ENLARGEMENT OF SCOPE OF GITA TALKS - Your Thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Reverend Sirs,Permit me first to present my 2010 greetings.As a person only very recently inducted into the Gita talks group, I particularly appreciate this summary (infra) of the topics discussed by you in 2009. Is it vain to hope that they may be enlarged in 2010 to a much wider discussion making place for arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists - bearing of course on subjects strictly relevant to your talks - but bringing to them the understanding acquired by the human race after the advent of the Gita? To be specific, will it be possible, for example, while keeping to the same courteous form of exchanging views, to ask for the discussion of arguments about the nature and existence of God expressed in books like "Religion without Revelation" by the Nobel Laureate Julian Huxley or of the "The Future of an Illusion" by Sigmund Freud. May I hope that you will specifically answer this question in your next message addressed to the entire group - and not just to me - to enable others also to express their views about the possibility and desirability of such an enlargement of the scope of the Gita-talks.Respectfully,Jasmer Singh_____

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to the question regarding enlargement of scope of Gita Talks. This is the Gita Talk Group. The primary aim is to understand (practice) the Holy Scripture,Bhagavad Gita and spread this divine wisdom to mankind. Any questions, and especially the answers must be in reference to Gitaji. This is how, we can improve our knowledge and understanding of our sacred Gitaji. The primary focus of this group is Gitaji, let us not deviate from that. Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Ya idam paramam guhyam,Mad bhaktsev abhidhasyatiBhaktim mayi param krtva,Mam evaisyaty asamsayah. "( Bhagavad Gita 18,68)Which means,'For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed and that person will come back to Me in the end. There is no doubt about that 'The very essence of this life is God Realization. The practice of Gitaji can us back to the abode of Supreme Personality of Godhead. Hence our discussions should be about the Lord. Thank You. Hare KrishnaPrasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

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-Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Sadhaks,Since the the Bhagavadgita deals with the total reality of all that is/ ever was/ever will be. The scope itself is of no limitations!The limitations are only within our minds!Sri Sathyanarayanji, has often opened up points from other sources , but in the context of Sanatan Dharma.Sadhak Jasmer Singh's arguments are sound, if one uses points from great philosophers, theologians, scientist etc. reflected on the mirror of the Gitaji, as the supreme authority, then how can we as group wonder off into a philosophical jungle? The Moderator is always there, to exercise guidance!As written by Brother Narottam, 'After all Sanatan Dharma is universal/eternal religion- applicable to entire man kind without any exceptions !! ' ; putting aside those driven by an ego agenda, thus those that search will indeed find their way home to The Beloved, all paths converging on the eternal truth! Some paths may be a bit bumpy!To show the universality of the deeper insights of other religions see this simple statement, made by a Christian monk (John Main): "In the words of a Sufi Poet:' I saw my Lord with my heart's eye and said; "Who art Thou Lord?" "Thyself," He replied,".Remember there are many seekers out there on their journey home, and have often read great wisdoms, when they are able to see the connection between the Sacred Gita and these great wisdoms they found on the road they have traveled for so long, then they will see the pure essence of the Gitaji! Om... Shanti...Mike. (K)

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While it looks tempting to human minds to discuss, win and loose arguments, enlarging the scope may dilute the very purpose and focus on the spiritual aspect of human beings. Often, human mind/intellect becomes the obstacle for spiritual growth. There are many other platforms for intellectual discussions and arguments, findings of scientists, etc. It is just a view......moderator of this group has to take the final call....

Sushil Jain

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Our primary pursuit is TRUTH which is timeless! Gita has expressed it beautifully, and that is why we look to Gita. It is never because it is Hindu's as Truth cannot be monopolized by any one, any nation or groups of people. Truth Holds us all, not the other way round. We can be only Its channels to broadcast!That is why we should be open enough to accommodate the relevant contemporary philosophies as suggested by Jasmer Singhji to enlarge the scope of discussions to look at whatever that will alleviate human suffering. It is going to serve Gita-talk platform and Swamiji's teaching even better!Truth is timeless, eternal, but not in the sense of being static. Its expressions are dynamic!Truth contained in the scriptures is still subject to interpretations by conditioned minds. It requires to be explained by Realized ones of the times using languages of people around them. Regarding the existence of God to be of any use in discussions, we should be ready to leave all sentimentality, all notions, beliefs, etc and see what IS God, rather than God exists or not according to scriptures we are familiar with. We may be surprised to know that to be Open is to be Realized! Openness of mind washes away individuality, the root cause of our divisions and therefore suffering!I welcome this suggestion by Jasmerji and openness and receptivity of Moderators....Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt---------------------------

Dear Sadaks,{May I request that Gita Talks be limited to Gitaji and the base of Gitaji alone. I am afraid that if you open it up to other views, relevance of Gitaji in those discussions will be lost.} said Sri Harish Sharma. Sadaks open any TOPIC, it can be prooved it is there in Getaji. It is very clearly said in Getaji about Gods, Demi Gods, religions and illusions. Nothing is left that man can find out. Why limit Getaji which is limitless. Need deep concentraded study of Getaji.Those good old by gone days, an acharya will NOT easily answer any question related to our Hindu Sastras. The student or disciple has to study again and again and find out answer for himself. Only in the event when the student fails in his attempt our days of study, the Guru come up with answer. Example are there many: But of now only one known to many. To learn the correct pronounciation and methods to say ""Om Namo Narayana"", Sri Ramanujar spent months with his Guru who was refusing to Upadesh the Astakshari Mantra. Dear Sadaks spend more time deeply in Geetha and you will find answer to any subject. Just sitting in front of Computor what to learn Hidden Gems and answers, by just asking questions or telling Moderator to limit views, will NOT broaden anybody knowledge.Hidden Gem Ex; Sant Durvasa was chased by Sri Vishnu Chakra for insulting Raja Angarish. Sant went to Bagavan Bhrama-then to Shiva then to Sri Vishnu and finally came back to Angarish to pardon him (Sant Durvasa). Sant is not ordinary person. He was super Human who can travel to Thirlokas. His knowledge and Mantras are abundant. Rare was Sant who can go to Lokas. He purposely acted like that to teach us a lesson that If a Baktha is insulted as to proove Bagavan Saying In GEETHA, "Name Baktha Pranashathi" Sant never cared If his name came in Purana as an insultant. We have to broaden our views in thinking ONLY possitively on Scripts and Sastras, then we will find a GEM of an answer. Pardon me If I was wrong anywhere. B.Sathyanarayan ----

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Please read only one topic "Description of the Undescribable" (Sadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu pg 58) . That whom no one has been able to know till today (has only been believed/accepted), That yo u want to know? Make an effort, and when ever you find out (not just repeating what has been through reading, writing or hearing, and to repeat it to others) then please share with us all, what is God, How is He. Where is He, and what is there anything else besides Him?

So be it

Vineet Sarvottam

 

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Dear Sadaks,A great scientist Edision (I think) said looking at a beautiful flower, "If I can understand you (Flower) than I can understand God". Another said, "Faith can move mountains". Another said, "I can understand galaxies and entire science, but I know that there is something (Power) behind all this". One can read Srimath Bagavatham which clearly gives insight about the whole creation, it`s function, how it works, when creation started and going to end. There is clarity about God's existence. One who doubts God existence it is natural that future is illusion. Great men and saints have said these. Can you see oxygen in water HO2, magnetism, electricity, milk in curd, Etc. But by knowledge of science and experiment we know. So also by Gynana only Geetha says one can know God. All have to understand, If God could be in form or religion, or formless, for man to discover like science discovery, then it becomes finite. Because all forms as seen in whole universe including galaxies, change and one day disappear. When GOD said He is Omnipresent, GOD is beyond everything that man can think off. So great saints contemplated on these changes and thought of eternity, source of all creation, abandoned everything on earth and sat in silence. Science says normally man uses only 10% brain. Then when one concentrates on single divine thinking, deep and deep, the brain usage increases to 50 to 70%. At this stage, he gets Astamaasidhi (8 Occult powers) super human power, ESP, the look of that person is enough to clean sufferings, the touch of that person is enough to cure disabilty ETC. But if one gets dismayed and thinks that he is powerful, the meer thought is enough to create ego leading to downfall to normal human level.B.Sathyanarayan

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methinks ......................too many other forums serve the Intellectual curiosity of the seekers of Knowledge ............

let this be the One to bring seekers of Wisdom to narrowing of their Intellect to the Pinpoint Laser....

which destroys the non-existent Darkness that eclipses the Light that embraces even the Darkness with joy and love ..........................

AUM

narinder bhandari

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Hari Om

Happy New Year to all sadhaks. I agree this year's compendium so painstakingly compiled by selfless GT Moderators is a treasure for all of us.

I think there is nothing wrong, as stated by Divine Moderators also, in the Group deliberating upon the various points of views and thereby proving the finality of eternal principles, theories, laws as explained by the Saints and Sages, Scriptures like Gitaji of Sanatan Dharma.After all Sanatan Dharma is universal/eternal religion- applicable to entire man kind without any exceptions !!

Argue whichever way you want, so long as query/topic is definite...Sadhaks of this Divine Forum should be able to address the same to any one's satisfaction. Certainly there should be a willingness to accept the truth from both sides. As a law- you can't make any one satisfied if he does not want to get satisfied.

In the reperttoire of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and of the Scriptures like Gita/Ramayana/ Yoga Vashishtha - there is no dearth or paucity of dealing with any subject or any path or any query or "understanding acquired by the human race after the advent of the Gita". In fact when recently a sadhak stated that goodness can prevail in non believers too, he was replied that to accomplish Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga of Gitaji even a thought about something known as God is not necessary. Sadhakhood /goodness is natural in a human being. His belief system is not materially relevant there. Such grand is the coverage area of the Saints of India and of Scriptures like Gita. Whoever you are, however you are, wherever you are- so long as you are a human being, our Scriptures have answers for you.

Welcome...so long as they meet with overall guidelines.

Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina

Narottam ------------------------

Namaste.

Best wishes for a joyous and successful New Year to all sadhaks and their loved ones.

As much as I discern a need for a forum for "arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists", I urge the hard-working Moderators to limit the content of to the current scope, and do not expand to include related or new content.

Gita-talk is a divine forum, it is the most extensive and informative forum for GITA; it is well-moderated; it serves as an illuminating oasis for GITA thoughts and opinions; it should remain that way. Remembr the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There are hundreds of thousands of forums to facilitate discussions on a variety of topics but there are only a precious few that are dedicated to GITA. Let us not dilute the content of ; let's keep the focus on GITA in .

If I may suggest: can we revisit or create new threads in that will handle the fundamental concepts of GITA? There are new members who may have missed the earlier threads, and even unaware of previous topics of discussion.

And, the Moderators, or others, can create a new forum for "arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists."

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath Caribbean-Hindus ----------One who realises the Truth will express in his own way, that is, with his background.There is nothing wrong in expressing through current terminology.We may call this as gita+ talk.Y V Chawla--------------Respected Sadhaks of Gita, Pranam:

May I request that Gita Talks be limited to Gitaji and the base of Gitaji alone. I am afraid that if you open it up to other views, relevance of Gitaji in those discussions will be lost.

My respectful Pranam to you all. Harish Sharma ==================================

Shree Hari Ram Ram

The group was primarily initiated for sadhaks having questions on Gitaji or on their Sadhana (spiritual practices), or on discourses of Swamiji, to bring forward via the group. Swamiji emphasized the importance of clearing all doubts to advance quickly spiritually. The group / forum has been serving that purpose so far.

The moderators are open and receptive to relevant findings / discussions based on all philosophers / scientists etc. as long as the responses are RELEVANT, BRIEF and demonstrate RESPECT for all.

Sadhaks, please kindly express your thoughts on scope (enlargement) of discussion in 2010 and beyond.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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LIST OF 2009 GITA TALK TOPICS WITH LINKS TO THE DETAILS

BHAGAVAD GITABhagavad Gita – Daily Verse - /message/3170Bhagavad Gita - Chapter - INTRODUCTION/message/2710Bhagavad Gita - Questions and Insights from Daily Verse/message/3026Gita - Who is the source of this great work of Hindus - Ancestors or God?/message/3127What is Geeta? What is the Meaning of Geeta?/message/3128Who Can Follow the Gita Principles?/message/3131On Gita's Suitability for Management Student s/message/2928GITA on Development and Social Change - Lessons/Teachings /message/2279Gita's Power on Turning Negative Thoughts Into Positive/message/3095Gita Study - Questions Asked by Arjuna and Responses by Lord Krishna with Ref./message/3098How Many Gita Verses to be Recited Daily; Hindi versus Sanskrit/message/3102Gita Essence / Excerpts / Insights/message/3114My Experience with Gita/message/3115GITAJI CHANGED MY LIFE / MY EXPERIENCE WITH GITA/message/3119Few Very Selected Gita Shlokas for Gita Jayanti day Compilation/message/3122ON GODDoes God (Paramatma) Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic? /message/2631Doubts about Existence of God ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAN / PARAMATMA ?/message/3002 Is God - Mother? Father ? Both? More? Where is it in Gita?/message/2951On Idol Worship and Many Gods and Goddesses - Why?/message/2966JNANA YOG (DISCIPINE OF KNOWLEDGE) Transition from Read-Learned Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge - /message/2218Conscience , It's Role, It's Awakening as per Gita /message/2081Is Samadhi a Necessary Condition for Moksha? /message/2390On Removing Mine-ness and Dissolving into IS-ness /message/2386Difference between Vratti and Sphurna per Gitaji - /message/2304 How to Let Go of I and I-ness ? /message/2261What is Maya? Where referred in Gita/Scriptures? /message/2482 On Vedanta, Seeking information for a Hindu Science Fiction Novel /message/2474 The Essence of Everything and Anything /message/2483 TAT TVAM ASI - Brief Exact Meaning/message/3076Equanimity and How It Can Lead to Emancipation? /message/2548 We Have Forgotten Who We Are? Your Thoughts? /message/2553 Yardstick to gauge Free from Egoism and Sense of Mine/message/2690Meaning and How to Attain - Mukti and Jeevan Mukti?/message/2693Effortless Attainment - Discipline of Actionlessness - (Karana Nirpeksh saadhan)/message/2687KARMA AND KARMA YOG (DISCIPINE OF KNOWLEDGE) Important Common factor in Karma, Gyana, Sanyas and Bakthi Marg – Share /message/2634 A Question about Karmic Debt /message/2652 Other's Rights and Our Duties - Your Insights/message/3184Becoming Free from Karma Bondage - Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership /message/2187IS Effort Necessary, when Everything Happens due to Praarabdh?/message/3142Is being Influenced by Preferences a Deviation from Karma Yoga? Please Guide/message/3001BHAKTI YOG (DISCIPLINE OF DEVOTION, LOVE) God Reciprocates the Sentiments of His Devotees Gita 4:11 – Share /message/2389Sharanagati - Taking Refuge - Surrendering to God, What are the 6 steps? /message/2507 DEPENDENCE ON AND REPOSE IN PARAMAATMAA AT ALL TIMES, HOW? /message/2610 Dependence - /message/2472 What More do we Need and Why do we Need More when we are GOD'S Only and Only God is Ours? /message/2505 How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for Attaining Salvation? /message/2525 IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WITH INTENSE LONGING FOR BHAGWAAN ? /message/2526 Your Thoughts on Vishwaas/message/3087Guide Me in Accepting By Self that I am only God's and Only God is Mine/message/2870Leave All Fears. Become Fearless - HOW?/message/2882What is meant by PREM? Help me articulate !/message/2807From All Belongs to God to Everything is God/message/2810Why the Lack of Constancy? Why Not Firm and Implicit Trust in His Ordinance?/message/2855Devotional Love and It's Fruits - Please Elaborate/message/2761How do we know we have taken sharanagati ? Your thoughts !/message/3104On beholding (having darshan of) Bhagwaan/message/3124How to Assure Last Thoughts at Time of Death are Only of God ?/message/2866Leave the World and Own the Lord, Please share your thoughts !/message/3036Thoughts on Seeing God's Grace in Both Favorable and Unfavorable Situations/message/2961FOR HOUSEHOLDERS Advice on Dealing with Dishonesty and In-Law Relations /message/2082How to Deal with Disobedient Children? Why so much Pain given to Parents? /message/2117 Advice Sought for Troubled Marriage /message/2360Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man ? /message/2310Help me say Good bye /message/2341 Duties of a Family Man, Householder - Please Enlighten Me? /message/2242 What are the Duties of a Householder - Head of the Family towards the Family? /message/2407 Advice to one who is Devastated from Recent Loss of Father - /message/2189How to Advance Spiritually and Live in Harmony when Spouse has Worldly Interests? /message/2499 Is Spirituality Only Possible after Basic Needs are Met? /message/2215 Guidance to the Mentally Exhausted and Very Stressed/message/2516When is Accepting Abuse Inappropriate? /message/2547 Harm Caused by Arguing and Criticizing/message/2861How to emotionally deal with Children Blaming me for Divorce ?/message/2696How to Deal with Grandchildren's Attachment?/message/2848What about Wife Beating Her Husband?/message/3061Unable to Forgive for a Mistake, Please Help!!!/message/2889Why there appears to be No Justice? How long to continue with this struggle?/message/3043How to Overcome Fear of Suffering and Needing Comfort? /message/2366Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?/message/2763A Question About the Significance of Dreams of a Departed Soul/message/3147Seeking Direction In Life; Fiance Unable to Forgive Me for My Past Mistakes/message/2997Lord Ramachandra and Srimati Sita Devi/message/3033Please Help Me to regain my confidence again !/message/3072Sadhak and Dependence On Money - Share your Thoughts/message/2919Advice to One being Rejected due to KUNDALI - /message/2210USEFUL FOR SADHAKSSuccess of Human Life - What are Common among the Three Paths? /message/2397 Why is it so difficult to actualise the message of the Bhagvad Geeta ?/message/2759Definite Means for Salvation - Insights / Doubts / Agree / Disagree/message/2784What is Forbidden Food? Please Enlighten? /message/2427 Why be Vegetarian ? After All Plants Also Have Life ?/message/2834Why should one be a Vegetarian ? Does Gita say not to Eat Meat? /message/2527Without Desires Nothing will be Attained/message/3183How to keep this body healthy so that I can remain focused on God?/message/3188How to overcome the sexual thoughts (KAMA)?/message/2645Is the Mind alone the cause of man's bondage?/message/3013Relevant Gita Shlokas Pertaining to Death/message/3020Man of Steady Wisdom - Your Thoughts ......../message/3022How to control anger, anxiety ? when things are not in our control?/message/3024Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?/message/2733Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya), and Means (Saadhan) /message/2732Daily Practice? Japa? Meditation? for Sadhak per Swamiji/message/2686I Want to Only Walk This Path, Any Issues You Have with This Message?/message/2753Are Some Paths More Direct? How to Get Past Dogmas towards Common Ground?/message/2758Sins (Paap) and Virtues (Punya), Please Clairfy, Please Elaborate /message/2457 The THREE Essentials /message/2469 Important Common factor in Karma, Gyana, Sanyas and Bakthi Marg – Share/message/2634What is the meaning of PURITY? Is Ganga Snaan going to give one purity ?/message/2659What did Bhagavan say to Arjuna ? What is Holding Us Back from Realization? /message/2221 What is the Difference Between God's Grace and Saint's Grace?/message/2925Suggestions on being Free of Modes of Nature (Gunatit) per Gitaji/message/2804What is Left After Becoming a Yogi ? /message/2530 On Association with Truth and Holy Company – SATSANG /message/2592 What is the meaning of PURITY? Is Ganga Snaan going to give one purity ? /message/2659 Easy Means of Renouncing this Affinity for the World - Meaning / Practice /message/2671 On Readiness ! Are You Ready? Your Thoughts? /message/2678Paramatma - Stays, Accompanies or Exits from Jiva at Liberation? /message/2684 Peace and it's Attainment through Non-Doing / Non-Doership - Clarification ?/message/2918Can we attain Enlightenment through, Karma/Jnana or combination?/message/2945Effects of Satsang on a Few and Not Others - What is the reason?/message/2947Whose Mantra Should I Chant? I am Confused/message/3078Yardstick for Spiritual Progress /message/2351Meaning of Beej Mantra & Mool Mantra /message/2338 Satsang Well and Good, But What about Cause Effect of Contemporary Issues? /message/2255 Science and Spirituality - Identification of Concepts /message/2241 How is Sin Defined? Who Defines? Do Animals Sin? /message/3081Ultimately What is it that Man Really Wants?/message/3085CURSE - Gita's Views with any Fact / Proven Incident Details /message/2183 What is Gitaji's Explanation for Ruthless Crimes with no known Consequences/message/2811Appropriate Mantras to say at Death of a Loved One/message/2863Seeking Guidance regarding Guru and Initiation/message/2865Saadhan (Spiritual Discipline) Please Enlighten !/message/2909Can a Woman Make Someone a Guru?/message/2912On Facing of Death Gracefully /message/2529 FOR A BETTER WORLDHow to Best Promote Non-Violence?/message/3151Global Warming... Any Answers in Gitaji?/message/3153What should be Our Attitude towards Birds, Animals and Other Creatures ?/message/3167Please Share your Thoughts on Mother Earth and Any Reference in Gita/message/3126How to Develop / Transform Communities and Societies per Gitaji/message/3048May All Be Happy! May No One Experience Any Suffering... Please Explain ! /message/2541 ON SWAMIJIREMEMBERING ONE OF THE GREATEST SAINTS WHO WALKED ON THIS PLANET/message/2837Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and J. Krishnamurti - strikingly similarity /message/2354Request to Know about Swamiji's Telecast on Sanskar TV/message/3174ALL OTHERSYear 2009 - Year of Change. Can Gita Help in Change Management? Adaptation? /message/2402 Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism /message/1996Isn't It Strange ! /message/2362Priceless Insight - Please Share Reflections / Experiences/message/2859Please Share Your Experience on Turning Negative to Positive/message/2878Sharing Our Daily Experience of Life/message/2904Is Engagment in Divine Play, Dreaming in the Waking State?/message/2913How will Mentally Disabled Person Achieve their Goal?/message/3143Regarding Holy Spirit and It's Attainment/message/3168 Gita-Talk Improvement Opportunities - PLEASE SHARE/message/2778 From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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[Guest guest]

Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Revered Sadhaks, THANK YOU ALL for sharing your insightful thoughts regarding the scope of Gita-Talks forum. Revisiting the history and reason why this group was initiated and carefully reading through all your feedback (highlighting in RED all the points that we considered), for now let us continue AS-IS to stay aligned with the original intent of the group, i.e. as suggested by Sadhak - If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Having said this.... Truth and Gitaji being Timeless, Eternal, infinite, unlimited, unbounded, shoreless, and as Swamiji says, Gitaji continues to reveal new mysteries, secrets, meanings, therefore how can we ever limit the scope as such? Let us be open (within reason i.e. without diluting Gita-Talk) to hear quotes or wisdom from other traditions / observations / sources or raising questions / doubts (i.e. Gita + Talk) to help see the connections (as we have been doing so far), while keeping Gitaji at the center (i.e. through the Divine lense "the Golden Thread" of Gitaji) , so long as it meets with overall guidelines. And if we find this to be taking us away from laser point, then we can revisit again and re-focus. Also... "Yes" to all your suggestions... we will work on 1) Incorporating... (reference to Gita verse with your help, 2) Creating new threads in that will handle the fundamental concepts of GITA, with your help 3) Creating list of all Gita-Talk discussion Topics to date (for benefit of sadhaks who have recently joined the forum) and anything else that we may have overlooked. Lastly, it is highly recommended for all to re-read this thread, as it reveals through each sadhak, the divine work of God. Thank you all. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------Shree Hari-

Maybe I did not get my point across, how many to ?

There is a silent legion out there, make no mistake about that, many of

these souls are looking for answers, they maybe be confused, why not let

them quote some wisdom from another source. One who has knowledge of,

and faith in Bhagavadgita, surely he/she can guide a soul home by this

most profound of sacred works, where does the fear come from?

Example:

Bible (referring to the two criminals executed along with Jesus; as they

were hanging there one mocked him, but the other said this:

"...And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due rewards for our

deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong". And he said, "Jesus

remember me when you come to your kingly power" And he(Jesus) said to

him., "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise".

Juxtaposed to this:

When a man dies during the predominance of Sattva (guna), he obtains

the pure worlds attained by men of noble deeds. (Bhagavadgita 14:14).

And the realization of Irina Tweedie, (A sufi), "....my long walks in

the sal forest around the hills, my heart so full of the words of

Krishna in the Bhagava Gita:"I am the fragrance of the earth, I am the

brilliance of the fire", etc ringing in my mind."I find it amazing that Sadhaks think some kind of pollution will occur

when there is a golden thread running through so many traditions and

observations, that golden thread is the Sanatan Dharma, and in Gitaji

there is that 'Golden Thread' for all to observe, not hidden behind

dogma, and superstition! Om... Shanti... Mike. (K)------Reverend Sirs,Permit me first to present my 2010 greetings.As a person only very recently inducted into the Gita talks group, I particularly appreciate this summary (infra) of the topics discussed by you in 2009. Is it vain to hope that they may be enlarged in 2010 to a much wider discussion making place for arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists - bearing of course on subjects strictly relevant to your talks - but bringing to them the understanding acquired by the human race after the advent of the Gita? To be specific, will it be possible, for example, while keeping to the same courteous form of exchanging views, to ask for the discussion of arguments about the nature and existence of God expressed in books like "Religion without Revelation" by the Nobel Laureate Julian Huxley or of the "The Future of an Illusion" by Sigmund Freud. May I hope that you will specifically answer this question in your next message addressed to the entire group - and not just to me - to enable others also to express their views about the possibility and desirability of such an enlargement of the scope of the Gita-talks.Respectfully,Jasmer Singh_____hi all the gita itself has all the things one wants so asking for enlargement of scope means that one has not quite understood what bhagwan krishna talked to arjun in kurushestraDHARMA AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ---BORDERLESSwhat it means is that this group should double up their energy and passion and make it even more simpler to get the deep and the deepest maenings of what was said by lord krishnai like the following answer 1 "Knowing this (i.e. the knowledge imparted by BhagavaanJi in GitaJi), nothing will be left unknown" (YAJGYAATVAA NEHA BHOOYONYAT GYAATAVYAM AVASHISHYATE -GitaJi-7/2). In other words, the wisdom contained in GitaJi is self sufficient and nothing extra or "+" is needed for a truth seeker following GitaJi. The paths and wisdom prescribed in GitaJi are not new (GitaJi-3/3; 4/1; 4/32; 13/4); they are well followed and proven in past by many aspirants (Gitaji-3/20; 4/10; 4/15). 2 Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Ya idam paramam guhyam,Mad bhaktsev abhidhasyatiBhaktim mayi param krtva,Mam evaisyaty asamsayah. "( Bhagavad Gita 18,68)Which means,'For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed and that person will come back to Me in the end. There is no doubt about that 'The very essence of this life is God Realization. The practice of Gitaji can us back to the abode of Supreme Personality of Godhead. Hence our discussions should be about the Lord. thanks dinesh patel- Hari OmI can see sound reasonings behind what Madanji Kaura, Bisnauthji, Neetishji and all others have stated. But then we all are unanimous on one thing: The Holy Gita's reach is wide enough to encompass everything under the Sun. Swamiji once stated that the intellect of a person who does svaadhyaay (study) of Gitaji can enter any subject. When I said ..'Welcome'..believe me, I had in mind that statement of Swamiji Maharaj and the area Gitaji is capable of covering.Sure- it then becomes the duty of all of us to put the Q first UNDER an "appropriate verse" of Gitaji and address the same under the sphere/lens of that verse only. If the Q is funny/tricky enough not to get into overall guidelines/focus ( say why in Maths 1+1 is 2 ? ) ...or is such which disregards the very fundamentals of Gitaji ( Say I don't believe that soul is distinct from body and presuming that ....) and wants us to build on that disregard ..it must be rejected. But so long as the Q is getting related with sphere of Gitaji (God ! It is infinite !!) and is seeking understanding of Gitaji...it should be welcomed. We should not worry excessively of getting diverted unless the Q at the outset itself disregards the fundamentals of Gitaji and none of us is able to co-relate it with a verse of Gitaji.To my mind, with due respects to all, ... are we distinguishing between overall Sanatan Dharma teachings and Gita teachings? If that is so, then also let me tell that Gitaji is 'nectar' (juice, summary,substance- 'arka') of entire Sanatan Dharma ...lock, stock and barrel...except perhaps 'rituals, customs, and particular societal, community, varna, ashrama norms' - Karma Kaanda of Vedas ... (say 'Sati' type prathas, Mirabaai vs Madri, untouchability, strict varna/ashrama norms, shraddha pratha, burning the corpse vs burying it, very strict distinctions say between a Brahmin and a Shudra, what technically a sadhu should or should not do etc etc) ! I fully agree that such rituals, customs, norms, precedences, ways, prathas are outside the purview of Holy Gita but are in say Smritis and Puranas of Sanatan Dharma. Except that Gita is representative of entire Sanatan Dharma- lock, stock and barrel. Basically, in long run, a Q may, at the most, arise as to what is covered by 'Scriptures'... BG 16:24- tasmaat shastram pramaanam te karya..... ! We will deal with that if such a Q arises.Hence on the aforesaid grounds, I wholeheartedly agree with Madanji Kaura and all other sadhaks that let us restrict our discussions to Gitaji and those areas of Sanatan Dharma which are in overall conscised sphere as outlined/grasped in Gitaji by Lord Krishna Himself. Whatever Lord Krishna left behind.. ( Example- Ref Chapter 2: 42 to 46/ 49 re the flowery language of Vedas- sakaam karma- karmas made with results in focus..karma kaanda of Vedas ) ... We too should leave behind. But if the above INCLUDES what Sadhak Jasmersinghji desires...so be it...how can we avoid it ? And hence, I revise my opinion.... CERTAINLY...Gitaji MUST be the focal point of discussions. Yardstick ? The Q must get co-related with a VERSE of Gitaji - if not by Questioner than ... by Moderators... any responding Sadhak. And of course brevity, relevance, and decorum.Pranaams to all Sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu SukhinahNarottam ------------------------------ Jasmet Singh-ji's suggestion is indeed a good one. If one needs to convinced about the the science and philosophy of Gita, one needs to understand whar Gita says but also what later philosophers and scientists have said later in contradiction with Gita. However, this cannot be done by discussing some personalties like Huxley and Freud. Any person in the Forum can ask specific question that arises in his mind about contradiction between Gita and books written later by scientist and philosophers. In fact even in 2009, many questions have been asked that reflects doubts in the minds of the quiestioneer about the concepts and teachings of Gita. Such questions have in a sense raised basic doubts about the real base of Gita. And, we have participated in the discussion. Most responses to such questions has been to convince the questioneer that Gita has an answer to clear such doubts. We should continue that practice.Important thing is to remember that no scientists or philosopher has been able to provide a solid critique of Gita. Huxley and Freud and similar persons' behavior and views can be easily shown to be as irrelevant if one has understood what Gita is all about. Gita is so simple and scientific, both theoretically and in practical application, that all possible criticisms of Gita can be answered in the most scientific manner.The principal points of Gita (and Upanishads) is that real salvation comes through the realisation that (a) God is everywhere and everything including nothing exists in God only, (b) this realization cannot be achieved through the normal senses, mind, thoughts and ego of human beings have (scientists have already proved the limitations of human senses: for example. there many things that exists in the Universe which the bare eyes cannot see directly or even with the help of most advanced technological marvel instruments like telescopes mounted on the sattelties or space voyagers - same thing about hearing sounds), © the realisation can come through meditation and practice of yogic methods that makes the mind become still senses no longer work to satisfy any desire whatsoever: it gets revealed in the dreamless sleep to something called the Self,(d) once the realization takes place, a human being is filled with unendiong, limitless joy without ego and desire, (e) In such a realized state, a human being becomes one with the entire Universe or Creation and therefore with the Creator or God.God is therefore essentially the Self that has realized the Truth embodied in the above main points. And, Gita also says that the probabilty of such a state of realization is very, very close to zero.As one progresses along the path to achieve this realization, one may get a few glimpses of the Truth. But that is progress only and not reaching Salvation. The humsn body consists of both the Gross physical body and the Finer, invisible bodies that are imparted with certain properties or Gunas. The Self is also part of the human body. When the Self part of the body is no more hidden by the Gross physical and the Finer part of the body, the Self itself realizes that the Self is the indestructible, non-splittable, infinite Creation and the Creature. The above scientific theory is so simple to understand but difficult / almost impossible to realize.Even if one understands the theory, one can easily see that no scientists or philosopher can really put any valid scientific criticism of this theory. A disbeilver in the Gita's theory - whether scientis or philosopher, has no comprehensive explanation or theory of the Creation and the Creator. So, I see no difficulty in disposing any question on the base of Gita so that a rational person can understand Gita's main idea. Gita has answers to all possible and impossible critical questioning of Gita. Basudeb Sen---------------- Jai HanumanI agree with Madanji Kaura.I have a simple solution. Can we with the caption of Q itself add reference of one or more Gita Verse or 'General- to be classified' ? Let Questioner himself do that ...failing her/him let Moderators themselves do that ( and classifying the Q)... Failing them too (Gita reference to be given by any Sadhak- after "General category" classification by Moderators ) .. let any responding sadhak do that .. Or immediately after posting a call be first taken to decide particular relevant verse(s) and then proceed. Yardsick?.... Ultimately the Q after its caption MUST have reference of say "BG .. 2:47 or 6:24" etc etc.Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala-----------------methinks , ..........................................( even though the 'me' does not exist .............. only HE is !!) methinks... blessed is this Forum .................................... so many 'me s' express the truth they feel in their being ... so beautifully, so lovingly....................... adding to the Joy that Truth is ................. the expression is beauteous............ the questions are a Light ............... leading to answers that too add to the Light ............. blessed are the sadhaks , blessed the Moderators ........................ Chawla jee brings to Light ............... that Truth , verily, is the Light , the Light is the Truth ........... names matter not, nor words ............. One who realises the Truth will express in his own way, that is, with his background. There is nothing wrong in expressing through current terminology. We may call this as gita+ talk. Y V Chawla ------------ --------- ...................... all thoughts that lead the focus us inwards ( We can give them the name "Geetha" ............... for Bhagvada geetha indeed is the quintessence of such wisdom ) ............. are acceptable for sharing ............... thoughts and expression that may lead the focus unto the outer World of Knowledge may not be suited in this Forum only the understanding of Truth is the essence ............ understanding that happens, when it happens ........ Grace ............................. and methinks ..................... all this is already adequately happening in this Forum .................. what Joy !!!! and, as expressed by Partap Bhatt jee ................. narinder proposes a vote of thanks to the Moderators ............ AUM narinder bhandari-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari|| Ram Ram ||Thanks to moderators for putting together the overview of topics from last year. I fully agree with suggestions made by Mr. D. Bisnath and Mr. Iragavarap, to keep the focus of this forum to Gitaji only, of course with references as needed to other scriptures such as Ramayana, Srimad Bhagavtam, Yoga Visishta etc. Believe this would be keeping in-line with the original intent and inspiration of revered Swamiji Maharaj. Gitaji is a complete scripture, covering whole arena of topics relating to welfare of human being in this world. Coupled with the enormous work done by Swamiji Maharaj on Gitaji, makes it a vast invaluable treasure house, providing the Sadhkas more than sufficient material to understand and march on a journey to attain the only goal of life - uniting with the supreme. In my humble opinion, opening the dialogue to other topics on this forum is not necessary since there are many other forums dealing with those subjects. || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--Jai Shri Hari,My only suggestion is to not change the focus/purpose of this forum which I guess is "to help its members to learn GitaJi in handling the worldly problems and simplifying their journey towards the supreme goal". BhagavaanJi says "Knowing this (i.e. the knowledge imparted by BhagavaanJi in GitaJi), nothing will be left unknown" (YAJGYAATVAA NEHA BHOOYONYAT GYAATAVYAM AVASHISHYATE -GitaJi-7/2). In other words, the wisdom contained in GitaJi is self sufficient and nothing extra or "+" is needed for a truth seeker following GitaJi. The paths and wisdom prescribed in GitaJi are not new (GitaJi-3/3; 4/1; 4/32; 13/4); they are well followed and proven in past by many aspirants (Gitaji-3/20; 4/10; 4/15).Yes! if some one wants to understand some other thoughts/philosophies, he/she can see through the divine lens of GitaJi. In my understanding, the way all the rivers finally merge into the ocean, the core threads of all the various philosophies capable to lead towards the TRUTH merge into GitaJi. Before understanding any other philosophy and seeing through the divine lens of GitaJi, my suggestion will be to first understand GitaJi thoroughly otherwise only the waste of our precious time will come in hand.May God bless us !Niteesh DubeyNamasteAnother factor to consider is the larger volume of messages, and consequently the longer time required by sadhaks to assimilate the content. There is a point of diminishing returns with online groups - if there are too many messages, the readers ignore them, delete without reading the messages, and soon they may if flooded to too many messages and they are unable to manage their inbox. In such a case, the group quickly deteriorates into a forum for a few contributors with very little interaction from others.I humbly reiterate my previous suggestion that forum should focus on GITA. However, if there is an audience and a demand, then another group can be created for any new subject matter.Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath----Dear Shree Sri Singh,I am not very keen on Freud (in facr I have the habit spelling his name asFraud). Julius Huxley is different. But I have a different thought. As we weredriving along a steep mountain road, my student's daughter, a PG medical studentspecializing in psychology with adjustment problems with her chosen husband,suddenly asked me, "Uncle do you believe in God?" I was not driving thetreacherously curved path. So I could pay full attention to answer her question.I said, "Before you believe or not God, you must have the correct definition orconcept of God. One can live on without the concept of God and even with theconcept but unmindful of God. We are driving on this dangerous road. You see thehard and black rocky hill on one side and deep valley of thousand + feet on theother side. Suppose it is adark night, rain battering the windshield blindingyou and squally pushing you in different directions. You cant see the rockyhillside, nor can you see the deep bottomless gorge. For an extremely skillfuldriver, very well acquainted with the road, who knows where the bend is howsharp it is etc, there wont be aNY PROBLEM; he reaches the summit safely.If you are not that expert and you do not know the road well, then you need afew protections. You would wish there was a railing along the valley side whichis painted in flourecent white to tell you where road shoulder ends and equallyflourocent white paint on the rock side so that you can move away from crashinginto the rock.Mind you, these are not necessary for the expert. But most of us are not expertsin driving thru LIFE, the hilliest of all roads. So we need the railing andwhite paint to keep ourselves on the road. God is like the railing and Paint. Mychild, that is how I believe in God. Having used the railing and paint, the bestyou can do as a duty is not to write love messages in black on the white paint onthe rock side and not break the railing. Help a fellow traveler to find the wayby keeping the paint and railing as cleanly visible to others as it was to you.Do not distort or disfigure them. That is Bhakti. If you do not stick to thisbasic principle, everthing else you do to get the nod of God is Bakwaas ornonsense," I concluded.Bhagavad Gita is the best book in the world, since it teaches this and thisalone. Krishna's message is beyond the caste divisions, superstitions about PitrKarma etc,he throws out the concept of abstention from allresponsibilities as a path to the sumkit. Bhagavad Gita is not a book ofReligion. It is a book of Dharma. And Dharma can be athiestic or unconcernedabout the concept of God as the one in Temples, synagogues and churches.Enlarging the scope of Gita is redundant as from what I said just now, it is notbound by religion or region or time. It is universal and eternal. What we needis to enlarge the horizons of our grasp. The more you study, the wider yourhorizon or region of appreciation would be. With this mind I set forth writingan exegesis on Gita and named it "An all time working manual of living". I usedideas from The Old and New Testaments and teachings of Jesus to show that theyhave originated from Gita. I wrote two more books I named them Coptic GitaVolume 1 and 2. They are Gospels of Mary Magdalene and of Thomas. Having writtenthem, I am satisfied that I am on the right way to understand Gita in its trueand proper perspective. Why should I care, whe the LOrd is driving me?krishna samudrala-Dear Sadaks,As said by Sri Mikeji, that I open points from other sources is well understood by him. An ex: In Geetha "Pattram, Palam, Thooyam---" said. But to understand in deapth and have fixed in our mind the importance of that Sloka, we have to take threads from, 1) Ramayan: Sant Sabari offering bitten fruits to Sri Rama. 2) Vithur offering Plantain skins instead of fruit to Sri Krishna 3) Dathibanda offering a leaf and prayer to Child Sri Krishna. In all these cases what said in Geetha if pondered over, it reveals love, (Said again In geetha as Niskama Prema Bakthi) NOT the material offered. Sabari wanted Sri Rama to eat tasty fruits. When these are remembered in histories of divine sants, then we are differant. As for me from this what said, I practice certain method. When I offer fruits, may be apple, I cut and see the quality. Many of you could have seen slightly turned brounish apple which I discard. Grapes: Pluck each and see the damages if any in each grape. You will notice in bunch one can see damages. Pomagranite: Still worst, on cutting you will find the red grains are rotten in a portion of the fruit. I HAVE PASSED ON THIS MESSAGE SO THAT ALL SADAKS CAN DO THE SAME AND REMEMBER THE SLOKA.B.Sathyanarayan ----Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!I just want to appreciate the efforts put in by our dear Moderator(s). Their relentless dedication to serve us by sharing the wisdom of Gita and Swamiji cannot go unnoticed. It is not an easy task to manage information data base and to shape it to make into wisdom platform and to ensure all of us remain in sync. Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt-------Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to the question regarding enlargement of scope of Gita Talks. This is the Gita Talk Group. The primary aim is to understand (practice) the Holy Scripture,Bhagavad Gita and spread this divine wisdom to mankind. Any questions, and especially the answers must be in reference to Gitaji. This is how, we can improve our knowledge and understanding of our sacred Gitaji. The primary focus of this group is Gitaji, let us not deviate from that. Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Ya idam paramam guhyam,Mad bhaktsev abhidhasyatiBhaktim mayi param krtva,Mam evaisyaty asamsayah. "( Bhagavad Gita 18,68)Which means,'For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed and that person will come back to Me in the end. There is no doubt about that 'The very essence of this life is God Realization. The practice of Gitaji can us back to the abode of Supreme Personality of Godhead. Hence our discussions should be about the Lord.Thank You. Hare KrishnaPrasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D------Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Sadhaks,Since the the Bhagavadgita deals with the total reality of all that is/ ever was/ever will be. The scope itself is of no limitations!The limitations are only within our minds!Sri Sathyanarayanji, has often opened up points from other sources , but in the context of Sanatan Dharma.Sadhak Jasmer Singh's arguments are sound, if one uses points from great philosophers, theologians, scientist etc. reflected on the mirror of the Gitaji, as the supreme authority, then how can we as group wonder off into a philosophical jungle? The Moderator is always there, to exercise guidance!As written by Brother Narottam, 'After all Sanatan Dharma is universal/eternal religion- applicable to entire man kind without any exceptions !! ' ; putting aside those driven by an ego agenda, thus those that search will indeed find their way home to The Beloved, all paths converging on the eternal truth! Some paths may be a bit bumpy!To show the universality of the deeper insights of other religions see this simple statement, made by a Christian monk (John Main): "In the words of a Sufi Poet:' I saw my Lord with my heart's eye and said; "Who art Thou Lord?" "Thyself," He replied,".Remember there are many seekers out there on their journey home, and have often read great wisdoms, when they are able to see the connection between the Sacred Gita and these great wisdoms they found on the road they have traveled for so long, then they will see the pure essence of the Gitaji! Om... Shanti...Mike. (K)-----------------------While it looks tempting to human minds to discuss, win and loose arguments, enlarging the scope may dilute the very purpose and focus on the spiritual aspect of human beings. Often, human mind/intellect becomes the obstacle for spiritual growth. There are many other platforms for intellectual discussions and arguments, findings of scientists, etc. It is just a view......moderator of this group has to take the final call....Sushil Jain-------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Our primary pursuit is TRUTH which is timeless! Gita has expressed it beautifully, and that is why we look to Gita. It is never because it is Hindu's as Truth cannot be monopolized by any one, any nation or groups of people. Truth Holds us all, not the other way round. We can be only Its channels to broadcast!That is why we should be open enough to accommodate the relevant contemporary philosophies as suggested by Jasmer Singhji to enlarge the scope of discussions to look at whatever that will alleviate human suffering. It is going to serve Gita-talk platform and Swamiji's teaching even better!Truth is timeless, eternal, but not in the sense of being static. Its expressions are dynamic!Truth contained in the scriptures is still subject to interpretations by conditioned minds. It requires to be explained by Realized ones of the times using languages of people around them. Regarding the existence of God to be of any use in discussions, we should be ready to leave all sentimentality, all notions, beliefs, etc and see what IS God, rather than God exists or not according to scriptures we are familiar with. We may be surprised to know that to be Open is to be Realized! Openness of mind washes away individuality, the root cause of our divisions and therefore suffering!I welcome this suggestion by Jasmerji and openness and receptivity of Moderators....Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt---------------------------Dear Sadaks,{May I request that Gita Talks be limited to Gitaji and the base of Gitaji alone. I am afraid that if you open it up to other views, relevance of Gitaji in those discussions will be lost.} said Sri Harish Sharma. Sadaks open any TOPIC, it can be prooved it is there in Getaji. It is very clearly said in Getaji about Gods, Demi Gods, religions and illusions. Nothing is left that man can find out. Why limit Getaji which is limitless. Need deep concentraded study of Getaji.Those good old by gone days, an acharya will NOT easily answer any question related to our Hindu Sastras. The student or disciple has to study again and again and find out answer for himself. Only in the event when the student fails in his attempt our days of study, the Guru come up with answer. Example are there many: But of now only one known to many. To learn the correct pronounciation and methods to say ""Om Namo Narayana"", Sri Ramanujar spent months with his Guru who was refusing to Upadesh the Astakshari Mantra. Dear Sadaks spend more time deeply in Geetha and you will find answer to any subject. Just sitting in front of Computor what to learn Hidden Gems and answers, by just asking questions or telling Moderator to limit views, will NOT broaden anybody knowledge.Hidden Gem Ex; Sant Durvasa was chased by Sri Vishnu Chakra for insulting Raja Angarish. Sant went to Bagavan Bhrama-then to Shiva then to Sri Vishnu and finally came back to Angarish to pardon him (Sant Durvasa). Sant is not ordinary person. He was super Human who can travel to Thirlokas. His knowledge and Mantras are abundant. Rare was Sant who can go to Lokas. He purposely acted like that to teach us a lesson that If a Baktha is insulted as to proove Bagavan Saying In GEETHA, "Name Baktha Pranashathi" Sant never cared If his name came in Purana as an insultant. We have to broaden our views in thinking ONLY possitively on Scripts and Sastras, then we will find a GEM of an answer. Pardon me If I was wrong anywhere. B.Sathyanarayan ----Shree HariRam RamPlease read only one topic "Description of the Undescribable" (Sadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu pg 58) . That whom no one has been able to know till today (has only been believed/accepted), That yo u want to know? Make an effort, and when ever you find out (not just repeating what has been through reading, writing or hearing, and to repeat it to others) then please share with us all, what is God, How is He. Where is He, and what is there anything else besides Him? So be itVineet Sarvottam ------------------------ Dear Sadaks,A great scientist Edision (I think) said looking at a beautiful flower, "If I can understand you (Flower) than I can understand God". Another said, "Faith can move mountains". Another said, "I can understand galaxies and entire science, but I know that there is something (Power) behind all this". One can read Srimath Bagavatham which clearly gives insight about the whole creation, it`s function, how it works, when creation started and going to end. There is clarity about God's existence. One who doubts God existence it is natural that future is illusion. Great men and saints have said these. Can you see oxygen in water HO2, magnetism, electricity, milk in curd, Etc. But by knowledge of science and experiment we know. So also by Gynana only Geetha says one can know God. All have to understand, If God could be in form or religion, or formless, for man to discover like science discovery, then it becomes finite. Because all forms as seen in whole universe including galaxies, change and one day disappear. When GOD said He is Omnipresent, GOD is beyond everything that man can think off. So great saints contemplated on these changes and thought of eternity, source of all creation, abandoned everything on earth and sat in silence. Science says normally man uses only 10% brain. Then when one concentrates on single divine thinking, deep and deep, the brain usage increases to 50 to 70%. At this stage, he gets Astamaasidhi (8 Occult powers) super human power, ESP, the look of that person is enough to clean sufferings, the touch of that person is enough to cure disabilty ETC. But if one gets dismayed and thinks that he is powerful, the meer thought is enough to create ego leading to downfall to normal human level.B.Sathyanarayan------------------------methinks ......................too many other forums serve the Intellectual curiosity of the seekers of Knowledge ............let this be the One to bring seekers of Wisdom to narrowing of their Intellect to the Pinpoint Laser....which destroys the non-existent Darkness that eclipses the Light that embraces even the Darkness with joy and love ..........................AUM narinder bhandari--------------------------Hari OmHappy New Year to all sadhaks. I agree this year's compendium so painstakingly compiled by selfless GT Moderators is a treasure for all of us.I think there is nothing wrong, as stated by Divine Moderators also, in the Group deliberating upon the various points of views and thereby proving the finality of eternal principles, theories, laws as explained by the Saints and Sages, Scriptures like Gitaji of Sanatan Dharma.After all Sanatan Dharma is universal/eternal religion- applicable to entire man kind without any exceptions !!Argue whichever way you want, so long as query/topic is definite...Sadhaks of this Divine Forum should be able to address the same to any one's satisfaction. Certainly there should be a willingness to accept the truth from both sides. As a law- you can't make any one satisfied if he does not want to get satisfied.In the reperttoire of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and of the Scriptures like Gita/Ramayana/ Yoga Vashishtha - there is no dearth or paucity of dealing with any subject or any path or any query or "understanding acquired by the human race after the advent of the Gita". In fact when recently a sadhak stated that goodness can prevail in non believers too, he was replied that to accomplish Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga of Gitaji even a thought about something known as God is not necessary. Sadhakhood /goodness is natural in a human being. His belief system is not materially relevant there. Such grand is the coverage area of the Saints of India and of Scriptures like Gita. Whoever you are, however you are, wherever you are- so long as you are a human being, our Scriptures have answers for you.Welcome...so long as they meet with overall guidelines.Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu SukhinaNarottam ------------------------Namaste.Best wishes for a joyous and successful New Year to all sadhaks and their loved ones.As much as I discern a need for a forum for "arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists", I urge the hard-working Moderators to limit the content of to the current scope, and do not expand to include related or new content.Gita-talk is a divine forum, it is the most extensive and informative forum for GITA; it is well-moderated; it serves as an illuminating oasis for GITA thoughts and opinions; it should remain that way. Remembr the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.There are hundreds of thousands of forums to facilitate discussions on a variety of topics but there are only a precious few that are dedicated to GITA. Let us not dilute the content of ; let's keep the focus on GITA in .If I may suggest: can we revisit or create new threads in that will handle the fundamental concepts of GITA? There are new members who may have missed the earlier threads, and even unaware of previous topics of discussion.And, the Moderators, or others, can create a new forum for "arguments and findings of philosophers and scientists."Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath Caribbean-Hindus ----------One who realises the Truth will express in his own way, that is, with his background.There is nothing wrong in expressing through current terminology.We may call this as gita+ talk.Y V Chawla--------------Respected Sadhaks of Gita, Pranam:May I request that Gita Talks be limited to Gitaji and the base of Gitaji alone. I am afraid that if you open it up to other views, relevance of Gitaji in those discussions will be lost.My respectful Pranam to you all. Harish Sharma ==================================Shree Hari Ram RamThe group was primarily initiated for sadhaks having questions on Gitaji or on their Sadhana (spiritual practices), or on discourses of Swamiji, to bring forward via the group. Swamiji emphasized the importance of clearing all doubts to advance quickly spiritually. The group / forum has been serving that purpose so far. The moderators are open and receptive to relevant findings / discussions based on all philosophers / scientists etc. as long as the responses are RELEVANT, BRIEF and demonstrate RESPECT for all. Sadhaks, please kindly express your thoughts on scope (enlargement) of discussion in 2010 and beyond. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram -----------------------------LIST OF 2009 GITA TALK TOPICS WITH LINKS TO THE DETAILSBHAGAVAD GITABhagavad Gita – Daily Verse - /message/3170Bhagavad Gita - Chapter - INTRODUCTION/message/2710Bhagavad Gita - Questions and Insights from Daily Verse/message/3026Gita - Who is the source of this great work of Hindus - Ancestors or God?/message/3127What is Geeta? What is the Meaning of Geeta?/message/3128Who Can Follow the Gita Principles?/message/3131On Gita's Suitability for Management Student s/message/2928GITA on Development and Social Change - Lessons/Teachings /message/2279Gita's Power on Turning Negative Thoughts Into Positive/message/3095Gita Study - Questions Asked by Arjuna and Responses by Lord Krishna with Ref./message/3098How Many Gita Verses to be Recited Daily; Hindi versus Sanskrit/message/3102Gita Essence / Excerpts / Insights/message/3114My Experience with Gita/message/3115GITAJI CHANGED MY LIFE / MY EXPERIENCE WITH GITA/message/3119Few Very Selected Gita Shlokas for Gita Jayanti day Compilation/message/3122ON GODDoes God (Paramatma) Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic? /message/2631Doubts about Existence of God ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAN / PARAMATMA ?/message/3002 Is God - Mother? Father ? Both? More? Where is it in Gita?/message/2951On Idol Worship and Many Gods and Goddesses - Why?/message/2966JNANA YOG (DISCIPINE OF KNOWLEDGE) Transition from Read-Learned Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge - /message/2218Conscience , It's Role, It's Awakening as per Gita /message/2081Is Samadhi a Necessary Condition for Moksha? /message/2390On Removing Mine-ness and Dissolving into IS-ness /message/2386Difference between Vratti and Sphurna per Gitaji - /message/2304 How to Let Go of I and I-ness ? /message/2261What is Maya? Where referred in Gita/Scriptures? /message/2482 On Vedanta, Seeking information for a Hindu Science Fiction Novel /message/2474 The Essence of Everything and Anything /message/2483 TAT TVAM ASI - Brief Exact Meaning/message/3076Equanimity and How It Can Lead to Emancipation? /message/2548 We Have Forgotten Who We Are? Your Thoughts? /message/2553 Yardstick to gauge Free from Egoism and Sense of Mine/message/2690Meaning and How to Attain - Mukti and Jeevan Mukti?/message/2693Effortless Attainment - Discipline of Actionlessness - (Karana Nirpeksh saadhan)/message/2687KARMA AND KARMA YOG (DISCIPINE OF KNOWLEDGE) Important Common factor in Karma, Gyana, Sanyas and Bakthi Marg – Share /message/2634 A Question about Karmic Debt /message/2652 Other's Rights and Our Duties - Your Insights/message/3184Becoming Free from Karma Bondage - Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership /message/2187IS Effort Necessary, when Everything Happens due to Praarabdh?/message/3142Is being Influenced by Preferences a Deviation from Karma Yoga? Please Guide/message/3001BHAKTI YOG (DISCIPLINE OF DEVOTION, LOVE) God Reciprocates the Sentiments of His Devotees Gita 4:11 – Share /message/2389Sharanagati - Taking Refuge - Surrendering to God, What are the 6 steps? /message/2507 DEPENDENCE ON AND REPOSE IN PARAMAATMAA AT ALL TIMES, HOW? /message/2610 Dependence - /message/2472 What More do we Need and Why do we Need More when we are GOD'S Only and Only God is Ours? /message/2505 How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for Attaining Salvation? /message/2525 IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WITH INTENSE LONGING FOR BHAGWAAN ? /message/2526 Your Thoughts on Vishwaas/message/3087Guide Me in Accepting By Self that I am only God's and Only God is Mine/message/2870Leave All Fears. Become Fearless - HOW?/message/2882What is meant by PREM? Help me articulate !/message/2807From All Belongs to God to Everything is God/message/2810Why the Lack of Constancy? Why Not Firm and Implicit Trust in His Ordinance?/message/2855Devotional Love and It's Fruits - Please Elaborate/message/2761How do we know we have taken sharanagati ? Your thoughts !/message/3104On beholding (having darshan of) Bhagwaan/message/3124How to Assure Last Thoughts at Time of Death are Only of God ?/message/2866Leave the World and Own the Lord, Please share your thoughts !/message/3036Thoughts on Seeing God's Grace in Both Favorable and Unfavorable Situations/message/2961FOR HOUSEHOLDERS Advice on Dealing with Dishonesty and In-Law Relations /message/2082How to Deal with Disobedient Children? Why so much Pain given to Parents? /message/2117 Advice Sought for Troubled Marriage /message/2360Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man ? /message/2310Help me say Good bye /message/2341 Duties of a Family Man, Householder - Please Enlighten Me? /message/2242 What are the Duties of a Householder - Head of the Family towards the Family? /message/2407 Advice to one who is Devastated from Recent Loss of Father - /message/2189How to Advance Spiritually and Live in Harmony when Spouse has Worldly Interests? /message/2499 Is Spirituality Only Possible after Basic Needs are Met? /message/2215 Guidance to the Mentally Exhausted and Very Stressed/message/2516When is Accepting Abuse Inappropriate? /message/2547 Harm Caused by Arguing and Criticizing/message/2861How to emotionally deal with Children Blaming me for Divorce ?/message/2696How to Deal with Grandchildren's Attachment?/message/2848What about Wife Beating Her Husband?/message/3061Unable to Forgive for a Mistake, Please Help!!!/message/2889Why there appears to be No Justice? How long to continue with this struggle?/message/3043How to Overcome Fear of Suffering and Needing Comfort? /message/2366Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?/message/2763A Question About the Significance of Dreams of a Departed Soul/message/3147Seeking Direction In Life; Fiance Unable to Forgive Me for My Past Mistakes/message/2997Lord Ramachandra and Srimati Sita Devi/message/3033Please Help Me to regain my confidence again !/message/3072Sadhak and Dependence On Money - Share your Thoughts/message/2919Advice to One being Rejected due to KUNDALI - /message/2210USEFUL FOR SADHAKSSuccess of Human Life - What are Common among the Three Paths? /message/2397 Why is it so difficult to actualise the message of the Bhagvad Geeta ?/message/2759Definite Means for Salvation - Insights / Doubts / Agree / Disagree/message/2784What is Forbidden Food? Please Enlighten? /message/2427 Why be Vegetarian ? After All Plants Also Have Life ?/message/2834Why should one be a Vegetarian ? Does Gita say not to Eat Meat? /message/2527Without Desires Nothing will be Attained/message/3183How to keep this body healthy so that I can remain focused on God?/message/3188How to overcome the sexual thoughts (KAMA)?/message/2645Is the Mind alone the cause of man's bondage?/message/3013Relevant Gita Shlokas Pertaining to Death/message/3020Man of Steady Wisdom - Your Thoughts ......../message/3022How to control anger, anxiety ? when things are not in our control?/message/3024Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?/message/2733Aspirant (Sadhak), End (Saadhya), and Means (Saadhan) /message/2732Daily Practice? Japa? Meditation? for Sadhak per Swamiji/message/2686I Want to Only Walk This Path, Any Issues You Have with This Message?/message/2753Are Some Paths More Direct? How to Get Past Dogmas towards Common Ground?/message/2758Sins (Paap) and Virtues (Punya), Please Clairfy, Please Elaborate /message/2457 The THREE Essentials /message/2469 Important Common factor in Karma, Gyana, Sanyas and Bakthi Marg – Share/message/2634What is the meaning of PURITY? Is Ganga Snaan going to give one purity ?/message/2659What did Bhagavan say to Arjuna ? What is Holding Us Back from Realization? /message/2221 What is the Difference Between God's Grace and Saint's Grace?/message/2925Suggestions on being Free of Modes of Nature (Gunatit) per Gitaji/message/2804What is Left After Becoming a Yogi ? /message/2530 On Association with Truth and Holy Company – SATSANG /message/2592 What is the meaning of PURITY? Is Ganga Snaan going to give one purity ? /message/2659 Easy Means of Renouncing this Affinity for the World - Meaning / Practice /message/2671 On Readiness ! Are You Ready? Your Thoughts? /message/2678Paramatma - Stays, Accompanies or Exits from Jiva at Liberation? /message/2684 Peace and it's Attainment through Non-Doing / Non-Doership - Clarification ?/message/2918Can we attain Enlightenment through, Karma/Jnana or combination?/message/2945Effects of Satsang on a Few and Not Others - What is the reason?/message/2947Whose Mantra Should I Chant? I am Confused/message/3078Yardstick for Spiritual Progress /message/2351Meaning of Beej Mantra & Mool Mantra /message/2338 Satsang Well and Good, But What about Cause Effect of Contemporary Issues? /message/2255 Science and Spirituality - Identification of Concepts /message/2241 How is Sin Defined? Who Defines? Do Animals Sin? /message/3081Ultimately What is it that Man Really Wants?/message/3085CURSE - Gita's Views with any Fact / Proven Incident Details /message/2183 What is Gitaji's Explanation for Ruthless Crimes with no known Consequences/message/2811Appropriate Mantras to say at Death of a Loved One/message/2863Seeking Guidance regarding Guru and Initiation/message/2865Saadhan (Spiritual Discipline) Please Enlighten !/message/2909Can a Woman Make Someone a Guru?/message/2912On Facing of Death Gracefully /message/2529 FOR A BETTER WORLDHow to Best Promote Non-Violence?/message/3151Global Warming... Any Answers in Gitaji?/message/3153What should be Our Attitude towards Birds, Animals and Other Creatures ?/message/3167Please Share your Thoughts on Mother Earth and Any Reference in Gita/message/3126How to Develop / Transform Communities and Societies per Gitaji/message/3048May All Be Happy! May No One Experience Any Suffering... Please Explain ! /message/2541 ON SWAMIJIREMEMBERING ONE OF THE GREATEST SAINTS WHO WALKED ON THIS PLANET/message/2837Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and J. Krishnamurti - strikingly similarity /message/2354Request to Know about Swamiji's Telecast on Sanskar TV/message/3174ALL OTHERSYear 2009 - Year of Change. Can Gita Help in Change Management? Adaptation? /message/2402 Misunderstanding of Dharma with Hinduism /message/1996Isn't It Strange ! /message/2362Priceless Insight - Please Share Reflections / Experiences/message/2859Please Share Your Experience on Turning Negative to Positive/message/2878Sharing Our Daily Experience of Life/message/2904Is Engagment in Divine Play, Dreaming in the Waking State?/message/2913How will Mentally Disabled Person Achieve their Goal?/message/3143Regarding Holy Spirit and It's Attainment/message/3168 Gita-Talk Improvement Opportunities - PLEASE SHARE/message/2778 From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ==================================================