Guest guest Posted March 26, 2010 Report Share Posted March 26, 2010 Namaskar, Over the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher. Can the learnt men in this group provide some light to my quest. Regards Sriram.S ------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sriramji, Swamiji has written extensively on Guru. Please read the links provided, as they will be very beneficial to you. If doubts arise, please do not hesitate to ask any questions for further clarification. All sadhaks may also provide any further insights. please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL. With Devotion, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----- FROM PRIOR SADHAK MESSAGES: Sadhak message links on Guru are at :What is a True Spiritual Guide like?sadhaka/message/1161 Who can be a Guru? Part I & II sadhaka/message/2219 sadhaka/message/2220 Gita View of Guru - Part I & IIsadhaka/message/1129sadhaka/message/1130Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?sadhaka/message/1926 Can there be no liberation without a Guru? sadhaka/message/2039On Guru Disciple Relationshipsadhaka/message/1903On Guru - Sishyasadhaka/message/1105Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?sadhaka/message/1819Worship of Guru - Part 1sadhaka/message/1738Worship of Guru - Part 2sadhaka/message/1739God is Guru of this Universesadhaka/message/1661Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Gurusadhaka/message/1659Real Guru is your discrimination:sadhaka/message/1547There is no Sin in letting go of false Gurusadhaka/message/1484Who can be considered a Guru?sadhaka/message/1301Gita Talk discussion links are at:/message/1121 FROM PRIOR GITA TALK DISCUSIONS: Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ? /message/1844 Guru Worship related /message/1121 ============================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Namaskar, Over the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher. Can the learnt men in this group provide some light to my quest. Regards Sriram.S ------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sriramji, Swamiji has written extensively on Guru. Please read the links provided, as they will be very beneficial to you. If doubts arise, please do not hesitate to ask any questions for further clarification. All sadhaks may also provide any further insights. please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL. With Devotion, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----- NEW POSTING Dear Ones, Namaste!Dear Sriramji, if you say that Sadguru finds a disciple, then answer is easy. Just be a deserving disciple, that's all you can do and should do, if Sadguru were to find you! Sadguru knows True disciple, whereas disciple may not know Sadguru!From own experience I can tell you that He does find disciple! As I often say and feel strong to repeat it, it is Truth that invites one to discover Itself, because ego is not interested in Truth! Consider yourself lucky to be thinking about Sadguru! Actuall true Sadguru is Atma, your very SELF! Apparent Guru only points to that place!Keep heart and mind open, attend Satsangs, have like-minded friends, read scriptures, hear Truth more often! If someone's talk makes you happy, and your guts tells you "he/she" knows what you want to know, Trust those moments when your entire being says "Yes, Yes, Yes...." .Make Devotion and selfless service the part of your Life. Long for Truth!Soon Universe will conspire to send whatever is needed for you at the time it is needed! Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt ------ If you are destined to find a Sadguru, your yearning fror Sadguru will progressively intensify. Meanwhile, you yourself may become your Sadguru if God wants that way. God is ultimate Sadguru behind you. Trust Him always. Basudeb Sen ----- Hari OmSadhak Shriram ! Re_read your opening statements:QuoteOver the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. UnquoteDon't you agree that life 'taught you lessons' ? Human Life is your Guru ! You say you need Guru to 'deploy your intellect in right direction' !! Is it in wrong direction at present ? How do you know? Who knows this thing? It is proved that there is some element in yourself who knows ' my intellect is in wrong direction, needs to be in right direction' ! What is that element? That element is VIVEKA- discriminating between 'right direction' and 'wrong direction' ! That VIVEKA is your Guru. That is already sitting inside you ! Why then you are foolishly searching outside for Guru? Do you know, why? I will tell you ! Your mind is cheating you !! Your mind is suggesting ...I will remain like this, find out Sadguru ! Your VIVEKA says ..wrong, wrong direction !! Hence Trust your Viveka !! Did you have to search that element inside you which is suggesting ' There is need for deployment of putting intellect in right direction' ? You say - "The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher."I say- that makes your search not tougher but futile, foolish and totally unnecessary !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji says that it is virtually impossible for us to recognize a real Guru/Sadguru. You can only recognize that which is of lesser powers/greatness than yourself. You are absolutely right... No need to search! When the fruit is ripe, then the parrot himself finds it. When you become completely ready for your salvation, the God will immediately provide all the aids (including Guru if needed) for your salvation. But not if it is false crying. Maa knows when to stop all her work and attending to a crying child whose is in despair. But she ignores the false cries and continues doing her work. Let us do our part, and have an intense longing for Truth, for Salvation, for our Beloved, and leave the rest to God....... Meera Das. Ram Ram - Sadguru is a God realised person. In Hardwar for Kumbh lakhs of holy men have congregated but among them the real Gurus are only a handful. In this forum we are not allowed to mention any particular Guru however there are genuine ones and and many devotees have found solace from them. My personal feeling is that when the right time comes we do not have to go to the Guru. The Guru will come to you. Hari Shanker Deo -- AUM We have all intellectually understood the meaning of God, Light, and the Self being One; of Karma, Bhakti and Gyana ............... we all are choosing to share thoughts so that the Intellectual Knowledge gets transformed into our Being, into our own Experience, ..................... and then the dichotomy begins ................. instead of imbibing the understanding that frees us from all dichotomies, we begin to get caught up by new concepts and conditionings again ................... If we want the experience ............... We shall have to be on guard that our own concepts donot become so powerful that they become our 'mental positions' and we feel compelled to defend them .................... and then keep trying to fit the Truth or Reality into the parameters of the Concept . if God the all-pervading Light, and Unity of Life , one wishes to understand .... the first understanding must be of the word guru.................. and concepts and conditionings of mind that prevent us from de-eclipsing the Guru within us ........... Light is what we are .............. were and shall always be ............... so we are the guru ( gu-ru)............... but not aware of our own being are we ...........................aum so, to de-eclipse the Light within, there is a great need to understand that we shall have to become the Right Disciple .............. meaning that the yearning for Truth in us is so strong that our very desire for Truth enables us to absorb the Light from all around us ..............(Vivekachudamani spells out the qualifications of the sadhaka true Sh. 14-17. See also 33 to 42.) the pointers to guide us have been left by all the Knowers of Truth ............... but the Mind is uanable to interpret them correctly and walk the Path because of its own dichotomies ............. it is then that Prayer arises in the heart to God to send us a guru ....... and the prayer is always answered .............. we are enabled to recognise the Guru, who had been amidst us all the while, but we had been too busy to 'evaluate' the Guru, rather than see the Light emanating from him. AUM narinder bhandari ----- FROM PRIOR SADHAK MESSAGES: Sadhak message links on Guru are at :What is a True Spiritual Guide like?sadhaka/message/1161 Who can be a Guru? Part I & II sadhaka/message/2219 sadhaka/message/2220 Gita View of Guru - Part I & IIsadhaka/message/1129sadhaka/message/1130Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?sadhaka/message/1926 Can there be no liberation without a Guru? sadhaka/message/2039On Guru Disciple Relationshipsadhaka/message/1903On Guru - Sishyasadhaka/message/1105Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?sadhaka/message/1819Worship of Guru - Part 1sadhaka/message/1738Worship of Guru - Part 2sadhaka/message/1739God is Guru of this Universesadhaka/message/1661Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Gurusadhaka/message/1659Real Guru is your discrimination:sadhaka/message/1547There is no Sin in letting go of false Gurusadhaka/message/1484Who can be considered a Guru?sadhaka/message/1301Gita Talk discussion links are at:/message/1121 FROM PRIOR GITA TALK DISCUSIONS: Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ? /message/1844 Guru Worship related /message/1121 ============================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2010 Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Namaskar, Over the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher. Can the learnt men in this group provide some light to my quest. Regards Sriram.S ------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sriramji, Swamiji has written extensively on Guru. Please read the links provided, as they will be very beneficial to you. If doubts arise, please do not hesitate to ask any questions for further clarification. All sadhaks may also provide any further insights. please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL. With Devotion, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----- NEW POSTING -Shree Hari-Namaste!Good Idea read the posts listed below I have read some of these myself!The general pattern of responses is that the Guru will come, if he is to come; your discretion, (I would add viewed through the desire for the Beloved) will guide you, council you. Beware of pay me and I will get you instant liberation, Gurus. There are a lot of ripoff merchants, around certainly in my country, worldwide I bet! If you have a burning desire for the Supreme Lord, look to Him, be prepared for the amazing happenings, sometimes the Guru will come, but you may not perceive him/her, but dear Sadhak please please use you Viveka, not your ego.I will tell you one other thing, be prepared for a lonely pilgrimage home to Him, it's in such loneness, you may hear The Beloved call! Whatever is right for you, will happen if you stay focused!Gitaji, 12:8. Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on Me alone; there upon thou shalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt about it!If you start to do that, do you think The Beloved would not provide you with all that you need to enfold you in His embrace?Om... Shanti...Mike (K). -------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Today's sadhak message says - Guru is not a man. Considering Guru as Man or Man as Guru is an offense. Guru is the "tattva" (Divine, Essence, Element). That Paramatma tattva (Essence, Divinity, Truth) present is Guru. Krishnam vande jagat Guru. Lord Krishna is the Guru of this World. Then why must you make a Guru? If he is the Guru of this entire World, then are you outside of the world? Consider Lord Krishna as Guru, and Gitaji as His supreme instructions, an extraordinary, divine message for us. You will not get such a Guru anywhere. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------ You remind me of the priest, who is stuck in a snow storm. He prays for God to help him. A passer by comes and asks if anyone needs help, and the priest says "no". After some more praying and even more snow, the priest is feeling cold, and he asks for God to help him, and a man on a horse stops by and asks if someone needed help. The priest says "no". After some more snow and lot more praying, one more person comes there, and the priest says again "no". When there is a sound from heaven, and God says, why are you praying, I sent 3 people your way to help you, and you drove them away !! You do not know in which form the Sadguru comes----by way of books, TV, or someone else's wisdom. Yes, my Guru did come to me. When you are ready, it will happen. But do not wait for that moment or person. Keep meditating, reading and helping others. It will happen. Durgesh Mankikar,MD I found this very interesting today's post. just like the title "mother" is generally for one who has a child. Until the child arrives, the woman is not called a mother, so similarly, when a sadhak is enlightened (liberated, attains salvation etc.) i.e. darkness is removed, the spiritual guide is thereafter be called a "Guru" (remover of darkness). That makes perfect sense. Bala GK Dandavat pranams to all in this forum..... (I am refraining from any indication of who I personally see as a sadguru, only because this is each and every person's individual choice....you cannot take my experience and perception of truth as your own. Also, my dear Sriram.S......you commented in your query below that the guru finds the disciple, and this makes your seach even toughter. This is a contradictory thought. If you accept that the guru is finding you, than truly, you accept that the search is no longer yours. It is by divine will..... You are all invited to attend a very beautiful gathering in the mountains of northern California, dates are June 9th through the 15th (2010), 14 bhakti-yoga festival hosted by Vaisnava community of Badger California (also renamed "New Braja Village") ......with kirtan, drama plays, prasad etc. You may contact the moderators if able to attend. Dandavat pranams..... Maha laksmi Dasi --------------------- Dear friend, do not seek guidance from any nigura Guru in this regard. One who never had a living Guru should not guide others in matter of Guru. Yet if someone guides others saying Guru is not required he himself becomes the Guru of the person guided by him. You please read Swami Vivekananda, Guru Tattwa by Swami Sivananda, Sant Gyaneshwar in his Jnanwshwari gita, Sri Gurugita, Guru Ashtakam of Sri Sankaracharya, Shwetashwatar Upanishad to get guidance. Any one who has never experienced the grace of a Guru can only misguide you however great scholar he might be. Dr.Premji ------- Dear Ones, Namaste!Dear Sriramji, if you say that Sadguru finds a disciple, then answer is easy. Just be a deserving disciple, that's all you can do and should do, if Sadguru were to find you! Sadguru knows True disciple, whereas disciple may not know Sadguru!From own experience I can tell you that He does find disciple! As I often say and feel strong to repeat it, it is Truth that invites one to discover Itself, because ego is not interested in Truth! Consider yourself lucky to be thinking about Sadguru! Actuall true Sadguru is Atma, your very SELF! Apparent Guru only points to that place!Keep heart and mind open, attend Satsangs, have like-minded friends, read scriptures, hear Truth more often! If someone's talk makes you happy, and your guts tells you "he/she" knows what you want to know, Trust those moments when your entire being says "Yes, Yes, Yes...." .Make Devotion and selfless service the part of your Life. Long for Truth!Soon Universe will conspire to send whatever is needed for you at the time it is needed! Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt ------ If you are destined to find a Sadguru, your yearning fror Sadguru will progressively intensify. Meanwhile, you yourself may become your Sadguru if God wants that way. God is ultimate Sadguru behind you. Trust Him always. Basudeb Sen ----- AUM He , who cannot even be heard of by many; whom many hearing , donot come to know; wonderous is He, who can teach(Him)and skilful is he, who finds(Him), and wonderous is he, who knows even when instructed by the Wise. Taught by an inferior man, He cannot be truly understood as He is thought of in many ways.Unless taught by one, who knows Him as himself, there is no going thither for it is inconceivable, being subtler than the subtle . Thus does the Katha Upanishad reveal to the seeker true (Ch, 1, Sec 2, Sh. 7 and 8 above) Only when a yearning , pining heart is enabled to recieve intelligence contained in the words directly from the Light contained within itself, the need of outer guide becomes redundant , only then ................ It is of that experience that Nanak sings , " Ananda bhaya meri maen Satguru maein paya" . Thereafter the role of the outer Guide , the Man of Realisation, the superior person is over. The Satguru, who was ever abiding in the heart cavity of the person, but whose voice could not be heard by the person till then, now takes over . The words of the scriptures , the wise men, the saints and the sages, now reveal their intelligence to the seeker directly.................. because The Light in the self is now awakened .........or, rather............ the Mind is now 'dead' , it has stopped eclipsing that Light . Therefore, dear Sadhaks, seek out the man of Realisation, pray to God to make him available ................. the guru that Katha Upanishad (above) speaks about, the Man of Realisation that the Bhagvada geetha speaks about in Ch 7, Sh 3 ..................... and trust God enough to feel that God shall not allow you to fall into the hands of a cheat posing as a guru. It is then that the words of Swami Ramsukhdasjee would need but one reading to become your understanding ' in action '. AUM narinder bhandari ----------------------- Hari OmSadhak Shriram ! Re_read your opening statements:QuoteOver the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. UnquoteDon't you agree that life 'taught you lessons' ? Human Life is your Guru ! You say you need Guru to 'deploy your intellect in right direction' !! Is it in wrong direction at present ? How do you know? Who knows this thing? It is proved that there is some element in yourself who knows ' my intellect is in wrong direction, needs to be in right direction' ! What is that element? That element is VIVEKA- discriminating between 'right direction' and 'wrong direction' ! That VIVEKA is your Guru. That is already sitting inside you ! Why then you are foolishly searching outside for Guru? Do you know, why? I will tell you ! Your mind is cheating you !! Your mind is suggesting ...I will remain like this, find out Sadguru ! Your VIVEKA says ..wrong, wrong direction !! Hence Trust your Viveka !! Did you have to search that element inside you which is suggesting ' There is need for deployment of putting intellect in right direction' ? You say - "The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher."I say- that makes your search not tougher but futile, foolish and totally unnecessary !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji says that it is virtually impossible for us to recognize a real Guru/Sadguru. You can only recognize that which is of lesser powers/greatness than yourself. You are absolutely right... No need to search! When the fruit is ripe, then the parrot himself finds it. When you become completely ready for your salvation, the God will immediately provide all the aids (including Guru if needed) for your salvation. But not if it is false crying. Maa knows when to stop all her work and attending to a crying child whose is in despair. But she ignores the false cries and continues doing her work. Let us do our part, and have an intense longing for Truth, for Salvation, for our Beloved, and leave the rest to God....... Meera Das. Ram Ram - Sadguru is a God realised person. In Hardwar for Kumbh lakhs of holy men have congregated but among them the real Gurus are only a handful. In this forum we are not allowed to mention any particular Guru however there are genuine ones and and many devotees have found solace from them. My personal feeling is that when the right time comes we do not have to go to the Guru. The Guru will come to you. Hari Shanker Deo -- AUM We have all intellectually understood the meaning of God, Light, and the Self being One; of Karma, Bhakti and Gyana ............... we all are choosing to share thoughts so that the Intellectual Knowledge gets transformed into our Being, into our own Experience, ..................... and then the dichotomy begins ................. instead of imbibing the understanding that frees us from all dichotomies, we begin to get caught up by new concepts and conditionings again ................... If we want the experience ............... We shall have to be on guard that our own concepts donot become so powerful that they become our 'mental positions' and we feel compelled to defend them .................... and then keep trying to fit the Truth or Reality into the parameters of the Concept . if God the all-pervading Light, and Unity of Life , one wishes to understand .... the first understanding must be of the word guru.................. and concepts and conditionings of mind that prevent us from de-eclipsing the Guru within us ........... Light is what we are .............. were and shall always be ............... so we are the guru ( gu-ru)............... but not aware of our own being are we ...........................aum so, to de-eclipse the Light within, there is a great need to understand that we shall have to become the Right Disciple .............. meaning that the yearning for Truth in us is so strong that our very desire for Truth enables us to absorb the Light from all around us ..............(Vivekachudamani spells out the qualifications of the sadhaka true Sh. 14-17. See also 33 to 42.) the pointers to guide us have been left by all the Knowers of Truth ............... but the Mind is uanable to interpret them correctly and walk the Path because of its own dichotomies ............. it is then that Prayer arises in the heart to God to send us a guru ....... and the prayer is always answered .............. we are enabled to recognise the Guru, who had been amidst us all the while, but we had been too busy to 'evaluate' the Guru, rather than see the Light emanating from him. AUM narinder bhandari ----- FROM PRIOR SADHAK MESSAGES: Sadhak message links on Guru are at :What is a True Spiritual Guide like?sadhaka/message/1161 Who can be a Guru? Part I & II sadhaka/message/2219 sadhaka/message/2220 Gita View of Guru - Part I & IIsadhaka/message/1129sadhaka/message/1130Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?sadhaka/message/1926 Can there be no liberation without a Guru? sadhaka/message/2039On Guru Disciple Relationshipsadhaka/message/1903On Guru - Sishyasadhaka/message/1105Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?sadhaka/message/1819Worship of Guru - Part 1sadhaka/message/1738Worship of Guru - Part 2sadhaka/message/1739God is Guru of this Universesadhaka/message/1661Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Gurusadhaka/message/1659Real Guru is your discrimination:sadhaka/message/1547There is no Sin in letting go of false Gurusadhaka/message/1484Who can be considered a Guru?sadhaka/message/1301Gita Talk discussion links are at:/message/1121 FROM PRIOR GITA TALK DISCUSIONS: Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ? /message/1844 Guru Worship related /message/1121 ============================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Namaskar, Over the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher. Can the learnt men in this group provide some light to my quest. Regards Sriram.S ------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sriramji, Swamiji has written extensively on Guru. Please read the links provided, as they will be very beneficial to you. If doubts arise, please do not hesitate to ask any questions for further clarification. All sadhaks may also provide any further insights. please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL. With Devotion, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----- NEW POSTING Dear Sadaks,Definition of Sat Guru, said in Sastras. Sat Guru- Does not have more than 3 cloths to wear, does not stay more than 3 days in one place, does not beg food more than 5 houses, only talks of Bhraman and enlightens people HE comes across, NO anger or selfishness or pomp and show can be seen. HE has NO dislikes and likes. For earnest seekers of spiritualism, God puts the seeker in tests and Sat Guru comes to seeker. For Durva Guru Naradh was in disguise as a Bhramin. The king Dasarath requested sage Viswamithra to stay an extra day in his kingdom after returning from Yagna with Sri Rama and Lakshmana.The sage said 3 days is over and he went to forest. Stay tuned in Namasankreethan, Guru you will get.B.Sathyanarayan. -------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Simple rule of thumb... if Guru has any interest whatsoever in KAAMINI (Women) and KANCHAN (Gold/Money) from you, he cannot be a REAL GURU. God has provided us with vivek and all the resources, now it is upto the sadhak himself to not be deluded. Meera Das, Ram Ram ---------- Dear All, Namaskar !The topic is well dealt so far by other sadaks! To summarize their views it is said:1. Sat-Guru is one's own self and there is no need to find it outside. That inner Sat-Guru is no other than your own Vivek (conscience).2. The rest of all other type of Gurus found outside your own self are of lower spirituality levels than your own inner Sat-Guru.3. I wish to only add that one need to first ascertain firmly with himself as to why at all and what for he needs a Guru! Depending on the purity and sincerity of thought with which one desires to have a Guru, the preset destiny is bound to change with that firm desire and the concerned would get the requisite Guru undoubtedly insted!4. Concluding, at the hightest level of reality illusive duality vanishes and Guru merges into Sehsh and the vice -verse! Namaskar once again! (Kuldeep Kumar Kaul) --------------------- Namaskar!Interesting quest? First and foremost is why we need a Guru. Our day to day principals in life should be very clear to us. Many shalokas and mediattion stages have been prescribed but there is no short cut medicine with Guru or elesewhere. If you read material like Mool Mantra of Jap ji than you encounter the real truth of life and the message therein is "Bey Sachhayara Hoi yeh.....and Hookam Razai chalana" We must increase our "Patrata" and you will keep finding indicators in your road which is also known as God's grace. Be true to your self and think universally, I can guarantee there is lesson in day to day life and that is your self Guru. You can read thousands of pages and discuss these things endlessely whole life, nothing changes unless we start noticing our own life and truth in it. Certain things we will be do while we dont want to and certain things keep happening without your control. You cannot copy anybody's life and experience though there are courses and discourses." Beekha baat adham ki, Na kehan ki na sunsn ki, Jo kehat so jannat nahi aur jo jaanat so kehat nahi' Experiment with your self with truth and guidance will prop up automatically. Hari OmR.K.Raina--- Hari Om, please do not misguide the people. If Krishna is the Jagatguru why does he instruct in Gita Tadvivviddhi pranipatena pariprashnena sewaya Upadekshyanti te gnanam gnaninah tattvadarshinah. " Know that, by prostrating yourself, by questions, and by service; the wise, those who have realized the Truth, will instruct you in that knowledge." (4/34 Gita) Scriptures should not be misinterpreted to suite personal view point. Upanishads are the authority on spiritual matters. Upanishad does not teach to accept any God like Krishna as the Guru. Mundak Upanishad teaches in the verse I-ii-12: "A Brahmana should resort to renunciation after examining the worlds acquired through karma, with the help of this maxim: `There is nothing (here) that is not the result of karma; so what is the need of (performing) karma ?' For knowing that Reality he should go, with sacrificial faggots in hand, only to a teacher versed in the Vedas and absorbed in Brahman." Shwetashwatar Upanishad teaches in the verse VI-23: "These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has supreme devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion to the spiritual teacher. They shine forth in that high-souled one only." Gita is a Smriti Grantha and Upanishads are Shrutis. Even if there is difference in Smriti and Shruti on any point, Shruti should be considered authentic. So I request you to be faithful to Truth and not to any person because Truth is greater than any person or even god.. I hope you will not propagate such misleading teachings. Dr.Premji ----------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Premji, regarding Gita 4/34 and need for precepter, Swamiji has explained these points. Swamiji only spoke based on what was already in the scriptures. In the exposition of knowledge (jnana), in the following verses, "pranipaatenpariprashshren sevayaa" (Gita 4:34) and "Aachaaryoupaasenam," (Gita 13:7) Gitahas talked about serving the teachers and worshipful reverence. Thesignificance of these Gita verses is that, in the path of knowledge (Jnanamarg), there is a greater tendency to develop arrogance, that "I am Brahma" (Iam that Supreme Reality). In order to alarm the spiritual aspirant, there isthe stipulation expressed or need for a realized spiritual master. However,even this is only necessary if the spiritual aspirant is lacking in intensequest or is of the deep belief that only through the instructions of a spiritualmaster, he can attain knowledge. But on having intense inner longing, anardent desire, the spiritual aspirant will not feel satisfied in any conditionwithout having attained the divine knowledge. He will not get stuck in anyreligious organization, and he will not consider any special qualities inhimself, causing him to become egoistical. Such a sincere spiritual seeker'squest will be fulfilled by God's divine grace. From "Saccha Guru Kaun Hai?" by Swami RamsukhdasjiHe has also said the following in Gita Prabodhani. This has been elaborated at great length in Sadhak Sanjivani. Here are excerpts from Gita Prabodhani - "Tadviddhi pranipaatena pariprasnena sevayaaUpadeksyanti te jnaanam jnaaninatattvadarsinah." (Gita 4:34)"Understand that essential knowledge, by going to a Self Realized, Great Soul.By your obeisance and humble reverence, by serving him and with a simplestraightforward heart questioning him, that great self-realized soul, willinstruct you, in (that) knowledge of Truth (jnana)." (Gita 4:34)Comments - After describing in detail the method of attaining the essentialKnowledge of Truth, then let us say, God is intending to express that simply bymaking someone a Guru, one cannot attain knowledge of Truth (jnana), and simplyby making someone a disciple the Guru's duties are not complete. When one goesto a realized, great Soul, prostrates at his feet (surrenders to him), does allactivities according to his instructions, and expresses one's keen quest andinquiry into the essential nature, then the Guru, will instruct the aspirant inthe essential knowledge of Truth, without engaging in a Guru-Disciple relation.From whomever this knowledge of truth is attained, it is essential that thatgreat Soul be realized and well-versed in the scriptures. If he is realized,but is not well-versed in the scriptures, then he will be unable tosatisfactorily respond and remove the doubts of the spiritual aspirant's intensequest for learning and knowledge of Truth. If he is well-versed in thescriptures, but is not a realized Soul, then his messages will not be solid,firm, and geniune and therefore it will not have any influence or effect on theaspirant towards attaining realization.Of the two, realized soul and one who is well-versed in scriptures, being arealized soul is more important. In a realized soul, the knowledge of thescriptures is attained automatically. It is only from the words and messages ofrealized great souls that these scriptures were compiled. Their words areautomatically and naturally in alignment with the scriptures.From "Gita Prabodhani" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji pg 118 Ram Ram ------- Dear Seekers of Vedic Knowledge, Subject Vedic GURU is a preceptor Guru word is from Gu- darkness and Ru- to dispel. According to Rig Veda a Guru is a dispeller of inner and outer darkness of his/her disciples. Vedic Gurus are normally Rudrai- having studied till the age of 36 years or Aditya i.e. having studied till the age of 44 to 48 years all Social, Physical, Military and Spiritual Sciences containing seven streams of knowledge. Vedic Guru renders the greatest service to God by spreading harmonized divine, spiritual and material knowledge (para Jnan) with honesty, straight forwardness, without deceit of any kind for all to enjoy true and spiritual happiness (R.V 1-72-2 and 8). Rig Veda 5-57-8 refers to the importance of harmonized divine, spiritual and material knowledge and proper education through an absolutely truthful and enlightened GURU (preceptor) for enjoying bliss and happiness. Guru should deal with his/her students without deceit and with pure and honest motive (R.V 5-65-4) and should be devoid of anger, greed, evils and malice (R.V 5-65-1 and 5-82-9). Guru who accepts any kind of donation/money from bribe takers/givers and other avarnas (non-divine people) who are THIEVES of society is a FAKE guru (R.V 1-42-3). Parents have to convince Guru that money being offered as donation to the Ashram cum School of Guru is their honestly earned money. Since with this money food is to be provided to students, any money taken from bribe takers/givers and other evil minded persons can spread some evil practices/poisonous thoughts amongst the students. Yajur Veda 6-8 Says "O, learned guru we request you to accept our honestly earned money, we offer thee". In the Vedas first and supreme Guru is formless and ineffable God (R.V. 5-82-9) as through His ansh (subtle immortal particle-soul) a-priori and transcendental knowledge is provided to us. Thus God is Omniscient and human soul is omniscient principle. The Vedic Guru is more like Vashishta of Ramayana, Dronacharya of Mahabharta, Socrates, Plato, Sankracharya, Einstein, Gandhi ji. More details about Vedic Guru, social ethics, Trivarga (sensate, ideational and idealistic value system), Vedic Universal Equality, Vedic Education system/seven streams of knowledge, governing structure, Vedic mosaic society, institution of marriage, Vedic social ethics etc can be found in Chapter 1 of Glimpses of Vedic Metaphysics. This book is available for on line . Search for the above book "Vedic Metaphysics". It is not a book on literature and has a few typo cum grammatical mistakes which may kindly be overlooked. (An effort is being made to update the book without these errors). Vedic Society has been explained there in as described in four Vedas. Relevant Veda mantras/riks/hymns have been quoted. Kindly render divine and noble service and forward this Vedic message to all seekers of Vedic knowledge and ensure that mushroom growth of fake gurus are eliminated for strengthening Vedic Sanatan Dharma. With kind regards, Your spiritual brother, P.K.Sabhlok -------- -Shree Hari-Namaste!Good Idea read the posts listed below I have read some of these myself!The general pattern of responses is that the Guru will come, if he is to come; your discretion, (I would add viewed through the desire for the Beloved) will guide you, council you. Beware of pay me and I will get you instant liberation, Gurus. There are a lot of ripoff merchants, around certainly in my country, worldwide I bet! If you have a burning desire for the Supreme Lord, look to Him, be prepared for the amazing happenings, sometimes the Guru will come, but you may not perceive him/her, but dear Sadhak please please use you Viveka, not your ego.I will tell you one other thing, be prepared for a lonely pilgrimage home to Him, it's in such loneness, you may hear The Beloved call! Whatever is right for you, will happen if you stay focused!Gitaji, 12:8. Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on Me alone; there upon thou shalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt about it!If you start to do that, do you think The Beloved would not provide you with all that you need to enfold you in His embrace?Om... Shanti...Mike (K). -------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Today's sadhak message says - Guru is not a man. Considering Guru as Man or Man as Guru is an offense. Guru is the "tattva" (Divine, Essence, Element). That Paramatma tattva (Essence, Divinity, Truth) present is Guru. Krishnam vande jagat Guru. Lord Krishna is the Guru of this World. Then why must you make a Guru? If he is the Guru of this entire World, then are you outside of the world? Consider Lord Krishna as Guru, and Gitaji as His supreme instructions, an extraordinary, divine message for us. You will not get such a Guru anywhere. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------ You remind me of the priest, who is stuck in a snow storm. He prays for God to help him. A passer by comes and asks if anyone needs help, and the priest says "no". After some more praying and even more snow, the priest is feeling cold, and he asks for God to help him, and a man on a horse stops by and asks if someone needed help. The priest says "no". After some more snow and lot more praying, one more person comes there, and the priest says again "no". When there is a sound from heaven, and God says, why are you praying, I sent 3 people your way to help you, and you drove them away !! You do not know in which form the Sadguru comes----by way of books, TV, or someone else's wisdom. Yes, my Guru did come to me. When you are ready, it will happen. But do not wait for that moment or person. Keep meditating, reading and helping others. It will happen. Durgesh Mankikar,MD I found this very interesting today's post. just like the title "mother" is generally for one who has a child. Until the child arrives, the woman is not called a mother, so similarly, when a sadhak is enlightened (liberated, attains salvation etc.) i.e. darkness is removed, the spiritual guide is thereafter be called a "Guru" (remover of darkness). That makes perfect sense. Bala GK Dandavat pranams to all in this forum..... (I am refraining from any indication of who I personally see as a sadguru, only because this is each and every person's individual choice....you cannot take my experience and perception of truth as your own. Also, my dear Sriram.S......you commented in your query below that the guru finds the disciple, and this makes your seach even toughter. This is a contradictory thought. If you accept that the guru is finding you, than truly, you accept that the search is no longer yours. It is by divine will..... You are all invited to attend a very beautiful gathering in the mountains of northern California, dates are June 9th through the 15th (2010), 14 bhakti-yoga festival hosted by Vaisnava community of Badger California (also renamed "New Braja Village") ......with kirtan, drama plays, prasad etc. You may contact the moderators if able to attend. Dandavat pranams..... Maha laksmi Dasi --------------------- Dear friend, do not seek guidance from any nigura Guru in this regard. One who never had a living Guru should not guide others in matter of Guru. Yet if someone guides others saying Guru is not required he himself becomes the Guru of the person guided by him. You please read Swami Vivekananda, Guru Tattwa by Swami Sivananda, Sant Gyaneshwar in his Jnanwshwari gita, Sri Gurugita, Guru Ashtakam of Sri Sankaracharya, Shwetashwatar Upanishad to get guidance. Any one who has never experienced the grace of a Guru can only misguide you however great scholar he might be. Dr.Premji ------- Dear Ones, Namaste!Dear Sriramji, if you say that Sadguru finds a disciple, then answer is easy. Just be a deserving disciple, that's all you can do and should do, if Sadguru were to find you! Sadguru knows True disciple, whereas disciple may not know Sadguru!From own experience I can tell you that He does find disciple! As I often say and feel strong to repeat it, it is Truth that invites one to discover Itself, because ego is not interested in Truth! Consider yourself lucky to be thinking about Sadguru! Actuall true Sadguru is Atma, your very SELF! Apparent Guru only points to that place!Keep heart and mind open, attend Satsangs, have like-minded friends, read scriptures, hear Truth more often! If someone's talk makes you happy, and your guts tells you "he/she" knows what you want to know, Trust those moments when your entire being says "Yes, Yes, Yes...." .Make Devotion and selfless service the part of your Life. Long for Truth!Soon Universe will conspire to send whatever is needed for you at the time it is needed! Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt ------ If you are destined to find a Sadguru, your yearning fror Sadguru will progressively intensify. Meanwhile, you yourself may become your Sadguru if God wants that way. God is ultimate Sadguru behind you. Trust Him always. Basudeb Sen ----- AUM He , who cannot even be heard of by many; whom many hearing , donot come to know; wonderous is He, who can teach(Him)and skilful is he, who finds(Him), and wonderous is he, who knows even when instructed by the Wise. Taught by an inferior man, He cannot be truly understood as He is thought of in many ways.Unless taught by one, who knows Him as himself, there is no going thither for it is inconceivable, being subtler than the subtle . Thus does the Katha Upanishad reveal to the seeker true (Ch, 1, Sec 2, Sh. 7 and 8 above) Only when a yearning , pining heart is enabled to recieve intelligence contained in the words directly from the Light contained within itself, the need of outer guide becomes redundant , only then ................ It is of that experience that Nanak sings , " Ananda bhaya meri maen Satguru maein paya" . Thereafter the role of the outer Guide , the Man of Realisation, the superior person is over. The Satguru, who was ever abiding in the heart cavity of the person, but whose voice could not be heard by the person till then, now takes over . The words of the scriptures , the wise men, the saints and the sages, now reveal their intelligence to the seeker directly.................. because The Light in the self is now awakened .........or, rather............ the Mind is now 'dead' , it has stopped eclipsing that Light . Therefore, dear Sadhaks, seek out the man of Realisation, pray to God to make him available ................. the guru that Katha Upanishad (above) speaks about, the Man of Realisation that the Bhagvada geetha speaks about in Ch 7, Sh 3 ..................... and trust God enough to feel that God shall not allow you to fall into the hands of a cheat posing as a guru. It is then that the words of Swami Ramsukhdasjee would need but one reading to become your understanding ' in action '. AUM narinder bhandari ----------------------- Hari OmSadhak Shriram ! Re_read your opening statements:QuoteOver the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. UnquoteDon't you agree that life 'taught you lessons' ? Human Life is your Guru ! You say you need Guru to 'deploy your intellect in right direction' !! Is it in wrong direction at present ? How do you know? Who knows this thing? It is proved that there is some element in yourself who knows ' my intellect is in wrong direction, needs to be in right direction' ! What is that element? That element is VIVEKA- discriminating between 'right direction' and 'wrong direction' ! That VIVEKA is your Guru. That is already sitting inside you ! Why then you are foolishly searching outside for Guru? Do you know, why? I will tell you ! Your mind is cheating you !! Your mind is suggesting ...I will remain like this, find out Sadguru ! Your VIVEKA says ..wrong, wrong direction !! Hence Trust your Viveka !! Did you have to search that element inside you which is suggesting ' There is need for deployment of putting intellect in right direction' ? You say - "The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher."I say- that makes your search not tougher but futile, foolish and totally unnecessary !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji says that it is virtually impossible for us to recognize a real Guru/Sadguru. You can only recognize that which is of lesser powers/greatness than yourself. You are absolutely right... No need to search! When the fruit is ripe, then the parrot himself finds it. When you become completely ready for your salvation, the God will immediately provide all the aids (including Guru if needed) for your salvation. But not if it is false crying. Maa knows when to stop all her work and attending to a crying child whose is in despair. But she ignores the false cries and continues doing her work. Let us do our part, and have an intense longing for Truth, for Salvation, for our Beloved, and leave the rest to God....... Meera Das. Ram Ram - Sadguru is a God realised person. In Hardwar for Kumbh lakhs of holy men have congregated but among them the real Gurus are only a handful. In this forum we are not allowed to mention any particular Guru however there are genuine ones and and many devotees have found solace from them. My personal feeling is that when the right time comes we do not have to go to the Guru. The Guru will come to you. Hari Shanker Deo -- AUM We have all intellectually understood the meaning of God, Light, and the Self being One; of Karma, Bhakti and Gyana ............... we all are choosing to share thoughts so that the Intellectual Knowledge gets transformed into our Being, into our own Experience, ..................... and then the dichotomy begins ................. instead of imbibing the understanding that frees us from all dichotomies, we begin to get caught up by new concepts and conditionings again ................... If we want the experience ............... We shall have to be on guard that our own concepts donot become so powerful that they become our 'mental positions' and we feel compelled to defend them .................... and then keep trying to fit the Truth or Reality into the parameters of the Concept . if God the all-pervading Light, and Unity of Life , one wishes to understand .... the first understanding must be of the word guru.................. and concepts and conditionings of mind that prevent us from de-eclipsing the Guru within us ........... Light is what we are .............. were and shall always be ............... so we are the guru ( gu-ru)............... but not aware of our own being are we ...........................aum so, to de-eclipse the Light within, there is a great need to understand that we shall have to become the Right Disciple .............. meaning that the yearning for Truth in us is so strong that our very desire for Truth enables us to absorb the Light from all around us ..............(Vivekachudamani spells out the qualifications of the sadhaka true Sh. 14-17. See also 33 to 42.) the pointers to guide us have been left by all the Knowers of Truth ............... but the Mind is uanable to interpret them correctly and walk the Path because of its own dichotomies ............. it is then that Prayer arises in the heart to God to send us a guru ....... and the prayer is always answered .............. we are enabled to recognise the Guru, who had been amidst us all the while, but we had been too busy to 'evaluate' the Guru, rather than see the Light emanating from him. AUM narinder bhandari ----- FROM PRIOR SADHAK MESSAGES: Sadhak message links on Guru are at :What is a True Spiritual Guide like?sadhaka/message/1161 Who can be a Guru? Part I & II sadhaka/message/2219 sadhaka/message/2220 Gita View of Guru - Part I & IIsadhaka/message/1129sadhaka/message/1130Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?sadhaka/message/1926 Can there be no liberation without a Guru? sadhaka/message/2039On Guru Disciple Relationshipsadhaka/message/1903On Guru - Sishyasadhaka/message/1105Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?sadhaka/message/1819Worship of Guru - Part 1sadhaka/message/1738Worship of Guru - Part 2sadhaka/message/1739God is Guru of this Universesadhaka/message/1661Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Gurusadhaka/message/1659Real Guru is your discrimination:sadhaka/message/1547There is no Sin in letting go of false Gurusadhaka/message/1484Who can be considered a Guru?sadhaka/message/1301Gita Talk discussion links are at:/message/1121 FROM PRIOR GITA TALK DISCUSIONS: Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ? /message/1844 Guru Worship related /message/1121 ============================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Namaskar, Over the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher. Can the learnt men in this group provide some light to my quest. Regards Sriram.S ------ Shree Hari Ram Ram Sriramji, Swamiji has written extensively on Guru. Please read the links provided, as they will be very beneficial to you. If doubts arise, please do not hesitate to ask any questions for further clarification. All sadhaks may also provide any further insights. please be BRIEF, RELEVANT AND RESPECTFUL. With Devotion, Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ----- NEW POSTING Dear Soul, Read Gitaji, Follow Gitaji. God Krishna will help you Himself. No need for any worldly Guru. Shri Krishnam Vande Jagatgurum. Mahesh Sharma----- Hari OmDr Premji ! To go to Guru with sacrificial faggots- if you believe in that, we have no issues. Try it. It is an individual choice. But what will you gain by that? Think over this aspect. There is no purpose served by picking one verse of Gita in isolation. Arjuna after hearing Gita did not rush to implement verse referred by you. Ultimately Self only helps Self. Why don't you scroll through all prior postings where this topic has been deliberated in detail and come with concrete views, rather than blaming any one for misguiding ? This Satsanga Forum has no reasons to mis guide any one. In fact those who advocate compulsion of finding Guru made of flesh and bones for Realisation only can be construed to be mis guiding the people and not those who say - Don't worry. Your Guru is living inside you. Trust in Krishna. Parrot will come automatically, when fruit is ripe. What kind of mis guiding can be here? What can be guidance be with the stand you are taking? Do not USE Scriptures to prove your mind's suggestions. Read them in toto. Use Shruti, Yukti and Anubhooti- all 3 principles and then take decision. Throw away mental insistences. Understand this topic in detail. Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ----- Shree Hari Ram Ram This particular point of Swamiji's really appealed to me, when I was in search of a Guru - Just like a Brahmin conducts the wedding ceremonies and thereafter the bride and bridegroom, become husband and wife, like one (lasting bond) for the rest of their lives. Thereafter the Brahmin is not remembered. The point is that it is a Guru's job to bring a spiritual aspirant face to face with God. After that the Guru's work is completed. It is not to bring the aspirant close to him and to develop a relation with him. Our main objective should also to develop a relation with God, not with the Guru. Meera Das, Ram Ram --- hey ram, the difference between Guru and sadGuru is purely imaginary. Guru, by definition is one who removes darkness/ignorance or Adnyaana from the seeker. A guru has got to be sat. Sadbhaava, saadhu bhaave sat etat prayuchyate, says krishna in Gita. The one who removes ignorance from our minds has got to be sat, no other way. hence, the addition of the adjective sat to guru is at best pleonastic. This is one of the counterfeits circulated by the modern day baabaas and svaamees. Dont beleive them. There are six factors which combie to take you to a guru or aachaarya. One of these is yadricchika sukritam. That is the totality of virtuous deeds one does without any intention of gaining anything incuding the so called Punya. The best way of finding a guru (who ned not be sad) is to make it your first nature to be of service to fellow beings. Importantly, remove the stigmatised belief that sadguru seeks the student. Read the Sloka "idam te naatapaskaaya .. " of Gita. Dnyaana Bodha, is not ad on your mobile to come on its own without your request or effort. There is a Telugu song (velugu needalu) Edee tanaMta taanai needariki raadu, SodhiMci saadhimcaali, adiye dheeragunam". if you understand it fine. It says nothing (worthwhile) comes to you on its own; you have to search and toil for it" Vasishta was the guru of Sri Rama. vaSishta did not go to rama and asked him to be his Sishya. Do you mean to say that vasishta was not Sad guru? Thank krishna samudrala ---- When god is found we call him guru.Guru is gunateetha(ie all above satva rajo tama).so adding sat to a guru may increase his great ness.Dear brother you will certainly get attracted by a powerful magnet soon.And which guru depends on samskara of earlier birth. Badri Narayana Miriyala ----- Dear Sadaks,Definition of Sat Guru, said in Sastras. Sat Guru- Does not have more than 3 cloths to wear, does not stay more than 3 days in one place, does not beg food more than 5 houses, only talks of Bhraman and enlightens people HE comes across, NO anger or selfishness or pomp and show can be seen. HE has NO dislikes and likes. For earnest seekers of spiritualism, God puts the seeker in tests and Sat Guru comes to seeker. For Durva Guru Naradh was in disguise as a Bhramin. The king Dasarath requested sage Viswamithra to stay an extra day in his kingdom after returning from Yagna with Sri Rama and Lakshmana.The sage said 3 days is over and he went to forest. Stay tuned in Namasankreethan, Guru you will get.B.Sathyanarayan. -------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Simple rule of thumb... if Guru has any interest whatsoever in KAAMINI (Women) and KANCHAN (Gold/Money) from you, he cannot be a REAL GURU. God has provided us with vivek and all the resources, now it is upto the sadhak himself to not be deluded. Meera Das, Ram Ram ---------- Dear All, Namaskar !The topic is well dealt so far by other sadaks! To summarize their views it is said:1. Sat-Guru is one's own self and there is no need to find it outside. That inner Sat-Guru is no other than your own Vivek (conscience).2. The rest of all other type of Gurus found outside your own self are of lower spirituality levels than your own inner Sat-Guru.3. I wish to only add that one need to first ascertain firmly with himself as to why at all and what for he needs a Guru! Depending on the purity and sincerity of thought with which one desires to have a Guru, the preset destiny is bound to change with that firm desire and the concerned would get the requisite Guru undoubtedly insted!4. Concluding, at the hightest level of reality illusive duality vanishes and Guru merges into Sehsh and the vice -verse! Namaskar once again! (Kuldeep Kumar Kaul) --------------------- Namaskar!Interesting quest? First and foremost is why we need a Guru. Our day to day principals in life should be very clear to us. Many shalokas and mediattion stages have been prescribed but there is no short cut medicine with Guru or elesewhere. If you read material like Mool Mantra of Jap ji than you encounter the real truth of life and the message therein is "Bey Sachhayara Hoi yeh.....and Hookam Razai chalana" We must increase our "Patrata" and you will keep finding indicators in your road which is also known as God's grace. Be true to your self and think universally, I can guarantee there is lesson in day to day life and that is your self Guru. You can read thousands of pages and discuss these things endlessely whole life, nothing changes unless we start noticing our own life and truth in it. Certain things we will be do while we dont want to and certain things keep happening without your control. You cannot copy anybody's life and experience though there are courses and discourses." Beekha baat adham ki, Na kehan ki na sunsn ki, Jo kehat so jannat nahi aur jo jaanat so kehat nahi' Experiment with your self with truth and guidance will prop up automatically. Hari OmR.K.Raina--- Hari Om, please do not misguide the people. If Krishna is the Jagatguru why does he instruct in Gita Tadvivviddhi pranipatena pariprashnena sewaya Upadekshyanti te gnanam gnaninah tattvadarshinah. " Know that, by prostrating yourself, by questions, and by service; the wise, those who have realized the Truth, will instruct you in that knowledge." (4/34 Gita) Scriptures should not be misinterpreted to suite personal view point. Upanishads are the authority on spiritual matters. Upanishad does not teach to accept any God like Krishna as the Guru. Mundak Upanishad teaches in the verse I-ii-12: "A Brahmana should resort to renunciation after examining the worlds acquired through karma, with the help of this maxim: `There is nothing (here) that is not the result of karma; so what is the need of (performing) karma ?' For knowing that Reality he should go, with sacrificial faggots in hand, only to a teacher versed in the Vedas and absorbed in Brahman." Shwetashwatar Upanishad teaches in the verse VI-23: "These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has supreme devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion to the spiritual teacher. They shine forth in that high-souled one only." Gita is a Smriti Grantha and Upanishads are Shrutis. Even if there is difference in Smriti and Shruti on any point, Shruti should be considered authentic. So I request you to be faithful to Truth and not to any person because Truth is greater than any person or even god.. I hope you will not propagate such misleading teachings. Dr.Premji ----------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Premji, regarding Gita 4/34 and need for precepter, Swamiji has explained these points. Swamiji only spoke based on what was already in the scriptures. In the exposition of knowledge (jnana), in the following verses, "pranipaatenpariprashshren sevayaa" (Gita 4:34) and "Aachaaryoupaasenam," (Gita 13:7) Gitahas talked about serving the teachers and worshipful reverence. Thesignificance of these Gita verses is that, in the path of knowledge (Jnanamarg), there is a greater tendency to develop arrogance, that "I am Brahma" (Iam that Supreme Reality). In order to alarm the spiritual aspirant, there isthe stipulation expressed or need for a realized spiritual master. However,even this is only necessary if the spiritual aspirant is lacking in intensequest or is of the deep belief that only through the instructions of a spiritualmaster, he can attain knowledge. But on having intense inner longing, anardent desire, the spiritual aspirant will not feel satisfied in any conditionwithout having attained the divine knowledge. He will not get stuck in anyreligious organization, and he will not consider any special qualities inhimself, causing him to become egoistical. Such a sincere spiritual seeker'squest will be fulfilled by God's divine grace. From "Saccha Guru Kaun Hai?" by Swami RamsukhdasjiHe has also said the following in Gita Prabodhani. This has been elaborated at great length in Sadhak Sanjivani. Here are excerpts from Gita Prabodhani - "Tadviddhi pranipaatena pariprasnena sevayaaUpadeksyanti te jnaanam jnaaninatattvadarsinah." (Gita 4:34)"Understand that essential knowledge, by going to a Self Realized, Great Soul.By your obeisance and humble reverence, by serving him and with a simplestraightforward heart questioning him, that great self-realized soul, willinstruct you, in (that) knowledge of Truth (jnana)." (Gita 4:34)Comments - After describing in detail the method of attaining the essentialKnowledge of Truth, then let us say, God is intending to express that simply bymaking someone a Guru, one cannot attain knowledge of Truth (jnana), and simplyby making someone a disciple the Guru's duties are not complete. When one goesto a realized, great Soul, prostrates at his feet (surrenders to him), does allactivities according to his instructions, and expresses one's keen quest andinquiry into the essential nature, then the Guru, will instruct the aspirant inthe essential knowledge of Truth, without engaging in a Guru-Disciple relation.From whomever this knowledge of truth is attained, it is essential that thatgreat Soul be realized and well-versed in the scriptures. If he is realized,but is not well-versed in the scriptures, then he will be unable tosatisfactorily respond and remove the doubts of the spiritual aspirant's intensequest for learning and knowledge of Truth. If he is well-versed in thescriptures, but is not a realized Soul, then his messages will not be solid,firm, and geniune and therefore it will not have any influence or effect on theaspirant towards attaining realization.Of the two, realized soul and one who is well-versed in scriptures, being arealized soul is more important. In a realized soul, the knowledge of thescriptures is attained automatically. It is only from the words and messages ofrealized great souls that these scriptures were compiled. Their words areautomatically and naturally in alignment with the scriptures.From "Gita Prabodhani" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji pg 118 Ram Ram ------- Dear Seekers of Vedic Knowledge, Subject Vedic GURU is a preceptor Guru word is from Gu- darkness and Ru- to dispel. According to Rig Veda a Guru is a dispeller of inner and outer darkness of his/her disciples. Vedic Gurus are normally Rudrai- having studied till the age of 36 years or Aditya i.e. having studied till the age of 44 to 48 years all Social, Physical, Military and Spiritual Sciences containing seven streams of knowledge. Vedic Guru renders the greatest service to God by spreading harmonized divine, spiritual and material knowledge (para Jnan) with honesty, straight forwardness, without deceit of any kind for all to enjoy true and spiritual happiness (R.V 1-72-2 and 8). Rig Veda 5-57-8 refers to the importance of harmonized divine, spiritual and material knowledge and proper education through an absolutely truthful and enlightened GURU (preceptor) for enjoying bliss and happiness. Guru should deal with his/her students without deceit and with pure and honest motive (R.V 5-65-4) and should be devoid of anger, greed, evils and malice (R.V 5-65-1 and 5-82-9). Guru who accepts any kind of donation/money from bribe takers/givers and other avarnas (non-divine people) who are THIEVES of society is a FAKE guru (R.V 1-42-3). Parents have to convince Guru that money being offered as donation to the Ashram cum School of Guru is their honestly earned money. Since with this money food is to be provided to students, any money taken from bribe takers/givers and other evil minded persons can spread some evil practices/poisonous thoughts amongst the students. Yajur Veda 6-8 Says "O, learned guru we request you to accept our honestly earned money, we offer thee". In the Vedas first and supreme Guru is formless and ineffable God (R.V. 5-82-9) as through His ansh (subtle immortal particle-soul) a-priori and transcendental knowledge is provided to us. Thus God is Omniscient and human soul is omniscient principle. The Vedic Guru is more like Vashishta of Ramayana, Dronacharya of Mahabharta, Socrates, Plato, Sankracharya, Einstein, Gandhi ji. More details about Vedic Guru, social ethics, Trivarga (sensate, ideational and idealistic value system), Vedic Universal Equality, Vedic Education system/seven streams of knowledge, governing structure, Vedic mosaic society, institution of marriage, Vedic social ethics etc can be found in Chapter 1 of Glimpses of Vedic Metaphysics. This book is available for on line . Search for the above book "Vedic Metaphysics". It is not a book on literature and has a few typo cum grammatical mistakes which may kindly be overlooked. (An effort is being made to update the book without these errors). Vedic Society has been explained there in as described in four Vedas. Relevant Veda mantras/riks/hymns have been quoted. Kindly render divine and noble service and forward this Vedic message to all seekers of Vedic knowledge and ensure that mushroom growth of fake gurus are eliminated for strengthening Vedic Sanatan Dharma. With kind regards, Your spiritual brother, P.K.Sabhlok -------- -Shree Hari-Namaste!Good Idea read the posts listed below I have read some of these myself!The general pattern of responses is that the Guru will come, if he is to come; your discretion, (I would add viewed through the desire for the Beloved) will guide you, council you. Beware of pay me and I will get you instant liberation, Gurus. There are a lot of ripoff merchants, around certainly in my country, worldwide I bet! If you have a burning desire for the Supreme Lord, look to Him, be prepared for the amazing happenings, sometimes the Guru will come, but you may not perceive him/her, but dear Sadhak please please use you Viveka, not your ego.I will tell you one other thing, be prepared for a lonely pilgrimage home to Him, it's in such loneness, you may hear The Beloved call! Whatever is right for you, will happen if you stay focused!Gitaji, 12:8. Fix thy mind on Me alone and fix thy intellect on Me alone; there upon thou shalt live in Me entirely. There is no doubt about it!If you start to do that, do you think The Beloved would not provide you with all that you need to enfold you in His embrace?Om... Shanti...Mike (K). -------- Shree Hari Ram Ram Today's sadhak message says - Guru is not a man. Considering Guru as Man or Man as Guru is an offense. Guru is the "tattva" (Divine, Essence, Element). That Paramatma tattva (Essence, Divinity, Truth) present is Guru. Krishnam vande jagat Guru. Lord Krishna is the Guru of this World. Then why must you make a Guru? If he is the Guru of this entire World, then are you outside of the world? Consider Lord Krishna as Guru, and Gitaji as His supreme instructions, an extraordinary, divine message for us. You will not get such a Guru anywhere. Meera Das, Ram Ram ------ You remind me of the priest, who is stuck in a snow storm. He prays for God to help him. A passer by comes and asks if anyone needs help, and the priest says "no". After some more praying and even more snow, the priest is feeling cold, and he asks for God to help him, and a man on a horse stops by and asks if someone needed help. The priest says "no". After some more snow and lot more praying, one more person comes there, and the priest says again "no". When there is a sound from heaven, and God says, why are you praying, I sent 3 people your way to help you, and you drove them away !! You do not know in which form the Sadguru comes----by way of books, TV, or someone else's wisdom. Yes, my Guru did come to me. When you are ready, it will happen. But do not wait for that moment or person. Keep meditating, reading and helping others. It will happen. Durgesh Mankikar,MD I found this very interesting today's post. just like the title "mother" is generally for one who has a child. Until the child arrives, the woman is not called a mother, so similarly, when a sadhak is enlightened (liberated, attains salvation etc.) i.e. darkness is removed, the spiritual guide is thereafter be called a "Guru" (remover of darkness). That makes perfect sense. Bala GK Dandavat pranams to all in this forum..... (I am refraining from any indication of who I personally see as a sadguru, only because this is each and every person's individual choice....you cannot take my experience and perception of truth as your own. Also, my dear Sriram.S......you commented in your query below that the guru finds the disciple, and this makes your seach even toughter. This is a contradictory thought. If you accept that the guru is finding you, than truly, you accept that the search is no longer yours. It is by divine will..... You are all invited to attend a very beautiful gathering in the mountains of northern California, dates are June 9th through the 15th (2010), 14 bhakti-yoga festival hosted by Vaisnava community of Badger California (also renamed "New Braja Village") ......with kirtan, drama plays, prasad etc. You may contact the moderators if able to attend. Dandavat pranams..... Maha laksmi Dasi --------------------- Dear friend, do not seek guidance from any nigura Guru in this regard. One who never had a living Guru should not guide others in matter of Guru. Yet if someone guides others saying Guru is not required he himself becomes the Guru of the person guided by him. You please read Swami Vivekananda, Guru Tattwa by Swami Sivananda, Sant Gyaneshwar in his Jnanwshwari gita, Sri Gurugita, Guru Ashtakam of Sri Sankaracharya, Shwetashwatar Upanishad to get guidance. Any one who has never experienced the grace of a Guru can only misguide you however great scholar he might be. Dr.Premji ------- Dear Ones, Namaste!Dear Sriramji, if you say that Sadguru finds a disciple, then answer is easy. Just be a deserving disciple, that's all you can do and should do, if Sadguru were to find you! Sadguru knows True disciple, whereas disciple may not know Sadguru!From own experience I can tell you that He does find disciple! As I often say and feel strong to repeat it, it is Truth that invites one to discover Itself, because ego is not interested in Truth! Consider yourself lucky to be thinking about Sadguru! Actuall true Sadguru is Atma, your very SELF! Apparent Guru only points to that place!Keep heart and mind open, attend Satsangs, have like-minded friends, read scriptures, hear Truth more often! If someone's talk makes you happy, and your guts tells you "he/she" knows what you want to know, Trust those moments when your entire being says "Yes, Yes, Yes...." .Make Devotion and selfless service the part of your Life. Long for Truth!Soon Universe will conspire to send whatever is needed for you at the time it is needed! Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt ------ If you are destined to find a Sadguru, your yearning fror Sadguru will progressively intensify. Meanwhile, you yourself may become your Sadguru if God wants that way. God is ultimate Sadguru behind you. Trust Him always. Basudeb Sen ----- AUM He , who cannot even be heard of by many; whom many hearing , donot come to know; wonderous is He, who can teach(Him)and skilful is he, who finds(Him), and wonderous is he, who knows even when instructed by the Wise. Taught by an inferior man, He cannot be truly understood as He is thought of in many ways.Unless taught by one, who knows Him as himself, there is no going thither for it is inconceivable, being subtler than the subtle . Thus does the Katha Upanishad reveal to the seeker true (Ch, 1, Sec 2, Sh. 7 and 8 above) Only when a yearning , pining heart is enabled to recieve intelligence contained in the words directly from the Light contained within itself, the need of outer guide becomes redundant , only then ................ It is of that experience that Nanak sings , " Ananda bhaya meri maen Satguru maein paya" . Thereafter the role of the outer Guide , the Man of Realisation, the superior person is over. The Satguru, who was ever abiding in the heart cavity of the person, but whose voice could not be heard by the person till then, now takes over . The words of the scriptures , the wise men, the saints and the sages, now reveal their intelligence to the seeker directly.................. because The Light in the self is now awakened .........or, rather............ the Mind is now 'dead' , it has stopped eclipsing that Light . Therefore, dear Sadhaks, seek out the man of Realisation, pray to God to make him available ................. the guru that Katha Upanishad (above) speaks about, the Man of Realisation that the Bhagvada geetha speaks about in Ch 7, Sh 3 ..................... and trust God enough to feel that God shall not allow you to fall into the hands of a cheat posing as a guru. It is then that the words of Swami Ramsukhdasjee would need but one reading to become your understanding ' in action '. AUM narinder bhandari ----------------------- Hari OmSadhak Shriram ! Re_read your opening statements:QuoteOver the years life has tried to teach me some important lessons. But many of them still remain unlearnt. For the last 1 year I am in search of a Sadguru who can help guide and deploy my intellect in the right direction. UnquoteDon't you agree that life 'taught you lessons' ? Human Life is your Guru ! You say you need Guru to 'deploy your intellect in right direction' !! Is it in wrong direction at present ? How do you know? Who knows this thing? It is proved that there is some element in yourself who knows ' my intellect is in wrong direction, needs to be in right direction' ! What is that element? That element is VIVEKA- discriminating between 'right direction' and 'wrong direction' ! That VIVEKA is your Guru. That is already sitting inside you ! Why then you are foolishly searching outside for Guru? Do you know, why? I will tell you ! Your mind is cheating you !! Your mind is suggesting ...I will remain like this, find out Sadguru ! Your VIVEKA says ..wrong, wrong direction !! Hence Trust your Viveka !! Did you have to search that element inside you which is suggesting ' There is need for deployment of putting intellect in right direction' ? You say - "The difference between a normal Guru and a Sadguru lies in the fact that a Sadguru finds a disciple. That makes my search even tougher."I say- that makes your search not tougher but futile, foolish and totally unnecessary !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji says that it is virtually impossible for us to recognize a real Guru/Sadguru. You can only recognize that which is of lesser powers/greatness than yourself. You are absolutely right... No need to search! When the fruit is ripe, then the parrot himself finds it. When you become completely ready for your salvation, the God will immediately provide all the aids (including Guru if needed) for your salvation. But not if it is false crying. Maa knows when to stop all her work and attending to a crying child whose is in despair. But she ignores the false cries and continues doing her work. Let us do our part, and have an intense longing for Truth, for Salvation, for our Beloved, and leave the rest to God....... Meera Das. Ram Ram - Sadguru is a God realised person. In Hardwar for Kumbh lakhs of holy men have congregated but among them the real Gurus are only a handful. In this forum we are not allowed to mention any particular Guru however there are genuine ones and and many devotees have found solace from them. My personal feeling is that when the right time comes we do not have to go to the Guru. The Guru will come to you. Hari Shanker Deo -- AUM We have all intellectually understood the meaning of God, Light, and the Self being One; of Karma, Bhakti and Gyana ............... we all are choosing to share thoughts so that the Intellectual Knowledge gets transformed into our Being, into our own Experience, ..................... and then the dichotomy begins ................. instead of imbibing the understanding that frees us from all dichotomies, we begin to get caught up by new concepts and conditionings again ................... If we want the experience ............... We shall have to be on guard that our own concepts donot become so powerful that they become our 'mental positions' and we feel compelled to defend them .................... and then keep trying to fit the Truth or Reality into the parameters of the Concept . if God the all-pervading Light, and Unity of Life , one wishes to understand .... the first understanding must be of the word guru.................. and concepts and conditionings of mind that prevent us from de-eclipsing the Guru within us ........... Light is what we are .............. were and shall always be ............... so we are the guru ( gu-ru)............... but not aware of our own being are we ...........................aum so, to de-eclipse the Light within, there is a great need to understand that we shall have to become the Right Disciple .............. meaning that the yearning for Truth in us is so strong that our very desire for Truth enables us to absorb the Light from all around us ..............(Vivekachudamani spells out the qualifications of the sadhaka true Sh. 14-17. See also 33 to 42.) the pointers to guide us have been left by all the Knowers of Truth ............... but the Mind is uanable to interpret them correctly and walk the Path because of its own dichotomies ............. it is then that Prayer arises in the heart to God to send us a guru ....... and the prayer is always answered .............. we are enabled to recognise the Guru, who had been amidst us all the while, but we had been too busy to 'evaluate' the Guru, rather than see the Light emanating from him. AUM narinder bhandari ----- FROM PRIOR SADHAK MESSAGES: Sadhak message links on Guru are at :What is a True Spiritual Guide like?sadhaka/message/1161 Who can be a Guru? Part I & II sadhaka/message/2219 sadhaka/message/2220 Gita View of Guru - Part I & IIsadhaka/message/1129sadhaka/message/1130Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?sadhaka/message/1926 Can there be no liberation without a Guru? sadhaka/message/2039On Guru Disciple Relationshipsadhaka/message/1903On Guru - Sishyasadhaka/message/1105Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?sadhaka/message/1819Worship of Guru - Part 1sadhaka/message/1738Worship of Guru - Part 2sadhaka/message/1739God is Guru of this Universesadhaka/message/1661Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Gurusadhaka/message/1659Real Guru is your discrimination:sadhaka/message/1547There is no Sin in letting go of false Gurusadhaka/message/1484Who can be considered a Guru?sadhaka/message/1301Gita Talk discussion links are at:/message/1121 FROM PRIOR GITA TALK DISCUSIONS: Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ? /message/1844 Guru Worship related /message/1121 ============================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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