HELP - Feeling Victimized in Later Years of Life

April 2, 2010

It is so easy to advise people to follow the divine wisdom enshrined in the Holy

Gita. But bad memories follow the victim like shadows and he feels cheated at

the fag end of his life.

However much you may deny material possessions and worldly pleasures and

luxuries of life but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity.

I am saying this in context of the instance in which someone who felt aggrieved

by the behaviour of his sons and wife who knows that ultimately she has to be

dependent on her sons in old age. Such a man feels utterly lonely in life and

becomes persona non-grata, a non-entity. I think you should kindly elaborate

your explanation with real life situations.

SURESH MAHESHWARI

-----------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Please read extensive information shared on this topic that is somewhat

pertinent to your situation. It is posted under:

Guidance Needed for Retirement and Sanyaas

/message/2114

Sadhak Message:

Solutions to disharmony in the family

sadhaka/message/1324

---------------

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Ram Ram

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April 3, 2010

It is so easy to advise people to follow the divine wisdom enshrined in the HolyGita. But bad memories follow the victim like shadows and he feels cheated atthe fag end of his life.However much you may deny material possessions and worldly pleasures andluxuries of life but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity.I am saying this in context of the instance in which someone who felt aggrievedby the behaviour of his sons and wife who knows that ultimately she has to bedependent on her sons in old age. Such a man feels utterly lonely in life andbecomes persona non-grata, a non-entity. I think you should kindly elaborateyour explanation with real life situations.SURESH MAHESHWARI-----------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a sadhaka. In later years we need help. Association with Satsang is very important. If we can associate with devotees and spend as much time as we want in devotional service, that helps ease our pain, grief or loneliness . Of course we need to take care of our health as well. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

As He comes closer He brings such situations along with Him so that we feel perplexed !

Let all of us pray for your kindself. Barin Chatterjee

-------------------

Dear Suresh ji,What a coincidence! Suresh and Suresh !I had received many helpful and practical responses from advanced Sadhaks, onthe same problem. Vyasji's suggestion has been helping me a lot.I have dropped the idea of retirement till natural superannuation materilisesafter 6 years.Till then, I have minimised my needs and dependence on material things. With myefforts I have not been able to eliminate 'mineness' (ego). This/Sanyas mayhappen on its own at the right moment with Lord's grace. Many of my problemshave disappeared. Wonderful things are happening on their own. The sameexperience was told by Shri Narinder Bhandari ji to me.Lord never forgets me, I may do occasionally.Kind regards,Suresh C Sharma

Yes, it is easy to advise people to follow the wisdom of Gita and it isindeed that Gita says that it is extremely difficult and almost impossibleto follow the preachings of Gita and attain Salvation. Gita says only asmall percentage of people every try seriously to follow the path of Yogataught in Gita and of them hardly a few succeeds to achive Salvation: mostpeople give up somewhere along the line. The feeling of being cheatedarises from ego and unsatisfied desire. That the heart is adament incraving for self-respect and dignity is also due to the existence of ego anddesire for respect and dignity. These are the impediments to proceed on thepath of Yoga to salvation and practice of Yoga is essentially to get rid ofall desires material or otherwise like self-respect or dignity. That is whatGita says. Who is son and who is parent: all such relationships that resultsin hearts craving for receiving or expecting some specific kind of behaviorfrom sons or others are relationships of illusion. Gita urges one to get outof this illusion and remove all expectations based on one's actions orrelationship.What do you do? Either you continue practising the principles of Gita or youdo not. Gita says the only way to get the pains of disappintment andsuffering is to (a) give up ego, (b) give up all desires and expectations,© practice equinimity (seeing God in everything including the enemy andthe worthless sons, and (d) submit completeltly to God where or not Hebrings any relief to you in the Worldly life. If I cannot do that, I have tofind out an alternative solution to my probles of disaapointment andsuffering. At an old age if it is poosible to get a suitable alternative,one can try that. and if that effort fails, one has to accept whateverhappens. There are two ways of accepting: one is to cry and repent and blamethe society and others and the second one is to submit all problems andsufferings to God as a small child does to the Mother and concentrate allthoughts on the worship of God. One has no other option. Whether Gita saysthis or not is immaterial. If one wishes to remain as a slave to theillusion or the cravings of the heart or widow's crying, God is not going tocomplain..Basudeb Sen-

Hari OmDear Sureshji ! There is a subtle complaint and helplessness in your message. At the outset let me state: The world is made like that only. Tu Jaane Mere Sang Beeti! Ek Ek Baar Sabhi Sang Beeti !! ( You think it has happened only with you - you only are sufferring. Fact is this is happening with every one- No exceptions) ! This world has been defined as DUKHALAYAM ! Here there are only pains and sorrows. So what then is there to worry or feel lonely about ?You were alone, you are alone and you can ONLY remain alone. Why don't you love your 'self' ? Why don't you derive satisfaction out of your 'self' ? What have you got to do with the world? Do your duty and get out of the flimsy feeling of the importance in your life of sons and wife. Their importance is merely from perspective of your duty towards them, NEVER from the perspective of their duty towards you. Problem here is not conduct of son or wife...problem is of expectation from son or wife. Problem is establishing 'me/mine' with son or wife. Cure that !!Main Mere Ki Jewadi , Gal Bandhyo Sansaar ! Daas Kabira Kyon Bandhe , Jaake Raam Adhaar !!With chain of 'me' and 'mine' hanging from neck ..the Jeeva is carrying world ( and sufferring) ! O Kabir ! Why there will be any bondage (sorrows) to that surrendered (daas) devotee, who has taken exclusive shelter of Raam (God) ? Sureshji ! Kaate Kanta Kaste Putram, Sansaaro Yav Teev Vichitram ! Kasya Tvam Kah Kutah Ayatah, Tattwah Aitadi Chintay Bhratah!!- Bhaj Govindam...Bhaj GovindamWhat wife? What Son? The world is very strange ! O Brother, who are you and from where you have come and what is your goal (where you have to go) ...think over this !!!Sir ! Here you have not come to feel pains of separation or pleasures of connection. Here everything is connected with you only to ultimately disconnect. Here you have come to repay your debts to these otherwise totally stranger creatures called wife, son, ..kith, kin...brother, sister...employer.. ! Do your duty towards them and get rid of them. Thank you very much...you came to me...here is my service to you... and forget them as a dream. Can you remain with them for ever? If you can't, why don't you adore God who was with you always, is with you always, will be with you always and there is no possibility of His not remaining with you always ? He is yours not these souls you are talking about. Like in a crowded fare they have met you to settle outstanding scores and will leave you, the moment contractual obligations are over. Why are you thinking so much about them? DO YOUR DUTY TOWARDS THEM without considering them to be MINE. Some Saints accumulated, deliberated...:Santaa mil salaa kari, divi jagat ne pooth ! Peecche dekha jaawata , to pahle hi baitho rooth !!...and decided to turn their backs to the world. (Their logic was) A thing which is to leave us tomorrow, why should not we leave it today ? Why to worry about alone-ness? You have come alone and MUST go alone. REMEMBER: If you have slightest of connection for these animals called wife, sons inside you...you will have to come back ! Do you want to come back into this non-sensical heartless stonelike...'dukhalayam' ? ..Punarapi jananam, punarapi maranam , punarapi janani jathare shayanam ( Again taking birth, again dying, again sleeping in the womb of mother...) Aihi sansaaram bahu dustaaram, paahi Murare, paahi Murare !! (This world is very complex...O Murare! Save me!! O Murare ! Save me) Cry before God when alone !! Say- Enough ! Enough !! O God, I am yours, You are mine...nothing else is mine !! Bhaj Govindam! Bhaj Govindam !! ( Adore Govida! Adore Govinda) !!! Nothing... Nothing is there in these sons and wives...zero ...big cipher ... shoonya !!! Do your duty what you can and what you should...Hey man !! Yours is ONLY God. Say fearlessly : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro Na Koi !!!Cry before God ! And thereafter give freedom to all around you !! Give 'khulli chhutti' to all. Do whatever you want to do Mr Son. Do whatever you want to do Mrs Wife !! I damn care !!! I have come to know now....ONLY GOD IS MINE....Doosaro Na Koi !!!Jaayo so pratipaalsi, Raamdass Govind !One who has sent me to this earth, will also take care of me !! What the hell you can help me ? Do whatever you wanna do !! You are free from my expectations. I now don't desire anything from you. Take whatever I have with me, if that helps ! Get lost, if that pleases you, remain if that pleases you !!! I will continue praying and wishing for your welfare. Mine is Girdhar Gopaal ! Doosaro Na Koi !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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I think that, in today's worldly cases- specially with our INDIAN society and sociology, self-reliance is and must be motto in our every aspect of our lives. How can we seek/hunger for a respect and dignity from even our very so-thought near and dears who themselves like beggars asking alms of and dependent on others for their self-maintenance, like happiness etc. !! Kishin Chandiramani

----------------------------

------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease read extensive information shared on this topic that is somewhatpertinent to your situation. It is posted under:Guidance Needed for Retirement and Sanyaas/message/2114Sadhak Message:Solutions to disharmony in the familysadhaka/message/1324---------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 4, 2010

It is so easy to advise people to follow the divine wisdom enshrined in the HolyGita. But bad memories follow the victim like shadows and he feels cheated atthe fag end of his life.However much you may deny material possessions and worldly pleasures andluxuries of life but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity.I am saying this in context of the instance in which someone who felt aggrievedby the behaviour of his sons and wife who knows that ultimately she has to bedependent on her sons in old age. Such a man feels utterly lonely in life andbecomes persona non-grata, a non-entity. I think you should kindly elaborateyour explanation with real life situations.SURESH MAHESHWARI-----------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhak,With due apologies, let me say that such thoughts come to us because we have notdeveloped total faith in Him. We have not surrendered fully to him and so weworry and fear about old age and death. He who has given life will providesustenance till the end. He is with us, but let us be with Him. At the materiallevel, the problem arises due to our expectations. We expect our children /grandchildren to take care of us in the old age, instead we as parents shouldjust do our duty to the best of our ability without in any manner worryingwhether children will take care or not. We are here on this planet to performour role assigned to us by the Lord and just let us do our best and leave toLord the rest. Yes, if we can't control our negative thoughts it would serve tobe a part of Satsang so that some positive vibes will pervade the body and mind.Hari OmShivkumar-----

Jai HanumanBrother Maheshwariji ! Oh Dear! There is REAL BLISS and PEACE in loneliness only. Then you have no DUTY. You can say : I AM NOT DOER :BG 2:55 - (You are) satisfied in the Self through the joy of the Self(And called person of stable intellect- equanimous) !BG 3:17 - He, however, who takes delight in the Self alone and is gratified with the Self, and is contented in the Self, has no DUTY.BG 6:5 - One should lift oneself by one's own Self...for one's own Self is one's friend ...!BG 6:20 - In that state Self looking at one's Self gets satisfied.BG 13:24 - Behold by your Self the SelfBG 15:11 - Experience Paramatma existing in your own SelfBG 10:15 - O Purushottam ! You know your Self by your Self only.Brihadaranyaka Upanishad: 4:4:23 - Sees Self in Self only4:4:6 - Gets to Brahma only by becoming BrahmaKenopanishad 2:4 - Immortality is achieved by Self only. By learning/education you get ability to remove darkness of ignorance only.Hence rejoice Dear Brother ! Do not regret being alone. Says Goswamiji Maharaj:Sur Nar Muni Sabkee Yeh Reeti, Swaarath Laabh Kare Sab Preeti !Everywhere there is one custom only , they be Demi Gods, Humans or Learned . Only for selfishness and profit they (world as a whole) love you.What is novel then if your better half and children also did that with you ?

O Brother ! That TREE whose seed is 'ahankar' , the insistence that 'This is mine' is broad roots, the ankur (sprouting) is thinking about worldly pleasures, wife/son/caste etc are leaves, accumulation are branches, disrespect is the flower, and durgati ( bad end result) is fruit ... O Brother... Cut that tree with strong dispassion ... ASANG SHASHTREN DRIDHEN CHHITWA - BG 15:3 !Throw away ruthlessly the 'mineness' with these sons, husbands, wives, ...and say fearlessly : MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL , DOOSARO NA KOI !!! Namaste JeeJee JeeShashikala -

Hari OmLoneliness in old age and looking back at life, at conduct of others makes the old age a burden. In old age : One MUST equip himself to like 'himself' ! By that time the world has already shown its true colours to you. You have known- Nothing is mine. Problem is -one co-relates this knowledge with reference to 'others' conduct' ! One learns this knowledge by disgust, sorrow, and disliking and starts pointing fingers at others. That does not let you "accept" ..."Nothing is mine. I have no relationship with any body." You take this knowledge with a pinch of salt. When you do so , you can't 'accept' it. You have merely 'learnt' it.If we just think: There is no relationship of mine with any body, because this world is made like that only, then you shall not find culprits of your choice. You shall see the world as a whole and shall not draw distinction between 'my relatives...wife/son' and 'others' ! In fact both are 'others' only vis-a-vis your 'self' . You shall observe/ discriminate the entire world including your own body as one side, and your 'self' as other side. You shall become EQUANIMOUS. Once you do that your vision shall become clearer, negativity shall vanish and 'acceptance' shall become easier.The discrimination (Viveka) will awaken and you shall proceed towards PEACE very fast. You shall gallop !Once you start thinking : Why to single out wife or children to be selfish/non-caring and 'not mine'? ..even this body is not mine...in fact 'Nothing is mine'...the pain and sorrow shall instantly vanish. Because then you will be able to appreciate that " you are not alone" ... All have same problem. You shall then be able to renounce easily "mineness" with all and that "all" would include body, wife, children too !!! There will be no pain then of disconnection. There will be no counting then of what you did to others (wife/children) and what others did to you. There will be no distinction between the 'others'. My wife / My sons...Others. There will be no 'haunting memories' coming back to you and shattering your peace. You shall realise - IT IS LIKE THAT ONLY !!!Your wife and children shall not then appear to you as 'exceptions' and that will take out the 'thorn' from your tender heart. That removes the sorrow from roots. Doosaro Na Koi - Nothing else is mine- means ALL including body EXCEPT Girdhar Gopal. Once you understand it this way: Where is fault of wife or sons ? All are 'others'...all are 'doosaras' ..all are not yours ...Mere to Girdhar Gopal .... Mine is ONLY God !!!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B ---------

Let us understand clearly.......When facing a situation or in a situation totally involved, everything looks difficult. Every advice may look not practical or absurd..... One is so involved/attached to situation at that time, it appears impossible to follow any advice... that is the truth... no advice can work at that time.....

but let us trust that age old divine wisdom/research/truth works wonders! and is very practical!.... in every sense of word..... It is the only way to achieve (call it true success/leadership) what we really want....

It empowers individuals to deal with any situation while remain peaceful, in joy.... It allows you to look at events as events only, not good or bad events. It changes one's reference points which leads to transformation..........detachment from most situations, seeing things from the right perspective....

There is a catch.....this knowledge and experience has to be learnt when you are in peace /growing (not while you are in a situation, totally involved)..... You have to prepare yourself in advance....like all other things in life.... we study 16 years or more for emplyoment purposes..... you definitely need a little time to understand the wisdom/truth....... but the results are guaranteed....

It is not really necessary to into specifics of the question(s)....... As you get aware and experience the wisdom/truth.......all these questions get answered or say dissolved without effort....

In fact, one feels stupid in not understanding and experiencing the wisdom earlier.....and missing large part of life where one could be in joy while doing everything with world as it is.......for no real gain!

Start with Trust and Patience and be thankful/grateful to everyone/everything including self ........

Best wishes....

Sushil Jain

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:50 AM, sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight wrote:

It is so easy to advise people to follow the divine wisdom enshrined in the Holy Gita.

But bad memories follow the victim like shadows and he feels cheated at the fag end of his life.However much you may deny material possessions and worldly pleasures and luxuries of life but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity. I am saying this in context of the instance in which someone who felt aggrieved by the behaviour of his sons and wife who knows that ultimately she has to be dependent on her sons in old age. Such a man feels utterly lonely in life and becomes persona non-grata, a non-entity. I think you should kindly elaborate your explanation with real life situations SURESH MAHESHWARI

-----

Dear Ones, Namaste!Sureshji, the way I see is:First, it is of utmost importance to see the fact that "feeling lonely" now is by thinking in NOW about the future - old age and its projected problems! Another point is to see the fact that loneliness is due to isolating oneself by constantly thinking - obsessive thinking about "yourself" only, like "what is going to happen to me, no one cares for me now, I did so much for everybody" etc etc ". This is self-pity, thoughts only, and nothing else! Such thoughts, as much as they happen to aggrieved person, have no value to makes us free from suffering in any age let alone old age! If you could see these as facts in your guts, not just intellectually, you will have taken a big leap forward to be free from suffering now and in alleged future!Psychological dependency is the problem! Physical dependency, particularly in old age, is aggravated only due to such "me-thinking", otherwise one can always obtain help from other friends, relatives, neighbors, help agencies, etc. This is because here God is taking care through them for such a person who has given up fears of old age. To ask for physical help is all right, and most people around you will step in. Just think as I sometimes do, how much worse can it get even if no one came to help?Lastly love your children regardless of their behavior toward you! Realize that your own expectations as the cause of misery and no one else is responsible for your suffering!My golden rule is "Others may be wrong, is their problem, but my problem is only to think they are wrong"! The nature of all problems is me-thoughts only!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Sadaks,The bad memories are very deep rooted as one spent life exclusively in that manner. Why one should get aggrieved? Pure attachments. Need not feel lonely. Spend time in Sat Sangh almost day in and day out in the ashram at kolli hills. See how you change. Mind need something to get hold off, either past or present. Feed the mind in divinity and seva. The past dispels. Like Sri Suresh Maheswari, so many changed. Men and woman has become Gopaas and Gopikas. One can see bliss in their face. All this when attached to Sat Sangh and mind tuned towards our parents (Sri Maha Vishnu and Sri Maha Lakshmi or Easwar and Easwari)B.Sathyanarayan

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Dear Sadhakas, Hare Krishna. This is in response to a question from a sadhaka. In later years we need help. Association with Satsang is very important. If we can associate with devotees and spend as much time as we want in devotional service, that helps ease our pain, grief or loneliness . Of course we need to take care of our health as well. Thank You. Hare Krishna. Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

As He comes closer He brings such situations along with Him so that we feel perplexed !

Let all of us pray for your kindself. Barin Chatterjee

-------------------

Dear Suresh ji,What a coincidence! Suresh and Suresh !I had received many helpful and practical responses from advanced Sadhaks, onthe same problem. Vyasji's suggestion has been helping me a lot.I have dropped the idea of retirement till natural superannuation materilisesafter 6 years.Till then, I have minimised my needs and dependence on material things. With myefforts I have not been able to eliminate 'mineness' (ego). This/Sanyas mayhappen on its own at the right moment with Lord's grace. Many of my problemshave disappeared. Wonderful things are happening on their own. The sameexperience was told by Shri Narinder Bhandari ji to me.Lord never forgets me, I may do occasionally.Kind regards,Suresh C Sharma

Yes, it is easy to advise people to follow the wisdom of Gita and it isindeed that Gita says that it is extremely difficult and almost impossibleto follow the preachings of Gita and attain Salvation. Gita says only asmall percentage of people every try seriously to follow the path of Yogataught in Gita and of them hardly a few succeeds to achive Salvation: mostpeople give up somewhere along the line. The feeling of being cheatedarises from ego and unsatisfied desire. That the heart is adament incraving for self-respect and dignity is also due to the existence of ego anddesire for respect and dignity. These are the impediments to proceed on thepath of Yoga to salvation and practice of Yoga is essentially to get rid ofall desires material or otherwise like self-respect or dignity. That is whatGita says. Who is son and who is parent: all such relationships that resultsin hearts craving for receiving or expecting some specific kind of behaviorfrom sons or others are relationships of illusion. Gita urges one to get outof this illusion and remove all expectations based on one's actions orrelationship.What do you do? Either you continue practising the principles of Gita or youdo not. Gita says the only way to get the pains of disappintment andsuffering is to (a) give up ego, (b) give up all desires and expectations,© practice equinimity (seeing God in everything including the enemy andthe worthless sons, and (d) submit completeltly to God where or not Hebrings any relief to you in the Worldly life. If I cannot do that, I have tofind out an alternative solution to my probles of disaapointment andsuffering. At an old age if it is poosible to get a suitable alternative,one can try that. and if that effort fails, one has to accept whateverhappens. There are two ways of accepting: one is to cry and repent and blamethe society and others and the second one is to submit all problems andsufferings to God as a small child does to the Mother and concentrate allthoughts on the worship of God. One has no other option. Whether Gita saysthis or not is immaterial. If one wishes to remain as a slave to theillusion or the cravings of the heart or widow's crying, God is not going tocomplain..Basudeb Sen-

Hari OmDear Sureshji ! There is a subtle complaint and helplessness in your message. At the outset let me state: The world is made like that only. Tu Jaane Mere Sang Beeti! Ek Ek Baar Sabhi Sang Beeti !! ( You think it has happened only with you - you only are sufferring. Fact is this is happening with every one- No exceptions) ! This world has been defined as DUKHALAYAM ! Here there are only pains and sorrows. So what then is there to worry or feel lonely about ?You were alone, you are alone and you can ONLY remain alone. Why don't you love your 'self' ? Why don't you derive satisfaction out of your 'self' ? What have you got to do with the world? Do your duty and get out of the flimsy feeling of the importance in your life of sons and wife. Their importance is merely from perspective of your duty towards them, NEVER from the perspective of their duty towards you. Problem here is not conduct of son or wife...problem is of expectation from son or wife. Problem is establishing 'me/mine' with son or wife. Cure that !!Main Mere Ki Jewadi , Gal Bandhyo Sansaar ! Daas Kabira Kyon Bandhe , Jaake Raam Adhaar !!With chain of 'me' and 'mine' hanging from neck ..the Jeeva is carrying world ( and sufferring) ! O Kabir ! Why there will be any bondage (sorrows) to that surrendered (daas) devotee, who has taken exclusive shelter of Raam (God) ? Sureshji ! Kaate Kanta Kaste Putram, Sansaaro Yav Teev Vichitram ! Kasya Tvam Kah Kutah Ayatah, Tattwah Aitadi Chintay Bhratah!!- Bhaj Govindam...Bhaj GovindamWhat wife? What Son? The world is very strange ! O Brother, who are you and from where you have come and what is your goal (where you have to go) ...think over this !!!Sir ! Here you have not come to feel pains of separation or pleasures of connection. Here everything is connected with you only to ultimately disconnect. Here you have come to repay your debts to these otherwise totally stranger creatures called wife, son, ..kith, kin...brother, sister...employer.. ! Do your duty towards them and get rid of them. Thank you very much...you came to me...here is my service to you... and forget them as a dream. Can you remain with them for ever? If you can't, why don't you adore God who was with you always, is with you always, will be with you always and there is no possibility of His not remaining with you always ? He is yours not these souls you are talking about. Like in a crowded fare they have met you to settle outstanding scores and will leave you, the moment contractual obligations are over. Why are you thinking so much about them? DO YOUR DUTY TOWARDS THEM without considering them to be MINE. Some Saints accumulated, deliberated...:Santaa mil salaa kari, divi jagat ne pooth ! Peecche dekha jaawata , to pahle hi baitho rooth !!...and decided to turn their backs to the world. (Their logic was) A thing which is to leave us tomorrow, why should not we leave it today ? Why to worry about alone-ness? You have come alone and MUST go alone. REMEMBER: If you have slightest of connection for these animals called wife, sons inside you...you will have to come back ! Do you want to come back into this non-sensical heartless stonelike...'dukhalayam' ? ..Punarapi jananam, punarapi maranam , punarapi janani jathare shayanam ( Again taking birth, again dying, again sleeping in the womb of mother...) Aihi sansaaram bahu dustaaram, paahi Murare, paahi Murare !! (This world is very complex...O Murare! Save me!! O Murare ! Save me) Cry before God when alone !! Say- Enough ! Enough !! O God, I am yours, You are mine...nothing else is mine !! Bhaj Govindam! Bhaj Govindam !! ( Adore Govida! Adore Govinda) !!! Nothing... Nothing is there in these sons and wives...zero ...big cipher ... shoonya !!! Do your duty what you can and what you should...Hey man !! Yours is ONLY God. Say fearlessly : Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro Na Koi !!!Cry before God ! And thereafter give freedom to all around you !! Give 'khulli chhutti' to all. Do whatever you want to do Mr Son. Do whatever you want to do Mrs Wife !! I damn care !!! I have come to know now....ONLY GOD IS MINE....Doosaro Na Koi !!!Jaayo so pratipaalsi, Raamdass Govind !One who has sent me to this earth, will also take care of me !! What the hell you can help me ? Do whatever you wanna do !! You are free from my expectations. I now don't desire anything from you. Take whatever I have with me, if that helps ! Get lost, if that pleases you, remain if that pleases you !!! I will continue praying and wishing for your welfare. Mine is Girdhar Gopaal ! Doosaro Na Koi !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

------------------

I think that, in today's worldly cases- specially with our INDIAN society and sociology, self-reliance is and must be motto in our every aspect of our lives. How can we seek/hunger for a respect and dignity from even our very so-thought near and dears who themselves like beggars asking alms of and dependent on others for their self-maintenance, like happiness etc. !! Kishin Chandiramani

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------------------Shree Hari Ram RamPlease read extensive information shared on this topic that is somewhatpertinent to your situation. It is posted under:Guidance Needed for Retirement and Sanyaas/message/2114Sadhak Message:Solutions to disharmony in the familysadhaka/message/1324---------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

April 5, 2010

It is so easy to advise people to follow the divine wisdom enshrined in the HolyGita. But bad memories follow the victim like shadows and he feels cheated atthe fag end of his life.However much you may deny material possessions and worldly pleasures andluxuries of life but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity.I am saying this in context of the instance in which someone who felt aggrievedby the behaviour of his sons and wife who knows that ultimately she has to bedependent on her sons in old age. Such a man feels utterly lonely in life andbecomes persona non-grata, a non-entity. I think you should kindly elaborateyour explanation with real life situations.SURESH MAHESHWARI-----------------

NEW POSTING

-Shree Hari-Namaste!Dear Suresh ji,Re '.....but the heart is adamant to crave for self-respect and dignity.'Swamiji snippets: If there is anything that you desire from the world, then you will have to experience suffering. To have desire for anything itself is poverty. He who desires something, has to definitely become dependent on someone or the other.Thus you do not need any ones approval for self respect. That is the sign of weakness, look to the Supreme. Re 'I think you should kindly elaborate your explanation with real life situations.'Thus I will, but first consider one more snippet!A gentleman is he who is engaged in the welfare of others. There is no inevitability about anything, so instead of worrying about the future, consider what you can do for the world.So I will elaborate, if you have a skill a talent, then offer it to the world as a service, given from the heart.Even if you think, "I have no particular skills", think again!Example when I retired I started teaching T'ai Chi, Chi Kung, offered it as a service not to make money! Not on the agenda!My main class is for senior citizens, middle age to........, there older people can meet pass information and offer support to each other.In that group of people, I have one lady who spent her working life as a casualty nurse, on retiring she now teaches handicapped children how to ride horses. Another lady use to council carers, before moving interstate to care for her ailing mother!Another inspired by the little meditation moment at the end of the class, has formed a group that meditate, regularly in the mornings.One of our students in her seventies started voluntary work in a religious op shop, where the poor can buy clothes , small items for the home,now she is going on a first aid course as she has been made manageress. So on and so on!Finally I would like to come to meditation, I was once invited to share my methods to the group. I have been trained by both the Tibetan Buddhist, and the Brahma Kumaris. Now Dear Suresh ji, I think what I have to offer will be of value. This method is fairly universal, but can be enormous as to its benefits, do not under estimate this, as I describe it, it will become clear as to where I am heading.Both my wife and I have put this method into practice and know that it works!!First sit in a mediative posture, adopt a classic meditation method that suites you, e.g . observe the breath, silent japa.... .When you are stilled , imagine there is a pool of divine healing love in the universe, you may consider it to be a globe of radiant blue light, Lord Krisna, Jesus, Buddha, Quan Yin, whatever is you desire.With each breath imagine you are drawing in that love and healing down through the crown, into your heart, on the out breath send that love from your heart to whoever you wish to heal, (If someone treats you badly, even hates you send that love all the same).Keep calm feel that Divine Love, keep breathing it and sending it.The Beloved sometimes with his sacred compassion will pour so much love into you, that it will over power you , make you breathless with love, keep breathing it keep sending it!!Om... Shanti...Mike (K).

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

This is a perfect time... to stop wandering around... fix on "ONLY ONE" who is the only one that is ours and here to stay. Everything else comes and goes...who ever or whatever is coming and going ..it is up to them..let them do whatever they please. RELEASE THEM ... CHHUTTI DE DO...in Swamiji's words. FREE THEM ALL ONCE AND FOR ALL....FREE them and in turn become FREE. So EASY !! Try it! See the magic...!!!

Meera Das, Ram Ram

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It is sad that in Kaliyug, one's own wife and children desert one when one becomes old and needs them the most. They forget that it is the Father who raised them and gave them every support financially as well as in other ways when they needed them. Now that the Father has become old and unable to fend for himself they look upon him as a burden. This is a catastrophic realisation and no matter what advice we give treachery by one's own can never be forgiven and is very painful emotionally. But then the Geeta advises to do your duty without expecting any reward in return. That is the only way to keep your sanity. One raises one's children because of love for one's own, not to gain anything in return. It is the mind which causes us to feel. Once your mind is strong, nothing can affect you. For that meditation is the only remedy. Once you connect with your Self you will gain an equilibrium

mentally which will make you impervious to the arrows of fate.

Hari Shanker Deo

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Self-respect … Dignity … self-victimization … Buddhibheda

I empathize your feelings completely. Winning over the virtues we nurture is far more formidable than vanquishing the vices we harbor. The vices are inherently rejected by the intellect a priori though the body and mind hanker on the same out of their inertia and ignorance. The fellow is at least intellectually aware of the need for such a rejection. On the other hand, the virtues are invariably nurtured to be ESSENTIAL for "good" life from the day one inculcated into the person starting from parents and through teachers, soceities, cultures and religions; and, reinforced by one's own experience as well. Yes, the virtues are essential for a good balanced life within an individual as well as amongst the environment one lives with. However, the virtues have a dangerous side effect - boosting one's ego with a superiority complex and an associated pride for having pursued a virtuous life all along. The individual driven ego boosting is boosted further by its environment as the later showers respect on the virtuous fellow because of the benefits it extracts from the virtuous behavior of the individual.

The correct way is to live out virtues without developing any affinity to the same. But, the ego being the ego taps the opportunity beyond its fathom when it observes the potency of its hegemony over the fellow beings through the so-called virtuous identity. Its eternally latent ambition to be ahead of its fellow beings consumes the fellow alive to maintain and promote the required behavior. The fellow strives hard to promote the identity; but, the environment being oblivious and aloof to the individual's agenda keeps throwing hurdles and threats to the same knowingly and unknowingly. The fellow being stressed with the urge for self-promotion and for social-acceptance breaks down to commit acts on contrary to the same and feels humiliated by the unforgiving environment. The fellow who is unforgiving to oneself to start with consumes oneself with rage and anger against oneself who remains oblivious to the environmental agenda as well as against the environment which is always oblivious to the individual agenda.

The expectation for the respect and dignity is the killer here. Unfortunately, the individual never realizes the dependence one has developed at core to derive the notion of the respect (virtuosity in other words) within continuously extracted from the respect from the environment through the social relations one lives with. The dependence on the notion of respect becomes the sole reason, purpose and basis for life to the individual without one's awareness of the same. The fellow nurtures an unforgiving attitude toward oneself for any lack of respect even for a moment because he/she would feel suffocated with the lack of respect as one would with the lack of air to breath. The emotional roots the individual grows in virtues for self-respect becomes as strong as the existential roots the body retains with the very breathing. The emotional roots often surpasses the existential roots consuming the very life in the event of a threat to the emotional roots. The virtues nurtured within can even turn suicidal turning the individual to seek existential termination when one foresees serious damage to the virtuous identity nurtured within.

Therefore, my dear friend, listen to Bhagavan Vyaasa … beware of the virtues as much as you are with vices … Na buddhibhedam janayet … never entertain ignorance … never develop ignorant dependence on the vices … never develop ignorant dependence on the virtues as well. Purge the vices for sure ... but, do not hoard and covet the virtues either. Noningestion of the virtues is as essential as vomting the vices to keep the stomach empty of all the aches within.

Truly you are independent of all ... truthfully be so ... do not let the virtues to mask that monolithic reality as much as you strive to block the vices from the same. Be viceless to be at peace within ... not to run away from the rest. At the same time, be virtuous to be happy within ... not to be entangled with the rest.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

(WE APPRECIATE SHORTER POSTINGS)... THANK YOU ! RAM RAM

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Behavior of children usually follows our own relationship with them from their childhood.

Sometimes, it stems from their immaturity, their "understanding" of their independence, or

it stems from their friends or from the attitude of their spouses. Many times, it changes back

to normal.

In India, we do not treat children as friends, and many times we do not even have a proper

normal rapport with them. Be that as it may, you are facing this dire situation, and I empathize

with you. But If you follow Vedanta, this is exactly where you should be, to fulfill the fruits of

your own karmas. So, take heart. Also with no worries about the children, you can follow what

your heart desires, in terms of Vedantic study, etc....

Yes, you will miss them and rapport with your grand children, if any. Whether your wife will

live with your children, or follow you in your next quest, is upto you and her. I wish you both well.

You will ultimately make new friends, and reach your own life's decisions. But that which was never yours, will not be yours and that which is, will not part from you.

Do not dwell in the past. Wish them well. Bless them.

All this is easy to say, but I do feel your pain,

d

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

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Dear Bhaktas,I recommend the services of the Satvatove Institute for people whofeel like they have been cheated. I believe it is facile to justtell people to perfect their sadhana. Feelings need to bediscussed and put in proper, sattvic perspective.

I highly recommend Satvatove for Vaishnavas or Hindus in general,or for anyone.Sincerely,Dr. Michael J. GressettUniversity of Florida

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