Does the Supreme have any wish/desire?

February 13, 2010

Jai Shri Hari

Dear Saadhaks,

Please reveal your thoughts about whether the supreme who is ever complete has

any wish/desire (although the word "desire" many not be suitable). It would be

good if those thoughts are supported by the holy scriptures.

My God bless us all!

Niteesh Dubey-----------------------------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

February 15, 2010

Jai Shri Hari

Dear Saadhaks,

Please reveal your thoughts about whether the supreme who is ever complete has

any wish/desire (although the word "desire" many not be suitable). It would be

good if those thoughts are supported by the holy scriptures.

My God bless us all!

Niteesh Dubey-----------------------------The Supreme person desires only one thing that HIS child comes back to HIS home...Komal.Chhabria

-------------------------------Shree Paramatmane NamahIf by the english word "The Supreme" if you mean "Paramatmatattva" (the Essential Element, Divinity, Truth) , then please share whetheryou have understood from Swamiji's writing - "experientially That Divinity, That Truth is as such already present - IS" (Saadhan, Sudha, Sindhu pg 61) . Because Paramatma is beyond description and not the subject of mind/intellect. So be it, Vineet Sarvottam------------------------------ Hari Om. Shree Hari. There is one Upanishad mantra that God became many from one for a loving sport . I don't know what it actually means.What I understand is that my perception of reality is based on inert matter and body. The true reality is completely independent of matter and body. Therefore, the truth is beyond our perception because we can perceive what is beyond matter right now.These questions are sometimes useless. You are asking about somethingwhich is beyond matter and you want it to be explained in terms of matter.Desires generally are product of affinity of self with the matter. As the Self and the Supreme are beyond matter, they are beyond desires.Our of His causeless mercy, the Supreme appears in front of us in avatars like Ram, Krishna etc so that we can sing His glories and realize the Truth.Regards,Gaurav Mittal-------------------------------The Supreme who is complete by definition will have no desire or wish. Desire or wish arises from incomopleteness. If there is completeness, there is no scope for a wish or desire to arise for seeking completeness. The Supreme has every thing in Him and never feels inadequate. Without any inadequacy, the Supreme has no need to wish or desire. The Supreme who is complete has everything: He contains everything in the Creation and is in existence in each and everything in the Creation. All wishes and desires of everything/ everyone are contained in Him and He exists in all wishes and desires possible in all creatures. So the Supreme does not need any desire or wish of his own. That His Creation functions the way it has been doing and will continue fully satisfies him. With nothing remaining to be satisfied, the Supreme has no scope for any wish or desire of His own. Any thing / any one even a little less than Supreme and less than Complete can only have a wish or desire.To put it differently, all that happens in this creation is nothing but his wish and desire getting fulfilled.Basudeb Sen----------------Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka.The wish of the Supreme for us is to advance spiritually and attain Him in the end. Lord Krishna clearly describes in Bhagavad Gita as to what and whom He likes the best. "Yo na hrsyati na dvesti,Na socati na kankshati,Subhasubha parityagi,Bhaktiman yah sa me priyah. "(Gitaji 12,17)Which means,'One who does not rejoice or grieve, does not lament or desire and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious activities, such a devotee is very dear to Me. 'A devotee does everything and anything, in the name of the Lord, does not get attached to the results. Lord Krishna's desire for us is to follow the teachings of Bhagavad Gita. Devotional service in the form of chanting the Holy Names is clearly the way in this Kali Yuga. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D -------------------- Dear sir, If we all belong to him,then our sankalpas also belong to him.He is the central reserve of all the sankalpas of jeevas put together.He will allow the sankalpa to become manifest basing on the quality of it.Hiranya grbha is the true proposer not we humansBadri Narayana Miriyala- Dear Ones, Namaste!Supreme is the Completeness, Wholeness, Purnatva, and as such lacks nothing.In IT, not desire, but spontaneity seems to arise: Then, Intelligence manifests!Big Bang happens!Love blossoms!Bliss as Peace reins!Joy flows!Beauty emanates!Creativity overflows!Empty canvasses get painted!Poetry out-pours!Scriptures speak its glory!Acts of kindness happens!All of these through Intelligence of ONE Being behind all beings, holding them, manifesting them while hiding in them! It seems that "doing" without desire is Creativity, Celebration, Leela which only can happen when one feels/is complete, already fulfilled even before doing, while doing with desire happens out of lack or insufficiency to fulfill through "doing"!In the former possibility for disappointment cannot exist, while the later is filled with disappointments!Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt- Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar,To imagine, conceive and understand the purpose of the Creation and Existence of this Cosmos...Vishwa...is beyond the limits of human brain...This purpose is the desire or wish of the Creator...Gee Waman---The Desire of Brahaman The Mystery of Ten Verses and One !Of Brahman , did Brahman ask ... Lord, Teach me Brahman...To Brahman did Brahman say, ... " Son, You are Brahman ! "In Joy did Brahman receive ... The Loving instruction of Brahman..With folded hands did Brahman again submit ," Lord... Lovingly , you bestow !But Brahman does not understand ! "To the humble Brahman did Brahman then instruct.. " Your Humility , dear, is the doorway... My first Gift to you...Through this doorway, then, will you, one day,Receive the knowledge ... The Knowledge of Brahman ! "Eyes raised to Brahman, the ocean watering the eyes with Love,Did Brahman , then ask again , " Gifts you bestow... there is no end . But the Gift that Brahman wants .Is the gift of Your Self. Your own Self. The Self " To the seeking Self, Lovingly did Brahman then bestow ... The Great Gift of Vision. The Vision that is called Meditation.In this Meditation, did Brahman sit for YugasFor Yugas , did Brahman take asana... Yugas... "Yugas was only a word... Silence the Word's Being .And Lo ! Time was No More,What was, wasâ€¦.Only This Moment Now ... Yugas passed ... and Brahman did smile on Brahman...And Brahman , opened the eyes. Then,to Brahman, lovingly spoke " Lord, May I call you Krishna ?...Krishna is the sound of Music that vibrates my soul !Lord, may I sing the song that thrills my Being, Krishna .. Krishna ! Jai jai Krishna " Krishna ! Krishna ! Krishna indeed am I, Brahman smiled In Joy indeed, did Brahman smile ! And so ! To Brahman did Brahman Bow !" Krishna .. You are Brahman indeed !! "In Ten verses, Did Krishna sing. Sing of the Glory of Brahman! In Ten, did Brahman receive, Receive the Song of krishna's Being ! The Ten were only One. The One-ness of Silence of Being. The Silence, which will Keep singing ... In Ten verses,the glory of Being ! The teaching said Brahman to Brahman... Easy it is.This teaching of Mine . Easy as easy can Be ! But to the non willing, The teaching will ever remain A Mystery... The Mystery of Being ! It would be good if those thoughts are supported by the holy scriptures..................Niteesh Dubey ah Beloved, which could be a greater Scripture what could be more Holythan the heart in Silence of Love and, the Being revelling in that Silence ........... ah !AUM narinder bhandari-----Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

February 17, 2010

Shree Hari Ram Ram

We are once again having trouble with mail formatting... We apologize. Gita

Talk Moderators,

Ram Ram

----------------------------

Jai Shri Hari

Dear Saadhaks,

Please reveal your thoughts about whether the supreme who is ever complete has

any wish/desire (although the word " desire " many not be suitable). It would be

good if those thoughts are supported by the holy scriptures.

My God bless us all!

Niteesh Dubey

-----------------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste

The concepts of " desire " , " wishes " , 'wants " are earthly or of this world,

applicable to mere mortals. Humans and animals desire and wish for things they

do not have, or are unable to achieve.

Bhagavan is All-Pervading, that is, absolute, all-comprehending,

all-comprehensive, all-covering, all-embracing, all-encompassing, all-filling,

all-including, and all-inclusive.

Bhagavan is Omniscient, that is, having complete or unlimited knowledge,

awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

Bhagavan is Omnipotent, that is having unlimited authority or infinite in power.

Everything comes from Bhagavan; He has everything; He can do anything; hence no

need for Him desiring or wishing for anything.

Here are a few scriptural passages to describe the nature of Bhagavan:

" That Brahman is in front and in back, in the north, south, east, and west, and

also overhead and below. In other words, that supreme Brahman effulgence spreads

throughout both the material and spiritual skies. "

~~ MUNDAKA UPANISHAD 2.1.1

" The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart. 0 Arjuna, and is directing

the wanderings of all living entities. "

~~ GITA 18:61

" Bhagavan is He who possesses without limit the six types of opulence â€ "

strength, fame, wealth, knowledge, beauty and renunciation. "

~~ VISHNU PURANA

All this world is pervaded by me in My unmanifested form: all beings exist in

Me, but I do not dwell in them.

Nor do beings exist in Me (in reality), behold My Divine Yoga! Bringing forth

and supporting the beings, My Self does not dwell in them.

As the mighty wind, moving always everywhere, rests ever in the Akaasha, know

thou, that even so do all beings rest in Me. GITA 9:4-6

Ram Ram,

Deosaran Bisnath.

----------------

Yes, the Super-entity is indeed " complete " . According to one analogy, the

" ultimate reality " is lonely, and creates a world that is " non existent " in

reality, out of its own self, but not separate from itself, and is called as

" Maya-- a reality unto itself, which exists and yet has no independent

existence " . This world is supposed to be a " Leela " ---a play, of " dancing "

figurines at the will of the Super being, like a day dream, which will come to

an end at " pralaya--kaal " , just as dreams come to an end on waking up, and will

be swallowed by the Super being, only to be reassembled at some later time in a

" new " play.Modern analogy is that of a " Black hole " that swallows entire

galaxies, and then the nuclear power inside the black hole cannot contain itself

anymore, becomes " super heated " and leaks out into new galaxies, perhaps with

" new / different lives " , only to be swallowed up again in another " billions " of

human years, into that black hole.That's the best explanation as I

understand.When the galaxies are " sucked up " , will they come back in the same

form when the black hole " spews them out " in future ? Will there be different

life forms ? Will the structure of these new galaxies be different ? This is the

same question as to what will happen to us after death ? Or what will happen to

the bubble in a wave of ocean, after it ruptures ? Will it even be reborn into

another bubble? Will this new bubble be similar or different ? Will it remember

its past life / lives ? Will it attain Moksha ?Does it matter ?While this galaxy

lasts, if it regenerates while it " exists " , what principles will it follow ? Our

Vedantic explanation so far, is past karmas ! Therefore do well unto yourself

and unto others. You will also attain satisfaction that you have done good

honestly, whatever you could and also tried to help others out of their miseries

!!

After that it is upto that Super being !!

d

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

-------------------

A pure devotee is neither happy or distressed over material gain and loss, nor

is he anxious on getting a disciple or not getting them. If he loses someone or

something dear to him he does not lament. If he does not get what he desires he

is not distressed. This person is transcendental in the face of all auspicious,

inauspicious and sinful activities. He accepts all risks to satisfy the Supreme

Lord. Nothing impedes devotional service...Such a devotee is dear to Krsna.In

all this statement the fundamental answer is that the desire/wish is for the

devotee to be at one with the Divine.

Om Shanti-

catherine Anderson

Yes Paramatmatatva is beyond description

---------------

Nari-Narinder samvaada continues to be par-excellent!! Thank you for the

revelations from the abyss of your presence, Narinderji!

Regards.

Naga Narayana.

-------------------

Respected Sadhaka brindam:

In reply to the question raised by Niteeshji I would like to bring the following

references from Vedas and Bhagavadgita so that everyone can draw their own

conclusions as to whether the God as wishes and desires or not. I prefer to

call it as HIS Sankalpa or Will. 1. Nasadiya Suktam from RigVeda has a reference

to this Sankalpa.

Nasadiya Sukta from Rigveda deals with the subject of what was there before the

creation and how the creation started. It is fascinating to see many of the

ideas of scientific thinking of " Black Holes " , " Big Bang Theory " and

" Uncertainty Principle " etc.are all found in this Sukta and is widely quoted by

many scientists in their discussions on cosmology.According to this Sukta, In

the beginning everything is unmanifest as in the expression " Tamaaseet tamasaa

Guudhamagre' meaning 'In the beginning darkness was engulphed in darkness' and

then it continues with the third stanza 'Kaamastadagre samavartatadhi Manaso

rethah prathamam' meaning ' In the beginning that Samkalpa which is the first

seed of the Mind sprouted'.

2. In the Hiranyagarbha Sukta also it is said ' Hiranyagarbhah Samvartatagre

bhutasya jaatah patireka aaseet' meaning ' The Supreme manifested as

Hiranyagarbha first and became the Lord of all creatures'

3. From the Supreme, as per Tittireya Upanishad, " Tadeikshata bahusyam

prajaayeya " meaning " let me be many " sprouted.

4. In Bhagadgita Ch.9 verse 10, the Lord said ' Mayyadhyaksena prakrithih

Suyate Sacharacharam' meaning 'Under my command Prikriti brings forth the

moving and unmoving'.

In conclusion I would like to point out that instead calling a wish/desire of

the Lord a better way saying may be by HIS Will. The creation is referred to as

the Dream of the Lord and we are all the characters in HIS DREAM and do not

really exist as per Yogavasishta. If our dreams are at the will of our mind,

the Creation is the Dream at the Will of the Supreme or Cosmic Mind.

I thank the organizers of this forum to express these thoughts. " Lokaah

Samashtaah Sukhino Bhavantu'

Balrama Murty Vempaty

Dear Sadak,

Bagavan-Supreme- formless- Poornathuvam (All complete)- Not Object (Apprameyam)

Etc little said as God by Upanashids. But in Script of Saint Jayadevar, Garuda

Puran, Gnaneswari of Sant Gnaneswar, Srimath Bagavath Etc says, that when a pure

soul goes to Vaikunt, it crosses Virja River with Pradama Dharshan of Sri Maha

Vishnu, the reaches Vaikunt. Then Bagavan asks that Soul, " Where have you been

all these days. " Means that Bagavan desired each and everyone of us to reach

HIM. Such a wish or desire is called in divine name " Sankalpa " . Example: Sri

Krishna came here to establish Dharma. Sri Krishna in various roop (As said in

Geetha) appears to Bakthas, dwells with them, protects them and ultimately takes

to HIS abode. The word definition of desire is said in Geetha that it is a need

of mind, that need is never ending, and the desire is that which is like Ghee

pored on fire grows multiform but DOES not suppress. The desire that which is

for good of others WITHOUT expecting least out of it is NOT called desire. The

desire to have more and more is called GREED.

B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------

Yes the Supreme Reality wants us to know the purpose of Human Birth, assist Thee

in the maintenence of His Grand wondrous Design by following Laws of Nature

(Rta) and performing social work for the welfare of all Thy children i.e. entire

mankind. This divine wish of our Supreme Father is mentioned in great details in

Vedas and partially in Bhagavad Gita where lord tell us if He does not work even

for a shortwhile great harm will be done to the entire Creation.

with regards,

Prem Sabhlok

-----------------------

Jai Shri Hari,Dear All, I thank you all for your responses.

Dear Moderator, I am sorry that this response is little long. This question

came to my mind after reading the responses in the

discussion threads related to " desire " & " SARVABOOTHITERATAAH "

posted few days ago and the word " HITKAAMYAYAA " (i.e. wish/desire

for the benefit/HIT/welfare/KALYAANA) used by the Lord Shri KishNa

in GitaJi-10/1 to indicate that He, the Supreme, does have a wish/

kaamana/desire but that is not because of any incompleteness or lack or affinity

with something else as there is nothing beyond him (MATTAH PARATARM NAANYAT -

GitaJi 7/7) and he is everything (VAASUDEV

SARVAM ITI - GitaJi 7/19). His " wish " is not only for Arjun but for every beings

as he is well wisher for all the beings (SUHRIDAM

SARVABHOOTAANAM - GitaJi -5/29). Similarly, the following lines of GitaJi

indicate that the Supreme, who is ever complete/PURNA/blissful, does not feel

happy/satisfied with respect to his supreme wish when the human beings (who are

eligible for the supreme goal) leave their bodies without getting the real

benefit (i.e. attaining the real goal).APRAAPYA MAAM NIVARTANTE MRITYUSANSAAR

VARTMANI (9/3)

MAAM APRAAPAIVA KAUNTEYA TATO YAANTI ADHAMAAM GATIM

(16/20).In my understanding, this wish (i.e. wish for the welfare of all) is the

eternal supreme wish which has been empowering the Nature

(MAYAA ADYAKSHENA PRAKRITI..-GitaJi 9/10., MAM YONIR

MAHADBRAHM GitaJi-14/3) from eternity to become a place holder

for the Jeevs (embodied souls) so that they can attain their true swaroop/nature

by shedding off the foreign elements (i.e. elements belonging to the Nature)

they have gathered from time immemorial. Infact, this wish is not something that

the Supreme has to do/create/bring it the way normal human beings do. This is

intrinsic/integral/built-in part of his own nature/swaroop.So, if the Supreme

has this wish, then why not the beings (at least the

human beings) as Bhagaan Sri KirshNa says " human beings follow my

paths in every way " (MAM VARTAANUVARATANTE MANUSHYA

PAARTH SARVASHAH - GitaJi 3/23, 4/11). In otherwords, our true

nature/swaroop must also have the same in-built eternal wish (i.e. wish for the

benefit/welfare of all). We might not be feeling it or we might not be trying to

feel it or we might be restricting it just because of the

limitations/bondage/artificiality we have created due to our own ignorance The

word " CHIKIRSHHU " in GitaJi -3/25 does indicate that this supreme wish is

enabled in the realized souls too. TulsidasJi MahaRaaj also says that the

supreme and his true follower/devotee, without any reason, are always engaged

for the benefit of all ( " HETU RAHIT JAG YUG UPAKAARII | TUM TUMHAAR SEVAK

ASURAARI " ). Swami RamSukhdashJi, at some place, mentioned about a divine

shakti/power called as " SARVA BHOOT HITAISHHINI " which is always engaged in

executing the supreme wish of helping all the beings. He says, this is the

shakti/power which helps the great people who are always engaged for the benefit

of many/all.The scriptures do suggest the saadhaks/aspirants to be engaged in

for

the benefit of all ( SARVA BHOOT HITE RATA - GitaJi 5/25, 12/5)

specially for the the aspirants following the path of the knowledge,

meditation etc. in which they start their spiritual journey by

understanding/focusing on the " self " dwelling in their bodies. There is no need

to emphasize this for the aspirants following the path of devotion and selfless

karmas as, by definition, they must be following their wishes of welfare of all

by serving the God/Viswaroop. In my understanding, this is not a

suggestion/advice but it is a reminder about the intrinsic nature of the true

self. The suggestions by the scriptures are always aligned with the true nature

of the beings.The same supreme wish is also reflected as " dhram-yukta

kaam/desire/wish in all beings " ( DHARMAAVIRUDDHO BHUTESHHU KAAMOSMI -

GitaJi 7/11) " . Here the key is " dharma " which is the carrier of the same

supreme wish (i.e. " benefits/welfare of all " ). The results of the execution of

that supreme wish by the individuals might appear limited due to the various

constraints (e.g. body, place, time, circumstances etc.) but living in that wish

is no different than living in the root of that wish. A very good example of

" dharma-yukta desire " can be seen in the life of King Dasharath when he

approaches the sage Vashishtha with a desire of having son. His desire was not

for himself to be called as a father but to give a noble heir for the

kingdom/subjects which was more dearer than his own life. As long as, the

wish/desire is aligned with the supreme wish, it will help us lead to the root

of the supreme wish. Whether we wish/

desire for the benefit of all or have the wish/desire to attain the root of this

wish (i.e. supreme/God ), it will lead us the same goal. We should note that

there is no difference between the Supreme and his wish. The suggestion to

aspirants of " having desire to attain the supreme " (MAAMIPCHHAPTUM -GitaJi

12/10) by the Supreme is nothing but the same supreme wish told from the

perspective of the aspirant. Closure the aspirant is with the

Supreme/SELF/TRUTH, better he understands the supreme wish and he could be

chosen to be the medium ( " NIMITTA

MAATRAM BHAV SAVYASAACHIN " - GitaJi 11/33) of executing that

supreme wish. Some time, the realized souls (e.g. KAARAK PURUSHHA)

descend to follow that supreme wish and some time the Supreme himself

descend to execute his supreme wish (YADAA YADAA HI DHARMASYA

....GitaJi-4/7).

Dear VineetJi, The supreme simply means " nothing is beyond that " . He is called

by infinite names (RAM, KRISHNA, ISHWAR, BHAGAVAAN, PARAMAATMA, PURUSHHOTTAM,

GOD,...). You are correct that his wish can not be sensed by the mind, buddhi

of an unrealized soul but the

question did encourage to reveal the thoughts based upon the

scriptures which are revealed by the supreme self or self-

realized personalities. I did revisit the page 61 of Saadhan-

Sudha-Sindu where " Chup Saadhan " is described. My question was

not about the saadhan for an individual towards his/her

realization but it was about understanding the message/wish

from the Supreme that might include the goals of every beings.Dear

GauravJi, What you mentioned is the general definition of the desire in beings

created out of ignorance/attachment. That desire must

be removed towards realizing the supreme wish/desire. In my

limited understanding, understanding the wish of the master

should be well known by the servant/lover so that he can serve

/love his master better. The mercy of God is not without a

reason. The reason is his intrinsic wish of taking care of all. Dear

PratapJi, His supreme wish is always supported by his Leela (divine play/

celebration) which work without any effort. His Leela is always

blissful but meaningful though the meaning may not be understood

easily.

Dear NarinderJi, The question was about understanding the wish of the supreme

preferably based upon the scriptures. Why scriptures? They are the

authority/PRAMAANA (TASMAAT SHAASTRAM PRAMAANAM TE... GitaJi

16/34). In my understanding, this was the reason the Supreme

revealed the VEDA as an authority apart from creating Brahmins/

Rishhis/Guides/Gurus (BHAMHANASYA TEN VEDAASH ... GitaJi 17/23)

at the beginning of the creation. The scriptures are easily

available teachers/Gurus for everyone. The true realization can

not go against the scriptures although the realization can not

be fully interpreted in the words.

Dear All, if you ask yourself why are you answering the questions in this forum.

I do not know your answers but in my understanding, I

would say this is just because of that intrinsic supreme wish

which takes care of everyone.

May the Supreme bless us all!

Niteesh Dubey

=======================================================

The Supreme person desires only one thing that HIS child comes

back to HIS home...

Komal.Chhabria

-------------------------------

Shree Paramatmane Namah

If by the english word " The Supreme " if you mean " Paramatmatattva "

(the Essential Element, Divinity, Truth) , then please share whether

you have understood from Swamiji's writing -

" experientially That Divinity, That Truth is as such already present - IS "

(Saadhan, Sudha, Sindhu pg 61) . Because Paramatma is beyond

description and not the subject of mind/intellect.

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

------------------------------

Hari Om. Shree Hari.

There is one Upanishad mantra that God became many from one for a loving sport .

I don't know what it actually means.What I understand is that my perception of

reality is based on inert matter and body. The true reality is completely

independent of matter and body. Therefore, the truth is beyond our perception

because we can perceive what is beyond matter right now.These questions are

sometimes useless. You are asking about somethingwhich is beyond matter and you

want it to be explained in terms of matter.Desires generally are product of

affinity of self with the matter. As the Self and the Supreme are beyond matter,

they are beyond desires.Our of His causeless mercy, the Supreme appears in front

of us in avatars like Ram, Krishna etc so that we can sing His glories and

realize the Truth.

Regards,

Gaurav Mittal

-------------------------------

The Supreme who is complete by definition will have no desire or wish. Desire or

wish arises from incomopleteness. If there is completeness, there is no scope

for a wish or desire to arise for seeking completeness. The Supreme has every

thing in Him and never feels inadequate. Without any inadequacy, the Supreme has

no need to wish or desire. The Supreme who is complete has everything: He

contains everything in the Creation and is in existence in each and everything

in the Creation. All wishes and desires of everything/ everyone are contained in

Him and He exists in all wishes and desires possible in all creatures. So the

Supreme does not need any desire or wish of his own. That His Creation functions

the way it has been doing and will continue fully satisfies him. With nothing

remaining to be satisfied, the Supreme has no scope for any wish or desire of

His own. Any thing / any one even a little less than Supreme and less than

Complete can only have a wish or desire.To put it differently, all that happens

in this creation is nothing but his wish and desire getting fulfilled.

Basudeb Sen

-------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna.

This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka.The wish of the Supreme for us

is to advance spiritually and attain Him in the end. Lord Krishna clearly

describes in Bhagavad Gita as to what and whom He likes the best. " Yo na hrsyati

na dvesti,Na socati na kankshati,Subhasubha parityagi,Bhaktiman yah sa me

priyah. " (Gitaji 12,17)Which means,'One who does not rejoice or grieve, does not

lament or desire and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious activities,

such a devotee is very dear to Me. 'A devotee does everything and anything, in

the name of the Lord, does not get attached to the results. Lord Krishna's

desire for us is to follow the teachings of Bhagavad Gita. Devotional service in

the form of chanting the Holy Names is clearly the way in this Kali Yuga. Thank

You. Hare Krishna.

Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

----------------------------

Dear sir,

If we all belong to him,then our sankalpas also belong to him.He is the central

reserve of all the sankalpas of jeevas put together.He will allow the sankalpa

to become manifest basing on the quality of it.Hiranya grbha is the true

proposer not we humans

Badri Narayana Miriyala

-

Dear Ones, Namaste!

Supreme is the Completeness, Wholeness, Purnatva, and as such lacks nothing.In

IT, not desire, but spontaneity seems to arise: Then, Intelligence

manifests!Big Bang happens!Love blossoms!Bliss as Peace reins!Joy flows!Beauty

emanates!Creativity overflows!Empty canvasses get painted!Poetry

out-pours!Scriptures speak its glory!Acts of kindness happens!All of these

through Intelligence of ONE Being behind all beings, holding them, manifesting

them while hiding in them! It seems that " doing " without desire is Creativity,

Celebration, Leela which only can happen when one feels/is complete, already

fulfilled even before doing, while doing with desire happens out of lack or

insufficiency to fulfill through " doing " !In the former possibility for

disappointment cannot exist, while the later is filled with disappointments!

Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

- Dear

Sadhakas, Namaskar,To imagine, conceive and understand the purpose of the

Creation and Existence of this Cosmos...Vishwa...is beyond the limits of human

brain...This purpose is the desire or wish of the Creator...Gee Waman

-------------------------

The Desire of Brahaman The Mystery of Ten Verses and One !Of Brahman , did

Brahman ask ... Lord, Teach me Brahman...To Brahman did Brahman say, ... " Son,

You are Brahman ! " In Joy did Brahman receive ... The Loving instruction of

Brahman..With folded hands did Brahman again submit , " Lord... Lovingly , you

bestow !But Brahman does not understand ! " To the humble Brahman did Brahman

then instruct.. " Your Humility , dear, is the doorway... My first Gift to

you...Through this doorway, then, will you, one day,Receive the knowledge ...

The Knowledge of Brahman ! " Eyes raised to Brahman, the ocean watering the eyes

with Love,Did Brahman , then ask again , " Gifts you bestow... there is no end

.. But the Gift that Brahman wants .Is the gift of Your Self. Your own Self. The

Self " To the seeking Self, Lovingly did Brahman then bestow ... The Great Gift

of Vision. The Vision that is called Meditation.In this Meditation, did Brahman

sit for YugasFor Yugas , did Brahman take asana... Yugas... " Yugas was only a

word... Silence the Word's Being .And Lo ! Time was No More,What was,

wasâ€¦.Only This Moment Now ... Yugas passed ... and Brahman did smile on

Brahman...And Brahman , opened the eyes. Then,to Brahman, lovingly spoke "

Lord, May I call you Krishna ?...Krishna is the sound of Music that vibrates my

soul !Lord, may I sing the song that thrills my Being, Krishna .. Krishna ! Jai

jai Krishna " Krishna ! Krishna ! Krishna indeed am I, Brahman smiled In Joy

indeed, did Brahman smile ! And so ! To Brahman did Brahman Bow ! " Krishna ..

You are Brahman indeed !! " In Ten verses, Did Krishna sing. Sing of the Glory of

Brahman! In Ten, did Brahman receive, Receive the Song of krishna's Being ! The

Ten were only One. The One-ness of Silence of Being. The Silence, which will

Keep singing ... In Ten verses,the glory of Being ! The teaching said Brahman to

Brahman... Easy it is.This teaching of Mine . Easy as easy can Be ! But to the

non willing, The teaching will ever remain A Mystery... The Mystery of Being !

It would be good if those thoughts are supported by the holy

scriptures..................Niteesh Dubey ah Beloved, which could be a greater

Scripture what could be more Holythan the heart in Silence of Love and, the

Being revelling in that Silence ........... ah !

AUM narinder bhandari

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February 27, 2010

Shree Hari Ram RamWe are once again having trouble with mail formatting... We apologize. GitaTalk Moderators,Ram Ram----------------------------Jai Shri HariDear Saadhaks,Please reveal your thoughts about whether the supreme who is ever complete hasany wish/desire (although the word "desire" many not be suitable). It would begood if those thoughts are supported by the holy scriptures.My God bless us all!Niteesh Dubey-----------------------------NEW POSTING

God has created man only for love - "ekaaki ne ramate." (Cannot delight being all alone). Thererfore manifestation of love can only take place in human beings. Of all the species in this world, only human beings are capable of saying "you are mine and I am yours" or "there is you and you alone" (Tu hi Tu). The reason is that God has created this world for all beings, but he has created man for Himself. God has bestowed man with the ability and the power to regard Him as his own and to discard the world. It is only by the ability and power bestowed by God, that man can love God.

From "For Salvation of Mankind" in English pg 195 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

A devotee fulfills God's inner feelings and expressions of "Ekaakine ramate". God has created the world for His devotees, and the devotees forHimself. Therefore a devotees' existence was created only for pleasing God. In reality, the enjoyer of all happiness is only God, not the embodied Soul(jeev). Just like a child is for the mother, similarly the devotee is for God. Besides God, a devotee has no independent existence (no existence of his own).From "Prashnouttermanimala" on Devotee by Swami Ramsukhdasji

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Jai Shri Hari, Dear All, I thank you for your responses.It is absolutely true that BhagavaanJi who is everything and all powerful can do anything just by his sankalp/will and he has been doing from eternity but his only weakness is that he can not turn his child (i.e.embodied soul) towards himself unless the child accepts that move. The reason for this is that the Jeev (i.e. embodied soul) itself is holding the self created artificiality/affinity with the lower nature of the Supreme (GitaJi-7/5) and both of the natures (i.e. jeev/higher/PARAA and the lower/APARAA) are empowered by the Supreme and the Supreme, being equal (GitaJi- 5/19), can never do any injustice to any one. It is solely the jeev's responsibility to accept that move. Being SUHRID/friend (GitaJi-5/29), he can only wish and suggest (UDDHARET - GitaJi 6/5) the jeev for that move. Had he ever be capable of turning a jeev for that move without jeev's acceptance, there would not have been the need of this world, Scriptures, Saints, Dharmas etc..All these are available for us just because of his eternel wish of benefit/kalyaan for all his children. My dear brothers & sisters, nothing is meaningless in our father's kingdom. All his wills/sankalps are following his eternal wish of welfare of all. We should note that the will/sankalp to do something always follows a wish and not the other way.Our Supreme father is also known as "SHIVA" which means "KALYAAN/welfare" (i.e. our father's nature/SWAROOP is for the welfare/KALYAAN of all). Shri ShankaraachaaryaJi says in ATMAASTAKAM that "I am CHIT/consciousness , ANAND/bliss and KALYAAN/welfare" ( CHIDAANANDROOPAM SHIVOHAM SHIVOHAM). In other words, living in the the eternal supreme wish of welfare of all is not different from living in the self which is consciousness and bliss.Dear DeosaranJi, Regarding your sentence "The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart. 0 Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities.- GITA 18:61)", the Supreme/God/Ishwar is NOT directing the wanderings of all living entities, the wandering is happening by the MAAYAA (please note the word "MAAYAYAA" in that shloka) which is empowered by the Supreme. The reason of this wandering is not the MAAYAA/prakriti/nature but the jeev itself which has been trying to enjoy the qualities/products of MAAYAA/prakriti/nature.May the Supreme bless us all.Niteesh Dubey

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Dear NarinderJi, The question was about understanding the wish of the supreme preferably based upon the scriptures. Why scriptures? They are the authority/PRAMAANA (TASMAAT SHAASTRAM PRAMAANAM TE... GitaJi 16/34). In my understanding, this was the reason the Supreme revealed the VEDA as an authority apart from creating Brahmins/Rishhis/Guides/ Gurus (BHAMHANASYA TEN VEDAASH ... GitaJi 17/23) at the beginning of the creation. The scriptures are easily available teachers/Gurus for everyone. The true realization can not go against the scriptures although the realization can not be fully interpreted in the words. Dear All, if you ask yourself why are you answering the questions in this forum. I do not know your answers but in my understanding, I would say this is just because of that intrinsic supreme wish which takes care of everyone.May the Supreme bless us all! ...........................Niteesh Dubey

dear Niteesh Dubey jee,

thank you for your deep thoughts .............what you say is True.............. there is NO disagreement in narinder.................

the sharing is all Krishna's Play ....................we all have our lines to say ...............

why does narinder answer the questions raised in this forum? his totally honest answer is , " I donot know ! "

and the more questions and answers i become aware of reading or answering ............... the deeper becomes narinder's awareness that he indeed does NOT know !

But ................there is also deep awareness of Stillness, of Silence, of the Ocean that keeps waving for its own Joy ....

and ah, naga narayana jeeo.................why is it so ? how is it so..... and why must it be so ? how can narinder know ?

aum the waves keep rising ....arise only to subside ...first, second and the last are born to die ...and in the embrace of the Ocean lie the ocean smiles ................... smiles and smiles ...............and keeps smiling ........................... Tat Twam Asi , you are the Ocean , narinder, says the Mind Aham Brahamasmi, I know, says the heart ah, how can the wave fathom the Ocean ! ? ! the Ocean smiles and smiles ...and knows the Mind is a lie, but the heart never lies .................... are you the Mind , narinder , or, the heart are you ? both, or , neither ................ the Ocean are you ..................???? the Ocean is the wave the wave is Not the Ocean only the Self knows the self how can the other know ? how can nari or narinder know !