Nitya vastu

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Jayakrishna:

 

You are indeed right. I should have clarified this. The best

reference for this is BhAgavata II:10:12. There it says:

 

dravyam karma ca kAlashca svabhAvo jIva eva ca

yadanugrahataH santi na santi yadupekShayA

 

I looked into my notes on my discussions with Hon'ble BNK. He

says that we have to translate this as:

 

" Matter, Karma, Time, self-nature of the soul and the soul

(among other eternal things) are CO-ETERNAL with God, NOT

despite Him, but SOLELY by His Grace. "

 

In words, co-eternality is purely a temporal affair. It in no

way suggests co-potency or co-sovereignity. The Vedas too are

CO-ETERNAL only in this sense. The Lord is not its author. He

is merely its First RShI. At the commencement of every kalpa,

He enunciates the Vedas in the very same order. The Lord is,

one might say, just the periodic re-issuer of an eternal

edition of the Vedas.

 

Thanks for bringing this issue to focus and clarification.

 

Hari-vAyu smaraNa

B.N.Hebbar

[Guest guest]

> You are indeed right. I should have clarified this. The best

> reference for this is BhAgavata II:10:12. There it says:

>

> dravyam karma ca kAlashca svabhAvo jIva eva ca

> yadanugrahataH santi na santi yadupekShayA

>

> " Matter, Karma, Time, self-nature of the soul and the soul

> (among other eternal things) are CO-ETERNAL with God, NOT

> despite Him, but SOLELY by His Grace. "

>

...... Can you please elaborate on the translation please?

Which word in the verse indicates that we are talking about

eternality? I would interpret the above verse to simply mean " Matter, karma,

time, jIva svabhava(?) and jiva simply *exist* because of his grace and

would not, in the absence of same " . Why should one interpret 'santi' to mean

eternal existence?

Secondly, you have mentioned 'self-nature of the soul' and 'soul'?

How is they different from each other?

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Kadiri:

 

Tho' the BhAgavata II:10:12 does not speak of eternality per

se, it is to be understood as such in the light of the

statements both from the Shruti as well as the BhagavadgItA.

 

Shruti evidence:

 

nityonityAnAm cetanashcetanAnAm eko bahUnAm yo vidadhAti

kAmAn......(KaThopaniShad II:2:13 & ShvetAshvataropaniShad VI:13)

 

" The Eternal of eternals, the Conscious of the concious ones,

the One of many who grants their desires... "

 

GItA evidence:

 

na tvevA'ham jAtu nA'sam natvam ne'me janAdhipAH

na cai'va na bhaviShyAmaH sarve vayam ataH param (II:12)

 

" Never was there a time when I was not, nor thou, nor these

lords of men, nor will there be a time hereafter when we all

shall cease to be. "

 

Further Hon'ble Prof. B.N.K.Sharma (Ph.D., D.Litt.

DvaitavedAntarasajn~a) writes:

 

" Madhva is aware that creation as an event occurring at a

specific date in the past, at the fiat of the Deity, is open

to serious difficulties and inconsistencies. The awkward question

arises at once, as to what induced the Deity, which had

obviously kept in its shell all the time, to suddenly take it

into its head to come out and call a Universe into being.

The objections apply, in the first place, to CREATION

EX-NIHILO. BUT NO VEDANTIN s to such a view. The

hypothesis of creation IN TIME and the argument to the

existence of God from the supposed necessity of a prius to

the temporal series are definately ABANDONED by Madhva. "

(PHILOPSOPHY OF ShrI MADHVACARYA pp. 218-219)

 

" It is USELESS to deny that the Hindu Scriptures do teach the

existence of at least a few such eternal entities called

NityapadArthas or anAdinitya, which are conceived as EXISTING

FROM ETERNITY WITHOUT A BEGINNING OR AN END, SUCH AS TIME,

SPACE, MATTER, SOULS AND THE VEDAS. " (ibid. p. 226)

 

If we Hindus to the ex-nihilo (Latin for: out of

nothing) view of creation like Judasim, Christianity & Islam,

we will commit the same mistake as them and be equally

subject to the fallacy of reciprocal dependence.

 

2. There is no difference between jIva and jIvasvabhAva except

by virtue of " visheSha "

 

 

regards,

Hari-vAyu smaraNa

B.N.Hebbar