Explain the Nature of the Causal, and the Subtle bodies? ?

[Guest guest]

-Shree Hari-Namaste!See this extract from Swamiji daily message below - 'Everything that is done with the three bodies - gross (sthool), causal (kaaran) and (shukshma) is all for the benefit of the world'.I wonder if learned Sadhaks could explain the nature of the causal, and the subtle bodies?Om... Shanti...Mike (K).

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NEW POSTING

As Swami Dayananda explains----

Let us say you live in a certain area in a high rise building. You also live in a particular apartment there. Would you like to live in a dirty or unsafe apartment, because you are not the apartment ? Would you like to live in a very unsafe building, because you are not the building ? Would you like to live in an unsafe area, which is dirty and full of crime, because you are not the area ?

 

But you do say that this is my area, my building, that is my apartment, etc...!!

All these become extensions of You. Similarly, the sukshma sharira ( the apartment ) the kaaran sharira ( the building ),and the sthool sharira ( your area, town, nation ) need to be preserved, cleaned, taken the best care of, so that You the atma can dwell in this sharira without disease, and with a clean and happy thoughts and take care of whatever it is that you need to do.

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

---------------------------

Hari OmBrother Mike has raised a Q which should be followed by every sadhak . It is a question of a real sadhak of any Yoga.Gross body you know- body as a whole, organs of action like ear,eyes, nose, tongue etc. Gross body is controlled by subtle body.Action is the function of gross body. Entire gross body is part of Prakruti. It is ceaselessly active.SUBTLE body consists of mind and intellect, sensory organs. Subtle body is controlled by Causal body. Subtle body gets controlled by Causal body. Determination and thinking is the function of subtle body. Entire subtle body is part of Prakruti. It is ceaselessly active.CAUSAL body is EGO. In causal body (ignorance zone) ..Purusha (pure soul/Self) resides with his Svabhav viz individuality and affinity with World viz EGO. Purusha with worldly ego is called Jeeva. Affinity is formed by Jeeva through 'assumption' of world as 'me/mine'. If colour of Self is white and of World (Prakruti) is black , then Ego has grey colour. STABILITY is function of Causal body. Stability is the result of combination of totally non-active element called Self/Purusha/Pure Soul and ceaselessly active element called Prakruti. Upon death, if Jeeva has not liberated itself, the causal body and subtle body travel with it, till liberation (BG 15:8) ! Upon withdrawal of subtle body , the gross body becomes dead.In causal body there is no activity. It is STABLE. It can resolve/accept/reject/ agree/disagree/connect/assume/ disconnect (different words for adoption/renunciation ) viz ACCEPT/RENOUNCE ONLY. None of them are 'ACTIONS' !! Based on the Acceptance levels assumed by Jeeva (causal body) , the intellect and mind function. Based on Intellect and Mind...the Gross body functions. THUS, the body, mind and intellect function AUTOMATICALLY based on acceptance levels of Jeeva.Thus control mechanism/order is. Self at the top - Ego - Intellect - Mind - sense organs - body ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Gross body to perform actions Dharmically with strong hold that actions done (Dhamically- to the welfare of all including, Pancha Boothas) done as Sri Krishna Arpanam. But other deeds performed for lust, money and fame gives raise to several Jalmas before coming back to the same point of Birth. At that birth atleast if actions done Dharmically, the gross body has aided in liberation. Casual body is given to realize Bagavan. Say one can be in this Sangh. Another can be with prohibited sites for people under 18 and get totally corrupted by this casual body, leading again to several births. Ex: from Vivekachudamani- If one indulges in pleasures and taste foods (Not Veg) without control, gets a birth of Pig to fulfill those desires. Another from Bagavath: If one is mentally or physically interested in other woman with deep desire- He gets a body in another world and he will be given the same lady whom he was fully interested. But the lady will be a copper doll almost resembling like a live lady. Here his eyes cannot recognize copper or flesh. So he will embrace. Only them he will feel that his whole body was burnt as that copper lady was heated. On this earth there is Panch boothas and bodies are made from them. In 13 other worlds, the bodies are made from the boothas that are composed.Shukshma is that witnesses all actions of gross and casual and pushes one to rebirth suitable to fulfill vasanas. So as Sri Adi Sankara Said, Jananapi Maranam,- Punarapi Maranam- Jatare Sayanam Etc. Ref: Bajagovindam. Means, birth, death, again birth again death, goes on like that until you constantly DO BAJAN ON GOVIND.NamasteB.Sathyanarayan

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Explain the nature of the causal, and the subtle bodies?

 

 

 

In my understanding,

 

 

 

The individual defined in terms of actions, objects and possessions in the physical world is GROSS (STHOOL). Its nature is to build relations in the physical world. Its nature (Prakriti) is apparent to the physical world and therefore is often identified with these characteristics. Being capable of seeing one's own reflection in the world around only through this medium, the gross identity is valued the most by the individual as well as the society. However, it is predominantly driven by the causal fellow and governed by the subtle fellow.

The individual defined in terms of thoughts, values and knowledge in the perceptional world is SUBTLE (SUKSHMA). Its nature is to build relations in the percieved world in terms of images for subject, objects as well as the relations. Its nature (VarNa) is not apparent to the world around though it is available for self-introspection to most individuals. Therefore the individual cannot be identified with these characteristics though it is sensed through one's physical existence. But, the individual having almost unlimitted access to this medium tends to believe that this determines most of his/her identity. Again, it is predominantly driven by the causal fellow and governed by the gross fellow.

The individual defined in terms desires, fears and tendencies in the experiential world is CAUSAL (KAARANA). Its nature is the tendencies embedded within the subconscious core of the individual which is mostly opaque to an individual's purview. It perpetually triggers all the thoughts and actions in its counterparts to fill itself with the corresponding experience. Though it tries to drive the other two fellows to quench its causal component, it often aggrevates its causal components being completely dependent on the input the system can provide through body, sense and mind strengthening the tendencies in terms of fears and desires toward the components of the other two fellows. Thus it remains subservient to the gross and subtle fellows inspite of being the driving force behind them at the same time.

Thus, the three - gross, subtle and causal - are perpetually interdependent to be what they are as well as to act as they are. The individual responsible for bridging the relation between the three bodies, that are otherwise alien to each other, seem to dwell in all these three identities seem to be a fourth party being within these three as well as transcendental to the three at the same time. Therefore, any quality entertained in any plane is bound to affect the other two. However, the transaction is often corrupted with an ignorance factor accounting for the inconsistencies this fourth fellow maintains between the other three.

 

 

 

 

Respects.

 

 

 

 

Naga Narayana

 

|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram

13th March 2010, Saturday, Chaitra Krishna Trayodashi

Vikram Samvat 2066, Sri Krishna Samvaat 5235

Question: This body is not mine, then what kind of relationship should we have with this body? Considering it as God's, should we give it the best of all (bhog) foods or should we become detached and give it dry pieces of bread (roti) for it's sustainance?

Swamiji: Whatever you get, you offer it to this body, as long as it is pure. Everything that is done with the three bodies - gross (sthool), causal (kaaran) and subtle (shukshma) is all for the benefit of the world. With the gross body, one can perform actions for the world. With the causal body, on can listen to scriptures (shravana), chant holy name of God (kirtana), rememberance of Lord's pastimes (smarana) etc., All this is to be done for the world. With the causal (kaaran) body one can meditate, can become single-pointed etc. for the benefit of the world.

With the gross body all actions and objects are to be utilized for the service of the world. One is not to allow the gross body to become lazy, to become a sense enjoyer (bhogi). One must constantly be "alert" (savdhaan). This is serving the gross body. To engage in Bhagwaan (God) is service of the subtle body. Everything is for the world. It is not for us. Decide once and for all that it is not for you, it is for the world. Serve the three bodies. Serve the world. We have nothing to do with it. We have no want, no desire, no intention (sankalp). Everything is only for the welfare of the world at large.

Money, wealth, possessions, they are all for serving the world. From the smallest to the biggest work is all for the world. Only Paramatma (God) will remain with us. Besides Paramatma, no one will remain with us. We are a part (ansh) of Bhagwaan (God). Give all things back to the world. We have nothing and there is nothing to do for the self. For us (self) ther is only VISHRAAM (repose) and "Bhagwad aashrey" - dependence on Bhagwaan (God). For ever and for ever - repose (param vishraam). Reliance on the world is a bondage. When you do any work for your self, it is a bondage. For us there is no need for anything. Only Bhagwaan is for us. And we are only for Bhagwaan.

Release everyone. Discharge everyone. Dismiss them all. Give holiday to all (chhutti de do). Every single one! Everything that belongs to the world, release it. Give them a leave. You will attain salvation very quickly. You give yourself to Bhagwaan, and body and all possessions give it to the world. This is an extra-ordinary point.

From summary of discourse in Hindi on June 24, 2004 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

==============================================

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sadhaks please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL.

Ram Ram

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[Guest guest]

-Shree Hari-Namaste!See this extract from Swamiji daily message below - 'Everything that is done with the three bodies - gross (sthool), causal (kaaran) and (shukshma) is all for the benefit of the world'.I wonder if learned Sadhaks could explain the nature of the causal, and the subtle bodies?Om... Shanti...Mike (K).

-------------------

NEW POSTING-Shree Haari-

Namaste!

Re: Upon death, if Jeeva has not liberated itself, the causal body and

subtle body travel with it, till liberation (BG 15:8) ! Upon withdrawal

of subtle body , the gross body becomes dead.

Thank you Brother Vyas, also the whole of your post was very enlightening!

And yes in Sadhaka-Sanjivani, Swamijis, comment on BG 15:8,

crystallizes this whole concept beautifully:

" ... So does the individual soul carry the senses mind intellect and

naturally instincts etc., (subtle and casual - both bodies) by assuming

them as his own, migrates to the body, which it acquires".

The Buddhist have the subtle wind and subtle consciousness, you notice

two , best as I can tell fill the same place in the spiritual

understanding, explained better by Swamiji. If one can get ones head

around and accept this truth, it bring into focus all the apparent

unexplainable phenomenas, like, near death experiences, past life

memories, memories of a brain dead woman..........

Om.... Shanti....

Mike.----------------------------

OM!

Gross body said to consist of ten parts (5+5) also called dasha ratha.

Five karmendriyas and five gnanendriyas. Viz legs, hands, anus, penis and mouth.+ ears, eyes, skin, tongue, nose (ref: bhagavat geetha for five gnanendriyas-- shrotram, chakshuh, sparshanam cha, rasanam, ghranamevacha)subtle body is said to consist of manas, buddhi, chitta and ahankara ie four parts. They are also called as Rama, Lakshman, Bharat and Shatrughan. In english call them as mind for manah, intellect for buddhi, consciousness for chitta and ego for ahankara. (bg adhisthaya manahchayam vishaanupasevate/ bhumirapo analo vayuh kham mano buddhirevacha ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakriti ashtadha. Gives us the knowledge that prakriti or nature is both

ie gross+suble.

Total 10+4=14

Causal body is said to be the source of subtle and gross and is called atma or soul in its disintegrated form. I.e pure soul with ignorance as its cover. This is called para paraprakriti.

Super soul or paramatma is in its integrated form with highest of sat ie eternal existence( beyond time and space), chit ie eternal consiousness( all knowledgeable form and not the chitta of soul with limited knowledge) & ananda( ie all bliss)

This above existence, knowledge and bliss solidified as is called is beyond all religions, creed, sex etc.etc.

Know it and attain.

how the soul with ignorance enters the prakriti , let us discuss later. Including the way to leave prakriti etc.

Meditate yourself to know all such secret tuths. Guhyat guhya taram maya ref: bg

OM

Bhuvangiri Badri Kishore

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Dear Sadaks,One Sadak posted this,("Would you like to live in a dirty or unsafe apartment, because you are not the apartment ? Would you like to live in a very unsafe building, because you are not the building ? Would you like to live in an unsafe area, which is dirty and full of crime, because you are not the area ?") Only when negating, I, mine and me, then you, this and that gets automatically negated. ONLY after that the cleansing of Sthool & Kaaran takes place by itself. Even after sometimes some reminiscence of Ego unknowingly hidden and Bagavan brings it out through HIS bakthas, making one pure. ALSO the 3 are not only benefit for the world, but for the SELF at large. That is the realized one sees ONLY Paramathuma (Servam Vasudevam) and does not see the world different from him. Seeing 2 thing is Duvaitham and seeing only one is advaitham. Ref: Adi Sankara, 100 of Bakthas and many saints.One more thing Sadaks could have noted, that the casual body even kept very clean, gross also very clean, undergoes disease and suffering irrespective of highest realization. Ex: Sri Ramakrishna Parama Hamsa, Samrtha Ramadoss, Villvamangalam, Ramana Rishi and many more. The Sukshma is undisturbed and remains same. Ref: Kapila Geetha, given by Maha Vishnu. Ex: Prahalad- when gross, casual and shukhma were aligned in Om Namo Narayana, the 3 became one only, non destructible. To him even father who punished maximum, was seen as Narayana. (Advaitham)NamasteB.Sathyanarayan

----

As Swami Dayananda explains----

Let us say you live in a certain area in a high rise building. You also live in a particular apartment there. Would you like to live in a dirty or unsafe apartment, because you are not the apartment ? Would you like to live in a very unsafe building, because you are not the building ? Would you like to live in an unsafe area, which is dirty and full of crime, because you are not the area ?

 

But you do say that this is my area, my building, that is my apartment, etc...!!

All these become extensions of You. Similarly, the sukshma sharira ( the apartment ) the kaaran sharira ( the building ),and the sthool sharira ( your area, town, nation ) need to be preserved, cleaned, taken the best care of, so that You the atma can dwell in this sharira without disease, and with a clean and happy thoughts and take care of whatever it is that you need to do.

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

---------------------------

Hari OmBrother Mike has raised a Q which should be followed by every sadhak . It is a question of a real sadhak of any Yoga.Gross body you know- body as a whole, organs of action like ear,eyes, nose, tongue etc. Gross body is controlled by subtle body.Action is the function of gross body. Entire gross body is part of Prakruti. It is ceaselessly active.SUBTLE body consists of mind and intellect, sensory organs. Subtle body is controlled by Causal body. Subtle body gets controlled by Causal body. Determination and thinking is the function of subtle body. Entire subtle body is part of Prakruti. It is ceaselessly active.CAUSAL body is EGO. In causal body (ignorance zone) ..Purusha (pure soul/Self) resides with his Svabhav viz individuality and affinity with World viz EGO. Purusha with worldly ego is called Jeeva. Affinity is formed by Jeeva through 'assumption' of world as 'me/mine'. If colour of Self is white and of World (Prakruti) is black , then Ego has grey colour. STABILITY is function of Causal body. Stability is the result of combination of totally non-active element called Self/Purusha/Pure Soul and ceaselessly active element called Prakruti. Upon death, if Jeeva has not liberated itself, the causal body and subtle body travel with it, till liberation (BG 15:8) ! Upon withdrawal of subtle body , the gross body becomes dead.In causal body there is no activity. It is STABLE. It can resolve/accept/reject/ agree/disagree/connect/assume/ disconnect (different words for adoption/renunciation ) viz ACCEPT/RENOUNCE ONLY. None of them are 'ACTIONS' !! Based on the Acceptance levels assumed by Jeeva (causal body) , the intellect and mind function. Based on Intellect and Mind...the Gross body functions. THUS, the body, mind and intellect function AUTOMATICALLY based on acceptance levels of Jeeva.Thus control mechanism/order is. Self at the top - Ego - Intellect - Mind - sense organs - body ! Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Gross body to perform actions Dharmically with strong hold that actions done (Dhamically- to the welfare of all including, Pancha Boothas) done as Sri Krishna Arpanam. But other deeds performed for lust, money and fame gives raise to several Jalmas before coming back to the same point of Birth. At that birth atleast if actions done Dharmically, the gross body has aided in liberation. Casual body is given to realize Bagavan. Say one can be in this Sangh. Another can be with prohibited sites for people under 18 and get totally corrupted by this casual body, leading again to several births. Ex: from Vivekachudamani- If one indulges in pleasures and taste foods (Not Veg) without control, gets a birth of Pig to fulfill those desires. Another from Bagavath: If one is mentally or physically interested in other woman with deep desire- He gets a body in another world and he will be given the same lady whom he was fully interested. But the lady will be a copper doll almost resembling like a live lady. Here his eyes cannot recognize copper or flesh. So he will embrace. Only them he will feel that his whole body was burnt as that copper lady was heated. On this earth there is Panch boothas and bodies are made from them. In 13 other worlds, the bodies are made from the boothas that are composed.Shukshma is that witnesses all actions of gross and casual and pushes one to rebirth suitable to fulfill vasanas. So as Sri Adi Sankara Said, Jananapi Maranam,- Punarapi Maranam- Jatare Sayanam Etc. Ref: Bajagovindam. Means, birth, death, again birth again death, goes on like that until you constantly DO BAJAN ON GOVIND.NamasteB.Sathyanarayan

---------

 

 

 

 

Explain the nature of the causal, and the subtle bodies?

 

 

 

In my understanding,

 

 

 

The individual defined in terms of actions, objects and possessions in the physical world is GROSS (STHOOL). Its nature is to build relations in the physical world. Its nature (Prakriti) is apparent to the physical world and therefore is often identified with these characteristics. Being capable of seeing one's own reflection in the world around only through this medium, the gross identity is valued the most by the individual as well as the society. However, it is predominantly driven by the causal fellow and governed by the subtle fellow.

 

The individual defined in terms of thoughts, values and knowledge in the perceptional world is SUBTLE (SUKSHMA). Its nature is to build relations in the percieved world in terms of images for subject, objects as well as the relations. Its nature (VarNa) is not apparent to the world around though it is available for self-introspection to most individuals. Therefore the individual cannot be identified with these characteristics though it is sensed through one's physical existence. But, the individual having almost unlimitted access to this medium tends to believe that this determines most of his/her identity. Again, it is predominantly driven by the causal fellow and governed by the gross fellow.

The individual defined in terms desires, fears and tendencies in the experiential world is CAUSAL (KAARANA). Its nature is the tendencies embedded within the subconscious core of the individual which is mostly opaque to an individual's purview. It perpetually triggers all the thoughts and actions in its counterparts to fill itself with the corresponding experience. Though it tries to drive the other two fellows to quench its causal component, it often aggrevates its causal components being completely dependent on the input the system can provide through body, sense and mind strengthening the tendencies in terms of fears and desires toward the components of the other two fellows. Thus it remains subservient to the gross and subtle fellows inspite of being the driving force behind them at the same time.

Thus, the three - gross, subtle and causal - are perpetually interdependent to be what they are as well as to act as they are. The individual responsible for bridging the relation between the three bodies, that are otherwise alien to each other, seem to dwell in all these three identities seem to be a fourth party being within these three as well as transcendental to the three at the same time. Therefore, any quality entertained in any plane is bound to affect the other two. However, the transaction is often corrupted with an ignorance factor accounting for the inconsistencies this fourth fellow maintains between the other three.

 

 

 

 

Respects.

 

 

 

 

Naga Narayana

 

 

|| Shree Hari ||Ram Ram

13th March 2010, Saturday, Chaitra Krishna Trayodashi

Vikram Samvat 2066, Sri Krishna Samvaat 5235

Question: This body is not mine, then what kind of relationship should we have with this body? Considering it as God's, should we give it the best of all (bhog) foods or should we become detached and give it dry pieces of bread (roti) for it's sustainance?

Swamiji: Whatever you get, you offer it to this body, as long as it is pure. Everything that is done with the three bodies - gross (sthool), causal (kaaran) and subtle (shukshma) is all for the benefit of the world. With the gross body, one can perform actions for the world. With the causal body, on can listen to scriptures (shravana), chant holy name of God (kirtana), rememberance of Lord's pastimes (smarana) etc., All this is to be done for the world. With the causal (kaaran) body one can meditate, can become single-pointed etc. for the benefit of the world.

With the gross body all actions and objects are to be utilized for the service of the world. One is not to allow the gross body to become lazy, to become a sense enjoyer (bhogi). One must constantly be "alert" (savdhaan). This is serving the gross body. To engage in Bhagwaan (God) is service of the subtle body. Everything is for the world. It is not for us. Decide once and for all that it is not for you, it is for the world. Serve the three bodies. Serve the world. We have nothing to do with it. We have no want, no desire, no intention (sankalp). Everything is only for the welfare of the world at large.

Money, wealth, possessions, they are all for serving the world. From the smallest to the biggest work is all for the world. Only Paramatma (God) will remain with us. Besides Paramatma, no one will remain with us. We are a part (ansh) of Bhagwaan (God). Give all things back to the world. We have nothing and there is nothing to do for the self. For us (self) ther is only VISHRAAM (repose) and "Bhagwad aashrey" - dependence on Bhagwaan (God). For ever and for ever - repose (param vishraam). Reliance on the world is a bondage. When you do any work for your self, it is a bondage. For us there is no need for anything. Only Bhagwaan is for us. And we are only for Bhagwaan.

Release everyone. Discharge everyone. Dismiss them all. Give holiday to all (chhutti de do). Every single one! Everything that belongs to the world, release it. Give them a leave. You will attain salvation very quickly. You give yourself to Bhagwaan, and body and all possessions give it to the world. This is an extra-ordinary point.

From summary of discourse in Hindi on June 24, 2004 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

==============================================

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sadhaks please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL.

Ram Ram

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