( Not): Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically

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Dear Swamy

 

Adiyen Dasan. Thank you for bringing this to our notice. You might recall my original email upon seeing the article in The Hindu. Since then i have been involved in various offline email debates and exchanges - some many senior bagavathas have teamed up and this is what they had to write about me (see below). They claim that because I refuse to read Prof Clooney's work I am worthless. While I normally do not post private messages in public forums, the debate has got personal and has left me very hurt. That it has to happen through Bagavathas of our own Sampradayam in these very groups is very difficult to digest for me. I will not name these Bagavathas - their line of argument until now is Prof. Clooney is beyond criticisms and I must read his book to be convinced of his genuinity.

 

Pls see what one of the Bagavatha has written about me!

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'The correspondent (that is Ramji) goes by an article in the Hindu and does not bother to know about Clooney. He admits that he has yet to read a lot in his sampradhayam and would not therefore study anything else. You may remember my description of people of this kind-They will not study what they think is their literature(not to speak about literature relating to their opposing sect) and would curse others for studying it. They do not want other religionists to spread their religion with zeal but will never spread theirs, in fact narrow down their following and take pride of their birth in their sect. xxx'----------------------

The bagavathas are very much part of these forums and I wonder how they will react to your new email. These emails have rattled me about the future of our sampradayam - hopefully this is just an aberration and a minority group of people

 

Adiyen Dasan

Thank you and regards

Ramji

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Vasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

Vasudevan VK <vasuchak Re: Re ( Not): Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , parakalamatham , , desikasampradaya , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal , "Krishna" <KrishnaCc: "Madhavakkannan V" <srivaishnavanMonday, August 17, 2009, 10:32 PM

 

 

 

 

This is an amazingly revealing article. I sincerely pray to Shriman Narayana that none of us is carried away by these sorts of gimmicks and foul play by the meanest of mean creatures. I request all of you as well to pray to the Lord of the Seven Hills and our own Swami Desika that they give us the right frame of mind to tackle these kind of so called human beings. Pray recite "Viluptha Moordhanya.. ." from Swami Desika's Hayagreeva Stotram daily so that no evil befall us or our future generations.Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Krishna <Krishna (AT) dsrc (DOT) co.in> wrote:

Krishna <Krishna (AT) dsrc (DOT) co.in>Re ( Not): Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, , acharya@ .com, nama-singapore, oppiliappan, parakalamatham, , desikasampradaya, bakthi-indonesia, andavan@ .com, Srisathyanarayanape rumal@ s.comCc: "Madhavakkannan V" <srivaishnavan@ >Monday, August 17, 2009, 3:47 PM

Clooney and Witzel evangelical missions in India: Notice on Oxford U. blogWearing a Vaishnava academic robe, he is on an evangelical missionunder Dominus Jesus (S.J) under the direction of Joseph Ratzinger, thepresent Pope. ...www.bestuniversitie s.info/ - Cached - Similar -Oxford Com http://bestuniversi ties.info/ oxford-comThu, 06 Aug 2009 07:00:08 +0000V SUNDARAM | Tue, 04 Aug, 2009 , 03:11 PM.I am shocked to note that Francis X Clooney S.J., a Roman Catholicpriest is going to give a talk on Vaishnavism at 11 a.m. today in theDepartment of Vaishnavism, Madras University.He is very much part of the recently organised waves of AryanEvangelical Invasionfrom America (inaugurated with massive AmericanState Funds by President Bush Jr!!) taking place in different parts ofIndia today. In

these very columns on 7 July, 2009 and 8 July, 2009, Ihad written about the Aryan Invasion of Michael Witzel, a Professorfrom Harvard University.Both Clooney and Witzel belong to the same category of shamelessagents of evangelisation  obverse and reverse of the same coin ofproselytizing Christianity. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), one of thefounders of the American State, andthe Third President of America (byno means a paganish Hindu like myself!!) had this to say about menlike Witzel and Clooney: ‘The Christian God is cruel, vindictive,capricious and unjust.’ James Madison (1751-1836), the FourthPresident of America said: ‘What has been Christianity’s fruits â€â€superstition, bigotry and persecution.’Francis Clooney can also be viewed in the Indian historical context asa successor ofSt Francis Xavier (1506-1552). Clooney really belongs tothe same

nefarious evangelical tradition of St Francis Xavier whoinaugurated the commercial business of violent ‘Evangelisation‘(Harvesting of Pagan Souls, like me, to be precise!!) inIndia in the16th century in Goa and other parts of South India, includingThirunelveli District. St Francis Xavier too, like this FrancisClooney today, belonged to the Society of Jesus (S.J). Francis Clooneyis a committed evangelist masquerading as an academic scholar in thefield of Vaishnavism! St Francis Xavier, Clooney’s predecessor in thesame field of evangelisation, believed in open violence, murder, arsonand looting. St Francis Xavier was not very different fromMahmud ofGazni in the 11th century or Mohammad Ghori in the 12th centuryorMalik Kafur in the 14th century in his bestial rapaciousness. Thatis why Sitaram Goel (1921-2003) in his ‘History of Hindu – ChristianEncounters (AD 304 to

1996’), described St Francis Xavier and his menas: ‘Pirates in Priests Clothing.’Nearly sixty years after the death of St Francis Xavier, Robert deNobili (1577-1656), a Jesuit came from Italy to Madurai, claiming as a‘Roma Brahmin’, donned ochre robes, learned Indian languages, forged‘Yasur Veda’, was tried by theEccelestical Court and finally died inChennai itself un-mourned and un-sung at that time. The CatholicChurch in Vatican today (particularly under the present Pope BenedictXVI, Joseph Ratzinger) earnestly believes that the heart of Hinduismcould be reached by perfecting the fraud pioneered by Robert de Nobiliin the 17th century in South India. Despicable men like Robert deNobili called their fraudulent approach to conversion as condescensio,a Latin term coined by the Church Fathers to mean ‘stooping toconquer’. They had drawn on the

example set by St Paul.Saint Francis Xavier 1506-1552 http://newstodaynet .com/images/stories/columns/ sharpshot/ 2009-images/ 0408-sun1. gifRobert de Nobili 1577-1656 http://newstodaynet .com/images/stories/columns/ sharpshot/ 2009-images/ 0408-sun2. gifFrancis X Clooney http://newstodaynet .com/images/ stories/columns/sharpshot/ 2009-images/ 0408-sun3. gifThe only problem which the missionaries faced in the 17th century inSouth India was the colour of their skins. In fact it was the colourof his skin which had betrayed Robert de Nobili in Madurai. Thedifficulty had to be overcome by the use of a suitable lotion. FrPoenco of the Madura Mission made an appeal in his Annual Letter for1651: ‘Among my

readers, there will be some who could procure for ussome lotion of ointment which could change the colour of our skin sothat just as we have changed our dress, language, food and customs, wemay also change our complexion and become like those around us, withwhom we live … It is not necessary that the colour should be verydark, the most suitable will be between black and red or tawny. ITWOULD NOT MATTER IF IT COULD NOT BE REMOVED WHEN ONCE APPLIED; WEWOULD WILLINGLY REMAIN ALL OUR LIVES ‘NEGROES’ OF JESUS CHRIST, FORTHE GREATER GLORY OF GOD.’ The colour problem of the skin waseventually overcome with the induction of native missionaries. Thisalso was an act of condescensio in the eyes of the White Masters.Our distinguished professors in the Department of Vaishnavism inMadras University ought to know that this evangelical fraud of ascholar alled Clooney belongs to the same

evangelical tradition of StFrancis Xavier and Robert de Nobili.What is very clear is that whilethe white colour was the chief hurdle to the Catholic missionaries inthe 17th century, it has become the most valuable asset / weapon fordubious scholars like Francis Clooney and Michael Witzel. White skinseems to be a powerful passport for dubious Western scholars, withconcealed evangelical intentions, making an academic infiltration intomany Indian Universities today!!!Who is Francis Clooney who tries to improve upon the record ofRamanuja and Vedantika Desika? A native of New York, Fr. Clooneyjoined the Society of Jesus in 1968 and was ordained in 1978. Hetaught theology at the Boston College from 1984 until he joinedHarvard in July this year. He has been a visiting professor at theUniversity of Chicago and the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeleyand Fellow at the Centre for Theological Inquiry at

Princeton, and wasAcademic Director, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies, at the OxfordUniversity in the United Kingdom during 2002-04. Fr Clooney held thepost of the Jesuits’ Coordinator for Inter-Religious Dialogue in theUS from 1998 to 2004. Francis X Clooney, S.J., a Roman Catholic priestand a member of the Society of Jesus (S.J) joined the Divinity Schoolin 2005. He was the first president of the International Society forHindu-Christian Studies and, from 1998 to 2004, was coordinator forinterreligious dialogue for the Jesuits of the United States.Francis Clooney’s primary areas of scholarship are theologicalcommentarial writings in the Sanskrit and Tamil traditions of HinduIndia, and the developing field of ‘comparative theology’, adiscipline marked by viciously planned attentiveness to the‘evangelical dynamics’ of theological learning deepened through

thestudy of traditions other than one’s own, for the sole mercenary (inother words missionary !!!) purpose of ‘maximum harvesting of maximumnumber pagan souls at minimum cost’.This fraudulent thieving process of evangelisation has been given thesacred name of ‘INCULTURATION’ by the Vatican Council II Documents.This has been officially defined as ‘The plan of Christians beingwithin the folds of culture, tradition and heritage of any people,posing as faithful devotees and declaring the ‘hidden Christ’ at theright moment, so that they (dubbed as heathens, infidels, unbelievers)become ‘Christians’. Till such time, they have to adapt and adopttheir culture and related customs, practices and manners. They evenbuild Temple-like Churches, use Hindu symbols and paraphernaliaextensively and the Christian priests roam as Hindu Sanyasis

andSadhus.’I requested Dr Kalyanaraman, an outstanding scholar and anacknowledged world authority on Saraswati Civilization to enlighten meabout the academic and spiritual credentials of Francis Clooney to sitin judgement on Ramanuja and Vedanta Desika which such authority. Hetold me:‘What cannot be hidden from international public view is that FrancisX Clooney, S.J., is a Roman Catholic priest and a member of theSociety of Jesus. He had a website when he was working in the BostonCollege; it showed him as an impostor wearing the robe of a Sanyasi.His role models are Francis Xavier andRoberto de Nobili. Wearing aVaishnava academic robe, he is on an evangelical mission under DominusJesus (S.J) under the direction of Joseph Ratzinger, the present Pope.Clooney himself has never repudiated this, nor has he repudiated thedoctrine of evangelisation inherent in the Dominus Jesus

(S.J). HISMISSION IS TO CONVERT FIVE TEMPLES INTO CHURCHES, MAKING FALSEHISTORICAL CLAIMS THAT SOME CHURCHES HAD ORIGINALLY EXISTED IN THEPRECINCTS OF THOSE FIVE HINDU VAISHNAVITE TEMPLES. After his lastvisit in 2005 and stay in Loyola College, an FM station had come up atthe College to promote DJ (evangelisation) . He also made, at thattime, some shocking/mischievou s comments about churches converted asHindu Vaishnava Mandirams at Srirangam, Kulithalai, Chidambaram,Aaduthurai, and Aavoor. He justified his mischievous comments wearingan ‘academic’ hat as ‘historian’. Francis Clooney tries to infiltrateinto the world of traditional Vaishnava scholarship in order to usetheir knowledge to promote evangelical activities by indulging inspurious comparative theology exercises. Some such exercises are thecomparison of Mary with Lakshmi; of Francis de Sales with VedantaDesikan;

of Christian God and Hindu God claiming that the theology ofsaranagati or prapatti was influenced by Christian love of God andsurrender. He has no ADHIKAARA to indulge inVAISHNAVA STUDIES andshould face excommunication for blasphemy by picturing Mary as agoddess and comparing her to Hindu divinities. Dominus Jesus (S.J) hasone mission: harvest Hindu souls. The Feuhrer of this evangelical gangis Joseph Ratzinger; the ‘Inculturation’ storm-troopers are led byClooney who instructs evangelists in seminaries in Chennai, Pune andJaipur.’Who gives unlimited political freedom to such evangelicalstorm-troopers as Fr Francis Clooney and Prof Michael Witzel to carryon their evangelical missions for the ‘harvesting of pagan souls’ inIndia? The answer is the Vatican’s Viceroy in India  The chairman ofthe UPA Coordination Council a known Catholic who owes

her openallegiance to the Pope in Rome and not to the letter and spirit of theIndian Constitution. Under the open political patronage of theevangelical UPA Government, ‘inculturation’ Vatican Council IIDocuments will always have precedence over all the Articles of theIndian Constitution. All the enlightened Hindus of India are convincedthat the UPA government is acting under the evangelical instructionsof Sonia Gandhi. In this dangerous situation India badly requires aSwami Vivekananda today to give a thundering wake up call to all thesleeping Hindus of India: ‘ARISE! AWAKE!! AND STOP NOT TILL THE GOALIS REACHED!!!’(The writer is a retired IAS officer)e-mail the writer at vsundaram@newstoday net.comhttp://newstodaynet .com/printer. php?id=18617- Madhavakkannan V

; ; acharya@ .com ; nama-singapore ; oppiliappan ; parakalamatham ; ; desikasampradaya ; bakthi-indonesia ; andavan@ .com ; Srisathyanarayanape rumal@ s.com Friday, August 14, 2009 8:51 AMInteresting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologicallyhttp://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm What does Vaishnavite

scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney. The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective. Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times

and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God. Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.â€So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to

introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:Tell us a little about your research. I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.What got you interested in

Srivaishnavism? It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it? I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic — scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and

understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively. Your future plans and interests… I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.Written word Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are: •

Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001), • Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005), • Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).