Guest guest Posted September 28, 1999 Report Share Posted September 28, 1999 Vasu Murthy wrote: > Guidelines for spiritual progress > > Spiritual importance of Ekadashi is explained by SrimadAcharya in > krishNamR^itamahArNava (Please look at postings by Shrisha Rao in Dvaita > list archives at www.dvaita.org). Health benefits of fasting are > explained in book ?Miracles of fasting by Dr. Bragg? available in health > stores or at www.bragg.com. You can also ask anybody who fasts on a > regular basis how clean their stomach and intestines feel after > fasting.). Vasu, I think we are fooling ourself if we use Bragg's or other similar reports to show benefits of fasting on ekAdashi. The key difference is that they are talking about " water-fasting " which will supposedly " flush " our digestive-tract. But ekAdashi is no-water-fasting. There is no point in misguiding others and ourselves this way by ignoring this key difference. The main benefits of ekAdashi fasting are self-control and pleasing Sri Hari, so lets leave it at that. As for the stomach and intestines feeling clean after ekAdashi, that is contrary to what I have experienced and also heard. Almost all mAdhavA-s that I have met complain of headace and nausea when fasting. For people whose metabolism is higher, the problem is worse, this includes me. I have to take extra antacid before fasting to reduce the problem. In other words, my digestive tract is more toxic after fasting than before. The claims of Bragg et. al. are very unscientific to say the least. He claims to have felt great energy after 19 days of fasting and says he ran down a hill after that. How many people in their right mind will believe such crap? Unless he is some great yogi, his claims are nothing short of miracles. I think we should stay away from it. regards, Manish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 Manish Tandon wrote: > Manish Tandon <matandon > Vasu, > > I think we are fooling ourself if we use Bragg's or other similar reports to > show benefits of fasting on ekAdashi. The key difference is that they are > talking about " water-fasting " which will supposedly " flush " our digestive-tract. > But ekAdashi is no-water-fasting. There is no point in misguiding others > and ourselves this way by ignoring this key difference. The main benefits of > ekAdashi fasting are self-control and pleasing Sri Hari, so lets leave it at > that. > Manish, I agree that we should concentrate on the spiritual benefits of ekAdashi. On the other hand, we can not ignore the health benefits. I have done fair amount of reading and research in this area. It is not just Dr. Bragg, but there are many other holistic experts both here and in India use fasting as a healing and cleansing tool. I have heard that sri vyasanakere prabhanjanacharya, a mAdhva scholar and upanyAsakara from Bangalore stresses the health benefits of ekadashi. Substantial literature and evidence exists. It is good to be skeptical. I guess the best way is to try for your self and see. Water fasts and juice fasts can be used as temporary steps to get down to complete fasting. It is not good for most people to go to a complete fast right at the beginning. > > As for the stomach and intestines feeling clean after ekAdashi, that is contrary > to what I have experienced and also heard. Almost all mAdhavA-s that I have > met complain of headace and nausea when fasting. For people whose metabolism > is higher, the problem is worse, this includes me. I have to take extra antacid > before fasting to reduce the problem. In other words, my digestive tract is > more toxic after fasting than before. The literature says that these kinds of initial reactions are due to reactions to toxins in the body. This is why slow transition to ekasdashi starting with fruits, juices, water and then complete fasting is good. These symptoms usually go away after few months. I heard from people have used yoga techniques like prANAyAma and meditation to reduce these symptoms. I also use these techniques and these have made it easier for me to do the fast. I still can not do a complete EkAdashi fast. I am still in the one or two fruit and milk stage. > The claims of Bragg et. al. are very > unscientific to say the least. He claims to have felt great energy after 19 days > of fasting and says he ran down a hill after that. How many people in their > right mind will believe such crap? Unless he is some great yogi, his claims are > nothing short of miracles. I think we should stay away from it. I have heard from one of the members of this list that his sister completed a complete 30 day fast in India couple of months ago during adhika mAsa and sri pEjavar swamiji gave her theertha prasada in the end. She did all day to day activities during those 30 days. She was experienced in fasting and these things should not be undertaken lightly. The point is that these are not miracles and regular people can do this with practice. > > > regards, > Manish > > Regards, Vasu -- ================================= Vasu Murthy Bell Atlantic Global Networks vmurthy ================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 Dear friends, Last few mails has opened up an interesting discussion about the benefits of doing Ekadashi. Sri Raghavendra Rachuri had asked about some references to Sri vyasanakere prabhanjanacharya. I like to highlight few points here. It's the grace of sri Hari we get which is more beneficial than any other reason. The Main purpose of Ekadashi vruta is : " Sri Hari preethyartham " " Do ekadashi vruta as a service to Lord sri Hari which invokes Sri Hari's Grace by which all other benefits follows " Dr. Prabhanjanacharya is a great Madhva scholar. During all his pravachanas he stresses doing Ekadasi by each and every one irrespective of caste . This can also be seen in his book Sadaachara vinodha which is a great work dealing with Ekadasi vrutha in detail and need for doing it and its benefits which helps for Iha-Para Sadhana i.e. both in this world by having a good health for doing our sadhana and also helps in sadh-gnana vruddhi which is the foremost goal of doing ekadasi. Here it should be noted that Srimadacharya himself is a great scientist and won't tell things which will be detriment to our health, he is a Sarvagnacharya who has written Thanthrasaara, & who has given us the krishnAmrutha MahArnava. With regard to the health aspect, Dr. Prabhanjanacharya mentions that it is good for health according to Ayurveda and Alopathy. Doing fasting for one day once in fortnight will improve one's health. There are evidences to show that many heart problems have been cured to some extent by fasting. He may not be a biologist but he is a practical thinker of today's scientific world and he should not be taken as an ordinary person, but an eminent Professor. He has written many book which are of high calibre. He has influenced thousands of people to do ekadashi vruta which is unbelievable in current times. Another main thing which he quotes is that Ekadasi is related to movements of chandra(moon). On Shukla Paksha Ekadasi moon enters earth's orbit from sun's orbit and on Krishna paksha ekadashi he enters back to sun's orbit from earth's orbit during his movement. " sA (Ekadashi) thu Shukla pakshE SuryamandalAt Chandramandalasya Nirgamaroopaikadasha kalAkriyArooPA. Krishna pakshE SuryaMandalE Chandramandalasya pravEsha roopA EkAdashakalA " . -(VAchaspathya) Chandra is Abhimani Devatha for Anna (AnnabhimAnI Chandrasthu) moon will not be so strong on these days because of change in his movement so the food which we take on this day is not good for our body. He gives one example for this context ,letter which we put in the post box on an holiday will stay in that post box itself there will be no clearance on that day similarly the food which we consume on that day will stay in our stomach because our digestive system will not be so active compared to other days leading to health problem. So by experience we can feel easy to do fasting on ekadasi compared to other days. So fasting is also healthy if it's done on the right day i.e.ekadasi. But one will find himself pure after a Nirjala UpavAsa on Ekadasi they can find it through their own experience though it may be difficult for some people to do it. In the service of lord Sri krishna, Sandhya Badarinath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 Vasu Murthy wrote: > Manish, > It is not just Dr. Bragg, but there are many other holistic experts both here and in > India use fasting as a healing and cleansing tool. like I said before, there cannot be any cleansing benefit from a no-water fast. The fact that some of us are not able to do a full fast on every ekAdashi and hence do a water/juice fast cannot be used as a shield in this regard. Ultimately we are all supposed to do a complete fast on ekAdashi-s and that does not help in cleansing because there is nothing to " flush " the system. Some unsubstantiated and unscientific opinions are not very useful either. Sri Vyasanakere Prabhanjanacharya is a mAdhva scholar but that does not automatically make him an expert in biology and medicine. Besides even the benefits of water-fasting like cleansing etc. can be easily derived by taking suppliments of various herbs like mint, ginger and triphala, *without* fasting. As far as the reactions like headace and nausea when fasting, they have more to do with the kind of lifestyle one has and not so much the toxins in the body. If you lead an active (sporting) life, fasting will always be difficult. > I have heard from one of the members of this list that his sister completed a > complete 30 day fast in India couple of months ago during adhika mAsa and sri > pEjavar swamiji gave her theertha prasada in the end. She did all day to day > activities during those 30 days. She was experienced in fasting and these things > should not be undertaken lightly. The point is that these are not miracles and > regular people can do this with practice. While a 4-5 day complete fast is possible with practice, a 30 day complete fast is not. It is a miracle. An average person will die within 8-10 days of a complete fast, someone experienced in fasting will survive 10-15 days but not while doing day to day activities. Mukund told me it is his sister who did this fast and I have no doubts about it but at the same time I am not willing to accept that she accomplished it without the special grace of Sri Hari and Vayu. I doubt if that is the case for Dr. Bragg. regards, Manish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 Namaskara, --- Manish Tandon <matandon wrote: Manish Tandon <matandon [snip] >Ultimately >we are all supposed to do a complete fast on ekAdashi->s and that does not >help in cleansing because there is nothing to " flush " >the system. This brings up an interesting question. Are you saying that cleansing the system is _only_ possible by " flushing " with water or something else? Also, is there any pramaNa if we say that " our system has the capability to cleanse itself provided you give it rest on ekAdashi " ? >Some unsubstantiated and unscientific opinions are >not very useful either. >Sri Vyasanakere Prabhanjanacharya is a mAdhva scholar >but that does not >automatically make him an expert in biology and >medicine. We cannot really put his opinions aside without knowing whether his explanations are scientific or not. I am interested in knowing Sri Prabhanjanacharya's opinions. Can someone give me some references? Also, we cannot assume that everything can be explained by today's medical science either. This is because ultimately even miracles, which cannot be explained by today's science are also scientific, are they not? Interestingly, in the vaamana puraaNa, Chaturmukha Brahma tells Narada Maharshi about dhyana snaana which says tad.h paada nakhajaaM gangaaM nipatanti svamuurdhani chintayet.h brahma randhreNa pravishanti svakaam tanuM Imagine that the holy river Ganga is oozing through the nails of His feet and is falling on the middle of the head of the meditator. Through the membrane of the head and astral tubes(Naadis) the holy water enters the body. tayaa samsxaalayet.h sarvaM antardeha gataM malaM tat.h xaNaad.h virajo mantri jaayate sphatikopamaH Think that this process washes all the impurities on account of Rajas & Tamas. By chanting this prayer, a person instantly becomes free from inner pollution and becomes as clear as a crystal. antarbahishcha suddhyarthaM maanasaM snaanamaacharet.h idaM snaanaM varaM mantraat.h sahasraguNamuttamam.h || For purity, both external and internal, one has to observe meditative bathing. Since it is mantra sanana, it is thousand times better than any other form of bathing. [end quote] Interestingly the above cleaning is achieved without physcially flushing in a modern scientific way. So, can we not say that the cleansing acieved on observing nirjala Ekadashi is actually washing off all impurities on account of Rajas and Tamas, thus making the body pure? regards, raghav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 1999 Report Share Posted September 29, 1999 Raghavendra Rachuri wrote: > > This brings up an interesting question. Are you > saying that cleansing the system is _only_ possible by > " flushing " with water or something else? Also, is > there any pramaNa if we say that " our system has the > capability to cleanse itself provided you give it rest > on ekAdashi " ? Quick cleaning (as in one day fast for ekAdashi) can only happen if there is something like water to flush you digestive tract without itself adding more toxins. Science also says that our body does rejects toxins regularly. With a long fast, when toxins are being rejected without adding new ones the body will be cleansed but without any clear medium like water it will take a very long time. You may not live such a cleansing... a dead body without toxins is not very useful :-) > We cannot really put his opinions aside without > knowing whether his explanations are scientific or > not. I am interested in knowing Sri > Prabhanjanacharya's opinions. Can someone give me some > references? Also, we cannot assume that everything can > be explained by today's medical science either. This > is because ultimately even miracles, which cannot be > explained by today's science are also scientific, are > they not? Depends upon what kind of miracles are we talking about. Things like sprouting a dry seed on the palm and then making it instantly grow into a full-sized fruit-bearing tree by chanting a mantra will always remain miracles from the point of view of physical sciences. Also, no rational person will say that today's scientists or doctors know everything about our body. But there are some basic things like you need energy to maintain essential body functions like blood circulation, breathing, etc. This energy comes from the food we eat and when we fast it comes from the stuff (mostly fat) stored in the body along the walls of intestine etc. If someone presents a quote from a shAstra that says when fasting on a certain day, you get the energy from air, I will have to say that it is a miracle because air does not normally contain any fat, carbohydrates or protien. Theoratically one can say for the sake of arguing in support of such a direct interpretation of the shloka that you may be getting that energy via fission or fusion of a few atoms or by altogether converting some of that air into energy (as E=mc^2) making it look scientific but that's not very meaningful. Our body is not a nuclear reactor, at least not for us normal human beings. Remember Srimad Acharya has said " na cha anubhavavirodhe Agamasya prAmANyam " . > Interestingly the above cleaning is achieved without > physcially flushing in a modern scientific way. So, > can we not say that the cleansing acieved on observing > nirjala Ekadashi is actually washing off all > impurities on account of Rajas and Tamas, thus making > the body pure? We have to look a bit carefully at these things. rajas and tamas impurities affect both mind and body and sometimes in diff ways. Take the example of garlic, it is tamasic and will impure you mind and bring bad thoughts but at the same time, in moderate quantity, if will kill some of the germs without any side-effects like antibiotics, in other words clean the body. Now the mind is completly out of the domain of science but the body is not. Sattvik activities including fasting (even if its not nirjala) helps in cleaning the mind because we are forced to put our mind in a diff direction. The body however may or may not benefit from these activities. So in case of chanting these mantra-s while bathing, the cleaning of the body can only be explained as 1. happens instantly by the grace of Lord or 2. happens indirectly over a longer period, first the mind is cleaned which eventually leads to sattvik activities and thus cleanses the body. #1 is a miracle for science, #2 is not. regards, Manish > regards, > raghav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 1999 Report Share Posted October 1, 1999 Manish Tandon <matandon Wednesday, September 29, 1999 5:30 PM > Depends upon what kind of miracles are we talking about. Things like > sprouting a dry seed on the palm and then making it instantly grow into > a full-sized fruit-bearing tree by chanting a mantra will always remain > miracles from the point of view of physical sciences. > > Also, no rational person will say that today's scientists or doctors know > everything about our body. But there are some basic things like you need > energy to maintain essential body functions like blood circulation, breathing, > etc. This energy comes from the food we eat and when we fast it comes > from the stuff (mostly fat) stored in the body along the walls of intestine > etc. If someone presents a quote from a shAstra that says when fasting on > a certain day, you get the energy from air, I will have to say that it is a > miracle > because air does not normally contain any fat, carbohydrates or protien. > Theoratically one can say for the sake of arguing in support of such a > direct interpretation of the shloka that you may be getting that energy > via fission or fusion of a few atoms or by altogether converting some of > that air into energy (as E=mc^2) making it look scientific but that's not > very meaningful. Our body is not a nuclear reactor, at least not for us > normal human beings. Remember Srimad Acharya has said " na cha > anubhavavirodhe Agamasya prAmANyam " . Of course " anubhava " or experience is the ultimate thing, but not science. The grass eaten by cows is transformed into a lot more complete food (milk). Many plants yield fruits and protein food like lentils by utilizing soil , water, air and sunlight. This is all our experience and if someone tries to explain this scientifically, one can deny all that saying that it is not meaningful explanation. Same way, every thing can not be explained scientifically. Also are we talking about one day fasting or many day fasting ? Even in the case of one day fasting, the capacity, reactions and experience are all very individualistic and can never be generalized. Some people with or without sedentary habits, married or single be fasting on ekadashi days for several years and still have problems, discomfort etc. where as some with very active (sporting) life may do it the regular way (one meal on dashami and dwadashi and " nirjala " on ekadashi). It may be difficult, but not impossible. Regards, Keshava Rao > regards, > Manish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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