kaama or desire is engendered organically from 'dhyaan' or contemplation asrevealed by Shree Purushottam in chapter 2, verse 62.'Sanga' means attachment or 'raaga'. Such attachment is bred in the mind byvirtue of contemplation. Therefore, it should be concluded by those with finerbrain substance that desire can be either good or bad depending on that whichthe individual contemplates.Contemplation is the virtual key to getting entangled in lusty affairs as wellas the key to detachment. Spirit has form and leela. If those leelas arecontemplated, particularly as they flow off the lips of the sadhu can breeddetachment from matter by a spiritual attachment. Attachment to spiritautomatically divests one of material attachment.Since sound is so powerful a medium we should be all ears when it comes toHari-katha. By hearing Krishna-katha all negative issues are destroyed. WhatKrishna speaks and what He does are all positive- 'punya sravana kirtana'.Meditation on His Form and Leela is the perfect medicine to bring about Cupid'sdemise. By hearing Rasaleela from the sadhu with an attentive mind then what arethe consequences?The result is that the mind will be relieved of lust. Thus the affairs ofconjugal love that is demonstrated in Vrindavana by the speaker of the Gita, canactually terminate our bondage to lust and subjugation by Cupid. Such is thegreat power of Krishna-leela-katha.Therefore, the bars of the prison-like world are broken and dismantled for onewho directs his mind towards the unlimitedly powerful Person and Hisall-redeeming pastimes.Hari bol,BV Avadoot Dear Sadhakas, and Sureshji, Namaste!No one can not desire, only one has to know what and how to!If one thinks, believes and acts as if he/she is a "person", an individual having personal will, and independent existence apart from the world, all his/her desires are going to be problematic only. One may desire anything but the fulfillment of such desire is dependent on so many factors, most of which are unknown and hence are not in person's control. As we are all connected so much that a person's desires will be in conflict with others' desires.Therefore Swamiji and Gita say not to have desires in the sense that just act to the best of your ability, as an instrument of God!It is not that one should not have desires, one should have impersonal desires. How? By taking body-mind as an instrument and realizing that the desire is God's way to fulfill God's work for greater good ALWAYS! By all means become doctors, lawyers, engineers, or whatever one's heart tells, but only to act Impersonally in that role.Desires are to be managed as God's representative. After all how God is going to take care of sustenance of people? Only by triggering such desires in some instrument for all of us to share! Our connectivity is the only Truth about LIFE, not our individuality!You know what, dear ones, just try to be impersonal and desire to your heart's content! Then accept whatever comes your way!"You" will be never disappointed!Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt ----------------------- Mind is under the illusion that the desire for more will end, will take one to a satisfactory state. It is under the illusion that struggle to achieve will ever end. It is always expecting the struggle to end by one’s own efforts. One is under the impression that desire for more (struggle to reach) will ever end. Desire for more is the operative element of the human mind and can not be satisfactorily ended. In fact, one desires more to end the desire at some point (when more is actualized). When the illusion to reach (end) drops, desire is intention and its fulfillment a wonder from moment to moment. Y V Chawla ------------------------ The desire-free situation does not arise at one step. Now, you still breath evenif you do not have any desire. You may eat when you are hungry even if you haveno desire to eat or taste good food. Just because you do not have any desire youdo not stop breathing or stop eating when hunger makes to eat something whichyou may not desire to eat. Without desire and without motivation, you do notbecome lazy enough to stop breathing and eating.Next step, if you have a desire not to have desire for consuming materialthings, you can develop motivation of doing things such that you continue tolive and work and do not become lazy. If your desire is to know the Self onlyand nothing else, you will meditate even if you do any work. By concentrating onmeditation alone, you do become lazy, you still work. You want to love peopleand help the weak and poor, you do not become lazy although you do not have anydesire for personal material consumption and wealth accumulation.Next, once one gets to know that the outcome or fruits of his work is not underhis control, he can still work even if he is not certain what the result willbe. He plays his innings as best as he can but he gives up the desire to score acentury. He knows if he is destined he will score century. He concentrates onplaying perfectly and enjoying irrespective of thinking aboutthe consequencesbeing as he would have desired.Think for yourself. Most people often do best in many things even without desireto achive any particular goal for personal satisfaction.Basudeb Sen---------------------------- Dear Suresh Chandra,Namaste!See the Shloka pasted below, read carefully Swamiji's comment from Sadhaka Sanjivani page 1738/39.Srimad Bhagavadgita Chapt. 16 : 11Obsessed lifelong with innumerable cares that end only with death, steeped in the gratification of desires and accumulation of wealth as the highest aim, and convinced that, that is the end-all. 11'Comment:—''Cintamaparimeyaih ca pralayantamupasritah"—They are beset with innumerable cares, worries and anxieties, till they die. So they have to follow, a cycle of birth and death.The cares or worries, can be of two kinds—the spiritual and mundane. Those, who are worried about their salvation, are noble. But people possessing a demoniac nature, are not beset with spiritual worries. They are obsessed with, such cares and worries, as to how they could maintain honour, praise, fame and prestige etc., how they would live long, what would happen to their family, wealth and property, after their death and so on.But the fact is, that a man is worried out of ignorance. The Lord, provides the necessities of life to people, according to their fortune. When a person dies, he leaves behind several things and objects, unconsumed. Even a dispassionate saint leaves his loincloth and a pot made of hollowed gourd, when he dies, when a rich man dies, his riches are of no avail, to him…. Surely you are not living in a vacuum, how often does one hear of some fabulously wealthy superstar, being carted off to the morgue, dying full of drugs, prescribed or otherwise? What demons make them frightened to be alive, and yet scared of death. None of their acquisitions can obscure the fear that haunts them! Om... Shanti...Mike Keenor ---------------------- Dear Sadaks,Animals do not desire. The edibility to desire was given to Human only to have Mukthi/Salvation. But this is used in wrong direction. If one has desires, and if fulfilled (1) he does not stop there. Maruthi Car then Skoda and then exchange new model or even buy a airplane, or further desire to go into space like people booking for space travel. It is not going to stop there. Then to other planets etc. So Sri Krishna Bagavan in Geetha said, the desire is like pouring Ghee in fire to put it off. But fire will grow. (2) Unfullfiled desire, this is going to bother too much, put one in constant thought as to how one can get desire, in the process one gets angry due to frustration of unfullfiled desire, or even go to level of robbery or murder. So the desire in both ways fullfiled or unfullfiled is going to divert one from Paramathuma and make one focus on world. The unfullfiled desire even for good cause leads to one more birth. Like Sant Namadev, had desire to complete his Abangs but death was near to him. Though Bagavan Vital appeared at the last breath, Namadev desire remained as such Bagavan said, "You Bakth Namadev, you shall be born as Tukaram to fullfil your desire to complete Abangs and then reach ME". In Bagavath a king was so crazy on Urvasi, so much so after his death he was born in the world where Urvasi was. It happened that Urvasi abuses that king badly and then he realizes the cause of desire and waste of valuable time. Coming to materialist world: if one is to gifted with car, bunglow, wives, pleanty of money all comes by itself based on his Prarabdha Karma. This Karma will give all such desires to aquire them. But if one is not destined to get it, he remains poor inspite of hard, sincere and honest efforts.So, what one gets by doing Karma or work, he should be happy and contended. Having desire more than what got is greed. One can have pleanty of money, good wife, unestimated wealth, excellant brothers and family. But if he is going to get attached to it a little, that is enough to bring in Ego, which will bring in disaster. Example; RAVAN.B.Sathyanarayan ---------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Quoting a couple of points from Drops of Nectar by Swamiji regarding desires - One who has no desires at all, his needs are met by nature (prakriti) itself, on its own. By desiring something, few things will be attained and others will not be attained. But by not desiring, everything is attained. So long as an aspirant desires anything (i.e. wealth, his own happiness, comforts, respect, name and fame etc.), till that time his individuality (vyaktitva) is not eliminated, and without that happening, real attainment (union with The Divine, our true and essential nature) will not take place Meera Das, Ram Ram ----------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Thank you for the question. This question has been addressed often in Swamiji's daily messages, as well as, in Gita Talk discussions. Couple of the daily messages that pertains to your question is posted below. Please read very very carefully, and if there are any doubts, please ask again. Sadhak messages - Why are you Buying Poverty - sadhaka/message/2087 Please also read the recent Gita talk discussion on - Sustainance of Life is Independent on Effort and Possessions @ /message/3100 Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------------- Duties happen automatically and naturally on renunciation of Desires If a man has a particular desire, it is not a rule that this desire will always be satisfied. A desire may or may not be satiated. Till today all the desires of even a single individual have not been satiated, nor will they ever be satiated. If a desire is born, and if it is not fulfilled, it causes a lot of pain. But the condition of man is such that he continues to feel saddened by unfulfilled desires, simultaneously he continues to have new desires ! The outcome is that neither all his desires are fulfilled, nor does the pain andsorrow end. Therefore if a person wants to be rescued from pain, the remedy is Renunciation of Desires (Kaamanaa ka tyaag). In the scriptures it is written that in this human body, there is a predominance of action. Deep within himself, when a man, has the desire to acquire something, he is inclined to act. An action is of two kinds -"kartavya" (duty, i.e. what ought to be done) and "akartavya" (what ought not be done). Performance of action with a disinterested spirit (nishkaam bhava) i.e. FREE OF DESIRES, is "kartavya". Performance of action with interested spirit (with personal desires) is "Akartavya." - NOT DUTY. The root of Akartavya is desire for sensual pleasures that come from association. When desire for pleasure is wiped out, Akartavya does not happen. And when Akartavya does not happen, one automatically and by default observes "Kartavya", i.e DUTY is inevitably protected and fostered. Thespiritual discipline that happens naturally or automatically is real (authentic), whereas that spiritual discipline that is practiced intentionallywith effort is unreal (artificial). Ram Ram From "The Salvation of Mankind" in English by Swami Ramsukhdasji. ------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Three things are essential to get worldly things - desire, efforts and destiny. First you should have a desire to get / acquire a worldly thing, second, you should make an effort (do karma) to getthe same. And thirdly, even after making an effort and doing karma, you will get that thing, only if you are destined to get it. If you are not destined to get the thing then even after desiring and making efforts you will not get the same. Therefore many times we make an effort to gain a profit, but end up incurring losses! But God is realized merely by desiring. There is no need of any effort or destiny. In path of God realization there is never a loss, there is profit and profit only. Except God, merely by desiring we do not get any other thing. Reason is that the human body has been given to us only for God realization. God has given this human body to us, with the aim and objective of realizing Him. Secondly, God is everywhere. There is no space even the size of a needle point that is without God being there. Therefore in His realization, there is no role of effort and destiny.By doing Karma (efforts, deeds) we get only perishable things. Imperishable God cannot be realized by doing (karmas). He is realized solely by intense desire.From "Maanav Matra ke Kalyaan ke Liye" in Hindi, page 74-75 by SwamiRamsukhdasji Maharaj --------------Shree Hari ||Ram Ram 22nd December, 2009, Tuesday, Paush Shukla Shasthi Dependency is not liked by anyone. A dependent man does not gain happiness even in his sleep. "Paraadheen sapanehun sukhu naahi." (Manasa 1:102:3). Inspite of being so, then too man desires happiness from others, desires respect from others, desires praise from others, desires to gain from others - this is so very astonishing ! He who desires happiness from things, from individuals, from situations, from circumstances, from events, from various states / stages, from rest and relaxation, from gain, he has to become dependent. He cannot be saved whether he be Brahma or Indra or anyone for that matter. I say this to the extent that even Bhagwaan cannot be saved. He who desires something from anyone will definitely become dependent.He who desires Paramatma, he is not dependent; because Paramatma is not other. This Jeev (embodied soul) is very much an "ansh" (part of, ray of consciousness) of Paramatma, but on desiring anything other than Paramatma we become dependent; because besides Paramatma, nothing else is ours. It is only on having no desire for other things, that desire for Paramatma is awakened. If desire for other things does not remain, then Paramatma will be realized. When there is desire for anything, that desire validates a deficiency, a lack of something. In other words, unnecessarily at no cost, why are you buying paucity? If you desire to be happy, then do not desire happiness from anyone. Get rid of this thought completely from within - once and for all that "We will gain from another." Nothing can be done by anyone. He who desires something from another, can he be saved from dependency? Can he become independent? Therefore make this point firm - I will not desire anything from anyone! He who sees himself has reliant on that which is acuqired and later gets away(i.e. perishables), how can he be happy? The Self is not one that is created and destroyed (perishable). The Self is Imperishable. There is another very extraordinary point - He who desire something from another is non-deserving. He is not deserving at all. Just like, one who desires respect from another, he is not deserving of respect. He who is deserving of respect, does not desire respect. If you look into it, out of 18 Akshouni armies, in which all were Kshatriyas and Kshatriyas alone, and inspite of being a Kshatriya Himself, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna, became a charioteer leading Arjun's horses. Such an ordinary task he undertook, that can be mocked! Can driving the horses be valiant work? Is it the kind of work that commands any respect? But He was not ashamed of doing such work. He was deserving of respect therefore he had no desire for respect. Now how is one to know that He is deserving of respect? In the opposite army, Bhishmaji is the first one to blow the conch, and in this army, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna is the first to blow the conch. Because in the Kaurava army, the most important person was Bhishma and in the Pandava army the most important person was Shri Krishna. He who desires respect is a slave to respect and is not deserving of any respect. He who desires disciples, is a slave to disciples and is not a Guru. He who desires wealth is a slave to wealth, not a master of wealth. Therefore desires must be removed from the mind completely. From "Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu" in Hindi pg 714 by Swami RamsukhdasjiRam Ram For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org ===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only) 5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted. 7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Question for you : If there is no desire for anything then there is nomotivation to do anything. People will be lazy and will not do anything. In my thought people should have desire then he will try to get what he is trying to accomplish, it does not matter what it is, may be higher position, more wealth, big house, new car etc., in terms of respect you don't desire, you earn it. please reply. Thanks Suresh Chandra------------ NEW POSTING joyfully reading the loving words of the sadhaks true narinder prayed to Krishna thus : " Krishna beloved, Govinda my Love ..... narinder now desires freedom from desire ..... Desirelessness he desires... freedom from desire, on narinder bestow ... Krishna O ..." and krishna enigmatically did smile .... " Nari .... O narinder .......... if you indeed do desire to be free from desire, beloved ................ why ? just drop the desire for desirelessness too ! Free you are ............... ever free ............Be free ...........just be !!!!! " AUM narinder Bhandari ---------- As per the Bhagavans version in geetha, we have to perform all the karmas without aspiring for the result.That is called nishkama karma.Satkarmacharana is the only way to get relieved of the bond of births and deaths.First of all we have to divide what is need and what is desire.Eating to maitain this body is need but aspiring a sumptuous dinner in a five star hotel is a desire.After this another desire to possess a car.The chain has no end and our life span is not sufficient to get the desires fulfilled.So the sadhaka must get him self satisfied with what he gets with minimum or no effort (Yadrucha labha santusto) Badri Narayana Miriyala --Dear Sadaks,FIRST PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT IS DESIRE. ALSO TELL ME THE DEFINITION OR PROCESS THE DESIRE.NAMASTE B.Sathyanarayan- Shree Hari Ram Ram I do not comprehend English well, therefore knowledgable sadhaks please help me to quench my thirst. Shri Narottamji says - 'Desire (Kaamana) has to be given direction and converted into curiousity/abhilaasha.' Shraddhey Swamiji has written "desires are for perishable inert objects, wherease essential needs (aavashyaktaah) are for the consciousness element "paramaatmaa tattva" (in Sadhak Sanjivani hindi pg 933]. If only by giving direction to desires, it will be adequate then Swamiji too would have spoken about giving direction to desires. To give up all desires entirely is not spoken in the Gitaji also (per my understanding). [गीता 2 : 71]. O' listen to what Swamiji has said? "Our needs are of the Consciousness Element (paramatma tattva) . We must never forget this essential need. This must be kept alive at all times (Manav Maatre Kalyaan ke Liye. pg 161) . In this, where did the desire "kaamnaa" come from? What meaning can be taken of the english word "desire"? If this was clearly stated then perhaps it would be understood. So be it, Vineet Sarvottam ----------- Dear Sadaks, Sri Chandra said, {People will be lazy and will not do anything.} There are people like that totally lazy. Why? Can anyone answer. He again said,{ In my thought people should have desire then he will try to get what he is trying to accomplish, it does not matter what it is, may be higher position, more wealth, big house, new car etc., in terms of respect you don't desire, you earn it.} There are people slogging very hard earn plenty of money and have all comforts. Why? Sadaks Please answer.. Please bear in mind the both types of persons are bestowed with exactly identical physical feature (Enabled Body), but the 2 act 2 ways. Another Sadak says, {According Bhagvat Gita we have not to aspire for any results} Anything aspiring without result is duty. NOT DESIRE. Again said,{Still however in our inner mind there is some desire to have results of what we are doing.} From where that desire came in inner mind? Answer Please. Another Sadak said, {"HAVING NO DESIRES IS THE SUREST WAY TO RELEASE", KILL ALL YOUR DESIRES}. To have NO desire is not easy at all. One cannot kill desire as it is not his control. It goes by itself. Like told several times in Sastras, when Sunlight comes darkness dispels. Another Sadak said, {According to mother Sarda, desires for knowledge, devotion, Seva and salvation cannot be classed as desires because they are higher desires.} Here apart from knowledge, Seva also falls under desire. Salvation happens on one`s merit of mind intellect and body. No one can desire for salvation. It is a gift from Bagavan NOT one's right. Another Sadak said, {several examples in Mahabharata where Lord Krishna Himself allowed not only the breaking the values of Ahimsa and truthfulness, but also encouraged it} Totally wrong. No Ahimsa or truthfulness was broken. Besides the act of Bagavan DOES NOT come under desire, but it comes under Duty. In Vedas it is clear. 1) To protect 10 people, one man can be killed. 2) To protect a village 10 people can be killed. 3) To protect a big city, a village totally can be destroyed. This comes under Loka Dharma and Lok Kalyan. Here, where comes Ahimsa while protecting 10 times Dharma. Dear Sir, CAN YOU show me one place where truth was broken? Before just answering think of Sri Krishna go deep within. Again I wish to repeat the same Example: The desire of Sant Namadev to complete the holy Abang, is it wrong? That desire gave another birth as Sant Tukaram. The desire of Raja Yogi Bharat in Srimat Bagavath, to protect a baby deer, resulted in another birth as a deer. In both cases, the desire was though pure in nature, but gave births as result. But the result of pure desire gave result of salvation in next birth. Sadaks, I have asked for the definition of "Desire". Can anyone reply in one line, for benefit of all. B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------- Reverend Sirs,I do not myself see how saying that it is right to desire but wrong to be attached to one's desire, desire and attachment both being affective and not cognitive reactions, adds to the clarity of the debate. It would, I think, be more helpful to say that while the affective reaction of desiring is natural to man, the cognitive reaction of realising the ephemeral nature of the worldly objects of desire is essential if suffering is to be avoided. A closely allied idea has been brilliantly summed up in the following words of the agnostic poet, Shelley :"Sceptre and crown must tumble down and in the dust be equal made with the humble scythe and spade". That is why I have been pleading for the bringing of clarification to the Gita talks debates of whatever light can be had from philosophy, science and even poetry, despite their essentially agnostic character. Respectfully,Jasmer Singh ---------------------------- Hari OmThere is a difference between desire and duty. One is propellellor/cause ..another effect. Neetishji Dubey has perfectly explained the distinction between "desire" for world (kaamana) and Prem( Abhilasha) for God. Sushilji Jain has also indeed reflected the truth. Desire (Kaamana) has to be given direction and converted into Curiousity/Abhilaasha. You must rise higher. You have desires in you from day 1. You have taken birth only because of them. They are in built in you. Basically, you have only 3 desires existing in you. 1 Desire to know 2 Desire to do 3 Desire to get.Now if there is a desire , then as a Law, there must be an element existing which fulfills those desires. Else the desire would not have been there. Your desire to do extinguishes when you do for others- expectationless service to the world .. Because that is relinquishment. Akarma ...! Desire to know extinguishes when you know your 'self'. But we go reverse... We have to do for others, we try to do for self. We have to know 'self' we try to know others... And suffer, suffer and suffer !!If any desire is given by Divine Laws to you...the powers to fulfill them are also given. For the desire to do, you have right to do. For the desire to know, you have right to know. But you don't have a right 'to get' !! For desire to get..the right granted to you is "Power to believe" ! Why ? Because you have already got that element. You don't believe so and are trying to get worldly things. If you believe that you are separate from the world, complete in yourself, Son of the King of all the Kings, part of God and God only.... Nothing remains to be got ! Your connection with God is inseparable.Pranaams to all Sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina.Narottam--------------------------- Desire is not wrong but it's attachment to desire that is wrong. Otherwise Hinduism has one of it's goals as desire. Krishna never left the world, he enjoyed it, all desires if you want to call them that but he was unattached to them. It is non- attachment that matters not the desire itself. Anil Bhanot ----------------------------- Ram Ram Sadhakas, The question of eradication of desire and becoming absolutely free from all desires is certainly a very noble goal such as Absolute Ahimsa as practiced by some Jain brothers. in my juddgement any value cannot be practiced in absolute term. there are several examples in Mahabharata where Lord Krishna Himself allowed not only the breaking the values of Ahimsa and truthfulness, but also encouraged.it. but it depends on the situation. According to mother Sarda, desires for knowledge, devotion, Seva and salvation cannot be classed as desires because they are higher desires. One should first replace the lower desires with higher desires and then renounce the highest desires also and beÂcome absolutely free. It is said that the highest freedom is the freedom from becoming free. thus there are situations where having a selfless desrire (Nishkaama bhaava) is necessary to run the society. these are called "enlightened self interest". but the same rules that apply to a renunciant such as Gurudeva, cannot be applied to a Grihastha, otherwise the world will not run. i would like to see more discussions and all view points and summary on this very important subject. yours hariom roy ------------------------------- Jai HanumanOf course there is a need to understand the meanings of the terms Karma, Akarma, Vikarma as they are employed in Bhagvad Gita.Doing your duty, Selfless/Expectationless Service is "Akarma". Here you are not doing for your 'self' ! "A" before "karma" negates it to be for you ( without desire for results) ! You are doing for others. You are renouncing in fact. You are employing inert back into the inert. You are changing the direction of Karma towards the world from whom only you got the very faculty and tools for "to do". All karmas done with Equanimity are "Akarmas". "Karmas" are those actions which we do "with a worldly desire" say for results. They essentially create a bondage for you- irrespective of whether the "Karta" ( Jeeva) was sattwik, rajasic or tamasic at the time of doing the Karma. Unless a Karma is in nature of "Akarma"- it binds you - by positive (favourable), negative (adverse) and mixed results. A Sadhak strives to convert these automatically happenning Karmas into "Akarmas". He changes his 'bhavas' in order to do that. He changes/purifies his ego in order to convert "karmas" into "akarmas"- so that he gets no further bondaged and gets liberated- becomes peaceful."Vikarmas" are prohibited Karmas which a human is not supposed to do. They should not be done. They give negative results always.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala -------------------------------- Hari OmDESIRES when arising instantly create a sense of deficiency in you. Before the desire arose you were not deficient.DESIRES when continuing there is pain continuing of labour, efforts, uncertainty, running against time, competition, envy, centralisation, fear of failure, tensions, anxieties ....DESIRES when fulfilled - more desires will arise instantly Simultaneously pride, greed, dishonesty, envy, injustice and falsehood also arise, ego baloons and there arises an anxiety /worry for 'maintaining what you have got' ! On the top of it, with whatever you get "connected" with- as fulfillment of desires- starts "disconnecting" from you from the very moment of connection itself ! Come On ! Then, you get only that which MUST leave you !! You are back to square one in all cases. DESIRES when not fulfilled- pain increase geometrically- from deficiency, uncertainty, loss of energy/efforts/time to .... frustration, failure, depression, hatred, jeolosy, loss of confidence, humiliation, blaming, cursing the time/luck/others , ... And to what not ?And then also worldly things do not stay with you. If they stay, you don't stay. Disconnection with them is a MUST. You never never become owners of them. Ownership is assumed never the actual.STRANGELY, we all feel, that we get pleasure by 'fulfillment of desires" ! FACT IS that fulfillment of desires do not get you pleasure, the 'relinquishment' ( tyaag) of desires by mind gets you pleasure (peace) !!Sadhaks may note that various laws, principles relating to "desires" as stated in Gita or as so benevolently discovered and explained by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj are absolutely scientific, logical and universally applicable. Hence there is no dearth or absence of "scientific " yardsticks in His theories, laws, principles etc. They appeal to logic and soul. They are part of your daily experiences. They are tested, experienced, and proven laws/principles. They get confirmed by Shruti, Yukti and Anubhuti yardsticks also. Hence one can fearlessly strive for 'extinguishment of desires'. In the end one has to 'extinguish' them only.... no body has ever been able to 'fulfill' them. No body...In the words of Swamiji .. Desire of even the 'baap' (father) of Lord Rama was not fulfilled !! There is no provision made for it ... ! Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina.Narottam------------------- Understanding of principles of life is the key... It is all a grand play......to be understood and played accordingly...The whole creation exists because of the desires..... Having desires is alright....... Getting disturbed if desires are not fulfilled is not.... Quality of desires is also important..... higher the desire...where there is good for all is better and more fulfilling... In spirituality, with the understanding of life, when the conciousness level rises, the desire is to be with him - to be - the all powerful.......to be with nothing which has everything....to be in joy and happiness all the time....blissful......this is what everyone looks for from each and every low level desire..... You have a choice to choose low level desires or the highest level desire....to merge with the creator...the results come accordingly..... It is all your order. Nature starts working the movement you have desires at the thought level.....all you need is to have patience and faith......for nature to work on and bring you what you ordered.......try it.....look back in life and reflect on how things happened in your life......What desires you had at various times of your life....how these got fulfilled or why these did not... Best wishes to everyone for the blissful new years to come....... Sushil Jain ------------------------ My fellow learners, "HAVING NO DESIRES IS THE SUREST WAY TO RELEASE", KILL ALL YOUR DESIRES" and such noble sounding slogans are just for public consumption. They are not practical nor necessary to release or MOksha. Suppose one kills all desires; why did he do so? The answer is "TO GET MOKSHA". iS THIS NOT A DSIRE? Thus wishing . to kill all desires is again a desire and in fact, the biggest of all desires. Thus, having no desires or killing all desires is an impossibility and one who says that it is the only way to Moksha is talking thru his hat. Desires or Kama are divided into two categories - Aharma Aviruddha and Dharma viruddha kama. To breath is a desire, to fill the stomach to survive is a desire. To put your children in the right path is both a desire and responsibility (kartavya). Every desire has a threshold value attached to it. For example filling the stomach to survive or live is a Dharma Aviruddha Kama (DAK). Suppose one begins to eat to survive and later begins to live to eat. The DAK becomes Dharma Viruddha Kama. (DVK). Eating a piece of chicken to survive is not Paapa. But Eating a Kg or two of Baingan ka bharta because you like the taste is surely Paapa. In the first case, the eating was DAK and in the second it is DVK. One should know what is DAK and when it becomes DVK. A DAK induces karma; as long as the kama remains DAK, the associated Karma is Akarma and even Vikarma, That is the effect of these actions do not stain the Atma. But when the Kama or desire transcends into DVK, then even inaction becomes Karma and stains the Atma. Hence, it is essential that one knows the difference between Karma, akarma and Vikarma KARMANOHI API BODDHAVYAM, BODDHAVYAM CA VIKARMANAH AKARMANAH CA BODDHAVYAM GAHANAA KARMANO GATIH KARMANI AKARMA YAH PASYET AKARMANI CA KARMA YAH SA BUDDHI MAAN MANUSHYESHU SA YUKTAH KRITSNA KARMA KRIT 4.17, 18, BG The sense of not doing anything while doing some thing comes only when the motivation of doing the work is as per Dharma or in accordance with Dharma. Bhagavad Gita tells us many times that it impossible for any one to be Action less, equivalently bereft of desire (ref to ch.3 adn 18). In fact, YADI AHAMKAARAM AASRITYA NA YOTSYA ITI MANYASE MITHYA ESHA VYAVASAAYATE PRAKRITIH TVAAM VIMOKSHYATI 18.59, BG The moral, therefoe, is do not try to be desireless; you would then be trying for the impossible. Try to keep your kama within the threshold limits, keep them Dharma aviruddho kma BALAM BALAVATAAM CA AHAM KAMA RAAGA VIVARJITAM dHARMA AVIRUDDHO BHOOTESHU KAMO ASMI BHARATH RISHABHAH 7.11, BG DAK is Godly; then why should one be desireless? Samudrala Krishna ------------------------- According Bhagvat Gita we have not to aspire for any results.Still however in our inner mind there is som e desire to have results of what we are doing. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt ---------------------- Jai Shri Hari,Desire/ICHCHHAA is a degraded part (VIKAAR) of the insentient/JAD/ASAT/PRAKRITI/KSHETRA (ICHCHHAA DVESHH ....-GitaJi:13/6) and it is also an action/KARMA performed with the help of the mind (SHARIRVAANGMANOBHIRYAT KARMA ..... -GitaJi:18/15). Any action/KARMA performed for the SAT/SUPREME can lead to the SAT (KARMA CHAIVA TADARTHIYAM SADITYEVAAVIDHEEYATE .... - GitaJi 17/27). BhagavaanJi suggests Arjun to have desire for attaining the GOD ( "MAAMICHCHHAPTUM DHANANJAYA ... - Gitaji 12/9) as one of the methods towards God-realization. The desire to help others including family, community, country, world for their benefits (KALYAAN) can also help the truth seeker (i.e. SAADHAK) to realize the TRUTH (...SARVABHOOTHITERATAAH.. - GitaJi:5/25,12/4). Whenever we are told by Saints/Scriptures to be free from desires they mean for "not having desire for insentient/ASAT/JAD". May God bless us all!Niteesh Dubey------- Jai HanumanWe make a mockery of ourselves by desiring. What we have to get...we shall get. What we don't have to get ..we shall not get. What desires are going to do? Worldly things will not stop coming to you if you do not desire. But sorrows will stop coming to you if you do not desire. Your mind 'cheats' you when it suggests that 'to renounce desires is very difficult.' ! But the mind never suggests that 'to fulfill desires is impossible' !! Hence, this suggestion comes from Conscience, Self, Scriptures, Satsanga, and Saints and Sages... !! This is Truth.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala ---------- Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sureshji, thanks for the question! Swamiji Maharaj has expounded on this subject extensively in his discourses and writings. Having a desire for the temporary is the major obstacle in Sadhak's spiritual path. As Meera Dasji mentioned in her response, one whole chapter has been devoted to this subject in the following Swamiji's books: - Amrit Bindu (in Hindi, page 16) - Drops of Nectre (in English) In Ramcharitmanas, Goswami Tulsidasji says: ehi tana kara phala bishya na bhai, svargu svalpa anta dukhdai nara tanu pai bishya mana dehi, palati sudha te satha bisha lehi (Uttara: 44-1) " Sensuous enjoyment, brethren, is not the be-all and end-all of human existence: even heavenly enjoyment is short-lived and ends in sorrow. The fools who devote their mind to the pleasures of sense even after attaining human birth take poison in exchange for nectar." binu samtosha na kaama nasahi, kama achata sukha sapnehu nahi rama bhajana binu mitahi ki kama, thala nihina taru kabahu ki jama (Uttara: 90-1) "Without contentment, desire cannot cease; and so long as desire continues you can never dream of happiness. Again, can desire be got rid of without adoring Sri Rama? Can a tree ever take root without soil? Can even-mindedness be acquired without spiritual enlighten? In Gitaji, many many verses declare the desire to be a major hurdle. - Arjuna asked the question - why a human being commits sin? (3-36), Lord Krishna explains the desire to be the sole reason for committing sin. By having desire, one cannot escape sin. Few references from Gita: - Verses 2/62-63, explains how desire can lead to the destruction of man - Verse 2/55, one can transform into a man of steady wisdom without desire - Verse 5/12, who works with a selfish motive, through desire, gets bound - Verse 16/10-12, 16/18, 16/21, explain - the desire for the temporary enjoyment and accumulation is the main feature of demonic endowment (Asuraic Sampadi). || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura -------------------------- Hari OmSureshji ! You 'get' in the world anything NOT because you 'desired' but because you made 'karma' ( now or in past)! You do not do 'karma' because of desires ! The fact is that you can not remain without doing karma for even a fraction of a second. There is no corelation thus between your 'desire' and 'karma' ! Some body is sick. You are doing karma of attending to him. Did you desire sickness for him? Don't you yourself 'get' sickness sometimes? What kind of desire you made to get sick. So 'getting' has no corelation with 'desiring'. If by desire only you get say money, tell me who will remain poor in this world? All desire to have money... Is not it ? But are all rich? Hence it is not 'desire' which gets you anything... It is 'karma' (efforts and destiny) which get you worldly things. Desire has only one co-relation ! With Sorrow !! The moment you 'desire'... Sorrow becomes the guaranteed result at that moment itself. Desire when arising 'INSTANTLY' creates deficiency in you ! Is deficiency a sorrowful or a happy state? Desires- AS A LAW- Whether arising, continuing, getting fulfilled and not getting fulfilled - in all the possible four scenarios - generate sorrow only. NOTHING, NOTHING, except sorrow. Why desire then has been given to you ? Where you should employ it ? What can you get by 'mere desiring' except sorrow ? Sureshji ! One more thing you can get 'merely by desiring'- God ! Interested ? Any takers ?So by ' desiring' if made with reference with reference to the world 'gets' you ONLY sorrows. But, If made with reference to God.... Gets you God !! Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu SukhinaNarottam - Kaama or desire is engendered organically from 'dhyaan' or contemplation asrevealed by Shree Purushottam in chapter 2, verse 62.'Sanga' means attachment or 'raaga'. Such attachment is bred in the mind byvirtue of contemplation. Therefore, it should be concluded by those with finerbrain substance that desire can be either good or bad depending on that whichthe individual contemplates.Contemplation is the virtual key to getting entangled in lusty affairs as wellas the key to detachment. Spirit has form and leela. If those leelas arecontemplated, particularly as they flow off the lips of the sadhu can breeddetachment from matter by a spiritual attachment. Attachment to spiritautomatically divests one of material attachment.Since sound is so powerful a medium we should be all ears when it comes toHari-katha. By hearing Krishna-katha all negative issues are destroyed. WhatKrishna speaks and what He does are all positive- 'punya sravana kirtana'.Meditation on His Form and Leela is the perfect medicine to bring about Cupid'sdemise. By hearing Rasaleela from the sadhu with an attentive mind then what arethe consequences?The result is that the mind will be relieved of lust. Thus the affairs ofconjugal love that is demonstrated in Vrindavana by the speaker of the Gita, canactually terminate our bondage to lust and subjugation by Cupid. Such is thegreat power of Krishna-leela-katha.Therefore, the bars of the prison-like world are broken and dismantled for onewho directs his mind towards the unlimitedly powerful Person and Hisall-redeeming pastimes.Hari bol,BV Avadoot Dear Sadhakas, and Sureshji, Namaste!No one can not desire, only one has to know what and how to!If one thinks, believes and acts as if he/she is a "person", an individual having personal will, and independent existence apart from the world, all his/her desires are going to be problematic only. One may desire anything but the fulfillment of such desire is dependent on so many factors, most of which are unknown and hence are not in person's control. As we are all connected so much that a person's desires will be in conflict with others' desires.Therefore Swamiji and Gita say not to have desires in the sense that just act to the best of your ability, as an instrument of God!It is not that one should not have desires, one should have impersonal desires. How? By taking body-mind as an instrument and realizing that the desire is God's way to fulfill God's work for greater good ALWAYS! By all means become doctors, lawyers, engineers, or whatever one's heart tells, but only to act Impersonally in that role.Desires are to be managed as God's representative. After all how God is going to take care of sustenance of people? Only by triggering such desires in some instrument for all of us to share! Our connectivity is the only Truth about LIFE, not our individuality!You know what, dear ones, just try to be impersonal and desire to your heart's content! Then accept whatever comes your way!"You" will be never disappointed!Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt ----------------------- Mind is under the illusion that the desire for more will end, will take one to a satisfactory state. It is under the illusion that struggle to achieve will ever end. It is always expecting the struggle to end by one’s own efforts. One is under the impression that desire for more (struggle to reach) will ever end. Desire for more is the operative element of the human mind and can not be satisfactorily ended. In fact, one desires more to end the desire at some point (when more is actualized). When the illusion to reach (end) drops, desire is intention and its fulfillment a wonder from moment to moment. Y V Chawla ------------------------ The desire-free situation does not arise at one step. Now, you still breath evenif you do not have any desire. You may eat when you are hungry even if you haveno desire to eat or taste good food. Just because you do not have any desire youdo not stop breathing or stop eating when hunger makes to eat something whichyou may not desire to eat. Without desire and without motivation, you do notbecome lazy enough to stop breathing and eating.Next step, if you have a desire not to have desire for consuming materialthings, you can develop motivation of doing things such that you continue tolive and work and do not become lazy. If your desire is to know the Self onlyand nothing else, you will meditate even if you do any work. By concentrating onmeditation alone, you do become lazy, you still work. You want to love peopleand help the weak and poor, you do not become lazy although you do not have anydesire for personal material consumption and wealth accumulation.Next, once one gets to know that the outcome or fruits of his work is not underhis control, he can still work even if he is not certain what the result willbe. He plays his innings as best as he can but he gives up the desire to score acentury. He knows if he is destined he will score century. He concentrates onplaying perfectly and enjoying irrespective of thinking aboutthe consequencesbeing as he would have desired.Think for yourself. Most people often do best in many things even without desireto achive any particular goal for personal satisfaction.Basudeb Sen---------------------------- Dear Suresh Chandra,Namaste!See the Shloka pasted below, read carefully Swamiji's comment from Sadhaka Sanjivani page 1738/39.Srimad Bhagavadgita Chapt. 16 : 11Obsessed lifelong with innumerable cares that end only with death, steeped in the gratification of desires and accumulation of wealth as the highest aim, and convinced that, that is the end-all. 11'Comment:—''Cintamaparimeyaih ca pralayantamupasritah"—They are beset with innumerable cares, worries and anxieties, till they die. So they have to follow, a cycle of birth and death.The cares or worries, can be of two kinds—the spiritual and mundane. Those, who are worried about their salvation, are noble. But people possessing a demoniac nature, are not beset with spiritual worries. They are obsessed with, such cares and worries, as to how they could maintain honour, praise, fame and prestige etc., how they would live long, what would happen to their family, wealth and property, after their death and so on.But the fact is, that a man is worried out of ignorance. The Lord, provides the necessities of life to people, according to their fortune. When a person dies, he leaves behind several things and objects, unconsumed. Even a dispassionate saint leaves his loincloth and a pot made of hollowed gourd, when he dies, when a rich man dies, his riches are of no avail, to him…. Surely you are not living in a vacuum, how often does one hear of some fabulously wealthy superstar, being carted off to the morgue, dying full of drugs, prescribed or otherwise? What demons make them frightened to be alive, and yet scared of death. None of their acquisitions can obscure the fear that haunts them! Om... Shanti...Mike Keenor ---------------------- Dear Sadaks,Animals do not desire. The edibility to desire was given to Human only to have Mukthi/Salvation. But this is used in wrong direction. If one has desires, and if fulfilled (1) he does not stop there. Maruthi Car then Skoda and then exchange new model or even buy a airplane, or further desire to go into space like people booking for space travel. It is not going to stop there. Then to other planets etc. So Sri Krishna Bagavan in Geetha said, the desire is like pouring Ghee in fire to put it off. But fire will grow. (2) Unfullfiled desire, this is going to bother too much, put one in constant thought as to how one can get desire, in the process one gets angry due to frustration of unfullfiled desire, or even go to level of robbery or murder. So the desire in both ways fullfiled or unfullfiled is going to divert one from Paramathuma and make one focus on world. The unfullfiled desire even for good cause leads to one more birth. Like Sant Namadev, had desire to complete his Abangs but death was near to him. Though Bagavan Vital appeared at the last breath, Namadev desire remained as such Bagavan said, "You Bakth Namadev, you shall be born as Tukaram to fullfil your desire to complete Abangs and then reach ME". In Bagavath a king was so crazy on Urvasi, so much so after his death he was born in the world where Urvasi was. It happened that Urvasi abuses that king badly and then he realizes the cause of desire and waste of valuable time. Coming to materialist world: if one is to gifted with car, bunglow, wives, pleanty of money all comes by itself based on his Prarabdha Karma. This Karma will give all such desires to aquire them. But if one is not destined to get it, he remains poor inspite of hard, sincere and honest efforts.So, what one gets by doing Karma or work, he should be happy and contended. Having desire more than what got is greed. One can have pleanty of money, good wife, unestimated wealth, excellant brothers and family. But if he is going to get attached to it a little, that is enough to bring in Ego, which will bring in disaster. Example; RAVAN.B.Sathyanarayan ---------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Quoting a couple of points from Drops of Nectar by Swamiji regarding desires - One who has no desires at all, his needs are met by nature (prakriti) itself, on its own. By desiring something, few things will be attained and others will not be attained. But by not desiring, everything is attained. So long as an aspirant desires anything (i.e. wealth, his own happiness, comforts, respect, name and fame etc.), till that time his individuality (vyaktitva) is not eliminated, and without that happening, real attainment (union with The Divine, our true and essential nature) will not take place Meera Das, Ram Ram ----------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Thank you for the question. This question has been addressed often in Swamiji's daily messages, as well as, in Gita Talk discussions. Couple of the daily messages that pertains to your question is posted below. Please read very very carefully, and if there are any doubts, please ask again. Sadhak messages - Why are you Buying Poverty - sadhaka/message/2087 Please also read the recent Gita talk discussion on - Sustainance of Life is Independent on Effort and Possessions @ /message/3100 Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------------- Duties happen automatically and naturally on renunciation of Desires If a man has a particular desire, it is not a rule that this desire will always be satisfied. A desire may or may not be satiated. Till today all the desires of even a single individual have not been satiated, nor will they ever be satiated. If a desire is born, and if it is not fulfilled, it causes a lot of pain. But the condition of man is such that he continues to feel saddened by unfulfilled desires, simultaneously he continues to have new desires ! The outcome is that neither all his desires are fulfilled, nor does the pain andsorrow end. Therefore if a person wants to be rescued from pain, the remedy is Renunciation of Desires (Kaamanaa ka tyaag). In the scriptures it is written that in this human body, there is a predominance of action. Deep within himself, when a man, has the desire to acquire something, he is inclined to act. An action is of two kinds -"kartavya" (duty, i.e. what ought to be done) and "akartavya" (what ought not be done). Performance of action with a disinterested spirit (nishkaam bhava) i.e. FREE OF DESIRES, is "kartavya". Performance of action with interested spirit (with personal desires) is "Akartavya." - NOT DUTY. The root of Akartavya is desire for sensual pleasures that come from association. When desire for pleasure is wiped out, Akartavya does not happen. And when Akartavya does not happen, one automatically and by default observes "Kartavya", i.e DUTY is inevitably protected and fostered. Thespiritual discipline that happens naturally or automatically is real (authentic), whereas that spiritual discipline that is practiced intentionallywith effort is unreal (artificial). Ram Ram From "The Salvation of Mankind" in English by Swami Ramsukhdasji. ------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Three things are essential to get worldly things - desire, efforts and destiny. First you should have a desire to get / acquire a worldly thing, second, you should make an effort (do karma) to getthe same. And thirdly, even after making an effort and doing karma, you will get that thing, only if you are destined to get it. If you are not destined to get the thing then even after desiring and making efforts you will not get the same. Therefore many times we make an effort to gain a profit, but end up incurring losses! But God is realized merely by desiring. There is no need of any effort or destiny. In path of God realization there is never a loss, there is profit and profit only. Except God, merely by desiring we do not get any other thing. Reason is that the human body has been given to us only for God realization. God has given this human body to us, with the aim and objective of realizing Him. Secondly, God is everywhere. There is no space even the size of a needle point that is without God being there. Therefore in His realization, there is no role of effort and destiny.By doing Karma (efforts, deeds) we get only perishable things. Imperishable God cannot be realized by doing (karmas). He is realized solely by intense desire.From "Maanav Matra ke Kalyaan ke Liye" in Hindi, page 74-75 by SwamiRamsukhdasji Maharaj --------------Shree Hari ||Ram Ram 22nd December, 2009, Tuesday, Paush Shukla Shasthi Dependency is not liked by anyone. A dependent man does not gain happiness even in his sleep. "Paraadheen sapanehun sukhu naahi." (Manasa 1:102:3). Inspite of being so, then too man desires happiness from others, desires respect from others, desires praise from others, desires to gain from others - this is so very astonishing ! He who desires happiness from things, from individuals, from situations, from circumstances, from events, from various states / stages, from rest and relaxation, from gain, he has to become dependent. He cannot be saved whether he be Brahma or Indra or anyone for that matter. I say this to the extent that even Bhagwaan cannot be saved. He who desires something from anyone will definitely become dependent.He who desires Paramatma, he is not dependent; because Paramatma is not other. This Jeev (embodied soul) is very much an "ansh" (part of, ray of consciousness) of Paramatma, but on desiring anything other than Paramatma we become dependent; because besides Paramatma, nothing else is ours. It is only on having no desire for other things, that desire for Paramatma is awakened. If desire for other things does not remain, then Paramatma will be realized. When there is desire for anything, that desire validates a deficiency, a lack of something. In other words, unnecessarily at no cost, why are you buying paucity? If you desire to be happy, then do not desire happiness from anyone. Get rid of this thought completely from within - once and for all that "We will gain from another." Nothing can be done by anyone. He who desires something from another, can he be saved from dependency? Can he become independent? Therefore make this point firm - I will not desire anything from anyone! He who sees himself has reliant on that which is acuqired and later gets away(i.e. perishables), how can he be happy? The Self is not one that is created and destroyed (perishable). The Self is Imperishable. There is another very extraordinary point - He who desire something from another is non-deserving. He is not deserving at all. Just like, one who desires respect from another, he is not deserving of respect. He who is deserving of respect, does not desire respect. If you look into it, out of 18 Akshouni armies, in which all were Kshatriyas and Kshatriyas alone, and inspite of being a Kshatriya Himself, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna, became a charioteer leading Arjun's horses. Such an ordinary task he undertook, that can be mocked! Can driving the horses be valiant work? Is it the kind of work that commands any respect? But He was not ashamed of doing such work. He was deserving of respect therefore he had no desire for respect. Now how is one to know that He is deserving of respect? In the opposite army, Bhishmaji is the first one to blow the conch, and in this army, Bhagwaan Shri Krishna is the first to blow the conch. Because in the Kaurava army, the most important person was Bhishma and in the Pandava army the most important person was Shri Krishna. He who desires respect is a slave to respect and is not deserving of any respect. He who desires disciples, is a slave to disciples and is not a Guru. He who desires wealth is a slave to wealth, not a master of wealth. Therefore desires must be removed from the mind completely. From "Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu" in Hindi pg 714 by Swami RamsukhdasjiRam Ram For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org ===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only) 5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted. 7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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