Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Sir, Hare Krishna, I am devotee of Lord Krishna Some times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religious places I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the god did not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc. Give me a satisfactory reply. Vijay Vyas Jaipur---------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma) Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic? /message/2631 Doubts about Existence of God ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be No Justice? How long to continue with this struggle?/message/3043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Shree Hari Ram Ram We have problems with formatting once again. Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---- Sir, Hare Krishna, I am devotee of Lord Krishna Some times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religious places I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the god did not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc. Give me a satisfactory reply. Vijay Vyas Jaipur --------------------- NEW POSTING God replied to this thing Himself long ago. No one gets killed, no one was ever born. Everything existed ceasely in God: only the forms change. There is nothing to save as no one gets killed or can be killed: only physical bodies transform.With this reply in Gita, God satisfies me, but this reply may not satisfy many others. Basudeb Sen --------------------------- -Shree Hari- Namaste! Dear Vijay Vyas, Before I comment I like to remind you of Srimadbhagavadgiti 12:8: Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on me alone; there upon thou shalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt, about it. A comment of Swamiji on this in sadhaka-Sanjivani, 'Fix your mind on Me-it means, that the mind should be diverted from the thought of the world to God,.........'. Getting back to you questions, firstly it is good that you realize that all who worship, are worshiping Him. But instead of fixing your mind on Bhagwan, you are, by the very nature of your question fixing it upon the world! 'If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.' I suspect if one follows these instructions (B.G. 12:8) of the Supreme Lord, then such a question would not occur. Take it one step further, what about all those who do not attend places of worship, but love The Beloved, with all their soul, where do they stand in your eyes? Jesus was asked a similar question about when will the Kingdom come, Jesus replied to the affect that it has come and it is among you, but you see it not. All of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, tells you that the Supreme Lord is here and among us all, to read and acknowledge this chapter, will eliminate, 'If there is god then god must come..............' Om... Shant... Mike (K). ------- The Gita is all about fighting for Dharma, and Krishna invokes Arjun to fight..We have to do our karma and fight the enemies. Dilip Bhagat ------------------------- Shree Paramatmane Namah Whatever happens, happens according to the ordainment of the law If a bomb blasts, and those that came into it's clutches are bound to be killedWhat can Paramatma (God) do about this? To my knowledge, Paramatma (God) has not said that I will not allow my devotees to beever killed. If it was such, then there would be only devotees today. We would not see any atheists around. People want that instead of risks and dangers, to not leave at all then only they will be safe. To place your hand in fire and then to not expect to be burnt is not possible at all. Whether the hand is of a devotee or an atheist. So be it, Vineet Sarvottam - Shree Hari Ram Ram God is saving us every moment. We do not pay attention to His grace. We do not accept His grace. Prayers never go unanswered.He is all compassionate. There is no one more compassionate than God. If we are " nirbal " (helpless/ powerless) and call out to Him, He will surely come to our rescue, just like He did with Draupadi and Gajjendra. Let us pray with sincere heart and sentiments (bhava) to protect the helplesss - Cows / unborn children / animals / young children / women / other helpless creatures etc. Surely the prayers will be answered. Let us see His grace in every situation. Meera Das, Ram Ram --------------------- " I am devotee of Lord Krishna … Some times I doubt whether god is there or not? " It is a very truthful dilemma most of us suffer from … self contradiction of " I am a devotee to The God; but I have serious doubts whether He exists or not " permeates to one's perception because of one's desperation to vanquish the fears within while incapable of satiating the desires inculcated from around. One does not realize the self contradiction in the faith and doubt indoctrinated into one's core existence being perpetually swayed in the storms of fears and desires. " I am a devotee of god " ... One wishes that there exists a " god " so that one could be saved in life … to be saved from what? ... from the unknown fears of existence in the ruthless survival in this world. One needs solace to balance the anxiety enseeded by the fears in living ... eventually, the fear of death. Therefore, one makes oneself a " devotee " to a " god " in a desperate hope that some great invincible force would save the fearful soul somehow. We build idles and temples for the gods parying in fear with such hope. Do we have any clue of either the God or the Devotion here?! Devotion and god are mostly the notions of convenience and consolation here; not of any conviction! " I doubt whether god is there or not " … Why such contradiction raises from within? We pray an invincible force " created " as a figment in our imagination as a " god " to save us. As we pray to such a " god " , we start believing that we are obligating that " god " with our favors in terms of our worships and prayers. The delusion deepens as our belief in our own figment of imagination starts reinforcing itself and we start expecting the that " god " should save us in return. As the delusion spreads its tentacles within, the expectation becomes our right. But, the notion of god that is as meek as the imagination as such cannot help in anyway except to delude the fellow further. The disappointed and dillusioned fellow starts doubting a " god " without realizing that the notion of such a " god " came from one's own illusions in the desperate and urgeful moments of survival. One never doubts how incompatible is this notion to the laws of survival because one took this shelter in an attempt to escape from the wrath of survival. Praying is a favor to the so called devotee as the intent is to attain the peace within. Instead, if one starts bargaining with an unknown force for a return of favor, one is bound to be disillusioned! Temples are built to provide such an ambience for everyone to attain peace ... but the notionally biased fellows spoil the ambience being swayed by the conflicting notions for and against the same ... few fellows build them ... and few fellows destroy them .... both the acts are as notional as they are ... what do these ignorant acts of desolate human creatures to do with The God anyway?! Therefore, my dear friend, my sincere suggestion to you is to cleanup your reasons for appreciating " The God " . In my understanding, THE GOD remains a notion untill you harbor any specific " benefit " from the same … and. Then, you are bound to be disillusioned into the corresponding doubts. Respects. Naga Narayana. ----------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Please review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma) Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic? /message/2631 Doubts about Existence of God ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be No Justice? How long to continue with this struggle?/message/3043 --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Sir,Hare Krishna,I am devotee of Lord KrishnaSome times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religiousplaces I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the goddid not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must comeand save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.Vijay VyasJaipur---------------------NEW POSTING Ram Ram The person who asks this question does not know God. He does not even believe in God. He does not know the meaning of God – and neither does he know the meaning of a devotee. Ramkrishna Ram Ram -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has said that when you read the life stories of many great Saints, you will see that they have experienced many hardships. In situations when you are harassed, people do not listen to you, people scold you, they are mean to you, your health is failing, you are unemployed etc., all of these situations are nothing but in your favor. From a devotee's perspective, they are cleansing, purifying. There is lot to gain from unfavorable situations (pratikultaa).A Devotee is one who accepts all situations, including unfavorable situations are God's grace. A devotee's pespective is - this situation has been sent by God for our betterment and our spiritual growth. It may be difficult to bare unfavorable situations, during the time that one is going through it, but at all times know that there is immense gain in these situations. Let us at all times see His grace, see the cleansing taking place and remain ever joyful. (you may want to listen to swamiji's lecture in hindi Sept 2, 1992 at 5:00 pm, but date selection and downloading http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/ Meera Das, Ram Ram --------- FROM ANOTHER POSTING.... Dear Sadaks,Pakkad Baba/Pagal Baba, Sri Shirdi Sai Baba, Hariram Baba, Gyaneswar, Sakubai, Meera Bai and so many numerous divine personalities had HIGH sufferings. But they never seem to lament over it. Some saints were beaten up for absolutely NO fault of theirs. But all of them were in happiness. How? B.Sathyanarayan ---------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!I would stay away from making such judgments on "others" or "God". let us have a solid foundation of Honesty, Truth, and Devotion! Emphasis should be on living righteously, doing one's fair share, using mind-body's ability to serve fellow human beings! Only such an attitude brings joy and conflict free life, and inner strength and faith. Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt ------------ It is very selfish that we see God's grace when we receive favorable situation,but we dont thank God when unfavorable situations arises.we must always thank god for all the situations.Raja Gurdasani -------------------------------At some point we realize that whether we praise Him or curse Him, we will get only that is destined for us as per God's -the creator's scheme that determines what happens where, when and with what consequences on whom. Then, we know that whether we praise God or curse Him is also not our independent action but in accordance with our destiny as it works out as per the Laws or Principles that governs the entire creation. Whatever we do is whatever we are destined to do as per the properties of DNA/ RNA/Gins/ moleculars cells and atoms that we are made off in different combinations and their interactions over time. Then, we finally realize that the only way we can always be in peace and happiness is to identify an inner core that is within each of us as one and the same and nothing but the knowledge of the Basic Law or Principle that keeps the entire creation going as the way it does. We call that Atman / Paramatman/ God and identify ourselves with that God. We become one with God. God is what works without break, witrhout desire, without ego all the time. Some of us who are destined that way, we just try to find out if we can live like that: without desire, without ego and without jealuasy and with complete equanimity.Only a rare few are destined that way. That we worry that we are looking selfish, is because that is the design of God and we cannot escape that unless we are destined that way. Basudeb Sen ---God replied to this thing Himself long ago. No one gets killed, no one was everborn. Everything existed ceasely in God: only the forms change. There is nothingto save as no one gets killed or can be killed: only physical bodiestransform.With this reply in Gita, God satisfies me, but this reply may notsatisfy many others.Basudeb Sen----------------------------Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Vijay Vyas,Before I comment I like to remind you of Srimadbhagavadgiti 12:8:Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on me alone; there upon thoushalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt, about it.A comment of Swamiji on this in sadhaka-Sanjivani, 'Fix your mind on Me-itmeans, that the mind should be diverted from the thought of the world toGod,.........'.Getting back to you questions, firstly it is good that you realize that all whoworship, are worshiping Him.But instead of fixing your mind on Bhagwan, you are, by the very nature of yourquestion fixing it upon the world!'If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray inmosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.'I suspect if one follows these instructions (B.G. 12:8) of the Supreme Lord,then such a question would not occur.Take it one step further, what about all those who do not attend places ofworship, but love The Beloved, with all their soul, where do theystand in your eyes?Jesus was asked a similar question about when will the Kingdom come, Jesusreplied to the affect that it has come and it is among you, butyou see it not.All of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, tells you that the Supreme Lord is here andamong us all, to read and acknowledge this chapter, willeliminate, 'If there is god then god must come..............'Om... Shant...Mike (K).-------The Gita is all about fighting for Dharma, and Krishna invokes Arjun tofight..We have to do our karma and fight the enemies.Dilip Bhagat-------------------------Shree Paramatmane NamahWhatever happens, happens according to the ordainment of the law If a bombblasts, and those that came into it's clutches are bound to be killedWhat canParamatma (God) do about this? To my knowledge, Paramatma (God) has not saidthat I will not allow my devotees to beever killed. If it was such, then therewould be only devotees today. We would not see any atheists around. People wantthat instead of risks and dangers, to not leave at all then only they will besafe. To place your hand in fire and then to not expect to be burnt is notpossible at all. Whether the hand is of a devotee or an atheist. So be it,Vineet Sarvottam-Shree Hari Ram RamGod is saving us every moment. We do not pay attention to His grace. We do notaccept His grace. Prayers never go unanswered.He is all compassionate. There isno one more compassionate than God. If we are "nirbal" (helpless/ powerless) andcall out to Him, He will surely come to our rescue, just like He did withDraupadi and Gajjendra. Let us pray with sincere heart and sentiments (bhava) toprotect the helplesss - Cows / unborn children / animals / young children /women / other helpless creatures etc. Surely the prayers will be answered. Letus see His grace in every situation.Meera Das, Ram Ram---------------------"I am devotee of Lord Krishna … Some times I doubt whether god is there ornot?"It is a very truthful dilemma most of us suffer from … self contradiction of "Iam a devotee to The God; but I have serious doubts whether He exists or not"permeates to one's perception because of one's desperation to vanquish the fearswithin while incapable of satiating the desires inculcated from around. One doesnot realize the self contradiction in the faith and doubt indoctrinated intoone's core existence being perpetually swayed in the storms of fears anddesires."I am a devotee of god" ... One wishes that there exists a "god" so that onecould be saved in life … to be saved from what? ... from the unknown fears ofexistence in the ruthless survival in this world. One needs solace to balancethe anxiety enseeded by the fears in living ... eventually, the fear of death.Therefore, one makes oneself a "devotee" to a "god" in a desperate hope thatsome great invincible force would save the fearful soul somehow. We build idlesand temples for the gods parying in fear with such hope. Do we have any clue ofeither the God or the Devotion here?! Devotion and god are mostly the notions ofconvenience and consolation here; not of any conviction!"I doubt whether god is there or not" … Why such contradiction raises fromwithin? We pray an invincible force "created" as a figment in our imagination asa "god" to save us. As we pray to such a "god", we start believing that we areobligating that "god" with our favors in terms of our worships and prayers. Thedelusion deepens as our belief in our own figment of imagination startsreinforcing itself and we start expecting the that "god" should save us inreturn. As the delusion spreads its tentacles within, the expectation becomesour right. But, the notion of god that is as meek as the imagination as suchcannot help in anyway except to delude the fellow further. The disappointed anddillusioned fellow starts doubting a "god" without realizing that the notion ofsuch a "god" came from one's own illusions in the desperate and urgeful momentsof survival. One never doubts how incompatible is this notion to the laws ofsurvival because one took this shelter in an attempt to escape from the wrath ofsurvival. Praying is a favor to the so called devotee as the intent is toattain the peace within. Instead, if one starts bargaining with an unknown forcefor a return of favor, one is bound to be disillusioned! Temples are built toprovide such an ambience for everyone to attain peace ... but the notionallybiased fellows spoil the ambience being swayed by the conflicting notions forand against the same ... few fellows build them ... and few fellows destroy them... both the acts are as notional as they are ... what do these ignorant acts ofdesolate human creatures to do with The God anyway?! Therefore, my dearfriend, my sincere suggestion to you is to cleanup your reasons for appreciating"The God". In my understanding, THE GOD remains a notion untill you harbor anyspecific "benefit" from the same … and. Then, you are bound to be disillusionedinto the corresponding doubts.Respects. Naga Narayana.-----------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma)Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic?/message/2631 Doubts about Existence ofGod ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be NoJustice? How long to continue with thisstruggle?/message/3043--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Sir,Hare Krishna,I am devotee of Lord KrishnaSome times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religiousplaces I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the goddid not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must comeand save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.Vijay VyasJaipur---------------------NEW POSTINGshree Paramaatmane nam:Shree Ramkrishnajee! You seem to be knowing what we don't know. Please answer to the following Questions :1. What is God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know God, implying you definitely know God.]2. What ascertains that you believe in God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't believe in God.]3. Tell the meaning of God to all sadhakas here in forum because most of us don't know God who is said to be beyond description by Swamijee, too. [Request made as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know the meaning of God, implying you definitely know it.]Please show us light, we need this knowledge in words.Regards and apology to be so straight to you to know what we don't know.Humbly,Sarvottam.---------------Shree Hari Ram Ram We can only protect / save what is ours. Since we have been unsuccessful in saving/protecting all the bodies that we had in all these life times.. may be it is time to awaken and realize.. "We cannot save what is not ours." The point is that we become without a protector when we consider things that are not ours, as ours. As such, the "ansh" can never be unsafe... it is never apart from the "anshi." Meera Das, Ram Ram ----- Dear sir,I am not any religious expert or 'know it all'. However I will try to answer your question as best as I can. As with any book on religious topics, there are contradictions and people only give importance to certain aspects as per their convenience. However I have found that the Bhagavad Gita is comparatively 'logical' in its ideas.Basic idea of Bhagavad Gita (as I see it) - man must perform action in this world. It is necessary for society and mankind to survive. if people perform actions for selfish reasons and personal gain then in the long term this will lead to chaos, sadness and destruction. The Bhagavad Gita preaches selfless action. Whatever action is performed is for the betterment of mankind and society. However since some 'incentive' is to be provided to man, the incentive is provided by saying that the goal is to attain god or nirvana or escape from cycle of life and death. This can be done only by selfless action. This can be done in the following ways -Bhaktiyog - This is when all action is performed not out of personal gain but out of devotion to god (in my opinion this is for those with lesser education and understanding)Karmayog - (for those with slightly better understanding and education) this is when all action is performed out of a sense of 'duty'. Gyanayog - (for the most intelligent and knowledgeable) this is when a person has knowledge and hence knows what 'needs to be done' for the betterment of society.a lot of importance is given to 'gyan' and becoming 'sthitapragya' in the bhagavad gita. after you become gyani, you will also become 'sthitapragya' where you will be above things like happiness, sadness, profit, loss, victory, defeat etc. In this case your actions are not influenced by such feelings. you do whatever 'needs to be done'. (our problem is that we 'do' everything in life for positive feelings such as happiness, profit, victory and try to avert sadness, loss, defeat. we want to live long and avoid deathbut BG preaches that these are part of life. you have to be above all this). sthitapragya is above all this. (all this is very easy to say and very difficult to practice, but it does make sense)in fact in BG 5:14 and 5:15 - god does not give anyone any ability (or disability) or make anyone do anything, or provide any incentive to do anything or establish any relation between action and consequence. all this is the work of nature. god does not accept responsibility for anyones merit or sin. those who think otherwise are ignorant.I know people will quote 'yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharat........where god will come when things are really bad.however, I think this is basically not in line with the general line of thought in the BG and is a contradiction.A very interesting point to note in the Mahabharat is that in war between the pandavas and kauravs, God (krishna) played the role of a guide and did not 'do' anything directly (such as save the good guys and kill the bad guys and make things easy for all concerned).I hope that this answers your basic question. I strongly recommend reading the entire Mahabharat (not only the BG in isolation)with best regardsShardul KulkarniRam RamThe person who asks this question does not know God. He does not even believe in God. He does not know the meaning of God – and neither does he know the meaning of a devotee.RamkrishnaRam Ram--------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has said that when you read the life stories of many great Saints, you will see that they have experienced many hardships. In situations when you are harassed, people do not listen to you, people scold you, they are mean to you, your health is failing, you are unemployed etc., all of these situations are nothing but in your favor. From a devotee's perspective, they are cleansing, purifying. There is lot to gain from unfavorable situations (pratikultaa).A Devotee is one who accepts all situations, including unfavorable situations are God's grace. A devotee's pespective is - this situation has been sent by God for our betterment and our spiritual growth. It may be difficult to bare unfavorable situations, during the time that one is going through it, but at all times know that there is immense gain in these situations. Let us at all times see His grace, see the cleansing taking place and remain ever joyful. (you may want to listen to swamiji's lecture in hindi Sept 2, 1992 at 5:00 pm, but date selection and downloadinghttp://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/ Meera Das, Ram Ram ---------FROM ANOTHER POSTING.... Dear Sadaks,Pakkad Baba/Pagal Baba, Sri Shirdi Sai Baba, Hariram Baba, Gyaneswar, Sakubai, Meera Bai and so many numerous divine personalities had HIGH sufferings. But they never seem to lament over it. Some saints were beaten up for absolutely NO fault of theirs. But all of them were in happiness. How? B.Sathyanarayan ----------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!I would stay away from making such judgments on "others" or "God". let us have a solid foundation of Honesty, Truth, and Devotion! Emphasis should be on living righteously, doing one's fair share, using mind-body's ability to serve fellow human beings! Only such an attitude brings joy and conflict free life, and inner strength and faith. Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt------------It is very selfish that we see God's grace when we receive favorable situation,but we dont thank God when unfavorable situations arises.we must always thank god for all the situations.Raja Gurdasani-------------------------------At some point we realize that whether we praise Him or curse Him, we will get only that is destined for us as per God's -the creator's scheme that determines what happens where, when and with what consequences on whom. Then, we know that whether we praise God or curse Him is also not our independent action but in accordance with our destiny as it works out as per the Laws or Principles that governs the entire creation. Whatever we do is whatever we are destined to do as per the properties of DNA/ RNA/Gins/ moleculars cells and atoms that we are made off in different combinations and their interactions over time. Then, we finally realize that the only way we can always be in peace and happiness is to identify an inner core that is within each of us as one and the same and nothing but the knowledge of the Basic Law or Principle that keeps the entire creation going as the way it does. We call that Atman / Paramatman/ God and identify ourselves with that God. We become one with God. God is what works without break, witrhout desire, without ego all the time. Some of us who are destined that way, we just try to find out if we can live like that: without desire, without ego and without jealuasy and with complete equanimity.Only a rare few are destined that way.That we worry that we are looking selfish, is because that is the design of God and we cannot escape that unless we are destined that way.Basudeb Sen---God replied to this thing Himself long ago. No one gets killed, no one was everborn. Everything existed ceasely in God: only the forms change. There is nothingto save as no one gets killed or can be killed: only physical bodiestransform.With this reply in Gita, God satisfies me, but this reply may notsatisfy many others.Basudeb Sen----------------------------Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Vijay Vyas,Before I comment I like to remind you of Srimadbhagavadgiti 12:8:Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on me alone; there upon thoushalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt, about it.A comment of Swamiji on this in sadhaka-Sanjivani, 'Fix your mind on Me-itmeans, that the mind should be diverted from the thought of the world toGod,.........'.Getting back to you questions, firstly it is good that you realize that all whoworship, are worshiping Him.But instead of fixing your mind on Bhagwan, you are, by the very nature of yourquestion fixing it upon the world!'If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray inmosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.'I suspect if one follows these instructions (B.G. 12:8) of the Supreme Lord,then such a question would not occur.Take it one step further, what about all those who do not attend places ofworship, but love The Beloved, with all their soul, where do theystand in your eyes?Jesus was asked a similar question about when will the Kingdom come, Jesusreplied to the affect that it has come and it is among you, butyou see it not.All of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, tells you that the Supreme Lord is here andamong us all, to read and acknowledge this chapter, willeliminate, 'If there is god then god must come..............'Om... Shant...Mike (K).-------The Gita is all about fighting for Dharma, and Krishna invokes Arjun tofight..We have to do our karma and fight the enemies.Dilip Bhagat-------------------------Shree Paramatmane NamahWhatever happens, happens according to the ordainment of the law If a bombblasts, and those that came into it's clutches are bound to be killedWhat canParamatma (God) do about this? To my knowledge, Paramatma (God) has not saidthat I will not allow my devotees to beever killed. If it was such, then therewould be only devotees today. We would not see any atheists around. People wantthat instead of risks and dangers, to not leave at all then only they will besafe. To place your hand in fire and then to not expect to be burnt is notpossible at all. Whether the hand is of a devotee or an atheist. So be it,Vineet Sarvottam-Shree Hari Ram RamGod is saving us every moment. We do not pay attention to His grace. We do notaccept His grace. Prayers never go unanswered.He is all compassionate. There isno one more compassionate than God. If we are "nirbal" (helpless/ powerless) andcall out to Him, He will surely come to our rescue, just like He did withDraupadi and Gajjendra. Let us pray with sincere heart and sentiments (bhava) toprotect the helplesss - Cows / unborn children / animals / young children /women / other helpless creatures etc. Surely the prayers will be answered. Letus see His grace in every situation.Meera Das, Ram Ram---------------------"I am devotee of Lord Krishna … Some times I doubt whether god is there ornot?"It is a very truthful dilemma most of us suffer from … self contradiction of "Iam a devotee to The God; but I have serious doubts whether He exists or not"permeates to one's perception because of one's desperation to vanquish the fearswithin while incapable of satiating the desires inculcated from around. One doesnot realize the self contradiction in the faith and doubt indoctrinated intoone's core existence being perpetually swayed in the storms of fears anddesires."I am a devotee of god" ... One wishes that there exists a "god" so that onecould be saved in life … to be saved from what? ... from the unknown fears ofexistence in the ruthless survival in this world. One needs solace to balancethe anxiety enseeded by the fears in living ... eventually, the fear of death.Therefore, one makes oneself a "devotee" to a "god" in a desperate hope thatsome great invincible force would save the fearful soul somehow. We build idlesand temples for the gods parying in fear with such hope. Do we have any clue ofeither the God or the Devotion here?! Devotion and god are mostly the notions ofconvenience and consolation here; not of any conviction!"I doubt whether god is there or not" … Why such contradiction raises fromwithin? We pray an invincible force "created" as a figment in our imagination asa "god" to save us. As we pray to such a "god", we start believing that we areobligating that "god" with our favors in terms of our worships and prayers. Thedelusion deepens as our belief in our own figment of imagination startsreinforcing itself and we start expecting the that "god" should save us inreturn. As the delusion spreads its tentacles within, the expectation becomesour right. But, the notion of god that is as meek as the imagination as suchcannot help in anyway except to delude the fellow further. The disappointed anddillusioned fellow starts doubting a "god" without realizing that the notion ofsuch a "god" came from one's own illusions in the desperate and urgeful momentsof survival. One never doubts how incompatible is this notion to the laws ofsurvival because one took this shelter in an attempt to escape from the wrath ofsurvival. Praying is a favor to the so called devotee as the intent is toattain the peace within. Instead, if one starts bargaining with an unknown forcefor a return of favor, one is bound to be disillusioned! Temples are built toprovide such an ambience for everyone to attain peace ... but the notionallybiased fellows spoil the ambience being swayed by the conflicting notions forand against the same ... few fellows build them ... and few fellows destroy them... both the acts are as notional as they are ... what do these ignorant acts ofdesolate human creatures to do with The God anyway?! Therefore, my dearfriend, my sincere suggestion to you is to cleanup your reasons for appreciating"The God". In my understanding, THE GOD remains a notion untill you harbor anyspecific "benefit" from the same … and. Then, you are bound to be disillusionedinto the corresponding doubts.Respects. Naga Narayana.-----------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma)Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic?/message/2631 Doubts about Existence ofGod ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be NoJustice? How long to continue with this struggle?/message/3043--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Sir,Hare Krishna,I am devotee of Lord KrishnaSome times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religiousplaces I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the goddid not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must comeand save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.Vijay VyasJaipur---------------------NEW POSTING Dear Sadhak You must be knowing the law of Karma and hence it so happens God always guides us but the power of determination is given to human beings so we can not say any thing bad about Him If we have love and faith for God then we are always in His hands S S Bhatt --------Shree Hari Ram Ram God is TRUTH (REAL, SAT). Truth cannot lie. God says in Gita 9/22 - He will look after His devotees in all respects (Gita 9/22). He safeguards what they have, and provides for what they need. What more can we ask? All we have to do is accept Him, to have FAITH in HIS GRACE. Let us CALL on HIM !!! Hey Naath! Hey Naath! Mein Bhoolon Nahin ! Meera Das, Ram Ram --------------------- Hari OmDear Mr Vijay VyasOn one hand...There are 9 big holes in body and 90 million small holes in body. On other hand ...air is a subtle element ...very very thin . It can slip out from a minutest of minute holes. You are alive because of air (breaths) operating in body. Now what is the surprise ? Is it surprising that we are alive or is it more surprising that inspite of so many gates in body, the air is still operating rhythmatically in body and we are still alive ? Look at the Grace of God ! Inspite of there being so many exit points for air to run away ...we are alive. Still have doubts on His existence?Why don't you look at incidences referred by you as Law of Karma operating in life ...based on the deeds done by the humans in the past? Why you were not involved in those incidences ? Nothing is by chance ! Nothing is caused by Paramatma !! Gunas are interplaying among themselves. Karmas are converting into results. What God can do there? How do you judge some one's innocence or evilness? How can you say as to whether the deceased/sufferring souls are north bound or south bound? Do you think that those deceased still have complaints vis-a-vis Paramatma? Do you think that those who sufferred are not being taken care of, till their appointed tenure here or elsewhere ? How can you think about that for which you know nothing ? It is all Leela...a movie running in front of you...so that you see inside yourself and do not indulge in prohibited karmas...so that you never become too confident and dis-respect the mercy of God upon you...so that you are aware of sheer ruthlessness with which Law of Karma strikes back...so that you never underestimate the results of sins....so that you get opportunity to conduct yourself in a sadhak's way...so that you learn how to help sufferring fellow humans....so that you understand why Jagat is called dukhalayam...so that you are fearful of the very association with Jagat with selfish motives...so that you understand what is "selfless service"...so that you understand what is compassion...so that you may develop an indifference to connection with Jagat ...so that you wake up and run towards the Loving arms of Paramatma...!!! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------------- shree Paramaatmane nam: Shree Ramkrishnajee! You seem to be knowing what we don't know. Please answer to the following Questions : 1. What is God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know God, implying you definitely know God.] 2. What ascertains that you believe in God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't believe in God.] 3. Tell the meaning of God to all sadhakas here in forum because most of us don't know God who is said to be beyond description by Swamijee, too. [Request made as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know the meaning of God, implying you definitely know it.] Please show us light, we need this knowledge in words. Regards and apology to be so straight to you to know what we don't know. Humbly, Sarvottam. --------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram We can only protect / save what is ours. Since we have been unsuccessful in saving/protecting all the bodies that we had in all these life times.. may be it is time to awaken and realize.. "We cannot save what is not ours." The point is that we become without a protector when we consider things that are not ours, as ours. As such, the "ansh" can never be unsafe... it is never apart from the "anshi." Meera Das, Ram Ram ----- Dear sir,I am not any religious expert or 'know it all'. However I will try to answer your question as best as I can. As with any book on religious topics, there are contradictions and people only give importance to certain aspects as per their convenience. However I have found that the Bhagavad Gita is comparatively 'logical' in its ideas.Basic idea of Bhagavad Gita (as I see it) - man must perform action in this world. It is necessary for society and mankind to survive. if people perform actions for selfish reasons and personal gain then in the long term this will lead to chaos, sadness and destruction. The Bhagavad Gita preaches selfless action. Whatever action is performed is for the betterment of mankind and society. However since some 'incentive' is to be provided to man, the incentive is provided by saying that the goal is to attain god or nirvana or escape from cycle of life and death. This can be done only by selfless action. This can be done in the following ways -Bhaktiyog - This is when all action is performed not out of personal gain but out of devotion to god (in my opinion this is for those with lesser education and understanding)Karmayog - (for those with slightly better understanding and education) this is when all action is performed out of a sense of 'duty'. Gyanayog - (for the most intelligent and knowledgeable) this is when a person has knowledge and hence knows what 'needs to be done' for the betterment of society.a lot of importance is given to 'gyan' and becoming 'sthitapragya' in the bhagavad gita. after you become gyani, you will also become 'sthitapragya' where you will be above things like happiness, sadness, profit, loss, victory, defeat etc. In this case your actions are not influenced by such feelings. you do whatever 'needs to be done'. (our problem is that we 'do' everything in life for positive feelings such as happiness, profit, victory and try to avert sadness, loss, defeat. we want to live long and avoid deathbut BG preaches that these are part of life. you have to be above all this). sthitapragya is above all this. (all this is very easy to say and very difficult to practice, but it does make sense)in fact in BG 5:14 and 5:15 - god does not give anyone any ability (or disability) or make anyone do anything, or provide any incentive to do anything or establish any relation between action and consequence. all this is the work of nature. god does not accept responsibility for anyones merit or sin. those who think otherwise are ignorant.I know people will quote 'yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharat........where god will come when things are really bad.however, I think this is basically not in line with the general line of thought in the BG and is a contradiction.A very interesting point to note in the Mahabharat is that in war between the pandavas and kauravs, God (krishna) played the role of a guide and did not 'do' anything directly (such as save the good guys and kill the bad guys and make things easy for all concerned).I hope that this answers your basic question. I strongly recommend reading the entire Mahabharat (not only the BG in isolation)with best regardsShardul Kulkarni Ram Ram The person who asks this question does not know God. He does not even believe in God. He does not know the meaning of God – and neither does he know the meaning of a devotee. Ramkrishna Ram Ram -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has said that when you read the life stories of many great Saints, you will see that they have experienced many hardships. In situations when you are harassed, people do not listen to you, people scold you, they are mean to you, your health is failing, you are unemployed etc., all of these situations are nothing but in your favor. From a devotee's perspective, they are cleansing, purifying. There is lot to gain from unfavorable situations (pratikultaa).A Devotee is one who accepts all situations, including unfavorable situations are God's grace. A devotee's pespective is - this situation has been sent by God for our betterment and our spiritual growth. It may be difficult to bare unfavorable situations, during the time that one is going through it, but at all times know that there is immense gain in these situations. Let us at all times see His grace, see the cleansing taking place and remain ever joyful. (you may want to listen to swamiji's lecture in hindi Sept 2, 1992 at 5:00 pm, but date selection and downloading http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/ Meera Das, Ram Ram --------- FROM ANOTHER POSTING.... Dear Sadaks,Pakkad Baba/Pagal Baba, Sri Shirdi Sai Baba, Hariram Baba, Gyaneswar, Sakubai, Meera Bai and so many numerous divine personalities had HIGH sufferings. But they never seem to lament over it. Some saints were beaten up for absolutely NO fault of theirs. But all of them were in happiness. How? B.Sathyanarayan ---------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!I would stay away from making such judgments on "others" or "God". let us have a solid foundation of Honesty, Truth, and Devotion! Emphasis should be on living righteously, doing one's fair share, using mind-body's ability to serve fellow human beings! Only such an attitude brings joy and conflict free life, and inner strength and faith. Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt ------------ It is very selfish that we see God's grace when we receive favorable situation,but we dont thank God when unfavorable situations arises.we must always thank god for all the situations.Raja Gurdasani -------------------------------At some point we realize that whether we praise Him or curse Him, we will get only that is destined for us as per God's -the creator's scheme that determines what happens where, when and with what consequences on whom. Then, we know that whether we praise God or curse Him is also not our independent action but in accordance with our destiny as it works out as per the Laws or Principles that governs the entire creation. Whatever we do is whatever we are destined to do as per the properties of DNA/ RNA/Gins/ moleculars cells and atoms that we are made off in different combinations and their interactions over time. Then, we finally realize that the only way we can always be in peace and happiness is to identify an inner core that is within each of us as one and the same and nothing but the knowledge of the Basic Law or Principle that keeps the entire creation going as the way it does. We call that Atman / Paramatman/ God and identify ourselves with that God. We become one with God. God is what works without break, witrhout desire, without ego all the time. Some of us who are destined that way, we just try to find out if we can live like that: without desire, without ego and without jealuasy and with complete equanimity.Only a rare few are destined that way. That we worry that we are looking selfish, is because that is the design of God and we cannot escape that unless we are destined that way. Basudeb Sen ---God replied to this thing Himself long ago. No one gets killed, no one was everborn. Everything existed ceasely in God: only the forms change. There is nothingto save as no one gets killed or can be killed: only physical bodiestransform.With this reply in Gita, God satisfies me, but this reply may notsatisfy many others.Basudeb Sen----------------------------Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Vijay Vyas,Before I comment I like to remind you of Srimadbhagavadgiti 12:8:Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on me alone; there upon thoushalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt, about it.A comment of Swamiji on this in sadhaka-Sanjivani, 'Fix your mind on Me-itmeans, that the mind should be diverted from the thought of the world toGod,.........'.Getting back to you questions, firstly it is good that you realize that all whoworship, are worshiping Him.But instead of fixing your mind on Bhagwan, you are, by the very nature of yourquestion fixing it upon the world!'If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray inmosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.'I suspect if one follows these instructions (B.G. 12:8) of the Supreme Lord,then such a question would not occur.Take it one step further, what about all those who do not attend places ofworship, but love The Beloved, with all their soul, where do theystand in your eyes?Jesus was asked a similar question about when will the Kingdom come, Jesusreplied to the affect that it has come and it is among you, butyou see it not.All of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, tells you that the Supreme Lord is here andamong us all, to read and acknowledge this chapter, willeliminate, 'If there is god then god must come..............'Om... Shant...Mike (K).-------The Gita is all about fighting for Dharma, and Krishna invokes Arjun tofight..We have to do our karma and fight the enemies.Dilip Bhagat-------------------------Shree Paramatmane NamahWhatever happens, happens according to the ordainment of the law If a bombblasts, and those that came into it's clutches are bound to be killedWhat canParamatma (God) do about this? To my knowledge, Paramatma (God) has not saidthat I will not allow my devotees to beever killed. If it was such, then therewould be only devotees today. We would not see any atheists around. People wantthat instead of risks and dangers, to not leave at all then only they will besafe. To place your hand in fire and then to not expect to be burnt is notpossible at all. Whether the hand is of a devotee or an atheist. So be it,Vineet Sarvottam-Shree Hari Ram RamGod is saving us every moment. We do not pay attention to His grace. We do notaccept His grace. Prayers never go unanswered.He is all compassionate. There isno one more compassionate than God. If we are "nirbal" (helpless/ powerless) andcall out to Him, He will surely come to our rescue, just like He did withDraupadi and Gajjendra. Let us pray with sincere heart and sentiments (bhava) toprotect the helplesss - Cows / unborn children / animals / young children /women / other helpless creatures etc. Surely the prayers will be answered. Letus see His grace in every situation.Meera Das, Ram Ram---------------------"I am devotee of Lord Krishna … Some times I doubt whether god is there ornot?"It is a very truthful dilemma most of us suffer from … self contradiction of "Iam a devotee to The God; but I have serious doubts whether He exists or not"permeates to one's perception because of one's desperation to vanquish the fearswithin while incapable of satiating the desires inculcated from around. One doesnot realize the self contradiction in the faith and doubt indoctrinated intoone's core existence being perpetually swayed in the storms of fears anddesires."I am a devotee of god" ... One wishes that there exists a "god" so that onecould be saved in life … to be saved from what? ... from the unknown fears ofexistence in the ruthless survival in this world. One needs solace to balancethe anxiety enseeded by the fears in living ... eventually, the fear of death.Therefore, one makes oneself a "devotee" to a "god" in a desperate hope thatsome great invincible force would save the fearful soul somehow. We build idlesand temples for the gods parying in fear with such hope. Do we have any clue ofeither the God or the Devotion here?! Devotion and god are mostly the notions ofconvenience and consolation here; not of any conviction!"I doubt whether god is there or not" … Why such contradiction raises fromwithin? We pray an invincible force "created" as a figment in our imagination asa "god" to save us. As we pray to such a "god", we start believing that we areobligating that "god" with our favors in terms of our worships and prayers. Thedelusion deepens as our belief in our own figment of imagination startsreinforcing itself and we start expecting the that "god" should save us inreturn. As the delusion spreads its tentacles within, the expectation becomesour right. But, the notion of god that is as meek as the imagination as suchcannot help in anyway except to delude the fellow further. The disappointed anddillusioned fellow starts doubting a "god" without realizing that the notion ofsuch a "god" came from one's own illusions in the desperate and urgeful momentsof survival. One never doubts how incompatible is this notion to the laws ofsurvival because one took this shelter in an attempt to escape from the wrath ofsurvival. Praying is a favor to the so called devotee as the intent is toattain the peace within. Instead, if one starts bargaining with an unknown forcefor a return of favor, one is bound to be disillusioned! Temples are built toprovide such an ambience for everyone to attain peace ... but the notionallybiased fellows spoil the ambience being swayed by the conflicting notions forand against the same ... few fellows build them ... and few fellows destroy them... both the acts are as notional as they are ... what do these ignorant acts ofdesolate human creatures to do with The God anyway?! Therefore, my dearfriend, my sincere suggestion to you is to cleanup your reasons for appreciating"The God". In my understanding, THE GOD remains a notion untill you harbor anyspecific "benefit" from the same … and. Then, you are bound to be disillusionedinto the corresponding doubts.Respects. Naga Narayana.-----------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma)Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic?/message/2631 Doubts about Existence ofGod ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be NoJustice? How long to continue with this struggle? /message/3043--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Sir,Hare Krishna,I am devotee of Lord KrishnaSome times I doubt whether god is there or not ? Because in so many religiousplaces I see due to bomb blasts so many devotees dies drastically. Why the goddid not save them while they were praying. If there is god then god must comeand save all the devotees who use to pray in mosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.Vijay VyasJaipur---------------------NEW POSTING Sir, Though your claim is that you are a 'Lord Krishna Devotee' then, why you doubt Him? Krishna says 'SAMOHAM SARVABHUTHESHU NA ME DESHEYWHI NA PRIYA: YE BHAJANTHITU MAM BHAKYA MAYI THE THESHU CHAPYAHAM' He is equally available to all beings. He has no friends or foe. Regardless of friendship or enimity those who with loving sentiments render devotional service unto Me, such persons are in Me and I am in them. So Lord Krishna is in you whether you doubt Him or not. Death happens when it is due to one, whether he is church, temple or mosque. When the time of death is due to him he dies as per the law of karma etc., Hope, this as a satisfactory reply. Hare Shree Krishna! -krishnadasan. ---- My friend vyaasa,you say you are devotee of Krishna. if you think God resides in temples, churche,mosques and synagougues alone, then you can not be a devotee of Krishna. Lord is all pervasive. there is no place in which he is not present. Next, what do you mean or understand by God saving his devotees or any one. A hungry tiger chases a deer for food. Tiger and deer are both of equal significance to Lord. If He "saves" the deer from the tiger, will he not be doing injustice to the tiger? how can He do it. He will not do it. He has set up a Law called Rita and things happen as per the Rita he will not interfere. All animals except humans and his pets like dogs etc are devoid of jealousy and hatred. they lead their life as per the Rita. human being, on the otherhand, is jealous and flouts rita to quench his thirst for selfish gains. He tries to monopolize even God. God should be called this and nothing else says he. if you do not heed him, he will kill. A tiger/lion/mosquito kills and sucks blood only to fill in its stomach but a human kills for the fun of it, for supremacy and for the sake of God! human being is the most heinous of all creatures. He is an expert in digging his own grave right under his own feet. Saving him ought to be removing such mean mentality. Such man is not harmed by death, in God's view. man brought the tragedy upon himself and he has to pay for it. Why should God interfere in the Rita. He will not krishna samudrala --------- Dear Sadhak You must be knowing the law of Karma and hence it so happens God always guides us but the power of determination is given to human beings so we can not say any thing bad about Him If we have love and faith for God then we are always in His hands S S Bhatt --------Shree Hari Ram Ram God is TRUTH (REAL, SAT). Truth cannot lie. God says in Gita 9/22 - He will look after His devotees in all respects (Gita 9/22). He safeguards what they have, and provides for what they need. What more can we ask? All we have to do is accept Him, to have FAITH in HIS GRACE. Let us CALL on HIM !!! Hey Naath! Hey Naath! Mein Bhoolon Nahin ! Meera Das, Ram Ram --------------------- Hari OmDear Mr Vijay VyasOn one hand...There are 9 big holes in body and 90 million small holes in body. On other hand ...air is a subtle element ...very very thin . It can slip out from a minutest of minute holes. You are alive because of air (breaths) operating in body. Now what is the surprise ? Is it surprising that we are alive or is it more surprising that inspite of so many gates in body, the air is still operating rhythmatically in body and we are still alive ? Look at the Grace of God ! Inspite of there being so many exit points for air to run away ...we are alive. Still have doubts on His existence?Why don't you look at incidences referred by you as Law of Karma operating in life ...based on the deeds done by the humans in the past? Why you were not involved in those incidences ? Nothing is by chance ! Nothing is caused by Paramatma !! Gunas are interplaying among themselves. Karmas are converting into results. What God can do there? How do you judge some one's innocence or evilness? How can you say as to whether the deceased/sufferring souls are north bound or south bound? Do you think that those deceased still have complaints vis-a-vis Paramatma? Do you think that those who sufferred are not being taken care of, till their appointed tenure here or elsewhere ? How can you think about that for which you know nothing ? It is all Leela...a movie running in front of you...so that you see inside yourself and do not indulge in prohibited karmas...so that you never become too confident and dis-respect the mercy of God upon you...so that you are aware of sheer ruthlessness with which Law of Karma strikes back...so that you never underestimate the results of sins....so that you get opportunity to conduct yourself in a sadhak's way...so that you learn how to help sufferring fellow humans....so that you understand why Jagat is called dukhalayam...so that you are fearful of the very association with Jagat with selfish motives...so that you understand what is "selfless service"...so that you understand what is compassion...so that you may develop an indifference to connection with Jagat ...so that you wake up and run towards the Loving arms of Paramatma...!!! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ------------------------------- shree Paramaatmane nam: Shree Ramkrishnajee! You seem to be knowing what we don't know. Please answer to the following Questions : 1. What is God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know God, implying you definitely know God.] 2. What ascertains that you believe in God? [Question asked as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't believe in God.] 3. Tell the meaning of God to all sadhakas here in forum because most of us don't know God who is said to be beyond description by Swamijee, too. [Request made as you stated sadhak Vijay Vyas doesn't know the meaning of God, implying you definitely know it.] Please show us light, we need this knowledge in words. Regards and apology to be so straight to you to know what we don't know. Humbly, Sarvottam. --------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram We can only protect / save what is ours. Since we have been unsuccessful in saving/protecting all the bodies that we had in all these life times.. may be it is time to awaken and realize.. "We cannot save what is not ours." The point is that we become without a protector when we consider things that are not ours, as ours. As such, the "ansh" can never be unsafe... it is never apart from the "anshi." Meera Das, Ram Ram ----- Dear sir,I am not any religious expert or 'know it all'. However I will try to answer your question as best as I can. As with any book on religious topics, there are contradictions and people only give importance to certain aspects as per their convenience. However I have found that the Bhagavad Gita is comparatively 'logical' in its ideas.Basic idea of Bhagavad Gita (as I see it) - man must perform action in this world. It is necessary for society and mankind to survive. if people perform actions for selfish reasons and personal gain then in the long term this will lead to chaos, sadness and destruction. The Bhagavad Gita preaches selfless action. Whatever action is performed is for the betterment of mankind and society. However since some 'incentive' is to be provided to man, the incentive is provided by saying that the goal is to attain god or nirvana or escape from cycle of life and death. This can be done only by selfless action. This can be done in the following ways -Bhaktiyog - This is when all action is performed not out of personal gain but out of devotion to god (in my opinion this is for those with lesser education and understanding)Karmayog - (for those with slightly better understanding and education) this is when all action is performed out of a sense of 'duty'. Gyanayog - (for the most intelligent and knowledgeable) this is when a person has knowledge and hence knows what 'needs to be done' for the betterment of society.a lot of importance is given to 'gyan' and becoming 'sthitapragya' in the bhagavad gita. after you become gyani, you will also become 'sthitapragya' where you will be above things like happiness, sadness, profit, loss, victory, defeat etc. In this case your actions are not influenced by such feelings. you do whatever 'needs to be done'. (our problem is that we 'do' everything in life for positive feelings such as happiness, profit, victory and try to avert sadness, loss, defeat. we want to live long and avoid deathbut BG preaches that these are part of life. you have to be above all this). sthitapragya is above all this. (all this is very easy to say and very difficult to practice, but it does make sense)in fact in BG 5:14 and 5:15 - god does not give anyone any ability (or disability) or make anyone do anything, or provide any incentive to do anything or establish any relation between action and consequence. all this is the work of nature. god does not accept responsibility for anyones merit or sin. those who think otherwise are ignorant.I know people will quote 'yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharat........where god will come when things are really bad.however, I think this is basically not in line with the general line of thought in the BG and is a contradiction.A very interesting point to note in the Mahabharat is that in war between the pandavas and kauravs, God (krishna) played the role of a guide and did not 'do' anything directly (such as save the good guys and kill the bad guys and make things easy for all concerned).I hope that this answers your basic question. I strongly recommend reading the entire Mahabharat (not only the BG in isolation)with best regardsShardul Kulkarni Ram Ram The person who asks this question does not know God. He does not even believe in God. He does not know the meaning of God – and neither does he know the meaning of a devotee. Ramkrishna Ram Ram -------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has said that when you read the life stories of many great Saints, you will see that they have experienced many hardships. In situations when you are harassed, people do not listen to you, people scold you, they are mean to you, your health is failing, you are unemployed etc., all of these situations are nothing but in your favor. From a devotee's perspective, they are cleansing, purifying. There is lot to gain from unfavorable situations (pratikultaa).A Devotee is one who accepts all situations, including unfavorable situations are God's grace. A devotee's pespective is - this situation has been sent by God for our betterment and our spiritual growth. It may be difficult to bare unfavorable situations, during the time that one is going through it, but at all times know that there is immense gain in these situations. Let us at all times see His grace, see the cleansing taking place and remain ever joyful. (you may want to listen to swamiji's lecture in hindi Sept 2, 1992 at 5:00 pm, but date selection and downloading http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/ Meera Das, Ram Ram --------- FROM ANOTHER POSTING.... Dear Sadaks,Pakkad Baba/Pagal Baba, Sri Shirdi Sai Baba, Hariram Baba, Gyaneswar, Sakubai, Meera Bai and so many numerous divine personalities had HIGH sufferings. But they never seem to lament over it. Some saints were beaten up for absolutely NO fault of theirs. But all of them were in happiness. How? B.Sathyanarayan ---------- Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!I would stay away from making such judgments on "others" or "God". let us have a solid foundation of Honesty, Truth, and Devotion! Emphasis should be on living righteously, doing one's fair share, using mind-body's ability to serve fellow human beings! Only such an attitude brings joy and conflict free life, and inner strength and faith. Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt ------------ It is very selfish that we see God's grace when we receive favorable situation,but we dont thank God when unfavorable situations arises.we must always thank god for all the situations.Raja Gurdasani -------------------------------At some point we realize that whether we praise Him or curse Him, we will get only that is destined for us as per God's -the creator's scheme that determines what happens where, when and with what consequences on whom. Then, we know that whether we praise God or curse Him is also not our independent action but in accordance with our destiny as it works out as per the Laws or Principles that governs the entire creation. Whatever we do is whatever we are destined to do as per the properties of DNA/ RNA/Gins/ moleculars cells and atoms that we are made off in different combinations and their interactions over time. Then, we finally realize that the only way we can always be in peace and happiness is to identify an inner core that is within each of us as one and the same and nothing but the knowledge of the Basic Law or Principle that keeps the entire creation going as the way it does. We call that Atman / Paramatman/ God and identify ourselves with that God. We become one with God. God is what works without break, witrhout desire, without ego all the time. Some of us who are destined that way, we just try to find out if we can live like that: without desire, without ego and without jealuasy and with complete equanimity.Only a rare few are destined that way. That we worry that we are looking selfish, is because that is the design of God and we cannot escape that unless we are destined that way. Basudeb Sen ---God replied to this thing Himself long ago. No one gets killed, no one was everborn. Everything existed ceasely in God: only the forms change. There is nothingto save as no one gets killed or can be killed: only physical bodiestransform.With this reply in Gita, God satisfies me, but this reply may notsatisfy many others.Basudeb Sen----------------------------Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Vijay Vyas,Before I comment I like to remind you of Srimadbhagavadgiti 12:8:Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on me alone; there upon thoushalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt, about it.A comment of Swamiji on this in sadhaka-Sanjivani, 'Fix your mind on Me-itmeans, that the mind should be diverted from the thought of the world toGod,.........'.Getting back to you questions, firstly it is good that you realize that all whoworship, are worshiping Him.But instead of fixing your mind on Bhagwan, you are, by the very nature of yourquestion fixing it upon the world!'If there is god then god must come and save all the devotees who use to pray inmosques, temples, churches etc.Give me a satisfactory reply.'I suspect if one follows these instructions (B.G. 12:8) of the Supreme Lord,then such a question would not occur.Take it one step further, what about all those who do not attend places ofworship, but love The Beloved, with all their soul, where do theystand in your eyes?Jesus was asked a similar question about when will the Kingdom come, Jesusreplied to the affect that it has come and it is among you, butyou see it not.All of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, tells you that the Supreme Lord is here andamong us all, to read and acknowledge this chapter, willeliminate, 'If there is god then god must come..............'Om... Shant...Mike (K).-------The Gita is all about fighting for Dharma, and Krishna invokes Arjun tofight..We have to do our karma and fight the enemies.Dilip Bhagat-------------------------Shree Paramatmane NamahWhatever happens, happens according to the ordainment of the law If a bombblasts, and those that came into it's clutches are bound to be killedWhat canParamatma (God) do about this? To my knowledge, Paramatma (God) has not saidthat I will not allow my devotees to beever killed. If it was such, then therewould be only devotees today. We would not see any atheists around. People wantthat instead of risks and dangers, to not leave at all then only they will besafe. To place your hand in fire and then to not expect to be burnt is notpossible at all. Whether the hand is of a devotee or an atheist. So be it,Vineet Sarvottam-Shree Hari Ram RamGod is saving us every moment. We do not pay attention to His grace. We do notaccept His grace. Prayers never go unanswered.He is all compassionate. There isno one more compassionate than God. If we are "nirbal" (helpless/ powerless) andcall out to Him, He will surely come to our rescue, just like He did withDraupadi and Gajjendra. Let us pray with sincere heart and sentiments (bhava) toprotect the helplesss - Cows / unborn children / animals / young children /women / other helpless creatures etc. Surely the prayers will be answered. Letus see His grace in every situation.Meera Das, Ram Ram---------------------"I am devotee of Lord Krishna … Some times I doubt whether god is there ornot?"It is a very truthful dilemma most of us suffer from … self contradiction of "Iam a devotee to The God; but I have serious doubts whether He exists or not"permeates to one's perception because of one's desperation to vanquish the fearswithin while incapable of satiating the desires inculcated from around. One doesnot realize the self contradiction in the faith and doubt indoctrinated intoone's core existence being perpetually swayed in the storms of fears anddesires."I am a devotee of god" ... One wishes that there exists a "god" so that onecould be saved in life … to be saved from what? ... from the unknown fears ofexistence in the ruthless survival in this world. One needs solace to balancethe anxiety enseeded by the fears in living ... eventually, the fear of death.Therefore, one makes oneself a "devotee" to a "god" in a desperate hope thatsome great invincible force would save the fearful soul somehow. We build idlesand temples for the gods parying in fear with such hope. Do we have any clue ofeither the God or the Devotion here?! Devotion and god are mostly the notions ofconvenience and consolation here; not of any conviction!"I doubt whether god is there or not" … Why such contradiction raises fromwithin? We pray an invincible force "created" as a figment in our imagination asa "god" to save us. As we pray to such a "god", we start believing that we areobligating that "god" with our favors in terms of our worships and prayers. Thedelusion deepens as our belief in our own figment of imagination startsreinforcing itself and we start expecting the that "god" should save us inreturn. As the delusion spreads its tentacles within, the expectation becomesour right. But, the notion of god that is as meek as the imagination as suchcannot help in anyway except to delude the fellow further. The disappointed anddillusioned fellow starts doubting a "god" without realizing that the notion ofsuch a "god" came from one's own illusions in the desperate and urgeful momentsof survival. One never doubts how incompatible is this notion to the laws ofsurvival because one took this shelter in an attempt to escape from the wrath ofsurvival. Praying is a favor to the so called devotee as the intent is toattain the peace within. Instead, if one starts bargaining with an unknown forcefor a return of favor, one is bound to be disillusioned! Temples are built toprovide such an ambience for everyone to attain peace ... but the notionallybiased fellows spoil the ambience being swayed by the conflicting notions forand against the same ... few fellows build them ... and few fellows destroy them... both the acts are as notional as they are ... what do these ignorant acts ofdesolate human creatures to do with The God anyway?! Therefore, my dearfriend, my sincere suggestion to you is to cleanup your reasons for appreciating"The God". In my understanding, THE GOD remains a notion untill you harbor anyspecific "benefit" from the same … and. Then, you are bound to be disillusionedinto the corresponding doubts.Respects. Naga Narayana.-----------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease review prior discussion on this topic: Does God (Paramatma)Exist? Where is the Proof? What is the logic?/message/2631 Doubts about Existence ofGod ... What has happened suddenly? /message/2294 Why there appears to be NoJustice? How long to continue with this struggle? /message/3043--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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