Why Can't They Use the Teachings of Gitaji to Change their Lives ?

February 5, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram.Is Gitaji only to talk and discuss and preach about? I imagine that most willsay no. My question is if Gitaji is not about talking , preaching and lecturingalone why is it that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle. I mean can one be really knowledgableabout Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beattheir wives etc? Many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji aremen and many of them are living bad lives. Why can't they use the teachings ofGitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me.Thks.Ram Singh

--

Shree Hari Ram Ram

A similar topic was addressed in the past, however, we are unable to locate the discussion thread.

One wonderful thing we learned from Swamiji, is that the minute our eyes go to someone else's duty, we are failing from doing our duty. This statement can be universally applicable to many situations. There is an excellent pravachan (discourse) by Swamiji in Hindi,

# 309 - Dosh Drishti ka Nisched (Give up Seeing Faults in Others)

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

You may download and listen. Thank you for being an instrument by bringing this topic up for sharing and learning together and inturn benefiting many sadhaks.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only)

5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted.

7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Un: -

February 6, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram.Is Gitaji only to talk and discuss and preach about? I imagine that most willsay no. My question is if Gitaji is not about talking , preaching and lecturingalone why is it that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle. I mean can one be really knowledgableabout Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beattheir wives etc? Many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji aremen and many of them are living bad lives. Why can't they use the teachings ofGitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me.Thks.Ram Singh

--

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Studying Bhagavad Gita is good but what is really important is how much of that knowledge is put into action for the welfare of others. Any knowledge that does not help others, is a wasted knowledge. Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Advesta sarva bhutanam,Maitra karuna eva ca,Nirmamo nirahankarah,Sama dukha sukha kshami. ' ( Gitaji 12, 13)Which means,'One who hates no one, friendly and merciful to every one, has no ego,no feeling of mine ness and who is equal in happiness and sorrow, that person is very dear to Me. 'Love and compassion are the teachings of Gitaji. For spiritual advancement, we also need satsang. Once we are in the association of compassionate devotees who are deeply engaged in devotional service, then every thing falls in right place. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

---

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Brothers, to read something, hear it, relay it, study it, to spread it-lecture on it, to remember it, there is no real proof that that one has imbibed those things in their lives. In other words, he has become just as what was learned/known. If someone did not apply the messages of the Gita to their lives, than what is Gita to do about it? It is that individual's misfortune alone that such beneficial talks were not put to proper use. So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

------------------------------

-Shree Hari-Namaste!A very very good question!Ego! People love to show off, "Look how clever I am, I have memorized the Gitaji", well yes that can become a sacred task, but only if one were to embrace it's message. No point in being an intellectual parrot.Satsang can re-enforce its message, I for one have been changed for the better by the ebb and flow of debate at this Divine Forum!To know and understand the Gitaji, and to deliberately go against it, means in truth, that one does not really understand it!Om...Shanti...Mike (K).----------

Dear Ram Singh.

Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

This is excellent question. Good news is that you know the answer of the question.

>I mean can one be really knowledgable

>about Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beat

>their wives etc?

You are finding it hard to accept such person as being really knowledgeable of Gita.

And you are right. They don't know Gita.

This applies to this forum also, Swamiji gives very important to the fact that our self is part of Paramatma and belong to Paramatma. Our body and its extensions are not us but part of this world. Therefore, using vivek we need to accept this fact firmly. But there will be many people who may not follow his teaching. That does not make the teachings wrong.

The knowledge of Gita is rare and confidential. Krishna Himself says it in Gita. Very few people can follow it.

Those people become even more rare in Kali-yug.

Please understand that those people don't represent Gita and use this forum to understand Gita more.

Ultimately, this process is personal. In the end what matters is that how much progress we make and it doesn't matter how bad or good others are.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

--

Jai Sri Krishna,

First of all we are not entitled to criticize others. who am I to interfere?

I am sure that a person who reads Gita and understands it deeply (I am not talking about those who have just learned few verses or few chapters of Gita), cannot engage in wrong doings, at least knowingly. I know people who have just memorized it and don't have the in-depth knowledge, still I find them better than me in behaving with others.

Ram Ram

Ashok Goenka

---------------------

Dear Ram Singh, Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

SB 10.2.22 – A person who is very cruel is regarded as dead even while living, for while he is living or after his death, everyone condemns him. And after the death of a person in the bodily concept of life, he is undoubtedly transferred to the hell known as Andhatama.

SB 12.2.41 – Even though a person's body may now have the designation "king," in the end its name will be "worms,stool" or "ashes." What can a person who injures other living beings for the sake of his body know about his own self-interest, since his activities are simply leading him to hell?

Lord Ram says in Ram charitmanas —There is no worse sin (paap) than inflicting suffering or hurting others. There is no other pious activty (punya) better than helping others or working for their welfare.

From above slokas, the fate of those people you have mentioned is clear. Please have no doubt about it.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

--------------------

Dear Ram Singh

That is precisely the reason of unhappiness in life.So you have raised a very valid question.At the same time ,the fault is not with Gita.

You may have observed religious people are more unhappy compared to non-religious people.There appears something wrong about our understanding of religion and God.

Coming to your question,why people claiming to have knowledge of Gita are living bad lives?

My understanding is:-

1)Knowledge of Gita enhances their ego instead of reducing that.

2)Some of the actions are justified by considering that Karma or duty.

3)The knowledge of Gita is superficial since study is not daily.To transform life ,Gita study has to be made a daily routine.

4)Gita has been explained or commented by too many persons and every one has explained it from his point of view.It is difficult to find real Gita which when studied regularly will lead to good life.

5)Gita teaches the process to fight the evil traits or mindset within one.It contains all the meditations and the knowledge to come out living bad life.

Gita study will eventually will lead to see presence of God in everyone and also empower one to raise his level where doing bad deeds will not be possible.

One will recognise himself,his purpose of this life time.

So what you intend to do.

regards

Ashok Jain

-------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram.

I don't agree that when you see someone doing something that is wrong and you point it out is faultfinding. It is trying to help that person. My husband was abusing me and had I continue to be silent he would not have been able to get help and now lead a very happy married life together.I am so satisfied with my life and I have the ppl here to thank for.If all of you here did not make my husband see that abusive behaviour is not proper he would be doing that to me today.So I now tell anyone this, that if you are being abused do not stay silent,you must seek help somewhere.Today I was talking to a woman whose husband is a Pundit and he is neglecting his wife and two baby daughters because she did not get a son.In this day and age he is still living with the ideal of not being satisfy without a son.He does not care that he is neglecting 2 daughters and his wife.Only his wants must be fulfilled.Is it finding fault to tell this Pundit to go take care of your family before you come and tell the rest of us how to live a good life? Was Lord Krishna fault finding when he told Arjun to stop behaving like a coward and fight?

Jai Shri Krishna

Preeti Singh

Shree Hari Ram Ram

A similar topic was addressed in the past, however, we are unable to locate the discussion thread.

One wonderful thing we learned from Swamiji, is that the minute our eyes go to someone else's duty, we are failing from doing our duty. This statement can be universally applicable to many situations. There is an excellent pravachan (discourse) by Swamiji in Hindi,

# 309 - Dosh Drishti ka Nisched (Give up Seeing Faults in Others)

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

You may download and listen. Thank you for being an instrument by bringing this topic up for sharing and learning together and inturn benefiting many sadhaks.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only)

5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted.

7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Un: -

February 7, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram.Is Gitaji only to talk and discuss and preach about? I imagine that most willsay no. My question is if Gitaji is not about talking , preaching and lecturingalone why is it that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle. I mean can one be really knowledgableabout Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beattheir wives etc? Many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji aremen and many of them are living bad lives. Why can't they use the teachings ofGitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me.Thks.Ram Singh

--

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadaks,GEETHA is based on Virtue of Principle of living. Everyone knows telling lies is incorrect. But there was an example to that was Harischandra. So there are example of each teaching of Geetha by lived person. All go to temple as a visit NOT with Love able Devotion. But few went to temple where Bagavan HIMSELF appeared to Baktha, ate the food he offered, lived with Baktha, protected Baktha Etc. Geetha principles are values of life existence and beyond. It is like a teacher telling student certain principle but teacher does not follow. The teacher is a preacher, NOT real teacher. But one who understood and follow Geetha normally 100% will not open his mouth that he has studied Geetha, but will be example in living style. Geetha is there open to all, but all cannot put in practice, due his/her own Karma Pala and inability to do Sadana. Like Ph.D is open to all candidates, but how may do complete Ph.D and how many get great award in reasurching Ph.D in any discipline. So is rare are the ones who get award on Geetha practice in life. In fact Arjuna asks Sri Krishna to repeat Geetha much after the war, saying he forgot. SADAKS- ONE VERY IMPORTANT GEETHA TEACHING IS; NEVER TO FIND FAULT WITH ANYONE. BECUASE, ONE WHO SEES IN OTHERS NOT FOLLOWING GEETHA, HE GETS IMPURITY BY SUCH THOUGHTS, AS HIS THOUGHTS GET ATTACHED THE ACTION (kARMA) OF SEEING DHOSA IN OTHERS AND THAT DHOSA STICKS TO HIM. Example: You see a Geetha preacher womanizing (As said by this sadak Ram Sing-Not by me), the thought of that persons revolves around you. So why see or find fault and get yourself impurity. B.Sathyanarayan.

-

Dear Ones, Namaste!Ram Singhji asks: "Why can't they use the teachings of Gitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me."As you say, those who boast their knowledge of Gitaji, may have an agenda to impress people, to feel their importance, to have power over others, etc etc, all to fulfill the bottomless cup of "me" who may be aching with lack of some kinds, they don't even have any clue! Another point: It is possible that this question of yours may not be really a question to others but to yourself in the sense that if such people cannot change by the study of Gita, then what is the sense (for me?) of pursuing the knowledge of Gita? Someone may also be saying "let me be sure Gita changes the life of those people before I myself undertake the study". This is placing the condition upon Gita, not unconditional Love for it! My answer: " If Gita goes through one instead of one goes through GIta, it is impossible not to change", a big difference! Generally it is not understood deeply without the help of Realized souls, like Swamiji who have digested the teaching in their own experience, not just kept it at information level Words of Scriptures, heard or read, must be contemplated there and then by looking into one's own inner experience, until one can put them in their own words, not repeat what is read or heard! This will bring change!.One more very important point as I see: It is not enough to understand Gita while living the same life of bad habits, such as alcohol, meat eating, smoking, obsessions with objects, attachments, etc etc. One needs to co-operate with Gita study by giving up bad habits simultaneously! People ask wrong question as to why am I not changing or why God is not helping me while I am pursuing spiritual path? God tells them through their Conscience: "Hey you are living the old ways, give up and help me to help you". Alas, those whose eyes are on the results, cannot hear God!My suggestion is, not wait another day and not worry about such people who don't change. Just jump in any spiritual pursuits by engaging in study of Gita, Satsangs with like minded people, and above all if you can see someone living Gita around you, follow him/her! You will be able to tell someone is true or not by just listening with open mind and noticing joy or satisfaction arising in you by words you hear. But this is only if one is sincere, interested in Truth for Love of it, no hidden agenda of any kind, and more than anything, even if it doesn't change Life immediately! This is Unconditional Love of God!Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt!

------------------

-Shree Hari-Namaste!This post is directed to Preeti Singh :Ma'am, this is something Gandhi once said, in a time of terrible strife in India: 'A Hindu man came to him, to speak of his young boy who had been killed by Muslim mobs, and of the depth of his anger and longing for revenge. And Gandhi is said to have replied: If you really wish to overcome your pain, find a young boy, just as young as your son, a Muslim boy whose parents have been killed by Hindu mobs.Bring up that boy like you would your own son, but bring him up with the Muslim faith to which he was born. Only then will you find that you can heal your pain, your anger....'. No wonder he was called Mahatma Gandhi! Remind the good Pundit of those words, and ask him why was he blessed with two daughters?Om...Shanti...Mike (K).------------

When one knows the Truth, one is disabled to denounce others who seem to be on the wrong path.

The understanding of Truth does not make one superior in comparison to others. One becomes one with the Scheme of the Universe as it is. The transformation puts one with the mystery. One lands in the wonderland.

One conveys the Truth with one's living without imposing it on others.

Y V Chawla

----

If you had cerefully noticed certain verses of Gita you would not have been puzzled. According to Gita, very few persons are likely to even try following the teachings of Gita in life. Of those few who try practicing such teachings in their life,negligible percentage will stay on course as others will fall back from the path to progress. The rare will achieve certain progress and the rarest will reach liberation. Gita also says that the real sadhaka is not distracted by debates but debates and discussions may help some to progress on the path of liberation from worldly bondage of sensual pleasures and pain. Gita's teachings are simple:

1. Give up ego of being the doer, the possessor and different from others. Practice eqaunamity.

2. Give up all desires as fast as one can. Do whatever you do without ego of being the doer and without the desire to enjoy/ fear to suffer the fruits/ results/ consequences of actions.

3. Know that God almighty exists in all beings and realize / attain this God through medidation on this infinite. indestructible, God.

4. Submit all actions, thoughts, and feeings to God and remain unperturned by all external events.

But it is is the most difficult and almost impossible to practice the above four teachings continuously without break till death of the body. And, if some of us while intending to practice the above, get attached to the discussions on what different words in Gita really meant, it is only natural and most cases inevitable. For, it is difficult to give up the ego of being a sadhaka, of being knowledgable about Gita's teachings, of being learned on Gita's verses, of being smarter among the sadhakas. It is also difficult while being a sadhaka to give up the desire to know about Gita and instead submit to God and fully depend onHim for the progress on the path to liberation.

I am so attached with external events that I respond to your posting, I respond to your question as if I know better and can help you, I fail to realize that what I or you do is nothing but what He makes us do. This is the impact of Maya that we suffer from even when we are on the path of Sadhna for liberation. This is exactly what Gita predicts. The fact that we have been trying to give up ego, give up desires and keen to realize God does not automatically make us ego-less, desire-less, unattached and submerged in equanamity. We only hope to prgress even as we seemingly waste time and energy in discussion and debate. That is is the way He like us to progress. If and when I reach liberation or Mukti or Moksha, there will be no more boasting, talking , preaching and lecturing: the four teachings of Gita mentioned above will make me rest in God rather than be involved in Gita-talk discussions. But when, if at all, will that happen?

Basudeb Sen

---------

Jai Shri Ram,Dear RamiJi, You may be correct to some/much extent. In my understanding it all depends upon how close is the knowledge of GitaJi to self. If its closeness to the self is more than that of the ego/kaam, then such person would never be the cause of the environment you have mentioned. Yes, if that knowledge resides only at the intellect/buddhi level which is driven by the ego/kaam/desire, such environments could be found.To avoid such environments, my suggestion is to "Live in GitaJi" instead of "use the knowledge of GitaJi" towards closing the gap between the self and the knowledge.May God bless us all!Niteesh Dubey

---

-

Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Studying Bhagavad Gita is good but what is really important is how much of that knowledge is put into action for the welfare of others. Any knowledge that does not help others, is a wasted knowledge. Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Advesta sarva bhutanam,Maitra karuna eva ca,Nirmamo nirahankarah,Sama dukha sukha kshami. ' ( Gitaji 12, 13)Which means,'One who hates no one, friendly and merciful to every one, has no ego,no feeling of mine ness and who is equal in happiness and sorrow, that person is very dear to Me. 'Love and compassion are the teachings of Gitaji. For spiritual advancement, we also need satsang. Once we are in the association of compassionate devotees who are deeply engaged in devotional service, then every thing falls in right place. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

---

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Brothers, to read something, hear it, relay it, study it, to spread it-lecture on it, to remember it, there is no real proof that that one has imbibed those things in their lives. In other words, he has become just as what was learned/known. If someone did not apply the messages of the Gita to their lives, than what is Gita to do about it? It is that individual's misfortune alone that such beneficial talks were not put to proper use. So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

------------------------------

-Shree Hari-Namaste!A very very good question!Ego! People love to show off, "Look how clever I am, I have memorized the Gitaji", well yes that can become a sacred task, but only if one were to embrace it's message. No point in being an intellectual parrot.Satsang can re-enforce its message, I for one have been changed for the better by the ebb and flow of debate at this Divine Forum!To know and understand the Gitaji, and to deliberately go against it, means in truth, that one does not really understand it!Om...Shanti...Mike (K).----------

Dear Ram Singh.

Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

This is excellent question. Good news is that you know the answer of the question.

>I mean can one be really knowledgable

>about Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beat

>their wives etc?

You are finding it hard to accept such person as being really knowledgeable of Gita.

And you are right. They don't know Gita.

This applies to this forum also, Swamiji gives very important to the fact that our self is part of Paramatma and belong to Paramatma. Our body and its extensions are not us but part of this world. Therefore, using vivek we need to accept this fact firmly. But there will be many people who may not follow his teaching. That does not make the teachings wrong.

The knowledge of Gita is rare and confidential. Krishna Himself says it in Gita. Very few people can follow it.

Those people become even more rare in Kali-yug.

Please understand that those people don't represent Gita and use this forum to understand Gita more.

Ultimately, this process is personal. In the end what matters is that how much progress we make and it doesn't matter how bad or good others are.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

--

Jai Sri Krishna,

First of all we are not entitled to criticize others. who am I to interfere?

I am sure that a person who reads Gita and understands it deeply (I am not talking about those who have just learned few verses or few chapters of Gita), cannot engage in wrong doings, at least knowingly. I know people who have just memorized it and don't have the in-depth knowledge, still I find them better than me in behaving with others.

Ram Ram

Ashok Goenka

---------------------

Dear Ram Singh, Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

SB 10.2.22 – A person who is very cruel is regarded as dead even while living, for while he is living or after his death, everyone condemns him. And after the death of a person in the bodily concept of life, he is undoubtedly transferred to the hell known as Andhatama.

SB 12.2.41 – Even though a person's body may now have the designation "king," in the end its name will be "worms,stool" or "ashes." What can a person who injures other living beings for the sake of his body know about his own self-interest, since his activities are simply leading him to hell?

Lord Ram says in Ram charitmanas —There is no worse sin (paap) than inflicting suffering or hurting others. There is no other pious activty (punya) better than helping others or working for their welfare.

From above slokas, the fate of those people you have mentioned is clear. Please have no doubt about it.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

--------------------

Dear Ram Singh

That is precisely the reason of unhappiness in life.So you have raised a very valid question.At the same time ,the fault is not with Gita.

You may have observed religious people are more unhappy compared to non-religious people.There appears something wrong about our understanding of religion and God.

Coming to your question,why people claiming to have knowledge of Gita are living bad lives?

My understanding is:-

1)Knowledge of Gita enhances their ego instead of reducing that.

2)Some of the actions are justified by considering that Karma or duty.

3)The knowledge of Gita is superficial since study is not daily.To transform life ,Gita study has to be made a daily routine.

4)Gita has been explained or commented by too many persons and every one has explained it from his point of view.It is difficult to find real Gita which when studied regularly will lead to good life.

5)Gita teaches the process to fight the evil traits or mindset within one.It contains all the meditations and the knowledge to come out living bad life.

Gita study will eventually will lead to see presence of God in everyone and also empower one to raise his level where doing bad deeds will not be possible.

One will recognise himself,his purpose of this life time.

So what you intend to do.

regards

Ashok Jain

-------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram.

I don't agree that when you see someone doing something that is wrong and you point it out is faultfinding. It is trying to help that person. My husband was abusing me and had I continue to be silent he would not have been able to get help and now lead a very happy married life together.I am so satisfied with my life and I have the ppl here to thank for.If all of you here did not make my husband see that abusive behaviour is not proper he would be doing that to me today.So I now tell anyone this, that if you are being abused do not stay silent,you must seek help somewhere.Today I was talking to a woman whose husband is a Pundit and he is neglecting his wife and two baby daughters because she did not get a son.In this day and age he is still living with the ideal of not being satisfy without a son.He does not care that he is neglecting 2 daughters and his wife.Only his wants must be fulfilled.Is it finding fault to tell this Pundit to go take care of your family before you come and tell the rest of us how to live a good life? Was Lord Krishna fault finding when he told Arjun to stop behaving like a coward and fight?

Jai Shri Krishna

Preeti Singh

Shree Hari Ram Ram

A similar topic was addressed in the past, however, we are unable to locate the discussion thread.

One wonderful thing we learned from Swamiji, is that the minute our eyes go to someone else's duty, we are failing from doing our duty. This statement can be universally applicable to many situations. There is an excellent pravachan (discourse) by Swamiji in Hindi,

# 309 - Dosh Drishti ka Nisched (Give up Seeing Faults in Others)

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

You may download and listen. Thank you for being an instrument by bringing this topic up for sharing and learning together and inturn benefiting many sadhaks.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant toDharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take upspiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aimof deeper understanding of Gita.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only)

5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted.

7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Un: -

February 8, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Is Gitaji only to talk and discuss and preach about? I imagine that most willsay no. My question is if Gitaji is not about talking , preaching and lecturingalone why is it that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle. I mean can one be really knowledgableabout Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beattheir wives etc? Many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji aremen and many of them are living bad lives. Why can't they use the teachings ofGitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me.Thks.Ram Singh

--

NEW POSTING

Namaste

I humbly submit the answer to this question comes from another question: "Why Can't WE Use the Teachings of Gitaji to Change OUR Lives ?". "WE" and "OUR" instead of "THEY" and "THEIR". That's it, as soon as we change OUR lives, each of us, then the objective achieved.

GITA ji does not force anyone to do anything. GITA ji lays it out for you so that it is up to you to drink this nectar to improve your life and achieve the Ultimate objective. If you are pretentious and egoistic, or humble and spiritual, or evil and heartless, or good and devoted, the Laws of Karma take effect and you will reap what you sow.

Many err into a mode of simplistic thinking, that Bhagavan is there waiting to entrap us, keeping a close watch on us, with many clerical and data processing people entering and analyzing data about who did wrong or right, when they did it, to whom, where, etc, and waiting to confront them after they have left this body. Not so; the Laws of Karma implemented by Bhagavan automatically execute, infinitely, everywhere, eternally.

Thus, sadhaks should not be disturbed by "bad people enjoying life, being successful, apparently rewarded for bad deeds" etc, who would escape what's coming to them. No one can hide and avoid what's coming to them. Don't be fixated or obsessed about others; in any case, neither you nor I can change this Eternal Process.

Remember, all relationships - parents, siblings, spouses, friends - on Earth are temporary, transient; this world is earthly, not divine; hence, do not be worried or perturbed or distracted by troubles and problems in your life, and that of others. This is difficult for humans, but you must focus on the broader overall objective of this reincarnation, of this life in this body, rather than mundane matters. Yes, this is exceedingly hard to do, but GITA ji has the answers and the manual to help you. That is the primary purpose of GITA ji, not to show how much you know of GITA ji or impress others.

Focus on yourself first; take care of yourself; take care of business in your life; charity beings at home; as Gandhi exhorts us "Be the change you wish to see in the world"; and as GITA ji advises us:

A man should uplift himself by his own self, so let him not weaken this self. For this self is the friend of oneself, and this self is the enemy of oneself. GITA 6:5

If you can also help others, then better yet, but all the knowledge in GITA ji and our other scriptures will be of no use if YOU do not use that to progress towards Moksha. That's the bigger, more important picture, not the trivial worldly matters that tend to distract and divert us.

Don't become despondent or depressed, be consoled that even if you fall or fail - "one fallen from Yoga" - you, the "doer of good", can still continue on this Divine journey towards "perfection":

Verily, O son of PrithÃ¢, there is destruction for him, neither here nor hereafter: for, the doer of good, O my son, never comes to grief.

Having attained to the worlds of the righteous, and dwelling there for everlasting years, one fallen from Yoga reincarnates in the home of the pure and the prosperous.

Or else he is born into a family of wise Yogis only; verily, a birth such as that is very rare to obtain in this world.

There he is united with the intelligence acquired in his former body, and strives more than before, for perfection, O son of the Kurus -- GITA 6:40-43

Ram Ram,

Deosaran Bisnath

----

Dear Sadaks,In Geetha Bagavan says, " IF I (Bagavan) get ONE pure Baktha among a crore, I can make the whole world purified". Imagine 5000 years ago Bagavan said IF HE CAN GET ONE in core, needless to say TODAY. Sadaks please focus on Geetha teachings and put in practice, though abundant hurdles may come across. Do not see here and there. Drona Chariya asks Arjuna pointing arrow at a bird, ( Oh Arjun do you see the tree, "Arjun says NO- Then Do you see the branch- Arjun says NO- Then Do you see the leaf- Arjun say NO- Do you see the Bird- Arjun says - NO". Then asks Dronar, what do you see Arjun. Arjun say neck of a bird. What we learn from this. Practice ONLY Geetha Teaching in practical life- Not looking at the world- Dont blame the world, as it is it`s tendency to put anyone in MAYA. You see a lion, you refrain far away. You see a deer, you remain undisturbed. Do you have Krodh on Lion and attachment for deer? No. You see both alike and see Sriman Narayana in them, that is why your mind is balanced when seeing Deer or lion. Set an example of yourself, so that people like Sri Ram Singh can believe in Geetha.B.Sathyanarayan

-----------------

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum....

The question of Ram Singh is very wonderful. It causes one to ponder, "how can the teachings of Gita help ME to be free from anarthas (unwanted bad habits)? To grasp the depth of this question, let us first accept that bad habits, on whatever level, are not simply the result of what we have learned/experienced in this life. Many lifetimes build in our heart to create "samskaras"....it has been explained that this word is defined as "impressions". But even better, when I heard someone explain, "if you take a stone, and begin to rub a string back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, continually.....you will get a groove in the stone.....this "impression" is the way "samskara" works." So....for so many lifetimes, our interaction in this world has been "what is there for me, how can I enjoy, where can I get more satisfaction for my senses"......and then suddenly we hear, as a dove singing in the early morning, the celestial verses of Bhagavad Gita. Instructing us to set aside our ego, our pride, our selfishness, our pursuit of wordly happiness, and to find satisfaction in the self alone. To many, this concept is vague. It sounds alluring, but how to "do it"? So, one point has been made in this discussion....."associate with sadhus, with those who are high class sadhaks". Better than just reading the writings is to find a person one can have faith in.....but the point is that it is often times such a unique experience, (either reading, or meeting in person) unlike what the conditioned jiva has been accustomed to, to begin considering, "take pleasure in the self alone, give up the pursuit of sensual pleasures, you are eternal soul, full of eternity, bliss, and knowledge". Such concepts, even though perhaps heard occasionally, take time to "materialize" into actions. One must be patient, and know that the influence of the words of the Supreme Lord, in the verses of the Bhagavad Gita, are extremely potent. To associate with the Lord, through His words, or through His bona fide representative(s) is to start the soul on his or her upward journey....even without being conscious of the journey.

I would like to share a very special realization I had, just days ago....afte listening to an individual discuss the concept of "trnad api sunicena, taror api sahisnuna".....(one should consider oneself to be lower than the blade of grass, more tolerant than a tree) This person was saying, that, as the blade of grass springs back up when stepped upon, to be lower than a blade of grass, one simply stays down, and does not lift up one's head when "stepped on". I was very dissatisfied with this presentation. It may be what some people realize, and perhaps at times, it may be exactly what I need to manifest, but I was annoyed, and I asked the Lord to help me understand what deeper meaning, to "lower than a blade of grass" there might be. After a day or so.... this is what He revealed to me....."Lower than the grass is the earth. The earth, our mother, is beneath the grass. To be lower than the grass, is to take the quality of mother earth, and give, and give, and give, regardless if there is appreciation....the earth gives forth bounty, endlessly.We could not survive without the fruits and vegetables, the wood from the trees, the flowing water, the support she is for all creatures, who walk on her continually, day and night, eternally....and then, also, we should never forget, due to the impiety of the age, earthquakes also erupt to cause suffering and grief, as a result of the jiva soul not remembering his relationship with the Supreme. But eiher way, Mother Earth is giving...just as a mother may at times be harsh with the child to teach a lesson, but generally, mother gives nourishment, love, affection, health, a stable environment, etc..

so, lower than a blade of grass does not mean that in the face of some unacceptable behavior, one simply has to walk away....or stay "stomped to the ground". GIVE SOME LOVE...concern....but carefully, with discretion. It may not be appreciated, but it may cause soemone to begin to question themselves, and how they treat others. Giving counsel, especially unasked for, is a sacrifice, for it opens one up to being condemned by others.....but if given with love, without fear that someone may reject or scorn us, and with kindness, gentleness, a loving heart.... it will purify ourselves and the world around us. Best, if poosible, to spend a little time and attempt to become the friend of whoever it may be that we may wish to help, to counsel, to correct.....and then lovingly place before them our concerns as to their behavior....and then knowing, also, that we will not have the strength to do this unless we ourselves are acting properly. Some may read this thought of mine, and say, "I think I can only go as far as the blade of grass which does not get back up." OK.....we are all where we are in life. But at least, consider, one day the strength may come in you, that you could lovingly speak up, firmly, boldly....when you see inappropriate behavior....without considering if you will be appreciated, or "slapped down". To me, this is lower than a blade of grass.

With all respects,

Maha laksmi Dasi

-------

words, words, words ... too many words, too many questions, too many answers .............

when words cease to be words .......... when sound ceases to be sound then peace blossoms in the heart peace so joyful, so profound .............. ah, no words, no sound ............. only the unheard symphony of the soundless sound ....

the soundless sound of AUM and...............

in that Tranquility of Being only, begins the " Living in Action " of Bhagvada Geetha's words

AUM

narinder bhandari

--------------------------------

Dear sir, I consider gita as a guide to patanjali yoga sutra .The person who wants to lead a yogic life must follow gita.All questions are answered by sri krishna,keeping arjuna before him as nimitta matra (instrument) .At last viswa roopa (Universal form) is also granted. There is no rule that every reader must follow the teachings of krishna. Ajnana (ignorance) prevails till such time jnana(knowledge) comes. Even after reciting 10 chapters it has become necessary for krishna to show viswaroopa (Universal form) to one who is none other than NARA, part of narayana. The story belongs to dwaparayuga,then what about kaliyuga? Badri Narayana Miriyala

---

Shree Paramatmane Namah

If within Gita Talk, one can say something about the Self, then I would like to respond to Preeti Singh in slightly different words.

To stay quiet while seeing someone do something wrong, is where the "Self is doing wrong. To point out the person's flaws, is not fault finding rather it is a means of helping free the other person from his flaws. Therefore one must point out such things. Whenever there is destruction of Dharma, then God Himself comes to improve the situation or does he simply stand by and watch what is going on? So be it.

Vineet Sarvottam

-----

Dear Truth Lovers, Namaste!This one is in deep appreciation of the posts of Mike Ji, and Chawlaji!In so few words they have brought up the resonating truth of Gita, or for that matter, any scripture's ultimate culmination point - Truth and nothing but Truth. As they hint so marvelously, Truth, cannot but creep up into actions, unconcerned with "others" as there are none! Apparent "others and their behaviors", are Universal Scheme as Chawlaji puts it! Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

--

Dear Sadaks,GEETHA is based on Virtue of Principle of living. Everyone knows telling lies is incorrect. But there was an example to that was Harischandra. So there are example of each teaching of Geetha by lived person. All go to temple as a visit NOT with Love able Devotion. But few went to temple where Bagavan HIMSELF appeared to Baktha, ate the food he offered, lived with Baktha, protected Baktha Etc. Geetha principles are values of life existence and beyond. It is like a teacher telling student certain principle but teacher does not follow. The teacher is a preacher, NOT real teacher. But one who understood and follow Geetha normally 100% will not open his mouth that he has studied Geetha, but will be example in living style. Geetha is there open to all, but all cannot put in practice, due his/her own Karma Pala and inability to do Sadana. Like Ph.D is open to all candidates, but how may do complete Ph.D and how many get great award in reasurching Ph.D in any discipline. So is rare are the ones who get award on Geetha practice in life. In fact Arjuna asks Sri Krishna to repeat Geetha much after the war, saying he forgot. SADAKS- ONE VERY IMPORTANT GEETHA TEACHING IS; NEVER TO FIND FAULT WITH ANYONE. BECUASE, ONE WHO SEES IN OTHERS NOT FOLLOWING GEETHA, HE GETS IMPURITY BY SUCH THOUGHTS, AS HIS THOUGHTS GET ATTACHED THE ACTION (kARMA) OF SEEING DHOSA IN OTHERS AND THAT DHOSA STICKS TO HIM. Example: You see a Geetha preacher womanizing (As said by this sadak Ram Sing-Not by me), the thought of that persons revolves around you. So why see or find fault and get yourself impurity. B.Sathyanarayan.

-

Dear Ones, Namaste!Ram Singhji asks: "Why can't they use the teachings of Gitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me."

As you say, those who boast their knowledge of Gitaji, may have an agenda to impress people, to feel their importance, to have power over others, etc etc, all to fulfill the bottomless cup of "me" who may be aching with lack of some kinds, they don't even have any clue! Another point: It is possible that this question of yours may not be really a question to others but to yourself in the sense that if such people cannot change by the study of Gita, then what is the sense (for me?) of pursuing the knowledge of Gita? Someone may also be saying "let me be sure Gita changes the life of those people before I myself undertake the study". This is placing the condition upon Gita, not unconditional Love for it!

My answer: " If Gita goes through one instead of one goes through GIta, it is impossible not to change", a big difference! Generally it is not understood deeply without the help of Realized souls, like Swamiji who have digested the teaching in their own experience, not just kept it at information level Words of Scriptures, heard or read, must be contemplated there and then by looking into one's own inner experience, until one can put them in their own words, not repeat what is read or heard! This will bring change!

One more very important point as I see: It is not enough to understand Gita while living the same life of bad habits, such as alcohol, meat eating, smoking, obsessions with objects, attachments, etc etc. One needs to co-operate with Gita study by giving up bad habits simultaneously! People ask wrong question as to why am I not changing or why God is not helping me while I am pursuing spiritual path? God tells them through their Conscience: "Hey you are living the old ways, give up and help me to help you". Alas, those whose eyes are on the results, cannot hear God!

My suggestion is, not wait another day and not worry about such people who don't change. Just jump in any spiritual pursuits by engaging in study of Gita, Satsangs with like minded people, and above all if you can see someone living Gita around you, follow him/her! You will be able to tell someone is true or not by just listening with open mind and noticing joy or satisfaction arising in you by words you hear. But this is only if one is sincere, interested in Truth for Love of it, no hidden agenda of any kind, and more than anything, even if it doesn't change Life immediately! This is Unconditional Love of God!Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt!

------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

This post is directed to Preeti Singh :

Ma'am, this is something Gandhi once said, in a time of terrible strife in India: 'A Hindu man came to him, to speak of his young boy who had been killed by Muslim mobs, and of the depth of his anger and longing for revenge. And Gandhi is said to have replied: If you really wish to overcome your pain, find a young boy, just as young as your son, a Muslim boy whose parents have been killed by Hindu mobs.Bring up that boy like you would your own son, but bring him up with the Muslim faith to which he was born. Only then will you find that you can heal your pain, your anger....'. No wonder he was called Mahatma Gandhi! Remind the good Pundit of those words, and ask him why was he blessed with two daughters?

Om...Shanti...

Mike (K).------------

When one knows the Truth, one is disabled to denounce others who seem to be on the wrong path.The understanding of Truth does not make one superior in comparison to others. One becomes one with the Scheme of the Universe as it is. The transformation puts one with the mystery. One lands in the wonderland.One conveys the Truth with one's living without imposing it on others.Y V Chawla----

If you had cerefully noticed certain verses of Gita you would not have been puzzled. According to Gita, very few persons are likely to even try following the teachings of Gita in life. Of those few who try practicing such teachings in their life,negligible percentage will stay on course as others will fall back from the path to progress. The rare will achieve certain progress and the rarest will reach liberation. Gita also says that the real sadhaka is not distracted by debates but debates and discussions may help some to progress on the path of liberation from worldly bondage of sensual pleasures and pain. Gita's teachings are simple:1. Give up ego of being the doer, the possessor and different from others. Practice eqaunamity.2. Give up all desires as fast as one can. Do whatever you do without ego of being the doer and without the desire to enjoy/ fear to suffer the fruits/ results/ consequences of actions.3. Know that God almighty exists in all beings and realize / attain this God through medidation on this infinite. indestructible, God.4. Submit all actions, thoughts, and feeings to God and remain unperturned by all external events. But it is is the most difficult and almost impossible to practice the above four teachings continuously without break till death of the body. And, if some of us while intending to practice the above, get attached to the discussions on what different words in Gita really meant, it is only natural and most cases inevitable. For, it is difficult to give up the ego of being a sadhaka, of being knowledgable about Gita's teachings, of being learned on Gita's verses, of being smarter among the sadhakas. It is also difficult while being a sadhaka to give up the desire to know about Gita and instead submit to God and fully depend onHim for the progress on the path to liberation. I am so attached with external events that I respond to your posting, I respond to your question as if I know better and can help you, I fail to realize that what I or you do is nothing but what He makes us do. This is the impact of Maya that we suffer from even when we are on the path of Sadhna for liberation. This is exactly what Gita predicts. The fact that we have been trying to give up ego, give up desires and keen to realize God does not automatically make us ego-less, desire-less, unattached and submerged in equanamity. We only hope to prgress even as we seemingly waste time and energy in discussion and debate. That is is the way He like us to progress. If and when I reach liberation or Mukti or Moksha, there will be no more boasting, talking , preaching and lecturing: the four teachings of Gita mentioned above will make me rest in God rather than be involved in Gita-talk discussions. But when, if at all, will that happen?Basudeb Sen

---------

Jai Shri Ram,Dear RamiJi, You may be correct to some/much extent. In my understanding it all depends upon how close is the knowledge of GitaJi to self. If its closeness to the self is more than that of the ego/kaam, then such person would never be the cause of the environment you have mentioned. Yes, if that knowledge resides only at the intellect/buddhi level which is driven by the ego/kaam/desire, such environments could be found.To avoid such environments, my suggestion is to "Live in GitaJi" instead of "use the knowledge of GitaJi" towards closing the gap between the self and the knowledge.

May God bless us all!Niteesh Dubey

---

-

Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka. Studying Bhagavad Gita is good but what is really important is how much of that knowledge is put into action for the welfare of others. Any knowledge that does not help others, is a wasted knowledge. Lord Krishna says in Gitaji,"Advesta sarva bhutanam,Maitra karuna eva ca,Nirmamo nirahankarah,Sama dukha sukha kshami. ' ( Gitaji 12, 13)Which means,'One who hates no one, friendly and merciful to every one, has no ego,no feeling of mine ness and who is equal in happiness and sorrow, that person is very dear to Me. 'Love and compassion are the teachings of Gitaji. For spiritual advancement, we also need satsang. Once we are in the association of compassionate devotees who are deeply engaged in devotional service, then every thing falls in right place. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

---

Shree Hari Ram Ram Brothers, to read something, hear it, relay it, study it, to spread it-lecture on it, to remember it, there is no real proof that that one has imbibed those things in their lives. In other words, he has become just as what was learned/known. If someone did not apply the messages of the Gita to their lives, than what is Gita to do about it? It is that individual's misfortune alone that such beneficial talks were not put to proper use. So be it.Vineet Sarvottam -------------------------------Shree Hari-

Namaste!

A very very good question!

Ego! People love to show off, "Look how clever I am, I have memorized the Gitaji", well yes that can become a sacred task, but only if one were to embrace it's message. No point in being an intellectual parrot.

Satsang can re-enforce its message, I for one have been changed for the better by the ebb and flow of debate at this Divine Forum!

To know and understand the Gitaji, and to deliberately go against it, means in truth, that one does not really understand it!

Om...Shanti...

Mike (K).----------

Dear Ram Singh. Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

This is excellent question. Good news is that you know the answer of the question.

>I mean can one be really knowledgable>about Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beat>their wives etc?

You are finding it hard to accept such person as being really knowledgeable of Gita.And you are right. They don't know Gita.

This applies to this forum also, Swamiji gives very important to the fact that our self is part of Paramatma and belong to Paramatma. Our body and its extensions are not us but part of this world. Therefore, using vivek we need to accept this fact firmly. But there will be many people who may not follow his teaching. That does not make the teachings wrong.

The knowledge of Gita is rare and confidential. Krishna Himself says it in Gita. Very few people can follow it. Those people become even more rare in Kali-yug.

Please understand that those people don't represent Gita and use this forum to understand Gita more.Ultimately, this process is personal. In the end what matters is that how much progress we make and it doesn't matter how bad or good others are.

Regards,Gaurav Mittal --Jai Sri Krishna, First of all we are not entitled to criticize others. who am I to interfere?I am sure that a person who reads Gita and understands it deeply (I am not talking about those who have just learned few verses or few chapters of Gita), cannot engage in wrong doings, at least knowingly. I know people who have just memorized it and don't have the in-depth knowledge, still I find them better than me in behaving with others. Ram Ram Ashok Goenka---------------------Dear Ram Singh, Shree Hari. Ram Ram. SB 10.2.22 – A person who is very cruel is regarded as dead even while living, for while he is living or after his death, everyone condemns him. And after the death of a person in the bodily concept of life, he is undoubtedly transferred to the hell known as Andhatama.

SB 12.2.41 – Even though a person's body may now have the designation "king," in the end its name will be "worms,stool" or "ashes." What can a person who injures other living beings for the sake of his body know about his own self-interest, since his activities are simply leading him to hell?

Lord Ram says in Ram charitmanas —There is no worse sin (paap) than inflicting suffering or hurting others. There is no other pious activty (punya) better than helping others or working for their welfare.

From above slokas, the fate of those people you have mentioned is clear. Please have no doubt about it.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

--------------------

Dear Ram Singh That is precisely the reason of unhappiness in life.So you have raised a very valid question.At the same time ,the fault is not with Gita.

You may have observed religious people are more unhappy compared to non-religious people.There appears something wrong about our understanding of religion and God.

Coming to your question,why people claiming to have knowledge of Gita are living bad lives?

My understanding is:-

1)Knowledge of Gita enhances their ego instead of reducing that.2)Some of the actions are justified by considering that Karma or duty.3)The knowledge of Gita is superficial since study is not daily.To transform life ,Gita study has to be made a daily routine.4)Gita has been explained or commented by too many persons and every one has explained it from his point of view.It is difficult to find real Gita which when studied regularly will lead to good life.5)Gita teaches the process to fight the evil traits or mindset within one.It contains all the meditations and the knowledge to come out living bad life.

Gita study will eventually will lead to see presence of God in everyone and also empower one to raise his level where doing bad deeds will not be possible.

One will recognise himself,his purpose of this life time.

So what you intend to do.

regards

Ashok Jain-------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram. I don't agree that when you see someone doing something that is wrong and you point it out is faultfinding. It is trying to help that person. My husband was abusing me and had I continue to be silent he would not have been able to get help and now lead a very happy married life together.I am so satisfied with my life and I have the ppl here to thank for.If all of you here did not make my husband see that abusive behaviour is not proper he would be doing that to me today.So I now tell anyone this, that if you are being abused do not stay silent,you must seek help somewhere.Today I was talking to a woman whose husband is a Pundit and he is neglecting his wife and two baby daughters because she did not get a son.In this day and age he is still living with the ideal of not being satisfy without a son.He does not care that he is neglecting 2 daughters and his wife.Only his wants must be fulfilled.Is it finding fault to tell this Pundit to go take care of your family before you come and tell the rest of us how to live a good life? Was Lord Krishna fault finding when he told Arjun to stop behaving like a coward and fight?Jai Shri KrishnaPreeti Singh

Shree Hari Ram Ram

A similar topic was addressed in the past, however, we are unable to locate the discussion thread.

One wonderful thing we learned from Swamiji, is that the minute our eyes go to someone else's duty, we are failing from doing our duty. This statement can be universally applicable to many situations. There is an excellent pravachan (discourse) by Swamiji in Hindi,

# 309 - Dosh Drishti ka Nisched (Give up Seeing Faults in Others)

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/html/download.htm

You may download and listen. Thank you for being an instrument by bringing this topic up for sharing and learning together and inturn benefiting many sadhaks.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===========================================GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE - FOR QUESTIONER1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path2. The Questioner must commit to feedback at end of dicussion to bring closure and commit to daily Gita study3. Only one question at a time.4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.3. RESPECT all Sadhaks. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be BRIEF, RELEVANT (stay with the subject being discussed only) 5. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person6. All responses may not be posted.7. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limitthe use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.

GITA TALK MODERATORSRam Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

February 9, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram.

Is Gitaji only to talk and discuss and preach about? I imagine that most willsay no. My question is if Gitaji is not about talking , preaching and lecturingalone why is it that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle. I mean can one be really knowledgableabout Gitaji and live a life of abuse, womanising, be a deadbeat father, beattheir wives etc? Many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji aremen and many of them are living bad lives. Why can't they use the teachings ofGitaji to change their lifestyle? This is puzzling me.Thks.Ram Singh

--

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhak,

Spirituality is the journey within. When "I" start searching my own "Self" , when "I" start obeserving my own behaviour, when "I" start following teaching of Gitaji, there remains no other ....

Please modify your question-Are you following Gitaji? Are you leading your life according to my Krishna's teaching ?

We all are interested in implementing what Girdhar taught us. Please share with us what do you learn from HIM ? That would help you and all of us too.

With Love,

A sadhika

Sadhna Karigar

-----------

Hari OmA good question. But why do you think so? What makes you feel that many people who boast of their knowledge of Gitaji can'tseem to extend that to their own lifestyle ? Why your eye is there on those people who according to you live a life of abuse, womanising, are a deadbeat father, beat their wives etc? Why do you look at those many of the ppl who claim to be knowledgeable about Gitaji are men and many of them are living bad lives. Why do you wish that they use the teachings of Gitaji to change their lifestyle ? Have you changed? If yes ..tell us how so that we may get benefits.Why... " This is puzzling me " ?Now think. Just As: You got focussed on 'the world' ( others) with reference to Gitaji while you should have concentrated at looking at your own self ...In other words JUST AS you used your power ' to Know Something' for knowing about others...Similarly: World at large reads Gitaji to understand or form opinions about 'others' ...in other words tries to know about others, instead of trying to know about their own selves... This is error because Gitaji means... Utilisation of power ' to know something ' .... 'knowledge' (Jnana) .. And power 'to know' should always be applied 'to know SELF' (JEEVA) and not ' to know others' viz Jagat (world) ! Rather,another power viz the power 'to do' should be applied with reference to others (JAGAT) but not for Jeeva. The third power viz the power 'to believe' should be applied with reference to Paramatma (JAGDISH) and not with reference to Jagat !!Oh ! Stupid Jeeva !! JEEVA wants to know about JAGAT while it is empowered to know about SELF; wants to do for Self while it is empowered to do for JAGAT; wants to get what is in wallet of Paramatma - JAGDISH- while it is empowered ( to believe) to get the VERY PARAMATMA !!! There are only three elements existing in universe ... Jeeva, Jagat and Jagdish ! There are only 3 powers you have: To know, To do and to believe !! There are only three goals - to know (self)/ to do (for others)/ to get (Paramatma) that after knowing (Jnana Yoga)/ doing (Karma Yoga) / getting ( Bhakti Yoga) which nothing remains to be known / done/ got. The very desire to know/ to do / to get has extinguished !!!Jeeva should use power to believe for Jagdish, power to know for Self and power to do for Jagat !!! 3 Elements, 3 Powers, 3 Desires...! Pranaams to all sadhaks.Sarve Bhavantu SukhinaNarottam ---------

Shree Hari Ram Ram.My heart is overjoy with the response I got to my question.I suggest that theModerators put up the guidelines on their page about the person who has thecapability to preach and teach Gitaji. Myself just read Gitaji as often aspossible and note the verses that I feel are important to mylife.I try as bestas possible to live a life of righteous,honoring my wife and being the besthusband and father I can possibly be.This is why it has bothered me a lot when Iknow ppl who are preachers are living bad lives. I used to think that theyshould not do so unless they clean up their life.Now I have gotten the answerfrom here that yes these ppl are just chasing after ego trips and are onlydestrying themself.The only sad thing is that the ones who they are making hellfor are not here to read.Thnks all.Ram Singh

--------

One can be an expert in the Geeta but that does not mean that the expert follows its teachings in everyday life. One will find the most notorious people frequenting ashrams. So we cannot generalise about such things. Conversely there can be good people who have never read the Gita. So these things happen. There is no criteria.Hari Shanker Deo